November 11, 2025 • 41 mins
What if your next opportunity isn’t waiting in another online application—but in how you tell your story?
In this episode of Your Next Success, Dr. Caroline Sangal sits down with Amy L. Adler, President of Five Strengths Career Transition Experts, to talk about how powerful storytelling transforms careers.
Amy is one of the most respected voices in the executive career space. Since founding her firm in 2009, she has helped hundreds of leaders and their teams clarify their message, communicate value, and earn roles aligned with their purpose. She holds multiple top industry certifications, including Certified Executive Resume Master, Certified Master Resume Writer, and Nationally Certified Online Profile Expert, and is the author of Courageous Career Change: Fearlessly Earn the Executive Role You Deserve.
In this conversation, Amy shares what makes a resume work, how to move beyond bullet points to authentic stories of impact, and why confidence begins with clarity.
You’ll hear:
✔️ How to transform a resume from a list of duties into a story of results
✔️ Why data and storytelling together build credibility
✔️ What AI tools miss when they try to “write” for you
✔️ How to stand out with integrity in a noisy job market
✔️ The one mindset shift that makes career storytelling easier—and more human
🎧 Listen now and learn more about Amy’s work at https://www.fivestrengths.com.
Subscribe to Your Next Success so you never miss an episode.
Watch full video episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@NextSuccessMethod/
Learn more about Next Success www.nextsuccesscareers.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caroline (00:03):
What if your next opportunity isn't waiting in
another online application, butin how you tell your story.
When your career is on paper,every word counts.
It is not just about listingwhat you've done, it's about
showing who you've become, whatyou deliver, and where you're
(00:25):
going next, because claritycommunicates confidence.
If you've ever wondered how tostand out in a crowded market or
how to translate years ofexperience into one clear,
compelling message, thisconversation is for you.
This is the Your Next Successpodcast, and I'm your host, Dr.
(00:47):
Caroline Sangal.
I'm a life first career coachand strategist on a mission to
normalize questioning yourcareer because I believe each of
us is made on purpose for apurpose only we can fulfill.
The longer we live out ofalignment with who we are, what
we do best, and why we're here,the more we miss out.
(01:08):
And the more the world missesout on what only we can give.
The Your Next Success Podcast iswhere we explore how to build a
career that truly fuels yourlife.
We talk about self-discovery,smart job, search strategies,
professional growth, and you'llhear stories from people who've
navigated big career transitionsthemselves so you can see what
(01:31):
it's really like to make boldchanges and feel inspired to
create your own version ofauthentic success, one that is
aligned, meaningful, and trulyyours.
Today I'm joined by Amy l Adler,president of Five Strengths
Career Transition Experts, afirm specializing in resume
(01:52):
writing for executives and theirteams.
Since launching her business in2009, Amy has worked with
hundreds of leaders to help themtell their stories with clarity
and power.
Amy is one of the mostcredentialed professionals in
her field holding the CertifiedExecutive Resume Master,
Certified Master Resume Writer,and Nationally Certified Online
(02:15):
profile Expert designations.
She's a past TORI award winner,current judge, An MBA graduate
from Boston College and theauthor of Courageous Career
Change, Fearlessly Earn theExecutive Role You Deserve.
Her approach combines strategy,psychology, and storytelling to
help executives earn rolesaligned with both their
(02:37):
expertise and their purpose.
In this episode, Amy and I talkabout how to make job search
more human, how to move beyondgeneric bullet points and into
real stories of impact.
She shares what makes a resumework, how to use data to prove
value, and why the best resumesdon't just describe, they
(02:59):
differentiate.
We also explore the emotionalside of transition, the fear,
the uncertainty, and thesurprising piece that comes when
your story finally fits.
Amy gives practical,compassionate advice for job
seekers navigating change, andher insight will remind you that
(03:20):
career storytelling is notself-promotion, it is self
clarity.
If you've been applying andhearing silence this episode
will help you determine why andwhat to do next.
Welcome, Amy, to Your NextSuccess.
I am so thrilled to have youhere today.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (03:39):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Caroline (03:40):
Absolutely.
So as you know, one of thethings I love talking about is
careers, career transitions, andso we are gonna get to that you
are an amazing resume writer,that you do phenomenal work with
people to really help tell theirstory better.
We'll get to that, but I'd loveto kind of dial it back and
rewind and talk about your storyof how you got to be doing this
(04:04):
wonderful, helpful thing.
So, as you think back to yourchildhood, tell me a little bit
about it.
Like where did you grow up?
What did you like to do?
Amy Adler, Executive Resume W (04:13):
I grew up in the eastern part of
Pennsylvania, just north ofPhiladelphia, in a town that at
that time I think had twotraffic lights and it was a lot
of farmland.
My elementary school, abutted acornfield and a dairy.
It was very quiet and verypeaceful.
When I was in fifth grade,somebody asked me what I wanted
to be when I grow up.
'cause I guess you have to askevery fifth grader what they
(04:34):
want to be when they grow up.
I said, is there this some jobwhere all I could do all day is
just read books because that'show I spend all my free time.
Caroline (04:41):
Oh wow.
Amy Adler, Executive (04:42):
Literally, if I didn't have to go out to
recess and I got to spend, youknow, when there was ever indoor
recess'cause of the weather orsomething, I was like, great, I
could just sit and read a bookand No, don't talk to me.
I loved it and, and people werelike, no, that's not a job.
Ha ha.
That's really funny.
But many years later, my firstcareer and actually my first
academic experience postcollege, was in book publishing.
So I did in fact get a job whereI was reading books all day.
(05:04):
Um, not the really cool, funfiction ones, but I worked in
medical publishing for the mostpart.
Caroline (05:09):
Well, it's still cool though.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (05:11):
It was fun.
If there was a red pencil, I washolding it.
I got to work really closelywith the authors and it was
amazing.
And then, so I did that for along time and then I went to
business school had to figureout kind of what I wanted to do,
this sort of new education.
So I did, and I worked, inproject management at a big
website, with medical contentfor a long time.
(05:32):
And, and then I stopped workingand I was a stay-at-home parent,
to two amazing humans who arenow adults.
Caroline (05:39):
Congratulations, right?
Like that's
Amy Adler, Executive Resum (05:42):
They made it to adulthood.
I feel like we won.
Caroline (05:43):
Right?
I can't keep plants alive, but Ihave two humans that are still
living.
So,
Amy Adler, Executive Resume W (05:48):
I honestly, I think humans are a
little bit easier to keep alive.
But they demand all kinds ofattention that plants just
don't.
So anyway, after giving them allthis attention, I was like, now
that my kids are in school, Iwanna get back to being me and
what am I gonna do?
And I didn't know if I wanted togo back into publishing, I
wanted to use my education and Iwanted to do something that fit
(06:08):
my self perception of being theperson behind the scenes, doing
what it takes to make somebodyelse look really, really good.
And by happenstance, I wound upwriting a resume for a friend of
mine.
I was a great salesperson, not agreat writer.
So she said, I don't know ifthat's really true.
That's what she said.
And she's like, oh, I know youcome from this background.
mostly'cause people conflateediting and writing, which is, I
(06:31):
guess reasonable, but I wasn'treally writing up until that
point, I was just editing.
And I wrote a resume and she gotthis interview and then she got
an offer for the job.
And I felt like, Hey, I didsomething I didn't know was even
a thing and cast about for awhile to figure out how to put
this into action and got a jobwriting resumes, working for
another company, writingresumes.
(06:52):
And that's honestly how mostpeople get into resume writing,
who don't come through HR, whodon't come through some like
talent acquisition or whateverit might be.
I just came up througheditorial, wrote a lot of
resumes those first couple ofyears.
Wrote a lot of resumes, on myfree time, some free time I
didn't have,'cause I still hadlittle kids who were in school
part of the time.
Right?
And a couple years into it, Istarted doing my own.
(07:15):
And that was probably 13, 14years ago now.
Caroline (07:18):
wow.
Amy Adler, Executive Resum (07:18):
I've been running my own show ever
since.
It was hard to part ways withthis person.
I considered a mentor and afriend and we stayed friends and
there was no hard feelings.
I wanted to test my metal.
Caroline (07:28):
There's very few pieces of content that I latched
onto as helpful as far asresumes.
But as I was preparing for ourepisode, I was like, oh my gosh.
Of course, of course Amy workedfor this place because I thought
that place has some really greatcontent and absolutely helpful.
So, but how did you find thatjob?
So you did a resume for afriend, it worked out well, and
(07:50):
then you thought, let's see ifthere's companies and that one
just popped up, or, how did thatwork out?
Amy Adler, Executive Res (07:57):
Pretty much she was advertising to hire
somebody
Caroline (07:59):
Wow.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume W (08:00):
I was perusing, I guess Indeed or
Craigslist or something likethat, trying to figure out what
can I do with the time that Ihave.
Caroline (08:09):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (08:10):
At that point my time was, you
know, bracketed by what my kidswere requiring of me.
'Cause I wanted to be a parentto them too.
And I guessed I gave it a shotand she took a chance she was so
supportive.
And encourage me to getcertified, initially and
encouraged me to go to my firstresume writing conference.
And I guess that must have beenin 2010.
(08:31):
And she also encouraged me in mysort of newness to the industry
to put a submission into theTORI Awards.
Caroline (08:38):
What are the TORI awards?
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (08:40):
So the TORI Awards, the toast of
the resume industry, issponsored by Career Directors
International, which is where Ihave my most of my
certifications through.
And it's I think, one of theoldest, competitions for resume
writers.
And so of course I found thebest one I'd worked on and
submitted it and got allexcited.
And of course I was heartbrokenwhen in my very first time I
(09:03):
didn't even get a nod.
I didn't even get a nomination.
I don't know what I wasthinking.
Of course, I didn't.
But the weird thing is, Iprobably submitted something the
following year or two as well.
I have here, I can tell you2012, I framed my award.
Caroline (09:14):
Oh, that's awesome.
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (09:15):
Yeah.
I submitted for the ExecutiveResume Writing Category, which
is pretty substantive.
There's nine categories usually.
Some number of categories, but,I won first place that year out
of never having won anythingbefore, and I did not know what
to make of that.
I didn't know what to think.
I didn't know how to handle it.
(09:36):
couldn't believe it.
still can't believe it.
It was amazing.
And, I won, I placed again thefollowing year, and then I took
a year or so off and I've beenjudging ever since.
And the thing about judging isknowing how life changing it is
to be nominated is what drivesme because I want people to feel
that magic.
I don't know how it happened forme, I can't even tell you, but
(09:58):
I'm so glad to be part ofpeople's successes now.
I guess it's the same thing.
I guess anybody hearing this nowis gonna know that I'm a judge,
but it's not exactly a secret,but it's also, um, mostly double
blind.
I don't know who I'm reading andthey don't know me particularly
until the whole thing comes out.
Caroline (10:15):
Do they have a conference or a ceremony or you
just find out in the mail, likehow does that work out?
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (10:19):
Let's see.
The first time that I didn't winwas at a conference, so I had to
just like, sit there.
Caroline (10:24):
I would've been like, don't cry, don't cry, don't cry.
Be happy for somebody.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (10:29):
But I'll tell you what happened.
When I won the first time theysend an email out.
But I was busy doing whatever Iwas doing.
And then the president, I don'tknow if she remembers this, the
president of the society, calledme on the phone and I'd been
doing some volunteer work so itwasn't all together weird that
she would've reached out.
I'm like, Hey, what's going on?
Tell me, you know what I can Ido to help you?
And she's like, are you kiddingme?
(10:49):
And I was like, what?
Have you seen your email?
Uh, no, no, no, I haven't.
And yeah, so that's how I foundout.
Caroline (10:56):
Oh, that's cool though.
Amy Adler, Executive Resum (10:57):
They just do it in email.
The conferences for thatparticular society haven't
happened I think for a while.
I think COVID made a mess of alot of things.
The conference that that I'vebeen participating in quite
heavily, is the National ResumeWriters Association, which is
different because it's anonprofit kind of member run
organization.
And my colleague and I presentedtogether last year and we're
(11:17):
presenting together again in amonth.
I like to be with my people,whether it's through this
organization or through theother one.
The idea that there are otherpeople doing this thing that
most people don't even know as abusiness or a service,
Caroline (11:31):
Yes.
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (11:32):
Means we get to hang out for two,
three days once a year andremember why we all do this and
support each other and teacheach other and learn from each
other.
It's awesome.
Caroline (11:43):
How many official resume writers do you think
there are, like in thoseorganizations and all that like.
You know, but everybody needs aresume at some point in their
life.
Everybody realizes that theyneed help.
Not everyone realizes that thereare indeed certified
professionals genuinely lovingdoing this and helping other
(12:06):
people.
But how many is this a, like a10 or is it like hundreds, you
know?
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (12:12):
Yeah, probably hundreds.
So there's a couple ofprofessional societies that
confer certifications, which Ipromise are hard won.
They're not you just write acheck and they send you
something.
It's not like that at all.
It's tests and portfolio reviewsand continuing education and all
the things you have to do.
So I don't know how many thereare, but I can say that the
people who commit to theindustry by putting in the time.
(12:35):
Getting continuing education,whether it's in conferences or
other ways.
'cause there's plenty of ways todo it, going the extra mile to
get certified, paying attentionto what the societies are doing,
these are head and shouldersabove the scam artists.
There's no other way to say itthat exist on social media
platforms that are really givingresume writing a bad name.
Caroline (12:55):
Mm-hmm.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (12:55):
And I think if this is what people
hear all the time, they're goingto understandably tar everyone
with the same brush.
Caroline (13:03):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (13:04):
But I have not met a legitimate
resume writer yet who I thoughtwas out to scam.
Caroline (13:08):
Mm-hmm.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume W (13:09):
I think people care so much about
doing right by the people whoplace their trust in us.
Caroline (13:17):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume W (13:17):
I can't speak for every single
resume writer anywhere but Ialso haven't met a resume writer
worth their salt who is pitchingtheir services left, right, and
center in a, sort of in yourface, kind of obnoxious way.
Everybody talks about what theydo because this is what we do,
it's our job.
Caroline (13:32):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (13:32):
But the ones who are spamming up
your inbox with, hire my personat,
Caroline (13:39):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Res (13:39):
Fiverr or whatever, not to slam Fiverr
I think Fiverr is great.
Just people should check whatthey're getting themselves into
and make sure they're talking toa legitimate person, and that
person's gonna do right by them.
Caroline (13:49):
Mm-hmm.
And so what does the processlook like if somebody wants to
have help writing their resume?
How does that even work?
You know, one of the maybe wrongways to go about it that many
people do is take out the lastversion of their resume and just
try to quickly modify a tiny bitand give the new version.
(14:11):
But if, even if that lastversion hadn't been written.
Amazingly, or from the ground upprofessionally, it could be a
little bit limiting.
So it, let's say it's me and Icome to you and I'm like, Amy,
here's the deal.
I now want to go find a jobworking for somebody else.
I've got all these experiencesthat may or may not align with
(14:32):
what I'm trying to do.
How do you help people sort thatout?
What's the process?
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (14:37):
So there's all kinds of ways to do
this, right?
All kinds of ways.
The one way to do this wrong isto not engage with the
individual.
For me not to ask you as manyquestions as I could think of
about what you've done And howwell you've done it and what you
want to do next to refrain oravoid those hard questions.
(15:00):
Makes the work very easy.
It's easy to rearrange words onthe page.
Caroline (15:04):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resum (15:04):
It's also not resume writing.
I don't know what it isactually.
Maybe that falls somewhere intothe unsavory side
Caroline (15:10):
Hmm.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (15:11):
of kind of what I was talking about
before.
I want, as a resume writer, Iwould want to know every last
thing about you.
certainly enough for me to beable to say, I know what she
knows how to do.
Here's the proof as to how wellshe has done this in all of
these situations over these manyyears.
And I also know where she'sgoing
Caroline (15:32):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume W (15:32):
I can take that body of knowledge
that is her experience and frameit for the next thing that the
future audience understand whyshe's standing in front of them,
They shouldn't know I exist,right?
As a resume writer, I amcompletely invisible.
I should be.
Although I think probably smartrecruiters and hiring teams know
when a resume's beenprofessionally done.
Caroline (15:54):
Well, I could definitely tell when, when ones
were getting my attention when Iwas doing recruiting versus the
ones that just straight didn't.
Right?
the ones that were listing everysingle thing somebody had ever
done.
Without actually relating to thejob at hand or why they wanted
it.
Ones that didn't say, you know,an objective of what they were
(16:16):
actually looking for, if theyhad a varied experience or
hadn't kind of tied it together.
Those ones didn't get my or theones that read like, a CV with
everybody's publications.
And it was a job that didn'trequire publications, so it
just.
Those were my standouts.
But hey, who knows?
Perhaps I helped somebody thatdid have a professionally
(16:38):
written resume.
But as you look at resumes, youknow, the, maybe the first
version somebody gives you whatstands out to you as far as
these are criteria that make agreat one in your eyes, and
these are criteria that are notso great.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume W (16:52):
I would say people hire me because
they know they need help.
So I am judgment free about whatcrosses my desk.
Mostly because maybe once a yearthis isn't true, but the 99
point whatever percent of thetime, rest of the time these
people know that they needsomething different.
They know that they needsomething new.
(17:13):
So I ask for their existingresume, not to point a finger at
them,
Caroline (17:18):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (17:18):
But to help them understand why
there's so much more.
This is, this is almostuniversally the case, why
there's so much more.
To who they are and what theystand for and what they're good
at than their resume.
The typical things that I wouldsee normally are not enough
detail.
Too much of this is what HRthinks my job is, which is plus
(17:39):
or minus the truth, right?
It could be close to it, butit's not always the truth.
And no objective measurement ofhow well they did that thing.
So a salesperson might talkabout number of outreaches per
day, and these might be acrossvarious modalities.
it's phone calls, or maybe it'smeeting people face to face or
whatever it's going to be, oremails.
(18:00):
Then what kind of presentationsare they giving?
What kind of conversions arethey, uh, yielding?
And these are all things thatcan be measured.
So not every job in every casehas something that can be
measured, but probably 80 to 85%of jobs have stuff that can be
measured.
One notable thing that I learnedvery on isn't very measurable is
audits.
Audits are either you pass oryou pass.
Caroline (18:20):
Right, right.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (18:21):
Of course if you don't pass, you
can have remediations and thatkind of a thing, but it's, it's
on or off, yes or no.
Whereas most jobs are not quitethat black and white, and they
have that measure output oryield or deliverables or
dollars, and these areincontrovertible facts the
person has delivered this manysales dollars or, hired this
(18:42):
many people, whatever it mightbe.
So the person who's the end userof this resume, the hiring team
can say that they don't wantsomebody who's sold this much
stuff or hired this many people,but they can't say what that
person did or the, the, theinformation that that person's
report reporting about what theydid.
They can't say that's wrong orthat's false information.
(19:02):
They can just make an evaluationas to whether they want that
thing or not.
Caroline (19:05):
Yeah.
When people put in a bulletpoint what they were supposed to
do, but not actually talkingabout what they actually did in
some sort of quantifiable way,it's hard, right?
Because everybody may have beensupposed to with uphold safety
standards, right?
But if they helped develop fivenew SOPs for safety or
something, that's a reallyhelpful.
(19:27):
Quantification as far as likeif, if anybody looks at their
resume and you first pull yourjob description and you copy a
lot of that, not the way to go,but maybe tell me about a time
when you had to do thatresponsibility.
How, well, how much, how many,all of those things.
I, I agree, agree a hundredpercent with that.
What are some other tips thatyou have as far as like how
(19:51):
somebody can, I mean, obviouslyhow somebody can get a great
resume would be to work with aprofessional such as yourself.
And in the world of AI, when somany people now think that
whether they have the freeversion of ChatGPT or they pay
20 bucks a month, they think,ah, this is gonna be just fine.
(20:12):
Help them understand what'slimiting in that respect, and
how a real professional canelevate that.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (20:22):
If we start from the premise, I'm
so glad you asked this question.
If we start from the premisethat every person is inherently
interesting, thoughtful, andprobably good at their job in
the unique, unique way, thatthey are good at their job.
So I'm good at my job in acertain way.
You're good at your job in acertain way, and other people
who do similar things to us aregood at their jobs their own
way.
(20:42):
And just because we show up ourway, doesn't mean everybody else
will show up our way.
So if we, if we own that sharethat kind of a story, the resume
can be about no other person theindividual for whom it's
written.
And it's of course, like I said,my job to learn as much as
possible about that person so Ican put on their thoughts and
(21:03):
their perceptions and their winsand, and the way they feel about
stuff and, and be them on paperso they can, they can own this
document that is uniquely aboutthem.
ChatGPT is not quite asinsightful.
I was speaking with a hiringmanager some time ago who I saw
this post on LinkedIn and I hadto reach out'cause it was, it
was the craziest story that shewas hiring for a writer, a
(21:26):
marketing job.
So was writing involved, and wasgetting identical cover letters
for the role from variouspeople.
And apparently it's just athing.
You take that job posting, throwit into some large language
model and you get something spitout.
But anyone else who does, that'sgonna get the same thing because
the ChatGPT or what have you,doesn't know any more about you.
(21:48):
At that point it knows nothingabout you but doesn't know any
more than what you tell it.
So of course it's gonna givejust what it can interpolate
from all the data that's outthere, which is the same access
that everybody else has.
So nothing sounds unique.
And the same is true.
I imagine if somebody threw ajob posting and their says,
write me a resume, except now weare in a world of hurt because
the language model will startpulling things that might not be
(22:09):
true, or guessing or makingstuff up, they call
hallucinating, right?
Caroline (22:13):
yes.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (22:14):
it might say, oh, speaks French
fluently.
And you're like, I don't speakFrench.
I don't understand where thiscame from.
And then you get called on thatin your interview or in the
first round of of conversations.
Then you have to come clean thatyou don't in fact speak French,
even though your resume says so.
So this has this enormous impactof making it really hard for the
job seekers because they'retrying to do something on the
(22:36):
quick and trying to save time orwhatever, but they look silly
and, and it's ineffective forthem and the whole process gets
gummed up because there's thesedozens of AI driven resumes and
cover letters that are soperfect that they can't possibly
be real.
And then, when the hiring teamtries to call the people behind
these documents to corroborateall this data, it's just not
(22:58):
there.
So really nobody wins.
I mean, zero people are winningwhen ChatGPT is offered free
reign.
Caroline (23:05):
Right.
That's amazing that the job asthe example was marketing
related, where writing was a keycomponent.
And you'd think those peoplehave amazing skills, education,
knowledge, experience, but for aquick shortcut to then have
their cover letters be nearlythe same as other people's,
(23:26):
like, oh my goodness.
How terrifying is that, oh.
so now an interesting thing thatI thought was Imagine what your
life would be like if yourcareer aligned with who you are,
what you do best, and actuallyfueled the life you want.
At Next Success, we support allages and stages through career
(23:48):
transitions from studentsexploring majors or careers to
job seekers actively searchingor re-imagining their next move
to professionals committed toself-awareness and leadership
growth.
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(24:11):
also kind of cool about yourstory in your career is after a
while of having, advanceddegrees doing all this work, you
then went back to school.
Tell us about that.
Like what kind of prompted thatand.
How does, I think it's amazing.
I think it's an amazingskillset, but not a well outed
(24:32):
in a great way.
But you are more than just aresume person.
You also have amazing diversityof skills and assets and in a
wonderful computer world, I whowouldn't want to have that.
So, but
Amy Adler, Executive Res (24:47):
you're so kind.
Caroline (24:48):
yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (24:48):
But you're right.
Yes, I did do this.
So I have a graduate work, but Ialways also, when I was in fifth
grade, thought the coolest thingwas computers were just becoming
available to the point wherethey could be in our classrooms
occasionally.
And I thought this was the mostfascinating thing ever.
And I didn't know anything abouthow to program.
I knew nothing about how theyworked, but I thought this was
(25:10):
like, I saw something reallyinteresting.
But of course I was eased intolanguages.
So, of course English,'causethis is what I do every day.
But also Spanish and then incollege, I studied Russian for a
little while.
Caroline (25:24):
Oh wow.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (25:24):
it was just like this thing that I
knew how to do.
Like I, I, I loved it.
but for whatever reason, um.
I chose to do computer scienceas a science class in, in high
school, and no one ever said,even then, this is language.
You were learning a language.
And I think if I had made thatconnection, would've, I would've
gone to college for computerprogramming.
But people were like, you haveto study language, but language
(25:46):
and computer science, justsomehow, like there was the Venn
diagram didn't overlap.
So I always had this idea that Iwanted to learn and, I started
at the community college, justbefore actually, right as COVID
hit.
Our first semester was, cutshort and we had to do
everything virtually.
I guess it was in March orsomething.
and I, I luckily didn't have torepeat, you know, freshman.
Caroline (26:06):
Oh, thank God.
Yeah, exactly.
That's a great thing aboutcollege credit.
They stay forever, which is sogood.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (26:13):
But I was like, well, if you want me
to, I will.
I got to do a full associate ofscience and computer science
just'cause I wanted to just'cause I wanted to learn.
And I have used that work.
I don't do it professionally,but in the way that I do what I
do with my resume writingclients is heavily based on this
sort of technology backbone thatI never would've been able to do
(26:35):
without having had thatexperience.
So I don't regret it for asecond.
It was more like a hobby than acareer path.
I am, I'm so glad I did'cause Iget to use it in ways that I
think my colleagues probablydon't.
Caroline (26:48):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume W (26:48):
I found ways to simplify my life.
I like the operations aspect ofit.
Caroline (26:52):
Oh, that's nice.
So what are, what are some waysthat you simplify your life?
Do tell, do tell.
What are these backgroundprocesses?
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (27:00):
Okay, so here's one.
I use the Google Workspaceecosystem, for reasons it don't
matter here, but I am heavilyinvested in this now.
I pay my monthly fee and I getall this access to stuff.
I wanted to be able to, downloadmy Google calendar to a
spreadsheet so I had copies ofeverything and then I could do
something with the data thatcame out of that.
(27:21):
So every night I have Aron jobthat runs and I download the
days prior, appointments, andthey get all sorted into
different types, and then I cankeep track of who I talked to,
what the purpose of the call wasother stuff like, you know,
dentist appointments and stuffthat, that gets filtered into,
you know, other mess of things.
And I have an ongoingspreadsheet that captures
everything and I don't have todo it by hand.
Caroline (27:42):
Oh, that's so amazing.
Oh, that's so amazing.
And plus even I guess, fortrying to figure out what was
work time versus not work time,you know?
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive R (27:51):
Goodness if I did that
Caroline (27:53):
How has your definition of what you thought
success.
Was like changed throughout theebbs and flows of your career,
like when you were little, whatdid you think it was to be
successful?
What were examples of that?
And then as you kind of grewand, and had a family, and even
now, like how is this definitionchanging for you over time?
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (28:14):
So when I was that 11-year-old kid,
This was in the eighties, andGod bless the women who came
before us and set up a situationor an environment or culture in
which they could.
They told us young girls that wecould do anything.
I don't know if that was still ahundred percent true when I was
a young kid in the eighties.
I think, as I said, I wasn'tushered into computer science
(28:37):
even though I had absolutelyperfect grades computer
programming.
I don't know.
I don't know whether, I justdidn't think of it or people
didn't tell me or whatever, butwhen we were all children, the
the standard answers to what doyou wanna be when you grow up?
Were mostly like, you know,nurse, teacher, whatever.
Like, we didn't know.
And I think because our parentsdidn't know.
So for me to be able to do whatI do like this every single day
(29:00):
and, and be exactly what.
In the chair that I think I wasmeant to be in professionally.
And then to have the privilege,the absolute privilege of
telling my daughters who are nowyoung adults, that they
literally can do anything
Caroline (29:13):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (29:13):
and mean it.
Because there has been enoughtime for generational I don't
know, whatever it is, the gears,the works have moved forward
sufficiently that there was noquestion that they could do
anything they wanted.
I actually once asked my olderone who was a, a science major
in college, did you ever thinklike, did anyone ever tell you
(29:34):
you couldn't do this?
And she looked at me like I hadnine heads.
She's like, why would anybodytell me that?
And I was like, this is thedefinition of success.
This is the definition ofsuccess in which we can do
whatever we want, however wewant.
I actually also asked her, thisis, this is embarrassing in a
way, but also emblematic, Ithink of what's possible.
So I've always worked at home,because I can work wherever I
(29:55):
want and I love my desktop and Idon't wanna, I don't wanna move
it
Caroline (29:58):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (29:59):
And I once said to her, do you think
I have a job?
And again, she looked at me likeI had nine heads.
She's like, of course you have ajob as if to say like, did you
hit your head because did youjust not come from your office
where you do work things allday?
But I wanted to see what herperception was and to know that
whatever choices either of themmake, on their terms
Caroline (30:20):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (30:20):
and they get to be as successful as
they decide they want to be withnobody holding them back.
To me that's miraculous.
And this is, you know, ageneration and a half, from mom
who was a social worker, mymother-in-law who was a teacher.
Like these were our role models,but things have really changed.
Caroline (30:35):
Yeah, they have, that's one of the components I
like to try to help people whenthey're trying to figure out
what they wanna do with theircareer first.
I'm like, okay, well we have totalk about what would you love
to do with your life first, andthen how can your career fuel
that?
And so I kind of go througheight different factors and
family is one of them.
So the family you came fromshapes a lot about what you
think is even possible fromwork, what you know is
(30:58):
available, and then the familyas it evolves, the family that
you end up having.
That shapes a lot because I toowas a stay at home mom for a
while.
I needed to drop off and pick upmy kids, right?
And then when I came back, Ineeded to have something that
fit into that instead ofdetracted from it.
So, but a lot of times peopledon't know and they don't
understand what else is even outthere.
(31:21):
If it was, I mean, my mom was anurse, my dad was a teacher,
principal, superintendent.
How did I get into science?
I don't know.
He told me to do it.
Girl, you should.
I don't think teaching's gonnasupport the lifestyle.
I think you wanna be accustomedto.
So you should do something withmath and science related items.
Now it's also so cool becausethere are so many interconnected
(31:44):
databases to suggest to people,right?
So you can look at the, yourinterests and your interest
profile, and that will show up abunch of jobs that align with
your interests.
I have an assessment that peoplecan look at their natural
abilities, how are theyhardwired?
Take that plus your interest andtie it into a whole government
database of over 600 jobs forpeople who've gone to college.
(32:04):
So it's like.
So cool.
But we were, I don't know aboutyou, but I mean, I would look
the, the, the career survey orwhatever that came out, the
guidance counselors, maybe acouple encyclopedias, but there
was just not the ability backthen to know more than our lens
showed.
So even that you had computerprogramming in high school.
(32:27):
I think that's pretty amazing.
Were you still in the smallertown at that point?
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (32:31):
Yeah, I, I lived there up until I was,
well, like my twenties I guess.
But, yeah, it was a regionalhigh school, so it was a good 25
minute drive So the bus ride wasridiculously long.
But
Caroline (32:43):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (32:43):
yeah, so it was a pretty large
catchment area.
We had a mainframe, this was,must have been 1980 something.
Caroline (32:49):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (32:50):
and so not, they looked like
desktops, but they didn't reallyfunction that way.
Caroline (32:53):
That's cool though.
Yeah, I remember those, theseparate rooms like nobody went
into and they were hot, youknow, so it's just,
Amy Adler, Executive R (32:59):
exactly.
Caroline (32:59):
try to keep'em cold.
So, of all the people thatyou've worked with, is there a
particular success story ortransformation story that really
sticks out that one of yourfavorites for whatever reason.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (33:11):
You know, I have such a roster of
clients and I don't say thatlightly or, or to toot my own
horn.
I am constantly astonished as tohow many people I know by first
name, that sometimes people, Ican't even fathom how they would
get access to them
Caroline (33:28):
Mm-hmm
Amy Adler, Executive Resum (33:28):
It's amazing and people are so
interesting and so incredible,and I recognize that a certain
type of person is gonna be thekind of person that look for a
resume writer, and then acertain person is gonna be
attracted to the way I do thingsversus the way somebody else
does.
So the the end gets verydiminished as you know, the
circles sort of, get tighter.
So, I think a story that ispervasive across a lot of people
(33:50):
without calling any singleperson out is that they don't
know that applying for athousand jobs is a terrible
idea.
Caroline (33:57):
Yes.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (33:58):
and they don't know what to do, but
this, you know, sort of hamsteron a wheel kind of process seems
to feel like work.
And I think the biggesttransformation happens in that
mindset when they start totriangulate on just the things
they wanna do based on thethings that they're interested
or the things that they're goodat, or stuff that they feel like
doing, or stuff they never wantto do again.
They leave that out and then allof a sudden they start to
(34:19):
experience this kind of successthat they didn't know was
possible.
They might not take every jobthey're offered, and I hope they
are selected, but now at leastthey're getting past the
gatekeepers and they're gettingthe kinds of conversations they
ought to be having, And they canmake more personal decisions
about where they wanna go next.
And I think the mental healthcost of doing this over and over
(34:43):
and over and again and notgetting different results is so
painful.
And I get a front row seat toadults calling me and genuinely
crying on the phone becausethey're on their at their wits
end.
They have no idea what to do.
Finally, somebody is justletting them talk and I know
this whole show is about metalking and you asking
questions, but my MO is just tolet people say what they wanna
(35:05):
say
Caroline (35:06):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (35:06):
And meet them where they are and
help them feel like they arebeing well cared for in this
absolutely chaotic sort of jobsearch economy.
Rose really quickly after itcrashed in COVID, then it grew,
and now we're experiencing thefallout.
Caroline (35:23):
Yeah, and it's depersonalized because when
people are only doing the, youknow, online application that
gets to an applicant trackingsystem that maybe rejects them
and they don't ever talk to ahuman and they don't understand
why they're not getting thatresults.
Yes.
To give that space.
And just listen, like, well,what would they love to do next?
How?
How can you help them?
(35:44):
How can you, because also thething, sometimes when people are
pivoting by choice or by force,they feel like they need to keep
doing what they just did.
And you know, as well as I, butthey might not have liked it.
They might, they might have comehome drained.
And even though they could do itand do it really well, that
might not be the version thatthey wanna carry forward.
So I love that.
(36:04):
Giving them the space to just.
Be heard, be seen, be known, bevalued, so that they could
launch into that, to that next,next version.
Now, you also wrote a book.
Tell a little bit about that.
You've got, I mean, like, youare just an amazing example of
doing many, many things well andfinding your sweet spot of how
(36:26):
you wanna serve the world.
But you at one point recentlywrote a book.
What is the book about?
Tell us.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (36:32):
So the book is Courageous Career
Change (36:35):
Fearlessly Earn the Executive Role You Deserve And
it's on Amazon and it came outof the job search podcast,
which, was active.
I was active on that for quitesome time.
And so there's a series ofinstructions on how to do this
part well or how to think aboutthis aspect of job search.
(36:56):
So putting them all together toaddress the one thing that,
since I started resume writinghas been so clear to me.
The biggest, most pervasiveemotion that people feel is
fear.
So if they can get past.
Or own the fact that they'reafraid and that this is
completely chaotic and they'venever been in this situation
before.
They've been loyal employees andall of a sudden, for whatever
(37:17):
reason, they're not in anemployment situation, they have
to figure out what to do.
Being okay with taking the nextstep what I hope is pretty good
advice.
And also the express invitationas I would offer to anybody
listening, I live on the phoneand I'm glad when people call.
I'm glad when people ask mequestions, and I'm glad when I
can be that support structure.
Maybe I am a blend of mymother-in-law and my mom.
(37:39):
Maybe I am a teacher and asocial worker, although I'm not
qualified for either.
But I want to be ready to carefor people wherever they are,
whatever they need, help themnot feel so afraid.
Give them the sense thatsomebody's been doing this a
long time and does it every daycan take up the reins and let
them be their amazing selvesdoing the thing that they do
that I don't do.
(38:00):
And I think nobody loses andeverybody wins because I get to
keep doing the thing I love.
I get that privilege day afterday and they get to return to
the thing that they wanna bedoing.
Caroline (38:10):
Hmm.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (38:10):
So I hope the book captures that
sentiment of like how to get outof the mess, how to get out of
being afraid and take someconcrete action with stuff that
actually works.
Caroline (38:19):
Oh, sounds amazing.
Can't wait to read it.
Now, what about what is next foryou?
What's coming as you envisionwhat you'd love to be doing in
the foreseeable future?
What's on your horizon?
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (38:31):
Well, in the immediate horizon, I'll
be at the National ResumeWriters Association, like I said
with my colleague in October.
And we're going to be presentingtogether on working, helping
clients tell.
Helping them to help you bytelling their stories.
Well, that's, that's the gist ofthe story.
So we get to stand up in frontof all of our colleagues and,
and tell what we've learned andthen of course, learn from them
(38:52):
as well.
Professionally speaking, thearea that I'm expanding into
that I've already dipped a toein over a couple of years is to
build more relationships withrecruiters, because I would love
to break down the barriersbetween resume writers and
recruiters and to help us allunderstand that there doesn't
have to be friction that wecould be on the same side and we
(39:12):
can work to the benefit of therecruiter's clients, which are
companies are respective myclients, their job seekers and
build a structure that when itworks and everybody contributes
appropriately, the job seekerwho's in the middle, they
succeed.
They get what they want.
The company now has an amazingemployee.
The recruiter has a greatreputation and I get to, you
know, hang out in the backgroundwhere I always was and say,
(39:34):
yeah, look what I did.
Caroline (39:35):
That's amazing.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
I, for me, as now career coach,career strategist, if somebody's
like, oh, do you write resumes?
I'm like, no, no, no, I don't.
I can read a resume and I cantell you what I liked and what I
didn't like, but I am just notthe person to be modifying that
resume.
So I'm so glad that now I knowyou as somebody who's like,
(39:59):
okay, you need somebody to beable to get detailed help on a
resume.
Amy, Amy is an amazing personthat you need to talk to, you
need to, to reach out to.
And if you're not sure what youwanna do next, what you love,
who you are, what you do best,all of those things, I'm
helpful.
You know, happy to help on thatside.
Where can listeners connect withyou?
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (40:21):
So I am most often on LinkedIn.
My handle is Amy L.
Adler.
So first name, middle, initiallast name.
My website is fivestrengths.comAnd if you wanna talk to me
about your resume or yourLinkedIn profile, or anything
else that's on your mind.
You can find me atfivestrengths.com/letschat
Caroline (40:42):
Oh, I love it.
I love it.
Well, thank you so much forsharing your story and also
about how your definition ofsuccess has changed.
You absolutely are authenticallysuccessful living in the things
that you love to do and how youhelp and support people, and
it's just been such an honor tohave you on our show.
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (41:00):
Well, it has been an honor to be here.
I'm so grateful.
Caroline (41:03):
Thank you so much.
Amy.
Thank you for bringing suchgrounded wisdom to this
conversation and for showing usthat clarity really is
confidence.
You can connect with Amy atfivestrengths.com or find her on
LinkedIn.
If you've enjoyed this episode,please follow rate and review
the show and share it withsomeone who's ready to write
(41:26):
their next chapter withintention.
Tara (41:28):
Thanks for listening to Your Next Success with Dr.
Caroline Sangal.
Remember, authentic success isyours to define and includes
aligning your career to supportthe life you want.
What if your next opportunity isn't waiting in
another online application, butin how you tell your story.
When your career is on paper,every word counts.
It is not just about listingwhat you've done, it's about
showing who you've become, whatyou deliver, and where you're
(00:25):
going next, because claritycommunicates confidence.
If you've ever wondered how tostand out in a crowded market or
how to translate years ofexperience into one clear,
compelling message, thisconversation is for you.
This is the Your Next Successpodcast, and I'm your host, Dr.
(00:47):
Caroline Sangal.
I'm a life first career coachand strategist on a mission to
normalize questioning yourcareer because I believe each of
us is made on purpose for apurpose only we can fulfill.
The longer we live out ofalignment with who we are, what
we do best, and why we're here,the more we miss out.
(01:08):
And the more the world missesout on what only we can give.
The Your Next Success Podcast iswhere we explore how to build a
career that truly fuels yourlife.
We talk about self-discovery,smart job, search strategies,
professional growth, and you'llhear stories from people who've
navigated big career transitionsthemselves so you can see what
(01:31):
it's really like to make boldchanges and feel inspired to
create your own version ofauthentic success, one that is
aligned, meaningful, and trulyyours.
Today I'm joined by Amy l Adler,president of Five Strengths
Career Transition Experts, afirm specializing in resume
(01:52):
writing for executives and theirteams.
Since launching her business in2009, Amy has worked with
hundreds of leaders to help themtell their stories with clarity
and power.
Amy is one of the mostcredentialed professionals in
her field holding the CertifiedExecutive Resume Master,
Certified Master Resume Writer,and Nationally Certified Online
(02:15):
profile Expert designations.
She's a past TORI award winner,current judge, An MBA graduate
from Boston College and theauthor of Courageous Career
Change, Fearlessly Earn theExecutive Role You Deserve.
Her approach combines strategy,psychology, and storytelling to
help executives earn rolesaligned with both their
(02:37):
expertise and their purpose.
In this episode, Amy and I talkabout how to make job search
more human, how to move beyondgeneric bullet points and into
real stories of impact.
She shares what makes a resumework, how to use data to prove
value, and why the best resumesdon't just describe, they
(02:59):
differentiate.
We also explore the emotionalside of transition, the fear,
the uncertainty, and thesurprising piece that comes when
your story finally fits.
Amy gives practical,compassionate advice for job
seekers navigating change, andher insight will remind you that
(03:20):
career storytelling is notself-promotion, it is self
clarity.
If you've been applying andhearing silence this episode
will help you determine why andwhat to do next.
Welcome, Amy, to Your NextSuccess.
I am so thrilled to have youhere today.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (03:39):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Caroline (03:40):
Absolutely.
So as you know, one of thethings I love talking about is
careers, career transitions, andso we are gonna get to that you
are an amazing resume writer,that you do phenomenal work with
people to really help tell theirstory better.
We'll get to that, but I'd loveto kind of dial it back and
rewind and talk about your storyof how you got to be doing this
(04:04):
wonderful, helpful thing.
So, as you think back to yourchildhood, tell me a little bit
about it.
Like where did you grow up?
What did you like to do?
Amy Adler, Executive Resume W (04:13):
I grew up in the eastern part of
Pennsylvania, just north ofPhiladelphia, in a town that at
that time I think had twotraffic lights and it was a lot
of farmland.
My elementary school, abutted acornfield and a dairy.
It was very quiet and verypeaceful.
When I was in fifth grade,somebody asked me what I wanted
to be when I grow up.
'cause I guess you have to askevery fifth grader what they
(04:34):
want to be when they grow up.
I said, is there this some jobwhere all I could do all day is
just read books because that'show I spend all my free time.
Caroline (04:41):
Oh wow.
Amy Adler, Executive (04:42):
Literally, if I didn't have to go out to
recess and I got to spend, youknow, when there was ever indoor
recess'cause of the weather orsomething, I was like, great, I
could just sit and read a bookand No, don't talk to me.
I loved it and, and people werelike, no, that's not a job.
Ha ha.
That's really funny.
But many years later, my firstcareer and actually my first
academic experience postcollege, was in book publishing.
So I did in fact get a job whereI was reading books all day.
(05:04):
Um, not the really cool, funfiction ones, but I worked in
medical publishing for the mostpart.
Caroline (05:09):
Well, it's still cool though.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (05:11):
It was fun.
If there was a red pencil, I washolding it.
I got to work really closelywith the authors and it was
amazing.
And then, so I did that for along time and then I went to
business school had to figureout kind of what I wanted to do,
this sort of new education.
So I did, and I worked, inproject management at a big
website, with medical contentfor a long time.
(05:32):
And, and then I stopped workingand I was a stay-at-home parent,
to two amazing humans who arenow adults.
Caroline (05:39):
Congratulations, right?
Like that's
Amy Adler, Executive Resum (05:42):
They made it to adulthood.
I feel like we won.
Caroline (05:43):
Right?
I can't keep plants alive, but Ihave two humans that are still
living.
So,
Amy Adler, Executive Resume W (05:48):
I honestly, I think humans are a
little bit easier to keep alive.
But they demand all kinds ofattention that plants just
don't.
So anyway, after giving them allthis attention, I was like, now
that my kids are in school, Iwanna get back to being me and
what am I gonna do?
And I didn't know if I wanted togo back into publishing, I
wanted to use my education and Iwanted to do something that fit
(06:08):
my self perception of being theperson behind the scenes, doing
what it takes to make somebodyelse look really, really good.
And by happenstance, I wound upwriting a resume for a friend of
mine.
I was a great salesperson, not agreat writer.
So she said, I don't know ifthat's really true.
That's what she said.
And she's like, oh, I know youcome from this background.
mostly'cause people conflateediting and writing, which is, I
(06:31):
guess reasonable, but I wasn'treally writing up until that
point, I was just editing.
And I wrote a resume and she gotthis interview and then she got
an offer for the job.
And I felt like, Hey, I didsomething I didn't know was even
a thing and cast about for awhile to figure out how to put
this into action and got a jobwriting resumes, working for
another company, writingresumes.
(06:52):
And that's honestly how mostpeople get into resume writing,
who don't come through HR, whodon't come through some like
talent acquisition or whateverit might be.
I just came up througheditorial, wrote a lot of
resumes those first couple ofyears.
Wrote a lot of resumes, on myfree time, some free time I
didn't have,'cause I still hadlittle kids who were in school
part of the time.
Right?
And a couple years into it, Istarted doing my own.
(07:15):
And that was probably 13, 14years ago now.
Caroline (07:18):
wow.
Amy Adler, Executive Resum (07:18):
I've been running my own show ever
since.
It was hard to part ways withthis person.
I considered a mentor and afriend and we stayed friends and
there was no hard feelings.
I wanted to test my metal.
Caroline (07:28):
There's very few pieces of content that I latched
onto as helpful as far asresumes.
But as I was preparing for ourepisode, I was like, oh my gosh.
Of course, of course Amy workedfor this place because I thought
that place has some really greatcontent and absolutely helpful.
So, but how did you find thatjob?
So you did a resume for afriend, it worked out well, and
(07:50):
then you thought, let's see ifthere's companies and that one
just popped up, or, how did thatwork out?
Amy Adler, Executive Res (07:57):
Pretty much she was advertising to hire
somebody
Caroline (07:59):
Wow.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume W (08:00):
I was perusing, I guess Indeed or
Craigslist or something likethat, trying to figure out what
can I do with the time that Ihave.
Caroline (08:09):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (08:10):
At that point my time was, you
know, bracketed by what my kidswere requiring of me.
'Cause I wanted to be a parentto them too.
And I guessed I gave it a shotand she took a chance she was so
supportive.
And encourage me to getcertified, initially and
encouraged me to go to my firstresume writing conference.
And I guess that must have beenin 2010.
(08:31):
And she also encouraged me in mysort of newness to the industry
to put a submission into theTORI Awards.
Caroline (08:38):
What are the TORI awards?
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (08:40):
So the TORI Awards, the toast of
the resume industry, issponsored by Career Directors
International, which is where Ihave my most of my
certifications through.
And it's I think, one of theoldest, competitions for resume
writers.
And so of course I found thebest one I'd worked on and
submitted it and got allexcited.
And of course I was heartbrokenwhen in my very first time I
(09:03):
didn't even get a nod.
I didn't even get a nomination.
I don't know what I wasthinking.
Of course, I didn't.
But the weird thing is, Iprobably submitted something the
following year or two as well.
I have here, I can tell you2012, I framed my award.
Caroline (09:14):
Oh, that's awesome.
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (09:15):
Yeah.
I submitted for the ExecutiveResume Writing Category, which
is pretty substantive.
There's nine categories usually.
Some number of categories, but,I won first place that year out
of never having won anythingbefore, and I did not know what
to make of that.
I didn't know what to think.
I didn't know how to handle it.
(09:36):
couldn't believe it.
still can't believe it.
It was amazing.
And, I won, I placed again thefollowing year, and then I took
a year or so off and I've beenjudging ever since.
And the thing about judging isknowing how life changing it is
to be nominated is what drivesme because I want people to feel
that magic.
I don't know how it happened forme, I can't even tell you, but
(09:58):
I'm so glad to be part ofpeople's successes now.
I guess it's the same thing.
I guess anybody hearing this nowis gonna know that I'm a judge,
but it's not exactly a secret,but it's also, um, mostly double
blind.
I don't know who I'm reading andthey don't know me particularly
until the whole thing comes out.
Caroline (10:15):
Do they have a conference or a ceremony or you
just find out in the mail, likehow does that work out?
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (10:19):
Let's see.
The first time that I didn't winwas at a conference, so I had to
just like, sit there.
Caroline (10:24):
I would've been like, don't cry, don't cry, don't cry.
Be happy for somebody.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (10:29):
But I'll tell you what happened.
When I won the first time theysend an email out.
But I was busy doing whatever Iwas doing.
And then the president, I don'tknow if she remembers this, the
president of the society, calledme on the phone and I'd been
doing some volunteer work so itwasn't all together weird that
she would've reached out.
I'm like, Hey, what's going on?
Tell me, you know what I can Ido to help you?
And she's like, are you kiddingme?
(10:49):
And I was like, what?
Have you seen your email?
Uh, no, no, no, I haven't.
And yeah, so that's how I foundout.
Caroline (10:56):
Oh, that's cool though.
Amy Adler, Executive Resum (10:57):
They just do it in email.
The conferences for thatparticular society haven't
happened I think for a while.
I think COVID made a mess of alot of things.
The conference that that I'vebeen participating in quite
heavily, is the National ResumeWriters Association, which is
different because it's anonprofit kind of member run
organization.
And my colleague and I presentedtogether last year and we're
(11:17):
presenting together again in amonth.
I like to be with my people,whether it's through this
organization or through theother one.
The idea that there are otherpeople doing this thing that
most people don't even know as abusiness or a service,
Caroline (11:31):
Yes.
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (11:32):
Means we get to hang out for two,
three days once a year andremember why we all do this and
support each other and teacheach other and learn from each
other.
It's awesome.
Caroline (11:43):
How many official resume writers do you think
there are, like in thoseorganizations and all that like.
You know, but everybody needs aresume at some point in their
life.
Everybody realizes that theyneed help.
Not everyone realizes that thereare indeed certified
professionals genuinely lovingdoing this and helping other
(12:06):
people.
But how many is this a, like a10 or is it like hundreds, you
know?
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (12:12):
Yeah, probably hundreds.
So there's a couple ofprofessional societies that
confer certifications, which Ipromise are hard won.
They're not you just write acheck and they send you
something.
It's not like that at all.
It's tests and portfolio reviewsand continuing education and all
the things you have to do.
So I don't know how many thereare, but I can say that the
people who commit to theindustry by putting in the time.
(12:35):
Getting continuing education,whether it's in conferences or
other ways.
'cause there's plenty of ways todo it, going the extra mile to
get certified, paying attentionto what the societies are doing,
these are head and shouldersabove the scam artists.
There's no other way to say itthat exist on social media
platforms that are really givingresume writing a bad name.
Caroline (12:55):
Mm-hmm.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (12:55):
And I think if this is what people
hear all the time, they're goingto understandably tar everyone
with the same brush.
Caroline (13:03):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (13:04):
But I have not met a legitimate
resume writer yet who I thoughtwas out to scam.
Caroline (13:08):
Mm-hmm.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume W (13:09):
I think people care so much about
doing right by the people whoplace their trust in us.
Caroline (13:17):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume W (13:17):
I can't speak for every single
resume writer anywhere but Ialso haven't met a resume writer
worth their salt who is pitchingtheir services left, right, and
center in a, sort of in yourface, kind of obnoxious way.
Everybody talks about what theydo because this is what we do,
it's our job.
Caroline (13:32):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (13:32):
But the ones who are spamming up
your inbox with, hire my personat,
Caroline (13:39):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Res (13:39):
Fiverr or whatever, not to slam Fiverr
I think Fiverr is great.
Just people should check whatthey're getting themselves into
and make sure they're talking toa legitimate person, and that
person's gonna do right by them.
Caroline (13:49):
Mm-hmm.
And so what does the processlook like if somebody wants to
have help writing their resume?
How does that even work?
You know, one of the maybe wrongways to go about it that many
people do is take out the lastversion of their resume and just
try to quickly modify a tiny bitand give the new version.
(14:11):
But if, even if that lastversion hadn't been written.
Amazingly, or from the ground upprofessionally, it could be a
little bit limiting.
So it, let's say it's me and Icome to you and I'm like, Amy,
here's the deal.
I now want to go find a jobworking for somebody else.
I've got all these experiencesthat may or may not align with
(14:32):
what I'm trying to do.
How do you help people sort thatout?
What's the process?
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (14:37):
So there's all kinds of ways to do
this, right?
All kinds of ways.
The one way to do this wrong isto not engage with the
individual.
For me not to ask you as manyquestions as I could think of
about what you've done And howwell you've done it and what you
want to do next to refrain oravoid those hard questions.
(15:00):
Makes the work very easy.
It's easy to rearrange words onthe page.
Caroline (15:04):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resum (15:04):
It's also not resume writing.
I don't know what it isactually.
Maybe that falls somewhere intothe unsavory side
Caroline (15:10):
Hmm.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (15:11):
of kind of what I was talking about
before.
I want, as a resume writer, Iwould want to know every last
thing about you.
certainly enough for me to beable to say, I know what she
knows how to do.
Here's the proof as to how wellshe has done this in all of
these situations over these manyyears.
And I also know where she'sgoing
Caroline (15:32):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume W (15:32):
I can take that body of knowledge
that is her experience and frameit for the next thing that the
future audience understand whyshe's standing in front of them,
They shouldn't know I exist,right?
As a resume writer, I amcompletely invisible.
I should be.
Although I think probably smartrecruiters and hiring teams know
when a resume's beenprofessionally done.
Caroline (15:54):
Well, I could definitely tell when, when ones
were getting my attention when Iwas doing recruiting versus the
ones that just straight didn't.
Right?
the ones that were listing everysingle thing somebody had ever
done.
Without actually relating to thejob at hand or why they wanted
it.
Ones that didn't say, you know,an objective of what they were
(16:16):
actually looking for, if theyhad a varied experience or
hadn't kind of tied it together.
Those ones didn't get my or theones that read like, a CV with
everybody's publications.
And it was a job that didn'trequire publications, so it
just.
Those were my standouts.
But hey, who knows?
Perhaps I helped somebody thatdid have a professionally
(16:38):
written resume.
But as you look at resumes, youknow, the, maybe the first
version somebody gives you whatstands out to you as far as
these are criteria that make agreat one in your eyes, and
these are criteria that are notso great.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume W (16:52):
I would say people hire me because
they know they need help.
So I am judgment free about whatcrosses my desk.
Mostly because maybe once a yearthis isn't true, but the 99
point whatever percent of thetime, rest of the time these
people know that they needsomething different.
They know that they needsomething new.
(17:13):
So I ask for their existingresume, not to point a finger at
them,
Caroline (17:18):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (17:18):
But to help them understand why
there's so much more.
This is, this is almostuniversally the case, why
there's so much more.
To who they are and what theystand for and what they're good
at than their resume.
The typical things that I wouldsee normally are not enough
detail.
Too much of this is what HRthinks my job is, which is plus
(17:39):
or minus the truth, right?
It could be close to it, butit's not always the truth.
And no objective measurement ofhow well they did that thing.
So a salesperson might talkabout number of outreaches per
day, and these might be acrossvarious modalities.
it's phone calls, or maybe it'smeeting people face to face or
whatever it's going to be, oremails.
(18:00):
Then what kind of presentationsare they giving?
What kind of conversions arethey, uh, yielding?
And these are all things thatcan be measured.
So not every job in every casehas something that can be
measured, but probably 80 to 85%of jobs have stuff that can be
measured.
One notable thing that I learnedvery on isn't very measurable is
audits.
Audits are either you pass oryou pass.
Caroline (18:20):
Right, right.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (18:21):
Of course if you don't pass, you
can have remediations and thatkind of a thing, but it's, it's
on or off, yes or no.
Whereas most jobs are not quitethat black and white, and they
have that measure output oryield or deliverables or
dollars, and these areincontrovertible facts the
person has delivered this manysales dollars or, hired this
(18:42):
many people, whatever it mightbe.
So the person who's the end userof this resume, the hiring team
can say that they don't wantsomebody who's sold this much
stuff or hired this many people,but they can't say what that
person did or the, the, theinformation that that person's
report reporting about what theydid.
They can't say that's wrong orthat's false information.
(19:02):
They can just make an evaluationas to whether they want that
thing or not.
Caroline (19:05):
Yeah.
When people put in a bulletpoint what they were supposed to
do, but not actually talkingabout what they actually did in
some sort of quantifiable way,it's hard, right?
Because everybody may have beensupposed to with uphold safety
standards, right?
But if they helped develop fivenew SOPs for safety or
something, that's a reallyhelpful.
(19:27):
Quantification as far as likeif, if anybody looks at their
resume and you first pull yourjob description and you copy a
lot of that, not the way to go,but maybe tell me about a time
when you had to do thatresponsibility.
How, well, how much, how many,all of those things.
I, I agree, agree a hundredpercent with that.
What are some other tips thatyou have as far as like how
(19:51):
somebody can, I mean, obviouslyhow somebody can get a great
resume would be to work with aprofessional such as yourself.
And in the world of AI, when somany people now think that
whether they have the freeversion of ChatGPT or they pay
20 bucks a month, they think,ah, this is gonna be just fine.
(20:12):
Help them understand what'slimiting in that respect, and
how a real professional canelevate that.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (20:22):
If we start from the premise, I'm
so glad you asked this question.
If we start from the premisethat every person is inherently
interesting, thoughtful, andprobably good at their job in
the unique, unique way, thatthey are good at their job.
So I'm good at my job in acertain way.
You're good at your job in acertain way, and other people
who do similar things to us aregood at their jobs their own
way.
(20:42):
And just because we show up ourway, doesn't mean everybody else
will show up our way.
So if we, if we own that sharethat kind of a story, the resume
can be about no other person theindividual for whom it's
written.
And it's of course, like I said,my job to learn as much as
possible about that person so Ican put on their thoughts and
(21:03):
their perceptions and their winsand, and the way they feel about
stuff and, and be them on paperso they can, they can own this
document that is uniquely aboutthem.
ChatGPT is not quite asinsightful.
I was speaking with a hiringmanager some time ago who I saw
this post on LinkedIn and I hadto reach out'cause it was, it
was the craziest story that shewas hiring for a writer, a
(21:26):
marketing job.
So was writing involved, and wasgetting identical cover letters
for the role from variouspeople.
And apparently it's just athing.
You take that job posting, throwit into some large language
model and you get something spitout.
But anyone else who does, that'sgonna get the same thing because
the ChatGPT or what have you,doesn't know any more about you.
(21:48):
At that point it knows nothingabout you but doesn't know any
more than what you tell it.
So of course it's gonna givejust what it can interpolate
from all the data that's outthere, which is the same access
that everybody else has.
So nothing sounds unique.
And the same is true.
I imagine if somebody threw ajob posting and their says,
write me a resume, except now weare in a world of hurt because
the language model will startpulling things that might not be
(22:09):
true, or guessing or makingstuff up, they call
hallucinating, right?
Caroline (22:13):
yes.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (22:14):
it might say, oh, speaks French
fluently.
And you're like, I don't speakFrench.
I don't understand where thiscame from.
And then you get called on thatin your interview or in the
first round of of conversations.
Then you have to come clean thatyou don't in fact speak French,
even though your resume says so.
So this has this enormous impactof making it really hard for the
job seekers because they'retrying to do something on the
(22:36):
quick and trying to save time orwhatever, but they look silly
and, and it's ineffective forthem and the whole process gets
gummed up because there's thesedozens of AI driven resumes and
cover letters that are soperfect that they can't possibly
be real.
And then, when the hiring teamtries to call the people behind
these documents to corroborateall this data, it's just not
(22:58):
there.
So really nobody wins.
I mean, zero people are winningwhen ChatGPT is offered free
reign.
Caroline (23:05):
Right.
That's amazing that the job asthe example was marketing
related, where writing was a keycomponent.
And you'd think those peoplehave amazing skills, education,
knowledge, experience, but for aquick shortcut to then have
their cover letters be nearlythe same as other people's,
(23:26):
like, oh my goodness.
How terrifying is that, oh.
so now an interesting thing thatI thought was Imagine what your
life would be like if yourcareer aligned with who you are,
what you do best, and actuallyfueled the life you want.
At Next Success, we support allages and stages through career
(23:48):
transitions from studentsexploring majors or careers to
job seekers actively searchingor re-imagining their next move
to professionals committed toself-awareness and leadership
growth.
Stay connected and explorewhat's possible at
nextsuccesscareers.com andfollow@nextsuccessmethod on
LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram,and Facebook.
(24:11):
also kind of cool about yourstory in your career is after a
while of having, advanceddegrees doing all this work, you
then went back to school.
Tell us about that.
Like what kind of prompted thatand.
How does, I think it's amazing.
I think it's an amazingskillset, but not a well outed
(24:32):
in a great way.
But you are more than just aresume person.
You also have amazing diversityof skills and assets and in a
wonderful computer world, I whowouldn't want to have that.
So, but
Amy Adler, Executive Res (24:47):
you're so kind.
Caroline (24:48):
yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (24:48):
But you're right.
Yes, I did do this.
So I have a graduate work, but Ialways also, when I was in fifth
grade, thought the coolest thingwas computers were just becoming
available to the point wherethey could be in our classrooms
occasionally.
And I thought this was the mostfascinating thing ever.
And I didn't know anything abouthow to program.
I knew nothing about how theyworked, but I thought this was
(25:10):
like, I saw something reallyinteresting.
But of course I was eased intolanguages.
So, of course English,'causethis is what I do every day.
But also Spanish and then incollege, I studied Russian for a
little while.
Caroline (25:24):
Oh wow.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (25:24):
it was just like this thing that I
knew how to do.
Like I, I, I loved it.
but for whatever reason, um.
I chose to do computer scienceas a science class in, in high
school, and no one ever said,even then, this is language.
You were learning a language.
And I think if I had made thatconnection, would've, I would've
gone to college for computerprogramming.
But people were like, you haveto study language, but language
(25:46):
and computer science, justsomehow, like there was the Venn
diagram didn't overlap.
So I always had this idea that Iwanted to learn and, I started
at the community college, justbefore actually, right as COVID
hit.
Our first semester was, cutshort and we had to do
everything virtually.
I guess it was in March orsomething.
and I, I luckily didn't have torepeat, you know, freshman.
Caroline (26:06):
Oh, thank God.
Yeah, exactly.
That's a great thing aboutcollege credit.
They stay forever, which is sogood.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (26:13):
But I was like, well, if you want me
to, I will.
I got to do a full associate ofscience and computer science
just'cause I wanted to just'cause I wanted to learn.
And I have used that work.
I don't do it professionally,but in the way that I do what I
do with my resume writingclients is heavily based on this
sort of technology backbone thatI never would've been able to do
(26:35):
without having had thatexperience.
So I don't regret it for asecond.
It was more like a hobby than acareer path.
I am, I'm so glad I did'cause Iget to use it in ways that I
think my colleagues probablydon't.
Caroline (26:48):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume W (26:48):
I found ways to simplify my life.
I like the operations aspect ofit.
Caroline (26:52):
Oh, that's nice.
So what are, what are some waysthat you simplify your life?
Do tell, do tell.
What are these backgroundprocesses?
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (27:00):
Okay, so here's one.
I use the Google Workspaceecosystem, for reasons it don't
matter here, but I am heavilyinvested in this now.
I pay my monthly fee and I getall this access to stuff.
I wanted to be able to, downloadmy Google calendar to a
spreadsheet so I had copies ofeverything and then I could do
something with the data thatcame out of that.
(27:21):
So every night I have Aron jobthat runs and I download the
days prior, appointments, andthey get all sorted into
different types, and then I cankeep track of who I talked to,
what the purpose of the call wasother stuff like, you know,
dentist appointments and stuffthat, that gets filtered into,
you know, other mess of things.
And I have an ongoingspreadsheet that captures
everything and I don't have todo it by hand.
Caroline (27:42):
Oh, that's so amazing.
Oh, that's so amazing.
And plus even I guess, fortrying to figure out what was
work time versus not work time,you know?
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive R (27:51):
Goodness if I did that
Caroline (27:53):
How has your definition of what you thought
success.
Was like changed throughout theebbs and flows of your career,
like when you were little, whatdid you think it was to be
successful?
What were examples of that?
And then as you kind of grewand, and had a family, and even
now, like how is this definitionchanging for you over time?
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (28:14):
So when I was that 11-year-old kid,
This was in the eighties, andGod bless the women who came
before us and set up a situationor an environment or culture in
which they could.
They told us young girls that wecould do anything.
I don't know if that was still ahundred percent true when I was
a young kid in the eighties.
I think, as I said, I wasn'tushered into computer science
(28:37):
even though I had absolutelyperfect grades computer
programming.
I don't know.
I don't know whether, I justdidn't think of it or people
didn't tell me or whatever, butwhen we were all children, the
the standard answers to what doyou wanna be when you grow up?
Were mostly like, you know,nurse, teacher, whatever.
Like, we didn't know.
And I think because our parentsdidn't know.
So for me to be able to do whatI do like this every single day
(29:00):
and, and be exactly what.
In the chair that I think I wasmeant to be in professionally.
And then to have the privilege,the absolute privilege of
telling my daughters who are nowyoung adults, that they
literally can do anything
Caroline (29:13):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (29:13):
and mean it.
Because there has been enoughtime for generational I don't
know, whatever it is, the gears,the works have moved forward
sufficiently that there was noquestion that they could do
anything they wanted.
I actually once asked my olderone who was a, a science major
in college, did you ever thinklike, did anyone ever tell you
(29:34):
you couldn't do this?
And she looked at me like I hadnine heads.
She's like, why would anybodytell me that?
And I was like, this is thedefinition of success.
This is the definition ofsuccess in which we can do
whatever we want, however wewant.
I actually also asked her, thisis, this is embarrassing in a
way, but also emblematic, Ithink of what's possible.
So I've always worked at home,because I can work wherever I
(29:55):
want and I love my desktop and Idon't wanna, I don't wanna move
it
Caroline (29:58):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (29:59):
And I once said to her, do you think
I have a job?
And again, she looked at me likeI had nine heads.
She's like, of course you have ajob as if to say like, did you
hit your head because did youjust not come from your office
where you do work things allday?
But I wanted to see what herperception was and to know that
whatever choices either of themmake, on their terms
Caroline (30:20):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (30:20):
and they get to be as successful as
they decide they want to be withnobody holding them back.
To me that's miraculous.
And this is, you know, ageneration and a half, from mom
who was a social worker, mymother-in-law who was a teacher.
Like these were our role models,but things have really changed.
Caroline (30:35):
Yeah, they have, that's one of the components I
like to try to help people whenthey're trying to figure out
what they wanna do with theircareer first.
I'm like, okay, well we have totalk about what would you love
to do with your life first, andthen how can your career fuel
that?
And so I kind of go througheight different factors and
family is one of them.
So the family you came fromshapes a lot about what you
think is even possible fromwork, what you know is
(30:58):
available, and then the familyas it evolves, the family that
you end up having.
That shapes a lot because I toowas a stay at home mom for a
while.
I needed to drop off and pick upmy kids, right?
And then when I came back, Ineeded to have something that
fit into that instead ofdetracted from it.
So, but a lot of times peopledon't know and they don't
understand what else is even outthere.
(31:21):
If it was, I mean, my mom was anurse, my dad was a teacher,
principal, superintendent.
How did I get into science?
I don't know.
He told me to do it.
Girl, you should.
I don't think teaching's gonnasupport the lifestyle.
I think you wanna be accustomedto.
So you should do something withmath and science related items.
Now it's also so cool becausethere are so many interconnected
(31:44):
databases to suggest to people,right?
So you can look at the, yourinterests and your interest
profile, and that will show up abunch of jobs that align with
your interests.
I have an assessment that peoplecan look at their natural
abilities, how are theyhardwired?
Take that plus your interest andtie it into a whole government
database of over 600 jobs forpeople who've gone to college.
(32:04):
So it's like.
So cool.
But we were, I don't know aboutyou, but I mean, I would look
the, the, the career survey orwhatever that came out, the
guidance counselors, maybe acouple encyclopedias, but there
was just not the ability backthen to know more than our lens
showed.
So even that you had computerprogramming in high school.
(32:27):
I think that's pretty amazing.
Were you still in the smallertown at that point?
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (32:31):
Yeah, I, I lived there up until I was,
well, like my twenties I guess.
But, yeah, it was a regionalhigh school, so it was a good 25
minute drive So the bus ride wasridiculously long.
But
Caroline (32:43):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (32:43):
yeah, so it was a pretty large
catchment area.
We had a mainframe, this was,must have been 1980 something.
Caroline (32:49):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (32:50):
and so not, they looked like
desktops, but they didn't reallyfunction that way.
Caroline (32:53):
That's cool though.
Yeah, I remember those, theseparate rooms like nobody went
into and they were hot, youknow, so it's just,
Amy Adler, Executive R (32:59):
exactly.
Caroline (32:59):
try to keep'em cold.
So, of all the people thatyou've worked with, is there a
particular success story ortransformation story that really
sticks out that one of yourfavorites for whatever reason.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (33:11):
You know, I have such a roster of
clients and I don't say thatlightly or, or to toot my own
horn.
I am constantly astonished as tohow many people I know by first
name, that sometimes people, Ican't even fathom how they would
get access to them
Caroline (33:28):
Mm-hmm
Amy Adler, Executive Resum (33:28):
It's amazing and people are so
interesting and so incredible,and I recognize that a certain
type of person is gonna be thekind of person that look for a
resume writer, and then acertain person is gonna be
attracted to the way I do thingsversus the way somebody else
does.
So the the end gets verydiminished as you know, the
circles sort of, get tighter.
So, I think a story that ispervasive across a lot of people
(33:50):
without calling any singleperson out is that they don't
know that applying for athousand jobs is a terrible
idea.
Caroline (33:57):
Yes.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (33:58):
and they don't know what to do, but
this, you know, sort of hamsteron a wheel kind of process seems
to feel like work.
And I think the biggesttransformation happens in that
mindset when they start totriangulate on just the things
they wanna do based on thethings that they're interested
or the things that they're goodat, or stuff that they feel like
doing, or stuff they never wantto do again.
They leave that out and then allof a sudden they start to
(34:19):
experience this kind of successthat they didn't know was
possible.
They might not take every jobthey're offered, and I hope they
are selected, but now at leastthey're getting past the
gatekeepers and they're gettingthe kinds of conversations they
ought to be having, And they canmake more personal decisions
about where they wanna go next.
And I think the mental healthcost of doing this over and over
(34:43):
and over and again and notgetting different results is so
painful.
And I get a front row seat toadults calling me and genuinely
crying on the phone becausethey're on their at their wits
end.
They have no idea what to do.
Finally, somebody is justletting them talk and I know
this whole show is about metalking and you asking
questions, but my MO is just tolet people say what they wanna
(35:05):
say
Caroline (35:06):
Yeah.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (35:06):
And meet them where they are and
help them feel like they arebeing well cared for in this
absolutely chaotic sort of jobsearch economy.
Rose really quickly after itcrashed in COVID, then it grew,
and now we're experiencing thefallout.
Caroline (35:23):
Yeah, and it's depersonalized because when
people are only doing the, youknow, online application that
gets to an applicant trackingsystem that maybe rejects them
and they don't ever talk to ahuman and they don't understand
why they're not getting thatresults.
Yes.
To give that space.
And just listen, like, well,what would they love to do next?
How?
How can you help them?
(35:44):
How can you, because also thething, sometimes when people are
pivoting by choice or by force,they feel like they need to keep
doing what they just did.
And you know, as well as I, butthey might not have liked it.
They might, they might have comehome drained.
And even though they could do itand do it really well, that
might not be the version thatthey wanna carry forward.
So I love that.
(36:04):
Giving them the space to just.
Be heard, be seen, be known, bevalued, so that they could
launch into that, to that next,next version.
Now, you also wrote a book.
Tell a little bit about that.
You've got, I mean, like, youare just an amazing example of
doing many, many things well andfinding your sweet spot of how
(36:26):
you wanna serve the world.
But you at one point recentlywrote a book.
What is the book about?
Tell us.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (36:32):
So the book is Courageous Career
Change (36:35):
Fearlessly Earn the Executive Role You Deserve And
it's on Amazon and it came outof the job search podcast,
which, was active.
I was active on that for quitesome time.
And so there's a series ofinstructions on how to do this
part well or how to think aboutthis aspect of job search.
(36:56):
So putting them all together toaddress the one thing that,
since I started resume writinghas been so clear to me.
The biggest, most pervasiveemotion that people feel is
fear.
So if they can get past.
Or own the fact that they'reafraid and that this is
completely chaotic and they'venever been in this situation
before.
They've been loyal employees andall of a sudden, for whatever
(37:17):
reason, they're not in anemployment situation, they have
to figure out what to do.
Being okay with taking the nextstep what I hope is pretty good
advice.
And also the express invitationas I would offer to anybody
listening, I live on the phoneand I'm glad when people call.
I'm glad when people ask mequestions, and I'm glad when I
can be that support structure.
Maybe I am a blend of mymother-in-law and my mom.
(37:39):
Maybe I am a teacher and asocial worker, although I'm not
qualified for either.
But I want to be ready to carefor people wherever they are,
whatever they need, help themnot feel so afraid.
Give them the sense thatsomebody's been doing this a
long time and does it every daycan take up the reins and let
them be their amazing selvesdoing the thing that they do
that I don't do.
(38:00):
And I think nobody loses andeverybody wins because I get to
keep doing the thing I love.
I get that privilege day afterday and they get to return to
the thing that they wanna bedoing.
Caroline (38:10):
Hmm.
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (38:10):
So I hope the book captures that
sentiment of like how to get outof the mess, how to get out of
being afraid and take someconcrete action with stuff that
actually works.
Caroline (38:19):
Oh, sounds amazing.
Can't wait to read it.
Now, what about what is next foryou?
What's coming as you envisionwhat you'd love to be doing in
the foreseeable future?
What's on your horizon?
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (38:31):
Well, in the immediate horizon, I'll
be at the National ResumeWriters Association, like I said
with my colleague in October.
And we're going to be presentingtogether on working, helping
clients tell.
Helping them to help you bytelling their stories.
Well, that's, that's the gist ofthe story.
So we get to stand up in frontof all of our colleagues and,
and tell what we've learned andthen of course, learn from them
(38:52):
as well.
Professionally speaking, thearea that I'm expanding into
that I've already dipped a toein over a couple of years is to
build more relationships withrecruiters, because I would love
to break down the barriersbetween resume writers and
recruiters and to help us allunderstand that there doesn't
have to be friction that wecould be on the same side and we
(39:12):
can work to the benefit of therecruiter's clients, which are
companies are respective myclients, their job seekers and
build a structure that when itworks and everybody contributes
appropriately, the job seekerwho's in the middle, they
succeed.
They get what they want.
The company now has an amazingemployee.
The recruiter has a greatreputation and I get to, you
know, hang out in the backgroundwhere I always was and say,
(39:34):
yeah, look what I did.
Caroline (39:35):
That's amazing.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
I, for me, as now career coach,career strategist, if somebody's
like, oh, do you write resumes?
I'm like, no, no, no, I don't.
I can read a resume and I cantell you what I liked and what I
didn't like, but I am just notthe person to be modifying that
resume.
So I'm so glad that now I knowyou as somebody who's like,
(39:59):
okay, you need somebody to beable to get detailed help on a
resume.
Amy, Amy is an amazing personthat you need to talk to, you
need to, to reach out to.
And if you're not sure what youwanna do next, what you love,
who you are, what you do best,all of those things, I'm
helpful.
You know, happy to help on thatside.
Where can listeners connect withyou?
Amy Adler, Executive Resume (40:21):
So I am most often on LinkedIn.
My handle is Amy L.
Adler.
So first name, middle, initiallast name.
My website is fivestrengths.comAnd if you wanna talk to me
about your resume or yourLinkedIn profile, or anything
else that's on your mind.
You can find me atfivestrengths.com/letschat
Caroline (40:42):
Oh, I love it.
I love it.
Well, thank you so much forsharing your story and also
about how your definition ofsuccess has changed.
You absolutely are authenticallysuccessful living in the things
that you love to do and how youhelp and support people, and
it's just been such an honor tohave you on our show.
Amy Adler, Executive Resu (41:00):
Well, it has been an honor to be here.
I'm so grateful.
Caroline (41:03):
Thank you so much.
Amy.
Thank you for bringing suchgrounded wisdom to this
conversation and for showing usthat clarity really is
confidence.
You can connect with Amy atfivestrengths.com or find her on
LinkedIn.
If you've enjoyed this episode,please follow rate and review
the show and share it withsomeone who's ready to write
(41:26):
their next chapter withintention.
Tara (41:28):
Thanks for listening to Your Next Success with Dr.
Caroline Sangal.
Remember, authentic success isyours to define and includes
aligning your career to supportthe life you want.
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