May 7, 2025 • 23 mins
If you're stuck after graduation or questioning your career path, you're not broken — you're becoming. In this episode, we unpack the messy middle of career transitions and how to move from confusion to clarity.
Career Clarity Begins in the Messy Middle
If you’re questioning your direction, your job, or your definition of success… you’re not stuck — you’re in the messy middle. In this episode, Dr. Caroline Sangal explores what this space really means, why it matters, and how to begin finding clarity in the unknown.
Welcome to the Messy Middle — the space between no longer and not yet.
If you’ve ever found yourself thinking:
“I don’t hate my job… but something feels off.”
“I’ve outgrown where I am, but I don’t know where I’m going.”
“I want more, but I don’t know what that means.”
…then this episode is for you.
🎧 Inside, you’ll learn:
• What the Messy Middle actually is (and how to spot it)
• Why clarity often begins right here — in the pause
• 3 steps to shift from confusion to confidence
• Tools to help you reconnect with your natural abilities, values, and vision
Download the free Navigating Career Transitions Workbook
Let this be your permission to stop rushing and start listening — to yourself.
You are not broken. You’re just becoming.
Keywords:
career transitions, stuck after graduation, messy middle, STEM careers, job search mindset, PhD to industry, career clarity, early career advice
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Watch full video episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@NextSuccessMethod/
Learn more about Next Success www.nextsuccesscareers.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
What if I told you that the mostimportant part of your journey
isn't when you graduate or whenyou land a job or when you
finally feel successful.
It's this part, the messymiddle, the part nobody warns
you about.
The part where you wonder ifeverything you did even
(00:25):
mattered.
The part where you doubt ifyou'll ever get where you'd
hoped you'd be by now.
If you're stuck there right nowfeeling lost, frustrated, even
angry.
Stay with me because today weare not just going to talk about
how to survive the messy middle.
We're gonna talk about how togrow through it.
Caroline (00:51):
Have you ever wondered, is this it?
That question is the beginningof Your Next Success.
I am Dr.
Caroline Sangal, and thispodcast is your space to pause,
reflect, and create the careerand life you were made for.
(01:12):
We explore real stories,intentional transitions, and
practical insights to help youstep into alignment, purpose and
peace.
Tune in and begin your NextSuccess.
You spent years doing what youwere supposed to do.
You stayed focused.
(01:32):
You gave up nights, weekends,parts of yourself believing it
would be worth it, and nowinstead of standing at the
finish line, arms raised invictory, you are stuck in the
in-between, in the messy middle.
(01:53):
You have the degree, you havethe skills, you have the
experience, the drive, thedreams, and yet the
opportunities you imagined, theclear next steps you worked so
hard for.
They're not showing up in theway that you thought they would.
(02:14):
And if you are wondering, if itwas all for nothing, stay with
me because you are not failing.
You're just in the part that noone talks about.
You've been told to follow thepath, get the degree, build the
resume, do all the right things,and success will follow.
(02:38):
But if you've done that and youstill feel stuck, disoriented,
or unfulfilled, that's not yourfailure.
That's the failure of thenarrative that we were sold.
See, here's the truth.
Graduation isn't the finishline.
It is the starting block of awhole new race, and no one
(03:03):
prepares you for howdisorienting that race can feel.
The goals you chased suddenlydon't satisfy you, and the
clarity you expected vanishesand the confidence you thought
would come with achievement.
It feels fragile at best.
(03:24):
So what do most people do?
They double down.
They work harder.
They try to prove their worth bydoing more, but doing more of
what doesn't align only gets youmore misaligned.
So here's the breakthrough.
Success isn't about getting tothe next milestone.
(03:48):
It's about learning how tonavigate the space in between
the part where you are no longerwho you were and yet not yet who
you are becoming.
This is the messy middle.
This messy middle is notfailure.
It is not a detour.
(04:08):
It is the transformation.
You don't need to be fixed.
You're unfolding.
And when you start seeingyourself through that lens, you
stop fighting the season you'rein and start growing through it.
Honestly, nobody even talksabout the messy middle.
(04:32):
And why don't they talk aboutthe messy middle?
Because they just as soon forgetit and think that it never
happened.
When you went to grad school, oryou chose to start and enter on
that journey, you did it becauseyou wanted the end goal.
You wanted the PhD, the MBA, theadvanced degree, and you chose
(04:54):
that because you had seen otherswho had it, or you had heard
about others who had thataccomplishment and you viewed
them as successful and they weredoing well.
They had a good job, they had agood title, maybe they had a
great house, maybe they had awonderful family, and they were
able to provide for the lifethat you thought you wanted.
(05:16):
And so you embark and you enterinto that journey, and then you
graduate or you finish the thingand then you try to go look for
your next job, your role, theone that you should be able to
get with a PhD.
And it's hard.
It's really hard.
(05:36):
And then you start questioningyourself and you're thinking,
wait.
Was this all a mistake?
Was this all for nothing?
And now I've got that thing, butI'm not getting the result that
I wanted.
Why is it, and how is it that Ihave the PhD now and I'm not
getting the job?
(05:57):
And then not only am I notgetting the job, but as I look
for jobs and I'm very thoroughand analytical about what the
job says that it wants, and thenI think I have to have that
exactly.
And it says.
They want somebody with three tofive years experience and you're
coming fresh out of school andyou think, oh gosh, they wanted
(06:21):
somebody with three to fiveyears of work experience,
industry experience, and I don'thave that.
So either you don't apply for itor you do and you get passed
over because you didn't havethree to five years experience.
I remember this part.
(06:41):
And I remember when I finallydid get an interview for the
job, I ended up getting, it hadsaid, yes, we want three to five
years experience.
And when I was talking with theHR professional on the other end
of the phone, I asked her, Hey,can you help me understand how
(07:03):
is it that every job is askingfor three to five years of
experience?
But then how is anyone eversupposed to get that experience
if someone doesn't hire them andgive them the opportunity to
gain that?
I literally don't understandbecause honestly, I was in grad
(07:24):
school and while I don't haveindustry experience, I tell you
what I do have, I had to take aproblem that no one had solved
before.
And I had to quickly come up tospeed with the historical
literature and take my classesand do my own independent
research solve problems,overcome challenges, deal with
(07:45):
the interactions and theterritorial nature of certain
people using certaininstruments, and me trying to
get my time to do my work.
Getting my results, analyzingthe results, writing them up,
presenting them, answeringquestions, refining my approach,
writing all of that up anddefending.
(08:09):
And now I've earned a degreewhere I am now the foremost
expert on this subject.
And so if I've done it inacademia as a newbie, the first
time I ever did it.
Surely I can do it again inindustry.
I've already proven I can studya subject and I can quickly
(08:30):
become an expert.
So you need somebody to, forexample, that one was fatigue
and fracture of structuraladhesives.
You need someone to understandfatigue and fracture of
structural adhesives.
Awesome.
I can do that.
I'm confident I can do that.
All I need is the opportunity.
All I need is the chance.
(08:53):
So what happened?
I stopped focusing on what Iwanted.
I wanted a job.
I wanted to be successful.
I wanted to have made all ofthat time worth it, and I
started focusing on what theyneeded.
(09:15):
This was a company.
Wanting to embark in a newdirection, wanting to level up,
wanting to all of a sudden dofatigue and fracture mechanics,
and they had never done itbefore.
And so I became the bridge frommy past to their future.
I had to speak in a languagethat they needed to hear to give
(09:38):
them the confidence that I was asafe bet.
See, companies aren't trying tohire somebody if they're risky.
They aren't trying to hiresomebody who makes it very clear
that it's a temporary stoppingpoint on their larger grander
scheme of life.
(09:59):
Oh yeah, I wanna do this jobuntil I can go back and get my
MBA and then I can really do thejob that I want.
No, they don't wanna hear that.
The company doesn't wanna hearany doubt about what you want.
Sure, you do need to figure thatout for yourself.
But when you are puttingyourself in a position in front
(10:20):
of someone who has the abilityto say, go or no about you and
your potential to possibly workthere, you need to fill the need
and fit the mold of the rolethey're looking for.
That's what you need to do toget the opportunity.
(10:42):
Now, do you have to stay thereforever?
No.
It is not a marriage.
It's not till death do us part.
It's till 30, 60, 90 days.
Your performance review, thenext review, every annual review
after that, or whenever thecompany decides that it has to
lay off people, then you may ormay not be on the chopping
(11:03):
block.
You get to do you.
And they get to do what's in thebest interest for them.
Imagine what your life would be like if your career
aligned with who you are, whatyou do best, and actually fueled
the life you want.
At Next Success, we support allages and stages through career
(11:27):
transitions from studentsexploring majors or careers to
job seekers actively searchingor re-imagining their next move
to professionals committed toself-awareness and leadership
growth.
Stay connected and explorewhat's possible at
nextsuccesscareers.com andfollow nextsuccessmethod on
LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram,and Facebook.
(11:54):
You are listening to Your NextSuccess with Dr.
Caroline Sangal.
Let's continue the journey toyour authentic success.
When you are in the midst of atransition and you're ending one
thing and you're wanting to getsomething else in the future,
but that isn't clearly defined,you're doing yourself a
(12:17):
disservice if you're gettingfrustrated by looking at
somebody else who is a few yearsahead of you and then judging
yourself because you're notthere yet.
You're not there yet, you'renot.
You're exactly where you need tobe, and you're here with this
(12:39):
opportunity on purpose, butyou're starting.
You're at the start of the racethey are in the middle.
You will get to the middle, butyou have to get past the start.
You have to get past thisunknowing.
You have to get past this, whatI like to say, the messy middle
in between who you were and whoyou are becoming.
(13:03):
In between that is the messymiddle.
But if you're at the beginningof your career or you're at the
beginning of the next chapter ofyour career, give yourself some
grace.
Let's think about what you dohave.
Let's celebrate where you arebecause you are already
successful.
(13:23):
What you've done in the past toget you to today, that's already
a success, but your nextsuccess, that's what we are here
to work out, your next success,and part of getting to your Next
Success is getting through themessy middle, so let's talk
(13:44):
about that.
Recently I went to the AmericanChemical Society spring meeting
in San Diego.
Now, firstly, this was so coolbecause the last time I had been
to a big full meeting forAmerican Chemical Society, it
was like 20 something years ago,and it was also in San Diego.
(14:09):
So the fact that I was gettingto go back to San Diego, it was
such a full circle moment forme.
But I tell you when I went therethe last time in the middle of
grad school in my early twentieswith a huge ego and thinking, I
had everything all figured out,and I was the greatest bestest
(14:33):
person ever.
And that I was gonna have such awonderful future and I was gonna
be CEO and quickly rise to thetop, and everybody would just be
celebrating and clapping me allthe way.
That's what I thought I wasgonna have.
And now what has my lifeactually done in between then
and now?
(14:55):
It's not like I planned at all.
At all it all, it is not like Iplanned what I thought I wanted
isn't what I got, and honestly,what I got was better than I
could have ever imagined evenwith the struggles, even with
(15:18):
the challenges.
I got to go back to that ACSmeeting as a career consultant.
A career counselor, I got tomeet with many, many people at
all different stages of theircareer and sit across from them
(15:41):
face to face and listen to whatwas happening in their lives in
that moment.
And I got to be present withthem.
And in some cases I got to shifttheir perspective a little bit.
And I got to help them seebeyond the struggle that they're
currently facing.
(16:04):
There were so many people thatwere stuck in the messy middle,
that this is what I chose totalk about for my first podcast
episode.
It's that.
I'm thinking about each one ofthose lovely, amazing
individuals, full of hope andopportunity, and also, let's be
(16:29):
honest, a bit of terror becausethey just spent all this time,
and grad school is coming acrossso many hurdles and it's an
obstacle course, and just whenyou get over one, the course
changes.
It shape shifts, and then youhave to shift and overcome and
adapt.
And when you're in the midst ofthat, like knock you down, knock
(16:50):
you down, knock you down, andyou keep getting up and getting
up and getting up, and now hereyou go to try to find the job.
And all you keep doing isgetting rejected and rejected
and No's.
It's really, really easy forsomeone in that fragile state to
take it personally and insteadof thinking, okay, this is just
(17:13):
not my opportunity.
Cool.
Next.
Then you start taking itinternally and you start
thinking, maybe I am a failure.
Maybe something's wrong with me,because why is it that this is
so difficult?
And the reality is maybesomething just needs to be
tweaked about your resume, ormaybe it needs to be tweaked
(17:33):
about the way that you'reshowing up, or maybe it needs to
be tweaked about your internalmindset and chatter of what's
happening.
And I quickly tried to gainrapport with these wonderful
individuals that I only had infront of me for a short period
of time, and I gave them a safespace.
(17:56):
And honestly, some of them beingactually seen, heard, valued,
understood.
Some of them, it was a safeplace to finally release some of
the emotions and the stress thatthey've been holding and
carrying.
Some cried, okay.
I made people cry.
No, I didn't make people cry.
(18:17):
All right?
I didn't make them cry.
I allowed them the safe space todo that.
Because it's hard whether youare going from grad school to
your first industrial job,whether you're going from being
laid off to your next job,whether you're going from having
to take away time from yourfamily and then wanting to go
(18:37):
back and reenter and refind outyou after you've dedicated so
much time to others, it's hard.
Let's acknowledge that it'shard.
But you can get through it.
And anybody that you've seen onthe other side that you do
admire, they had to get throughit too.
(18:58):
And so what can you do?
You can start asking people alittle bit more about their
journey, a little bit more aboutwhat they went through.
And if they're kind and nice andopen, then they'll share with
you a little bit more.
And then you'll start to get itnormalized and you'll start to
(19:18):
realize that everybody's journeyhas obstacles.
Everyone's.
How many people, how manycelebrities have we seen that
outwardly look successful?
And we thought that they were sogreat.
And we didn't actuallyunderstand their internal
(19:39):
struggle until it was too late.
And so I'm here to helpnormalize a few things.
Life is hard, transitions arehard.
Questioning your career, whatyou're doing, who you are, what
you do best, what you even wantto do.
It's normal.
(19:59):
And for everything that's hard.
There's also challenges that youovercome that are amazing.
You are becoming, you arebecoming who you are, who you're
meant to be.
You have a purpose.
You were put on this earth onpurpose for a purpose only you
(20:20):
can do, and the longer thatyou're settling, or the longer
that you're sitting defeated, orthe longer that you're
questioning and doubting whatyou've done to get to today,
you're keeping yourself fromyour better tomorrow.
And so what we're going to do iswork on what can you do in the
(20:41):
middle.
And so one of the things we saidyou can do in the middle is you
can.
Normalize questioning.
You can acknowledge that you arein a spot and it's a little bit
tricky, and you can also trustand do all the right things to
try to get to your next step andyour Next Success, and so let's
talk more about how that is.
So let's talk about what you cando when you are in the messy
(21:05):
middle.
I want to leave you with morethan just perspective.
I wanna offer you a pathforward, because once you
realize you're not broken,you're just becoming.
You need something to do withthat clarity.
So here are three steps to beginshifting from confusion to
confidence.
(21:25):
Number one, clarify who you are.
Take a step back.
Use tools such as assessments,journaling, or coaching to
reconnect with your naturalabilities, values and vision.
That is the foundation formaking aligned decisions.
Number two, connect with others.
(21:47):
Don't do this alone.
Informational interviews canhelp you learn about what
different careers actually looklike and people love to share
their stories when asked theright way.
Number three, craft your story.
Your story is more than a listof experiences.
Think about the themes that runthrough your journey, the
(22:09):
curiosity, the persistence, theability to adapt and solve
problems, connect those threadsto the work you want to do next,
and speak from a place ofclarity and alignment.
You are not broken, you're notbehind.
You are not a failure.
(22:29):
You are in the process ofbecoming.
If this episode resonated withyou, subscribe, share it with a
friend, leave a review.
It helps others find the showand reminds them that they are
not alone either.
If you want extra support, feelfree to grab the free Navigating
(22:50):
Career Transitions workbooklinked in the show notes or
reach out.
Let's figure this out together.
Until next time, keep going.
You're not done yet.
My name is Dr.
Caroline Sangal.
Thank you for being part of yourNext Success.
Thanks for listening to Your Next Success with Dr.
Caroline Sangal.
(23:10):
Remember, authentic success isyours to define and includes
aligning your career to supportthe life you want.
What if I told you that the mostimportant part of your journey
isn't when you graduate or whenyou land a job or when you
finally feel successful.
It's this part, the messymiddle, the part nobody warns
you about.
The part where you wonder ifeverything you did even
(00:25):
mattered.
The part where you doubt ifyou'll ever get where you'd
hoped you'd be by now.
If you're stuck there right nowfeeling lost, frustrated, even
angry.
Stay with me because today weare not just going to talk about
how to survive the messy middle.
We're gonna talk about how togrow through it.
Caroline (00:51):
Have you ever wondered, is this it?
That question is the beginningof Your Next Success.
I am Dr.
Caroline Sangal, and thispodcast is your space to pause,
reflect, and create the careerand life you were made for.
(01:12):
We explore real stories,intentional transitions, and
practical insights to help youstep into alignment, purpose and
peace.
Tune in and begin your NextSuccess.
You spent years doing what youwere supposed to do.
You stayed focused.
(01:32):
You gave up nights, weekends,parts of yourself believing it
would be worth it, and nowinstead of standing at the
finish line, arms raised invictory, you are stuck in the
in-between, in the messy middle.
(01:53):
You have the degree, you havethe skills, you have the
experience, the drive, thedreams, and yet the
opportunities you imagined, theclear next steps you worked so
hard for.
They're not showing up in theway that you thought they would.
(02:14):
And if you are wondering, if itwas all for nothing, stay with
me because you are not failing.
You're just in the part that noone talks about.
You've been told to follow thepath, get the degree, build the
resume, do all the right things,and success will follow.
(02:38):
But if you've done that and youstill feel stuck, disoriented,
or unfulfilled, that's not yourfailure.
That's the failure of thenarrative that we were sold.
See, here's the truth.
Graduation isn't the finishline.
It is the starting block of awhole new race, and no one
(03:03):
prepares you for howdisorienting that race can feel.
The goals you chased suddenlydon't satisfy you, and the
clarity you expected vanishesand the confidence you thought
would come with achievement.
It feels fragile at best.
(03:24):
So what do most people do?
They double down.
They work harder.
They try to prove their worth bydoing more, but doing more of
what doesn't align only gets youmore misaligned.
So here's the breakthrough.
Success isn't about getting tothe next milestone.
(03:48):
It's about learning how tonavigate the space in between
the part where you are no longerwho you were and yet not yet who
you are becoming.
This is the messy middle.
This messy middle is notfailure.
It is not a detour.
(04:08):
It is the transformation.
You don't need to be fixed.
You're unfolding.
And when you start seeingyourself through that lens, you
stop fighting the season you'rein and start growing through it.
Honestly, nobody even talksabout the messy middle.
(04:32):
And why don't they talk aboutthe messy middle?
Because they just as soon forgetit and think that it never
happened.
When you went to grad school, oryou chose to start and enter on
that journey, you did it becauseyou wanted the end goal.
You wanted the PhD, the MBA, theadvanced degree, and you chose
(04:54):
that because you had seen otherswho had it, or you had heard
about others who had thataccomplishment and you viewed
them as successful and they weredoing well.
They had a good job, they had agood title, maybe they had a
great house, maybe they had awonderful family, and they were
able to provide for the lifethat you thought you wanted.
(05:16):
And so you embark and you enterinto that journey, and then you
graduate or you finish the thingand then you try to go look for
your next job, your role, theone that you should be able to
get with a PhD.
And it's hard.
It's really hard.
(05:36):
And then you start questioningyourself and you're thinking,
wait.
Was this all a mistake?
Was this all for nothing?
And now I've got that thing, butI'm not getting the result that
I wanted.
Why is it, and how is it that Ihave the PhD now and I'm not
getting the job?
(05:57):
And then not only am I notgetting the job, but as I look
for jobs and I'm very thoroughand analytical about what the
job says that it wants, and thenI think I have to have that
exactly.
And it says.
They want somebody with three tofive years experience and you're
coming fresh out of school andyou think, oh gosh, they wanted
(06:21):
somebody with three to fiveyears of work experience,
industry experience, and I don'thave that.
So either you don't apply for itor you do and you get passed
over because you didn't havethree to five years experience.
I remember this part.
(06:41):
And I remember when I finallydid get an interview for the
job, I ended up getting, it hadsaid, yes, we want three to five
years experience.
And when I was talking with theHR professional on the other end
of the phone, I asked her, Hey,can you help me understand how
(07:03):
is it that every job is askingfor three to five years of
experience?
But then how is anyone eversupposed to get that experience
if someone doesn't hire them andgive them the opportunity to
gain that?
I literally don't understandbecause honestly, I was in grad
(07:24):
school and while I don't haveindustry experience, I tell you
what I do have, I had to take aproblem that no one had solved
before.
And I had to quickly come up tospeed with the historical
literature and take my classesand do my own independent
research solve problems,overcome challenges, deal with
(07:45):
the interactions and theterritorial nature of certain
people using certaininstruments, and me trying to
get my time to do my work.
Getting my results, analyzingthe results, writing them up,
presenting them, answeringquestions, refining my approach,
writing all of that up anddefending.
(08:09):
And now I've earned a degreewhere I am now the foremost
expert on this subject.
And so if I've done it inacademia as a newbie, the first
time I ever did it.
Surely I can do it again inindustry.
I've already proven I can studya subject and I can quickly
(08:30):
become an expert.
So you need somebody to, forexample, that one was fatigue
and fracture of structuraladhesives.
You need someone to understandfatigue and fracture of
structural adhesives.
Awesome.
I can do that.
I'm confident I can do that.
All I need is the opportunity.
All I need is the chance.
(08:53):
So what happened?
I stopped focusing on what Iwanted.
I wanted a job.
I wanted to be successful.
I wanted to have made all ofthat time worth it, and I
started focusing on what theyneeded.
(09:15):
This was a company.
Wanting to embark in a newdirection, wanting to level up,
wanting to all of a sudden dofatigue and fracture mechanics,
and they had never done itbefore.
And so I became the bridge frommy past to their future.
I had to speak in a languagethat they needed to hear to give
(09:38):
them the confidence that I was asafe bet.
See, companies aren't trying tohire somebody if they're risky.
They aren't trying to hiresomebody who makes it very clear
that it's a temporary stoppingpoint on their larger grander
scheme of life.
(09:59):
Oh yeah, I wanna do this jobuntil I can go back and get my
MBA and then I can really do thejob that I want.
No, they don't wanna hear that.
The company doesn't wanna hearany doubt about what you want.
Sure, you do need to figure thatout for yourself.
But when you are puttingyourself in a position in front
(10:20):
of someone who has the abilityto say, go or no about you and
your potential to possibly workthere, you need to fill the need
and fit the mold of the rolethey're looking for.
That's what you need to do toget the opportunity.
(10:42):
Now, do you have to stay thereforever?
No.
It is not a marriage.
It's not till death do us part.
It's till 30, 60, 90 days.
Your performance review, thenext review, every annual review
after that, or whenever thecompany decides that it has to
lay off people, then you may ormay not be on the chopping
(11:03):
block.
You get to do you.
And they get to do what's in thebest interest for them.
Imagine what your life would be like if your career
aligned with who you are, whatyou do best, and actually fueled
the life you want.
At Next Success, we support allages and stages through career
(11:27):
transitions from studentsexploring majors or careers to
job seekers actively searchingor re-imagining their next move
to professionals committed toself-awareness and leadership
growth.
Stay connected and explorewhat's possible at
nextsuccesscareers.com andfollow nextsuccessmethod on
LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram,and Facebook.
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You are listening to Your NextSuccess with Dr.
Caroline Sangal.
Let's continue the journey toyour authentic success.
When you are in the midst of atransition and you're ending one
thing and you're wanting to getsomething else in the future,
but that isn't clearly defined,you're doing yourself a
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disservice if you're gettingfrustrated by looking at
somebody else who is a few yearsahead of you and then judging
yourself because you're notthere yet.
You're not there yet, you'renot.
You're exactly where you need tobe, and you're here with this
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opportunity on purpose, butyou're starting.
You're at the start of the racethey are in the middle.
You will get to the middle, butyou have to get past the start.
You have to get past thisunknowing.
You have to get past this, whatI like to say, the messy middle
in between who you were and whoyou are becoming.
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In between that is the messymiddle.
But if you're at the beginningof your career or you're at the
beginning of the next chapter ofyour career, give yourself some
grace.
Let's think about what you dohave.
Let's celebrate where you arebecause you are already
successful.
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What you've done in the past toget you to today, that's already
a success, but your nextsuccess, that's what we are here
to work out, your next success,and part of getting to your Next
Success is getting through themessy middle, so let's talk
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about that.
Recently I went to the AmericanChemical Society spring meeting
in San Diego.
Now, firstly, this was so coolbecause the last time I had been
to a big full meeting forAmerican Chemical Society, it
was like 20 something years ago,and it was also in San Diego.
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So the fact that I was gettingto go back to San Diego, it was
such a full circle moment forme.
But I tell you when I went therethe last time in the middle of
grad school in my early twentieswith a huge ego and thinking, I
had everything all figured out,and I was the greatest bestest
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person ever.
And that I was gonna have such awonderful future and I was gonna
be CEO and quickly rise to thetop, and everybody would just be
celebrating and clapping me allthe way.
That's what I thought I wasgonna have.
And now what has my lifeactually done in between then
and now?
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It's not like I planned at all.
At all it all, it is not like Iplanned what I thought I wanted
isn't what I got, and honestly,what I got was better than I
could have ever imagined evenwith the struggles, even with
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the challenges.
I got to go back to that ACSmeeting as a career consultant.
A career counselor, I got tomeet with many, many people at
all different stages of theircareer and sit across from them
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face to face and listen to whatwas happening in their lives in
that moment.
And I got to be present withthem.
And in some cases I got to shifttheir perspective a little bit.
And I got to help them seebeyond the struggle that they're
currently facing.
(16:04):
There were so many people thatwere stuck in the messy middle,
that this is what I chose totalk about for my first podcast
episode.
It's that.
I'm thinking about each one ofthose lovely, amazing
individuals, full of hope andopportunity, and also, let's be
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honest, a bit of terror becausethey just spent all this time,
and grad school is coming acrossso many hurdles and it's an
obstacle course, and just whenyou get over one, the course
changes.
It shape shifts, and then youhave to shift and overcome and
adapt.
And when you're in the midst ofthat, like knock you down, knock
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you down, knock you down, andyou keep getting up and getting
up and getting up, and now hereyou go to try to find the job.
And all you keep doing isgetting rejected and rejected
and No's.
It's really, really easy forsomeone in that fragile state to
take it personally and insteadof thinking, okay, this is just
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not my opportunity.
Cool.
Next.
Then you start taking itinternally and you start
thinking, maybe I am a failure.
Maybe something's wrong with me,because why is it that this is
so difficult?
And the reality is maybesomething just needs to be
tweaked about your resume, ormaybe it needs to be tweaked
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about the way that you'reshowing up, or maybe it needs to
be tweaked about your internalmindset and chatter of what's
happening.
And I quickly tried to gainrapport with these wonderful
individuals that I only had infront of me for a short period
of time, and I gave them a safespace.
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And honestly, some of them beingactually seen, heard, valued,
understood.
Some of them, it was a safeplace to finally release some of
the emotions and the stress thatthey've been holding and
carrying.
Some cried, okay.
I made people cry.
No, I didn't make people cry.
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All right?
I didn't make them cry.
I allowed them the safe space todo that.
Because it's hard whether youare going from grad school to
your first industrial job,whether you're going from being
laid off to your next job,whether you're going from having
to take away time from yourfamily and then wanting to go
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back and reenter and refind outyou after you've dedicated so
much time to others, it's hard.
Let's acknowledge that it'shard.
But you can get through it.
And anybody that you've seen onthe other side that you do
admire, they had to get throughit too.
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And so what can you do?
You can start asking people alittle bit more about their
journey, a little bit more aboutwhat they went through.
And if they're kind and nice andopen, then they'll share with
you a little bit more.
And then you'll start to get itnormalized and you'll start to
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realize that everybody's journeyhas obstacles.
Everyone's.
How many people, how manycelebrities have we seen that
outwardly look successful?
And we thought that they were sogreat.
And we didn't actuallyunderstand their internal
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struggle until it was too late.
And so I'm here to helpnormalize a few things.
Life is hard, transitions arehard.
Questioning your career, whatyou're doing, who you are, what
you do best, what you even wantto do.
It's normal.
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And for everything that's hard.
There's also challenges that youovercome that are amazing.
You are becoming, you arebecoming who you are, who you're
meant to be.
You have a purpose.
You were put on this earth onpurpose for a purpose only you
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can do, and the longer thatyou're settling, or the longer
that you're sitting defeated, orthe longer that you're
questioning and doubting whatyou've done to get to today,
you're keeping yourself fromyour better tomorrow.
And so what we're going to do iswork on what can you do in the
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middle.
And so one of the things we saidyou can do in the middle is you
can.
Normalize questioning.
You can acknowledge that you arein a spot and it's a little bit
tricky, and you can also trustand do all the right things to
try to get to your next step andyour Next Success, and so let's
talk more about how that is.
So let's talk about what you cando when you are in the messy
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middle.
I want to leave you with morethan just perspective.
I wanna offer you a pathforward, because once you
realize you're not broken,you're just becoming.
You need something to do withthat clarity.
So here are three steps to beginshifting from confusion to
confidence.
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Number one, clarify who you are.
Take a step back.
Use tools such as assessments,journaling, or coaching to
reconnect with your naturalabilities, values and vision.
That is the foundation formaking aligned decisions.
Number two, connect with others.
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Don't do this alone.
Informational interviews canhelp you learn about what
different careers actually looklike and people love to share
their stories when asked theright way.
Number three, craft your story.
Your story is more than a listof experiences.
Think about the themes that runthrough your journey, the
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curiosity, the persistence, theability to adapt and solve
problems, connect those threadsto the work you want to do next,
and speak from a place ofclarity and alignment.
You are not broken, you're notbehind.
You are not a failure.
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You are in the process ofbecoming.
If this episode resonated withyou, subscribe, share it with a
friend, leave a review.
It helps others find the showand reminds them that they are
not alone either.
If you want extra support, feelfree to grab the free Navigating
(22:50):
Career Transitions workbooklinked in the show notes or
reach out.
Let's figure this out together.
Until next time, keep going.
You're not done yet.
My name is Dr.
Caroline Sangal.
Thank you for being part of yourNext Success.
Thanks for listening to Your Next Success with Dr.
Caroline Sangal.
(23:10):
Remember, authentic success isyours to define and includes
aligning your career to supportthe life you want.
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