September 9, 2025 • 47 mins
Fear thrives in the unknown — but freedom begins when we learn, explore, and understand. In this episode, we share how fear has been used as a tool of control in technology, culture, and even faith, and why choosing knowledge over fear opens the door to creativity, connection, and hope. From Y2K scares to AI myths, from parenting lessons to troubleshooting tech glitches, we talk about how replacing fear with curiosity can change everything.
If one person fears less — in life, in technology, or in belief — then we’ve done what we were called to do. Join us as we unpack how freedom isn’t found in avoiding fear, but in knowing enough to push through it.
🎧 Wired Together is produced by WinternetWeb Technologies, a family-run web design and tech studio based in Bracey, Virginia.
💻 Visit us at winternetweb.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:05):
Welcome to our um podcast.
I was trying to think quicklywhat's the number of our 10th
podcast from Wired Together withum your hosts Jason Winter and
Melanie Winter.
And um today we're planning towe were planning for a while
actually, which is um veryinteresting, to discuss fear.
(00:29):
The fear of what's coming up,the fear with AI, the fear with
um technology.
Of course, we have touched onthis probably more than one
episode, but we promised alittle more in-depth.
So we're this is kind of more ofour in-depth fear, um, and maybe
fear versus freedom.
Um so the cool thing is ironywould have it.
(00:50):
Um I think I'm using ironycorrectly.
SPEAKER_02 (00:52):
Oh, definitely.
English.
SPEAKER_03 (00:53):
Oh no, you're fine.
That um we had two customerscome in, both with concerns of
uh both with fear.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02):
And it's just today.
Like we're trying to sit down todo this and podcast or anything.
SPEAKER_03 (01:07):
So we thought we gotta kind of start with um, you
know, the very common fears.
Um we have not heard this once,but many times, but it was an
interesting reminder becausewe're about to do the podcast.
Sure.
Um, one in particular, she wasnervous to come in.
Yeah.
Uh, you know, it was sometimesyou uh you don't know feel like
(01:31):
you have all the knowledge, allthe jargon, right?
Yeah, and so like how do you howdo I explain what I need?
SPEAKER_00 (01:37):
You know, if I don't know all of the jargon and it's
like I'm not an expert, and sheeven alluded to as far as
technology that some peoplemaybe made her feel like she was
stupid.
I mean, and it's not fair.
I mean, you know, but dismissright.
Well, you know, well, woman, youdon't know what you're talking
about, or whatever.
And that's not fair.
She just has two computers andshe's trying to set up the new
one.
(01:57):
She wants data transferred fromthe old one.
SPEAKER_03 (01:59):
So it's like she knew exactly what she needed,
everything she said to me makessense.
Everything that um, you know,again, what was needed, and and
her jargon was completely fine.
SPEAKER_02 (02:08):
Oh, sure.
SPEAKER_03 (02:09):
Um, but I get the fear, you know.
Um probably not knowing it.
One point you were also uh anEnglish teacher for um middle
school, so you know, you've gota little bit of a background of
not just you know, you have toknow everything.
I'm I'm here to teach, I'm hereto talk about it.
Exactly.
I'm I'm here to understand.
(02:29):
Sure.
And so I uh she immediately feltcomfortable and was um just very
excited that it but I thought itwas very brave of her to let her
know, let us know that she wasshe was afraid to walk in.
SPEAKER_00 (02:40):
I know, yeah.
I'm bad, I'm glad she did, andwe scheduled something, and she
walked away and she's like, Ifeel so much better that I did,
and I I'm proud of her, andthat's you know, sometimes when
you're faced with something likefear, you realize you're
limiting yourself, and it's youknow, but because you know if
you can push through that, thenyou have that freedom for
(03:03):
something new.
SPEAKER_03 (03:04):
Well, um, you know, I one thing I had um learned in
a previous job with um I didwine tastings or do I did for uh
many years is is you did itfull-time, but now yeah, but now
yeah.
And so um but my dear friend,one thing he told me that I felt
(03:25):
like was so important was youknow, you you're gonna fall
into, you know, a lot of peopleknow a lot of different things.
There's so much to know aboutwine.
Oh yeah, you know, differentregions, all of these different
snail, you know, varies.
SPEAKER_00 (03:39):
All the nuances of the you know, yes, everything.
SPEAKER_03 (03:41):
There's so many things.
And once you start to learn, yourealize how little you actually
do know.
And he said the main thing youneed to always remember is
they're walking in not knowingour wines.
Right.
And you know our wines, andthat's why that's important.
SPEAKER_02 (03:55):
That is true.
SPEAKER_03 (03:56):
And so I've repeated him several times because you
know, I think that's soimportant to say, you know,
okay, I I get that you knowthings that are outside of my
scope.
Right.
But you walked in here to learnwhat my scope is, right?
And we teach you that.
So that makes sense.
Um I thought that was really andand that kind of helps with the
fear, especially again,something as large as technology
(04:18):
or something as as expansive andwine's been here for thousands
and thousands of years.
So there's so much to know.
SPEAKER_00 (04:24):
But I mean, nothing larger than space in the
universe.
I remember as a child andlearning, of course, the moon,
the sun, the earth.
We understand that relationshipand all the planets.
Sorry, Pluto, but actually Plutostill exists.
Yep, I know.
I'm team Pluto too.
Pro Pluto.
Yep.
Um, and then all the stars.
(04:44):
And you you know, you kind oflike, okay, I understand how
things work in the universe.
As you study in more depth, yourealize, like you, like you're
saying, I don't know anything.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (04:54):
Now I have enough.
SPEAKER_00 (04:55):
So, but I think with any um industry, any topic, you
have a certain level you get towhere it's like, all right, I
get this.
You take that next step, andthen all of a sudden you have
fear.
You're like, maybe I don'tunderstand this at all.
But you can't forget what you doknow, and also you don't need to
know it all.
You know, you just need tocontinue to navigate through it
(05:17):
and learn more.
SPEAKER_03 (05:17):
The healthcare system, you have specialties,
you know, right, exactly.
You have the whole you know,everything and everything are
working.
SPEAKER_00 (05:23):
Yeah, it would be unfair to expect that, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (05:25):
So, you know, that that's one thing is you know,
fear of not knowing enough.
Um, and the the other one thatkind of leans into a little bit
more of our topic is we had a umclient that was just went out
and right out and said, youknow, are you afraid of AI?
SPEAKER_02 (05:43):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (05:44):
And so um if I I immediately started to laugh
because I knew my topic for fortoday.
So right.
SPEAKER_00 (05:51):
So I'm like, okay, the person here chuckling over
there, finishing up onsomething, she can write around.
I'm like, she's gonna comearound and talk because the
irony of it again was we're justabout to do a podcast on it, and
uh hope you're listening.
So you asked.
SPEAKER_03 (06:06):
Um But yeah, that you want to talk about what that
was, or was it just as far as sokind of you know, when something
can be made up so quickly, youknow, um then you start to get
into what's real.
SPEAKER_02 (06:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (06:21):
And so um which is very interesting, you know, it
kind of leans into you know yourfake news, um, you know, your
you know, your memes that aren'teven real, you know, right,
exactly.
It's like videos, whole videos,or even actual truth.
SPEAKER_00 (06:35):
Um and we see a lot in social media and we've
learned to be cautious.
SPEAKER_03 (06:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
That if we see something, it may not be real.
SPEAKER_03 (06:42):
So what I told her was um it well, what uh Jason
told her, which was a reallygood point, is you know, it now
that we know more, we are havingmore of a critical eye.
Yeah, we're starting to learn.
We're starting to see that okay,this may not always be true.
Right.
Um, even though you're lookingat it with your eyes, you know,
it's still not necessarily true.
(07:03):
And so I said that you know, my13 and 11-year-old were, you
know, um what I was showing themsomething, I think it was a
video.
SPEAKER_00 (07:11):
It was video, well, yeah, last night immediately.
SPEAKER_03 (07:13):
It took almost no time at all.
Both of them went, that's AI.
SPEAKER_00 (07:17):
And we're like and we're like, okay, how do you
know that?
Right.
And they're like, all right,watch.
You know, like right here.
And it was something about themovement's moved at the exact
same thing.
There's something that be thatyour eye realizes all that.
SPEAKER_03 (07:31):
Yeah, see what they had a better critical eye than I
did.
Right.
I didn't even notice.
SPEAKER_00 (07:35):
Didn't know it's how unnatural it was.
SPEAKER_03 (07:36):
They did, they saw the unnatural movement, and then
they um that seemed natural tome because it just it was of
natural movement.
SPEAKER_00 (07:42):
Right, but it's a big picture.
You're looking at something andyou're not, but apparently they
are seeing enough, just likesome other people.
I mean, it wasn't that long agowhen AI would make images and
things like that that we wouldall just joke and say, oh, it's
AI.
Look, that person has sixfingers.
I mean, AI had a hard time withfingers um in image creation,
(08:05):
among other oddities, but withmore iterations, it is getting
better.
And um, you know, but there'llbe other things too.
You know, as soon as you startseeing leaps going forward,
there's always going to be thatreminder of, oh, yeah, okay.
I thought you were here, but youI mean, like our AI co-host
who's on vacation again, I guesswe'll get the story, but we know
(08:29):
um our AI co-host, you know, itslips up, gets silly, voice
cracks, or whatever.
We don't understand what's goingon.
SPEAKER_03 (08:35):
And um every once in a while he sounds like helium is
right, is it?
SPEAKER_00 (08:40):
Is it like, did you hear that?
SPEAKER_03 (08:43):
But um, he is not flawless.
Nope.
But you know, that is the thenature of it.
Technology is not flawless.
No, of course not.
It's gonna have its flaws.
SPEAKER_00 (08:53):
It's constantly in a state of evolution.
SPEAKER_03 (08:54):
And and I think having a critical eye um early
is extremely important, and andjust having a critical eye at
any point, you know, if ifsomething doesn't seem like it
should be real, it probablyisn't, you know.
And so we we are our senses arealways, you know, are very often
m mistaking something, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (09:15):
So and having a critical eye is important
because it it can help you haveconfidence a little bit more of
okay, I don't need to know itnecessarily, but I know what to
look for in what I don'tunderstand.
And you know, it's technology asa whole is really something that
(09:37):
we need to teach ourselves andalso teach our children.
SPEAKER_03 (09:42):
Right.
Well, that goes into kind of thefirst part of the actual true
episode that we were uh puttingtogether is that you know
sometimes the fear is the notknowing and it's the not
understanding.
Um and that is the the thingthat freedom can come from is
being able to learn it, beingable to know it.
(10:02):
Um, that does give you enough umcomfort level.
And so it's it's not to stayaway.
I don't know it, so I'm scaredof it, and I want to stay away.
Sometimes we don't really getthat choice.
And so it's um maybe a littlemore in maybe I need to
understand it, maybe I need moreclarity, um, work with it
instead of against it.
SPEAKER_01 (10:23):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (10:24):
Um and so you know that can be helpful in as a tool
for creativity, for expression,for small tasks.
If we if we open ourselves up toit and instead of um you know,
fearing.
SPEAKER_02 (10:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:38):
And so kind of going on that is, you know, fear is we
should always realize that fearis control.
So anytime we feel fear, thereis a reason for it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:50):
You want to regain that control.
Right.
Because you feel like, you know,this may either take something
from you or something thatyou're not able to harness and
feel comfortable with.
SPEAKER_03 (10:59):
Right.
So I kind of kind of consider italmost a self-fulfilling
prophecy.
It's the fear is um fear willstart to control you, and so
then you want more control overit, and it controls you more,
and it's actually gives you thereason to have fear to begin
with, so it's almost like it's aloop.
(11:20):
It's a circle, yeah.
Right?
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
Yep, definitely is.
SPEAKER_03 (11:25):
Um, and so you know, we've got a couple of biggies of
what this fear is is creating.
And so one thing is, you know,in teaching our children, uh,
one of the biggest things forparents is what do I embrace
about technology and what do Iuh pull away.
SPEAKER_00 (11:41):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (11:42):
And so um the way we have a tendency to see it is you
know, you don't hand a16-year-old car keys and just
say, you know, best of luck.
SPEAKER_00 (11:52):
No, you know, that is a especially if they're on
your insurance.
SPEAKER_03 (11:55):
That's that's a a big machine that you, you know,
any person that is going tooperate that machine has got to
have some knowledge of whatthey're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (12:05):
Yeah, they need the training, right?
SPEAKER_03 (12:08):
Not everybody can be as lucky to live kind of in a
more open space, but we do, youknow, try to teach our kids a
lot earlier here in rural areas,and so you know, go ahead as
soon as you're tall enough tobreach, yep, drive in the field,
do whatever.
Yes, drive in the field.
So um be able to we have um youknow tried to make sure that
(12:28):
when we go into releasing thatum autonomy to the child that
they have some understanding ofwhat they're doing.
So you you do want, you know,and you know, even the law says
they should be driving with anactual responsible adult.
SPEAKER_02 (12:46):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (12:46):
And you know, most parents are gonna be wanting to
be that person and wanting to bethe adult that's that's driving,
you know, with the child,teaching them things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (12:56):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (12:56):
Well, technology's like exactly the same way.
You don't hand them the keys.
Yeah, you know, they whenthey're not developed well
enough to have all of the keys,right?
You know, and as they learn,sure, you have more freedoms,
but you know, they should alwaysbe uh taught that this is a
(13:17):
privilege to have things thatare make life easier to do task
and communicate, but we can alsoyou know not have that privilege
if we don't treat it correctlyand we don't develop with it and
we don't learn it.
But I mean yeah, um learningtechnology has been very
important in the world.
SPEAKER_00 (13:37):
Which technology is a tool, so is a car.
And if you're teaching themabout it, you obviously realize
if they have their phone orsomething like that, you can't
be over the shoulder everysecond.
You can't be in the car withthem every second.
So it's not just teaching themhow to do it, it's also
teaching, you know, the theresponsibilities and you know
(13:58):
the limitations and you know thescenarios beyond, you know,
you're hoping to prepare themfor things that you know you
may, you know, not know how toexperience or you know, or have
experienced rather.
Because I mean the world doeschange, right and the kids are
involved in things that are muchmore elaborate than maybe we're
(14:20):
used to.
SPEAKER_03 (14:21):
Right.
And so it's trying to beoutright with them, you know,
try to make sure that theyunderstand again all the things
that can be fake.
Um somebody that randomly talksto you, you know, that our kids
know not to talk to anybody thatis not someone they know in real
life.
Yeah.
And so that is extremelyimportant to us.
(14:42):
Um, and so that is you know togo ahead and let them know.
Yeah, people aren't what theysay they are.
SPEAKER_00 (14:51):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (14:51):
So you don't have you you can't believe everybody.
SPEAKER_00 (14:54):
Right, exactly.
And if they gotten like a randomtext before, and usually it's
like always a scam, you know,your car warranty or health
insurance, something like that,and you're like, I got this
text, and they're letting usknow.
And it's like, yep, just goahead and report, delete,
whatever.
You know, but anytime they getsomething, it's like we've we've
drilled it into them, you know,hey, look, don't be afraid to
(15:15):
come to us because we don't wantthem to be in a situation if
they're afraid to come to us,then you know, something you
know that goes against thelearning process and you know
could get you in a situation.
SPEAKER_03 (15:25):
Right.
So if you teach no fear, youknow, exactly.
Yeah, be like, hey, you know,you're not gonna know
everything, so here's why I'mhere.
SPEAKER_00 (15:31):
Exactly, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:32):
Um, I'd rather that you didn't, you know, you
realize you don't knoweverything and come to me.
SPEAKER_02 (15:36):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (15:38):
Um so we also kind of you know, fear of of collapse
um is is been really big lately.
Oh yeah.
Um you know, just uh everythingis going to kind of go down, you
know, your Y2K situation virusesand viruses and um so you know
(16:04):
the those kind of like moreexplosive fears, um, you know,
that is kind of that way of ofum creating that that fear on
more of a biblical proportion ofthe end of the of the world and
that sort of thing.
The plague.
You know, and and I I don't wantto treat that lightly, but you
(16:28):
know, there is again youremember the Y2K scare, and so
you know, as far as when thatall of that happened, backups
weren't all that big a deal andstuff like that.
So we've gotten a little more umsmart about it.
A lot of times we're gonna haveum fallbacks that bring us into
being a little smarter next timeand being able to overcome
(16:51):
right.
And so, you know, um backupsnowadays are everything, you
know.
We've got servers all over theyeah, we've got a lot of cloud
computing and things like that.
SPEAKER_00 (17:01):
But I mean it's um it of course back in Y2K, it the
fear of everything going down,banking, all my information be
lost, and you know, gottaremember, sometimes some of
these events may be while theymight be truth to it, they're
they are hyped, as we realizewith this.
(17:21):
But it's to get us to the nextstage of where things are going,
and now everyone's on board.
Wait, because we experiencedthat, now we must accept this
next thing.
So, but anyway, what was thewording?
Problem reaction solution.
SPEAKER_03 (17:37):
Problem reaction solution.
Yeah, you create the problem,yeah.
The then you have the resultingreaction reaction, and then the
solution which you've alreadycreated from the problem, right?
You already knew is is doledout.
So it's a lot of that isorchestrated, a lot of that is
you know your Orson Wells kindof situations.
Oh, yeah, you know, oh you know,the aliens have landed, and you
(17:59):
know it's kind of like when thepatent for antivirus software is
already there before weexperience viruses.
Right.
It's convenient, it was veryconvenient moving along.
SPEAKER_00 (18:11):
Um we won't speak of them.
We did.
SPEAKER_03 (18:16):
Um and so you know, a lot of this is fear is
typically coming from um how weeducate ourselves, and so you
know, it's it's not that strangeto, you know, and you're
starting to learn to walk andthings like that.
You're gonna of course fall,then you fear to fall, so you
(18:37):
learn to walk better.
Right.
I need to be more careful goingin this.
Um, you know, to me personally,I think it's a very healthy fear
to fear spiders because what youknow, there is one out there
that might kill you.
SPEAKER_00 (18:51):
Well, that is definitely in Australia.
SPEAKER_03 (18:54):
But well, we had the Black Widow.
SPEAKER_00 (18:56):
Oh, I know, and I know it's a lot less likely, but
I know, but I get it though.
It's good to have a fear becausethen you know you see something
and you're cautious, you're notlike, oh, come here, let me pet
you.
SPEAKER_03 (19:06):
You know, it's you know, and I think that's what we
tend to do, is and what I do,and probably wrong.
Um, but you know, the BlackWidow could kill you.
Um, but all spiders can't.
Right.
So we do have to kind of youknow keep that in mind when we
have fear.
SPEAKER_01 (19:25):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (19:25):
Of course we're gonna fear spiders, but they
really aren't all about to setup too.
They don't they don't even allhave venom.
No, you know, then they'repretty much just living their
lives, you know, regular webdesigners, hanging out.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
Web designers, yeah.
I get it, and I heard that.
SPEAKER_03 (19:43):
Yeah, so um oh that you know, it we're also very I
find it very interesting in ineducation.
One thing we get taught in whenit comes to fear is fearing
what's next.
SPEAKER_02 (19:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:58):
Um, I can't tell you how many times I've um in a
classroom.
Well, you know it's gonna beworse next year.
Oh, yeah.
You're just you're not gonnahave it as lovely as you have it
this year because it's gonna beso much worse next year.
Next year you're gonna be inmiddle school, it's gonna be so
much worse.
And and next year you're gonnabe in high school, it's gonna
be, you know, right, and collegeisn't gonna, you know, the gonna
(20:21):
hold your hand.
Oh, I know.
And it's like, okay.
So so I try to remember remindum every single child I actually
meet that talks about that.
Um, so not just my own children,but other people's children.
It's like I just want to giveyou a secret.
SPEAKER_00 (20:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (20:40):
They tell you that.
But every year I have been inthat they tell me that it's
always better the next year.
SPEAKER_00 (20:48):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (20:49):
Because the next year you not only have you know,
you get a little less handheld.
SPEAKER_00 (20:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (20:55):
Which is great, you know, because then you get a
little more freedom.
SPEAKER_00 (20:58):
True.
That is true, you get morefreedom.
SPEAKER_03 (21:00):
So you kind of you go into a little more freedom, a
little more freedom, a littlemore freedom, a lot more
freedom.
Yeah, you know, and then it'slike, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (21:07):
But you also don't anticipate your own growth that
took place.
Like right now, I don't knowthis.
But a year from now, wow, lookwhere I've come.
SPEAKER_03 (21:14):
So it seems so uh ridiculous to me to teach
children that it's always gonnabe worse.
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:20):
And it's like, don't, don't pay attention.
They do that, and I don't knowwhy.
I remember, but I want you toknow that it's actually always
better.
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
Yeah.
Um, in the school system I wasin, our classrooms were kind of
divided by partitions.
So you had like four classes inthis main room, let's let's say.
So it's kind of like you know, aone-room schoolhouse, but not.
And so I remember in thirdgrade, we're talking about
multiplication, and we startedgetting into division.
(21:48):
But every now and then I couldhear the fourth grade teacher
right across the partitiongetting into long division, all
this kind of stuff.
And I remember sitting there,just like you're talking about,
thinking, I'm never gonna beable to do that.
I mean, I'm listening to them doit, and you know, and I'm like,
that's next year, I'm gonna bedead.
Uh, you know, I can't do it.
But then when fourth grade cameabout, and I still had this in
(22:09):
my memory when I started fourthgrade, and I realized uh within
that first two weeks of school,I'm like, okay, I I I do know
this, and it that kind of stuckwith me in what you're talking
about because I'm like, okay,every year, you know, we don't
we're not often realizing howfar we have come with things,
but there's always that fear ofI'm not gonna be able to.
SPEAKER_02 (22:31):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:31):
But at whatever age you are right now, look at how
old you are right now, what haveyou accomplished?
What do you real what would youhave stopped yourself from if
you know you didn't allowyourself to exact if you knew
the hill you had to climb,exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (22:47):
Yeah, so the saying I hear so many adults say, Oh,
just wait till you're an adult.
Oh, oh, just wait till you're anadult.
Yeah, that's and you can havetoo many adults say that to you.
SPEAKER_00 (22:58):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (22:59):
To the point it becomes so fearful to become an
adult.
SPEAKER_02 (23:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (23:04):
And I I try to, you know, remind my children when
when adults say that, it's like,guys, I actually like being an
adult so much better.
SPEAKER_02 (23:14):
Yeah.
Again, getting back to free.
SPEAKER_03 (23:16):
I get what they're saying.
I'm not saying that that's wrongwhat they're saying, but don't
fear it.
Right.
Because actually you're gonna bean adult a lot longer than a
child's.
Yeah, we hope.
Embrace your childhood, enjoyyour childhood.
Don't do it with fear becauseyou know what?
Adulting is fun too.
That's right.
I have enjoyed being an adult.
SPEAKER_00 (23:36):
And we don't want to minimize anyone's problems, you
know.
I mean, kids are going through,you know, the quote unquote like
technology technologicalplayground of life, you know,
but then before the you know,beta release and of you know
software.
So it's but there is still alearning process that we can't
(23:56):
say, oh, just wait till you gethere, you know.
This is valuable too.
It's not like wait until youturn 18, now I'll start teaching
you things.
Now you're an adult, here areproblems.
Now let's bring up, you know,conflict resolution.
SPEAKER_03 (24:09):
You know, right.
It's like that should be waybefore.
SPEAKER_00 (24:12):
Conflict resolution unlocked.
SPEAKER_03 (24:14):
Oh my gosh.
No.
So, you know, I think that um Ithink we get taught this
continual envisioning of fear,you know, fear of we're not
gonna ever know enough.
Um fear that the things that wedon't know about is gonna, you
(24:35):
know, just completely take usover and that kind of thing.
And and so, you know, that um alot of times it also turns into
kind of fear of messing up, fearof failure, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:49):
No, that's very common.
SPEAKER_03 (24:50):
And so, you know, that's that's definitely with
the technology, people don'twant to touch it.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
Yeah, well, I didn't want to do anything, I thought
it was mess it up.
Yeah, yeah, and it's like yeah,just like all of us, yeah, of
course.
SPEAKER_03 (25:02):
And and so, you know, the we we named it, we
decided to name it glitchhappens.
SPEAKER_00 (25:08):
Yep, glitch happens, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (25:09):
So, you know, sometimes glitch-ups happen, and
we become afraid of fixing, uhso as opposed to like knowing
that technology is almost alwaysfixable, not always, but yeah,
there are a lot of times um youreally didn't lose what you
thought you lost.
Oh, yeah, you know, that kind ofthing.
(25:30):
It's it's in there somewhere,and and I think a lot of this is
um the the earlier age umcomputing where you actually
could lose something uh almostentirely computers make very
fast accuracy mistakes, right?
And you could lose the wholething.
Um nowadays it is extremelydifferent, and so there is a lot
(25:52):
of a there are a lot ofsafeguards that have been built
in.
Safeguards that have been putinto place because we've lost so
much in the past, you know.
The last thing you want is likeright before launch for NASA to
completely lose all of thecomputing.
SPEAKER_00 (26:04):
I was gonna say losing your photo album, yes,
that is very sad, especially.
But for a billion dollar companyto have lost their entire, you
know, next software, you know,release that you know someone
said, How do we prevent this?
Right.
And they built it in.
SPEAKER_03 (26:20):
So there's a lot more.
Um, and so one thing you know,we we've been able to do when it
comes to the computer repairpart of what we do is is
recovery.
And you'd be surprised whatyou're actually able to recover
that just seem completely lost.
SPEAKER_00 (26:36):
Just because you can't get to it don't mean it's
not there.
Right.
And that's kind of you know,it's behind that door, you know,
but that's not an option for meright now.
SPEAKER_03 (26:44):
And you know, so that that realization of I can
find it, even if I don't knowexactly how to just yet, I can
find it.
Right.
Um, I think is it been reallyhelpful for other people.
Yeah, I think so.
If nothing else, you know, I canat least call up Jason and and
he can figure out how to findit.
SPEAKER_02 (27:03):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (27:03):
Um, and you know, it's it's been helpful as far as
a teaching tool, you know.
Um I I do love that my girls cantroubleshoot um because they
they're not as afraid of makingthe mistakes.
No.
And so really no.
And so they do get a lot of umlike my parents will watch them
do something and and fix it.
(27:24):
Right.
And, you know, and it's like,whoa, how were they able to do
that?
Right.
And it's like, well, it's reallynot necessarily knowing how to
troubleshoot as much as it isbeing confident, knowing that
you you can't screw it up withso much.
SPEAKER_00 (27:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (27:39):
So then they play with it and then they know how
to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (27:42):
And you recognize the patterns, and you think
being in a household of peoplethat work in a technology
business, that the child mighthear you do it, and they throw
us to remote.
When in fact, they don't.
You know, they go ahead andclick, click, click, click, all
right, I got it.
SPEAKER_03 (27:53):
Oh, you know, they often show us what to do.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (27:56):
Sometimes I'm yeah, it's another story.
I'll get into the pip anyway.
Hang on to that.
Um, but yeah, but you know, it'snot like, oh, we know and I
don't.
It because again, well, we'revery careful to make sure, all
right, you try, you think, you,you know, but you know, their
troubleshooting has just comethrough a lot of their own
exploration and confidence thatthey've built in that.
So, but yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:17):
And you know, that they're not perfect people by
any means.
This is mainly just talkingabout how we are trying to, you
know, to reduce fear oftechnology.
Yes.
We're um along this these kindof lines.
SPEAKER_02 (28:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:37):
So and it pretty much is you know exactly what is
used against us when we start torealize um or or hang too much
onto fear.
We we we create this this worldof fear.
Um, of course, we can talk aboutfear for probably hours when it
(29:01):
comes to everything that is, youknow, um within the world and
all that.
This is really just beingtechnologically based.
So, you know, one of the biggestfears is of course scams.
SPEAKER_00 (29:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:11):
And that is actually exactly what they want you to
have.
SPEAKER_00 (29:14):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (29:15):
Scammers want that um the fear, yeah, because
that's what works, is how theycan actually stop manipulate you
to yeah, and you'll stopthinking, and then you move
forward.
Yeah, you might not think of itquite as critically, yeah,
because now they've given you somuch fear.
So uh a lot of scammer tacticsare used to uh create fear.
(29:36):
Yeah, if you don't do this now,you know, this urgency, yep,
they create urgency for sure.
You do a talk on scamming a lot,yeah, and one of the main
things, you know, is is goingthrough a bulleted list of how
do you know it's a scam, and oneof those is urgency.
Yeah, you know, if you don't dothis now, you know, we're we're
gonna you know shut the wholething down, and now you've
(29:57):
gotten out and that kind ofthing.
So it's it's one.
Of those tools that is used, sowhen you know that you don't
have as much to fear as youthink, then there is that you
know, okay, if they're puttingout some urgency, I need to see
if I need to do this in twohours, right?
SPEAKER_00 (30:17):
And I got a bill for a product I don't even own, and
then it should be a you know,heads up.
And I mean, I could I could talktwo hours on this, but it's uh
call the number.
SPEAKER_03 (30:30):
Right.
Most big companies out there,you know, that you're working
with, you know, whether it's anantivirus company, right, um,
your software company oranything like that, they are
massive.
Oh, yeah.
They're not urgent at all.
SPEAKER_00 (30:44):
Oh no, no.
SPEAKER_03 (30:45):
Your little whatever bill, uh Dominion, they don't do
anything with power in thestate.
SPEAKER_00 (30:49):
Yeah, diminish, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (30:51):
They are not going to jump down your throat with
urgency on a bill.
They want you to know.
SPEAKER_00 (30:58):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (30:59):
But they're not gonna do that urgency thing,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (31:02):
Most of these companies have said we're not
gonna reach out to you.
SPEAKER_03 (31:05):
And they would never do something like that too.
They're customers.
You are technically theircustomers.
Yeah, most companies are notgonna do that.
So that is a definite that's ascammer if if urgency has been
put in place.
SPEAKER_00 (31:17):
Yeah.
I think a big part of it is, youknow, uh anyone can be caught.
I mean, we I would say we've allbeen scammed.
I've been scammed, and you know,it's just you sometimes get
caught off guard, just like thatphone call of someone, and
you're just not in the rightmindset to really talk to them,
and you man, maybe it was rude.
You know, it's but you caughtoff guard and you think it's a
(31:39):
problem because oftentimes ascammer is reaching out with
something, and um then you reactto that again, problem reaction
solution.
So they send you a problem, yourcredit card was just charged$599
for whatever this thing, andthen you go, oh no, you call the
(32:01):
number.
Now that scammer who is talkingto you very professionally, and
you know, I'm gonna help youthrough this, don't you worry.
I mean, why are they so nice?
Because they're making money offof this, unfortunately, and
they're you know, then whathappens there is they get you to
go through a process to fix theproblem that actually never
(32:22):
existed.
Because again, at email, youweren't, you know, actually
charged that.
Then you're letting the scammerin to then do the damage.
So it's um, I remember somebodywas here one time and they were
like, Why do these people dothis?
Why don't they get a job?
And I was like, they're making alot more money than I am.
I mean, and it's unfortunate.
(32:42):
I've had banks call me to helpwith clients and all that, and
I, you know, it it's we see moreof this than you know we would
want to.
But again, going back to or thetopic, it all starts with fear
because you make a reaction tosomething because you're afraid.
What if I don't?
(33:03):
Um, so yeah, it's yeah, it'sthat that's a big thing though.
SPEAKER_03 (33:07):
Right.
And always remember again, thesecompanies will not actually do
the steeds.
SPEAKER_00 (33:11):
No, and that that's what you're saying with as far
as these bigger name companies,and uh no one reads the terms of
service, I know that, but Imean, if you look at the bottom
of many of their emails, theywill say we are not going to
reach out for sensitiveinformation.
If you get contacted from us,please make sure that you reach
out to us through our number.
Do not call the number providedto you.
(33:31):
You know, it's I mean, I I couldrattle off the entire script,
but and um, and even though Iknow this, I can't be a hundred
percent sure that I won't bescammed in the future.
Because again, if donecorrectly, don't change tactics.
If they yeah, they'll changethey they evolve.
I've seen the evolution and howI need to fight the uh the
viruses and the malware and howthe way intrusions, it's
(33:54):
evolved, and you have to kind ofread it and figure it out.
But yeah, they'll they'll moveon when it when it stops
working, they'll figuresomething else out.
Not that you need to be afraid,but you need to be cautious and
you just need to be open andjust you know, don't don't
dismiss trying to learn it more,yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (34:14):
So and call your friendly computer repair.
SPEAKER_00 (34:17):
Oh yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's um it can't tellyou how many times people reach
out to me.
Uh sometimes I'll get an emailor a text, is this legit?
I'm looking like nope, throw itaway, or whatever, you know, and
and and it's not reallybothering me at all, you know.
It's just I'd I'd rather I'drather the contact be that than
(34:40):
I'm out twenty thousand dollars.
Can you, you know, the bank haslocked everything on my computer
until you fix it.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (34:52):
But so yeah, we've um trying to move in, okay.
We've discussed enough of thefear.
Right.
So why does this give us um whydoes fear change into knowing
lead to freedom?
(35:12):
And so this is where we're, youknow, we see a lot of technology
and and uh the way things arekind of shaping themselves as
its own freedom.
Yeah.
Um I know I was just discussingwith um dear friend of mine.
We were, you know, both talkingabout housework and stuff like
(35:33):
that, and trying to get thingsdone and everything, and I had
everything running and and wasable to step away and have a
conversation with her.
SPEAKER_00 (35:40):
Right.
Because all the machines wererunning, you know, and your
droids were working for you.
SPEAKER_03 (35:46):
And I'm like, I do not want to go back in time at
all.
Right, exactly.
I love the fact that I can throwclothes in there and they just
go, I can put dishes in thedishwasher, right?
And it goes, I you know,technology is also the
dishwasher and the um the dryer,exactly, yeah, the the coffee
pot.
This is all technology, and soat one point, you know, people
(36:09):
were you know unsure of all ofthese things, but well, what how
do I operate this?
What do I do?
You know, I remember grandmahaving such a hard time with the
microwave.
SPEAKER_00 (36:19):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (36:20):
It's like I I don't know, I just don't like it.
SPEAKER_00 (36:23):
Well, it's just new and fancy.
SPEAKER_03 (36:24):
Grandma, all you gotta do is push a few buttons
and that's it.
And nope, nope, I'm not doingit.
Right, which I get for grandma,but um she just had her way and
she was gonna do it her thing.
That's right.
But you know, as far as youknow, remembering that all of
these things really are just newtechnologies um that that I
dearly love.
I dearly love the the freedomthat it offers.
SPEAKER_00 (36:46):
So sure, exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (36:48):
Now if we learn to like fold and put away at the
same time, yeah, yeah, do it.
SPEAKER_00 (36:53):
Yeah, that definitely can't wait for that
upgrade.
But um, so it's uh I guesscontinuing with that, um the AI
keeps coming up as a topic, ofcourse, with technology because
that I mean that is the latest,you know, uh buzzword, if you
(37:15):
will.
SPEAKER_03 (37:15):
Buzzword.
SPEAKER_00 (37:16):
Buzzword.
SPEAKER_03 (37:17):
It's the buzzword that's you know all set up to to
end us.
SPEAKER_00 (37:21):
Yeah, it's I mean, we have kind of flashbacks to
Terminator and um 2001 SpaceX.
No, they have not, but they theythey've kind of like made
prepared us, maybe, if that'sthe right word.
SPEAKER_03 (37:33):
Yeah, critical thinking, that's great.
SPEAKER_00 (37:34):
Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (37:35):
Critical thinking is wonderful.
SPEAKER_00 (37:36):
Um but you know, but one of the biggest things is it
AI isn't magic, and I know itlooks like it, because it's
like, oh my gosh.
You know, we have seen actuallyabout two, two, two and a half
years ago for the most part, itbecoming getting into the
households and usage, um a biguh jump in what technology is
(38:01):
able to offer us.
I mean, if you think aboutautocorrect or what do you call
it, suggestive whatever, like inGoogle when you start typing
something and it finishes yourphrase or sentence, technically
that is AI.
And while useful or not,definitely not autocorrect, um
we've seen this big jump in whatAI is doing.
(38:22):
So while it looks like magic,it's just pattern recognition
that is trained on data.
But we've kind of unlocked theamount of resources given to it.
So almost overnight we have felta shock, which again, it can be
fear, it can be excitement, andsometimes both.
(38:43):
And um, but it's not the firsttime that we have had um yeah, I
know we've talked about in aprevious episode, like the
printing press, and how I mean,if you think about it, when the
printing press came about, um,there was a lot of fear, there
was a lot of okay, this is notnatural, this machine is
(39:03):
printing this book.
Didn't help that the Bible was,you know, very much involved in
that.
But these scribes that handwrote stuff for thousands of
years, um, you know, it thething is uh that it's not that
we destroyed the scribes.
With the printing press, we madeeducation more widespread.
SPEAKER_03 (39:26):
Right.
People could read the Bible intheir own language with that.
That's what you meant by the theway you said that.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, okay.
It's like when you're like, whatare you talking about?
Yeah, right.
My head started.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (39:40):
Um, but yeah, the the But there was a lot of fear
because that was part of it.
But yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (39:44):
Scribes could go directly into you know making
all of that work too.
They're the ones that that knowthe wording.
Exactly.
So that's it it just moves up,it's just really an upgrade of
everyone, you know.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (39:56):
And just the ability to do it at a different pace.
SPEAKER_03 (40:00):
Well, and we were talking about you know the uh
industrial revolution.
Oh, yeah.
Um obviously that's such a goodthing that you get all of this
invention and things coming upright so that you know we don't
have um, we've just gotten outof um, thank goodness, uh the
the country having more andpeople being used and people
(40:23):
being used as is um and so thenit turns into well now we've got
the need for the machinery,which was awesome.
So then you got machinery comingup, sure.
And that does a lot of thingsthat you know that you would
normally have to use people, andthen that's not good conditions,
right?
Exactly.
So um it ended up happening alsoin in Industrial Revolution
(40:47):
where you've got more and moremachinery, and so that gives
that ability to use less andless people, right?
Which sounds like a bad thing,but we were you know putting
children in there, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (40:57):
Right, exactly, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (40:58):
Because they had little hands and sometimes they
just completely went off youknow, not not the best
conditions either, and so a lotof machines end up doing the
things that are not as um uhsavory, you know, it would not
be something that would, youknow, and and you shouldn't
really be asking human beings toright, let the machine do the
(41:19):
risk, not the person, right?
To to completely use their bodybecause bodies are not machines,
and so bodies are are wonderful,you know, tools for lots of
things, but we're you know,we're not machines.
SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
You can't reinstall a limb, right?
SPEAKER_03 (41:32):
Right, you cannot, you cannot upgrade either,
right?
Um so you know that we need to,you know, we need to eat, we
need to do things that are moreimportant for us, exactly, and
so as machines do things thatyou know maybe aren't the in the
best conditions, then we can dothings that are better for our
(41:55):
conditions.
So, you know, that gives us moreof that creativity.
Exactly.
The greatest thing about thehuman brain is is how creative
we are, and adaptable, and howadaptable, exactly and so that
gives us more humanity.
SPEAKER_00 (42:07):
That's true.
Yeah, that's definitely truth.
And um, and I guess when itcomes with technology and our
relationship with it, again, weneed to realize that we are the,
if you will, the master.
And the the technology is ourassistant.
So if technology is technologyis the assistant, not the star.
(42:29):
You know, we are using it for apurpose, and that's what all
technology is for us.
It is a tool.
And um as we start wrappingthings up here, just have some
thoughts here that we um acouple points that we thought
were kind of uh poignant.
And um and a parent's lovecannot be programmed, but smart
(42:53):
tools can handle the noise andchaos so that there's more time
for family connection.
And yeah, and of course nicelittle quit there, Jay.
Well, it's um it I think it'sthe goal for all of us, and you
know, marketing, especially inthe 50s, with certain things, it
was like, hey, look, you'll havethese products and you'll have
(43:13):
more time.
The unfortunate thing is becausehumans are humans, now that you
have more time, you have moretime for their corporate world.
So um I I I know that people areafraid of losing jobs and things
like that.
I think things are going tochange, and I can't tell you
how, but if you kind of look atall the factors, things will
(43:38):
settle in that perhapstechnology will remove a lot of
the things we're responsiblefor, yet we still will have
responsibilities.
It's not gonna be in the sameway.
But um just like that lastthing, a a child's curiosity
can't be scripted, but tools canopen doors, so discovery never
(44:01):
stops.
And in a future of automation,creativity won't vanish, it will
be our most valuable currency.
So think about that.
Creativity being a currency, andI think this is the part where
we really need to give pause andthink about machines are doing a
(44:22):
lot of things that, you know, alot of the tasks, a lot of the
we would put our brain on.
But we are creative people, andthere's a fear that, oh, the
computer's just gonna doeverything, they're gonna get
rid of artists, they're gonnaget rid of, you know, you name
it.
I mean, we do web design, andit's like, you know, computers
are gonna get rid of that.
Well, there have been platformsleft and right that made
websites for many, many, manyyears.
(44:43):
But I think usually people likethe relationship with who
they're dealing with, notnecessarily this product that
they feel like's gonna do it forthem.
And um and I guess kind oflastly here, the more digital
our world grows, the more ourhumanness becomes the rare and
(45:04):
priceless element.
Don't forget what you add to theequation.
And if you're intimidated bytechnology, realize who you are
and your connections with otherpeople.
SPEAKER_02 (45:15):
I like that.
SPEAKER_00 (45:15):
Yes, you know, because you know it it gets back
to that relationship.
Computers are never going totake that over.
And you know, it's yes, they cando things, sure.
Okay, they can do AI is Googleand steroids, it can do a lot of
research for you.
SPEAKER_03 (45:31):
Um but the complexities of the true human
mind.
SPEAKER_00 (45:35):
The complexity and the human mind is still behind
asking for it to do what itneeds to do, you know.
So part of that becomes, yes, ifthis is the next tool, I need to
learn it because just like youknow, I had to learn how to do a
search engine, I had to learnhow to use a card catalog and
figure out how to find that bookdeep in the library somewhere,
(45:58):
and to realize also gaze at thecard catalog.
Yeah, I mean, it's it the theseare you know it it continues to
evolve.
But and technology will evolve,but we're still human, we still
have heart, we still havecreativity, we still have that
spirit that technology is notgonna be able to take from us.
But if it takes a lot of thisother stuff from us, it's now
(46:22):
empowered us to be better peopleto one another.
So with all that said, uh hereon signing off on Wired
Together, and of course you canfind us on iHeartRadio, Apple
Podcasts, YouTube, your smartTV, Spotify, and uh Amazon
(46:44):
Music, and all of your favoritechannels.
Um, of course, you can find uson our website and uh unplugging
for now.
SPEAKER_01 (46:52):
But always stay tuned.
Welcome to our um podcast.
I was trying to think quicklywhat's the number of our 10th
podcast from Wired Together withum your hosts Jason Winter and
Melanie Winter.
And um today we're planning towe were planning for a while
actually, which is um veryinteresting, to discuss fear.
(00:29):
The fear of what's coming up,the fear with AI, the fear with
um technology.
Of course, we have touched onthis probably more than one
episode, but we promised alittle more in-depth.
So we're this is kind of more ofour in-depth fear, um, and maybe
fear versus freedom.
Um so the cool thing is ironywould have it.
(00:50):
Um I think I'm using ironycorrectly.
SPEAKER_02 (00:52):
Oh, definitely.
English.
SPEAKER_03 (00:53):
Oh no, you're fine.
That um we had two customerscome in, both with concerns of
uh both with fear.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02):
And it's just today.
Like we're trying to sit down todo this and podcast or anything.
SPEAKER_03 (01:07):
So we thought we gotta kind of start with um, you
know, the very common fears.
Um we have not heard this once,but many times, but it was an
interesting reminder becausewe're about to do the podcast.
Sure.
Um, one in particular, she wasnervous to come in.
Yeah.
Uh, you know, it was sometimesyou uh you don't know feel like
(01:31):
you have all the knowledge, allthe jargon, right?
Yeah, and so like how do you howdo I explain what I need?
SPEAKER_00 (01:37):
You know, if I don't know all of the jargon and it's
like I'm not an expert, and sheeven alluded to as far as
technology that some peoplemaybe made her feel like she was
stupid.
I mean, and it's not fair.
I mean, you know, but dismissright.
Well, you know, well, woman, youdon't know what you're talking
about, or whatever.
And that's not fair.
She just has two computers andshe's trying to set up the new
one.
(01:57):
She wants data transferred fromthe old one.
SPEAKER_03 (01:59):
So it's like she knew exactly what she needed,
everything she said to me makessense.
Everything that um, you know,again, what was needed, and and
her jargon was completely fine.
SPEAKER_02 (02:08):
Oh, sure.
SPEAKER_03 (02:09):
Um, but I get the fear, you know.
Um probably not knowing it.
One point you were also uh anEnglish teacher for um middle
school, so you know, you've gota little bit of a background of
not just you know, you have toknow everything.
I'm I'm here to teach, I'm hereto talk about it.
Exactly.
I'm I'm here to understand.
(02:29):
Sure.
And so I uh she immediately feltcomfortable and was um just very
excited that it but I thought itwas very brave of her to let her
know, let us know that she wasshe was afraid to walk in.
SPEAKER_00 (02:40):
I know, yeah.
I'm bad, I'm glad she did, andwe scheduled something, and she
walked away and she's like, Ifeel so much better that I did,
and I I'm proud of her, andthat's you know, sometimes when
you're faced with something likefear, you realize you're
limiting yourself, and it's youknow, but because you know if
you can push through that, thenyou have that freedom for
(03:03):
something new.
SPEAKER_03 (03:04):
Well, um, you know, I one thing I had um learned in
a previous job with um I didwine tastings or do I did for uh
many years is is you did itfull-time, but now yeah, but now
yeah.
And so um but my dear friend,one thing he told me that I felt
(03:25):
like was so important was youknow, you you're gonna fall
into, you know, a lot of peopleknow a lot of different things.
There's so much to know aboutwine.
Oh yeah, you know, differentregions, all of these different
snail, you know, varies.
SPEAKER_00 (03:39):
All the nuances of the you know, yes, everything.
SPEAKER_03 (03:41):
There's so many things.
And once you start to learn, yourealize how little you actually
do know.
And he said the main thing youneed to always remember is
they're walking in not knowingour wines.
Right.
And you know our wines, andthat's why that's important.
SPEAKER_02 (03:55):
That is true.
SPEAKER_03 (03:56):
And so I've repeated him several times because you
know, I think that's soimportant to say, you know,
okay, I I get that you knowthings that are outside of my
scope.
Right.
But you walked in here to learnwhat my scope is, right?
And we teach you that.
So that makes sense.
Um I thought that was really andand that kind of helps with the
fear, especially again,something as large as technology
(04:18):
or something as as expansive andwine's been here for thousands
and thousands of years.
So there's so much to know.
SPEAKER_00 (04:24):
But I mean, nothing larger than space in the
universe.
I remember as a child andlearning, of course, the moon,
the sun, the earth.
We understand that relationshipand all the planets.
Sorry, Pluto, but actually Plutostill exists.
Yep, I know.
I'm team Pluto too.
Pro Pluto.
Yep.
Um, and then all the stars.
(04:44):
And you you know, you kind oflike, okay, I understand how
things work in the universe.
As you study in more depth, yourealize, like you, like you're
saying, I don't know anything.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (04:54):
Now I have enough.
SPEAKER_00 (04:55):
So, but I think with any um industry, any topic, you
have a certain level you get towhere it's like, all right, I
get this.
You take that next step, andthen all of a sudden you have
fear.
You're like, maybe I don'tunderstand this at all.
But you can't forget what you doknow, and also you don't need to
know it all.
You know, you just need tocontinue to navigate through it
(05:17):
and learn more.
SPEAKER_03 (05:17):
The healthcare system, you have specialties,
you know, right, exactly.
You have the whole you know,everything and everything are
working.
SPEAKER_00 (05:23):
Yeah, it would be unfair to expect that, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (05:25):
So, you know, that that's one thing is you know,
fear of not knowing enough.
Um, and the the other one thatkind of leans into a little bit
more of our topic is we had a umclient that was just went out
and right out and said, youknow, are you afraid of AI?
SPEAKER_02 (05:43):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (05:44):
And so um if I I immediately started to laugh
because I knew my topic for fortoday.
So right.
SPEAKER_00 (05:51):
So I'm like, okay, the person here chuckling over
there, finishing up onsomething, she can write around.
I'm like, she's gonna comearound and talk because the
irony of it again was we're justabout to do a podcast on it, and
uh hope you're listening.
So you asked.
SPEAKER_03 (06:06):
Um But yeah, that you want to talk about what that
was, or was it just as far as sokind of you know, when something
can be made up so quickly, youknow, um then you start to get
into what's real.
SPEAKER_02 (06:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (06:21):
And so um which is very interesting, you know, it
kind of leans into you know yourfake news, um, you know, your
you know, your memes that aren'teven real, you know, right,
exactly.
It's like videos, whole videos,or even actual truth.
SPEAKER_00 (06:35):
Um and we see a lot in social media and we've
learned to be cautious.
SPEAKER_03 (06:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
That if we see something, it may not be real.
SPEAKER_03 (06:42):
So what I told her was um it well, what uh Jason
told her, which was a reallygood point, is you know, it now
that we know more, we are havingmore of a critical eye.
Yeah, we're starting to learn.
We're starting to see that okay,this may not always be true.
Right.
Um, even though you're lookingat it with your eyes, you know,
it's still not necessarily true.
(07:03):
And so I said that you know, my13 and 11-year-old were, you
know, um what I was showing themsomething, I think it was a
video.
SPEAKER_00 (07:11):
It was video, well, yeah, last night immediately.
SPEAKER_03 (07:13):
It took almost no time at all.
Both of them went, that's AI.
SPEAKER_00 (07:17):
And we're like and we're like, okay, how do you
know that?
Right.
And they're like, all right,watch.
You know, like right here.
And it was something about themovement's moved at the exact
same thing.
There's something that be thatyour eye realizes all that.
SPEAKER_03 (07:31):
Yeah, see what they had a better critical eye than I
did.
Right.
I didn't even notice.
SPEAKER_00 (07:35):
Didn't know it's how unnatural it was.
SPEAKER_03 (07:36):
They did, they saw the unnatural movement, and then
they um that seemed natural tome because it just it was of
natural movement.
SPEAKER_00 (07:42):
Right, but it's a big picture.
You're looking at something andyou're not, but apparently they
are seeing enough, just likesome other people.
I mean, it wasn't that long agowhen AI would make images and
things like that that we wouldall just joke and say, oh, it's
AI.
Look, that person has sixfingers.
I mean, AI had a hard time withfingers um in image creation,
(08:05):
among other oddities, but withmore iterations, it is getting
better.
And um, you know, but there'llbe other things too.
You know, as soon as you startseeing leaps going forward,
there's always going to be thatreminder of, oh, yeah, okay.
I thought you were here, but youI mean, like our AI co-host
who's on vacation again, I guesswe'll get the story, but we know
(08:29):
um our AI co-host, you know, itslips up, gets silly, voice
cracks, or whatever.
We don't understand what's goingon.
SPEAKER_03 (08:35):
And um every once in a while he sounds like helium is
right, is it?
SPEAKER_00 (08:40):
Is it like, did you hear that?
SPEAKER_03 (08:43):
But um, he is not flawless.
Nope.
But you know, that is the thenature of it.
Technology is not flawless.
No, of course not.
It's gonna have its flaws.
SPEAKER_00 (08:53):
It's constantly in a state of evolution.
SPEAKER_03 (08:54):
And and I think having a critical eye um early
is extremely important, and andjust having a critical eye at
any point, you know, if ifsomething doesn't seem like it
should be real, it probablyisn't, you know.
And so we we are our senses arealways, you know, are very often
m mistaking something, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (09:15):
So and having a critical eye is important
because it it can help you haveconfidence a little bit more of
okay, I don't need to know itnecessarily, but I know what to
look for in what I don'tunderstand.
And you know, it's technology asa whole is really something that
(09:37):
we need to teach ourselves andalso teach our children.
SPEAKER_03 (09:42):
Right.
Well, that goes into kind of thefirst part of the actual true
episode that we were uh puttingtogether is that you know
sometimes the fear is the notknowing and it's the not
understanding.
Um and that is the the thingthat freedom can come from is
being able to learn it, beingable to know it.
(10:02):
Um, that does give you enough umcomfort level.
And so it's it's not to stayaway.
I don't know it, so I'm scaredof it, and I want to stay away.
Sometimes we don't really getthat choice.
And so it's um maybe a littlemore in maybe I need to
understand it, maybe I need moreclarity, um, work with it
instead of against it.
SPEAKER_01 (10:23):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (10:24):
Um and so you know that can be helpful in as a tool
for creativity, for expression,for small tasks.
If we if we open ourselves up toit and instead of um you know,
fearing.
SPEAKER_02 (10:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:38):
And so kind of going on that is, you know, fear is we
should always realize that fearis control.
So anytime we feel fear, thereis a reason for it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:50):
You want to regain that control.
Right.
Because you feel like, you know,this may either take something
from you or something thatyou're not able to harness and
feel comfortable with.
SPEAKER_03 (10:59):
Right.
So I kind of kind of consider italmost a self-fulfilling
prophecy.
It's the fear is um fear willstart to control you, and so
then you want more control overit, and it controls you more,
and it's actually gives you thereason to have fear to begin
with, so it's almost like it's aloop.
(11:20):
It's a circle, yeah.
Right?
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
Yep, definitely is.
SPEAKER_03 (11:25):
Um, and so you know, we've got a couple of biggies of
what this fear is is creating.
And so one thing is, you know,in teaching our children, uh,
one of the biggest things forparents is what do I embrace
about technology and what do Iuh pull away.
SPEAKER_00 (11:41):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (11:42):
And so um the way we have a tendency to see it is you
know, you don't hand a16-year-old car keys and just
say, you know, best of luck.
SPEAKER_00 (11:52):
No, you know, that is a especially if they're on
your insurance.
SPEAKER_03 (11:55):
That's that's a a big machine that you, you know,
any person that is going tooperate that machine has got to
have some knowledge of whatthey're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (12:05):
Yeah, they need the training, right?
SPEAKER_03 (12:08):
Not everybody can be as lucky to live kind of in a
more open space, but we do, youknow, try to teach our kids a
lot earlier here in rural areas,and so you know, go ahead as
soon as you're tall enough tobreach, yep, drive in the field,
do whatever.
Yes, drive in the field.
So um be able to we have um youknow tried to make sure that
(12:28):
when we go into releasing thatum autonomy to the child that
they have some understanding ofwhat they're doing.
So you you do want, you know,and you know, even the law says
they should be driving with anactual responsible adult.
SPEAKER_02 (12:46):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (12:46):
And you know, most parents are gonna be wanting to
be that person and wanting to bethe adult that's that's driving,
you know, with the child,teaching them things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (12:56):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (12:56):
Well, technology's like exactly the same way.
You don't hand them the keys.
Yeah, you know, they whenthey're not developed well
enough to have all of the keys,right?
You know, and as they learn,sure, you have more freedoms,
but you know, they should alwaysbe uh taught that this is a
(13:17):
privilege to have things thatare make life easier to do task
and communicate, but we can alsoyou know not have that privilege
if we don't treat it correctlyand we don't develop with it and
we don't learn it.
But I mean yeah, um learningtechnology has been very
important in the world.
SPEAKER_00 (13:37):
Which technology is a tool, so is a car.
And if you're teaching themabout it, you obviously realize
if they have their phone orsomething like that, you can't
be over the shoulder everysecond.
You can't be in the car withthem every second.
So it's not just teaching themhow to do it, it's also
teaching, you know, the theresponsibilities and you know
(13:58):
the limitations and you know thescenarios beyond, you know,
you're hoping to prepare themfor things that you know you
may, you know, not know how toexperience or you know, or have
experienced rather.
Because I mean the world doeschange, right and the kids are
involved in things that are muchmore elaborate than maybe we're
(14:20):
used to.
SPEAKER_03 (14:21):
Right.
And so it's trying to beoutright with them, you know,
try to make sure that theyunderstand again all the things
that can be fake.
Um somebody that randomly talksto you, you know, that our kids
know not to talk to anybody thatis not someone they know in real
life.
Yeah.
And so that is extremelyimportant to us.
(14:42):
Um, and so that is you know togo ahead and let them know.
Yeah, people aren't what theysay they are.
SPEAKER_00 (14:51):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (14:51):
So you don't have you you can't believe everybody.
SPEAKER_00 (14:54):
Right, exactly.
And if they gotten like a randomtext before, and usually it's
like always a scam, you know,your car warranty or health
insurance, something like that,and you're like, I got this
text, and they're letting usknow.
And it's like, yep, just goahead and report, delete,
whatever.
You know, but anytime they getsomething, it's like we've we've
drilled it into them, you know,hey, look, don't be afraid to
(15:15):
come to us because we don't wantthem to be in a situation if
they're afraid to come to us,then you know, something you
know that goes against thelearning process and you know
could get you in a situation.
SPEAKER_03 (15:25):
Right.
So if you teach no fear, youknow, exactly.
Yeah, be like, hey, you know,you're not gonna know
everything, so here's why I'mhere.
SPEAKER_00 (15:31):
Exactly, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:32):
Um, I'd rather that you didn't, you know, you
realize you don't knoweverything and come to me.
SPEAKER_02 (15:36):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (15:38):
Um so we also kind of you know, fear of of collapse
um is is been really big lately.
Oh yeah.
Um you know, just uh everythingis going to kind of go down, you
know, your Y2K situation virusesand viruses and um so you know
(16:04):
the those kind of like moreexplosive fears, um, you know,
that is kind of that way of ofum creating that that fear on
more of a biblical proportion ofthe end of the of the world and
that sort of thing.
The plague.
You know, and and I I don't wantto treat that lightly, but you
(16:28):
know, there is again youremember the Y2K scare, and so
you know, as far as when thatall of that happened, backups
weren't all that big a deal andstuff like that.
So we've gotten a little more umsmart about it.
A lot of times we're gonna haveum fallbacks that bring us into
being a little smarter next timeand being able to overcome
(16:51):
right.
And so, you know, um backupsnowadays are everything, you
know.
We've got servers all over theyeah, we've got a lot of cloud
computing and things like that.
SPEAKER_00 (17:01):
But I mean it's um it of course back in Y2K, it the
fear of everything going down,banking, all my information be
lost, and you know, gottaremember, sometimes some of
these events may be while theymight be truth to it, they're
they are hyped, as we realizewith this.
(17:21):
But it's to get us to the nextstage of where things are going,
and now everyone's on board.
Wait, because we experiencedthat, now we must accept this
next thing.
So, but anyway, what was thewording?
Problem reaction solution.
SPEAKER_03 (17:37):
Problem reaction solution.
Yeah, you create the problem,yeah.
The then you have the resultingreaction reaction, and then the
solution which you've alreadycreated from the problem, right?
You already knew is is doledout.
So it's a lot of that isorchestrated, a lot of that is
you know your Orson Wells kindof situations.
Oh, yeah, you know, oh you know,the aliens have landed, and you
(17:59):
know it's kind of like when thepatent for antivirus software is
already there before weexperience viruses.
Right.
It's convenient, it was veryconvenient moving along.
SPEAKER_00 (18:11):
Um we won't speak of them.
We did.
SPEAKER_03 (18:16):
Um and so you know, a lot of this is fear is
typically coming from um how weeducate ourselves, and so you
know, it's it's not that strangeto, you know, and you're
starting to learn to walk andthings like that.
You're gonna of course fall,then you fear to fall, so you
(18:37):
learn to walk better.
Right.
I need to be more careful goingin this.
Um, you know, to me personally,I think it's a very healthy fear
to fear spiders because what youknow, there is one out there
that might kill you.
SPEAKER_00 (18:51):
Well, that is definitely in Australia.
SPEAKER_03 (18:54):
But well, we had the Black Widow.
SPEAKER_00 (18:56):
Oh, I know, and I know it's a lot less likely, but
I know, but I get it though.
It's good to have a fear becausethen you know you see something
and you're cautious, you're notlike, oh, come here, let me pet
you.
SPEAKER_03 (19:06):
You know, it's you know, and I think that's what we
tend to do, is and what I do,and probably wrong.
Um, but you know, the BlackWidow could kill you.
Um, but all spiders can't.
Right.
So we do have to kind of youknow keep that in mind when we
have fear.
SPEAKER_01 (19:25):
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (19:25):
Of course we're gonna fear spiders, but they
really aren't all about to setup too.
They don't they don't even allhave venom.
No, you know, then they'repretty much just living their
lives, you know, regular webdesigners, hanging out.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
Web designers, yeah.
I get it, and I heard that.
SPEAKER_03 (19:43):
Yeah, so um oh that you know, it we're also very I
find it very interesting in ineducation.
One thing we get taught in whenit comes to fear is fearing
what's next.
SPEAKER_02 (19:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:58):
Um, I can't tell you how many times I've um in a
classroom.
Well, you know it's gonna beworse next year.
Oh, yeah.
You're just you're not gonnahave it as lovely as you have it
this year because it's gonna beso much worse next year.
Next year you're gonna be inmiddle school, it's gonna be so
much worse.
And and next year you're gonnabe in high school, it's gonna
be, you know, right, and collegeisn't gonna, you know, the gonna
(20:21):
hold your hand.
Oh, I know.
And it's like, okay.
So so I try to remember remindum every single child I actually
meet that talks about that.
Um, so not just my own children,but other people's children.
It's like I just want to giveyou a secret.
SPEAKER_00 (20:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (20:40):
They tell you that.
But every year I have been inthat they tell me that it's
always better the next year.
SPEAKER_00 (20:48):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (20:49):
Because the next year you not only have you know,
you get a little less handheld.
SPEAKER_00 (20:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (20:55):
Which is great, you know, because then you get a
little more freedom.
SPEAKER_00 (20:58):
True.
That is true, you get morefreedom.
SPEAKER_03 (21:00):
So you kind of you go into a little more freedom, a
little more freedom, a littlemore freedom, a lot more
freedom.
Yeah, you know, and then it'slike, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (21:07):
But you also don't anticipate your own growth that
took place.
Like right now, I don't knowthis.
But a year from now, wow, lookwhere I've come.
SPEAKER_03 (21:14):
So it seems so uh ridiculous to me to teach
children that it's always gonnabe worse.
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:20):
And it's like, don't, don't pay attention.
They do that, and I don't knowwhy.
I remember, but I want you toknow that it's actually always
better.
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
Yeah.
Um, in the school system I wasin, our classrooms were kind of
divided by partitions.
So you had like four classes inthis main room, let's let's say.
So it's kind of like you know, aone-room schoolhouse, but not.
And so I remember in thirdgrade, we're talking about
multiplication, and we startedgetting into division.
(21:48):
But every now and then I couldhear the fourth grade teacher
right across the partitiongetting into long division, all
this kind of stuff.
And I remember sitting there,just like you're talking about,
thinking, I'm never gonna beable to do that.
I mean, I'm listening to them doit, and you know, and I'm like,
that's next year, I'm gonna bedead.
Uh, you know, I can't do it.
But then when fourth grade cameabout, and I still had this in
(22:09):
my memory when I started fourthgrade, and I realized uh within
that first two weeks of school,I'm like, okay, I I I do know
this, and it that kind of stuckwith me in what you're talking
about because I'm like, okay,every year, you know, we don't
we're not often realizing howfar we have come with things,
but there's always that fear ofI'm not gonna be able to.
SPEAKER_02 (22:31):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:31):
But at whatever age you are right now, look at how
old you are right now, what haveyou accomplished?
What do you real what would youhave stopped yourself from if
you know you didn't allowyourself to exact if you knew
the hill you had to climb,exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (22:47):
Yeah, so the saying I hear so many adults say, Oh,
just wait till you're an adult.
Oh, oh, just wait till you're anadult.
Yeah, that's and you can havetoo many adults say that to you.
SPEAKER_00 (22:58):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (22:59):
To the point it becomes so fearful to become an
adult.
SPEAKER_02 (23:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (23:04):
And I I try to, you know, remind my children when
when adults say that, it's like,guys, I actually like being an
adult so much better.
SPEAKER_02 (23:14):
Yeah.
Again, getting back to free.
SPEAKER_03 (23:16):
I get what they're saying.
I'm not saying that that's wrongwhat they're saying, but don't
fear it.
Right.
Because actually you're gonna bean adult a lot longer than a
child's.
Yeah, we hope.
Embrace your childhood, enjoyyour childhood.
Don't do it with fear becauseyou know what?
Adulting is fun too.
That's right.
I have enjoyed being an adult.
SPEAKER_00 (23:36):
And we don't want to minimize anyone's problems, you
know.
I mean, kids are going through,you know, the quote unquote like
technology technologicalplayground of life, you know,
but then before the you know,beta release and of you know
software.
So it's but there is still alearning process that we can't
(23:56):
say, oh, just wait till you gethere, you know.
This is valuable too.
It's not like wait until youturn 18, now I'll start teaching
you things.
Now you're an adult, here areproblems.
Now let's bring up, you know,conflict resolution.
SPEAKER_03 (24:09):
You know, right.
It's like that should be waybefore.
SPEAKER_00 (24:12):
Conflict resolution unlocked.
SPEAKER_03 (24:14):
Oh my gosh.
No.
So, you know, I think that um Ithink we get taught this
continual envisioning of fear,you know, fear of we're not
gonna ever know enough.
Um fear that the things that wedon't know about is gonna, you
(24:35):
know, just completely take usover and that kind of thing.
And and so, you know, that um alot of times it also turns into
kind of fear of messing up, fearof failure, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:49):
No, that's very common.
SPEAKER_03 (24:50):
And so, you know, that's that's definitely with
the technology, people don'twant to touch it.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
Yeah, well, I didn't want to do anything, I thought
it was mess it up.
Yeah, yeah, and it's like yeah,just like all of us, yeah, of
course.
SPEAKER_03 (25:02):
And and so, you know, the we we named it, we
decided to name it glitchhappens.
SPEAKER_00 (25:08):
Yep, glitch happens, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (25:09):
So, you know, sometimes glitch-ups happen, and
we become afraid of fixing, uhso as opposed to like knowing
that technology is almost alwaysfixable, not always, but yeah,
there are a lot of times um youreally didn't lose what you
thought you lost.
Oh, yeah, you know, that kind ofthing.
(25:30):
It's it's in there somewhere,and and I think a lot of this is
um the the earlier age umcomputing where you actually
could lose something uh almostentirely computers make very
fast accuracy mistakes, right?
And you could lose the wholething.
Um nowadays it is extremelydifferent, and so there is a lot
(25:52):
of a there are a lot ofsafeguards that have been built
in.
Safeguards that have been putinto place because we've lost so
much in the past, you know.
The last thing you want is likeright before launch for NASA to
completely lose all of thecomputing.
SPEAKER_00 (26:04):
I was gonna say losing your photo album, yes,
that is very sad, especially.
But for a billion dollar companyto have lost their entire, you
know, next software, you know,release that you know someone
said, How do we prevent this?
Right.
And they built it in.
SPEAKER_03 (26:20):
So there's a lot more.
Um, and so one thing you know,we we've been able to do when it
comes to the computer repairpart of what we do is is
recovery.
And you'd be surprised whatyou're actually able to recover
that just seem completely lost.
SPEAKER_00 (26:36):
Just because you can't get to it don't mean it's
not there.
Right.
And that's kind of you know,it's behind that door, you know,
but that's not an option for meright now.
SPEAKER_03 (26:44):
And you know, so that that realization of I can
find it, even if I don't knowexactly how to just yet, I can
find it.
Right.
Um, I think is it been reallyhelpful for other people.
Yeah, I think so.
If nothing else, you know, I canat least call up Jason and and
he can figure out how to findit.
SPEAKER_02 (27:03):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (27:03):
Um, and you know, it's it's been helpful as far as
a teaching tool, you know.
Um I I do love that my girls cantroubleshoot um because they
they're not as afraid of makingthe mistakes.
No.
And so really no.
And so they do get a lot of umlike my parents will watch them
do something and and fix it.
(27:24):
Right.
And, you know, and it's like,whoa, how were they able to do
that?
Right.
And it's like, well, it's reallynot necessarily knowing how to
troubleshoot as much as it isbeing confident, knowing that
you you can't screw it up withso much.
SPEAKER_00 (27:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (27:39):
So then they play with it and then they know how
to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (27:42):
And you recognize the patterns, and you think
being in a household of peoplethat work in a technology
business, that the child mighthear you do it, and they throw
us to remote.
When in fact, they don't.
You know, they go ahead andclick, click, click, click, all
right, I got it.
SPEAKER_03 (27:53):
Oh, you know, they often show us what to do.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (27:56):
Sometimes I'm yeah, it's another story.
I'll get into the pip anyway.
Hang on to that.
Um, but yeah, but you know, it'snot like, oh, we know and I
don't.
It because again, well, we'revery careful to make sure, all
right, you try, you think, you,you know, but you know, their
troubleshooting has just comethrough a lot of their own
exploration and confidence thatthey've built in that.
So, but yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:17):
And you know, that they're not perfect people by
any means.
This is mainly just talkingabout how we are trying to, you
know, to reduce fear oftechnology.
Yes.
We're um along this these kindof lines.
SPEAKER_02 (28:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:37):
So and it pretty much is you know exactly what is
used against us when we start torealize um or or hang too much
onto fear.
We we we create this this worldof fear.
Um, of course, we can talk aboutfear for probably hours when it
(29:01):
comes to everything that is, youknow, um within the world and
all that.
This is really just beingtechnologically based.
So, you know, one of the biggestfears is of course scams.
SPEAKER_00 (29:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:11):
And that is actually exactly what they want you to
have.
SPEAKER_00 (29:14):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (29:15):
Scammers want that um the fear, yeah, because
that's what works, is how theycan actually stop manipulate you
to yeah, and you'll stopthinking, and then you move
forward.
Yeah, you might not think of itquite as critically, yeah,
because now they've given you somuch fear.
So uh a lot of scammer tacticsare used to uh create fear.
(29:36):
Yeah, if you don't do this now,you know, this urgency, yep,
they create urgency for sure.
You do a talk on scamming a lot,yeah, and one of the main
things, you know, is is goingthrough a bulleted list of how
do you know it's a scam, and oneof those is urgency.
Yeah, you know, if you don't dothis now, you know, we're we're
gonna you know shut the wholething down, and now you've
(29:57):
gotten out and that kind ofthing.
So it's it's one.
Of those tools that is used, sowhen you know that you don't
have as much to fear as youthink, then there is that you
know, okay, if they're puttingout some urgency, I need to see
if I need to do this in twohours, right?
SPEAKER_00 (30:17):
And I got a bill for a product I don't even own, and
then it should be a you know,heads up.
And I mean, I could I could talktwo hours on this, but it's uh
call the number.
SPEAKER_03 (30:30):
Right.
Most big companies out there,you know, that you're working
with, you know, whether it's anantivirus company, right, um,
your software company oranything like that, they are
massive.
Oh, yeah.
They're not urgent at all.
SPEAKER_00 (30:44):
Oh no, no.
SPEAKER_03 (30:45):
Your little whatever bill, uh Dominion, they don't do
anything with power in thestate.
SPEAKER_00 (30:49):
Yeah, diminish, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (30:51):
They are not going to jump down your throat with
urgency on a bill.
They want you to know.
SPEAKER_00 (30:58):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (30:59):
But they're not gonna do that urgency thing,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (31:02):
Most of these companies have said we're not
gonna reach out to you.
SPEAKER_03 (31:05):
And they would never do something like that too.
They're customers.
You are technically theircustomers.
Yeah, most companies are notgonna do that.
So that is a definite that's ascammer if if urgency has been
put in place.
SPEAKER_00 (31:17):
Yeah.
I think a big part of it is, youknow, uh anyone can be caught.
I mean, we I would say we've allbeen scammed.
I've been scammed, and you know,it's just you sometimes get
caught off guard, just like thatphone call of someone, and
you're just not in the rightmindset to really talk to them,
and you man, maybe it was rude.
You know, it's but you caughtoff guard and you think it's a
(31:39):
problem because oftentimes ascammer is reaching out with
something, and um then you reactto that again, problem reaction
solution.
So they send you a problem, yourcredit card was just charged$599
for whatever this thing, andthen you go, oh no, you call the
(32:01):
number.
Now that scammer who is talkingto you very professionally, and
you know, I'm gonna help youthrough this, don't you worry.
I mean, why are they so nice?
Because they're making money offof this, unfortunately, and
they're you know, then whathappens there is they get you to
go through a process to fix theproblem that actually never
(32:22):
existed.
Because again, at email, youweren't, you know, actually
charged that.
Then you're letting the scammerin to then do the damage.
So it's um, I remember somebodywas here one time and they were
like, Why do these people dothis?
Why don't they get a job?
And I was like, they're making alot more money than I am.
I mean, and it's unfortunate.
(32:42):
I've had banks call me to helpwith clients and all that, and
I, you know, it it's we see moreof this than you know we would
want to.
But again, going back to or thetopic, it all starts with fear
because you make a reaction tosomething because you're afraid.
What if I don't?
(33:03):
Um, so yeah, it's yeah, it'sthat that's a big thing though.
SPEAKER_03 (33:07):
Right.
And always remember again, thesecompanies will not actually do
the steeds.
SPEAKER_00 (33:11):
No, and that that's what you're saying with as far
as these bigger name companies,and uh no one reads the terms of
service, I know that, but Imean, if you look at the bottom
of many of their emails, theywill say we are not going to
reach out for sensitiveinformation.
If you get contacted from us,please make sure that you reach
out to us through our number.
Do not call the number providedto you.
(33:31):
You know, it's I mean, I I couldrattle off the entire script,
but and um, and even though Iknow this, I can't be a hundred
percent sure that I won't bescammed in the future.
Because again, if donecorrectly, don't change tactics.
If they yeah, they'll changethey they evolve.
I've seen the evolution and howI need to fight the uh the
viruses and the malware and howthe way intrusions, it's
(33:54):
evolved, and you have to kind ofread it and figure it out.
But yeah, they'll they'll moveon when it when it stops
working, they'll figuresomething else out.
Not that you need to be afraid,but you need to be cautious and
you just need to be open andjust you know, don't don't
dismiss trying to learn it more,yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (34:14):
So and call your friendly computer repair.
SPEAKER_00 (34:17):
Oh yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's um it can't tellyou how many times people reach
out to me.
Uh sometimes I'll get an emailor a text, is this legit?
I'm looking like nope, throw itaway, or whatever, you know, and
and and it's not reallybothering me at all, you know.
It's just I'd I'd rather I'drather the contact be that than
(34:40):
I'm out twenty thousand dollars.
Can you, you know, the bank haslocked everything on my computer
until you fix it.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (34:52):
But so yeah, we've um trying to move in, okay.
We've discussed enough of thefear.
Right.
So why does this give us um whydoes fear change into knowing
lead to freedom?
(35:12):
And so this is where we're, youknow, we see a lot of technology
and and uh the way things arekind of shaping themselves as
its own freedom.
Yeah.
Um I know I was just discussingwith um dear friend of mine.
We were, you know, both talkingabout housework and stuff like
(35:33):
that, and trying to get thingsdone and everything, and I had
everything running and and wasable to step away and have a
conversation with her.
SPEAKER_00 (35:40):
Right.
Because all the machines wererunning, you know, and your
droids were working for you.
SPEAKER_03 (35:46):
And I'm like, I do not want to go back in time at
all.
Right, exactly.
I love the fact that I can throwclothes in there and they just
go, I can put dishes in thedishwasher, right?
And it goes, I you know,technology is also the
dishwasher and the um the dryer,exactly, yeah, the the coffee
pot.
This is all technology, and soat one point, you know, people
(36:09):
were you know unsure of all ofthese things, but well, what how
do I operate this?
What do I do?
You know, I remember grandmahaving such a hard time with the
microwave.
SPEAKER_00 (36:19):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (36:20):
It's like I I don't know, I just don't like it.
SPEAKER_00 (36:23):
Well, it's just new and fancy.
SPEAKER_03 (36:24):
Grandma, all you gotta do is push a few buttons
and that's it.
And nope, nope, I'm not doingit.
Right, which I get for grandma,but um she just had her way and
she was gonna do it her thing.
That's right.
But you know, as far as youknow, remembering that all of
these things really are just newtechnologies um that that I
dearly love.
I dearly love the the freedomthat it offers.
SPEAKER_00 (36:46):
So sure, exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (36:48):
Now if we learn to like fold and put away at the
same time, yeah, yeah, do it.
SPEAKER_00 (36:53):
Yeah, that definitely can't wait for that
upgrade.
But um, so it's uh I guesscontinuing with that, um the AI
keeps coming up as a topic, ofcourse, with technology because
that I mean that is the latest,you know, uh buzzword, if you
(37:15):
will.
SPEAKER_03 (37:15):
Buzzword.
SPEAKER_00 (37:16):
Buzzword.
SPEAKER_03 (37:17):
It's the buzzword that's you know all set up to to
end us.
SPEAKER_00 (37:21):
Yeah, it's I mean, we have kind of flashbacks to
Terminator and um 2001 SpaceX.
No, they have not, but they theythey've kind of like made
prepared us, maybe, if that'sthe right word.
SPEAKER_03 (37:33):
Yeah, critical thinking, that's great.
SPEAKER_00 (37:34):
Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (37:35):
Critical thinking is wonderful.
SPEAKER_00 (37:36):
Um but you know, but one of the biggest things is it
AI isn't magic, and I know itlooks like it, because it's
like, oh my gosh.
You know, we have seen actuallyabout two, two, two and a half
years ago for the most part, itbecoming getting into the
households and usage, um a biguh jump in what technology is
(38:01):
able to offer us.
I mean, if you think aboutautocorrect or what do you call
it, suggestive whatever, like inGoogle when you start typing
something and it finishes yourphrase or sentence, technically
that is AI.
And while useful or not,definitely not autocorrect, um
we've seen this big jump in whatAI is doing.
(38:22):
So while it looks like magic,it's just pattern recognition
that is trained on data.
But we've kind of unlocked theamount of resources given to it.
So almost overnight we have felta shock, which again, it can be
fear, it can be excitement, andsometimes both.
(38:43):
And um, but it's not the firsttime that we have had um yeah, I
know we've talked about in aprevious episode, like the
printing press, and how I mean,if you think about it, when the
printing press came about, um,there was a lot of fear, there
was a lot of okay, this is notnatural, this machine is
(39:03):
printing this book.
Didn't help that the Bible was,you know, very much involved in
that.
But these scribes that handwrote stuff for thousands of
years, um, you know, it thething is uh that it's not that
we destroyed the scribes.
With the printing press, we madeeducation more widespread.
SPEAKER_03 (39:26):
Right.
People could read the Bible intheir own language with that.
That's what you meant by the theway you said that.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, okay.
It's like when you're like, whatare you talking about?
Yeah, right.
My head started.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (39:40):
Um, but yeah, the the But there was a lot of fear
because that was part of it.
But yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (39:44):
Scribes could go directly into you know making
all of that work too.
They're the ones that that knowthe wording.
Exactly.
So that's it it just moves up,it's just really an upgrade of
everyone, you know.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (39:56):
And just the ability to do it at a different pace.
SPEAKER_03 (40:00):
Well, and we were talking about you know the uh
industrial revolution.
Oh, yeah.
Um obviously that's such a goodthing that you get all of this
invention and things coming upright so that you know we don't
have um, we've just gotten outof um, thank goodness, uh the
the country having more andpeople being used and people
(40:23):
being used as is um and so thenit turns into well now we've got
the need for the machinery,which was awesome.
So then you got machinery comingup, sure.
And that does a lot of thingsthat you know that you would
normally have to use people, andthen that's not good conditions,
right?
Exactly.
So um it ended up happening alsoin in Industrial Revolution
(40:47):
where you've got more and moremachinery, and so that gives
that ability to use less andless people, right?
Which sounds like a bad thing,but we were you know putting
children in there, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (40:57):
Right, exactly, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (40:58):
Because they had little hands and sometimes they
just completely went off youknow, not not the best
conditions either, and so a lotof machines end up doing the
things that are not as um uhsavory, you know, it would not
be something that would, youknow, and and you shouldn't
really be asking human beings toright, let the machine do the
(41:19):
risk, not the person, right?
To to completely use their bodybecause bodies are not machines,
and so bodies are are wonderful,you know, tools for lots of
things, but we're you know,we're not machines.
SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
You can't reinstall a limb, right?
SPEAKER_03 (41:32):
Right, you cannot, you cannot upgrade either,
right?
Um so you know that we need to,you know, we need to eat, we
need to do things that are moreimportant for us, exactly, and
so as machines do things thatyou know maybe aren't the in the
best conditions, then we can dothings that are better for our
(41:55):
conditions.
So, you know, that gives us moreof that creativity.
Exactly.
The greatest thing about thehuman brain is is how creative
we are, and adaptable, and howadaptable, exactly and so that
gives us more humanity.
SPEAKER_00 (42:07):
That's true.
Yeah, that's definitely truth.
And um, and I guess when itcomes with technology and our
relationship with it, again, weneed to realize that we are the,
if you will, the master.
And the the technology is ourassistant.
So if technology is technologyis the assistant, not the star.
(42:29):
You know, we are using it for apurpose, and that's what all
technology is for us.
It is a tool.
And um as we start wrappingthings up here, just have some
thoughts here that we um acouple points that we thought
were kind of uh poignant.
And um and a parent's lovecannot be programmed, but smart
(42:53):
tools can handle the noise andchaos so that there's more time
for family connection.
And yeah, and of course nicelittle quit there, Jay.
Well, it's um it I think it'sthe goal for all of us, and you
know, marketing, especially inthe 50s, with certain things, it
was like, hey, look, you'll havethese products and you'll have
(43:13):
more time.
The unfortunate thing is becausehumans are humans, now that you
have more time, you have moretime for their corporate world.
So um I I I know that people areafraid of losing jobs and things
like that.
I think things are going tochange, and I can't tell you
how, but if you kind of look atall the factors, things will
(43:38):
settle in that perhapstechnology will remove a lot of
the things we're responsiblefor, yet we still will have
responsibilities.
It's not gonna be in the sameway.
But um just like that lastthing, a a child's curiosity
can't be scripted, but tools canopen doors, so discovery never
(44:01):
stops.
And in a future of automation,creativity won't vanish, it will
be our most valuable currency.
So think about that.
Creativity being a currency, andI think this is the part where
we really need to give pause andthink about machines are doing a
(44:22):
lot of things that, you know, alot of the tasks, a lot of the
we would put our brain on.
But we are creative people, andthere's a fear that, oh, the
computer's just gonna doeverything, they're gonna get
rid of artists, they're gonnaget rid of, you know, you name
it.
I mean, we do web design, andit's like, you know, computers
are gonna get rid of that.
Well, there have been platformsleft and right that made
websites for many, many, manyyears.
(44:43):
But I think usually people likethe relationship with who
they're dealing with, notnecessarily this product that
they feel like's gonna do it forthem.
And um and I guess kind oflastly here, the more digital
our world grows, the more ourhumanness becomes the rare and
(45:04):
priceless element.
Don't forget what you add to theequation.
And if you're intimidated bytechnology, realize who you are
and your connections with otherpeople.
SPEAKER_02 (45:15):
I like that.
SPEAKER_00 (45:15):
Yes, you know, because you know it it gets back
to that relationship.
Computers are never going totake that over.
And you know, it's yes, they cando things, sure.
Okay, they can do AI is Googleand steroids, it can do a lot of
research for you.
SPEAKER_03 (45:31):
Um but the complexities of the true human
mind.
SPEAKER_00 (45:35):
The complexity and the human mind is still behind
asking for it to do what itneeds to do, you know.
So part of that becomes, yes, ifthis is the next tool, I need to
learn it because just like youknow, I had to learn how to do a
search engine, I had to learnhow to use a card catalog and
figure out how to find that bookdeep in the library somewhere,
(45:58):
and to realize also gaze at thecard catalog.
Yeah, I mean, it's it the theseare you know it it continues to
evolve.
But and technology will evolve,but we're still human, we still
have heart, we still havecreativity, we still have that
spirit that technology is notgonna be able to take from us.
But if it takes a lot of thisother stuff from us, it's now
(46:22):
empowered us to be better peopleto one another.
So with all that said, uh hereon signing off on Wired
Together, and of course you canfind us on iHeartRadio, Apple
Podcasts, YouTube, your smartTV, Spotify, and uh Amazon
(46:44):
Music, and all of your favoritechannels.
Um, of course, you can find uson our website and uh unplugging
for now.
SPEAKER_01 (46:52):
But always stay tuned.
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