Episode Transcript
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Rob (00:11):
Hello and welcome to the
Wiser podcast.
I'm Rob Bialostocki.
Great to be with you again.
I really enjoy having theseone-way chats, but I imagine
it's more like a two-wayconversation.
You know, if you're at allinterested in growing as a
person, even in your 50s, 60sand beyond, well, a cursory
(00:32):
glance across places where younormally find advice on life and
work, like, for example,linkedin or Substack or YouTube,
or in the millions of books ande-books on offer, that could
leave you pretty confused onwhat the best approach is for
any kind of endeavor.
And I felt like that too, andI've come up with a few insights
(00:54):
on how you can engage with theprocess of growth and personal
development with betterunderstanding, better
discernment and clarity aboutwhat's right for you.
And it's based on one keychange that I've come to realise
with much greater clarity.
It's a change that brings moretolerance, more flexibility and
(01:16):
freedom to your being, and thechange is this there is a big
difference between the way to dosomething and ways of doing
something.
Back in a moment.
Lily (01:29):
You're listening to Wiser
with Rob Bialostocki.
Everyday stories, insights andideas to help you live a life
that truly matters, and growwiser in the process.
Click follow on your podcastapp or click subscribe to get a
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And now back to Wiser with Rob.
Rob (01:51):
Yes, there seems to be just
a million voices out there
suggesting that there is the wayto do something you know, to
meditate, or to make change inyour life, or to change careers
or you know any endeavourwhatsoever.
On the one hand, you might comeacross an author who might say
that you're okay as you are andyou don't need to improve, and
then you come across somebodyelse who says well, it's best to
(02:14):
be continually learning andgrowing.
On the one hand, you're told,if you're into marketing online,
that lead magnets are the wayto go to attract new subscribers
, and so on, but on the otherhand, you're told by somebody
else that lead magnets are dead.
Well, are they the way to go orare they dead?
Here's another example On theone hand, you're advised to
(02:36):
double down and persevere in amarriage that really isn't
working, and then others say, no, no, no, no, you should stop
and you should go your own ways,because, hey, you've only got
one life.
And what about diets?
I mean, wow, that's a fieldwhere it's just rife with all
sorts of seemingly competing andcontradictory advice.
(02:58):
On the one hand, a diet high inprotein is the way to go.
Then apparently so eating forfive days or fasting for two is
the way to go, then apparently.
So, eating for five days orfasting for two is the way to go
instead.
And with regards to work, youknow you'll get all sorts of
views and ideas about that.
Some say, hey, you need tohustle to get ahead, become a
leader, and somebody else willrecommend well, no, focus on
(03:19):
what you do best and make valueyour main product, and you know,
if you get some sort of bonusesor career advancement
opportunities, then great.
So look, if you're looking forguidance in any area of life.
It's a hell of a confusingarena out there, and when we
(03:43):
look at what's happening here,we can see that.
You know each of the positionsthat I've just mentioned is a
way of being that is recommendedor even pushed right, usually
because there's some sort ofagenda.
But notice the words a way.
There's a difference.
(04:04):
When you hear somebody say thisis the way you know, it's put
forward with more certainty, asif that person has, you know,
tested all sorts of otheroptions and found them wanting.
But that's not usually the caseand it usually there's very
little scientific rigor behindrecommendations.
Rigor behind recommendationswhen somebody insists that there
(04:29):
is the way to believe, or theway to think or to live, or
these are the values we allought to have.
It somehow kind of feels prettyrigid to me, as if there's
little room for flexibility oradapting to different contexts
and needs and personaldispositions.
That way can feel a little bitlike an ideology or a dogma, you
(04:52):
know, as if finally the realtruth has been found and it's
taken this long in history tocome across the real answer.
What is it that causes somebodyand you and I included, if we're
honest to create or sort ofexpound a way as the way?
Well, let me suggest a coupleof causes.
(05:14):
Firstly, a person doing thatmay be somewhat, dare I say,
immature or lacking in knowledge, or enlightened even Now.
I don't mean to soundjudgmental or high and mighty at
all, simply that they may nothave fully matured yet as a
(05:35):
person and have lots of livingstill to experience, and so
their world, their mind, theirexperience might be fairly
narrow or shallow, if I couldsay that, and you know they just
have lots of growing up to do.
It seems to be that, as peoplewho are wanting to mature and
(06:00):
grow wiser, generally speaking,tend to end up getting broader
in their understanding anddeeper in their understanding.
Now, it may just be that theperson who is espousing sort of
this is the way haven't gonedeep enough into the context or
into the background or intooptions.
(06:20):
They haven't done research.
In other words, now, if I lookback on my own life, if you look
back on yours, it's probablyeasy to see that we once held
positions that we changed uponfurther experience, or we
changed after further learning,or maybe just getting older, you
know, being around for longer.
(06:41):
Now here's a second potentialcause, a cause of why somebody
will be fairly rigid orenthusiastic even about their
position that they believe isthe position to have, and I
certainly used to be like this,good Lord.
It's kind of embarrassing, butit's just understanding.
(07:02):
You know, like it's the way itwas.
I won't go into great details inthis particular episode, but I
can absolutely put my hand up onthis one.
Well, it is because they likelyhave a real agenda.
Now.
The agenda could be to build afollowing, to gain subscribers,
to sell a product, sell aproduct to evangelize a
(07:31):
particular belief system, or togain power in some way, perhaps
political power or social poweror religious power.
Now, remember, we're nottalking here about followers,
we're talking about the one whocreates the idea, the way,
whatever that is, and basicallytalks about it as if it is.
You know, that's it.
This is not to suggest that whensomebody expounds a way as the
(07:53):
way, which could be like a newapproach, a new technology, an
explanation, a theory, etc.
It's not to say that they'rewrong necessarily, because they
actually may be absolutely righton the money, or it's not to
say that they're deliberatelydeceiving others.
I simply want to suggest thateverything that people do
(08:15):
happens for a reason, and acouple of reasons that I've
mentioned may be a couple ofcommon.
People tend to be fixed on away as the way.
Now, I'm in my mid-60s at themoment and I like to think I'm
doing a lot of growing up,getting wider and deeper, and
(08:38):
I'm not talking about mywaistline.
No, from my perspective, I don'tthink that there usually is the
way.
I think there are ways Ways ofparenting, ways of eating, ways
(09:00):
of spending your time, ways tofind meaning and purpose.
I don't think there are the way.
There are usually options,there are alternatives, there
are pathways you can take, and,to be sure, they're not all
equal and maybe not evendesirable and maybe not even
successful, but they are optionsAt the very least.
(09:24):
If we accept that this is thecase, then we might use this
principle that there are ways asa guide to both better
understand what's happening in agiven situation or to choose
more effective ways ofresponding or of acting or
proceeding.
Going back to some of theoriginal examples, one way is to
(09:45):
live and accept yourself as youare.
Another way is to do that andto seek to grow by learning and
finding out more about yourstage of life, trying to decide
what you're going to let go inyour life and make room for
(10:05):
things that you think are nowmore important.
You could do that by reading orby reflecting or by talking
things through with mentors, butthere are ways to be.
Nobody has to actually be acertain way.
One way to attract subscribers,as I mentioned previously, is
to create and post what's calledlead magnets to your website
(10:26):
and social media.
These are things like adownloadable little e-book or a
little free video to get a holdof that will explain something,
or whatever.
These are designed to getpeople to sign up.
Give an email address, you sendthe thing to them and then you
have a first point of contactaddress, you send the thing to
them and then you sort of have afirst point of contact.
(10:51):
roceeding another way to attractsubscribers or to attract
followers to your methodology orwhatever it is that you offer
is to maybe offer publicworkshops.
They're both ways, and whichone you use.
Well, it depends when you hearsomebody say this is dead and
that's the way, beware, it'skind of too closed, it's too
binary, if you like.
Here's another example.
(11:12):
One way to be in closerelationships is to go see a
marriage counsellor and work onthings together.
But another way might be torespectfully separate because
little change has been made.
I know when I went through aseparation and divorce after a
29-year marriage, I had very,very well-meaning people tell me
(11:32):
I was absolutely making thebiggest mistake of my life,
because this is the way it hasto be and this is what you need
to do, which, of course, wasn'tvery helpful at the time.
So in each of these cases thatwe've been looking at how to
live, marketing, marriage, evenin each of these cases, there
(11:53):
are more than just two options.
There is likely to be at leasta few.
So how do you know which one tofollow?
How do you know which path totake.
Good question.
Allow me to offer somesuggestions, not on what to do
or what to think and adhere to,but on how to proceed.
(12:14):
So, firstly, here's someimportant principles which I
think are really good as a guide.
Number one as we've said, thereis not a way, there are ways,
and if you find yourselfthinking down one path, catch
(12:35):
yourself and tell yourself hangon, rob.
There are actually other waystoo.
What are they?
You're kind of catchingyourself going down one rabbit
hole and thinking hang on asecond, what are the other
options?
So you're forcing yourself togo wide.
That's the first principle, Ithink, on how to actually find
(13:00):
your pathway in whatever it isthat you are considering doing.
Here's a second thing the bestoption for you will depend on a
few factors.
We often think that you know arecommendation from somebody
that's worked for them will workfor me.
Not necessarily, so.
It depends.
For example, do you have asimilar disposition or
(13:23):
personality to that person?
So their advice that works forthem maybe it's not going to
work for you.
Are you in the same situationas they are Somebody who tells
you you know you should work?
You know 12 hours a day,hustling a side business may not
be in your situation at all.
They may be single and have nokids, and you might be married
(13:46):
and have a child or two or agrandchild that you look after.
It's just not the samesituation.
Here's another question Do youhave the same resources as the
advice that you're listening to?
Is the timing right for you?
Maybe it's a good idea, but notfor now.
(14:08):
So these are sort of dimensionsto consider when you're looking
at a particular option or apathway or some alternative
approaches to take to get aparticular endeavor up and
running, to think more broadlyabout the variables and then
choose what kind of aligns withyou most naturally, given timing
(14:28):
, context, resources, yourdisposition, the situation
you're in.
So first way, or firstprinciple rather, there is not a
way.
There are ways.
What are they?
The second one, the best optionfor you, depends on a few
factors.
So consider the factors and letthat inform the pathway or
(14:54):
option that you choose.
And here's number three you canexperiment.
You can experiment.
Nothing's permanent, becauseyou know what I mean.
Obviously, there are somephysical things that are
permanent, but nothing'spermanent when it comes to ideas
and trying things out andlooking for next steps, et
(15:14):
cetera, because nothing's set instone.
In fact, when I was coaching andconsulting in the corporate
world and I talked to peopleabout making business
improvements or organizationalchange, my view was and I used
to advise them on this it'sbetter to actually move forward
in small steps than to try andgo full noise from the beginning
(15:37):
.
Not only do people like JamesClear, who's the author of
Atomic Habits, suggest this, butit just makes sense, doesn't it
?
Starting small allows you totest, with limited risk and
limited commitment of resources,of time and energy and public
reputation, or even reputationwithin your family.
(15:57):
Starting small always the veryfirst step.
Anyway.
You know the old journey of athousand steps begins with the
first step, doesn't it?
So start small and build upslowly and see how it goes for
you and then, based on realexperience, not just thinking
about it, then you can decidedoes this feel right for me, is
this the right option for me, ornot quite?
(16:20):
So once again, those threeprinciples.
First, there isn't a way, thereare ways.
Secondly, which option is bestfor you depends on a range of
factors.
So consider those factors andsee how it affects what you find
(16:41):
is most viable.
And thirdly, don't go fullnoise, don't plan for a month
before you take your firstlittle step.
Experiment, small steps, smallrisks, and then, based on your
actual experience and how itreally resonates with you or
doesn't, then you could decideshall I carry on down this path
(17:02):
or shall I try somethingslightly different?
So, my dear friend, with theprinciples that we've just
talked about in mind, think of asituation, if you have one,
something you want to change,something you want to try
something.
You want to try an idea youwant to pursue, maybe an
(17:27):
approach you're thinking abouttaking in your personal life or
in work, a technology or a skillmaybe you're thinking of
developing.
Maybe you're thinking of goingto study at university, like I
did in my early 60s.
Your key question might bewhat's the right approach for me
?
(17:47):
And as Martha Beck says so wellAmerican author and love some of
her stuff she says ask thequestion with your head and
listen for the answers from yourheart.
That in itself is an excellentguide.