Kendrick Sampson: "I'm Not Built For One Relationship" Redefining Masculinity & Sexual Liberation

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome back to the XO man

(00:01):
podcast.
I'm your host Piara Walker.
Today I'll be talking with
Kendrick Sampson.
He's an actor, activist and all
around deep thinker.
I really enjoyed the
conversation I had with him
and I can't wait for you guys to
hear about it.
Literally I'm like one
relationship it makes me
question my life.
The only common
denominator is that it's divine.

(00:24):
That's it.
It doesn't look a certain way.
It doesn't feel a certain way.
We're taught to stay away
from politics and religion.
I was always the one to go
towards what we're taught
not to because I'm curious.
Why?
Why?
Those are the juiciest topics.
You know I'm like why is this
so bad?
I'm here for a good time, not a

(00:45):
long time.
I like big butts and I cannot lie.
You ain't ever going to
understand God.
understand love fully.
You're not ever going to
understand peacefully.
These are not things that you
can you know put science to.
We're talking about love, what
masculinity is, what it isn't and
if we can even really define it
and his passion for social
justice and just making

(01:06):
making sure that he is
creating a space for people to
feel safe to open up and share.
He's the go-to guy for that.
I'm surprised but then again
I'm not.
Take a listen to this
conversation that I had with
Kendrick Sampson.
Welcome to the XO Man
Podcast.
I'm your host, Kiara Walker.
They say men don't talk.
They hold it all in, never let

(01:27):
their guard down.
But here we like to do things
differently.
I sit down with black men
from all walks of life.
Actors, singers, entrepreneurs,
athletes and everyday guys to
peel back the layers of who
they are beyond the
stereotypes.
A space where black men get
to be real, raw and unfiltered.
We're talking about
relationships, love, success,

(01:49):
struggles, fears and the parts
of masculinity that don't
always get the spotlight.
Some conversations will
challenge what you think you
know.
Some might make you laugh
and some might just make
you look at the men in your
life a little differently.
So whether you're here to
learn or just hear some dope
conversations, you're in the
right place.
So pull up, listen in and let's
have the conversations that

(02:10):
matter.
It's time for the XO Man
Podcast to begin.
All right, you guys, welcome
back to the XO Man Podcast.
I'm your host, Kiara Walker.
And this is the place where we
explore the lives, the loves and
the lessons of extraordinary
men, what we like to call the
XO Men.
So today I have Kendrick

(02:32):
Sampson with us.
I'm going to throw some
round of applause.
You know what I'm saying?
What's up?
I like the tease.
I see what you did there.
I'm feeling it.
You know, I got to represent
my h-town.
That's Chris Period on
Instagram, Christina Rogers.

(02:55):
She, black woman with tech,
went to dental school and
puts the retainers and
protective layers in the grill.
She's really incredible.
Oh, wow.
Game changer.
I was telling your publicist
earlier before you got on, I
grew up in Texas too.

(03:16):
Now I'm not from Houston,
but I love the city and the city
loves me.
Okay.
I used to live in Grand Prairie
outside of Dallas.
I mean, you know, Dallas is
cool, but when it comes to the
Houston, Dallas beef, I'm on
Houston side every day.
You already know what it is.
Exactly.

(03:37):
So what part of Houston are
you from?
I'm from the Southwest.
I grew up in most city.
I grew up mostly in most
cities.
That's what, that's what a
claim.
That's where I spent most of
my time with my family.
A lot.
Most of my family still lives.
Some of them are in
Sunnyside, South Park, mostly
on the South side.

(03:59):
But yeah, that's, that's where I
was born and raised.
I went to a different school
every year.
So I went to school in Houston
and in Fort Bend.
But yeah, that's where I'm
from.
That's a lot of school
switching.
Every, every, every year.
Why?
Um, just moving or were you a

(04:21):
troublemaker?
No, there was some, some,
they weren't a good fit.
You know, uh, yeah, my, me
and my brother, even
sometimes we went to
different schools.
So he went to like Briargate.
I went to Edgar Glover.
Like we went to, so it was, it

(04:43):
was pretty, it was complex, but
it was like behavioral.
It was education.
It was a bunch of stuff.
It was, yeah.
Well, I can see that, but I'm
glad that the transition into
adulthood, using your mouth
and disrupting stuff for good,
not for trouble, you know?

(05:05):
Good trouble.
Good trouble.
I was always a curious kid.
I was always very, very curious.
Like, like why?
Like why are you telling me to
do that?
Like why?
What's the reason for it?
What you trying to, and I
need, you know, I need to
answer, you know, every once
in a while.
Yeah.
It helps when you have some
understanding.

(05:25):
So you know why you're doing
the things you do.
You don't want to be a sheep.
Got healthy critiquing skills in
my childhood.
So I want to talk more about
your childhood, but before I
do that and mess everything
up, all the planning we did, we
got to play an icebreaker.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Cool.
Cool.
Cool.
Okay.
So our icebreaker is red flag,

(05:46):
green flag.
I'm going to present like some
sort of situation, question,
whatever.
And you tell me what you
think, um, like your real
feelings, the real Kendrick.

(06:09):
Okay.
Okay.
So I'll do, um, I'll do an easy
one.
Okay.
She thinks Dallas is the
superior Texas city.
Oh, that's sad.
Poe misguided baby.
Oh, it's time.
It's always going to be.
Yeah.
And most city, if you really
want to put it in, she probably

(06:30):
likes to tussle if she's already
coming out the gate saying
that like, who says that?
Okay.
Calling you pet names.
Most of the time from the job,
never by your name.
Red flag.
Yeah.
Oh, they're supposed to write
red flag, green flag.
Yeah.
Huge red flag on Dallas.

(06:52):
Huge red flag on getting too
comfortable too soon.
I can't do.
Yeah, no red.
Okay.
What about if you, um, you
meet a woman and so she's
very vocal on social media and
she is constantly challenging
traditional gender roles online.

(07:13):
Right.
But behind the scenes, she
really does want those
traditional gender roles.
She just be on the internet
talking crazy.
I mean, green flag, I'm cool
with it.
I mean, if she, if that's what
she really wants and she
knows why she wanted, you
know, if, as long as she ain't
looking for the abusive, uh,
you know, status quo, like you,

(07:33):
you, you like no toxicity.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean like, you know, I'm, I
don't, yeah, we can get into
that, but I'm not into
traditional at all, but I also
understand the purpose of it
and depending on what the
tradition is.
But the real issue is she's
saying one thing on the
internet, but is living her life a

(07:53):
different way.
Would that bother you?
Or it's like, I don't really care
what you do on the internet.
That's not real.
It's not that it's just with this
specific example, like if you, if
you're not, if you're not
exercising the values in, in real
life, if you are saying your
values are different online and
your values and that you
exercise in life are fucked up, if

(08:16):
they're harmful, if they are not
what you say you are, then
then I can't get with it.
That's a red flag that's done.
But in this case, if she's sitting
there like, you know, saying,
Hey, I'm challenging
traditional gender roles, you
know, you don't have to do
that and you should challenge
them and you should

(08:37):
question them.
And at the end of the day,
what I've questioned them,
and this is where I fall on the
spectrum.
Um, I don't think that's
hypocritical as much as it is
your choice.
But if she is saying, if she's
saying like adamantly, like, you
know, I wouldn't ever do that.
I wouldn't ever.
And then it's doing it behind
the scenes.
And yeah, that's a red flag.

(08:58):
But if it's just like, that's her,
that's her choice.
Where she falls.
Then I think that's fine.
Okay.
I'll do like two more.
So let's say she's highly driven
and focused on her career and
believes that building a strong
relationship can only happen
after she's achieved all of her

(09:19):
personal goals.
Green flag.
Green flag.
Okay.
You can wear it around.
Like get, get to your thing.
Last one.
Okay.
You meet a girl, everything's
cool and she lets you know

(09:39):
she's Polly and she wants to
know if you might want to join
this relationship that she
already has, or y'all can be
together and look for
someone else.
Is that a red flag or green flag?
I am.
Um, I am.

(10:01):
made and geared toward, uh,
side nigga.
So I'm not, I wouldn't be the
one in the relationship.
So I'm not saying y'all want,
you want me to join for a look,
a couple of seconds, a little
razzle dazzle.
I'm here for a good time, not a
long time, but um, but I, yeah,

(10:22):
yeah.
If you asking me to be in a
relationship, I don't want one
relationship, so I damn sure
don't want two.
Um, that's a lot of
communicating.
Yeah, that's a whole lot of
personality.
A lot of personalities, a lot of
moods.
Yeah, a lot of space to carve
out in your schedule.
That's, that's a lot to deal with.

(10:44):
I have met some poly people
who are like, it's a, I can't
remember what the number
of people in that total
relationship was, but
somebody pulled up their
Google calendar.
It was for the week.
I thought it was for a month.
That's a lot.
So, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Yeah, nah, I, yeah, I mean, like,

(11:05):
yeah, yeah, I'm like, literally, I'm
like one relationship, it makes
me question my life.
You know, two heartbreaks,
two, two betrayals, two
conflicts at a time when I still
got work to do and I got
family and all of a sudden, I
mean, y'all got me bugged.
I, I, I really, I would, now, now, if

(11:27):
you want me to come up and
come in and spice up your
relationship, as long as y'all
don't bring no drama on my
front door, you know what I'm
saying?
Y'all got some understandings
and agreements, clear, then
listen, I'm all for poly
relationships.
I encourage them for people
that can handle it.

(11:48):
Not for me.
Yeah, you can, you can come
in and be Mr.
Fix It and go on about your
day.
Yeah, I fix things, you know
what I'm saying?
I'm good with my hands.
I'm a handy, handyman.
Okay, we're gonna get into
that later, but before we get
into that, I wanna know, like,
just a little bit more about

(12:09):
who you are and maybe how
you came into who you are
today.
So, like, we already talked
about you growing up in
Texas.
You were getting in trouble.
At what point did you know

(12:29):
that you had a passion for
acting?
I mean, I knew- Or did you fall
into it?
No, I always knew I was a
storyteller.
I, like, I was a storyteller.
didn't put it that way.
I say that now, but I loved
reading.

(12:50):
I loved, but I read so slow, but I
would stay in a book.
I would sleep with books.
I didn't sleep with, like, stuffed
animals and shit.
I slept with books, so, and
then I didn't sleep much.
I've been, had insomnia since I
was a kid.
So my mom would hear, like,
the books hitting the floor, you
know, throughout the night as

(13:11):
they fell out the bed.
But yeah, I was always super,
super steeped in the story.
Even with music, my whole
family was into music, not as a
career.
They had other careers, if you
could call them that, some of
them, and other, you know,
and my mom was, like, did

(13:32):
sales, you know.
So it wasn't, like, there was no
art, like, career in my family, or
path in my family, but yeah.
But everybody was a
storyteller.
Everybody's a good storyteller,
and everybody loved music,
and I loved the story in the

(13:52):
music, right?
Like, I loved connecting to
that.
I loved the story that the
melody told.
And when I finally got,
probably around fifth grade,
sixth grade, I got a chance to
do an acting, like, class in one
of my new schools, you know.
I came to a new school, had to
reinvent myself every year,
and they had, like, a program

(14:13):
where, it was, like, a church
school, but they had plays in
the chapel.
And yeah, I fell in love, and it
was, like, oh, shit, and you ain't
gotta learn no music?
And I was, like, this and so
much.
And then my brother wasn't

(14:33):
interested in it.
I have a lot of siblings.
Nobody was interested in this,
and I'm a solo dolo.
I'm a, me, myself, and I, I can
spend, we have a lot of fun
together.
We're a good time, and we're
all we need.
If I didn't have to go to the
grocery store, I wouldn't.
But, like, for real, when I found,

(14:56):
in the same way that I could
be wrapped up in them books,
when I found that was.
my own little space that
nobody else could be in and I
was away from my family and
I was away from me and I
could just like delve into like
just completely uh immerse
myself into some sort of
character some sort of story
um I fell in love and I didn't
look back and I started telling

(15:17):
my mom you know I really
want to be an actor because I
found out people get paid for
this and I was always out there
doing impressions when I'm
storytelling I'm like telling
people using people's voices
and like in mimicking Bill
Clinton and Tina Turner when
I was like little and I was
country as fuck and uh and so
they found it really fascinating
that I could take on these

(15:38):
characters when I figured out I
could do that in my own little
space and yeah I was like hey I
want to do this and my mom
said okay here's a newspaper
uh find an agent I'm not going
to do the work but if you do
the work then I'll take you to
class or whatever it is so I
found an agent in a
newspaper and I called them

(15:59):
up and they were like what is
this 10 year old kid doing
calling my phone called my
mom like is this okay she was
like yeah as long as he handles
himself and that's how I got
an actor started uh six six
three oh wow so you started in
Texas started in Texas it was a
much different uh industry
back then was the tail end of

(16:21):
Texas uh Austin being the like
independent filmmaking
capital of the world it was like
uh huge and now you see the
tax incentives uh they're
saying are going up in Texas
for a second time in two years
up to 489 million dollars
they're trying to go back to
their their heyday which was

(16:44):
where um pretty much what
built South by Southwest like
uh this um uh Richard
Linklater and a bunch of folks
went down to Austin who's
from Houston by the way you
know it is idiot with it um
people and went went out to
went to Houston I mean went
to Austin and started
developing um the culture of

(17:08):
filmmaking and like uh
building up like the workforce
there well basically offering
skill and like teaching people
about independent film and it
eventually became like the
industry that is it built the
industry that um that uh
exists in Austin now and then
when I was a kid it was Friday
Night Lights that was filming

(17:30):
uh in Austin and and some
other projects but those were
like the big things in New
Orleans had just started to
take a lot of the business so I
had to go to Austin I had to
drive to Austin I had to drive to
Dallas for like commercial
catalog stuff I had to drive to
New Orleans um and I was like

(17:51):
14, 15, 16, 17 you know going
sometimes really often by
myself um to these auditions
for the bigger projects like the
Fantasia Barino story I
remember I auditioned for
that um had to drive all the
way to New Orleans for that

(18:11):
um but yeah that's what I
started you know really early
doing um in Houston it was
more work like voiceovers uh
some commercials and um I
did like a church's chicken
commercial in Austin a lot of
big commercials shot in
Austin and then um uh

(18:32):
industrial was a big one in
Houston so you got paid to do
these industrial films for like
UT Health or you know you
know them them don't do
drug kind of thing yeah like
you know when you get into
this situation no don't kiss me
that was my first one of my
first like acting jobs yeah okay

(18:53):
yeah I remember seeing those
in school and when they
would do the MAD program or
the DARE program and you
have these like skits and little
series everybody's in the gym
yeah I remember those I
wonder if I ever saw you
probably not I'm probably
older than you okay it was
embarrassing but I met what
did people in school say did

(19:14):
they ever see any of your work
when you were like but you
know we're all kind of kind of
country so they like when I got
the church's chick they was
like hey chicken boy oh shit
that's it chicken boy you know
and was really serious like
about you know or church's
chicken whatever it was
anyway and then um but but

(19:36):
yeah I didn't want anybody to
see them the the don't you
think they saw but they
laughed I met my ex uh from
high school you know that I
did go on one of those shoots
it was like the first time um
she uh she because we had to

(19:57):
kiss in the in the audition And
I thought she was fine.
So I was like, you know, I tried
to partner with her.
I was like, I could, you know,
we could practice, you know, I
was like, I can help you, help
you get comfortable with it.
And we ended up being in
that together.
So that was a good thing that

(20:17):
came out of it.
One of the first, I actually don't
think I've ever told this.
This is actually funny.
I don't think I've even thought
about this since it happened,
but my first, I had a big
4Runner, Toyota 4Runner that
I used to run around.
And it was red and it was the
same one that I grew up in.
It was a 1991 Toyota 4Runner.

(20:40):
Yeah.
And they wanted to use it in
that project for like, I'm pulling
up to her house or whatever,
but you know, it's low budget.
So they're like, can you use
your car?
And this is like my first project
and they paid me.
I don't know, like a couple
thousand dollars or, you know,
I'm a kid.
I'm like, man, I'm rich.

(21:00):
I'm rich.
I got money.
Yeah.
And so I'm trying to do a really
good job and it might not
even been that much, it
might've been like a
thousand, but anyway, I got in
my truck and I had her and
I'm trying to impress her, you
know, I'm driving and I just
learned how to drive and I
think I was like 15, had my

(21:21):
permit and I, instead of
reversing, I went forward.
I pressed the gas and the
producer's car was in front of
me and I hit the producer's
car and I was like, yeah, I
started, my armpits started
sweating out, my butthole got

(21:42):
tight.
I was sitting there like, oh, and
I'm looking like, damn, I
embarrassed.
I'm sitting here like, yeah, I'm
gonna drive, make her
impressed.
And she looking at me like,
did you just hit the producer's
car?
Right.
Is this going to affect my job?
Right.
Might have to get some
distance from you.

(22:02):
Yes.
Yeah.
Put my life in danger.
You know how to drive.
Yeah.
So I know that you said that
your mom was supportive as
long as you were doing what
you were supposed to do.
What about your dad and
your brothers and the men in
your life?
Were they pretty supportive or
what did they think of the
acting stuff?

(22:26):
Um, at the time, it depends on
which one.
I got a big family.
Um, I got, I have 10 in all.
I have seven siblings from my
parents and then three god
siblings.
So, and I got like 25 nephews
and nieces and we fertile over

(22:48):
here, my G.
Yeah, the men in my family,
um, don't miss, uh, two of
them got five each.
Um, yeah, potent.
Um, and so it's a, it's a, it's a
miracle.
I've made it this far without

(23:09):
any kids.
Um, but, but they are
hilarious.
All of them are quirky.
They all are really interesting.
Um, one of them was in prison
at the time and he, he, I mean,
he would get a, every time I

(23:29):
had anything and I mean, it
could be two seconds, uh, one
line, he would get all of his
homies in there with them to
watch and then like write little
letters, you know, cause they
using every little inch of the
paper to write letters and stuff.
They would be writing in the
margins.
Like, ah, man, we just saw this
blah, blah, blah.
And so, you know, that was

(23:50):
actually really dope.
I mean, he's been super
supportive.
Um, both the, I mean, my
other brothers have been
supportive as well, but not like
that, like some of them might
have had some shit to say if
we got into an argument or
something, you know, or, you
know, yeah, it was a lot.
My dad, my dad, my dad, my

(24:11):
dad.
Man, my dad, my dad, uh,
yeah, he's supportive is, is a
really interesting.
I don't know if I could
characterize it as supportive.
As that?
Yeah.

(24:31):
He wasn't against it.
Um, he's very, he's very proud,
but he's one of the people
he's, you know, he had a rough
life, a very rough life.
And he like fought in Vietnam.
He was born in 47.
Uh, he was born before
segregation ended in rural,
rural, rural, rural, rural

(24:53):
Louisiana.
Most people in Louisiana don't
know this time.
It's like a backwards, it's, it's,
it's Grand Canyon and so yeah,
but yeah, you know, but yeah,

(25:23):
so, so yeah, he had a difficult
he was drafted, you know,
orphaned.
So, you know, he took that into
his relationships and his

(25:44):
communication.
Sometimes it was, you know,
fucked up.
So, you know, I wouldn't say
like supportive, but you know,
he wasn't out of my life.
He was he showed up, you
know, you might not always
want him to he was about his
business.
You don't need not somebody
to fuck with too much.
But he he he's one of those

(26:07):
people and I have to watch
myself because I'm kind of like
this where I'll like if I'm I'll brag
about you all day talk about
you 24 seven to everybody
and be like man so and so is
doing so good and like I did at
the beginning.
That's just how I am like man.
This is Christina like a
Christina.
I mean, I've known her since

(26:28):
high school.
She's from Houston.
She may be like that.
That's you know, that's how I
am.
But then to the people I might
not talk to you for two months.
I might not and it hasn't that
don't mean nothing.
It's not no love loss.
I'm not mad at you.
Yeah, I'm a Pisces.

(26:49):
I'm a Virgo.
My sister is a Pisces.
Yeah, she can be that way
sometimes.
Yeah, yeah.
Sometimes I get it like, you
know, I love you, but I got
other things to do.
I haven't even thought about
it.
To me.
I'm still you're on my mind all
the time.
Um, so my dad would brag

(27:10):
about me to my siblings and
other people like he doesn't
talk to me and we ain't talked
in a year or whatever, you
know, yeah.
So, you know, I do know
through other people how
proud he is and how much he
brags about me, but he don't
necessarily say it to me.
I know he'll probably see this

(27:30):
and be like, Do you wish that
he would tell you these
things?
Would you like that?
At this point in your life if he
would be vocal with you?
Um, he's vocal.
He's interesting.
He started like he's 73, four,
whatever.
And he just started using

(27:51):
emojis and stuff.
So yeah, you know, I'm like, it's
weird.
But you know, he's he's he
tries he, you know, tries to, I
think, I don't know.
But, you know, to be honest, I
don't miss it.
I do.
In other ways, meaning I don't
necessarily, we had some bad

(28:15):
blood.
I still love him.
And I understand him.
I want to understand him
more and more.
So I understand more about
myself.
And you know, what I where
my flaws are, where I can go,
you know, how bad my
can, how harsh I could be
when I, you know, say certain
things and talk to people that
I love.

(28:36):
And not think about it, you
know, makes me be more
conscious.
But, and I'm probably, I
probably talked to him more
than a lot of people, to be
honest.
But I don't necessarily long for
that from him.
I just long to know who he is

(28:58):
at his core, and what drives
him and what brought him to
how he was and what I could
learn from that.
And a lot of pride and like he,
he, I don't know, you know,
people might see where he
lives and, and think, you know,
it's humble or whatever, or
like, you know, you know, low
income or whatever.

(29:20):
But where he came from,
where I know he know he
came from, y'all talking about
the trenches, the trenches is
moving on up to the east side.
Yeah.
Moving on up to the trenches,
because he the way where he
came from and how he came
up, like he's a survivor.

(29:42):
Not only that, but he's also
built, he could build a house,
that man, like, he knows what
his house is, how it's framed,
how, you know, all of that.
And he owns it.
And that is like a mansion to
me.
Right?
Yeah.
And so I have a lot of respect
as well as a lot of critique and

(30:04):
a lot of criticism.
So, but I, so I don't long for it
from him.
What I do want to start fixing
is I have a thing.
My dad was always like, don't
tell, don't let no grown man
tell you what to do unless he's
me, you know?
And he meant it.
And he had backup just in

(30:26):
case you didn't believe him.
And so, so he, you know, I had,
while I was also like, you know,
don't hit me.
You know, I was also like, that's
the protection as well.
Like what I know you not
going to do, you know what
I'm saying?
So I had, I have a big thing

(30:46):
with authority in that regard.
And that was part of, you
know, added to my curiosity
that I talked about, like that
plus the curiosity was very
much like, not only am I
questioning what you're
saying to make sure that it's
right, because I want to make
sure it's right.
Now I'm also thinking, why are
you trying to push your power

(31:08):
on me, right?
And, or abuse your power,
right?
And that is largely, I know
some of this is about
masculinity, but that's a lot of
what we're taught masculinity
is, is abuse or narcissism,
right?
And that's what it looks like
because that's what America
is.
America teaches you to be

(31:29):
individualistic and narcissist.
It's narcissism.
It's like delusion.
Like, you know what I'm
saying?
That's the American way.
Yeah, literally like whiteness is
delusion and that's the
American way, right?
Like it's delusional and that's
what we're taught being a
man is, is violence.

(31:50):
And you know what I'm
saying?
And so- Aggression and stuff
like that, yeah.
But, and nothing's, to be
completely honest, nature is
violent.
So nothing's wrong with
violence in itself.
There's violent, you know,
hurricanes, violent, naturally
occurring wildfires, right?

(32:12):
Earthquakes, et cetera.
But when that violence is
intentional, when it's a way of
life, when it's a part of the
culture, when it's one of the
key tenants of how you
operate, which is America,
violence is at the core.
Violence and delusion, like
white delusion, right?
Is at the core, right?
That's what teaches us how to
be a man.
So I do my best to separate his

(32:35):
abusive ways, right?
And my own, right?
Cause I know I'm prone to it
too, from who we are, right?
I try to go back to indigenous.
I try to go back to, you know,
and try to shed a lot of that
and really understand who he
is, how he survived, how he
knew how to survive.
Cause those are things taught
to us by our ancestors.

(32:56):
So, you know, just
understanding that, I think is
really important.
But yeah, I look for, even
though I have kind of that, a
bit of a complex with like, you
know, especially male
authority, especially white
male authority.

(33:18):
It's rooted in truth.
It's rooted in something that is
healthy, which is a critique of
what I've been taught being
masculine is, right?
And how harmful that is, how
abusive that can be, and that
it doesn't have to be, you
know?
So what would you say, with
everything that you've been

(33:40):
taught, where you are now,
how would you describe
masculinity?
What is that?
What does that look like,
sound like?
It's being in right relationship
with your environment, really
fulfilling your function.
Like it's understanding your
place in the grand scheme of
things.
We're taught as masculine
men or whatever to be very

(34:05):
individualistic and survivalist
and like, yeah, protective, but
protective like out of ego, like
that's mine, right?
And it's like, maybe your job is
the protector right now.
Maybe it's her time right now
to be protector and your job
to, you know, do something
else.
What's your function?
What are you most valuable

(34:26):
for the, you know, and when
you understand that your
story, so the way that I think
about it is, our stories, we're
the lead of all of our stories,
right?
But if we understand story, we
understand that other people
intersect with our story, and so
we're not the lead overall,
right?
And so we, there has to be

(34:47):
some sort of intention behind
your actions and how they
relate to each other and how
they might intersect with and
affect other people and your
environment, how healthy,
you know, you can make your.
environment less healthy, you
can make it more healthy,
right?
What is your place in that?
I think that that is literally

(35:09):
being a man.
Like, what is your, what is your
place and what's your
function right now?
I shouldn't, you know, say this,
but in my experience, maybe I
should, but in my experience,
women are better strategists.
Women are, you know what
I'm saying?
you know, that, that I would, if

(35:33):
I saw a bunch of men in the
room and I wanted to put a
strategy together, I would
assume that if there's one
woman in the room, she
might be more strategic.
I might be wrong.
I might be completely wrong,
but I would assume based on
what I know about other men,
that she's going to think
things through more
thoroughly, right?

(35:53):
Maybe your job, if you are
somebody who is, you know,
jumps the gun, maybe your
job is to wait for orders.
You get what I'm saying?
Like, so I really do think it's, it's
important for anything.
I mean, whether it's, I think
masculine and feminine are
divine.

(36:14):
I think it's a, like a spiritual
thing.
And I think it's, I think that it's
not defined how we think it is.
I think it's, it's something that
should be explored for the rest
of our lives, right?
Like I have somebody, a few

(36:36):
people in my family who are
questioning their gender,
questioning their, and, and I'm
the one in the, in the family
that everybody send all the
weird questions to like, Oh
man, I don't feel like dealing
with this.
Can you, and for me, because
they know I'm gonna be like,
that shit ain't weird.
Or if it's weird, it better be
good.
Cause I like weird, you know
what I'm saying?
Like, I'm weird.

(36:57):
Love a good story.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm like, our weirds better
match.
But, but, but one, one of them
was talking about, I think this
probably sums it up and I
didn't get permission to tell
the story.
So I'll keep, you know, names
and stuff out.
But, um, one was saying that
it's really hard to, to hear cause

(37:23):
they want to be more
feminine and are, um, were
like really sad and, and, and
really questioning their
existence because they didn't
feel like they were feminine
enough that people were
categorizing them wrong or,
um, or, you know, whatever it

(37:46):
is that they were saying, they
were making fun of them
because they weren't,
whatever.
Uh, they, uh, they, They didn't
fit the mold that other people
wanted.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That didn't fit the mold that
other people wanted.
And they felt like the, this
person was delusional for
thinking that they are
feminine.
Right.
And my, my response to that

(38:08):
was, you know, Black women
have, uh, bigger jaws, wider
noses, and all of these things
that we've been taught by
white delusion that is not
beautiful, is not feminine.
Um, you know, you know what
I'm saying?
Like it, who is defining what is

(38:30):
feminine?
Um, Black people look
different all over Africa.
Um, even within whatever we
understand as nations today,
there's so many different
ethnicities and families and
they, they, there's such a
diverse array of what feminine
is in each culture.

(38:51):
And, um, and what it is, the
only common, the only
common denominator is that
it's divine.
That's it.
It doesn't look a certain way.
It doesn't feel a certain way.
And so I said, you know, for
me, if you want to change
anything about yourself, my
only requirement for my

(39:12):
approval or my, which you
don't need, you know, but for
my approval and my
involvement, I just want to
make sure that you fall in love
with yourself first.
If you fall in love with yourself
and think that I want to
enhance these things about
myself, then go ahead.
You got my full support.
Like I want to enhance this
about myself.
I think that my jawline is
feminine.
I want a stronger jawline so I

(39:32):
could be even more feminine.
Whatever it is, you know what
I'm saying?
Like I support if you really, but
if you're trying to carve
something out of yourself, you
ain't ever going to start
carving, stop carving.
If you're trying to, to change
something about yourself, um,
that's natural, that's beautiful,
you know, that, that is

(39:53):
probably everything that you
think it is and want it to be.
But other people, you're
defining it by other people's
opinions.
in terms, um, have to, to fall in
love with yourself and flaws
and all.
Um, so yeah, when I think
about masculinity and
femininity, both, I think of
them as something that's
divine and when it's divine,

(40:14):
when it's supernatural, it's not
something fit.
It's, it's what we call
metaphysical, right?
It's something that's not
physical, something that can't
be, uh, felt and grabbed.
And, and therefore you can't
really bring up proof that it is
what it is, right?
And you have to continually
explore for the rest of your life,

(40:36):
that curiosity of what is it?
What is it?
And what does it look like in
me?
Um, in the same way that you
pursue anything else spiritual,
you ain't ever going to
understand God.
understand love fully.
You're not ever going to
understand peacefully.
These are not things that you
can, you know, put science to,
um, and come up with
evidence.
What you can do is interpret

(40:57):
how you've seen it and how
you felt it and all of those
non-physical, uh, uh,
indicators and you just have to
believe it.
Um, and that's something
that I think you develop and
understand enough for the
rest of your life.
And if anybody thinks that
they can define femininity and
masculinity, um, it, it, and

(41:19):
what, what a man is and what
a woman is, um, in a very
succinct, like, you know, a
science book or, um, or even a
novel or an encyclopedia, I
have some news for you.
You wrong.
There's not enough, ain't
enough space on paper to, to
define it.
Um, because it's so different,

(41:39):
um, in everybody.
Yeah.
And everybody that we asked
that has such a different
response.
Some people can't even
explain it and they try to, and
they don't, they say what it's
not.
It's just interesting to hear
everybody, but it's also
interesting to hear your
experience with this person
who had opened up to you.
It seems like you would be a

(42:00):
really good person to talk to.
If you were going through
some things, questions, some
things, like you said, they send
everybody to you.
Have you always been so like
confident and self-assured for
your own self?
No.
Cause that's what you're
given.
That's what is given.
Uh huh.
No, I mean, um, how'd you

(42:22):
come into it?
It wasn't, I mean, confidence.
I, I, yeah, I'm confident.
I'm confident in my
knowledge.
I'm not confident in physical
anything really.
I, um, uh, not growing up.
I mean, I got made fun of by, I
was pigeon-toed,
knock-kneed.
I have big glasses.

(42:43):
I have big old ears.
My teeth, these two front
teeth, I always tell people are
the same size they were when
I was born.
Um, and I have big like
tortoiseshell glasses and, and
you know, I, I, I see a kid like
that now.
When I was a kid, it wasn't,
you know, and yeah, there

(43:05):
were a lot of questions.
And kids can be mean.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It wasn't like a good thing.
I was flooding sometimes.
We was in private school, you
know, they didn't teach me to
make my, my, uh, my pants
need to come down to my
ankles.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, but you still feel

(43:25):
that way.
Yeah.
I'm, I'm, I mean, I'm, I'm, I like
myself.
I mean, I think I look good.
I think I'm sexy, but I'm also
like, I know I'm nerdy.
It's more, it's more like, like, I
did not think I was sexy back
then.
I did not think I was just like,
why don't everybody else see
it?
And I wasn't like, you know, I

(43:47):
was like, I want them to see it.
But I think I just got more and
more comfortable with the
fact that I, that while I'm like, I
want them to see it.
It's more of an experiment of
understanding how to fit in
because I went to a different
school every year.
I wanted to understand the
culture of the school.
I wanted to figure it out.
I'm always about fixing things.
So, so putting things together,

(44:07):
I, if that was my curiosity, if, if it
didn't connect, I would
explore that thing and
become obsessed with it until
I understood it all the way.
It's either zero or a hundred
for me, I'm either completely
disinterested or I'm like
obsessed.
And so, you know, that's why I
was reading so much and
doing all that.
So what was I saying?

(44:30):
Well, that's how I am
sometimes.
I was asking because I, it
seemed like you're very
confident and self-assured,
but you were saying you
haven't, you're confident.
You didn't always feel it like
that.
Yeah, no, I, I, I thought, you
know, I, I was confident in my
knowledge and my
exploration.
When I explore something, I

(44:50):
explore it thoroughly.
I develop, I'm either going to
be so indecisive because I
need to know everything in
order to make a decision.
That's how I am.
And so.
So I want to be able to work it
out.
You know, I need, I need the
detailed budget before the
summary, right?
Because you got to
summarize, you know what
I'm saying?
I need, I need as much detail

(45:11):
as possible.
I don't shop.
I hate shopping because I
need to look at every option to
make sure that I have the best
deal, the most quality.
I hate it.
Uh, it drives me crazy.
So once I decide something,
it's because I've thought
about it so much that it
stressed me out to the point
that I made a decision and I'm

(45:32):
not going back on this
decision.
Um, so that, that research in
like my activism, I mean
activism and understanding
and breaking down society
and how much, you know, if
you're talking about black
radical liberation and you, you
ain't got to go to college and
go to all these scholars, these,

(45:53):
these philosophers, street
philosophers, these, you know
what I'm saying?
The people in the hood that
are really fighting for the
people and build it, they have
the answers to life.
Okay.
And so, you know, once I
started hanging with folks like
that and really breaking down
things like that, what is
masculinity?
What is game, right?
Like you keep saying you have
game.
Are you just really saying that

(46:14):
you can convince women to
go past their comfort?
Or are you just a manipulator?
Yeah.
Are you just a manipulator?
Are you, are you crossing lines
you shouldn't be crossing?
You know, um, are you trying
to convince somebody that's
called coercion?
Like, like, what are you doing?
What are you doing?
Um, so it made me question a

(46:36):
lot of this stuff.
Like why are, why aren't there
services for mental health
when I know everybody in my
family deals with some sort of
addiction or, um, or mental
health issue.
And I go to the skid row here
in LA and I see those same
people, but you know, in
different conditions, at least
so-and-so got a trailer.

(46:56):
Like out here, they on the
street in a tent.
Like what's, what's not lining
up?
Why is it?
It can't be just that they didn't
have no job.
Like, you know, what services?
Why are all the, why is all the
money going to police?
Oh, hold up.
Like what is, oh, police.
And why is this happening?

(47:17):
What's going on?
What can I do?
Are direct lineage to slave
catchers?
Oh, so in the school to prison,
so you saying that the cops,
that when I kept saying that,
why are they keep targeting
the black kids in our school,
then I was right.
It, it, that's what gave me
confidence.
Like nobody can tell me that

(47:37):
they're going to work harder
than me.
Nobody can tell me that that's
where my values lie in
confidence more than
anything, every, every day
shifts.
I might think I looked good
one day, another day.
I'm like, why my face look like
that?
going to shake is the work
that I'm going to be able to do
on myself physically.
Um, what I'm building, what

(47:58):
community, you know, that
those values, um, are, what
are, is the constant.
And, and a lot of that came
from literally leaning in the
story, leaning into my curiosity,
you know, and, and, um, and
reading, reading and research
and a lot of books, literally
collecting stories.

(48:19):
Were you ever nervous, um, in
your adult life?
Let me go back.
I found out who you were on
insecure.
And I said, who is this?
Let me follow on Instagram.
So then I go to Instagram and
I see how vocal you have been
since I've started following you
many years ago about mental
health and the social

(48:40):
injustices that are happening.
And I was like, that's really
interesting.
And it's good to see
somebody in Hollywood,
somebody black in Hollywood,
a man that's black in
Hollywood talking about these
things.
But was there ever a point
where you were kind of scared
to speak out?
Or it was just like, whatever,
this is wrong.
And wrong is wrong.
Um, both wrong and wrong is

(49:03):
wrong.
Like, yeah.
I mean, we're taught to stay
away from sex, politics, and
religion.
I was always the one to go
towards what we're taught
not to.
Cause I'm curious why, why
those are the juiciest topics,
you know, and what I realized

(49:24):
is that's also where we reveal
our values, right?
Like if you're confident, a lot of
people are, um, admire people
who are really confident in
their sex.
Like I'm really good at sex.
You're like, Oh, because that's
one of our most vulnerable

(49:44):
areas.
Yeah.
So is religion.
So is this is where other
people are not allowed into
your journey, right?
Politics, your, your vote is
private.
It's supposed to be yours.
You don't have to tell.
anybody.
This is, that's where we reveal

(50:04):
our values the most, what we
vote for, where we spend our
money, you know what I'm
saying?
How we're having sex, how we
treat the people that we have
in vulnerable positions.
We naked, you know what I'm
saying?
Like, you don't get more
vulnerable than that, you
know?
And we're taught not to talk
about those things, what we
believe, spirituality.
But I leaned into those things,

(50:25):
like sex, politics, and religion.
Actually, our issue focus areas
that build power our
organization are centered
around that sex, politics, and
religion.
That's sexual health and
liberation for us.
Politics is state violence and
labor.
And then religion is mental
health and healing justice,

(50:45):
right?
Like, leaning into that and
understanding what those
values are and what your
values are in them, I think,
breeds that confidence that
you're doing things, because
at the end of the day, we're all
living a pretty difficult life, you
know what I'm saying?
Like, some have more
resources than others, but you
can't predict the weather, you

(51:06):
can't, you know, you don't
know when you're going to
die, you don't know when a
car, whatever it is, you know,
you don't know when you're
going to break a bone or
whatever.
And so, at the end of the day,
you just have to think about, is
it worth it?
Is what I'm doing, is this
journey worth it?
And my exploration in those, I

(51:26):
think, has led me to really
understand who I am and my
purpose.
Repeat your question again?
Because I went back to the
confidence question.
I forgot now, but I was just
listening.
I mean, I don't know.
Your last question?
The last, what was I asking you
about?
I was asking you something
about, oh, were you afraid to

(51:50):
be vocal about these things?
A lot of that exploration.
So at my core, at my core, one
of my values is getting it right.
And I think I used to say God,
God tricked me and use my
nature against me.
Because if you want to be
right, you have to realize
you're not always right, right?

(52:11):
Like you have to be right
when you're not right.
You have to correctly identify
when you're wrong.
You have to have a really good
analysis.
And I was grateful to learn
that pretty early.
And I always was really curious
about different things.

(52:31):
So like I was saying, zero or a
hundred, right?
Like I'm either completely out
of it or I'm so obsessed with it.
I'm going to study and
research.
And when I know it's right, I
can't get it out of my head.
I'm obsessed with it.
If I see something contradicts
it, if you tell me these are the
rules of the game and

(52:53):
something's off about what
you, I'm, I'm listening really
closely.
I'm good at instructions.
I'm good at processes.
I'm good at, you know what
I'm saying?
I'm step by step.
I'm thinking systems.
I'm always like, how does this
connect and where does it
And if it disconnects, why
does it disconnect?
And let's fix it.
And I'm not going to stop until
I fix it.
And so if you tell me the rules

(53:14):
of the game, like this bullshit
that's happening, uh, America
and these white folks keep
changing the rules.
And, uh, now this
administration, this fucking
administration is doing all this
bullshit.
Um, if you tell me the
moment you betray what rule
you set forth, I already know
who you are and I know what
you told me because I was

(53:35):
listening intently and I did my
research and now I
understand exactly what's
going on.
It don't take much for me to
be like, I, these are the rules.
You broke them.
That's who you are.
That's what you do.
You do it twice.
That's a part of your character.
Um, I think, you know, I think

(53:57):
for me, that is, I can't live.
There's a, I can't live if I don't
correct it.
I'm like, it's connected so
deeply to my purpose that if I
don't call it out, it eats away at
me and I'm miserable.

(54:19):
I'm like physically ill.
So I don't waste no time.
Uh, I'm, I'm very much a rip off
the band aid.
Once I've made a decision, I'm
like, let's go forward.
Let's do it.
I don't even like introductions
and meetings quite literally.
I'm like, let's get to the
business.
Yeah.
I'm like, we gotta, we, we know
each other.
We gonna figure it out.

(54:39):
Uh, let's get to work.
So, so, and I gotta be careful
with that, but, um, but yeah,
I'm, I'm very much like, I have
to say something or do
something.
I'm going to do my part.
So again, going back to what
we was talking about with
masculinity, where do I fit in
here?
What's my function?
Where can I Excel?
Don't get Give me something

(55:00):
that I suck at because I'm
gonna waste your time, right?
Yeah.
This is where I'm good.
I need to know my skills really
well.
This is where I'm good.
I'm good at this, I'm good at
this, I'm good at this.
I could fix these things.
I could do this, whatever,
whatever.
Put me in coach.
I'm ready.
And if not, send me to school.
I'm really good at research.

(55:21):
I'm really good at learning.
So give me the tools that I
need to make sure that I'm in
right standing.
If it's not, we got a correct
course.
So yeah, much like
performing, right before I go
on stage, a lot of the time I'm
not social.
Like people don't understand

(55:42):
how good I am by myself
because I'm good at
interfacing with other people.
I'm good at talking to other
people.
I'm good at mimicking.
I'm good at mimicking
culture.
I'm good at, you know, doing
what I have to do and I'm
gonna excel in it.
If I'm gonna go out, I'm gonna
go out.
People know I party.
People that party with me
know that I party.

(56:02):
I have a good, good time,
okay?
But if I'm not, I'm working.
Like I'm working obsessively.
Or if I choose to be with family,
I'm with family.
And so, you know, when I'm all

(56:24):
for it, I'm all in it.
And if I say that I'm gonna do
something, I do my best to do
it.
And I lost my train of thought
a little bit.
But I- It's okay, because I got
my next question for you.
You did answer though.
You did answer.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Now speaking of tools and all
that other stuff, you had
mentioned sexual health.
And we're about to switch it.

(56:45):
And I wanna talk about sex.
I wanna talk about sexual
health, sexual liberation, and
love.
So, you told us before that
you're good being a side
nigga, right?

(57:05):
Oh, no, no, no, no, wait, wait,
wait, wait, wait, wait.
I forgot, I forgot, I forgot.
Because I wanna wrap that
up.
I'm gonna be pissed if I don't.
I know I'm gonna go back in
my mind and say, why the
fuck did I- Damn, I didn't say
that.
Yeah, it was performing.
Right before I go on, I'm like
super, I can't even remember
I could be dolo by myself and
be really good, like really,

(57:25):
really, really good.
And so, when I do decide to
go out, I'm out.
So, I'm having a good time, I'm
interfacing with people.
So, people think that I'm good
at that, or that I'm an
extrovert, but I'm far from it.
Before I go out, everybody
who's with me, if they are with

(57:46):
me, know that I'm like
stressed.
I'm like, man, I gotta talk to all
these people.
Like my whole body is
deflated, and I'm like, I just
wanna go to sleep.
I don't wanna pick out no
clothes.
I hate picking out outfits.
I don't wanna get ready.
I just wanna brush my teeth,
get to work.
Like, I wanna be comfortable.

(58:08):
And then I go out, and they're
like, how you switch up like
that?
And it's the same thing
performing, right?
Before I go out on stage, I
might be like, I might be
about to, I have to take a good
number two before I, cause
who knows what, you know
what I'm saying?
I gotta, you know, I gotta shit.
Cause I- Let it out.
Yeah, I gotta make sure I'm

(58:29):
drinking some water, cause
I'ma get out there- I thought
you were gonna say shot.
You gotta, you thought, okay.
Nah, cause that's gonna drive
me out more.
I might take a little hit of
weed, but I gotta be out there
and like, you know, and once I
step on that stage, once that
camera cut on, if I'm out of it,
you gonna know immediately

(58:50):
because we're ending that
tape.
We're ending it, but once,
usually as soon as I said,
whether I'm speaking,
performing, whatever it is, that
shit goes away and I'm a
hundred percent focused on
my job and what I gotta do.
And when I get off, I'm so
relieved.
And I feel the same way about
when I speak out about

(59:10):
things.
You know, I will have so much
anxiety about it.
I will be introvert about it.
I'm gonna sit there and
research and research until I
know that I know that I know
because I don't wanna have to
speak.
But I know that when I do,
because you made me,
because you are so fucked up,
because I'm so passionate
about this, because I know

(59:32):
what I know what I know
because I've done my
research, I've built
relationships.
I'm gonna deliver that
message better than anybody.
I'm gonna make sure that I
get out there and do my job.
I'm gonna say, okay, I was
wrong about this and this is
what it really is and y'all need
to know.
You know, so that's where my
confidence comes from in

(59:52):
activism and, you know.
Yeah, speaking out.
Well, you're doing good work
with it and it's important.
And the people that.
Appreciate it because you
never know who you might
connect with through the
internet or if they see you out
somewhere or wherever And
they hear you speak.
They listen to you and it's
something about you that just
really resonates with them We
need more people to continue

(01:00:13):
to speak out about things that
they care about And people
want to know that people care
about what they care about,
too But move yes Now I got a
note about Discussing sexual
liberation and I was trying to

(01:00:34):
think of a really like a really
eloquent way to put it I
couldn't so I just want to know
like for real when you think of
sexual liberation.
I'm like, what do you mean?
What do you mean?
By sexual racial what you
liberated from?
Yeah, so our program at build
power Our nonprofit is called
black pleasure and it's around
sex sexual health and

(01:00:55):
liberation our anchor partner
sister song So sister song
focuses on reproductive
health for women.
And so what I'm thinking
about like sexual health and
liberation generally, it's You
know applying the freedom
movement the movement for
liberation black radical
liberation to sex Making sure
that there's no, you know, I'm
an abolitionist and basically

(01:01:17):
what that means is ain't no
yeah I believe you know these
systems ain't what they
should be and that we need to
burn it and build something
better But you know, but
more than that, it's that we
leave no stone unturned No
person behind right we make
sure that you know That we

(01:01:38):
are inclusive including all of
our people especially those
when we talk about
vulnerable when we're talking
about people who are Easily
accessible or more likely to be
targeted, right?
We're talking about those
vulnerable people in those
vulnerable situations.
There's nothing more
vulnerable than sex there's
nothing more vulnerable than

(01:01:59):
Then sexual health and when
you're talking about health
Even in hell, so we're always
looking for what's being
forgotten who's being
forgotten, right?
And a lot of the time we talk
about health, but we don't talk
about sex and health because
that's the taboo topic We
don't talk about politics and
health.
We don't talk about religion,
you know in health.

(01:02:19):
We don't talk about religion
and sex politics and sex so
There is politics to sex who
you have sex with how you
have sex with them What
happens after sex what health
problems can come from sex?
and what great things can

(01:02:39):
come from sex what beautiful
life and creation and creativity
and And health can come
from sex And so when I'm
thinking about sexual health
and liberation, that's exactly
what it is It's leaning into sex
Leaning into pleasure that we
are that we deserve pleasure
black people that we call it
black pleasure for many

(01:03:00):
reasons But black is a color
that encompasses all the
colors, right?
It's the yeah You know what
I'm saying?
It's it's a identity.
It's a culture.
It's so many things It's taboo.
Like it's what people think of
as taboo and dark and you
know, but dark can be good
taboo could be good You
know, and so when I'm
thinking about Black pleasure,

(01:03:22):
it's leaning into Adrienne
Marie Brown who I love and
who's incredible and her
pleasure activism and
thinking about How access to
pleasure access to a
pleasurable life vacations sex,
whatever it is are way more
Awarded to and accessible to

(01:03:44):
wealthy people billionaires
greedy folks immoral and
Abusive folks Mm-hmm rape
rapists like Donald Trump, you
know, I'm saying like, you
know, yeah, that is what those
things are You know what?
I'm saying afforded to yeah
people who will abuse a whole

(01:04:05):
globe like Like must you know,
I'm saying these folks are
afforded better lifestyles more
pleasure That makes us
believe subconsciously if they
get yachts and all this other
stuff maybe we don't deserve
pleasure if if it's not achievable

(01:04:26):
if we can't get The money that
we need to have the
pleasurable life for the time
that we need to have sex or
pay attention to sex Or our
sexual health or whatever?
Mm-hmm or our mental
health, you know what I'm
saying?
Like if we don't have the
resources to do that, we must
not deserve it Because
America's tries tries to teach
us that the people up top
deserve that like they work

(01:04:47):
earned it You know, they
earned it like they they they
work so much harder that
they they deserve
Exponentially more than
everybody else.
I mean that's some bullshit
right and so So, we lean into
thinking about pleasure and
sexual health and liberation.
When we think about

(01:05:07):
liberation, it's such a big word.
And when we think about
freedom, freedom is such a
big concept.
And so, what is on the other
side of freedom?
When we get free, what is
that?
It's a pleasurable life, as best
as it can be.
It's a sense of relief that
weighs off your shoulders.
It's health.

(01:05:28):
It's having a healthy life and
being able to control that.
It's having control over our
stories.
And telling the healthiest
version and creating the
healthiest version of that story.
And yeah, I think Dr.
Malina Abdullah says, life that
we can have everything we
need and most of what we
want.

(01:05:50):
That is kind of how I think
about it.
Like, what is pleasurable to
you?
And is the way you think
about pleasure healthy?
Does it make other people
healthy around you when you
engage in pleasure with other
people?
Are you engaging it in a way
that makes people better,
makes yourself better?

(01:06:11):
You know?
Or do you overindulge?
Or do you overindulge?
Do you abuse it?
Do you extract?
Do you not?
You know, are you
inconsiderate?
You know, do you not realize
your story intersects with
other people and that when
you intersect them with
another person that it's both
of y'all's story, not just yours,
you know, like it's that kind of

(01:06:33):
thing.
So many layers to it.
Now growing up, did y'all talk
about sex openly in your
household?
Not at all.
No.
It was just like, don't do it.
Or it's like, you're not hearing
anything.
No, it was.

(01:06:53):
There was no like intentional
conversation around sex.
So how'd you learn about it?
Happened, I'm sure.
And we ain't want to see our
parents, you know, and they
got divorced pretty early.
But I mean, I got caught
watching porn at one time,

(01:07:16):
you know, I think my mom
was like, I cried because my
brother told on me and I was
like, I was like, who does that?
Yeah.
What the fuck are you doing?
You told me about the porn in
the first place.
But but yeah, it was, you know,

(01:07:36):
I, I, I got, how old do you think
you were?
I was like, I don't know.
I started early.
I was like, okay, 10 something.
But either way, I, I, you know,
my, my mom was very much
like, because my uncle died of

(01:07:59):
AIDS when I was young, and,
and that was her youngest
brother.
I'm technically the youngest
blood sibling.
We got so many of them,
though.
So yeah.
You know?
I totally understand.
but yeah, they, um, um, what

(01:08:21):
was I saying?
I'm the youngest.
Your uncle passed?
He was the youngest.
He, and he's the one that my
mom said, reminded me of
her the most, Randy, my uncle
Randy.
And it was during, you know, a
big, the big stigma, like
everybody was scared of AIDS.
AIDS.

(01:08:41):
And he got it from a needle.
And he, uh, and he faced so
many things like gay men
were, and women were the
first to really help my mom
because other people
wouldn't touch him because
of AIDS.
And they called it a gay
disease.
And, um, and so she was really

(01:09:03):
like, and very scientific.
My mom was very matter of
fact.
So she was very much like
vagina, penis, like, you ain't
got no nicknames for them.
Like, we were in McDonald's.
Real names.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And she didn't have any, like,
qualms around.
I think she went to school for
counseling for a while.
Didn't get the degree.
She went a different direction,
but that was a passion of hers.

(01:09:24):
So she was very much like, we
can talk about whatever.
Um, we just didn't ever talk
about sex.
It was just like scary.
It was just like, hell no.
More not scary, but gross.
Uncomfortable.
Yeah.
And, and, um, I didn't run from
it and it wasn't pursued.
So I got most of my, and I, and

(01:09:45):
I also didn't take sex education
class, like in health class.
There was no, I missed that,
whatever it was, uh, I missed a
lot of school.
So it probably was just me not
at school to be completely
honest, but, um, but, but I
didn't ever, I had the grades,
but I, I didn't ever, um, so my,

(01:10:08):
my shit just came from
obsession.
Like, uh, again, just really
wanting to know.
And I started very, very early.
So I got in trouble a lot.
I went to a church schools.
Sometimes I went and got in
trouble for, you know, you
know, playing is a girl told me
to watch the bar, you know,
and they was doing the bar,

(01:10:29):
the Barbies was doing things
and I got in trouble or like, you
know, there were many
different Yeah.
Just trying to figure it out.
Yeah.
I was like, what is this?
I found a Karma Sutra book.
I was like, what is this?
You know, um, you, and we
used to sneak and watch, um,
what real sex.

(01:10:49):
Oh yes.
I did too.
I did.
And then you have the other
channel on the last channel so
you can hit that last one real
quick.
Yeah.
It's a very curious child too.
I just wanted to know what
was going on.
What is this thing that
everybody gets so worked up
about and you can make life
from, or you could die from
like, what's going on?

(01:11:11):
Yep.
Yeah.
And everybody does it.
So what's the problem.
And, um, you know, it was
more of me like being like,
cause usually there's no
followup.
Usually it's like, don't do that.
And there's not like a whole
lot of explanation or like, and
so I, again, my authority thing,
I'm like, so just, that's it.

(01:11:33):
Like, y'all not gonna tell me no
more.
Like what is it?
And so I'm going to go and
find it on my own.
And I found it on my own
through the internet, through
homies, uh, you know,
experiences.
Um, some, some of them very
dangerous.
There were a lot of, I was on
my own a lot and there were
like grown folks, men and

(01:11:53):
women.
They'd be hitting on like, and I,
when I tell you, when I was
below 18, I couldn't grow a
mustache when I, I, I swore up
and down.
I had three things, three little
hairs and I would not shave.
And there was, I mean, I
looked like a child and people
would let me in clubs.
I was promoting at clubs.

(01:12:14):
People would, yeah, we, there
was, that is so wild to me.
Yeah.
There are people would give
you drugs.
Like, I mean, and like, look for
kids.
It's a cultural thing.
So I hear the stories.
It just never stops being
shocking to me because I look
at a kid and I'm like, where's
your mama at?
Why are you here?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(01:12:35):
And I went to a lot of church
schools, so a lot of it was
connected to religion and
shame and like, you know,
that's not appropriate or this is
not.
And that just made me more
curious.
Like, all right, well shit, you
know, well, why, why
shouldn't, why is it different?
Why is it that, you know, why

(01:12:57):
am I not supposed to know
more about a vagina?
Like, why are you keeping
that?
If more men knew about
vaginas when they was
growing up and they stopped
trying to make it a whole
sexual thing.
Um, and what happens with
vaginas and what's behind
them and, you know, you
And what happens per month

(01:13:18):
after a certain age, then they
would have a lot, we would
have a lot more men caring
about reproductive justice.
Um, we would have a lot more
men respecting women's
bodies, I believe.
Um, so, you know, I think it's
important to be more open
about that and, and to be
more direct with it too and
think about all, all types of

(01:13:39):
different types of sex.
And really, uh, I think as a
educational thing to build
confidence, to build hygiene,
um, and, and better health,
but also like to understand the
complexities that how
harmful it can be, how easily it

(01:14:01):
can be harmful.
Um, and like, you know, what
are the healthiest ways to
figure out what you like?
You know, because, you know,
I don't just, don't just, yeah,
don't just spring up and suck
my toes.
I don't know that we ain't

(01:14:22):
discussed that.
I don't know.
I might have a thing.
Now I don't want to kiss you
no more.
So, you know, how to have
those healthy conversations
and you know, whatever it is.
So, so yeah, it's that type of
shit.
And I wasn't saying that for
me, barely.
I'll go.
I'm not like, yeah, don't bring it
on.
Now, when it comes to you

(01:14:43):
and anyone that you're going
to be intimate, how does the
conversation go when it does
come to health?
Like when was the last time
you were tested sharing
results?
Do you, are you very upfront?
Do you go with the flow?
Like, how do you handle that?
A lot of people seem shy or
timid, nervous when it comes

(01:15:03):
to that?
I am much more interested in
protecting myself and making
sure that I am, excuse me.
I ain't got no gas, no.
That is actually true though.
I'm like, do I really need gas
before sex?
Because man, that will ruin
the whole thing.

(01:15:24):
I got a cramp now, it ain't
coming out the right.
So anyway, I wanna make sure
that I'm clean.
I also have probably, if you talk
about kinks and fetishes, mine
is hygiene.
One of them is hygiene.
I'm really attracted- I thought
you were gonna say
something fun.
Hygiene, okay.

(01:15:45):
My face smell good, taste
good, and it's clean.
I like clean everything.
I like hygiene, I like to
understand how people think
about hygiene.
So yeah, I like to make sure
that I'm gonna be safe and
that I'm not causing any harm.

(01:16:06):
So I think about my own
protecting, protecting a
condom or whatever.
And the conversation usually I
start, but it's not, I think a lot
of us go into it trying to get
other people's information.
And I think that's part of the
problem.
You going in trying to be like,

(01:16:28):
how many bodies you got?
Have you talked to my best
friend?
Did you, do you know
so-and-so?
That's not the most important
part.
Yeah, is it gonna get back to
my homie?
Is it gonna get back to my
girl?
Is it gonna get back to my
partner?
That's more what we're
worried about.
And like, hey, is this a good, is

(01:16:49):
this good chemistry and is this
good match?
And all of those things are
somewhat important, but it's
not anything more important
than just being like, hey, just
to let you know, I'm clear.
I ain't got nothing, or I do, I
have something, this is what I
got, as long as I'm- I just
wanna let you know.
Yeah, I wanna let you know, so
you make your own decisions.
It's not contagious, it is

(01:17:09):
contagious.
If I wear a condom, I've talked
to my doctor, whatever it is, if
that's how y'all roll, that's how
y'all roll.
You should be, own it.
And it's just like any other
sexual encounter.
You might get in there, pull
your pants down and y'all not
a match.
You might, you know, you
might get in there and the

(01:17:30):
way you breathing in my face,
I might be like, you know, this
ain't working or I might like it,
you know?
So you don't know until you
have those conversations.
So you have, I think you put it
up front.
This is what I like, this is what,
you know, and then invite
them to join in on the
conversation, you know, as
opposed to trying to dig and

(01:17:51):
get what you need out of
them, you know?
And a lot of them also are
more worried about getting a
nut than like understanding.
Anything else.
Yeah, than understanding
where you are and how you
might harm somebody in that
pursuit, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah, and you gotta be careful

(01:18:12):
about that.
You don't know who's hiding
in the closet.
You don't know who, you
You need to be aware of your
surroundings.
You need to make sure, you
know, you having those
conversations, it's much easier
if you're focused on freedom
and liberation and leaving
people better than you found
them.
Yeah, I mean, life happens and
casual things are fun.

(01:18:34):
Oh yeah, you don't want that
coming into your life, but you
know, casual and fun things
can be fun, but it's not fun
when the few minutes that
you could have took on the
front end, you could have had
a conversation with somebody
could save you a world of
trouble that could potentially
happen later.
So y'all gotta be safe out there
and don't think about it before
you start undressing or

(01:18:55):
whatever, however you get
down.
Now, I know that we have to
wrap up soon, but before we
go, I wanna know, and I know
everybody watching wants to
know, we've gotta know,
what's your type?
So again, I'm here for a good
time, not a long time.

(01:19:15):
I like big butts and I cannot lie.
I mean, you can have wedding
plans, you just better have
whoever you're wedding to
better have a good
understanding of what you
got going on and that you
proposing it to me, because
my number one rule, my type
is no drama.

(01:19:36):
My type is- Stress free.
Yeah, it's usually an energy
and a connection thing to me.
I mean, I do have a thing for,
you know, dancers and
athletic types, big butts, black.
Do you have a celeb crush?

(01:19:57):
Melanin.
Melanin Rich.
Yeah, I like those tings.
But yeah, I mean, I'm sure I do
have a celebrity crush.
I mean, I have.

(01:20:18):
Yeah, I mean, I was about to
say that, but people would
take it the wrong way.
I was gonna say Issa, but I'm,
but it's more like, you know,
like, for real, for real.
She's just, yeah, I got a crush
on her in every way possible.
Business wise, you know what
I'm saying?
Creativity, you know, but
there's a bunch there's, there's
a bunch I have crushes to be
completely honest, that

(01:20:39):
everybody I hang with, I think
is sexy, I think is, is, is confident
in whatever they're confident
in is transformative, a change
maker, you know what I'm
saying?
The people that I like to roll
with, I'm attracted to, that
don't mean that I want to
have sex with them.
But they're my type.

(01:21:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I really do look for that.
Like those the way my homies
are.
That's what I look.
I look for that feeling if I'm a
connect.
And, and, and I was gonna say
and fuck me like if I do you
think that you're gonna always
feel like I want a relationship?
Is it like for life?

(01:21:21):
Or do you think it's a phase?
No, I think it's for life.
Yeah, I think I yeah, I'm not I'm
not built for that.
I always say if I'm if I'm gonna
have a relationship is going to
be in retrospect, I don't believe
in bringing somebody I have
to invest in the in the in the
people that I love and the
family that I have and the
people that have been in my
life forever.
Those relationships are so

(01:21:42):
complex and, and you got a
lot of them and frustrating
and so many of them too
many and culturally different.
There's so many things and it
takes all my energy to figure
out and make sure they good
and develop relationships
with them.
A lot of them are like, why you
ain't hit me back?
Why you ain't talk to me in
months?
Why blah, blah, blah, blah.

(01:22:03):
I'm steady talking about them
24.
That's how they're my
inspiration and all that type of
shit.
But I'm that is is frustrating
enough.
I and then to say that, you
know, you meet this girl, you
meet this that all of a sudden
that that's your people call
them your my person and
things like that.
Meaning like, your mom ain't

(01:22:23):
your like, yo, you know what
I'm saying?
You ain't got nobody in your
life up to this point that we
ride or die together for the
rest of our lives.
I love you.
And I'm and I'm gonna make
sure you're always taken care
of.
That's difficult.
So to have somebody new in
your life and say that I'm a
prior prioritize you over
everybody, my family, my

(01:22:43):
mama, my mama, my you
It ain't happening.
It ain't happening.
So I'm, I want to spend more
time focusing on them.
And then if, if, if I have a
relationship, it'll be in
retrospect, I always say, like, I'll
be like, man, we have been
doing this for 20 years.

(01:23:05):
Like, damn, you still look good.
Like, you know, hey, let's do it.
You know, let's do it again.
And have, we have our own
lives.
We have, you know what I'm
saying?
Like, Shirley Ralph was talking
about that the other day.
Oh, yeah, I loved her response.

(01:23:26):
Listen, she's one of my favorite
people.
Like, for real, one of my
favorite people.
And she's one of them people
that show like, you can have
your own life and be in a
relationship.
And that's okay.
Yeah.
You know, everything doesn't
have to be so codependent.
It shouldn't at all.
But knowing that we're

(01:23:46):
interdependent, that we, we
affect each other, and that we
need each other to survive as
a community.
But as far as attaching myself
to one person and needing
that one person to be
everything for me when I
need them.
That's unrealistic.
It's unhealthy.
So, you know, and it ain't for

(01:24:08):
everybody.
I really do think that.
I totally agree with you.
People think I'm crazy when I
say similar things.
It's just like, how can I really be
pouring into somebody and
I'm working on me and all
these other things like that
would be unfair.
People don't get it.
Well, you got a bunch of
people.
I mean, there's a bunch of
reasons.
And the number one is

(01:24:29):
American, you know, delusion
is white shit.
But I but I will say, you know,
everybody has a different
understanding of what their
function is in life.
And sometimes people think I
think a lot of the problems in
relationships, my nail dirty.
I can't even see it.

(01:24:49):
I told you hygiene.
I'm over here like, you can't
see.
But but like for real, if you
think Understanding, what
was I saying?
Understanding that people...
People being different and
like relationships aren't for
everybody.
That, yeah, that you might be

(01:25:12):
forcing somebody into a
relationship and trying to
change them when they are
not that type of person.
They're not meant for that.
And you need to get out of
there quickly because y'all's
goals are completely different.
And if y'all not ever gonna
have a long-term relationship,
your long-term goals ain't the
same.
Exactly.
It's gonna be challenging and-

(01:25:32):
Or it's just gonna be a
headache.
Yeah, it's a fight every step of
the way.
Mm-hmm.
Now we do have to move on.
So we're gonna skip our
advice today, but before we
get out, something that I did
think about as you were
talking was, I wanna get your
hot take on this because
another reason that I think
sometimes people are so
pressed for a relationship is
the internet.

(01:26:02):
Do you think social media and
seeing Instagram and TikToks
and stuff is kind of ruining
relationships and people's
happiness because they
wanna emulate what they
see?
No, I think Christianity, the
way the business of
Christianity, the abuse of
Catholicism and religion, I

(01:26:24):
many different religions, to be
honest, but definitely that and
white delusion and gender
delusion, you know what I'm
saying?
I think that's what ruins
relationships.
I think relationships were
ruined before we ever got
social media.

(01:26:45):
Yeah.
The divorce rate was what it
was and all that stuff.
And I don't think that the
divorce rate is necessarily an
indicator of healthy
relationships, but I do believe
that it shows that people rush
into a structure that is
unhealthy, that binds them
there.
And we can really go into how,

(01:27:09):
I even saw a clip of Elizabeth
Warren talking about this,
where she was saying one of
the biggest economic
problems was when they
convinced Americans that,
and by Americans, it was really

(01:27:29):
white people, but convinced
them that since women can
work now, because obviously
they couldn't at a certain
point, now they're joining the
workforce, since women can
work now, your punishment is
you need, now you used to be

(01:27:50):
able to survive on a one
person income, the man of
the house, right?
And that person could take
care of multiple children
because you know they was
having children left and right
back then, multiple children,
wife, homestead, right?
And not saying that people
didn't struggle, but that was

(01:28:10):
what income was expected to
take care of.
When women entered the
workforce, the punishment to
women was, all right, well,
now you need two incomes,
and now it's celebrated to
have a two income household.
Shit, by now with the way that
Amazon, I mean, you know,

(01:28:31):
with all these people buying
up all the homes and shit, all
these billionaires, BlackRock
or Blackstone, whatever these,
buying up all these houses.
I might need to be in a poly
relationship to survive.
income, we gonna be dividing
up the rooms in a second,
putting the sheet up and
everything broke.

(01:28:53):
So, you know, but yeah, I think,
you know, I don't think that
the way that we've defined
relationships in America
specifically, more than
anything, and what they see
in Hollywood, you know, which
is part of sexual health and
liberation is really getting out
of that delusion.
Like that is not the way life is

(01:29:13):
supposed to be, this is not the
way that relationships are
supposed to be.
We are very much somebody,
one of my, and I didn't get
permission, so I'm not gonna
say, but one of my closest,
closest homies, she wrote a
whole thing around getting
out of an abusive relationship,

(01:29:34):
getting out of a relationship
with a narcissist.
And it was, that shit pumped
me up.
So because it was like, she was
talking about, staying silent
because of this delusion that
you develop, because
narcissists are so narcissistic
and abusers are, and people

(01:29:54):
who abuse their power are so
manipulative that they
convince you that you
deserve.
it.
And you start to question
yourself and what you're
speaking up on.
And the way she wrote this
about this relationship that
she was ending, that she put
the divorce papers on a table

(01:30:14):
and said, fuck this shit.
I'm taking care of me and my
kids.
I know my mom did the same
thing.
And how liberating that was
to take control of your health
and shape your life.
Yeah.
And shake that delusion
reminded me exactly of what

(01:30:35):
people in America need to
hear right now.
We are in a delusional, abusive
relationship with America and
what we think America is and
what America has pitched us
as our participation in this shit.
And we need to shake that
and look at use that voice, use
that power and and shake

(01:30:58):
that delusion and make sure
that we know who we are,
take more control over the
health of us and our story and
our people.
And yeah, I think, you know,
obviously, we were just talking
about relationships and sex
and shit.
But I think that that is largely,
you know, how I frame a
healthy understanding of sex

(01:31:18):
and relationships.
Well, thank you so much.
Before we go, I do want to
know who, not who, what you
think the best thing about
being a black man today in
your personal experience?
What do you think is the best
thing?
The best thing about being a
black man today is that I'm
not white.

(01:31:43):
That was the most simple and
straight, to the point answer.
But I get it.
You know, as stressful as it
could be, it'd be better to be
on this side, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, not for real, though.
I think the best thing about
being a black man is proximity
to black women.
Like being close to black
It's a great place to be.

(01:32:05):
And sharing the melanin and
being, I mean, I could go on
for days about our connection
to our ancestors, our divinity.
I say I am not so magical
Negro, but I am magical,
nigga.
I am magical, nigga.
I am not so magical Negro.

(01:32:26):
But you know what I'm
saying?
Like, I do have my magic.
I know what we come from.
And I know what our power is.
And I know how powerful we
are.
I want us to really lean into
that, that movement of black
power and what it was
intended to do to understand
and convince us and get us
grounded in that power.

(01:32:47):
So, so yeah, more than
anything, I guess that's that
that's the best part of being a
black man is having access to
that black power.
Mm hmm.
And it's a wonderful thing to
have access to.
If you ain't got it, I'm so sorry
for you, but just keep
watching the show and you
can hear about it.
Right.
I'm saying you can't come to

(01:33:09):
the cookout either.
I'm not having none of my
ribs.
I'm just playing.
But I'll save you a plate.
I'll save you a plate.
Thank you so much, Kendrick.
I really enjoyed talking with
you today.
And it was nice to get a little
bit more insight into who you
are and how you see the
world.
We really, really appreciate it.

(01:33:30):
Before you leave, let
everybody know if there's
anything that you have going
on or coming up that you may
want people to check out and
where to keep up with you.
Just make sure you all follow
build power, build power.
It's you could spell it out, build
power or BLDPWR on all the

(01:33:51):
socials.
socials.
Mm hmm.
There's so many of them, you
know, still at doing a thing
black on you got with Blue
Sky and what's the other one?
All I can is to me, I heard a lot
of problems with Blue Sky, but
but but yeah, all of these, you

(01:34:11):
know, it's always going to be
build power, BLDPWR or
spelled out.
You could spell it out.
I'll make sure I link it for y'all.
Yeah, got our website and all
of that.
And of course, my my shit is
Kendrick 38.
And my birthday is coming up
three, eight, you know what

(01:34:32):
I'm saying?
Happy early birthday.
Very early.
It's gonna be my birthday.
But, but yeah, keep us stay
tuned.
You know, we got a lot of stuff
coming up.
My birthday party is one of
them.
It's our biggest fundraiser of
the year.
And a really good time.

(01:34:53):
And in LA or Houston, or
where?
Oh, I might have to stop.
Both of them, you know, I'm
on International Women's
Day, you feel me, March 8th,
you know, and the day after
the rodeo, Black Night at the
Rodeo.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, it's
gonna be a time, I already
know.

(01:35:13):
Yeah, and then we gonna
come on down to L.A., you
know, this my second home,
and we always have a really,
really good time, a good, good
time.
Those are the best times.
But also, make sure y'all get
plugged into the work,
because we got some work to
do, okay, y'all, with these fires,
Alta Dina need to be built up,

(01:35:35):
our Black neighborhoods, our
Black people, we gotta lean
into each other more than
ever and really flesh out and
be curious and analyze.
Don't believe everything you
hear, don't believe everything
you see.
Tech billionaires out there
attending a fascist, racist,
abusive, rapist inauguration,
illegitimate president.

(01:35:57):
The list goes on.
Yeah, not mine.
And these are the people
running these platforms and
media platforms, and so we
have to be really super critical
of everything that we hear
and see and really develop a
really strong analysis.
And more than anything,
analysis comes from leaning
into us and connecting with

(01:36:18):
each other in person and
making sure that we use
technology to connect us
further and not divide us and
not replace us either.
Yes.
So let's make sure we do that
and organize and make sure
y'all come and find a home
here at Build Power where we
liberate all, including
ourselves.

(01:36:40):
Thank you so much, Kendrick.
I really appreciate you.
Thank you.

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