September 25, 2025 • 31 mins
Description:
From tight white jeans and too much cologne to pocket watches and… frequent pooters—Justin and Katy dive into the world of relationship deal breakers. What gives you “the ick”? Can you overlook it if everything else about a person lines up, or are some icks simply non-negotiable?
In this episode, we break down a real New York Times advice column about a date gone wrong and use it as a launchpad to explore the deal breakers that make or break relationships. Along the way, we share personal stories (yes, including pocket-watch guy), debate whether standards soften as we age, and confess our own unshakable icks.
Later in the show, we pivot to the hot topic of “Nepo Babies.” Are they talentless beneficiaries of privilege, or unfairly maligned artists who just happened to have famous parents? We tackle the nuance, the backlash, and whether opportunity equals entitlement.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:01):
She's Katy Montgomery , he's Justin Joseph.
These best friends are servingsubpoenas to bad advice weekly
with Wrong Way Forward.
The advice column reboot.
You never knew you neededSparks fly, and so does the
hilarity.
Now here's Katy and Justin.
Justin Joseph (00:18):
Hey everybody, welcome back to episode 4 of
Wrong Way Forward.
I'm Justin Joseph here, alongwith Katy Montgomery.
We've covered a lot ofterritory in our first four
episodes.
Katy Montgomery (00:26):
That's correct.
And today I think we're goingto deep dive into a kind of
intense topic and something thatcan be kind of gnarly and that
is kind of relationship dealbreakers.
Justin Joseph (00:38):
A hundred percent .
You know, I think this is anepisode that, no matter where
you are in the spectrum of lifeyou've been in a relationship
forever you are still lookingfor one- Right.
This is an episode that willtouch and a lot of people relate
to.
Katy Montgomery (00:50):
Exactly, and so of course I'm going to start
with this is going to be anofficial piece of advice.
This is coming from the NewYork Times, so I'm going to put
on my readers to make this kindof to read this.
But this is part of social cueskind of to read this, but this
is part of social cues.
It is a kind of weekly part ofthe New York Times that gives
(01:11):
kind of advice.
So someone writes in and says Irecently started dating a man
who was funny and bright.
His lifestyle preferences arealigned with mine.
We both like splitting our timeamong New York City, the
country and the beach.
That combo is hard to find thesedays.
The problem on our third datehe showed up wearing tight white
jeans and cologne with gel inhis hair.
(01:32):
I appreciate that this may behis vibe, but it's not for me.
It was also different from hislow-key style.
On our first two dates Imanaged to make it through the
happy hour, but I've beensensitive to scent for as long
as I can remember.
Should I bring up thissensitivity with him or chalk it
up to preference that anotherwoman may like?
Justin Joseph (01:50):
Okay, so we're going to get to the advice, but
let's stop right there and breakthis down.
Katy Montgomery (01:54):
Yes.
Justin Joseph (01:54):
How old?
And this viewer does not giveus her age.
How old do we think this womanis?
I'm thinking this has to besomebody, probably in their 30s
at this point I'm thinking olderas well, because she's had
enough time to know what shewants, correct, um.
But also she's very specificabout what she wants, which I
think is sort of cuts both waysand she's specific about knowing
what gives her the ick which Ithink if anyone has that gift,
(02:17):
it's you correct the ick is realand it's very hard to get past
the ick is real.
Okay, that's the name of thisepisode going forward.
The ick is real.
Katy Montgomery (02:26):
The ick is real .
Justin Joseph (02:26):
yes, so let's dive into.
So she wrote in and let's seewhat the advice columnist.
Katy Montgomery (02:31):
And so the advice says I'm confused.
Even if you sort out thecologne and I believe you have
the right to tell this manyou're sensitive to fragrance
and to ask him to come unsent atfuture meetings that still
leaves the white jeans and hairgel.
My impression from your letteris that all three are
non-starters for you and, asmuch as we might like to, we
(02:51):
don't have the right tomicromanage the aesthetic
choices of others.
Now you don't mention your ageor relationship experience, so
I'm going to tread gently here.
Your dating criteria seem a bitshallow to me.
Being able to afford anapartment in the city, a country
house and beach vacations isnot a lifestyle preference, it
is a socioeconomic condition,and wealth and appearances make
(03:13):
poor foundations for goodrelationships in my experience.
Justin Joseph (03:19):
So shockingly.
I think we're going to disagreeon this because I really think
this advice.
I think you're going to agreethat she can take those things
out and she can be.
She can have objections to them.
I think you've reached acertain point where your
objection criteria has to softenyour thoughts.
Katy Montgomery (03:36):
I mean, I do, I mean I agree with that, but I
do think that there's alsosomething to be said that if you
have a certain aesthetic and Ithink attraction is very
important and I think if hairgel and tight white jeans and
heavy cologne triggers andsignifies something to you
(03:57):
that's affiliated with somethingthat gives you the ick or that
you associate with a lot ofnegatives, it's very hard to get
past that.
Justin Joseph (04:08):
Okay, that's fine .
I think what's interesting isyou and I discussed this when we
were prepping the episode, andI think what I found interesting
is something that I had notthought about is I think when
you start dating, you're willingto take on some of the it
Correct, and as you get older,then perhaps you're less willing
to do that.
Do you agree with that?
Katy Montgomery (04:25):
Agreed, and I think if you are 50 years old
and you have particularconnotations whether or not they
are fair, accurate that areassociated with a man in tight
white jeans, gel and heavycologne, it's very hard, if
that's been ingrained in you for50 plus years, to let those go
overnight.
Justin Joseph (04:43):
Okay, but I mean, I agree, tight white jeans plus
hair gel, plus cologne.
Katy Montgomery (04:48):
It's a lot.
Justin Joseph (04:51):
It's a lot.
But would you take a man intight white jeans without the
cologne, without the hair gel,or one of the three I?
Katy Montgomery (04:59):
mean fantastic question and I'm terrified that
the listeners are going to thinkthat I'm a very superficial and
shallow person, but I'm goingto tell a story.
So I dated a guy, we had agreat time.
I ended up going back to myex-boyfriend and we had we
continued kind of a long-termrelationship, but then we
connected.
After that, said boyfriend andI broke up and I invited him to
(05:23):
a fundraising event and I saidit's suit and tie.
Now he says to me I have athree-piece suit.
And I immediately got veryanxious.
I'm like he's gonna wear a vest.
Who wears a vest?
And then I start to realize.
Justin Joseph (05:40):
And then he says it has a matching pocket watch
okay, and if I can just stop youright here, it's so interesting
to me that he felt like heneeded to run his alpha by.
He already knew that you had ahigh I don't think so.
Katy Montgomery (05:52):
I think he was very proud of his suit suit it
was three pieces, it was brownpinstripe and it had a pocket
watch and I think that is what.
Justin Joseph (06:04):
That's gross, correct.
But anyone who knows you forfive minutes, whether they're
going to be dating you or yourbest friend, knows quickly that
your, your standards are hereand they need to run by things
by agree or disagree.
Katy Montgomery (06:15):
No, I mean I disagree.
And here's the thing, if youtake that assumption and you
play that out, he clearly didn'tcare enough, because if he
thought I would care, he stillwore a three-piece suit, suit
with a pocket watch.
Justin Joseph (06:29):
Did you tell him not to wear that?
Katy Montgomery (06:30):
No, because I was at a stage in my dating life
where I'm like don't be a bitch, be generous, don't make
assumptions, it's not about whatpeople wear, but the entire-.
Justin Joseph (06:42):
Should you make a mistake and not tell him?
Should you have told the truthwhat people wear, but the entire
?
Should you make a mistake andnot tell them?
Should you have told the truth?
Katy Montgomery (06:46):
I think at that stage no, but I think the
entire time it made me cringe.
And the other day my brothermentioned oh, remember when that
guy wore a pocket watch.
And again, I'm very close to mysiblings.
So again, here I am.
I'm 51, I'm an independentwoman, but I still literally
want to crawl under the tablebecause I know, and again, I
(07:07):
want to be bigger than that, Iwant to be a kind, serviceable
person.
Justin Joseph (07:11):
But you're not.
I mean those things areimportant to you, and when you
say bigger than that, that's whoyou are.
Katy Montgomery (07:15):
Well, I mean, I aspire to not care about that
kind of stuff.
Justin Joseph (07:19):
When have you ever not cared about that?
Katy Montgomery (07:21):
But I well, I didn't tell him to change, Do
you remember?
Justin Joseph (07:24):
when you and I when you were in college and you
go to zero-two parents and youwould you would school give me a
lessons manner on how to eatand how to?
Katy Montgomery (07:30):
And you thanked me for that later.
You said it was one of the mostinstructive times of your life.
It was this advice.
I don't agree with the advice.
I've tried that.
I've tried to go beyond it.
But if you've got the ick andyou're finding certain things
unattractive and you have heavyconnotations with things that
(07:52):
make you cringe, it'suncomfortable being your real
self around someone when you'reconstantly just evaluating what
someone's doing.
And it doesn't mean you're abad person.
Announcer (08:05):
It doesn't mean that.
Katy Montgomery (08:06):
You do have aesthetic, you know preferences,
and why are we punishing peoplefor aesthetic preferences?
Justin Joseph (08:12):
I don't think we are.
I think what we're punishing isyou.
There are two things I findobjectionable about your.
Take on this, yes.
The first is that you set notonly him up for failure, you set
yourself up for failure becauseyou didn't just be honest and
say you won't wear a pocket, andyou should have told him not to
wear a pocket.
Katy Montgomery (08:28):
I think I said why would you want to wear a
pocket?
Justin Joseph (08:31):
You see, you got that.
That should have been taken on.
Absolutely not.
You will not wear an effingpocket watch at dinner with my
family.
Katy Montgomery (08:38):
It wasn't dinner with the family, it was a
fundraiser.
Justin Joseph (08:41):
It's gross, I agree with you.
A high egg factor.
We could have figuredeverything out, it's just nasty,
but you set yourself up forfailure.
Set him up for failure by nottelling the truth.
Katy Montgomery (08:52):
I think that that's easier said than done
when you are connecting withsomeone you know and it's still
kind of new.
I mean, I would like to ask youI mean we're talking about
relationship deal breakers andwhat is fair and what is
considered too superficial.
Justin Joseph (09:10):
Well, I think that that's all fair.
I mean, I can think aboutsomeone who I thought was the
love of my life, and so muchthat I would fly to his city
probably five times and beg himto be my partner, and every time
he's like stop coming here,it's not going to happen.
Katy Montgomery (09:26):
See that, to me that's a non-starter, because
he didn't want to start it withwell, we did, we.
Justin Joseph (09:31):
We started it and then he ended it, and then I
kept flying back and saying, areyou sure?
And he kept saying, yeah, I'msure, but I I think, on the
impact there were so much abouthim, that would not be who he.
Katy Montgomery (09:43):
I would be with that person today one of them
to see okay okay, so I just giveme a second because I really I
just puked in my mouth, what doyou mean?
Justin Joseph (09:56):
like he was just very casual about pooping you
have to tell them you're justlike that one.
No one is wearing that one.
Katy Montgomery (10:04):
Everybody knows that poo is the very kind and
appropriate way to not call itan F-A-R-T.
I hate the word F-A-R-T.
Justin Joseph (10:12):
I hate that word and I hate the P-word, the poo
word.
Katy Montgomery (10:16):
Anyway, could you just answer the question.
Did he poo a lot in front ofyou?
Justin Joseph (10:19):
He had no problem doing it in front of me.
Katy Montgomery (10:32):
And to me, me, that for me is high, high, eight
factors worse than thestopwatch or pocket watch,
pocket watch.
So if he was so handsome, greatcareer, really interesting
family person, values matched up.
But he just happened to be afrequent pooter a freaking
pooter around me in my face.
Justin Joseph (10:41):
Um, yeah, so I think we're gonna.
We're gonna head to break here,I think.
On the other side, let's talkabout the fact that, as you get
older, does your ink factordecrease or does it increase
because you're okay being alone.
Katy Montgomery (10:51):
We'll talk about it okay, makes sense.
You've been listening to wrongway forward, where bad advice
goes to die and then getsresurrected just so we can roast
it again that's right, Katy.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Nobody's off limits not the gurus, not the
influencers, and definitely notOprah.
Katy Montgomery (11:07):
Sorry, Oprah.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
If you're enjoying the chaos, hit like and
subscribe and come back everyThursday for new episodes.
Katy Montgomery (11:13):
Have a new topic or some disastrously bad
advice you want to dissect?
Email wrongwayforwardpodcast atgmailcom.
Include your contact info.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Now back to Wrong Way Forward.
Announcer (11:25):
Roasting the worst advice ever.
Welcome back to the Katy andjustin podcast and we're back.
Justin Joseph (11:30):
So justin before we went to the break, you posed
a question, so let's revisitthat I do want to revisit this
because I have a good girlfriendwho is in the dating pool.
I know you are as well and Ioften wonder when you're young,
you know you kind of are morechoosy because you're young and
you get to be, get get to bethat way, I think you're in
thirties or forties you're lesschoosy because you're trying to.
You're at that age where youneed to have children and you
(11:51):
maybe are a little bit more open.
Do you agree that as you getolder, in your forties, fifties,
where you're really okay beingalone, that you really do be
alone?
Katy Montgomery (12:03):
I mean, I think it's more nuanced than that,
right, I think an it factor isan it factor and you can't
control that right?
I think an it factor 20 is thesame as an it factor of 50 I
mean, I think it evolves overtime right in your exposure and
and being able to possibly, Imean I think some of those it
factors are based on kind ofsuperficial norms that might
have been disproven over time.
Justin Joseph (12:25):
And for you specifically, you have the same
it factors when you were 25 asyou do now.
Katy Montgomery (12:29):
I mean that's not fair because I haven't
cataloged all my it factors.
Justin Joseph (12:33):
But I would say Are you sure you haven't?
Because I feel like you have.
Katy Montgomery (12:38):
I appreciate that, but I'm a very busy person
, Justin.
Justin Joseph (12:41):
But I feel like that's the same for all women.
I think people know what they.
Katy Montgomery (12:44):
No, its factors are different.
It you can't anticipate Now Ican tell you on a man.
For me, tight white jeans, hairgel and cologne has been
consistent since I was probably,let's say, real interested in
boys like age 12, and I'm almost52.
Justin Joseph (13:01):
And none of the boys did.
I mean, I agree, tight whitejeans, although, yes, tie white
jeans and cologne, I guess, as Isay now, I don't agree with tie
white jeans Jocks wears cologne, occasionally Cologne, it's
heavy cologne.
Yeah, but what was the thirditem?
Hair gel, hair gel.
Have you never made asilhouette hair gel?
I mean, I'm sure I have.
Katy Montgomery (13:21):
But I was just, you know, I was raised down
South Boys were washing go.
They didn't use hair dryers,they don't use gel, like if you
said what's mousse, They'd belike I don't know, do you eat it
for dessert?
Like I.
Just so I'm just not used tothat, though I, you know.
To just kind of tell anotherstory, I used to be in a wine
club and this wine club started,you know, started, you know,
(13:46):
kind of late twenties, earlythirties, and at the very first
meeting of the wine clubeveryone was single.
It's probably very telling, I'mthe only person who's still
single, you know this many yearslater, but someone.
We played kind of a parlor gameand they said you have 20
points and you have to allocate20 points for your future
partner among four categories,and it was looks, kindness,
intelligence and humor.
Okay, and, as you could imagine, the men were high on looks,
(14:11):
the women were high on kind ofintelligence and humor, and
kindness kind of fell to thewayside yeah, that's interesting
um, and not surprising, but andat that point in my age I was
like look, if you're highlyintelligent, there's a high
likelihood you're probably smart.
And if you're smart you probablyget the kindness, because you
know if you're highlyintelligent, there's a high
likelihood you're probably smart.
And if you're smart youprobably get the kindness,
because you know if you do X,you probably going to piss
someone off until you're cleverenough.
Not the case.
So I do think this is nuanced.
(14:33):
I mean, I'm like if you get aheavy ick and it's an ick to
where you think that you can'tbe yourself and you can't treat
that person with love andkindness and respect, I think
you kind of call it off.
If you feel like you're alwayscringing around them, you're
always having to compensate forthem.
You're always having to kind ofexplain why they're doing
something.
Because you find ituncomfortable or you don't like
(14:55):
it.
I think it's not good enough.
But I do think if you can getpast the ick and I think the
question really comes to thecrux of this is can she get over
the ick?
Justin Joseph (15:08):
And let me ask you this can you coach through
the ick?
I think that you did not dowith stopwatch man or pocket
watch man.
You didn't take the opportunityto say don't wear a vest,
please.
It makes me out you could.
You were the queen of this.
I love you, bud.
Do not wear a pocket watch tothe party.
Burn your vests.
And I forgot what the thirdthing was it was a suit suit.
Katy Montgomery (15:26):
I don't think that's like stripes I think it
was kind of like the suit thatyou would think a little bit of
bob and bob in my life a littlebit.
Justin Joseph (15:34):
You don't remember that song.
I feel like if you liked him,you'd call it a seersucker it
was not a seersucker.
Katy Montgomery (15:42):
I can I can spot a seersucker about two
miles away and I literally wouldrun towards a seersucker about
two miles away.
And I literally would runtowards a seersucker.
I would run towards aseersucker.
Justin Joseph (15:50):
You didn't like it was a seersucker.
If you liked it, it would havebeen a seersucker.
Katy Montgomery (15:54):
Oh my God, if it was a seersucker I'd be like.
I feel, like my ring size is.
Justin Joseph (16:01):
I still, but I you know, kimberly, do you agree
with me on this point?
You have always had highstandards.
That is not something toapologize for, it's something to
acknowledge, and do you-.
Katy Montgomery (16:09):
Hey, I'm going to be honest.
I think probably the wrong wayforward is, you know, and I
think probably some listenersare going to be like, high
standards are not white jeans,hair gel, and you know, you know
high standards are.
You want someone of integrity,you want someone who's committed
to family.
You want someone who's honest.
(16:30):
You want someone you know whois, you know hardworking, and
those are things that I want.
But I also want to be highlyattractive and I don't want to
cringe if one of my brotherrefers to something from a
boyfriend years ago and Iimmediately like changing the
subject so fast because I startto get embarrassed.
Justin Joseph (16:47):
I just think it's interesting because you know I
might, like I may, have it mucheasier to move into the dating
world.
Katy Montgomery (16:55):
Well, I mean, and I just don't want us to
forget, justin, that if anybodypoops in front of you, it's
completely over.
Justin Joseph (17:02):
That is a deal breaker.
You should be out the door.
And, yes, I don't care ifyou're a zoot suit or not, and
whatever, a surf sucker or not.
Yes, there we go All right,we're coming to the time of the
show.
We're going to look at ourviewer emails from our last
segment.
Katy Montgomery (17:24):
Why don't you take us in and tell us what
we've got and what we?
We talked about our you knowbeloved Oprah.
Well, your beloved Oprah, andyou know Oprah gave advice at a
Stanford commencement speechthat said your emotion should be
your GPS.
You should always follow whatyour emotions and I think you
know.
For me it was more of like look, you know, when emotions are
taking over, you're losing kindof the logic, you're losing kind
of the real facts and the dataand you can kind of tell
(17:45):
yourself stories that can sendyou away.
And so we did hear from somereaders and I'm sure Justin, I'm
seeing you smirking- over here.
Justin Joseph (17:55):
One of the readers actually starts by Tom
Quiddy and then does a quickturn and backhands me, so you'll
like this one yeah please share.
I don't always do shared emailsthat are critical of me, but,
Katy, you tried to rewritehistory saying you were always
impressed by opera love thatpoint.
You do always do that.
But justin taught youred-handed that factually
incorrect button idea genius,please get it installed.
(18:16):
So she thinks that you need oneof those to buzz me correct,
correct.
Katy Montgomery (18:22):
So let's see what I heard.
So you were so right to callout Justin's story about lying
at work.
It's a perfect example of whatyou're talking about Letting
emotional and personal desiretake over.
Do you think Justin's factuallyincorrect moments on the
broadcast are just his emotionalbrain running wild?
And how did you handle that?
Yeah, I mean, they don't solveit for me money.
Justin Joseph (18:44):
Well, and how did you handle that?
Yeah, I mean, they don't solveit for me just.
Well, clement, this is becominga trend line because you push
it all the time and I'mfactually and actually again.
Another one of my emails says Ilove.
This is touching.
I love how justin sharesheartfelt oprah story is true
framed autographs, sneaking outof the prosecutor's office just
to see her.
And Katy's big contribution istelling us he needs he reads
(19:06):
teleprompters when he's nervousGirl.
He's living his best job of herlife, don't it?
And you're here trying tonarrate like a jealous stage
manager, calling me factuallycorrect.
Did your husband send that in?
No, it doesn't say correct.
Okay, let's see.
I think.
Katy Montgomery (19:21):
I've got one more to share.
It seems like Justin relies onhis gut feeling a lot, even
though you provided clear as anevidence that it's a flawed
approach.
How do you maintain aproductive co-hosting
relationship when your podcastpartner dismisses your logical
professional advice?
Justin Joseph (19:39):
Well, I disagree with that.
Katy Montgomery (19:40):
I need to, I need to address this reader.
It's it's very difficult, it'svery hard and I'm working on it.
Justin Joseph (19:47):
Well, let me also say I do actually think you
have that's what I think youbring to the podcast.
I think you are this, as, outof the many episodes we've done,
this one I think you are mostlyright on.
Like I give you a 70-30 righton oh, my gosh, yeah.
So usually we say we're goingto disagree on this.
I thought I did not agree onhow you took on Oprah, but I did
not disagree with how you tookon her advice.
Katy Montgomery (20:11):
Well, if Oprah ever calls.
Justin Joseph (20:12):
I'll let you sit next to her.
Here's my final one.
Let's be real.
Justin shows up with quotes,data and a killer Oprah
backstory.
Katy shows up with you look oldin a suit and some elephant fan
fiction.
Sorry, but this isn a NationalGeographic, it's a podcast.
Give me justice.
Check your logic over yourtrust, your emotional elephant.
Any day of the week that personhad it for you.
Katy Montgomery (20:33):
I mean, they clearly hate my guts, but I
think it's so irrational that Ireally don't care.
Justin Joseph (20:39):
All right.
Well, when we come back, youknow, in segment three, we
always do our.
Let's talk about this.
Yes, you want to give a previewof what we're talking about
this week.
Katy Montgomery (20:45):
So let's talk about.
This is going to be kind of atopic again.
You know, justin, and I try notto talk about this ahead of
time, so, but my guess is we'renot going to agree, we're going
to talk about NetVote maybe.
So we'll be back in just asecond.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
Thanks for streaming Wrong Way Forward the weekly
reminder that advice is usuallyfree.
For a reason we call out badadvice wherever it hides
boardrooms, break rooms and evenbook clubs.
Katy Montgomery (21:10):
Enjoying this dumpster fire Like subscribe and
check back every Thursday fornew episodes.
Want us to roast your favoritepiece of nonsense?
Email us atwrongwayforwardpodcast at
gmailcom.
Be sure to include your contactinfo.
We're not psychic, justjudgmental.
And now back to Wrong WayForward.
Announcer (21:29):
Roasting the worst advice ever.
Welcome back to the Katy andJustin podcast.
Justin Joseph (21:33):
All right.
So welcome back to segmentthree, where we talk about can
we talk about it?
This is a segment that, forwhatever reason had it, could be
a hot topic.
It could be something that yousaw or I saw, that sparked
something that makes you want tocomment.
This week we're talking aboutnepo babies.
It's been a topic that's beenon a lot of people's minds for
some time.
Katy Montgomery (21:52):
It has been, it has been.
And I mean my general kind oftake on this is I think there's
some really amazing nepo babiesout there.
Oh, I think Jamie Lee Curtisno-transcript.
Justin Joseph (22:32):
Think that's what we're talking about.
Katy Montgomery (22:33):
But I think I mean again, neither one of those
are parents.
But you know, if I had a childand you know, and I would want
them to have, you know, reallythe drive and the motivation to
kind of do what they needed todo, but if I had access to an
internship or if I could give mynieces or nephews, you know,
feedback on you know, I'veworked at Georgetown and see a
(22:54):
lot of Johns Hopkins If I couldgive them insight into kind of
what they were looking for forfuture applicants, I would share
that.
So I think that's a really hardline and a boundary that we
can't kind of clearly draw and Ithink if we're seeing people
take these roles and reallyexcel, it's not fair for them to
be burdened by the you're aNEPA baby Right.
Justin Joseph (23:14):
And this is your email.
When we talked about that wewere going to do this.
Someone said Justin and Katy.
I agree with your take on NEPAbabies, but Katy clearly is from
an affluent upbringing.
Katy Montgomery (23:31):
Isn't that the same thing?
How do you feel about that?
Justin Joseph (23:32):
Well, I I can tell this person that I've had a
job since I was, but you had aleg up.
I think that's her point isthat you had came from an
affluent family.
Katy Montgomery (23:37):
I would not say affluent, I would say highly
educated, that really promotededucation.
Justin Joseph (23:42):
Isn't that enough of a leg up?
Yeah.
Katy Montgomery (23:46):
And I don't think that.
I think that it would be veryodd for a parent to not be
actively engaged.
And you know, I think I read ina study that they said one of
the greater, greatest indicatorsof success is if your child
goes to summer camp like sleepaway summer camp.
And it makes sense, right, youcan afford sleep away summer
camp.
You makes sense, right, you canafford sleep away summer camp.
You're a certain socioeconomicstatus with that Tom's education
(24:07):
, money, opportunity.
So you know, what do peopleexpect people to do?
Like step back and not givekind of those children
opportunities.
And, to be completely honest,if my preference would be a nepo
baby over like a Kardashian whomade a sex tape and does cheap
reality TV, you know, if I hadmy choice, I mean, I think the
(24:28):
ultimate question is, is theretalent there?
Justin Joseph (24:31):
Number one.
But I think we can both agreethat we were given sort of a leg
up just because of that.
Katy Montgomery (24:36):
A hundred percent.
Justin Joseph (24:37):
We were made to go to college.
That alone is a step up over alot of the population.
And so you know, and for a nepobaby, there are some out there
and I, you know, I watched gildaday.
She has a nepo baby of a veryfamous austria winning actress
and I thought she was terriblein seasons one through I mean
I'll just say her, and she'smeryl streep's daughter.
And I thought she, she, wasterrible in seasons one through
(24:58):
three, but by season four shefound herself.
Is she meryl streep?
No, will she ever be MerylStreep?
No, but that bar is high.
But there are plenty of Nepobabies that probably shouldn't
have gotten.
Katy Montgomery (25:08):
Yeah, but I mean I think that there's also
Nepo babies, that I don't wantpeople to take away the fact
that they are fantastic.
And I look at like I don't knowif anyone here has been
watching the Pit on HBO, but Ithink it's absolutely fantastic,
the pit on HBO, but I thinkit's absolutely fantastic.
And Bryan Cranston, who's afantastic actor known for
Breaking Bad, his daughterTaylor's on that role on that
(25:30):
series and she's absolutelyfantastic.
And it made me a little sadwhen she became attached to her
dad, because I knew people wouldsay she only got it because of
that, when in all reality shehad a different last name and,
to be completely honest, Icouldn't have picked her out as
a lineup as her a different lastname and, to be completely
honest, I couldn't picture outas a lineup as her but her
casting was strong.
I mean maybe who knows, butshe's really fantastic in the
(25:52):
role well, I think that that'sfine.
Justin Joseph (25:54):
So if you had to give a, a letter grade, or a
number grade in terms of yourbeing okay with devil babies,
you would say what?
Katy Montgomery (26:02):
I mean, I would say, you know a scale of one to
ten, you know I would probablygive it a six or seven, you know
?
Justin Joseph (26:08):
yeah, I'm okay with it and I would definitely
be underneath that.
I'd be more against it than Iam, and part of it's just
because I'm someone who's workedhard, as you have, and so I
don't compete in a fair playingfield, and it bothers me when
someone gets something, anadvantage that I can't have and
I can't compete in.
I could never have a.
Katy Montgomery (26:27):
Yeah, but I mean you were born in America as
a white male, I mean youalready had advantage.
So I think and that's the thingthat's a problem is assigning
someone and slapping on Nepobaby takes away all of the
nuance and all of the otheradvantages that all other people
have doesn't also slapping onyou were born and why I may have
did the same thing I mean yes,but those are those still that
(26:52):
are in our society areconsidered advantages.
That would you.
It will take you off the firstbase and get you closer to home
run I don't disagree at all.
Justin Joseph (27:01):
And you know, in the end, even if you're a nepo
baby and you're put on a goodmovie or whatever, you still
have to prove you still have to.
Katy Montgomery (27:07):
And let's be honest, if you fail as an Epo
baby, the fall is much moreintense and much more trauma
related.
Because when you fail, it isfront cover, page six, National
Enquirer, people magazine,people magazine, entertainment
tonight.
So you don't fail quietly, youfail in the public eye.
Justin Joseph (27:27):
It's a bigger fault yes, correct, and there's
some classic.
There's some big examples ofnevo babies that have had, you
know, twice the spotlightbecause of them and I'm trying
to think of anything that comesto mind right now, but there
have been some classic examplesof nevo babies um, the woman who
got her kids into college, loriwell she cheated, but her
children were at that pointsuccessful on their own because
(27:48):
of her name, I think they hadfashion lines or whatever they
had.
Katy Montgomery (27:52):
But when she failed, or when they all failed,
it was a big false and nowanybody Googles those kids,
they're going to know that theywere part of a cheating college
scandal.
Yes, 100%.
Justin Joseph (28:03):
I think it's an interesting conversation.
It's interesting that there'sbeen on everybody's mind so much
like there.
People have strong opinions onthis right.
Katy Montgomery (28:09):
You know, whatever side you come down and
I think it comes back to what isthis podcast about and is the
wrong way forward.
What is the right way forwardif you have a child and let's
let's narrow this down tohollywood you're from hollywood,
you have a child who'sincredibly interested in
hollywood.
What do you do?
Justin Joseph (28:28):
yeah, and I might .
This brings back to the story.
I was john.
My brother's a very, very smartperson.
He's in medicine.
For those of you don't know,that's the.
You know you have to have acertain iq to get into that
program.
You have to test it genius andso yes, and so when I was young,
in second, my brotherimmediately tested into gifted
and talented and my mother wasliterally dragging me by the
shirt up to the principal'soffice Once a year, say test
(28:51):
Justin.
And they were like he's notgifted and talented, stop
bringing it up.
Katy Montgomery (28:56):
I was in talented and gifted.
Justin Joseph (28:59):
But the point is is like she was trying to give
me a leg up that I didn'tdeserve and I didn't get.
Katy Montgomery (29:04):
And it probably felt like not amazing.
Justin Joseph (29:07):
Yeah, it's traumatic Telling a story what
51 years later, I could reallyremember, like in the back of my
mind.
I heard him he's not so and yes, no, I was not so anyway.
Katy Montgomery (29:19):
But?
But when we talk about kind ofwrong way forward, right, let's
try to flip it before we signoff today.
What is the right way forwardfor NEPA babies?
Justin Joseph (29:29):
Or for a parent who was trying to get their
children to that job.
Katy Montgomery (29:33):
Yes, I love that and any parent will.
It would be odd if you weren't.
Justin Joseph (29:36):
Yeah, and you want that kind of parent right?
I love that my mother was in mycorner and I.
You know, if I had children andI'm sure if you did too we
would be doing the same thing.
So the right way forward is topush and push and push to get
your children the advantage theydeserve.
Katy Montgomery (29:58):
I think maybe the wrong way forward is when
you try and take advantage ofyour name or your position to
get that done, and I think it's.
I think probably the wrong wayforward is having your children
thinking they're entitled to it.
Probably the wrong way forwardis having your children thinking
they're entitled to it, butmaybe opening a door, but really
sending out the message thathard work, education,
perseverance, you know, andreally honing one's craft is
what's going to be kind of inthe long run success A hundred
percent.
Justin Joseph (30:17):
So our next episode we're going to talk
about one of our favorite topicspet peeves.
Do you have some ideas?
Please email us.
Yes.
Katy Montgomery (30:24):
It's at the wrong way forward.
Podcast at gmailcom.
And again we'd like to remindeveryone we really appreciate
all our listeners.
Please follow us on our socialmedia accounts.
We'll share those at the end ofthis episode.
But also, if you enjoy ourpodcast, make sure to follow us
and you can always leave a greatreview.
Thanks so much.
We enjoyed chatting with y'alltoday.
Justin Joseph (30:44):
We'll see you next week.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
All right, that's a wrap on this week's episode of
Wrong Way Forward.
Remember, the only thing worsethan taking bad advice is giving
it.
Katy Montgomery (30:52):
If you've liked what you've heard, like
subscribe or follow us whereveryou stream podcast, and if
you've got a topic or need someadvice, we'll probably regret
giving email us atwrongwayforwardpodcast at
gmailcom.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Wrong
Way Forward.
She's Katy Montgomery , he's Justin Joseph.
These best friends are servingsubpoenas to bad advice weekly
with Wrong Way Forward.
The advice column reboot.
You never knew you neededSparks fly, and so does the
hilarity.
Now here's Katy and Justin.
Justin Joseph (00:18):
Hey everybody, welcome back to episode 4 of
Wrong Way Forward.
I'm Justin Joseph here, alongwith Katy Montgomery.
We've covered a lot ofterritory in our first four
episodes.
Katy Montgomery (00:26):
That's correct.
And today I think we're goingto deep dive into a kind of
intense topic and something thatcan be kind of gnarly and that
is kind of relationship dealbreakers.
Justin Joseph (00:38):
A hundred percent .
You know, I think this is anepisode that, no matter where
you are in the spectrum of lifeyou've been in a relationship
forever you are still lookingfor one- Right.
This is an episode that willtouch and a lot of people relate
to.
Katy Montgomery (00:50):
Exactly, and so of course I'm going to start
with this is going to be anofficial piece of advice.
This is coming from the NewYork Times, so I'm going to put
on my readers to make this kindof to read this.
But this is part of social cueskind of to read this, but this
is part of social cues.
It is a kind of weekly part ofthe New York Times that gives
(01:11):
kind of advice.
So someone writes in and says Irecently started dating a man
who was funny and bright.
His lifestyle preferences arealigned with mine.
We both like splitting our timeamong New York City, the
country and the beach.
That combo is hard to find thesedays.
The problem on our third datehe showed up wearing tight white
jeans and cologne with gel inhis hair.
(01:32):
I appreciate that this may behis vibe, but it's not for me.
It was also different from hislow-key style.
On our first two dates Imanaged to make it through the
happy hour, but I've beensensitive to scent for as long
as I can remember.
Should I bring up thissensitivity with him or chalk it
up to preference that anotherwoman may like?
Justin Joseph (01:50):
Okay, so we're going to get to the advice, but
let's stop right there and breakthis down.
Katy Montgomery (01:54):
Yes.
Justin Joseph (01:54):
How old?
And this viewer does not giveus her age.
How old do we think this womanis?
I'm thinking this has to besomebody, probably in their 30s
at this point I'm thinking olderas well, because she's had
enough time to know what shewants, correct, um.
But also she's very specificabout what she wants, which I
think is sort of cuts both waysand she's specific about knowing
what gives her the ick which Ithink if anyone has that gift,
(02:17):
it's you correct the ick is realand it's very hard to get past
the ick is real.
Okay, that's the name of thisepisode going forward.
The ick is real.
Katy Montgomery (02:26):
The ick is real .
Justin Joseph (02:26):
yes, so let's dive into.
So she wrote in and let's seewhat the advice columnist.
Katy Montgomery (02:31):
And so the advice says I'm confused.
Even if you sort out thecologne and I believe you have
the right to tell this manyou're sensitive to fragrance
and to ask him to come unsent atfuture meetings that still
leaves the white jeans and hairgel.
My impression from your letteris that all three are
non-starters for you and, asmuch as we might like to, we
(02:51):
don't have the right tomicromanage the aesthetic
choices of others.
Now you don't mention your ageor relationship experience, so
I'm going to tread gently here.
Your dating criteria seem a bitshallow to me.
Being able to afford anapartment in the city, a country
house and beach vacations isnot a lifestyle preference, it
is a socioeconomic condition,and wealth and appearances make
(03:13):
poor foundations for goodrelationships in my experience.
Justin Joseph (03:19):
So shockingly.
I think we're going to disagreeon this because I really think
this advice.
I think you're going to agreethat she can take those things
out and she can be.
She can have objections to them.
I think you've reached acertain point where your
objection criteria has to softenyour thoughts.
Katy Montgomery (03:36):
I mean, I do, I mean I agree with that, but I
do think that there's alsosomething to be said that if you
have a certain aesthetic and Ithink attraction is very
important and I think if hairgel and tight white jeans and
heavy cologne triggers andsignifies something to you
(03:57):
that's affiliated with somethingthat gives you the ick or that
you associate with a lot ofnegatives, it's very hard to get
past that.
Justin Joseph (04:08):
Okay, that's fine .
I think what's interesting isyou and I discussed this when we
were prepping the episode, andI think what I found interesting
is something that I had notthought about is I think when
you start dating, you're willingto take on some of the it
Correct, and as you get older,then perhaps you're less willing
to do that.
Do you agree with that?
Katy Montgomery (04:25):
Agreed, and I think if you are 50 years old
and you have particularconnotations whether or not they
are fair, accurate that areassociated with a man in tight
white jeans, gel and heavycologne, it's very hard, if
that's been ingrained in you for50 plus years, to let those go
overnight.
Justin Joseph (04:43):
Okay, but I mean, I agree, tight white jeans plus
hair gel, plus cologne.
Katy Montgomery (04:48):
It's a lot.
Justin Joseph (04:51):
It's a lot.
But would you take a man intight white jeans without the
cologne, without the hair gel,or one of the three I?
Katy Montgomery (04:59):
mean fantastic question and I'm terrified that
the listeners are going to thinkthat I'm a very superficial and
shallow person, but I'm goingto tell a story.
So I dated a guy, we had agreat time.
I ended up going back to myex-boyfriend and we had we
continued kind of a long-termrelationship, but then we
connected.
After that, said boyfriend andI broke up and I invited him to
(05:23):
a fundraising event and I saidit's suit and tie.
Now he says to me I have athree-piece suit.
And I immediately got veryanxious.
I'm like he's gonna wear a vest.
Who wears a vest?
And then I start to realize.
Justin Joseph (05:40):
And then he says it has a matching pocket watch
okay, and if I can just stop youright here, it's so interesting
to me that he felt like heneeded to run his alpha by.
He already knew that you had ahigh I don't think so.
Katy Montgomery (05:52):
I think he was very proud of his suit suit it
was three pieces, it was brownpinstripe and it had a pocket
watch and I think that is what.
Justin Joseph (06:04):
That's gross, correct.
But anyone who knows you forfive minutes, whether they're
going to be dating you or yourbest friend, knows quickly that
your, your standards are hereand they need to run by things
by agree or disagree.
Katy Montgomery (06:15):
No, I mean I disagree.
And here's the thing, if youtake that assumption and you
play that out, he clearly didn'tcare enough, because if he
thought I would care, he stillwore a three-piece suit, suit
with a pocket watch.
Justin Joseph (06:29):
Did you tell him not to wear that?
Katy Montgomery (06:30):
No, because I was at a stage in my dating life
where I'm like don't be a bitch, be generous, don't make
assumptions, it's not about whatpeople wear, but the entire-.
Justin Joseph (06:42):
Should you make a mistake and not tell him?
Should you have told the truthwhat people wear, but the entire
?
Should you make a mistake andnot tell them?
Should you have told the truth?
Katy Montgomery (06:46):
I think at that stage no, but I think the
entire time it made me cringe.
And the other day my brothermentioned oh, remember when that
guy wore a pocket watch.
And again, I'm very close to mysiblings.
So again, here I am.
I'm 51, I'm an independentwoman, but I still literally
want to crawl under the tablebecause I know, and again, I
(07:07):
want to be bigger than that, Iwant to be a kind, serviceable
person.
Justin Joseph (07:11):
But you're not.
I mean those things areimportant to you, and when you
say bigger than that, that's whoyou are.
Katy Montgomery (07:15):
Well, I mean, I aspire to not care about that
kind of stuff.
Justin Joseph (07:19):
When have you ever not cared about that?
Katy Montgomery (07:21):
But I well, I didn't tell him to change, Do
you remember?
Justin Joseph (07:24):
when you and I when you were in college and you
go to zero-two parents and youwould you would school give me a
lessons manner on how to eatand how to?
Katy Montgomery (07:30):
And you thanked me for that later.
You said it was one of the mostinstructive times of your life.
It was this advice.
I don't agree with the advice.
I've tried that.
I've tried to go beyond it.
But if you've got the ick andyou're finding certain things
unattractive and you have heavyconnotations with things that
(07:52):
make you cringe, it'suncomfortable being your real
self around someone when you'reconstantly just evaluating what
someone's doing.
And it doesn't mean you're abad person.
Announcer (08:05):
It doesn't mean that.
Katy Montgomery (08:06):
You do have aesthetic, you know preferences,
and why are we punishing peoplefor aesthetic preferences?
Justin Joseph (08:12):
I don't think we are.
I think what we're punishing isyou.
There are two things I findobjectionable about your.
Take on this, yes.
The first is that you set notonly him up for failure, you set
yourself up for failure becauseyou didn't just be honest and
say you won't wear a pocket, andyou should have told him not to
wear a pocket.
Katy Montgomery (08:28):
I think I said why would you want to wear a
pocket?
Justin Joseph (08:31):
You see, you got that.
That should have been taken on.
Absolutely not.
You will not wear an effingpocket watch at dinner with my
family.
Katy Montgomery (08:38):
It wasn't dinner with the family, it was a
fundraiser.
Justin Joseph (08:41):
It's gross, I agree with you.
A high egg factor.
We could have figuredeverything out, it's just nasty,
but you set yourself up forfailure.
Set him up for failure by nottelling the truth.
Katy Montgomery (08:52):
I think that that's easier said than done
when you are connecting withsomeone you know and it's still
kind of new.
I mean, I would like to ask youI mean we're talking about
relationship deal breakers andwhat is fair and what is
considered too superficial.
Justin Joseph (09:10):
Well, I think that that's all fair.
I mean, I can think aboutsomeone who I thought was the
love of my life, and so muchthat I would fly to his city
probably five times and beg himto be my partner, and every time
he's like stop coming here,it's not going to happen.
Katy Montgomery (09:26):
See that, to me that's a non-starter, because
he didn't want to start it withwell, we did, we.
Justin Joseph (09:31):
We started it and then he ended it, and then I
kept flying back and saying, areyou sure?
And he kept saying, yeah, I'msure, but I I think, on the
impact there were so much abouthim, that would not be who he.
Katy Montgomery (09:43):
I would be with that person today one of them
to see okay okay, so I just giveme a second because I really I
just puked in my mouth, what doyou mean?
Justin Joseph (09:56):
like he was just very casual about pooping you
have to tell them you're justlike that one.
No one is wearing that one.
Katy Montgomery (10:04):
Everybody knows that poo is the very kind and
appropriate way to not call itan F-A-R-T.
I hate the word F-A-R-T.
Justin Joseph (10:12):
I hate that word and I hate the P-word, the poo
word.
Katy Montgomery (10:16):
Anyway, could you just answer the question.
Did he poo a lot in front ofyou?
Justin Joseph (10:19):
He had no problem doing it in front of me.
Katy Montgomery (10:32):
And to me, me, that for me is high, high, eight
factors worse than thestopwatch or pocket watch,
pocket watch.
So if he was so handsome, greatcareer, really interesting
family person, values matched up.
But he just happened to be afrequent pooter a freaking
pooter around me in my face.
Justin Joseph (10:41):
Um, yeah, so I think we're gonna.
We're gonna head to break here,I think.
On the other side, let's talkabout the fact that, as you get
older, does your ink factordecrease or does it increase
because you're okay being alone.
Katy Montgomery (10:51):
We'll talk about it okay, makes sense.
You've been listening to wrongway forward, where bad advice
goes to die and then getsresurrected just so we can roast
it again that's right, Katy.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Nobody's off limits not the gurus, not the
influencers, and definitely notOprah.
Katy Montgomery (11:07):
Sorry, Oprah.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
If you're enjoying the chaos, hit like and
subscribe and come back everyThursday for new episodes.
Katy Montgomery (11:13):
Have a new topic or some disastrously bad
advice you want to dissect?
Email wrongwayforwardpodcast atgmailcom.
Include your contact info.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Now back to Wrong Way Forward.
Announcer (11:25):
Roasting the worst advice ever.
Welcome back to the Katy andjustin podcast and we're back.
Justin Joseph (11:30):
So justin before we went to the break, you posed
a question, so let's revisitthat I do want to revisit this
because I have a good girlfriendwho is in the dating pool.
I know you are as well and Ioften wonder when you're young,
you know you kind of are morechoosy because you're young and
you get to be, get get to bethat way, I think you're in
thirties or forties you're lesschoosy because you're trying to.
You're at that age where youneed to have children and you
(11:51):
maybe are a little bit more open.
Do you agree that as you getolder, in your forties, fifties,
where you're really okay beingalone, that you really do be
alone?
Katy Montgomery (12:03):
I mean, I think it's more nuanced than that,
right, I think an it factor isan it factor and you can't
control that right?
I think an it factor 20 is thesame as an it factor of 50 I
mean, I think it evolves overtime right in your exposure and
and being able to possibly, Imean I think some of those it
factors are based on kind ofsuperficial norms that might
have been disproven over time.
Justin Joseph (12:25):
And for you specifically, you have the same
it factors when you were 25 asyou do now.
Katy Montgomery (12:29):
I mean that's not fair because I haven't
cataloged all my it factors.
Justin Joseph (12:33):
But I would say Are you sure you haven't?
Because I feel like you have.
Katy Montgomery (12:38):
I appreciate that, but I'm a very busy person
, Justin.
Justin Joseph (12:41):
But I feel like that's the same for all women.
I think people know what they.
Katy Montgomery (12:44):
No, its factors are different.
It you can't anticipate Now Ican tell you on a man.
For me, tight white jeans, hairgel and cologne has been
consistent since I was probably,let's say, real interested in
boys like age 12, and I'm almost52.
Justin Joseph (13:01):
And none of the boys did.
I mean, I agree, tight whitejeans, although, yes, tie white
jeans and cologne, I guess, as Isay now, I don't agree with tie
white jeans Jocks wears cologne, occasionally Cologne, it's
heavy cologne.
Yeah, but what was the thirditem?
Hair gel, hair gel.
Have you never made asilhouette hair gel?
I mean, I'm sure I have.
Katy Montgomery (13:21):
But I was just, you know, I was raised down
South Boys were washing go.
They didn't use hair dryers,they don't use gel, like if you
said what's mousse, They'd belike I don't know, do you eat it
for dessert?
Like I.
Just so I'm just not used tothat, though I, you know.
To just kind of tell anotherstory, I used to be in a wine
club and this wine club started,you know, started, you know,
(13:46):
kind of late twenties, earlythirties, and at the very first
meeting of the wine clubeveryone was single.
It's probably very telling, I'mthe only person who's still
single, you know this many yearslater, but someone.
We played kind of a parlor gameand they said you have 20
points and you have to allocate20 points for your future
partner among four categories,and it was looks, kindness,
intelligence and humor.
Okay, and, as you could imagine, the men were high on looks,
(14:11):
the women were high on kind ofintelligence and humor, and
kindness kind of fell to thewayside yeah, that's interesting
um, and not surprising, but andat that point in my age I was
like look, if you're highlyintelligent, there's a high
likelihood you're probably smart.
And if you're smart you probablyget the kindness, because you
know if you're highlyintelligent, there's a high
likelihood you're probably smart.
And if you're smart youprobably get the kindness,
because you know if you do X,you probably going to piss
someone off until you're cleverenough.
Not the case.
So I do think this is nuanced.
(14:33):
I mean, I'm like if you get aheavy ick and it's an ick to
where you think that you can'tbe yourself and you can't treat
that person with love andkindness and respect, I think
you kind of call it off.
If you feel like you're alwayscringing around them, you're
always having to compensate forthem.
You're always having to kind ofexplain why they're doing
something.
Because you find ituncomfortable or you don't like
(14:55):
it.
I think it's not good enough.
But I do think if you can getpast the ick and I think the
question really comes to thecrux of this is can she get over
the ick?
Justin Joseph (15:08):
And let me ask you this can you coach through
the ick?
I think that you did not dowith stopwatch man or pocket
watch man.
You didn't take the opportunityto say don't wear a vest,
please.
It makes me out you could.
You were the queen of this.
I love you, bud.
Do not wear a pocket watch tothe party.
Burn your vests.
And I forgot what the thirdthing was it was a suit suit.
Katy Montgomery (15:26):
I don't think that's like stripes I think it
was kind of like the suit thatyou would think a little bit of
bob and bob in my life a littlebit.
Justin Joseph (15:34):
You don't remember that song.
I feel like if you liked him,you'd call it a seersucker it
was not a seersucker.
Katy Montgomery (15:42):
I can I can spot a seersucker about two
miles away and I literally wouldrun towards a seersucker about
two miles away.
And I literally would runtowards a seersucker.
I would run towards aseersucker.
Justin Joseph (15:50):
You didn't like it was a seersucker.
If you liked it, it would havebeen a seersucker.
Katy Montgomery (15:54):
Oh my God, if it was a seersucker I'd be like.
I feel, like my ring size is.
Justin Joseph (16:01):
I still, but I you know, kimberly, do you agree
with me on this point?
You have always had highstandards.
That is not something toapologize for, it's something to
acknowledge, and do you-.
Katy Montgomery (16:09):
Hey, I'm going to be honest.
I think probably the wrong wayforward is, you know, and I
think probably some listenersare going to be like, high
standards are not white jeans,hair gel, and you know, you know
high standards are.
You want someone of integrity,you want someone who's committed
to family.
You want someone who's honest.
(16:30):
You want someone you know whois, you know hardworking, and
those are things that I want.
But I also want to be highlyattractive and I don't want to
cringe if one of my brotherrefers to something from a
boyfriend years ago and Iimmediately like changing the
subject so fast because I startto get embarrassed.
Justin Joseph (16:47):
I just think it's interesting because you know I
might, like I may, have it mucheasier to move into the dating
world.
Katy Montgomery (16:55):
Well, I mean, and I just don't want us to
forget, justin, that if anybodypoops in front of you, it's
completely over.
Justin Joseph (17:02):
That is a deal breaker.
You should be out the door.
And, yes, I don't care ifyou're a zoot suit or not, and
whatever, a surf sucker or not.
Yes, there we go All right,we're coming to the time of the
show.
We're going to look at ourviewer emails from our last
segment.
Katy Montgomery (17:24):
Why don't you take us in and tell us what
we've got and what we?
We talked about our you knowbeloved Oprah.
Well, your beloved Oprah, andyou know Oprah gave advice at a
Stanford commencement speechthat said your emotion should be
your GPS.
You should always follow whatyour emotions and I think you
know.
For me it was more of like look, you know, when emotions are
taking over, you're losing kindof the logic, you're losing kind
of the real facts and the dataand you can kind of tell
(17:45):
yourself stories that can sendyou away.
And so we did hear from somereaders and I'm sure Justin, I'm
seeing you smirking- over here.
Justin Joseph (17:55):
One of the readers actually starts by Tom
Quiddy and then does a quickturn and backhands me, so you'll
like this one yeah please share.
I don't always do shared emailsthat are critical of me, but,
Katy, you tried to rewritehistory saying you were always
impressed by opera love thatpoint.
You do always do that.
But justin taught youred-handed that factually
incorrect button idea genius,please get it installed.
(18:16):
So she thinks that you need oneof those to buzz me correct,
correct.
Katy Montgomery (18:22):
So let's see what I heard.
So you were so right to callout Justin's story about lying
at work.
It's a perfect example of whatyou're talking about Letting
emotional and personal desiretake over.
Do you think Justin's factuallyincorrect moments on the
broadcast are just his emotionalbrain running wild?
And how did you handle that?
Yeah, I mean, they don't solveit for me money.
Justin Joseph (18:44):
Well, and how did you handle that?
Yeah, I mean, they don't solveit for me just.
Well, clement, this is becominga trend line because you push
it all the time and I'mfactually and actually again.
Another one of my emails says Ilove.
This is touching.
I love how justin sharesheartfelt oprah story is true
framed autographs, sneaking outof the prosecutor's office just
to see her.
And Katy's big contribution istelling us he needs he reads
(19:06):
teleprompters when he's nervousGirl.
He's living his best job of herlife, don't it?
And you're here trying tonarrate like a jealous stage
manager, calling me factuallycorrect.
Did your husband send that in?
No, it doesn't say correct.
Okay, let's see.
I think.
Katy Montgomery (19:21):
I've got one more to share.
It seems like Justin relies onhis gut feeling a lot, even
though you provided clear as anevidence that it's a flawed
approach.
How do you maintain aproductive co-hosting
relationship when your podcastpartner dismisses your logical
professional advice?
Justin Joseph (19:39):
Well, I disagree with that.
Katy Montgomery (19:40):
I need to, I need to address this reader.
It's it's very difficult, it'svery hard and I'm working on it.
Justin Joseph (19:47):
Well, let me also say I do actually think you
have that's what I think youbring to the podcast.
I think you are this, as, outof the many episodes we've done,
this one I think you are mostlyright on.
Like I give you a 70-30 righton oh, my gosh, yeah.
So usually we say we're goingto disagree on this.
I thought I did not agree onhow you took on Oprah, but I did
not disagree with how you tookon her advice.
Katy Montgomery (20:11):
Well, if Oprah ever calls.
Justin Joseph (20:12):
I'll let you sit next to her.
Here's my final one.
Let's be real.
Justin shows up with quotes,data and a killer Oprah
backstory.
Katy shows up with you look oldin a suit and some elephant fan
fiction.
Sorry, but this isn a NationalGeographic, it's a podcast.
Give me justice.
Check your logic over yourtrust, your emotional elephant.
Any day of the week that personhad it for you.
Katy Montgomery (20:33):
I mean, they clearly hate my guts, but I
think it's so irrational that Ireally don't care.
Justin Joseph (20:39):
All right.
Well, when we come back, youknow, in segment three, we
always do our.
Let's talk about this.
Yes, you want to give a previewof what we're talking about
this week.
Katy Montgomery (20:45):
So let's talk about.
This is going to be kind of atopic again.
You know, justin, and I try notto talk about this ahead of
time, so, but my guess is we'renot going to agree, we're going
to talk about NetVote maybe.
So we'll be back in just asecond.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
Thanks for streaming Wrong Way Forward the weekly
reminder that advice is usuallyfree.
For a reason we call out badadvice wherever it hides
boardrooms, break rooms and evenbook clubs.
Katy Montgomery (21:10):
Enjoying this dumpster fire Like subscribe and
check back every Thursday fornew episodes.
Want us to roast your favoritepiece of nonsense?
Email us atwrongwayforwardpodcast at
gmailcom.
Be sure to include your contactinfo.
We're not psychic, justjudgmental.
And now back to Wrong WayForward.
Announcer (21:29):
Roasting the worst advice ever.
Welcome back to the Katy andJustin podcast.
Justin Joseph (21:33):
All right.
So welcome back to segmentthree, where we talk about can
we talk about it?
This is a segment that, forwhatever reason had it, could be
a hot topic.
It could be something that yousaw or I saw, that sparked
something that makes you want tocomment.
This week we're talking aboutnepo babies.
It's been a topic that's beenon a lot of people's minds for
some time.
Katy Montgomery (21:52):
It has been, it has been.
And I mean my general kind oftake on this is I think there's
some really amazing nepo babiesout there.
Oh, I think Jamie Lee Curtisno-transcript.
Justin Joseph (22:32):
Think that's what we're talking about.
Katy Montgomery (22:33):
But I think I mean again, neither one of those
are parents.
But you know, if I had a childand you know, and I would want
them to have, you know, reallythe drive and the motivation to
kind of do what they needed todo, but if I had access to an
internship or if I could give mynieces or nephews, you know,
feedback on you know, I'veworked at Georgetown and see a
(22:54):
lot of Johns Hopkins If I couldgive them insight into kind of
what they were looking for forfuture applicants, I would share
that.
So I think that's a really hardline and a boundary that we
can't kind of clearly draw and Ithink if we're seeing people
take these roles and reallyexcel, it's not fair for them to
be burdened by the you're aNEPA baby Right.
Justin Joseph (23:14):
And this is your email.
When we talked about that wewere going to do this.
Someone said Justin and Katy.
I agree with your take on NEPAbabies, but Katy clearly is from
an affluent upbringing.
Katy Montgomery (23:31):
Isn't that the same thing?
How do you feel about that?
Justin Joseph (23:32):
Well, I I can tell this person that I've had a
job since I was, but you had aleg up.
I think that's her point isthat you had came from an
affluent family.
Katy Montgomery (23:37):
I would not say affluent, I would say highly
educated, that really promotededucation.
Justin Joseph (23:42):
Isn't that enough of a leg up?
Yeah.
Katy Montgomery (23:46):
And I don't think that.
I think that it would be veryodd for a parent to not be
actively engaged.
And you know, I think I read ina study that they said one of
the greater, greatest indicatorsof success is if your child
goes to summer camp like sleepaway summer camp.
And it makes sense, right, youcan afford sleep away summer
camp.
You makes sense, right, you canafford sleep away summer camp.
You're a certain socioeconomicstatus with that Tom's education
(24:07):
, money, opportunity.
So you know, what do peopleexpect people to do?
Like step back and not givekind of those children
opportunities.
And, to be completely honest,if my preference would be a nepo
baby over like a Kardashian whomade a sex tape and does cheap
reality TV, you know, if I hadmy choice, I mean, I think the
(24:28):
ultimate question is, is theretalent there?
Justin Joseph (24:31):
Number one.
But I think we can both agreethat we were given sort of a leg
up just because of that.
Katy Montgomery (24:36):
A hundred percent.
Justin Joseph (24:37):
We were made to go to college.
That alone is a step up over alot of the population.
And so you know, and for a nepobaby, there are some out there
and I, you know, I watched gildaday.
She has a nepo baby of a veryfamous austria winning actress
and I thought she was terriblein seasons one through I mean
I'll just say her, and she'smeryl streep's daughter.
And I thought she, she, wasterrible in seasons one through
(24:58):
three, but by season four shefound herself.
Is she meryl streep?
No, will she ever be MerylStreep?
No, but that bar is high.
But there are plenty of Nepobabies that probably shouldn't
have gotten.
Katy Montgomery (25:08):
Yeah, but I mean I think that there's also
Nepo babies, that I don't wantpeople to take away the fact
that they are fantastic.
And I look at like I don't knowif anyone here has been
watching the Pit on HBO, but Ithink it's absolutely fantastic,
the pit on HBO, but I thinkit's absolutely fantastic.
And Bryan Cranston, who's afantastic actor known for
Breaking Bad, his daughterTaylor's on that role on that
(25:30):
series and she's absolutelyfantastic.
And it made me a little sadwhen she became attached to her
dad, because I knew people wouldsay she only got it because of
that, when in all reality shehad a different last name and,
to be completely honest, Icouldn't have picked her out as
a lineup as her a different lastname and, to be completely
honest, I couldn't picture outas a lineup as her but her
casting was strong.
I mean maybe who knows, butshe's really fantastic in the
(25:52):
role well, I think that that'sfine.
Justin Joseph (25:54):
So if you had to give a, a letter grade, or a
number grade in terms of yourbeing okay with devil babies,
you would say what?
Katy Montgomery (26:02):
I mean, I would say, you know a scale of one to
ten, you know I would probablygive it a six or seven, you know
?
Justin Joseph (26:08):
yeah, I'm okay with it and I would definitely
be underneath that.
I'd be more against it than Iam, and part of it's just
because I'm someone who's workedhard, as you have, and so I
don't compete in a fair playingfield, and it bothers me when
someone gets something, anadvantage that I can't have and
I can't compete in.
I could never have a.
Katy Montgomery (26:27):
Yeah, but I mean you were born in America as
a white male, I mean youalready had advantage.
So I think and that's the thingthat's a problem is assigning
someone and slapping on Nepobaby takes away all of the
nuance and all of the otheradvantages that all other people
have doesn't also slapping onyou were born and why I may have
did the same thing I mean yes,but those are those still that
(26:52):
are in our society areconsidered advantages.
That would you.
It will take you off the firstbase and get you closer to home
run I don't disagree at all.
Justin Joseph (27:01):
And you know, in the end, even if you're a nepo
baby and you're put on a goodmovie or whatever, you still
have to prove you still have to.
Katy Montgomery (27:07):
And let's be honest, if you fail as an Epo
baby, the fall is much moreintense and much more trauma
related.
Because when you fail, it isfront cover, page six, National
Enquirer, people magazine,people magazine, entertainment
tonight.
So you don't fail quietly, youfail in the public eye.
Justin Joseph (27:27):
It's a bigger fault yes, correct, and there's
some classic.
There's some big examples ofnevo babies that have had, you
know, twice the spotlightbecause of them and I'm trying
to think of anything that comesto mind right now, but there
have been some classic examplesof nevo babies um, the woman who
got her kids into college, loriwell she cheated, but her
children were at that pointsuccessful on their own because
(27:48):
of her name, I think they hadfashion lines or whatever they
had.
Katy Montgomery (27:52):
But when she failed, or when they all failed,
it was a big false and nowanybody Googles those kids,
they're going to know that theywere part of a cheating college
scandal.
Yes, 100%.
Justin Joseph (28:03):
I think it's an interesting conversation.
It's interesting that there'sbeen on everybody's mind so much
like there.
People have strong opinions onthis right.
Katy Montgomery (28:09):
You know, whatever side you come down and
I think it comes back to what isthis podcast about and is the
wrong way forward.
What is the right way forwardif you have a child and let's
let's narrow this down tohollywood you're from hollywood,
you have a child who'sincredibly interested in
hollywood.
What do you do?
Justin Joseph (28:28):
yeah, and I might .
This brings back to the story.
I was john.
My brother's a very, very smartperson.
He's in medicine.
For those of you don't know,that's the.
You know you have to have acertain iq to get into that
program.
You have to test it genius andso yes, and so when I was young,
in second, my brotherimmediately tested into gifted
and talented and my mother wasliterally dragging me by the
shirt up to the principal'soffice Once a year, say test
(28:51):
Justin.
And they were like he's notgifted and talented, stop
bringing it up.
Katy Montgomery (28:56):
I was in talented and gifted.
Justin Joseph (28:59):
But the point is is like she was trying to give
me a leg up that I didn'tdeserve and I didn't get.
Katy Montgomery (29:04):
And it probably felt like not amazing.
Justin Joseph (29:07):
Yeah, it's traumatic Telling a story what
51 years later, I could reallyremember, like in the back of my
mind.
I heard him he's not so and yes, no, I was not so anyway.
Katy Montgomery (29:19):
But?
But when we talk about kind ofwrong way forward, right, let's
try to flip it before we signoff today.
What is the right way forwardfor NEPA babies?
Justin Joseph (29:29):
Or for a parent who was trying to get their
children to that job.
Katy Montgomery (29:33):
Yes, I love that and any parent will.
It would be odd if you weren't.
Justin Joseph (29:36):
Yeah, and you want that kind of parent right?
I love that my mother was in mycorner and I.
You know, if I had children andI'm sure if you did too we
would be doing the same thing.
So the right way forward is topush and push and push to get
your children the advantage theydeserve.
Katy Montgomery (29:58):
I think maybe the wrong way forward is when
you try and take advantage ofyour name or your position to
get that done, and I think it's.
I think probably the wrong wayforward is having your children
thinking they're entitled to it.
Probably the wrong way forwardis having your children thinking
they're entitled to it, butmaybe opening a door, but really
sending out the message thathard work, education,
perseverance, you know, andreally honing one's craft is
what's going to be kind of inthe long run success A hundred
percent.
Justin Joseph (30:17):
So our next episode we're going to talk
about one of our favorite topicspet peeves.
Do you have some ideas?
Please email us.
Yes.
Katy Montgomery (30:24):
It's at the wrong way forward.
Podcast at gmailcom.
And again we'd like to remindeveryone we really appreciate
all our listeners.
Please follow us on our socialmedia accounts.
We'll share those at the end ofthis episode.
But also, if you enjoy ourpodcast, make sure to follow us
and you can always leave a greatreview.
Thanks so much.
We enjoyed chatting with y'alltoday.
Justin Joseph (30:44):
We'll see you next week.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
All right, that's a wrap on this week's episode of
Wrong Way Forward.
Remember, the only thing worsethan taking bad advice is giving
it.
Katy Montgomery (30:52):
If you've liked what you've heard, like
subscribe or follow us whereveryou stream podcast, and if
you've got a topic or need someadvice, we'll probably regret
giving email us atwrongwayforwardpodcast at
gmailcom.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Wrong
Way Forward.
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