November 10, 2025 • 31 mins
We unpack how a once unified protest movement fractured into rival factions and why that vacuum drew in neo-Nazi groups. We explore the psychology that keeps people in, from grief and defiance to false cures, and share practical ways to build scepticism and safety.
• cooker wars defined and why the split matters
• loss of clear goals and rise of hero complexes
• vague slogans on migration, energy and corruption
• neo-Nazi involvement and the Camp Sovereignty attack
• recruitment tactics, grooming and tradwife nostalgia
• Andrew Tate’s misogyny and brittle masculinity
• harmful “cures” like aged urine and black salve
• how defiance sustains conspiracy identities
• practical scepticism for families and young people
• safety, boundaries and drawing lines against hate
And don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast and share it with your fellow smart women and allies
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
You are listening to the white smart women.
Smart women went to the city.
Finances.
(00:44):
I acknowledge that traditionalowners of the land in which I'm
recording and you are listeningon this day.
Always was, always will be,Aboriginal land.
Well, hello, smart women, andwelcome back to the Why Smart
Women Podcast.
Um, today it is um a beautifulspring day here in Sydney, New
South Wales, Australia.
(01:05):
And as I said a couple of daysago, I don't want to brag, but
it is pretty extraordinary.
It's an extraordinary place tolive.
But of course, within living inthis extraordinary place, as we
do, there are still some crazypeople that say some crazy
things and organise some crazymarches.
So um today I am talking to uhmy favorite debunker in the
(01:31):
entire world, and that is Mr.
Snake Gherkin.
Hello, Snaky.
SPEAKER_00 (01:37):
Hi, Annie.
Nice for you to have me back.
Thank you.
It's always great.
SPEAKER_01 (01:41):
I know we've been trying to actually get you back
now for almost two months,haven't we?
SPEAKER_00 (01:47):
I know my my ASIO agent just hasn't allowed me the
time.
I've I've keep keep asking himwhen when can I and just just to
get approval and sign off andyou just it just gets caught up
in in the bureaucracy.
So I'm glad um I've just gonerogue and and decided to come
on.
So he's gonna be able to dothat.
SPEAKER_01 (02:03):
Yeah, so yeah, so I I hope that this doesn't I hope
this doesn't result in in youbeing you know abducted and sent
to a safe house or anything likethat for the next six years.
SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
We'll see.
We'll see.
If I go missing, you know what'shappened.
SPEAKER_01 (02:15):
So yeah, well uh but who would I report it to?
You see, it's it's like blackops, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00 (02:20):
The the vegetable bureau or something.
Yes, we'll figure it out.
SPEAKER_01 (02:24):
The Gherkin Bureau.
SPEAKER_00 (02:26):
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (02:27):
So we're Snakey and I are joined today by my dog
Ryder.
Um, listeners can't see him, butlisteners who have been um
attuned to the story of Ryder'smishaps.
Um I'll quickly fill him in.
Uh Ryder fought swallowed aLululemon sock, and um, that
resulted in um a long andinvolved surgery, and um, but
(02:49):
he's having his stitches outtomorrow.
SPEAKER_00 (02:52):
And uh let's get Ryder in the in the thumbnail
that he could be a part of thethe Gherkin verse officially.
SPEAKER_01 (02:58):
Yeah, I I think he is in the Gherkin verse, and and
we we know there is we know fora fact that there was something
covert going on because I tellyou, I'll tell you how I know
that, Snarky, is because I don'twear Lululemon.
So I don't I don't want to maketoo much of it, but I'm going
to, you know, somebody somewherehas fed my dog a Lululemon sock,
(03:20):
knowing it was going to resultin surgery.
So I'm seeing some definitelycovert activity going on.
What do you reckon?
SPEAKER_00 (03:27):
I reckon sounds sketchy.
It does.
I have to think about that,lament on it for a bit.
SPEAKER_01 (03:32):
Yeah, do do contemplate that.
So what Snarky and I are goingto talk about today, apart from
the uh the the secret sockfeeding to my dog is um is the
cooker wars, what we fondlyrefer to as the cooker wars.
So, how do we get here, Snarky?
How come we're in this positionwhere um the cookers, who are
(03:54):
our um sort of rag tagcollective of conspiracy
theorists, how come they're nowat war with each other and why
does it matter?
SPEAKER_00 (04:06):
Well, my I've got several theories on the guard at
the minute.
I think one of them is they allhave the hero narrative complex
in their brains, so yeah, theyall want to be the leaders.
Um yeah, so it's all just it'sall splintered.
I mean, there's definitely a lotof grift involved, they all see
something lucrative in it, a lotof them, and so they want a part
(04:28):
of it.
Yeah, but I had to writetogether a bit of a chronology
this morning because it's justgetting so complicated.
SPEAKER_01 (04:34):
Over here in Australia, we must say that um
the cooker activity um has beengetting a bit febrile.
And for those of you who live umum in foreign lands, um you
would be unaware that we havethis, you know, this sort of
collective of conspiracytheorists, and they've been
(04:57):
very, very busy in the lastcouple of months, have they not,
Snarky?
SPEAKER_00 (05:00):
That's right.
And they've they they don't havea uh uh an overarching sort of
narrative anymore either.
So during the lockdowns, it wasall anti-lockdown and they were
really unified, where now it'sjust like real broad stroke
terms, like no corruption andand stuff, but it's like, yeah,
(05:21):
we no one's for corruption, butwhat yeah, what precise
corruption are you talkingabout?
Yeah, and then then they'll comeout with like the list of the 27
or or some bizarre like kind ofcrap that they've they've found
that that doesn't, it's all justloopy land stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (05:37):
It's loopy land.
Um yeah, the these very broadbrushstroke statements like um
no no no corruption and thegovernment is out to get us,
that that sort of thing is veryhard to counter, isn't it?
Because what are you actuallytalking about?
SPEAKER_00 (05:54):
Yeah, and it's the same, like sort of thinking this
recently around one of thetalking points.
So I think the main talkingpoints, the the three main
talking points that I can recalltop my head is like no more mass
migration, um energy prices andum would be uh corruption,
(06:16):
right?
So on the face of it to normies,it's like most people like,
yeah, okay, but first of all,it's like define what you mean
by mass migration.
Oh no, I no, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (06:27):
So we did talk about this last night.
I remember talking about thisthis mass, this is prior.
We talked about the the thebullshit notion of mass
migration being at the at the isthe is pretty much the central
um issue between every singlething that's going wrong in the
country.
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
But you realize it's just yeah, it it you you scratch
the surface and it's just anyanyone that's not wise.
Yeah, like that's what we it'sit's not even clear if that's
even the case.
Like they they want to some farright politicians just want to
freeze to all migration for fiveyears and just so we can see you
know what happened.
It's just like it's any anygenuine critique or or proposal
(07:11):
for, you know, maybe maybe thethe skilled migration visa does
need a retweaking.
Like, is it is it is events areevent coordinators as essential
as say tradies?
I don't know.
Like it's it's there areprobably some genuine critiques
to discuss if you had, but allof that's just been railroaded
completely by the the nonsenseof these groups, and it's a
shame that um that yeah, thatthat they've probably done more
(07:35):
harm than than anything um interms of trying to like get
genuine reform.
Same with like energy prices andthings, it's like no one's happy
about them, but they also rubshoulders with a lot of these
mining oligarchs and and stuffand who who are responsible in
some part to the the increase inenergy.
Yeah.
Um they fund Sky News, theyfund, you know, who funds who
(07:58):
are you saying funds Sky News?
Well, well, there's there'sthere's um like Gina Reinhart,
etc., they they pump money intointo various media outlets and
you know, or they manipulate itin in certain ways.
Um I can imagine if thegovernment tried to put in
genuine reform with energycompanies, like the first thing
(08:20):
a lot of these like far-rightconservatives would be saying
is, oh, this is this isoverreach, this is etc.
So if they try to put a cap onon you know price per ton, etc.
then um or try to like clampdown on you know gain more more
taxes or less subsidies to a lotof these mining companies, they
they go batshit crazy as well.
So like they don't have anysolution in my opinion, I could
(08:43):
be fully wrong, but that'sthat's my take on it.
Um then we've got back tocorruption, which is like okay,
well, what what corruption?
I'm sure it exists.
SPEAKER_01 (08:51):
I'm sure, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (08:53):
What yeah, like what what corruption, who who
precisely are you talking about?
Like not just Elbow wore at-shirt on a plane, or you know,
like just like what corruptionwas.
SPEAKER_01 (09:02):
Oh, there was such a fuss about Elbow um wearing the
Joy Division t-shirt on theplane, right?
Yeah, yeah, and then yeah, thethe problem with the first so if
we can talk about so for our umoverseas listeners, um there was
um um across the nation, so inevery capital city, they had
organized a march, um, thesecollection of of conspiracy
(09:25):
theorists.
Um so I think in Sydney andMelbourne that they wildly,
wildly um over-exaggerated thenumbers, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:36):
Yeah, that's that's right.
We did uh we we touched on itpreviously around the the
underwhelming sort of turnout,but they they were somewhat
impressed with it.
What's worth calling out here aswell, and it it it even in my
own content it hasn't beenspoken about enough, but after
in the aftermath of of thatfirst um gathering in which was
(09:57):
back in August, um the theattack from NSN on camp
sovereignty, I think they andand for okay, so let's just
let's just unpack that.
SPEAKER_01 (10:08):
So um as as we know, um there was uh the neo-Nazis
joined the march, and that wasdenied, wasn't it, by people
like Beck Freedom?
SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
It was, but I mean it was so blatant, they were so
front and center of that march.
Um they were cheered, they'llclapped, they'll give in the
center stage that that it justwasn't even deniable.
I mean, they they had been evenclaiming from the outset that
they helped organise it behindthe scenes.
That had been denied, but thenduring the actual protest
(10:41):
itself, um the NSN were likehang on, what's the NS just
explain that?
Oh the sorry, the the NationalSocialist Network, which is
groups in in Australia.
So they I I wouldn't even saythey hijacked the optics.
I think they just they they werewelcomed, they were invited to
(11:02):
marched in front and um youknow, up front flags flying.
They were bold enough, a lot ofthem took their face coverings
off, and the leader of the NSNgroup, Thomas Sewell, took took
podium and was cheered andclapped.
And I mean, credit to some uh inin the groups.
I mean, there are there are somefootage if in in various cities
(11:23):
where um they had were booed,but we're talking like a a
fraction of of the crowd.
I mean, they're also equallycheered and and given centre
stage.
So 100%.
SPEAKER_01 (11:33):
Um and why do you think why do you think that um
that that is?
What do you think is theunderlying psychology of why I
mean you know, neo-Nazis is justis just a terrible, terrible
thing.
And I have read awful thingsabout um, you know, the
Holocaust never happened, and umit's disgusting.
(11:54):
It's really, really disgusting.
And you know, someone wastalking about Anne Franken going
as if so there's all this sortof tampering, this terrible
retelling of the narrative andtampering with history.
So why do you think that thecons I'll call them the
conspiracy theorists justbecause I don't know, just in
(12:15):
case the cookers doesn't quitehit the mark with people.
Why do you think they did sosort of alarmingly align
themselves with the neo-Nazisand also sort of stand by while
there was that attack on onthat?
What was the camp?
SPEAKER_00 (12:32):
It's camp sovereignty in in Melbourne.
SPEAKER_01 (12:35):
And what is that exactly?
SPEAKER_00 (12:37):
I I'm probably not the best place to talk about it
because I I'm not I'm notterribly familiar with camp
sovereignty.
Uh I I know it's there, but I Idon't know its overarching kind
of aims, etc.
It'd probably be really valuableto have someone from Camp
Sovereignty on at some point toto talk about sort of what what
what they do, uh, etc.
(12:58):
Um, I should know more about it.
Um, I admittedly don't, so I'mnot gonna um it'd be
disrespectful for me to speak onon what they do and and um But
it was pe it's peaceful, right?
SPEAKER_01 (13:09):
Oh that's right, that's right.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
It's it's it's an indigenous uh uh site of of of
significance.
Yeah, it it um you know there'svigils held and it's um it's
it's near the the shrine ofremembrance and the way that
it's been likened to me is thatit's it's it's like an
indigenous shrine to to s insome regards, and it's it also
you know it advocates for umindigenous sovereignty, um
(13:33):
indigenous um reconciliation,deter self-determination, etc.
So I've yeah, but it it's yeah,I'm I'm probably the um it's
it's probably doesn't do itjustice here in Panama.
I think talk about it, but yeah,yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:46):
We broadly understand that it is um it's an
indigenous peaceful camp, right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:53):
That's it.
It's not even politicallyaligned to to the to the best of
my knowledge.
Like it's it's it's it's apretty apolitical, it's I mean
it's it's it's not a um apolitically aligned necessarily
like um group or or or area.
Like it's uh it's everybody'swelcome there.
Like it's yeah, um, but it itwas yeah, it was blatantly
(14:15):
attacked by uh by who whoattacked it by the the the NSN.
So uh uh the the the members ofof the NSN afterwards, there's
this footage of it ishorrendous.
So um they all ran up in a lineand and started, you know, um
boot kicking women, and therewas a disabled elderly chap that
they were laying into, and theythey just yeah, just just weak
(14:38):
little boys, like just umunprovoked, unexpected, snuck
up, and and that's it.
So just just weak, weak littleboys.
SPEAKER_01 (14:45):
Uh yeah, weak little boys, that's right.
Looking looking for yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
Yeah, so thankfully Thomas was was arrested sort of
hours after that, I think thefollowing day, yeah, following
that assault.
And for for various othercharges, he's still believe he's
still in custody, which is whichis good, been denied bail
several times, and so the thegroup itself sort of splinter a
bit.
Yeah, they were splintered.
SPEAKER_01 (15:09):
Um one of his uh neo-Nazi um compatriots um was
also arrested.
And um his aunt, there was thisreally did you happen to hear
his aunt talking?
I don't know if it was the 730report.
Oh, I think I do now.
(15:30):
And she it was she gave thisreally eloquent sort of speech
about how devastated the familywere that he'd joined.
SPEAKER_00 (15:37):
Yeah.
Yeah, I do recall that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:40):
Yeah, and and how they just could not understand
how he'd gone in this direction.
SPEAKER_00 (15:46):
Um could I do a bit of a shout-out for the
listeners?
I'm not I don't know himdirectly and I'm I'm not
necessarily advocating, but II'd strongly recommend um uh Tom
Tanuki on YouTube.
He does this really uh TomTanuki, he's uh um he does some
really good uh um long form deepdives on the NSN and other
(16:08):
various groups, like he's beenbeen following them for years.
I'll send you some links.
SPEAKER_01 (16:13):
Yeah, we'll put the links in the show notes.
That's a good that's a greatidea.
SPEAKER_00 (16:17):
He goes into details about how the NSN is into like
grooming and and other variousthings, like in terms of how
they recruit and how they keepsort of they the grooming is a
part of trying to keep everyonewithin the circle and it it's
it's all pretty hideous.
Um the the leader himself waswas likely sort of groomed from
a young age into this sort ofthing, and it it's it's pretty
(16:40):
hideous, but it it's worth um ifyou're listening to the time or
even yourself any after this toum do do a deep dive on it.
It's it's pretty well wellstructured and put together.
Like he explains it far moreeloquently than I could.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
I've just finished reading um clown town, which
which is the story of AndrewTate.
Um yeah, and it's it'sbreathtaking the the the
philosophy that they areactually um championing is
(17:19):
astonishing in its absolutelyovert misogyny, and this
constant narrative that they'vegot going, Andrew Tate, and he
had millions and millions offollowers.
So all you need is a boy who'sfeeling marginalized, you know,
(17:41):
who doesn't have a good strongfriendship group who maybe has
been um, I don't know, rejectedby a girl to sort of join this
Andrew Tate-ish philosophicalgroup where, in their opinion,
men are the ones that are beingrobbed of their human rights,
and women have all the power.
(18:03):
And that is the very much theoverarching philosophy of Andrew
Tate, and his thing wassomething called the war room in
Romania, and um the the the menwould pay all this money to turn
up and fight in a ring.
I mean, it's just so sort ofprimitive, and the and the and
the ideology about women, andwhat they did was they would
(18:26):
groom the men, groom these boys,and then the boys would get
their girlfriends and then dothis terrible sort of love
bombing and then withdrawing oflove and love bombing again, and
then they would just turn them,they would just turn them into
these um um online um sex toys,and that's what they did.
It's unbelievable what they gotaway with, but that surely that
(18:51):
philosophy of men trying to findsome sort of masculinity through
this terrible lens, that mustalso infect the neo-Nazis, do
you think?
SPEAKER_00 (19:03):
I I think so.
It's a sense, yeah, and and uhin in one of the long form
videos that Tom Tanukki does,like he goes into detail about
how you know one of the issuesthat you know they recruit these
like young teenage boys um ininto their ranks and make them
feel a sense of community andpart of it.
But what naturally happens isthey get a bit older and they
get girlfriends, and you know,any normal person would say,
(19:26):
What are you fucking in thatgroup for?
And so they then you know theythey probably a lot of the guys
drop off because they're like,Oh, well, yeah, probably right.
Like as soon as they leave thethe the sort of enclosure of
that group, yeah.
And so what they then try to dois well, let's recruit young
women then to then be with theseyoung boys, and then it's a
(19:48):
perfectly kind of insular kindof circle, and then they'll have
kids and they're I'll raisetheir kids, you know, and so
it's this um it's a prettyhideous, and I'm sure other
other other um nasty stuff goeson, but it it's that that's the
theory that that's put forward.
Um it's it's pretty well.
Um I call it a theory, but butit's it's documented pretty well
(20:10):
in some of the on-form videos.
SPEAKER_01 (20:12):
So absolutely if you just look at the whole um trad
wife thing in America as well,it's sort of it's sort of and
for anybody who's unfamiliar,this is a Christian um, this is
a sort of a Christian rightideology where women are going
back to, you know, raising kids,being in the kitchen, being
(20:34):
subservient to their husbands,it's very American, dressing in
aprons, and um, you know, theymust never ever deny their
husband sex because it's hisright.
And um, they're even talkingabout, you know, why would they
need voting rights?
They just would vote the waytheir husband votes.
So this sort of terrible threadof ideology, and do you think
(20:56):
that runs through the cookers aswell?
What what's your opinion onthat?
SPEAKER_00 (21:00):
Oh, there's probably some desire for there's there's
always a desire to go back to adifferent time uh for for a lot
of the the cookers, you know, toto when things were were
supposedly great, but I justdon't think they ever were
looking at it from a hhistorical.
Things never work.
SPEAKER_01 (21:17):
No, no, no.
No, never, never, never never.
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
There is a nostalgia for that sort of thing, but I
think for a lot of people, it'sjust what I've got.
It's not all of them, um, but alot of them life hasn't worked
out the way they thought itwould.
And so they blame other peoplerather than being
self-reflecting.
I mean, there's there's like Ihave this like theory, and I've
I back during the lockdown dayswhen we've had a lot of time on
(21:41):
our hands, I I sort of thoughtthat every every villain, every
every every major sort of cookerpersonality had a almost like a
villain sort of origin story,like some sort of traumatic
thing that happened that madethem.
Yeah, and I I I had this sort ofsort of mental game that I'd I'd
play with a a friend of mine.
(22:01):
I was like, what do you thinkhappened to this person?
And and you do some deep dives,so I won't won't go into
specifics, but you know, therewas there was one chap who was
um uh like he's he's he's anobody now, like but but at one
point he had quite a bigfollowing to in during the
Melbourne lockdowns.
But looking at his like uh don'task me that, somehow a cousin of
his joined a and a legitimatelylike a cousin of his um joined a
(22:25):
crypolsine and we we startedchatting and he was saying like
back in like 2015, like hismother had had passed away of of
inoperable cancer, which wasreally sad, right?
Um and it was um you knowthere'd been some complaints in
the months leading up where thethe mother had gone to the
hospital and it was insistedthat she was fine and it just
wasn't picked up in for forwhatever various reasons.
(22:47):
I don't know what type of cancerit was or the the specifics,
right?
But after that, like he's thethe dad, the trauma of that that
sudden loss, um, the dad and thebrother had taken like a hard
turn right towards likeconspiracy nanobots, like it's
all it's all like you know, thissort of thing, right?
(23:10):
And so in five years in thatleading up to the pandemic, like
there was just this this thistrauma had had conditioned
basically like it was ahousehold of four.
Um, there was three, it was thefather, two brothers, and uh,
you know, um the father, um, youknow, there was this this chap
I'm talking about, his brotherand and and the sister.
Now the sister left home andjust got on with her life, but
(23:32):
the the three of them still inthat household had just become
completely cooked.
And so that's this this chap wastelling me that, and so that was
quite verifiable.
And it's like, okay, it's a sadsituation.
I kind of that that's theirorigin story.
I'm not making fun of it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:48):
Um no, not at all.
But it's interesting their ownyeah, and I think that's an
important thing to note that um,you know, if you're you're way
less likely to be pulled into uhsome sort of deeply tangled
conspiracy theory if you comefrom a safe, supported, um, you
know, sort of reasonablyfunctional family that probably
(24:11):
just listens to the mainstreammedia.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Like other times it's it'smarriage breakdowns, it's you
know, it's like, oh, you know,if only you know, it's this
feminism crap, which is why shedoesn't put up with my nonsense.
You know, it's sort of likerather than self-reflection,
like, you know, I like to thinkthat if my wife sort of said,
hey, not pulling your weight, orI'm not not content, I'd I'd
(24:34):
self-reflect and think, whatcould I do better?
rather than going down theAndrew Tape.
SPEAKER_01 (24:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:41):
Oh, it's that darn feminism, you know, having she's
having independent thoughtsagain, you know.
That's yeah, yeah.
How dare you know?
I'm I'm broadly generalizing,but I I think it's a combination
of those like traumatic thingshappen to people.
Um you know, uh life doesn'twork out the way it's supposed
to, which is can be traumatic initself, um, rather than
self-reflecting, which ispainful.
(25:02):
It's just easy to blame, youknow.
Um absolutely to blame thesystem.
Chemtrails or yeah, the pilot30,000 feet up spraying, and
that's you know, chemtrails.
SPEAKER_01 (25:12):
Chemtrails, the chemtrails that have been going
nuts lately.
And there's another woman ononline, I won't say her name.
Yeah, um, but she is an advocateof um washing herself and
drinking aged urine, which iswhich is a favorite among some
of the cookers.
I don't get it, but it's very,very well documented.
(25:35):
A lot of them consume aged urineand washing it and and fix their
pets.
I I don't know what they do, Idon't want to think too much
about it, but um yeah, she hasshe sort of lives this sort of
itinerant life, washing herselfin her urine, and she's lost
control of her children, theyhave been removed from her.
(25:56):
Um, and so she of course goes tocourt and stands there, you
know, talking about her agedurine and why can't she have the
children back, blaming thesystem, like blaming the system
that she's not allowed access?
Well, you know, she lookscompletely mad, and probably
(26:18):
what she needs is to have mentalhealth support, right?
Yeah, she got it like on thescene or a partner or sports
supporting or she's on her own,her partner has her children,
and of course, she's devastatedand furious about not having
access.
Well, why would you allow yourchildren to have access to it to
cook to somebody who'scompletely mad?
But instead of her getting thepsychological support, you know,
(26:41):
that she needs, um, she's sortof wandered into these deeply
strange theories about urine andand chemtrails and and big
pharma, and of course, she'slost.
It's a sense of control as well.
SPEAKER_00 (26:58):
Yeah, it is it is she can't control anything else,
but she can control piss, youknow, and so that's that's the
the golden fountain or whatevershe whatever they call it.
SPEAKER_01 (27:09):
It's really common, as is um that's it, as is people
using black salve to fix theirskin cancers or whatever, which
is this corrosive substance.
And there's there's been arecent legal court case around
um the woman, I'm not going touse any names, who who was
selling it.
And so they just they just youknow move somewhere else and
(27:31):
call it something else and keepselling it.
And people end up with you knowan inch deep cavity in their
face, but they're like, no, no,it really works because it's not
big pharma, it's really mad.
It's really mad.
SPEAKER_00 (27:42):
And my name, my wait till my naysaying kids see the
it being cured, and it's almostlike again, it's like for a lot
of these older people, it's asense of losing control.
The kids now are adults who areprobably looking after them to
some extent, or at least youknow, and saying, Mom, you
shouldn't be using that.
And it's um and it's it's it'shard for them to sort of like to
(28:04):
to come to terms with thatreality.
So they are um they're secretlygoing to use this elixir or
whatever it is to kill them.
SPEAKER_01 (28:13):
It's called black salve, it's it's terrible.
SPEAKER_00 (28:16):
It's it's yeah, I've read a few of those posts
recently, and yeah, that one ofthem said that using it on a a
melanoma, quite an advancedmelanoma on their hands.
Great.
They're like, my my naysayingdaughter, you know, wait till
she sees how good this isworking and and stuff.
And it almost just seemedthey'll just use it out of
defiance just to sort of showtheir kids that they they still
knew better.
SPEAKER_01 (28:37):
And I wonder if there is some, you know, I
wonder how much defiance playsinto this whole oh hugely it
does.
SPEAKER_00 (28:45):
Yeah, the whole I I think massively it does.
SPEAKER_01 (28:47):
I mean, I think that's a very interesting um
discussion about some of thepsychological issues that
underpin these belief systems.
And I just I just wish we asdebunkers and skeptics had more
influence over some of theseideologies because I see young
people being infected with them,and it really, really worries
(29:09):
me.
And it must it must worry you aswell.
You have children.
SPEAKER_00 (29:12):
Oh, it does, yeah.
Young, young children, youngdaughters, and um it, you know,
um, yeah, like that's that's it.
Like my daughters have to growup, and um yeah, my daughters
have to grow up in the worldwith these, so yeah.
Yeah with these sort of umpeople.
SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
So be ho be hopeful because my children are adults
now, and um neither of them havea conspiracy thinking bone in
their body, they're highlyskeptical.
So living in the house with you,I'm feeling pretty confident
your daughters are going to beokay.
SPEAKER_00 (29:44):
I think so.
Yeah, thank you.
Appreciate that.
SPEAKER_01 (29:46):
Um, so thanks for that, listeners.
Um, please tune in um for ournext episode where Snake and I
talk about the Cooker Wars.
Thanks for tuning in to WhySmart Women with me, Annie
McCubbin.
I hope today's episode hasignited your curiosity and left
(30:10):
you feeling inspired by myanti-motivational style.
Join me next time as we continueto unravel the fascinating
layers of our brains and developways to sort out the fact from
the fiction and the over 6,000thoughts we have in the course
of every day.
Remember, intelligence isn'tenough.
You can be as smart as paint,but it's not just about what you
(30:33):
know, it's about how you think.
And in all this talk of whetheror not you can trust your gut,
if you ever feel unsafe, whetherit's in the street, at work, car
park, in a bar, or in your ownhome, please, please respect
that gut feeling.
Staying safe needs to be ourprimary objective.
(30:53):
We can build better lives, butwe have to stay safe to do that.
And don't forget to subscribe,rate, and review the podcast and
share it with your fellow smartwomen and allies.
Together we're hopefullyreshaping the narrative around
women and making betterdecisions.
So until next time, stay sharp,stay savvy, and keep your
(31:14):
critical thinking hat shiny.
This is Annie McCubbin signingoff from Why Smart Women.
See you later.
This episode was produced byHarrison Hess.
It was executive produced andwritten by me, Annie McCubbin.
You are listening to the white smart women.
Smart women went to the city.
Finances.
(00:44):
I acknowledge that traditionalowners of the land in which I'm
recording and you are listeningon this day.
Always was, always will be,Aboriginal land.
Well, hello, smart women, andwelcome back to the Why Smart
Women Podcast.
Um, today it is um a beautifulspring day here in Sydney, New
South Wales, Australia.
(01:05):
And as I said a couple of daysago, I don't want to brag, but
it is pretty extraordinary.
It's an extraordinary place tolive.
But of course, within living inthis extraordinary place, as we
do, there are still some crazypeople that say some crazy
things and organise some crazymarches.
So um today I am talking to uhmy favorite debunker in the
(01:31):
entire world, and that is Mr.
Snake Gherkin.
Hello, Snaky.
SPEAKER_00 (01:37):
Hi, Annie.
Nice for you to have me back.
Thank you.
It's always great.
SPEAKER_01 (01:41):
I know we've been trying to actually get you back
now for almost two months,haven't we?
SPEAKER_00 (01:47):
I know my my ASIO agent just hasn't allowed me the
time.
I've I've keep keep asking himwhen when can I and just just to
get approval and sign off andyou just it just gets caught up
in in the bureaucracy.
So I'm glad um I've just gonerogue and and decided to come
on.
So he's gonna be able to dothat.
SPEAKER_01 (02:03):
Yeah, so yeah, so I I hope that this doesn't I hope
this doesn't result in in youbeing you know abducted and sent
to a safe house or anything likethat for the next six years.
SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
We'll see.
We'll see.
If I go missing, you know what'shappened.
SPEAKER_01 (02:15):
So yeah, well uh but who would I report it to?
You see, it's it's like blackops, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00 (02:20):
The the vegetable bureau or something.
Yes, we'll figure it out.
SPEAKER_01 (02:24):
The Gherkin Bureau.
SPEAKER_00 (02:26):
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (02:27):
So we're Snakey and I are joined today by my dog
Ryder.
Um, listeners can't see him, butlisteners who have been um
attuned to the story of Ryder'smishaps.
Um I'll quickly fill him in.
Uh Ryder fought swallowed aLululemon sock, and um, that
resulted in um a long andinvolved surgery, and um, but
(02:49):
he's having his stitches outtomorrow.
SPEAKER_00 (02:52):
And uh let's get Ryder in the in the thumbnail
that he could be a part of thethe Gherkin verse officially.
SPEAKER_01 (02:58):
Yeah, I I think he is in the Gherkin verse, and and
we we know there is we know fora fact that there was something
covert going on because I tellyou, I'll tell you how I know
that, Snarky, is because I don'twear Lululemon.
So I don't I don't want to maketoo much of it, but I'm going
to, you know, somebody somewherehas fed my dog a Lululemon sock,
(03:20):
knowing it was going to resultin surgery.
So I'm seeing some definitelycovert activity going on.
What do you reckon?
SPEAKER_00 (03:27):
I reckon sounds sketchy.
It does.
I have to think about that,lament on it for a bit.
SPEAKER_01 (03:32):
Yeah, do do contemplate that.
So what Snarky and I are goingto talk about today, apart from
the uh the the secret sockfeeding to my dog is um is the
cooker wars, what we fondlyrefer to as the cooker wars.
So, how do we get here, Snarky?
How come we're in this positionwhere um the cookers, who are
(03:54):
our um sort of rag tagcollective of conspiracy
theorists, how come they're nowat war with each other and why
does it matter?
SPEAKER_00 (04:06):
Well, my I've got several theories on the guard at
the minute.
I think one of them is they allhave the hero narrative complex
in their brains, so yeah, theyall want to be the leaders.
Um yeah, so it's all just it'sall splintered.
I mean, there's definitely a lotof grift involved, they all see
something lucrative in it, a lotof them, and so they want a part
(04:28):
of it.
Yeah, but I had to writetogether a bit of a chronology
this morning because it's justgetting so complicated.
SPEAKER_01 (04:34):
Over here in Australia, we must say that um
the cooker activity um has beengetting a bit febrile.
And for those of you who live umum in foreign lands, um you
would be unaware that we havethis, you know, this sort of
collective of conspiracytheorists, and they've been
(04:57):
very, very busy in the lastcouple of months, have they not,
Snarky?
SPEAKER_00 (05:00):
That's right.
And they've they they don't havea uh uh an overarching sort of
narrative anymore either.
So during the lockdowns, it wasall anti-lockdown and they were
really unified, where now it'sjust like real broad stroke
terms, like no corruption andand stuff, but it's like, yeah,
(05:21):
we no one's for corruption, butwhat yeah, what precise
corruption are you talkingabout?
Yeah, and then then they'll comeout with like the list of the 27
or or some bizarre like kind ofcrap that they've they've found
that that doesn't, it's all justloopy land stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (05:37):
It's loopy land.
Um yeah, the these very broadbrushstroke statements like um
no no no corruption and thegovernment is out to get us,
that that sort of thing is veryhard to counter, isn't it?
Because what are you actuallytalking about?
SPEAKER_00 (05:54):
Yeah, and it's the same, like sort of thinking this
recently around one of thetalking points.
So I think the main talkingpoints, the the three main
talking points that I can recalltop my head is like no more mass
migration, um energy prices andum would be uh corruption,
(06:16):
right?
So on the face of it to normies,it's like most people like,
yeah, okay, but first of all,it's like define what you mean
by mass migration.
Oh no, I no, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (06:27):
So we did talk about this last night.
I remember talking about thisthis mass, this is prior.
We talked about the the thebullshit notion of mass
migration being at the at the isthe is pretty much the central
um issue between every singlething that's going wrong in the
country.
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
But you realize it's just yeah, it it you you scratch
the surface and it's just anyanyone that's not wise.
Yeah, like that's what we it'sit's not even clear if that's
even the case.
Like they they want to some farright politicians just want to
freeze to all migration for fiveyears and just so we can see you
know what happened.
It's just like it's any anygenuine critique or or proposal
(07:11):
for, you know, maybe maybe thethe skilled migration visa does
need a retweaking.
Like, is it is it is events areevent coordinators as essential
as say tradies?
I don't know.
Like it's it's there areprobably some genuine critiques
to discuss if you had, but allof that's just been railroaded
completely by the the nonsenseof these groups, and it's a
shame that um that yeah, thatthat they've probably done more
(07:35):
harm than than anything um interms of trying to like get
genuine reform.
Same with like energy prices andthings, it's like no one's happy
about them, but they also rubshoulders with a lot of these
mining oligarchs and and stuffand who who are responsible in
some part to the the increase inenergy.
Yeah.
Um they fund Sky News, theyfund, you know, who funds who
(07:58):
are you saying funds Sky News?
Well, well, there's there'sthere's um like Gina Reinhart,
etc., they they pump money intointo various media outlets and
you know, or they manipulate itin in certain ways.
Um I can imagine if thegovernment tried to put in
genuine reform with energycompanies, like the first thing
(08:20):
a lot of these like far-rightconservatives would be saying
is, oh, this is this isoverreach, this is etc.
So if they try to put a cap onon you know price per ton, etc.
then um or try to like clampdown on you know gain more more
taxes or less subsidies to a lotof these mining companies, they
they go batshit crazy as well.
So like they don't have anysolution in my opinion, I could
(08:43):
be fully wrong, but that'sthat's my take on it.
Um then we've got back tocorruption, which is like okay,
well, what what corruption?
I'm sure it exists.
SPEAKER_01 (08:51):
I'm sure, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (08:53):
What yeah, like what what corruption, who who
precisely are you talking about?
Like not just Elbow wore at-shirt on a plane, or you know,
like just like what corruptionwas.
SPEAKER_01 (09:02):
Oh, there was such a fuss about Elbow um wearing the
Joy Division t-shirt on theplane, right?
Yeah, yeah, and then yeah, thethe problem with the first so if
we can talk about so for our umoverseas listeners, um there was
um um across the nation, so inevery capital city, they had
organized a march, um, thesecollection of of conspiracy
(09:25):
theorists.
Um so I think in Sydney andMelbourne that they wildly,
wildly um over-exaggerated thenumbers, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:36):
Yeah, that's that's right.
We did uh we we touched on itpreviously around the the
underwhelming sort of turnout,but they they were somewhat
impressed with it.
What's worth calling out here aswell, and it it it even in my
own content it hasn't beenspoken about enough, but after
in the aftermath of of thatfirst um gathering in which was
(09:57):
back in August, um the theattack from NSN on camp
sovereignty, I think they andand for okay, so let's just
let's just unpack that.
SPEAKER_01 (10:08):
So um as as we know, um there was uh the neo-Nazis
joined the march, and that wasdenied, wasn't it, by people
like Beck Freedom?
SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
It was, but I mean it was so blatant, they were so
front and center of that march.
Um they were cheered, they'llclapped, they'll give in the
center stage that that it justwasn't even deniable.
I mean, they they had been evenclaiming from the outset that
they helped organise it behindthe scenes.
That had been denied, but thenduring the actual protest
(10:41):
itself, um the NSN were likehang on, what's the NS just
explain that?
Oh the sorry, the the NationalSocialist Network, which is
groups in in Australia.
So they I I wouldn't even saythey hijacked the optics.
I think they just they they werewelcomed, they were invited to
(11:02):
marched in front and um youknow, up front flags flying.
They were bold enough, a lot ofthem took their face coverings
off, and the leader of the NSNgroup, Thomas Sewell, took took
podium and was cheered andclapped.
And I mean, credit to some uh inin the groups.
I mean, there are there are somefootage if in in various cities
(11:23):
where um they had were booed,but we're talking like a a
fraction of of the crowd.
I mean, they're also equallycheered and and given centre
stage.
So 100%.
SPEAKER_01 (11:33):
Um and why do you think why do you think that um
that that is?
What do you think is theunderlying psychology of why I
mean you know, neo-Nazis is justis just a terrible, terrible
thing.
And I have read awful thingsabout um, you know, the
Holocaust never happened, and umit's disgusting.
(11:54):
It's really, really disgusting.
And you know, someone wastalking about Anne Franken going
as if so there's all this sortof tampering, this terrible
retelling of the narrative andtampering with history.
So why do you think that thecons I'll call them the
conspiracy theorists justbecause I don't know, just in
(12:15):
case the cookers doesn't quitehit the mark with people.
Why do you think they did sosort of alarmingly align
themselves with the neo-Nazisand also sort of stand by while
there was that attack on onthat?
What was the camp?
SPEAKER_00 (12:32):
It's camp sovereignty in in Melbourne.
SPEAKER_01 (12:35):
And what is that exactly?
SPEAKER_00 (12:37):
I I'm probably not the best place to talk about it
because I I'm not I'm notterribly familiar with camp
sovereignty.
Uh I I know it's there, but I Idon't know its overarching kind
of aims, etc.
It'd probably be really valuableto have someone from Camp
Sovereignty on at some point toto talk about sort of what what
what they do, uh, etc.
(12:58):
Um, I should know more about it.
Um, I admittedly don't, so I'mnot gonna um it'd be
disrespectful for me to speak onon what they do and and um But
it was pe it's peaceful, right?
SPEAKER_01 (13:09):
Oh that's right, that's right.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
It's it's it's an indigenous uh uh site of of of
significance.
Yeah, it it um you know there'svigils held and it's um it's
it's near the the shrine ofremembrance and the way that
it's been likened to me is thatit's it's it's like an
indigenous shrine to to s insome regards, and it's it also
you know it advocates for umindigenous sovereignty, um
(13:33):
indigenous um reconciliation,deter self-determination, etc.
So I've yeah, but it it's yeah,I'm I'm probably the um it's
it's probably doesn't do itjustice here in Panama.
I think talk about it, but yeah,yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:46):
We broadly understand that it is um it's an
indigenous peaceful camp, right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:53):
That's it.
It's not even politicallyaligned to to the to the best of
my knowledge.
Like it's it's it's it's apretty apolitical, it's I mean
it's it's it's not a um apolitically aligned necessarily
like um group or or or area.
Like it's uh it's everybody'swelcome there.
Like it's yeah, um, but it itwas yeah, it was blatantly
(14:15):
attacked by uh by who whoattacked it by the the the NSN.
So uh uh the the the members ofof the NSN afterwards, there's
this footage of it ishorrendous.
So um they all ran up in a lineand and started, you know, um
boot kicking women, and therewas a disabled elderly chap that
they were laying into, and theythey just yeah, just just weak
(14:38):
little boys, like just umunprovoked, unexpected, snuck
up, and and that's it.
So just just weak, weak littleboys.
SPEAKER_01 (14:45):
Uh yeah, weak little boys, that's right.
Looking looking for yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
Yeah, so thankfully Thomas was was arrested sort of
hours after that, I think thefollowing day, yeah, following
that assault.
And for for various othercharges, he's still believe he's
still in custody, which is whichis good, been denied bail
several times, and so the thegroup itself sort of splinter a
bit.
Yeah, they were splintered.
SPEAKER_01 (15:09):
Um one of his uh neo-Nazi um compatriots um was
also arrested.
And um his aunt, there was thisreally did you happen to hear
his aunt talking?
I don't know if it was the 730report.
Oh, I think I do now.
(15:30):
And she it was she gave thisreally eloquent sort of speech
about how devastated the familywere that he'd joined.
SPEAKER_00 (15:37):
Yeah.
Yeah, I do recall that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:40):
Yeah, and and how they just could not understand
how he'd gone in this direction.
SPEAKER_00 (15:46):
Um could I do a bit of a shout-out for the
listeners?
I'm not I don't know himdirectly and I'm I'm not
necessarily advocating, but II'd strongly recommend um uh Tom
Tanuki on YouTube.
He does this really uh TomTanuki, he's uh um he does some
really good uh um long form deepdives on the NSN and other
(16:08):
various groups, like he's beenbeen following them for years.
I'll send you some links.
SPEAKER_01 (16:13):
Yeah, we'll put the links in the show notes.
That's a good that's a greatidea.
SPEAKER_00 (16:17):
He goes into details about how the NSN is into like
grooming and and other variousthings, like in terms of how
they recruit and how they keepsort of they the grooming is a
part of trying to keep everyonewithin the circle and it it's
it's all pretty hideous.
Um the the leader himself waswas likely sort of groomed from
a young age into this sort ofthing, and it it's it's pretty
(16:40):
hideous, but it it's worth um ifyou're listening to the time or
even yourself any after this toum do do a deep dive on it.
It's it's pretty well wellstructured and put together.
Like he explains it far moreeloquently than I could.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
I've just finished reading um clown town, which
which is the story of AndrewTate.
Um yeah, and it's it'sbreathtaking the the the
philosophy that they areactually um championing is
(17:19):
astonishing in its absolutelyovert misogyny, and this
constant narrative that they'vegot going, Andrew Tate, and he
had millions and millions offollowers.
So all you need is a boy who'sfeeling marginalized, you know,
(17:41):
who doesn't have a good strongfriendship group who maybe has
been um, I don't know, rejectedby a girl to sort of join this
Andrew Tate-ish philosophicalgroup where, in their opinion,
men are the ones that are beingrobbed of their human rights,
and women have all the power.
(18:03):
And that is the very much theoverarching philosophy of Andrew
Tate, and his thing wassomething called the war room in
Romania, and um the the the menwould pay all this money to turn
up and fight in a ring.
I mean, it's just so sort ofprimitive, and the and the and
the ideology about women, andwhat they did was they would
(18:26):
groom the men, groom these boys,and then the boys would get
their girlfriends and then dothis terrible sort of love
bombing and then withdrawing oflove and love bombing again, and
then they would just turn them,they would just turn them into
these um um online um sex toys,and that's what they did.
It's unbelievable what they gotaway with, but that surely that
(18:51):
philosophy of men trying to findsome sort of masculinity through
this terrible lens, that mustalso infect the neo-Nazis, do
you think?
SPEAKER_00 (19:03):
I I think so.
It's a sense, yeah, and and uhin in one of the long form
videos that Tom Tanukki does,like he goes into detail about
how you know one of the issuesthat you know they recruit these
like young teenage boys um ininto their ranks and make them
feel a sense of community andpart of it.
But what naturally happens isthey get a bit older and they
get girlfriends, and you know,any normal person would say,
(19:26):
What are you fucking in thatgroup for?
And so they then you know theythey probably a lot of the guys
drop off because they're like,Oh, well, yeah, probably right.
Like as soon as they leave thethe the sort of enclosure of
that group, yeah.
And so what they then try to dois well, let's recruit young
women then to then be with theseyoung boys, and then it's a
(19:48):
perfectly kind of insular kindof circle, and then they'll have
kids and they're I'll raisetheir kids, you know, and so
it's this um it's a prettyhideous, and I'm sure other
other other um nasty stuff goeson, but it it's that that's the
theory that that's put forward.
Um it's it's pretty well.
Um I call it a theory, but butit's it's documented pretty well
(20:10):
in some of the on-form videos.
SPEAKER_01 (20:12):
So absolutely if you just look at the whole um trad
wife thing in America as well,it's sort of it's sort of and
for anybody who's unfamiliar,this is a Christian um, this is
a sort of a Christian rightideology where women are going
back to, you know, raising kids,being in the kitchen, being
(20:34):
subservient to their husbands,it's very American, dressing in
aprons, and um, you know, theymust never ever deny their
husband sex because it's hisright.
And um, they're even talkingabout, you know, why would they
need voting rights?
They just would vote the waytheir husband votes.
So this sort of terrible threadof ideology, and do you think
(20:56):
that runs through the cookers aswell?
What what's your opinion onthat?
SPEAKER_00 (21:00):
Oh, there's probably some desire for there's there's
always a desire to go back to adifferent time uh for for a lot
of the the cookers, you know, toto when things were were
supposedly great, but I justdon't think they ever were
looking at it from a hhistorical.
Things never work.
SPEAKER_01 (21:17):
No, no, no.
No, never, never, never never.
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
There is a nostalgia for that sort of thing, but I
think for a lot of people, it'sjust what I've got.
It's not all of them, um, but alot of them life hasn't worked
out the way they thought itwould.
And so they blame other peoplerather than being
self-reflecting.
I mean, there's there's like Ihave this like theory, and I've
I back during the lockdown dayswhen we've had a lot of time on
(21:41):
our hands, I I sort of thoughtthat every every villain, every
every every major sort of cookerpersonality had a almost like a
villain sort of origin story,like some sort of traumatic
thing that happened that madethem.
Yeah, and I I I had this sort ofsort of mental game that I'd I'd
play with a a friend of mine.
(22:01):
I was like, what do you thinkhappened to this person?
And and you do some deep dives,so I won't won't go into
specifics, but you know, therewas there was one chap who was
um uh like he's he's he's anobody now, like but but at one
point he had quite a bigfollowing to in during the
Melbourne lockdowns.
But looking at his like uh don'task me that, somehow a cousin of
his joined a and a legitimatelylike a cousin of his um joined a
(22:25):
crypolsine and we we startedchatting and he was saying like
back in like 2015, like hismother had had passed away of of
inoperable cancer, which wasreally sad, right?
Um and it was um you knowthere'd been some complaints in
the months leading up where thethe mother had gone to the
hospital and it was insistedthat she was fine and it just
wasn't picked up in for forwhatever various reasons.
(22:47):
I don't know what type of cancerit was or the the specifics,
right?
But after that, like he's thethe dad, the trauma of that that
sudden loss, um, the dad and thebrother had taken like a hard
turn right towards likeconspiracy nanobots, like it's
all it's all like you know, thissort of thing, right?
(23:10):
And so in five years in thatleading up to the pandemic, like
there was just this this thistrauma had had conditioned
basically like it was ahousehold of four.
Um, there was three, it was thefather, two brothers, and uh,
you know, um the father, um, youknow, there was this this chap
I'm talking about, his brotherand and and the sister.
Now the sister left home andjust got on with her life, but
(23:32):
the the three of them still inthat household had just become
completely cooked.
And so that's this this chap wastelling me that, and so that was
quite verifiable.
And it's like, okay, it's a sadsituation.
I kind of that that's theirorigin story.
I'm not making fun of it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:48):
Um no, not at all.
But it's interesting their ownyeah, and I think that's an
important thing to note that um,you know, if you're you're way
less likely to be pulled into uhsome sort of deeply tangled
conspiracy theory if you comefrom a safe, supported, um, you
know, sort of reasonablyfunctional family that probably
(24:11):
just listens to the mainstreammedia.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Like other times it's it'smarriage breakdowns, it's you
know, it's like, oh, you know,if only you know, it's this
feminism crap, which is why shedoesn't put up with my nonsense.
You know, it's sort of likerather than self-reflection,
like, you know, I like to thinkthat if my wife sort of said,
hey, not pulling your weight, orI'm not not content, I'd I'd
(24:34):
self-reflect and think, whatcould I do better?
rather than going down theAndrew Tape.
SPEAKER_01 (24:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:41):
Oh, it's that darn feminism, you know, having she's
having independent thoughtsagain, you know.
That's yeah, yeah.
How dare you know?
I'm I'm broadly generalizing,but I I think it's a combination
of those like traumatic thingshappen to people.
Um you know, uh life doesn'twork out the way it's supposed
to, which is can be traumatic initself, um, rather than
self-reflecting, which ispainful.
(25:02):
It's just easy to blame, youknow.
Um absolutely to blame thesystem.
Chemtrails or yeah, the pilot30,000 feet up spraying, and
that's you know, chemtrails.
SPEAKER_01 (25:12):
Chemtrails, the chemtrails that have been going
nuts lately.
And there's another woman ononline, I won't say her name.
Yeah, um, but she is an advocateof um washing herself and
drinking aged urine, which iswhich is a favorite among some
of the cookers.
I don't get it, but it's very,very well documented.
(25:35):
A lot of them consume aged urineand washing it and and fix their
pets.
I I don't know what they do, Idon't want to think too much
about it, but um yeah, she hasshe sort of lives this sort of
itinerant life, washing herselfin her urine, and she's lost
control of her children, theyhave been removed from her.
(25:56):
Um, and so she of course goes tocourt and stands there, you
know, talking about her agedurine and why can't she have the
children back, blaming thesystem, like blaming the system
that she's not allowed access?
Well, you know, she lookscompletely mad, and probably
(26:18):
what she needs is to have mentalhealth support, right?
Yeah, she got it like on thescene or a partner or sports
supporting or she's on her own,her partner has her children,
and of course, she's devastatedand furious about not having
access.
Well, why would you allow yourchildren to have access to it to
cook to somebody who'scompletely mad?
But instead of her getting thepsychological support, you know,
(26:41):
that she needs, um, she's sortof wandered into these deeply
strange theories about urine andand chemtrails and and big
pharma, and of course, she'slost.
It's a sense of control as well.
SPEAKER_00 (26:58):
Yeah, it is it is she can't control anything else,
but she can control piss, youknow, and so that's that's the
the golden fountain or whatevershe whatever they call it.
SPEAKER_01 (27:09):
It's really common, as is um that's it, as is people
using black salve to fix theirskin cancers or whatever, which
is this corrosive substance.
And there's there's been arecent legal court case around
um the woman, I'm not going touse any names, who who was
selling it.
And so they just they just youknow move somewhere else and
(27:31):
call it something else and keepselling it.
And people end up with you knowan inch deep cavity in their
face, but they're like, no, no,it really works because it's not
big pharma, it's really mad.
It's really mad.
SPEAKER_00 (27:42):
And my name, my wait till my naysaying kids see the
it being cured, and it's almostlike again, it's like for a lot
of these older people, it's asense of losing control.
The kids now are adults who areprobably looking after them to
some extent, or at least youknow, and saying, Mom, you
shouldn't be using that.
And it's um and it's it's it'shard for them to sort of like to
(28:04):
to come to terms with thatreality.
So they are um they're secretlygoing to use this elixir or
whatever it is to kill them.
SPEAKER_01 (28:13):
It's called black salve, it's it's terrible.
SPEAKER_00 (28:16):
It's it's yeah, I've read a few of those posts
recently, and yeah, that one ofthem said that using it on a a
melanoma, quite an advancedmelanoma on their hands.
Great.
They're like, my my naysayingdaughter, you know, wait till
she sees how good this isworking and and stuff.
And it almost just seemedthey'll just use it out of
defiance just to sort of showtheir kids that they they still
knew better.
SPEAKER_01 (28:37):
And I wonder if there is some, you know, I
wonder how much defiance playsinto this whole oh hugely it
does.
SPEAKER_00 (28:45):
Yeah, the whole I I think massively it does.
SPEAKER_01 (28:47):
I mean, I think that's a very interesting um
discussion about some of thepsychological issues that
underpin these belief systems.
And I just I just wish we asdebunkers and skeptics had more
influence over some of theseideologies because I see young
people being infected with them,and it really, really worries
(29:09):
me.
And it must it must worry you aswell.
You have children.
SPEAKER_00 (29:12):
Oh, it does, yeah.
Young, young children, youngdaughters, and um it, you know,
um, yeah, like that's that's it.
Like my daughters have to growup, and um yeah, my daughters
have to grow up in the worldwith these, so yeah.
Yeah with these sort of umpeople.
SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
So be ho be hopeful because my children are adults
now, and um neither of them havea conspiracy thinking bone in
their body, they're highlyskeptical.
So living in the house with you,I'm feeling pretty confident
your daughters are going to beokay.
SPEAKER_00 (29:44):
I think so.
Yeah, thank you.
Appreciate that.
SPEAKER_01 (29:46):
Um, so thanks for that, listeners.
Um, please tune in um for ournext episode where Snake and I
talk about the Cooker Wars.
Thanks for tuning in to WhySmart Women with me, Annie
McCubbin.
I hope today's episode hasignited your curiosity and left
(30:10):
you feeling inspired by myanti-motivational style.
Join me next time as we continueto unravel the fascinating
layers of our brains and developways to sort out the fact from
the fiction and the over 6,000thoughts we have in the course
of every day.
Remember, intelligence isn'tenough.
You can be as smart as paint,but it's not just about what you
(30:33):
know, it's about how you think.
And in all this talk of whetheror not you can trust your gut,
if you ever feel unsafe, whetherit's in the street, at work, car
park, in a bar, or in your ownhome, please, please respect
that gut feeling.
Staying safe needs to be ourprimary objective.
(30:53):
We can build better lives, butwe have to stay safe to do that.
And don't forget to subscribe,rate, and review the podcast and
share it with your fellow smartwomen and allies.
Together we're hopefullyreshaping the narrative around
women and making betterdecisions.
So until next time, stay sharp,stay savvy, and keep your
(31:14):
critical thinking hat shiny.
This is Annie McCubbin signingoff from Why Smart Women.
See you later.
This episode was produced byHarrison Hess.
It was executive produced andwritten by me, Annie McCubbin.
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