Episode #80 Anniversary Special AKA The Great Recredititation

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Thankfully not everything works the same day.

(00:30):
Oh, here we go now.
It's time for celebration.
Right.
A momentous occasion of jubilation.
You have tuned in to a very, very special episode of the What You've Been Watching

(00:50):
podcast.
I am your host, the marvelous Mike Dudley, joined as always by my co-host, cohort and
youngest brother.
M.D.3, Marcus Dudley, checking in on the Y.O.U.
What is going on out there in podcast land?
We are broadcasting live from the Lake Jackson Studios of the What You've Been Watching

(01:11):
fleet right here in Tallahassee, Florida, you know, in the depths of it, how we do down
here in the grime and the dirt right here in the old gun shine state.
There you go.
How are you today, my brother?
I am so good.
Coming off of a fresh, fresh new year, fresh new look.
Always feeling optimistic and I can't wait to piss all that optimism away, quite frankly.

(01:32):
That's right.
Jim will be crowded for this next couple months and then they'll taper off and, you know,
people will invest in things and their newly found enthusiasm of starting the new year.
And here's the little trick of the trade, people.
You don't need a calendar to start new habits.
That's right.
It's just, you know, you want to start something, you just start tomorrow.

(01:53):
There you go.
I'm going to start today because, you know, kick that candlestick a little bit down the
road, trying to win all the awards.
Geez.
Yeah.
Anyways, big shout out.
I'm going to stop sniffing glue.
That's my big...
You sniff it?
Or do you huff it?
What's the difference?
Well, liquid up the nostril would be challenging.
Oh, well, maybe I'm doing that wrong.
Yeah.
Get a brown bag, buddy.

(02:14):
Okay.
That's my only advice I'll give you.
Got to mention it was Elmer's glue.
Oh, there you go.
I might be also what you're doing wrong.
It's like, I'm not getting the desired effect.
Anyways, he's like, that's a cray on first one.
Anyways, shout out to Ketza for our lovely intro music, Always Bright.
Yes.
Been holding it down as the intro theme for, we're going, we're starting our fourth year

(02:34):
now.
That's right.
So three years strong?
Three years strong now.
Yeah, man.
That's wild stuff.
Fuck yeah, dude.
Fuck yeah.
We appreciate it as always.
Well, let's finish giving our plugs first.
But yeah, Ketza, Always Bright, what else we got?
Who else?
We need to shout out to after all these years.
Oh my gosh.
I mean, all the legions.
I mean, thank you.
Thank you.

(02:55):
Thank you for joining us on this anniversary special.
I mean, everybody who's been there from day one, you know, Louis, Dustin, I mean, cousin
Dev, cousin Angie, Angie.
Yeah, yeah.
Liz.
Liz, Liz.
I mean, she came in later, but she caught up, you know, she made do.
She's a loyal listener.
Yeah, I know Ashley's been holding it down for a while.

(03:15):
The God's father himself has been holding it down for a long while.
Shout out to Forgotten Block.
We see you out there.
Hopefully we're coming through your stereo system right now when you're at Butcher Block
Shop.
That's right.
A pop-a-pop-a-paw.
Big Glenn Bryce.
Got a big shout out.
Much love to him for all the inspirations and shitty movie nights that we got to talk
about.
Middle Dutties for holding us down in the tournament bracket.

(03:36):
Oh, that's right.
And for the beautiful art.
That's right.
MK Dudley Art.
Shout out to our guy.
Also, if you're looking for a tattoo in the Tallahassee area, find my dude.
Find my dude.
Found Middle Dutties.
Put some trouble in it.
That's my word.
Shout out to Father X for holding us down on the brackets as well.
Yeah, for the initial funding there of, yeah.
Yeah, he's done it.

(03:57):
Initial investor.
Yeah, he is.
He's playing on getting your money back as soon as we are profitable.
We are profitable.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, we'll cross those bridges.
But seriously though, shout out, oh, how can I forget?
The guy who gets the shout out every week, who provides alternative flavors, the official
soundtrack outside of Petsen.
You talking about that dude?
You talking about Mr. Quadruple Threat himself or Mr. A1?

(04:19):
Look, we're dead serious.
I'm talking, I've said it a million times into this microphone.
I'm gonna say it a million more.
If you need custom music for whatever it is you got going on, if you need elevator music
that you need for your own personal house or whatever like that, my man has got you.
You can find him.
His name is Mr. A1.
Shout out to him.
You can find him at a1reality.musicatgmail.com.

(04:42):
I'm telling you.
What you're looking for and just sit back and eagerly and shiver with anticipation as
your inbox gets hit with some new flavors.
So shout out to Mr. A1, Mr. Quadruple Threat.
The man sings, he raps, he dances.
Sometimes he does beats while he dances.
So I'm just gonna shoehorn those into one so we can get our fourth one.

(05:02):
Who else does he do, my brother?
I heard he was one hell of a haberdasher.
That's a hat making for those.
That's right.
And various hat accoutrements.
Yeah.
A possible cobbler.
And I mean, he makes a mean cobbler.
It's a peach cobbler.
So yeah, shout out to that, man.
I think, man, if you want to find us though, you already know, write us in at whatcha been

(05:25):
watching podcast at gmail.com.
I will never not enunciate when we say that.
Where else can they find us, my brother?
You can find us online at facebook.com slash Dudley Bro's podcast or on Instagram at whatcha
been watching or, you know, we out here in them streets.
I was knocking over Salvation Army ringers for petty cash.

(05:46):
Break yourself yo change in yo QR codes.
Give me a shit blind man.
That's right.
I was starting a tadpole farm.
Tadpole farm.
I set them free once they're frogs.
Oh, yeah.
Just strictly interested in the tadpoles then.
Mm hmm.
Okay.
It's hard to get it repopulated.
I gotta steal tadpole eggs from other places.
Thus defeating the purpose.
But we'll find a way to make this profitable one day.

(06:08):
Oh man, so on that note, before we just dive into the million dollar question, the reason
why people tune in, we're going to keep this first off nice and breezy.
If you got something in front of you, if you're at work and you got yourself some hydration
of any kind, if you're sitting around the house with your bottle of, and I'm going
to do what I hate when white people say some vino.
I don't know why I bother to be one white people do it.

(06:28):
They think to me a slick.
If you got some wine, if you got anything in front of you, raise it up to you yourself.
Mad dog 2020.
That's right.
That's right.
Some of those wide mouth Mickey's.
That's right.
Whatever you got, raise it up to you yourself, the Legion for listening and making this all
possible.
Man, this has been quite the journey.
And so we're going to keep coming at you.
I know we say it all the time.

(06:49):
We really are trying to make some changes and find some ways to get to new platforms,
new mediums, be more invested in you, the community.
And really y'all make this whole thing possible.
It's evolution, baby.
And it's slow, but we get in there.
We making steps.
We just now learned how to walk on land for real.
Like the schedule is trying sometimes just to get on here.

(07:13):
But I mean, it's, I've never once recorded and at the end being like, man, I'm, that
was a waste of time.
No, never once.
No, no, no.
But also I'm the type of guy, like I've said, and this is just behind the curtains, you
know, we're just talking a little, little anniversary episode special.
Man, there are some days where I could have the most relaxing thing in the world.
And it could be like, you could have a two massages and a head scalp rub between three

(07:37):
30 and six.
And at like three o'clock 30 minutes before I'm supposed to be there, I'm gonna be like,
man, fuck, it's something else to do on the schedule.
But I will say every time I do sit down and do this podcast, I'm so grateful I get to
do it.
And I'm very grateful I get to do it with you, my brother.
As am I, sir, right back at you, sir.
It's, it's, it's interesting.

(07:58):
The origin of this thing started from, you know, both of us being in a really dark place
and not really knowing what to do about it.
So, you know, all we would do is just call each other, you know, once a week and be like,
Hey, man, what you been watching?
Tell me what tell me what's good.
Tell me, tell me what's on TV, you know, and we would just bullshit and basically just
do the thing that we do now.
But in our quiet time or our private time.

(08:20):
So I don't know.
I really do thank you for being the one to take the leap and just, you know, force me
to get it out there because I'm such a not perfectionist, but like, I got to make sure
all the angles are right.
I got to make sure, you know, everything matches up before I make a leap like that.
And you'll scrutinize it or a little over.

(08:40):
Sure, sure, sure.
Overthinking, whatever.
And so yeah, man.
And then one day you were just like, dude, let's just put it out.
And if it's shit, it's shit and we can only get better.
And I was like, I don't want to do that.
And you were like, then we're never going to do the podcast.
So either put it out there or let's not.
Let's just stop talking about doing it and do the thing.
So thank you for pushing me off the ledge and make me jump.

(09:02):
It's been my pleasure and shout out surprisingly enough to my, my therapist back in Maryland,
Susan.
Thank you very much, Mrs.
And you were very adamant about started, started podcast with your brother, started
podcast with your brother, started podcast with your brother.
Because like, you know, I mean, whatever, I'm not going to tell you the whole story of
all the things that were said in that room.
But I was like, I can't do it.
You know, we're too far away.

(09:23):
And she's like, you get a digital camera.
Like she was not taking it for an excuse.
So she was actually somebody I called just to be like, Hey, by the way, and she was like,
so thrilled.
Nice.
I finally took the leap.
But yeah, the, I've told some of the origins before.
If you really want to know the full story, just write us in at what you've been watching
podcast at gmail.com.
Plug plug.
Yeah, for real.

(09:43):
But one of the original origins was when we would call each other.
We were, I was really getting back into comic books at that time that was post DC, new 52,
but like right into the rebirth era, right?
Right when Marvel started to do some, some of, they don't know exactly what they had
going on right now.
2010.
They did a reboot of the Avengers Assemble and stuff like that.

(10:06):
It was in like the newer defenders came out with actually Iron Fist and Jessica Jones.
And yeah.
So I was really getting back into comics and I was mailing Michael comic books back home
just to give him, try to keep up with his collection because I would make, I would read
anything first just to make sure, you know, they weren't missing any pages and stuff like
that.
I can't just be sending them a bunch of trash.

(10:27):
So we were kind of getting into it that way.
And one of the original origins that the show almost was was just going to be us talking
about who would win in the fight.
Just versus.
Like this versus.
What if Rambo fought the Terminator?
What if Hawkeye fought Bullseye?
What if?
Yeah, no, that was a thousand Fred Flintstone fought Conan the Barbarian.

(10:52):
That's actually a good one.
Fred Flintstone.
I might have to go Fred Flintstone on that one.
Conan the Barbarian would cut his head off.
I don't know man.
Fred can take some damage.
He's a cartoon.
Yeah, but Dabba do.
No man.
He's a cartoon.
You bounce back.
Just animate the next cell.
You're good.
Recycle the backgrounds like they do in the Flintstones.
They'll be right back.
Conan, where is this coming from?

(11:13):
Cheap animation skills.
That's what it's coming from.
But yeah, that was almost the origin.
So I posed to you a question.
I'm trying to think of a good one about who would win in a fight, Michael.
All right.
Korg when he was on the World Breaker Squad, not the more funny version that.
Oh, not the Taika Waititi plays.

(11:34):
I like that version.
Sure.
But Korg from the World Breaker comics.
Okay.
Or the thing.
Didn't they fight?
Didn't they have an issue where they fought?
If so, I don't remember.
I know when World War Hulk was happening and the invasion was happening.
I know his he did come along with them.
Yeah.
They rocked through space.
So World Breaker Korg, which he doesn't get any new powers.

(11:56):
It was just he was just really pissed off at the right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
But he is made of solid rock.
I mean, I honestly couldn't call that one.
I'm not.
I think that Korg and World Breaker Hulk got into a match and World Breaker Hulk handled
him pretty easily.
So yeah, well, he's not on that level.

(12:16):
No, no, he's not.
But then again, the thing has gone toe to toe with the Hulk, although not at his peak
level.
So I'm going to edge it out ever so slightly to the thing just because he's already used
to fighting guys of that particular strength level.
You know what I mean?
So I think I'm inclined to agree with your assessment of the thing as he oftentimes will

(12:42):
take a beating from the Hulk simply to buy time while somebody else figures out a way
to either impress because they one of the reasons he actually was sent off Earth in
the first place was because they destroyed Las Vegas.
And he's like, yeah, we got to stop this from happening.
Right.
Right.
Right.
And the thing took a terrific beating, but he held his own.
But you know, hey, so yeah, I'm inclined to agree.
So yeah, that's that's the origins of the show where Michael and I would pontificate

(13:05):
upon that.
I got one for you.
Okay.
All right.
Okay.
Get me up.
I'm the transporter.
Okay.
Or Denzel Washington from the equalizer or the enforcer.
What are you?
What are you?
Well, Denzel Washington is in Gladiator 2.

(13:27):
Yeah.
So he wasn't in Gladiator 1.
So like when I say sequels is what I'm referring to like where he's in the actual franchise.
Sure.
The equalizer 2 was the first sequel that Denzel Washington ever did.
Really?
Yeah.
I've never seen one before that.
Huh.
Yeah.
Try to think on one.
You can't.
Nope.
Yeah, exactly.
A little bit of trivia for y'all.

(13:48):
Remember, I'm trying to think of like Glory 2.
Like the reckoning.
He burns.
Yeah.
Equalizer 2 was the first sequel he did.
Okay.
So yeah, I dig it.
That's a pretty badass franchise.
Anyway, what's been watching trivia coming up later?
Jason Statham from Transporter or Denzel Washington from the equalizer.
Oh man.
I'm gonna go Statham in the transporter.

(14:14):
Okay.
Good.
Also, he can fight a shark.
Cause Statham is just Statham.
I think you're confused.
You just think that's the same character?
I think he's the, yeah.
He pretty much plays the same guy in every movie.
Sort of like the early Guy Ritchie stuff.
Oh, so that's otherworld.
That's like calm down Statham.
Yeah.

(14:34):
That's not, I'm taking my show.
I don't know though, bro, the scene in the first equalizer where Denzel disarms the guy
and takes the gun and flips it back at him.
I had to slow that down cause I was like, that's fake.
Denzel did that shit.
It's one of the fastest disarms I've ever seen in my life.
It's like a split second.
I flip like I have the gun and suddenly in a blink of an eye, it is pointed back at you
and I have distance.
And apparently that was the first take that he did was the one that they use.

(14:57):
Like they did multiple takes, but they use the first one he did cause he just nailed it.
Yeah.
No, I thought I had, that was a slow rewind scene.
I was like, wait, wait a second.
What the hell did I just witness?
But yeah, that was shout out to him for that.
Speaking of which, I know it's on the internet also, like when you watch the John Wick movies
in the second one, Keanu Reeves started flicking magazines just like with the flick of his wrist.

(15:18):
Yeah.
Normally in a shoot scenario, you hit the magazine release button on the grip and just let the
clip slide out basically.
Yeah.
But he would find a way to do it.
He would drop it and fling it either.
He could do a forehand or backhand.
And that became an actual, and I know they talked about this on Joe Rogan, but like that
became an actual thing that now is being trained.

(15:40):
And it's crazy that an actor like just wanting to master this character found a way to expel
magazines from handguns faster that's now being trained.
So shout out to you Keanu.
That's right.
There's nothing that dude can't do.
He's the man.
I love him.
And I want to see Sonic 3 just because he shadow went it.
Is he really?
Yeah, he shadowed the hedgehog.

(16:01):
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
So apparently me and the kiddos are going to be watching that one repeatedly.
Obviously Sonic with you, man.
Let's go.
Yeah.
Let's go.
Anyways, gotta go fast.
Gotta go fast.
Yeah.
That's been said.
I've heard kids run by saying that.
Just like the hell is that?
Sonic.
I do find it very cool that like Sonic and Sega was kind of, I mean, they stopped making

(16:23):
consoles.
Like they were very niche for a very long time, especially towards the end of their, they
just started simply developing games.
And after like they never really found a way to make 3D Sonic work like on the Genesis
Sonic, Sonic the Hedgehog was like as big as Mario.
Sure.
Sure.
And then slowly but surely like he still had a following, but the games weren't as quality.

(16:43):
They just kind of weren't.
He didn't find the transition.
The character only works on a side scrolling platformer basically, you know, like it's
it's just put in a bunch of loop the loops and half pipes and things like that and go
to town, you know, but you that trying to translate that into a 3D world with especially

(17:03):
the dynamics that they had at the time, you know, the polygons and hexagons is, you know,
basic shapes of, you know, bodies and whatnot.
It just doesn't work.
It worked on the Dreamcast the first two games.
And then after that, it just kind of fell off.
But like the idea that they it doesn't matter anymore because the movie set and now like
Sonic will sell anything through the roof.
So I'm grateful for it that it's one of the few times that the one not one of the few,

(17:28):
but like I'm so happy that the movies like reignited the passion for the developers as
the game and being like, Oh, hey, actually we can make quality games and they'll they'll
sell again because there's interest.
I mean, granted, we could slap a Sonic sticker on it to probably sell some, but the reverence
for it is kind of back now where like Sonic games coming out is a big deal.
So I was like, Hey, cool.

(17:48):
Way to go.
Moving.
I mean, you know, you know, it's a dynamic of like we're always screaming for new IP
and stuff like that.
And yet by reinventing or not reinventing, but re re invigorating or rebooting a series,
especially on a different medium, it just generates so much new interest.
Like, you know, like Liz's kids know who the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are.

(18:11):
Like they just found them and they're all about it.
And so like I've been having conversations with them about like, Who's your favorite
turtle?
And I'm like, Come on, you know, the answer is, yeah, you're a listener.
Yeah.
Oh man, I get a lot of love for our Raphael as a disgruntled doc union worker, by the
way.
I think that's one of our favorite bits we've ever done.
Yeah, that's one of my favorite episodes you've ever done.

(18:33):
Like it's the Ninja Turtles deep dive.
One just because I love the subject matter so much.
Two is just a fun episode to do just because that character lives on.
It was wife Miriam.
Like if you say Miriam, I already know where you're going.
Miriam been working at the doxy in my teenage years.
I was a ninja wasn't paying the bills.
I sacrificed so much for you.
The whole Ninja code went to the wayside to support you Miriam.

(18:56):
So now I bless my show.
You and your rotten, rotten kids that ain't even mine.
They never appreciate me Miriam.
Working 16 hours at the docks unloading boxes from China.
For Raphael.
I got to wear a mask so I don't freak out the other dock workers.

(19:19):
Oh, good stuff.
I sounded like this since I was 14, Miriam.
That's right.
That's right.
And what else is another one?
The nom nom nom nom nom nom.
That's right.
Yeah.
Dog, we got to get this.
Yeah.
We got some merch coming out.
It's got to see the light of day.
It's got to see the light of day.
Let's not make promises.
Yeah, it's got to see the light of day.
We're working on merch.

(19:40):
Yeah.
We have big ideas.
Poor execution.
Our imagination exceeds our grasp.
That's our new sticker.
Big ideas.
Poor execution.
Yeah, what you been watching.
Big ideas for execution.
Oh, please.
We'll leave patent vending.
Don't steal our shit.
Oh, God.
That's all right.
Coffee it out, brother.
We're leaving that coffee in too.
Oh, cheese.

(20:01):
Anyway, why?
Because we don't respect you as listeners.
Damn right.
No, we do.
Anyways, the reason why people tune in now that we've reflected upon some fun times here
at the What's Up in Watch and Podcast, my brother.
The reason why people do turn in.
So we reveal what this episode is all about, actually.
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages, you have just joined into the

(20:25):
great recreditation.
The great recredit sedation.
You see, previously, we were discredited to date.
That's right.
We had just disgraced it ourselves.
I don't know.
That's funny.
I like that bit.
We're going to keep that going for later purposes.

(20:45):
Yeah, we are trying to recredit and recredit today at ourself.
Today, in fact.
And so I ask you this.
Previously, two years ago.
On our first anniversary special, we admitted to movies that we had not seen and had either
lied about or were just so in the in the lexicon of movie lovers that it was shameful

(21:14):
that we had never seen them before.
To host a movie podcast and not see things such as Titanic on my end.
It's pretty bad.
I just love that we spent a whole year being like, here's how we're credible and we're
going to have movie Moxie trivia and really show our metal.
And then we were like, by the way, we're full of shit.

(21:35):
We don't know what the fuck we're talking about.
Do not listen to us.
But also listen to what you won't get on those other podcasts is authenticity.
That's right.
They're going to be out there faking jacks.
As the pest says, the pest Vargas says, there was scamification going on there.
That's right.
We hear what you've been watching when you respect you as an audience to be as transparent
as possible and go, guess what?

(21:57):
We're not as knowledgeable as you think.
And I'm going to quote the late great Colonel Sanders and I say, I'm too drunk to taste
this chicken.
And that's what that is.
So we discredited ourselves after a year of building that.
And then we continue to find out what each other know to truly test each other for you,
the audience in our movie trivy Moxie is showdown.

(22:19):
So you know what we know.
That's right.
You know what we don't know.
But what have we done, Michael?
Go ahead and tell them.
I'm not even going, I don't even get a guy to get at dude anymore.
I'm going to let dude get at dude.
So we have spent the past two years and by two years, I mean cramming in in the last week
when the assignment was due.
Yeah, two days.

(22:39):
I once admitted that I had never seen one of the greatest cinematic masterpieces known
to man, which is Schindler's List.
So my brother, I ask you this very question, the reason that people tune in and tune out
a weekend, a week out for the last three years, raise a glass.
My brother, what you been watching?

(23:01):
I watched the saddest movie that was ever made.
Nice.
And I got to say, not really that impressed.
It's not really that impressive.
Really?
No, fuck no.
It's a cinematic masterpiece.
It's brilliant.
No, it's a real bummer.
Literally, this was like, it's the holidays.

(23:23):
Why are we watching a movie about murder?
I was like, you watch murder shows all the time.
She's like, not like this.
Yeah, this investigative ID murder porn.
Wrong.
We want white people bummer shit over here on the holidays.
That's right.
But yeah, I really couldn't justify.
I was like, because it's due and I have to watch it.

(23:44):
She's like, you know, you don't have to.
And I was like, no, but I have to because I have to rebuild my credit back with the royal
legions.
That's right.
And I was like, what'd you watch?
Tell them just straight up.
I watched Schindler's List and I got to say, I'm proud of you first off and you, the legions
at home, we should statue should be built of this day on this day of this day.

(24:05):
In fact, it should be us holding a calendar in the statue.
So they know we'll be pointing to the date.
Bam.
The date of recreditation.
Sorry, I lost the train of thought there when I tried to sell it.
I love it.
I want that.
Yes.
I want to see those giant statues of myself put up in public places.

(24:25):
Poems and songs shall be sung of the day of this recreditation through the ages.
But yeah, how was it though, man?
It was the great recreditation.
Yeah, we know this is off the rails.
We do not care.
Anyways, how was it though, man?
Because I again, I've said it a million times, I have a strange fondness for this movie.
And I don't know why.

(24:45):
I mean, it's, it's beautiful.
I mean, what can you say?
Every single shot is a work of art and the emotional journey that it takes you on.
I mean, like, I mean, I don't, I honestly don't know what I can say that hasn't been
said about it.
I mean, like I have notes.
I have pages and pages of notes, but like it's all just kind of personal observations.

(25:08):
Like I don't want to spend too much time hyping it up as like, oh, it's just one of the greatest
movies ever made because it is.
But I mean, no, we're gaining our recreditation back.
Michael, so we need to expand upon this.
We can't just be like, yeah, we got it back.
Right, right.
Let the people know this is us to bang our chest for a minute.
I mean, so long story short, the basic theme of Schindler's Schindler's list is what is

(25:33):
the value of a human being?
You know, like what is what is the cost of one life or 10 lives or 1200 lives or whatever
it may be, you know?
And how do you justify the purchase of one life over another?
You know, why is this person more valuable than that person?

(25:53):
Why is this person why is a rabbi or an artist more essential than a metalworker or vice
versa?
You know?
And it's interesting to witness that through the eyes of somebody like Oscar Schindler,
who for three-fourths of the movie is a dick, you know?

(26:15):
I mean, he's say what you want.
But you know, yes, he's a Nazi.
Yes, he's maybe not so vehemently against the Jewish people themselves.
Like like he doesn't stand on those principles, but he is a straight up capitalist and he
does use the plight of the Jewish people as slave labor to make him an immeasurable amount

(26:37):
of wealth, you know?
If his character, Oscar Schindler, was not surrounded by literal murdering Nazis, he
would have been the villain in any other story.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, he's Mr. Potter and it's a wonderful life, you know?
Like the people he surrounds himself with are so terrible that he is an indeed a hero.

(27:01):
You win by default.
You are a protagonist because the only other option is like literal Nazis.
Right, right, right.
But I mean, I do think in the end, and this is the, I think part of the moral crux of
the movie is do the ends justify the means.
And I think by the end, he certainly makes the attempt.
I think it's an honest attempt by the end.
Oh, for sure.
To save as many lives as possible.

(27:21):
He sees what this is, but we'll get to the end in a little bit more morality.
But yeah.
Well, so like like in the beginning, we see what kind of person Oscar Schindler is, you
know?
He uses his wealth, his status and his power to like, you know, he's flashing money.
He's he's picking out what suit he wants to wear the different cuff links.
I mean, and then he uses it just to like get ahead, you know, he's he's tipping the the

(27:48):
serving staff, you know, like tons and tons of money, you know, like retuity tips, all
that kind of thing.
So basically throughout the movie, he's using his wealth and his status and his power to
help those that he feels sympathy for.
But he in the same token, he's using the sweat off their backs to make his fortune,

(28:09):
you know, and altruistically, even at the end of the movie, when he's spending his own
all that ill gotten wealth in order to save these people, does it necessarily justify,
you know, like, would a good person not have taken the money in the first place kind of
thing or do the ends justify the means?
I don't know, he's he's a very complicated, very layered.

(28:34):
I hate to say sympathetic because he's really not.
He's a womanizer.
He's he's a charlatan.
Well, he is.
I would say he is a sympathetic character in the sense of he's navigating in the means
of which of the of the surroundings he has, you know what I mean?
In the world that has been created around him was not by his own making.

(28:56):
Sure.
And as he reap the benefits of that, yes.
But is he necessarily at fault for reaping the benefits of it here or there?
He does have that one line where he's talking to I think it's his wife and he says something
like, you know, I've tried several different businesses and I've I've always been, you
know, falling short and my father was a successful businessman and whatever, whatever, whatever,

(29:19):
you know, I was always a disappointment.
And he says something the effect of like, there was always something from every business
I've ever tried and his wife is like, oh, is it luck?
And he goes, no, war.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Because what does he make?
He does ceramics, right?
He makes a pot of hands.
Like the idea of using, you know, trading lives for trinkets, you know, he's saving these

(29:43):
people from the ghetto and from the work camps to come work in his factory.
He's utilizing the profits of slave labor and materialism by buying lives so that they
can justify their reason to exist.
Does that make sense?
Is that to am I getting lost?

(30:03):
No, no, no, I don't think you're losing the I don't think you're losing the plot at all.
I mean, and here's the part.
Here's the part is that it's and I'm going to try to tread lightly when I say this because
it's it's a fucking terrible set of circumstances, clearly.
But you know, it's no different than at what point if you were in the position that the
Jewish population was in at that point and somebody offered you, hey, you get to make

(30:26):
slave labor or you get to go to a camp and make absolutely nothing.
You'd be like, sign me up for the slave labor plea.
You know, or the the wages, you know, to keep me out of there.
What do I have to do to keep out of there?
I will work night and day.
You will.
I will be the best employee you have for sure.
Just go, OK, cool.
Like it to still profit off of that is one thing, but like and this is what like and

(30:48):
I'm not saying it's the right thing, but I know a lot of companies, you know, like I'm
going to pick on them, you know, like the Nikes of the world or like the apples of the
world or a lot of the textile places that outsource their jobs to other places.
They go, oh, well, we can pay these people pennies because without us, they got absolutely
nothing.
Sure.
And it's like, well, you could pay them their worth, though, too.

(31:08):
Right.
Right.
The issue is, though, is that that's just poor moral ethics.
The thing that what makes Oscar Schindler so complicated in again, he is a Nazi.
He is a member of the Nazi Party, but he very much so he's diet version of it.
Again, that doesn't not condoning that in any fashion, former function.
If you can't get that past this and we can't have an adult conversation about the character

(31:29):
and his flaws all the way around, probably need to turn this podcast off.
I mean, and like I said, I've already admitted that he's a he's a problematic, you know,
like I said, he's a womanizer.
That's I know a lot of people with a womanizing some of his other flaws.
I know a lot of people with those down flaws, you know what I mean?
Sure.
Sure.
Sure.
More relatable in that sense than anything else.
But I mean, I just recollecting the scene where his wife comes to visit him after he's

(31:53):
already established the workforce in crack hour or whatever.
And she's walking out of the door with with him and she kind of stumbles her step a little
bit and the doorman goes, oh, sorry, miss, watch the curb.
And he has to stop and be like, that's Mrs. Schindler.
Oh, yeah.
And he kind of gets this look on his face like, oh, I just fucked up because he'd Oscar

(32:13):
Schindler had been, you know, womanizing and running his way through all the different
secretaries and he had a habit of picking out the really good looking Jewish girls and
stuff like that.
Yeah.
He did surround himself with the finer things as it were.
And you know, the female, you know, Nazi officers, he was endearing to them and charming
and what have you.
Anyway, you know, he had a way with women.

(32:34):
He was very, very driven.
They talk about that.
And he kisses the Jewish girl at his party and he does it in front of all his Nazi compatriots,
whatever.
They're just like, oh, the Jewish person has a way to put a spell on you and they're like,
they punish her for his actions and wild shit, man.
But he knows he knew who he was.
He's a womanizer.
He's drunken.
But anyway, his wife comes to visit and she gets that stumble.

(32:56):
And later they're talking and she's like, I would I want to stay with you, but you have
to promise me that I'm never going to be mistaken as your mistress again.
I want to be Mrs. Oscar Schindler cut to smash cut.
Very next scene.
She is waving bye bye on a train.
That dude said, you can kick rocks on and down the road and enjoy the fortune because

(33:20):
I got free pussy here.
Yeah, there it is.
There it is.
But no, what I was saying about it beforehand was that the world in which he operates in
is it is part of this movie is a heist movie.
And it's like how do we heist these human lives because Ben Kingsley's character is in on
it and he's smart enough to cook the books and realize what's going on.
And it's like, as long as you're turning a profit for the war machine and nobody's

(33:44):
got to look your way, no one's going to.
But you have to be continually turning a profit.
So when they come investigate, we got to look the part as it were.
But like the thing with Oscar Schindler, why the complexities kick in is it's if he shows
too much like, yeah, I'm all in on sympathy for the Jewish people.
Like you get killed.
Like they find somebody else that'll run this factory for you, dude.

(34:06):
No questions asked.
And so you kind of have to keep appearances.
And so that's why it's like does.
Yes, he is certainly benefiting from the party that's in power.
But like what really other option does he have?
It's not like he's truly free to do what he wants.
Right.
Exercise it a little bit better.
Yeah, but man, you got to tread real lightly in these scenarios.

(34:27):
That's why that scene when they're bringing in the the I guess they're Hungarians or
whatever onto the train car and it's a hot day and he's sitting down with Aiman Goath
and they're fanning themselves and he he you know, Oscar goes, we should wet down the cars,
you know, and he brings in extra hoses and starts spraying down all the carts and the
people are crowding the windows and just clamoring for a little bit of water, a little

(34:49):
bit of moisture, a little bit of because they're literally cooking to death inside these metal
train cars.
And Aiman looks at him and he's laughing and they're drinking and he goes like, oh, you're
so cruel, Oscar.
Don't give them hope.
You're giving them hope.
Yeah.
And I said it on your line.
It's fine.
It's fine.
Yeah.
But then Oscar has to basically play the role of like, just amuse me, you know, like, let

(35:10):
me have this.
It's a completely altruistic, generous motive, but you have to mask it with this sense of
utter cruelty.
Yeah.
And then he kind of slips a little bit in.
I think that's the part where Aiman sort of looks through the facade or through the thin

(35:31):
veneer and he's like, oh, Oscar really does care about these people.
And he's using my apathy, hatred, whatever it is to play into what he wants.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because he was very adamant about it.
He's like, get more hoses, like it, get the people in the back, get them all.
And he's like, dude, like, what are you doing?

(35:51):
Right.
That important.
And he could kind of tell that was one of the parts you're right where the shield kind
of dropped of what he was trying to do.
And it's cruel, man.
And more on like when we did our villain bracket and we were talking about Ray Fine as Aiman
goes, properly ranked, he's got to be in the pantheon of all time to speak.

(36:12):
Oh, yeah, dude.
Yeah.
He's got it.
He's easily top four.
Like I think he was in the top four in the end, but like he rightfully so what a complete
scumbag.
But man, what a performance by freaking Ray Fine.
It is.
It's amazing to see.
He's he is so embodied in that character.
You really do lose the Ray Fines of it all.

(36:35):
It's like he becomes Aiman Goeth is hated, you know, like detestable, just loathsome person.
That scene where he's standing on his balcony and just randomly shooting into the crowd
of workers with a sniper rifle, you know, like, oh, that one stopped to pick up a rock.
Bam, they're get they're dead.
That one stopped to tie their shoe.
Bam.

(36:55):
They stopped and leaned against the doorway just for a hot second.
Bam.
They're gone.
That one's just there.
Just, yeah.
No, it's in the way that that scene is shot with the boy walking back.
Oh, my God, Steven Spielberg.
Why are you so good at your job, sir?
Friend of the show Steven Spielberg.
I mean, no, I mean, we could sit there and talk about, I mean, Steven Spielberg certainly

(37:17):
deserved to win an Oscar for his direction of that film.
It is so well shot.
And I mean, everyone knows about like the if you've seen the movie like the one girl
in the red dress.
I was just going to say the use of color and or I should say the limited use of color in
that, you know, like the opening shot is they're opening on a Jewish prayer and their
lighting candles and everything in the room at first is is, you know, it's all colorized

(37:44):
and whatnot.
And then slowly they light candles and only the candles themselves stay in color as the
whole rest of the room fades to black and white, you know.
The scene with a girl in the red dress, you know, where Oscar is watching the liquidation
of the ghetto.
And for some reason, his attention fixates on this one little girl in a red dress that
she just makes her way through all the chaos and gunfire and bodies being piled up in the

(38:08):
streets just to have it be brought back later so that when she's being brought out, you
know, atop a stack of bodies on a cart, the red dress again stands out, you know, like
Oscar Schindler has no connection to this girl and yet in his mind by watching her through
the chaos of the ghetto forms this connection so immediate and so thoroughly that he's

(38:29):
able to recognize later when it was too late to do anything about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's that's one of the scenes that it's it.
That's I think what brought home the Oscar scenes like that, man.
And it's we sit there and polish Steven Spielberg all we want to.
But man, the guy earns his keep.
Jesus.
I mean, so good at what he does.
How to make, you know, shoot shit and make it look good.

(38:52):
I'll give him that.
Yeah.
I mean, he like if somebody were to say like who's that Steven Spielberg is the greatest
director of all time, it doesn't take a lot of an argument like, yeah, you certainly I
may disagree for or whomever may disagree with it.
But like the argument is sound and it doesn't take much.
The points are right there in front of you.
Sure.

(39:12):
Sure.
I mean, at that point, it's sort of become subjective, not objective.
Yeah.
I think objectively he was considered.
He's not Rushmore.
But yeah, it may be not the but one of like high contender, you know, I mean, you can't
argue that.
So no, it's but yeah, what else you got in terms of notes because there's there's so
much in the idea also speaking of performances, the idea that Liam Neeson on that dreaded

(39:37):
day went home empty handed, Michael.
Oh, really?
Went home empty handed, big dog.
And if y'all know, wait, wait, wait.
So Oscars, he went home.
Walker Schindler went home empty handed.
Sons Oscar.
You know who he lost to?
I have no idea who freaking Tom Hanks in Philadelphia.

(40:01):
Like the other bummer movie of the year.
We got the Holocaust.
I got AIDS.
Here you go.
You go.
Right.
Roaring, joyful summer.
That was I bet.
Jesus.
Real Sophie's choice.
That one, which is another bummer movie.
Yeah, if you haven't seen it.
Yeah, but man, I don't know how he how he missed that one.

(40:22):
stiff competition that year, though.
I think he was up against Malcolm Denzel Washington and Malcolm X as well.
Maybe not.
No, no, no, no, no, no, that was see your last percent of woman.
Anyways, yeah, yeah, keep going.
Keep going.
Anywho.
Yeah, we were kind of talking touching on a little bit earlier about like the sanctity
the sanctity of usefulness, you know, how like these people are just clamoring to like,

(40:46):
let me be useful, let me have a reason to exist, you know, there's that scene where
they're building the bunker and and this woman comes running out and she's, you know, says
that, you know, I graduated from architecture school or engineering school in in Seville
or something like that or one of the European universities.

(41:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, I'm telling you that the way that they're building this laying the concrete on
this bunker, you're going to have sinkage, it's eventually going to collapse.
The roof is going to kill people.
You have to stop and redo it.
You have to redo it all.
And Aiman shoots her.
Yeah, rather than just argue with her, you know, like, OK, I hear you.
What's your accreditation?

(41:29):
You know, she mentions it.
You know, she's very impassioned.
This is a woman who just wants to do her job.
She wants to do her job right.
And when you look at it further, they're building a bunker to house the soldiers that are going
to employ the work camp.
So she's working to save Nazi lives.
And your award to her is a bullet to the brain pan, which he then immediately turns around

(41:53):
and goes to all that shit.
She just said, do that.
Yeah, dude, I forgot about that.
The pivot.
Speaking of in the pivot, man, how powerful was the scene when he walks around?
I pardon you.
I pardon when.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oscar and and Aiman have a conversation about, you know, what is power?
And Aiman says, like, they start talking about why the Jews fear them.

(42:16):
And and Oscar says, like, well, it's because we have the right to kill them.
And Aiman's like, no, it's because we have the right to kill them arbitrarily.
They fear us because we have guns and a willingness to use them.
That's why they fear us.
Yeah.
And he makes it, you know, Oscar makes the argument like, well, that's not power.
The power to kill is we've been granted that individually since humans first walk the earth.

(42:38):
You know, there's nothing stopping me from killing you or you killing the next person.
The next guy or whatever, whatever, especially when we do sit high, you know, sit higher
than right, right.
Yeah.
When when we can justify it by going like, oh, well, they're breaking the law by being
Jewish or smoking a cigarette on on the work schedule or hoarding food or whatever.
Like then we kill.
We have them killed or we kill them ourselves and it makes us feel even better.

(43:02):
But that's not power.
Real power is and then he tells the story of the emperor who pardoned the the feeding
man, you know, like, oh, well, this and this.
This man's a nothing.
He's a beggar.
He's a a a non entity in society.
So killing him adds what I pardon you.
Go away.
Be gone from my sight.

(43:22):
And so then, amen.
The whole rest of the day is I pardon you.
And you know, he sees the Nazi guard pulling the woman by her hair like, oh, she stopped
to eat on the job or something like that.
I forget what it was.
And he goes, well, tell her not to do it again.
He just rides off on his horse.
Yeah.
And then I this the I part he's practicing in the mirror.
I pardon you.
Yeah.

(43:42):
Parting his hair and trying to find his right side so he can, you know, and then he totally
invalidates it all when you fuck that.
Yeah.
He turned me soft.
His thing.
This is he goes young Rizzi on him.
It's yeah.
He his servant boy doesn't get the rings out of his bathtub the right way.
And so at first he tells him, OK, we'll just go back to the camp.

(44:05):
And then he shoots him.
He just he takes a look at the mirror and goes, nah, fuck that.
And so he rejects the entire people playing on my phone.
He rejects the entire philosophy of the very thing he was taught.
He's so driven by his needs, he's a power and hatred and spiteful.
He's a man.
It's not even hatred.

(44:25):
I think that if it was it's not that Aiman hates Jewish people.
He just hates everybody.
And so he's a bully.
And so he's going to look for the people where it's OK to bully them and it's OK to get away
with it.
If it was black people, if it was Chinese, it didn't matter any other nationality.

(44:46):
If the Germans had been given the OK to hate them, he would have hated them instead of the
Jewish people.
I think that he just he has a desire to to make other people feel smaller because ultimately
without that, what does he have?
He's a little man with you.
But you touching on something I said in the villain racket, which I don't know if you

(45:08):
remember this, one of the we started to get down to the final four and one of my final
arguments was he has something that no none of the other villains really have or at least
certainly don't have it to the capacity and he has and what makes him so fearful.
And this is is no, I'm sorry, what makes him so scary is this happens in society all the
time.

(45:29):
And I think is when scared men get power, weak or I said no, weak men, when we can men
get power, we should all be afraid.
And that's exactly what happened.
Very poignant.
Yeah.
And that that was my argument that I was very time.
Current events very timely.
And that was the thing that made me so scared of him just as as a movie villain there.

(45:52):
And just like I said, man, when weak men get power, they're more than willing to abuse
it.
And he was certainly the poster child of that because you could see him.
He was very weak.
He was influenced just as easily by, you know, Oscar Sennler, just after a conversation
who definitively said with a little bit of confidence, yeah, man, pardoning, that's the
real power, which even then that was Oscar Sennler trying to shoehorn some mercy.

(46:14):
And if that saved one life, then that was all worth it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So good on him for that.
So yeah, fucking terrifying.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's coming back.
All movies terrifying, really.
There's there's moments in that movie where it looks like literal hell.
It looks like if I could imagine, I don't, you know, I'm not a believer, but like if

(46:38):
I could imagine that this is hell, that would be what it would look like.
You know, the scene where there's a scene where Aiman is told by his superiors that
he needs to dig up all the bodies from the work camp that had been buried in the forest,
you know, and it's a literal machine.

(46:58):
It's a treadmill conveyor belt of just bodies going into this burning pit.
And the motherfucking thing is stacked 30 feet high.
I don't know.
Yeah, that that actually.
And this is the scene that I told you a while ago was one of the most frightening scenes
in that movie.
And I can't remember if we talked about it on air or off or if it was during the the

(47:22):
villain bracket.
But the scene where the fucking scumbag Nazi, there's already a pile of burning flesh and
he takes his gun and just fires it.
Yeah, I just start shooting into it.
That scene sticks with me more often than it should.
And it's one of the most powerful scenes in this.
The pure hatred and vitriol that comes from that man and the joy he feels is just sickening.

(47:43):
And that scene makes me like uncomfortable in all the proper ways.
So we're gonna definitely have to put a trigger warning on the in the right.
I mean, whatever, we're talking about the Holocaust, man.
Like, I don't know how do you just I mean, we're really just talking about the power
of this movie.
Like we try to not sometimes we stray from our task.
We really just try to relate.

(48:04):
Any time we talk about like touchy subjects, we just try to talk about them and how they
relate to film.
Right.
So we're trying to keep it in balance.
But that scene with that treadmill and the dude turning the firing his gun into it and
screaming like that shit's horrifying to me.
Yeah, that's the other class film making stuff, man.
The other scene that really got me was when Oscar visits Auschwitz and you literally can

(48:31):
see the ashes of the bodies falling on everybody and there's kids playing it like it's the fucking
snow day, you know, and he he pulls the ashes off the top of his car and he realizes like
what it actually is, you know, he's like, oh, this isn't snow.
This isn't, you know, precipitation, whatever it is.
This is ash.
I know what they're doing here and the look on his face like that that turn where he finally

(48:55):
realizes like, oh, this isn't just about imprisoning Jewish people.
This is about extermination.
Like that that turn for him is where it happens is where he finally goes like this can't just
be about making money anymore because they're always going to take away my workers.
They're always going to find a reason to kill them.
It's not about capitalism anymore.

(49:16):
It's about how do I preserve my own humanity?
How to preserve my sense of self worth knowing that I'm just turning these people out to
make a profit just to have them executed.
You know, it's one thing that it's one thing to have a slave labor camp and like try to
care for your people as much as you can slaves.

(49:37):
But you know what I mean?
But like he offers really shitty working conditions.
The other one is legit a slave labor death camp.
You know, there's a vast difference between the two.
Sure.
Sure.
And there is the scene also where he goes to his superiors.
We kind of storms in on him on Goat and he's like, you want me to make this factory work.
And yet you keep taking all my workers and he kind of airs out that grievance with him

(49:58):
and go through some other members and like kind of a careful buddy.
And then he's actually looking for Ben Kingsley.
Ben Kingsley's character at one point.
Yeah, that dude's name is hold on before I forget.
Yeah.
What is it?
Because I know I just know it was.
It's Stern.
It's ack.
It's it's ack.
It's ack.
Okay.

(50:18):
I think I'm pronouncing that either way.
I apologize.
Ben Kingsley's character and he said, no, he's like, we'll just get another one.
He's like, no, no, no, like he's the guy that I need to run this factory properly.
He knows all my numbers.
He knows all my right.
And they kind of start to see it like, oh, like, what are you tripping about this for
man?
Like, and that's kind of when he starts to pivot and like, we need to get more people
here because not only this is extermination and genocide and, you know, the look on Ben

(50:42):
Kingsley's it sucks face when he shows up to save him from the train.
Like, no, no, you, you, like I need these these names on this list.
I need them off that train now.
Like that look of sheer gratitude.
And he was so like, I'm sorry.
I forgot my papers.
I normally do it, you know, and he was like, and the way Oscar responds to is like, what
would happen to me if I lost you?

(51:04):
Like he turns it into something about himself.
Like, oh, I'm sorry that you were almost sent to a fucking death camp.
He's like, well, what position would I be if I didn't have you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think you also meant, yeah, in terms of that we could get exposed if you're not here.
You're pretty good at hiding the things that we're doing.
And I don't think, you know, I had, that's how I took it.

(51:26):
I had not considered that we're going to get busted and we're all going to get black bag
goose.
What's the police?
The Gestapo Gestapo.
Yeah.
I almost said Gustavo, but I knew that was the pest.
So yeah, we're going to get Gestapo here.
So that's kind of how I viewed it, but you're right.
It is.
I never saw it the way you said it.
So I could be, you know, open for interpretation.
Yeah.
I often wonder, like I really do struggle with like, there's a certain point in my notes

(51:50):
where I'm making, I talk about like, oh, is Oscar being completely altruistic?
Is he really trying to save people, especially in the beginning?
And then I just put dot, dot, dot.
Oh, no, he's a dick.
Yeah.
He's certainly up to a certain point.
I think, I think once he goes to Auschwitz and sort of sees the, sees how the tide is
turning, that's where he really has a change of heart and really starts to realize like,

(52:14):
oh, it's not just about making money.
It's about like, these people are being exterminated and it's a losing battle.
I don't know if he's necessarily a dick and it could be.
I mean, we just, I'm not going to argue the semantics of what makes a dick.
The one thing I could 100% agree on is he's certainly a very flawed person.
Yes.
He's certainly a very flawed human.

(52:36):
And certain, some of those flaws certainly, you know, they come to light.
But I think I said by the end, the very ending scene, you know, before they talk about the
legacy of Oscar Schindler and the people that he saved and having the tree planted in, you
know, spoiler alert, tree planted in Israel on holy grounds and his name and stuff like
that and how several Jewish families were to write letters back to the people to sort

(53:02):
of clear his name as a right, right.
In terms of like, he personally saved my life.
Like he's not a Nazi.
Don't, you know, yeah, yeah, we, there's our generations of our family can live on from
this man.
But the scene where he's talking about this car, this car, that could have been 10 more
people.
This ring, that could have been at least one.
Oh yeah.
He pulls off the pen.
He's like, this pen is solid goal.

(53:22):
This was two lives, maybe one, but it's one more, one more, one more.
And then they're just trying to console him like you've done everything you can do, man.
You've done everything you can do.
Like 1200 people exist right now because of your direct actions.
Like, and just, I don't know, seeing him break down and just be like, the gratitude the
workers share.
What could I have done?

(53:43):
You know, like, I could have done more.
It's like, it's like that, that joke in, in Bojack Horseman where they're like, it's
like Schindler's List, right?
Like how long can this list be?
And then at the end you're like, but was it long enough?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's, the scenery said, I could have done more.

(54:05):
I could have done more.
You know, and he's like weeping to himself and all the workers are rallying behind them.
They all hug him.
Yeah.
Each individually.
Yeah.
And the powerful scene is when he says like, they're going to, the war is over, the tides
are turning.
Right.
They're going to capture me and they're going to try me as a war criminal, certainly for
financial crimes as well.

(54:26):
He's like, I'm going to be found guilty.
Right.
Right.
Right.
And then the, the, the Nazi officers that are, that are supposed to help run his labor
camp and he goes, well, you guys have the option right now.
You could, you know, I'm sure that the orders are coming down right now from your superiors
to clear every person out of this camp.

(54:46):
Now you, I've assembled them all here.
You could take them all out right now, just open fire on the crowd, or you could return
to your homes as men and not murderers.
And then one by one, they all just turn and just walk away.
Like it's beautiful.
Yeah.
Go be with your families.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Go, go home boys.

(55:07):
Go home.
Yeah.
So that's, that's a really powerful way they end it and just, it's, it's a, you know, how
that man went home empty-handed.
That's a crime in itself.
Yeah.
I do like it though.
He says like they're, I'm going to be tried as a war criminal and they're, and I'm going
to be found guilty.
Right.
And it actually took, that was the powerful part of the end is when they kind of recolorized
the movie and they say like, Hey, like all these letters were sent to try to clear his

(55:29):
name and let, let, yeah.
Every single one of the, the, you enter wherever the governing body was.
Yeah.
Stern hands him, you know, a pack, a stack of papers and goes, here's letters that every
single one of the workers in the camp have written clearing your name.
So if you get caught, just hand them this, we've all signed it, you know.
And so like, you're a good dude and he's like, but was I, but was I good enough?

(55:55):
Tell me I'm good.
Please tell me.
I'm like, I made so much money off of you.
Even says I made so much money off of all this.
I think I could have been more here.
Anyways, again, it's, it's what is the value of a life going either way?
You know, what is it?
What is it?
The cost of a worker?
What is the cost of your own soul?
I don't know.
It's anyway, just, just to sum it up, a couple more notes I have.

(56:20):
It highlights the hypocrisy of, you know, work makes you free.
You know, the, the labor camps have our buck mock fry, you know, work makes you free written
above, but then the, the sanctity of usefulness is completely broken because death is so ran.
It doesn't matter how hard you work.
It doesn't matter what your skill level is.

(56:41):
If they just decide that you die today, you die today.
And there's, there's no amount of work makes you free that is true in that statement.
It's just you're lucky if you survive and maybe it's shot in the head today.
Maybe you go to the gas chambers.
Maybe you get to work one more day.

(57:02):
If you could fold, you know, amen, ghost, laundry the right way.
Who knows?
Who knows?
On the whim of a scared, scared man, especially as close to you like the closer you would
think the closer you got to that guy, the safer you would be.
But boy, the more volatile that was.
The was the chick's name Helen Hirsch.
Yeah.

(57:23):
Yeah.
Who was his like literally like his live in made and he made passes on her when she there's
that great scene where he's he's trying to talk himself out of sleeping with her or let's
just call a spade of spade raping her.
And she's not saying anything.
She's just standing there in her nightgown just trembling and he's going like, well,

(57:46):
no, no, you make a good point.
You know, is this the face of a, you know, we've compared Jews to rats.
Is this the face of a rat?
No, it's the face of a woman.
But also you Jews are Trixie.
So yeah, you I shouldn't fall for it.
And like he's having this whole ethical conversation with in his mind that is completely one side

(58:08):
of this rationalizing it both ways.
And she says nothing.
The entire scene just stands there.
And it's such a powerful scene, just the the torment of this dude who just is unhinged,
dude, unhinged and volatile, volatile and violent and just no impulse control whatsoever.

(58:30):
And so he justifies it at the end by just beating the hell out of her because where
you're a Jewish bitch and you try to trick me, she hasn't said one fucking word the entire
time.
Yeah.
Sickening man is a man's behavior.
Sickening is a top four villain of all time for a reason.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know.
I really don't know what else I can say about it other than like it's a brilliant piece

(58:52):
of cinema and I'm glad I got to see it.
I'm glad that I finally sat down and forced myself to watch it because it is it is a work
of art.
There there there's movies, you know, like popcorn countries where you just you eat the
you eat the popcorn, you stuff the snacks in your mouth and everybody goes like, oh,
look at that.

(59:13):
Boobs.
That's awesome.
Fast and furious movies.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Nothing wrong with which by the way, there's boobs in this movie, but they're sad boobs.
They're tragic boobs.
They're like, they're not good.
We got it.
I don't feel good about these.
We got it.
We got it.
And I love boobs.
I want to feel good about boobs.
These are not good boobs.
I got it.
We're locked in.
But we got I know where you're going with it.

(59:34):
I'm just saying it's not three long boobless hours, but all right.
All right.
But yeah, it's I'm glad I got to sit down and watch it.
I don't know when I'm going to sit down and watch it again in terms like, wow, can't
wait to watch that.
I don't know, man.
Yeah.
I think that movie works best in clips.

(59:55):
I really think if you watch that movie sectionally, you'll get a good appreciation for the art
without having to be like, oh, man, people are just shit.
Yeah.
And like I said, I have a weird for lack of a better term like attraction on that movie.
And I don't I think it's just that good of a movie that it is.
It is.

(01:00:16):
It is in terms of just watching a film presented on screen.
You're like, this is fucking really good.
Damn, the subject matter is shit, though.
Mm hmm.
And it's just I really appreciate the character of Oscar Schindler because he's so layered
because there's so many complexities.
Sure.
And you can ask these and have these kind of debates and no one can walk away.
I don't unless you just say some absurd shit.

(01:00:36):
Like, you know, he's an alien the whole time.
And like, OK, want to hear your theory?
I think you're wrong.
But so well, I guess on that note, you've been partially re-accredited.
And how does that feel?
It feels good.
Feels good to bear my burdens before all of the loyal listeners, all of the loyal legions.
And we got we gained a little bit of it back.

(01:00:57):
I had to walk on broken glass in order to to re-accreditate myself.
It is.
We're on the path for the Y.O.U. people on the path.
For the Y.O.U.
My brother, what do you rate it?
Oh, man, I'm going to give it to Tread carefully.
You see me trying to make a joke.

(01:01:18):
Tread carefully.
I'm going to give it 1200 people worth of a legacy.
Phenomenal review.
Phenomenal review.
I'll give it.
Tread carefully.
I'll give it.
I will give it Tom Hanks, old bitch ass in 1995, earning an undeserved statute.

(01:01:43):
1991.
No, 95.
Was it 95?
Yeah, buddy.
All right.
Some of us have done our research.
I have what is called 20-20 memory.
Also Tom Hanks, the views reflected by one MD3 are not necessarily reflect all of what
you've been watching.
Please come in the podcast.
He won back to back, dawg.
He went back to back.
He won Philadelphia and Forrest Gump.

(01:02:04):
Yep.
And then, no, or was it Castaway?
He won for Castaway too, didn't he?
But that was years later.
Yeah, he's all bitch ass.
Oh, no, but then he did it again with Castaway and Captain Phillips.
No, no, Castaway can't.
No, no, no, no, you're wrong there.
Oh, you're talking about back to back?
Yeah.
No.
All right.
Hang on, we're going to hit pause.

(01:02:25):
We're going to Google Tom Hanks back to back.
Oscar wins.
We'll be right back from the Wild Speculation podcast.
There you go.
So it turns out once again, I have to eat shit and bow to my youngest brother's infinite
movie knowledge.
Movie trivia.

(01:02:46):
Moxie.
Turns out I was wrong on all counts.
No, you're good, buddy.
You're good.
I'm just glad I doubled down on my stupidity.
I'm for it.
I'm for it.
I'm going to get me questioned in myself.
Michael say some dumb shit so boldly.
Be like, am I dumb as shit too?
Nope.
Usually I am too in just different ways.
Well, cool, man.

(01:03:07):
I'm so glad you re-accredited half of this.
Guess what I did?
You could ask me a certain question.
I'll let you know.
Let's can we take a break from our sponsors?
That's a good idea.
That's a good idea.
We do owe it to our sponsors to give them a live read.
Let's write it.
Play music over.
We will be right back from our sponsor Napster.

(01:03:29):
Napster, when you want to spend three days downloading one album, remember that shit?
We'll be right back.

(01:04:05):
And once again, legions, we are back from our sponsor Napster.
Napster, look for that T3 connection.
Make sure you check the ping.
Yeah, what's that ping?
Yeah, you go for cable DSL back in the day when you had the 56K because boy, that 56K

(01:04:29):
to 56K took days.
Oh, man.
Well, here we are, man.
I've tried to work myself back into the hearts of the legions.
I got to ask you, sir, what you've been watching?
My man.
Before I dive into what I want to dive into, I did watch something that I'll forget to

(01:04:50):
talk about if I don't talk about it now.
Okay, speak on a son.
I watched another documentary.
This one's kind of culty.
I'm going to go off on a limb and say it is culty.
Okay.
It's called Breath of Fire and it's about the people who ran Kundalini yoga back in
the day.
Kundalini yoga?
Yeah.
That sounds sexy.
Yeah.

(01:05:10):
Yeah.
It sounds like Kundalini's Arras.
Yeah, but Kundalini yoga.
It was this guy came over from India and introduced us.
Oh, it's a sacred tradition that's been passed down orally and it's never been shown to any
introduced it to the West and he ended up becoming very popular.
That has happened.
It happens to a bunch of people and these stories all hit the same beats in terms of

(01:05:33):
like guess what he got as his closest circle?
There's a bunch of women, right?
Shocker, right?
Yeah.
And guess what happened next?
He slowly took advantage of them and this and that and the third and there was a pyramid
scheme.
This dude was hustling drugs and all that stuff.
And so that's one half of the story they tell is just the story of the guy who brought
it over.
I forget his name.

(01:05:54):
Like Yogi Bajan or something like that.
Right.
And he's credited with bringing it over to the West, but really he was using this as
a pyramid scheme from the teachers to he eventually was like smuggling drugs and some
of his inner people got arrested for that.
And one of the guys he trained ended up training this other lady who mostly the documentary

(01:06:18):
splits time with the story of Yogi Bajan and this woman who formerly went by the name of
Kundalini Kate, who just used to make astrology videos.
Okay.
And then all of a sudden we found this form of yoga and like transformer whole life and
then she became this like sensation like an influencer or something.

(01:06:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And like she really capitalized on it and she had some other guy, this dude Steve who
was actually from Yonkers that was some Yogi as well.
I was like, all right, dude, all right, Steve, I'm guru Steve from Yonkers.
Pretty much.
He changed his name to some absurd, but like you can apply to this Kundalini site or whatever
and you just pay money and request a change name change or like your official name and

(01:07:02):
they just give it to you.
It's not like some bestowing upon it and they all just did that.
They got some certificate.
Can I change my name to awesome dragon?
Sure.
If you want it to, but it's got to be bestowed.
You have to put in the request as to be like whatever, but she went by guru Jagat.
Just chick Katie Kundalini, Katie.
And then she eventually just kind of started running schemes as well, not nearly to the

(01:07:23):
level of the other guy.
Like she wouldn't run in drugs or anything like that, but she was, you know, the same
thing man.
She gets free labor out of people.
And if you want to be spiritual, it's like tithing and stuff.
Oh, right.
She would pay people.
You got to dedicate your time and effort to the church and how far up the spiritual ladder
do you want to go?
Right.

(01:07:44):
Like what's your dedication?
We're going to need you to like, Hey, just give me your bank account number.
And I'll run your finances and or just pay them nothing and then ask them in return to
then tie the back to them.
You know, it's just, and it's, it's just, it's the same racket over and over.
And it, it was kind of sounds like Scientology.
Wait, we're going to have to cut that.
Yeah.
But it was, it was a racket and her, her crimes were certainly lessened than some of the other

(01:08:08):
people.
But you know, she was taken advantage of it.
And I think she was being taken advantage of as this other dude, Steve or whatever is
that?
What the, what the, what the, what the, what the, what the, what the, what the, what the
name was, but Yonkers Steve Yonkers Steve was kind of taken advantage of her as he kind
of saw the vision in her and or saw her vision in, in terms of being this like new age, like

(01:08:31):
they didn't want this like, and this is their words, these like basic yoga bitches to just,
you know, they wanted people that are really looking for something new.
And she kind of saw that like the expansion of social media and this way to really capitalize
on this.
And we got people, everyone from like Alicia Keys stopping into these major celebrities
and paparazzi are hanging outside of the studio.

(01:08:52):
They're opening up a new studio in Colorado, which surely enough financial problems hit
out there.
So it, it's just interesting.
I just kind of wrapped myself into these things every once in a while.
And this one wasn't nearly as like mind control.
Yes.
Some of the other ones, but part of what they do in Kundalini yoga was like, it's a lot
of breathing exercises and it's very intense.

(01:09:12):
So they get you high pretty much on your own supply.
Yeah.
You're flooding your brain with oxygen and serotonin and yeah, and dolphins being like,
wow, I feel really good.
Like, yeah, you just breathe heavy for 45 minutes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's the same equivalent of like spending around your backyard for 15 minutes at a time.

(01:09:33):
Pretty much.
Wow, I'm high as fuck.
And then they put these pamphlets in front of you.
Like if you want to experience this again, you can just do this basic tier.
But if you want one on one time, if you take this tier, right, right, you get time with
Katie and if you do this ultimate, I really want to be spiritual tier.
It's like 16 grand a month and like they're really trying to hit upper class, right?

(01:09:54):
Californian, stay at home wives or whatever.
It's the same principle of like an only fans tier.
Like, like, oh, if you sign up for the basic, then like you get access to all my photos
and videos or whatever.
If you sign up for the VIP, then you get, you know, like, I'll send you as personal text
message once a week or like you get one on one time or like a discount on costumes or

(01:10:15):
like I'm not saying this is like a bad thing.
Like I've completely subscribed to only fans before.
I'm just saying like it's weird having like tiers for a religious experience.
Yeah, spiritual experience.
And they knew that most millennials are very much so we're not as into the organized traditional
religion, but we do desperately seek one on one attention or no, no, no, we desperately

(01:10:39):
seek spiritual, like elevated spiritual stuff.
You know, like we're in search of something more spiritual than we are organized religion,
just as a, as a generation.
Sure, sure, sure.
So they kind of took advantage of that.
And again, her crimes weren't nearly as bad.
The funny part is, it's not funny, but the ironic part is when the other, the first

(01:11:01):
yogi who kind of came over, not not Yonkers, Yogi, Yogi Bodrum.
Yeah, he eventually would like he was preaching all this stuff and he was really like he was
preaching pro women stuff.
But then it was like in the meantime, he was like performing some really heinous acts against
people's will.
Oh, good.
You know, and then was saying that like, oh, how many times, like kind of like it's your
fault if that happens to you saying like, like ridiculous stuff.

(01:11:25):
Like if you find yourself in that situation, it's your fault.
Like, wait a second, I don't think that's how it works at all.
But it is ironic in the sense of he was preaching all these things.
And then it was like nobody ever saw him do yoga and his favorite thing to do was like,
they even said like, part of my spiritual ascension is for me to be like, why can't he was smart

(01:11:45):
and as a businessman in the sense of he, he openly admitted part of my ascension is,
is material things.
Like you would want your teacher to be a shower and material.
So he bought all sorts of gold and cars and stayed in really expensive places, but he
stopped living the life.
Like he's never did yoga.
He just sat on a mat and talked and breathed at people and gave out these life commands.

(01:12:06):
And they said he died of all sorts of health complications.
They had to wean him off of pain pills just so he could sign legal documents.
And that doesn't sound like, like one of the tenants is like clean spiritual, healthy
living.
Like it doesn't sound like you're checking any of those boxes.
Barley perc set.
Exactly.
And so they had to wean them off of that stuff just to, because he was in so much pain from

(01:12:28):
his crappy living and his favorite thing to do was get Taco Bell and have somebody mush
it all together.
What?
He would buy Taco Bell every day and he would get somebody to mash it up for his meals.
So he was like diabetic by the end.
He had lost toes and he's like out there preaching spiritual health and stuff.
It's like, why is my Taco Bell for readable?

(01:12:49):
Somebody bring me my Doritos Los Tacos.
He really got in the blender.
I want you to baby bird it to me.
The baby bird.
Yeah.
He put the extra hot sauce on it.
I love the hot sauce.
He was clearly the pinnacle of spiritual health.
So see, I was called breath of fire.
So check it out.
It's on HBO Max.
Okay.

(01:13:10):
But it's, you know, interesting.
You do have a weird obsession with like, like most people get into the like murder mysteries
or the, you know, the cold case files.
You have a weird thing for like the cult and the mind control of like, how do I con the
most amount of people into believing this weird shit that I believe?

(01:13:31):
That's true.
That's true.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing.
I'm just saying you don't want to reflect on that.
Yeah.
Maybe I'm just trying to make sure I'm not a part of one.
There you go.
There you go.
I think the interesting part is what I always find is one, I'm always curious what the grift
is.
Sure.
You know, like what's the, not every scam.
Who was the scam?
Yeah.

(01:13:51):
And yeah, who's the scam?
Right.
And then I want to see what their grift is.
How far it reaches and how bad they let it corrupt themselves, the actual people in charge
at the top of the old pyramid scheme.
Usually there's pretty, it's kind of like watching a music biopic like Elvis or like
right, some, everything was great.
He had super talent and then came the women and the drugs and the, yeah, it follows certain

(01:14:12):
beats.
Well, he got a bad deal from his manager and then the drugs came and blah, blah, you know,
they kind of follow certain beats.
But so I'm always curious what the racket is and then how far it goes away from what
usually starts as a pretty good idea in terms of some people are just being taken, you know,
like, oh, I want to reach people and then right when the money comes in, they're like,
oh, this is real profitable.

(01:14:33):
How can we then corrupt?
And the other thing that always just kind of, I guess I find interesting is that most
of the people that get wrapped up in this stuff or find themselves into it and some
of them, you know, not in this case necessarily, but some of the people get, you know, indicted
on real crimes just because they get in so deep on this stuff and don't know how to get

(01:14:53):
out.
Yeah.
Racketeering and sexual exploitation and stuff like that.
The people that get in it, you know, it's they're smart people.
They're not necessarily gullible.
And I, I would put it in the, in terms of this and stick with me on the analogy.
And I don't know if I said this last podcast or not, but if I do it bears repeating, nobody

(01:15:15):
ever sold me weed.
Like weed sold me.
I wanted the high that weed came with and I was willing to go through a facilitator
to get that.
Sure.
And I think what these people are, is there's no, nobody ever put a joint to your mouth
and was like, smoke this shit.
No, no, no, I don't mean it like that.
I mean, the weed sold me weed.
I wanted the product.
Right.

(01:15:35):
It wasn't like you needed to be a good salesman to get it.
I want to have the shit I want.
Yeah.
I'm willing to pay money for it.
Yeah.
You just happen to be the liaison or the facilitator of that thing.
And I think a lot of what it is when it comes to the more spiritual aspect of things
is that it's sometimes it's desperate people, sometimes it's whatever, but it's people that
are longing for something.
Sure.
Yeah.

(01:15:56):
And what they're looking for, they go to these classes, you know, in this case, the
yoga classes or whatever, and they start to breathe heavy and they walk away with this.
They feel elevated and like, holy shit, this is what I've been looking for.
This isn't organized religion.
And it's the thing that they've already been looking for.
Mm hmm.
Like I said, it's you're not selling.
I want the weed.
Right.
Right.
Right.
And then you are just the person.

(01:16:16):
You're the delivery method.
Yeah.
And I'm going to ride with you because I'm getting the weed I want.
And so that's really what it is.
So I think it's mostly people searching for something and letting this person stand in
the way of what it is that they want.
And then before you know it, they get taken advantage of.
Sure.
And in some cases, like I said, it's just such a slow indoctrination into compromising
immorals because you believe this person that like, man, you're right.

(01:16:39):
I have been the source of my problems.
Like when I was miserable, I was the one that was in charge.
And where did that get me?
And so they try something new and before, you know what they're being taken advantage
of, but they're not dumb people.
Most of the people that are in these things are, you know, on paper, intelligent people.
You always get suckers.
Like, sure.
You're a voter, man.
Like you're going to get some suckers.
Well, like apparently you can convince 48% of people to vote for anything.

(01:17:03):
Yeah.
So I mean, you're going to get some suckers naturally, but the people that really get
in it.
And I just I find that to be kind of fascinating in their stories in terms of like their life
before their life after.
And this idea, I think I've said it on the podcast as well before, but the slow lies
about Michael, there's an elephant behind you.
You're like, you know, fucking elephant behind me.
But I tell you that enough times that then when I say Michael, there is a pink elephant

(01:17:24):
behind you.
You go, eventually I checked behind my shoulder.
Well, no, well, yes.
But you go more than that.
You go, okay, there may be an elephant.
You've accepted the fact that there that there is an elephant, but there ain't no way that
elephant's pink.
And then I lied to Michael, that pink elephant that behind you, that pink elephant has wings
and you're like, okay, there's a pink elephant behind me, but there's no way
it has wings.
And you hear the bull.

(01:17:45):
It's the slow indoctrination.
You've accepted the elephant.
The elephant was the plausible part about it.
The pink part became more plausible.
And then you just add on to this layer of this layer of bullshit over and over and over
time.
And before you know it, you're like, it's a whole circus behind me.
You know, right?
And you're in it.
And I got shit.
It's like, uh, like an inverse, like to think I saw it on Mulberry Street or something like

(01:18:07):
that, you know, like, well, if it's a zebra, then maybe they'll believe it's a zebra and
a chariot.
And if it's a zebra and a chariot, then why isn't there an elephant and a chariot?
Why isn't there six elephants in the chariot?
You know, like, oh, but it can't be a chariot.
Let's do a whole wagon.
You know.
Yeah.
So that's, and that I think is fascinating.
If they'll buy this, imagine what they'll buy next literally.

(01:18:30):
And I mean, buy like financially.
Yeah.
Literally spend money on.
So I would rate this, um, the breath of fire video game.
And I'm going to let you come up with that.
You can come if you have to play the game and understand that one.
So, so what else have you been watching, my man?
We got, we got one big one we need to talk about.

(01:18:50):
I recreditated myself, sir, have you followed suit or do I stand alone on this mountain
of accomplishment?
You sir, do not stand alone on your mountain of accomplishment.
Well, I did not watch a movie that will help garner more faith from the listeners in terms

(01:19:11):
of did I watch some cinematic masterpiece that probably should have been seen by me
a long time ago to give myself the credit I need to possibly host a podcast.
That's feels very directed.
No, I did not.
But what I did do for my recredit today, I did live up to an obligation that I did promise
this good over a year ago.

(01:19:34):
And I finished the Netflix series Bojack Horseman.
My sir, I have questions for you.
I finished the last eight episodes.
So the last one that you had seen was approximately what episode?
Well they split season six into two halves.
And so I remember the first half came out and it was eight episodes.

(01:19:56):
And then the second half came out a couple, like a month or two later, pretty quickly
after.
And that was another eight episodes.
I saw the first episode of that second season and I was like, I'm not ready for this or
not that second season, the second half of season six.
I saw that right first episode.
Yeah.
And I just realized I was not ready for this because I just knew where it was going.

(01:20:18):
And I was very interested to see how they were going to stick the landing.
And in that process, I just restarted the show.
I know a lot of Bojack from season one through four.
Five is when it starts to pivot to something a little bit different, which I don't dislike.
It's just different.
No, but there is a very different, very definite tonal shift in that series from maybe season

(01:20:40):
four, but definitely season five.
Four when they do go silly again, they lean real heavy into silly because they just,
they gave an entire Todd episode in that one, which I really liked one of my favorite
episodes actually.
It's a Todd day.
So they, but the balance of silliness and like irreverence and like the world being

(01:21:01):
a little bit more fun to be in slowly starts to shift.
And then they really introduce it in season two when Bojack goes to New Mexico.
Not season two, the second half of, no, no, no, I'm talking, no, I'm saying season two.
So season one is very silly.
Season two is very like, it starts to get really dark and really like, Oh God, this

(01:21:23):
guy is really going to make some bad mistakes in this show by season two when he goes to
New Mexico and hangs out with Penny.
Was that season two?
Yeah.
Okay.
And so that's when it kind of ramps up and then it's just bad decisions from there.
They continually, you know, that eventually pay out months and seasons later.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(01:21:43):
And so I was really on board some of the silliness and I just like, there's an aspect
of Bojack, just the world that they do.
I liked the very quick gags.
There's a lot of giraffe jokes with people ducking necks and the way that they utilize
the animals in the world, I always thought was really funny.
And some of the jokes are just very quick in terms of just, it's a scene transition
and at the start or end of it, they're going to do an animal gag, you know, like the cheetah

(01:22:05):
being the valet and you go get them the keys and he's, you know, he runs off the, right?
It's funny stuff like that.
Right.
Or one of the valets and elephant, some dude pulls up in a compact and he just sort of
like shrugs.
He's like, yeah.
All stuff like that and I always appreciated that.
But I will say, man, I, it was good to see and I know it's not new for anybody else,

(01:22:27):
but it was good for me to see new Bojack.
Okay.
I missed the, like I was big on, on that show because I tuned in when seasons one, two and
three were already out.
Sure.
And I watched him when I was living in Maryland.
So like a little bit before, I think I started a little bit before the pandemic.
And so by the time season four came out, I was pretty much that had just came out when

(01:22:51):
I was, uh, you know, so I was kind of locked in.
So I started really locking in with it the second half, but I really fell in love with
that first three seasons.
I really, really know that and most of season four pretty well.
And then five, that was fun.
That was, that was the, the quote unquote fun episodes of Bojack.
Yeah.
And it shifts.

(01:23:12):
I wouldn't even say it's gradual, but it's definite in terms of the levity in the seriousness
of that show.
It is a slow, but definitive turn.
Like there's, there is a, there is a point where the show stops being fun and starts
to focus more on the existential crisis of the main character.
Yeah.

(01:23:33):
And it, if this, so to paint a picture real quick, it's at, if the top of the mountain
is season one and it's a lot lighter and a lot more silly, they start, they start a
snowball rolling, right?
And so there's already, you know, at the base of this hill is dead serious.
All right.
So the snowball starts to roll at the top of the hill.
So even season one, they tackle serious issues.
The guys clearly suffering from alcoholism and addiction.

(01:23:56):
Sure.
Clearly.
And you like there's narcissism, depression.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's already rolling there, but him navigating it with Todd and with his new girlfriend and
so it, you were rolling in that direction, right?
And then by the time you get to seasons five and six, it's picked up way more speed.
Right.
And so it, it is always a progression, the progression from season one, episode one to

(01:24:21):
the very end, there always is a progression towards it being more serious and more darkly
in terms of comedic tone.
Yeah.
I think it's darkly look at if I'm using that word, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
A darker tone for sure.
Yeah.
So you're making a snowball effect into an avalanche effect.
I'm, yeah.
I'm saying it picks up pace faster.
Sure.
The later you go, the faster it picks up.

(01:24:43):
Sure.
It's like, oh, the incline, the decline to this was already there, but it's just the
more of the seasons go on, the faster that ball gets rolling.
And you're like, oh, shit, we're heading, we're about to crash on the mountain.
So yeah, for sure.
But man, it was, it was good to watch new Bojack for me.
So it brought me back to, there are still things that make me very much so smile in

(01:25:04):
that show and I love the characters.
I love just the way that they interact at this point.
And so I, it was nice to revisit that after spending so much time away with anything new
to see that again and the new pickles and how they would communicate with each other
in these circumstance.
Like almost catching up like with an old friend that you haven't seen in a minute and then

(01:25:24):
they're telling you all new stories about their life that like you haven't heard yet.
Like, yeah, I remember, you know, like, I remember why we used to hang out.
Yeah.
And the callbacks they would do is they knew that this was the final, I mean, Netflix pretty
much say, hey, we're wrapping this up.
And I think the creator of the show was like, yeah, this is it.
So they knew what they were doing.
But seeing some of the, the callbacks in the fine, like the final episodes, I really enjoyed

(01:25:47):
when I thought it was very funny that Mr. Peanut Butter became the face of depression.
He was the spokesperson sad dog.
That was really, really good for me.
That's the idea that Bojack has existed as like the most depressed character probably
on television ever or one of, you know, just pivots the way that.

(01:26:09):
Well, and doesn't he build an entire show off of like an internet meme?
It's literally, it's literally just him looking at that.
Yeah.
He, yeah, he more on that in a minute.
But yeah, no, he, Mr. Peanut Butter becomes the face of depression.
And so he's sad dog for a little while.
But I like that.
And then that is very funny.
I think the show does such a good job of really playing into an extreme version of Hollywood

(01:26:36):
and just how absolutely ridiculous it is and the way that, you know, I'm not from Hollywood.
I have no, I've never worked in the business outside of this podcast, which we're coming.
Hey, so roll out the carpet.
Well, a couple of movies back in the 80s, right?
They are very hard to find and usually on a Japanese market.
They're out there though.
So they're your best.

(01:26:57):
Do you invent?
So I was pretty big in Japan.
Yeah, I forgot I was going.
I lost my train of thought with silliness.
You're talking about Mr. Peanut Butter being the face of depression and then the turn of
Bojack always being like he was consistently the most depressed person.
Yeah.
There was something else I was going to say, but whatever silliness will rule the day

(01:27:17):
today.
But yeah, they, there was a lot of callbacks that I appreciated when, oh yeah, I was saying
and talking about Hollywood, how I've never been in the business, but the show very much
so like very rarely, I think it's played out to say the city is a character in the show.
In this one, Los Angeles very much so is in Hollywood and Hollywood and just the ridiculous

(01:27:39):
notion of how people act.
And they just, it's such a send up of the industry as a whole.
And it's, it's so well done.
And just from somebody looking at from the outside in who kind of sees some of the absurdity
go on.
And then this is kind of like a way of like a super satirical look at that and how damaged
some of the people are in there that we just love blindly or we forgive blindly.

(01:28:01):
And they make fun of us, not the audience for watching the show, but followers of, you
know, like, why do we invest so much in these people?
Well, yeah, it's why do we hold these people on a pedestal?
We don't know shit about a most of them are incredibly damaged.
Most of them have more issues and we're like, but you're this we're willing to forgive you
because of that one movie you did.
It's incredibly broken people who are constantly disavowing any like acknowledgement or credit

(01:28:26):
or like love affection, like, no, no, no, I just want to be left alone.
I just want to do my art.
But yet part of doing that art is being recognized and being acknowledged and being loved by
the public.
Like if you really didn't care about, you know, who saw you and the box office numbers,

(01:28:48):
you would just go do off Broadway plays and just do it for the love of the game or like
go do community theater or something like that.
But like the fact that you're in this business and working so hard to like get that one part
that's going to get you to Oscar, get that one thing that's going to get you, you know,
into the next tax bracket or whatever, you're working so hard to just to just try and play

(01:29:11):
off as like, well, I'm just an artist and I'm just doing it because I just love the
craft like no, you don't.
You're an attention whore.
Yeah.
You are.
And like, that's OK.
But just acknowledge that you are an attention whore and that's OK.
Like you need validation.
You need the most amount of people to love you because you're broken and hollow inside.

(01:29:33):
And that's OK.
That is certainly the vast of the way you paint it.
There is certainly victims in real world that are like that.
I say victims, but, you know, whatever suffering of their own.
But I also think there's some truth to it in the sense of like who doesn't want to be
appreciated by their and recognized by their peers.
And like, you know, when I go to work or anybody goes to work, I think most people don't wake

(01:29:54):
up in the morning and give a big old stretch and they're like, well, let's be terrible
today.
You know, people want to be recognized.
So it's just the idea that it's done in Hollywood.
You're under such a microscope or you're magnified, I should say, actually, not microscope, but
you're magnified all these things.
You know, it's the final line of art artistry and all that stuff too.
But just the industry itself is just bonkers and are the forgiveness tours that people

(01:30:19):
go on.
Right.
Like the the I do the regret all my decisions.
I should not have kicked that kitten.
Yeah.
And the scrutiny we hold them to.
And that's why I'm not like anti cancer culture certainly can take things too far.
And I've talked about it on the podcast, like some of the stuff it's like, why are you even
like we hold these people accountable?
And then it's like, at what point you go, yeah, you're never allowed to your livelihood

(01:30:42):
ever again.
Right.
What?
Like chill out, man.
So it's just the whole notion is very ridiculous.
And the way they play the world of not only just Hollywood, but like the public reaction,
it's kind of South Park in a way how South Park.
Oh, it's very satirical.
Yeah.
South Park is is a place that everything is an extreme.
There is no it's for comedic effect.
Right.

(01:31:03):
It's like if the world's burning, they're like, everything's on fire.
Like, right.
It's freak out or it's nothing.
Right.
Right.
There's a little bit of that economy of those who are so invested versus those who are like,
well, this is all bullshit.
Right.
Yeah.
And that's more on that.
But they do a lot of things that they do pay off just a lot of character arcs.
I did love the fact that Mr. Peanut Butter finally got his crossover episode.

(01:31:27):
Yes.
That meant so much to me.
And he was so overwhelmed that he cried.
Is this a crossover episode?
I think it is.
Yes.
He spazs us out.
Duggy, Duggy, what now?
Yeah.
Shout out to Paul F. Tomfkins.
He's so good as Mr. Peanut Butter.
Actually, the whole cast just crushes the little crossover.
But I love the crossover episode.

(01:31:48):
I like that the two investigators that were trying to investigate Bojack's crimes and
trying to solve the problem with Penny and Sarah Lynn and stuff like that, where obviously
he did something.
Basically just trying to write a smear piece on him.
Yeah.
Just trying to get to the bottom of what happened.
They do the movie His Girl Friday, just kind of where she, that's pretty much the plot

(01:32:08):
is she's a news gal and her ex-husband or her, I don't know if ex-husband, ex-lover
is a beat writer as well.
And they work so well together and they bicker.
But she's also going to go get married in the movie.
Right.
And so she's always on the phone like, yes, darling, of course I love you.
Yeah, she's talking that in a very...
But I'm addicted to the fast life.
You have to see.
But the story is they don't write themselves and it's me.

(01:32:30):
I need to be on the ground floor and...
I'm a guy on the move.
I can't be tied down.
Yeah.
And so what she also is also hanging out with her lover who's a fellow investigative journalist.
It's a really good movie.
It's called His Girl Friday.
And that's where that whole bit came from.
And so I appreciated that.
I like it.
It's an all-time classic.
So that was really funny.
I like the fact that in the very final episode, Bojack picks up a piece of honeydew and puts

(01:32:56):
it on.
He goes, he looks at it and goes, ugh, and kind of wretches.
And then he puts it on his plate and tries it.
Not that bad.
He's been five seasons calling like garbage.
That actor is the honeydew of actors.
Like he's totally useless.
Yeah, he's like, every time a melon shows up and they get a plus one, they got to bring
their garbage friend honeydew.
It's just an ongoing bit that they've had.

(01:33:18):
And so they wrap up a couple of those, which I really appreciated.
But in terms of the character arcs, I really do think they stick the landing.
And some of it is one Margot Martindale deserves forever to be on the Watchman, Watch, and
Wall of Fame.
Fuck yeah.
Not only for this show, but this show solidifies this and her other works very much so.

(01:33:40):
But in terms of some of the character arcs, I mean, they do a really good job of that.
I like the actual plot events that happen, Bojack getting sober, Bojack relapsing.
I think this show, while it is again, they do play up to extremes.
It actually does do a really good job as a alcoholic and recovery myself.
They do a good job of they make fun of the rehab process as well.

(01:34:03):
Sure.
But it is helpful.
I mean, he does get sober there.
But it doesn't, he doesn't get sober until you notice that he wants to and the fact that
he's willing to actually do the work and want something different.
He goes to rehab for himself, not just because his agent is like, well, you got to go to
rehab if you want to salvage your career.
And he's like, all right, cool.
I'll go do 12 weeks or whatever.

(01:34:24):
Yeah, which Diane is actually the one that drops them off, which I appreciated.
But you know, he sneaks out with the girl and they kick him out.
And he's like, well, I got to come back in for another six weeks.
And that second stand around, he, you know, he does the work.
Yeah.
And so that that to me, I thought was very realistic in the fact that they do kind of
pay in a like, I know they can't because of HIPAA laws.
But if you were to ever go to a 30 day rehab facility or any kind of halfway house, it

(01:34:47):
would be a fucking reality show.
Trust me.
Shit is wild.
The stories you hear about people's arrests and like just their circumstance that got them
there and some like, you're all very, it's interesting in the fact of like, this is why
like rehab romances happen is because it just cuts through so much bullshit.
You can't go in there and be like, I'm winning and let me try to impress you girl.

(01:35:08):
You see the honest of like.
Yeah.
I'm a horrible person.
They're like me too.
I'm also a horrible person.
Yeah.
You cut through about nine dates in just by being in the same place.
So if I'm going to understand you rehab is a great place to pick up chicks.
I wouldn't recommend it is what I'll say.
But now they do a good job of that.
I think they do a pretty honest depiction overall as a series in terms of showing these

(01:35:33):
characters flaws, especially Bojack.
They do a wonderful job of showcasing his depression, showcasing Diane's relationship
with anti-depressants as well.
They do the funny bit where she treats them like Mentos and she does like silly things
like when I steal a hot dog and use a bird to get me across the street and the guy,
oh, he pops the Mentos anti-depressants.

(01:35:55):
The idea that when she said, I feel so clear on them, but I still feel so cloudy and like
she can't lock in on her passions.
That's something I really related to.
Sure.
I've been on them and that's a sacrifice she had to make of not being fucking miserable
every day.
Yeah.
She even has that great line.
I'm going to butcher it, but she says like, I'm not completely happy with myself right

(01:36:16):
now, but I'm better than I was without them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's I thought that was an honest thing.
It doesn't cure everything.
And you know, I full disclosure, I was on anti-depressants for a very long time and I learned to surrender
because I needed them at the time.
And it doesn't mean I had to be on them forever.
There's times I think I should be back on them.

(01:36:38):
Sure.
But my relationship with them is different than Diane's.
And I appreciated the fact that, you know, they didn't paint it as, it's going to cure
all your problems.
Just take the medication.
But when she came off of them without really telling anybody the withdrawal and stuff like
that, the brain, I got the brain zaps, you know, couldn't focus.
Right.
I thought that was very realistic, which I appreciated as somebody who's not only struggled

(01:36:58):
with, you know, mental health, but, you know, addiction and things like that.
It's a pretty honest look.
And I appreciated that they treated it that you can laugh at the circumstance of these
characters because they're cartoons, but they are telling an honest story.
Sure.
You know, a more human story than most.
Right.
So I appreciated that.

(01:37:18):
Taylor Tomlinson, the stand-up comedian, has a great bit where she talks about like,
anti-depressants are like your water wings, you know, your duck floaties, your armed duck
floaties.
Like, you can't swim.
You can't go in the deep end of the pool.
And like having depression is just like being able, not being able to swim.
Like it's your problem, but when you do it in the wrong situation, it becomes everybody's

(01:37:44):
problem.
And so if you just put on your duck floaty wings, you can swim in the deep end or at
least not have everybody worry about, oh my God, she's swimming in the deep end once
again.
Not have to work so hard at staying afloat.
Yeah, exactly.
So like it's not that you're incomplete without them.

(01:38:05):
They're just helping you be your better self.
Yeah.
No, and I agree with that.
And you know, of course, I'm butchering the bit, but no, I got you though.
I think it's a good analogy personally.
And I just, again, I appreciated the fact that it was an honest look at them.
And in terms of like the characters and where they end up, I like the fact that Princess

(01:38:28):
Carolyn when asked when Bojack visits from prison when he gets out after breaking in
the dude's house when the episode of you from halfway down, we'll get that in a moment.
At the end, you know, Bojack, there's a world where Bojack and Princess Carolyn, like they
do love each other.
She said like, you're the big dummy I fell in love with you when you're young and stupid

(01:38:51):
like that.
That's the that's your one shot at the true love.
And I know offense.
I kind of wasted it on you.
I wasted those years on you.
And he's like, hey, none taken.
I mean, I don't in a weird way.
I love you too, Princess Carolyn.
You know, yeah, yeah, it's it's there.
It's one of those in a weird way.
They almost reconcile in terms of like, we're better friends than we ever were lovers.

(01:39:12):
And like, that's a hard pill to swallow sometimes in terms of like, fuck, this is the one girl
for me.
She's always understood me.
She's always like, oh, yeah, well, that's why you guys are great friends.
Like you're both toxic to each other in a relationship, but you can call in and check
in with each other once in a while.
That's that's not that doesn't have to be the end all be all of your relationship.
The story that Bojack tells or that Princess Carolyn says to Bojack, hey, you know, you

(01:39:36):
were drunk one time when we first met and, you know, you're really sick and I'll say
can care of you.
And you had said something to me in the moment of, please don't go.
You make every room I'm in more good.
And now I'm trying to get good.
And it was something very close to that.
And I appreciated that line of, you know, and that really meant a lot to her.
At the very end, when he does get out of, you know, he's he's on visitation for prison,

(01:39:58):
well, he's allowed to go to a wedding, Princess Carolyn's.
And he asked, hey, when I get out of prison, would you feel okay representing me again
as my agent?
And she says, I can recommend some wonderful people, right?
As such a good line of like, let's let's both get off this merry-go-round.
Right.

(01:40:18):
I love you to death.
Let's let's just get off the merry-go-round.
This service has reached its particular end.
Yeah.
And there's a lot of things that are, they pay full homage to, which some of it I didn't
even notice the first thing that, you know, is not this, the final eight episodes or whatever.
But the first thing that Herb Kazaz says to Bojack is he gives him shit when he gets
on stage in his first words to Herb Kazaz or die of cancer.

(01:40:41):
Sure enough, that's the fate of Herb Kazaz, which is, you know, terrible.
First words out of his mouth in his character.
Todd is still my favorite.
I love him.
And the fact that he finds an asexual partner, that meant a lot to me.
I thought I was very romantic, but asexual at one point in my life.
I just had zero interest in it.

(01:41:02):
Maybe it was the antidepressants.
I don't know.
But I just had zero interest in it, but still liked people, you know, wanted to still like
dating and stuff like that.
Yeah.
I think that of all the people in that series, he really goes on the most dynamic character
arc in terms of he goes from, you know, just being some dude who sleeps on Bojack's couch

(01:41:22):
because he's got nowhere else to go.
He becomes an entrepreneur.
He finds out he's a little upwards.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But but he fails upwards honestly.
Like there's never there's never a point where Todd does things maliciously, even when
he falls out with Bojack and he's just like, dude, like I've tried to justify being your

(01:41:44):
friend.
I've tried to justify your actions to other people and I just have to realize you're a
shitty person and you need.
Yeah.
The scene you need to be better.
Yeah.
Say all these things.
You come say you're sorry.
Like you need to be better.
You can't just apologize it all away.
Like, oh, me a culpa.
Like you need to actively try to not do the things that make you a shitty person in the

(01:42:04):
first place.
And he sort of walks away from that relationship and then they end up rebuilding it.
But it's never the same.
It's never just like it's never Bojack looking down on Todd.
It's Todd realizing like, oh, the reason I was with this person for so long is because
he was so broken that it made my life easier.

(01:42:26):
And now that my life is finally being successful, that's becoming the anchor around my neck.
It's starting to drag me down.
It's starting to really affect my upward progression.
That's a phenomenally said.
And the funny part about Todd is he always.
If he was a piece on a board, his his piece, not just in terms of, I don't know about character

(01:42:48):
arc, but in terms of where he goes and what he does in terms of just plot events, his
has the most movement on the board.
Oh, yeah.
He always comes back to square one of like, he makes $10 million and accidentally tips
somebody $10 million.
Oh, well, that is what it is.
His piece on the board moves the most in terms of what he does.
And that's why I really like Todd.

(01:43:10):
The other thing, though, and just kind of quickly is there's so many themes in it.
But what I do like is that no one of these no one of these characters is solved by the
end of it.
Like their flaws.
There's a new set of problems for some of them.
And I really like the fact that they do that.
Like again, no one's flaws are just like solved.

(01:43:32):
They're they're working at things constantly.
It's it's, Hey, what are you going to do?
You got to be better.
Okay, let's be better.
And I also do like the fact that there's so much there's a few time gaps, excuse me, like
time jumps in terms of like the chronology of the story.
Right, right.
It picks up six months after he's been in prison.
It's three months after he got out of rehab or what happened.

(01:43:54):
Yeah.
And there's a bunch of skips.
So it's like, oh, now he's a semester and they do that more in this than any at any
other point in the series.
And I do like the fact that the very end when he is visiting from from prison or whatever,
he gets the weekend off or out on a good leave.
They very much so touch on the fact of like, Hey, there were all still friends.

(01:44:14):
But like, and just in my personal life, there's some people that I was die hard friends with
for five years, saw them every day, love them, you know what I mean?
And then it's just that that phase in your life.
You just don't, you just outgrow each other.
And it's not a knock and Diane kind of says that at the very end of like, Hey, Hey, could
you imagine if this is the last time we ever spoke to each other, Diane?

(01:44:35):
And she just kind of looks like, Yeah, yeah, I can.
Like I've moved to Houston.
I'm a new person in in Tallahassee or in Texas.
And I, you know, right, I had this whole I had a boyfriend outside of you.
Yeah.
I moved down to there with my boyfriend who guess what, isn't even my boyfriend anymore,
but I'm still there because I like who I am there.

(01:44:56):
You know, and it's, and there's something to be said for that.
And I like the fact that they touch on even if this just window, this however long this,
the story of Bojack Horseman takes place, however many years, everyone just in terms
of their relationship is so vastly different.
You know, there's no status quo reset.
And you kind of look at it as like, maybe this was just the tale of these people at

(01:45:16):
this time in their life and how they weave beyond this.
I don't know.
Who knows.
Yeah.
It's kind of open up for interpretation.
Like who knows, you know, Bojack might go right back to everything that got him in trouble
in the first place or maybe Princess Carolyn finally decides, you know, this marriage isn't
worth it.
And, you know, I adopted this kid.
What the fuck am I doing?
Like, who knows?
Who knows?

(01:45:37):
Like that's sort of the, that's sort of the whole grift of the show is life is ever-evolving
and you can't necessarily control all the factors that come at you.
But a note I have life happens.
Yeah.
You can.
The only part that you're responsible for in your life is how you react to the things

(01:45:58):
that come at you.
And you can do it with grace and nobility and, you know, or play the victim or whatever.
Yeah, whatever you do, angry about it or fall into devices and use that as a as a blame
for everything that's wrong in your life.
It's all up to you.
It's you are the author of your own story.

(01:46:19):
And it's not necessarily.
It's not necessarily wrong in the decisions that you make, because even the bad decisions
get due to where you are.
As long as you learn something from it, as long as you walk away, one chapter richer,
one piece of knowledge, more intelligent about more, you know, how do I take this pebble

(01:46:47):
in my shoe and turn it into a story of triumph?
When you lose, don't lose the lesson.
That's what the Dalai Lama said.
That's very well.
But clearly, I agree with.
I just.
There's an overall theme and you were talking about that at the very end.

(01:47:07):
And this is kind of, I'm just going to talk about a couple themes of Bojack that really
stood out to me.
And they, some of them conflict, certainly.
He'd be like, how do you get that and that?
But you know, it's a deep show.
Such is life.
Yeah.
And sometimes conflicting lessons.
Right.
And I think that is just, I appreciate Diane's willingness to leave things in the past,
you know, at the very end.

(01:47:27):
She's just like, like I said, is this what I imagine this is the last time we talk.
And she's like, yeah, I'm willing to.
Right.
It very well made.
And it's not no hard feelings, no whatever.
But look, there's a lot.
We have a rich history.
Cool.
That history is always going to be what it is.
But there is something about being present.
And that's one of the themes of it by the end of it, the final season, I would say.
Certainly the last episode where they just sit around at the end.

(01:47:50):
Bojack and Diane on the roof was the first place they met as well.
And they just.
It's all very circular.
Like a lot of the themes in the last episode can be touched in on like the first episode.
Yeah.
They just say this is nice.
That's all it is.
And they just sit there looking out over the landscape.
It's a nice night.
And they just sit there in silence and enjoying it.
And it's not just present.

(01:48:11):
Fade to black.
That's it.
Yeah.
The one though, there's a couple themes I just want to talk about.
And again, they conflict is one.
Largely.
People are shitty.
And I think Bojack expresses that sometimes people are just shitty.
Yep.
And he takes that out on himself and he punishes himself, which I can relate to that.
He's.
Well, yeah.

(01:48:32):
And I also said to have the very real.
It's also this weird dichotomy of like, especially just from me.
And I think also from a point of Bojack is like, I hate myself.
Like I really do.
But I'm constantly amazed that I seem to be the smartest person in the room.
So if I hate myself as much as I do, imagine what I think about you.

(01:48:56):
And that's a really shitty way to be.
But like.
I it's this weird self deprecation of like, I know I'm a shit person, but in a weird way,
I'm also the best person I know.
And I don't mean that egotistically.
It's it's I think it's a psychological thing.
I mean, that is ego.
It is.
It's the it's the whole thing that Bojack is what most addicts alcohol.

(01:49:18):
And I'm not saying this, but like in terms of relation to the show, most addicts, alcoholics
and stuff like that.
Bojack is so bitingly sardin on his.
He always says, you this is stupid.
That's stupid.
Right.
This is stupid and then himself included.
But he's an ego maniac with an inferiority complex.
Yeah.
It was really what it is.
Yeah.
And so he has this air superiority that, you know, he suffers from.

(01:49:40):
Yeah.
People to go back to the original one of the themes I thought was just people are shitty.
And then, you know, we just as human beings.
And I don't mean this like, oh, you're a bad person.
It's just we just do shitty things.
And there's not always a reason for that.
We do it.
We just he has this beautiful soliloquy about like we do.
I don't know if I'm good or bad.
We do these things in our brain that when we press that button in our brain, it goes,

(01:50:01):
oh, yeah, I'm getting this.
And that's what we react to.
It's, you know, and I'm butchering what Bojack says, but he has a whole line about it when
he's being interviewed for the the tank piece or whatever.
Right.
Right.
And the other thing about it is just life happens.
And I don't think that's just so much of this show where it just in this show is very much

(01:50:21):
so is it your mom's fault?
Like are you ultimately responsible for it?
And they talk about big time and and alcoholics and anonymous and other places about like,
yeah, you're powerless over your addiction and Bojack 10 look, well, I was powerless
over this and not that in the third.
And there is so much of that.
That's true.
But at what point do you take responsibility for that?
Go?
Yes, I was powerless over those things.
And I surrendered the fact that they happened or I am powerless over the fact that I cannot

(01:50:46):
drink or do this as a normal human being when I ingest these things.
But at a certain point, you do need to take responsibility.
Sure.
It's not just surrendering to anything and everything and all circumstance.
Well, I'm I'm a leaf in the wind and whatever whatever blows me, I just have to take it.
Like, no, you you you decide how you want to stand in the stream.
Yeah, no, that's a great great way to put that.

(01:51:07):
But this show really indicates that just life happens.
You know, bad up down.
Your friends get sick.
You make poor decisions.
Some people are going to forgive you.
Some people aren't like, yeah.
And the I just like the idea of Bojack thinking like when he was his point was when he was
talking about the power over women and he went on his classic Bojack tangents about

(01:51:27):
like, I don't think people are pulling these machinations to like try to be evil or try
to exert power or anything.
I think people just do shit and and there's something to be said for that.
Although there are people that are definitely.
He was he was just saying the largest like people are just reactive of what's going on
like life happens and we're going to navigate it really shittily sometimes.

(01:51:47):
And in the process, people are going to be shitty whether they mean to or not.
Another one is just like I said, be present.
That was a big a big theme by it.
And I think so much of the show what Bojack was trying to learn was he was and they make
a long winded thing about the blueprint of your past is going to forge your present for
your you know, but ultimately kind of the more simpler term we heard in other programs

(01:52:13):
is you know, if you have one leg in the past and one leg in the future, you're just pissing
all over today kind of thing.
And it's just it's very much so like that if we're so crippled by our past, but so afraid
of our future, can we even be present?
And yeah, it's interesting.
It's you know, we are built from where we are today.
We would not be where we are today if it was not for the past and you know, certainly we're

(01:52:37):
not prepared for our future.
And no, that's that's an interesting perspective.
Again, not to turn it all about me.
No, I like talking about these movies and how they relate to us and our thought process.
I spend so much time focused on the regrets of the past in terms like, oh, if I had if
I hadn't fucked this up or if I'd only just taken this a little bit more seriously or

(01:52:58):
if I had just said this to this person at this time or you know, you know, like you
I tend to stay awake at night and run scenarios through my head, like have whole arguments
with people that never existed.
And it ruins my day or it pisses me off or completely changes my mood.
And then I spend the other half of my time so worried about like, I can't fuck this

(01:53:20):
next thing up and like, well, coming up in the next week, I got, you know, in the next
week, I've got XYZ, ABC, and so how do I organize that in my head?
And like, I'm so consistently worried about like, regrets of the past and the anxiety
of the future that I find myself just never it's hard for me to sit around and just be
like, yeah, but today was a good day, you know, like today, I got to sleep in or like

(01:53:46):
work wasn't that hard or like, yeah, work was hard, but I handled it like a champ or
like whatever.
Yeah.
I mean, it's a skill set and it's something that despite everything, I was like, you know,
I sit there and so I can't meditate, I can't meditate, my brain goes too fast.
I don't practice it enough.
Sure.
Sure.
I don't practice, no different than anything.
I can't ride a bike.
Well, how much time do you spend trying to learn?
Oh, well, like I spend it for 10 minutes and then I try it 10 minutes once a year.

(01:54:09):
You're like, yeah, you're probably not going to get good at it.
Sure.
Yeah, yeah.
Same thing with being present.
It's, it's, you have to like, you know, and it's, it sounds also played out, but I
think this show really does talk about the importance of that and being in it and not
punishing yourself so much for the past.
And it's a fine line to walk of like, for me personally, I have things in my life going
on where I, I can't sit around and just, you know, what is it, flagellate yourself?

(01:54:34):
What is it?
Yeah, flagellate.
Yeah.
Where you just sit there and punish yourself or whatever for, for your misdeeds.
So to sit there and go, God, that, that was so effed up what I did and to sit there and
hold myself against it to the point where I'm drowning by it is not helpful.
But also what's not helpful is for me at least, or what I feel, I don't feel right doing is

(01:54:55):
just going like charging at the game.
Well, I fucked up and I'm going to let my ego just bury that one and not learn.
And so it's fine.
Well, you know me, I'm a Pisces.
Yeah.
We're not just that, but just saying like, no, it's in the past, which is a good way
to look at things.
But for me, it's like, if I don't live in it for a little bit, man, like I'm just
because you're over the scars of the past doesn't mean that doesn't mean that the people

(01:55:15):
that affected are necessarily also over it.
I mostly just mean like, what's the fine line of me feeling bad about it and actually showing
that I have compassion and a fucking conscience and the point of me moving forward and going,
well, I won't let that burn.
That's the final.
Conscious positivity.
Yeah.
Where does that come in?
And sense of like, do I need to learn the lesson?

(01:55:35):
And yeah, I'm a piece of shit, but I could do better.
You did a shitty thing and you probably need to feel shitty about it.
Okay.
That's your conscience telling you, yeah, you need to experience this and not just
bury this.
But at the same time, like living in that is really unhealthy.
Right.
And also going like, well, you know, it is what it is, dog.
And just moving on.
I'm not capable of that.
So I often spend too long on the previous and just kick the shit out of myself for way

(01:55:59):
longer than I need to.
Yeah.
So it was a lot of self forgiveness in this show, man.
And it's, it's, it's one of the best shows I've ever seen.
Yeah.
It's top tier for me.
And I've watched a fair amount of TV.
At least.
No, no.
What did you think of the penultimate episode of you from halfway down where, where Bojack

(01:56:22):
finally has his almost meets his tragic demise and the entire episode takes place in, I
guess, purgatory or his mind or whatever, where he's just dealing with the deaths of
the people around him, you know, his mom, uh, cracker Jack, uh, Sarah Lynn, God, who
else is in there?

(01:56:42):
Um, Zach Braff, Zach Braff for some reason, which I loved, like, he died in the, uh, the
fracking episode, the underground episode.
Oh, did he?
Yeah.
He was set to flames.
Yeah.
Oh, I don't remember that.
That's a great episode.
That's when they started getting a little bit silly.
And then, uh, oh, secretary who, who's also his dad for some reason, for some reason is
his dad.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(01:57:02):
Um, what did you think?
I think it lived up to the hype.
I've, I've heard nothing but phenomenal things about that being one of the better.
Once the season, they found a formula where either be the free churro episode or, um,
in this one, it was a view from halfway down.
I'm trying to, I know I'm missing the underwater episode was really good.
Yeah.
No, I just mean where they, they do a completely impactful, like this is, oh, what was the

(01:57:24):
one where it ends with like, just tell me I'm good, Sarah Lynn.
Am I good?
Yeah.
That one.
Yeah.
They always have one of those, um, kind of a one off, like very, this is just, we're
taking it there, but this was very much so, oh, the times era, Marchesford is the one.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Another one where they kind of focus on, they tell us the flashback of his, yeah, they
do one of those later in the, in the series, but this one, I had heard.

(01:57:46):
Oh yeah.
The one where we actually learn who, um, oh, what's his sister's name?
Uh, Oh, Holly Hawk.
Holly Hawk.
Yeah.
We're, we're, we spend half the episode thinking that it's Bo Jack's daughter and then we go
into flashbacks from his mom, we find out like, Oh, there's some weird shit going on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so, um, yeah.

(01:58:06):
So they do episodes like that.
So in terms of those, I think it's one of the better ones.
I respect the free churro episode because it's just literally will our net speaking for
25 minutes.
It's a monologue.
It's a monologue that is a master class.
Yeah.
It's incredible.
Um, I think this one is the best of the type.
So it really did live up to the hype.
I was, I had her, Oh, the view from halfway down, view from halfway down.

(01:58:29):
It was Emmy nominated.
I, you know, I think the tweet after from will our net was, I think it's fitting that
Bo Jack, the show never won an Emmy.
So right.
They kind of deserve one sort of fits the character a little bit.
Yeah.
The whole theme of the show.
Um, no, I, but I really liked it and not just because I like when the artists get to
play, obviously when the world comes crashing down around him and they get to have the black

(01:58:51):
ooze leaky out of everything.
Like that was fun for the artists to do.
The creeping death.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The, the encroaching blackness of ending.
Yeah.
And the herb cause as, as the host with the most does a phenomenal job.
Oh, Brandon T. Jackson, shout out to him is also in it as, um,
Quarterway Jackson, quarterway Jackson.
Thanks.
Yeah.

(01:59:11):
Thank you.
Yeah.
Shout out to Brandon T. Jackson, friend of the show.
First ever underrated wall of famous performance.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, no, I think herb cause as has some phenomenal dialogue in that that they wrote for the character.
For sure.
And the idea that he goes, he's asking him clearly he's that they reveal later that he's
drowning in a pool.
Bojack in the, in the real world is drowning in a pool.

(01:59:34):
And they go, does anyone ever leave this place?
And he said, Herb says to Bojack, buddy, this is no place.
This is just the things that your brain thinks it needs to show you before you get out of
here.
Will someone come and save you from the pool?
Maybe, maybe not.
Either way, just sit down and enjoy the show.
That's like, dang man.

(01:59:54):
I love the allegory of they're on stage and they're giving one last performance.
And yet there's that door that's slightly off stage and it's constantly pulling them
into it.
And then once they get pulled into that doorway, their show is over.
Yeah.
And they had that really great moment where Herb is standing in front of the doorway and

(02:00:18):
the black ooze is sort of leaking out and its tendrils is reaching out to him and pulling
him in.
And as it's reaching him, it's slowly pulling him away and he's fading out.
And Bojack says like, well, I guess this is it Herb.
I mean, I guess I'll see you on the other side.
And Herb goes, Oh Bojack, you don't get it, man.
There is no other side.

(02:00:39):
This is it.
And then he just gets pulled in.
Nothing.
It's a hell of a scene.
And you also notice something that happened.
Everybody else went into the door swiftly.
And what did Herb cause as die of cancer and he was slow and he was slowly pulled apart
and away.
Yeah.
And that was like, damn.
I also love the little nuance of they're having the dinner around the table and they're all

(02:01:01):
talking about like their favorite moments in life.
Best and worst was the game.
The best and worst.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if you notice they're all eating what their last meal was like Bojack has, he's
he's constantly getting a glass of water and it tastes like chlorine.
Meanwhile, he's eating a plate full of pills.
His mom is eating tapioca pudding and mushed peas and I didn't notice that.

(02:01:23):
Horterae Jackson is just eating a lemon.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Sarah Lynn is eating the whatever the in and out burger or the fast food joint.
Yeah.
Before they went to the observatory, you know, I didn't notice that.
Good.
I got it.
Or whoever pointed that out or whatever you did.
Yeah.
Good.
Good job on that one.
Yeah, I mean, in terms of a penultimate episode, it's it's pretty damn good.

(02:01:47):
And like I said, I don't want to sit there and it's good.
It's good.
But it really lives up to the hype.
I thought it told a story that did justice to the characters.
I thought it gave Bojack in terms of if that was it, the closure that could have been necessary
for him.
But then he wakes up and he goes to jail.
And started the next episode in a weird way.

(02:02:08):
That episode is all about the characters facing death and sort of the finality of like, what
does it all mean?
And so in a weird way to not end the series on that, but like, well, how do we continue
life?
You know, like he ultimately gets saved, you know, somebody comes home and pulls him from

(02:02:29):
the pool.
And so he's at the last moment, brought back from that doorway.
And so to end the show, not on the death of a character, but well, how does this character
continue to live?
It's strange and it's off putting.
And at first I wasn't really satisfied with it.
But in the same breath, I can't think of like, well, of course, that's how it has to end,

(02:02:51):
of course, because if you die, then that's it for you.
Like you don't get to see how your story ends.
But if you get to live, maybe you get to write your own ending.
The song, the song that Sarah Lynn sings inside this, wherever this place is inside Bojack's
mind in this episode is actually a really deep one.

(02:03:13):
And she's saying like, pardon him, there's been a lot of trigger warnings this episode.
But ultimately like, Hey, if you take your own life, you can live forever.
You kind of, if you end a certain way, let me say you can, you can live forever than
just wither on till you're 80 and just be that guy that was on that one show that one
time.
Take, take your final curtain call.
Yeah.
And it was.
Yeah.

(02:03:34):
That was a really powerful scene.
And, but yeah, to go back to your point though, it is very much so.
Yes.
He gets to go on and continue living.
And like I said, life happens.
He gets out and it's not like, Oh, thank God for life.
And it looked like the person who's home he broke into, which is his former house.
The dad got him out of the pool.
It's his wife, which he had no business to do.

(02:03:56):
So again, I say, like people are shitty and it's like people do shitty things, but people
are also decent out there too.
And I think the fact that he just goes to prison and they ask him, like, what'd you
do?
He's like, well, technically he was breaking an entering, but I feel like I did a lot more
shit like it was for everything.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I thought that was very fitting in terms of, and they do another, like I said, a time

(02:04:18):
jump to just kind of show him these 10 months in prison.
They do a quick like recap of everything that happened, him going to court, him getting
sued, him getting this, you know, and it was just the Bo Jack smear campaign continued.
And all I can do is take it on the chin.
And that's really when it, this is like a lot of my issue with a lot of things is at
what point do we hold people to the flame?

(02:04:40):
And that's what Princess Carolyn said to bring it back to Hollywood at the end.
He's like, it's the best thing and worst thing about this town is people love to forget.
Right.
People, you know, they'll forget you for being awesome to, you know, even if you didn't do
anything, I'll just forget about you because you're not the hot thing, but also you do
something, you're a hot thing and you do something terrible.
Well, they'll forget about that and love to forgive you.
So it's the best thing and worst thing about this town.

(02:05:01):
I love the dynamic that from episode one, it's Bo Jack trying to break out from like
just being a television star back in the, you know, a sitcom star back in the nineties,
you know, and he's trying to build his career and build this reputation as a credible actor
and somebody whose work has value and meaning.
And then in the end, he's just relegated back to sitcom star, but it's silly jackass sitcom

(02:05:26):
star.
Like he, what is it like magic unicorn?
The horny, horny unicorn unicorn, whatever it is.
So it's, it's in a weird way.
His career continues, but in an even less dignified manner.
And he's okay with that.
He's just like, Hey, I'm still making the thing that I like.
They're paying me for it.
Yeah.
Another opportunity will arise.
I'm going to, I'm going to run this, you know, this series until it reaches its conclusion.

(02:05:50):
And then I'll find the next gig and the next gig and the next gig until they don't want
me anymore.
In which case, who knows.
So much.
And like I said earlier, no characters flaws has been resolved by the end of this.
Todd Chavez, when he watches, when he brings Bojack down to watch the fireworks on the
beach on the last episode, Bojack starts to kind of do his Bojack thing and freak out

(02:06:12):
a little bit.
And he's like, well, you know, when I relapsed that was so bad.
And then I had to do, he goes, yeah, and then you got clean again.
His joke was about the hokey pokey.
And he was like, he said the turnaround, that's what it's all about.
He goes, everyone puts, they got the song wrong.
You put your left foot in your right foot in.
You try, you try, you try, you try.
You do the hokey pokey.
He said, and then you turn yourself around and that's what it's all about.

(02:06:33):
And he said, you turn yourself around and he started to, you know, put that in terms
of Bojack's life of, well, I relapsed.
And then he said, and then you turned it around.
And then I did.
And he turned around.
And then you almost won an Oscar and then you got the chance of a lifetime and then
you played secretariat.
Fuck that up.
And then he says, then you got away with it.
And then you had to pay for it.
Like it's all.

(02:06:54):
He said, well, what if I relapsed again?
And he goes, then you'll get sober again.
And he just, his Todd's attitude saved the day in that moment of just like, yeah, man,
it's almost stoicism, but it's stoicism and doesn't fit because stoicism is just like,
ah, well, it is what it is.
You know, it's positive stoicism in terms of like, yeah, you're down now, but play

(02:07:15):
one more hand.
Maybe you'll get up.
Yeah.
You know.
And if you end up busting out of the casino, fuck it, go to another casino.
Yeah.
No, try luck somewhere else.
Like I said, Todd's piece on the board certainly has the most movement.
So to answer your question, though, I really liked the view from halfway down.
I thought I'm not going to try to just do all the monologues and the poignant writing.

(02:07:38):
It's phenomenally written very well.
The art sings on it.
The point of it all is a little heavy handed, but with good, good reason that they did it
that way.
I think so.
I think it's intentionally heavy handed.
Yeah.
No, I don't mean it has a shot.
It's a good thing.
It's heavy handed, but with a message.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a really lay it on.
Hey, this is what it's all about.

(02:07:58):
You know.
Yeah.
And so now, cursed with this knowledge, what are you going to do?
Bojack, you're going to go to jail and you're going to pay your debt to society.
And that's the first thing you're going to do.
That's where we all got to start, man.
Pay that pennance.
But no, I dug it.
And in terms of the landing, what do you think?
Do you think they stuck the landing on the show?
Again, when I first watched it, I felt that the final episode was a little bit superfluous.

(02:08:23):
I think that ending it on him dying and then sort of the impact of his life as the as the
final episode would have worked.
But I don't know that it would have worked better.
I think it's just a different option.
Like it's that's how I would have written it.

(02:08:43):
Who knows if that would be good, bad, indifferent.
But again, the I in a weird way, we got the ending we got.
And so like in a weird way, it fits and I'm not mad about it.
Yes, I would have loved to have done something different.
But so would Bojack.
So would everybody else.

(02:09:03):
And so that's sort of the point is like you're left with what you're left with.
What do you do?
Perfectly said.
I think I think it did stick the landing.
I personally would have been a little bit disappointed if it just ended on his death
because then it would have driven home too much to the point of it's all meaningless.
And it's like.
And there's not.
I'm not saying it's wrong, right?
It's not.

(02:09:23):
It just I wouldn't have resonated right with me.
And I'm not saying it would have also not if it would have ended on a happy note and
going, well, he got out of jail and everything's all better.
That wouldn't have fit the show either.
I think they did a good job.
And I'm sure there was a lot of talk in the writers room about what do we do with Bojack?
Like in a weird way, do we kill him or what do we do if we bring him back?
What's the point in that?

(02:09:43):
Like in a weird way, you almost have to sort of end it on a flat note.
Yeah.
Or not a flat note, but like you can't end it on a high.
You can't end it on a low.
You just kind of you have to end it on a like and then.
Yeah.
Our characters are changed in some ways.
They're still the exact same in some ways.
They're just in different places in different circumstance.

(02:10:05):
Again, this this show, Life Happens.
Right.
And like, are they are they going to continue to do these things or what?
Clearly Bojack has a want to do better.
It's the one thing we've learned.
He's put more stock into the him he wants to do better and is actually putting effort
into it.
You can want all you all you want, but he has the willingness to do something about

(02:10:25):
it, which is different character as opposed to just sticking to the same routine.
And I think there's a version of everybody that wants to be different or wants to find
what they were looking for.
But yet, you know, there's a version of that show where Princess Carolyn runs away with
Bojack at the end and they go Bojack, you know, does the same shit or whatever it may
be.

(02:10:45):
It completes there or continues the cycle.
Yeah, there's a version where each one of those happens and it wouldn't each one of
them could have been true to the character.
So I like the fact that they just go, yeah, man, all of our characters are just in a different
place now.
Yeah.
I think that the the whole tone of the show can be summed up.
If you remember the very final episode of season one where Bojack decides like he's

(02:11:09):
going to get healthy, he's going to start running, whatever.
And he goes on this run up the hill and he makes it maybe 50 feet and he's just collapsing
and he's breathing hard and he's having a heart attack and whatever.
And the the runner who's been passing back and forth in front of his house every single
episode that whole season just comes up to him and helps him up and goes, hey, here's

(02:11:29):
the thing about running.
It gets easier, but you got to do it every day.
And I think that that sort of beautifully encapsulates the entire theme or motive of
that show is like, you can do better, you can be better, but you got to do it every

(02:11:51):
day.
That's a perfect way to say my final note that I had in the sense of it's much.
It's much easier said than done in the consistency with it.
I've always said in my life.
One can be perfection is attainable.
Perfection is not sustainable.
If you ask me to come here and sit in this chair for 10 minutes, I can do that perfectly.

(02:12:14):
If you ask me to sit in this chair perfectly still for 10 minutes every day, I'm going
to, you know what I mean?
Right.
Or 10 hours or whatever.
Yeah, I can do things.
It's it's I can.
Perfection can be attained.
It can't be sustained.
But what so when I say all that to say that there's so much of this show is what you choose
when Bojack choose to be negative and view things a certain way.

(02:12:35):
That's what he got.
And when he chooses to, I think part of the show is like you have to choose this happiness
and it doesn't mean that you're just going to find it just because you seek doesn't mean
that you're going to, but you have to choose it.
You have to make a conscious decision and to go back to, you know, show or movies like
everything everywhere all at once.
Like the fight that it takes to choose empathy, to choose understanding, to choose your version

(02:12:58):
of happiness, to try to fight for it.
Even if it is like the fake it till you make it thing, you can't you do eventually run
out and those fumes where you do come crashing down, but you have a choice in that.
Like you said earlier, whatever happens, you're only responsible for what you do.
Can anybody make you feel a certain way?
Absolutely.
If you do something to my daughter, you're going to make me feel a certain way.
Sure, sure, sure.

(02:13:19):
I know nobody can make you feel anything.
That's bull crap.
It's bull crap.
If you do something, if you came in here and harm Michael right now, you would make me feel
a certain way.
What I choose to do with those feelings is on me.
Nobody is responsible for that except for me.
So if I choose to take things in life, I'm going to get out, you know, the whole reap
what you sow thing, but it's just what the show really encapsulates.
So well, is it's really hard, right?

(02:13:40):
You know, when you start to be positive and you can't see positive.
Yeah.
And this show really is like, yes, this is you do have a choice.
You do have to choose to make these things happen.
But boy, we understand trust me.
Right.
We get it.
We ain't saying it's easy.
We're saying it's attainable.
So that's pretty much all I got on it.
It says they did stick the landing in my eyes and I still love it.

(02:14:02):
I probably won't be.
I'll still stick with with seasons one through four.
Sure.
Mostly, you know, just just me personally.
That's what I like the most, but I also have the most familiarity with that.
But I have nothing.
I love the series.
I just one of my favorite television shows of all time.
That's you choosing the positivity.

(02:14:23):
That's that's you going like, yeah, let's just remember the happy times.
And I still skip a lot of episodes.
When he goes to New Mexico, I'm like, no, a certain episode where they light off the
glow sticks and stuff.
No.
When Sarah Linda is a note when this episode.
No.
See, I don't know.
And in a weird way, that's the stuff that I crave.
Like those are the episodes that I really as much as I love the silliness.

(02:14:44):
I love the really darker, more empathetic episodes because to me, that sort of it elevates
the art of the silliness.
Like, yes, we can do the silly animal puns and movie puns.
You know, where Princess Carolyn is talking about, you know, when Harry met Tabby, right,

(02:15:04):
right.
Or yeah, Hoy Palloy, Boy Toy makes good in in in foinoy.
You know, like, right, right.
But those things are fun and amicable.
And but it's really the depths and the low points that I really connect with, you know,
the churro episode, the view from halfway down the the Sarah Lynn episode, you know, just

(02:15:27):
his voice when he breaks when, you know, he's talking to Sarah Lynn about, you know, I
think sometimes just we do this because we just want attention and Bojack wants to be
loved for sure.
And she just doesn't respond in the whole like Sarah Lynn, Sarah Lynn.
And you find out about the 17 minute wait.
And it's like, you could have potentially saved you know, the mom, you could have saved

(02:15:50):
our daughter's life.
Right, right, right, right.
Made a mistake there, Woody.
So no, I dig it.
I don't want to sit there and say how much I loved it.
But this is I really love the show.
I'm glad you finally got to see it.
Did I get re-accredited, Michael?
I think so, sir.
I think I think if I'm going to stand atop this mountain, if you didn't achieve it,
I'm tell you what, at least help you pull.

(02:16:10):
I'll pull you up with me.
I appreciate that.
Well, I have to go watch Gladiator next year.
Or Titanic, one of the other millions or the thing.
So much, so much Americans like them.
Right as in at what you've been watching.
I should probably watch Clerks, finally.
Yeah.
Michael's going to lie and be like, I haven't seen this movie.
Wink!
Just so we can watch it again.

(02:16:30):
Who is this Kevin Smith character I hear so much about?
But yeah, right as in at what you've been watching podcast at gmail.com.
Hit us up in the, you know, the comment sections.
Comment sections, you know, sliding those DMs on either Instagram or Facebook Messenger
or whatever.
We try to be pretty good about responding.
Try to be.
Try to be.
But let us know if you got a movie that we've mentioned on here that you've heard one of

(02:16:52):
us say like, I haven't seen that.
And you think that is adding to the great discreditation.
Erroneous.
Erroneous.
Then let us know.
We'll try to get a watch.
It might take two years, but I will say conceptually, just just for the timeline sake.
And then we'll get out of here.
The timeline sake of us doing a podcast for a year and trying to like gain some sort of

(02:17:14):
confidence in our listeners.
Credibility.
Yes, some credibility.
And then these two do watch enough movies and then immediately being like, we're going
to have a list of movies that we don't have shit about.
Listen to what you have been following from these two.
Yeah, these two morons.
I don't watch like Citizen Kane.
Nah, this, uh, Cosplay, never seen it, whatever.

(02:17:35):
And then to wait two years, just to be like, my favorite movie is show girls.
Right.
And then to be like, all right, we're going to watch some of these and it takes two years.
And now we claim recredit.
Today's, it's just hilarious and concept, but we are officially members of the great
recredit today.
That's right.
That's right.

(02:17:55):
Anything else you want to share with the people in any anniversary notes you want to get out
on?
Just thank you once, once again to all the legions for supporting us from day one.
We honestly could not have done this without you.
And it really does mean the world to us when you guys call us, email us, send us text messages.
I mean, your, your votes for all of our bracket busters and please do a review on this movie.

(02:18:19):
Like we try to get to them as much as we can.
You know, it's hard with scheduling and just trying to live a normal life where podcasting
is not paying our bills.
You know, it really is a passion project.
And we honestly really do it not just for each other, but because I feel that we have
built up enough fan base, enough loyal listeners, enough legions to where we owe it to you.

(02:18:43):
And so thank you for that obligation from me to you.
It means the world to me that I have something to do every other week.
People who want to tune in, people who want to listen and who give a fuck about my opinion
because why should you?
Quite frankly, I mean, and the fact that you do, it means the world to me and I cannot
express enough gratitude.

(02:19:04):
Thank you.
Thank you.
I don't even want to step on that.
Well said, my brother just dead.
Oh, so yeah, you know, I love you all out there.
That's all I say.
Thank y'all for listening.
Man, raise your glass.
We're kicking off our fourth year.
So this is the end of year three right now kicking off your four big things coming.
We love y'all from us and ours to you and yours.

(02:19:26):
I recommend that you go watch a movie and talk about it with somebody that you love
year four.

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