October 14, 2025 • 42 mins
If certainty had a sound, it would be the wellness aisle whispering boost, detox, and natural into your ear. We pull back the curtain on why those words feel so right—and why they so often lead us astray. With Richard Saunders from Australian Skeptics, we unpack how intuition clashes with evidence, how authority bias makes white coats and big badges persuasive, and how deepfakes and influencer snippets outpace careful science in the attention economy.
Listen to Richard's Podcast - https://www.skepticzone.tv/
Proudly sponsored by COUP — helping brands cut through the noise with bold, smart marketing. Visit the http://coup.co website or book a meeting with us at. https://go.oncehub.com/RequestMeeting
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
You are listening to the Why Smart Women Podcast, the
(00:03):
podcast that helps smart womenwork out why we repeatedly make
the wrong decisions and how tomake better ones.
From relationships, careerchoices, finances, to photo
jackets and chaos movies.
Every moment of every day, we'remaking decisions.
Let's make some good ones.
I'm your host, Anny McCubbin,and as a woman of a certain age,
(00:25):
I've made my own pair of reallybad decisions.
Not my adult, I don't think, butI did go through some chocolate
to find it.
And I wish this podcast had beenaround to save me from myself.
This podcast will give youinsights into the working of
your own brain, which will blowyour mind.
I acknowledge the traditionalowners of the land on which I'm
(00:47):
recording, and you are listeningon this day.
Always was, always will be,Aboriginal land.
Well, hello, smart women, andwelcome back to the Why Smart
Women Podcast.
Today I am broadcasting as usualfrom DY on the northern beaches
of Sydney, New South Wales,Australia.
And today with me, um, sort ofas a corollary to our adventure
(01:13):
to the Mind Body SpiritFestival, which we'll be talking
about in a minute again, becauseI'm still recovering from the
shock of it.
I have Richard Saunders, who isthe chief investigator for the
Australian Sceptics, which maynot mean something to many of
you listeners, but it's aboutto.
(01:33):
Hello, Richard.
SPEAKER_01 (01:34):
Hello, I I brought you a large bottle of uh alcohol
to help calm your nerves fromour adventure.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
Yeah, um, because we had attended the Mind Body
Wallet Festival and um I'm stillrecovering.
Richard has bought me a largebottle of gin, which um we've
already started drinking, sothings should be well
lubricated.
So, Richard, is Richard closeenough to that microphone?
Harrison.
Good, good, good, good.
And we have Yo-Yo in attendance,and in a minute, my son
(02:02):
Loughton's going to bring acoffee in, and um which means
she'll bark, but listeners areused to that.
So I thought we'd start with thequestion, Richard, as you have
been in the Skepticsorganization for about five
million years, even though youlook so young.
SPEAKER_01 (02:19):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (02:20):
Everyone assumed we were married, didn't they?
SPEAKER_01 (02:23):
Yeah, the other day that was funny.
That was really funny.
I mean, we were walking aroundalmost arm in arm looking at
stuff.
So it's it wasn't a badassumption to make.
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
It wasn't a bad assumption.
SPEAKER_01 (02:32):
And people make assumptions all the time.
SPEAKER_00 (02:35):
Yes, and let's talk about that, how people make
assumptions.
SPEAKER_01 (02:38):
People make assumptions.
And it really does get back toscepticism in a strange sort of
way that common sense isn'tcommon us and science, the
method of science, isn't commonsense, which sounds
contradictory.
SPEAKER_00 (02:50):
Explain that to me.
SPEAKER_01 (02:51):
The best explanation I can give you is if you look
out here at DY every morning,lovely views, the vistas to the
ocean, what happens when youlook gaze out to sea before the
dawn?
What then happens?
The sun comes up.
Sun comes up.
No, it doesn't.
Common sense tells you the sunis coming up.
In fact, the earth is rotatingtowards the sun, right?
(03:13):
Ah That is an example of how inour day-to-day lives, it's
great.
Common sense, you know, youknow, our our perceptions work
well, they get us by, great.
But when it comes to manydetails like that, for example,
is it any wonder that peopleused to think that the sun
rotated around the earth?
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
Because that's what we see.
That's what we see.
SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
And the scientific method is full of things where
you think, oh, I'm pretty surethat's true, but you know what?
I better double check that.
It's like optical illusions.
SPEAKER_00 (03:42):
And it's like um, well, we use heuristics, you
know, mental shortcuts all thetime, and we have to use
heuristics, otherwise we'd nevermake our way through the day,
correct?
SPEAKER_01 (03:50):
Correct.
And and one thing, veryimportant thing is to remember
about humans is we've evolved tobe a very successful species,
right?
Without most of our existence,without the scientific method,
we still manage to have childrenand eat and and and carry on the
species.
So the scientific method and andcritical thinking is relatively
new.
How new?
(04:11):
Well, that that's how long is abit of string.
We don't know exactly when itwas, you know.
I mean, well, people have beenpracticing science ever since
there was people, but it you itwas it it took a long time to
flourish, especially in the theRenaissance, where a lot of
scientific thought flourished.
Say that six times quicker.
Yes, yes.
More gin, please.
(04:32):
Um but the important thing toremember is we evolved a certain
brain, it works incredibly well,it gets us through the
day-to-day, but it does let usdown occasionally.
And mind, body, spirit is agreat example where lack of
education, uh, lack ofscientific knowledge uh can
really leave us open to beingfleeced.
SPEAKER_00 (04:54):
Yes, and fleeced we are, and especially um at the
moment, I think, with theinvention of the internet, is
that disinformation andmisinformation is coming at us
at breakneck speed, correct?
SPEAKER_01 (05:12):
Oh, yeah, and more so than ever before in any point
of our history, and it'sexponential.
I mean, uh the other day I wasjust mindlessly looking at
TikToks and well, I was lookingat yours, of course.
Thank you, thank you.
Thank you, Richard.
And that's where I get thepromos from because I run promos
for your podcast on my podcast,the skeptic zone of TikTok.
SPEAKER_00 (05:31):
And um ri we will put a link in the show notes to
Richard's podcast.
You've appeared on my card on mypodcast many times.
I have it's called the SkepticZone.
It's very, very good.
And there should be moreskeptical podcasts instead of
people selling us rubbish,correct?
SPEAKER_01 (05:47):
Snake oil.
But on there you can see uhvideos of Elvis Presley and
Freddie Mercury and PresidentJohn F.
Kennedy walking around chattingto people, John Lennon.
And it's now to the point whereif you just look at it, you do
not have the capacity to tellit's computer generated.
So, yes, this information I andand that could be used for
(06:10):
entertainment, that might befine.
But the point is uh m a lot ofwhat you see online is simply
wrong.
People can just put any anythingup they like, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (06:19):
And um I've discussed this prior um with the
snarky gherkin, who's who's avery good and um prolific
debunker.
And we talked about the factthat a lot of these influencers,
influencers that are promotingthings like um you shouldn't
(06:40):
have seed oils because they'regiving they're shutting down
your brain, giving youinflammation, um, causing
premature menopause and givingyou cellulite.
Apparently, did you know,Richard, there was no cellulite
until like 20 years ago.
Apparently, it's new.
SPEAKER_01 (06:56):
I'm just checking my legs.
SPEAKER_00 (06:57):
Yeah, I'm just I'm looking at my legs, and there's
plenty of it on my legs.
Anyway, so um these influencers,they get online and they start
saying something like seed oilsare the work of the devil,
right?
Or whatever the current thingis.
It's still gluten, apparently,is terrible.
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
Well, here's the thing I mean, the the by and
large, the the population outthere, as I said before, they're
not uh they don't have theknowledge or the education, and
why would they?
Why we don't all walk aroundwith this and a scientific
biology encyclopedia in ourbrain, you know.
Uh and so we are all open tohearing this stuff and going, is
(07:36):
that right?
I don't know.
I wasn't I didn't do theuniversity degree, I don't know
if this is right.
And so another thing to rememberabout humans as a species is
that we've been evolved tolisten to authority figures.
SPEAKER_00 (07:50):
Yes, and what does that do?
What's the problem with that?
SPEAKER_01 (07:54):
Well, the the advantage in our past was when
the leader of the tribe saidthis, this, this, and this, it
was probably wise to listen.
Yeah, you know, this snake willkill you, don't go near it.
This you know, and uh ourancestors who listened to
authority figures were the oneswho had children and reproduced.
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
Who survived, who survived, right?
SPEAKER_01 (08:13):
But now, I mean it can be mind body spirit is a
great example again.
It's full of booths of peoplewho talk seemingly knowledgeably
about this product, thatproduct.
Did you know that your stemcells are falling out because of
the parasites and scientistsdon't want you to know this and
government and big farmer andblah blah blah.
Yeah, they say it withauthority, they probab they
(08:33):
could be wearing a white coat orsomething, they've got a big
badge on.
SPEAKER_00 (08:36):
A badge was good.
I noticed there was a lot ofbadges.
Yeah.
And a lot of coats.
SPEAKER_01 (08:40):
Yeah, and and you're we are evolved, and society has
taught us that you know, thesepeople, you listen to what these
people know because theyobviously know what they're
talking about.
And in the case what we'vediscovered is most of these
people, uh, it's hard to saymost, but quite a deal, a good
deal of them, are regurgitatingthe rubbish they've been told
anyway, but speak but speak tous about it as if it's true.
SPEAKER_00 (09:04):
Yeah, so this this notion of um authority figures,
it's uh of course we need thatbecause as you to your point, we
need leadership.
And in terms of a cohesion andsurvival of a tribe, yes, yes,
if we're all anarchic, doesn'twork.
It doesn't work.
But but you walk into a festivalwhere someone's selling you a
(09:25):
patch that's going to um curecancer.
SPEAKER_01 (09:30):
Or do anything, uh whatever they say it does, and
and I've seen dozens of thesethings over the years, from
wristbands to amulets towhatever.
The the worst one I saw, and itreally it was a very many
important lessons, and the namesimply eludes me at the moment,
it was over ten years ago, was alittle disc about the size of a
(09:51):
poker chip, and you can wear itaround your neck, or as the uh
uh uh lady at the stallexplained to me, if you put this
disc on the table and you put ajug of water over the disc, the
water will be imbued with theproperties of sunblock.
What?
And then you can put thatsunblock on.
(10:12):
Safe, natural, effective, right?
And she says, Yes, I use it onmy grandkids.
Now, she's a classic example, uhand she said it with such
conviction, uh conviction, she'sa classic example of somebody
who's simply been duped by thesescamming bastards, you know.
And so they've sold it to her.
Oh, yeah.
They're I mean, the people whoinvent all this stuff know what
they're doing.
They don't accidentally come upwith something and say, Jewel,
(10:35):
wow, this this does all thesemiracle things.
No, it's just a source of it'sbusiness.
You know, it's like the faithhealers in America, the big
circus tent faith healers,business is business.
SPEAKER_00 (10:44):
Yeah.
So the th okay, let's just takethat example of someone who's
got a disc, and then you put thejug of water on it, yeah, and
then imbues the water withsunblock sunblock properties.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:56):
So then this woman has presumably she's got
grandkids.
SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
And she's bought she's bought it Hookline Land
Sinker, and she's getting it inthe water, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
And she's now putting it on the children's
arms, and as we know, thinkingit's going to protect them.
Yeah.
And a friend of my husband's hasum he's just about to have three
melanomas.
SPEAKER_01 (11:19):
I had one on my somewhere around my or did you?
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
You've got very pale skin, haven't you?
SPEAKER_01 (11:23):
Oh, reasonably, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:25):
Yeah.
Uh Richard's very, very pale.
It's a bit like a vampire,listeners.
SPEAKER_01 (11:28):
Um you don't see many grey-haired vampires.
SPEAKER_00 (11:32):
Yeah, don't they live that long?
Oh, they live forever.
Oh, they live forever.
SPEAKER_01 (11:34):
Maybe I am one.
SPEAKER_00 (11:36):
I think you've only been around long enough.
SPEAKER_01 (11:37):
It's it's so important to remember that she,
on the one hand, she's givingterrible advice.
Dangerous advice.
And I told her, because usuallyI hold my tongue, but this time
I said, you cannot give thisadvice.
It's but from her point of view,she is imparting to the general
public this great, wonderfulproduct that she's a part of and
(11:59):
she really believes in.
SPEAKER_00 (12:00):
And of course, the back to the melanoma issue is um
my friend or my husband's friendwho has these three melanomas,
they said to him they occurredbefore he was five.
So this is when this is the skinspecialist said, the
dermatologist said this is allstarted very young.
SPEAKER_02 (12:21):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (12:22):
So if she's putting water on her grandchildren, then
she's actually endangering theirlives.
Like it's very serious.
SPEAKER_01 (12:29):
Yeah, it's and it it's a great example of how, in
many cases, in the new age andthe um alt-med, uh uh this
happens.
The other great example would behomeopathic vaccination.
SPEAKER_00 (12:40):
You know, so explain, okay.
So for for everybody, becausewe've got listeners all over the
world, uh, in Australia, um, ourvaccination rates are pretty
good.
Pretty good.
They're dropping a little bit,but even despite the best
efforts of the lunatic anti-vaxmovement here, which is
(13:01):
vociferous and says some reallycrazy shit, um, our vaccination
rates aren't bad.
I know in the United States atthe moment, for instance, there
is an outbreak of measles, whichwhich, and if you listen to
influences and and the likes ofuh what's her name, O'Neill?
SPEAKER_01 (13:21):
Barbara.
SPEAKER_00 (13:22):
Barbara Barbara O'Neill.
They love saying this shit.
They go, Well, you know, measlesjust it's naturally occurring
for you.
SPEAKER_01 (13:31):
There was a book out about a decade ago called
Melanie's Marvellous Measles.
It's all about how good it isfor children to get measles.
I kid you not, Google it.
Melanie's Marvellous Measles.
SPEAKER_00 (13:42):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (13:43):
Yeah.
But the we busted, oh, uh, youknow, everything goes back a
long time now.
Sometime in the 2000s, we busteda homeopathic outfit here in
Sydney called from memory GentleHeel, who was selling
homeopathic vaccinations.
Now, home homeopathy.
SPEAKER_00 (14:00):
Oh, let's explain this so that for the people who
don't understand uh whathomeopathy is, Richard is about
to explain it, does my head in.
SPEAKER_01 (14:10):
So the principles of homeopathy, there are many, but
in essence, if if you get a avial of um homeopathic liquid or
sugar pills, they are water orsugar pills.
There's no nothing else there.
The idea is that once upon atime they came in contact with
an ingredient, but that has beenlong since removed.
SPEAKER_00 (14:31):
What do you mean once upon a time they came
across the ingredients?
SPEAKER_01 (14:34):
So the idea is if you get a bottle of sugar pills
and you pop in one sugar pillwhich apparently could have been
in contact with, say, a lemon,and you shake it out, and then
you take one of those sugarpills out and you sh put it into
another hundred bottles and doit and do it and do it.
It's as it's as ridiculous as itsounds.
The bottom line is if you getsomething which is called
(14:55):
homeopathic treatment orwhatever, if it's true
homeopathy, it doesn't haveanything in it.
That there are no ingredients,there's just water or sugar.
There's nothing there.
There's nothing there.
It's the mystical spiritualmemory vibrations of the ether
thing.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
Thing that that okay, so these people were
selling if they're going tovaccinate so I let's just say
I've got children, because I uhlet's just say I have little
children and I have been uminfluenced by the anti-vaxxers
that you shouldn't give youshouldn't vaccinate your
children with actual somethingthat does something.
Um then I can go to a homeopathand they will give my children
(15:34):
what?
SPEAKER_01 (15:35):
Well, water or sugar.
SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
But what do they say it is?
SPEAKER_01 (15:38):
They say it is it's a natural vaccination against um
measles, mumps, rubella, hoopingcough, chicken pox, um you you
name it.
Uh so yeah, years ago we busteda company and we gave them the
bent I think we gave them theBent Spoon Award that year for
So explain the Bent Spoon Award.
It's the Australian skepticsgive a discouragement award
every year called the Bent Spoonfor the most ridiculous piece of
(16:01):
you know scam, scammery orsomething that can't possibly
work, or people who think theycan talk to the dead or this
sort of stuff.
And and so but uh with home withthat product, I mean we hate to
think that parents went to them,got sugar magic sugar fairy
water, and thought they wereprotecting their children.
SPEAKER_00 (16:22):
Yeah, because if the child gets hooping cough, I mean
children die of hooping cough,they know two ways about it.
SPEAKER_01 (16:27):
They do.
SPEAKER_00 (16:28):
And and and and and as we know, the measles can give
you encephalitis, it's verydangerous.
SPEAKER_01 (16:33):
So homeopathy, in our point from our perspective,
is an interesting case.
It's probably the biggestmedical scam in history.
It's a scam, it doesn't work,but most people involved with it
will will praise it to thegrave, thinking it's the best
miracle secret, the governmentdoesn't want you to know, it's
not used in hospitals because ofbig pharma conspiracy, on and on
(16:55):
and on and on.
It's just it's it's magicalfairy dust.
It's close to witchcraft.
SPEAKER_00 (16:59):
So, and and may I say that it's that we have a
pharmacy here in DY called theWhole Foods Pharmacy, and they
have lovely pharmacists, very,very nice pharmacists.
I get all my proper pharmamedication there, and it's got
homeopathy in it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:16):
Business is business.
SPEAKER_00 (17:17):
Business is business.
Business is business, yeah.
There's an ethical issue withthat, right?
I know.
There's a really big issue.
SPEAKER_01 (17:29):
It's nothing.
As the hitman raises his rifleto your head, he says, it's
nothing personal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's business.
SPEAKER_00 (17:36):
It's business.
SPEAKER_01 (17:37):
It's big business.
Trillion dollar business, thewhole alt-med supplement
industry.
Yeah.
Big big wellness.
Big wellness.
Big wellness.
SPEAKER_00 (17:46):
Yeah, I've just was uh I've uh one of my latest
TikToks, um, which has hadnearly 30,000 views.
Um I you know, I talk about thefact because of course, you
know, this narrative coming outof the mouths of the influencers
going, big pharma, you know,they're just in the pocket.
(18:07):
The doctors are in the pocket ofbig pharma.
And as we know, um wellness isworth many, many, many times.
Yeah, I've been using thetrillions.
SPEAKER_01 (18:18):
Being in the pocket of um big pharma.
I caught a bus here today.
I didn't drive my Rolls Royce, Icaught a bus, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (18:25):
I'm I wish I was in the pocket of Big Pharma
something.
Yeah, but did you actually ownthat bus?
Is that the truth of it?
You're very wealthy, you own theB1.
SPEAKER_01 (18:32):
Yeah, but but but I let somebody else sit up the
front.
SPEAKER_00 (18:35):
It's really kind of you, Richard.
Yeah, when I get the bus, I dothe same thing.
It is my bus, but I'm like, yousit there and make yourself feel
important.
Yeah, or yeah, and all the GPs Iknow that are apparently, you
know, in the pocket of BigPharma, you know, they're
sitting on some pretty um bigmortgages.
SPEAKER_01 (18:54):
How about that?
SPEAKER_00 (18:55):
How about that?
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
How about then?
SPEAKER_00 (18:56):
But how how does this um imbalance, you know,
it's a big get into our brainsbecause it's so it's so
frustrating for me and sofrustrating for all us skeptics
and debunkers that we're hittingall up all the time against
(19:17):
these voices of certainty thatare that are sort of promoting
woo and dangerous things.
SPEAKER_01 (19:25):
Critical thinking in science is not natural and it's
not easy.
Whereas a simple message aboutthe evil's a big farmer is easy.
And have you heard ofBrandolini's law?
SPEAKER_00 (19:37):
Yes, but please explain it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:39):
Okay, this is more along the l along the lines of
uh it takes many times longer todebunk bullshit than it is to
say bullshit.
In other words, if somebody sayssomething ridiculous or wrong or
absolutely, it takes 30 seconds.
But if you want to unpack thatand explain why it's wrong, it
could take you know so long, andby the time you've done that,
(20:01):
people have left or gone.
SPEAKER_00 (20:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And also once yeah, I know thatonce a piece of disinformation
is out there, as you to yourpoint, even if you refute it,
the refutation doesn't stick,but the misinformation does.
SPEAKER_01 (20:15):
Well, the the great example of that would be um the
lie that vaccines can causeautism by Andrew Wakefield.
SPEAKER_00 (20:24):
Andrew Wakefield, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:26):
Completely retracted and found to be absolutely
wrong, uh scandalous, but it'sstill out there.
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
So just um in case some of our listeners aren't
aware, um Andrew Wakefield was adoctor, he's now been debarred,
hasn't he?
Yes, struck off.
Struck off.
Um and I he I think he had asample size of something like
nine or twelve children.
SPEAKER_01 (20:52):
Yeah, it was a bodgy study.
Uh he was also spruking his owncommercial interests and
everything like that.
As always.
As always.
As always.
Uh, but the the point is, ofcourse, it was retracted and and
debunked.
It it does it's not true.
But it persists in the in thelarge sections of the population
who who listen to theanti-vaxxes are still absolutely
(21:14):
convinced that vaccines causeautism, and now a large amount
of people will probably no doubtthink that paracetamol will
cause autism.
SPEAKER_00 (21:23):
Ah, so um on top of the vaccines.
Oh my god, RFK, what have wedone?
So now we've got RFK in charges.
SPEAKER_01 (21:34):
It's nonsense on stilts.
SPEAKER_00 (21:36):
It's just nonsense on stilts.
It's so dangerous what'shappening in America because now
not only um apparently do umvaccines cause autism according
to the health secretary inAmerica, but also paracetamol
causes it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:55):
Acetaminophid, paracetamol, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:58):
But then last week, apparently Trump had his health
report, and he's the he's thehealthiest president that's ever
been born.
Well, that's obvious.
It's obvious to me.
It's obvious to all of us justlooking at him, he's incredible.
Um that orange stand doesn'tcome from early, right?
Um and he's just beenvaccinated, had his flu shot,
and his covert shot.
So they all do, they're suchshocking hypocrites.
SPEAKER_01 (22:20):
Well, I you can't it's hard to pin anything on on
Mr.
Trump.
You know, it really is.
It's it's it's like they say uhtrying to nail jelly to a wall.
It's a bit strange.
But RFK Jr., yes, he's uh well,where do we start?
But let me just say it's notjust smart women who fall for
all this, it's smart men, it'ssmart everybody.
SPEAKER_00 (22:42):
And why do you think I mean we we talk about this a
bit, but I'd like yourperspective on it.
Um I know a lot of very, veryintelligent people, and
especially say, in the artisticcommunity, um, who absolutely
(23:02):
have a lot of magical thinkinggoing on, a lot of it.
So intelligence hasn't protectedthem.
Why do you think that is?
SPEAKER_01 (23:10):
Because it's part of our evolutionary history.
Unpack that all of us there aremany humans on the planet.
How many billions are?
You can imagine there's a hugevariety of um neural activity
going on up there.
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
Stuff in your brain.
Stuff in your brain.
SPEAKER_01 (23:28):
So you'll get people who are brilliant and
scientifically minded and goodcritical thinkers.
You'll get people who arebrilliant but susceptible to
magical thinking, you'll getpeople who are not very
brilliant particularly, but havelearned critical thinking.
The point is there's a range ofpeople.
We get back to why we're here,why we're here is because our
(23:49):
parents reproduced.
That's all that evolution caresabout.
You know, so critical thinkingand the scientific method are
uh, as we said, are relativelynew on the scene as far as our
species go, but our species wasgoing and uh before all that,
and it still goes.
Despite all the woo and themagic and the people being
(24:11):
ripped off and the bad advice,um, we still carry on as a
species.
So there's it's an interestingway to look at it, you know.
So I would hope that you know,in the in the centuries to come,
we'll fine-tune things.
You know, things will willsettle down, a lot of
superstitions will disappearbecause they always do.
(24:34):
If we keep going, yeah.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:35):
I heard somebody on there was a woman online, isn't
it?
She's saying, she was beinginterviewed, and she said, you
know, it's so beautiful.
I was um I was talking to Jesus,and apparently he's um he's
bought Charlie Kirk a ranch.
And um they were so Jesus andCharlie Kirk have been riding
(24:57):
horses together on a ranch, andCharlie's really happy anyway.
So she's saying that, and I'm II'm having to fan myself because
I'm like, oh my fucking god.
And then um the woman she was sothere was two women, right?
One was interview, someone wasinterviewing her, and the woman
that was interviewing her waswiping tears away and nodding in
this really sincere manner, andI was like, Do you do do you
(25:21):
actually believe that?
Do you actually believe that?
Or have you or are you making itup?
Like, I don't know, but theywere so sincere.
SPEAKER_01 (25:30):
You can't tell sometimes.
You really can't tell.
Uh, but the good news is, ofcourse, there are people like
you aiming your podcast ateverybody, not just smart women.
SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
Are you going to buy me a ranch though?
I'm just asking.
SPEAKER_01 (25:41):
You will.
Well, I'll buy you a ranchdressing, how about that?
For your salad.
And there are people like KateThomas, who are actively on
TikTok looking at this woo andsaying, here's the real deal.
SPEAKER_00 (25:53):
Okay, so Kate Thomas, um, who Richard and I
had the pleasure of going to theMind Body Body Spirit Festival
with, is a pharmacist and she ismarried to an oncologist.
Yeah.
And also my daughter was inattendance at that, and she's
also studied chemistry and she'sa lawyer, and she was walking
around going, They can't saythis, mum, they can't say it.
(26:14):
It's illegal, they can't saythis.
SPEAKER_01 (26:15):
Well, I've I've wanted Mind Body Spirit to be
rated for years.
SPEAKER_00 (26:19):
Yeah, but it's it's a resourcing thing.
SPEAKER_01 (26:20):
It's a resourcing thing, yeah.
It's it's just seen as sillylight entertainment.
Yeah, but there's very badthings happen there.
SPEAKER_00 (26:27):
Yeah, it's it's very bad.
So what so because sometimes,especially when RFK was elected.
I He wasn't elected, it wasn'telected.
No, no, correct.
Thank you for that question.
It's actually true.
When he came to power, I I justwanted to lie down.
I was like, Well, how do we gethere?
And then sometimes I get quite Ifeel like our voices that are
(26:52):
going, don't homeopathicallyvaccinate your child.
You can you can eat glutensafely unless you're um you know
unless you're a celiac.
Um, you know, dairy isn'tnecessarily the work of the
devil.
SPEAKER_01 (27:07):
And sunscreen is is good for you if you go in the
sun.
SPEAKER_00 (27:10):
Sunscreen is backlash against sunscreen.
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
A lot of people think it's it contains naughty
nanoparticles.
Oh, nanoparticles.
SPEAKER_00 (27:17):
And then there's people And they probably have
parasites, right?
Yeah, well that's the otherthing, is that of course
everything with the detoxing andthe amount of people, the amount
of like because I'm big I'm partof a gym community, and um, you
know, I hear the chat around meof the sort of women in their
20s and 30s, everybody'sfrigging detoxing, they're
(27:38):
having these special lemondrinks.
I'm like, is it what are youwhat your liver and kidneys do?
SPEAKER_01 (27:44):
Because they've been told by authority figures and it
makes sense.
From a common sense point ofview, it makes sense.
It's it's like the the suncoming up instead of the earth
going towards the body.
SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
So, how does detoxing make sense to explain
to me?
Because it doesn't make sense tome.
SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
Well just just on the face of it.
If if you're if you think you'vegot toxins, whatever they are in
your body, and this will get ridof them, that makes sense,
doesn't it?
It's a simple message.
SPEAKER_00 (28:08):
I'm t so I know I've got toxins because I'm maybe
tired.
But uh why do I think I've gottoxins?
I've been taught I've gottoxins.
SPEAKER_01 (28:16):
Are you feeling tired?
SPEAKER_00 (28:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:17):
It's probably toxins.
Is that you're feeling tired,right?
I am tired.
And you all the heavy metalsthat that build up in your blood
and your body.
Yeah, I do feel tired.
If you wear these foot patches,all the heavy metal are drawn
out through your feet.
Look, I can put them on yourfeet tomorrow morning you wake
up, they're all brown.
Proof positive.
That's another scam.
SPEAKER_00 (28:37):
Yeah, and yeah, so I I'm tired, or perhaps I'm you
know, tired and I've got a lotgoing on, perhaps I'm really
stressed.
SPEAKER_01 (28:46):
And we go to an authority figure for help.
SPEAKER_00 (28:48):
And so I go to a naturopath.
SPEAKER_01 (28:50):
Yep.
Who you believe knows whatthey're talking about.
SPEAKER_00 (28:54):
Well it's got the word naturopath, has nature
embedded in the word.
And we have a big bias towardsthings that are natural,
correct?
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
Correct.
Yeah, it's it's a it's a one ofthe best marketing campaigns
ever perpetrated on thepopulation.
SPEAKER_00 (29:08):
Why do we have a bias towards all natural?
Because it's friggingeverywhere, right?
What's the deal?
SPEAKER_01 (29:13):
The deal is it has the inherent promise of being
good.
Natural is good.
It's it's been just drilled intous, you know, where there in
truth natural is completelyindifferent to us.
You know, so nature can kill us,snake bites are natural, you
know, poo is natural.
SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
Brown bears.
SPEAKER_01 (29:33):
Brown bears, you know, arsenic.
Uh and we've spent the r thereason that we live such long
and healthy lives generally isbecause we fight against nature.
You know.
SPEAKER_00 (29:42):
See, isn't that the most fascinating?
SPEAKER_01 (29:46):
Again, it's counterintuitive, you see.
SPEAKER_00 (29:49):
Let's just look at that for a minute because you
know, the amount of marketing,you know, I live above a I live
above a woolies, and so I'm upand down, and also there's the
pharmacy.
Yo-yo loves Richard, by the way.
Yo-yo, who's genuinely veryleery of people, especially men,
has sat at his feet and lookedat him like he's a king and at
(30:11):
various points offered her poreand has now gone to sleep.
That's right.
So that's the magic of Richard.
Did you give her, did you slipher some?
Some homeopotheism.
Homeopathic vet stuff, right?
Um anyway, so I go up and downthese aisles.
And the word natural, natural,um additive-free, no artificial
(30:34):
colours.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:35):
It appears about no GMO, etc.
etc.
SPEAKER_00 (30:39):
Oh, no GMO.
SPEAKER_01 (30:41):
It's marketing, it's marketing, it's marketing.
That's how our society works.
It's capitalism, and to a pointyou can forgive and understand
that, and society stillfunctions.
But the the the wary buyer willrealize that that's just a
marketing campaign.
SPEAKER_00 (30:56):
So, Nate, this notion of I don't want to have
anything processed.
I mean, the the the backlashagainst processed food is just
stupid.
It's just ridiculous.
SPEAKER_01 (31:08):
Just just be aware of what you're eating.
Let's nice lots of nice healthyfruit and veggies and stuff like
that.
The odd processed foods.
SPEAKER_00 (31:18):
It's all right.
Fine, have a bicky.
You know, don't eat six Big Macsa day, but apart from that,
you're alright.
SPEAKER_01 (31:23):
I mean, yeah, generally speaking, again, our
population is healthier andlives longer than any at any
time in history.
So we've got to be doingsomething, right?
SPEAKER_00 (31:30):
And yet we've got this uh appeal to nature.
And the other big issue that Ihave is this notion of clean
eating.
It's everywhere.
You've got to clean eat.
Um, and I think clean eating,you know, it sounds like you've
got to dust the dirt off yourfood.
It's in fact not.
I think I think it's no gluten.
SPEAKER_01 (31:50):
Now maybe you you eat while you're cleaning.
SPEAKER_00 (31:52):
No clean eating like that.
You know, uh a sort of a washerin one hand and uh I don't know,
an apple in the other.
But I think it's no dairy, Idon't know what it is, it's no
dairy and it's nothingprocessed, and all this all that
happens from this, especially inwomen, from say the 20 to
mid-40s age bracket, is we endup with disordered eating.
(32:15):
And it's based on absolutelynothing.
SPEAKER_01 (32:17):
Well, I will make a comment about, and of course,
this is the Why Smart Womenpodcast, and you'll agree with
me that when we're at Mind BodySpirit, 75% of the attendees
there were women.
And why do you think that is?
Uh because what is there ismarketed to appeal, especially
to women.
So we are much more vulnerable.
Yeah, I mean, let's let's justsay, yeah, you you it's true.
(32:39):
Be not because it's no fault ofwomen, it's because that's where
the market is, and that peopleknow that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:46):
So the marketing towards women is much more
prevalent.
Yes.
Because we have I guess there'sthe hormonal thing because we,
you know, we've got the whole ummenstrual cycle and then the
menopause.
And I did notice that themenstrual cycle and menopause
was very heavily.
SPEAKER_01 (33:03):
I saw that too, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:04):
I just saw much because menopause is the new
black.
SPEAKER_01 (33:08):
And uh this hormonally balancing and a
hormonally balancing emotionfrom society that we women are
the caring, spiritual,nurturing, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
Which is, you know, there'salways a grains of truth in it,
all of this sort of stuff.
But then it's when you go there,you s you see that's oh, what a
great angle for marketing.
You know, buy this product, buythis herb, buy this.
SPEAKER_00 (33:27):
It'll it'll hormonally balance you and fix
your inflammation and stop youbloating.
Stop.
Oh, Richard, get onto it.
I need some of that.
You need some.
SPEAKER_01 (33:35):
But of course, on the upside is, as we all
discovered, there were nicethings to buy.
SPEAKER_00 (33:40):
I didn't like it.
SPEAKER_01 (33:41):
You didn't Kate bought some lovely clothes and
things you did.
SPEAKER_00 (33:45):
I couldn't do it.
I bought some chocolate and Lilysaid.
I bought chocolate because I wasreally hungry.
It's the only reason I boughtit.
Then Lily sidled up to mydaughter and she went, Why did
you buy that?
I said I was really hungry.
She went, It's vegan, mum.
And I went, ugh.
SPEAKER_01 (33:59):
But but as much as it freaked you out, you know
that you did the right thing invegan.
SPEAKER_00 (34:04):
I know I did the right thing because otherwise
it's this notion that we justsit around being endlessly
judgmental.
So it's interesting what you sayabout women, and I think that's
really relevant, that we aremeant to be the the this the um
nurturing spiritual um sort ofbeings, but we're also meant to
(34:27):
be thin, pretty, young, and nowwe're meant to be um because the
now the the code now for thin isfit.
SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
Is it strong?
Okay, okay, strong.
SPEAKER_00 (34:40):
Yeah, we don't talk thin, Richard.
We talk thin I have I haven'ttalked thin for years.
We haven't talked thin foryears, that's right.
But you you can talk strong now,you don't have to talk thin.
So there's all this codedlanguage.
So now the new thing is youdon't have to be thin, but you
can go to the gym and then youcan be really strong, but of
course you've got to do that,and then you've got to have 17
(35:02):
different sorts of proteinbecause everything, did you not
notice that everything isprotein?
SPEAKER_01 (35:07):
Everything is well, I thought everything was
parasites, but there you go.
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
No, well no, there's parasites that that really live
on the protein.
I don't know if they do.
I don't.
But every product, you just godownstairs to Woolworths, okay,
and you look at you look for theword protein, yeah.
It's everywhere.
SPEAKER_02 (35:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:22):
Now, we actually don't need that much protein.
It's not very good for ourkidneys and liver, apparently,
but it's absolutely everywhere.
Is that and the other thing thathas appeared on the shelves is
bone broth.
SPEAKER_01 (35:33):
There was bone brush at uh bone broth.
Bone broth.
Probably bone broth, but therewas also bone broth at Mind Body
Wallet too, wasn't there?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:41):
Yeah, so that's uh that's I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (35:43):
That's I think that detoxes.
Maybe it detoxes your parasites,you know.
If your parasites have detoxhave toxins in them, yeah.
They eat that you drink the bonebroth, it goes to the parasites
and then does what?
SPEAKER_00 (35:57):
It didn't it detoxes the parasites, but then they're
happy parasites.
Then they're happy, then theyget then they can go to the gym
and they don't have to get thin,they can just get strong.
So what you've got is parasiteswith really developed biceps.
Yeah, I think that's what'shappening.
So there's all this languagethat we have to cut as women
especially and men, but thispodcast is aimed at women, that
(36:19):
we have to cut through.
So if you see some of thislanguage around detoxing or um
anti-inflammatory or immuneboosting, or the word protein,
or the word bone broth, or theword organic, or the word GMO,
start thinking, or the wordnatural.
SPEAKER_01 (36:41):
I it's really it's it's incredibly difficult.
It really is.
We get back to the point thatscience and critical thinking is
a chore.
But uh the quick bit of adviceif you are out shopping and you
come across something like thisbone broth or whatever, Google
it plus the word skeptic orsceptical review.
At least thinking.
At least have a look.
(37:02):
You might find something writtenby the Committee for Skeptical
Inquiry or the AustralianSkeptics or some some credible
doctors saying, well, we'velooked at this, and here is what
we've found.
It's it's it will behoove you todo that.
SPEAKER_00 (37:15):
So you look up the word skeptic or sceptical
inquirer.
Can you look up the word scam?
I often look up scam.
SPEAKER_01 (37:23):
Yes.
Um I would probably opt forskeptical, but you can all you
can look for both simply becauseit's it's a bit laden, the word
scam.
Yeah, yeah.
We're skeptical.
Skeptical means that youhopefully you will find a
critical analysis.
(37:43):
Somebody who's looked at it notfrom a cynical point of view,
but from a skeptical point, aquestioning point of view.
What's really behind this, youknow?
SPEAKER_00 (37:52):
Yeah, so I think I think that's a really good thing
to do because it's verydifficult for us to make that
assessment.
I noticed that Kate and Lily, itwas quite easy for them to turn
a product over and look at theside of it and go, that doesn't
make sense.
Whereas I wouldn't know.
SPEAKER_01 (38:07):
Yeah, yeah, the general why would the general
public pub population know?
That's they stream in there bythe thousands, they don't have
that education.
SPEAKER_00 (38:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we need to start maybespreading the word that if you
see a product, what you can dois look up the word skeptic and
they will assess the claims.
You know, that one of the thebiggest claims I see on things
that will is it will boost yourimmune system.
SPEAKER_01 (38:32):
Yeah, it's a meaningless term.
It's meaningless.
SPEAKER_00 (38:34):
You don't want to boost your immune system.
SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
I'm surprised they haven't changed that to balance
because we all want a balancedimmune system.
Yeah, balanced brain.
But boost is a great wordbecause it It's got energy
behind it.
It's got energy, it's it'seasily understood, and you think
that it makes it better.
It's going to be better, but infact, you don't want to be able
to do it.
No, you don't want no, becausethat leads to things like
autoimmune disorders and thingslike that.
(38:58):
Which are the result ofoveractivity.
SPEAKER_00 (39:00):
So just think next time you see the word, you know,
boost your immune system, lookup skeptical and next the
sceptical inquirer and nextinquiry.
SPEAKER_01 (39:10):
Well, just just the word skeptical.
And in fact, that's a greatstart.
Everybody, uh, after you'velistened to this podcast, go to
and put in quotes boost yourimmune system, and then after
that, type in the word skepticalor sceptical review and see what
you find.
See what you find.
And you'll have a betterunderstanding of this
meaningless term.
SPEAKER_00 (39:28):
And I think we might do that every week, Harrison.
We might come up with a termlike organic or anti-GMO.
SPEAKER_01 (39:36):
Anti-GMO.
Parasites.
I I I you you put me on theparasites.
I you keep I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (39:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, I told you, and they werefalling out of me as I was
around the festival.
Well, I think we've coveredquite a lot.
What do you think about it?
SPEAKER_01 (39:48):
I think we've done very well indeed.
SPEAKER_00 (39:50):
And I think we have to keep going with our dual our
dual.
SPEAKER_01 (39:55):
Our Why Smart Women's Zone.
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (39:57):
Why Smart Women's Owner?
SPEAKER_01 (39:58):
The Why Smart Women's Own podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (39:59):
Well, I think that was very helpful.
So thank you so much for comingall the way to the Northern
Beaches and calming down yo-yo.
Yes, it's like again magicalhomeopathy drops that you
clearly put on her tongue.
I snuck them in.
You snuck them in, you sneakyRichard.
SPEAKER_01 (40:14):
And enjoy the files I've given you.
Folks, I've given Annie mycomplete archive of AltMed files
I've collected over the pastquarter of a century.
It's absolutely terrible.
You'll have nightmares watchingthis.
SPEAKER_00 (40:25):
I will.
I've I'm all I'm just as youknow, I've had to drink three
glasses of gin this morning justto get over two days ago.
So thank you so much, Richard.
Thank you.
Thank you so much, Harrison, asusual.
Um, and to all the listeners,stay safe, stay well, wherever
you are in the world, andremember, keep your critical
thinking hats on.
(40:46):
See you later.
Bye.
Thanks for tuning in to WhySmart Women with me, Annie
McCubbin.
I hope today's episode hasignited your curiosity and left
you feeling inspired by myanti-motivational style.
Join me next time as we continueto unravel the fascinating
layers of our brains and developways to sort out the fact from
(41:09):
the fiction and the over 6,000thoughts we have in the course
of every day.
Remember, intelligence isn'tenough.
You can be as smart as paint,but it's not just about what you
know, it's about how you think.
And in all this talk of whetheror not you can trust your gut.
If you ever feel unsafe, whetherit's in the street, at work, car
(41:31):
park, in a bar, or in your ownhome, please, please respect
that gut feeling.
Staying safe needs to be ourprimary objective.
We can build better lives, butwe have to stay safe to do that.
And don't forget to subscribe,rate, and review the podcast and
share it with your fellow smartwomen and allies.
(41:51):
Together we're hopefullyreshaping the narrative around
women and making betterdecisions.
So until next time, stay sharp,stay savvy, and keep your
critical thinking at shiny.
This is Annie McCubbin signingoff from White Smart Women.
See you later.
This episode was produced byHarrison Hest.
(42:12):
It was executive produced andwritten by me, Annie McCubbin.
You are listening to the Why Smart Women Podcast, the
(00:03):
podcast that helps smart womenwork out why we repeatedly make
the wrong decisions and how tomake better ones.
From relationships, careerchoices, finances, to photo
jackets and chaos movies.
Every moment of every day, we'remaking decisions.
Let's make some good ones.
I'm your host, Anny McCubbin,and as a woman of a certain age,
(00:25):
I've made my own pair of reallybad decisions.
Not my adult, I don't think, butI did go through some chocolate
to find it.
And I wish this podcast had beenaround to save me from myself.
This podcast will give youinsights into the working of
your own brain, which will blowyour mind.
I acknowledge the traditionalowners of the land on which I'm
(00:47):
recording, and you are listeningon this day.
Always was, always will be,Aboriginal land.
Well, hello, smart women, andwelcome back to the Why Smart
Women Podcast.
Today I am broadcasting as usualfrom DY on the northern beaches
of Sydney, New South Wales,Australia.
And today with me, um, sort ofas a corollary to our adventure
(01:13):
to the Mind Body SpiritFestival, which we'll be talking
about in a minute again, becauseI'm still recovering from the
shock of it.
I have Richard Saunders, who isthe chief investigator for the
Australian Sceptics, which maynot mean something to many of
you listeners, but it's aboutto.
(01:33):
Hello, Richard.
SPEAKER_01 (01:34):
Hello, I I brought you a large bottle of uh alcohol
to help calm your nerves fromour adventure.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
Yeah, um, because we had attended the Mind Body
Wallet Festival and um I'm stillrecovering.
Richard has bought me a largebottle of gin, which um we've
already started drinking, sothings should be well
lubricated.
So, Richard, is Richard closeenough to that microphone?
Harrison.
Good, good, good, good.
And we have Yo-Yo in attendance,and in a minute, my son
(02:02):
Loughton's going to bring acoffee in, and um which means
she'll bark, but listeners areused to that.
So I thought we'd start with thequestion, Richard, as you have
been in the Skepticsorganization for about five
million years, even though youlook so young.
SPEAKER_01 (02:19):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (02:20):
Everyone assumed we were married, didn't they?
SPEAKER_01 (02:23):
Yeah, the other day that was funny.
That was really funny.
I mean, we were walking aroundalmost arm in arm looking at
stuff.
So it's it wasn't a badassumption to make.
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
It wasn't a bad assumption.
SPEAKER_01 (02:32):
And people make assumptions all the time.
SPEAKER_00 (02:35):
Yes, and let's talk about that, how people make
assumptions.
SPEAKER_01 (02:38):
People make assumptions.
And it really does get back toscepticism in a strange sort of
way that common sense isn'tcommon us and science, the
method of science, isn't commonsense, which sounds
contradictory.
SPEAKER_00 (02:50):
Explain that to me.
SPEAKER_01 (02:51):
The best explanation I can give you is if you look
out here at DY every morning,lovely views, the vistas to the
ocean, what happens when youlook gaze out to sea before the
dawn?
What then happens?
The sun comes up.
Sun comes up.
No, it doesn't.
Common sense tells you the sunis coming up.
In fact, the earth is rotatingtowards the sun, right?
(03:13):
Ah That is an example of how inour day-to-day lives, it's
great.
Common sense, you know, youknow, our our perceptions work
well, they get us by, great.
But when it comes to manydetails like that, for example,
is it any wonder that peopleused to think that the sun
rotated around the earth?
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
Because that's what we see.
That's what we see.
SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
And the scientific method is full of things where
you think, oh, I'm pretty surethat's true, but you know what?
I better double check that.
It's like optical illusions.
SPEAKER_00 (03:42):
And it's like um, well, we use heuristics, you
know, mental shortcuts all thetime, and we have to use
heuristics, otherwise we'd nevermake our way through the day,
correct?
SPEAKER_01 (03:50):
Correct.
And and one thing, veryimportant thing is to remember
about humans is we've evolved tobe a very successful species,
right?
Without most of our existence,without the scientific method,
we still manage to have childrenand eat and and and carry on the
species.
So the scientific method and andcritical thinking is relatively
new.
How new?
(04:11):
Well, that that's how long is abit of string.
We don't know exactly when itwas, you know.
I mean, well, people have beenpracticing science ever since
there was people, but it you itwas it it took a long time to
flourish, especially in the theRenaissance, where a lot of
scientific thought flourished.
Say that six times quicker.
Yes, yes.
More gin, please.
(04:32):
Um but the important thing toremember is we evolved a certain
brain, it works incredibly well,it gets us through the
day-to-day, but it does let usdown occasionally.
And mind, body, spirit is agreat example where lack of
education, uh, lack ofscientific knowledge uh can
really leave us open to beingfleeced.
SPEAKER_00 (04:54):
Yes, and fleeced we are, and especially um at the
moment, I think, with theinvention of the internet, is
that disinformation andmisinformation is coming at us
at breakneck speed, correct?
SPEAKER_01 (05:12):
Oh, yeah, and more so than ever before in any point
of our history, and it'sexponential.
I mean, uh the other day I wasjust mindlessly looking at
TikToks and well, I was lookingat yours, of course.
Thank you, thank you.
Thank you, Richard.
And that's where I get thepromos from because I run promos
for your podcast on my podcast,the skeptic zone of TikTok.
SPEAKER_00 (05:31):
And um ri we will put a link in the show notes to
Richard's podcast.
You've appeared on my card on mypodcast many times.
I have it's called the SkepticZone.
It's very, very good.
And there should be moreskeptical podcasts instead of
people selling us rubbish,correct?
SPEAKER_01 (05:47):
Snake oil.
But on there you can see uhvideos of Elvis Presley and
Freddie Mercury and PresidentJohn F.
Kennedy walking around chattingto people, John Lennon.
And it's now to the point whereif you just look at it, you do
not have the capacity to tellit's computer generated.
So, yes, this information I andand that could be used for
(06:10):
entertainment, that might befine.
But the point is uh m a lot ofwhat you see online is simply
wrong.
People can just put any anythingup they like, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (06:19):
And um I've discussed this prior um with the
snarky gherkin, who's who's avery good and um prolific
debunker.
And we talked about the factthat a lot of these influencers,
influencers that are promotingthings like um you shouldn't
(06:40):
have seed oils because they'regiving they're shutting down
your brain, giving youinflammation, um, causing
premature menopause and givingyou cellulite.
Apparently, did you know,Richard, there was no cellulite
until like 20 years ago.
Apparently, it's new.
SPEAKER_01 (06:56):
I'm just checking my legs.
SPEAKER_00 (06:57):
Yeah, I'm just I'm looking at my legs, and there's
plenty of it on my legs.
Anyway, so um these influencers,they get online and they start
saying something like seed oilsare the work of the devil,
right?
Or whatever the current thingis.
It's still gluten, apparently,is terrible.
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
Well, here's the thing I mean, the the by and
large, the the population outthere, as I said before, they're
not uh they don't have theknowledge or the education, and
why would they?
Why we don't all walk aroundwith this and a scientific
biology encyclopedia in ourbrain, you know.
Uh and so we are all open tohearing this stuff and going, is
(07:36):
that right?
I don't know.
I wasn't I didn't do theuniversity degree, I don't know
if this is right.
And so another thing to rememberabout humans as a species is
that we've been evolved tolisten to authority figures.
SPEAKER_00 (07:50):
Yes, and what does that do?
What's the problem with that?
SPEAKER_01 (07:54):
Well, the the advantage in our past was when
the leader of the tribe saidthis, this, this, and this, it
was probably wise to listen.
Yeah, you know, this snake willkill you, don't go near it.
This you know, and uh ourancestors who listened to
authority figures were the oneswho had children and reproduced.
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
Who survived, who survived, right?
SPEAKER_01 (08:13):
But now, I mean it can be mind body spirit is a
great example again.
It's full of booths of peoplewho talk seemingly knowledgeably
about this product, thatproduct.
Did you know that your stemcells are falling out because of
the parasites and scientistsdon't want you to know this and
government and big farmer andblah blah blah.
Yeah, they say it withauthority, they probab they
(08:33):
could be wearing a white coat orsomething, they've got a big
badge on.
SPEAKER_00 (08:36):
A badge was good.
I noticed there was a lot ofbadges.
Yeah.
And a lot of coats.
SPEAKER_01 (08:40):
Yeah, and and you're we are evolved, and society has
taught us that you know, thesepeople, you listen to what these
people know because theyobviously know what they're
talking about.
And in the case what we'vediscovered is most of these
people, uh, it's hard to saymost, but quite a deal, a good
deal of them, are regurgitatingthe rubbish they've been told
anyway, but speak but speak tous about it as if it's true.
SPEAKER_00 (09:04):
Yeah, so this this notion of um authority figures,
it's uh of course we need thatbecause as you to your point, we
need leadership.
And in terms of a cohesion andsurvival of a tribe, yes, yes,
if we're all anarchic, doesn'twork.
It doesn't work.
But but you walk into a festivalwhere someone's selling you a
(09:25):
patch that's going to um curecancer.
SPEAKER_01 (09:30):
Or do anything, uh whatever they say it does, and
and I've seen dozens of thesethings over the years, from
wristbands to amulets towhatever.
The the worst one I saw, and itreally it was a very many
important lessons, and the namesimply eludes me at the moment,
it was over ten years ago, was alittle disc about the size of a
(09:51):
poker chip, and you can wear itaround your neck, or as the uh
uh uh lady at the stallexplained to me, if you put this
disc on the table and you put ajug of water over the disc, the
water will be imbued with theproperties of sunblock.
What?
And then you can put thatsunblock on.
(10:12):
Safe, natural, effective, right?
And she says, Yes, I use it onmy grandkids.
Now, she's a classic example, uhand she said it with such
conviction, uh conviction, she'sa classic example of somebody
who's simply been duped by thesescamming bastards, you know.
And so they've sold it to her.
Oh, yeah.
They're I mean, the people whoinvent all this stuff know what
they're doing.
They don't accidentally come upwith something and say, Jewel,
(10:35):
wow, this this does all thesemiracle things.
No, it's just a source of it'sbusiness.
You know, it's like the faithhealers in America, the big
circus tent faith healers,business is business.
SPEAKER_00 (10:44):
Yeah.
So the th okay, let's just takethat example of someone who's
got a disc, and then you put thejug of water on it, yeah, and
then imbues the water withsunblock sunblock properties.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:56):
So then this woman has presumably she's got
grandkids.
SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
And she's bought she's bought it Hookline Land
Sinker, and she's getting it inthe water, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
And she's now putting it on the children's
arms, and as we know, thinkingit's going to protect them.
Yeah.
And a friend of my husband's hasum he's just about to have three
melanomas.
SPEAKER_01 (11:19):
I had one on my somewhere around my or did you?
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
You've got very pale skin, haven't you?
SPEAKER_01 (11:23):
Oh, reasonably, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:25):
Yeah.
Uh Richard's very, very pale.
It's a bit like a vampire,listeners.
SPEAKER_01 (11:28):
Um you don't see many grey-haired vampires.
SPEAKER_00 (11:32):
Yeah, don't they live that long?
Oh, they live forever.
Oh, they live forever.
SPEAKER_01 (11:34):
Maybe I am one.
SPEAKER_00 (11:36):
I think you've only been around long enough.
SPEAKER_01 (11:37):
It's it's so important to remember that she,
on the one hand, she's givingterrible advice.
Dangerous advice.
And I told her, because usuallyI hold my tongue, but this time
I said, you cannot give thisadvice.
It's but from her point of view,she is imparting to the general
public this great, wonderfulproduct that she's a part of and
(11:59):
she really believes in.
SPEAKER_00 (12:00):
And of course, the back to the melanoma issue is um
my friend or my husband's friendwho has these three melanomas,
they said to him they occurredbefore he was five.
So this is when this is the skinspecialist said, the
dermatologist said this is allstarted very young.
SPEAKER_02 (12:21):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (12:22):
So if she's putting water on her grandchildren, then
she's actually endangering theirlives.
Like it's very serious.
SPEAKER_01 (12:29):
Yeah, it's and it it's a great example of how, in
many cases, in the new age andthe um alt-med, uh uh this
happens.
The other great example would behomeopathic vaccination.
SPEAKER_00 (12:40):
You know, so explain, okay.
So for for everybody, becausewe've got listeners all over the
world, uh, in Australia, um, ourvaccination rates are pretty
good.
Pretty good.
They're dropping a little bit,but even despite the best
efforts of the lunatic anti-vaxmovement here, which is
(13:01):
vociferous and says some reallycrazy shit, um, our vaccination
rates aren't bad.
I know in the United States atthe moment, for instance, there
is an outbreak of measles, whichwhich, and if you listen to
influences and and the likes ofuh what's her name, O'Neill?
SPEAKER_01 (13:21):
Barbara.
SPEAKER_00 (13:22):
Barbara Barbara O'Neill.
They love saying this shit.
They go, Well, you know, measlesjust it's naturally occurring
for you.
SPEAKER_01 (13:31):
There was a book out about a decade ago called
Melanie's Marvellous Measles.
It's all about how good it isfor children to get measles.
I kid you not, Google it.
Melanie's Marvellous Measles.
SPEAKER_00 (13:42):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (13:43):
Yeah.
But the we busted, oh, uh, youknow, everything goes back a
long time now.
Sometime in the 2000s, we busteda homeopathic outfit here in
Sydney called from memory GentleHeel, who was selling
homeopathic vaccinations.
Now, home homeopathy.
SPEAKER_00 (14:00):
Oh, let's explain this so that for the people who
don't understand uh whathomeopathy is, Richard is about
to explain it, does my head in.
SPEAKER_01 (14:10):
So the principles of homeopathy, there are many, but
in essence, if if you get a avial of um homeopathic liquid or
sugar pills, they are water orsugar pills.
There's no nothing else there.
The idea is that once upon atime they came in contact with
an ingredient, but that has beenlong since removed.
SPEAKER_00 (14:31):
What do you mean once upon a time they came
across the ingredients?
SPEAKER_01 (14:34):
So the idea is if you get a bottle of sugar pills
and you pop in one sugar pillwhich apparently could have been
in contact with, say, a lemon,and you shake it out, and then
you take one of those sugarpills out and you sh put it into
another hundred bottles and doit and do it and do it.
It's as it's as ridiculous as itsounds.
The bottom line is if you getsomething which is called
(14:55):
homeopathic treatment orwhatever, if it's true
homeopathy, it doesn't haveanything in it.
That there are no ingredients,there's just water or sugar.
There's nothing there.
There's nothing there.
It's the mystical spiritualmemory vibrations of the ether
thing.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
Thing that that okay, so these people were
selling if they're going tovaccinate so I let's just say
I've got children, because I uhlet's just say I have little
children and I have been uminfluenced by the anti-vaxxers
that you shouldn't give youshouldn't vaccinate your
children with actual somethingthat does something.
Um then I can go to a homeopathand they will give my children
(15:34):
what?
SPEAKER_01 (15:35):
Well, water or sugar.
SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
But what do they say it is?
SPEAKER_01 (15:38):
They say it is it's a natural vaccination against um
measles, mumps, rubella, hoopingcough, chicken pox, um you you
name it.
Uh so yeah, years ago we busteda company and we gave them the
bent I think we gave them theBent Spoon Award that year for
So explain the Bent Spoon Award.
It's the Australian skepticsgive a discouragement award
every year called the Bent Spoonfor the most ridiculous piece of
(16:01):
you know scam, scammery orsomething that can't possibly
work, or people who think theycan talk to the dead or this
sort of stuff.
And and so but uh with home withthat product, I mean we hate to
think that parents went to them,got sugar magic sugar fairy
water, and thought they wereprotecting their children.
SPEAKER_00 (16:22):
Yeah, because if the child gets hooping cough, I mean
children die of hooping cough,they know two ways about it.
SPEAKER_01 (16:27):
They do.
SPEAKER_00 (16:28):
And and and and and as we know, the measles can give
you encephalitis, it's verydangerous.
SPEAKER_01 (16:33):
So homeopathy, in our point from our perspective,
is an interesting case.
It's probably the biggestmedical scam in history.
It's a scam, it doesn't work,but most people involved with it
will will praise it to thegrave, thinking it's the best
miracle secret, the governmentdoesn't want you to know, it's
not used in hospitals because ofbig pharma conspiracy, on and on
(16:55):
and on and on.
It's just it's it's magicalfairy dust.
It's close to witchcraft.
SPEAKER_00 (16:59):
So, and and may I say that it's that we have a
pharmacy here in DY called theWhole Foods Pharmacy, and they
have lovely pharmacists, very,very nice pharmacists.
I get all my proper pharmamedication there, and it's got
homeopathy in it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:16):
Business is business.
SPEAKER_00 (17:17):
Business is business.
Business is business, yeah.
There's an ethical issue withthat, right?
I know.
There's a really big issue.
SPEAKER_01 (17:29):
It's nothing.
As the hitman raises his rifleto your head, he says, it's
nothing personal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's business.
SPEAKER_00 (17:36):
It's business.
SPEAKER_01 (17:37):
It's big business.
Trillion dollar business, thewhole alt-med supplement
industry.
Yeah.
Big big wellness.
Big wellness.
Big wellness.
SPEAKER_00 (17:46):
Yeah, I've just was uh I've uh one of my latest
TikToks, um, which has hadnearly 30,000 views.
Um I you know, I talk about thefact because of course, you
know, this narrative coming outof the mouths of the influencers
going, big pharma, you know,they're just in the pocket.
(18:07):
The doctors are in the pocket ofbig pharma.
And as we know, um wellness isworth many, many, many times.
Yeah, I've been using thetrillions.
SPEAKER_01 (18:18):
Being in the pocket of um big pharma.
I caught a bus here today.
I didn't drive my Rolls Royce, Icaught a bus, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (18:25):
I'm I wish I was in the pocket of Big Pharma
something.
Yeah, but did you actually ownthat bus?
Is that the truth of it?
You're very wealthy, you own theB1.
SPEAKER_01 (18:32):
Yeah, but but but I let somebody else sit up the
front.
SPEAKER_00 (18:35):
It's really kind of you, Richard.
Yeah, when I get the bus, I dothe same thing.
It is my bus, but I'm like, yousit there and make yourself feel
important.
Yeah, or yeah, and all the GPs Iknow that are apparently, you
know, in the pocket of BigPharma, you know, they're
sitting on some pretty um bigmortgages.
SPEAKER_01 (18:54):
How about that?
SPEAKER_00 (18:55):
How about that?
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
How about then?
SPEAKER_00 (18:56):
But how how does this um imbalance, you know,
it's a big get into our brainsbecause it's so it's so
frustrating for me and sofrustrating for all us skeptics
and debunkers that we're hittingall up all the time against
(19:17):
these voices of certainty thatare that are sort of promoting
woo and dangerous things.
SPEAKER_01 (19:25):
Critical thinking in science is not natural and it's
not easy.
Whereas a simple message aboutthe evil's a big farmer is easy.
And have you heard ofBrandolini's law?
SPEAKER_00 (19:37):
Yes, but please explain it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:39):
Okay, this is more along the l along the lines of
uh it takes many times longer todebunk bullshit than it is to
say bullshit.
In other words, if somebody sayssomething ridiculous or wrong or
absolutely, it takes 30 seconds.
But if you want to unpack thatand explain why it's wrong, it
could take you know so long, andby the time you've done that,
(20:01):
people have left or gone.
SPEAKER_00 (20:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And also once yeah, I know thatonce a piece of disinformation
is out there, as you to yourpoint, even if you refute it,
the refutation doesn't stick,but the misinformation does.
SPEAKER_01 (20:15):
Well, the the great example of that would be um the
lie that vaccines can causeautism by Andrew Wakefield.
SPEAKER_00 (20:24):
Andrew Wakefield, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:26):
Completely retracted and found to be absolutely
wrong, uh scandalous, but it'sstill out there.
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
So just um in case some of our listeners aren't
aware, um Andrew Wakefield was adoctor, he's now been debarred,
hasn't he?
Yes, struck off.
Struck off.
Um and I he I think he had asample size of something like
nine or twelve children.
SPEAKER_01 (20:52):
Yeah, it was a bodgy study.
Uh he was also spruking his owncommercial interests and
everything like that.
As always.
As always.
As always.
Uh, but the the point is, ofcourse, it was retracted and and
debunked.
It it does it's not true.
But it persists in the in thelarge sections of the population
who who listen to theanti-vaxxes are still absolutely
(21:14):
convinced that vaccines causeautism, and now a large amount
of people will probably no doubtthink that paracetamol will
cause autism.
SPEAKER_00 (21:23):
Ah, so um on top of the vaccines.
Oh my god, RFK, what have wedone?
So now we've got RFK in charges.
SPEAKER_01 (21:34):
It's nonsense on stilts.
SPEAKER_00 (21:36):
It's just nonsense on stilts.
It's so dangerous what'shappening in America because now
not only um apparently do umvaccines cause autism according
to the health secretary inAmerica, but also paracetamol
causes it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:55):
Acetaminophid, paracetamol, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:58):
But then last week, apparently Trump had his health
report, and he's the he's thehealthiest president that's ever
been born.
Well, that's obvious.
It's obvious to me.
It's obvious to all of us justlooking at him, he's incredible.
Um that orange stand doesn'tcome from early, right?
Um and he's just beenvaccinated, had his flu shot,
and his covert shot.
So they all do, they're suchshocking hypocrites.
SPEAKER_01 (22:20):
Well, I you can't it's hard to pin anything on on
Mr.
Trump.
You know, it really is.
It's it's it's like they say uhtrying to nail jelly to a wall.
It's a bit strange.
But RFK Jr., yes, he's uh well,where do we start?
But let me just say it's notjust smart women who fall for
all this, it's smart men, it'ssmart everybody.
SPEAKER_00 (22:42):
And why do you think I mean we we talk about this a
bit, but I'd like yourperspective on it.
Um I know a lot of very, veryintelligent people, and
especially say, in the artisticcommunity, um, who absolutely
(23:02):
have a lot of magical thinkinggoing on, a lot of it.
So intelligence hasn't protectedthem.
Why do you think that is?
SPEAKER_01 (23:10):
Because it's part of our evolutionary history.
Unpack that all of us there aremany humans on the planet.
How many billions are?
You can imagine there's a hugevariety of um neural activity
going on up there.
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
Stuff in your brain.
Stuff in your brain.
SPEAKER_01 (23:28):
So you'll get people who are brilliant and
scientifically minded and goodcritical thinkers.
You'll get people who arebrilliant but susceptible to
magical thinking, you'll getpeople who are not very
brilliant particularly, but havelearned critical thinking.
The point is there's a range ofpeople.
We get back to why we're here,why we're here is because our
(23:49):
parents reproduced.
That's all that evolution caresabout.
You know, so critical thinkingand the scientific method are
uh, as we said, are relativelynew on the scene as far as our
species go, but our species wasgoing and uh before all that,
and it still goes.
Despite all the woo and themagic and the people being
(24:11):
ripped off and the bad advice,um, we still carry on as a
species.
So there's it's an interestingway to look at it, you know.
So I would hope that you know,in the in the centuries to come,
we'll fine-tune things.
You know, things will willsettle down, a lot of
superstitions will disappearbecause they always do.
(24:34):
If we keep going, yeah.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:35):
I heard somebody on there was a woman online, isn't
it?
She's saying, she was beinginterviewed, and she said, you
know, it's so beautiful.
I was um I was talking to Jesus,and apparently he's um he's
bought Charlie Kirk a ranch.
And um they were so Jesus andCharlie Kirk have been riding
(24:57):
horses together on a ranch, andCharlie's really happy anyway.
So she's saying that, and I'm II'm having to fan myself because
I'm like, oh my fucking god.
And then um the woman she was sothere was two women, right?
One was interview, someone wasinterviewing her, and the woman
that was interviewing her waswiping tears away and nodding in
this really sincere manner, andI was like, Do you do do you
(25:21):
actually believe that?
Do you actually believe that?
Or have you or are you making itup?
Like, I don't know, but theywere so sincere.
SPEAKER_01 (25:30):
You can't tell sometimes.
You really can't tell.
Uh, but the good news is, ofcourse, there are people like
you aiming your podcast ateverybody, not just smart women.
SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
Are you going to buy me a ranch though?
I'm just asking.
SPEAKER_01 (25:41):
You will.
Well, I'll buy you a ranchdressing, how about that?
For your salad.
And there are people like KateThomas, who are actively on
TikTok looking at this woo andsaying, here's the real deal.
SPEAKER_00 (25:53):
Okay, so Kate Thomas, um, who Richard and I
had the pleasure of going to theMind Body Body Spirit Festival
with, is a pharmacist and she ismarried to an oncologist.
Yeah.
And also my daughter was inattendance at that, and she's
also studied chemistry and she'sa lawyer, and she was walking
around going, They can't saythis, mum, they can't say it.
(26:14):
It's illegal, they can't saythis.
SPEAKER_01 (26:15):
Well, I've I've wanted Mind Body Spirit to be
rated for years.
SPEAKER_00 (26:19):
Yeah, but it's it's a resourcing thing.
SPEAKER_01 (26:20):
It's a resourcing thing, yeah.
It's it's just seen as sillylight entertainment.
Yeah, but there's very badthings happen there.
SPEAKER_00 (26:27):
Yeah, it's it's very bad.
So what so because sometimes,especially when RFK was elected.
I He wasn't elected, it wasn'telected.
No, no, correct.
Thank you for that question.
It's actually true.
When he came to power, I I justwanted to lie down.
I was like, Well, how do we gethere?
And then sometimes I get quite Ifeel like our voices that are
(26:52):
going, don't homeopathicallyvaccinate your child.
You can you can eat glutensafely unless you're um you know
unless you're a celiac.
Um, you know, dairy isn'tnecessarily the work of the
devil.
SPEAKER_01 (27:07):
And sunscreen is is good for you if you go in the
sun.
SPEAKER_00 (27:10):
Sunscreen is backlash against sunscreen.
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
A lot of people think it's it contains naughty
nanoparticles.
Oh, nanoparticles.
SPEAKER_00 (27:17):
And then there's people And they probably have
parasites, right?
Yeah, well that's the otherthing, is that of course
everything with the detoxing andthe amount of people, the amount
of like because I'm big I'm partof a gym community, and um, you
know, I hear the chat around meof the sort of women in their
20s and 30s, everybody'sfrigging detoxing, they're
(27:38):
having these special lemondrinks.
I'm like, is it what are youwhat your liver and kidneys do?
SPEAKER_01 (27:44):
Because they've been told by authority figures and it
makes sense.
From a common sense point ofview, it makes sense.
It's it's like the the suncoming up instead of the earth
going towards the body.
SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
So, how does detoxing make sense to explain
to me?
Because it doesn't make sense tome.
SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
Well just just on the face of it.
If if you're if you think you'vegot toxins, whatever they are in
your body, and this will get ridof them, that makes sense,
doesn't it?
It's a simple message.
SPEAKER_00 (28:08):
I'm t so I know I've got toxins because I'm maybe
tired.
But uh why do I think I've gottoxins?
I've been taught I've gottoxins.
SPEAKER_01 (28:16):
Are you feeling tired?
SPEAKER_00 (28:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:17):
It's probably toxins.
Is that you're feeling tired,right?
I am tired.
And you all the heavy metalsthat that build up in your blood
and your body.
Yeah, I do feel tired.
If you wear these foot patches,all the heavy metal are drawn
out through your feet.
Look, I can put them on yourfeet tomorrow morning you wake
up, they're all brown.
Proof positive.
That's another scam.
SPEAKER_00 (28:37):
Yeah, and yeah, so I I'm tired, or perhaps I'm you
know, tired and I've got a lotgoing on, perhaps I'm really
stressed.
SPEAKER_01 (28:46):
And we go to an authority figure for help.
SPEAKER_00 (28:48):
And so I go to a naturopath.
SPEAKER_01 (28:50):
Yep.
Who you believe knows whatthey're talking about.
SPEAKER_00 (28:54):
Well it's got the word naturopath, has nature
embedded in the word.
And we have a big bias towardsthings that are natural,
correct?
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
Correct.
Yeah, it's it's a it's a one ofthe best marketing campaigns
ever perpetrated on thepopulation.
SPEAKER_00 (29:08):
Why do we have a bias towards all natural?
Because it's friggingeverywhere, right?
What's the deal?
SPEAKER_01 (29:13):
The deal is it has the inherent promise of being
good.
Natural is good.
It's it's been just drilled intous, you know, where there in
truth natural is completelyindifferent to us.
You know, so nature can kill us,snake bites are natural, you
know, poo is natural.
SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
Brown bears.
SPEAKER_01 (29:33):
Brown bears, you know, arsenic.
Uh and we've spent the r thereason that we live such long
and healthy lives generally isbecause we fight against nature.
You know.
SPEAKER_00 (29:42):
See, isn't that the most fascinating?
SPEAKER_01 (29:46):
Again, it's counterintuitive, you see.
SPEAKER_00 (29:49):
Let's just look at that for a minute because you
know, the amount of marketing,you know, I live above a I live
above a woolies, and so I'm upand down, and also there's the
pharmacy.
Yo-yo loves Richard, by the way.
Yo-yo, who's genuinely veryleery of people, especially men,
has sat at his feet and lookedat him like he's a king and at
(30:11):
various points offered her poreand has now gone to sleep.
That's right.
So that's the magic of Richard.
Did you give her, did you slipher some?
Some homeopotheism.
Homeopathic vet stuff, right?
Um anyway, so I go up and downthese aisles.
And the word natural, natural,um additive-free, no artificial
(30:34):
colours.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:35):
It appears about no GMO, etc.
etc.
SPEAKER_00 (30:39):
Oh, no GMO.
SPEAKER_01 (30:41):
It's marketing, it's marketing, it's marketing.
That's how our society works.
It's capitalism, and to a pointyou can forgive and understand
that, and society stillfunctions.
But the the the wary buyer willrealize that that's just a
marketing campaign.
SPEAKER_00 (30:56):
So, Nate, this notion of I don't want to have
anything processed.
I mean, the the the backlashagainst processed food is just
stupid.
It's just ridiculous.
SPEAKER_01 (31:08):
Just just be aware of what you're eating.
Let's nice lots of nice healthyfruit and veggies and stuff like
that.
The odd processed foods.
SPEAKER_00 (31:18):
It's all right.
Fine, have a bicky.
You know, don't eat six Big Macsa day, but apart from that,
you're alright.
SPEAKER_01 (31:23):
I mean, yeah, generally speaking, again, our
population is healthier andlives longer than any at any
time in history.
So we've got to be doingsomething, right?
SPEAKER_00 (31:30):
And yet we've got this uh appeal to nature.
And the other big issue that Ihave is this notion of clean
eating.
It's everywhere.
You've got to clean eat.
Um, and I think clean eating,you know, it sounds like you've
got to dust the dirt off yourfood.
It's in fact not.
I think I think it's no gluten.
SPEAKER_01 (31:50):
Now maybe you you eat while you're cleaning.
SPEAKER_00 (31:52):
No clean eating like that.
You know, uh a sort of a washerin one hand and uh I don't know,
an apple in the other.
But I think it's no dairy, Idon't know what it is, it's no
dairy and it's nothingprocessed, and all this all that
happens from this, especially inwomen, from say the 20 to
mid-40s age bracket, is we endup with disordered eating.
(32:15):
And it's based on absolutelynothing.
SPEAKER_01 (32:17):
Well, I will make a comment about, and of course,
this is the Why Smart Womenpodcast, and you'll agree with
me that when we're at Mind BodySpirit, 75% of the attendees
there were women.
And why do you think that is?
Uh because what is there ismarketed to appeal, especially
to women.
So we are much more vulnerable.
Yeah, I mean, let's let's justsay, yeah, you you it's true.
(32:39):
Be not because it's no fault ofwomen, it's because that's where
the market is, and that peopleknow that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:46):
So the marketing towards women is much more
prevalent.
Yes.
Because we have I guess there'sthe hormonal thing because we,
you know, we've got the whole ummenstrual cycle and then the
menopause.
And I did notice that themenstrual cycle and menopause
was very heavily.
SPEAKER_01 (33:03):
I saw that too, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:04):
I just saw much because menopause is the new
black.
SPEAKER_01 (33:08):
And uh this hormonally balancing and a
hormonally balancing emotionfrom society that we women are
the caring, spiritual,nurturing, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
Which is, you know, there'salways a grains of truth in it,
all of this sort of stuff.
But then it's when you go there,you s you see that's oh, what a
great angle for marketing.
You know, buy this product, buythis herb, buy this.
SPEAKER_00 (33:27):
It'll it'll hormonally balance you and fix
your inflammation and stop youbloating.
Stop.
Oh, Richard, get onto it.
I need some of that.
You need some.
SPEAKER_01 (33:35):
But of course, on the upside is, as we all
discovered, there were nicethings to buy.
SPEAKER_00 (33:40):
I didn't like it.
SPEAKER_01 (33:41):
You didn't Kate bought some lovely clothes and
things you did.
SPEAKER_00 (33:45):
I couldn't do it.
I bought some chocolate and Lilysaid.
I bought chocolate because I wasreally hungry.
It's the only reason I boughtit.
Then Lily sidled up to mydaughter and she went, Why did
you buy that?
I said I was really hungry.
She went, It's vegan, mum.
And I went, ugh.
SPEAKER_01 (33:59):
But but as much as it freaked you out, you know
that you did the right thing invegan.
SPEAKER_00 (34:04):
I know I did the right thing because otherwise
it's this notion that we justsit around being endlessly
judgmental.
So it's interesting what you sayabout women, and I think that's
really relevant, that we aremeant to be the the this the um
nurturing spiritual um sort ofbeings, but we're also meant to
(34:27):
be thin, pretty, young, and nowwe're meant to be um because the
now the the code now for thin isfit.
SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
Is it strong?
Okay, okay, strong.
SPEAKER_00 (34:40):
Yeah, we don't talk thin, Richard.
We talk thin I have I haven'ttalked thin for years.
We haven't talked thin foryears, that's right.
But you you can talk strong now,you don't have to talk thin.
So there's all this codedlanguage.
So now the new thing is youdon't have to be thin, but you
can go to the gym and then youcan be really strong, but of
course you've got to do that,and then you've got to have 17
(35:02):
different sorts of proteinbecause everything, did you not
notice that everything isprotein?
SPEAKER_01 (35:07):
Everything is well, I thought everything was
parasites, but there you go.
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
No, well no, there's parasites that that really live
on the protein.
I don't know if they do.
I don't.
But every product, you just godownstairs to Woolworths, okay,
and you look at you look for theword protein, yeah.
It's everywhere.
SPEAKER_02 (35:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:22):
Now, we actually don't need that much protein.
It's not very good for ourkidneys and liver, apparently,
but it's absolutely everywhere.
Is that and the other thing thathas appeared on the shelves is
bone broth.
SPEAKER_01 (35:33):
There was bone brush at uh bone broth.
Bone broth.
Probably bone broth, but therewas also bone broth at Mind Body
Wallet too, wasn't there?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:41):
Yeah, so that's uh that's I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (35:43):
That's I think that detoxes.
Maybe it detoxes your parasites,you know.
If your parasites have detoxhave toxins in them, yeah.
They eat that you drink the bonebroth, it goes to the parasites
and then does what?
SPEAKER_00 (35:57):
It didn't it detoxes the parasites, but then they're
happy parasites.
Then they're happy, then theyget then they can go to the gym
and they don't have to get thin,they can just get strong.
So what you've got is parasiteswith really developed biceps.
Yeah, I think that's what'shappening.
So there's all this languagethat we have to cut as women
especially and men, but thispodcast is aimed at women, that
(36:19):
we have to cut through.
So if you see some of thislanguage around detoxing or um
anti-inflammatory or immuneboosting, or the word protein,
or the word bone broth, or theword organic, or the word GMO,
start thinking, or the wordnatural.
SPEAKER_01 (36:41):
I it's really it's it's incredibly difficult.
It really is.
We get back to the point thatscience and critical thinking is
a chore.
But uh the quick bit of adviceif you are out shopping and you
come across something like thisbone broth or whatever, Google
it plus the word skeptic orsceptical review.
At least thinking.
At least have a look.
(37:02):
You might find something writtenby the Committee for Skeptical
Inquiry or the AustralianSkeptics or some some credible
doctors saying, well, we'velooked at this, and here is what
we've found.
It's it's it will behoove you todo that.
SPEAKER_00 (37:15):
So you look up the word skeptic or sceptical
inquirer.
Can you look up the word scam?
I often look up scam.
SPEAKER_01 (37:23):
Yes.
Um I would probably opt forskeptical, but you can all you
can look for both simply becauseit's it's a bit laden, the word
scam.
Yeah, yeah.
We're skeptical.
Skeptical means that youhopefully you will find a
critical analysis.
(37:43):
Somebody who's looked at it notfrom a cynical point of view,
but from a skeptical point, aquestioning point of view.
What's really behind this, youknow?
SPEAKER_00 (37:52):
Yeah, so I think I think that's a really good thing
to do because it's verydifficult for us to make that
assessment.
I noticed that Kate and Lily, itwas quite easy for them to turn
a product over and look at theside of it and go, that doesn't
make sense.
Whereas I wouldn't know.
SPEAKER_01 (38:07):
Yeah, yeah, the general why would the general
public pub population know?
That's they stream in there bythe thousands, they don't have
that education.
SPEAKER_00 (38:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we need to start maybespreading the word that if you
see a product, what you can dois look up the word skeptic and
they will assess the claims.
You know, that one of the thebiggest claims I see on things
that will is it will boost yourimmune system.
SPEAKER_01 (38:32):
Yeah, it's a meaningless term.
It's meaningless.
SPEAKER_00 (38:34):
You don't want to boost your immune system.
SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
I'm surprised they haven't changed that to balance
because we all want a balancedimmune system.
Yeah, balanced brain.
But boost is a great wordbecause it It's got energy
behind it.
It's got energy, it's it'seasily understood, and you think
that it makes it better.
It's going to be better, but infact, you don't want to be able
to do it.
No, you don't want no, becausethat leads to things like
autoimmune disorders and thingslike that.
(38:58):
Which are the result ofoveractivity.
SPEAKER_00 (39:00):
So just think next time you see the word, you know,
boost your immune system, lookup skeptical and next the
sceptical inquirer and nextinquiry.
SPEAKER_01 (39:10):
Well, just just the word skeptical.
And in fact, that's a greatstart.
Everybody, uh, after you'velistened to this podcast, go to
and put in quotes boost yourimmune system, and then after
that, type in the word skepticalor sceptical review and see what
you find.
See what you find.
And you'll have a betterunderstanding of this
meaningless term.
SPEAKER_00 (39:28):
And I think we might do that every week, Harrison.
We might come up with a termlike organic or anti-GMO.
SPEAKER_01 (39:36):
Anti-GMO.
Parasites.
I I I you you put me on theparasites.
I you keep I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (39:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, I told you, and they werefalling out of me as I was
around the festival.
Well, I think we've coveredquite a lot.
What do you think about it?
SPEAKER_01 (39:48):
I think we've done very well indeed.
SPEAKER_00 (39:50):
And I think we have to keep going with our dual our
dual.
SPEAKER_01 (39:55):
Our Why Smart Women's Zone.
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (39:57):
Why Smart Women's Owner?
SPEAKER_01 (39:58):
The Why Smart Women's Own podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (39:59):
Well, I think that was very helpful.
So thank you so much for comingall the way to the Northern
Beaches and calming down yo-yo.
Yes, it's like again magicalhomeopathy drops that you
clearly put on her tongue.
I snuck them in.
You snuck them in, you sneakyRichard.
SPEAKER_01 (40:14):
And enjoy the files I've given you.
Folks, I've given Annie mycomplete archive of AltMed files
I've collected over the pastquarter of a century.
It's absolutely terrible.
You'll have nightmares watchingthis.
SPEAKER_00 (40:25):
I will.
I've I'm all I'm just as youknow, I've had to drink three
glasses of gin this morning justto get over two days ago.
So thank you so much, Richard.
Thank you.
Thank you so much, Harrison, asusual.
Um, and to all the listeners,stay safe, stay well, wherever
you are in the world, andremember, keep your critical
thinking hats on.
(40:46):
See you later.
Bye.
Thanks for tuning in to WhySmart Women with me, Annie
McCubbin.
I hope today's episode hasignited your curiosity and left
you feeling inspired by myanti-motivational style.
Join me next time as we continueto unravel the fascinating
layers of our brains and developways to sort out the fact from
(41:09):
the fiction and the over 6,000thoughts we have in the course
of every day.
Remember, intelligence isn'tenough.
You can be as smart as paint,but it's not just about what you
know, it's about how you think.
And in all this talk of whetheror not you can trust your gut.
If you ever feel unsafe, whetherit's in the street, at work, car
(41:31):
park, in a bar, or in your ownhome, please, please respect
that gut feeling.
Staying safe needs to be ourprimary objective.
We can build better lives, butwe have to stay safe to do that.
And don't forget to subscribe,rate, and review the podcast and
share it with your fellow smartwomen and allies.
(41:51):
Together we're hopefullyreshaping the narrative around
women and making betterdecisions.
So until next time, stay sharp,stay savvy, and keep your
critical thinking at shiny.
This is Annie McCubbin signingoff from White Smart Women.
See you later.
This episode was produced byHarrison Hest.
(42:12):
It was executive produced andwritten by me, Annie McCubbin.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com