Ray Martin: Life Without a Tie — Redefining Success, Freedom, and Joy

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What if the version of success you built isn’t the one meant for you?

In this episode of Your Next Success, Dr. Caroline Sangal sits down with Ray Martin, author of Life Without a Tie and founder of The Daily Explorer.

Ray is an entrepreneur, award-winning business leader, coach, mentor, facilitator, speaker, writer, and mindfulness teacher. After decades of achievement, he realized that success without authenticity was empty—and began a new journey toward simplicity, freedom, and joy.

You’ll hear:

•  The moment Ray realized he needed to redefine success
•  How to know when achievement has replaced alignment
•  Why letting go opens space for fulfillment
•  What authentic success looks like after the fast lane

 🌿 Learn more about Ray → https://lifewithoutatie.com

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Learn more about Next Success www.nextsuccesscareers.com

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
What would make a successfulbusiness leader sell everything
he owns?
Walk away from the life he builtand turn a six month sabbatical
into 14 years of discovery?
This is the Your Next Successpodcast, and I'm your host, Dr.

(00:25):
Caroline Sangal.
I'm a life first career coachand strategist on a mission to
normalize questioning yourcareer because I believe each of
us is made on purpose for apurpose only we can fulfill.
The longer we live out ofalignment with who we are, what
we do best, and why we're here,the more we miss out.

(00:45):
And the more the world missesout on what only we can give.
The Your Next Success Podcast iswhere we explore how to build a
career that truly fuels yourlife.
We talk about self-discovery,smart job, search strategies,
professional growth, and you'llhear stories from people who've
navigated big career transitionsthemselves so you can see what

(01:09):
it's really like to make boldchanges and feel inspired to
create your own version ofauthentic success, one that is
aligned, meaningful, and trulyyours.
In this episode of Your NextSuccess, I sit down with Ray
Martin, he's an entrepreneur,award-winning business leader,

(01:30):
marathon runner, mindfulnessteacher and author of Life
Without a Tie.
Ray was once named BusinessLeader of the Year.
But after a series of lifechanges, the end of his
marriage, the loss of hisfather, and cracks in his
company, he chose to step awayfrom everything.

(01:52):
What started as a shortsabbatical became 14 years
across 28 countries, raisingmoney for orphanages, running
marathons, and refining what itmeans to live authentically.
We talk about the differencebetween the noisy inner critic
and the quiet voice ofintuition, the calculation that

(02:14):
showed him how many days hemight have left, and the guiding
principles and rules forhappiness that still shape his
life today.
This is about listening inward,choosing courage, and creating a
life of real fulfillment.

Caroline (02:33):
Welcome Ray to Your Next Success.
So you have had such an amazinglife.
Outwardly successful, inwardlyunfulfilled, and now I believe
you're outwardly and inwardlysuccessful, and joyful.
As you know, one of the thingsthat I'm trying to do is

(02:55):
normalize questioning yourcareer, pivoting, and you are
such an example of what it lookslike to do that and it all turn
out so beautifully that you'vewritten a book.
Over 400 pages of awesomeness ofwhat it's like to just embark on

(03:15):
a wonderful self-developmentjourney.
So we are gonna get into that,but I'd love to dial it back.
Thinking about your childhood,tell us where you grew up, what
life was like for you as achild.

Ray (03:31):
Yeah out of what I'd consider to be a normal
upbringing, I grew up in alittle suburb of London, like
about an hour away from thecapital.
And went to a school, hadhardworking parents who just
wanted me and my brother to justget an education and get decent
life.
They'd come from quite a life ofhardship and think their goal
was just to make sure we didn'tstruggle as much as they had

(03:54):
when they were parents.
So, my brother and I havefocused on just getting good
grades at school and followingwhat I now refer to as an off
the shelf life story.
Which is you know, to be happyand successful in life.
You get married, you get kids,you get a good job.
Get a house and all of thatequals happiness.

(04:14):
So you are led to believe.
And so I would never reallyquestion that when I was a
child, the only thing I didquestion when I was sort of 10
or 11 made no sense to megrowing up in the sixties was
that friends of my parentsseemed to work really, really
hard.
And then when they retired, theydidn't live very long.
They just dropped dead withinthree or four years, most of

(04:35):
them.
And it always struck me as achild, why would human beings
just work all their whole lifeand then just have this very
little time at the end, toreally do life and enjoy life
and play and travel and learnand all these things?
Just to find that it's very,very short I thought that just
doesn't make any sense.
So adults should maybe worktwice as hard in their life or

(04:57):
twice as productively let's say,for half of the years they work
and earn twice as much, so thenthey got half their life off to
spend the money they'veaccumulated, and play and learn
and travel and do all thosethings.
And I kept asking my teachers,why don't we do that?
And none of them could reallyanswer, of course.

Caroline (05:16):
Cause they were still following the script.

Ray (05:18):
But no one knew what I was really talking about.
Even I didn't really know howthat would work in practice, but
I always had this vision as ayoung child that I'd somehow
accumulate as much as I could inthe first half of my life, had
say to about 40 or 45, and thenhave Less pressure to do that,
more time to actually live mylife fully.
And I didn't know, I forgotabout it for years and years

(05:40):
until my sort of life I builtcame crashing down.
And then in the aftermath of thecrash, I remember that thinking
as a child and I came back toit.

Caroline (05:49):
Ah, yeah.
So let's talk a little bit aboutbefore that crashing down.
So when you were, I guess inhigh school, I don't know what
they call it there, but theequivalent of high school

Ray (06:00):
Secondary school.

Caroline (06:01):
Secondary school, and then you went on to, I guess,
university.
What were you thinking youwanted to study, thinking you
wanted to do?

Ray (06:08):
Actually I didn't go to university funnily enough,
because that was part of thevision I had, was to be a
successful and respectedbusinessman.
And in the way I looked at it atthe time, I most, when I asked
all my friends at school whatthey're gonna do at university,
most of'em said, I don't reallyknow.
I'm not sure what I wanna dowith my life.
I'll just do anything, to fillthe time.
And that didn't seem like to mea good way of choosing.

(06:30):
I thought, no, I've actually gotthis vision of being a
successful businessman.
I might as well just go into theworkplace and start learning how
to do that straight away.
So when I was 16, I startedworking.
I worked in a bank.
And I started to accumulateknowledge and understanding of
the business world.
I was shocked by some of thethings I saw.
But I started to accumulateknowledge with a goal in mind of

(06:50):
eventually having my ownbusiness at some point.
Didn't know when that would be.

Caroline (06:55):
But still you had vision.
You had such a vision.

Ray (06:57):
Yeah.
I just thought, I really want toget on with it.
I wanna learn skills and getinvolved, get my hands dirty in
business and really learn fromthere.
And I believed in myself enoughto think that I could do what I
needed to do.
And actually start my owncompany when I was 37.

Caroline (07:16):
Yeah.
And prior to that, I think youworked in a company that you
described it as a, as more likea family or like a tribe.
So what was it about thatcompany culture that that you
were fortunate enough to be infor a while that was really
special for you?
Or what did you wanna bring intoyour own company?

Ray (07:33):
I think I was very lucky.
I managed to find stumble acrossa group of people that had an
interest in being who they areand really being authentic in
their lives at work and in therest of their lives.
And they thought that one of theways that could be mirrored
would be to create a culture inour workplace of truthful and

(07:53):
authentic communication.
People being really giving eachother radical challenge and
radical support to live theirdreams and do something
brilliant in society and reallyhelping each other grow and
develop and learn leadership andcommunication skills so we could
do something amazing in society.
One particular guy had thatvision and we all bought into it
and thought it was brilliant andI learned a lot from working

(08:16):
within that group.
And one of the things thatRobert, his name was always used
to say to us, for those of youthat really want to be truly
wealthy, and that was addressingthe thing I had when I was a
kid.
You know you're never gonna bewealthy on a salary working as
an employee.
You've got to, if you reallywanna create wealth, you're
gonna have to build your ownorganization.

(08:36):
So that, for those of you whoare interested in that, I'll
help and support you on thatjourney.
So it was brilliant to be inthat group.

Caroline (08:44):
How special.
How special.
And especially in the eightiestoo.

Ray (08:48):
It was really, really rare.

Caroline (08:50):
Yeah, I think it's maybe one of those things where
the universe is planting you inpositions to be able to
accumulate that information.
Okay.
So then you decide, you knowwhat?
I do wanna start my own company.
So what did you choose to do andhow, what kind of leap was that
for you?

Ray (09:08):
I've always been really fascinated by what makes people
grow and develop and performwell, and how do you get people
aligned around a purpose and amission and a vision and what
really motivates people?
Because I was interested to knowit for myself so I could be
motivated, but I was fascinatedby all of that.
And, I worked in an organizationthat did leadership development,

(09:29):
coaching, training of leaders tohelp them get this
understanding.
And then when I saw how I wasdoing it as part of that
company, as an employee, Ithought I could see at least
three or four ways we couldinnovate that and make it much
better and improve it if we wereto launch our own.
This is, say me and my businesspartner,

Caroline (09:47):
Yeah.

Ray (09:48):
also worked in the same organization with me, there were
two of us who had this pictureof how we could make it better
and differentiate ourselves andhow we could take it to the next
level if we left and set up ourown company.
And I was in sales, so I hadlots of clients and contacts who
bought services.
So I thought all I've got to dois I've got just to work as hard

(10:09):
as I do for the company I'm anemployee of.
If I work that hard for myselfjust offer something that's
better and improved and theclients like it, we'll be okay.
And that's exactly whathappened.

Caroline (10:20):
And so in that season, how did you define success and
measure success?
What did you think you werechasing?

Ray (10:26):
Yeah, I think I partly defined it in terms of what our
reputation would be in themarketplace.
You know, that we would be seenas one of the best companies in
our field.
But, I also partly thinkunconsciously slightly defined
it as the amount of materialsuccess that would come from it.
So like having a nice home andall the trappings of a good

(10:47):
life.
But what I didn't really thinkabout so much was the feeling of
it.
And I remember saying to mybusiness partner that what was
most important to me was tobuild something I was truly
proud of that someone could walkinto our offices see me and the
team of people that we wereworking together, that we lived

(11:07):
our principles.
A bit like Gandhi in India.
He used to say when he was askedby reporters on his journey
around India, what his messagewas for the press, he would say,
my life is my message.
And he meant it in the way thathe lived was his message.
And I felt the same.
I thought, if I can live this,truly embrace it and embody it

(11:27):
and live it, and demonstrate itand show that it produces a
better outcome than the otherways that companies are doing
this, then that would be enough.
And that was acknowledged andrecognized because in 2002,
after doing it for about five orsix years, chosen by The Daily
Telegraph, which is a businessnewspaper in England, I was
chosen as the business leader ofthe year to receive their

(11:49):
Business Leader of the Yearaward.
That was recognition that I'dactually done exactly what I'd
set out to do.
It was one of my proudestmoments when that happened.

Caroline (11:58):
Yeah.
And did you celebrate it?
'cause sometimes, people aresetting a desire or a goal or
achievement and it comes andthey just quickly set another
one.
So you're always.

Ray (12:08):
Guilty, guilty.
I did that little, but it wasstill a great moment, even for a
short while.
And yeah, and we celebrated it.
I celebrated it.
I and everyone in the companydid too, it was a great moment
'cause it really elevated us upinto the league table of small
consulting businesses.

Caroline (12:23):
And so then business is booming

Ray (12:26):
Yeah, it was pretty good for a short while, but then I
didn't realize, that thebusiness partner I've referred
to a couple of times was alsothe woman I was married to.
So she was my wife and businesspartner.
And, one day a about six monthsafter that moment, she came back
from a meeting and very suddenlyand unexpectedly announced that
she was leaving the company and,

Caroline (12:45):
Oh.

Ray (12:45):
the marriage.
And I didn't see that coming andit really shocked me to my core.
And very shortly afterwards,almost at the same time, my
father got very ill, and he diedshortly afterwards.
And so within a three monthperiod of that lovely event, I
was outta my home.
I was losing my marriage.
My company was gonna changeirrevocably, and my dad had

(13:06):
gone.
So, it was an awfully difficulttime for me.
I kind of went into a very darkspiral at that moment.

Caroline (13:13):
What did that feel like, you know, to have been at
this highest highs and kind ofliving out what you thought was
success?
The house, the beautiful life,the business, the partner, the
wife, the everything and then

Ray (13:27):
Yeah.
Well.

Caroline (13:27):
Rugs pulled out.

Ray (13:28):
As you can imagine the feeling was gloomy dark.
I thought I'll never be happyagain.
I felt broken.
I felt a lot of guilt and shamebecause I appeared publicly to
the world to have had goteverything and be really
successful.
But here I was with my life intaters and my marriage failing
and stuff like that.
And I sort of felt a bit like afraud, if I'm honest.

(13:49):
I was worried I'd be, you know,the imposter syndrome coming
around.

Caroline (13:54):
Yeah.

Ray (13:54):
I was really worried I would be exposed in that way, or
at least all my staff and teammembers would be questioning.
Did I really mean all the thingsthat I said I had as values and
lived by, and I did, but itjust, these were events were not
in my control.
I couldn't really, uh, preventedit, I don't think so, it was

(14:14):
like also made me wonder what Ineeded to learn and I went into
a period of deep reflection andI really wanted to.
Really learn what I could fromthe, all of those events
happening.
So I never repeated it again.
I was just a bit stuck, to behonest, for quite a while.

Caroline (14:32):
And yet you're stuck.
And then you had this, somecould think of as a radical idea
To do something different.
Tell us a little bit about that.

Ray (14:43):
Well I was really so down for about a year, I couldn't see
a way out of it, and a friendsaid to me.
One of the ways you can getyourself out of your funk if you
are really low is you justforget about yourself for a
while and find someone whoreally needs help and go a
hundred percent in service tothem.
Do that and you really do it ahundred percent and you forget

(15:04):
about yourself.
Maybe something in the universewill crack open or some new
insight or a land on your, inyour thinking.

Caroline (15:11):
Hmm.

Ray (15:11):
So I trusted that piece of advice and I found out that a
friend of mine in Australia hadbreast cancer.
And so I contacted her and saidshe had a husband and a very
young son and she was about tostart chemo.
And I said, how would you feelif I came out for a month and
sort of took care of you andjust was around supporting you
and the family?
She said, oh, that would bebrilliant.
Yeah, I'd love that.
So I arranged to go out thereand I also knew another friend

(15:35):
who lived a little bit furtheraway from her in Sydney, but I
thought I'll visit her too atthe same time'cause it's on the
other side of the world toEngland.

Caroline (15:43):
Yeah.

Ray (15:44):
So I went there for a month.
Did my act of service and it waslovely, but nothing much had
changed, to be honest.
And I thought, oh, that adviceprobably wasn't that great.
I still feel as messed up as Idid before.
I went up to Cairns to see myother friend, Judy Parker, and
when I arrived she said, me andmy mum are going to the theater
tomorrow night.
You know, do you want us to getyou a ticket for the play?
I said, yeah, please.

(16:06):
We went to see this play at thetheater, and I saw in the
program that the productioncompany at the theater were
putting on a play called Out OfOrder, which is about a British
member of Parliment.
It's by Ray Cooney.
It's quite well known play ifyou know anything about that.
I turned to them as a joke andsaid, I should be in that play.
I'm from Britain.
I've got the perfect accent.
I mean, I'm not an actor.

(16:26):
I didn't have any experience, Iwas just joking, really.
And they looked at me seriouslyand said, well, we know the
director of the play.
Why don't you go to the auditionon Sunday?
I thought, that's a waste oftime.
I said, that's crazy.
I've got no experience.
I'm going home on Tuesday afterthe audition to England.
I mean, I can't be in the playand I'd never get picked anyway.
I said, well, why don't you justgo for fun?

(16:47):
So I thought, yeah, why not?
I'll go for fun.
It's a good learning experience.
So I went to this audition,threw myself into it, and I
couldn't believe it.
Honestly, couldn't believe it.
I got offered the leading rolein the play, the main central
character, comedic character ofthe whole thing.
I was blown away and I said tothe director, are you off your
mind?
You know, are you sure aboutthis?

(17:08):
You got a theater full of payingcustomers, and I'm a very high
risk choice.
I've never done anything likethis before.
They said, Ray, we reallybelieve that you would be the
best person and we know you'vegot no experience, but we'll get
you ready.
Three months of rehearsals ifyou are here, we'll make sure
you're ready.
And, uh,

Caroline (17:27):
That's so exciting.
You had nothing to lose,literally nothing to lose.

Ray (17:31):
I made about three or four phone calls to clients who were
expecting me to work with themand help them in the UK.
And I told them this story.
I said, look, I've been to thisaudition.
I wasn't expecting it, but Ifeel like I'm being called to do
this by some higher power.
I said, I feel really bad butI'm not gonna do it unless you
give me a hundred percentblessing to postpone the work we
have.
Because if you say you reallyneed me to do that work, I'll do

(17:51):
it.
'Cause one of my values isintegrity, reliability.

Caroline (17:55):
Yeah.

Ray (17:55):
So they all said, no, I'll give you my blessing.
Go and do that.
I think that would be servingyou really well to do that, go
and do it.
'cause they knew mycircumstance.
And I said, brilliant.
So I stayed in Australia forthree more months and did the
play.
And it was just life changing.
It was amazing.
I loved it.
I found parts.
I've had to play this charactercalled George Pickton.
So I had to learn how to be him,how you know, his voice clothes

(18:18):
and everything.
And then on the plane, on theway home to England.
After it had all finished, Inoticed I had this feeling of
dread in my body.
I was so miserable about goinghome.
I was thinking, God, I've got togo back to life as Ray the
businessman again, and I don'treally want to, and then I
suddenly, it suddenly hit melike someone a hammer in the

(18:41):
middle of my forehead.
I went, oh my God.
Ray the businessman is just acharacter that I've created over
all these years.
It's not me.
I'm not that guy.
I'm playing that guy.
But that's me and that characterare separate.
I can choose a differentcharacter.
There's a coach called TonyRobbins.
I dunno if you've heard of him.
He's American.

Caroline (19:01):
Absolutely.
He's got a lot of my money.
Very good stuff.

Ray (19:04):
You know, and his books are very informative and in his
teachings, he says, you know,you're not just the actor in
your story.
You are the script writer andthe director too.
So if you want to change the waythe story is unfolding, you can
change the script.
You can make changes to yourcharacter, you can change your
dialogue, but also you can killoff the series completely.
You can just write yourself out.

Caroline (19:24):
Yeah.

Ray (19:25):
I decided on the back of that epiphany, I decided to kill
off the series of Ray, thebusinessman.
Just say, right, I'm not doingthis anymore.
I quit being a businessman.
I'm being a CEO.
I'm just done with that.
Whatever I do next, it's gonnabe something new.
So that's what happened.

Caroline (19:39):
And you had been successful and saved up and, and
now, were you realizing yet thatyou are living out that Inner
desire?

Ray (19:51):
I had to do the settlement of financial matters in my
divorce, you know, I had to gointo the details of finance.
I wasn't anywhere near aswealthy as I thought I would be
when I was 11.
But when I started to look atit.
Actually.
I'm in quite a good positionhere.
I could actually follow theadvice of my friend Julie who'd
said to me while I was inAustralia doing the place.
She said, why don't you take asix month sabbatical and go and

(20:13):
do some traveling and get newinsight into life itself.
Just start from a clean sheetand see what you find.
And, and she meant go to Asiabecause that's where all the
eastern philosophy and mysticismwas and you know, to tap into
some of that.
So when she first said that tome, I thought it was a
ridiculous idea.
But now I'd done the plan, hadthis insight.

(20:34):
I thought actually doing a sixmonths sabbatical is quite a
good idea.
And the only thing that wasstopping me was I had this huge
mortgage on the house in London.

Caroline (20:42):
Hmm.

Ray (20:43):
It was a house I didn't really wanna live in anymore.
So I decided to sell the housein London.
And that was a game changingdecision because without that, I
wasn't tied to any property orwork.
I had no kids.
So I wasn't tied to any myfamily that decision totally
untied me.
From the life I'd created, thecharacter I'd built.

(21:04):
And that's why my book's calledLife Without a Tie because that
was the act of untying.

Caroline (21:09):
Yes.
Yes.
And so you sell the house andnearly all your possessions.
I mean, I think there's even abible verse like, if you really
want, to do well, you gotta sellall your stuff and, and then
come and follow me.

Ray (21:23):
But I have been inspired by, Ryan Nicodemus and Joshua
Fields Milburn, who produced thebook, The Minimalists, and they
made a documentary on Netflixabout living minimally and an
experiment in their apartmentswhere they got the entire
contents of their apartmentsinto boxes in their hallway and
very carefully monitored whatthey took out only what they

(21:44):
actually needed, like atoothbrush or a saucepan or
whatever it was.
And they said they used about 3%of the stuff they owned and the
rest just sat in the boxes andthey realized how much stuff
that they and other people werecarrying.
And they also read a book calledStuffocation by James Wallman,
which kind of echoed thosethemes, but also said the way
that society is shifting inawareness and understanding is

(22:08):
like I grew up in the generationwith values based on
materialism.
You were somebody, if you had alot of stuff, if you'd
accumulated a lot of wealth,physically, you know, material
wealth.
the younger generations like GenZ and Millennials, they were
starting to say, no, we don'tcare about the stuff we value
being free to have experiences.
We want experiences.

(22:28):
He called that experientialismvalues based on experientialism.
And I was relating to that and Iwas thinking, I want that too.
I don't wanna be encumbered bystuff.
So I found a way to either sellor give away everything that I
had in the house.

Caroline (22:42):
How did that make you feel?
Like when you first starteddoing it?
Did you think, oh, what the heckare you doing?
Are you doing the right thing?

Ray (22:49):
Ofcourse, I had massive doubts.

Caroline (22:50):
Yeah.

Ray (22:51):
My mom.
My dad passed away, but my momthought I was crazy.
And people I knew sort ofthought, why don't you just rent
the house and keep it?
And there were all sorts ofnaysayers like that.
But I sort of just followed thefeeling.
As the three principles, SydneyBanks, who channeled the three
principles says you just followthe feeling, follow the energy
of the feeling.

(23:11):
And I was doing that causethat's like my inner wisdom
talking, that's our innerwisdom.
It speaks to us through thefeeling.
And so I knew I was right.

Caroline (23:18):
But how do you distinguish though, like how do
you distinguish between the,what the heck are you doing?
You crazy?
And the inner feeling of yeah,this is it.

Ray (23:29):
That's a good question.

Caroline (23:31):
How do you know?

Ray (23:31):
One is they come from different parts of the body,
because the rational mind is italways feels like it's up here.
But the feeling is down in yourbelly and you just know even
when the thoughts that you arehaving are alarming or worrying,
you know if it's right.
You know you're doing the rightthing.
I dunno how you know, but youjust know.
And then the second thing Istarted to do was I would look
for confirmation signals thatwould confirm to me.

(23:54):
So for example, do I do the playor not?
I've got all these financialobligations, it's gonna cost me
quite a lot of money to stopworking for three months and not
have to pay my mortgage.
Am I being reckless and stupidand irresponsible, or am I doing
the greater power in theuniverse wants me to do, What

(24:14):
should I do?

Caroline (24:15):
Yeah.

Ray (24:15):
So I'm at this fork in the road and need to make a
decision.
I thought, I know I'll get aconfirmation signal.
I'll put this into the hands ofall these clients I've obligated
myself to.
And if every single one of them,not just one or two, but a
hundred percent of them give metheir blessing.
I'll take as a signal that theuniverse wants me to do this.
And if they say no, I'll take itas a signal i'm not meant to do

(24:38):
it.
So I got the blessing from allof them and that gave me the
confirmation signal that Ineeded.
That's how I knew.
Yeah.

Caroline (24:46):
And so you sell your house, you sell your stuff.
You're thinking of embarking onthis journey, six months
sabbatical, somewhere, nebulous,maybe in Asia.
Did you have a itinerary or aplan or like what.
I've heard you saying like 22,was it kilos or something?

(25:07):
Was your backpack?
How'd you decide what got to gowith you?

Ray (25:11):
Because I just took what I think I'd need for the journey
ahead, six months of clothes anda laptop computer, which is the
main thing.
In a period where I was to sellthe house and put it on the
market, I'd actually had starteddating someone in London who I
met through a friend.
Who was also gonna go and go toThailand and sort of set up a
life there.

(25:32):
So, and she'd sort of suggestedthat we might do it together.
She was slightly worried, thatwe didn't know each other that
well, but I said, well, you canjust come and move into my house
while I'm selling it, and we'regonna have a crash course
relationship.
We're either gonna.
Walk away from each other beforeeither of us leaves or we'll go
together, we'll know, you know,we'll find out.

Caroline (25:51):
Yeah.

Ray (25:51):
That worked out well.
And she'd moved in, well withina couple of days.
And we did go to Thailandtogether.
I wrote about her name's Annie.
I wrote about her in the book.
And so I had someone who wemapped out and itinerary with.
And so we had like a plan forthe first few months.
But I realized once I was therefour or five months, it probably
wasn't enough time.
I was in a beautiful setting,Thailand's all luscious and

(26:15):
paradise, beaches, and stuff,but I was full of fear, anxiety,
guilt, shame.
I just was so mentally noisy andagitated.
I wasn't comfortable.
And I was looking to try andfind a way to get more inner
peace.
And I came across someone whosaid, why don't you do a
vipassana meditation retreat?
I never heard of that.

(26:36):
I didn't know what the hell theywere talking about.
But I've discovered it's a 10day silent meditation retreat in
a Buddhist monastery with monksin Thailand, and they teach you
the Buddhist Dharma teaching.
You know, it brings peace ofmind through and observation of
what of your own mind.
And so that's what I did.
I did that.

Caroline (26:56):
And you just were like, I'm in for character
building experiences.

Ray (27:01):
So the idea of being silent for 10 days was just like, what?
Well, I'll give this a go.
I'll do it to my best ability.
And I found it was game changerfor me.
I came out of that monastery andas if I'd had a knob on the side
of my head, like a volume dial,it

Caroline (27:16):
Yeah.

Ray (27:16):
up to 10 out of 10 on the noise level when I went in and
when I walked out 10 days later,it was like someone had turned
it down to a 1 out of 10.
I felt so calm and so serene andgrounded, and started to see the
future of my life unfolding.
And I knew I wasn't ready to goback to the UK.
I wanted to stay longer.
And it evolved my mindfulnesspractice, which I just acquired,

(27:39):
I wanted to develop it andbecome more mindful and find us
a group that was meditatingregularly, somewhere in Asia I
could join.
So I decided to stay longer.

Caroline (27:49):
Oh yeah.
And, and so that six months.

Ray (27:53):
Ultimately, turned into 14 years.
I lived outta my backpack.
I never had any idea it would,but one thing after one thing
led to another, like I'd beenthere a year or two.
In the pursuit of thismindfulness experience I was
talking about, and I started tosort of visit places which
touched my soul and my heart.
An elephant sanctuary inThailand and an orphanage in

(28:15):
Nepal.
I ran a picnic for 60 orphanchildren, and I saw the power of
that kind of generosity andgiving and support than what the
difference it made.
So I thought, I wish I could dosomething to help these people.
I didn't know what to do.
And then I met a guy randomlyCaroline, who had run six
marathons.
He was 10 years younger than me.

Caroline (28:34):
Yeah.

Ray (28:35):
He told me about running marathons.
And I, as he's described it, Igot all these tingles in my body
and I thought, gosh, sounds likethere's something in this for
me.
I said to him, Matt, his name,Matt, do you think I could a
marathon because I would bewanting to do it, to raise money
for the orphanage?
And looked at me, he said, well,you look quite fit.
Have you ever run before?
I said, no, I never.
He said, if you stay here whereI live for six months, which is

(28:57):
a place called Chiang Mai.
If you stay here for six months,I'll train you how to run your
first marathon and you can dothat and raise money.
that's what I agreed to do.
And I went into training withhim and about months later, I
ran the New York Marathon 1st ofNovember, 2009, and managed to
raise$15,000 from businesscontacts and people that I knew.

(29:19):
And I had this big pile of moneyto then take back to Asia and
give it to these causes and getstuff done.
And that disposing of it took meanother year.

Caroline (29:28):
But how did that feel?
How was your definition ofsuccess changing and how was it
feeling now?

Ray (29:34):
It was changing all the time.
It was like moving towards whatcan I give all the time?
You know how it was like deeplygoing in that direction.
How can I be of service tohumanity?
What can I do?
What can I give?
How can I contribute?
And I was loving that shift, andI wasn't really concerned at all
about my own badges or medals oranything anymore.
I was losing that sense of it.
And I just absolutely lovedbeing a hundred percent in

(29:58):
service.
It was a very empowering innerstate of mine to be in.
I felt I had everything I neededand whatever I needed in my own
life came to me easily.
Like if I needed a place tostay, someone offered it to me.
It was like effortless.
I had this feelling thateverything was effortless, also
we were doing great work, fromraising all this money.
I went on to do five marathonsin total in my fifties, and

(30:21):
raised about$50,000.
And I've written a story of thisin the book.

Caroline (30:25):
But let's say in school and you had to do like
physical education, Did youenjoy that stuff when you were
little?

Ray (30:33):
Well, yeah, I think I did, but I'd forgotten about it.
I hadn't done that kind ofexercise in recent years, but I
must say I really loved thetraining and the discipline of
it, and I thought, I'm making aninvestment in my own health and
wellbeing for my future.
'Cause I was in my 50s then.
I'm 65 now, and I feel like thehealthiest I've ever felt in my
life, you know?
And so I feel very fortunatethat I kind of had the

(30:56):
opportunity to do this.

Caroline (30:59):
Imagine what your life would be like if your career
aligned with who you are, whatyou do best, and actually fueled
the life you want.
At Next Success, we support allages and stages through career
transitions from studentsexploring majors or careers to
job seekers actively searchingor re-imagining their next move

(31:21):
to professionals committed toself-awareness and leadership
growth.
Stay connected and explorewhat's possible at
nextsuccesscareers.com andfollow@nextsuccessmethod on
LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram,and Facebook.
You mentioned that people comeinto your life for a reason, a
season or a lifetime.

(31:42):
Tell a little bit more aboutthat.

Ray (31:44):
I think we all have questions about, if you meet
someone romantically, is thisthe right person?
When you work with people or doa project with some people and
you have to leave it, it feelsdifficult And I will say to
people who have challenges likethat, well, you don't know
whether or not you're meetingsomeone for a reason.
So for example, I met Matt for areason.

(32:07):
He was the person who gave methe idea that marathon running
could be a thing.
he then showed me how to learnand do it.
And then he was gone from mylife.
You know, so I met him for areason, a really good reason.
With Annie who I traveled with,it turned out to be nearly two
years.
I traveled with her and sharedthe life on the road with her.

(32:27):
She taught me a lot about how tobe an independent traveler, how
to cope with the psychologicalchallenges of being on your own
and things like that.
So I had a season with her.
It wasn't one thing, it was aseason of time, a year or two in
which I absorbed and took fromthat engagement with her, a lot
of learning and newunderstanding and new

(32:48):
perspectives.
And she became a bit of ateacher for me.
And then there are people youmeet who you know you're always
gonna know them.
You might not see them everyday, but, I've met guys in my
journey who I'm gonna be friendswith till I die.
And I just know that I will, andI'm always there for them.
And vice versa.
It's like you meet them, theconnection.
So special through shared valuesor shared vision of life.

(33:11):
Something just cements yourfriendship together.

Caroline (33:14):
Like the people in Australia, right?
Because you went there multipletimes and got to see their child
grow up.

Ray (33:21):
I've made friends everywhere, but probably about a
dozen or so of those people, I'mreally still in connection with
strongly.
One guy I met in Koh Tao in theearly years in Thailand, he now
runs my website for me.
You know, it's like 20 yearslater we're still talking every
day.

Caroline (33:37):
Now you talked about this calculation you had done
and this realization maybearound the time of your father
passing.
But tell us a little bit moreabout that calculation.
What was that?

Ray (33:48):
There's a lot of books written about this as well.
But when my dad died, he was 73and I thought, wow.
It just really made me, itstopped me in my tracks after we
had his funeral I just becamequite curious about how many
days he'd lived.
So I worked it out with acalculator, 27,300 days.
I thought, wow.
That's not very many days for awhole life, given that you're an

(34:11):
infant for some of them, and youare elderly for some.
You know I thought, what's theaverage number of days that a UK
man gets?
'cause the government and thepension companies, they track
that very closely.
So they know and it turned outthat it was 80, which is 29,200
days.
So, on the assumption that Iwould die on the average age,

(34:31):
which obviously I don't know howthat's gonna play out, but on
the assumption that I would dieon the average age, I worked
out, how many days have Ialready been alive, you know, as
in 45.
And I worked that out and I tooka couple of years off the end
for being in a nursing home orsomething, not being able to do
much.
And it turned out that I wasdoing these sums when we buried
my dad, that I had 12,500 daysof my life left.

(34:56):
No matter what I did with thattime, that's all there was.
You know?
So the idea then of using thetime to further my career or
doing more work or somethinglike that, it just came out of
the equation because I read thisbook by Bronnie Ware, you might
have heard of it.
It's called The Top Five Regretsof the Dying.

Caroline (35:13):
Yes.

Ray (35:14):
And she works in a hospice.
And so she only talks to peoplein the last days of their lives.
And she says, what do you mostregret about your life?
And she said, they all say thesame thing.
Every single one of them said,the number one regret was I
wished I'd lived my life true tomyself, and not the life that
others had expected of me.
And the number two regret, bythe way, was I wished I hadn't
worked so hard because a lot ofpeople die with money in the

(35:35):
bank they could never spend.
So, I took that on board and Ithought, here am I working out
what I should do with the restof my life?
And don't need to do any careerstuff.
I can do some, but I don't needto be obsessed with that.
Actually, I thought, what's mostfor me to experience before I
die and travel was something I'dnever done and things like that.

(35:57):
So I thought I just want tocontinue on this path for now
and see where it leads.
By the way, I've got, as wespeak today, I can I monitor
this?
I've got five and a halfthousand days left now.

Caroline (36:07):
But now I wonder, I was thinking about this.
So, if the data that went intothe calculation was the average
age of an average male in the UKand we know that there's so much
data that you've never doneanything average.

Ray (36:24):
I know.

Caroline (36:25):
You excel.
And if you're conditioned yourmind, and sometimes what gets
your attention is yourintention.
And if you're constantly tellingyourself you only have 5,500
days, I wonder if you wouldactually like, maybe that would
be it.
And then your body is gettingready.
But what if you told yourself anew thing?
What if that's a limitingbelief?
And you don't have to be thatlimit.

(36:46):
Have you considered?
Because what if you're wrong?
Okay, you have more time.
But have you consideredadjusting this framework to just
go ahead and Say you're aboveaverage, you're healthy, you've
run five marathons, you'vevisited 28 countries, you have
so many people that know andlove you.
What if you have 10,000?

(37:06):
15,000?
It's a lovely challenge.

Ray (37:08):
It's a lovely

Caroline (37:09):
I'm just curious, like why not?
Is there anything stopping you?
Because you've never let anyother limit or somebody else's
definition become yours.

Ray (37:20):
I don't see it quite as a limit.
I guess that's how it is for me.

Caroline (37:23):
Okay.

Ray (37:24):
Because I don't have any children of my own, I'm not
saying goodbye to anyone if Idepart, if you know what I mean.
Like I'm saying goodbye tofriends and such.
We've all got to go at somepoint.
So that's the way that works.
And I would consider if I madeit to 80, that would be a bloody
good life.
You know?
I would've had a good and fulllife.

(37:44):
But if I get another 10 years,I'll take them.
But I'm not attached orfrightened of that, you know,
I'm just at ease with whenever Ineed to leave.

Caroline (37:53):
Beautiful.
A beautiful distinction.
Yeah.
This non-attachment has beensomething you've really worked.

Ray (37:59):
I just want to be at peace with whatever happens, because
ultimately it's outside of mypower.
I'm not gonna decide when I'mleaving or not.
So, I mean I'm comfortable withhowever it plays out and if I
can stick around longer.
Yeah, great.
Brilliant.

Caroline (38:12):
And so what is your vision for your life now?
Like in your ideal situation,what do you want your life to
look like?

Ray (38:18):
When I ask people younger than me, they tend to answer
that question in terms of amilestone or an outcome as few
years down the road orsomething.
And that's probably one of thebiggest shifts for me is that I
don't talk in those, I don'thave a sort of end point, like
more my vision is how I want tolive each day, how I want to put
my head down on my pillow andfeel at the end of every day.

(38:42):
And as long as I'm living thatvision, which is have I been
kind, have I been compassionate?
Have I learned something?
Have I been open to learning?
Have I been curious instead ofjudgmental?
Am I trustworthy and honorable?
If I'm going to sleep everynight and I know that's how I've
lived that day.
I am living my vision fully, soit doesn't need to take me

(39:03):
anywhere.
I think I've got enough materialresources that I need for my
life.
I'm not hugely needing much.
But, I think I've got exactlywhat I need.
So I'm not worried about that.
And I've got no burning ambitionto be sort of massively famous
or sell a million books orsomething like this either,
although that would be nice.

Caroline (39:22):
But you might, and you might though.

Ray (39:25):
I'll tell you secretly that I would love to get my book made
into a Hollywood movie.
That would be great.

Caroline (39:30):
Oh yes.

Ray (39:32):
That would be super.
I would really like that.

Caroline (39:34):
That would be so good.
And it could even be like a twoor three movies in a series kind
of thing.
There's enough data in stuff inthere.
Oh wow.
That'd be cool.

Ray (39:43):
If you know about it, but there was a couple in England,
who had some difficult periodsin their life and they went on a
journey of healing and theywrote a book called The Salt
Path.
The book was extremely wellreceived.
It sold so many copies that afilm, someone bought the film
rights to it, and they made amajor film of it with Gillian
Anderson from the X-Filesplaying the woman who was in it.

Caroline (40:06):
Oh, wow.

Ray (40:07):
However, the sting in the tale is, turns out three or four
years later after the film'smade that they had lied about
their story and a lot of it'sfake and they weren't at all who
they said they were in the bookand there's a lot of corruption
and skullduggery behind it.
And so they're in a bigcontroversial legal fight.
Now that couple, I dunno thefacts, obviously.

Caroline (40:27):
Interesting.

Ray (40:28):
I'm not alleging anything here, but my story is literally,
if anyone's gotta read it, it'sliterally what actually really
happened.
And it is all true.
Every word of it, you know.
So that's why I think if it wasmade into a film, I'd be very
happy because it's a really is atrue story.

Caroline (40:44):
And who would you want to be playing you?
Which actor would you thinkwould be the best you?
I'm just saying.

Ray (40:50):
No idea.
I really don't have any idea.
I don't even know the names ofmost actors, but I don't really
mind.
Because I'd be obviously needingperhaps two people because I
started when I was 45 and I'mmuch older now so.

Caroline (41:02):
Right, right.

Ray (41:04):
I'm sure they'll find someone who'd be up for it.

Caroline (41:07):
Maybe it could be the businessman who never did any
acting before and all of asudden becomes this great
sensation that he becomesinspired to do his own thing.

Ray (41:15):
Brilliant.
I wouldn't care.
I wouldn't care, It would justbe such a lovely moment to be
experiencing as, as I was alive.
That would be brilliant.
I think my interest in that ismostly that I think.
What I've experienced is commenton so many people I meet.
Like it's this feeling that yourall this effort into your life.

(41:35):
So, to try and climb a ladder toget to the top of a wall, only
to find when you reach the topof whatever your wall was.
For some people it's to be aprofessional footballer or
something.
You see, it doesn't matter.
But once you get to the top ofthe wall on your ladder and you
suddenly go, oh my God, I thinkI put my ladder against the
wrong wall.
I'm here, but this isn't what Ireally wanted.

Caroline (41:57):
Yes.

Ray (41:57):
This isn't the feeling that I imagined when I set this
vision up.
And I think this is a reallycommon experience.
I speak to hundreds of people ayear who tell me this.
So I'm writing out there forthem.

Caroline (42:12):
I saw the same, people being outwardly successful and
inwardly unfulfilled.
And even myself, I had that sameexperience because I achieved as
a scientist and I commercializedproducts and I got awards and
then I achieved as a recruiterglobally for the chemical
industry.
And I got top performer awardsyear after year.

(42:34):
And yet.
I was feeling, is this it?
Is this really all there is?
And then my body started havingthese symptoms that I didn't
connect were because of this, Ihad high blood pressure and
class two obesity, threedifferent medicines, an
irregular heart rate, a cardiacablation, all these things.
I feel like God or universe isgonna give you messages and

(42:55):
you're gonna get little message,little message, little message.
And then you might get sat down.
And now nicely, I got sat downby my beautiful husband who
questioned what was I doing?
And he was saying he's concernedwe wouldn't have another
anniversary.
And so I took that and it becamemy fuel.
And so that's when I made mycompany Next Success.

(43:17):
So I'll help next chapterexplorers become authentic
success creators.
And authentic success is how youdefine it.
Not somebody else's ladder, notsomebody else's wall.
So ultimately, what do you wantyour life to look like?
And how can your career fuelthat life?
Because when you don't have thatsorted out, it's so easy to get

(43:39):
caught up in the career and in,this is what I need to do for
the promotion and this is what Ineed to do for the award or for
the raise.
And yet the people I saidmattered most got the worst of
me because I was yelling at mykids and yelling at my family
and so exhausted by the time Iwas with them.
I was there but not present.
And then I started to question,what am I doing?

(44:03):
And why does it matter if I helpall these other people with
their careers, and the peoplewho call me a beautiful name
like mom or wife, they'regetting the worst of me.
That's not right.

Ray (44:16):
I completely resonate with everything you're saying.
Yeah.
That was what, how I saw it.
But I was also just shockedwherever I went in the world,
whoever I met, and I started tohave conversations like this,
that people go, well, that's howit is for me.
I didn't realize so many peoplewere dissatisfied or unhappy in
their situations.
And so my mission in the worldhas become much more about being

(44:38):
a torch bearer for greater humanconsciousness than it's ever
been before, and trying to shinethe light of that torch onto
people's true path and saying,what is the path you want to
walk?
Because it's not about how muchmoney you make or, how famous
you are.
It's, for me, it's much moreabout what is it that puts you
in your element where your heartand soul are aligned, and what

(45:00):
is it that gives you joy to doeven because some people I know
get joy from making the tea.
They just love doing that.

Caroline (45:09):
Yes.
Yes.

Ray (45:10):
You can see it in their faces.
It's whatever brings joy.
And we need all of those things.
People want to be poets,musicians, artists, performers,
and you know, at school you'retold, oh, you better not do
that.
You better get yourself a realjob.

Caroline (45:24):
Do anything you want except art.
Accept music.
Yes.

Ray (45:28):
We need those people because those people are the
ones who inspire us to live ourlives properly.

Caroline (45:36):
So what advice do you give when you have somebody that
you meet and they are feelingthis tension?
What's your go-to?

Ray (45:45):
It mostly is to say, if you could just start from a total
clean sheet of paper, completelystart from zero, what would be
the picture of the life you wantto head towards?
What would it look like?
What would it feel like to be init?
What would you be doing?
What would that feel like?
What would be the nature ofthat?
And just have conversations evenif it feels like a complete wild

(46:05):
fantasy in the beginning, themore reality those conversations
put and shape around it.
I could say, you've talked thatthrough, I could say, what would
be one tiny little step fromwhere you are in the life you're
in right now that might take youa little bit closer to that?
And what would that involve?
You know, what would stop youfrom taking that step?

(46:27):
And then you just get them tostart.
Because I'd say to anyone who'sinterested in finding their own
entry path, it doesn't matterhow long it takes, as long as
you're moving towards thispicture.
If it takes 20 years, it's okay.
It means you're gonna be totallyfulfilled in 20 years.

Caroline (46:42):
Yeah, and you could change your mind.
That's the thing too.
And exploring an idea orstarting to articulate it a
little bit, doesn't mean youhave to do it.
I like your idea of what is onesmall step, and then what would
that look like and how couldthat be?
And really defining your moveswith your intention, not other
people's intention.

Ray (47:02):
I don't know if you ever used like a navigational tool as
you're sort of plottingcoordination where they
crossover.
Once you get your vision, thenyou can reflect on what are my
values, what's most important tome?
That I show up every dayembodying.
Like if I value community orteamwork, I don't wanna choose a
job as a data analyst where I'msitting crunching numbers on a
spreadsheet on my own.

(47:24):
I'm just not gonna feel greatabout that.
I need to be in a team activelyparticipating and engaging with
other people every day,otherwise I'm not alive.
Finding out more about one's ownvalues through deep reflection
and being guided helps, but youcan do it yourself.
So vision, values, beliefs likeyou were saying, you know, what
are the beliefs I hold thatreally empower me?

(47:45):
'Cause a lot of people don'trealize it, but they've got
quite a few beliefs they gotfrom their family that are
really empowering.
Like the idea that beinggenerous is a really useful
belief.
There's a lot of generous peopleand it is a very empowering
thing.
The opposite is having thelimiting belief, which is, I'm
not good enough.
I'm not clever enough, I'm notready enough.
I'm not old enough.
I'm not something enough.

(48:07):
This is a Brene Brown's donesome brilliant work around that.
You know, she's a cheerleaderfor that work.
And, that is to be explored andexamined because if you can set
aside even one or two of those,you're gonna move towards your
picture much more quickly, Ithink.

Caroline (48:22):
Now, you mentioned a lot of books in your book.
Did you read those books alongyour journey, or did you read
those books while writing yourbooks?

Ray (48:31):
It's a mixture of some of books I referred to, like the
book on transitions I'd readyears before, but I thought it
was relevant to quote it.
But the books on minimalism Iread while I was writing.
Some of the other quotes, likethe Top Five Regrets I read that
as my life was falling apartbecause I was desperately trying
to find some hope in a very darkperiod.

(48:51):
And that's what inspired me toread that book.
But I mean, I read a lot all thetime.
I'm constantly reading as acoach, we do.

Caroline (48:58):
Absolutely.
But when you were traveling, didbooks go in your backpack or you
found local libraries or just.

Ray (49:05):
I carried one or two at a time.

Caroline (49:07):
PDFs and stuff?

Ray (49:08):
Real books at a time then swapped them with other people.
But eventually I got a kindle.
I've got is the first edition,but original one from 2006.
So my kindle's now 20 years oldnearly.

Caroline (49:21):
Still going.
You didn't drop it of all thoseplaces.

Ray (49:25):
Same one.

Caroline (49:25):
Wow.
All those public transportationand it still survived.

Ray (49:29):
So, I enjoyed reading the most were always from the
spiritual teachers.
Like Thich Nhat Hanh, the ZenMonk.
Osho I read a lot of his books.
The Dalai Lama, these books werethe ones that really fed me the
most I would think.

Caroline (49:44):
You had put some guiding principles in your book.
Have those changed or evolvedover time for you?

Ray (49:50):
I realized in the first few months how psychologically
fragile I was because I wasanxious and worried and scared
all the time and a lot of noise.
And so I thought I'll do thisfor past retreat.
Then that inspired me to come upwith 10 guiding principles that
I wrote for myself, myinstructions to myself to keep
myself psychologically safe.

(50:11):
And so there was, the principleis about non-attachment.
One was about self-acceptance,loving myself more.
'Cause I was, I'm often verycritical towards myself.
One was about frugality andmodesty.
One was about contribution.
There are 10 in total and so Ithought I share those in the
book in case people arewondering what a set of guiding

(50:32):
principles might look like.
I use mine as an example, not tosay these are the ones you
should have, but these are theones I came up with for me.
I explained to people how I gotthere so that they can do it for
themselves.
And then my editors said to mewhen I finished the book and
wrote this, had the story fallcompletely finished.
Can you write the final chapterof the book to say what, what

(50:53):
you, what was the wisdom thatyou gained from the entire 14
year period?
And that's when I came up withthe six Rules for Happiness in
Life, which formed the last partof the book because it was
obvious to me that I had learnedsomething seriously substantial
that was transferrable toeverybody.
And I thought, I better writedown what that is.
And so I, I've distilled theknowledge into six for

(51:17):
happiness.
And most people, I think wouldrelate to those.

Caroline (51:22):
So how do you stay happy now?
Are you following thoseprinciples because any interview
I have seen that you did youjust have this beautiful smile.
Just this joy and beauty.
It just like exudes from you.
But like how do you keep that?

Ray (51:38):
Well, I do my best.
I wanna be honest with anyonethat's listening or watching
this, not every day I'm like inthis version of me.
Even today I had one or tworeally half administrative calls
with a company that deals withtaxation and stuff like this.
I get so wound up in thoseconversations, I lose any sort
of sense of kindness orcompassion become sort of grumpy

(51:59):
and irritable very quickly.
Like everyone, I kind of go inand out of different mental
states, but what I try and do,because I work in this field of
trying to guide others, I tryand use my own life as a
learning post and try and seewhen I go into negative
territory, let's say, what can Ilearn from that's gonna help me
teach it better?

(52:19):
You're not your thoughts, youare the observer of your
thoughts.
And my third rule of happinesssafter six is become your own
observer.
Because if you can go about yourdaily life and be in these
events from the observer place,rather than you being the victim
in the story.
Then you can be quite detachedfrom what's happening and you

(52:41):
can learn something from it,which you can teach others.
When I'm in these crappymoments, and I've had a few this
week, I think, oh, that's good.
I've, that's a good story.
I can tell other people thatwill help me teach that.
So it's actually quite excitingin a way.

Caroline (52:56):
Yeah, happening for you.
Happening for you.

Ray (53:00):
Even the worst moments become the teachable moments.

Caroline (53:03):
Do you still do meditation?

Ray (53:05):
I do, yeah.
That's essential.
I think said the first rule forhappiness, build a strong core
foundation of self-awareness.
My message to the world isunless you are prepared to
commit yourself to constantreflection and quiet time and
stillness and self-awareness,you haven't got a chance of
living a good life, from pillaryou are gonna be pulled to post

(53:27):
because the world's getting moreconfusing, more toxic, and more
and dangerous all the time.
So be finding a way back to yourpeaceful center on demand
whenever you need it.

Caroline (53:40):
You also wrote something that you said, it's
not the acquiring of informationthat transforms one's life,
applying it every day andunderstanding good practice is
quite different from practicingwhat we understand.
Tell us more about that.

Ray (53:54):
Well, I learned that from Thich Nhat hanh.
He was a zen buddhist monk whohas a massive community that he
left behind when he died.
And, his teaching was, mediationisn't about sitting on a cushion
with your eyes closed and yourlegs crossed.
He said, about how you show upin difficult conversations and
the way in which you bring yourmindful energy to speak with

(54:17):
loving kindness to anotherperson who's really cheesed you
off.
That's when it counts.
It's in, it is in those momentswhen you need the mindful
energy.
So you can be compassionate andbe kind in how you bring
yourself to it.
The sitting on the cushion, hedescribed it as, you've got
these meditative practices whichkind of like it was a mobile
phone we were talking about,that's the equivalent of

(54:40):
plugging the phone into theelectricity so you can charge
the battery.

Caroline (54:43):
Yeah.

Ray (54:44):
So you're not doing anything you're sitting to
charge your mind from thisbattery.
And then later someone's gonnaturn one of your apps on and try
and use it to do something.
And that's when you need themindful energy to be dispensed.

Caroline (54:58):
Yes.

Ray (54:59):
You've got the charging and you got the apps.
Well, the applied energy then isthe critical thing.
How you use that energy todiffuse difficult and angry and
irritable conversations, yeah.

Caroline (55:13):
Now I'm curious since the book left off to now, what
happened to the Love story?

Ray (55:20):
The one I finished the book was with someone I met, I moved
from Thailand to Poland in theend for a love story.

Caroline (55:29):
Yeah.
But now you're back in Londonarea.

Ray (55:34):
Two years ago I met the love of my life.
My life partner.

Caroline (55:38):
Yeah, you'd been looking and you kind of defined.
Now how well does your partnermatch your rough sketch of ideas
that you mapped out at one time.

Ray (55:49):
So I am in a very happy and beautiful relationship with, and
funny enough, her name'sCarolyn.
It actually is true.

Caroline (55:58):
Great name, but does she spell it LYN or LINE.

Ray (56:01):
She does, she does, that's why I asked you'cause she spells
it diffferently.
But I'm very, very happy aboutthat.
Yeah.

Caroline (56:07):
Oh, that's great.
I'm glad it worked because it'slike, you wanna be like, and now
what happened?
And now what happened?
You became such a great writer,even with your blog and things,
and just, I was chuckling at thecreativity that you had said.
And I do wonder if back in thosetimes, I would just randomly be
searches.
I think I did read maybe acouple of entries that you had

(56:28):
put on your blog at the time.
But, when you wrote your book,did you go back to your blog to
help fill it all in or how'dthat work?

Ray (56:36):
I did because I was writing about a 14 year period

Caroline (56:39):
Yeah.

Ray (56:41):
And you know, unless you got like a super computer
memory, I couldn't remember, didI go there first?
And how long did I spend there?
My blog gave me a kind of achronological reference of where
I had been and how long, andsome of the key things that I'd
forgotten about in the grandscheme of things.
But I wasn't really writingabout those things so much as

(57:01):
just to pinpoint when theyhappened.
Because I didn't wanna tell thestory out of time and missed
something out or put somethingin later when it happened
earlier or something like thisso I was just wanted to be
factually correct.
Yeah.

Caroline (57:16):
How about of all the places you've visited, if you
could only go back to one.
What would you choose?

Ray (57:27):
I went back this winter, just gone Christmas last year.
I did go back, I went back toChiang Mai.

Caroline (57:33):
Oh yeah.
I've heard some other peopletalk about that too.
I feel like maybe I need to gothere sometime.

Ray (57:38):
Oh it's a amazing place I hadn't been there for seven
years and I really wanted to goback and I wanted to take
Carolyn there to see the life Ihad there.
And I managed to stay again withthe same Thai family that I
lived with when I was there.

Caroline (57:52):
Wow.

Ray (57:53):
So I had 10 weeks in Asia over the winter, and a lot of it
in Chiang Mai, we did do someother traveling as well, but we
were mainly based there and itwas just absolutely gorgeous.
Absolutely gorgeous.
So I would probably go backthere.

Caroline (58:05):
Did you bring suitcases and how much did they
weigh?

Ray (58:09):
It took one bag.
You're allowed one piece ofluggage.

Caroline (58:12):
You still did it.

Ray (58:13):
But still under 20 kilos.
I can go for 10 weeks somewhereand not really take much more
than a napsack now.

Caroline (58:20):
Wow.

Ray (58:21):
I know that I don't need really that much.

Caroline (58:24):
That's amazing.
What's next for you?

Ray (58:28):
What's next is life.
It's always unfolding.
I'm working on an idea for asecond book perhaps that's
something I'm exploring.
i'm doing lots of leadershipcoaching in the UK for people in
the business world.
And that's occupying quite a bitof my time quite happily.
And I love that work.
I'm now part of a family,'causeCarolyn's got children and

(58:48):
grandchildren and I'm enjoying alife never had before.
Being a member of a big familyand looking after the grandkids.
I've never had this.

Caroline (58:56):
That's nice.

Ray (58:58):
Next couple of years with me if it was just filled with
that, I'd be totally thrilled.
But I just turned 65 as well.
I'm reaching a point where I'mrealizing I'm not gonna work at
the same frenetic pace I usedto.

Caroline (59:10):
Good.
Yes.

Ray (59:12):
Yeah.
But I just wanna be here forthose people that really need
support from someone like me whocan help them on their own path.

Caroline (59:21):
Where can people find you if they wanna go find the
book or learn more about you?
How can they find it?

Ray (59:28):
I created a website called LifeWithoutATie.com And that was
mainly because when a lot ofpeople started reading the book,
they were all contact me saying,have you got any pictures of any
of these places and events?
And I said, well, I couldn'thave put photos in the book.
It's a paperback.

Caroline (59:43):
Yeah.

Ray (59:44):
But what we'll do is we'll put all the photos up on the
website so you can see them sothat if you go to
LifeWithoutATie.com, you'll seeloads and loads of pictures from
the 14 year journey in differentparts of it.
And there you can, it's gotlinks to Amazon and different
places and I people, if theywant signed copies, you can get
those from me.
I'm in LinkedIn is where mostpeople find me in the business

(01:00:05):
world on LinkedIn.

Caroline (01:00:06):
Awesome.
I loved the book, so now it'sgonna be this interesting
experience of, is the picturethat I put in my head, how does
it align with the real picturesof some of these places?
Right.
But you did a nice job.
I'll be like, oh, this was likeJurassic Park, or this was like,
I'm like, oh, oh, okay, cool.

Ray (01:00:24):
Yeah, certainly the picture on the front cover is actually
really me going to Everest basecamp.
That's a picture of me that wastaken on the way.
It was taken in 2010.

Caroline (01:00:35):
Oh, awesome.
So I'm big on authentic success.
We've touched a lot about thisin our conversation, but for
you, how do you define authenticsuccess?

Ray (01:00:47):
The degree to which I can choose what I do with my time
and have discernment over that,and the degree to which I feel I
finish each day knowing thatI've lived in alignment with my
values, vision, purpose, andwhat I truly believe about the

(01:01:07):
life I want.
And if I'm just ticking thoseboxes daily, I feel the most
successful person alive.

Caroline (01:01:14):
Ray, thank you so much for sharing just a tiny glimpse
into your story.
Throughout our time here, Ihighly encourage everyone to go
read Life Without a Tie.
It is such a beautiful book,such wonderful example of
someone who's pivoted and lovedit.

Ray (01:01:35):
Thank you very much.

Tara (01:01:36):
Thanks for listening to Your Next Success with Dr.
Caroline Sangal.
Remember, authentic success isyours to define and includes
aligning your career to supportthe life you want.