The Heartbeat of Australia: Sam Murray on Caring for Country

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Sam Murray, CEO of the Indigenous Desert Alliance, brings a powerful blend of desert wisdom and modern leadership to her role in protecting one-third of Australia's landscape. As a Yilka/Wongutha/Nyoongar woman who grew up in Cosmo Newberry, Sam's connection to country runs deep, informing every aspect of her work supporting ranger groups across 2.7 million square kilometres of arid lands.

What makes Sam's leadership journey fascinating is how she draws strength from her experience as a single mother raising two independent daughters. The decision-making capabilities she developed as a parent have translated directly into her ability to lead a complex organization. Yet she still brings that nurturing "desert mum" energy to her team, balancing care with the broader perspective required of a CEO.

Throughout our conversation, Sam highlights the critical environmental work being done in Australia's desert regions. Rangers are protecting unique wildlife, such as the elusive marsupial mole and the rare night parrot, while battling invasive species and adapting to increasingly harsh climate impacts. What becomes clear is the profound irony that desert communities face the most severe consequences of climate change despite contributing minimally to its causes.

Perhaps most inspiring is Sam's philosophy on environmental stewardship. Rather than becoming paralyzed by overwhelming challenges, she advocates for focused, purposeful action on what's within our control. "Desert mob are out there every day," she explains, tackling one small area at a time with unwavering commitment. This approach offers wisdom for anyone feeling helpless about environmental protection – focus on what you can do, celebrate small wins, and keep moving forward.

Sam also extends a beautiful invitation to non-Indigenous people seeking deeper connection with country. By slowing down to notice nature even in urban settings, learning about traditional owners, and developing relationships with specific places, anyone can begin to understand the profound connection Aboriginal people maintain with their country.

Ready to support Indigenous-led conservation? Learn more about the crucial work of desert rangers and find ways to contribute to protecting Australia's heart and soul – the magnificent desert landscapes that hold ancient knowledge and extraordinary biodiversity.

Ember Connect Live is a free membership community for Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander women. It’s a living and breathing meeting place where we can gather, share stories and experiences, learn, and grow.

Ember Connect Live also provides another space where non-Indigenous women (our Allies), can learn, grow and be part of meaningful conversations.

Our platform is unique because we provide separate spaces for Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander women and non-Indigenous women to connect and communicate but importantly, we provide a THIRD space where we can all learn and grow together.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ember Connect acknowledges all Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islandertraditional custodians of
country and recognises theircontinuing connection to land,
waterways, culture and community.
We pay our respects to Elders,past and present, their wisdom
and knowledge that guides ourjourneys through life.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hi, I'm Narelle Henry .
I'm a Noongar woman living andworking over here on Noongar
Country.
Today's guest is someone whobrings a rare and powerful mix
of leadership and laughter anddeep integrity and passion to
every space she enters.
Sam Murray is one of thosepeople who doesn't just do

(00:49):
remarkable work, she carries itwith grace, with purpose and the
funniest sense of humour.
Now, every time Sam speaks Ilearn something new, not just
about the world, but how to showup for it in my little patch.
She's generous with herknowledge, she's grounded in who
she is and she really leadswith a quiet strength that pulls
people together in the bestkind of way.

(01:11):
Her passion's contagious, herhumility is completely disarming
and her ability to tell a yarnand a story is deadly so.
Whether she's making you laughtill you cry or she's reflecting
with some fierce honesty, samholds it all with care, and I
can't tell you you're going tolove Sam as much as I do after
you have a yarn with you.
So here is the one.

(01:33):
And'm Sam Murray.

Speaker 4 (01:50):
I'm a Yolka Wangathalini person.
I am from the Great VictorianDesert.
Cosmo Nuri community is mycountry, and I'm also the CEO of
Indigenous Desert Alliance.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
G'day.
I'm Luke.
I'm the Communications Managerat the Indigenous Desert
Alliance.
Sam, I first met you last yearand you've been dodging me for a
while, but I finally got a holdof you this year.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
I'm Luke.
I'm the Communications Managerat the Indigenous Desert
Alliance.
Sam, I first met you last yearand you've been dodging me for a
while, but I finally got a holdof you this year in Melbourne
thanks to BHP, and now we'vemanaged to capture you and you
cannot escape the podcast.
I think you should be doing oneyourself every month, but thank
you for joining us, thanks.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
Sam, I'm very excited , also very nervous.
This is actually my firstpodcast in my life, surprisingly
, so I'm really happy to be hereand have a good yarn.
And I know I was dodging youlast year to come and have a
yarn and this year I couldn'tdodge you, so I thought I'd
better come along and have ayarn up.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Tell us about moving into the CEO space of the
Indigenous Desert Alliance.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
Yeah, this week has been the full year as CEO, after
what I'd call a corporate andcultural apprenticeship for a
few years, so I'm really happyto be here.
I've brought my mullin, mylittle brother, who's also a
commerce manager he does have ajob at IDA as well to come along
and have a bit of a yarn,because he's part of my journey

(03:04):
for how I've been able to getstronger at talking up as well.
He seems always dodging me.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
He's moving away from me.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
He's done well to get a hint.
So Luke's been trying to getyou to do this for a while,
right For a long time.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
Yes, his KPI, I think , for himself is getting me on
TV On the project, on theproject.
But they shut now, so we've gotto find somebody else off the
hook.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, maybe you could just create your own, because I
think you can do your own show,purely because, like, I think
you're an amazing communicator.
Watching you again in Melbournecommunicate not just about the
Desert Alliance, but yourselfand what your values are, I was
sitting back and I'm always thatperson that's like, oh my God,
I just love you and I admire youso much.
Oh, thank you.

Speaker 4 (03:45):
That's very kind.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, you're amazing.
So tell us about the last yearin terms of that journey, moving
into the CEO role.

Speaker 4 (03:53):
Yeah, it was a lot of learning.
Like you know, there were somehard times, some high times and
good times.
A lot of learning about myselftimes, a lot of learning about
myself.
I think I really didn't realisehow much of being, you know, a

(04:14):
black Aboriginal mum, single mumI'm a single mum of two girls
how much that I'd actually rollinto my job.
I knew I'd be a strong, youknow driver of who I am, but
it's amazing how I've justfolded into how I raised my two
girls in a way, so I think thattook me by surprise.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
How much so, yeah, and I'm sure they look at you
with admiration as well.
Well, I don't know about that.

Speaker 4 (04:33):
They're also smartasses like me and
incredibly sarcastic, and I justsaid to Luke, when I was coming
along, my youngest one she'sthe worst, extremely street
smart and an old soul.
She's like what are you goingto talk about?
They're probably sick of youtalking about desert, so they
don't think I'm actuallyanything too amazing.
They're used to me in a way, sothey were just yeah, they're

(04:55):
always proud in a way, butenough to be very cheeky and
keep me in my toes, which isgood.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Well, this suburban mongar wants to know more about
the desert so you can tell yourgirls that, yeah.
So I'm always interested in thelearning journey for women and
I just can't believe you're asingle mum Like, firstly, you're
a superhero, but to now be aCEO and in your first year,
what's been the biggest lesson?

Speaker 4 (05:18):
I think the biggest lesson was it's funny when there
were people outside of mymentor, the previous CEO, who
made the space for me.
There's a lot of that yarngoing around that I heard from
people saying like you've got tobe prepared for it's lonely at
the top and there's quite a lotof stereotype advice that you

(05:38):
get given in this role and a lotof it's you know.
Quite true, but I actuallyrealised a lot of that actually
didn't impact me because being asingle mum for a very long time
and raising my girls, beingalone and making those tough
decisions that people say peoplecan't do in that role, I
actually find that quiterelatively easy because as a
single mum with two girls, youknow your two most precious

(06:01):
things in the world makingdecisions and being aligned in
those decisions are somethingI'm very comfortable as a single
parent.
So you know a lot of mums areout there.
That's something that you know.
They have to make the calls.
They can't talk to someone elseto kind of make those calls.
So that was actually easy forme in a way Not easy, still hard
to do but it wasn't something Ihad to really learn.

(06:23):
I think the I care too much,like all mums.
You know a bit of a desert mumcan grow around with love to the
team and all that and Irecognise that I would burn
myself out if I cared.
You know too much as much inthe depth that I have and in
some way recognising how thatcould take a lot of my energy.

(06:46):
And as a CEO you do have tolook at the bigger picture above
, still care and support yourteam.
But I found that I would beburnt out if I was to give that
real mum focus and energy onevery single of her 30-odd staff
.
So learning how to distance ina way but keep that heart was
really something I had tobalance and I think probably it

(07:08):
might take me the rest of mycareer to get that balance right
.
Things like I'm pretty good atlearning, I think I wouldn't be
where I am now.
Coming from Closmer andLaverton, you know a long way
and being where I am now youknow and I'm very privileged to

(07:29):
be where I am now you know andI'm very privileged to be where
I am.
That's what I am.
But learning, I think that'ssomething that really I'm glad
that I know how to learn welland the responsibility I really
didn't realise I was preparedfor the responsibility but the
overwhelming responsibility formy desert mob and realising when
I've gone to places andtravelled around overseas and
around Australia, a lot of timesI'm the only woman in the room
as a CEO.
A lot of times I'm the onlyAboriginal person in the room.

(07:50):
A lot of times I'm the only onethat's under 50 in the room and
the only one who isn't a doctoror I've never went to
university.
I did my education throughdistance education.
Before the internet, I used toget books sent out from
Leaderville so the overwhelmingresponsibility actually felt
like it could consume me becauseI was so invested.

(08:12):
It's my mob and having tobalance.
That has been a bit of alearning thing.
I think it will always be, tobe honest.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
It's enormous responsibility, one you're
responsible for, obviously,family, being a single mum,
having to make all the decisions, and then the buck stopping
with you as a CEO.
Sometimes I feel like I getdecision fatigue.
Can someone just decide what todo for dinner?
Yeah, because I can't do it.
Do you ever get that?

Speaker 4 (08:39):
way I'm saying.
That's why I've trained my kidsto be chefs, because that's one
decision I'm trying to be smartin, I'm trying to make it more
efficient.
But I actually have abackground of teaching chefs how
to cook in a taff in Calgaryfor about seven years.
So I'm in another lifetime.
I would have loved to have beena chef, but I only did that for
seven years.
So I've trained my girls up.

(09:00):
So when I get in I'm just goingto make sure they've got the
ingredients.
So I'm glad I've done thoselessons to them too, because
when I come home they're makinga feed for me.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
So and that's a good metaphor too.
It's like you're trying to makesure that you know in
metaphorically too, for them tosucceed.
You're like just making surethey've got all the ingredients.

Speaker 4 (09:17):
That's right.
They can just get whatever theywant get the cheese out and the
eggs, so yeah, I'm glad I didthat.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
So how do you, do you get to take time for yourself
at all?
I've raised pretty independentgirls I used to.

Speaker 4 (09:30):
I had an intimate and they went to come to pick us up
from the train and I've got a16 year old and an 11 year old
and they came to the train toget, pick us up and put us in
the car.
Both the girls had a backpackeach.
I had my own backpack.
I taught my girls I kind ofknew that, being an Aboriginal
mum and I've got two Aboriginalgirls in the world that the best

(09:51):
thing I could do was, you know,make them strongly independent
and to accept help and actuallyhelp but be independent.
So they've been raised toliterally, physically and
spiritually, carry their ownbags.
So that's from like you, youknow, and I've said that to luke
when he had his baby going like, make sure your kids carry
their own stuff when you gofairs or events or carmers,

(10:14):
because they'll, they'll holdwhat they need, was one of the
best advice I got when I wasyounger.
So them kids will carry whatthey need.
So, bella and Sophie, they'revery independent.
But I've also raised them notto be and they ask questions and
always ask for help.
When you don't know, you knowand then others saying like if

(10:34):
you don't ask questions, youdon't know the answers, or I
think they say you need to dosomething with the quote.
So I'm always asking questions.
I think there's a strength inthat always telling people that
I don't want to do it now.
So the girls they're veryindependent.
So a lot of the times they'restanding a different way away
from hanging out with them a bittoo.
Now they're 16, now I'm 11.
They're like you're right, mum.
So I've had to raise them likethat because I knew I couldn't

(10:56):
go out in the world, whatever Ichose to do and earn a living,
be a role model for them, fellas, because I'm big about you know
, being that you can't see thatthey had to be some form of
independence.
The three of us couldn'tsurvive in a way.
So it came out of, probably youknow, a self-defence mechanism
of being a mum, a single mum,but it's worked really well out,

(11:19):
yeah, so I'm very lucky.
The girls are very independent,capable individuals.
I think they can thrive farbetter than me now.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
That's so good and that's really the goal, isn't it
, of being a parent is to raiseyour kids so that they don't
need you, even though it's kindof like I don't need you anymore
.

Speaker 4 (11:35):
People say that, but it's hard, that's the problem,
but that's the best thing I cando for them.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean you're leading analliance Like you threw out some
stats this year and just thedistance that you cover, the
amount of ranges you have.
Tell us more about that.
Tell us how big the space isthat you look after so like
Desert Motors.

Speaker 4 (11:59):
We say desert as a whole but there's so many
different areas in a differentcountry but you know, know it
covers such a big part ofaustralia and everyone who is
out there is working communityand you know they came for their
own country and collectively weall have cultural connections
across that space.
So when we say desert it covers,you know, our dissimilar areas

(12:21):
of australia, which is themiddle of australia, but also as
a cultural connection that youknow, as desert people we're
very much connected.
So everyone in a way is lookingafter their own country and
community and as rangers doingtheir own work.
But out in the desert we reallyknow that we, you know we
respect each other's boundariesbut we also share work with each

(12:41):
other.
There's ranger exchanges and wejust know that to connect each
other and collaborate it justmakes things you know, best
practice in a way, culturallyand environmentally.
So it's a big patch.
We say I don't know the statsoff the top of my head again,
but I did write it down.
I don't know if Luke knows howmuch of the space we have in
terms of desert what we'd cover.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah, I think it's roughly 2.7 million square
kilometres.
Yeah, so one third of thecontinent is the arid area of
the Australian.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
And how many people in total are looking after that
amount of space?

Speaker 3 (13:17):
I think we're trying to do the sums.
There's about 0.01% of theAustralian population living and
working in a desert country.

Speaker 4 (13:25):
And we don't employ rangers directly.
We support the ranger teams andorganisations.
So there's quite a lot ofmembers out there.
We have 28 members now andthat's a mixture of big land
councils that have 14 teams, twosort of ranger teams in that
patch, and our role as IDA isreally big about facilitating

(13:46):
them to do it the way they want,connecting them up,
collaborating, and we have, youknow, colleges and fire
specialists to go out andsupport them in their country.
So we really just want to be arep or a wraparound organization
support.
But that's a big patch and youknow there's a lot of them out
there working really, reallyhard and really pushed, like I

(14:08):
said, you know, in Melbournethat's only a little bit of
people out there working aftercountry and we do it because
it's a traditional country, butso much more benefit for the
rest of Australia andinternationally and I think
that's what we're reallypassionate about, because it
gets forgotten that work thatthey're doing.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
And do those teams and communities get a chance to
share that knowledge withmainstream Australia?
I know that we're sharing theknowledge and practice between
each other and the fact thatit's so beneficial for everybody
.
Do you get chances to do that?

Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yeah, we get invited quite a lot, don't we, luke?
In terms of supporting Rangersof Galilee, we were always so
proud to tell the Yarns.
Like you put a ranger on astage, they'll talk about their
country and how proud they are.
They're so proud of it.
But these are actually workingpeople too.
Like they're off country,travelling thousands of
kilometres to go and tell a yarnin some conference or in

(14:59):
government or something.
They're actually stepping outof work, you know.
So there's no glory seekingwith Desert Rangers.
They go into it because they'reproud of their work.
They want to highlight whatwe're doing.
You know they want to advocatefor their people.
Yeah, so there's not a lot ofopportunities because we're out
in the country, but anyopportunity we can, whenever

(15:21):
we're invited or we try andcreate opportunities where they
can go and talk.
If they don't talk, then that'ssomething like look who needs a
comms and IDAs.
Tell that story, share thestory.
What do you want us to tell theworld?
But we have to, because peoplewon't know what we're doing.
Then what range is?

Speaker 3 (15:36):
doing it there, my friend, our founding chair of
the IDA.
She's always said we need toput the desert on the map.
Unfortunately, the desert doesget forgotten sometimes.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
So having seen rangers out there telling the
story, getting Australia ingeneral to think about the heart
of Australia yeah, absolutelyLike when I listen to you, I
just am intrigued by not justthe country and the beauty, the

(16:09):
mob living out there and theamount of knowledge that has
been passed down but now isutilised just on an everyday way
.
And so you talked about I don'thave a degree and all of those
things, but I think, comparing,that in mainstream people have
degrees and all of those thingsand if you've got that piece of
paper that means somethingdifferent to the mainstream
world.
But for us the experience oncountry and in community, and
that knowledge and culture isprobably the most important and

(16:30):
most valuable thing that you canhave.
So talk a little bit about that.
A hundred percent.

Speaker 4 (16:35):
And you know I've never been to university.
You know I grew up most of mylife in Laverton and Cosmo and
when I moved to Perth, probablyeight years ago, it was the
biggest town I ever lived in inmy life, so I had to get used to
freeways and traffic jams andstuff.
I've found there is a pressurefrom probably mainstream and

(16:59):
even from other mob as well, tohave an academic degree.
And I know, know I don't, andit's a bit of a, you know,
stubbornness about me as well.
It was like you know, whyshould I?
I think that you know I shouldbe following whatever dreams I
want, you know, and we needpeople who are able to really
work in that world and reallystrong academic leaders.
In that I'm just really busy,too busy to probably even think

(17:22):
about starting a degree.
But I do think in mainstreamAustralia there's still a big
pressure about how many degreesyou have.
I've not been invited to thingsor groups or committees based
on the fact that I don't have adegree or that I never went to a
year 12 schooling.
I mean that's quite, quite sad,you know, in terms of my role

(17:43):
as a CEO, to still have doorsclosed for me in all that I've
achieved based on not being ableto get to university and have a
degree.
So I think that's somethingthat's still a glass shield,
it's something that we need tokind of look at in terms of what
it means to be considered, Isuppose, the word academic or
the word highly educated, ormaybe having a look at what that

(18:08):
actually means in terms ofqualifications.
But that still is a barrierthat I face in my world right
now.
You're in community, maybe justin mainstream, oh, never in
community.
You know I'm going back toCosmo next week.
My mob, me and the girl jump inthe car driving 11 hours out to
a community and I'll be sittingaround that fire yawning up
with my mob.

(18:28):
It doesn't matter anything thatI'm a CEO.
I'm sitting on the ground withmy people.
They won't matter if I've got adouble degree or not, but it
does matter when you're in agovernment sitting, when you're
in a university or when you'rein a conference or something
that that's such a big, bigthing massively.
And I've struggled with that,to be honest.

(18:49):
But I know what my self-worthis and my value and I just think
we just have to challenge whatthat means.
And you know utmost respect forthe time it takes for our people
to get those degrees.
It's hard and the sacrificethey have to do and that's the
common thing at all.
That's beautiful.
We need that knowledge.
You know it's all forms ofknowledge.

(19:09):
My only thing is making surethat not having that isn't a
barrier for us to be around thetable and we all need different
types of knowledge around thetable.
All need different types ofknowledge around the table.
I'm a big person that you knowmy kind of thing about my
lifetime goal is it's gettingdiversity around the table for

(19:29):
our people, that we, you know wehave the person that doesn't
speak English, you know at thetable that we have an old fella
who's at the table, we have ayoung man at the table, that we
have, you know, remote, regional, urban, country, aboriginal
people around the table.
That we have differentschooling, that we have
different culturalunderstandings and I think when
that happens, that would begreat, when that diversity

(19:52):
happens, because I think it's agreat mix of who we are as
Australia.
But sometimes it's hard to getto the table People like me and
the people that I work with andsupport and connect.
I'm really a remote mobespecially desert mob and
sometimes I say, well, we shouldbe taking the table out there
to desert mob, you know howabout within the middle of
Australia and bring everybody in.
So that's a lifelong goal forme, you know, to kind of get

(20:16):
that diversity and I've alwaysbeen an advocate for desert
people because of that, not onlybecause we have really
important things to add to thetable, but because you know it
adds to the richness of us aspeople in Australia, and I think
that can be missed when desertmob are at the table.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
And you do write with the idea of two of the board
meetings happening in differentlocations and the next one, I
think, will be in Elm Springs.

Speaker 4 (20:41):
That's right.
And then all of a sudden, youknow the CEO will go up and zoom
from that person's communityoffice.
You know the company secretary,she wants to go to Alice
Springs and go to a communityand sit with someone.
So I just it's.
I really like changing the rulea little bit and balancing it a
little bit.
Still, you know what we need todo, but trying to make it less

(21:02):
work on the mob on the ground iswhat I'm trying to do, you know
.
So that requires a bit morethinking.
You know there's times evenLuke and I have said you know
how do we can get this story outin a way, or collect this yarn
in a way that has less impactfor the people on the ground but
gets across the message that weknow needs to get out
externally, but without the mobon the ground changing who they

(21:22):
are.
I mean, that requires somethinking out and, you know, some
planning.
I know I enjoy, and Luke enjoys, that aspect, but that's
something I really love about myjob.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, what are some of the things you find in terms
of challenges of differentcommunities and ranger teams out
on country?
What are the biggest challengesthat you're trying to problem
solve or facilitate solutionsfor Funding?

Speaker 4 (21:47):
and advocacy the majority of the desert ranger
teams and organisations outthere.
Things like philanthropy don'treach out sometimes as far there
.
There's not a lot of mining inthe middle of different parts of
the desert.
You know there's differentbusiness opportunities but in
some areas that capability ofdoing arts isn't going to cover

(22:08):
a complete ranger team.
So most of those groups arecompletely dependent on funding
from government.
So that puts them in a powerdynamic that sometimes you know
it's not equal for them.
So we're always promoting forthat, for funding for those
groups to go out there and fundthe work that they're doing and
advocacy things like climateresilience and climate

(22:30):
adaptation.
A lot of times those decisionsand policies and funding made
towards climate resilience aredone by people who aren't
actually impacted by climate andso we always promote that.
Desert Marble are some of themost impacted people in the
world in terms of climatechanges but we don't know that

(22:50):
that's happening and thetemperatures and the hard life
and you know the feral animalsand the threatened species being
, you know, impacted.
We all know the story about theGreat Barrier Reef.
You know I knew that in Cosmo,you know, like this is me, the
nearest ocean was like eighthours one direction, and I was
stressing out about GreatBarrier Reef going.
We're going to do somethingabout that coral.

(23:12):
You know, we don't quite knowwhat it is, but we've got to
look after it.
So that's great advertising,you know.
But people don't know thatdesert mob are living in harder
and harder conditions than theyhave and it's getting worse and,
ironically, because of thingsthat they're not doing.
You know all that impacts bycity and damages impacts their
day-to-day life in terms ofliving in a community and then

(23:33):
working in a community, and we,as as a red rabbit people know
we need to keep our mob oncountry wherever it is, so the
harder it is to live out there.
So, yeah, funding and advocacy.
You need to have the peoplearound the table whose lives are
actually impacted by climatechange at the table and helping
to make those live time.
You know, real suggestionsabout what's happening.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
Are there any plant species or animal species that
rangers are trying really hardto either rejuvenate or sustain
that have a greater impact onAustralia as a whole?

Speaker 4 (24:06):
I think Luke's got his favourite little marsupial.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
The marsupial are really little animals, nice
creatures.
They're nice and they swimthrough the sand dunes.
What yes.
It's a golden little creature.
Yeah, quite amazing.
Every time a ranger captures aphoto of a marsupial needle, it
goes viral.
Yeah, we were talking to theBBC and the New York Times last

(24:32):
year and the ranger found one ofthese critters.
Yeah, some of the most iconicanimals in the world.
Obviously, the booby, everyoneknows great doesn't skink.
The night parrot, which is areally immersive creature.
A lot of the amazing creaturesin the desert and the
underground.
You know they're burning, theylive, they come out at night

(24:53):
time, sort of like an ocean.
You know, from from abovedoesn't look like much is going
on, but when you look a bitcloser and look underneath
there's so much going on.
The guy does it skiingsometimes because it's like all
of them, because they have acommunal toilet and they do put
all their droppings in one spotand they leave as a family
throughout their life.
Yeah, like he's a tiny littlelizard.

(25:16):
I guess he put up my hand andsaid I was one of those white
fellas that didn't know too muchabout the desert, say like five
, ten years ago, did a few tripswith rangers and just my whole
world was turned upside down.
I think the desert is the mostbeautiful place on the planet.

(25:37):
There's trees, there's water,there's just beautiful
wildflowers, and when you takethe time to listen and look
around, you know Indigenousrangers, elders, people that
have lived there for generations.
They show you things and helpyou.
See it the way they do Again,it just brings another layer of
appreciation for an Indigenousman like myself.

(26:02):
But, yeah, like I, lot ofscience with climate change
there are just threats,unfortunately.
So we did the science a whileago.
I think it was about 70threatened species, probably
much more that we don't know of.
One of the biggest threatsthere was from feral cats,
unfortunately.
So we were dealing with feralcats camels, cats, foxes and

(26:24):
then we're also dealing with thewaves, that buffelgrass, which
is sort of, unfortunately, achoking kind of wave that just
kind of chokes out all the otherplanet's animals.
So, yeah, we're dealing withsome big stuff out there, but,
yeah, rangers are out thereevery day doing what they can.
Flies are the biggest tools wehave to manage the desert.

(26:44):
So you know, seeing theserangers all out there burning
fire in a good way, the desert'sgoing to be looked after and
healthy and well, that's why I'mstill here.
So I really believe in that.
I'm a huge advocate for thedesert.
I'm still here, so I reallybelieve in that.
I'm a huge advocate for thedesert.
A lot of people fly into Oru,which is important.
It's a beautiful cultural place, but it's a big place.

(27:15):
The desert, so many places youcan go and communities you can
meet and things you can do.

Speaker 4 (27:21):
I remember saying, even when I was talking to
someone the other day over thephone and we were talking about
how even in Australia we don'ttravel around Australia.
You know like you can talk toanyone.
You know my boy even known manyof these people going.
Oh, you know where have youtravelled?
And usually it sounds a littlebit like you know Bali England
went around to, you knowSwitzerland and Melbourne, but

(27:41):
there's nothing else in betweenthat and I think that's
something that we, you knowyou've got to encourage that
there's a beautiful country, thetourism part for Australia,
like people come here because itis amazing and we've got a
beautiful country and there's abeautiful mob out there and you
know, everywhere, not justdesert but everywhere.
And I think you knowencouraging the travelling

(28:01):
around Australia helps to movethat around.
You know, and I think about thebilby.
I remember the first time thebilby came out for Easter time,
even like kids, community kidswere like, oh, what's this
animal going to do?
They were going for a rabbitand so many kids had never seen
a rabbit before.
But it's come into theAustralian.
You know consciousness aboutthis bilby.

(28:23):
Now there's funds on it and I'mthinking well, maybe if we get
the night power or that littlecrazy little marsupial model you
know that's cruising around inthe ocean, that sounds like a
little comic book character.
So I think, just as it becomesmore mainstream, people will be
more interested and understand abit more about it.
But there's so many cool thingsout there, so, yeah, sometimes
it can be seen as not manypeople out there and not a lot
of good things.
It's like this flat Sahara, butcompletely different to that

(28:46):
yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
see, I grew up in the suburbs.
So you talk about you being awhite fella who knew nothing
about the desert.
Well, I'm a black woman whoknows nothing about the desert.
Even just the time I spent outthere, I got to just hang out
working in the back room.

Speaker 4 (29:04):
So I loved it.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
I loved it enough to.
I know that we had the Thomasesover the back fence so we used
to go out.
Yeah, there's one more beinghere Kangaroo hunting every
Friday night.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, I had to stay back and do dampers with mum,
but I wanted to be out with dadon the ute.
I love that dampers with mum,but I always wanted to be out
with dad on the year.

Speaker 4 (29:25):
Yeah, but that I think like I don't have a very
good memory, but, um, that'slike one of the only things that
I can remember and it's becauseI think it's because it was so
special and the feeling probably, you know, like the feeling of
going out on country and youknow I'm counting down the
seconds, blatantly telling theteam you know I'm gone, cosmo,
no, now you know, unless thisoffice is burning down, then
you're welcome to send a messageto the community office.
With that reception.

(29:45):
They can ring me on my phone,but I'll be like no, put a
message in the community officeif I've got to come back.
But that's the thing that we'rereally big on and something
that Luke and I have alwaystalked about for a couple of
years is making sure we've gotrangers who are working really
hard and the least we can do isadvocate and tell the story
really well for desert mobbing.
Make sure if they want to sayit, you know you can make the

(30:07):
space for them, but there's onlya little bit of us mob, desert
mob for a lot of countries.
So I'm a big believer that if weget more advocates and people
that talk about the desert likeyou're going to go home and talk
to your girls about and to yourpartner about this little
animal.
Talk to your girls about and toyour partner about this little
animal and you might be Googlingwith your kids on the land
share but that creates anotheradvocate for the desert.

(30:28):
So it's like not a little bitof us mob in the desert and
allies that are there with usthat are very passionate and
strong with us there as well.
But if we can create morepeople that go, you know what?
Let's check out the desert orlet's hear what desert rangers
are doing.
That's what calling the animalsout there that Australia has
that we never knew existed.
We just create more people thatwill.
Just you know, aboriginalpeople are already a minority in

(30:48):
this country, let alone desertmob in the most remote part of
Australia.
So we've got to you know, weknow we've got to punch above
our weight constantly.
You know, If we get more peoplethinking about the desert, it
just is an extra bonus point.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
every time I see so much value in being outside and
hearing and smelling andlistening and trying to
understand what one the earth istelling you and what the birds
are telling you and any of theanimals around.
So I don't know if you want tospeak to that.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
Yeah, I mean, I live in Fremantle Way, so the girls
are always looking around forthat nature, and it's something
I do even with the other.
I mean I live in Fremantle Way,so the girls are always looking
around for that nature and it'ssomething I do even with a lot
of, you know, non-indigenousstaff and a dirty cultural sort
of way in Australia.
And it's like connecting tonature is a good way that anyone
can connect to what we're doing.
You know, and I always say,even if it's in the city, you

(31:39):
know, I always say things likewhen I do an icebreaker, it's
like, you know, can you goaround and see a place where you
feel your spirit is likerecharged or relaxed or
energized?
And for some people who arereally busy, it's really hard
for them to do straight away,but then they're like, oh well,
you know, I go walking on a bushtrek every day between work and

(32:01):
the office while they'resurfing.
Well, you know, I go walking ona bush track every day between
work and the office or I gosurfing down, you know, a market
river or do something and I'mlike that's you engaging with,
like the environment and nature,and you know, maybe you get to
understand a little bit aboutthat place, maybe know who the
mob, first Nations mob there are, maybe you get to hear some
stories about that little bit ofplace.
Or maybe next time you walkback from the office to your

(32:26):
house go a bit slower.
You know, look, like you said,look around at the birds and all
that, and I think that that'sthat.
You know.
A c Commonality thatnon-indigenous people can tap
into is nature and everyone isexposed to it and I think
sometimes for me, what I foundin my time is that's a really
great doorway to then understandculture.
And for what I find with somepeople who and a lot of times,
you know, I usually end up beingthe first, you know, black

(32:49):
fella friend someone's had, andthat's how I do it for them, you
know saying well, everyone isimmersed in nature in the city.
Let's start on that, like, whatdo you feel when you're walking
along to that office before youhave lunch?
Or when you and your family goto the same spot on the beach
where there's the rocks and yougo swimming, what are you
feeling?
And they're like oh, you'refeeling really actually

(33:10):
re-energised.
Or with my kids and all that,because that's a, you know, a
really important feeling Now tounderstand culture and the way
we have, you know countries.
Now imagine that you've beendoing that for you know, over
60,000 years, and the momentthat you're responsible for
making sure that that feeling isstill there.
That feeling is there becausethe country's being cared for.

(33:31):
You're slowly starting toaccept or understand the impact
of that weight of responsibility.
Now don't get overwhelmed bythat, but just make that small
little change in your day.
Go a bit slower between thatoffice and that park for your
lunch.
Understand a bit about thatpark.
I said you can go and find outif there's volunteer groups in
that little park.
Understand the traditionalowners of that country.

(33:51):
Understand some words and Itell you what.
That little walk between thatoffice and that building and
home will now be 100 timesbetter and more engaged and
you'll respect their countrymore.
And that's just maybe a walkbetween an office and your house
and walking through a park,like that's a small scale, as
non-Indigenous people that theycan do and Indigenous people who

(34:13):
want to connect in a way withwhere they are.
I do that with the girls.
We go down to Bribra Lake.
We sit around the Coogee, we,you know, check around what's
walking around.
See little animals walkingaround.
You know we try to understandwhat noongar mob that was living
there at that time.
You know what are the storiesand I appreciate and respect
that more because of thatknowledge.
It's that bit of effort you'vegot to give that effort.
So what we found is the natureaspect is a really good, easy

(34:37):
doorway for you knownon-indigenous people to get
into.
Then you make sure thatcultures in there understand
that about country and I'vefound over my time I've been
able to create more advocatesthat way.
You know, bringing them thatway because everyone can connect
to nature and once you get themunderstanding and connect to
nature, then you get them toculture and then I find that
I've had longer lasting peoplewho are advocates because of

(34:58):
that process.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
That's the best advice that I've ever heard in
the way that you justarticulated it.
Again, I'm sitting here goinglike God.

Speaker 4 (35:06):
Sam you're amazing and like connection.
So a lot of people say theydon't know what connection from
mob is to country and they'renot being disrespectful, you
know, some are being racist, butthe mob actually don't know
what connection means as afundamental being of who we are
as Aboriginal people.
You know, narelle, it's like Ido that nature thing but then go
, like I said, over thousandsand thousands of years of that

(35:29):
responsibility and that weightand that knowledge that is still
here in Australia.
Now, all of that, you whackthat baton, that connection,
that nature that you've justcreated, and that is the
connection.
All of that history, all ofthat history, all that ancestry,
all that knowledge is what wecarry around as aboriginal
people and that will give you asmall understanding of what

(35:49):
connection is and why we're sopassionate about as aboriginal
people.
Well, we need to advocate for itand you know allies who
understand that and they getthat and they respect the weight
by which it is and they want tostand with us.
They get it Like they get whatwe do, you know.
But yeah, I think that's keepbringing them that way, you know
, and it really helps.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
I just think that there's a responsibility, too,
that we've got to try to sharethis, and we just so that other
people realise that there's aresponsibility there to conserve
the plant 100%.

Speaker 4 (36:22):
And you know there's two things that I've heard
recently and that I alwaysreflect on, like two examples
Like with Kirikara mobs you knowthe most remote community in
the world.
You know they go a really proudway hunting cats because they
know the damage that it does forcommunity.
And you know some are next andlike, oh, but you know, surely
you know you're not ever goingto get rid of the cats and

(36:44):
there's cats in the rest ofAustralia, outside, everywhere
else, and the mob are just like,well, we're just worrying.
You know we're trying to focuson what we can do in our country
for now and celebrating thesmall wins and being really
proud and we're doing our bit.
And then, you know, add that towhen I've gone to you know

(37:06):
environmentalists and people whowork in the space like
volunteers.
You know in Melbourne, you knowthat's the same story that has
really resonated with me.
You have that from love thatare doing that.
Then I've met you know thiscouple who have been looking
after country in Melbourne for40 years planting trees in Mary
Creek in Melbourne and they'velooked after this country for 40
years non-Indigenous people,and they said the same thing.
It's like doing a little bitevery time with focus and

(37:29):
purpose and not beingoverwhelmed by the bigger
picture.
You know, there's some statsthat have come out saying that
when they've done their surveywith Australia, as a general,
people know that that'shappening, that we need to do
something.
They're just so overwhelmed byhow much to do that that
actually stops them from doinganything.

(37:51):
So if there's two examples ofvolunteers in Australia and not
on the ground who are lookingand doing the work, it's that
mentality.
And if we all individuallyfocus, purpose, genuine
commitment and do that small bitof changing the environment or
looking after it or even alsominimising the amount of impact

(38:13):
on the environment that you'reliving in, is a positive.
We just need to focus on thatbecause I think everyone
generally is really overwhelmedby you know what to do and I
think that actually prevents,that makes an action.
Then.
So just, you know, focus onjoining a volunteer group.
You know, connect with FirstNation Mob Caring for Country.
Then collectively we can make achange and not get overwhelmed.

(38:37):
And I think that always I keepthat in mind.
You know, mind when I getoverwhelmed by that stuff as
well.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yeah, I'm definitely a person that will get
overwhelmed by the too muchnessof an idea, so that's really
good advice, I think.

Speaker 4 (38:52):
And I know Luke thinks quite heavily about this
stuff as well.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Yeah, I mean sort of how I found my way here was
through climate activism.
I spent a lot of time with young.
My way here was, um, throughclimate activism, um, and I
spent a lot of time with youngindigenous first nations people,
um, working with traditionalism, the territory, and you know
games, you know big campaignsand um, and often mob wouldn't

(39:15):
think about the words climatechange.
They were saying we're justprotecting country, we're doing
what we've always done, and Ithink there was something
freeing in that for mepersonally to know that even if
there was no climate change, mobwould still be up there doing
the same things they've done forthousands of years.
And yeah, I guess for anindigenous person like myself,

(39:38):
that's um, those are the biggestlessons in my journey so far um
, and yeah, that's what that'sjust what I love about
indigenous rangers especially isum, that they're so committed
to that it's it's such aresponsibility that they carry,
but they also bring others likemyself along too and yeah,
there's a bit of irony withdesert mob Like they're living

(40:00):
their lives very, you know, intheir own way, in other ways,
very cultural practices andtraditional ways, and they're
keeping their things thatthey've been doing for years,
for a long time.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
They are the most impacted by climate change.
What's happening in the city isimpacting communities more than
it is in city.
You know you might notice extra, you know temperature for
electricity bill in Melbourneand Perth, but you go out to
remote community and they'vestayed the same, looking after
country, the same gentle way andimpacting.

(40:30):
But they're dealing with highertemperatures, more electricity
bills because of thetemperatures.
You know more of the feweranimals running amok, threatened
species are dying because ofyou know the heat, the fires,
extra stream flooding, you knowall of that.
So the irony that we as DesertMob are impacted the most but
actually probably in some waysare the most least people

(40:51):
causing the damage.
So it's not only that I needpeople to get across about what
we're doing, it's also a selfishreason as well.
You know that it's impactingthe people that I care about the
most.
So, yeah, but just not gettingoverwhelmed is the thing.
Everyone, all these rangers,are working hard every day,
knowing that, how much controlthey have over destroying or

(41:13):
getting rid of all the camels orgetting rid of all the big
rifle guns.
We're going to have to look athow that works out and it's
going to be hard.
But they're focused on justdoing what they do every day and
contributing.
And I think that's what we'regoing to do as a country is just
contribute on the small thingswith focus and encourage a lot

(41:34):
of people in Australia to lovethe environment, like really
love the environment.
And you know the best, one ofthe best things First Nation
Women of Australia can do isteach other people to love the
environment the way we love theenvironment.
And you know it's like anything, people will vote on what they
love.
If they're distant from it theywon't.

(41:54):
So you know that's the goalshould be making people love the
environment I was just thinkingabout some of these Indigenous
protected areas.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
They're two, three times the size of Tasmania, but
just alone some of this countryis huge.
It's a massive area to belooking after, but yet they're
out there every day and they'renot overwhelmed by it.

Speaker 4 (42:19):
Yep, and you know, we see, like I always talk about
at work, like the eternal goals,you know, like caring for
country and connecting tocommunity and caring for culture
, we all do that as people.
You know, in Australia andIreland we're not doing it to an
end point.
You know Some of the mostchallenging terms of project
funding.
With the work we do, it'sonly's only.
You know, three year cycles orwhat politicians are in, and all

(42:39):
that for aboriginal people it'sthere is no end date.
We see things in in a way whereit's the elders before us and
the mob coming behind us andthat I just keep going until I
don't go anymore and then mygirls will pick up carrying that
responsibility.
And that's the aboriginal way,way of how we've passed on our
knowledge as a country, you know.
So there isn't an end date.

(43:00):
In that sense it stillcontinues.
So you know, every time I go toa community ranger team, they've
got the map on there likeyou're saying, massive country,
and you might only have like 10rangers in a month and you might
have one car where you have toswap out ranges because you
don't have enough money to goout there, but they'll just
focus on one area.

(43:20):
They'll go we're going to go dothat little weed buffle there.
We're going to go and make surethat that sacred side of that
rock hole's got fence around itso them camels aren't destroying
.
Or they're going to protectthose night parrot habitat areas
and all the bull.
We're going to put some fencearound so the cats don't get
them.
And they're doing on thislittle bit of the map and you
see this massive IPA map, butthey're still doing it every day

(43:41):
, like you know.
And so there's an inspirationthat people get from rangers in
terms of the environment, causeit's just to focus on those
projects, you know, focus onthose small things and
collectively as a nation, we canget better at it.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Then, yeah, this will give you an insight into what
Sam's like as a boss.
He has eternal goals.
I guess Sam asked me.
I want you to write acommunications plan and put a
lot of work into it, and whenshe was reviewing it, one thing
she picked up was Luke, thesegoals are good for
communications, but I want youright up the top there to put

(44:16):
the eternal goals of country,culture and community and think
about that every day, even withwhat you're doing.
And yeah, so you can getapplied into everything that you
do, even if you're sitting at adesk most of the day, like I am
.
And did you say you're funny onthe way in as well, you are a
little bit funny.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Yeah, this is the third time catching up with you
and I'm glad that we finallycaptured you to have a yarn,
like you had me cracking up thefirst time you presented in.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
Melbourne.
I thought I was just here tomake Sam a cup of tea.
Turns out I got in themicrophone.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
And you're the first bloke to ever have graced the
EverConnect podcast oh yeah,Thanks for having me.
Congratulations, cheers.
So you must be a good bloke,because that is trendy.

Speaker 4 (44:56):
You know, something I said to Luke the very first
time and I think it was a goodreflection, because we've got to
bring our lives along, you know, and I told Luke I have to
adopt him like a little brothermulling.
You know, and you might regretit at times.
I'm a big, you know, olderdesert sister.
But something I've always saidto Luke in the beginning is that
you know you go on this journeywith us more than with me and

(45:24):
you're going to have to feeluncomfortable.
Because if you don't feeluncomfortable with learning some
new stuff about yourself, yourplace in the world and
Aboriginal people, then thatdoesn't mean that means you're
not shifting or you're notlearning anything new.
You know, think as adults wethink we know what we already
know and then we stay like thatand any shifting of learning
something new or churning insomething new hold, especially

(45:46):
when you're over 30, it shouldfeel uncomfortable.
And what I've said to Luke isthat when that happens you're
actually on the right thing.
But naturally as human beingswe go oh, oh, we're feeling
uncomfortable.
It mustn't be safe.
But when you're learning likeFirst Nations and work really
deeply and intimately, you'regoing to have that.
And then I always tease Lukesaying you know, once you and

(46:08):
he's come to have reallyintimate connections with more
people in the desert space andin the workplace going, you're
going to be stuck in a more wild, like you'll be wanting to
check chairs and all that, butalways make sure that the First
Nations person checks the chairfirst and then you come along
with the after and check thechair.
You know, so you know, andthat's that learning and Luke's
very humble on that.
And then you know he teaches mewith.

(46:29):
We never have to get a messageout about IDA and Desert Mob and
I'm a good yarner and that butwe've always had very
open-minded conversations and atrusting relationship where you
know how do I go in and talk topoliticians or how do we do that
way, and it's never changing meat all, but Luke works with me
and gives me guidance in termsof how to get the message across

(46:49):
in a way that gets our pointacross, not changing who I am,
but help me in that way, youknow, and so that's really
important to have those allieslike that that don't dampen who
you are but actually help you,elevate and shine more, and Luke
does that really well and thatrequires humility on his part

(47:10):
and learning, but also requiressome vulnerability on my part to
know that I don't knoweverything either.
But he's going to help me and wework, going to work together to
make sure that the voice that Ihave is strong, because I
recognise from quite early onnow there's a lot of places
where I might like I said, theonly woman, only Aboriginal
person, only desert person inthe room, and I recognise I

(47:30):
could shout constantly all thetime but I'd be exhausted.
Or I can be smarter and beefficient with how I'm
communicating and that's wheresomething like Lucas Combs,
manager, really works.
Really make sure that there'sonly one voice that's in there,
that's from DZ.
Let's make sure it's reallyreally clear and it cuts through
.
And that required me to havesome vulnerability in learning

(47:52):
as well.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
I think it's the greatest strength to be able to
admit that you don't knoweverything when you lead.
And I think it's the mostimportant time to admit, too,
that you don't know everythingand that you're on a learning
journey.
But a demonstration ofvulnerability in that learning
and that journey is, I think,the best strength that anybody
can ever have.
So, yeah, I've got enormousadmiration and love for you and

(48:15):
I think you're doing anextraordinary job.
You've just inspired the hellout of me.

Speaker 4 (48:20):
I always say to people that want to build upon
their journey and I try, and youknow I always want to support
mob that want to connect totheir country as well and people
that are not indigenous, thatwant to love the environment
more.
And I always say, like you know, I say things like go and spend
more time that place, but dothings that our mob would have
done, like go and have a picnicthere with your girls, you know

(48:41):
go and you know.
Tell stories there, you know.
Go on a date there with yourpartner, you know like go and
like have a little snooze underthe tree.
You know like, live on there ina way, even though it's like
maybe half a day, you know atthat place and like over time it
just builds more and you know,and that connection will just

(49:04):
also help people in their ownjourney about who they are and
it helps with that.
But it's such a grounding thingand in a way you're building
your own connection to thatlittle place and it doesn't take
much, you know.
But time and that's what a lotof people don't have a lot of
time of and I'm very consciousof that myself, I know when I
haven't grounded myself, whenI'm just busy, busy, busy and
it's hard because it's neverending that stuff and you know

(49:27):
being stressed and rushingaround for meetings and all that
stuff.
So I have to build that bitmore in, because that doesn't
ground me as an Aboriginal womanwhen I don't do that.
So I've got to work on that,yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
Gosh, this has been so awesome talking to you, Like
I mean, are we going to do thisevery week or what?

Speaker 3 (49:45):
Yeah, you two should do a podcast every week, Like I
don't need to be in it.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
I reckon if you just sit there and you're like, I
cannot tell you how much valueI've gotten out of today.
So, firstly, I'm going to beawake till three o'clock for the
next two weeks because I'mgoing to be researching desert
animals that barely anyone'sever seen Like.
I just can't say enough howmuch I love and admire your work
and you as a person, and I justthink you're amazing.

(50:11):
Thanks, narelle.

Speaker 4 (50:13):
You know, what you're doing in terms of connecting
people across, like variousplaces is amazing.
Like you know, don't ever behard on yourself with that
connection stuff, because that'spowerful.
What you're doing from thistable and you're sharing stories
, which I think is such who weare, but you're putting it on a
whole other you know level andpeople get to listen and in a

(50:34):
way, you actually condense it ina way where, like, people can
drive to work and listen to youryarns and other people's yarns
and you've kind of like really,you know, streamlined it so get
in.
So, yeah, what you're doing isamazing in terms of connecting
those stories and just tellingpeople.
You know what to say.
Like, you made me feel reallycomfortable.
Like I said this, my firstpodcast very nervous, very

(50:56):
nervous I was at any time whenthere's a new media um, but you
made me feel very comfortableand that's really important.
Um, and, like me, the pointthere's usually a little.
He tries if I'm very nervous,he tends to try to crack me up
and have a laugh because Inaturally calm myself.
So these are like a little testrun first, because I'm very
nervous when I'm um new thingslike this.
But you were really, you know.
You know kind of made peoplefeel safe, made me feel safe.

(51:17):
So keep going and doing whatyou're doing and sharing that
yarns and stories around,because there's a lot of mob
that you know listen andconnected in that.
You know what you're working inand connect to that, and that's
really important because, aswomen, like you know, we don't
have those big avenues sometimesand it's harder.
So, having a podcast where youcan yarn while you're driving to
go get woodies or pick up yourkids, it's pretty good, pretty

(51:41):
good.
You make compact size yarns.
I like it.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Yeah, yeah, I make digestible yarns so that we can
still do the dishes of both thekids.
Well, for me anyway.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (51:50):
I like that.
No, that's great.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
I like to tune them out sometimes when they're
whining, which has beenhappening quite a bit lately.

Speaker 4 (51:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
Yeah, so yeah, and Luke, sam, you've well and truly
adopted Luke, because I heardhim talking like us just a
little while like a couple ofways.

Speaker 5 (52:03):
Yeah, he drops in Luke.
So yeah.

Speaker 4 (52:05):
I'm like, oh, he has been adopted, luke.
It's great.
He does it really well and,like you know, one of the things
that I try to put it on.
But I was thinking we've beenhanging out too much because
he's starting to sound like me.
But yeah, put it back a littlebit.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
That's when you know you've got a good comms person
right there, yep, yep.
And I have to shout out to Tesstoo.
She wasn't able to be here, butshe's just sensational.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
So shout out to Tess and thanks, luke, no worries, I
think, some of the scenarios, aswell as this code switching.
That goes on, and I think it'sneeded to just be able to do a
bit of that too, obviously, so,respect to all of you who do
that every day.
Yeah, awesome.

Speaker 4 (52:43):
Now I try and say you know, like us mob, we've got to
for me to survive.
I couldn't just have aprofessional line boundary.
You know, the CEO, lindsay, whohad the job before me, wanted a
desert woman to take on thisrole or desert person.
He had to be my big brother forus to work as people and he

(53:03):
knew that.
So there was no line that wehad to do that.
And Sam is Luke, you knew youhad to be my little brother and
get growled and whatever.
But I also had to givecompliments as well sometimes.
That had to work for me to workand feel trusted.
And it's that shiftingOrganisations have got to shift
too in the middle for us as wellCan't just always be a small
bond on one side.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Yeah, and that's why we love Warren too.
You've met Warren.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
I told Luke actually I said, narelle's got one too.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
He was a little bit older, he was a little bit older
, huh.

Speaker 4 (53:32):
I said but he'll, like you Like, follow them to go
around together.
I said yeah, he got one.
She got one too.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
One of the highlights of my career so far was at an
event with Sam, and I think Iwas there literally to make the
tea for her, and then, anyway,she came back holding a cup of
coffee for me and then justseeing her realise what had
happened.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
I'm making you a cup of tea.
I don't think you ever made mea cup of tea.

Speaker 4 (54:00):
So, on a last note, I always like to ask what's your
best piece of advice that youcould give this is as much for
me is having a laugh like.
I think I try really hard tohave a laugh like, even if it's
thinking about having a laugh, Ithink we, you know, when you
think about all us sister girlstogether, family, and we're
laughing and that, and I think,capture a little bit of that.
So I'm always trying to makepeople laugh, to make myself

(54:24):
laugh.
I think I read one time someonesaid if you even fake laugh,
you know the brain startstricking that you're laughing.
And once I heard that as a kidI was trying to test it like you
know, correct jokes and allthat.
And then like fake laugh, andthen I mean looking in the
mirror while I'm laughing as akid wasn't the right trick that
they're talking about, buthaving a laugh now and then and
being kind on ourselves.

(54:45):
Like you know, we are achievingso much, so much, and I think
we can be incredibly.
And then there's there's somuch, you know women are working
so hard that in a weird way weare challenging each other to go
like harder again, becausethere's so much of us that are
doing some wonderful stuff withquite a lot of workload in there

(55:06):
.
So I think you know taking iteasy on each other a bit more
and you know taking it easy onourselves and just having a
laugh, like for me, that's a bigthing.
I actively aim to try and have alaugh a day and it sounds silly
, but I even make if I get alaugh and my girls are
incredibly funny comedians.
So if I don't, if I see them atthe end of the day I'm not

(55:28):
guaranteed, because they're verycheeky, they're ten times
funnier than me, so you canimagine how well I was laughing
at that.
But if I don't see them, I amgenuinely looking for funny
things like cat videos andYouTube and all that because I'm
aiming for a laugh each day andI just think that's part of the
thing.
We work so hard, we give somuch, we sacrifice, we do so
much, but having a laugh ormaking that little moment of

(55:53):
laughter, it really helps in somany reasons and I think that's
something.
Yeah, so I mean I could roll.
I don't know any reallyinspirational words in there,
but I think it's simply thatthat's kept me, you know, sane
going.
My mum actually knows thatthat's indicated If I'm not
laughing or yawning or having afeed.
That's usually something that'snot right, so yeah, but

(56:14):
laughing is big on there, that'susually something that's not
right, so yeah, the laughing'sbig on there.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
There's something truly breathtaking about our
deserts Vast, powerful, a lot ofold stories and species found
nowhere else on earth.
It's a beauty that's so hard todescribe until you've actually
stood in it and felt it andbreathed it in.
But that beauty doesn't protectitself.
The work the Indigenous DesertAlliance is doing to care for
those landscapes is not onlyvital, it's extraordinary.

(56:41):
It's grounded in generations ofcultural knowledge, scientific
skill and a deep responsibilityto country.
Now, if you've ever been movedby the magic of the desert, or
even just curious about what'sout there, this is your
invitation to learn more andstand alongside the people
protecting it.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
It's work worth backing and it's country worth
fighting for.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
So get involved.
Now is the time.

Speaker 5 (57:07):
Hey guys, thanks for listening.
Wildfire is about sparkingmeaningful conversations that
matter to Ember Connect'smembers and allies.
This podcast creates a space toamplify voices, share stories
and explore topics that drivechange, connection and personal
and professional growth.
By bringing these conversationsto life, we aim to inspire
action, deepen understanding andstrengthen the collective

(57:29):
impact of the Ember Connectnetwork.
A huge thanks to our guests forsharing their knowledge,
insights, time and passion withus and to find