June 25, 2025 • 44 mins
Have you ever looked around at your life, your job, or your carefully planned-out path and wondered quietly - how did I end up here?
Today’s guest, Kristin Hiemstra, asked herself that same question—and instead of ignoring it, she followed the thread. In this honest and empowering conversation, she shares her journey from burnout to clarity, and from performing success to living in alignment.
Kristin is a TEDx speaker, coach, educator, and founder of The Art of Potential. She’s also an adjunct lecturer at NC State where she teaches emotional intelligence and organizational culture to MBA students. From toxic workplaces and personal reinvention to launching a values-based civic project, Kristin shows us what it looks like to live what matters.
In this episode you’ll learn:
- How Kristin navigated career confusion with curiosity and courage
- The emotional and physical toll of misalignment—and how she healed from it
- Why emotional intelligence is essential in work and leadership
- What fulfillment really means when you stop checking boxes and start listening within
- How she's creating We the People, a community initiative centered on compassion and agency
If you’ve ever felt stuck in a version of success that doesn’t fit, this conversation will help you reconnect with what matters most and take your next aligned step.
Want more? Watch Kristin's TEDx Talk, Connect with Kristin at www.artofpotential.com, and explore her new initiative at www.wethepeople.community.
Subscribe to Your Next Success so you never miss an episode.
Watch full video episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@NextSuccessMethod/
Learn more about Next Success www.nextsuccesscareers.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caroline (00:02):
Have you ever looked around at your life, your job,
your calendar, your carefullyplanned out path, and quietly
wondered, how did I end up here?
Today's guest has asked herselfthat same question, and instead
of pushing it down, she followedthe thread.
(00:23):
That question became aninvitation to pause, reflect,
and realign not just once, butover and over again.
She's a TEDx speaker, anentrepreneur, a coach, an
educator, and someone who knowswhat it's like to go from
burnout to grounded, from boxedin to fully expressed.
(00:44):
Because sometimes your NextSuccess isn't about striving
harder it's about rememberingwho you are.
And living from that place.
Welcome to your next success,the podcast that helps you break
free from paths that no longerfit and step into the life and
(01:05):
career you were designed for.
I am Dr.
Caroline Sangal, and around herewe don't believe success is one
size fits all.
We believe it's personal,powerful, and deeply aligned.
Because the goal isn't toimpress the world.
It is to live fully as theperson you were created to be.
(01:25):
Today I am joined by KristinHiemstra, an entrepreneur, TEDx
speaker, coach, and educator whohelps people reconnect with
their potential and show up withmore clarity, confidence, and
emotional intelligence.
she's the founder of The Art ofPotential, has taught MBA
students at NC State and isknown for her honest
(01:49):
conversations, deep insight andpractical approach to real
transformation.
Kristin doesn't just teachalignment, she lives it.
And in this conversation you'llhear how.
In this episode, you'll learnhow Kristen navigated early
career confusion and founddirection through curiosity, the
(02:11):
real emotional toll ofmisalignment and how she healed
from it.
What emotional intelligencelooks like in everyday life and
leadership, why fulfillmentisn't about checking boxes, but
listening to the deeper call.
And how she's building somethingnew, bold and values driven with
(02:31):
the We the People community.
Welcome, Kristin, to thepodcast, your next success.
I'm super excited to have you ontoday.
You've always been amazinglyinsightful and helpful, so I
know that our audience willreally love having you.
So welcome.
Kristin Hiemstra (02:47):
Well thank you Caroline.
I'm super excited to be heretoday.
like my favorite topic to talkabout.
Caroline (02:53):
Oh, great.
This is great.
Yeah.
You have spent quite, some yearson it, so I'd love to kind of
walk through a bit of yourcareer journey, how you started,
why you chose even what youchose to study in school.
All of those things.
So help us understand more aboutyou or actually when you were a
(03:14):
kid, did you have a dream jobthat you thought you'd want to
do?
Kristin Hiemstra (03:18):
So when I was a kid I used to play school a
lot.
That was probably it, but Ididn't have a dream job.
But I would line up all mystuffed animals and write on my
blackboard and play school.
Caroline (03:30):
Nice.
Nice.
Did they ask good questions?
Kristin Hiemstra (03:36):
I am sure they did, and they were exactly
questions that I knew theanswers to, which is always a
relief.
Caroline (03:44):
Did you have siblings growing-up?
Kristin Hiemstra (03:46):
I did.
But the age difference is prettysignificant.
One of my sisters is five yearsyounger than I am, and the other
is seven.
And so when you're playing
Caroline (03:54):
They weren't ready to be your students
Kristin Hiemstra (03:55):
in that play stage, we weren't really.
Caroline (03:57):
Yeah.
They weren't
Kristin Hiemstra (03:58):
so.
Caroline (03:58):
to be your students basically.
Kristin Hiemstra (04:00):
No They weren't.
Caroline (04:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kristin Hiemstra (04:03):
And they might have asked questions I didn't
know the answer to.
So there's always that risk.
Caroline (04:09):
Okay.
Well then as you got into, highschool and all of that, how did
you choose what you wanted toend up going to college for?
how did that come about?
Kristin Hiemstra (04:19):
So I didn't go to college, with a particular
end game in mind.
And.
While in college, I thinkdeclared four different majors.
Declared, not like half-assed,like full on declared.
And they were things that I hadbeen interested in.
(04:41):
I started my journey thinking Iwas gonna go into athletic
training, and so I was taking,you know, the anatomy classes
and working in the, trainer'sroom and doing all that.
And then I decided I didn't likethat and I really started to
enjoy religion.
I found religion fascinating andthere was also a dance with
(05:04):
psychology and then I reallyliked city planning and finally
I ended up with a degree inanthropology, which if you're
familiar with it, it's theumbrella which houses all of
that.
So I ended up loving it once Ifound it.
'Cause I could dance in thephysical side and study monkeys
(05:24):
and do that, and then I could,and cultural anthropology ended
up becoming what I really fellin love with.
Caroline (05:31):
Well that's so cool.
Right.
So then help us understand, sothen after that, After you, you
know, got your undergrad degree,and then what?
And then how did you get yourjob, where did you go all of
those things?
Kristin Hiemstra (05:45):
Right.
It was, but it's not a big fieldfor getting work, I'm just gonna
say that.
Well, so I was super interestedin environmental stuff and it
was in the late eighties andthere was a massive recession.
And so I went with the intent ofdoing that work, and it took me
a really long time, and it wasvery, probably one of the most
(06:09):
stressful times, if not the moststressful time in my life.
I moved to DC after I graduated,so, and I was on my own.
So you know, I was doing tempjobs, I was trying to get work.
It wasn't nearly as easy to doresumes as it is now.
You know, all those kinds ofthings.
And I tried every environmentalorganization and just couldn't
(06:33):
crack the code to getting inthere.
So I ended up throughnetworking, working for a news
organization that sold, newsstories.
So if you, had the localspelling bee champion goes to
the national championship inWashington DC you would hire our
news team to go interview them.
(06:54):
'cause you're not gonna sendyour full news crew.
And so we were the Washington,you know, group for that.
And so that was my first lifeexperience, understanding the
power of networking and havingfriends looking for jobs for
you, and also being open.
(07:15):
Like, you know, it's good tohave a focus and to do
everything you can, but you alsohave to be open-minded enough.
And I temped, I waited tables, Ihostess like I did all the other
things because again, you haveto support yourself.
But yeah.
And then eventually I did end upat an environmental
organization, and they were nota healthy organization, which it
(07:40):
was my, like one of my firstjobs, I didn't know what a
healthy organization looked likeas opposed to an unhealthy one,
and it ended up being verytoxic.
I left before all the lawsuitshappened, but it ended up being
quite a, quite a thing, and Ilearned from that experience as
well.
Caroline (08:01):
That's so interesting.
What was it about Washington DCthat you just took leap on your
own to go there.
Kristin Hiemstra (08:12):
Well, so I graduated from UNC and Chapel
Hill.
I had a romantic.
I'm trying to remember if wewere dating at that time.
A guy I had started, I'm marriedto him now.
So we had started dating when Iwas, in the first college I
attended, which was Hope Collegein Holland, Michigan.
(08:32):
And a roommate of mine, and afriend of mine from high school
was going to Georgetown Law.
So I had connections up there,so I wasn't gonna stay here.
And so, you know, and if I wasto do hindsight, I probably, I
always wanted to go toCalifornia.
(08:52):
You know, in hindsight I'm like,well, I really should have
picked up and gone.
But I didn't have, I wasn't thatbrave, at the time.
But I don't know.
And DC it's happening.
There's so much to do.
I loved living up there.
It was just great.
Caroline (09:09):
it's interesting that you got into that toxic
organization, because I knowthat some of the things that
you've since then have been onemotional intelligence
Kristin Hiemstra (09:17):
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Caroline (09:21):
hot to have good cultures all of those that help
shape your interest?
Kristin Hiemstra (09:23):
yeah.
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
Because an organization is onlyas functional as the people who
are in it, and they're only asfunctional as they show up to
work.
Like I've worked in so manygroups where people have been
like, if we could just like theydo their job well, if we could
just get them to leave theirpersonality behind, you know,
(09:46):
how great would that be?
And if you haven't, you willhear that in the workplace
because people show up with allof themselves.
Right?
And so, the toxicity and therewere some value misalignments
that were also, happening there,which I don't do well with when
I'm misaligned in a valueposition and I learned a lot.
(10:14):
The toll it takes emotionally,physically, psychologically, all
of that, because that's yourlife, like when you are, that
you're spending all of your timewith those people doing that
thing, and then everything elseis kind of extra.
Caroline (10:32):
So talk to me a little bit about what was your
experience with those tolls onthe emotional, physical, all of
that When, you were in thattoxic, what did it?
I think this is something a lotof people don't understand and
they don't realize cause theirstuck in the middle of it.
And sometimes if they hear.
Kristin Hiemstra (10:47):
Oh God.
Caroline (10:47):
But like for
Kristin Hiemstra (10:48):
Okay.
Caroline (10:48):
me it was blood pressure.
Kristin Hiemstra (10:50):
Yeah.
Caroline (10:50):
eating my feelings and being so exhausted that I would
numb out after coming home
Kristin Hiemstra (10:56):
Oh yeah.
Caroline (10:57):
And I wasn't the person I wanted, I was
definitely wasn't the person myhusband married, and I wasn't
the person I wanted my littlepeople to see as a mom.
But yeah mom it for you?
What were what were yourexperiences
Kristin Hiemstra (11:07):
Similar but at a different point in life.
So, one thing I started reallygrinding my teeth, and I would
have all these dreams about allmy teeth falling out.
I remember that.
So specifically, at that time inmy life, I smoked cigarettes.
So I was smoking and peoplesmoked in the office.
so there was that.
(11:28):
Then there's this.
For me it was a mental healthcycle of, self-doubt of, one
thing I learned there is whenyou bring someone into an
organization and you onboardthem, you also really need to
train them.
And the training wasn't there.
(11:49):
So while I was making mistakes,it was like.
Nobody had taught.
And then when I did, you know,when they did train me there,
there still wasn't this time tofigure out what I was being
trained on, if that makes anysense.
Like,'cause you do what youiterate like.
You know, we were talking whenwe got started, you were like,
(12:11):
this is a new platform for me.
I'm learning how to use it.
And it takes a couple timesbefore you truly get something.
And so when I work with, when Icoach people, or when I'm
talking about fixing anorganization's culture or
emotional intelligence, that's abig piece of it is, you know,
(12:31):
give people the time and thespace to make mistakes without
judgment.
Yeah, so it was, and you know,you said numb your feelings.
I'm sure I was drinking morethan I should have.
That tends to be my go-to fornumbing.
I know people have all kinds of,you know, healthier ways or not
as healthy ways.
But yeah, all of those thingsfor sure, because you take it
(12:52):
with you and then yourself-esteem also really takes a
hit in environments like that.
Caroline (13:02):
Absolutely, and plus even I guess at that kind of age
and stage of development.
For me, and maybe for you too.
It took a while before I wasseparate that than what I did.
Right.
And so my identity was so tiedup in my job.
Kristin Hiemstra (13:19):
Right.
Caroline (13:20):
if I wasn't, if I felt I wasn't doing my best and my
job, then I wasn't theworthiness whole thing
Kristin Hiemstra (13:25):
Yeah.
Caroline (13:26):
and all of that
Kristin Hiemstra (13:27):
A hundred percent.
Caroline (13:27):
And now I'm like my worth is not in question and
here's what I do.
You like that some.
growing
Kristin Hiemstra (13:36):
Well, but that's a life lesson, Caroline
Like, you know, that's a, that'sa lesson.
Like if I could give the people,the lessons I've learned and
just give them to them.
You know, I would, because Idon't want you to go through the
same crap that I did, you know?
And, and you're kind of in thesame, like you've learned how to
(13:57):
realize your worth and yourvalue.
And then the other thing I'lladd is.
When you come out, whether it'sa toxic relationship, if it's a
toxic relationship, whether it'spersonal, you know, familial,
work, it doesn't friendwhatever, you still have some
sense of PTSD around that.
(14:18):
And so that's also somethingthat peels away over the years
and you know, all that kind ofstuff.
Caroline (14:26):
So as you left that toxic place or how did it go
from DC then to schoolcounselor?
Like How was that leap?
Kristin Hiemstra (14:37):
Then I can't remember what I worked for
another organization, DC has alot of nonprofits and I worked
for an association and reallyhated the job and was so bored
in it and decided my husbanddecided to go become a teacher.
And he worked on Capitol Hill.
(14:58):
He was a lobbyist and he decidedthat he really wanted to be a
teacher, and this is the pettyside of myself that I'm gonna
expose to everybody.
But I knew that if he had thesummers off and I had to go to
work every day, that I would bepissed.
(15:19):
And I knew that I wanted to havea career and also have the
capacity.
We didn't have kids at the time,but that was on the horizon, and
I wanted to have time with them.
In DC where we lived at thetime, if you work downtown, you
know it was an hour to an hourand a half to get to work.
(15:42):
So you get to work by eight 30or nine, then you leave at 5:30
6:00, and then you have an hourand a half commute home.
And so you're like on thisgerbil wheel that's going so
fast and I did not want to be anabsentee parent.
And then I was like, okay, wellI'm gonna go back to school, get
(16:03):
a master's degree education.
And I did both high school andcollege, tracks because I liked
both of them.
And I really enjoyed both tracksto be honest with you.
And then I knew I didn't wannabe in a classroom, so it was
like, okay, I don't wanna be ina classroom.
What do I like?
Well, I really like talking topeople.
so how can I make that work?
(16:25):
So that's, how I ended up inthere.
Caroline (16:28):
That's interesting.
And so did you, how did you getback to North Carolina then?
Kristin Hiemstra (16:35):
9/11 happened and I had two children and I
told my husband, I said, youknow, if you're a terrorist,
you're gonna come back and bombWashington, DC.
You're not gonna bomb like NorthCarolina, or his family lived in
(16:55):
Albany, New York, or you know,you're not going to go to those
places.
So basically I said to him,we're moving.
You can figure out where you cando that, but we are moving
because I am not going to put,I'm not gonna have this risk.
And so that was somenegotiation.
We ended up moving, by myfamily, which was what I
(17:19):
ultimately wanted, but he neededto make that decision, not me.
'cause I had made the decisionwe were going to leave, but we
looked at like Charlottesville,Virginia, we looked at Bucks
County, Pennsylvania.
Like we looked a lot of places.
It wasn't like, you know, like,let's figure this out together.
Caroline (17:37):
And
Kristin Hiemstra (17:38):
that's how we ended up,
Caroline (17:39):
first?
Did he like, did you move here?
and then find it?
And then
Kristin Hiemstra (17:43):
No.
Caroline (17:44):
he found you found a job?
Or did he end up researching andthen that's where hired, so
that's were you went.
Kristin Hiemstra (17:50):
It was, we got into the hiring cycle for the
school district locally, and sowe both ended up with jobs in
the school district, not at thesame school, but we both had
jobs in the school district forwhen we moved.
We didn't move until we hadjobs.
At that point, you know, we hadchildren, so it's a little bit
(18:12):
different.
When you can't walk out withoutinsurance and all that kind of
stuff.
And I will say it was a shockbecause the insurance at our
last school.
The school district we worked inin Virginia was so much better.
We didn't even know that was athing.
And that, that's one thing Iwould say to people is really
(18:32):
find out about insurance.
Like I was, for my firstpregnancy, I was hospitalized
for a month and it cost me$20.
I had my knee reconstructed.
I have a knee issue and it costme$20.
So, I mean, just, you know, I'msure I was also paying for
(18:56):
health insurance whatever, butyou know.
Caroline (18:59):
But yeah.
The differences amongst, I thinkeven when we had kids, one of my
sister-in-laws worked forwell-known pharmaceutical
company and her insurance wasnot as good as the insurance
that I had for a
Kristin Hiemstra (19:14):
Yeah,
Caroline (19:14):
regular old adhesives company.
Kristin Hiemstra (19:16):
Yeah.
Caroline (19:16):
It might have been twenty dollars to end-up having
Kristin Hiemstra (19:18):
Right,
Caroline (19:18):
emergency C-section and big hospital stay and all of
that.
Kristin Hiemstra (19:22):
Right,
Caroline (19:22):
And her's was not.
And I was like.
Kristin Hiemstra (19:24):
Yeah.
Caroline (19:24):
How does this make any sense?
You are working for a companythat deals people's health all
the
Kristin Hiemstra (19:28):
right.
Caroline (19:28):
time.
Kristin Hiemstra (19:29):
Right.
Caroline (19:30):
How does,
Kristin Hiemstra (19:30):
Yeah.
Caroline (19:31):
How's is that, that even a possibility.
Okay, so.
Somewhere along the lines, youdecided to have this
entrepreneurial spirit as wellconcurrently with some.
Kristin Hiemstra (19:43):
Yeah.
Caroline (19:44):
How did that, how did that unfold?
Kristin Hiemstra (19:47):
Well, and I think unfold is the right word.
So even when we lived in DC theyused to have this great thing
called Women's InformationNetwork.
And you could go around and talkto these fantastic women and I
took a class in how to be athrough them, like how to be a
female entrepreneur.
I didn't know what I wanted todo.
(20:11):
I just liked the idea and thatwas kind of a side hustle,
right?
I had my first, my job, but Iknew I wanted a side hustle
where I had dominion over mytime and my income and all that
kind of stuff.
And so it wasn't until goodness,I ended up in another toxic
(20:36):
situation.
That wasn't gonna get there wasI had no power in that
particular situation and that'swhen I decided finally to go out
on my own.
So
Caroline (20:49):
And, what did you, when you went out on your own
then what were, work you weredoing?
Kristin Hiemstra (20:54):
I was doing private college coaching.
Yep.
And I'm still doing privatecollege coaching.
It's been a very good, it isbeen perfect'cause I can do it
as a side hustle.
I can do it as my main, I can doit as a side hustle.
Like it's been a very good, forme, a good fit.
If I were to advise my youngerself, I would say find something
(21:18):
that has residual income.
That's my mid fifties lookingback and kind of seeing the
landscape a lot more.
And that's the advice I justgave to my 22-year-old.
Caroline (21:29):
So what do you mean by residual income?
Help people understand what thatmeans.
Kristin Hiemstra (21:33):
So there's a few ways that you can do it.
So what really set this off forme is I have two very different
friends.
One of my friends makes moviesand he's at a position where if
his movie does well, he getsresiduals and his movie just.
(21:55):
really knocked it out of thepark.
It's doing incredibly well.
And I'm sitting there going,wow, you know, for that year
that he worked on that projectfor the rest of his life, you
know,'cause this is one of thosemovies that's gonna have a long
thing.
He's going to be making incomefrom it.
So it's an investment that it'sgoing to keep giving the other
(22:19):
friend of mine.
Is she has just a bunch of smallrental properties.
So for her, she's getting theincome from the rentals, as well
as the property values increase,she's making money through that
aspect as well.
So it's finding and investmentscan be residual income.
(22:42):
Like, you know they just keepgiving there.
There's lots of ways you can doit.
I have a, another friend who shehas a big full-time job in town
and she's developing storylinesfor Disney.
Like, so there's lots of thingsthat you can do to kind of find
your own.
(23:03):
It has to be something that youenjoy because that's what, but
in a way where you're going tosee the payoff for a long period
of time.
Caroline (23:13):
I get it.
(23:59):
Welcome.
Back before the break, Kristenhad shared how entrepreneurship
gave her freedom and whyresidual income and personal
alignment becamenon-negotiables.
Now we shift into the nextchapter how she's reentered the
education world.
Why emotional intelligencebecame her mission and what
(24:19):
she's building now with the wethe people community.
Let's keep going.
How did you go then from kind ofhaving your own thing to then
getting back into, well, I guessdid you always, was the
entrepreneurship always the sidehustle or did it become the main
hustle and then you went backinto a full-time job and tell us
(24:42):
about that.
Kristin Hiemstra (24:43):
So I worked for one school, which was toxic,
and then I left that schoolright as the market crashed.
So the economy that I thoughtwas going to be there to support
me was not, but I had a set ofskills that I could then parlay
(25:07):
into another similar job workingfor a school.
So I did that and that ended upbeing a much healthier
organization.
So I stayed with that for areally long time.
And then I was like, okay, nowI'm ready to just walk away from
this particular side, because asa school counselor, you're
(25:30):
really, 80% of your time isspent dealing with some.
things that you really justdon't wanna spend your time
dealing with.
It's not, you don't have kidscoming in and talking to you.
It's administrivia.
So anyway, and so I decided thatthen to do, and so I've been on
my own now for quite a while.
Caroline (25:51):
And then you'd gone back
Kristin Hiemstra (25:52):
and you were teaching
Caroline (25:53):
in college.
How was that?
How
Kristin Hiemstra (25:56):
That was another really fun side hustle.
I taught MBA students at NorthCarolina State, emotional
intelligence and creatingorganizational culture, and I
loved it.
I loved it.
It was so much fun and it gaveme a chance to reconnect with my
corporate experience as well asto be the teacher teaching
(26:18):
content that I loved and thatkind of felt all in alignment.
And that's why, like I said, Icould not be a a high school
teacher'cause I didn't love anyof the content.
Like my husband teaches highschool history.
He loves history.
No one in high schools learningemotional intelligence and you
(26:41):
know, anthropology, things aboutorganizational culture Anyway,
so that was really fun for me toteach those programs.
And again, I got thatopportunity through a friend who
was a full professor there andthey were looking for people to
offer these particular thingsfor the leadership certificate.
(27:03):
And I happened to fit the bill.
Caroline (27:05):
Oh, that's so cool.
Why don't we teach emotionalintelligence in school?
Younger ages.
I feel like maybe of them aremontessori schools kind give
back culture that culture ofgrace and you know.
Even if I look at my own went tomontessori, one did not.
Kristin Hiemstra (27:22):
Oh, they all do.
Caroline (27:22):
They have different skills.
Kristin Hiemstra (27:24):
Oh, totally.
And private schools all teachit.
And teach it so well, I mean,and there's lots of programs,
but in the public school it hasbecome very controversial and it
is not.
I did a TED talk on this becauseit's so.
Caroline (27:40):
Did a great TED Talk.
Will link that in the show notestoo.
Kristin Hiemstra (27:43):
I mean, it's so imperative that kids learn
it.
But when you start talking aboutempathy, you have to start
talking about people who aredifferent than you are.
And that can include the colorof their skin, their sexuality,
their values, their religion,you know, all the isms.
Have to be addressed as youlearn how to be compassionate
(28:06):
and empathetic and you know, allof that.
And for people who are, in adifficult position position that
can be very triggering.
It makes them feel like you'regiving permission for kids to do
(28:27):
things that you're not, you'reyou're trying to say, you know,
this person, even though they'rea Muslim or you know, Jewish or
Christian or whatever, you know,and that is very, very
triggering, which is unfortunatebecause we're all souls trying
to figure out how to exist inthis planet, right?
(28:50):
now the California schoolsystems do an excellent job,
like it's integrated into theircurriculum, but they're also
kind of seen as these crazy leftwing liberals.
right?
But there's not a teacher whodoesn't want emotional
intelligence taught in theirclassroom because it changes the
dynamic.
It changes everything
Caroline (29:08):
How do you think that having emotional intelligence,
emotional, you know, resilience,does that equate to success or
fulfillment?
Kristin Hiemstra (29:19):
They're two different things.
I think you embody one of'em somuch, which is the self-worth,
right?
So if we teach children to trulyunderstand their value, to be
open to receiving constructivefeedback about being a dork or
(29:42):
being a jerk or whatever, butnot to let that impede their
understanding of their ownvalue.
Then that builds true confidencein them because they feel worthy
and they, also have greaterresilience because your message
(30:03):
to them is where we started thisconversation of iterating like,
you made a mistake.
Like, you know, you tried thismath problem and you didn't get
any of it right?
But what did you learn is verydifferent than.
Wow, you failed that.
Like, and so the internaldialogue gets totally changed
(30:24):
when, when that's theunderstanding, right?
The fulfillment.
And I do think schools could doa lot more to build true
confidence in students.
And it doesn't, it bothers me.
They're so academic, and I knowthat sounds weird, talking about
a school.
I also feel like schools areovertaxed with having too many
(30:45):
of society's problems to dealwith.
I don't think that's a fair,label to put on schools.
But, expanding what an educationis, I think would be beneficial
to all of us in, you know, likeschool shootings.
They aren't a thing when we weregrowing up.
Like, you know that's, and thepeople who are doing the
(31:06):
shootings are, they tend to beloners.
They tend not to have thoseskill sets.
I'm going off on a tangent here.
But I was shocked when we wouldhave a tragedy in the school, we
would always set up our crisisteams and the kids who came in
were the goth kids.
They weren't necessarily theother ones that had these big
support systems.
(31:27):
They were our most fragile kids.
And you wouldn't know that bylooking at them.
Caroline (31:32):
Yeah.
Kristin Hiemstra (31:32):
I remember being shocked.
Like, when I first had to gothrough that for the first time,
and then I just knew to expectit.
I was like, oh okay.
Now fulfillment is somethingwhere.
You have, it's almost like anurge from inside of you to do
something.
For example, you doing thispodcast, this urge, this desire,
(31:57):
it's like this drive, right?
This fire in your belly and thefulfillment comes from that
expression.
And you need both and I wish wehelped connect people more with
the fire in their belly so thatthey could, because the
fulfillment you get is likenothing else.
Caroline (32:17):
Yeah.
Kristin Hiemstra (32:17):
Because you're expressing your soul's purpose.
You're expressing, you know,what you came to do.
And so it's only in that momentwhere you're gonna find the
alignment that you're lookingfor.
Caroline (32:32):
I think sometimes people are just so busy in the
moment of what they thinkthey're to supposed do.
That their not
Kristin Hiemstra (32:38):
totally.
Caroline (32:38):
silent enough to listen and realize.
Hey, I was put here on purposefor a purpose only I can do, and
what is that?
And the longer that I'm, youknow, settling, the longer that
I'm just life pass by and notfully living it, the more I that
not only am I missing out on myown true
Kristin Hiemstra (32:57):
Okay.
Caroline (32:58):
things.
But the world is missing out onwhat I can contribute.
Kristin Hiemstra (33:02):
it,
Caroline (33:02):
Why do you think people are getting this wrong?
That they're not feeling ortrusting or taking a leap to go
do their purpose.
Kristin Hiemstra (33:14):
Well, I think you hit it.
I think they're afraid.
I think fear is a big piece ofit because first of all.
You need health insurance and weare not a nation where you are
insured and so you have nosafety net.
That's why I feel like thoseside hustles are so important to
(33:34):
have an expression for thatenergy because you do have to
support yourself.
And you know, I did a lot ofresearch on organizational
culture.
I research Denmark quite a bitbecause they are the happiest
country.
They have the happiestemployees.
I surveyed a lot of'em.
Most of'em were seven outta 10happy at their work.
(33:55):
And they have all these systemsset up.
To make sure that the person isdoing a role they like, and if
that person loses their job,that they have a support system
and ample income, so they're notlike, you know, that panic
doesn't set in.
So I think until people feelsafe and it's emotionally,
(34:18):
physically, psychologically,spiritually, because the other
thing is when you're talkingabout somebody's soul calling
it.
you know, that, quote in theBible, light under a bushel, you
know, don't put your light undera bushel.
But that light is also sofragile that the first time you
(34:38):
come out with it.
Again, getting back to thisiteration thing, it may not land
with anybody.
And then you're like, oh, youknow, because you've taken a
risk and you haven't succeededand it's been something that's,
that's sacred to you and thathurts a lot.
So so you might like push it onthe back burner.
(35:00):
And then there's also thenarrative in society that
success is equated with financesor, you know, having a lot of
economic power.
And so like I can't tell you howmany bored overworked or how
many people hate being lawyers.
Like there's a reason that it'scalled, you know.
(35:21):
The job that people do that theyhate, and recovering lawyer is
the thing that, you know, youfind my nurse was a lawyer.
Like you find a lot of peoplewho have done that.
But I think to your point, notreflecting because it's.
And there's also, I wanna addparental, I don't know who your
(35:42):
audience is, but there are somecultures where the parents
define what the job is going tobe.
You're gonna be a doctor, you'regonna be an engineer, you're
gonna be, and, and that'salready defined for the student,
and they just know what theyneed to do to follow in those
footsteps,
Caroline (36:00):
Yeah.
I've experienced, not, not mepersonally.
I've known lot of people
Kristin Hiemstra (36:05):
right?
Caroline (36:05):
who you know, spend alot of time doing something.
And even if they do it well.
Kristin Hiemstra (36:10):
Right,
Caroline (36:11):
But their life because they're acting out somebody
else's definition of success,somebody else's definition of
what their life could be insteadof fully embracing and stepping
into their own.
Kristin Hiemstra (36:23):
Hundred percent.
And it doesn't even have to bean intimate, like, it doesn't
even have to be a parent.
It can be society's idea.
Like you think, oh, you know,society wants, I'm going to be
an You know, that's gonna begreat.
You know, like, what is it?
The only person that reallyshould care is you.
So.
Caroline (36:41):
That's true.
So, you mentioned that before wegot on this, that you're in the
midst of a career transitionyourself.
Kristin Hiemstra (36:47):
Yeah.
Caroline (36:49):
What's all that about?
Kristin Hiemstra (36:51):
So right now as I look at the political
system, it is broken.
In my opinion, and I don't likeit.
And I was like, well, who'sgonna fix it?
And I couldn't come up withanybody.
(37:12):
And I was like, well, that meansthat it's something I can work
on because the people that I seewhen I say who's gonna fix it to
me, it's still locked in partyideologies.
And most of the people I talk toon both sides believe that the
(37:35):
system is broken the way thatit's doing now.
So I'm starting an organization,it's called.
We the people and it's dotcommunity.
I loved that I was able to getthat website.
Wethepeople.community.
Because community is, if youlook at the founding Fathers
intentions, that's really whatit was like, bringing together
(37:59):
people in a positive way to selfgovern.
And we have abdicated a lot ofour power as.
Citizens and so I don't know.
Again, going back to the wholeiterative thing, I don't know
exactly what it's gonna looklike.
It's truly like, if you think ofit in terms of a person, it's an
(38:20):
infant.
Like I'm staring at it going,what's your personality going to
be like?
You know anybody who's had akid, right?
Your kid comes out and you'relike, I don't know who you are.
You're gonna show me over timeand I'm going to.
So that's the stage I am rightnow.
I'm looking at it going, I knowthis is what I want.
I want this so much.
I'm not sure what it's going tolook like.
(38:41):
But I'm still doing my collegecoaching.
I'm still doing some careerstuff.
Like I'm still doing thosepieces as I move to this next
chapter.
So it becomes fluid.
Caroline (38:52):
So you're building this new thing while still.
Utilizing the tools and thesystems that you made for your
the other ones too.
Kristin Hiemstra (39:01):
Absolutely.
Caroline (39:02):
That's so cool.
Kristin Hiemstra (39:05):
And that system has worked for me.
Caroline (39:08):
So how can people find you?
Like what could people get yourhelp with and how do they find
Kristin Hiemstra (39:14):
Sure.
Caroline (39:15):
you?
Which place should they go toactually get your time.
Kristin Hiemstra (39:17):
Right.
So my website is art ofpotential.com and then I have we
the people.community, and Idon't have, that will probably
be up by the time this is, youknow, aired and whatnot.
But that is gonna be iterative.
But if you, have coaching, lifecoaching, career coaching.
(39:41):
College coaching, all thosethings.
That's art of potential is thewebsite to reach me?
Caroline (39:48):
Awesome.
I do a lot with trying to helppeople find authentic success.
How do you define authenticsuccess for you in this moment?
Kristin Hiemstra (40:02):
It's when I feel that I'm expressing what my
soul's purpose is in the careerformat.
I mean, I think we have manypurposes life lessons.
Like I think one of yourpurposes for being in this world
was to learn how to feel worthy,right?
Like that's additional.
But you're also part of your youknow, there's a lot of mirrors
(40:25):
to many facets of us.
This career piece is also youlike being authentic and
expressing you have this amazingskillset, you know, and it feels
like your giving, it's the joyof the giving of what you have
to offer is what I feel.
Then you've hit your authenticspot when you're super excited
(40:49):
and we all know people who likethrow up their gift on you and
you're like, oh, I didn't wantthat.
Right.
So you do have to find yourtribe, like the people are gonna
resonate with it.
But that to me, and then theother piece I would say is
there's an authenticity aboutgrowing and realizing we're here
(41:13):
to expand and become more and tolearn and give ourself grace as
we're doing that, and giveothers grace as they're doing it
as well.
So that's where I feel like.
The authenticity pieces.
And you can't be authenticunless you've done a personal
(41:33):
inventory, unless you know whatyou're about.
And that it's trial and error aswell as, you know, a deep dive.
Like it's both end.
Caroline (41:42):
That's true.
Well I want to thank you so muchfor being on this podcast,
sharing a little bit more aboutyour gifts and talents, your
journeys.
I'm here to normalizequestioning your career and also
support everyone with thosestories.
Kristin Hiemstra (41:59):
You know, a hundred percent and you know,
the statistics as well as I do,it's about every seven years.
The seven year itch is, it's areal thing that you see people
starting to, there's a cyclethat's involved so.
Caroline (42:12):
Well, thank you kristen, for being part of your
Next Success.
And I can't wait to hear moreabout your Next Success
Kristin Hiemstra (42:18):
I know, right?
Caroline (42:19):
we the people dot community
Kristin Hiemstra (42:19):
Me neither.
Caroline (42:21):
Maybe we'll have to have you back to, update
everybody on how that goes.
Kristin Hiemstra (42:26):
Yeah.
Well, let me get a little bit,I'd love to talk about it more
when I know more about it,
Caroline (42:32):
If this conversation stirred something in you, don't
push it aside.
That pull you feel, thatwhisper.
It is not a coincidence.
You can connect with Kristin atwww.art of potential.com or
explore her new initiative atWethePeople.community.
She's a TEDx speaker, coach,educator, and someone who has
(42:55):
walked the very path.
She now helps others navigatewith wisdom, depth, and grace.
And if you're ready to alignyour life and career in a way
that finally fits, visitnextsuccesscareers.com to
explore tools, coaching andcourses to guide you forward.
Kristin, thank you so much forsharing your heart, your story,
(43:16):
and your insight with us.
It is such a gift to hearsomeone speak from lived
experience, not just knowledge.
And I know so many listeners arewalking away with more clarity
and hope today.
You don't have to keepperforming a version of success
that leaves you drained.
You don't have to wait forsomething to break before you
(43:37):
choose something better and youare not behind.
Your Next Success isn'tsomewhere far off.
It is already within you, justwaiting to be lived.
Thanks for listening.
I am grateful that you are here,and I'll see you next time.
Keep going.
You're not done yet.
Thanks for listening to YourNext Success with Dr.
(43:59):
Caroline Sangal.
Remember, authentic success isyours to define and includes
aligning your career to supportthe life you want.
Have you ever looked around at your life, your job,
your calendar, your carefullyplanned out path, and quietly
wondered, how did I end up here?
Today's guest has asked herselfthat same question, and instead
of pushing it down, she followedthe thread.
(00:23):
That question became aninvitation to pause, reflect,
and realign not just once, butover and over again.
She's a TEDx speaker, anentrepreneur, a coach, an
educator, and someone who knowswhat it's like to go from
burnout to grounded, from boxedin to fully expressed.
(00:44):
Because sometimes your NextSuccess isn't about striving
harder it's about rememberingwho you are.
And living from that place.
Welcome to your next success,the podcast that helps you break
free from paths that no longerfit and step into the life and
(01:05):
career you were designed for.
I am Dr.
Caroline Sangal, and around herewe don't believe success is one
size fits all.
We believe it's personal,powerful, and deeply aligned.
Because the goal isn't toimpress the world.
It is to live fully as theperson you were created to be.
(01:25):
Today I am joined by KristinHiemstra, an entrepreneur, TEDx
speaker, coach, and educator whohelps people reconnect with
their potential and show up withmore clarity, confidence, and
emotional intelligence.
she's the founder of The Art ofPotential, has taught MBA
students at NC State and isknown for her honest
(01:49):
conversations, deep insight andpractical approach to real
transformation.
Kristin doesn't just teachalignment, she lives it.
And in this conversation you'llhear how.
In this episode, you'll learnhow Kristen navigated early
career confusion and founddirection through curiosity, the
(02:11):
real emotional toll ofmisalignment and how she healed
from it.
What emotional intelligencelooks like in everyday life and
leadership, why fulfillmentisn't about checking boxes, but
listening to the deeper call.
And how she's building somethingnew, bold and values driven with
(02:31):
the We the People community.
Welcome, Kristin, to thepodcast, your next success.
I'm super excited to have you ontoday.
You've always been amazinglyinsightful and helpful, so I
know that our audience willreally love having you.
So welcome.
Kristin Hiemstra (02:47):
Well thank you Caroline.
I'm super excited to be heretoday.
like my favorite topic to talkabout.
Caroline (02:53):
Oh, great.
This is great.
Yeah.
You have spent quite, some yearson it, so I'd love to kind of
walk through a bit of yourcareer journey, how you started,
why you chose even what youchose to study in school.
All of those things.
So help us understand more aboutyou or actually when you were a
(03:14):
kid, did you have a dream jobthat you thought you'd want to
do?
Kristin Hiemstra (03:18):
So when I was a kid I used to play school a
lot.
That was probably it, but Ididn't have a dream job.
But I would line up all mystuffed animals and write on my
blackboard and play school.
Caroline (03:30):
Nice.
Nice.
Did they ask good questions?
Kristin Hiemstra (03:36):
I am sure they did, and they were exactly
questions that I knew theanswers to, which is always a
relief.
Caroline (03:44):
Did you have siblings growing-up?
Kristin Hiemstra (03:46):
I did.
But the age difference is prettysignificant.
One of my sisters is five yearsyounger than I am, and the other
is seven.
And so when you're playing
Caroline (03:54):
They weren't ready to be your students
Kristin Hiemstra (03:55):
in that play stage, we weren't really.
Caroline (03:57):
Yeah.
They weren't
Kristin Hiemstra (03:58):
so.
Caroline (03:58):
to be your students basically.
Kristin Hiemstra (04:00):
No They weren't.
Caroline (04:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kristin Hiemstra (04:03):
And they might have asked questions I didn't
know the answer to.
So there's always that risk.
Caroline (04:09):
Okay.
Well then as you got into, highschool and all of that, how did
you choose what you wanted toend up going to college for?
how did that come about?
Kristin Hiemstra (04:19):
So I didn't go to college, with a particular
end game in mind.
And.
While in college, I thinkdeclared four different majors.
Declared, not like half-assed,like full on declared.
And they were things that I hadbeen interested in.
(04:41):
I started my journey thinking Iwas gonna go into athletic
training, and so I was taking,you know, the anatomy classes
and working in the, trainer'sroom and doing all that.
And then I decided I didn't likethat and I really started to
enjoy religion.
I found religion fascinating andthere was also a dance with
(05:04):
psychology and then I reallyliked city planning and finally
I ended up with a degree inanthropology, which if you're
familiar with it, it's theumbrella which houses all of
that.
So I ended up loving it once Ifound it.
'Cause I could dance in thephysical side and study monkeys
(05:24):
and do that, and then I could,and cultural anthropology ended
up becoming what I really fellin love with.
Caroline (05:31):
Well that's so cool.
Right.
So then help us understand, sothen after that, After you, you
know, got your undergrad degree,and then what?
And then how did you get yourjob, where did you go all of
those things?
Kristin Hiemstra (05:45):
Right.
It was, but it's not a big fieldfor getting work, I'm just gonna
say that.
Well, so I was super interestedin environmental stuff and it
was in the late eighties andthere was a massive recession.
And so I went with the intent ofdoing that work, and it took me
a really long time, and it wasvery, probably one of the most
(06:09):
stressful times, if not the moststressful time in my life.
I moved to DC after I graduated,so, and I was on my own.
So you know, I was doing tempjobs, I was trying to get work.
It wasn't nearly as easy to doresumes as it is now.
You know, all those kinds ofthings.
And I tried every environmentalorganization and just couldn't
(06:33):
crack the code to getting inthere.
So I ended up throughnetworking, working for a news
organization that sold, newsstories.
So if you, had the localspelling bee champion goes to
the national championship inWashington DC you would hire our
news team to go interview them.
(06:54):
'cause you're not gonna sendyour full news crew.
And so we were the Washington,you know, group for that.
And so that was my first lifeexperience, understanding the
power of networking and havingfriends looking for jobs for
you, and also being open.
(07:15):
Like, you know, it's good tohave a focus and to do
everything you can, but you alsohave to be open-minded enough.
And I temped, I waited tables, Ihostess like I did all the other
things because again, you haveto support yourself.
But yeah.
And then eventually I did end upat an environmental
organization, and they were nota healthy organization, which it
(07:40):
was my, like one of my firstjobs, I didn't know what a
healthy organization looked likeas opposed to an unhealthy one,
and it ended up being verytoxic.
I left before all the lawsuitshappened, but it ended up being
quite a, quite a thing, and Ilearned from that experience as
well.
Caroline (08:01):
That's so interesting.
What was it about Washington DCthat you just took leap on your
own to go there.
Kristin Hiemstra (08:12):
Well, so I graduated from UNC and Chapel
Hill.
I had a romantic.
I'm trying to remember if wewere dating at that time.
A guy I had started, I'm marriedto him now.
So we had started dating when Iwas, in the first college I
attended, which was Hope Collegein Holland, Michigan.
(08:32):
And a roommate of mine, and afriend of mine from high school
was going to Georgetown Law.
So I had connections up there,so I wasn't gonna stay here.
And so, you know, and if I wasto do hindsight, I probably, I
always wanted to go toCalifornia.
(08:52):
You know, in hindsight I'm like,well, I really should have
picked up and gone.
But I didn't have, I wasn't thatbrave, at the time.
But I don't know.
And DC it's happening.
There's so much to do.
I loved living up there.
It was just great.
Caroline (09:09):
it's interesting that you got into that toxic
organization, because I knowthat some of the things that
you've since then have been onemotional intelligence
Kristin Hiemstra (09:17):
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Caroline (09:21):
hot to have good cultures all of those that help
shape your interest?
Kristin Hiemstra (09:23):
yeah.
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
Because an organization is onlyas functional as the people who
are in it, and they're only asfunctional as they show up to
work.
Like I've worked in so manygroups where people have been
like, if we could just like theydo their job well, if we could
just get them to leave theirpersonality behind, you know,
(09:46):
how great would that be?
And if you haven't, you willhear that in the workplace
because people show up with allof themselves.
Right?
And so, the toxicity and therewere some value misalignments
that were also, happening there,which I don't do well with when
I'm misaligned in a valueposition and I learned a lot.
(10:14):
The toll it takes emotionally,physically, psychologically, all
of that, because that's yourlife, like when you are, that
you're spending all of your timewith those people doing that
thing, and then everything elseis kind of extra.
Caroline (10:32):
So talk to me a little bit about what was your
experience with those tolls onthe emotional, physical, all of
that When, you were in thattoxic, what did it?
I think this is something a lotof people don't understand and
they don't realize cause theirstuck in the middle of it.
And sometimes if they hear.
Kristin Hiemstra (10:47):
Oh God.
Caroline (10:47):
But like for
Kristin Hiemstra (10:48):
Okay.
Caroline (10:48):
me it was blood pressure.
Kristin Hiemstra (10:50):
Yeah.
Caroline (10:50):
eating my feelings and being so exhausted that I would
numb out after coming home
Kristin Hiemstra (10:56):
Oh yeah.
Caroline (10:57):
And I wasn't the person I wanted, I was
definitely wasn't the person myhusband married, and I wasn't
the person I wanted my littlepeople to see as a mom.
But yeah mom it for you?
What were what were yourexperiences
Kristin Hiemstra (11:07):
Similar but at a different point in life.
So, one thing I started reallygrinding my teeth, and I would
have all these dreams about allmy teeth falling out.
I remember that.
So specifically, at that time inmy life, I smoked cigarettes.
So I was smoking and peoplesmoked in the office.
so there was that.
(11:28):
Then there's this.
For me it was a mental healthcycle of, self-doubt of, one
thing I learned there is whenyou bring someone into an
organization and you onboardthem, you also really need to
train them.
And the training wasn't there.
(11:49):
So while I was making mistakes,it was like.
Nobody had taught.
And then when I did, you know,when they did train me there,
there still wasn't this time tofigure out what I was being
trained on, if that makes anysense.
Like,'cause you do what youiterate like.
You know, we were talking whenwe got started, you were like,
(12:11):
this is a new platform for me.
I'm learning how to use it.
And it takes a couple timesbefore you truly get something.
And so when I work with, when Icoach people, or when I'm
talking about fixing anorganization's culture or
emotional intelligence, that's abig piece of it is, you know,
(12:31):
give people the time and thespace to make mistakes without
judgment.
Yeah, so it was, and you know,you said numb your feelings.
I'm sure I was drinking morethan I should have.
That tends to be my go-to fornumbing.
I know people have all kinds of,you know, healthier ways or not
as healthy ways.
But yeah, all of those thingsfor sure, because you take it
(12:52):
with you and then yourself-esteem also really takes a
hit in environments like that.
Caroline (13:02):
Absolutely, and plus even I guess at that kind of age
and stage of development.
For me, and maybe for you too.
It took a while before I wasseparate that than what I did.
Right.
And so my identity was so tiedup in my job.
Kristin Hiemstra (13:19):
Right.
Caroline (13:20):
if I wasn't, if I felt I wasn't doing my best and my
job, then I wasn't theworthiness whole thing
Kristin Hiemstra (13:25):
Yeah.
Caroline (13:26):
and all of that
Kristin Hiemstra (13:27):
A hundred percent.
Caroline (13:27):
And now I'm like my worth is not in question and
here's what I do.
You like that some.
growing
Kristin Hiemstra (13:36):
Well, but that's a life lesson, Caroline
Like, you know, that's a, that'sa lesson.
Like if I could give the people,the lessons I've learned and
just give them to them.
You know, I would, because Idon't want you to go through the
same crap that I did, you know?
And, and you're kind of in thesame, like you've learned how to
(13:57):
realize your worth and yourvalue.
And then the other thing I'lladd is.
When you come out, whether it'sa toxic relationship, if it's a
toxic relationship, whether it'spersonal, you know, familial,
work, it doesn't friendwhatever, you still have some
sense of PTSD around that.
(14:18):
And so that's also somethingthat peels away over the years
and you know, all that kind ofstuff.
Caroline (14:26):
So as you left that toxic place or how did it go
from DC then to schoolcounselor?
Like How was that leap?
Kristin Hiemstra (14:37):
Then I can't remember what I worked for
another organization, DC has alot of nonprofits and I worked
for an association and reallyhated the job and was so bored
in it and decided my husbanddecided to go become a teacher.
And he worked on Capitol Hill.
(14:58):
He was a lobbyist and he decidedthat he really wanted to be a
teacher, and this is the pettyside of myself that I'm gonna
expose to everybody.
But I knew that if he had thesummers off and I had to go to
work every day, that I would bepissed.
(15:19):
And I knew that I wanted to havea career and also have the
capacity.
We didn't have kids at the time,but that was on the horizon, and
I wanted to have time with them.
In DC where we lived at thetime, if you work downtown, you
know it was an hour to an hourand a half to get to work.
(15:42):
So you get to work by eight 30or nine, then you leave at 5:30
6:00, and then you have an hourand a half commute home.
And so you're like on thisgerbil wheel that's going so
fast and I did not want to be anabsentee parent.
And then I was like, okay, wellI'm gonna go back to school, get
(16:03):
a master's degree education.
And I did both high school andcollege, tracks because I liked
both of them.
And I really enjoyed both tracksto be honest with you.
And then I knew I didn't wannabe in a classroom, so it was
like, okay, I don't wanna be ina classroom.
What do I like?
Well, I really like talking topeople.
so how can I make that work?
(16:25):
So that's, how I ended up inthere.
Caroline (16:28):
That's interesting.
And so did you, how did you getback to North Carolina then?
Kristin Hiemstra (16:35):
9/11 happened and I had two children and I
told my husband, I said, youknow, if you're a terrorist,
you're gonna come back and bombWashington, DC.
You're not gonna bomb like NorthCarolina, or his family lived in
(16:55):
Albany, New York, or you know,you're not going to go to those
places.
So basically I said to him,we're moving.
You can figure out where you cando that, but we are moving
because I am not going to put,I'm not gonna have this risk.
And so that was somenegotiation.
We ended up moving, by myfamily, which was what I
(17:19):
ultimately wanted, but he neededto make that decision, not me.
'cause I had made the decisionwe were going to leave, but we
looked at like Charlottesville,Virginia, we looked at Bucks
County, Pennsylvania.
Like we looked a lot of places.
It wasn't like, you know, like,let's figure this out together.
Caroline (17:37):
And
Kristin Hiemstra (17:38):
that's how we ended up,
Caroline (17:39):
first?
Did he like, did you move here?
and then find it?
And then
Kristin Hiemstra (17:43):
No.
Caroline (17:44):
he found you found a job?
Or did he end up researching andthen that's where hired, so
that's were you went.
Kristin Hiemstra (17:50):
It was, we got into the hiring cycle for the
school district locally, and sowe both ended up with jobs in
the school district, not at thesame school, but we both had
jobs in the school district forwhen we moved.
We didn't move until we hadjobs.
At that point, you know, we hadchildren, so it's a little bit
(18:12):
different.
When you can't walk out withoutinsurance and all that kind of
stuff.
And I will say it was a shockbecause the insurance at our
last school.
The school district we worked inin Virginia was so much better.
We didn't even know that was athing.
And that, that's one thing Iwould say to people is really
(18:32):
find out about insurance.
Like I was, for my firstpregnancy, I was hospitalized
for a month and it cost me$20.
I had my knee reconstructed.
I have a knee issue and it costme$20.
So, I mean, just, you know, I'msure I was also paying for
(18:56):
health insurance whatever, butyou know.
Caroline (18:59):
But yeah.
The differences amongst, I thinkeven when we had kids, one of my
sister-in-laws worked forwell-known pharmaceutical
company and her insurance wasnot as good as the insurance
that I had for a
Kristin Hiemstra (19:14):
Yeah,
Caroline (19:14):
regular old adhesives company.
Kristin Hiemstra (19:16):
Yeah.
Caroline (19:16):
It might have been twenty dollars to end-up having
Kristin Hiemstra (19:18):
Right,
Caroline (19:18):
emergency C-section and big hospital stay and all of
that.
Kristin Hiemstra (19:22):
Right,
Caroline (19:22):
And her's was not.
And I was like.
Kristin Hiemstra (19:24):
Yeah.
Caroline (19:24):
How does this make any sense?
You are working for a companythat deals people's health all
the
Kristin Hiemstra (19:28):
right.
Caroline (19:28):
time.
Kristin Hiemstra (19:29):
Right.
Caroline (19:30):
How does,
Kristin Hiemstra (19:30):
Yeah.
Caroline (19:31):
How's is that, that even a possibility.
Okay, so.
Somewhere along the lines, youdecided to have this
entrepreneurial spirit as wellconcurrently with some.
Kristin Hiemstra (19:43):
Yeah.
Caroline (19:44):
How did that, how did that unfold?
Kristin Hiemstra (19:47):
Well, and I think unfold is the right word.
So even when we lived in DC theyused to have this great thing
called Women's InformationNetwork.
And you could go around and talkto these fantastic women and I
took a class in how to be athrough them, like how to be a
female entrepreneur.
I didn't know what I wanted todo.
(20:11):
I just liked the idea and thatwas kind of a side hustle,
right?
I had my first, my job, but Iknew I wanted a side hustle
where I had dominion over mytime and my income and all that
kind of stuff.
And so it wasn't until goodness,I ended up in another toxic
(20:36):
situation.
That wasn't gonna get there wasI had no power in that
particular situation and that'swhen I decided finally to go out
on my own.
So
Caroline (20:49):
And, what did you, when you went out on your own
then what were, work you weredoing?
Kristin Hiemstra (20:54):
I was doing private college coaching.
Yep.
And I'm still doing privatecollege coaching.
It's been a very good, it isbeen perfect'cause I can do it
as a side hustle.
I can do it as my main, I can doit as a side hustle.
Like it's been a very good, forme, a good fit.
If I were to advise my youngerself, I would say find something
(21:18):
that has residual income.
That's my mid fifties lookingback and kind of seeing the
landscape a lot more.
And that's the advice I justgave to my 22-year-old.
Caroline (21:29):
So what do you mean by residual income?
Help people understand what thatmeans.
Kristin Hiemstra (21:33):
So there's a few ways that you can do it.
So what really set this off forme is I have two very different
friends.
One of my friends makes moviesand he's at a position where if
his movie does well, he getsresiduals and his movie just.
(21:55):
really knocked it out of thepark.
It's doing incredibly well.
And I'm sitting there going,wow, you know, for that year
that he worked on that projectfor the rest of his life, you
know,'cause this is one of thosemovies that's gonna have a long
thing.
He's going to be making incomefrom it.
So it's an investment that it'sgoing to keep giving the other
(22:19):
friend of mine.
Is she has just a bunch of smallrental properties.
So for her, she's getting theincome from the rentals, as well
as the property values increase,she's making money through that
aspect as well.
So it's finding and investmentscan be residual income.
(22:42):
Like, you know they just keepgiving there.
There's lots of ways you can doit.
I have a, another friend who shehas a big full-time job in town
and she's developing storylinesfor Disney.
Like, so there's lots of thingsthat you can do to kind of find
your own.
(23:03):
It has to be something that youenjoy because that's what, but
in a way where you're going tosee the payoff for a long period
of time.
Caroline (23:13):
I get it.
(23:59):
Welcome.
Back before the break, Kristenhad shared how entrepreneurship
gave her freedom and whyresidual income and personal
alignment becamenon-negotiables.
Now we shift into the nextchapter how she's reentered the
education world.
Why emotional intelligencebecame her mission and what
(24:19):
she's building now with the wethe people community.
Let's keep going.
How did you go then from kind ofhaving your own thing to then
getting back into, well, I guessdid you always, was the
entrepreneurship always the sidehustle or did it become the main
hustle and then you went backinto a full-time job and tell us
(24:42):
about that.
Kristin Hiemstra (24:43):
So I worked for one school, which was toxic,
and then I left that schoolright as the market crashed.
So the economy that I thoughtwas going to be there to support
me was not, but I had a set ofskills that I could then parlay
(25:07):
into another similar job workingfor a school.
So I did that and that ended upbeing a much healthier
organization.
So I stayed with that for areally long time.
And then I was like, okay, nowI'm ready to just walk away from
this particular side, because asa school counselor, you're
(25:30):
really, 80% of your time isspent dealing with some.
things that you really justdon't wanna spend your time
dealing with.
It's not, you don't have kidscoming in and talking to you.
It's administrivia.
So anyway, and so I decided thatthen to do, and so I've been on
my own now for quite a while.
Caroline (25:51):
And then you'd gone back
Kristin Hiemstra (25:52):
and you were teaching
Caroline (25:53):
in college.
How was that?
How
Kristin Hiemstra (25:56):
That was another really fun side hustle.
I taught MBA students at NorthCarolina State, emotional
intelligence and creatingorganizational culture, and I
loved it.
I loved it.
It was so much fun and it gaveme a chance to reconnect with my
corporate experience as well asto be the teacher teaching
(26:18):
content that I loved and thatkind of felt all in alignment.
And that's why, like I said, Icould not be a a high school
teacher'cause I didn't love anyof the content.
Like my husband teaches highschool history.
He loves history.
No one in high schools learningemotional intelligence and you
(26:41):
know, anthropology, things aboutorganizational culture Anyway,
so that was really fun for me toteach those programs.
And again, I got thatopportunity through a friend who
was a full professor there andthey were looking for people to
offer these particular thingsfor the leadership certificate.
(27:03):
And I happened to fit the bill.
Caroline (27:05):
Oh, that's so cool.
Why don't we teach emotionalintelligence in school?
Younger ages.
I feel like maybe of them aremontessori schools kind give
back culture that culture ofgrace and you know.
Even if I look at my own went tomontessori, one did not.
Kristin Hiemstra (27:22):
Oh, they all do.
Caroline (27:22):
They have different skills.
Kristin Hiemstra (27:24):
Oh, totally.
And private schools all teachit.
And teach it so well, I mean,and there's lots of programs,
but in the public school it hasbecome very controversial and it
is not.
I did a TED talk on this becauseit's so.
Caroline (27:40):
Did a great TED Talk.
Will link that in the show notestoo.
Kristin Hiemstra (27:43):
I mean, it's so imperative that kids learn
it.
But when you start talking aboutempathy, you have to start
talking about people who aredifferent than you are.
And that can include the colorof their skin, their sexuality,
their values, their religion,you know, all the isms.
Have to be addressed as youlearn how to be compassionate
(28:06):
and empathetic and you know, allof that.
And for people who are, in adifficult position position that
can be very triggering.
It makes them feel like you'regiving permission for kids to do
(28:27):
things that you're not, you'reyou're trying to say, you know,
this person, even though they'rea Muslim or you know, Jewish or
Christian or whatever, you know,and that is very, very
triggering, which is unfortunatebecause we're all souls trying
to figure out how to exist inthis planet, right?
(28:50):
now the California schoolsystems do an excellent job,
like it's integrated into theircurriculum, but they're also
kind of seen as these crazy leftwing liberals.
right?
But there's not a teacher whodoesn't want emotional
intelligence taught in theirclassroom because it changes the
dynamic.
It changes everything
Caroline (29:08):
How do you think that having emotional intelligence,
emotional, you know, resilience,does that equate to success or
fulfillment?
Kristin Hiemstra (29:19):
They're two different things.
I think you embody one of'em somuch, which is the self-worth,
right?
So if we teach children to trulyunderstand their value, to be
open to receiving constructivefeedback about being a dork or
(29:42):
being a jerk or whatever, butnot to let that impede their
understanding of their ownvalue.
Then that builds true confidencein them because they feel worthy
and they, also have greaterresilience because your message
(30:03):
to them is where we started thisconversation of iterating like,
you made a mistake.
Like, you know, you tried thismath problem and you didn't get
any of it right?
But what did you learn is verydifferent than.
Wow, you failed that.
Like, and so the internaldialogue gets totally changed
(30:24):
when, when that's theunderstanding, right?
The fulfillment.
And I do think schools could doa lot more to build true
confidence in students.
And it doesn't, it bothers me.
They're so academic, and I knowthat sounds weird, talking about
a school.
I also feel like schools areovertaxed with having too many
(30:45):
of society's problems to dealwith.
I don't think that's a fair,label to put on schools.
But, expanding what an educationis, I think would be beneficial
to all of us in, you know, likeschool shootings.
They aren't a thing when we weregrowing up.
Like, you know that's, and thepeople who are doing the
(31:06):
shootings are, they tend to beloners.
They tend not to have thoseskill sets.
I'm going off on a tangent here.
But I was shocked when we wouldhave a tragedy in the school, we
would always set up our crisisteams and the kids who came in
were the goth kids.
They weren't necessarily theother ones that had these big
support systems.
(31:27):
They were our most fragile kids.
And you wouldn't know that bylooking at them.
Caroline (31:32):
Yeah.
Kristin Hiemstra (31:32):
I remember being shocked.
Like, when I first had to gothrough that for the first time,
and then I just knew to expectit.
I was like, oh okay.
Now fulfillment is somethingwhere.
You have, it's almost like anurge from inside of you to do
something.
For example, you doing thispodcast, this urge, this desire,
(31:57):
it's like this drive, right?
This fire in your belly and thefulfillment comes from that
expression.
And you need both and I wish wehelped connect people more with
the fire in their belly so thatthey could, because the
fulfillment you get is likenothing else.
Caroline (32:17):
Yeah.
Kristin Hiemstra (32:17):
Because you're expressing your soul's purpose.
You're expressing, you know,what you came to do.
And so it's only in that momentwhere you're gonna find the
alignment that you're lookingfor.
Caroline (32:32):
I think sometimes people are just so busy in the
moment of what they thinkthey're to supposed do.
That their not
Kristin Hiemstra (32:38):
totally.
Caroline (32:38):
silent enough to listen and realize.
Hey, I was put here on purposefor a purpose only I can do, and
what is that?
And the longer that I'm, youknow, settling, the longer that
I'm just life pass by and notfully living it, the more I that
not only am I missing out on myown true
Kristin Hiemstra (32:57):
Okay.
Caroline (32:58):
things.
But the world is missing out onwhat I can contribute.
Kristin Hiemstra (33:02):
it,
Caroline (33:02):
Why do you think people are getting this wrong?
That they're not feeling ortrusting or taking a leap to go
do their purpose.
Kristin Hiemstra (33:14):
Well, I think you hit it.
I think they're afraid.
I think fear is a big piece ofit because first of all.
You need health insurance and weare not a nation where you are
insured and so you have nosafety net.
That's why I feel like thoseside hustles are so important to
(33:34):
have an expression for thatenergy because you do have to
support yourself.
And you know, I did a lot ofresearch on organizational
culture.
I research Denmark quite a bitbecause they are the happiest
country.
They have the happiestemployees.
I surveyed a lot of'em.
Most of'em were seven outta 10happy at their work.
(33:55):
And they have all these systemsset up.
To make sure that the person isdoing a role they like, and if
that person loses their job,that they have a support system
and ample income, so they're notlike, you know, that panic
doesn't set in.
So I think until people feelsafe and it's emotionally,
(34:18):
physically, psychologically,spiritually, because the other
thing is when you're talkingabout somebody's soul calling
it.
you know, that, quote in theBible, light under a bushel, you
know, don't put your light undera bushel.
But that light is also sofragile that the first time you
(34:38):
come out with it.
Again, getting back to thisiteration thing, it may not land
with anybody.
And then you're like, oh, youknow, because you've taken a
risk and you haven't succeededand it's been something that's,
that's sacred to you and thathurts a lot.
So so you might like push it onthe back burner.
(35:00):
And then there's also thenarrative in society that
success is equated with financesor, you know, having a lot of
economic power.
And so like I can't tell you howmany bored overworked or how
many people hate being lawyers.
Like there's a reason that it'scalled, you know.
(35:21):
The job that people do that theyhate, and recovering lawyer is
the thing that, you know, youfind my nurse was a lawyer.
Like you find a lot of peoplewho have done that.
But I think to your point, notreflecting because it's.
And there's also, I wanna addparental, I don't know who your
(35:42):
audience is, but there are somecultures where the parents
define what the job is going tobe.
You're gonna be a doctor, you'regonna be an engineer, you're
gonna be, and, and that'salready defined for the student,
and they just know what theyneed to do to follow in those
footsteps,
Caroline (36:00):
Yeah.
I've experienced, not, not mepersonally.
I've known lot of people
Kristin Hiemstra (36:05):
right?
Caroline (36:05):
who you know, spend alot of time doing something.
And even if they do it well.
Kristin Hiemstra (36:10):
Right,
Caroline (36:11):
But their life because they're acting out somebody
else's definition of success,somebody else's definition of
what their life could be insteadof fully embracing and stepping
into their own.
Kristin Hiemstra (36:23):
Hundred percent.
And it doesn't even have to bean intimate, like, it doesn't
even have to be a parent.
It can be society's idea.
Like you think, oh, you know,society wants, I'm going to be
an You know, that's gonna begreat.
You know, like, what is it?
The only person that reallyshould care is you.
So.
Caroline (36:41):
That's true.
So, you mentioned that before wegot on this, that you're in the
midst of a career transitionyourself.
Kristin Hiemstra (36:47):
Yeah.
Caroline (36:49):
What's all that about?
Kristin Hiemstra (36:51):
So right now as I look at the political
system, it is broken.
In my opinion, and I don't likeit.
And I was like, well, who'sgonna fix it?
And I couldn't come up withanybody.
(37:12):
And I was like, well, that meansthat it's something I can work
on because the people that I seewhen I say who's gonna fix it to
me, it's still locked in partyideologies.
And most of the people I talk toon both sides believe that the
(37:35):
system is broken the way thatit's doing now.
So I'm starting an organization,it's called.
We the people and it's dotcommunity.
I loved that I was able to getthat website.
Wethepeople.community.
Because community is, if youlook at the founding Fathers
intentions, that's really whatit was like, bringing together
(37:59):
people in a positive way to selfgovern.
And we have abdicated a lot ofour power as.
Citizens and so I don't know.
Again, going back to the wholeiterative thing, I don't know
exactly what it's gonna looklike.
It's truly like, if you think ofit in terms of a person, it's an
(38:20):
infant.
Like I'm staring at it going,what's your personality going to
be like?
You know anybody who's had akid, right?
Your kid comes out and you'relike, I don't know who you are.
You're gonna show me over timeand I'm going to.
So that's the stage I am rightnow.
I'm looking at it going, I knowthis is what I want.
I want this so much.
I'm not sure what it's going tolook like.
(38:41):
But I'm still doing my collegecoaching.
I'm still doing some careerstuff.
Like I'm still doing thosepieces as I move to this next
chapter.
So it becomes fluid.
Caroline (38:52):
So you're building this new thing while still.
Utilizing the tools and thesystems that you made for your
the other ones too.
Kristin Hiemstra (39:01):
Absolutely.
Caroline (39:02):
That's so cool.
Kristin Hiemstra (39:05):
And that system has worked for me.
Caroline (39:08):
So how can people find you?
Like what could people get yourhelp with and how do they find
Kristin Hiemstra (39:14):
Sure.
Caroline (39:15):
you?
Which place should they go toactually get your time.
Kristin Hiemstra (39:17):
Right.
So my website is art ofpotential.com and then I have we
the people.community, and Idon't have, that will probably
be up by the time this is, youknow, aired and whatnot.
But that is gonna be iterative.
But if you, have coaching, lifecoaching, career coaching.
(39:41):
College coaching, all thosethings.
That's art of potential is thewebsite to reach me?
Caroline (39:48):
Awesome.
I do a lot with trying to helppeople find authentic success.
How do you define authenticsuccess for you in this moment?
Kristin Hiemstra (40:02):
It's when I feel that I'm expressing what my
soul's purpose is in the careerformat.
I mean, I think we have manypurposes life lessons.
Like I think one of yourpurposes for being in this world
was to learn how to feel worthy,right?
Like that's additional.
But you're also part of your youknow, there's a lot of mirrors
(40:25):
to many facets of us.
This career piece is also youlike being authentic and
expressing you have this amazingskillset, you know, and it feels
like your giving, it's the joyof the giving of what you have
to offer is what I feel.
Then you've hit your authenticspot when you're super excited
(40:49):
and we all know people who likethrow up their gift on you and
you're like, oh, I didn't wantthat.
Right.
So you do have to find yourtribe, like the people are gonna
resonate with it.
But that to me, and then theother piece I would say is
there's an authenticity aboutgrowing and realizing we're here
(41:13):
to expand and become more and tolearn and give ourself grace as
we're doing that, and giveothers grace as they're doing it
as well.
So that's where I feel like.
The authenticity pieces.
And you can't be authenticunless you've done a personal
(41:33):
inventory, unless you know whatyou're about.
And that it's trial and error aswell as, you know, a deep dive.
Like it's both end.
Caroline (41:42):
That's true.
Well I want to thank you so muchfor being on this podcast,
sharing a little bit more aboutyour gifts and talents, your
journeys.
I'm here to normalizequestioning your career and also
support everyone with thosestories.
Kristin Hiemstra (41:59):
You know, a hundred percent and you know,
the statistics as well as I do,it's about every seven years.
The seven year itch is, it's areal thing that you see people
starting to, there's a cyclethat's involved so.
Caroline (42:12):
Well, thank you kristen, for being part of your
Next Success.
And I can't wait to hear moreabout your Next Success
Kristin Hiemstra (42:18):
I know, right?
Caroline (42:19):
we the people dot community
Kristin Hiemstra (42:19):
Me neither.
Caroline (42:21):
Maybe we'll have to have you back to, update
everybody on how that goes.
Kristin Hiemstra (42:26):
Yeah.
Well, let me get a little bit,I'd love to talk about it more
when I know more about it,
Caroline (42:32):
If this conversation stirred something in you, don't
push it aside.
That pull you feel, thatwhisper.
It is not a coincidence.
You can connect with Kristin atwww.art of potential.com or
explore her new initiative atWethePeople.community.
She's a TEDx speaker, coach,educator, and someone who has
(42:55):
walked the very path.
She now helps others navigatewith wisdom, depth, and grace.
And if you're ready to alignyour life and career in a way
that finally fits, visitnextsuccesscareers.com to
explore tools, coaching andcourses to guide you forward.
Kristin, thank you so much forsharing your heart, your story,
(43:16):
and your insight with us.
It is such a gift to hearsomeone speak from lived
experience, not just knowledge.
And I know so many listeners arewalking away with more clarity
and hope today.
You don't have to keepperforming a version of success
that leaves you drained.
You don't have to wait forsomething to break before you
(43:37):
choose something better and youare not behind.
Your Next Success isn'tsomewhere far off.
It is already within you, justwaiting to be lived.
Thanks for listening.
I am grateful that you are here,and I'll see you next time.
Keep going.
You're not done yet.
Thanks for listening to YourNext Success with Dr.
(43:59):
Caroline Sangal.
Remember, authentic success isyours to define and includes
aligning your career to supportthe life you want.
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