July 2, 2025 • 34 mins
What if your career could be both brilliant and balanced?
What if everything you’ve achieved—your wins, your failures, your pivots—was actually preparing you for a life that’s more aligned, more meaningful, more you?
In this episode, Dr. Heinz Plaumann shares what it means to live a life fully lived. From global manager in the chemical industry, with over 35 years of international experience, more than 25 patents, and leadership roles across continents—to now mentoring others through career roadmaps, emotional intelligence, and what he calls your “belly fire.”
But Heinz isn’t just a chemist or inventor. He’s also a jazz musician, a teacher, a coach, and the creator of Flashcard Leadership. His story proves that success isn’t just about what you build—it’s about who you become along the way.
If you’ve ever wondered if it’s too late to align your work with the life you truly want, this episode is your reminder that it’s not. Heinz shows you why.
In This Episode, We Explore:
- How Heinz went from science to strategy to coaching
- Why your reputation walks into the room before you do
- The “career roadmap” approach—and how to adapt it as you grow
- The power of emotional intelligence, behavior styles, and being a learn-it-all
- Why success without fulfillment is never truly enough
Favorite Quote
“Don’t be a know-it-all—be a learn-it-all. That’s how you build a life fully lived.”
Resources & Links
- Connect with Heinz: Heinzsight.org
- LinkedIn: Heinz Plaumann
- Watch his Flashcard Leadership videos
Subscribe to Your Next Success so you never miss an episode.
Watch full video episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@NextSuccessMethod/
Learn more about Next Success www.nextsuccesscareers.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caroline (00:02):
What if your career could be both brilliant and
balanced?
What if the years you hadalready lived your wins, your
failures, your pivots werepreparing you for something more
aligned, more meaningful, moreyou.
Today's guest has lived thatreality.
(00:22):
He's a chemist, an engineer, aninventor with over 25 patents.
But he is also a musician, ateacher, and a coach who's
helping others live fully, notjust work endlessly.
Because success isn't just whatyou build, it's who you become.
(00:44):
Welcome to Your Next Success,the podcast that helps you
redefine success from the insideout.
I'm Dr.
Caroline Sangal, and around herewe don't believe in pushing
harder for what no longer fits.
We believe in alignment, inauthenticity, and in building a
life that finally feels likeyour own.
(01:08):
Have you ever wondered, is thisit?
That question is the beginningof Your Next Success.
I am Dr.
Caroline Sangal, and thispodcast is your space to pause,
reflect, and create the careerand life you were made for.
(01:29):
We explore real stories,intentional transitions, and
practical insights to help youstep into alignment, purpose and
peace.
Today I am joined by Dr.
Heinz Plaumann, a globalexecutive turned career coach,
executive trainer, and founderof Heinzsight.org.
(01:51):
With over 35 years ofinternational, experience in
both industry and academia,Heinz holds advanced degrees in
chemistry and chemicalengineering has authored more
than 35 publications and holdsover 25 patents.
But it's what he's doing nowthat is truly extraordinary,
(02:12):
helping others create a lifefully lived.
He's the creator of FlashcardLeadership, a gifted speaker,
and surprise, also a jazzmusician.
In this episode, you'll hear howHeinz went from science to
strategy and eventually tocoaching.
Why your reputation often entersthe room before you do.
(02:35):
How to create a career roadmapthat adapts as you grow.
The real power of emotionalintelligence, behavior styles,
and being a"learn it all" andwhy success without fulfillment
is never enough.
Welcome to the podcast HeinzWelcome to Your Next Success.
(02:56):
I'm super excited that you'reone of my first people that I'm
interviewing, I'd love to startwith, what are you doing now?
And then I wanna kind ofbacktrack, but, so as people ask
you, what you do now?
What do you say to them?
Heinz (03:10):
I tell them, well, I tell 'em this I'll start with my
elevator speech.
The elevator speech is kind ofa, a picture frame.
I paint enough in there so youknow, who's this guy talking to
me?
And then it puts a context soyou know, oh, he's worth
listening to or click, he's off.
And so I have advanced degreesin chemistry and chemical
engineering.
I spent 35 years working inindustry and academics, mostly
(03:31):
in global positions, Globally Iworked in a number of different
companies.
I pivoted out of that.
I Retired, about a decade agonow, time is so fast, time goes
by so fast.
So now my calling life is tohelp other people have a life
fully lived.
So I've had a life fully livedas I just described, and I wanna
help you do that too.
(03:52):
And the way that I do that is byhelping you do these kinds of
things where, I have a Venndiagram behind me.
There are three things that Ithink are critical here.
One of them is you have todiscover what your passion is.
Your passion.
I call that your belly fire.
What's the fire you have in yourbelly?
(04:13):
It just burns you and say, Ineed to do this in my life.
Your belly fire, and then youneed to know how to do
something.
Those are called skills orcompetencies.
And then finally, you need toeat.
So you have to do something thatsomebody's gonna pay you for.
And the combination of thesethree things, for finding your
(04:34):
passion that you're so, youknow, fired up about knowing how
to do something and then gettingpaid for it, that becomes the
sweet spot for your life fullylived.
That's becomes the center ofthis diagram.
So how do we do that?
How do we, I say we.
In leaving industry, I created acompany named Quantum Kick
(04:55):
Careers.
We've reformulate that,rebranded that, and now it's
called Heinzsight.org, so Heinzmy site Heinzsight.org.
And now we use that as a vehicleto train people in creating
these things that we call careerroadmaps.
This is an example of a career.
It's just an engineering diagramof some kind.
(05:16):
But in doing that, we ask peoplequestions, say, so what is your
passion?
Your, your interests, yourvalues?
What are some skills you have?
What are some things you can doto test them out?
And we help you create a roadmaplike that.
And of course people are gonnasay, well, does this really
work?
I will tell you.
My wife and I, my spouse of over40 years.
(05:36):
Okay.
We're down doing somedownsizing, and she found this
thing in the basement.
I will read some stuff off ofthis.
This is my roadmap from 1985.
Before many of you were born,1985, and it says that I'm a
technical specialist in thiscompany.
And then from that I couldbecome a a next level, I could
(05:57):
become a technical manager,which is what happened, and then
I could do some other things onthis roadmap.
Finally, it says I could becomean adjunct Professor and teach,
and I am an adjunct professor inmy retirement gigs at two
university.
So you can look at this and say,well, gosh, some of this stuff
worked out.
It doesn't all work out.
And that's when people say,well, what do I do with this?
And I say, these are pieces ofpaper they don't work.
(06:21):
Change them.
Just throw them away and changethem.
So those are the kind of thingsthat we put into this to help
you, to help you do some things,create options.
This is kind of a plan.
We help you create options.
Finding your your belly fire.
Create some options to know,well, what could I do next?
A lot of that these days isnetworking.
(06:43):
Some people.
Oh, Networking.
Networking.
Everybody talks about it.
That is an absolutely keybusiness skill.
Now, I don't say that's not asoft skill.
That is a critical essentialskill.
Caroline (06:55):
and networking beats any cold application, it.
gives you choices.
I love it yeah.
Heinz (07:02):
When I teach at university, I say, what you
know, might get you a job.
Who you know doesn't matter, iswho knows you that counts.
I had a student yell and say,oh, you're just playing with
words.
I said, no, no, no.
Caroline (07:13):
I
Heinz (07:13):
It's it's who knows you and that's where, no, but you,
you don't understand.
I'm shy.
And I said, there are thousandsof people waiting to meet you.
You have an interesting story,and so once you have, you've
created some options throughnetworking, then you make a
plan, right?
You make a plan, and the plancould be that diagram that I
showed you and then you workyour plan.
(07:40):
You make a plan, work your plan,because if you fail to plan, if
you fail to plan, you areplanning to fail.
Nobody wants that in your lives.
And so what do you end up with?
A life fully lived?
You might not put a life fullylived.
So that's the story that wewould use.
(08:01):
And we have coached lots andlots of people and you know,
some people say, well, you canmake lots of money doing this.
You could, I'm not verysuccessful in the making money
stuff, but I saved hard, so I'mokay.
Anyways, my calling in life isto Have a life, fully lived.
Caroline (08:15):
I love it.
And walk me back to, you know,when you were kind of
transitioning from high schoolto college and and all of that.
Why chemistry?
Like how did that even comeabout?
Heinz (08:28):
It comes back to this thing.
You know how to do something.
You're good at stuff.
I wasn't good at science,chemistry, math.
I went to a small universityfirst and I double majored in
math and chemistry.
And then stuff happened and Iwind-up transferring to a
different university to go tograduate school.
And there I just focused onchemistry.
But being good at something youinto it to say, you know, I'm
good at this.
(08:49):
It becomes a, a almost a a selfperpetuating reward to say, I'm
good at this.
Oh look, I got good grades.
Oh, let's do some more.
I got good grades again.
Let's do some more.
And so it becomes that kind ofthing that if you, I would not
study Latin or languages, let'ssay, or history, not good at it,
not interested, not my passion.
And that's where it's a matterof how do you discover your
(09:10):
passion.
There are all kinds of things todo.
My suggestion is try somethings, talk to people.
talk to people.
Caroline (09:16):
Did you have any brother?
Heinz (09:18):
Not sure,
Caroline (09:18):
any role models or did anybody, aside from taking
classes in school and kind ofliking them.
Did you have any brother?
Heinz (09:25):
Yes.
My older brother.
Caroline (09:26):
Oh your older brother.
And so.
Heinz (09:28):
I have an older brother and he went into chemistry too.
Now, I will tell you this,growing up, my parents
immigrated from Europe after theSecond World War, and so, so
they did a lot of blue collarjobs, even though in Europe they
had skills, but they couldn'ttransfer them easily because of
language issues.
And so the local, some of thelocal grocery stores had these,
(09:48):
like for$2 you could buy anencyclopedia.
So my parents thought we'regonna make our kids smart.
And they bought like this set ofencyclopedia.
They were all like simple toread kid stuff, encyclopedia
levels.
They were not Britannica oranything like that, but they
were very affordable.
We had them and my brother andI, we would read them and study
them and say, hey did you see onpage 66 they talked about this?
(10:09):
Did you see this?
How this?
works?
And so we played off each otherwith our curiosities and of
course, curiosity.
It is something that reallydraws you into learning more,
become a specialist.
Now nowadays, curiosity iscalled a rabbit hole, so be
careful.
So, so, but, but that's how Igot drawn into it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The internet rabbit holes.
but that, that's how I got drawninto it, and I've, just loved it
(10:32):
and it took me into a verysuccessful career.
And now people have asked me,well, how did you transition
from being a technical guru tobecoming a manager?
And what I found in my firstmanagerial position, this, the
situation becomes this.
When you are a technical person,it's all about my contributions.
I have to be smart andcontribute.
(10:53):
and if you are working in inbusiness, in any form and
industry, it's all about makingmoney.
It's all about the money.
If you didn't hear it, it's allabout the money.
If they don't make lots ofmoney, they can't afford to keep
you.
So I moved into my firstmanagerial role and I found out
it's not about how smart I am,it's about how smart they are.
My people and my success wasmaking them successful, and that
(11:14):
became so rewarding for me,almost like this stuff life
fully lived.
so rewarding for me.
Then I went through, I got tofairly significant levels of
management and leadership inindustry, and some of them were
fairly fast and people said,well, you know, gosh, Heinz's
not isn't even 48.
He's a director of this biggroup.
Not because I'm smart, butbecause I helped others.
(11:34):
I think maybe I'm smart.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Caroline (11:38):
well, Well yeah, because there's a lot of, and,
and that's the thing, you know,even when I was in R&D There
were a lot of very goodindividual contributors who were
individually all about themindividually and taking credit
and wanting to, of course theydid good work, but there was
always this little bit ofpersonality conflict because
(12:01):
they weren't necessarily allteam focused, even though we all
had to to work in teams.
So I could see how.
If others recognize you weren'tall about yourself.
That became a great skill.
Heinz (12:14):
I'm not, I'm not, I'm not that much to be excited about.
I just injected this littlepiece of body language.
I, I tell people, don't be aknow-it-all, be a learn it all.
And exactly that kinda thingwhere it's not my success, it's
other success.
And if, if I'm there to helpothers, of course, then they
help me we, it becomes theteamwork, the attitude to say,
(12:35):
guess what?
It's not about me or you.
It's about us.
And when the us becomes biggerthan the me or you, then we are
more successful in a team and anindustry.
Nobody works by themselves.
You know, there's no R&D personthat's running a plant.
There's no R&D person running amarketing department.
So then it's a matter of how doI tell the marketing people,
(12:55):
guess what?
This is a good product to sell.
I.
Or the production guys, people,I shouldn't say guys, but the
production people.
This is a good product toproduce, that we all succeed.
Caroline (13:06):
And you mentioned some of the inter like international
moves, Can you walk us through alittle bit of that
Heinz (13:11):
Sure.
we've worked in two very verydifferent parts of Germany lived
in two very different parts ofGermany, one's in former West
Germany, which has got its ownculture and attitudes and a
little history there.
The Western prior Germany wascompletely rebuilt using allied
funds, the Marshall plan.
So the, allied basically, andthis is in contrast to the first
(13:33):
war, where the, the, the, thevictors there.
United States, France, Britain,they basically crippled the
country.
And some people say that reallyset that, that set the stage for
Hitler to come in and, andinitiate taking over the
country.
Now after the second war,Western Germany, what became
West was completely rebuilt andvery, very successful globally
(13:55):
industrially intellectually,universities, et cetera.
The eastern part where we livedthe second time, that was, I'll
say under the thumb of Sovietrule.
And in fact, after the war, theSoviets, the the Soviets, in
their wisdom or whatever, theyredrew a number of borders.
The part of Germany where myfather was from is no longer
part of Germany.
They just said, we're just the,the Soviet, you need to say,
(14:17):
we're just gonna give this toPoland.
So it's not part of Poland forbetter or worse.
Again, I can't judge that, butand the second time, there were
a lot of residuals from thatdifficult time.
I say of some, some politicaland intellectual oppression from
the, the Soviet era, thoseresiduals were still there.
You could see that the easternpart of Germany still had a lot
(14:40):
of impoverished sections whereit had not, it had not come back
fully, economically industriallyand intellectually as the
western part had.
So for us that was a contrast.
Of course, the whole thing iswherever you go, everybody's
culture is different, and it'sup to us to understand that
they're different.
And the key learning is notbetter or worse, just different.
(15:01):
And I've given talks on culture.
I call it got a mindset.
We all have mindsets.
My first slide in that says, gota mindset, Heinz Plaumann.
And I tell people, you'restarting to think you're making
decisions about me and you don'teven know me.
And then when I open my mouth,they say he doesn't have a
German accent.
You're right, I'm not German.
Why did you assume it's anotherone of those learnings?
(15:23):
Assume less, ask more.
And so I tell people, these arethe kind of things, integrating
into the culture is a key thing.
You don't sell out and becomethem.
Become wherever you are.
But you adapt in a way thatyou're not offensive.
Now again, we've lived indifferent parts of Germany,
we've traveled Germany, we'vetraveled in Europe quite
(15:44):
extensively.
I've been to Asia several times,and I've been to South America
on business ships and thingsthat the cultures are different,
not better or worse, it'sdifferent.
We've lived in the southern partof the United States and that
ain't the Midwest where I'm, inMichigan speaking to you here.
It ain't the same, better orworse.
No, it's just different.
You just have to get used to thevernacular and get used to the
people.
(16:04):
So, it becomes, again, notselling out, just adapting And
saying, if I do it their way, itdoesn't hurt me.
It doesn't hurt them.
And now we can communicate even,even vocabulary.
You know, if you're in certainparts of the United States, it's
called soda.
other parts, it's called Pop.
I say, I say No.
Caroline (16:22):
Another other parts, it's part is just called Coke.
Even if you're getting Sprite,
Heinz (16:25):
Yes
Caroline (16:25):
It's so weird.
Heinz (16:26):
Weird or not, but again, we can't judge it all.
We can say it's what?
It's, so you need to know whenyou into a store, what are you
buying?
Caroline (16:32):
Yeah.
aside from helping others andputting, you know, kind of
developing them, keeping themfirst, but what were some of the
other big lessons that you feelyou learned, while in your
industrial career and leadingand all over the world?
Heinz (16:48):
I had say, probably the biggest lesson to be flexible
and keep learning.
Again, you're not a know-it-all,you're a learn it all.
And, I, was, I say I wentthrough a number of career moves
very quickly.
never was fired or laid off.
But I was always on a, on asteep part of a learning curve,
which meant I never really gotto the top and became an expert,
even in managing and leadinggroups.
(17:08):
And I was okay.
I looked at that and said,that's fine.
I've done enough for this groupto succeed, and now I can go
ahead and take a look atsomething else.
And the, the positions came tome, I'll say, and I don't wanna
say that with any arrogance.
But they saw Heinz is doingstuff in this group that's
helping them contribute to oursuccess.
Therefore, let's move himsomewhere else where he can
contribute to someone else'ssuccess.
(17:29):
There are a lot of messes likethat, organizational messes.
I had to go in and clean up,let's say, and those were my
challenges and I, I enjoyeddoing that.
And then said, yep, okay.
Guess what?
I've done enough.
I'm, I've gotten up on thelearning curve enough that I
think I can move to a newposition.
When a new position becameavailable, I would almost always
take it, even internationalassignments, like I said, I
(17:52):
would look at it and say, howcan I contribute
Caroline (17:54):
awesome.
Heinz (17:55):
have this life fully lived?
Caroline (18:40):
welcome back.
Before the break, Heinz wassharing the kind of wisdom.
Most people only learn the hardway about freedom, alignment,
and creating options throughintentional career design.
Now we get into the creativeside of his journey from music
to mindset to the tools he usesto help others make confident,
(19:01):
fulfilling choices.
How about when it was time toretire, how did you decide and
then what did you switch intoright away after that?
Heinz (19:12):
I had been a lot of say career, the career road mapping.
I had
Caroline (19:15):
Yeah,
Heinz (19:16):
that for, I showed you mine from 1985.
I had been doing that in myindustrial setting with a lot of
colleagues.
So new people were being hiredand they said, you want career
planning?
Go talk to Heinz.
Go talk to Heinz.
He will help you design aroadmap.
He will help you network yourway into various jobs.
So I already had thatreputation.
That's another one of thosepeculiar things.
What comes in the room beforeyou open the door?
(19:36):
Your reputation.
People have beliefs about you,rightly or wrongly.
They have beliefs andconceptions.
Preconceived notions of youbefore you come in the room.
So that was my reputation.
Career planning.
Go talk to Heinz now.
I, so I was doing it internallyand then when I retired, I
retired.
I say pivoted.
I thought, well, maybe I coulddo this.
I could start a company and dothis kind of stuff.
(19:57):
And it, it's worked out well forme.
So I was challenged once by thiswas a senior vice president in
the industry where I worked.
I had lunch with him and he saidthat, why did you retire so
early?
And I said, well, at the time Iwas, I Think maybe 60 ish or so,
and I said, you know, if I wannado this for a while.
Think of this, there aren't toomany good things that happen
when you're in your seventies.
Health wise.
(20:19):
You, you don't become the, theglowing symbol of youth and
longevity when you're in yourseventies.
So I looked at this and said, ifI can do this to help others and
have a life fully lived for thisnext decade or So, then I'll be
very happy and it's going verywell.
So, so that's how I decided.
Caroline (20:36):
One of the things on your LinkedIn had mentioned a
bit about DISC behavior styles.
I love the DISC profiles aswell.
Heinz (20:43):
DISC is one of, they're like more than a dozen of those.
There's disc, there'sMyers-Briggs there's a thing
called insights.
Insights is very good.
And another method.
And they talk about theelements.
They talk about fire and windand and earth.
Very, very good.
Also, Myers-Briggs is all goodthere.
There's another one that I use.
If you go on your phone, you canjust hook on your phone and, and
come up with a thing calledLumina splash and you can do it
(21:07):
right on your phone.
It'll tell you things aboutyourself.
The main thing that I learnedfrom this is these are my
preferences.
It's not what I am and I've seenpeople hide behind this.
I can in Myers breaks orsomething that they'll say,
well, I am an analytical.
That's just your comfort zone.
It's almost an excuse.
I'm an analytical, so I'mallowed to be a nitpicker.
(21:29):
I'm a driver, so I'm allowed togive a lot of orders.
No.
to me, that's, that's not Theappropriate use of these styles
The appropriate use of thesestyles is to say, this is what
gets me going, what getsCaroline going.
So if I know Caroline is anamiable person and I see
Caroline, if I give her a hug,all of a sudden we're gonna
communicate differently and I'mnot giving her orders, wearing
(21:51):
my, my driver hat.
So for me, it's a matter ofsaying, what do you need from me
in terms of your social styles?
And when I give you that, I'm,again, I'm not selling out, I'm
still me, lets me communicatebetter because now I'm on your
footing.
I'm, I'm entering into yourplaying yard, into your yard,
your sandbox,
Caroline (22:11):
So, golden rule.
Treat
Heinz (22:12):
Oh,
Caroline (22:12):
you
Heinz (22:12):
I love that.
Caroline (22:13):
Problem is not everybody wants to be treated
like you.
Platinum rule, treat people likethey wanna be treated, but the
only way to understand how theywanna be treated is to do some
observations and see are theyopen?
Are they direct?
Are they guarded?
Are they people focused or taskfocused?
And then how can we modify ourlanguage so it's best that's the
Heinz (22:32):
Yep
Caroline (22:32):
by the other person?
So
Heinz (22:34):
it.
Look how smart I am now,Caroline Thank you so much.
Well yeah, I didn't come
Caroline (22:39):
up with that.
There's a guy, Tony Alessandrawho had done the DISC assessment
24/7 platform and I loved theirreproducibility, validity, all
of the studies.
I loved their training.
That had been the, thepractitioner I had done even in
recruiting.
And so I just naturally decidedto dive deeper into that.
(23:00):
So I won't, take credit.
I think he coined Platinum Rule,but I do so.
Heinz (23:04):
credit you with the absolute wisdom of finding the
tool and using it, and that'swhat people tell.
I'm sure people tell you, peopletell me, oh, man, you're so
smart.
And I say, man, I don't steal, Iborrow from a lot of people.
I don't make it mine.
But I used the tool.
I didn't invent a single hammeror wrench.
I have lots of them in myworkshop and I can use them.
I can use these tools to help usin our relationship.
(23:25):
I didn't invent them, but thatdoesn't matter.
I can still use them.
They're hammers and wrenches.
Caroline (23:29):
I love I it.
I know this from you staying atthe at the Hard Rock when we saw
each other in San Diego, butyou're quite the musician help
others
Heinz (23:36):
Sure.
Caroline (23:37):
what, kind of musical musical things do, you
concurrently how
Heinz (23:40):
Yeah,
Caroline (23:40):
that career.
your,
Heinz (23:43):
Right.
Now I'm really excited.
I'm excited.
I'm gonna fall outta my chair.
I'm really excited about thisnow.
When I was, when my parentsimmigrated, they said, you are
gonna have the things we did nothave in Europe.
You're gonna go to universityand you're gonna get music
lessons.
Caroline (23:58):
Oh.
Heinz (23:59):
we all had piano lessons, so I studied classical piano,
but I hate classical music.
I shouldn't say I hate, it's noton my list of listening musics,
but nonetheless, it taught meenough to understand.
And then when I got to, touniversity.
I ran into some people and therewere some people playing guitar
in our dorms and I said, well, Ican probably learn to do that.
So I taught myself how to playguitar in graduate school,
(24:21):
country rock, like bands likeThe Eagle kinda came into Vogue
and I thought, well, let me trysome things and stuff like this.
I wound up teaching myself howto play A most peculiar
instrument called the Pedalsteel guitar.
A lot of people, they, it equalscountry music.
It does not.
I play jazz and I've playedclassical stuff on the scene,
but it's an instrument It's likea guitar that you play with a
steel bar and it's got a wholebunch of mechanisms underneath
(24:41):
it that change the tuning.
And I look at that and say,well, this is just fascinating
stuff.
Again, it's me going on theoutside edge of what's kind of
normal and expected and say, I'mgonna teach myself how to play
that.
And I actually taught myself toplay well enough that I got gigs
in bars and concerts and thingslike that when I was in graduate
school.
And then out of graduate school.
I went to work in industry, putthat box away and I did.
(25:04):
And I literally, I put it in thecase for several decades,
carried it with us when We movedto Germany.
Never unpacked it, carried itwith us.
We moved to Charlotte, movedaround, moved to Detroit and
some people here, I met somepeople, I went to a concert or
something and somebody said, I'mlooking for somebody to play a
steel guitar for me.
I said, oh, I can help you.
And so I got back into it andnow I play in a number of bands
(25:25):
kind of on request.
it's just purely hobby stuff.
But it's, it's fun.
I gave a talk, I'm looking at mycalendar on the log a couple
weeks ago at a local librarycalled Music Is Dope.
And at first the, thecoordinator.
The host said, oh, you can'tcall it dope because dope is
like illicit drugs.
And I said, that's like 30 yearsago.
Nowadays, dope means, it's cool.
(25:45):
So I gave this talk called Musicis dope.
Music lets us release all kindsof good, happy hormones.
So when you use music, it helpsyou, it helps others.
We started the talk by singingHappy Birthday to somebody, and
we didn't even get through thesong about halfway through, I
said, stop.
And I said, how do you feel?
(26:05):
We sang Happy Birthday to you.
How do you feel?
Oh, I feel like a million bucks.
How do you guys, you guys arejust in the audience I, how do
you feel?
The participants, they said, oh,we feel good too.
Yeah, so music is very helpfulthat way.
So for me, music is a veryimportant release of, of stress,
energy, and it's just a way tohelp other people be happy too.
Help them have lives fullylived.
Caroline (26:26):
Now, When it was in the case for those decades, did
you have other musical thingsthat you were doing aside
playing that from playing likewere you singing, what was the
Heinz (26:37):
I'm not a, I guess I'm an adequate singer, but I wouldn't
say that I don't sing.
But I played in some, some, likesome church groups and stuff.
They just almost kinda like,well, can you learn to play
this?
I said, yeah.
So, it's a matter of being,again, being flexible enough.
And so I'd never played a bassguitar and we were living in
Germany and again, it happenedto be a church group.
They said, we really need a bassguitar.
I said, I don't know, but youcould try.
(26:58):
And I did, and now I just loveplaying bass.
Caroline (27:00):
Oh that's amazing.
Heinz (27:01):
Well, it's one of those things if you try new things,
that's what I tell people.
Keep learning new things.
Stretch your, spread your wingsa bit, and keep learning new
things because you'll be amazedat how much you didn't know and
how much fun it is to learn newstuff.
It becomes really rewarding.
So I taught myself to play bassand I actually played bass in
this geography here in a, swingband, like a, an old, forties
(27:24):
and fifties jazz band, BenMiller kind of band.
And I did that for a number ofyears and then I started playing
steel guitar again.
So, for me, music is a very,very important part of my life
and I love to share it.
Caroline (27:33):
Have you ever thought, what if I had done this
differently or what advice wouldyou have wanted your 25, 35,
even 45 year old self to hear orto know?
Heinz (27:45):
And this will sound, it won't sound like what most
people wanna hear about.
So yeah.
What would you tell your 25 yearold self?
I would say keep learning newstuff.
Don't be afraid to learn newstuff.
Don't be afraid to try things?
Would I have changed things?
I don't know.
I have had a wonderful ride.
When I look at the way my careerprogressed in the industry.
(28:06):
I'll share this little storywith you.
I was hired as a researchchemist into an industry and got
to know, because a lot of theresearch we were doing was
directly into production areas,so I spent a lot of time with
production people and they said,Hey, why didn't you come work
with us in production as aprocess chemist?
And I did.
And then I said, well, let's do,what else?
(28:26):
So then I went back to schoolafter my PhD and got a master's
in chemical engineering.
I said, this is awesome.
The company I worked for wastaking over and taking apart.
Life happens.
That's business.
We talked about business, it'sall about the money.
And I wound up working for aGerman company and then they
said, but you're kind of aGerman, guy and you speak some
German, you should come vote forus in Germany.
You know?
And that's when we moved toGermany.
(28:48):
And of course that group thatthey had, they moved that group
to North Carolina.
So on our return they said,well, you can't go back there.
You have to go to NorthCarolina.
So we did.
So it's a matter of being opento stuff, assessing.
You're always making decisions.
And typically we make about 30to 40,000 decisions a day.
And people say You're crazy.
It takes about 20 decisions tochange lanes on the road.
(29:09):
Really?
Think about it.
Caroline (29:10):
Yeah.
Heinz (29:10):
It does.
Now, when we're confronted witha decision, I say, get all the
inputs you can, all theknowledge, all the stuff that
goes in your head, and then say,pluses and minuses.
You know, pros and cons.
And then say, this is mydecision.
And then don't forget to checkdown here.
Check in your gut.
Because there's somethingmagical that happens down there
that says, good decision or not.
(29:32):
Good decision or not.
And so get your information, getthe input.
And then decide and check yourgut, and then go ahead and do
it, and then make the best ofit.
So I don't think I wouldn'tthrow my career up, up and down
and say, let's changeeverything.
I wouldn't do that because itworked out very well for me.
I I had that life fully lived.
Caroline (29:51):
How do people now?
How now?
do you end up working withpeople, help them out.
Helping them have lives fullylived.
Heinz (29:58):
A lot of it is through the internet.
I use, I am a very, very activeLinkedIn user.
And, it's funny, we just talkedbriefly about my reentry to the
music scene.
People in bands came to me andsaid like, where do we find you?
And I said, well, I'm onLinkedIn.
They said, we don't know whatthat is, are like you, are you
on Facebook and I, said, well,when my kids were growing up,
(30:20):
Facebook kinda came into Vogueand I, always thought it was a
little juvenile, but now I'm onFacebook too.
But LinkedIn would be the bestplace to find me.
And you can connect with methere.
It has all kinds of little, whatI call flashcard leadership
videos, little videos aboutthings.
There are about three to fiveminutes long and you can see
some examples there.
And then you can connect with methrough that.
Our website is, Heinzsight.org.
(30:42):
Like Heinz, my name,Heinz.
Site, S-I-G-H-T.org that's it.
.org.
Yep.
You can connect with me thereand send me an email.
Connect with me there.
And I, I, again, I, I'mdelighted to help other people,
so.
Caroline (30:54):
I'm big on trying to help people achieve authentic
success.
How do you define authenticsuccess for you?
In this moment.
Heinz (31:03):
I would say knowing that I have had and still am having
this life fully lived To know, Iview I've done the best I could
with what I have, and I'vehelped others achieve the best
they could with what they have.
And so that, that's a lot ofwishy-washy stuff.
And how do you measure thatstuff?
And I know people say, well, ifyou can't measure it, it can't
(31:25):
be done.
And what gets measured getsdone.
And I check in here and say, howdo you feel life fully live?
Man, I'm happy.
I am very happy and I go backand ask people.
I say, so have I helped you?
I do that frequently.
I'll say, have I helped you?
And how's it going for you?
And again, I will get thosekinds of responses from them.
So
Caroline (31:44):
Well, I want to thank you so much.
I may end up having you as arecurring guest every now and
then'cause I love a lot of thoseflashcard leadership videos.
They're so good.
They're so quick.
If they're insightful, you caneasily take action on them.
I adore every conversation thatwe ever get to have.
I always enjoy meeting you.
And I also like so if you guyshaven't connected with Heinz yet
(32:06):
on LinkedIn, please do.
And you also need to know if heever sees you in person that
he's gonna end up posting aboutit and writing about it to help
you and your network grow evenmore.
So that's the other thing islike, you always get to learn
and see so many other new andamazing folks just because they
happen to know you.
You're the common link between alot of people's success.
(32:27):
So definitely appreciate
Heinz (32:28):
Thank you.
Caroline (32:28):
That.
Heinz (32:29):
Thank you.
Caroline (32:30):
If something Heinz said sparked a new perspective
for you or reminded you of thelife that you want to live
fully.
You can connect with him@heinzsight.org.
That's H-E-I-N-Z-S-I-G-H t.org.
Or on LinkedIn, you can connectwith him.
Heinz Plaumann.
Check out his flashcardleadership videos, career
(32:51):
mapping resources, and thoughtleadership for real practical
inspiration.
And if you're ready to exploreyour own roadmap to align
success, visitNextSuccessCareers.com and
discover what's possible whenyou stop settling and start
aligning.
Heinz, thank you so much forsharing your story, your tools,
(33:14):
and your presence with us today.
You have lived a life thatproves success can evolve and
that it's never too late toalign with something more
meaningful.
You don't need to have all theanswers right now.
You just need to start askingbetter questions about who you
are, what you value, and whatyou want the rest of your life
(33:35):
to feel like Your Next Successis already inside you, waiting
for the permission to emerge.
Keep going.
You are not done yet.
Thanks for listening to YourNext Success with Dr.
Caroline Sangal.
Remember, authentic success isyours to define and includes
(33:56):
aligning your career to supportthe life you want.
What if your career could be both brilliant and
balanced?
What if the years you hadalready lived your wins, your
failures, your pivots werepreparing you for something more
aligned, more meaningful, moreyou.
Today's guest has lived thatreality.
(00:22):
He's a chemist, an engineer, aninventor with over 25 patents.
But he is also a musician, ateacher, and a coach who's
helping others live fully, notjust work endlessly.
Because success isn't just whatyou build, it's who you become.
(00:44):
Welcome to Your Next Success,the podcast that helps you
redefine success from the insideout.
I'm Dr.
Caroline Sangal, and around herewe don't believe in pushing
harder for what no longer fits.
We believe in alignment, inauthenticity, and in building a
life that finally feels likeyour own.
(01:08):
Have you ever wondered, is thisit?
That question is the beginningof Your Next Success.
I am Dr.
Caroline Sangal, and thispodcast is your space to pause,
reflect, and create the careerand life you were made for.
(01:29):
We explore real stories,intentional transitions, and
practical insights to help youstep into alignment, purpose and
peace.
Today I am joined by Dr.
Heinz Plaumann, a globalexecutive turned career coach,
executive trainer, and founderof Heinzsight.org.
(01:51):
With over 35 years ofinternational, experience in
both industry and academia,Heinz holds advanced degrees in
chemistry and chemicalengineering has authored more
than 35 publications and holdsover 25 patents.
But it's what he's doing nowthat is truly extraordinary,
(02:12):
helping others create a lifefully lived.
He's the creator of FlashcardLeadership, a gifted speaker,
and surprise, also a jazzmusician.
In this episode, you'll hear howHeinz went from science to
strategy and eventually tocoaching.
Why your reputation often entersthe room before you do.
(02:35):
How to create a career roadmapthat adapts as you grow.
The real power of emotionalintelligence, behavior styles,
and being a"learn it all" andwhy success without fulfillment
is never enough.
Welcome to the podcast HeinzWelcome to Your Next Success.
(02:56):
I'm super excited that you'reone of my first people that I'm
interviewing, I'd love to startwith, what are you doing now?
And then I wanna kind ofbacktrack, but, so as people ask
you, what you do now?
What do you say to them?
Heinz (03:10):
I tell them, well, I tell 'em this I'll start with my
elevator speech.
The elevator speech is kind ofa, a picture frame.
I paint enough in there so youknow, who's this guy talking to
me?
And then it puts a context soyou know, oh, he's worth
listening to or click, he's off.
And so I have advanced degreesin chemistry and chemical
engineering.
I spent 35 years working inindustry and academics, mostly
(03:31):
in global positions, Globally Iworked in a number of different
companies.
I pivoted out of that.
I Retired, about a decade agonow, time is so fast, time goes
by so fast.
So now my calling life is tohelp other people have a life
fully lived.
So I've had a life fully livedas I just described, and I wanna
help you do that too.
(03:52):
And the way that I do that is byhelping you do these kinds of
things where, I have a Venndiagram behind me.
There are three things that Ithink are critical here.
One of them is you have todiscover what your passion is.
Your passion.
I call that your belly fire.
What's the fire you have in yourbelly?
(04:13):
It just burns you and say, Ineed to do this in my life.
Your belly fire, and then youneed to know how to do
something.
Those are called skills orcompetencies.
And then finally, you need toeat.
So you have to do something thatsomebody's gonna pay you for.
And the combination of thesethree things, for finding your
(04:34):
passion that you're so, youknow, fired up about knowing how
to do something and then gettingpaid for it, that becomes the
sweet spot for your life fullylived.
That's becomes the center ofthis diagram.
So how do we do that?
How do we, I say we.
In leaving industry, I created acompany named Quantum Kick
(04:55):
Careers.
We've reformulate that,rebranded that, and now it's
called Heinzsight.org, so Heinzmy site Heinzsight.org.
And now we use that as a vehicleto train people in creating
these things that we call careerroadmaps.
This is an example of a career.
It's just an engineering diagramof some kind.
(05:16):
But in doing that, we ask peoplequestions, say, so what is your
passion?
Your, your interests, yourvalues?
What are some skills you have?
What are some things you can doto test them out?
And we help you create a roadmaplike that.
And of course people are gonnasay, well, does this really
work?
I will tell you.
My wife and I, my spouse of over40 years.
(05:36):
Okay.
We're down doing somedownsizing, and she found this
thing in the basement.
I will read some stuff off ofthis.
This is my roadmap from 1985.
Before many of you were born,1985, and it says that I'm a
technical specialist in thiscompany.
And then from that I couldbecome a a next level, I could
(05:57):
become a technical manager,which is what happened, and then
I could do some other things onthis roadmap.
Finally, it says I could becomean adjunct Professor and teach,
and I am an adjunct professor inmy retirement gigs at two
university.
So you can look at this and say,well, gosh, some of this stuff
worked out.
It doesn't all work out.
And that's when people say,well, what do I do with this?
And I say, these are pieces ofpaper they don't work.
(06:21):
Change them.
Just throw them away and changethem.
So those are the kind of thingsthat we put into this to help
you, to help you do some things,create options.
This is kind of a plan.
We help you create options.
Finding your your belly fire.
Create some options to know,well, what could I do next?
A lot of that these days isnetworking.
(06:43):
Some people.
Oh, Networking.
Networking.
Everybody talks about it.
That is an absolutely keybusiness skill.
Now, I don't say that's not asoft skill.
That is a critical essentialskill.
Caroline (06:55):
and networking beats any cold application, it.
gives you choices.
I love it yeah.
Heinz (07:02):
When I teach at university, I say, what you
know, might get you a job.
Who you know doesn't matter, iswho knows you that counts.
I had a student yell and say,oh, you're just playing with
words.
I said, no, no, no.
Caroline (07:13):
I
Heinz (07:13):
It's it's who knows you and that's where, no, but you,
you don't understand.
I'm shy.
And I said, there are thousandsof people waiting to meet you.
You have an interesting story,and so once you have, you've
created some options throughnetworking, then you make a
plan, right?
You make a plan, and the plancould be that diagram that I
showed you and then you workyour plan.
(07:40):
You make a plan, work your plan,because if you fail to plan, if
you fail to plan, you areplanning to fail.
Nobody wants that in your lives.
And so what do you end up with?
A life fully lived?
You might not put a life fullylived.
So that's the story that wewould use.
(08:01):
And we have coached lots andlots of people and you know,
some people say, well, you canmake lots of money doing this.
You could, I'm not verysuccessful in the making money
stuff, but I saved hard, so I'mokay.
Anyways, my calling in life isto Have a life, fully lived.
Caroline (08:15):
I love it.
And walk me back to, you know,when you were kind of
transitioning from high schoolto college and and all of that.
Why chemistry?
Like how did that even comeabout?
Heinz (08:28):
It comes back to this thing.
You know how to do something.
You're good at stuff.
I wasn't good at science,chemistry, math.
I went to a small universityfirst and I double majored in
math and chemistry.
And then stuff happened and Iwind-up transferring to a
different university to go tograduate school.
And there I just focused onchemistry.
But being good at something youinto it to say, you know, I'm
good at this.
(08:49):
It becomes a, a almost a a selfperpetuating reward to say, I'm
good at this.
Oh look, I got good grades.
Oh, let's do some more.
I got good grades again.
Let's do some more.
And so it becomes that kind ofthing that if you, I would not
study Latin or languages, let'ssay, or history, not good at it,
not interested, not my passion.
And that's where it's a matterof how do you discover your
(09:10):
passion.
There are all kinds of things todo.
My suggestion is try somethings, talk to people.
talk to people.
Caroline (09:16):
Did you have any brother?
Heinz (09:18):
Not sure,
Caroline (09:18):
any role models or did anybody, aside from taking
classes in school and kind ofliking them.
Did you have any brother?
Heinz (09:25):
Yes.
My older brother.
Caroline (09:26):
Oh your older brother.
And so.
Heinz (09:28):
I have an older brother and he went into chemistry too.
Now, I will tell you this,growing up, my parents
immigrated from Europe after theSecond World War, and so, so
they did a lot of blue collarjobs, even though in Europe they
had skills, but they couldn'ttransfer them easily because of
language issues.
And so the local, some of thelocal grocery stores had these,
(09:48):
like for$2 you could buy anencyclopedia.
So my parents thought we'regonna make our kids smart.
And they bought like this set ofencyclopedia.
They were all like simple toread kid stuff, encyclopedia
levels.
They were not Britannica oranything like that, but they
were very affordable.
We had them and my brother andI, we would read them and study
them and say, hey did you see onpage 66 they talked about this?
(10:09):
Did you see this?
How this?
works?
And so we played off each otherwith our curiosities and of
course, curiosity.
It is something that reallydraws you into learning more,
become a specialist.
Now nowadays, curiosity iscalled a rabbit hole, so be
careful.
So, so, but, but that's how Igot drawn into it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The internet rabbit holes.
but that, that's how I got drawninto it, and I've, just loved it
(10:32):
and it took me into a verysuccessful career.
And now people have asked me,well, how did you transition
from being a technical guru tobecoming a manager?
And what I found in my firstmanagerial position, this, the
situation becomes this.
When you are a technical person,it's all about my contributions.
I have to be smart andcontribute.
(10:53):
and if you are working in inbusiness, in any form and
industry, it's all about makingmoney.
It's all about the money.
If you didn't hear it, it's allabout the money.
If they don't make lots ofmoney, they can't afford to keep
you.
So I moved into my firstmanagerial role and I found out
it's not about how smart I am,it's about how smart they are.
My people and my success wasmaking them successful, and that
(11:14):
became so rewarding for me,almost like this stuff life
fully lived.
so rewarding for me.
Then I went through, I got tofairly significant levels of
management and leadership inindustry, and some of them were
fairly fast and people said,well, you know, gosh, Heinz's
not isn't even 48.
He's a director of this biggroup.
Not because I'm smart, butbecause I helped others.
(11:34):
I think maybe I'm smart.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Caroline (11:38):
well, Well yeah, because there's a lot of, and,
and that's the thing, you know,even when I was in R&D There
were a lot of very goodindividual contributors who were
individually all about themindividually and taking credit
and wanting to, of course theydid good work, but there was
always this little bit ofpersonality conflict because
(12:01):
they weren't necessarily allteam focused, even though we all
had to to work in teams.
So I could see how.
If others recognize you weren'tall about yourself.
That became a great skill.
Heinz (12:14):
I'm not, I'm not, I'm not that much to be excited about.
I just injected this littlepiece of body language.
I, I tell people, don't be aknow-it-all, be a learn it all.
And exactly that kinda thingwhere it's not my success, it's
other success.
And if, if I'm there to helpothers, of course, then they
help me we, it becomes theteamwork, the attitude to say,
(12:35):
guess what?
It's not about me or you.
It's about us.
And when the us becomes biggerthan the me or you, then we are
more successful in a team and anindustry.
Nobody works by themselves.
You know, there's no R&D personthat's running a plant.
There's no R&D person running amarketing department.
So then it's a matter of how doI tell the marketing people,
(12:55):
guess what?
This is a good product to sell.
I.
Or the production guys, people,I shouldn't say guys, but the
production people.
This is a good product toproduce, that we all succeed.
Caroline (13:06):
And you mentioned some of the inter like international
moves, Can you walk us through alittle bit of that
Heinz (13:11):
Sure.
we've worked in two very verydifferent parts of Germany lived
in two very different parts ofGermany, one's in former West
Germany, which has got its ownculture and attitudes and a
little history there.
The Western prior Germany wascompletely rebuilt using allied
funds, the Marshall plan.
So the, allied basically, andthis is in contrast to the first
(13:33):
war, where the, the, the, thevictors there.
United States, France, Britain,they basically crippled the
country.
And some people say that reallyset that, that set the stage for
Hitler to come in and, andinitiate taking over the
country.
Now after the second war,Western Germany, what became
West was completely rebuilt andvery, very successful globally
(13:55):
industrially intellectually,universities, et cetera.
The eastern part where we livedthe second time, that was, I'll
say under the thumb of Sovietrule.
And in fact, after the war, theSoviets, the the Soviets, in
their wisdom or whatever, theyredrew a number of borders.
The part of Germany where myfather was from is no longer
part of Germany.
They just said, we're just the,the Soviet, you need to say,
(14:17):
we're just gonna give this toPoland.
So it's not part of Poland forbetter or worse.
Again, I can't judge that, butand the second time, there were
a lot of residuals from thatdifficult time.
I say of some, some politicaland intellectual oppression from
the, the Soviet era, thoseresiduals were still there.
You could see that the easternpart of Germany still had a lot
(14:40):
of impoverished sections whereit had not, it had not come back
fully, economically industriallyand intellectually as the
western part had.
So for us that was a contrast.
Of course, the whole thing iswherever you go, everybody's
culture is different, and it'sup to us to understand that
they're different.
And the key learning is notbetter or worse, just different.
(15:01):
And I've given talks on culture.
I call it got a mindset.
We all have mindsets.
My first slide in that says, gota mindset, Heinz Plaumann.
And I tell people, you'restarting to think you're making
decisions about me and you don'teven know me.
And then when I open my mouth,they say he doesn't have a
German accent.
You're right, I'm not German.
Why did you assume it's anotherone of those learnings?
(15:23):
Assume less, ask more.
And so I tell people, these arethe kind of things, integrating
into the culture is a key thing.
You don't sell out and becomethem.
Become wherever you are.
But you adapt in a way thatyou're not offensive.
Now again, we've lived indifferent parts of Germany,
we've traveled Germany, we'vetraveled in Europe quite
(15:44):
extensively.
I've been to Asia several times,and I've been to South America
on business ships and thingsthat the cultures are different,
not better or worse, it'sdifferent.
We've lived in the southern partof the United States and that
ain't the Midwest where I'm, inMichigan speaking to you here.
It ain't the same, better orworse.
No, it's just different.
You just have to get used to thevernacular and get used to the
people.
(16:04):
So, it becomes, again, notselling out, just adapting And
saying, if I do it their way, itdoesn't hurt me.
It doesn't hurt them.
And now we can communicate even,even vocabulary.
You know, if you're in certainparts of the United States, it's
called soda.
other parts, it's called Pop.
I say, I say No.
Caroline (16:22):
Another other parts, it's part is just called Coke.
Even if you're getting Sprite,
Heinz (16:25):
Yes
Caroline (16:25):
It's so weird.
Heinz (16:26):
Weird or not, but again, we can't judge it all.
We can say it's what?
It's, so you need to know whenyou into a store, what are you
buying?
Caroline (16:32):
Yeah.
aside from helping others andputting, you know, kind of
developing them, keeping themfirst, but what were some of the
other big lessons that you feelyou learned, while in your
industrial career and leadingand all over the world?
Heinz (16:48):
I had say, probably the biggest lesson to be flexible
and keep learning.
Again, you're not a know-it-all,you're a learn it all.
And, I, was, I say I wentthrough a number of career moves
very quickly.
never was fired or laid off.
But I was always on a, on asteep part of a learning curve,
which meant I never really gotto the top and became an expert,
even in managing and leadinggroups.
(17:08):
And I was okay.
I looked at that and said,that's fine.
I've done enough for this groupto succeed, and now I can go
ahead and take a look atsomething else.
And the, the positions came tome, I'll say, and I don't wanna
say that with any arrogance.
But they saw Heinz is doingstuff in this group that's
helping them contribute to oursuccess.
Therefore, let's move himsomewhere else where he can
contribute to someone else'ssuccess.
(17:29):
There are a lot of messes likethat, organizational messes.
I had to go in and clean up,let's say, and those were my
challenges and I, I enjoyeddoing that.
And then said, yep, okay.
Guess what?
I've done enough.
I'm, I've gotten up on thelearning curve enough that I
think I can move to a newposition.
When a new position becameavailable, I would almost always
take it, even internationalassignments, like I said, I
(17:52):
would look at it and say, howcan I contribute
Caroline (17:54):
awesome.
Heinz (17:55):
have this life fully lived?
Caroline (18:40):
welcome back.
Before the break, Heinz wassharing the kind of wisdom.
Most people only learn the hardway about freedom, alignment,
and creating options throughintentional career design.
Now we get into the creativeside of his journey from music
to mindset to the tools he usesto help others make confident,
(19:01):
fulfilling choices.
How about when it was time toretire, how did you decide and
then what did you switch intoright away after that?
Heinz (19:12):
I had been a lot of say career, the career road mapping.
I had
Caroline (19:15):
Yeah,
Heinz (19:16):
that for, I showed you mine from 1985.
I had been doing that in myindustrial setting with a lot of
colleagues.
So new people were being hiredand they said, you want career
planning?
Go talk to Heinz.
Go talk to Heinz.
He will help you design aroadmap.
He will help you network yourway into various jobs.
So I already had thatreputation.
That's another one of thosepeculiar things.
What comes in the room beforeyou open the door?
(19:36):
Your reputation.
People have beliefs about you,rightly or wrongly.
They have beliefs andconceptions.
Preconceived notions of youbefore you come in the room.
So that was my reputation.
Career planning.
Go talk to Heinz now.
I, so I was doing it internallyand then when I retired, I
retired.
I say pivoted.
I thought, well, maybe I coulddo this.
I could start a company and dothis kind of stuff.
(19:57):
And it, it's worked out well forme.
So I was challenged once by thiswas a senior vice president in
the industry where I worked.
I had lunch with him and he saidthat, why did you retire so
early?
And I said, well, at the time Iwas, I Think maybe 60 ish or so,
and I said, you know, if I wannado this for a while.
Think of this, there aren't toomany good things that happen
when you're in your seventies.
Health wise.
(20:19):
You, you don't become the, theglowing symbol of youth and
longevity when you're in yourseventies.
So I looked at this and said, ifI can do this to help others and
have a life fully lived for thisnext decade or So, then I'll be
very happy and it's going verywell.
So, so that's how I decided.
Caroline (20:36):
One of the things on your LinkedIn had mentioned a
bit about DISC behavior styles.
I love the DISC profiles aswell.
Heinz (20:43):
DISC is one of, they're like more than a dozen of those.
There's disc, there'sMyers-Briggs there's a thing
called insights.
Insights is very good.
And another method.
And they talk about theelements.
They talk about fire and windand and earth.
Very, very good.
Also, Myers-Briggs is all goodthere.
There's another one that I use.
If you go on your phone, you canjust hook on your phone and, and
come up with a thing calledLumina splash and you can do it
(21:07):
right on your phone.
It'll tell you things aboutyourself.
The main thing that I learnedfrom this is these are my
preferences.
It's not what I am and I've seenpeople hide behind this.
I can in Myers breaks orsomething that they'll say,
well, I am an analytical.
That's just your comfort zone.
It's almost an excuse.
I'm an analytical, so I'mallowed to be a nitpicker.
(21:29):
I'm a driver, so I'm allowed togive a lot of orders.
No.
to me, that's, that's not Theappropriate use of these styles
The appropriate use of thesestyles is to say, this is what
gets me going, what getsCaroline going.
So if I know Caroline is anamiable person and I see
Caroline, if I give her a hug,all of a sudden we're gonna
communicate differently and I'mnot giving her orders, wearing
(21:51):
my, my driver hat.
So for me, it's a matter ofsaying, what do you need from me
in terms of your social styles?
And when I give you that, I'm,again, I'm not selling out, I'm
still me, lets me communicatebetter because now I'm on your
footing.
I'm, I'm entering into yourplaying yard, into your yard,
your sandbox,
Caroline (22:11):
So, golden rule.
Treat
Heinz (22:12):
Oh,
Caroline (22:12):
you
Heinz (22:12):
I love that.
Caroline (22:13):
Problem is not everybody wants to be treated
like you.
Platinum rule, treat people likethey wanna be treated, but the
only way to understand how theywanna be treated is to do some
observations and see are theyopen?
Are they direct?
Are they guarded?
Are they people focused or taskfocused?
And then how can we modify ourlanguage so it's best that's the
Heinz (22:32):
Yep
Caroline (22:32):
by the other person?
So
Heinz (22:34):
it.
Look how smart I am now,Caroline Thank you so much.
Well yeah, I didn't come
Caroline (22:39):
up with that.
There's a guy, Tony Alessandrawho had done the DISC assessment
24/7 platform and I loved theirreproducibility, validity, all
of the studies.
I loved their training.
That had been the, thepractitioner I had done even in
recruiting.
And so I just naturally decidedto dive deeper into that.
(23:00):
So I won't, take credit.
I think he coined Platinum Rule,but I do so.
Heinz (23:04):
credit you with the absolute wisdom of finding the
tool and using it, and that'swhat people tell.
I'm sure people tell you, peopletell me, oh, man, you're so
smart.
And I say, man, I don't steal, Iborrow from a lot of people.
I don't make it mine.
But I used the tool.
I didn't invent a single hammeror wrench.
I have lots of them in myworkshop and I can use them.
I can use these tools to help usin our relationship.
(23:25):
I didn't invent them, but thatdoesn't matter.
I can still use them.
They're hammers and wrenches.
Caroline (23:29):
I love I it.
I know this from you staying atthe at the Hard Rock when we saw
each other in San Diego, butyou're quite the musician help
others
Heinz (23:36):
Sure.
Caroline (23:37):
what, kind of musical musical things do, you
concurrently how
Heinz (23:40):
Yeah,
Caroline (23:40):
that career.
your,
Heinz (23:43):
Right.
Now I'm really excited.
I'm excited.
I'm gonna fall outta my chair.
I'm really excited about thisnow.
When I was, when my parentsimmigrated, they said, you are
gonna have the things we did nothave in Europe.
You're gonna go to universityand you're gonna get music
lessons.
Caroline (23:58):
Oh.
Heinz (23:59):
we all had piano lessons, so I studied classical piano,
but I hate classical music.
I shouldn't say I hate, it's noton my list of listening musics,
but nonetheless, it taught meenough to understand.
And then when I got to, touniversity.
I ran into some people and therewere some people playing guitar
in our dorms and I said, well, Ican probably learn to do that.
So I taught myself how to playguitar in graduate school,
(24:21):
country rock, like bands likeThe Eagle kinda came into Vogue
and I thought, well, let me trysome things and stuff like this.
I wound up teaching myself howto play A most peculiar
instrument called the Pedalsteel guitar.
A lot of people, they, it equalscountry music.
It does not.
I play jazz and I've playedclassical stuff on the scene,
but it's an instrument It's likea guitar that you play with a
steel bar and it's got a wholebunch of mechanisms underneath
(24:41):
it that change the tuning.
And I look at that and say,well, this is just fascinating
stuff.
Again, it's me going on theoutside edge of what's kind of
normal and expected and say, I'mgonna teach myself how to play
that.
And I actually taught myself toplay well enough that I got gigs
in bars and concerts and thingslike that when I was in graduate
school.
And then out of graduate school.
I went to work in industry, putthat box away and I did.
(25:04):
And I literally, I put it in thecase for several decades,
carried it with us when We movedto Germany.
Never unpacked it, carried itwith us.
We moved to Charlotte, movedaround, moved to Detroit and
some people here, I met somepeople, I went to a concert or
something and somebody said, I'mlooking for somebody to play a
steel guitar for me.
I said, oh, I can help you.
And so I got back into it andnow I play in a number of bands
(25:25):
kind of on request.
it's just purely hobby stuff.
But it's, it's fun.
I gave a talk, I'm looking at mycalendar on the log a couple
weeks ago at a local librarycalled Music Is Dope.
And at first the, thecoordinator.
The host said, oh, you can'tcall it dope because dope is
like illicit drugs.
And I said, that's like 30 yearsago.
Nowadays, dope means, it's cool.
(25:45):
So I gave this talk called Musicis dope.
Music lets us release all kindsof good, happy hormones.
So when you use music, it helpsyou, it helps others.
We started the talk by singingHappy Birthday to somebody, and
we didn't even get through thesong about halfway through, I
said, stop.
And I said, how do you feel?
(26:05):
We sang Happy Birthday to you.
How do you feel?
Oh, I feel like a million bucks.
How do you guys, you guys arejust in the audience I, how do
you feel?
The participants, they said, oh,we feel good too.
Yeah, so music is very helpfulthat way.
So for me, music is a veryimportant release of, of stress,
energy, and it's just a way tohelp other people be happy too.
Help them have lives fullylived.
Caroline (26:26):
Now, When it was in the case for those decades, did
you have other musical thingsthat you were doing aside
playing that from playing likewere you singing, what was the
Heinz (26:37):
I'm not a, I guess I'm an adequate singer, but I wouldn't
say that I don't sing.
But I played in some, some, likesome church groups and stuff.
They just almost kinda like,well, can you learn to play
this?
I said, yeah.
So, it's a matter of being,again, being flexible enough.
And so I'd never played a bassguitar and we were living in
Germany and again, it happenedto be a church group.
They said, we really need a bassguitar.
I said, I don't know, but youcould try.
(26:58):
And I did, and now I just loveplaying bass.
Caroline (27:00):
Oh that's amazing.
Heinz (27:01):
Well, it's one of those things if you try new things,
that's what I tell people.
Keep learning new things.
Stretch your, spread your wingsa bit, and keep learning new
things because you'll be amazedat how much you didn't know and
how much fun it is to learn newstuff.
It becomes really rewarding.
So I taught myself to play bassand I actually played bass in
this geography here in a, swingband, like a, an old, forties
(27:24):
and fifties jazz band, BenMiller kind of band.
And I did that for a number ofyears and then I started playing
steel guitar again.
So, for me, music is a very,very important part of my life
and I love to share it.
Caroline (27:33):
Have you ever thought, what if I had done this
differently or what advice wouldyou have wanted your 25, 35,
even 45 year old self to hear orto know?
Heinz (27:45):
And this will sound, it won't sound like what most
people wanna hear about.
So yeah.
What would you tell your 25 yearold self?
I would say keep learning newstuff.
Don't be afraid to learn newstuff.
Don't be afraid to try things?
Would I have changed things?
I don't know.
I have had a wonderful ride.
When I look at the way my careerprogressed in the industry.
(28:06):
I'll share this little storywith you.
I was hired as a researchchemist into an industry and got
to know, because a lot of theresearch we were doing was
directly into production areas,so I spent a lot of time with
production people and they said,Hey, why didn't you come work
with us in production as aprocess chemist?
And I did.
And then I said, well, let's do,what else?
(28:26):
So then I went back to schoolafter my PhD and got a master's
in chemical engineering.
I said, this is awesome.
The company I worked for wastaking over and taking apart.
Life happens.
That's business.
We talked about business, it'sall about the money.
And I wound up working for aGerman company and then they
said, but you're kind of aGerman, guy and you speak some
German, you should come vote forus in Germany.
You know?
And that's when we moved toGermany.
(28:48):
And of course that group thatthey had, they moved that group
to North Carolina.
So on our return they said,well, you can't go back there.
You have to go to NorthCarolina.
So we did.
So it's a matter of being opento stuff, assessing.
You're always making decisions.
And typically we make about 30to 40,000 decisions a day.
And people say You're crazy.
It takes about 20 decisions tochange lanes on the road.
(29:09):
Really?
Think about it.
Caroline (29:10):
Yeah.
Heinz (29:10):
It does.
Now, when we're confronted witha decision, I say, get all the
inputs you can, all theknowledge, all the stuff that
goes in your head, and then say,pluses and minuses.
You know, pros and cons.
And then say, this is mydecision.
And then don't forget to checkdown here.
Check in your gut.
Because there's somethingmagical that happens down there
that says, good decision or not.
(29:32):
Good decision or not.
And so get your information, getthe input.
And then decide and check yourgut, and then go ahead and do
it, and then make the best ofit.
So I don't think I wouldn'tthrow my career up, up and down
and say, let's changeeverything.
I wouldn't do that because itworked out very well for me.
I I had that life fully lived.
Caroline (29:51):
How do people now?
How now?
do you end up working withpeople, help them out.
Helping them have lives fullylived.
Heinz (29:58):
A lot of it is through the internet.
I use, I am a very, very activeLinkedIn user.
And, it's funny, we just talkedbriefly about my reentry to the
music scene.
People in bands came to me andsaid like, where do we find you?
And I said, well, I'm onLinkedIn.
They said, we don't know whatthat is, are like you, are you
on Facebook and I, said, well,when my kids were growing up,
(30:20):
Facebook kinda came into Vogueand I, always thought it was a
little juvenile, but now I'm onFacebook too.
But LinkedIn would be the bestplace to find me.
And you can connect with methere.
It has all kinds of little, whatI call flashcard leadership
videos, little videos aboutthings.
There are about three to fiveminutes long and you can see
some examples there.
And then you can connect with methrough that.
Our website is, Heinzsight.org.
(30:42):
Like Heinz, my name,Heinz.
Site, S-I-G-H-T.org that's it.
.org.
Yep.
You can connect with me thereand send me an email.
Connect with me there.
And I, I, again, I, I'mdelighted to help other people,
so.
Caroline (30:54):
I'm big on trying to help people achieve authentic
success.
How do you define authenticsuccess for you?
In this moment.
Heinz (31:03):
I would say knowing that I have had and still am having
this life fully lived To know, Iview I've done the best I could
with what I have, and I'vehelped others achieve the best
they could with what they have.
And so that, that's a lot ofwishy-washy stuff.
And how do you measure thatstuff?
And I know people say, well, ifyou can't measure it, it can't
(31:25):
be done.
And what gets measured getsdone.
And I check in here and say, howdo you feel life fully live?
Man, I'm happy.
I am very happy and I go backand ask people.
I say, so have I helped you?
I do that frequently.
I'll say, have I helped you?
And how's it going for you?
And again, I will get thosekinds of responses from them.
So
Caroline (31:44):
Well, I want to thank you so much.
I may end up having you as arecurring guest every now and
then'cause I love a lot of thoseflashcard leadership videos.
They're so good.
They're so quick.
If they're insightful, you caneasily take action on them.
I adore every conversation thatwe ever get to have.
I always enjoy meeting you.
And I also like so if you guyshaven't connected with Heinz yet
(32:06):
on LinkedIn, please do.
And you also need to know if heever sees you in person that
he's gonna end up posting aboutit and writing about it to help
you and your network grow evenmore.
So that's the other thing islike, you always get to learn
and see so many other new andamazing folks just because they
happen to know you.
You're the common link between alot of people's success.
(32:27):
So definitely appreciate
Heinz (32:28):
Thank you.
Caroline (32:28):
That.
Heinz (32:29):
Thank you.
Caroline (32:30):
If something Heinz said sparked a new perspective
for you or reminded you of thelife that you want to live
fully.
You can connect with him@heinzsight.org.
That's H-E-I-N-Z-S-I-G-H t.org.
Or on LinkedIn, you can connectwith him.
Heinz Plaumann.
Check out his flashcardleadership videos, career
(32:51):
mapping resources, and thoughtleadership for real practical
inspiration.
And if you're ready to exploreyour own roadmap to align
success, visitNextSuccessCareers.com and
discover what's possible whenyou stop settling and start
aligning.
Heinz, thank you so much forsharing your story, your tools,
(33:14):
and your presence with us today.
You have lived a life thatproves success can evolve and
that it's never too late toalign with something more
meaningful.
You don't need to have all theanswers right now.
You just need to start askingbetter questions about who you
are, what you value, and whatyou want the rest of your life
(33:35):
to feel like Your Next Successis already inside you, waiting
for the permission to emerge.
Keep going.
You are not done yet.
Thanks for listening to YourNext Success with Dr.
Caroline Sangal.
Remember, authentic success isyours to define and includes
(33:56):
aligning your career to supportthe life you want.
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