October 1, 2025 • 39 mins
Ever tried to share a life when your partner’s best hour is your worst? We dive into the everyday friction of two people on different clocks—one of us a sunrise exerciser who thrives on routine, the other a late-day creative who hits stride when the world winds down. Along the way we challenge wellness overpromises (no, stress doesn’t cause 99% of illness), keep the real science on movement and ageing, and get honest about how habits actually form: fewer pep talks, more smart design.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
You are listening to the why smart women podcasts.
The podcast is helped smartwomen work out why we typically
make the wrong decisions and howto make better work.
Wrong relationships, careerchoices, finances, objectives,
and failed movies.
Every moment of every day, we'remaking decisions.
Let's make those workers.
(00:21):
I'm your host and you're acolour, and as a woman of a
certain age, I've made my owncareers really bad decisions.
I don't know.
And I wish this podcast has beenaround to save me from myself.
This podcast will give insightsinto the working of your own
brain, which will blow yourmind.
(00:44):
I acknowledge the traditionalowners of the land on which I'm
recording and you are listeningon this day.
Always was, always will be,Aboriginal land.
Well, hello, smart women, andwelcome back to the Wise Smart
Women Podcast.
Today I am broadcasting from DYSydney, New South Wales,
Australia.
(01:05):
Um, and I am here in our littlestudio looking out in a
beautiful spring day.
It's nearly the end of the firstmonth of spring and things are
really heating up here inSydney.
It's going to be delicious.
Um and today I'm talking toDavid.
Hello, David.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
Hello, everybody.
Hello, Annie.
How are you going?
SPEAKER_00 (01:23):
Um I'm good, thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:24):
Yes.
Do you feel do you feel sort ofprepared with a with a with a
bee in your bonnet for this umthis particular episode?
SPEAKER_00 (01:33):
I have no bee.
SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
What?
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
There is no bee in my bonnet.
SPEAKER_01 (01:36):
I reckon I reckon I reckon you're better when you
when when you you've got the beein the bonnet and you know what
it is.
SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
It's like what are you complaining about today?
SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
Alright, well, I thought we could talk about what
I thought was we could talkabout when the rhythm that
people operate in when they'rein a relationship is different.
SPEAKER_01 (02:02):
When what like like when two people have two
different rhythms.
Yes.
Oh, I can see where this isheaded.
Yeah, okay.
Where do you think it's headed?
Going into the Well well, youknow, where we where we where we
tell a story about one personwho has a terrific rhythm, you
know?
They're they're they're anhonorary member of the 5 a.m.
club.
They rise early, they brushtheir teeth, they get into their
(02:23):
Lululemon and off they go andthey do a hit.
SPEAKER_00 (02:25):
I don't wear Lululemon.
SPEAKER_01 (02:27):
What?
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
I do not wear Lululemon.
SPEAKER_01 (02:29):
Oh right, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (02:30):
Um What are the other ridiculous um I'm not
going to advertise a brand on mypodcast, but I don't wear
Lululemon.
SPEAKER_01 (02:38):
Okay, but how what made you think that I was
speaking a little bit?
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
Can I tell you why I don't wear Lululemon?
SPEAKER_01 (02:43):
Why did you wear Lululemon?
SPEAKER_00 (02:44):
Thanks for asking.
Because there was this all thissignage um outside their one of
their branches, their shops, andone of the things said 99% of
all illnesses is caused bystress.
And that is not true.
Oh, ooh, they uh stresscontributes to some things, but
(03:05):
it is not responsible foreverything.
It's a ridiculous thing to say.
And then they're implying thatum of course you could
ameliorate this stress and neverever have anything wrong with
you by exercising.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
Yeah, okay.
And that's a that's that's athat's a distortion of a truth,
isn't it?
I mean, you know, um exercisingis very good for you.
If there was a pill that youwould take that would cure all
ills and it had um all thebenefits of exercise, then you'd
take that.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
Yeah, it is an amazing thing.
It's but it's the overblowing ofit.
It's it's the simplicity.
The overpromise.
It's the overpromise, it's asimplification.
Um, you know, babies getterrible illnesses, people get
terrible illnesses, got nothingto do with stress.
So uh yes, but back to exercise.
SPEAKER_01 (03:47):
So this is a values-based decision.
Not to wear Lululemon becausethey distort the stress.
Yeah, it annoyed me.
Okay, yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (03:53):
It really irritated me.
SPEAKER_01 (03:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:55):
It's pretty easy to irritate me with advertising.
What are you looking at?
SPEAKER_01 (03:58):
Yeah, yeah.
I was just saying if there was alabel on it, if I could identify
what you were actually wearing.
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Um, I'm not telling you what I'm wearing.
I'm not advertising it.
SPEAKER_01 (04:07):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (04:07):
To my millions of followers.
Yes.
Anyway.
SPEAKER_01 (04:11):
There'd be a run on the share market or something
like that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:14):
Everybody buy everybody buying LKSD or
whatever it is.
I do wear LKS D.
L S K D.
SPEAKER_01 (04:19):
Did I get that right?
L S K D?
What are those letters standfor?
I don't know.
L S K D.
Anyway.
Lucy in the sky with a kangarooshaped diamond.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (04:29):
Sorry, so the thing is, of course, exercise has um
extraordinary impacts on allsorts of illnesses.
It it it it um it helps withyour cardiovascular system.
It certainly can assist indelaying or actually not
developing some cancers.
It helps with your mentalhealth.
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
Yeah, dementia as well, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00 (04:51):
Uh yeah, there's a lot of evidence about it.
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
Um I think you you you you you you gave me a uh the
you know the tip of the icebergof a study the other day about
how what is it, high intensityexercise really reduces the
likelihood that you'll get.
SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
It reduces it by by by a percentage.
A percentage.
So 90%.
It's not 90%.
Okay, sorry.
So I, as you know, um my motherdeveloped dementia late, but
still I would rather not succumbto Alzheimer's.
So um, yeah, and I exercise fora lot of reasons.
(05:26):
But talking about exercise.
SPEAKER_01 (05:27):
That's right.
So that's that's where we kindof started with this.
We talked about the twodifferent rhythms, and one
person gets up in the morningand they get into their no-brand
um exercise wear and they go offand they do a workout, and then
they have lovely social timewith their friends, and we know
that that's good for you.
SPEAKER_00 (05:43):
That's really distracting me, you're email.
SPEAKER_01 (05:45):
Oh, okay.
I'll turn it off.
SPEAKER_00 (05:47):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (05:48):
Yeah, we were we we we were comparing the different
rhythms and routines of people,and yes, you could have a person
who gets up in the morning,exercises, socializes, does all
of that, then comes home andthen gets gets gets to work.
Yeah, that's me.
That's that's a bit like you.
Ah, and then um, you know, youdo your work throughout the day,
(06:09):
and then we'll have dinner, andthen you know, something will
happen after dinner.
It it might be an episode of thegifted No, it might be an
episode of the Gilded Age.
SPEAKER_00 (06:18):
Why are you talking about the whole day?
We're not talking about thewhole day.
SPEAKER_01 (06:21):
No, we are talking about the whole day because I
know what you're gonna say.
You're gonna say, okay, theother person who doesn't bounce
out of bed at Sparrow's Fart,um, you know, gets started a bit
more slowly during the day, hitsgolden hour, you know, roughly
between, you know, four and fivein the afternoon, um, and has
got plenty of energy and ideasto then work late into the
(06:42):
night.
Which is what I tend to do.
SPEAKER_02 (06:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
When you go to sleep.
So, um you return from the gymand you see me sort of, you
know, starting my day.
SPEAKER_00 (06:55):
Yeah, but then you say things, you say things to me
like, oh, I wish I could get upand exercise and I wish I could.
Well, uh that's the bit that I'mtalking about because it sort of
implies that it's easy for meand difficult for you, and that
(07:17):
and I don't know if that's true.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
Well, hang hang hang on a second.
If I say, gee, I wish I, youknow I wish I was in your
rhythm, you know?
Your rhythm is really terrific,you know.
I wish I I wish I could, youknow, get up in the morning,
have my exercise, you know, domy thing.
Oh, why don't you why don't I?
Okay.
Because well why do you why doyou think I don't?
SPEAKER_00 (07:37):
I'm interested.
No, but no, no.
SPEAKER_01 (07:39):
Oh, you've you've definitely got a you've got a
you've got an idea.
You've got an answer thatquestion.
That's right.
So that's why I am master.
No, I don't want to do that.
What is going on in your brain?
SPEAKER_00 (07:49):
I th I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
I don't think I don't think it's very
flattering.
I think you come into the roomand go, oh, you know, you lazy
loser.
SPEAKER_00 (07:56):
I do not walk into the room and go, you lazy loser.
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
You're lazy loser, yeah.
I mean, you know, that we we wewe know so many stories of uh,
you know, men of a certain age.
Um, you know, they start to slowdown a little bit, they become
completely useful and just siton the couch all day.
SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
Useless, not useful.
SPEAKER_01 (08:12):
Oh, sorry, useless, yeah.
They become useless, they sit onthe couch all day.
SPEAKER_00 (08:15):
I don't know these men.
SPEAKER_01 (08:16):
Oh, come on.
We've we we've we've we've hadanecdotal, you know, sharing.
SPEAKER_00 (08:23):
We've told stories about people who are No, those
men were use useless in to startoff with.
SPEAKER_01 (08:29):
Really?
SPEAKER_00 (08:29):
I think so.
SPEAKER_01 (08:30):
What do you think you think some some are some are
born useless, some haveuselessness thrust upon them.
And um and what's the other one?
SPEAKER_00 (08:39):
Look, we know there's there's been this big
study out in America um thatsaid that for most women that
single women um that areattempting to get back into the
dating game, however m whatevermethod, that mostly the men are
a negative influence on theirlife.
SPEAKER_01 (08:58):
Oh.
What so don't bother?
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
Don't bother.
Well, that's what they're sortof saying that there's a lot of
Well, that's what the um umburned haystack.
Anybody who's online dating umshould definitely look at the
burned haystack method and go toum and and join them.
SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
Is it joined uh uh burnt haystack.com?
SPEAKER_00 (09:21):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (09:21):
What's the URL?
How do how do people find it?
I guess people could look it up.
SPEAKER_00 (09:24):
No, that's okay.
We'll put it in the show notes.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (09:26):
Um burnt haystack, and what's the name of the lady?
SPEAKER_00 (09:28):
Burned haystack method.
Yep.
And um the name is Jenny, hername is Jenny Young, and she
studies the applied rhetoric ofthe language that men use
online, and by the study of thelanguage, she ascertains whether
or not they should block andburn or whether they should
(09:50):
entertain the the um thepossibility that the person's
okay.
SPEAKER_01 (09:53):
Block and burn.
SPEAKER_00 (09:54):
Yeah, just get rid of them, don't go near them.
And that what apparently,according to her, and I I do
think it's right, you can workout if somebody is n is like not
going to work, but you can'twork out if somebody is.
So it just takes out the peoplethat are definitely a no-no, and
you're still left trying to workout if the ones that you've sort
of let through and uh entertainthe possibility of whether or
(10:16):
not they're good is anotherthing entirely.
SPEAKER_01 (10:17):
And what does Jenny Young use to evaluate whether
these men are going to be a netgain or a net?
SPEAKER_00 (10:22):
Applied rhetoric.
She analyses the language.
Applied rhetoric.
So she it's honestly, I won't gointo it too much, but do do look
it up, especially if you'redoing online dating.
She analyses the language andthere's things that are embedded
in the language that give thegive the game away, you know, if
they're over controlling or ifthey consider themselves to be a
prize or whatever.
(10:43):
Yeah.
It's very, very interesting.
But uh I I digress.
SPEAKER_01 (10:46):
Is that is that is that the gentleman who says, you
know, look, I should let youknow that when I get into a
relationship with somebody, youknow, probably my greatest
weakness is I care too much.
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Yeah, that crap.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (10:55):
All right, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:56):
Okay.
Anyway.
SPEAKER_00 (10:57):
Note yourself, don't use that everywhere.
Don't use that language.
Or are you on the dating?
Are you in the dating scene?
I care too much.
You care too much.
SPEAKER_01 (11:04):
Like I need that complication in my life.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
That's right.
So anyway, back to this notionof different rhythms.
Or different rhythms anddifferent I mean.
Yeah.
So I mean look I mean you'realso really messy.
I mean the the We are well, weare look at where we're sitting.
No, do you know what I think memessy.
SPEAKER_01 (11:23):
Do you know what?
What you that's that's yourthing.
I th I think we're both equallymessy, you and I.
Gee, I wish this was on video.
You should have seen Annie'sface change then.
I think that we are we have sortof equal equal sort of um uh
sensibilities around thecreation of mess.
Uh it just happens that I happento be very good at actually
still being able to operateinside mess to do the things
(11:45):
that need to be done.
Whereas if something's notright, um, it tends to distract
you and you grind to a halt.
Like uh a few minutes ago youmade me turn off the um uh one
of the computer screens becauseit was distracting you.
Yeah?
I wish you could see Annie'sface at the moment.
She she's looking at me.
Let me let me let me describeit.
(12:06):
Her lips are slightly pursed,she's smiling.
I don't want to smile.
Her nose is all wrinkled.
I'm in trouble.
No, but I mean I look, I I I I Iget I get your daily rhythms.
You find it easy to wake upearly and go to go to sleep
early.
And yeah, look, I don't findthat easy.
Um I I I want to keep going atthe end of the day, so I wake up
(12:27):
a little later, I get up alittle later, I get started a
little later, but you know, Ipick up speed.
And if I'm doing it in a roomthat's not, you know, perfectly
tidy.
SPEAKER_00 (12:35):
It's not that it's not perfectly tidy, I focus on
what needs to be done, and it'snot a it's not a car crash.
SPEAKER_01 (12:42):
It's a little bit of a car crash, I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (12:45):
Can we go back to the bit where we're equally
messy?
SPEAKER_01 (12:48):
Yeah, okay, yeah.
Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_00 (12:49):
Thanks.
That'd be great.
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
I'm I'm I'm glad because because because very
rarely do we ever get to go tothat place where we acknowledge
the fact that we're equallymessy.
SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
What do I do?
So I okay, I go to the gym.
I mean, I'm sure there's otherpeople out there that are
listening to this that canrelate to this.
So I go to the gym, yeah, comehome, and you know what I spend
the next two.
SPEAKER_01 (13:06):
Tremendously admirable.
What?
SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
What do I when I come home and I do?
SPEAKER_01 (13:10):
Are you are you saying you you come and tidy up
for two hours?
SPEAKER_00 (13:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:14):
For two hours?
SPEAKER_00 (13:16):
Put the washing on, I make the bed, I clean the
bathroom, I unstack thedishwasher, I restack it, I put
all the clothes that you've leftin the lounge room, I come and
put them away.
SPEAKER_01 (13:25):
And and at the moment, are you amassing a uh,
you know, a a a column of of allof the work that you do
comparing it to mine.
Well in terms of Which isnegligible.
SPEAKER_00 (13:34):
No, no, just in terms of tidying up.
SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:36):
I uh look, we're in a very we're in a smaller space
now, right?
SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
Yes, yes, we are.
SPEAKER_00 (13:42):
And so it we should see Yo Yo's face.
SPEAKER_01 (13:45):
Yep, she's on my side.
So she witnesses this.
SPEAKER_00 (13:49):
If you leave something, anything out.
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
Yes, if you leave it out.
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
So when you were on that call this morning, that
coaching call.
Yeah, yeah.
Did you notice when you werewhen you left the very messy
place that we're sitting in now,which is the studio.
Yeah, yeah.
But I left the studio.
That the kitchen I'd restackedthe dishwasher, that I'd
restacked the stuff to go onthere, that I'd cleaned up the
that I'd cleaned up the loungeroom, that I'd made the bed,
that I'd put everything away.
SPEAKER_01 (14:11):
The room was reassuringly ordered when I when
I walked back into it.
That was great.
Thank you for doing that.
SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
See, this is this is why women just want to live with
other women.
I swear to God.
SPEAKER_01 (14:23):
Okay, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (14:24):
So it's like me saying it's like me saying that
I am equally um that that mycapacity to um to get my head
around tech is about the same asas yours, but I just don't do as
much of it.
Um that is not true.
You are clearly uh eons ahead ofme when it comes to tech and
(14:48):
understanding anythingtechnical.
SPEAKER_01 (14:49):
Yeah, well that's I mean that's but that's because
I've had more flying hours.
You know, I just I'd say same ascleaning.
I've spent more That's right.
Now, those of you who have umyou know perhaps read Annie's
books um or have listened toearlier episodes um of this
podcast, you'll come across thisthing called the availability
bias.
SPEAKER_00 (15:05):
Um and I'm actually going to smack you on the head
with that with that thing thatyou left on the ground that you
should have put away.
SPEAKER_01 (15:13):
And it's twin sister, the confirmation bias.
And um, you know, s some mightargue, in fact, I think if if if
we look closely at the at thefurrows on Yo-Yo's brow at the
moment, um she would she wouldbe thinking to herself, yeah,
when I'm here and Annie's nothere, um David does an enormous
amount of of stacking thedishwasher and unstacking the
(15:33):
dishwasher and cleaning clothesand putting them out.
Um and um generally speaking,when he does that stuff, it's
invisible to Annie because allshe notices is when things are
left out.
I don't know.
I'm just telling you what Yoyo'sthinking at the moment.
I'm not saying that this is thetruth.
SPEAKER_00 (15:51):
Oh my actual God.
SPEAKER_01 (15:54):
But that's how it works.
Isn't the purpose of the podcastbeing able to understand what
what these cognitive errors are?
It's like if I empty thedishwasher, you don't notice.
SPEAKER_00 (16:06):
Isn't that true?
So every woman that's listeningto this will know that that you
are using my own frameworks thatI discovered against me.
SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
And and now you're you're gendering the
conversation by saying everywoman would know what?
SPEAKER_00 (16:22):
This it's a very gendered conversation.
There is a gender difference.
SPEAKER_01 (16:26):
Availability bias and confirmation bias are
available to all of us.
SPEAKER_00 (16:31):
Okay.
So let let's let's leave themessiness aside.
Let's leave that aside.
Okay, okay.
And let's go back because thatis clearly To the exercise
thing.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:43):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (16:43):
I know I'm annoying.
I know for 100% I am like areally um annoying um Girl Scout
mistress.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:56):
I know that.
SPEAKER_01 (16:57):
Okay.
Do you do you know how annoyingyou are?
SPEAKER_00 (16:59):
No, probably not.
SPEAKER_01 (17:00):
No, do you know how rigid you are in your own?
Probably not.
Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (17:03):
Yeah.
Well that's that's that's that'sa good starting point, anyway.
Thanks, David.
Fuck me.
The thing is, I guess it comesdown to in terms of your health
and wellness.
I can't believe I use the wordwellness.
Um that in order to sort of getthrough the last, I don't know,
(17:25):
three decades, we need to beeating properly and exercising
and etc, etc.
And um I I think you're erraticat it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:37):
Erratic.
SPEAKER_00 (17:38):
Erratic.
SPEAKER_01 (17:38):
Erratic.
What, so I don't get into arhythm?
SPEAKER_00 (17:41):
Uh no, I don't think you do, do you?
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Um Lo I look, I wouldn't say that I'm in a
rhythm at the moment.
I wouldn't say that I'm in theperfect rhythm at the moment.
SPEAKER_00 (17:50):
With other things going on at the moment, there
are other things that are sortof understandable.
SPEAKER_01 (17:52):
But you know, look, there have been times in my life
when I've woken up with thedawn, gone for a run.
SPEAKER_00 (17:57):
But it's rare.
SPEAKER_01 (17:57):
Swam across No, no, I'm saying Are you gonna talk
about Manley Dam?
SPEAKER_00 (18:01):
Because do you know how long ago that was?
Lily was four.
And you were rising and swimmingacross Manley Dam.
Lily was four, she's 28 now.
SPEAKER_01 (18:12):
There was a period in my life.
SPEAKER_00 (18:15):
Okay, well, you know, it's it's yeah.
Um and you still talk about itlike it was sort of Oh, I don't.
SPEAKER_01 (18:21):
That's this is the first time I've mentioned it in
19 years.
But um I look, you know, if I ifI was to say, you know, what
what what's a period in my lifewhen I was actually doing what I
think you want me to do?
Okay, that would be it.
Look, there were times when Iwent to, I don't know, the gyms
early in the morning.
And I'm not doing it at themoment.
(18:42):
Yeah, I know that.
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
Yeah, but it's not I mean, is it I guess it it this
whole thing comes down to um notwho's right or wrong, but what
what is behind drive anddiscipline and personality.
SPEAKER_01 (18:59):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (19:00):
And that's a much more interesting conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (19:02):
Okay, so if if if we're talking about a um uh a
general trend around what didyou say?
SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
Well I'm thinking the thing that so behavior is to
do with the way you're what dothey say?
You know, we we end up with asort of a personality type, the
way you're raised, the thegenetics that you bring with you
and the culture you exist in,right?
Yeah.
So and they're now saying thatactually personality is not
fixed.
So something like umconscientiousness, which is one
(19:31):
of the big five in inpersonality, you actually can um
improve on conscientiousness.
That extroversion, which umunfortunately, and I'm not
saying there is anything wrongwith introversion because
introverts are the people thatactually notice what's going on
because extrovert extroverts aretoo busy blathering on.
But it's true.
That's one definition.
SPEAKER_01 (19:51):
Yeah, but the DSM, extroversion, people who like
blathering on.
That's where you get your energyfrom.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So uh but they they're nowsaying that things like that
they would have thought werefixed, so the big five
personality, which is openness,conscientiousness, extroversion,
agreeability, and neuroticism,that actually you can, some of
them can be, you can play aroundwith them and increase areas
(20:21):
that you might want to increase.
Like for instance, if you'revery introverted, you can put
yourself, expose yourself tosituations where you are more
extroverted becauseunfortunately there is data that
suggests that you ex i if you'reextroverted, there are some life
outcomes which are better nothaving a go at introverts.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:40):
Um what about neuroticism?
Are you saying that if someone'shigher in neuroticism?
You could reduce it, you canwork on its own.
SPEAKER_00 (20:46):
You can reduce neuroticism and also for your
bucket list.
Yeah.
And one of the big ones isconscientiousness.
Um that you can actuallyincrease your conscientiousness.
SPEAKER_01 (21:00):
How do you how do you define conscientiousness?
SPEAKER_00 (21:02):
So the quality of wishing to do one's work or duty
well and thoroughly.
Um and I'll put it in a sentencehis conscientiousness is second
to none, and he regularly makesfollow-up calls to ensure
everything is going well.
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
There you go.
He wants to he he he wants to doa good job.
And also so um He wants to get agood night's sleep so that when
he's working on somethingimportant, he's got all of his
um faculties available to him.
SPEAKER_00 (21:27):
I guess.
Oh, what is the so th as I justsaid, the big five personality
traits, one of them isconsciousness, and it says that
the conscientiousness traitshows how thoughtful,
goal-oriented, and controlledsomeone is.
Those who are more conscientioustend to be more self-disciplined
and persistent.
Those who rank lower inconscientiousness tend to prefer
(21:48):
spontaneity and procrastination.
So that's the that's the thingabout and then what they're
saying.
I just listened to a reallyinteresting thing on it, that
conscientiousness can beimproved if you find yourself
sort of erratic and morespontaneous by finding something
that really matters to you andthinking, I really want to
achieve that.
SPEAKER_01 (22:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So I'm curious.
Yeah.
Um on a scale ofconscientiousness, say from one
to five, you know, five being,you know, really, really keen
thinking about doing a good job.
SPEAKER_00 (22:17):
Yeah, you would be up there on five.
Okay, what where where are you?
I'm on five.
I think we're both I think we'reboth on highly conscientious.
Really?
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
So conscientiousness isn't something that's going to
influence whether you get up inthe morning and go to the gym or
not.
If you think that I'mconscientious and I sleep late,
you know, I'm I'm basically anight owl.
Yeah, that's right.
That's one of the other classes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:35):
When you apply yourself to a job, when I apply
myself to a job You'reincredibly conscious.
SPEAKER_01 (22:39):
Yeah, like if we've got a if we have to be on site
at seven o'clock in the morning,then I'll be up at five and
checking the equipment andmaking sure that it's all of
that.
SPEAKER_00 (22:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
Um, but yes, you know, given my druthers, I'd
probably rather, you know, sleeplater.
And then when I get to, youknow, ten thirty at night,
eleven, you know, and I getinterested in something, then I
tend to follow that thatinterest.
Now is that a lack ofconscientiousness or am I No, I
wasn't saying you Or am I beinga night owl?
SPEAKER_00 (23:04):
No, I wasn't saying you didn't have
conscientiousness.
I think you're very um I thinkyou're spontaneous.
I think you follow I mean Ithink that's part of the ADHD
profile, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (23:15):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
You want to find something that's interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
That's right.
When we run out of dopamine wego looking for something that'll
trigger it.
SPEAKER_00 (23:21):
Yeah, that's right.
So no, I don't I don't see youas having a lack of
conscientiousness um at all.
Not at all.
Do you think I've got a lack ofconscientiousness?
SPEAKER_01 (23:32):
Oh look Oh, you shouldn't have paused.
Yeah, well no, I mean look ffirst answer was was was no.
Um but but then then I worrythat maybe I'm I'm approval
seeking and I should havethought about it for a second.
So conscientiousness.
No, look when you're given in asituation, when you are in a
situation where you have theopportunity to do the right
thing, um, then absolutely youdo it, and without a lot of
(23:53):
drama.
Um although that said, you know,you will like when I come back
in, you you you will let me knoweverything that you've done,
yeah, so that I notice, youknow, so so that I know that
it's got nothing to do withconscientiousness.
SPEAKER_00 (24:08):
I've just I just think that women's work is
undervalued.
SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
Yep, yep.
Do you know that do you knowthat I I actually make a point
of not telling you what I'vejust done?
SPEAKER_00 (24:16):
I know we've had this conversation before.
Well maybe you should because II I still think in terms of our
application to inside the housethat you're less focused on it.
I just think that's the truth.
So start telling me.
SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
But yeah, but then it's a little bit like, you
know, I have to I have to reportback to Annie that I'm being a
um, you know, uh a worthycontributor to the household.
SPEAKER_00 (24:40):
And um Well, maybe you should.
Why don't you tell me?
Why would why would wh what Ihave to report to you?
No, it's not about reporting.
SPEAKER_01 (24:48):
You know, you're you're starting to you know be a
bit blur.
What will I get a badge?
I've already said that.
Will I get the dishwasher scalp?
Exactly.
You know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
It's no surprises there.
SPEAKER_01 (24:56):
So so so so maybe we can have a you know an a a note
on the fridge, and every time Ido something I can get a star.
And when I get five stars, yeah,then I get to um be rewarded in
some way.
Yeah, that's true.
You know, I get to have an extraCornetto or something.
SPEAKER_00 (25:08):
Oh Cornetto would be nice.
SPEAKER_01 (25:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
Um so so anyway, back to this.
SPEAKER_01 (25:13):
No, but is it right that that that that a
relationship like ours that Ishould be, you know.
I mean, yes, you can have yourpoint system with your children,
um, to to keep, yes, the thingsthat they need to do around the
house top of mine, but surelynot not your intimate partner,
not your husband or your wife.
It's like if I was, you know,could you imagine what it was
like if I if I was scoring youon your driving?
SPEAKER_00 (25:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:37):
You wouldn't like that.
SPEAKER_00 (25:38):
Not a different different context.
SPEAKER_01 (25:40):
Okay.
If I was scoring you on, youknow, the appropriateness of
your your your your attire whenyou leave the house.
SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
Well, that's a different context.
It doesn't even count.
You're feeling bringing upcontexts which are irrelevant.
SPEAKER_01 (25:50):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (25:51):
Um We're talking about application.
SPEAKER_01 (25:53):
Application, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:54):
We're talking here about application and dispersal
of domestic tasks.
SPEAKER_01 (26:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
And general a general sense of needing order
or not needing order.
I need order.
You do not need order.
SPEAKER_01 (26:08):
I like order.
SPEAKER_00 (26:08):
Oh, yes.
Yeah, yeah.
You don't need order.
You can sit in this room whichhas got 17 layers of clothes
around the camera equipment andyou're fine.
SPEAKER_01 (26:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:19):
That's true, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (26:20):
Well, 17 layers.
SPEAKER_00 (26:23):
Don't don't don't count the layers.
SPEAKER_01 (26:25):
Okay, alright.
SPEAKER_00 (26:26):
Anyway, so back to this notion of okay, okay, okay,
okay, if I had all the time inthe world.
No, that's not right.
That is not right.
SPEAKER_01 (26:32):
That's that's what do you think?
SPEAKER_00 (26:34):
No, that's not right.
It is not about time.
It's it's about the definitelyyou could go, I'll do this
before I do this.
But what uh but but but I'll dothis before I go for a swim.
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
If you say that that doesn't exist, then how do you
account for the you know the thethe authentic thought pattern
that I have in moments where Igo, gee, I'm glad I've got
enough time to do this properly.
You know, I'll do this tidy upin a way whereby everything is
better organized than it everwas before.
SPEAKER_00 (27:01):
Why can't you just do it on a basic level?
Why does it have to beextraordinary?
SPEAKER_01 (27:04):
Well, you see, the thing is that I do do it on a
basic level and I just don'ttell you about it.
Yeah, good, that's great.
Um I do do it on a basic level.
Who's the one that getsdistracted?
And he just picked a battery upoff the table and announced it.
I've found that.
Um Yeah.
If I if I if I just get on withit and do it, then you don't
notice.
SPEAKER_00 (27:24):
Anyway, we're not going to get anywhere with this.
SPEAKER_01 (27:26):
Let's go back to the notion of Unless I try and get
my five stars so I can get mybrown owl badge.
SPEAKER_00 (27:31):
Brown owl.
Yeah.
That's right.
But I'd forgotten about brownowl.
I don't know if everybody inother countries has the um the
cub and girl guide system, butwe did.
Man.
SPEAKER_01 (27:41):
Did you have a brown owl?
SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
Yeah, yeah, and I got a lot of badges because I'm
a goody two shoes.
SPEAKER_01 (27:46):
Because you're high on conscientiousness.
Yeah, but anyway, listen.
And letting people know thatyou've done a good job.
SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
Anyway, David.
SPEAKER_01 (27:55):
Annie.
SPEAKER_00 (27:56):
Back to this notion of see for for me the idea of
exercising and eating properlyis to do with health and then
living a longer life.
SPEAKER_01 (28:06):
Staving off dementia.
SPEAKER_00 (28:09):
Yeah.
Good quality, longer life.
And then I worry that you areerratic with your eating and
your exercise and that you won'tlive as long.
SPEAKER_01 (28:19):
Yeah.
Well, so do you know what do youknow what they do what they um
they think is um is uh is muchmore dangerous?
SPEAKER_00 (28:29):
Nagging people.
SPEAKER_01 (28:30):
Yeah, yeah.
Um stress.
I read somewhere the other daythat 90% of all ailments are
caused by stress.
SPEAKER_00 (28:36):
No, 99.
SPEAKER_01 (28:38):
Oh, 99%, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:39):
99% are caused by no annoying people that you live
with.
SPEAKER_01 (28:42):
I mean, if only I had something to wear when I
went to the gym, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (28:46):
If I had if I had if I had some nice, nice, nice
active wear to Oh, you could getsome Lululemon, you should whip
down there, right down to themall and get some.
Yep.
Anyway, the point is, is havingit doesn't really matter when
the routine is, right?
It doesn't really matter.
My routine is in the morning.
You could have a routine at sixo'clock in the evening or three
(29:11):
o'clock in the afternoon.
SPEAKER_01 (29:12):
I like the idea of having an exercise root regime
around, you know, in in theevening, in the early evening.
SPEAKER_00 (29:17):
Yeah, but you say that, but you won't do it.
SPEAKER_01 (29:19):
Yeah, I tell you why we don't do it, because we
finish dinner and you go, andyou turn to me with your large
eyes and you go, what do we wantto watch now?
SPEAKER_00 (29:25):
Well, what's the it's not early evening, that's
mid evening.
Early evening is six.
SPEAKER_01 (29:30):
Well, that's when we're having dinner, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
No, we don't eat at six, what are we?
A hundred.
SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (29:35):
We eat at seven.
SPEAKER_01 (29:36):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (29:36):
Go you exercise at six, there you go.
SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
Really?
SPEAKER_00 (29:39):
Would you would you?
Yeah.
Would you not go?
I just need to lie down with aheat lamp on my on my knee?
SPEAKER_01 (29:45):
You that is so mean.
I know what you're thinkingthere when you say that.
That that heat lamp was verysoothing.
You know, is it my fault thatthe only way that you could
actually use the heat lamp wasto lie down?
No.
SPEAKER_00 (29:59):
Oh my god.
God.
SPEAKER_01 (30:00):
Anyway, I think I don't reckon you'd like it if I
left the house at six o'c sixo'clock every evening.
I'd be fine.
Would you really?
SPEAKER_00 (30:07):
And this is true, this is true, and may as God is
my witness, may I never behungry again.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
As God is my witness, if yousaid to me at six o'clock in the
evening, I'm gonna whip downbecause in our apartment ladies,
we have a gym on our floor.
Um and you could whip down atsix o'clock and do have a swim
(30:27):
and do some weights, I'd be fineabout that.
I love discipline.
That sounds like a challenge.
I I why did you use that voice?
SPEAKER_01 (30:34):
I want to know, because that's that's usually
the voice that people say that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:37):
We're getting really hot in this room.
Anyway, um listen, I guess thethe thing is how much of our
behaviour is is is determinedand how much is in our control?
And I think that is the mostinteresting question.
How much of our behaviour isdetermined?
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
I I think the thing that's most interesting about
you going to the gym at you knowsix o'clock every morning is
that you don't have to forceyourself to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (31:03):
Yeah, but this is back to that back to the very
nub of the question, isn't it?
Yeah.
Does that does that infer thatit's easy for me because there's
some predetermined umdisciplined thing in my
character, or have I appliedmyself?
Um And that is very interesting,right?
Okay, so let's break that down.
Okay, go on.
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
You you you'd say that it's relatively easy for
you to do it now.
Just that, just that, yeah.
Okay, so right now it'srelatively easy to do it.
And people who will be expertsin how to build a new habit,
they will tell you that if youdo the same thing again and
again and again and again, youknow, more than twenty-nine
times is it, or thirty times, orsomething like that.
SPEAKER_00 (31:43):
Will is a bad we know that will is a bad task
forcing yourself, or will Willis a bad far out.
Will is a bad taskmaster.
And the other thing is Who'sWill?
Yeah.
Will whoever he is is a lousytaskmaster.
He's a lousy taskmaster.
SPEAKER_01 (31:57):
Why is he a lousy taskmaster?
SPEAKER_00 (31:58):
Well, because you run out of it.
You just run out of will.
But habit is the way to do it.
And do you know that everyevening I um lay out my clothes?
Did you know I do that?
SPEAKER_01 (32:09):
You what you lay out your your your Lululemons for
the nation?
Yeah, I lay it all out.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:13):
So when I get up in the morning, I I'm I don't have
to think.
I get up and I put them on and Iput the lead on the dog because
he comes with me and I I havethe kettle half filled so I can
have tea.
So it is an easy exit.
SPEAKER_01 (32:26):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:26):
But you I'm not searching for things in the
cupboard.
SPEAKER_01 (32:29):
You've planned that the night before?
SPEAKER_00 (32:30):
I do.
SPEAKER_01 (32:30):
Okay.
Yeah, so these are all goodhygiene factors to build a new
habit, you know, make it easyfor you to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (32:35):
Yeah, but but then back to this notion is it was it
determined in my character thatit would be easy for me to do
that?
I don't know.
Okay, it's just maybe it was.
SPEAKER_01 (32:43):
What kind of emotional turmoil is is created
in you by the thought of notgoing to the gym?
Terrible.
You hate it.
I hate it.
You really hate it.
It makes you antsy.
Yeah.
Um and so uh you you youactually do have an immediate
visceral response to missing outon going to the gym.
I do, that's true.
And so again, it's not willpowerthat gets you there.
You want to be there becauseyou've built this lovely habit,
and you're probably more of alark anyway, in terms of your,
(33:07):
you know, your biorhythms.
You know, what happens with yourcortisol and oh actually that
could be right.
SPEAKER_00 (33:12):
So maybe okay, let's look at this.
So maybe in the deterministicpart of it, it's easier for me
because I'm lackier.
I'm okay to get up earlier.
SPEAKER_01 (33:21):
A bit lackier, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:22):
I'm a bit lackier.
And maybe I'm maybe I ha do havea lot of conscientiousness in my
um in my in my personality type,so it's important to me if I say
I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna doit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Maybe so maybe there is a lot ofdeterministic stuff, which means
(33:43):
that it's wrong to judgesomebody else who does not have
that.
Yeah.
Stop looking, that's the worstsmile you've ever given me.
This was awful.
Well what do you mean?
I'm still sitting in this messyroom.
SPEAKER_01 (34:00):
I'm admiring you for uh for for for such a cogent
train of thought.
SPEAKER_00 (34:03):
Oh, I'm great, aren't I?
So I guess it's how long have webeen talking?
SPEAKER_01 (34:07):
Oh, about uh about 36 minutes.
Does this mean that you're goingto be less uh judgy when you
come back in the morning?
SPEAKER_00 (34:15):
I'll tell you what it would make me less judgy.
SPEAKER_01 (34:18):
What would make you less judgy?
SPEAKER_00 (34:19):
If you did what you said and and would do some gym
late in the day.
SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
Ah, because you're actually not being judgy.
You are concerned about mywell-being.
SPEAKER_00 (34:29):
I actually am.
Okay.
I worry that you yourcardiovascular health will
suffer if you don't um exercise.
So that's it's more that I Iworry about it.
SPEAKER_02 (34:43):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (34:43):
And as you know, I have I I am an anxious person,
so I worry about you, and andit's the same anxiety in a way
that arises in me if I don'texercise.
SPEAKER_01 (34:54):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (34:56):
That makes sense.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:58):
However, you are messier than me.
SPEAKER_01 (35:00):
That was a very compelling post-rationalisation
that you just gave us.
SPEAKER_00 (35:03):
Oh my god.
Anyway, um, so here we are,ladies, discussing the things
that I think affect allrelationships.
Um we we do know that um Davidis actually very good at not
being gendered uh in mostthings.
Uh I know a lot of women are inrelationships where the men are.
(35:27):
There is a lot of genderstereotyping and that can make
it really difficult.
And also things like um oneperson is more ordered than
another can cause ructions in arelationship unless you can find
a way to talk about it.
So I think it's important tosort of out these things, have a
(35:48):
chat about it.
If you do have a differentrhythm, maybe look at why that
is a problem, or is it really aproblem, or can you find another
way around the problem so thatwhat we're not living in is a a
heightened, um, overly stressedenvironment, which is, as we
know, it does not cause 99% ofillnesses, but we don't want
ongoing stress in our livesbecause it's not good for us.
(36:10):
Um did you want to saysomething, David?
SPEAKER_01 (36:12):
Oh, and I as you as you were just d describing that,
I was thinking that uh probablymost of the um most of those
those those points of conflict,those po points of drama in a
relationship, they do tend to bethe same thing that was causing
trouble yesterday and the daybefore and the day before and
the day before.
SPEAKER_00 (36:28):
What is that?
Well, I'm just I'm just sayingOh 100% the recurrent.
SPEAKER_01 (36:33):
When you've got people who are operating in
different rhythms, you know, oneperson's a morning person, one
person's an evening person, oneperson, you know, is messy.
Is into is into a particularhabit of only being able to
achieve anything in a state ofpristine order.
SPEAKER_00 (36:46):
No, not pristine order.
It's not true.
Just a normal amount of things.
SPEAKER_01 (36:50):
Oh, you're just an example, Annie, it was just a
possibility.
I wasn't I wasn't talking aboutyou there.
SPEAKER_00 (36:54):
Just a normal amount of touchy on that, aren't you?
Of not having massive disarray.
So, anyway, on that, smartwomen, thank you so much for
tuning in.
Um hope you're all having areasonably good day, even a very
good day, wherever you are inthe world.
SPEAKER_01 (37:12):
Um That was very cautious, wasn't it?
You couldn't just say have agreat day.
SPEAKER_00 (37:16):
Okay, well, you know, because what if someone's
having an awful time and thensomeone says have a good day?
SPEAKER_01 (37:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:22):
And you're like, Well, I'm not having a good day,
and then it reminds you thatyou're not having a good day.
So if you're not having anawesome day, that's also fine.
And I hope it improves becauseeveryone's dealing with
something right.
So, um, yeah, that's the truthof it.
So, um, wherever you are in theworld, stay safe, stay well,
(37:42):
keep your critical thinking hatson, and talk to you soon.
See you later.
Bye.
Thanks for tuning in to WiseSmart Women with me, Annie
McCubbin.
I hope today's episode hasignited your curiosity and left
you feeling inspired by myanti-motivational style.
Join me next time as we continueto unravel the fascinating
(38:03):
layers of our brains and developways to sort out the facts from
the fiction and the over 6,000thoughts we have in the course
of every day.
Remember, intelligence isn'tenough.
You can be as smart as paint,but it's not just about what you
know, it's about how you think.
And in all this talk of whetheror not you can trust your gut.
(38:25):
If you ever feel unsafe, whetherit's in the street, at work, at
a car park, in a bar, or in yourown home, please, please respect
that gut feeling.
Staying safe needs to be ourprimary objective.
We can build better lives, butwe have to stay safe to do that.
And don't forget to subscribe,rate, and review the podcast and
(38:47):
share it with your fellow smartwomen and allies.
Together we're hopefullyreshaping the narrative around
women and making betterdecisions.
So until next time, stay sharp,stay savvy, and keep your
critical thinking at shiny.
This is Annie McCubbin signingoff from White Smart Women.
See you later.
This episode was produced byHarrison Hess.
(39:10):
It was executive produced andwritten by me, Annie McCubbin.
You are listening to the why smart women podcasts.
The podcast is helped smartwomen work out why we typically
make the wrong decisions and howto make better work.
Wrong relationships, careerchoices, finances, objectives,
and failed movies.
Every moment of every day, we'remaking decisions.
Let's make those workers.
(00:21):
I'm your host and you're acolour, and as a woman of a
certain age, I've made my owncareers really bad decisions.
I don't know.
And I wish this podcast has beenaround to save me from myself.
This podcast will give insightsinto the working of your own
brain, which will blow yourmind.
(00:44):
I acknowledge the traditionalowners of the land on which I'm
recording and you are listeningon this day.
Always was, always will be,Aboriginal land.
Well, hello, smart women, andwelcome back to the Wise Smart
Women Podcast.
Today I am broadcasting from DYSydney, New South Wales,
Australia.
(01:05):
Um, and I am here in our littlestudio looking out in a
beautiful spring day.
It's nearly the end of the firstmonth of spring and things are
really heating up here inSydney.
It's going to be delicious.
Um and today I'm talking toDavid.
Hello, David.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
Hello, everybody.
Hello, Annie.
How are you going?
SPEAKER_00 (01:23):
Um I'm good, thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:24):
Yes.
Do you feel do you feel sort ofprepared with a with a with a
bee in your bonnet for this umthis particular episode?
SPEAKER_00 (01:33):
I have no bee.
SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
What?
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
There is no bee in my bonnet.
SPEAKER_01 (01:36):
I reckon I reckon I reckon you're better when you
when when you you've got the beein the bonnet and you know what
it is.
SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
It's like what are you complaining about today?
SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
Alright, well, I thought we could talk about what
I thought was we could talkabout when the rhythm that
people operate in when they'rein a relationship is different.
SPEAKER_01 (02:02):
When what like like when two people have two
different rhythms.
Yes.
Oh, I can see where this isheaded.
Yeah, okay.
Where do you think it's headed?
Going into the Well well, youknow, where we where we where we
tell a story about one personwho has a terrific rhythm, you
know?
They're they're they're anhonorary member of the 5 a.m.
club.
They rise early, they brushtheir teeth, they get into their
(02:23):
Lululemon and off they go andthey do a hit.
SPEAKER_00 (02:25):
I don't wear Lululemon.
SPEAKER_01 (02:27):
What?
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
I do not wear Lululemon.
SPEAKER_01 (02:29):
Oh right, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (02:30):
Um What are the other ridiculous um I'm not
going to advertise a brand on mypodcast, but I don't wear
Lululemon.
SPEAKER_01 (02:38):
Okay, but how what made you think that I was
speaking a little bit?
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
Can I tell you why I don't wear Lululemon?
SPEAKER_01 (02:43):
Why did you wear Lululemon?
SPEAKER_00 (02:44):
Thanks for asking.
Because there was this all thissignage um outside their one of
their branches, their shops, andone of the things said 99% of
all illnesses is caused bystress.
And that is not true.
Oh, ooh, they uh stresscontributes to some things, but
(03:05):
it is not responsible foreverything.
It's a ridiculous thing to say.
And then they're implying thatum of course you could
ameliorate this stress and neverever have anything wrong with
you by exercising.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
Yeah, okay.
And that's a that's that's athat's a distortion of a truth,
isn't it?
I mean, you know, um exercisingis very good for you.
If there was a pill that youwould take that would cure all
ills and it had um all thebenefits of exercise, then you'd
take that.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
Yeah, it is an amazing thing.
It's but it's the overblowing ofit.
It's it's the simplicity.
The overpromise.
It's the overpromise, it's asimplification.
Um, you know, babies getterrible illnesses, people get
terrible illnesses, got nothingto do with stress.
So uh yes, but back to exercise.
SPEAKER_01 (03:47):
So this is a values-based decision.
Not to wear Lululemon becausethey distort the stress.
Yeah, it annoyed me.
Okay, yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (03:53):
It really irritated me.
SPEAKER_01 (03:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:55):
It's pretty easy to irritate me with advertising.
What are you looking at?
SPEAKER_01 (03:58):
Yeah, yeah.
I was just saying if there was alabel on it, if I could identify
what you were actually wearing.
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Um, I'm not telling you what I'm wearing.
I'm not advertising it.
SPEAKER_01 (04:07):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (04:07):
To my millions of followers.
Yes.
Anyway.
SPEAKER_01 (04:11):
There'd be a run on the share market or something
like that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:14):
Everybody buy everybody buying LKSD or
whatever it is.
I do wear LKS D.
L S K D.
SPEAKER_01 (04:19):
Did I get that right?
L S K D?
What are those letters standfor?
I don't know.
L S K D.
Anyway.
Lucy in the sky with a kangarooshaped diamond.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (04:29):
Sorry, so the thing is, of course, exercise has um
extraordinary impacts on allsorts of illnesses.
It it it it um it helps withyour cardiovascular system.
It certainly can assist indelaying or actually not
developing some cancers.
It helps with your mentalhealth.
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
Yeah, dementia as well, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00 (04:51):
Uh yeah, there's a lot of evidence about it.
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
Um I think you you you you you you gave me a uh the
you know the tip of the icebergof a study the other day about
how what is it, high intensityexercise really reduces the
likelihood that you'll get.
SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
It reduces it by by by a percentage.
A percentage.
So 90%.
It's not 90%.
Okay, sorry.
So I, as you know, um my motherdeveloped dementia late, but
still I would rather not succumbto Alzheimer's.
So um, yeah, and I exercise fora lot of reasons.
(05:26):
But talking about exercise.
SPEAKER_01 (05:27):
That's right.
So that's that's where we kindof started with this.
We talked about the twodifferent rhythms, and one
person gets up in the morningand they get into their no-brand
um exercise wear and they go offand they do a workout, and then
they have lovely social timewith their friends, and we know
that that's good for you.
SPEAKER_00 (05:43):
That's really distracting me, you're email.
SPEAKER_01 (05:45):
Oh, okay.
I'll turn it off.
SPEAKER_00 (05:47):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (05:48):
Yeah, we were we we we were comparing the different
rhythms and routines of people,and yes, you could have a person
who gets up in the morning,exercises, socializes, does all
of that, then comes home andthen gets gets gets to work.
Yeah, that's me.
That's that's a bit like you.
Ah, and then um, you know, youdo your work throughout the day,
(06:09):
and then we'll have dinner, andthen you know, something will
happen after dinner.
It it might be an episode of thegifted No, it might be an
episode of the Gilded Age.
SPEAKER_00 (06:18):
Why are you talking about the whole day?
We're not talking about thewhole day.
SPEAKER_01 (06:21):
No, we are talking about the whole day because I
know what you're gonna say.
You're gonna say, okay, theother person who doesn't bounce
out of bed at Sparrow's Fart,um, you know, gets started a bit
more slowly during the day, hitsgolden hour, you know, roughly
between, you know, four and fivein the afternoon, um, and has
got plenty of energy and ideasto then work late into the
(06:42):
night.
Which is what I tend to do.
SPEAKER_02 (06:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
When you go to sleep.
So, um you return from the gymand you see me sort of, you
know, starting my day.
SPEAKER_00 (06:55):
Yeah, but then you say things, you say things to me
like, oh, I wish I could get upand exercise and I wish I could.
Well, uh that's the bit that I'mtalking about because it sort of
implies that it's easy for meand difficult for you, and that
(07:17):
and I don't know if that's true.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
Well, hang hang hang on a second.
If I say, gee, I wish I, youknow I wish I was in your
rhythm, you know?
Your rhythm is really terrific,you know.
I wish I I wish I could, youknow, get up in the morning,
have my exercise, you know, domy thing.
Oh, why don't you why don't I?
Okay.
Because well why do you why doyou think I don't?
SPEAKER_00 (07:37):
I'm interested.
No, but no, no.
SPEAKER_01 (07:39):
Oh, you've you've definitely got a you've got a
you've got an idea.
You've got an answer thatquestion.
That's right.
So that's why I am master.
No, I don't want to do that.
What is going on in your brain?
SPEAKER_00 (07:49):
I th I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
I don't think I don't think it's very
flattering.
I think you come into the roomand go, oh, you know, you lazy
loser.
SPEAKER_00 (07:56):
I do not walk into the room and go, you lazy loser.
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
You're lazy loser, yeah.
I mean, you know, that we we wewe know so many stories of uh,
you know, men of a certain age.
Um, you know, they start to slowdown a little bit, they become
completely useful and just siton the couch all day.
SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
Useless, not useful.
SPEAKER_01 (08:12):
Oh, sorry, useless, yeah.
They become useless, they sit onthe couch all day.
SPEAKER_00 (08:15):
I don't know these men.
SPEAKER_01 (08:16):
Oh, come on.
We've we we've we've we've hadanecdotal, you know, sharing.
SPEAKER_00 (08:23):
We've told stories about people who are No, those
men were use useless in to startoff with.
SPEAKER_01 (08:29):
Really?
SPEAKER_00 (08:29):
I think so.
SPEAKER_01 (08:30):
What do you think you think some some are some are
born useless, some haveuselessness thrust upon them.
And um and what's the other one?
SPEAKER_00 (08:39):
Look, we know there's there's been this big
study out in America um thatsaid that for most women that
single women um that areattempting to get back into the
dating game, however m whatevermethod, that mostly the men are
a negative influence on theirlife.
SPEAKER_01 (08:58):
Oh.
What so don't bother?
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
Don't bother.
Well, that's what they're sortof saying that there's a lot of
Well, that's what the um umburned haystack.
Anybody who's online dating umshould definitely look at the
burned haystack method and go toum and and join them.
SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
Is it joined uh uh burnt haystack.com?
SPEAKER_00 (09:21):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (09:21):
What's the URL?
How do how do people find it?
I guess people could look it up.
SPEAKER_00 (09:24):
No, that's okay.
We'll put it in the show notes.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (09:26):
Um burnt haystack, and what's the name of the lady?
SPEAKER_00 (09:28):
Burned haystack method.
Yep.
And um the name is Jenny, hername is Jenny Young, and she
studies the applied rhetoric ofthe language that men use
online, and by the study of thelanguage, she ascertains whether
or not they should block andburn or whether they should
(09:50):
entertain the the um thepossibility that the person's
okay.
SPEAKER_01 (09:53):
Block and burn.
SPEAKER_00 (09:54):
Yeah, just get rid of them, don't go near them.
And that what apparently,according to her, and I I do
think it's right, you can workout if somebody is n is like not
going to work, but you can'twork out if somebody is.
So it just takes out the peoplethat are definitely a no-no, and
you're still left trying to workout if the ones that you've sort
of let through and uh entertainthe possibility of whether or
(10:16):
not they're good is anotherthing entirely.
SPEAKER_01 (10:17):
And what does Jenny Young use to evaluate whether
these men are going to be a netgain or a net?
SPEAKER_00 (10:22):
Applied rhetoric.
She analyses the language.
Applied rhetoric.
So she it's honestly, I won't gointo it too much, but do do look
it up, especially if you'redoing online dating.
She analyses the language andthere's things that are embedded
in the language that give thegive the game away, you know, if
they're over controlling or ifthey consider themselves to be a
prize or whatever.
(10:43):
Yeah.
It's very, very interesting.
But uh I I digress.
SPEAKER_01 (10:46):
Is that is that is that the gentleman who says, you
know, look, I should let youknow that when I get into a
relationship with somebody, youknow, probably my greatest
weakness is I care too much.
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Yeah, that crap.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (10:55):
All right, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:56):
Okay.
Anyway.
SPEAKER_00 (10:57):
Note yourself, don't use that everywhere.
Don't use that language.
Or are you on the dating?
Are you in the dating scene?
I care too much.
You care too much.
SPEAKER_01 (11:04):
Like I need that complication in my life.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
That's right.
So anyway, back to this notionof different rhythms.
Or different rhythms anddifferent I mean.
Yeah.
So I mean look I mean you'realso really messy.
I mean the the We are well, weare look at where we're sitting.
No, do you know what I think memessy.
SPEAKER_01 (11:23):
Do you know what?
What you that's that's yourthing.
I th I think we're both equallymessy, you and I.
Gee, I wish this was on video.
You should have seen Annie'sface change then.
I think that we are we have sortof equal equal sort of um uh
sensibilities around thecreation of mess.
Uh it just happens that I happento be very good at actually
still being able to operateinside mess to do the things
(11:45):
that need to be done.
Whereas if something's notright, um, it tends to distract
you and you grind to a halt.
Like uh a few minutes ago youmade me turn off the um uh one
of the computer screens becauseit was distracting you.
Yeah?
I wish you could see Annie'sface at the moment.
She she's looking at me.
Let me let me let me describeit.
(12:06):
Her lips are slightly pursed,she's smiling.
I don't want to smile.
Her nose is all wrinkled.
I'm in trouble.
No, but I mean I look, I I I I Iget I get your daily rhythms.
You find it easy to wake upearly and go to go to sleep
early.
And yeah, look, I don't findthat easy.
Um I I I want to keep going atthe end of the day, so I wake up
(12:27):
a little later, I get up alittle later, I get started a
little later, but you know, Ipick up speed.
And if I'm doing it in a roomthat's not, you know, perfectly
tidy.
SPEAKER_00 (12:35):
It's not that it's not perfectly tidy, I focus on
what needs to be done, and it'snot a it's not a car crash.
SPEAKER_01 (12:42):
It's a little bit of a car crash, I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (12:45):
Can we go back to the bit where we're equally
messy?
SPEAKER_01 (12:48):
Yeah, okay, yeah.
Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_00 (12:49):
Thanks.
That'd be great.
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
I'm I'm I'm glad because because because very
rarely do we ever get to go tothat place where we acknowledge
the fact that we're equallymessy.
SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
What do I do?
So I okay, I go to the gym.
I mean, I'm sure there's otherpeople out there that are
listening to this that canrelate to this.
So I go to the gym, yeah, comehome, and you know what I spend
the next two.
SPEAKER_01 (13:06):
Tremendously admirable.
What?
SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
What do I when I come home and I do?
SPEAKER_01 (13:10):
Are you are you saying you you come and tidy up
for two hours?
SPEAKER_00 (13:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:14):
For two hours?
SPEAKER_00 (13:16):
Put the washing on, I make the bed, I clean the
bathroom, I unstack thedishwasher, I restack it, I put
all the clothes that you've leftin the lounge room, I come and
put them away.
SPEAKER_01 (13:25):
And and at the moment, are you amassing a uh,
you know, a a a column of of allof the work that you do
comparing it to mine.
Well in terms of Which isnegligible.
SPEAKER_00 (13:34):
No, no, just in terms of tidying up.
SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:36):
I uh look, we're in a very we're in a smaller space
now, right?
SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
Yes, yes, we are.
SPEAKER_00 (13:42):
And so it we should see Yo Yo's face.
SPEAKER_01 (13:45):
Yep, she's on my side.
So she witnesses this.
SPEAKER_00 (13:49):
If you leave something, anything out.
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
Yes, if you leave it out.
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
So when you were on that call this morning, that
coaching call.
Yeah, yeah.
Did you notice when you werewhen you left the very messy
place that we're sitting in now,which is the studio.
Yeah, yeah.
But I left the studio.
That the kitchen I'd restackedthe dishwasher, that I'd
restacked the stuff to go onthere, that I'd cleaned up the
that I'd cleaned up the loungeroom, that I'd made the bed,
that I'd put everything away.
SPEAKER_01 (14:11):
The room was reassuringly ordered when I when
I walked back into it.
That was great.
Thank you for doing that.
SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
See, this is this is why women just want to live with
other women.
I swear to God.
SPEAKER_01 (14:23):
Okay, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (14:24):
So it's like me saying it's like me saying that
I am equally um that that mycapacity to um to get my head
around tech is about the same asas yours, but I just don't do as
much of it.
Um that is not true.
You are clearly uh eons ahead ofme when it comes to tech and
(14:48):
understanding anythingtechnical.
SPEAKER_01 (14:49):
Yeah, well that's I mean that's but that's because
I've had more flying hours.
You know, I just I'd say same ascleaning.
I've spent more That's right.
Now, those of you who have umyou know perhaps read Annie's
books um or have listened toearlier episodes um of this
podcast, you'll come across thisthing called the availability
bias.
SPEAKER_00 (15:05):
Um and I'm actually going to smack you on the head
with that with that thing thatyou left on the ground that you
should have put away.
SPEAKER_01 (15:13):
And it's twin sister, the confirmation bias.
And um, you know, s some mightargue, in fact, I think if if if
we look closely at the at thefurrows on Yo-Yo's brow at the
moment, um she would she wouldbe thinking to herself, yeah,
when I'm here and Annie's nothere, um David does an enormous
amount of of stacking thedishwasher and unstacking the
(15:33):
dishwasher and cleaning clothesand putting them out.
Um and um generally speaking,when he does that stuff, it's
invisible to Annie because allshe notices is when things are
left out.
I don't know.
I'm just telling you what Yoyo'sthinking at the moment.
I'm not saying that this is thetruth.
SPEAKER_00 (15:51):
Oh my actual God.
SPEAKER_01 (15:54):
But that's how it works.
Isn't the purpose of the podcastbeing able to understand what
what these cognitive errors are?
It's like if I empty thedishwasher, you don't notice.
SPEAKER_00 (16:06):
Isn't that true?
So every woman that's listeningto this will know that that you
are using my own frameworks thatI discovered against me.
SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
And and now you're you're gendering the
conversation by saying everywoman would know what?
SPEAKER_00 (16:22):
This it's a very gendered conversation.
There is a gender difference.
SPEAKER_01 (16:26):
Availability bias and confirmation bias are
available to all of us.
SPEAKER_00 (16:31):
Okay.
So let let's let's leave themessiness aside.
Let's leave that aside.
Okay, okay.
And let's go back because thatis clearly To the exercise
thing.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:43):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (16:43):
I know I'm annoying.
I know for 100% I am like areally um annoying um Girl Scout
mistress.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:56):
I know that.
SPEAKER_01 (16:57):
Okay.
Do you do you know how annoyingyou are?
SPEAKER_00 (16:59):
No, probably not.
SPEAKER_01 (17:00):
No, do you know how rigid you are in your own?
Probably not.
Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (17:03):
Yeah.
Well that's that's that's that'sa good starting point, anyway.
Thanks, David.
Fuck me.
The thing is, I guess it comesdown to in terms of your health
and wellness.
I can't believe I use the wordwellness.
Um that in order to sort of getthrough the last, I don't know,
(17:25):
three decades, we need to beeating properly and exercising
and etc, etc.
And um I I think you're erraticat it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:37):
Erratic.
SPEAKER_00 (17:38):
Erratic.
SPEAKER_01 (17:38):
Erratic.
What, so I don't get into arhythm?
SPEAKER_00 (17:41):
Uh no, I don't think you do, do you?
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Um Lo I look, I wouldn't say that I'm in a
rhythm at the moment.
I wouldn't say that I'm in theperfect rhythm at the moment.
SPEAKER_00 (17:50):
With other things going on at the moment, there
are other things that are sortof understandable.
SPEAKER_01 (17:52):
But you know, look, there have been times in my life
when I've woken up with thedawn, gone for a run.
SPEAKER_00 (17:57):
But it's rare.
SPEAKER_01 (17:57):
Swam across No, no, I'm saying Are you gonna talk
about Manley Dam?
SPEAKER_00 (18:01):
Because do you know how long ago that was?
Lily was four.
And you were rising and swimmingacross Manley Dam.
Lily was four, she's 28 now.
SPEAKER_01 (18:12):
There was a period in my life.
SPEAKER_00 (18:15):
Okay, well, you know, it's it's yeah.
Um and you still talk about itlike it was sort of Oh, I don't.
SPEAKER_01 (18:21):
That's this is the first time I've mentioned it in
19 years.
But um I look, you know, if I ifI was to say, you know, what
what what's a period in my lifewhen I was actually doing what I
think you want me to do?
Okay, that would be it.
Look, there were times when Iwent to, I don't know, the gyms
early in the morning.
And I'm not doing it at themoment.
(18:42):
Yeah, I know that.
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
Yeah, but it's not I mean, is it I guess it it this
whole thing comes down to um notwho's right or wrong, but what
what is behind drive anddiscipline and personality.
SPEAKER_01 (18:59):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (19:00):
And that's a much more interesting conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (19:02):
Okay, so if if if we're talking about a um uh a
general trend around what didyou say?
SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
Well I'm thinking the thing that so behavior is to
do with the way you're what dothey say?
You know, we we end up with asort of a personality type, the
way you're raised, the thegenetics that you bring with you
and the culture you exist in,right?
Yeah.
So and they're now saying thatactually personality is not
fixed.
So something like umconscientiousness, which is one
(19:31):
of the big five in inpersonality, you actually can um
improve on conscientiousness.
That extroversion, which umunfortunately, and I'm not
saying there is anything wrongwith introversion because
introverts are the people thatactually notice what's going on
because extrovert extroverts aretoo busy blathering on.
But it's true.
That's one definition.
SPEAKER_01 (19:51):
Yeah, but the DSM, extroversion, people who like
blathering on.
That's where you get your energyfrom.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So uh but they they're nowsaying that things like that
they would have thought werefixed, so the big five
personality, which is openness,conscientiousness, extroversion,
agreeability, and neuroticism,that actually you can, some of
them can be, you can play aroundwith them and increase areas
(20:21):
that you might want to increase.
Like for instance, if you'revery introverted, you can put
yourself, expose yourself tosituations where you are more
extroverted becauseunfortunately there is data that
suggests that you ex i if you'reextroverted, there are some life
outcomes which are better nothaving a go at introverts.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:40):
Um what about neuroticism?
Are you saying that if someone'shigher in neuroticism?
You could reduce it, you canwork on its own.
SPEAKER_00 (20:46):
You can reduce neuroticism and also for your
bucket list.
Yeah.
And one of the big ones isconscientiousness.
Um that you can actuallyincrease your conscientiousness.
SPEAKER_01 (21:00):
How do you how do you define conscientiousness?
SPEAKER_00 (21:02):
So the quality of wishing to do one's work or duty
well and thoroughly.
Um and I'll put it in a sentencehis conscientiousness is second
to none, and he regularly makesfollow-up calls to ensure
everything is going well.
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
There you go.
He wants to he he he wants to doa good job.
And also so um He wants to get agood night's sleep so that when
he's working on somethingimportant, he's got all of his
um faculties available to him.
SPEAKER_00 (21:27):
I guess.
Oh, what is the so th as I justsaid, the big five personality
traits, one of them isconsciousness, and it says that
the conscientiousness traitshows how thoughtful,
goal-oriented, and controlledsomeone is.
Those who are more conscientioustend to be more self-disciplined
and persistent.
Those who rank lower inconscientiousness tend to prefer
(21:48):
spontaneity and procrastination.
So that's the that's the thingabout and then what they're
saying.
I just listened to a reallyinteresting thing on it, that
conscientiousness can beimproved if you find yourself
sort of erratic and morespontaneous by finding something
that really matters to you andthinking, I really want to
achieve that.
SPEAKER_01 (22:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So I'm curious.
Yeah.
Um on a scale ofconscientiousness, say from one
to five, you know, five being,you know, really, really keen
thinking about doing a good job.
SPEAKER_00 (22:17):
Yeah, you would be up there on five.
Okay, what where where are you?
I'm on five.
I think we're both I think we'reboth on highly conscientious.
Really?
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
So conscientiousness isn't something that's going to
influence whether you get up inthe morning and go to the gym or
not.
If you think that I'mconscientious and I sleep late,
you know, I'm I'm basically anight owl.
Yeah, that's right.
That's one of the other classes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:35):
When you apply yourself to a job, when I apply
myself to a job You'reincredibly conscious.
SPEAKER_01 (22:39):
Yeah, like if we've got a if we have to be on site
at seven o'clock in the morning,then I'll be up at five and
checking the equipment andmaking sure that it's all of
that.
SPEAKER_00 (22:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
Um, but yes, you know, given my druthers, I'd
probably rather, you know, sleeplater.
And then when I get to, youknow, ten thirty at night,
eleven, you know, and I getinterested in something, then I
tend to follow that thatinterest.
Now is that a lack ofconscientiousness or am I No, I
wasn't saying you Or am I beinga night owl?
SPEAKER_00 (23:04):
No, I wasn't saying you didn't have
conscientiousness.
I think you're very um I thinkyou're spontaneous.
I think you follow I mean Ithink that's part of the ADHD
profile, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (23:15):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
You want to find something that's interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
That's right.
When we run out of dopamine wego looking for something that'll
trigger it.
SPEAKER_00 (23:21):
Yeah, that's right.
So no, I don't I don't see youas having a lack of
conscientiousness um at all.
Not at all.
Do you think I've got a lack ofconscientiousness?
SPEAKER_01 (23:32):
Oh look Oh, you shouldn't have paused.
Yeah, well no, I mean look ffirst answer was was was no.
Um but but then then I worrythat maybe I'm I'm approval
seeking and I should havethought about it for a second.
So conscientiousness.
No, look when you're given in asituation, when you are in a
situation where you have theopportunity to do the right
thing, um, then absolutely youdo it, and without a lot of
(23:53):
drama.
Um although that said, you know,you will like when I come back
in, you you you will let me knoweverything that you've done,
yeah, so that I notice, youknow, so so that I know that
it's got nothing to do withconscientiousness.
SPEAKER_00 (24:08):
I've just I just think that women's work is
undervalued.
SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
Yep, yep.
Do you know that do you knowthat I I actually make a point
of not telling you what I'vejust done?
SPEAKER_00 (24:16):
I know we've had this conversation before.
Well maybe you should because II I still think in terms of our
application to inside the housethat you're less focused on it.
I just think that's the truth.
So start telling me.
SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
But yeah, but then it's a little bit like, you
know, I have to I have to reportback to Annie that I'm being a
um, you know, uh a worthycontributor to the household.
SPEAKER_00 (24:40):
And um Well, maybe you should.
Why don't you tell me?
Why would why would wh what Ihave to report to you?
No, it's not about reporting.
SPEAKER_01 (24:48):
You know, you're you're starting to you know be a
bit blur.
What will I get a badge?
I've already said that.
Will I get the dishwasher scalp?
Exactly.
You know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
It's no surprises there.
SPEAKER_01 (24:56):
So so so so maybe we can have a you know an a a note
on the fridge, and every time Ido something I can get a star.
And when I get five stars, yeah,then I get to um be rewarded in
some way.
Yeah, that's true.
You know, I get to have an extraCornetto or something.
SPEAKER_00 (25:08):
Oh Cornetto would be nice.
SPEAKER_01 (25:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
Um so so anyway, back to this.
SPEAKER_01 (25:13):
No, but is it right that that that that a
relationship like ours that Ishould be, you know.
I mean, yes, you can have yourpoint system with your children,
um, to to keep, yes, the thingsthat they need to do around the
house top of mine, but surelynot not your intimate partner,
not your husband or your wife.
It's like if I was, you know,could you imagine what it was
like if I if I was scoring youon your driving?
SPEAKER_00 (25:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:37):
You wouldn't like that.
SPEAKER_00 (25:38):
Not a different different context.
SPEAKER_01 (25:40):
Okay.
If I was scoring you on, youknow, the appropriateness of
your your your your attire whenyou leave the house.
SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
Well, that's a different context.
It doesn't even count.
You're feeling bringing upcontexts which are irrelevant.
SPEAKER_01 (25:50):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (25:51):
Um We're talking about application.
SPEAKER_01 (25:53):
Application, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:54):
We're talking here about application and dispersal
of domestic tasks.
SPEAKER_01 (26:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
And general a general sense of needing order
or not needing order.
I need order.
You do not need order.
SPEAKER_01 (26:08):
I like order.
SPEAKER_00 (26:08):
Oh, yes.
Yeah, yeah.
You don't need order.
You can sit in this room whichhas got 17 layers of clothes
around the camera equipment andyou're fine.
SPEAKER_01 (26:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:19):
That's true, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (26:20):
Well, 17 layers.
SPEAKER_00 (26:23):
Don't don't don't count the layers.
SPEAKER_01 (26:25):
Okay, alright.
SPEAKER_00 (26:26):
Anyway, so back to this notion of okay, okay, okay,
okay, if I had all the time inthe world.
No, that's not right.
That is not right.
SPEAKER_01 (26:32):
That's that's what do you think?
SPEAKER_00 (26:34):
No, that's not right.
It is not about time.
It's it's about the definitelyyou could go, I'll do this
before I do this.
But what uh but but but I'll dothis before I go for a swim.
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
If you say that that doesn't exist, then how do you
account for the you know the thethe authentic thought pattern
that I have in moments where Igo, gee, I'm glad I've got
enough time to do this properly.
You know, I'll do this tidy upin a way whereby everything is
better organized than it everwas before.
SPEAKER_00 (27:01):
Why can't you just do it on a basic level?
Why does it have to beextraordinary?
SPEAKER_01 (27:04):
Well, you see, the thing is that I do do it on a
basic level and I just don'ttell you about it.
Yeah, good, that's great.
Um I do do it on a basic level.
Who's the one that getsdistracted?
And he just picked a battery upoff the table and announced it.
I've found that.
Um Yeah.
If I if I if I just get on withit and do it, then you don't
notice.
SPEAKER_00 (27:24):
Anyway, we're not going to get anywhere with this.
SPEAKER_01 (27:26):
Let's go back to the notion of Unless I try and get
my five stars so I can get mybrown owl badge.
SPEAKER_00 (27:31):
Brown owl.
Yeah.
That's right.
But I'd forgotten about brownowl.
I don't know if everybody inother countries has the um the
cub and girl guide system, butwe did.
Man.
SPEAKER_01 (27:41):
Did you have a brown owl?
SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
Yeah, yeah, and I got a lot of badges because I'm
a goody two shoes.
SPEAKER_01 (27:46):
Because you're high on conscientiousness.
Yeah, but anyway, listen.
And letting people know thatyou've done a good job.
SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
Anyway, David.
SPEAKER_01 (27:55):
Annie.
SPEAKER_00 (27:56):
Back to this notion of see for for me the idea of
exercising and eating properlyis to do with health and then
living a longer life.
SPEAKER_01 (28:06):
Staving off dementia.
SPEAKER_00 (28:09):
Yeah.
Good quality, longer life.
And then I worry that you areerratic with your eating and
your exercise and that you won'tlive as long.
SPEAKER_01 (28:19):
Yeah.
Well, so do you know what do youknow what they do what they um
they think is um is uh is muchmore dangerous?
SPEAKER_00 (28:29):
Nagging people.
SPEAKER_01 (28:30):
Yeah, yeah.
Um stress.
I read somewhere the other daythat 90% of all ailments are
caused by stress.
SPEAKER_00 (28:36):
No, 99.
SPEAKER_01 (28:38):
Oh, 99%, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:39):
99% are caused by no annoying people that you live
with.
SPEAKER_01 (28:42):
I mean, if only I had something to wear when I
went to the gym, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (28:46):
If I had if I had if I had some nice, nice, nice
active wear to Oh, you could getsome Lululemon, you should whip
down there, right down to themall and get some.
Yep.
Anyway, the point is, is havingit doesn't really matter when
the routine is, right?
It doesn't really matter.
My routine is in the morning.
You could have a routine at sixo'clock in the evening or three
(29:11):
o'clock in the afternoon.
SPEAKER_01 (29:12):
I like the idea of having an exercise root regime
around, you know, in in theevening, in the early evening.
SPEAKER_00 (29:17):
Yeah, but you say that, but you won't do it.
SPEAKER_01 (29:19):
Yeah, I tell you why we don't do it, because we
finish dinner and you go, andyou turn to me with your large
eyes and you go, what do we wantto watch now?
SPEAKER_00 (29:25):
Well, what's the it's not early evening, that's
mid evening.
Early evening is six.
SPEAKER_01 (29:30):
Well, that's when we're having dinner, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
No, we don't eat at six, what are we?
A hundred.
SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (29:35):
We eat at seven.
SPEAKER_01 (29:36):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (29:36):
Go you exercise at six, there you go.
SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
Really?
SPEAKER_00 (29:39):
Would you would you?
Yeah.
Would you not go?
I just need to lie down with aheat lamp on my on my knee?
SPEAKER_01 (29:45):
You that is so mean.
I know what you're thinkingthere when you say that.
That that heat lamp was verysoothing.
You know, is it my fault thatthe only way that you could
actually use the heat lamp wasto lie down?
No.
SPEAKER_00 (29:59):
Oh my god.
God.
SPEAKER_01 (30:00):
Anyway, I think I don't reckon you'd like it if I
left the house at six o'c sixo'clock every evening.
I'd be fine.
Would you really?
SPEAKER_00 (30:07):
And this is true, this is true, and may as God is
my witness, may I never behungry again.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
As God is my witness, if yousaid to me at six o'clock in the
evening, I'm gonna whip downbecause in our apartment ladies,
we have a gym on our floor.
Um and you could whip down atsix o'clock and do have a swim
(30:27):
and do some weights, I'd be fineabout that.
I love discipline.
That sounds like a challenge.
I I why did you use that voice?
SPEAKER_01 (30:34):
I want to know, because that's that's usually
the voice that people say that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:37):
We're getting really hot in this room.
Anyway, um listen, I guess thethe thing is how much of our
behaviour is is is determinedand how much is in our control?
And I think that is the mostinteresting question.
How much of our behaviour isdetermined?
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
I I think the thing that's most interesting about
you going to the gym at you knowsix o'clock every morning is
that you don't have to forceyourself to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (31:03):
Yeah, but this is back to that back to the very
nub of the question, isn't it?
Yeah.
Does that does that infer thatit's easy for me because there's
some predetermined umdisciplined thing in my
character, or have I appliedmyself?
Um And that is very interesting,right?
Okay, so let's break that down.
Okay, go on.
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
You you you'd say that it's relatively easy for
you to do it now.
Just that, just that, yeah.
Okay, so right now it'srelatively easy to do it.
And people who will be expertsin how to build a new habit,
they will tell you that if youdo the same thing again and
again and again and again, youknow, more than twenty-nine
times is it, or thirty times, orsomething like that.
SPEAKER_00 (31:43):
Will is a bad we know that will is a bad task
forcing yourself, or will Willis a bad far out.
Will is a bad taskmaster.
And the other thing is Who'sWill?
Yeah.
Will whoever he is is a lousytaskmaster.
He's a lousy taskmaster.
SPEAKER_01 (31:57):
Why is he a lousy taskmaster?
SPEAKER_00 (31:58):
Well, because you run out of it.
You just run out of will.
But habit is the way to do it.
And do you know that everyevening I um lay out my clothes?
Did you know I do that?
SPEAKER_01 (32:09):
You what you lay out your your your Lululemons for
the nation?
Yeah, I lay it all out.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:13):
So when I get up in the morning, I I'm I don't have
to think.
I get up and I put them on and Iput the lead on the dog because
he comes with me and I I havethe kettle half filled so I can
have tea.
So it is an easy exit.
SPEAKER_01 (32:26):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:26):
But you I'm not searching for things in the
cupboard.
SPEAKER_01 (32:29):
You've planned that the night before?
SPEAKER_00 (32:30):
I do.
SPEAKER_01 (32:30):
Okay.
Yeah, so these are all goodhygiene factors to build a new
habit, you know, make it easyfor you to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (32:35):
Yeah, but but then back to this notion is it was it
determined in my character thatit would be easy for me to do
that?
I don't know.
Okay, it's just maybe it was.
SPEAKER_01 (32:43):
What kind of emotional turmoil is is created
in you by the thought of notgoing to the gym?
Terrible.
You hate it.
I hate it.
You really hate it.
It makes you antsy.
Yeah.
Um and so uh you you youactually do have an immediate
visceral response to missing outon going to the gym.
I do, that's true.
And so again, it's not willpowerthat gets you there.
You want to be there becauseyou've built this lovely habit,
and you're probably more of alark anyway, in terms of your,
(33:07):
you know, your biorhythms.
You know, what happens with yourcortisol and oh actually that
could be right.
SPEAKER_00 (33:12):
So maybe okay, let's look at this.
So maybe in the deterministicpart of it, it's easier for me
because I'm lackier.
I'm okay to get up earlier.
SPEAKER_01 (33:21):
A bit lackier, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:22):
I'm a bit lackier.
And maybe I'm maybe I ha do havea lot of conscientiousness in my
um in my in my personality type,so it's important to me if I say
I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna doit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Maybe so maybe there is a lot ofdeterministic stuff, which means
(33:43):
that it's wrong to judgesomebody else who does not have
that.
Yeah.
Stop looking, that's the worstsmile you've ever given me.
This was awful.
Well what do you mean?
I'm still sitting in this messyroom.
SPEAKER_01 (34:00):
I'm admiring you for uh for for for such a cogent
train of thought.
SPEAKER_00 (34:03):
Oh, I'm great, aren't I?
So I guess it's how long have webeen talking?
SPEAKER_01 (34:07):
Oh, about uh about 36 minutes.
Does this mean that you're goingto be less uh judgy when you
come back in the morning?
SPEAKER_00 (34:15):
I'll tell you what it would make me less judgy.
SPEAKER_01 (34:18):
What would make you less judgy?
SPEAKER_00 (34:19):
If you did what you said and and would do some gym
late in the day.
SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
Ah, because you're actually not being judgy.
You are concerned about mywell-being.
SPEAKER_00 (34:29):
I actually am.
Okay.
I worry that you yourcardiovascular health will
suffer if you don't um exercise.
So that's it's more that I Iworry about it.
SPEAKER_02 (34:43):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (34:43):
And as you know, I have I I am an anxious person,
so I worry about you, and andit's the same anxiety in a way
that arises in me if I don'texercise.
SPEAKER_01 (34:54):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (34:56):
That makes sense.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:58):
However, you are messier than me.
SPEAKER_01 (35:00):
That was a very compelling post-rationalisation
that you just gave us.
SPEAKER_00 (35:03):
Oh my god.
Anyway, um, so here we are,ladies, discussing the things
that I think affect allrelationships.
Um we we do know that um Davidis actually very good at not
being gendered uh in mostthings.
Uh I know a lot of women are inrelationships where the men are.
(35:27):
There is a lot of genderstereotyping and that can make
it really difficult.
And also things like um oneperson is more ordered than
another can cause ructions in arelationship unless you can find
a way to talk about it.
So I think it's important tosort of out these things, have a
(35:48):
chat about it.
If you do have a differentrhythm, maybe look at why that
is a problem, or is it really aproblem, or can you find another
way around the problem so thatwhat we're not living in is a a
heightened, um, overly stressedenvironment, which is, as we
know, it does not cause 99% ofillnesses, but we don't want
ongoing stress in our livesbecause it's not good for us.
(36:10):
Um did you want to saysomething, David?
SPEAKER_01 (36:12):
Oh, and I as you as you were just d describing that,
I was thinking that uh probablymost of the um most of those
those those points of conflict,those po points of drama in a
relationship, they do tend to bethe same thing that was causing
trouble yesterday and the daybefore and the day before and
the day before.
SPEAKER_00 (36:28):
What is that?
Well, I'm just I'm just sayingOh 100% the recurrent.
SPEAKER_01 (36:33):
When you've got people who are operating in
different rhythms, you know, oneperson's a morning person, one
person's an evening person, oneperson, you know, is messy.
Is into is into a particularhabit of only being able to
achieve anything in a state ofpristine order.
SPEAKER_00 (36:46):
No, not pristine order.
It's not true.
Just a normal amount of things.
SPEAKER_01 (36:50):
Oh, you're just an example, Annie, it was just a
possibility.
I wasn't I wasn't talking aboutyou there.
SPEAKER_00 (36:54):
Just a normal amount of touchy on that, aren't you?
Of not having massive disarray.
So, anyway, on that, smartwomen, thank you so much for
tuning in.
Um hope you're all having areasonably good day, even a very
good day, wherever you are inthe world.
SPEAKER_01 (37:12):
Um That was very cautious, wasn't it?
You couldn't just say have agreat day.
SPEAKER_00 (37:16):
Okay, well, you know, because what if someone's
having an awful time and thensomeone says have a good day?
SPEAKER_01 (37:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:22):
And you're like, Well, I'm not having a good day,
and then it reminds you thatyou're not having a good day.
So if you're not having anawesome day, that's also fine.
And I hope it improves becauseeveryone's dealing with
something right.
So, um, yeah, that's the truthof it.
So, um, wherever you are in theworld, stay safe, stay well,
(37:42):
keep your critical thinking hatson, and talk to you soon.
See you later.
Bye.
Thanks for tuning in to WiseSmart Women with me, Annie
McCubbin.
I hope today's episode hasignited your curiosity and left
you feeling inspired by myanti-motivational style.
Join me next time as we continueto unravel the fascinating
(38:03):
layers of our brains and developways to sort out the facts from
the fiction and the over 6,000thoughts we have in the course
of every day.
Remember, intelligence isn'tenough.
You can be as smart as paint,but it's not just about what you
know, it's about how you think.
And in all this talk of whetheror not you can trust your gut.
(38:25):
If you ever feel unsafe, whetherit's in the street, at work, at
a car park, in a bar, or in yourown home, please, please respect
that gut feeling.
Staying safe needs to be ourprimary objective.
We can build better lives, butwe have to stay safe to do that.
And don't forget to subscribe,rate, and review the podcast and
(38:47):
share it with your fellow smartwomen and allies.
Together we're hopefullyreshaping the narrative around
women and making betterdecisions.
So until next time, stay sharp,stay savvy, and keep your
critical thinking at shiny.
This is Annie McCubbin signingoff from White Smart Women.
See you later.
This episode was produced byHarrison Hess.
(39:10):
It was executive produced andwritten by me, Annie McCubbin.
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