November 26, 2025 • 32 mins
We talk with Emma Edwards about The Wardrobe Project, a year-long pause on clothes shopping that reveals how bias, body image, and culture fuel compulsive buying. The pause creates a new way to enjoy style without chasing constant newness.
• the no-buy year and why a full stop on shopping matters
• how hedonic adaptation keeps us stuck in the “newness” loop
• body image pressures and the polished ideal
• the clean girl trend, wellness purity and coded thinness
• fantasy self versus real self in our wardrobe choices
• practical ways to find joy using what you already own
• building an outfit album to retrain your eye
• confidence as practice, not purchase
And don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast and share it with your fellow smart women and allies
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
You are listening to the Why Smart Women Podcast, the
podcast that helps Smart Womenwork out why women typically
make the wrong decisions and howto make better ones.
From relationships, careerchoices, finances, to photo
jackets and tail smoothies.
Every moment of the day, we'remaking decisions.
Let's make a good point.
(00:21):
I'm your host, and you're acouple, and as a woman of the
curtain day, I've made my ownchairs really bad decisions.
I know this podcast has beenaround to save me from myself.
This podcast will give insightsinto the working of your own
brain, which will blow yourmind.
(00:44):
I acknowledge the traditionalowners of the land on which I'm
recording and you are listeningon this day.
Always was, always will be,Aboriginal land.
Well, hello, smart women, andwelcome back to the Why Smart
Women Podcast.
I am broadcasting today from DY,Northern Beaches, Sydney, New
(01:05):
South Wales, Australia.
And I am joined by a veryspecial guest today.
It's Emma Edwards.
And I have just had the absolutepleasure of consuming, I want to
know if pleasure's the wordreally, of consuming Emma's
book.
And Emma's book is called TheWardrobe Project.
(01:28):
Is that correct, Emma?
Hello, Emma.
SPEAKER_00 (01:31):
Hello, Annie.
Thank you for having me.
I hope that it was a pleasure toread, but now I'm nervous.
SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
Yeah, do be nervous.
Do be very, very nervous.
And Emma's in Melbourne.
How's the weather down there,Emma?
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
It's oh, it's been classic Melbourne.
It was raining and freezingearlier in the week, and I had
my heating on.
And today it's 27 and humid, Ibelieve.
SPEAKER_01 (01:49):
Yeah, that's it.
That's Melbourne for you.
Four seasons in one day.
Yeah.
So um, yeah.
So I got your book and then Iread it, and then I had to lie
down for I don't know, anextended period of time, whilst
(02:12):
I looked back over the last 45years of my life and began to
consider the sheer amount ofmoney that I have spent on
clothing.
And then on top of that, um, Ithen had to unpick the cognitive
(02:34):
biases that I had steadfastlyrefused to look at that had
resulted in me doing thisrelentless shopping.
And um, and then I thought tomyself, if I had read this book
um in my twenties or thirties,it might have been more helpful
(02:55):
than reading it now.
I'm somewhat substantiallydecades over that.
So um good on you for writingit, I think.
Um and any anybody out therethat is um like myself a a
relentless, compulsive shopperof clothes, you need to read
(03:19):
Emma's book really like quickly,like leave Myers, leave David
Jones, leave Witchery, exitCountry Road and immediately run
and buy Emma's book.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
That's the the best glowing review I've had so far.
So I'm so glad that you had tolie in a dark end room because
it hit home, not because youcould clearly tell that I
dropped out of English in year10.
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
Yeah, no, I could actually your writing is really,
really good and highlyaccessible.
And just, I don't know, Ithought it flowed, I thought it
flowed really, really well.
And I'm a huge consumer ofbooks, and I'm currently trying
to write one, and then thathappened as well.
I then read it and I and then Iwent, oh, also her writing's
(04:06):
really good.
So then it was like a double liedown whammy.
SPEAKER_00 (04:11):
You're too kind, thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (04:13):
Yeah, and then I and then I I don't know, then I
drank some wine and I was alittle bit better.
But um happens like that,doesn't it?
Yeah, it does.
But I I haven't I haven'tshopped since I read it, which
is not that impressive becauseit was only um yesterday.
SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
So let's you don't know how long it'll last.
It might it may pull you out ofyour next online shopping car.
You never know.
SPEAKER_01 (04:40):
I don't know.
I I figure I I uh yeah, man,it's just this classic thing,
isn't it?
That we, you know, here's me,right?
The big, you know, apparentlyexpert on critical thinking,
writing comedy books about it,because apparently I'm just so
all over it.
(05:01):
And um this bias that I had hadcompletely slipped through the
net.
So let's talk about the wardrobeproject.
I mean, I've read it, everybodyelse is going to read it, but
they haven't read it yet.
So maybe you can give a priceyon it and explain why you wrote
it.
SPEAKER_00 (05:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I wrote it um off the back of medoing this challenge for myself.
So at the end of 2022, Ithought, what if I went a whole
year without buying any clothes?
Not secondhand, not new, notrented, not see.
I'm having a little panic again.
Yeah, the op shoppers, the hivesstart to come out.
SPEAKER_01 (05:41):
So just to clarify, you went an entire year without
purchasing a single item ofclothing, even secondhand, yes,
or renting anything.
SPEAKER_00 (05:54):
Yes, I've I've rented things in the past, and I
did think, oh, you know, wouldthat be allowed?
Yeah, yeah, that would beallowed.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You could do that.
But I thought when I reallythought about what I was trying
to achieve, which was break upwith this obsession with newness
and this need to have novelty tohave any kind of enjoyment in my
outfit, I thought, uh, I'll justuse it as a way to break the
(06:19):
rules with a clean conscience.
And so I thought, no, let's justlet's just wear only what we
have and we'll cross every otherbridge when we come to it.
Because when I say I did this,people like to go, well, what if
you go to a cowardly?
To a wedding hall.
Yeah.
A wedding.
What if you need to go to acowboy themed party?
(06:39):
What will you do?
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (06:41):
That was that was my first thought.
What if you have to go to acowboy-themed party and you
don't have a vest and a sheriffbadge?
SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
I decided that because the only sort of real
thing I wouldn't have hadanything for would have been a
really specific dress code likethat, which doesn't tend to come
across my desk.
Um, or something like a blacktie where you do need like a
floor-length dress.
I don't have anything thatformal.
But I kind of thought, you knowwhat, if it happens, I'll cross
that bridge when I come to it.
(07:13):
I'll either make one exception,I'll borrow something, I'll rent
something.
Are you allowed to borrow?
I didn't, I would have allowedmyself to borrow.
I didn't purely because I don'thave many friends that have the
same size as me.
Um, so it wasn't something Icould do often.
But if I'd needed something andsomebody was offering me to
borrow it, then yeah, I wouldhave.
SPEAKER_01 (07:33):
Okay.
All right.
Okay.
So, you know, I'm incrediblypopular and I'm constantly
invited to our boy parties andballs and weddings.
I would have to shop.
No, I'm actually not.
So, um, all right.
So you've uh what wasinteresting for me, I mean, the
(07:55):
whole thing was fascinating, butstarting to look at the the
psychological drivers and alsothe societal pressures on us to
look a certain way and how thattranslates into, I don't know,
us feeling better aboutourselves because we've got
(08:15):
something new on, etc., etc.,etc., etc.
And also the link um withlooking polished and just having
to look a certain way and be acertain weight.
And it's all really connected,don't you think?
SPEAKER_00 (08:29):
Yeah, I mean, it really was for me.
Anybody that reads the book willknow that it does quite
vulnerably touch on body imageuh multiple times throughout the
book, because that was such abig driver of my clothing
consumption.
It was the way that I reconciledbeing in a bigger body in a
society that doesn't like biggerbodies very much.
Um, I have a degree of sizeprivilege that I can fit into
(08:50):
some stores, but a lot of storesI'm at that very top end where
they either don't carry my sizeor they do, but it's actually
two sizes smaller than that, sothere's no chance at all for
that.
It's vanity sizing still, right?
100%.
But I, you know, I do wear an 18usually, so there are some
mainstream stores that carrythat.
SPEAKER_01 (09:08):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (09:08):
Um, so just kind of I guess prefacing that I'm sort
of on the very bottom end of theplus size community.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
So you're saying you're on the bottom end of the
plus size community?
Yes.
Yep.
Yes.
And and what about that?
SPEAKER_00 (09:22):
It was, I guess I just sort of I say that because
everybody's experience in abigger body is different.
And this book reallyencapsulates what it felt like
for me.
And, you know, every generationis different as well.
Every generation has grown upwith different standards.
And you know, in the book, Isort of talk about how I I grew
up through the 90s and the earlynoughties, where you know, any
(09:43):
celebrity's body part was pickedup was picked apart, the amount
of cellulite that it is still isin, you know, you'd have across
those magazine spreads of whosecellulite was spotted on the
beach this summer, and thesebodies that were like a size 10
or 12 being called chubby.
And it really formed my view ofmyself and kind of instilled in
(10:06):
me that I had a body that was aproblem, and I needed to do
whatever I could to eitherchange that or dress it up.
Yeah, dress it up or hide it insome cases.
Yeah, and that became prettymuch the way that I I think
clothes became the currency Iused to like myself.
If I wanted to like myself, Icould pull this lever and get
(10:29):
some clothes, and that wouldgive me a short-term hit of
feeling good because the noveltywas sort of, I think I was sort
of misattributing the noveltyand the enjoyment that I got
from the newness and from theshopping to a positive feeling
about myself, which is why itwore off.
SPEAKER_01 (10:45):
Well, also, I mean, you you're you're right in the
middle of hedonic adaptation.
I just find hedonic adaptationfascinating that we we long, we
long for something, uh, and itis in the longing, not the
actual acquisition.
Yeah, that once we've actuallyacquired the thing, the wear-off
(11:09):
is quite rapid.
And that, of course, goes inmany, many, many contexts, does
it not?
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
It does.
And I I touched on that uh exactphenomenon in the book because I
sort of I noticed through otherwomen that I was talking to
about this about this clothingthing that this commonality is
that we have nothing to wear, wefeel like we have nothing to
wear.
SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
I have nothing to wear, it's true though.
SPEAKER_00 (11:32):
And so logically we buy more, but then when you
interrogate, has buying moreever made you feel like you have
something to wear?
SPEAKER_01 (11:40):
Temporarily, temporarily, it's only two.
In fact, you want to hear this.
So we were we sold our house.
Um, and it's only occurred to mesince reading your terrible
book.
So we sold our house uh I don'tknow, December last year and
moved into an apartment.
So my wardrobe.
Oh, yeah.
(12:01):
Um I didn't even think about it.
Anyway, I'm putting my clothesin the wardrobe, and I'm like,
what the hell?
I can't fit everything in here.
So then I I put half of it inbags and shoved it downstairs in
the storage.
And I'm looking through mywardrobe yes, and I'm like, why
is it so crowded in here?
I need more space as opposed togoing.
Hang on, maybe you don't needmore space.
(12:23):
Maybe you can stop acquiringclothes.
Anyway, in the middle of that, Ithought, where's that where's
that green Sassin B dress?
And I went, oh, hang on.
So I ran downstairs to thestorage and I had this massive
bag of dresses sitting downthere that I hadn't missed like
at all.
(12:43):
And also then couldn't fit in myalready over-crammed wardrobe.
And yet, and my friends willattest to this, I'm just the
worst at it.
If if there's something on, myI'll flick, I'll flick like
this, I'll flick.
Um, it's auditory.
Sorry, sorry, listeners.
I'm doing a flicking motion withmy right hand to sort of um show
(13:04):
that I'm looking through mywardrobe.
So I flick through my wardrobeand I go, there's nothing there.
There is literally nothing therethat is suitable or will make me
feel good.
And to the size, the size thing,um of course we're we're now in
(13:24):
this fixated period online wherewe're no longer talking thin,
we're talking fit, and we'retalking strong.
And of course, it's all bullshitbecause it's all still code for
thin.
Yeah, right.
They're not, you know, Lululemonis not putting their models in a
(13:47):
size 16, are they?
No.
So very occasionally, it's stillthe minority.
Oh, it's it it's very cursory,isn't it?
So um I just think we're stillso trapped in this sort of
patriarchal expectation of whatfemales should look like and how
(14:12):
we should present ourselves.
And I think we're still prettymuch in the thrall of this.
What do you think?
SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
Yeah, I agree.
And I think unfortunately, ifanything, with the size thing,
we're going backwards.
Um, we're sort of seeing theresurgence of thin being trendy,
100% social media.
We're seeing very moderniterations of those previous
magazine spreads I talked about.
And while it's always beenthere, we did have a brief
period where it felt like wewere making some progress.
(14:41):
But now it just feels like we'vetaken 10 steps back.
And you see it.
SPEAKER_01 (14:48):
I can see it.
Um, yeah, I can absolutely seeit, you know, every time I I
look at Instagram.
It's all, and except now all theyou know, weirdo influences that
I spend my life debunking andnow shoveling butter and raw
meat into themselves, don't evenget me started about the whole
(15:08):
freaking dietary thing.
And yet they're still, you know,they're still a size six.
You know, I don't I don't know.
I don't know.
The whole the whole thing isjust so screwed up.
So I think back back to thefashion thing, of course, we are
so good at motivated reasoning,are we not?
SPEAKER_00 (15:27):
Yes, we are.
I sort of found that it wasn'tso much the clothes that we're
drawn to, but the possibilitiesthat they hold.
And I've got a whole sort ofsection fairly early on in the
book about the stories hangingin our wardrobes and the
pathways that each thing in ourwardrobes took to get there.
SPEAKER_01 (15:46):
Give me an example of one of those stories if you
can.
SPEAKER_00 (15:48):
I can.
Well, a big one that comes upmany times in the book is the
fantasy self or the fantasyitems, and that's sort of this
big chunk of what I uncoveredduring my year-long challenge of
just how much of my buyingbehavior was motivated by trying
to be this fantasy version ofmyself that had all of these
(16:09):
qualities, all of these umphysical attributes that I
didn't have.
SPEAKER_01 (16:14):
And how so you hang on, you had a fantasy self that
has physical attributes and qulike what?
And qualities like what?
SPEAKER_00 (16:24):
I've observed that a lot of women have an image in
their head of what they wishthey looked like, and it's a
fairly consistent image.
So for me, it was somebody withquite a uh lean, um, you know,
back in the day in the UK wewould have called them leggy,
athletic body type, very slim,yeah, um, which is the
(16:44):
antithesis of what my body is.
I'm very curvy, I'm veryvoluptuous, I'm jiggly, as I
refer to myself as.
I have big boobs, I have a bigbum, and my fantasy was really
everything that I wasn't.
Yeah, sure.
And I would buy clothes with theintention of increasing my
proximity to that fantasy.
Yeah.
And I would buy clothes thatwould work well in my head in
(17:06):
the way I wanted to look, butthen on my body, not only not
look like me, but go reallycompletely against my body type
and my body composition and evenmy personality to a degree.
Um, because I'm quite sort ofbold and silly and loud and
colourful, you might say.
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
And what were the qualities that you so in the
fantasy self, you're sort oflean, leggy, athletic?
And what were the qualities thatthese clothes you thought would
infer upon you?
SPEAKER_00 (17:36):
It really comes down to that polished thing.
I I recognized in so manyconversations I was having that
this polished conversation comesup again and again and again.
And it's this sort of, you know,you're seeing it more online now
being talked about in the cleangirl aesthetic or the old money
aesthetic.
Yeah.
Very demure, very put together,very neat, very almost
(17:58):
disciplined, regimented.
And it's this sort of it'sconceptual, it means something
different to everybody.
But for me, that fantasy selfand her outfits and her
attributes were very neat andquiet and almost shrinking
myself, both in a size sense,but also in it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:16):
It also sort of seems to me to be heading
towards a sort of um right-wingconservative trad wife, in my
mind, where the woman is neat,small, obedient, pretty, stays
(18:38):
at home, cooks the meals whichshe probably can't eat, um,
takes care of the children, hassex on demand with her husband,
and doesn't really and isbeginning to lose her voting
rights because you vote as theas the male does.
Is there any correlation betweenthat and that sort of right wing
sort of retraction towards the50s?
SPEAKER_00 (19:00):
Yeah, I definitely think there is, especially when
we're talking about onlinetrends, which obviously are so
reflective of um what's going onin the rest of the world.
That rise of the clean girl sortof aesthetic is sort of, I think
that's picking up where we leftoff with that kind of 90s, um,
very critical of women's bodiestype thing.
That's really picking up andbringing it into this new period
(19:22):
of time where we're seeing therise of the far right, we're
seeing fascism and like hatehate commentary all over the
internet, very, very divided,very conservative values, as you
mentioned, the the trad wifetrend coming back.
I think everybody's sort of movetowards that thinness and that
cleanness and that polishednessand almost the erasure of
(19:44):
individuality.
I think that is reallyreflective of where we're at and
how fashion often mirrors whatelse is going on.
SPEAKER_01 (19:53):
That's so fascinating.
And within that clean, neat sortof aesthetic, do you also
include in that the trend forclean eating?
That sort of clean-I don't knowwhat it is.
I think you don't have friggingdairy or something.
I don't know, you oat milk, Idon't know what it is really
annoying, but it appears to besomething, but there's a lot of
(20:15):
use of the word clean.
SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
It's really coming, you really notice it coming
around again, and I think it'snow being sort of used as this
like health purity thing, likeit's definitely health purity
with the clean movement, 100%.
And it's all sort of fat phobiawrapped up in different
packaging.
SPEAKER_01 (20:34):
I agree.
I t I to I cannot agree anymorethat all of these trends that
are dressed up with these namesare all about thin.
A whole lot of them.
It's just that we can't saythin, so we we're gonna say
clean or we're gonna say fit orwe're gonna say strong or or
(20:55):
whatever, but it's all to dowith thin.
And it's interesting because Iam pretty much a standard 10.
Um, but I am as of course aswell, completely in the thrall
of a fantasy self.
SPEAKER_00 (21:14):
Tell me about yours.
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
Well, I'd I'd have really long skinny legs.
Yep.
Um, yeah, that's me.
I'd have really the top of me'sall right, but I've had the I'd
have really, really long skinnylegs.
My my hair would be reallyglossy and really easy to
manage.
(21:36):
Um, I'd be about 30 yearsyounger, right?
Um, and I could just wear shortsall the time and I'd be like
super relaxed.
Yeah, I'd be super relaxedbecause I'd have these really
long brown legs.
So I'd be super relaxed in likesandals and shorts.
Yeah.
And then I'd just be drifting,I'd be drifting around beaches,
(21:59):
I don't know, writing things innotebooks to just being being
really cool and interesting anddrinking margaritas.
That's sort of me.
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
Yeah.
It's funny how everybody hasthis sort of character that they
could describe who's got youknow, age and stage of life
comes into it, um, careerlifestyle comes into it.
A lot of the time, there'sfantasy um sort of lifestyles or
jobs, or you know, one of thewomen in the book who generously
shared their insights with me,she said that her fantasy self
(22:31):
came down to this kind ofemulation of this aesthetic
online that was the mum who'snot really a mum.
Mum doesn't look mum who doesn'tlook like a mum.
Yep.
And she's like, I'm a mum now,my identity has shifted, I'm
reconciling with that.
But at the same time, I feel allthis pressure to not look like
I'm a mum.
Don't look like a mum, glossy,not look like my life has
changed at all, not look like Ihave anything else going on.
SPEAKER_01 (22:52):
You've got to be a yummy mummy, right?
Of course, the yummiest.
And you've got to shift yourbaby fat within you know 12
weeks of giving birth to yourbaby.
SPEAKER_00 (23:02):
This is all back as well, yep, all the baby weight
stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (23:05):
All the all the bloody baby weight.
Oh my god.
So I okay, so we we understandto some degree the drivers
behind um why we do this.
So I was talking to someone theother day and she said to me, if
I um was a friend and she said,if I could just lose five kilos,
(23:30):
I know I'd be fine.
What does that mean?
Everything would be fine.
If I could lose five kilos,everything would be the same,
but you'd be five kilos lighter.
Yeah, but that that's that's thethat's the delusion of us all,
right?
If I lost five kilos, I'd beconfident and I'd I'd I'd be
like the sort of I'd be the sortof person that I want to be.
(23:51):
And I get that.
I get that we think that when Iget, when I get to this point,
then everything's going to befine.
And of course, this point thatwe have to get to is just so
external.
SPEAKER_00 (24:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (24:07):
It's so external.
So external.
SPEAKER_00 (24:09):
That's the most profitable lie that's ever been
sold, I think, that there's anend destination where you don't
feel insecure anymore.
That's the most profitable thingthat the patriarchy's ever sold.
Because when we believe that,when we believe that the feeling
of being confident, of beingdone trying to change, of being
happy, of being good enough,lies externally.
(24:30):
We can lose weight to get there,we can change our bodies to get
there, we can get uh buttimplants to get there, we can
buy products to get there, wecan do all kinds of as long as
the goalposts keep on moving,that's all that matters in terms
of in terms of um thecommercialization of our
insecurities.
And that for me, you know, Ihave always been a bit bigger, I
(24:53):
was always a bit like chunky inschool, speaking of that sort of
size thing.
But at one point in my life Idid lose about 20 kilos and I
was tiny.
Did I feel any any moreconfident?
Oh, for about a week wheneverybody kept praising me after
that.
SPEAKER_01 (25:07):
No, no, well, that's the hedonic adaptation, it makes
no difference.
You know, I've been fit fairlysmall my whole life, it makes
absolutely no difference.
And I think the thing is that weinfer on other people that we
perceive to be attractive oryoung or they've got really good
(25:29):
skin or really good hair or theperfect weight or or whatever.
We infer on them that they thisconfidence that they must
possess.
And of course, they don't.
No.
SPEAKER_00 (25:40):
And how bullshit is that that there's all these
standards, and even when youmeet them, you don't get to feel
like you have, you don't get torealize the benefits.
That's that's what's soridiculous about it all.
And what I uncovered during myyear, particularly for myself,
is that I realized that womenaren't actually seeing
(26:01):
themselves.
We're so caught up in seeingeverything that we're not and
everything that we're strivingto be, that we never really see
who we are.
And through the year, I wastaking pictures of my outfits
when I put something togetherthat I liked so that I could
refer back to a collection ofimages of myself when I felt
like I didn't know what to wearor was looking for an outfit.
I'd look back at my album.
(26:22):
And for the first time, all ofthe external places I would look
for a benchmark of what lookedgood were completely gone.
And I was only working with myimage of myself.
And I realized by the end of theyear that I saw myself
completely differently because Iwas actually aware of what I
looked like and I was able toneutralize the way I felt about
(26:43):
that and eventually build reallypositive feelings about the way
I looked.
SPEAKER_01 (26:47):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (26:48):
That's what gave me the free.
It's huge.
That one thing is what gave methe freedom to start enjoying
wearing my clothes because Ipreviously I'd only experienced
enjoyment through buying andconsuming.
Sure.
Because it gave me thatpossibility of changing myself.
SPEAKER_01 (27:02):
But when I was So has that lasted that sense, that
sense of um sort of acceptance?
SPEAKER_00 (27:08):
It has.
I did notice that the yearafterwards, as I was able to buy
things again, and I was, youknow, making sure that I was
making good decisions and tryingto be really mindful about the
things I did buy.
I did notice that it buyingagain and having those
possibilities again did almostlike it.
(27:30):
It's not that it came floodingback, but I could hear whispers
of it again.
And I thought, wow, that is thepull of consumption.
That is the impact of having allof these things available to us
to buy all the time.
SPEAKER_01 (27:42):
Hang on, hang on.
So not let's just go back overthat.
So not making purchases and onlyworking with what you had.
Yeah.
Um, so that robbed you of theopportunity to go into the
optimistic, optimistic spacewhere you go, I'm going to buy
(28:04):
this thing, and this thing isgoing to make me feel better or
feel something.
So you didn't, you were robbedof that optimistic notion.
So all you had was almost likejust an extension of who you
already were.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_00 (28:24):
Yeah.
And I could, you know, there's adifference between throwing on
my trackies and putting my hairin a bun and putting together a
nice outfit.
And when you can't buy anythingnew, you actually work on that
spectrum a lot more creatively.
If I've got uh, you know, it'smy birthday or I'm going to a
wedding or something, I haven'tgot that shortcut option of
(28:44):
going to buy something andautomatically feel good about
the way that I look because it'snew.
I've got to create that withwhat I have.
And that was really thedifference because I started to
experience joy in fashionoutside of shopping.
SPEAKER_01 (28:59):
Yeah.
So outside of the thrall ofconsumerism, it's so
interesting, Emma.
So you ended up just being,well, just being who you were.
And then from being without theadded optimism, you're just
looking at who you actually are.
And from that sprang this senseof actually getting to know
(29:22):
yourself.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_00 (29:23):
Yeah, well, I realized by the end of the year
it must have been October or so.
So I was rattling towards theend thinking, oh, I've I've
bloody done it.
I realized that my body imageand the the the way I was
looking at myself and the thingsI was saying to myself, that
inner critic that we have aboutthe way we look, yeah.
I realized that my body imagewas the best it had ever been,
(29:45):
even though I was the heaviest Ihad ever been.
And I thought that can't be acoincidence.
Wow.
Can't be a coincidence.
It's so interesting.
That's it.
And it's so funny because thatfeeling that I had of liking how
I looked had been what I'd beenchasing for.
So many years through weightloss, through shopping, through
buying, through fixing.
SPEAKER_01 (30:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:05):
And yet I found it through not doing any of those
things.
SPEAKER_01 (30:09):
Well, that was part one of my very, very interesting
interview with Emma Edwards inrelation to her book, The
Wardrobe Project.
Now we've identified that thissort of relentless shopping.
Um we've identified the biasesthat drive us to consistently
(30:31):
buy clothes when we don't needthem.
If you'd like to know what to doabout it and how to counter
that, then please tune in topart two of my Emma Edwards
interview.
Thanks for listening.
Bye.
Thanks for tuning in to WhySmart Women with me, Annie
McCubbin.
I hope today's episode hasignited your curiosity and left
(30:55):
you feeling inspired by myanti-motivational style.
Join me next time as we continueto unravel the fascinating
layers of our brains and developways to sort out the fact from
the fiction and the over 6,000thoughts we have in the course
of every day.
Remember, intelligence isn'tenough.
You can be as smart as paint,but it's not just about what you
(31:18):
know, it's about how you think.
And in all this talk of whetheror not you can trust your gut,
if you ever feel unsafe, whetherit's in the street, at work, car
park, in a bar, or in your ownhome, please, please respect
that gut feeling.
Staying safe needs to be ourprimary objective.
(31:39):
We can build better lives, butwe have to stay safe to do that.
And don't forget to subscribe,rate, and review the podcast and
share it with your fellow smartwomen and allies.
Together we're hopefullyreshaping the narrative around
women and making betterdecisions.
So until next time, stay sharp,stay savvy, and keep your
(31:59):
critical thinking hat shiny.
This is Annie McCubbin signingoff from Why Smart Women.
See you later.
This episode was produced byHarrison Hess.
It was executive produced andwritten by me, Annie McCubbin.
You are listening to the Why Smart Women Podcast, the
podcast that helps Smart Womenwork out why women typically
make the wrong decisions and howto make better ones.
From relationships, careerchoices, finances, to photo
jackets and tail smoothies.
Every moment of the day, we'remaking decisions.
Let's make a good point.
(00:21):
I'm your host, and you're acouple, and as a woman of the
curtain day, I've made my ownchairs really bad decisions.
I know this podcast has beenaround to save me from myself.
This podcast will give insightsinto the working of your own
brain, which will blow yourmind.
(00:44):
I acknowledge the traditionalowners of the land on which I'm
recording and you are listeningon this day.
Always was, always will be,Aboriginal land.
Well, hello, smart women, andwelcome back to the Why Smart
Women Podcast.
I am broadcasting today from DY,Northern Beaches, Sydney, New
(01:05):
South Wales, Australia.
And I am joined by a veryspecial guest today.
It's Emma Edwards.
And I have just had the absolutepleasure of consuming, I want to
know if pleasure's the wordreally, of consuming Emma's
book.
And Emma's book is called TheWardrobe Project.
(01:28):
Is that correct, Emma?
Hello, Emma.
SPEAKER_00 (01:31):
Hello, Annie.
Thank you for having me.
I hope that it was a pleasure toread, but now I'm nervous.
SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
Yeah, do be nervous.
Do be very, very nervous.
And Emma's in Melbourne.
How's the weather down there,Emma?
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
It's oh, it's been classic Melbourne.
It was raining and freezingearlier in the week, and I had
my heating on.
And today it's 27 and humid, Ibelieve.
SPEAKER_01 (01:49):
Yeah, that's it.
That's Melbourne for you.
Four seasons in one day.
Yeah.
So um, yeah.
So I got your book and then Iread it, and then I had to lie
down for I don't know, anextended period of time, whilst
(02:12):
I looked back over the last 45years of my life and began to
consider the sheer amount ofmoney that I have spent on
clothing.
And then on top of that, um, Ithen had to unpick the cognitive
(02:34):
biases that I had steadfastlyrefused to look at that had
resulted in me doing thisrelentless shopping.
And um, and then I thought tomyself, if I had read this book
um in my twenties or thirties,it might have been more helpful
(02:55):
than reading it now.
I'm somewhat substantiallydecades over that.
So um good on you for writingit, I think.
Um and any anybody out therethat is um like myself a a
relentless, compulsive shopperof clothes, you need to read
(03:19):
Emma's book really like quickly,like leave Myers, leave David
Jones, leave Witchery, exitCountry Road and immediately run
and buy Emma's book.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
That's the the best glowing review I've had so far.
So I'm so glad that you had tolie in a dark end room because
it hit home, not because youcould clearly tell that I
dropped out of English in year10.
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
Yeah, no, I could actually your writing is really,
really good and highlyaccessible.
And just, I don't know, Ithought it flowed, I thought it
flowed really, really well.
And I'm a huge consumer ofbooks, and I'm currently trying
to write one, and then thathappened as well.
I then read it and I and then Iwent, oh, also her writing's
(04:06):
really good.
So then it was like a double liedown whammy.
SPEAKER_00 (04:11):
You're too kind, thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (04:13):
Yeah, and then I and then I I don't know, then I
drank some wine and I was alittle bit better.
But um happens like that,doesn't it?
Yeah, it does.
But I I haven't I haven'tshopped since I read it, which
is not that impressive becauseit was only um yesterday.
SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
So let's you don't know how long it'll last.
It might it may pull you out ofyour next online shopping car.
You never know.
SPEAKER_01 (04:40):
I don't know.
I I figure I I uh yeah, man,it's just this classic thing,
isn't it?
That we, you know, here's me,right?
The big, you know, apparentlyexpert on critical thinking,
writing comedy books about it,because apparently I'm just so
all over it.
(05:01):
And um this bias that I had hadcompletely slipped through the
net.
So let's talk about the wardrobeproject.
I mean, I've read it, everybodyelse is going to read it, but
they haven't read it yet.
So maybe you can give a priceyon it and explain why you wrote
it.
SPEAKER_00 (05:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I wrote it um off the back of medoing this challenge for myself.
So at the end of 2022, Ithought, what if I went a whole
year without buying any clothes?
Not secondhand, not new, notrented, not see.
I'm having a little panic again.
Yeah, the op shoppers, the hivesstart to come out.
SPEAKER_01 (05:41):
So just to clarify, you went an entire year without
purchasing a single item ofclothing, even secondhand, yes,
or renting anything.
SPEAKER_00 (05:54):
Yes, I've I've rented things in the past, and I
did think, oh, you know, wouldthat be allowed?
Yeah, yeah, that would beallowed.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You could do that.
But I thought when I reallythought about what I was trying
to achieve, which was break upwith this obsession with newness
and this need to have novelty tohave any kind of enjoyment in my
outfit, I thought, uh, I'll justuse it as a way to break the
(06:19):
rules with a clean conscience.
And so I thought, no, let's justlet's just wear only what we
have and we'll cross every otherbridge when we come to it.
Because when I say I did this,people like to go, well, what if
you go to a cowardly?
To a wedding hall.
Yeah.
A wedding.
What if you need to go to acowboy themed party?
(06:39):
What will you do?
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (06:41):
That was that was my first thought.
What if you have to go to acowboy-themed party and you
don't have a vest and a sheriffbadge?
SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
I decided that because the only sort of real
thing I wouldn't have hadanything for would have been a
really specific dress code likethat, which doesn't tend to come
across my desk.
Um, or something like a blacktie where you do need like a
floor-length dress.
I don't have anything thatformal.
But I kind of thought, you knowwhat, if it happens, I'll cross
that bridge when I come to it.
(07:13):
I'll either make one exception,I'll borrow something, I'll rent
something.
Are you allowed to borrow?
I didn't, I would have allowedmyself to borrow.
I didn't purely because I don'thave many friends that have the
same size as me.
Um, so it wasn't something Icould do often.
But if I'd needed something andsomebody was offering me to
borrow it, then yeah, I wouldhave.
SPEAKER_01 (07:33):
Okay.
All right.
Okay.
So, you know, I'm incrediblypopular and I'm constantly
invited to our boy parties andballs and weddings.
I would have to shop.
No, I'm actually not.
So, um, all right.
So you've uh what wasinteresting for me, I mean, the
(07:55):
whole thing was fascinating, butstarting to look at the the
psychological drivers and alsothe societal pressures on us to
look a certain way and how thattranslates into, I don't know,
us feeling better aboutourselves because we've got
(08:15):
something new on, etc., etc.,etc., etc.
And also the link um withlooking polished and just having
to look a certain way and be acertain weight.
And it's all really connected,don't you think?
SPEAKER_00 (08:29):
Yeah, I mean, it really was for me.
Anybody that reads the book willknow that it does quite
vulnerably touch on body imageuh multiple times throughout the
book, because that was such abig driver of my clothing
consumption.
It was the way that I reconciledbeing in a bigger body in a
society that doesn't like biggerbodies very much.
Um, I have a degree of sizeprivilege that I can fit into
(08:50):
some stores, but a lot of storesI'm at that very top end where
they either don't carry my sizeor they do, but it's actually
two sizes smaller than that, sothere's no chance at all for
that.
It's vanity sizing still, right?
100%.
But I, you know, I do wear an 18usually, so there are some
mainstream stores that carrythat.
SPEAKER_01 (09:08):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (09:08):
Um, so just kind of I guess prefacing that I'm sort
of on the very bottom end of theplus size community.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
So you're saying you're on the bottom end of the
plus size community?
Yes.
Yep.
Yes.
And and what about that?
SPEAKER_00 (09:22):
It was, I guess I just sort of I say that because
everybody's experience in abigger body is different.
And this book reallyencapsulates what it felt like
for me.
And, you know, every generationis different as well.
Every generation has grown upwith different standards.
And you know, in the book, Isort of talk about how I I grew
up through the 90s and the earlynoughties, where you know, any
(09:43):
celebrity's body part was pickedup was picked apart, the amount
of cellulite that it is still isin, you know, you'd have across
those magazine spreads of whosecellulite was spotted on the
beach this summer, and thesebodies that were like a size 10
or 12 being called chubby.
And it really formed my view ofmyself and kind of instilled in
(10:06):
me that I had a body that was aproblem, and I needed to do
whatever I could to eitherchange that or dress it up.
Yeah, dress it up or hide it insome cases.
Yeah, and that became prettymuch the way that I I think
clothes became the currency Iused to like myself.
If I wanted to like myself, Icould pull this lever and get
(10:29):
some clothes, and that wouldgive me a short-term hit of
feeling good because the noveltywas sort of, I think I was sort
of misattributing the noveltyand the enjoyment that I got
from the newness and from theshopping to a positive feeling
about myself, which is why itwore off.
SPEAKER_01 (10:45):
Well, also, I mean, you you're you're right in the
middle of hedonic adaptation.
I just find hedonic adaptationfascinating that we we long, we
long for something, uh, and itis in the longing, not the
actual acquisition.
Yeah, that once we've actuallyacquired the thing, the wear-off
(11:09):
is quite rapid.
And that, of course, goes inmany, many, many contexts, does
it not?
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
It does.
And I I touched on that uh exactphenomenon in the book because I
sort of I noticed through otherwomen that I was talking to
about this about this clothingthing that this commonality is
that we have nothing to wear, wefeel like we have nothing to
wear.
SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
I have nothing to wear, it's true though.
SPEAKER_00 (11:32):
And so logically we buy more, but then when you
interrogate, has buying moreever made you feel like you have
something to wear?
SPEAKER_01 (11:40):
Temporarily, temporarily, it's only two.
In fact, you want to hear this.
So we were we sold our house.
Um, and it's only occurred to mesince reading your terrible
book.
So we sold our house uh I don'tknow, December last year and
moved into an apartment.
So my wardrobe.
Oh, yeah.
(12:01):
Um I didn't even think about it.
Anyway, I'm putting my clothesin the wardrobe, and I'm like,
what the hell?
I can't fit everything in here.
So then I I put half of it inbags and shoved it downstairs in
the storage.
And I'm looking through mywardrobe yes, and I'm like, why
is it so crowded in here?
I need more space as opposed togoing.
Hang on, maybe you don't needmore space.
(12:23):
Maybe you can stop acquiringclothes.
Anyway, in the middle of that, Ithought, where's that where's
that green Sassin B dress?
And I went, oh, hang on.
So I ran downstairs to thestorage and I had this massive
bag of dresses sitting downthere that I hadn't missed like
at all.
(12:43):
And also then couldn't fit in myalready over-crammed wardrobe.
And yet, and my friends willattest to this, I'm just the
worst at it.
If if there's something on, myI'll flick, I'll flick like
this, I'll flick.
Um, it's auditory.
Sorry, sorry, listeners.
I'm doing a flicking motion withmy right hand to sort of um show
(13:04):
that I'm looking through mywardrobe.
So I flick through my wardrobeand I go, there's nothing there.
There is literally nothing therethat is suitable or will make me
feel good.
And to the size, the size thing,um of course we're we're now in
(13:24):
this fixated period online wherewe're no longer talking thin,
we're talking fit, and we'retalking strong.
And of course, it's all bullshitbecause it's all still code for
thin.
Yeah, right.
They're not, you know, Lululemonis not putting their models in a
(13:47):
size 16, are they?
No.
So very occasionally, it's stillthe minority.
Oh, it's it it's very cursory,isn't it?
So um I just think we're stillso trapped in this sort of
patriarchal expectation of whatfemales should look like and how
(14:12):
we should present ourselves.
And I think we're still prettymuch in the thrall of this.
What do you think?
SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
Yeah, I agree.
And I think unfortunately, ifanything, with the size thing,
we're going backwards.
Um, we're sort of seeing theresurgence of thin being trendy,
100% social media.
We're seeing very moderniterations of those previous
magazine spreads I talked about.
And while it's always beenthere, we did have a brief
period where it felt like wewere making some progress.
(14:41):
But now it just feels like we'vetaken 10 steps back.
And you see it.
SPEAKER_01 (14:48):
I can see it.
Um, yeah, I can absolutely seeit, you know, every time I I
look at Instagram.
It's all, and except now all theyou know, weirdo influences that
I spend my life debunking andnow shoveling butter and raw
meat into themselves, don't evenget me started about the whole
(15:08):
freaking dietary thing.
And yet they're still, you know,they're still a size six.
You know, I don't I don't know.
I don't know.
The whole the whole thing isjust so screwed up.
So I think back back to thefashion thing, of course, we are
so good at motivated reasoning,are we not?
SPEAKER_00 (15:27):
Yes, we are.
I sort of found that it wasn'tso much the clothes that we're
drawn to, but the possibilitiesthat they hold.
And I've got a whole sort ofsection fairly early on in the
book about the stories hangingin our wardrobes and the
pathways that each thing in ourwardrobes took to get there.
SPEAKER_01 (15:46):
Give me an example of one of those stories if you
can.
SPEAKER_00 (15:48):
I can.
Well, a big one that comes upmany times in the book is the
fantasy self or the fantasyitems, and that's sort of this
big chunk of what I uncoveredduring my year-long challenge of
just how much of my buyingbehavior was motivated by trying
to be this fantasy version ofmyself that had all of these
(16:09):
qualities, all of these umphysical attributes that I
didn't have.
SPEAKER_01 (16:14):
And how so you hang on, you had a fantasy self that
has physical attributes and qulike what?
And qualities like what?
SPEAKER_00 (16:24):
I've observed that a lot of women have an image in
their head of what they wishthey looked like, and it's a
fairly consistent image.
So for me, it was somebody withquite a uh lean, um, you know,
back in the day in the UK wewould have called them leggy,
athletic body type, very slim,yeah, um, which is the
(16:44):
antithesis of what my body is.
I'm very curvy, I'm veryvoluptuous, I'm jiggly, as I
refer to myself as.
I have big boobs, I have a bigbum, and my fantasy was really
everything that I wasn't.
Yeah, sure.
And I would buy clothes with theintention of increasing my
proximity to that fantasy.
Yeah.
And I would buy clothes thatwould work well in my head in
(17:06):
the way I wanted to look, butthen on my body, not only not
look like me, but go reallycompletely against my body type
and my body composition and evenmy personality to a degree.
Um, because I'm quite sort ofbold and silly and loud and
colourful, you might say.
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
And what were the qualities that you so in the
fantasy self, you're sort oflean, leggy, athletic?
And what were the qualities thatthese clothes you thought would
infer upon you?
SPEAKER_00 (17:36):
It really comes down to that polished thing.
I I recognized in so manyconversations I was having that
this polished conversation comesup again and again and again.
And it's this sort of, you know,you're seeing it more online now
being talked about in the cleangirl aesthetic or the old money
aesthetic.
Yeah.
Very demure, very put together,very neat, very almost
(17:58):
disciplined, regimented.
And it's this sort of it'sconceptual, it means something
different to everybody.
But for me, that fantasy selfand her outfits and her
attributes were very neat andquiet and almost shrinking
myself, both in a size sense,but also in it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:16):
It also sort of seems to me to be heading
towards a sort of um right-wingconservative trad wife, in my
mind, where the woman is neat,small, obedient, pretty, stays
(18:38):
at home, cooks the meals whichshe probably can't eat, um,
takes care of the children, hassex on demand with her husband,
and doesn't really and isbeginning to lose her voting
rights because you vote as theas the male does.
Is there any correlation betweenthat and that sort of right wing
sort of retraction towards the50s?
SPEAKER_00 (19:00):
Yeah, I definitely think there is, especially when
we're talking about onlinetrends, which obviously are so
reflective of um what's going onin the rest of the world.
That rise of the clean girl sortof aesthetic is sort of, I think
that's picking up where we leftoff with that kind of 90s, um,
very critical of women's bodiestype thing.
That's really picking up andbringing it into this new period
(19:22):
of time where we're seeing therise of the far right, we're
seeing fascism and like hatehate commentary all over the
internet, very, very divided,very conservative values, as you
mentioned, the the trad wifetrend coming back.
I think everybody's sort of movetowards that thinness and that
cleanness and that polishednessand almost the erasure of
(19:44):
individuality.
I think that is reallyreflective of where we're at and
how fashion often mirrors whatelse is going on.
SPEAKER_01 (19:53):
That's so fascinating.
And within that clean, neat sortof aesthetic, do you also
include in that the trend forclean eating?
That sort of clean-I don't knowwhat it is.
I think you don't have friggingdairy or something.
I don't know, you oat milk, Idon't know what it is really
annoying, but it appears to besomething, but there's a lot of
(20:15):
use of the word clean.
SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
It's really coming, you really notice it coming
around again, and I think it'snow being sort of used as this
like health purity thing, likeit's definitely health purity
with the clean movement, 100%.
And it's all sort of fat phobiawrapped up in different
packaging.
SPEAKER_01 (20:34):
I agree.
I t I to I cannot agree anymorethat all of these trends that
are dressed up with these namesare all about thin.
A whole lot of them.
It's just that we can't saythin, so we we're gonna say
clean or we're gonna say fit orwe're gonna say strong or or
(20:55):
whatever, but it's all to dowith thin.
And it's interesting because Iam pretty much a standard 10.
Um, but I am as of course aswell, completely in the thrall
of a fantasy self.
SPEAKER_00 (21:14):
Tell me about yours.
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
Well, I'd I'd have really long skinny legs.
Yep.
Um, yeah, that's me.
I'd have really the top of me'sall right, but I've had the I'd
have really, really long skinnylegs.
My my hair would be reallyglossy and really easy to
manage.
(21:36):
Um, I'd be about 30 yearsyounger, right?
Um, and I could just wear shortsall the time and I'd be like
super relaxed.
Yeah, I'd be super relaxedbecause I'd have these really
long brown legs.
So I'd be super relaxed in likesandals and shorts.
Yeah.
And then I'd just be drifting,I'd be drifting around beaches,
(21:59):
I don't know, writing things innotebooks to just being being
really cool and interesting anddrinking margaritas.
That's sort of me.
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
Yeah.
It's funny how everybody hasthis sort of character that they
could describe who's got youknow, age and stage of life
comes into it, um, careerlifestyle comes into it.
A lot of the time, there'sfantasy um sort of lifestyles or
jobs, or you know, one of thewomen in the book who generously
shared their insights with me,she said that her fantasy self
(22:31):
came down to this kind ofemulation of this aesthetic
online that was the mum who'snot really a mum.
Mum doesn't look mum who doesn'tlook like a mum.
Yep.
And she's like, I'm a mum now,my identity has shifted, I'm
reconciling with that.
But at the same time, I feel allthis pressure to not look like
I'm a mum.
Don't look like a mum, glossy,not look like my life has
changed at all, not look like Ihave anything else going on.
SPEAKER_01 (22:52):
You've got to be a yummy mummy, right?
Of course, the yummiest.
And you've got to shift yourbaby fat within you know 12
weeks of giving birth to yourbaby.
SPEAKER_00 (23:02):
This is all back as well, yep, all the baby weight
stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (23:05):
All the all the bloody baby weight.
Oh my god.
So I okay, so we we understandto some degree the drivers
behind um why we do this.
So I was talking to someone theother day and she said to me, if
I um was a friend and she said,if I could just lose five kilos,
(23:30):
I know I'd be fine.
What does that mean?
Everything would be fine.
If I could lose five kilos,everything would be the same,
but you'd be five kilos lighter.
Yeah, but that that's that's thethat's the delusion of us all,
right?
If I lost five kilos, I'd beconfident and I'd I'd I'd be
like the sort of I'd be the sortof person that I want to be.
(23:51):
And I get that.
I get that we think that when Iget, when I get to this point,
then everything's going to befine.
And of course, this point thatwe have to get to is just so
external.
SPEAKER_00 (24:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (24:07):
It's so external.
So external.
SPEAKER_00 (24:09):
That's the most profitable lie that's ever been
sold, I think, that there's anend destination where you don't
feel insecure anymore.
That's the most profitable thingthat the patriarchy's ever sold.
Because when we believe that,when we believe that the feeling
of being confident, of beingdone trying to change, of being
happy, of being good enough,lies externally.
(24:30):
We can lose weight to get there,we can change our bodies to get
there, we can get uh buttimplants to get there, we can
buy products to get there, wecan do all kinds of as long as
the goalposts keep on moving,that's all that matters in terms
of in terms of um thecommercialization of our
insecurities.
And that for me, you know, Ihave always been a bit bigger, I
(24:53):
was always a bit like chunky inschool, speaking of that sort of
size thing.
But at one point in my life Idid lose about 20 kilos and I
was tiny.
Did I feel any any moreconfident?
Oh, for about a week wheneverybody kept praising me after
that.
SPEAKER_01 (25:07):
No, no, well, that's the hedonic adaptation, it makes
no difference.
You know, I've been fit fairlysmall my whole life, it makes
absolutely no difference.
And I think the thing is that weinfer on other people that we
perceive to be attractive oryoung or they've got really good
(25:29):
skin or really good hair or theperfect weight or or whatever.
We infer on them that they thisconfidence that they must
possess.
And of course, they don't.
No.
SPEAKER_00 (25:40):
And how bullshit is that that there's all these
standards, and even when youmeet them, you don't get to feel
like you have, you don't get torealize the benefits.
That's that's what's soridiculous about it all.
And what I uncovered during myyear, particularly for myself,
is that I realized that womenaren't actually seeing
(26:01):
themselves.
We're so caught up in seeingeverything that we're not and
everything that we're strivingto be, that we never really see
who we are.
And through the year, I wastaking pictures of my outfits
when I put something togetherthat I liked so that I could
refer back to a collection ofimages of myself when I felt
like I didn't know what to wearor was looking for an outfit.
I'd look back at my album.
(26:22):
And for the first time, all ofthe external places I would look
for a benchmark of what lookedgood were completely gone.
And I was only working with myimage of myself.
And I realized by the end of theyear that I saw myself
completely differently because Iwas actually aware of what I
looked like and I was able toneutralize the way I felt about
(26:43):
that and eventually build reallypositive feelings about the way
I looked.
SPEAKER_01 (26:47):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (26:48):
That's what gave me the free.
It's huge.
That one thing is what gave methe freedom to start enjoying
wearing my clothes because Ipreviously I'd only experienced
enjoyment through buying andconsuming.
Sure.
Because it gave me thatpossibility of changing myself.
SPEAKER_01 (27:02):
But when I was So has that lasted that sense, that
sense of um sort of acceptance?
SPEAKER_00 (27:08):
It has.
I did notice that the yearafterwards, as I was able to buy
things again, and I was, youknow, making sure that I was
making good decisions and tryingto be really mindful about the
things I did buy.
I did notice that it buyingagain and having those
possibilities again did almostlike it.
(27:30):
It's not that it came floodingback, but I could hear whispers
of it again.
And I thought, wow, that is thepull of consumption.
That is the impact of having allof these things available to us
to buy all the time.
SPEAKER_01 (27:42):
Hang on, hang on.
So not let's just go back overthat.
So not making purchases and onlyworking with what you had.
Yeah.
Um, so that robbed you of theopportunity to go into the
optimistic, optimistic spacewhere you go, I'm going to buy
(28:04):
this thing, and this thing isgoing to make me feel better or
feel something.
So you didn't, you were robbedof that optimistic notion.
So all you had was almost likejust an extension of who you
already were.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_00 (28:24):
Yeah.
And I could, you know, there's adifference between throwing on
my trackies and putting my hairin a bun and putting together a
nice outfit.
And when you can't buy anythingnew, you actually work on that
spectrum a lot more creatively.
If I've got uh, you know, it'smy birthday or I'm going to a
wedding or something, I haven'tgot that shortcut option of
(28:44):
going to buy something andautomatically feel good about
the way that I look because it'snew.
I've got to create that withwhat I have.
And that was really thedifference because I started to
experience joy in fashionoutside of shopping.
SPEAKER_01 (28:59):
Yeah.
So outside of the thrall ofconsumerism, it's so
interesting, Emma.
So you ended up just being,well, just being who you were.
And then from being without theadded optimism, you're just
looking at who you actually are.
And from that sprang this senseof actually getting to know
(29:22):
yourself.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_00 (29:23):
Yeah, well, I realized by the end of the year
it must have been October or so.
So I was rattling towards theend thinking, oh, I've I've
bloody done it.
I realized that my body imageand the the the way I was
looking at myself and the thingsI was saying to myself, that
inner critic that we have aboutthe way we look, yeah.
I realized that my body imagewas the best it had ever been,
(29:45):
even though I was the heaviest Ihad ever been.
And I thought that can't be acoincidence.
Wow.
Can't be a coincidence.
It's so interesting.
That's it.
And it's so funny because thatfeeling that I had of liking how
I looked had been what I'd beenchasing for.
So many years through weightloss, through shopping, through
buying, through fixing.
SPEAKER_01 (30:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:05):
And yet I found it through not doing any of those
things.
SPEAKER_01 (30:09):
Well, that was part one of my very, very interesting
interview with Emma Edwards inrelation to her book, The
Wardrobe Project.
Now we've identified that thissort of relentless shopping.
Um we've identified the biasesthat drive us to consistently
(30:31):
buy clothes when we don't needthem.
If you'd like to know what to doabout it and how to counter
that, then please tune in topart two of my Emma Edwards
interview.
Thanks for listening.
Bye.
Thanks for tuning in to WhySmart Women with me, Annie
McCubbin.
I hope today's episode hasignited your curiosity and left
(30:55):
you feeling inspired by myanti-motivational style.
Join me next time as we continueto unravel the fascinating
layers of our brains and developways to sort out the fact from
the fiction and the over 6,000thoughts we have in the course
of every day.
Remember, intelligence isn'tenough.
You can be as smart as paint,but it's not just about what you
(31:18):
know, it's about how you think.
And in all this talk of whetheror not you can trust your gut,
if you ever feel unsafe, whetherit's in the street, at work, car
park, in a bar, or in your ownhome, please, please respect
that gut feeling.
Staying safe needs to be ourprimary objective.
(31:39):
We can build better lives, butwe have to stay safe to do that.
And don't forget to subscribe,rate, and review the podcast and
share it with your fellow smartwomen and allies.
Together we're hopefullyreshaping the narrative around
women and making betterdecisions.
So until next time, stay sharp,stay savvy, and keep your
(31:59):
critical thinking hat shiny.
This is Annie McCubbin signingoff from Why Smart Women.
See you later.
This episode was produced byHarrison Hess.
It was executive produced andwritten by me, Annie McCubbin.
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