August 27, 2025 • 54 mins
What do you do when your career has spanned the globe, your leadership has made a measurable impact, and you still feel called to something more?
In this episode of Your Next Success, Dr. Caroline Sangal talks with Dr. Lucinda Jackson—a global executive, scientist, author, and speaker—about the choices, turning points, and clarity that shaped her remarkable career and powerful next chapter.
Lucinda has worked in more than 30 countries for four Fortune 500 companies, led international environmental and safety teams, and served as General Manager at Chevron. In her next act, she joined the Peace Corps, launched LJ Ventures, and authored two compelling memoirs:
- Just a Girl: Growing Up Female and Ambitious
- Project Escape: Lessons for an Unscripted Life
This conversation explores what it means to evolve with intention, stay open to reinvention, and create a life of meaning—no matter what stage you're in.
In this episode, we explore:
- How Lucinda navigated leadership in industries where few women were present
- The mindset that guided her most meaningful transitions
- Her experience moving from global executive to author and advisor
- How writing helped her reflect, realign, and reimagine what’s possible
- Encouragement and clarity for anyone ready to build what comes next
🔗 Resources & Links:
📚 Learn more about Lucinda and her books: www.lucindajackson.com and connect with her on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucinda-jackson/
Subscribe to Your Next Success so you never miss an episode.
Watch full video episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@NextSuccessMethod/
Learn more about Next Success www.nextsuccesscareers.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
What happens when your careerreflects years of leadership,
impact, and growth and you beginto sense it's time for something
more?
More freedom, more alignment,more space to create from who
you are now.
Today's guest followed that.
She took everything she'd builtand turned it into something
(00:24):
even more expansive, expressive,and deeply fulfilling.
Caroline (00:29):
This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I'm your
host, Dr.
Caroline Sangal.
I'm a life first career coachand strategist on a mission to
normalize questioning yourcareer because I believe each of
us is made on purpose for apurpose only we can fulfill.
The longer we live out ofalignment with who we are, what
(00:51):
we do best, and why we're here,the more we miss out.
And the more the world missesout on what only we can give.
The Your Next Success Podcast iswhere we explore how to build a
career that truly fuels yourlife.
We talk about self-discovery,smart job search strategies,
(01:11):
professional growth, and you'llhear stories from people who've
navigated big career transitionsthemselves so you can see what
it's really like to make boldchanges and feel inspired to
create your own version ofauthentic success, one that is
aligned, meaningful, and trulyyours.
(01:34):
Welcome to Your Next Success,the podcast where we talk about
the real life moments thatinvite us to grow and what it
looks like to create a nextchapter that reflects who you
are now.
today's guest brings depthresilience and a remarkable
ability to keep moving forwardthrough every season of life and
(01:56):
leadership.
Dr.
Lucinda Jackson began her careerduring a time when few women
were working in scientificfields.
What she had was a willingnessto try new things, to stay open
and to pursue opportunities thatled her forward.
She earned a PhD and her winningmindset took her around the
(02:19):
world.
She worked in more than 30countries for four Fortune 500
companies.
Eventually became a globalexecutive, serving as a general
manager of health, environmentand safety, leading
international teams in shapingenergy and sustainability
practices on a global scale.
When it was time for a newrhythm, Lucinda stepped into a
(02:41):
powerful and purpose-driven nextact.
She joined the Peace Corps.
She founded LJ Ventures and shebecame a speaker, consultant and
author of two inspiring memoirs: Just A Girl (02:51):
Growing Up, Female
and Ambitious, and ProjectEscape: Lessons for an
Unscripted Life.
In this episode, you'll hear howLucinda navigated science and
leadership in systems thatweren't designed with her in
mind.
What guided her transitions fromcorporate leadership into
(03:14):
writing, service, and speaking.
How she created a fulfillingnext act, rooted in
contribution, creativity, andpeace.
Insights for anyone exploringwhat their next chapter could
look like.
Encouragement to build forwardwith wisdom, clarity, and
purpose.
This conversation is full ofinsight for anyone in a moment
(03:38):
of transition, reflection, orexpansion.
Let's listen in on myconversation with Dr.
Lucinda Jackson.
Caroline (03:49):
Welcome Lucinda to Your Next Success.
I am so excited to have you onour show today.
Lucinda (03:58):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you so much.
It's great to be here.
Caroline (04:02):
What I'd like to do is help people understand a bit
about careers and transitionsand your career bio reads
amazingly, I'd love to kind ofget into some of the stories
behind the stories.
Can you take us back to thebeginning, like during your
childhood, did you have acertain career in mind or how
(04:24):
you thought your life was gonnago?
Lucinda (04:27):
Well, I loved being outdoors and I loved bugs and
plants, and I used to put my,jackknife and my magnifying
glass in my pocket and go outand study'em and I love doing
that.
my mom would be calling me, youknow, late'cause I was out doing
that.
So I thought about biology.
(04:49):
But, they didn't have a biologyclass in my high school.
Now that it's amazing what theyhave, but they didn't have
anything then.
So I really had no idea and thenpeople were telling me like my
dad, that girls don't need to goto college.
So I really wasn't, I decided Iwasn't gonna go to college.
So that's kind of how itstarted.
Caroline (05:09):
So did your dad then assume that you were just made
for having a family and being ahomemaker, or
Lucinda (05:20):
Oh,
Caroline (05:20):
of
Lucinda (05:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
He told me that what I reallyneeded to do was to learn how to
cook because that's what menwant in a woman.
Caroline (05:28):
Ugh.
Lucinda (05:29):
so I didn't apply any place for college, but then at
the last minute, I didn't haveanything to do.
I couldn't get a job right as17-year-old.
And, so I applied to onecollege.
Fortunately, I got in.
And, looking back, I saw my,some of my original papers
recently and I'd actually putdown Biology as my major, which
(05:51):
crazy'cause I didn't knowanything about It.
But I, that didn't happen.
I ended up majoring in first indance and then I majored in
economics and then French and,and then I got really worried
because, I really wanted to earnmy own money, and that'll be a
(06:13):
theme throughout this talk isthat, you know, and one of my
key tips for young people is tosave money and it'll make your
life so much easier.
So I wanted to earn my own moneyand I had grown up with my
father owning all the pursestrings.
(06:34):
So, my mom, when they gotdivorced, when I went off to
college, she had nothing and noskills.
And I thought, that's nevergonna happen to me.
So I was here, I was a, by thistime, a French major, and
realizing what kind of job couldI get with that and how am I
gonna earn my keep?
So I switched schools.
(06:56):
It was a liberal arts collegeand I switched schools to go to
a school that had agriculturalclasses and things.
I thought, I'll major, I likebiology, so maybe I'll major in
agriculture'cause I couldprobably get a job that way.
So that's kind of how itstarted.
Caroline (07:13):
How did you, even know about, like, so if you were
already in one school andimmersed in that environment and
your family has other kind ofviews, who did you ask or who
was a resource?
Like how did you learn even thatmaybe a different school could
be an option or that you couldeven transfer schools
Lucinda (07:34):
It was really difficult because, I certainly had no
vision.
I hadn't thought about my corevalues.
I was just totally operating bythe seat of my pants.
But I did meet a man, his namewas Dr.
Bert Brehm and he taught plantbiology at the college where I
was going in Oregon.
And he was just a wonderful manand he took me and the students
(07:56):
out on a lot of field trips andI sort of fell in love with
plants.
and I started thinking, well,what could I do with plants to
make money?
And then I thought, well,agriculture, you know, that's,
Caroline (08:06):
oh, nice.
Lucinda (08:07):
as sophisticated as it was.
And I really encourage youngpeople today I do mentoring for
young, especially STEM studentsand encourage them to really
think about, you know, a visionand their core values, which is
something I just, that's why Ikind of messed around for a
(08:29):
while.
However, I also encourage themthat you don't have to know
Caroline (08:34):
Yeah.
Lucinda (08:34):
away and don't feel bad if you don't.
And I tell'em the story aboutFrench and dance and they're
like, really?
They thought they had to havetheir major figured out, you
know, when they're 14 orsomething.
And there's more pressure forthat now.
And I tell'em that all thosethings I did, really helped my
life.
I mean, I still dance.
I love to dance.
(08:54):
I don't speak French, but Istudied Spanish.
I switched.
Caroline (08:57):
Yeah.
Lucinda (08:58):
So it's not an economics.
Heck yeah.
That was real.
It's been really helpful and,you know, being in business, so,
it's just not thatstraightforward.
You know, I have a, a picture ofmy career that goes kind of like
this and, and.
Caroline (09:13):
Everybody's, I feel like we think we have this
thought that careers are linearor stepwise and that that's how
it goes, and everybody just hasthis beautiful, wonderful
journey.
And then, we get in there andrealize it's a bit of a mess.
I also like to encourage peopleto find someone a few months,
(09:35):
years, decades ahead of them andjust start having conversations
because although I couldn'tmaybe articulate what I thought
I wanted to do,'cause I wasstill stuck in what I thought I
should do, but there areelements that if I could have
had a conversation, I'd be like,can you help me understand?
How can
Lucinda (09:54):
Right.
Caroline (09:55):
talk to people, and I really like talking about
science, but I might not be theone that needs to stand by the
hood and do the science, butlike, how can I do that?
Like
Lucinda (10:06):
Yeah.
Caroline (10:06):
a,
Lucinda (10:07):
Yeah.
Caroline (10:08):
ahead of time could have said, oh, maybe this or
maybe that.
Or even I've talked to somechemists who became professors
at universities, and then theyget into it for a while and they
kind of wanna maybe do somethingelse and then they feel like
they're stuck, but yet they'vedone analytical instrumentation.
(10:28):
And I was like, have you thoughtabout every single analytical
instrumentation manufacturer haschemists who can teach others
about the instrument?
And have been probably four,four different people in the
last five years or so that I'vehelped transfer from professor
(10:49):
to analytical instrumentationmanufacturer.
Lucinda (10:52):
Caroline, it sounds like you didn't have a lot of
guidance either.
I mean, there just weren'tthings like your business
available to go talk to somebodyor to help have somebody help
you sort out like what, what youwanna do for one thing, and then
how you go about getting it.
I mean, nobody suggestedagriculture to me.
(11:12):
I just came up with it.
Like, oh, I mean, and then Ifound an Ag College, UC Davis, I
transferred there because theydo agriculture.
Right?
It wasn't, it was that, that,informal.
But it would've been reallygreat to, you know, have the
kind of thought process thatpeople have now.
I mean, I have that now formyself.
I have a vision, done my corevalues, and it helps guide me,
(11:35):
constantly on my continuedcareer path today.
So.
Caroline (11:39):
Yes.
So you went, you switched yourmajor to agriculture, and then
what happened?
Lucinda (11:46):
Then I studied, I took a lot of chemistry classes and I
got interested in agriculturalchemicals and, then I tried to
get a job and I could not get ajob as a bachelor's degree
person and especially as afemale.
In that business in thiswould've been 19 something, 74,
(12:12):
something like that, centuriesago.
And, so then I stayed and got amaster's degree because the
school was willing to do it.
And so I did that and I did geta professor who knew a lot
about, he worked with a lot ofcompanies so he wasn't just a
Ivy Tower academic and throughhim, I met a lot of people in
(12:35):
the chemical business and theywere just starting to hire
women.
The Equal Opportunity Act hadbeen passed, and the reason I
got hired was, and nobody let meforget that the reason that I
was hired was because theyneeded to fill some quotas of
women.
But yeah, it was a plus that Igot a job, but it was a negative
(12:58):
that people said, oh, you, youonly got hired.
You know why you're here.
Caroline (13:02):
You only got it because of this identity.
Lucinda (13:05):
Yeah.
It's not'cause you're smart.
Caroline (13:07):
identity politics why can't we just, just like, let's
widen the whole pool to as manypeople as possible
Lucinda (13:13):
Yeah, of course.
Caroline (13:14):
get'em in the process.
Lucinda (13:16):
Get the best one.
Caroline (13:17):
And let's see.
And then I had one company tellme, oh, we don't need a
diversity policy because you'vehelped us with that and I'm
like, well, let me be real clearhere.
I'm looking at everyone I'mcasting a wide net.
It just so happens that you'veseen time and time again that
(13:38):
the people who have been thebest options for you have been
diverse candidates.
Lucinda (13:43):
Yeah.
Caroline (13:43):
Okay, so you start working at, what kind of a
company?
Lucinda (13:48):
Chemical company that They did research and marketing
and everything on pesticides.
So I was really interested inenvironmental things.
So, I did a lot of fieldresearch.
You know, looking at the impactsof chemicals on the environment,
and that was a lot of interestto me.
You know, where they go in thesoil, you know, where do they
(14:09):
get dissipated into the air?
Do the plants take them up?
You know, what happens to them?
So I worked for this companyabout a year, and then this
thing happened that I had noidea about, which is that they,
the chemical business wasstarting to do a lot of mergers,
(14:29):
and sales.
So my company got sold tosomebody else and I got laid off
and I was like.
Is this even legal?
I mean, I've never heard ofbeing laid off,
Caroline (14:39):
Yeah.
Lucinda (14:40):
But I was only 23 or something like that.
And, so I quickly thought, youknow, I better find something
else.
So they, they gave me anotherjob, but it was in sales, so it
wasn't in my field of researchor more, chemically oriented.
It was in sales of pesticides,which again, like I tell people,
(15:04):
it wasn't the worst thing tohappen because I learned how to
make my point, right?
I learned how to go up, knock ona farmer's door and, and
describe a product to them and,and make a sale.
And a lot of scientists do notknow how to do that.
And I've used it constantly toget money for research projects
(15:24):
to get my employees promoted to,bring in some new technology.
I've learned how to sell myprojects.
And so that experience, eventhough at the time I felt like
this is, this is, you know, Iwent to college for this and, it
turned out to be okay.
And I guess that's sort of anattitude I've always had that,
(15:49):
okay, this, this, I don't likethis.
This isn't it, but what am Ilearning from it?
And what am I getting?
You know,
Caroline (15:56):
Yeah.
And how can I get, yeah, that's,yeah,
Lucinda (15:58):
How can I turn into something positive?
Caroline (16:01):
Because in time, right?
Looking back, looking back, it'slike, oh, I see how that
happened and how that was abeneficial thing and now I get
it.
But looking forward isterrifying.
So they, you got laid off, butthen, they gave you a new job,
so you didn't actually have tohave a break of what do I do
(16:21):
now?
It was just more of, I guess I'mgonna learn to like this thing.
Lucinda (16:25):
Then, um, I, it turned out I was really good at sales
and I became the top salesman.
And my boss was very threatenedby me, and so he made up a rumor
that I was having an affair withthe warehouseman, who was this
wonderful
Caroline (16:44):
Uh.
Lucinda (16:45):
married man who I was friends with, his wife and his
two kids, and fortunately, they,you know, she knew, his wife
knew me and knew that wasn'thappening and everybody, but he
made it up and it got spreadaround the farm community.
And at that point I decided Ineeded to find a new position.
(17:06):
There wasn't a lot of recoursein those days.
It wasn't illegal to do thingslike that or harassment.
It wasn't illegal, so you kindof had to.
You kind of had to just get, getaway from it.
And I had, you know, talked tolawyers over the years as this
stuff happened and, and theysaid, oh, you don't wanna report
(17:26):
this.
You know, it'll ruin yourreputation more than, than the,
the man or whatever'causethey'll, they'll.
You know, they'll win and thatkind of thing.
So instead I got a different jobI went to and I thought I wanted
to get back into research.
So I used that as anopportunity.
It was definitely a motivationto to leave.
Caroline (17:50):
Yeah.
And so then what was that job?
Lucinda (17:54):
so that one was required a move to the Midwest.
And so I, I was in Californiaand so I moved by myself to St.
Louis, Missouri.
And I worked there for a while.
And then they sent me to CentralIllinois to work in corn and
soybeans.
With chemicals, doingexperiments with chemicals In
(18:15):
the environment.
And You know, I was young.
It was scary, but again, Ireally, I guess taking risks is
something really important tome.
And that's the, the kind ofexample I'm talking about.
Like, well, people say, well, Idon't wanna leave my parents or,
yeah okay, I understand that.
I totally understand that.
But, but you might try it andyou can always move back.
(18:36):
Right.
And so I took risks all throughmy career to see what would
happen.
And, but I always figured theywere, I was irreversible.
So it's not that scary when, youknow, you're just shopping.
Caroline (18:49):
I feel like sometimes people, and, and I naively
thought when I first took my jobthat I was gonna stay at that
company forever.
But I try to tell people it'sjust a job.
It's not a
Lucinda (19:02):
Right.
Caroline (19:02):
death do us part.
And even those sometimes yourealize might not work out for
you, but if you make the bestdecision with the data that you
have and you try it, if somehowit doesn't work out so long as
you have a story as to why, whatyou learned, and now what you'd
like to do.
Then it becomes better.
(19:23):
But these people who are tryingto, at 15 or 18, or even 22 or
25, plan out the whole rest oftheir career.
Lucinda (19:32):
Yeah, it's not gonna go like that.
Caroline (19:35):
It's overwhelming, you know, just, just over,
Lucinda (19:40):
I love what you said too about it not being a
marriage because, People dothink that they take a job and
they can't leave it And theysay, well, I need to give them
like two months notice.
And I said, give them a weeknotice.
I because I had one job.
Well, like the, the job with thewarehouseman rumor, when I told
them I was leaving, I gave mytwo week notice and they said,
(20:02):
your last day will be tomorrow.
So they can fire you, uh, layyou off, say goodbye like that.
There's no legal stuff, so don'tfeel bad.
You know about it's not amarriage.
Don't feel bad about quitting ajob.
They can, they can let you go.
Caroline (20:21):
Yeah, and especially if the environment becomes toxic
because Yeah.
But, but we have this,
Lucinda (20:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Caroline (20:29):
and believing that we matter and believing that we are
a work family and that essentialpart of the team.
Lucinda (20:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Not family.
Caroline (20:41):
Yeah.
And then that's all fine andgood until you're at the wrong
side of a
Lucinda (20:46):
Yes.
Caroline (20:48):
or a toxic
Lucinda (20:51):
Right.
Caroline (20:51):
So,
Lucinda (20:52):
And I totally learned about, you know, mergers and,
and things like that, andlayoffs and and things I didn't
even know existed.
And you can't take thosepersonally.
I mean, you just have to go,okay, it's a business.
And, and if you're leaving,that's also business.
And, and I try to tell peoplethat like they're, they're
running a business.
If they don't need you anymore,they're gonna let you go.
(21:14):
And you have to think of yourown business.
This is my business.
Yeah.
It's business.
Caroline (21:20):
So you.
You ended up getting your PhDalso, how did that work out I
mean, it's like you ended upgetting your PhD as though you
got a sandwich, but like how didyou decide to wanna get PhD?
Lucinda (21:37):
Well, the company I was working for back in, in the
Midwest they, how can I putthis?
They were very discriminatory.
And first they got rid of theone hispanic person and then
(21:57):
they got rid of the one blackperson.
And then I was the only female,and I knew I was on the list and
they made up things to get ridof these diverse candidates.
And what they did for me in mycase, was that they decided to
(22:18):
make a new rule that youcouldn't get promoted unless you
had a PhD.
And I did not have a PhD andmost of the men, almost all the
men had PhDs.
There were a couple who didn't,but for some reason they got to
stay.
Well, they decided to stay.
I mean, you could stay, but therule was you weren't gonna get
(22:39):
promoted.
So I left.
I was like, okay, I get it.
One, I knew I was on thechopping block from this whole
diversity situation and two, youknow, if they're gonna make
rules like that, I just said,fine, I'll go get one.
So I left and I went you know, Ifound it one of the university
(23:00):
people I'd been working with onmy research at that company
would said he'd take me on as agrad student.
And interestingly, the, Idecided to ask the company.
That, that I was working for tofund my PhD if I worked on a
project of their, with theirnew, some of their new and they
(23:22):
did.
And so they funded it and I wasone of the few graduates who
came with their own money.
And it was very liberating.
Caroline (23:31):
wow.
Lucinda (23:32):
Again, a lesson, lesson is like, don't be afraid to ask
for things.
Because you never know.
I mean, it was really ballsy ofme to ask for after they were
kind of
Caroline (23:44):
Absolutely.
But if they said no, you wouldbe at the same
Lucinda (23:47):
Exactly,
Caroline (23:47):
what?
They said yes.
And then you were able to thatwhat a win-win for them to have
some great research for you tobe able to achieve this goal.
And kind of be like,
Lucinda (24:02):
yeah.
Caroline (24:02):
ha, ha,
Lucinda (24:03):
Satisfying.
And then because I had my ownmoney, I didn't have to work
while I was in grad school, so Ididn't have to be a graduate
assistant or a teachingassistant or anything'cause I
was funded
Caroline (24:15):
You got to focus.
That's so cool.
Lucinda (24:18):
And I got the focus and I got done in two and a half
years.
So it was, it was fast.
I wanted to get back in theworkforce.
I wanted, I missed my salary forsure'cause being a grad student
was not the same.
And, afterwards after I got myPhD, there were quite a lot of
job opportunities,
Caroline (24:37):
And you
Lucinda (24:38):
so
Caroline (24:38):
company and you were there a while and rose up
through the ranks.
Lucinda (24:45):
yeah.
Caroline (24:45):
A bit.
How did, how did that work?
How did you, or I guess when youwent into that company, what
kind of a position did you haveand then how did you progress to
get more opportunity?
Lucinda (24:58):
this is kind of another lesson learned because I joined
the company because they wereworking on chemicals in corn and
soybeans, which are the biggestcrops in the world, you know?
So I was like, oh yeah, I wannawork on corn and soybeans.
So I get there and they said,you're gonna work in rice.
And I was like, what?
You know, this was an agreementwe made.
(25:19):
But then I started looking intorice and I saw what an
incredible international crop itis.
And I saw all theseinternational opportunities for
me to work with researchers inJapan and the Philippines and
Thailand and South America and,you know, all over the world.
And so I turned this into like ahuge program.
I, no one had been working inrice in that company, and I
(25:41):
turned it into something.
And, and that's another thing,you know, like if you can look
at an opportunity that lookskind of tiny, but, but there's
ways to make it into somethingbigger, you know.
It was
Caroline (25:56):
Did you get to travel to all those places?
Lucinda (25:59):
Oh, oh, yeah.
I traveled extensively andpretty much from in my other
job, I traveled all over theUnited States, the the Midwest
one, and this job, I startedtraveling internationally and I
have been ever since.
And it was just a wonderful, youknow, wonderful, amazing
experience.
Caroline (26:17):
Was it hard to get them because some companies had
differing viewpoints.
And some travel opportunitieswent to the other gender.
How did you overcome,
Lucinda (26:32):
Yes, absolutely.
Caroline (26:33):
was that even a thing or was this company more open or
how, how did that work out?
Lucinda (26:38):
Oh no, it, it was definitely an effort because
their original response was, oh,we can't, we can't send a woman
to Japan because you know, it'sa really sexist country and they
don't know what to do with womenand stuff like that.
And I lobbied and lobbied for itand having one thing I learned
(26:59):
was having a PhD in foreigncountries, they're much more
respected, so it took away a lotof the, I was sort of a neuter.
I was not.
There was'cause other placesthat like call you miss or
misses or you know, but theycall you Dr.
Jackson.
And Dr.
Jackson did just fine with othermen who respected PhDs much more
(27:25):
than they do in the UnitedStates.
And the same thing was true inSouth America and in all parts
of Asia and places that I, thatI went.
I didn't have, I never was ableto get an international
assignment because I wanted tolive overseas and I thought Hong
Kong would be perfect.
And by this time I did have achild and there was also
(27:47):
discrimination against singleparents.
And they thought, oh, you, theyhad a million excuses why I
couldn't do that.
But it was, I thought it wouldbe perfect because I could
afford childcare in Hong Kongand, and it's a city and, you
know, sophisticated and stuffand you can work the whole
region.
And I tried for all of my careerto get an assignment and I got,
(28:12):
they really coveted thoseassignments, And they gave'em to
men.
So there were a few women when Iquit working in the corporate
world that had gotteninternational assignments.
But they were few.
And, and I got to the pointwhere I was when I got farther
up in my career.
I was a huge, I fought at a lotof personnel meetings for those
(28:36):
women to get those internationalassignments'cause I never was
able to do it.
They're I mean, in lots of ways.
And they pay like one and a halfsalary and you get, you know,
lots of vacation to go home andpaid trips home and it, very
lucrative and so they, wannagive them to women.
So, but that's why I joined thePeace Corps.
(29:00):
I was like, I'm gonna get memyself, my own international
assignment.
And I did so.
Caroline (29:05):
Ah, yes.
Yes.
And I definitely, I do wanna, Iwanna absolutely spend time
talking about that, but I'mcurious, when you were in the
industry, how did you shift fromindividual contributor level
position to leader manager?
Because then you ended up withquite some phenomenal positions.
(29:28):
Lots of responsibility, lots ofpeople.
But like how did you take thatleap?
Lucinda (29:34):
it started by speaking up as an individual contributor
talking in meetings.
Saying things not just sittingthere.
I had to learn.
I, you know, I practiced infront of the mirror, like, how
was I gonna say something?
And a lot of times I'd write itdown so I, you know, if my
heart's beating while I speakup.
(29:55):
In my first meeting I learned tospeak up a lot.
I learned to I learned tocommunicate.
I practiced speaking, I gave alot of presentations.
Whenever I could, I gave apresentation at a conference or
to a group of upper management.
I would volunteer.
Like, no, I'll, you know, a lotof, like I said, a lot of
(30:15):
scientists don't wanna talk
Caroline (30:18):
Yeah.
Lucinda (30:18):
be out there, and I would say I would, I'll do it.
And that gave me kind of a, aplatform.
And I also wrote articles and Idid some publications when I was
in companies, even though that'shard to do, I published some
things.
I partnered with academic peopleto publish and those kind of
credentials, they kind of helpedme stand out.
(30:41):
And then when, um, and I alsoreally like people and I made
friends with a lot of people inmy companies and they saw that
and when some team, like a firstthing is like a team leader
position opened up, I appliedand I got I got one And
Caroline (31:05):
Wow.
Lucinda (31:06):
group starting with like five employees.
And then another, i'd seeanother, you kind of prove
yourself as a leader and thatyou could handle.
A budget, a business planning,forecasting, human resources,
you know, that kinda stuff.
You start having to fire people,hire people.
(31:27):
And then I took another job thathad 13 people reporting to me
and just so gradually then therewas, you know, a hundred and
then four hundreds, and that'show it, that's how it went.
One little step at a time.
Caroline (31:46):
So step by step?
Yeah.
So little each one.
You just proved your keptdelivered, did a great job and
made yourself more visible forthe next opportunities and, just
boldly kept putting your name in
Lucinda (32:03):
Put your name in and I didn't get all of'em for sure.
I didn't get all the jobs, youknow, but You get, you find one
and and then I learned the ropesthat you do a lot of advocating
for yourself.
You go around to people and say,
Caroline (32:20):
Hmm.
Lucinda (32:21):
first you find out who's on the selection team.
Then you go talk to each ofthose people.
You make it a 15 minuteappointment with them and say,
Caroline, you know, this job'scoming up.
You know, I really think I'd bea good candidate and here's why
and I really appreciate yoursupport, if it's possible.
And then you could, you know,sometimes you didn't get it, the
person would go like, there's,you know, Bob, he's been around
(32:43):
for a long time, and you know,he's, and I go, yeah, I know,
but, and then you just let'emknow that you're interested not
in a creepy way, in a nice waylike that.
I want, I really want this.
I'd love the opportunity, youknow, I understand that, you
know, you've known Bob a longtime, but I understand that but
you know, maybe the next time,you know, I'm interested in this
(33:04):
kind of move.
Caroline (33:07):
And even that, yeah, that, that process beyond the
process.
and the ability to positivelydifferentiate yourself and kind
of make a little bit your ownpath that that's
Lucinda (33:19):
Right.
Caroline (33:20):
not a lot of people do that.
They think, oh, I have to apply,and then I'm gonna wait, and
then they might contact me.
And meanwhile there are peoplewho are
Lucinda (33:32):
Yeah.
Caroline (33:33):
going in the side
Lucinda (33:35):
Yes.
Do the pre-work.
Caroline (33:37):
and just exploring.
Yeah, those are great, great,great tips.
Lucinda (33:41):
I
Caroline (33:41):
Yeah, like networking and and all of those things.
Yeah.
Very, very interesting.
So a couple themes come up.
Self-advocacy, communication,building communication skills.
This writing thing is reallyinteresting because you've now
written a few books and one of'em is gonna be about the Peace
(34:03):
Corps, but when did writingbecome on your radar as
something that you enjoyeddoing?
Because that's, I believe,another skillset that you have
beyond a typical scientist.
You have phenomenal captivatingwriting skills and for everyone
(34:23):
who doesn't know, there are twobooks, it's just a girl.
There's a whole bunch of storybeyond the beautiful highlights
in a bio and project escape.
Both of these are phenomenalbooks.
I had heard from anotherAmerican Chemical Society career
consultant
Lucinda (34:41):
Aw, it's nice.
Caroline (34:42):
That he had read Project Escape and couldn't put
it down.
And I was like, oh, okay, okay.
And so, but I thought, well, I'mgonna start at the beginning.
I'm, I'm a girl.
I'll start with just a girl.
And to realize a lot of themesthat you had to overcome and
challenges of harassment and,being treated differently in
(35:06):
some really awkward situationswere underneath all of these
rising the corporate ranks.
I was completely blown
Lucinda (35:14):
away,
Caroline (35:14):
surprised.
I shouldn't have been surprisedbut resilience and this amazing
writing.
So back to this how did you getinterested in writing?
Where did you learn that?
Lucinda (35:25):
Always liked it in school, English class in high
school.
I really liked it.
Uh, I had a poetry phase.
I went through, of course, in myteens.
And, and I always liked to Ienjoyed writing my thesis, my
master's thesis.
I enjoyed writing my PhD thesis.
And, and then when I got into towork, I really enjoyed putting
(35:47):
together a story of what we'daccomplished.
And I, and for work I often usepictures because, you know,
they're more, a lot of peopleare visual.
So I'd find some really cool,I'd take a lot of pictures and
put and I used to make these onepage things I'd sent kind of
like, flyers that I'd send outto people saying like, oh, we're
(36:11):
doing this amazing work inremote sensing right now, and
look at these pictures.
And I'd show some of thesesatellite pictures we had of our
facilities.
And I'd make it like, this is,this is some tech, a new
technology, but look how weapply it and look how cool this
is, and translating that fromthe technical to the practical
(36:34):
and to non-scientists becamekind of a specialty for me and I
really enjoyed doing it.
And that's what I could do formy employees too, because they'd
have some amazing thing they'reworking on.
They discovered, you know, somewhole new process and yet they
weren't getting it out there topeople.
I would like work with them andlike gimme some pictures and,
(36:54):
and then I could take it to themanagement teams and say, look
what these people are doing andlook how cool this is.
And then everybody would golike, oh, wow.
And, and put it into languagethat they understand instead,
instead of saying like, oh, it'sthese satellites can see 500
miles.
That's as if you could see fromright where we're standing to LA
Imagine if you could see thatfar.
(37:16):
And do that kind of stuff thatthey go, oh yeah, these are
these people that are nottechnical.
Right?
And so I really enjoyed thatkind of sharing.
And I'd always kind of kept itup and like I said, I did
publications while I was incompanies, and a lot of people
did.
And they said I was too hard.
You know, everything'sproprietary.
You can't get it out there.
(37:37):
You have to work with thelawyers.
But I worked with the lawyersand I got some stuff written and
like I said, I co-authoredthings a few book chapters with
people who are writing books andum, yeah, it's just a way of
communicating.
Caroline (38:32):
You're really phenomenal.
It's, a, wonderful, amazinggift.
So I would encourage who hearsthis.
The very next thing you need todo if you don't already have
them, is get just a Girl and getProject Escape
Lucinda (38:45):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you so much.
Caroline (38:52):
But tell us about Project Escape.
How did you decide to leave thisamazing, like what was your last
What was the,
Lucinda (39:03):
I was the head of health, environment and safety
for the corporation.
Mm-hmm.
Caroline (39:10):
And you just decide, Hey, about I leave all of this
behind and I know, I'll get thatinternational assignment and
I'll join the Peace Corps?
Like
Lucinda (39:26):
Well, that's when I started doing my own personal
vision statement and thinkingabout what my career was
lacking.
And then I came up with my corevalues.
So my personal vision statementwas, create a remarkable next
act.
'Cause I've been in a corporateAmerica for 40 years and I was
(39:48):
saying, I'm not, what should Ido next?
You know, I'm, I'm a littlebored, I wanna do something
else.
And so that's when I reallystarted personally working on
having this vision of create aremarkable next act.
I said, yeah, I want.
I want my life to be remarkable.
You know?
That's what I want.
And I, and I'll, and I use theword create because I want to, I
(40:09):
can create that for myself.
You know, nobody's gonna give methat or
Caroline (40:12):
Yeah.
Lucinda (40:13):
job was gonna make, you know, make that for me.
So then getting into my own corevalues I saw one of'em was was
freedom and adventure.
And I wanted more freedom than Ihad in the, as you have in a
job.
Right so I thought and then Ihad noble purpose was one of my
authentic self, which I feltlike I hadn't been thoroughly,
(40:36):
you know, completely incorporate America.
you
Caroline (40:39):
Yeah, you.
have to fit in a little bit,right?
You have to be who you gottaplay the role.
Sadly,
Lucinda (40:45):
Right.
Caroline (40:46):
lot of people are scared to be themselves, or if
you do show yourself, you'regonna get judged or some adverse
reaction for
Lucinda (40:54):
One man, one man told me I had Democrat hair and yeah.
Yeah, so I
Caroline (41:00):
What, like what does that even mean?
what does that even mean?
Lucinda (41:06):
I straightened it.
Straightened it.
more so it looked more new.
Not Democrat.
Caroline (41:14):
It's hair.
It's hair.
Yeah.
Lucinda (41:19):
I don't know.
You know, people make weird, Butnow I can wear my hair anyway I
want.
But anyway, yeah.
I just decided to branch outmore and do that for myself.
So those values really helpedme.
that's why in your work,Caroline, you also talked a lot
about people's core values and Ididn't, I really hadn't done
(41:41):
that assessment.
I mean, here I was really latein my career and I hadn't really
said like, is this everything?
For me and I found these otherthings, you know, about
authentic self that, that, likeI was just mentioning, I wanted
to be more authentic.
I wanted to just really find outwho I am.
And I've been able to do thatand it's just been so fun.
(42:04):
So fun.
And so the Peace Corps was oneof'em.
It was one of those like, I wantmy international assignment.
Caroline (42:11):
And you, and you convinced your husband to also.
Lucinda (42:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Caroline (42:17):
Go.
And I think that's another thingtoo.
You find a cause that you wantto champion and then you will
bring others on board.
And those who love youinevitably end up going along.
But without spoiling the book,because it is a must read, give
(42:40):
us the snapshot of how did itreally go and what did you
learn?
Lucinda (42:45):
It did not go well.
Which again, another lifelesson.
You know your best plans.
Like, this is it man, and thenit, it doesn't, but in
retrospect, I wouldn't change itfor the world.
Okay.
Caroline (43:01):
Oh wow.
Lucinda (43:01):
So, It didn't, I got assignment from my husband too.
And the assignments we got didnot equal the job description.
We were not,
Caroline (43:10):
Yeah.
Lucinda (43:10):
not paid properly for the economy of the nation, and
we became how would I say this?
I mean, they, it's a very classoriented society.
The island we went to, thecountry we went to, and we were
on the bottom rung of thesociety, and so we were not
respected and because we were sopoor.
(43:33):
And they had cars and washingmachines and all this stuff.
And we were living in povertyand it was really difficult.
It was really difficult'causeour jobs were professional, So
we went to organizations who areprofessional, but they had like
suits and nice clothes and I waswearing, like, they told me not
to bring anything good.
(43:54):
So, I mean, all I had was likelittle dress, you know, a little
flimsy dress and some some flipflops.
And I didn't have any money tobuy in the Peace Corps.
You're not supposed to spendyour own money.
So, I didn't have any money tobuy any clothes and they all
wore makeup and I didn't evenbring makeup.
I mean, it was really difficultbecause of the, that disconnect.
Caroline (44:17):
And how did that work on your mission of finding your
authentic self?
Lucinda (44:23):
It is just another lesson about who I am.
I guess I grew stronger.
It really developed my sense ofhumor and the biggest reward
from it was my husband and Ifell in love there.
Caroline (44:42):
Oh, that's amazing.
Lucinda (44:43):
Nothing like hardship to bring you together
Caroline (44:48):
And how long had you guys been married at that point?
Lucinda (44:52):
Almost 30 years.
Caroline (44:55):
Wow.
So you're saying there's hopebecause that's right.
Because I don't know about yourmarriage, but I'd love my
husband.
He's amazing.
I'm sure he is gonna listen tothis.
And there's, there's phases ofthere's, there's phases of like
excitement and adventure andresponsibilities then and work
(45:17):
and priorities.
And sometimes you're driftingand other times you're, you're
drawing closer.
So, that's amazing that thatexperience became a drawing
closer event.
So I guess, but honey, we're notgoing to the Peace Corps.
Maybe we'll go on a cruise orsomething.
Lucinda (45:34):
We learned never to blame each other.
And he did not blame me.
He did not blame me for thiskind of fiasco.
And we both learned to say, Iknow you're doing the best you
can, honey.
I know you are.
I know you.
We do that to this day.
We still we talk about thatperiod of our marriage and what
we learned and we would stillrepeat lines that we, we used
(45:56):
during that time to, you know,keep going.
Caroline (46:01):
Oh, wow.
Now another theme throughoutsome of your books that I
thought, oh wow, that'sdifferent.
I didn't know that.
Maybe I should do that now, isanytime there was a stress or a
challenge or something.
Yeah.
Stress or challenge.
You wrote about multipleinstances of exercise,
(46:23):
meditation, some sort of healthyoutlet.
How did that come about?
Like where, where did, because Ididn't do that.
I would just stress and obsessor, and I feel like some other
people do it.
Like you'll stress, you'reobsessed, you're gonna check
out, you're going to try tocompensate with some sort of
substance, but yet what youcompensated with was good for
(46:47):
you.
Lucinda (46:47):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Caroline (46:49):
How did, how did you get that nugget?
And for anybody else that didn'tget it, Hey, guess what?
If you're stressed, you can goexercise or you can even
meditate and do yoga likewaiting for a plane in the
airport.
Like what?
Lucinda (47:03):
Yeah.
I think I learned that prettyyoung.
My dad as much of a misogynistthat he was, I picked up some
things from him.
He used to stand on his headevery day.
As long as I can remember and Inow also stand on my head every
day and he always told me like,don't stop doing, don't stop
(47:27):
moving because it's hard tostart again.
So somehow I took that prettyyoung and I, when I started
doing any sport or anything, Iwould just keep doing it and not
stop because I didn't want toget, so, I mean, I've had to
modify, you know, now, now I doyoga and swimming, biking, I
(47:48):
mean, stuff that, you know, Idon't play rugby or anything,
but, I've learned that for meit's kind of essential, is, you
know, it's endorphins.
And then this part of thisauthentic self stuff that, that
I I learned and really starteddoing.
After I left the corporate worldand was in the Peace Corps and
then afterwards was spendingtime on my spiritual side, which
(48:11):
I hadn't had a lot ofopportunity to do in my life.
And for me that's meditation.
And I've really learned, I mean,I love it.
I've become almost a, I mean, Idon't wanna become evangelist
about it, but it's so helpfulfor me.
And so I meditate every day andI didn't really used to know how
(48:33):
to do that, but in the last sixor seven years I've learned.
How to do it.
And, it's just made such adifference in my life.
I wish I'd, I wish I'd known howto do it sooner.
I toyed with it, but I didn'treally think it was for me.
Caroline (48:48):
And giving space to allow what, the universe, God,
whoever, is wanting
Lucinda (48:55):
Yeah.
Caroline (48:56):
to move through you we spend so much of our time being
a human doing, it's hard to beat the being.
Yeah.
Lucinda (49:05):
Yeah.
Yes.
It really is, and it takes sometime and attention that I never
gave myself, and it's what I'm,and now it's, I feel so
fortunate to have discoveredthis and been able to give this
to myself in this time in mylife.
I can honestly say I have neverbeen happier.
Caroline (49:26):
Oh, that's amazing.
What is next for you?
I know ACS is coming up in a ina little bit of time here, I
think you're giving a talk orgiving a course.
What's, what are you doing atACS ACS is American Chemical
Society, so
Lucinda (49:41):
Right.
A great organization that Idiscovered through my husband,
who's been a member for 55 yearsor something.
I was not a member I was amember of other organizations,
but not this one.
But, I discovered it.
He sent me a that they werehaving a, a session at one of
the meetings a few years agoabout retirement there's a
(50:02):
senior chemist group and I hadjust written a Project Escape
about what to do after, youknow, your career or your set,
set career and so I was able to,I sent an abstract in and got my
paper accepted.
So I went to the meeting andthat's how I met.
I met everybody and kind of grewfrom there.
(50:23):
So now I'm doing a lot of thissimilar kind of stuff that
Caroline is doing.
Yours is more organized thanmine.
I have, I have, my own.
Caroline (50:34):
I don't know how to make something simple.
I was just talking to a clientearlier.
I was like, I'm a specialist,and so it's gonna be special and
it's gonna be thorough and allthe stuff,
Lucinda (50:45):
Still do that, because I think it's just a world.
Wow.
And, and it's, and now I'velearned, I've specialized in
scientists, so I do counselingfor scientists, Retired or
mid-career, and I also do forhigh school students and I'm
really enjoying that.
I have, I just did one last weekand I have another one coming up
(51:07):
Friday.
And it's so hopeful seeing thesejust like 15, 16 years old kids,
Who are interested in STEM andsee what their, the last week we
did one on you knows thesereally complicated genetic
process, new processes andstuff.
It's it's so interesting and,seeing these kids grasp it and
(51:29):
then, and then we do a lot ofcareer.
You know, I give career andcounseling to them, so I'm doing
a whole gambit now.
But specializing in STEM fromkids all the way to old people
because there's tons forscientists to do after they
don't wanna work for somebodyelse until I started my own
(51:49):
company.
Caroline (51:50):
How do people find you?
Lucinda (51:52):
Oh.
mostly on my websiteLucindajackson.com and I do
public speaking.
So I advertise a lot onLinkedIn.
I guess that's my main media.
Also Facebook'cause that's thewhere a lot of my clientele
seems to hang out.
My, my advice is pick two socialmedia platforms and, and go
(52:15):
there.
And I post regularly and that'sthe kind of thing I do to keep
my business going.
But a lot of it's word of mouth.
Usually when I give a publicspeaking event, then people come
and talk to me
Caroline (52:26):
I like to focus on success and being authentic and
authentic self and authenticsuccess.
And to me, I say authenticsuccess is however you define
it.
How do you define authenticsuccess for you in this chapter?
Lucinda (52:41):
For me, it's for sure my core values, which are
success is having a noblepurpose.
Success is being authentic,being myself, not pretending to
be somebody else, just beingmyself and see how that turns
out.
It's about freedom, personalfreedom, adventure, a grasping
(53:05):
adventure.
It's about love.
I used to, I had a, after thePeace Corps, I changed one of my
values to romance because we'dhad such a great time and, and
now I've expanded it just tolove.
It sounds kind of sappy, but
Caroline (53:22):
No, it's It's beautiful.
It's absolutely beautiful.
Well, thank you so much Lucinda,for sharing more of your story
and um, we'll put the links forthe books and your LinkedIn and
our show notes.
But I appreciate you so much forcoming and
Lucinda (53:36):
Thank you.
It's been a blast talking toyou.
Lucinda continues to lead withclarity, courage, and care.
Her story reflects what'spossible when you keep growing
on purpose.
This moment in your life holdsmomentum.
Everything you've lived andlearned becomes part of what
(53:57):
you're able to build from now.
You are equipped.
You are ready, and your nextsuccess is already unfolding.
For free tools and guidance tosupport your next chapter, Visit
nextsuccesscareers.com.
Please Share this episode withsomeone reflecting on their own
transition and follow the showfor more conversations that help
(54:19):
you move forward with clarityand confidence.
To learn more about Lucinda, herspeaking and her books, remember
to visit lucindajackson.com.
Your next success is alreadyunfolding.
Keep going.
You're not done yet.
Caroline (54:37):
Thanks for listening to Your Next Success with Dr.
Caroline Sangal.
Remember, authentic success isyours to define and includes
aligning your career to supportthe life you want.
What happens when your careerreflects years of leadership,
impact, and growth and you beginto sense it's time for something
more?
More freedom, more alignment,more space to create from who
you are now.
Today's guest followed that.
She took everything she'd builtand turned it into something
(00:24):
even more expansive, expressive,and deeply fulfilling.
Caroline (00:29):
This is the Your Next Success podcast, and I'm your
host, Dr.
Caroline Sangal.
I'm a life first career coachand strategist on a mission to
normalize questioning yourcareer because I believe each of
us is made on purpose for apurpose only we can fulfill.
The longer we live out ofalignment with who we are, what
(00:51):
we do best, and why we're here,the more we miss out.
And the more the world missesout on what only we can give.
The Your Next Success Podcast iswhere we explore how to build a
career that truly fuels yourlife.
We talk about self-discovery,smart job search strategies,
(01:11):
professional growth, and you'llhear stories from people who've
navigated big career transitionsthemselves so you can see what
it's really like to make boldchanges and feel inspired to
create your own version ofauthentic success, one that is
aligned, meaningful, and trulyyours.
(01:34):
Welcome to Your Next Success,the podcast where we talk about
the real life moments thatinvite us to grow and what it
looks like to create a nextchapter that reflects who you
are now.
today's guest brings depthresilience and a remarkable
ability to keep moving forwardthrough every season of life and
(01:56):
leadership.
Dr.
Lucinda Jackson began her careerduring a time when few women
were working in scientificfields.
What she had was a willingnessto try new things, to stay open
and to pursue opportunities thatled her forward.
She earned a PhD and her winningmindset took her around the
(02:19):
world.
She worked in more than 30countries for four Fortune 500
companies.
Eventually became a globalexecutive, serving as a general
manager of health, environmentand safety, leading
international teams in shapingenergy and sustainability
practices on a global scale.
When it was time for a newrhythm, Lucinda stepped into a
(02:41):
powerful and purpose-driven nextact.
She joined the Peace Corps.
She founded LJ Ventures and shebecame a speaker, consultant and
author of two inspiring memoirs: Just A Girl (02:51):
Growing Up, Female
and Ambitious, and ProjectEscape: Lessons for an
Unscripted Life.
In this episode, you'll hear howLucinda navigated science and
leadership in systems thatweren't designed with her in
mind.
What guided her transitions fromcorporate leadership into
(03:14):
writing, service, and speaking.
How she created a fulfillingnext act, rooted in
contribution, creativity, andpeace.
Insights for anyone exploringwhat their next chapter could
look like.
Encouragement to build forwardwith wisdom, clarity, and
purpose.
This conversation is full ofinsight for anyone in a moment
(03:38):
of transition, reflection, orexpansion.
Let's listen in on myconversation with Dr.
Lucinda Jackson.
Caroline (03:49):
Welcome Lucinda to Your Next Success.
I am so excited to have you onour show today.
Lucinda (03:58):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you so much.
It's great to be here.
Caroline (04:02):
What I'd like to do is help people understand a bit
about careers and transitionsand your career bio reads
amazingly, I'd love to kind ofget into some of the stories
behind the stories.
Can you take us back to thebeginning, like during your
childhood, did you have acertain career in mind or how
(04:24):
you thought your life was gonnago?
Lucinda (04:27):
Well, I loved being outdoors and I loved bugs and
plants, and I used to put my,jackknife and my magnifying
glass in my pocket and go outand study'em and I love doing
that.
my mom would be calling me, youknow, late'cause I was out doing
that.
So I thought about biology.
(04:49):
But, they didn't have a biologyclass in my high school.
Now that it's amazing what theyhave, but they didn't have
anything then.
So I really had no idea and thenpeople were telling me like my
dad, that girls don't need to goto college.
So I really wasn't, I decided Iwasn't gonna go to college.
So that's kind of how itstarted.
Caroline (05:09):
So did your dad then assume that you were just made
for having a family and being ahomemaker, or
Lucinda (05:20):
Oh,
Caroline (05:20):
of
Lucinda (05:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
He told me that what I reallyneeded to do was to learn how to
cook because that's what menwant in a woman.
Caroline (05:28):
Ugh.
Lucinda (05:29):
so I didn't apply any place for college, but then at
the last minute, I didn't haveanything to do.
I couldn't get a job right as17-year-old.
And, so I applied to onecollege.
Fortunately, I got in.
And, looking back, I saw my,some of my original papers
recently and I'd actually putdown Biology as my major, which
(05:51):
crazy'cause I didn't knowanything about It.
But I, that didn't happen.
I ended up majoring in first indance and then I majored in
economics and then French and,and then I got really worried
because, I really wanted to earnmy own money, and that'll be a
(06:13):
theme throughout this talk isthat, you know, and one of my
key tips for young people is tosave money and it'll make your
life so much easier.
So I wanted to earn my own moneyand I had grown up with my
father owning all the pursestrings.
(06:34):
So, my mom, when they gotdivorced, when I went off to
college, she had nothing and noskills.
And I thought, that's nevergonna happen to me.
So I was here, I was a, by thistime, a French major, and
realizing what kind of job couldI get with that and how am I
gonna earn my keep?
So I switched schools.
(06:56):
It was a liberal arts collegeand I switched schools to go to
a school that had agriculturalclasses and things.
I thought, I'll major, I likebiology, so maybe I'll major in
agriculture'cause I couldprobably get a job that way.
So that's kind of how itstarted.
Caroline (07:13):
How did you, even know about, like, so if you were
already in one school andimmersed in that environment and
your family has other kind ofviews, who did you ask or who
was a resource?
Like how did you learn even thatmaybe a different school could
be an option or that you couldeven transfer schools
Lucinda (07:34):
It was really difficult because, I certainly had no
vision.
I hadn't thought about my corevalues.
I was just totally operating bythe seat of my pants.
But I did meet a man, his namewas Dr.
Bert Brehm and he taught plantbiology at the college where I
was going in Oregon.
And he was just a wonderful manand he took me and the students
(07:56):
out on a lot of field trips andI sort of fell in love with
plants.
and I started thinking, well,what could I do with plants to
make money?
And then I thought, well,agriculture, you know, that's,
Caroline (08:06):
oh, nice.
Lucinda (08:07):
as sophisticated as it was.
And I really encourage youngpeople today I do mentoring for
young, especially STEM studentsand encourage them to really
think about, you know, a visionand their core values, which is
something I just, that's why Ikind of messed around for a
(08:29):
while.
However, I also encourage themthat you don't have to know
Caroline (08:34):
Yeah.
Lucinda (08:34):
away and don't feel bad if you don't.
And I tell'em the story aboutFrench and dance and they're
like, really?
They thought they had to havetheir major figured out, you
know, when they're 14 orsomething.
And there's more pressure forthat now.
And I tell'em that all thosethings I did, really helped my
life.
I mean, I still dance.
I love to dance.
(08:54):
I don't speak French, but Istudied Spanish.
I switched.
Caroline (08:57):
Yeah.
Lucinda (08:58):
So it's not an economics.
Heck yeah.
That was real.
It's been really helpful and,you know, being in business, so,
it's just not thatstraightforward.
You know, I have a, a picture ofmy career that goes kind of like
this and, and.
Caroline (09:13):
Everybody's, I feel like we think we have this
thought that careers are linearor stepwise and that that's how
it goes, and everybody just hasthis beautiful, wonderful
journey.
And then, we get in there andrealize it's a bit of a mess.
I also like to encourage peopleto find someone a few months,
(09:35):
years, decades ahead of them andjust start having conversations
because although I couldn'tmaybe articulate what I thought
I wanted to do,'cause I wasstill stuck in what I thought I
should do, but there areelements that if I could have
had a conversation, I'd be like,can you help me understand?
How can
Lucinda (09:54):
Right.
Caroline (09:55):
talk to people, and I really like talking about
science, but I might not be theone that needs to stand by the
hood and do the science, butlike, how can I do that?
Like
Lucinda (10:06):
Yeah.
Caroline (10:06):
a,
Lucinda (10:07):
Yeah.
Caroline (10:08):
ahead of time could have said, oh, maybe this or
maybe that.
Or even I've talked to somechemists who became professors
at universities, and then theyget into it for a while and they
kind of wanna maybe do somethingelse and then they feel like
they're stuck, but yet they'vedone analytical instrumentation.
(10:28):
And I was like, have you thoughtabout every single analytical
instrumentation manufacturer haschemists who can teach others
about the instrument?
And have been probably four,four different people in the
last five years or so that I'vehelped transfer from professor
(10:49):
to analytical instrumentationmanufacturer.
Lucinda (10:52):
Caroline, it sounds like you didn't have a lot of
guidance either.
I mean, there just weren'tthings like your business
available to go talk to somebodyor to help have somebody help
you sort out like what, what youwanna do for one thing, and then
how you go about getting it.
I mean, nobody suggestedagriculture to me.
(11:12):
I just came up with it.
Like, oh, I mean, and then Ifound an Ag College, UC Davis, I
transferred there because theydo agriculture.
Right?
It wasn't, it was that, that,informal.
But it would've been reallygreat to, you know, have the
kind of thought process thatpeople have now.
I mean, I have that now formyself.
I have a vision, done my corevalues, and it helps guide me,
(11:35):
constantly on my continuedcareer path today.
So.
Caroline (11:39):
Yes.
So you went, you switched yourmajor to agriculture, and then
what happened?
Lucinda (11:46):
Then I studied, I took a lot of chemistry classes and I
got interested in agriculturalchemicals and, then I tried to
get a job and I could not get ajob as a bachelor's degree
person and especially as afemale.
In that business in thiswould've been 19 something, 74,
(12:12):
something like that, centuriesago.
And, so then I stayed and got amaster's degree because the
school was willing to do it.
And so I did that and I did geta professor who knew a lot
about, he worked with a lot ofcompanies so he wasn't just a
Ivy Tower academic and throughhim, I met a lot of people in
(12:35):
the chemical business and theywere just starting to hire
women.
The Equal Opportunity Act hadbeen passed, and the reason I
got hired was, and nobody let meforget that the reason that I
was hired was because theyneeded to fill some quotas of
women.
But yeah, it was a plus that Igot a job, but it was a negative
(12:58):
that people said, oh, you, youonly got hired.
You know why you're here.
Caroline (13:02):
You only got it because of this identity.
Lucinda (13:05):
Yeah.
It's not'cause you're smart.
Caroline (13:07):
identity politics why can't we just, just like, let's
widen the whole pool to as manypeople as possible
Lucinda (13:13):
Yeah, of course.
Caroline (13:14):
get'em in the process.
Lucinda (13:16):
Get the best one.
Caroline (13:17):
And let's see.
And then I had one company tellme, oh, we don't need a
diversity policy because you'vehelped us with that and I'm
like, well, let me be real clearhere.
I'm looking at everyone I'mcasting a wide net.
It just so happens that you'veseen time and time again that
(13:38):
the people who have been thebest options for you have been
diverse candidates.
Lucinda (13:43):
Yeah.
Caroline (13:43):
Okay, so you start working at, what kind of a
company?
Lucinda (13:48):
Chemical company that They did research and marketing
and everything on pesticides.
So I was really interested inenvironmental things.
So, I did a lot of fieldresearch.
You know, looking at the impactsof chemicals on the environment,
and that was a lot of interestto me.
You know, where they go in thesoil, you know, where do they
(14:09):
get dissipated into the air?
Do the plants take them up?
You know, what happens to them?
So I worked for this companyabout a year, and then this
thing happened that I had noidea about, which is that they,
the chemical business wasstarting to do a lot of mergers,
(14:29):
and sales.
So my company got sold tosomebody else and I got laid off
and I was like.
Is this even legal?
I mean, I've never heard ofbeing laid off,
Caroline (14:39):
Yeah.
Lucinda (14:40):
But I was only 23 or something like that.
And, so I quickly thought, youknow, I better find something
else.
So they, they gave me anotherjob, but it was in sales, so it
wasn't in my field of researchor more, chemically oriented.
It was in sales of pesticides,which again, like I tell people,
(15:04):
it wasn't the worst thing tohappen because I learned how to
make my point, right?
I learned how to go up, knock ona farmer's door and, and
describe a product to them and,and make a sale.
And a lot of scientists do notknow how to do that.
And I've used it constantly toget money for research projects
(15:24):
to get my employees promoted to,bring in some new technology.
I've learned how to sell myprojects.
And so that experience, eventhough at the time I felt like
this is, this is, you know, Iwent to college for this and, it
turned out to be okay.
And I guess that's sort of anattitude I've always had that,
(15:49):
okay, this, this, I don't likethis.
This isn't it, but what am Ilearning from it?
And what am I getting?
You know,
Caroline (15:56):
Yeah.
And how can I get, yeah, that's,yeah,
Lucinda (15:58):
How can I turn into something positive?
Caroline (16:01):
Because in time, right?
Looking back, looking back, it'slike, oh, I see how that
happened and how that was abeneficial thing and now I get
it.
But looking forward isterrifying.
So they, you got laid off, butthen, they gave you a new job,
so you didn't actually have tohave a break of what do I do
(16:21):
now?
It was just more of, I guess I'mgonna learn to like this thing.
Lucinda (16:25):
Then, um, I, it turned out I was really good at sales
and I became the top salesman.
And my boss was very threatenedby me, and so he made up a rumor
that I was having an affair withthe warehouseman, who was this
wonderful
Caroline (16:44):
Uh.
Lucinda (16:45):
married man who I was friends with, his wife and his
two kids, and fortunately, they,you know, she knew, his wife
knew me and knew that wasn'thappening and everybody, but he
made it up and it got spreadaround the farm community.
And at that point I decided Ineeded to find a new position.
(17:06):
There wasn't a lot of recoursein those days.
It wasn't illegal to do thingslike that or harassment.
It wasn't illegal, so you kindof had to.
You kind of had to just get, getaway from it.
And I had, you know, talked tolawyers over the years as this
stuff happened and, and theysaid, oh, you don't wanna report
(17:26):
this.
You know, it'll ruin yourreputation more than, than the,
the man or whatever'causethey'll, they'll.
You know, they'll win and thatkind of thing.
So instead I got a different jobI went to and I thought I wanted
to get back into research.
So I used that as anopportunity.
It was definitely a motivationto to leave.
Caroline (17:50):
Yeah.
And so then what was that job?
Lucinda (17:54):
so that one was required a move to the Midwest.
And so I, I was in Californiaand so I moved by myself to St.
Louis, Missouri.
And I worked there for a while.
And then they sent me to CentralIllinois to work in corn and
soybeans.
With chemicals, doingexperiments with chemicals In
(18:15):
the environment.
And You know, I was young.
It was scary, but again, Ireally, I guess taking risks is
something really important tome.
And that's the, the kind ofexample I'm talking about.
Like, well, people say, well, Idon't wanna leave my parents or,
yeah okay, I understand that.
I totally understand that.
But, but you might try it andyou can always move back.
(18:36):
Right.
And so I took risks all throughmy career to see what would
happen.
And, but I always figured theywere, I was irreversible.
So it's not that scary when, youknow, you're just shopping.
Caroline (18:49):
I feel like sometimes people, and, and I naively
thought when I first took my jobthat I was gonna stay at that
company forever.
But I try to tell people it'sjust a job.
It's not a
Lucinda (19:02):
Right.
Caroline (19:02):
death do us part.
And even those sometimes yourealize might not work out for
you, but if you make the bestdecision with the data that you
have and you try it, if somehowit doesn't work out so long as
you have a story as to why, whatyou learned, and now what you'd
like to do.
Then it becomes better.
(19:23):
But these people who are tryingto, at 15 or 18, or even 22 or
25, plan out the whole rest oftheir career.
Lucinda (19:32):
Yeah, it's not gonna go like that.
Caroline (19:35):
It's overwhelming, you know, just, just over,
Lucinda (19:40):
I love what you said too about it not being a
marriage because, People dothink that they take a job and
they can't leave it And theysay, well, I need to give them
like two months notice.
And I said, give them a weeknotice.
I because I had one job.
Well, like the, the job with thewarehouseman rumor, when I told
them I was leaving, I gave mytwo week notice and they said,
(20:02):
your last day will be tomorrow.
So they can fire you, uh, layyou off, say goodbye like that.
There's no legal stuff, so don'tfeel bad.
You know about it's not amarriage.
Don't feel bad about quitting ajob.
They can, they can let you go.
Caroline (20:21):
Yeah, and especially if the environment becomes toxic
because Yeah.
But, but we have this,
Lucinda (20:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Caroline (20:29):
and believing that we matter and believing that we are
a work family and that essentialpart of the team.
Lucinda (20:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Not family.
Caroline (20:41):
Yeah.
And then that's all fine andgood until you're at the wrong
side of a
Lucinda (20:46):
Yes.
Caroline (20:48):
or a toxic
Lucinda (20:51):
Right.
Caroline (20:51):
So,
Lucinda (20:52):
And I totally learned about, you know, mergers and,
and things like that, andlayoffs and and things I didn't
even know existed.
And you can't take thosepersonally.
I mean, you just have to go,okay, it's a business.
And, and if you're leaving,that's also business.
And, and I try to tell peoplethat like they're, they're
running a business.
If they don't need you anymore,they're gonna let you go.
(21:14):
And you have to think of yourown business.
This is my business.
Yeah.
It's business.
Caroline (21:20):
So you.
You ended up getting your PhDalso, how did that work out I
mean, it's like you ended upgetting your PhD as though you
got a sandwich, but like how didyou decide to wanna get PhD?
Lucinda (21:37):
Well, the company I was working for back in, in the
Midwest they, how can I putthis?
They were very discriminatory.
And first they got rid of theone hispanic person and then
(21:57):
they got rid of the one blackperson.
And then I was the only female,and I knew I was on the list and
they made up things to get ridof these diverse candidates.
And what they did for me in mycase, was that they decided to
(22:18):
make a new rule that youcouldn't get promoted unless you
had a PhD.
And I did not have a PhD andmost of the men, almost all the
men had PhDs.
There were a couple who didn't,but for some reason they got to
stay.
Well, they decided to stay.
I mean, you could stay, but therule was you weren't gonna get
(22:39):
promoted.
So I left.
I was like, okay, I get it.
One, I knew I was on thechopping block from this whole
diversity situation and two, youknow, if they're gonna make
rules like that, I just said,fine, I'll go get one.
So I left and I went you know, Ifound it one of the university
(23:00):
people I'd been working with onmy research at that company
would said he'd take me on as agrad student.
And interestingly, the, Idecided to ask the company.
That, that I was working for tofund my PhD if I worked on a
project of their, with theirnew, some of their new and they
(23:22):
did.
And so they funded it and I wasone of the few graduates who
came with their own money.
And it was very liberating.
Caroline (23:31):
wow.
Lucinda (23:32):
Again, a lesson, lesson is like, don't be afraid to ask
for things.
Because you never know.
I mean, it was really ballsy ofme to ask for after they were
kind of
Caroline (23:44):
Absolutely.
But if they said no, you wouldbe at the same
Lucinda (23:47):
Exactly,
Caroline (23:47):
what?
They said yes.
And then you were able to thatwhat a win-win for them to have
some great research for you tobe able to achieve this goal.
And kind of be like,
Lucinda (24:02):
yeah.
Caroline (24:02):
ha, ha,
Lucinda (24:03):
Satisfying.
And then because I had my ownmoney, I didn't have to work
while I was in grad school, so Ididn't have to be a graduate
assistant or a teachingassistant or anything'cause I
was funded
Caroline (24:15):
You got to focus.
That's so cool.
Lucinda (24:18):
And I got the focus and I got done in two and a half
years.
So it was, it was fast.
I wanted to get back in theworkforce.
I wanted, I missed my salary forsure'cause being a grad student
was not the same.
And, afterwards after I got myPhD, there were quite a lot of
job opportunities,
Caroline (24:37):
And you
Lucinda (24:38):
so
Caroline (24:38):
company and you were there a while and rose up
through the ranks.
Lucinda (24:45):
yeah.
Caroline (24:45):
A bit.
How did, how did that work?
How did you, or I guess when youwent into that company, what
kind of a position did you haveand then how did you progress to
get more opportunity?
Lucinda (24:58):
this is kind of another lesson learned because I joined
the company because they wereworking on chemicals in corn and
soybeans, which are the biggestcrops in the world, you know?
So I was like, oh yeah, I wannawork on corn and soybeans.
So I get there and they said,you're gonna work in rice.
And I was like, what?
You know, this was an agreementwe made.
(25:19):
But then I started looking intorice and I saw what an
incredible international crop itis.
And I saw all theseinternational opportunities for
me to work with researchers inJapan and the Philippines and
Thailand and South America and,you know, all over the world.
And so I turned this into like ahuge program.
I, no one had been working inrice in that company, and I
(25:41):
turned it into something.
And, and that's another thing,you know, like if you can look
at an opportunity that lookskind of tiny, but, but there's
ways to make it into somethingbigger, you know.
It was
Caroline (25:56):
Did you get to travel to all those places?
Lucinda (25:59):
Oh, oh, yeah.
I traveled extensively andpretty much from in my other
job, I traveled all over theUnited States, the the Midwest
one, and this job, I startedtraveling internationally and I
have been ever since.
And it was just a wonderful, youknow, wonderful, amazing
experience.
Caroline (26:17):
Was it hard to get them because some companies had
differing viewpoints.
And some travel opportunitieswent to the other gender.
How did you overcome,
Lucinda (26:32):
Yes, absolutely.
Caroline (26:33):
was that even a thing or was this company more open or
how, how did that work out?
Lucinda (26:38):
Oh no, it, it was definitely an effort because
their original response was, oh,we can't, we can't send a woman
to Japan because you know, it'sa really sexist country and they
don't know what to do with womenand stuff like that.
And I lobbied and lobbied for itand having one thing I learned
(26:59):
was having a PhD in foreigncountries, they're much more
respected, so it took away a lotof the, I was sort of a neuter.
I was not.
There was'cause other placesthat like call you miss or
misses or you know, but theycall you Dr.
Jackson.
And Dr.
Jackson did just fine with othermen who respected PhDs much more
(27:25):
than they do in the UnitedStates.
And the same thing was true inSouth America and in all parts
of Asia and places that I, thatI went.
I didn't have, I never was ableto get an international
assignment because I wanted tolive overseas and I thought Hong
Kong would be perfect.
And by this time I did have achild and there was also
(27:47):
discrimination against singleparents.
And they thought, oh, you, theyhad a million excuses why I
couldn't do that.
But it was, I thought it wouldbe perfect because I could
afford childcare in Hong Kongand, and it's a city and, you
know, sophisticated and stuffand you can work the whole
region.
And I tried for all of my careerto get an assignment and I got,
(28:12):
they really coveted thoseassignments, And they gave'em to
men.
So there were a few women when Iquit working in the corporate
world that had gotteninternational assignments.
But they were few.
And, and I got to the pointwhere I was when I got farther
up in my career.
I was a huge, I fought at a lotof personnel meetings for those
(28:36):
women to get those internationalassignments'cause I never was
able to do it.
They're I mean, in lots of ways.
And they pay like one and a halfsalary and you get, you know,
lots of vacation to go home andpaid trips home and it, very
lucrative and so they, wannagive them to women.
So, but that's why I joined thePeace Corps.
(29:00):
I was like, I'm gonna get memyself, my own international
assignment.
And I did so.
Caroline (29:05):
Ah, yes.
Yes.
And I definitely, I do wanna, Iwanna absolutely spend time
talking about that, but I'mcurious, when you were in the
industry, how did you shift fromindividual contributor level
position to leader manager?
Because then you ended up withquite some phenomenal positions.
(29:28):
Lots of responsibility, lots ofpeople.
But like how did you take thatleap?
Lucinda (29:34):
it started by speaking up as an individual contributor
talking in meetings.
Saying things not just sittingthere.
I had to learn.
I, you know, I practiced infront of the mirror, like, how
was I gonna say something?
And a lot of times I'd write itdown so I, you know, if my
heart's beating while I speakup.
(29:55):
In my first meeting I learned tospeak up a lot.
I learned to I learned tocommunicate.
I practiced speaking, I gave alot of presentations.
Whenever I could, I gave apresentation at a conference or
to a group of upper management.
I would volunteer.
Like, no, I'll, you know, a lotof, like I said, a lot of
(30:15):
scientists don't wanna talk
Caroline (30:18):
Yeah.
Lucinda (30:18):
be out there, and I would say I would, I'll do it.
And that gave me kind of a, aplatform.
And I also wrote articles and Idid some publications when I was
in companies, even though that'shard to do, I published some
things.
I partnered with academic peopleto publish and those kind of
credentials, they kind of helpedme stand out.
(30:41):
And then when, um, and I alsoreally like people and I made
friends with a lot of people inmy companies and they saw that
and when some team, like a firstthing is like a team leader
position opened up, I appliedand I got I got one And
Caroline (31:05):
Wow.
Lucinda (31:06):
group starting with like five employees.
And then another, i'd seeanother, you kind of prove
yourself as a leader and thatyou could handle.
A budget, a business planning,forecasting, human resources,
you know, that kinda stuff.
You start having to fire people,hire people.
(31:27):
And then I took another job thathad 13 people reporting to me
and just so gradually then therewas, you know, a hundred and
then four hundreds, and that'show it, that's how it went.
One little step at a time.
Caroline (31:46):
So step by step?
Yeah.
So little each one.
You just proved your keptdelivered, did a great job and
made yourself more visible forthe next opportunities and, just
boldly kept putting your name in
Lucinda (32:03):
Put your name in and I didn't get all of'em for sure.
I didn't get all the jobs, youknow, but You get, you find one
and and then I learned the ropesthat you do a lot of advocating
for yourself.
You go around to people and say,
Caroline (32:20):
Hmm.
Lucinda (32:21):
first you find out who's on the selection team.
Then you go talk to each ofthose people.
You make it a 15 minuteappointment with them and say,
Caroline, you know, this job'scoming up.
You know, I really think I'd bea good candidate and here's why
and I really appreciate yoursupport, if it's possible.
And then you could, you know,sometimes you didn't get it, the
person would go like, there's,you know, Bob, he's been around
(32:43):
for a long time, and you know,he's, and I go, yeah, I know,
but, and then you just let'emknow that you're interested not
in a creepy way, in a nice waylike that.
I want, I really want this.
I'd love the opportunity, youknow, I understand that, you
know, you've known Bob a longtime, but I understand that but
you know, maybe the next time,you know, I'm interested in this
(33:04):
kind of move.
Caroline (33:07):
And even that, yeah, that, that process beyond the
process.
and the ability to positivelydifferentiate yourself and kind
of make a little bit your ownpath that that's
Lucinda (33:19):
Right.
Caroline (33:20):
not a lot of people do that.
They think, oh, I have to apply,and then I'm gonna wait, and
then they might contact me.
And meanwhile there are peoplewho are
Lucinda (33:32):
Yeah.
Caroline (33:33):
going in the side
Lucinda (33:35):
Yes.
Do the pre-work.
Caroline (33:37):
and just exploring.
Yeah, those are great, great,great tips.
Lucinda (33:41):
I
Caroline (33:41):
Yeah, like networking and and all of those things.
Yeah.
Very, very interesting.
So a couple themes come up.
Self-advocacy, communication,building communication skills.
This writing thing is reallyinteresting because you've now
written a few books and one of'em is gonna be about the Peace
(34:03):
Corps, but when did writingbecome on your radar as
something that you enjoyeddoing?
Because that's, I believe,another skillset that you have
beyond a typical scientist.
You have phenomenal captivatingwriting skills and for everyone
(34:23):
who doesn't know, there are twobooks, it's just a girl.
There's a whole bunch of storybeyond the beautiful highlights
in a bio and project escape.
Both of these are phenomenalbooks.
I had heard from anotherAmerican Chemical Society career
consultant
Lucinda (34:41):
Aw, it's nice.
Caroline (34:42):
That he had read Project Escape and couldn't put
it down.
And I was like, oh, okay, okay.
And so, but I thought, well, I'mgonna start at the beginning.
I'm, I'm a girl.
I'll start with just a girl.
And to realize a lot of themesthat you had to overcome and
challenges of harassment and,being treated differently in
(35:06):
some really awkward situationswere underneath all of these
rising the corporate ranks.
I was completely blown
Lucinda (35:14):
away,
Caroline (35:14):
surprised.
I shouldn't have been surprisedbut resilience and this amazing
writing.
So back to this how did you getinterested in writing?
Where did you learn that?
Lucinda (35:25):
Always liked it in school, English class in high
school.
I really liked it.
Uh, I had a poetry phase.
I went through, of course, in myteens.
And, and I always liked to Ienjoyed writing my thesis, my
master's thesis.
I enjoyed writing my PhD thesis.
And, and then when I got into towork, I really enjoyed putting
(35:47):
together a story of what we'daccomplished.
And I, and for work I often usepictures because, you know,
they're more, a lot of peopleare visual.
So I'd find some really cool,I'd take a lot of pictures and
put and I used to make these onepage things I'd sent kind of
like, flyers that I'd send outto people saying like, oh, we're
(36:11):
doing this amazing work inremote sensing right now, and
look at these pictures.
And I'd show some of thesesatellite pictures we had of our
facilities.
And I'd make it like, this is,this is some tech, a new
technology, but look how weapply it and look how cool this
is, and translating that fromthe technical to the practical
(36:34):
and to non-scientists becamekind of a specialty for me and I
really enjoyed doing it.
And that's what I could do formy employees too, because they'd
have some amazing thing they'reworking on.
They discovered, you know, somewhole new process and yet they
weren't getting it out there topeople.
I would like work with them andlike gimme some pictures and,
(36:54):
and then I could take it to themanagement teams and say, look
what these people are doing andlook how cool this is.
And then everybody would golike, oh, wow.
And, and put it into languagethat they understand instead,
instead of saying like, oh, it'sthese satellites can see 500
miles.
That's as if you could see fromright where we're standing to LA
Imagine if you could see thatfar.
(37:16):
And do that kind of stuff thatthey go, oh yeah, these are
these people that are nottechnical.
Right?
And so I really enjoyed thatkind of sharing.
And I'd always kind of kept itup and like I said, I did
publications while I was incompanies, and a lot of people
did.
And they said I was too hard.
You know, everything'sproprietary.
You can't get it out there.
(37:37):
You have to work with thelawyers.
But I worked with the lawyersand I got some stuff written and
like I said, I co-authoredthings a few book chapters with
people who are writing books andum, yeah, it's just a way of
communicating.
Caroline (38:32):
You're really phenomenal.
It's, a, wonderful, amazinggift.
So I would encourage who hearsthis.
The very next thing you need todo if you don't already have
them, is get just a Girl and getProject Escape
Lucinda (38:45):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you so much.
Caroline (38:52):
But tell us about Project Escape.
How did you decide to leave thisamazing, like what was your last
What was the,
Lucinda (39:03):
I was the head of health, environment and safety
for the corporation.
Mm-hmm.
Caroline (39:10):
And you just decide, Hey, about I leave all of this
behind and I know, I'll get thatinternational assignment and
I'll join the Peace Corps?
Like
Lucinda (39:26):
Well, that's when I started doing my own personal
vision statement and thinkingabout what my career was
lacking.
And then I came up with my corevalues.
So my personal vision statementwas, create a remarkable next
act.
'Cause I've been in a corporateAmerica for 40 years and I was
(39:48):
saying, I'm not, what should Ido next?
You know, I'm, I'm a littlebored, I wanna do something
else.
And so that's when I reallystarted personally working on
having this vision of create aremarkable next act.
I said, yeah, I want.
I want my life to be remarkable.
You know?
That's what I want.
And I, and I'll, and I use theword create because I want to, I
(40:09):
can create that for myself.
You know, nobody's gonna give methat or
Caroline (40:12):
Yeah.
Lucinda (40:13):
job was gonna make, you know, make that for me.
So then getting into my own corevalues I saw one of'em was was
freedom and adventure.
And I wanted more freedom than Ihad in the, as you have in a
job.
Right so I thought and then Ihad noble purpose was one of my
authentic self, which I feltlike I hadn't been thoroughly,
(40:36):
you know, completely incorporate America.
you
Caroline (40:39):
Yeah, you.
have to fit in a little bit,right?
You have to be who you gottaplay the role.
Sadly,
Lucinda (40:45):
Right.
Caroline (40:46):
lot of people are scared to be themselves, or if
you do show yourself, you'regonna get judged or some adverse
reaction for
Lucinda (40:54):
One man, one man told me I had Democrat hair and yeah.
Yeah, so I
Caroline (41:00):
What, like what does that even mean?
what does that even mean?
Lucinda (41:06):
I straightened it.
Straightened it.
more so it looked more new.
Not Democrat.
Caroline (41:14):
It's hair.
It's hair.
Yeah.
Lucinda (41:19):
I don't know.
You know, people make weird, Butnow I can wear my hair anyway I
want.
But anyway, yeah.
I just decided to branch outmore and do that for myself.
So those values really helpedme.
that's why in your work,Caroline, you also talked a lot
about people's core values and Ididn't, I really hadn't done
(41:41):
that assessment.
I mean, here I was really latein my career and I hadn't really
said like, is this everything?
For me and I found these otherthings, you know, about
authentic self that, that, likeI was just mentioning, I wanted
to be more authentic.
I wanted to just really find outwho I am.
And I've been able to do thatand it's just been so fun.
(42:04):
So fun.
And so the Peace Corps was oneof'em.
It was one of those like, I wantmy international assignment.
Caroline (42:11):
And you, and you convinced your husband to also.
Lucinda (42:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Caroline (42:17):
Go.
And I think that's another thingtoo.
You find a cause that you wantto champion and then you will
bring others on board.
And those who love youinevitably end up going along.
But without spoiling the book,because it is a must read, give
(42:40):
us the snapshot of how did itreally go and what did you
learn?
Lucinda (42:45):
It did not go well.
Which again, another lifelesson.
You know your best plans.
Like, this is it man, and thenit, it doesn't, but in
retrospect, I wouldn't change itfor the world.
Okay.
Caroline (43:01):
Oh wow.
Lucinda (43:01):
So, It didn't, I got assignment from my husband too.
And the assignments we got didnot equal the job description.
We were not,
Caroline (43:10):
Yeah.
Lucinda (43:10):
not paid properly for the economy of the nation, and
we became how would I say this?
I mean, they, it's a very classoriented society.
The island we went to, thecountry we went to, and we were
on the bottom rung of thesociety, and so we were not
respected and because we were sopoor.
(43:33):
And they had cars and washingmachines and all this stuff.
And we were living in povertyand it was really difficult.
It was really difficult'causeour jobs were professional, So
we went to organizations who areprofessional, but they had like
suits and nice clothes and I waswearing, like, they told me not
to bring anything good.
(43:54):
So, I mean, all I had was likelittle dress, you know, a little
flimsy dress and some some flipflops.
And I didn't have any money tobuy in the Peace Corps.
You're not supposed to spendyour own money.
So, I didn't have any money tobuy any clothes and they all
wore makeup and I didn't evenbring makeup.
I mean, it was really difficultbecause of the, that disconnect.
Caroline (44:17):
And how did that work on your mission of finding your
authentic self?
Lucinda (44:23):
It is just another lesson about who I am.
I guess I grew stronger.
It really developed my sense ofhumor and the biggest reward
from it was my husband and Ifell in love there.
Caroline (44:42):
Oh, that's amazing.
Lucinda (44:43):
Nothing like hardship to bring you together
Caroline (44:48):
And how long had you guys been married at that point?
Lucinda (44:52):
Almost 30 years.
Caroline (44:55):
Wow.
So you're saying there's hopebecause that's right.
Because I don't know about yourmarriage, but I'd love my
husband.
He's amazing.
I'm sure he is gonna listen tothis.
And there's, there's phases ofthere's, there's phases of like
excitement and adventure andresponsibilities then and work
(45:17):
and priorities.
And sometimes you're driftingand other times you're, you're
drawing closer.
So, that's amazing that thatexperience became a drawing
closer event.
So I guess, but honey, we're notgoing to the Peace Corps.
Maybe we'll go on a cruise orsomething.
Lucinda (45:34):
We learned never to blame each other.
And he did not blame me.
He did not blame me for thiskind of fiasco.
And we both learned to say, Iknow you're doing the best you
can, honey.
I know you are.
I know you.
We do that to this day.
We still we talk about thatperiod of our marriage and what
we learned and we would stillrepeat lines that we, we used
(45:56):
during that time to, you know,keep going.
Caroline (46:01):
Oh, wow.
Now another theme throughoutsome of your books that I
thought, oh wow, that'sdifferent.
I didn't know that.
Maybe I should do that now, isanytime there was a stress or a
challenge or something.
Yeah.
Stress or challenge.
You wrote about multipleinstances of exercise,
(46:23):
meditation, some sort of healthyoutlet.
How did that come about?
Like where, where did, because Ididn't do that.
I would just stress and obsessor, and I feel like some other
people do it.
Like you'll stress, you'reobsessed, you're gonna check
out, you're going to try tocompensate with some sort of
substance, but yet what youcompensated with was good for
(46:47):
you.
Lucinda (46:47):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Caroline (46:49):
How did, how did you get that nugget?
And for anybody else that didn'tget it, Hey, guess what?
If you're stressed, you can goexercise or you can even
meditate and do yoga likewaiting for a plane in the
airport.
Like what?
Lucinda (47:03):
Yeah.
I think I learned that prettyyoung.
My dad as much of a misogynistthat he was, I picked up some
things from him.
He used to stand on his headevery day.
As long as I can remember and Inow also stand on my head every
day and he always told me like,don't stop doing, don't stop
(47:27):
moving because it's hard tostart again.
So somehow I took that prettyyoung and I, when I started
doing any sport or anything, Iwould just keep doing it and not
stop because I didn't want toget, so, I mean, I've had to
modify, you know, now, now I doyoga and swimming, biking, I
(47:48):
mean, stuff that, you know, Idon't play rugby or anything,
but, I've learned that for meit's kind of essential, is, you
know, it's endorphins.
And then this part of thisauthentic self stuff that, that
I I learned and really starteddoing.
After I left the corporate worldand was in the Peace Corps and
then afterwards was spendingtime on my spiritual side, which
(48:11):
I hadn't had a lot ofopportunity to do in my life.
And for me that's meditation.
And I've really learned, I mean,I love it.
I've become almost a, I mean, Idon't wanna become evangelist
about it, but it's so helpfulfor me.
And so I meditate every day andI didn't really used to know how
(48:33):
to do that, but in the last sixor seven years I've learned.
How to do it.
And, it's just made such adifference in my life.
I wish I'd, I wish I'd known howto do it sooner.
I toyed with it, but I didn'treally think it was for me.
Caroline (48:48):
And giving space to allow what, the universe, God,
whoever, is wanting
Lucinda (48:55):
Yeah.
Caroline (48:56):
to move through you we spend so much of our time being
a human doing, it's hard to beat the being.
Yeah.
Lucinda (49:05):
Yeah.
Yes.
It really is, and it takes sometime and attention that I never
gave myself, and it's what I'm,and now it's, I feel so
fortunate to have discoveredthis and been able to give this
to myself in this time in mylife.
I can honestly say I have neverbeen happier.
Caroline (49:26):
Oh, that's amazing.
What is next for you?
I know ACS is coming up in a ina little bit of time here, I
think you're giving a talk orgiving a course.
What's, what are you doing atACS ACS is American Chemical
Society, so
Lucinda (49:41):
Right.
A great organization that Idiscovered through my husband,
who's been a member for 55 yearsor something.
I was not a member I was amember of other organizations,
but not this one.
But, I discovered it.
He sent me a that they werehaving a, a session at one of
the meetings a few years agoabout retirement there's a
(50:02):
senior chemist group and I hadjust written a Project Escape
about what to do after, youknow, your career or your set,
set career and so I was able to,I sent an abstract in and got my
paper accepted.
So I went to the meeting andthat's how I met.
I met everybody and kind of grewfrom there.
(50:23):
So now I'm doing a lot of thissimilar kind of stuff that
Caroline is doing.
Yours is more organized thanmine.
I have, I have, my own.
Caroline (50:34):
I don't know how to make something simple.
I was just talking to a clientearlier.
I was like, I'm a specialist,and so it's gonna be special and
it's gonna be thorough and allthe stuff,
Lucinda (50:45):
Still do that, because I think it's just a world.
Wow.
And, and it's, and now I'velearned, I've specialized in
scientists, so I do counselingfor scientists, Retired or
mid-career, and I also do forhigh school students and I'm
really enjoying that.
I have, I just did one last weekand I have another one coming up
(51:07):
Friday.
And it's so hopeful seeing thesejust like 15, 16 years old kids,
Who are interested in STEM andsee what their, the last week we
did one on you knows thesereally complicated genetic
process, new processes andstuff.
It's it's so interesting and,seeing these kids grasp it and
(51:29):
then, and then we do a lot ofcareer.
You know, I give career andcounseling to them, so I'm doing
a whole gambit now.
But specializing in STEM fromkids all the way to old people
because there's tons forscientists to do after they
don't wanna work for somebodyelse until I started my own
(51:49):
company.
Caroline (51:50):
How do people find you?
Lucinda (51:52):
Oh.
mostly on my websiteLucindajackson.com and I do
public speaking.
So I advertise a lot onLinkedIn.
I guess that's my main media.
Also Facebook'cause that's thewhere a lot of my clientele
seems to hang out.
My, my advice is pick two socialmedia platforms and, and go
(52:15):
there.
And I post regularly and that'sthe kind of thing I do to keep
my business going.
But a lot of it's word of mouth.
Usually when I give a publicspeaking event, then people come
and talk to me
Caroline (52:26):
I like to focus on success and being authentic and
authentic self and authenticsuccess.
And to me, I say authenticsuccess is however you define
it.
How do you define authenticsuccess for you in this chapter?
Lucinda (52:41):
For me, it's for sure my core values, which are
success is having a noblepurpose.
Success is being authentic,being myself, not pretending to
be somebody else, just beingmyself and see how that turns
out.
It's about freedom, personalfreedom, adventure, a grasping
(53:05):
adventure.
It's about love.
I used to, I had a, after thePeace Corps, I changed one of my
values to romance because we'dhad such a great time and, and
now I've expanded it just tolove.
It sounds kind of sappy, but
Caroline (53:22):
No, it's It's beautiful.
It's absolutely beautiful.
Well, thank you so much Lucinda,for sharing more of your story
and um, we'll put the links forthe books and your LinkedIn and
our show notes.
But I appreciate you so much forcoming and
Lucinda (53:36):
Thank you.
It's been a blast talking toyou.
Lucinda continues to lead withclarity, courage, and care.
Her story reflects what'spossible when you keep growing
on purpose.
This moment in your life holdsmomentum.
Everything you've lived andlearned becomes part of what
(53:57):
you're able to build from now.
You are equipped.
You are ready, and your nextsuccess is already unfolding.
For free tools and guidance tosupport your next chapter, Visit
nextsuccesscareers.com.
Please Share this episode withsomeone reflecting on their own
transition and follow the showfor more conversations that help
(54:19):
you move forward with clarityand confidence.
To learn more about Lucinda, herspeaking and her books, remember
to visit lucindajackson.com.
Your next success is alreadyunfolding.
Keep going.
You're not done yet.
Caroline (54:37):
Thanks for listening to Your Next Success with Dr.
Caroline Sangal.
Remember, authentic success isyours to define and includes
aligning your career to supportthe life you want.
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