March 31, 2025 • 37 mins
Branda Villacob from The Relevant Collective is sharing her win-win teacher business story today. She reminds us that no one is going to come and save us and it is up to us to design the day, week, and life that we dream of. I know you'll enjoy hearing her tips about time tracking and capacity in this guest conversation.
Connect with today's guest:
https://www.therelevantcollective.com/
https://www.instagram.com/therelevantcollective/
Branda is the email copywriter, launch strategist, and chocoholic behind The Relevant Collective. She writes strategic copy for former-teachers-turned-business-owners who channel their skills from the classroom into thriving service and product-based businesses. She's all about turning your pie-in-the-sky goals into reality.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Janice Cook (00:00):
Joining us today for a guest conversation is
Branda. Branda is the emailcopywriter, launch strategist,
and chocoholic behind TheRelevant Collective. She writes
strategic copy for formerteachers turned business owners
who channel their skills fromthe classroom into thriving
service and product basedbusinesses. She's all about
(00:21):
turning your pie in the skygoals into reality. In today's
Coffee Chat, we talk about thedanger of saying yes to
everything, how we sometimesbring the same work habits from
our first career into oursecond, and how that's both a
pro and a con. We'll talk abouthow no one's coming to save us,
(00:42):
and we have to build our ownpath to the dream day of what we
want our life to look like. Ihope you enjoy this chat with
Branda as much as I did, andhead into the show notes to
connect with her. I'll leave allof the links down below.
You're listening to Your Win-WinTeacher Business, a podcast for
(01:04):
teacher authors who want to makea big impact in the world for
teachers and students and havefun doing it. I'm your host,
Janice Cook, here with a peptalk to start your week off
strong. Some seasons of runninga business feel hard and sticky,
but it shouldn't feel like thatall the time. Let's make your
business a win-win together.
(01:25):
Hi, Branda, thanks for beinghere today.
Branda (01:27):
Hi. Thanks so much for having me.
Janice Cook (01:30):
I am so excited to talk business today. I would
love to hear why you startedyour business way back in the
day.
Branda (01:38):
I would love to say that I had this, like, really amazing
origin story, of, like, I justknew I was destined to be a
copywriter, but that's reallynot how it happened. I think,
like a lot of us inentrepreneurship, I kind of just
like, fell into it. I had beenteaching for five years, and my
fourth year teaching was reallybrutal. I really did not want to
(01:59):
go into a fifth year, but it waskind of one of those, like, I
need to make money, so I have todo another year type things,
Janice Cook (02:06):
adulting,
Branda (02:07):
yes. So I went into my fifth year and I knew I wanted
to leave. So I had been applyingto jobs when I knew I wanted to
leave my fourth year, and I justwasn't really successful, like
finding a job outside ofteaching. So I was like, Well, I
am going to just make my own waythen. And I kind of, I'd already
been doing some business thingsalready, like I had been selling
(02:30):
on TPT, so I was already kind oflike in the TPT world. And I was
thinking, like, What do I likedoing out of this, you know? And
it really was the writing sideof things. Like, I loved writing
emails. I loved writing blogs.
So I kind of just like, youknow, what did they say? Like, a
shoot, my shot kind of thing,you know, I threw it out there
in one of the TPT groups, and Iwas like, Hey, if you want
someone to write your blogs foryou, I'll do it. And it just
(02:50):
kind of took off from there. Andby the end of that school year,
I had saved up enough that I waslike, All right, I'm gonna,
like, dive in and and go for it.
So that's kind of like the veryunromantic version. I mean, I
guess the romantic version is,like, I always did love writing
when I was a kid. I, like, usedto write stories and I wanted to
(03:14):
be an author. So it was kind oflike a combination of things I
already enjoyed doing and alsogetting out of a bad situation.
Janice Cook (03:23):
Yeah! Remind me what you taught.
Branda (03:25):
I taught English.
Janice Cook (03:26):
Yeah, no, I just didn't want to guess I thought
you were an ELA teacher. Yeah,and it's so interesting. I think
the jobs that a lot of us donow, they just like, weren't on
the menu on Career Day back inthe day. Yeah, like you knew you
liked writing, so you became anELA teacher. Your guidance
counselor probably didn't tellyou, you could also write blogs
like you could be a ghostwriter, or you could be a
(03:47):
copywriter. My guidancecounselor didn't know about
copywriters.
Branda (03:50):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (03:51):
I feel like that just wasn't on their radar, and
that's not their fault. So Ithink that always makes me feel
better when we don't take ourlinear path through career land,
it's like, well, wait a minute.
I didn't know this was anoption. I changed my mind. Like
the menu changed, I want to spinthe big wheel again, but I love
that you brought it back tolike, how do I enjoy spending my
day? And I think we need do.
(04:13):
Need to hear the success storiesof forging your own path,
because no one's going to stopby and save us. If you're not
happy with the way things are,like, you gotta go make a plan
and dig yourself out.
Branda (04:25):
Exactly. I totally agree. And I'm like, very happy
that I did, but I think I've hadlike, moments in the beginning,
I definitely wasn't one of thosepeople who, like, it was hard
for me to leave teachingmentally, I was ready to go by
the end. But I think sometimes Ifelt like, did I waste this
career? Like, right? Like, Ijust went about a degree for
(04:46):
this. But then I really think ofit as like, that was just the
opportunity that life gave me.
Like, if I hadn't been teaching,then I would have never started
a TPT business, I would havenever met the people that I did,
and I would never have thisbusiness that I do now.
Janice Cook (04:59):
And I feel like you have such a strong understanding
of the people who read yourwords, the people who read the
blog post, the people who readthe emails, and such an intimate
understanding of the problemsthey are set out to trying to
solve. So I don't think my timein the classroom was a waste,
personally. The college degreestings, right? Mine's paid off,
yeah, like, whatever water underthe bridge. And I think what
(05:22):
stings for me about it is thesecond career is equally as
profitable, but with no degree.
So you're like,
Branda (05:30):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (05:30):
Interesting. There were jobs out there that could
have been a little faster, andwe didn't know it's okay,
Branda (05:37):
yeah, for sure.
Janice Cook (05:39):
So you needed out of the classroom, been there,
and you were like, We're gonnamake this happen. I probably
stayed two years longer than Ishould have, so I actually
really admire how quickly youpulled your plan to get there
and got out.
Branda (05:53):
Yeah, I think I was really fortunate in that way. I
don't think that that was like aquick start that most people
had, but I think again, becauseI'd already been kind of in that
space. A lot of the people thatI worked with in the very
beginning were people I'd met,like networking and Facebook
groups and stuff like that forseveral years prior. So it was
like a easier community to pullfrom because, like, we already
(06:14):
had that established trustfactor and all of those things.
Like, we'd been chatting forseveral years before. I was
like, Hey, you want to hire mefor this. So I think it was just
an easier sell.
Janice Cook (06:25):
No, absolutely you had a network, no doubt. So you
wanted to spend your daywriting. You wanted to get out
of the classroom. You did it.
Win-win. Has it always been awin win, or have there been any
moments that are a littlechallenging and sticky?
Branda (06:40):
Oh definitely not always a win. I mean, there have been
so many moments I really - thisyear, to me especially, has been
the year of really figuring out- you don't get to step into
your business and like you stepoutside of yourself, right? All
(07:00):
the things that you strugglewith in your own life are going
to be the same thing. So youalso struggle with in your
business. So if maybe you're notgreat at budgeting or finances,
you'll probably bring that withyou. If you're not good at
saying no, you'll bring thatwith you.
Janice Cook (07:13):
Oh, my goodness, isn't that the truth?
Branda (07:16):
So I really, I was in a mastermind last year, and that
kind of started that, like,brainstorming process for me, of
like, why does this feel sohard? Why am I really struggling
to, like, get my time managementin place? I feel like I'm
working 24/7 - like I quit ateaching job because I didn't
want to feel like this. I didn'twant to feel anxious all the
(07:37):
time. I didn't want to feel likeI couldn't step away from my
work, and now I'm doing theexact same thing times 10. Like,
it's not the same stress asbeing in the classroom, but
like, it's just another kind ofstress that I just, like,
welcomed into my life. And isthis what I wanted? Like, I
didn't become a business ownerto stress myself out. I wanted
more freedom.
Janice Cook (07:57):
How did we get here? Because brick by brick,
you built a new path, and thenyou're like, Oh no, we're right
back where we started.
Branda (08:05):
Yeah, it's like, I did that. I did that to me. I don't
have a boss who, like, assignedthis work to me, right? None of
my clients, like forced me tointo signing a contract with
them.
Janice Cook (08:15):
I'm my own toxic boss. Oh no. Definitely been
there. Was it like the hours,like all the unpaid time you
were putting in as a teacher,and now your hours were
terrible?
Branda (08:27):
I think a lot of it was also fear, like, there's a lot
of anxiety in business, right?
Because you're like, Okay, well,I'm responsible for all my
money, so that means I better bemaking all the money, because I
have bills to pay and I can'tnot. So I would just like, say
yes to everything. Even if I'mlooking at my calendar and I'm
like, there is no freaking way,like, I literally cannot fit
something in. I'd be like,"Sure, great." because I'm
(08:49):
thinking, like, well, what if Ineed that money, right? Like,
what if I get to a point, whatif three months from now,
everything stops? I'm gonna wishI had taken that project. Yeah,
and so I was doing a lot ofthings out of fear, but then I
would be so overworked. I'mworking until like 10pm at
night. I'm exhausted, I'mcranky. I'm working on the
weekends when I really don'twant to be so I'm irritable, you
know? And it's like I had tocome to this realization of,
(09:13):
like, am I also putting in,like, my best work? Because now
I'm, like, irritable, and I'mwriting this, like, just trying
to get through it as quickly aspossible. And I don't ever want
to feel like I'm doing work thatisn't my best work, like that's
not a good feeling to be sittingthere going, was this my best
you know.
Janice Cook (09:32):
And freelancer life is really tricky like that,
because you never want to notdeliver on a promised deadline.
But I also don't want myselfinside someone's business if I'm
not in a good head space.
Branda (09:42):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (09:43):
I honor your business too much to go near it
right now. So I'm going tochoose of like, the two crummy
scenarios on this menu, and I'mgoing to deliver one day late,
but it's not going to beterrible.
Branda (09:53):
Yeah.
Janice Cook (09:54):
And you have to trust that that's going to be
okay. But in those moments youdo it, you are driving the bus
out of fear no doubt, becauseyou don't know. Like, if I say
"not right now", will they waituntil I have an actual opening?
If I say no, will something elsecome up?
Branda (10:12):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (10:13):
you don't know
Branda (10:14):
exactly,
Janice Cook (10:15):
But there is a point where you realize, like, I
literally can't do anythingelse, and you are forced to take
that choice and flex thatmuscle. So how did you like pull
things back into focus andfigure out what your capacity
was, where you were happy, youcould do high quality work and
you could afford to pay thebills?
Branda (10:35):
Yeah, I think it was a combination of a lot of things.
I think one of the big ones forme is, and a lot of this is
working with other people. Iwon't, like, pretend like I came
up with all these genius ideason my own. A lot of it was
working with coaches and findingpeople who were, like, really
good at what I wanted them tocoach me on. Like, not just
finding, like, some generalbusiness manager, but someone
who's like, I help you with thisthing.
Janice Cook (10:56):
I help anxious, overloaded former teachers,
right? They have to say all theright words.
Branda (11:01):
Yes. So I worked with various from people. One of them
was really good at the capacity,like I was, I went to her and I
was like, I would like to makemore money. And she's looking at
my calendar and going, well,there's no way you can make more
money because you have no moretime, right? So she's like,
well, let's figure out thecapacity problem. And she helped
me create a kind of system formapping out how many projects I
(11:24):
can take. I've used this for thepast year plus now, and that's
made a huge difference, becausenow I sure I could overbook
myself, but it's very clear whenI look at my calendar and I have
no white space, literally,there's not a single white box
open. I'm like, Oh, I don't havetime to do that,
Janice Cook (11:39):
And knowing is half the battle, right? Yes, like
I've said to my friends, I'mplus one on client capacity.
Just knowing that is a world ofdifference in how you sit down
at the office on Monday morning,knowing that, like, if your
capacity was four, you havefive, if your capacity was 10,
you have 11, yeah, knowing thatyou've intentionally overbooked
(12:02):
a smidge,
Branda (12:03):
Yes,
Janice Cook (12:03):
puts you in a much different mindset than when,
like, you don't even know whatyour capacity is, and you're
just living with, like, yourfingers crossed.
Branda (12:10):
Yeah, you're definitely right about that. It, I think.
And maybe that was one of thebiggest problems I had the first
year in business, I wouldalways, like, under estimate how
long something would take me. Sothen I was like, Oh, I could get
that done in a day, and it wouldreally take like, two days, and
then everything gets pushedright. And now here I am, 10pm
Friday night, trying to bust outthis project, because I've
(12:32):
promised someone I'm going toturn it in, right? But just like
you said earlier, it was alsolike, I am someone who has a
hard time. I don't want todisappoint anyone. That's just a
personal thing about me thatI've brought into my business.
Janice Cook (12:44):
And that's a good quality and a service provider,
Branda (12:46):
I was gonna say, in some ways that's that's a good thing,
because I always want to do mybest. In some ways that's bad,
because I've had moments whereI'm like, I should tell someone,
hey, I gonna need one extra day.
And in the beginning of mybusiness, that was not easy for
me. Now I book all of myprojects with extra days built
in. So I will tell a client likewe've worked together, and I
might tell you, hey, Janice, I'mgoing to deliver your project on
(13:08):
the 10th. I know I'm not goingto be writing it anywhere near
the 10th, but I've told you thatdate because that gives me extra
time if I get sick, if anelection happens and implodes my
world, if anything else in theworld goes awry, I have extra
time. And I sure I could stillreach out to you if like, really
things go wrong, but that rarelyhappens nowadays that I even
(13:30):
have to do that because I know Ihave that extra time built in.
Janice Cook (13:34):
And it's always good to over deliver so if you
leave yourself space there, I'llalways take your fabulous work
early. And I think it's alsoimportant, all the people that
we work with need to hear thisreminder. You can't schedule
creativity. You can't say thatat 9am on Tuesday, the words are
going to be a flowing andthey're going to be magical.
That's just not how creativityworks. So it happens with
(13:56):
teachers pay teachers sellers,who are like, I am going to make
a product on Wednesday. Myentire calendar is clear, and it
will begin and end on Wednesday.
Yeah, right, that's not how yourbest products were ever born.
There's rabbit holes, and youhave to open another tab and
sketch another idea and A / B,look at two choices, and I don't
want to rush that magic. That'show we get to something really
(14:18):
good at the end. So it does takesome serious relationship
building. A lot of times thatemail that you're changing a
deadline sounds like I reallylike where this project is
headed. I need to follow it tothe finish line. That means it's
going to be one day late.
Branda (14:34):
Yeah
Janice Cook (14:35):
It's going to be late, but it's going to be worth
it. I refuse to rush throughthings and have them be poor
quality. And I suspect you'rethe same way.
Branda (14:43):
100%. I don't like that feeling at all. You know, again,
especially when I know someonehas trusted me with their
business, I'm like, not onlyfinancially, but like, you've
literally put your business inmy hands to deliver the best I
want to do the best,
Janice Cook (14:57):
Right.
Branda (14:57):
So having that built in time has helped. And like you
said, with creativity, that'salso something, and this is
something a service provider ora digital seller could do is
like, I have purposeful days andevery week now I only work on
client work four days out of theweek. One of those days is for
me. So could be the same withsomeone who does courses or, you
know, sells digital productsonline, where you're only doing
(15:19):
maybe three or four days ofcreation of something. That's a
lot. It is a lot of like, mentalenergy that goes into creating
something, to writing forsomeone, to writing for
yourself. I need a day where Ican just, like, knock the things
off my to do list, and also itgives me, like, something to
look forward to. I'm like, Okay,one more day. It's like, get
through things right? And then Ihave a day where I can, like,
(15:40):
still work, but it's morerelaxed.
Janice Cook (15:42):
I need variety for my brain. So, like, there has to
be some flow during the week. Itcan't be the same types of tasks
every day. What about yourcreative brain? Does it like
come to life in the evening, oris it sharp first thing in the
morning?
Branda (15:56):
Definetly morning. I get my best work done in the
mornings. The afternoons arelittle, little on the sketchy
side.
Janice Cook (16:03):
So there's so many times that you're like, maybe
I'll just do this task afterdinner. No, I won't. It won't be
good. And it's every time I dothat to myself and I sit down,
I'm like, this is not - the goodwork is not about to come
flowing out of this situation.
Branda (16:17):
Yeah? Oh, 100% agree.
I'm definitely most creative inthe morning.
Janice Cook (16:21):
Yeah, I'm a fresh cup of coffee kind of girl,
Branda (16:23):
yeah.
Janice Cook (16:24):
And so you learn those things by putting yourself
in boxes that you don't fit in,right? We try to do work at
night, and we say, okay, neveragain. You try to work for five
days, and you're like, Oh,that's not it either. You try to
take x clients, you realizethat's one too many, and then
you put the white space back inand so the journey is one that
we celebrate all of these thingsthat we know about ourselves
(16:45):
really well. We learned reallyhard lessons along the way.
Branda (16:49):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (16:50):
but if it gets you to a place where you're clear on
your capacity, oh my goodness,that's amazing. Yeah, one thing
he said that really caught myeye was a phrase called emails
are going unread. Can you sharea little bit more about that
feeling?
Branda (17:05):
There were a lot of moments in my business where
emails were going unread becauseit's too much like I'm I'm
absolutely overwhelmed, right?
And the things are stacking upin your inbox, and it is chaotic
and stressful, and you're hopingthat one moment you're going to
find to actually sit down andsift through it all. But I think
also, like nowadays, it's alittle more intentional too, at
times, like emails going unread,like sometimes, that is my
(17:28):
boundary of being able to say,All right, it's 4pm I'm logging
off. I'm going to my workout andI'll take care of it in the
morning. Or if I'm getting anemail at 3pm and it's not super
urgent, you know, I can handlethat tomorrow. I've set those
expectations that I don't emailback right away and I can get
back to them in the morning.
Janice Cook (17:50):
I'm not an EMT. No.
Babies aren't gonna die.
Branda (17:54):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (17:54):
This is okay. This can wait till tomorrow. And it's
such a muscle you have toexercise at the beginning of
your business. You're like, Ihave to hop on this juicy lead
immediately,
Branda (18:05):
yeah.
Janice Cook (18:05):
Or they're probably going to change their mind and
I'm never going to get work everagain, right?
Branda (18:09):
Yeah.
Janice Cook (18:10):
And then you're like, No, wait a second, I could
probably respond in 24 hours,and it'd be okay. And then 24
hours turns into one businessday, and every once in a while
you hear on a podcast fromsomeone who can go 2 business
days. I'm not there yet. I haveheard that some people can go,
like, 24 to 48 hours, or one totwo business days. And I'm like,
(18:33):
Oh, 2 business days. But I don'tknow. You just have to try it,
because there are some dayswhere you feel your human
limits, and more emails havecome in than you can get back to
in one day.
Branda (18:47):
Yeah, 100%. It's one of those things that when you are,
you know, especially if you're aservice provider. But even
outside of that space, I thinksometimes, yeah, we think people
also expect us to respond withina couple hours, and maybe they
do, but if you do wait abusiness day, or do wait two
business days, and that's like ared flag for someone and like,
(19:08):
oh, well, I couldn't, I couldn'twork with you, or I could never
buy from this company again. Andthat also says something about
that person. Obviously they're abad person, but like, okay, then
our expectations aren't aligned,and then we probably aren't a
good fit, because even with myclients, who are obviously the
priority in my business, I'm notresponding to their emails,
typically, unless I just happento have my email inbox open and
(19:30):
sitting down to answer stuff I'mnot normally answering in an
hour or two, right? 100% it'snormally going to take me a bit
to get to things, because mostof the stuff, it's not urgent,
right? It's stuff that it canwait until I'm done with
whatever I need to get throughtoday. So, and I think, you
know, for me again, after thatkind of first year, so in
business, setting thoseboundaries was kind of hard,
(19:51):
because there were a lot ofpeople I had been working with
for a while, and I do think it'sharder. It's like teaching,
right? It's harder when, like,you have. And the lenient
teacher who's like, chill,relax, and all of a sudden
you're like, actually, I'm goingto be requiring this from you,
like, you're going to get thekids who push back because
they're like, well, that's notwhat you've expected so far.
Janice Cook (20:12):
That's not the lifestyle we were living. Wait a
second,
Branda (20:14):
it was really chill, you know. And I did have, you know,
a few clients who I kind of putsome boundaries in place with
them, and it wasn't receivedsuper well, and that's okay. I
hadn't set those expectationsbefore we started working
together, so it's like, okay,and this is where our time will
now end, because now we're notaligned anymore.
Janice Cook (20:33):
It's not a win-win.
Yeah!
Branda (20:35):
That's okay, but there will be other people who are
aligned with me. But yeah,again, I think it's that fear.
We don't put the boundariesbecause we fear, well, if I
don't answer in an hour, well,if I just don't do what they
said they want me to do, arethey going to walk away? Does
that mean I'm not going to meetthe goals that I have for
myself?
Janice Cook (20:51):
Right? And I know it takes some time to build that
trust, and you have to earn thattrust, but the clients that I've
been with a long time know that,like, if it's not their day on
my schedule, I can't open up atab for their business. But when
I do open that tab, theyappreciate getting my undivided
attention on their day, becausethey know I'm going to be there
(21:13):
to unpack their deepest, darkestquestions and secrets, and we're
going to fully solve theproblem. And I just know that I
can't do my best work if I'manswering questions really
quickly. If I could table thisfor one more day, I could give
you a really meaty, juicy, muchmore high quality answer. And so
yeah, when you attract win-winpeople and you find the right
(21:35):
team members and the rightclients, then that feels good
for both parties. They're like,when you get around to it, I
would love to chat about X, andyou're like, Yes, I also would
love to talk about that, but,like, in a big, expansive amount
of time not running out thedoor.
Branda (21:52):
Yes, exactly. I think that's again, we're like,
putting those boundaries in inplace, or even just expectations
in place. Like, when I sit downwith a discovery call and
everything, like, I say, like,this is my style, and it's
because it gives people a chanceto say that works for me, or
that does it. Because we're allgoing to have different things
that we want from the peoplethat we work with and the people
in our lives. And I, I don'tfind that offensive at all.
(22:14):
There are people that I'm like,Oh, that's not my style, right?
That's not the person I wouldwork with. And then I'm going to
find people who are who may be alittle more laid back, or
whatever I'm looking for, right?
But knowing that upfront helpspeople make that, that decision,
so then it doesn't feel likeyou're fighting the whole time.
Janice Cook (22:31):
And it feels better on both sides to just know at
the beginning and take that gutcheck. Like this feels exciting.
I want to work that way too.
Branda (22:41):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (22:41):
Someone said once that your email inbox represents
other people's problems. I thinkabout that all the time, how
it's like I need to get one ortwo things off my list before I
head into that landmine ofthings in the email inbox. And I
think that helps me keep alittle bit of restraint. Do you
have, like, certain times of daythat you go in your inbox?
(23:03):
What's your structure forkeeping the inbox under control?
Branda (23:06):
Yeah, I really only check it, like, two times, maybe
three times a day. I usuallycheck it in the morning while I
usually eat breakfast, like atmy computer, and, like, I'll
watch a little video and checkmy inbox while I do that, and
I'll answer, like, quick thingsin the morning. So if it's like
a Yep, great, got it kind ofthing. And then in the
afternoons, after gotten thebulk of my copywriting done,
(23:27):
because again, mornings is likemy creativity time. I'll go back
and finish off some things. Andanything lingering, I do them
all on Friday. So it's my CEOday. So like that is one of my
tasks on Friday is I want towalk away with, like, a few
emails in my inbox, and they'relike emails I'm saving for some
reason, right?
Janice Cook (23:45):
Right. You're waiting for someone else to
circle back. There's nothing youcan do.
Branda (23:49):
Exactly.
Janice Cook (23:50):
Oh, and I wish I could hold up a big megaphone
right now, like Branda ischecking her email twice a day,
and the world didn't burn downaround her.
Branda (24:00):
No, it didn't.
Janice Cook (24:01):
But it takes trust.
It takes trying it out andseeing what happens, and
realizing it's okay. But yeah,if the words are flowing in the
morning, you have to strikewhile the iron is hot, and then
later, when you have that littlebit of a lull. All right, let me
see if I can save the world inmy inbox for a little bit.
Branda (24:18):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (24:19):
can't use your best energy in the inbox? Oh, we've
all learned that the hard way.
Branda (24:24):
yeah, because you can get trapped there. So
Janice Cook (24:26):
for sure. And then you said you keep one project on
your plate at a time. How do youtune out all the noise and all
the notifications and all thedistractions while you're trying
to go into deep focus mode?
Branda (24:39):
I mean, one of them is, again letting clients know
expectations. So also, somethingI did this year was like giving
firm kind of outlines fortimelines for everything. It's
also making sure my calendar isshowing like, this is what I'm
working on today, so my clientsknow when to expect things. They
know how quickly to expect, likerevisions back from me so
they're not like, you know, inmy inbox going, Hey, this is
(25:02):
going to get done today, right?
So I can focus on what I need toat a time. And then, yeah, like,
when I'm actually physicallyworking on what I need to do, I
don't have my inbox open, thatwas something I really learned
at the beginning of this year.
Like, if I have that in a tab, Iwill watch that number increase
as I'm doing things, and I will,like, go and check it. So now I
(25:22):
close out of Gmail. I usuallyput my phone away behind me, and
I turn on my little toggl timer,and I zone in and when that
timer is on. And some peopledon't believe me when I say
this, like my friends andfamily, like you time yourself?
That's so weird. And I'm like,when the timer's on, I literally
only do work. If my husbandcomes up to me and is talking to
(25:42):
me while I'm doing work, I turnoff my timer.
Janice Cook (25:44):
I have one that I hold up. Like, if my headphones
are on and I'm holding thistimer, it's like, I'm not - my
brain is not open right now.
Branda (25:53):
Yes, yeah, like, the timer's on, I'm working, and
when it's off, that's when Itake a little break - whatever I
need to do. So I don't know,just creating, I guess, the
conditions for myself to, like,do my best work too.
Janice Cook (26:05):
It's amazing what an accountability buddy, a time
tracking software can be. Justhaving the little dot open in a
tab being like, I'm keeping aneye on you. You said
intentionally that you wereworking on X
Branda (26:20):
Yeah.
Janice Cook (26:20):
What are you doing?
I'm a clockify girl, toggl and I- it's just not the vibe. But
time tracking is so, so useful,and it's really helpful to know.
Like, if I go in my inbox, itusually takes me say, 90
minutes. Oh, my goodness, allthe more reason not to go in
first thing over breakfast,because you don't realize how
long you're in there.
Branda (26:43):
Yeah, definitely. I think also too, like, I kind of
realized, after timing myselffor a month or so, how long it
would take me to, like, gettired throughout the day. So,
like, okay, if I'm feelingmyself like I'm just like, I'm
really slowing down, I can lookat the timer and I'm like, "Oh,
well, I've actually kind of,like, met my time for the day,
(27:03):
like, what I normally would hit.
So that's normal. If I'm feelingtired, I don't need to, like,
put extra pressure on myself,even if it's only 3pm and I got
what I needed to done." But I'mlike, let me think of some other
things to do. Like, will I hitthe time that I was expecting to
hit today? I got what I expectedto get done. I'm not going to
force myself to keep going, justso I can say, work until 4pm.
Janice Cook (27:24):
And like, what other job would do that? We have
these like, arbitraryexpectations we put on
ourselves, but we're we're justbeing a bad boss to ourselves
when we do that again.
Branda (27:34):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (27:35):
yeah. So a time tracker can totally be your
friend. It can teach you how youget your best work done. I have,
like, a two to three hour blockin the morning, that's amazing.
And another one after lunch, andafter that, we're in the bonus
round. If I answer an email,lovely. If I can listen to a
podcast and fold laundry that'smore aligned with, like, the
reality of what my brain cangive the world at that hour. And
(27:56):
that's okay. It also gets me outof bed faster. I know I was
second shower in our house lastyear and this school year, I
fought for first shower becauseI was like, No, I tried that. I
hated it. Like my brain is on inthe morning. I need to get my
butt to my desk and do thethings while I still can.
Branda (28:16):
Yep,
Janice Cook (28:17):
and so that that time tracker can tell yourself,
and if you can write a blog postin two hours in the morning, but
it takes you like, two threehour evenings. It's like, Well,
I'm not doing that again
Branda (28:26):
Exactly. Yeah. I think that is one of the big things
that have come out of timing. Islike, I can also see where my
brain is at that day. Like,yeah, okay, I know how long it
normally takes me to writesomething and but today it's
taking me like, twice as long.
It's like, I need to also givemyself a little bit of grace,
and again, because I have thatbuilt in buffer in my week,
maybe I can look at, okay, whatare some ways that maybe
tomorrow I can shift some thingsaround so I don't feel like I'm
(28:48):
having to rush through thistoday, because clearly, my brain
is moving slower today, forwhatever reason.
Janice Cook (28:56):
I'll tell you, as someone who works in the Project
Management Department, very fewpeople know how long a task
actually takes them or shouldtake them, whatever that means.
So when you're saving time onsomeone's calendar to write one
email to their list or write oneblog post, they don't have any
idea how long it took them thelast time they did that. And
(29:17):
that's what causes a lot of thefrustration for business owners.
And I think it's important forpeople to know how long tasks
take for them before they hirethem out, too. So if, if I know
that writing an email takes me20 minutes, or I know that
writing an email takes me anhour, or pricing for that same
task is going to feel verydifferently for me. A lot of
(29:39):
people head out to shop for aservice provider, I think before
they have that information aboutthe time that they would be
getting back and what they wouldbe doing with that time to make
back their investment. Timetracking is helpful in all the
ways.
Branda (29:54):
I'm actually so glad you said that, because I was just
having a conversation last weekwith a client on a discovery
call, and she was like, "oh yourpackages were, like, a little
bit pricier than I expected themto be", but like, five minutes
before that, she was like, "ittakes me, like, two hours to
write an email", and I'm like,they might be a little pricier
than you expected, but two hoursto write an email, that's a lot
of time. When you're writing anemail every week, that's a lot
(30:16):
of time to spend on something,and not everyone's going to
spend that amount of time on anemail. So I get that, right? We
all have different things. Like,for me, social media is my time
drainer. I hate creating socialmedia posts. So for me, that
would be something I would hireout for because it sucks up so
much of my time. But emails, Ican get them out quickly, so I
wouldn't hire for that, or Iwouldn't pay, you know, maybe as
much for that. So yeah, I thinkthat's a great point, too, yeah,
(30:38):
because the price might changebased on or your budget might
change, or expectations mightchange based on how much of a
time suck it is for you in yourbusiness.
Janice Cook (30:47):
I hired you to do a project inside my business, but
I hired you to take somethingoff my desk that had been stuck
on my desk for more than twoyears, which is very
embarrassing to say out loud,but there is no price on that at
that point, it was not moving. Ihad obviously done all the
things I had in my toolbox. Thiswas stuck. And so the cost to my
(31:10):
business for not having thatdone. There was no measuring it.
If you were the unicorn thatcould take that off my desk, I
obviously wasn't. So the pricewas what it was, and I just made
it work. But yeah, you need toto gather the information for
what the task is on your desk.
And if an email is takingsomeone two hours, they probably
should hire it out, because theycould make a new TPT product.
(31:33):
There are people out here thatcan make a high quality product
in two hours with a template,and earn back that money much
faster. And I think if someone'sspending two hours writing an
email, unless it's like, a fulllaunch sequence or something,
it's probably not ending up aslike a super strategic, like
home run email in the end, it'sprobably been over thought in a
circle a couple of times.
Branda (31:56):
Yeah, definitely, which we've all been there with
different things in ourbusiness. So I get it.
Janice Cook (31:59):
But there are definitely things that I hire
out because I'm like, not onlyis this gonna take me forever,
but at the end, it's gonna beterrible. Sometimes there's no
other option. You have to hire aunicorn.
Branda (32:10):
Yeah. For me, it's podcasting. I knew I was never
gonna do it unless someone didit for me.
Janice Cook (32:16):
Sometimes you just need those deadlines too, like,
this has to be to someone else'sdesk by Monday? Oh, well, I'm
not in the business of lettingpeople down.
Branda (32:22):
Yeah, exactly.
Janice Cook (32:24):
I am so glad that you shared your story. I learned
new things today about you,which was so exciting. You could
have stayed stuck at so manytimes in the story. It's so easy
to notice that running abusiness has become a hamster
wheel. You could have gone rightback in the classroom, and some
people do, and it would havebeen fine, but instead you got
curious, and you were like, no,no, this is what I want. I can
(32:47):
figure out how to do it. And youtook messy action, you took
scary changes, you exercisedthose muscles, and would you
feel like you're in, you're in awin-win season right now in
business?
Branda (32:59):
Yeah, I feel like this year has been so much better.
I've had a lot more moments thisyear where I get to the end of
the day and I go, "Oh, that wasit?" That's like a really good
feeling to feel like I didn'toverbook myself. I met all of my
deadlines. I feel really goodabout the projects I've put out
there. I feel really great aboutthe people I'm working with.
This is a great season.
Janice Cook (33:20):
And I think in those seasons, it feels extra
sweet knowing that it didn'tcome from the, like, traditional
college path, right?
Branda (33:27):
Yeah.
Janice Cook (33:28):
Like, you did this, you made this, this was an idea,
and you got scrappy, and youlearned the things you needed to
learn, and you figured it out.
And I sometimes think that'seven more fun than, like, I made
it to the end of a school year.
Well, yeah, but like someonetaught me how to do that,
Branda (33:45):
yeah.
Janice Cook (33:46):
Even, like, you got to live through a school year as
a student first. I never got tolive through any of this wild
business stuff before I jumpedin. So I think that's something
really big to celebrate.
Branda (33:56):
Yeah.
Janice Cook (33:57):
Branda, any other thoughts or questions that you
wish I had asked today, beforewe wrap up our time today.
Branda (34:03):
If I was going to give, like, any piece of advice to
anyone who's like, in a toughseason right now, I think the
best thing someone told me thatI worked with, and I think it's
different advice than I've evergotten from, like, a business
mentor. We often get asked thequestion, like, what do you love
doing in your business? Like,what does your dream business
look like? But this person islike, what do you love doing in
(34:24):
life? Like, what is your dreamlife look like? And that's the
place that we started. So itwasn't about what my business
look like. It was like, how manyhours do I want to work? Do I
want to travel? Is this like theplace I want to live? And she's
like, build your business aroundthat. Like, whatever the dream
you have is for your life. Buildyour business to fit that dream.
And that has really, like,transformed how I've done
(34:46):
business this year. And it's notlike I'm at this place where I'm
like, you know, living in aMcMansion, you know, no living
out in this like, but like, tome, it was the biggest thing was
not working so much. It was likeworking normal hours and getting
weekends and evenings back tomyself, and 100% I feel like
I've accomplished that thisyear, without sacrificing my
(35:07):
revenue, without sacrificing myboundaries, and continuing to
work with really great peoplethat I've really enjoyed. So
it's really has been a win-win.
Janice Cook (35:15):
Yeah and putting together a schedule where you
can say yes to opportunities inlife, being location
independent, being like,
Branda (35:21):
yeah,
Janice Cook (35:21):
I look and see what's on my desk. I can pick
this up and take it on the road.
There's even those trickymoments in business when we have
to replace our computer. I getso many big feelings about like,
am I buying a desktop or a laptoin this chapter, right?
Branda (35:35):
Yeah.
Janice Cook (35:36):
Am I a take my laptop to a coffee shop, kind of
girl? Or am I the more monitorsthe better?
Branda (35:43):
Yeah.
Janice Cook (35:43):
I need all of the things because you're you do
have to make a reallyintentional choice when you buy
your next computer, it's like,what does my life look like for
the next couple of years? Am Igoing to be flying all around
town, or am I going to be righthere in my cozy little office?
Branda (36:01):
yeah,
Janice Cook (36:01):
yeah, but leading with how you want your day to
look like is really, reallysmart, because I think now that
you've designed one job foryourself, you realize I could be
a good boss to myself. I couldprobably put together a path to
whatever I do want my day tolook like
Branda (36:17):
exactly.
Janice Cook (36:18):
Thank you so much for taking the time to chat
today, I love chatting withother teacher business owners.
Where can people find you, toconnect with you after our chat
today?
Branda (36:28):
I hang out on Instagram at the relevant collective. I
also have a podcast with my cohost, Melanie. She's an OBM, and
it's chaos to conversions. Youcan find it Spotify, Apple
podcast, all that stuff. We talkabout marketing, email
marketing, launching, prettymuch all things marketing, on
there. So that's also a greatplace to hear from us more.
Janice Cook (36:50):
I love your podcast. It's definitely not
like, surface level information.
I have to be ready and in thezone to learn, but it feels like
I got to, like, sneak into alittle marketing class at a
university. That's how I alwaysfeel when I sit down for your
cozy podcast, like I cranked thedoor open and just like snuck in
the back row.
Branda (37:07):
I love hearing that, because that's was our whole
intention. We're like, we don'tI still want this to be another
podcast for beginners, like wewant it to be for people who are
a little more established to digdeeper. So that makes me feel
good.
Janice Cook (37:18):
That is how I feel.
I'm such a fan of the work thatyou and Melanie do, and I will
leave all your magic links inthe show notes, as we do over
here in podcast land. Thank youso much for chatting with me
today, Branda.
Branda (37:31):
Thanks so much for having me.
Janice Cook (37:34):
Thanks for making this podcast a part of your day.
Do you have a win-win teacherbusiness story you'd like to
share? head tocookfamilyresources.com/podcast
to find my guest application.
I'll also leave that link in theshow notes for you. See you in
the next episode.
Joining us today for a guest conversation is
Branda. Branda is the emailcopywriter, launch strategist,
and chocoholic behind TheRelevant Collective. She writes
strategic copy for formerteachers turned business owners
who channel their skills fromthe classroom into thriving
service and product basedbusinesses. She's all about
(00:21):
turning your pie in the skygoals into reality. In today's
Coffee Chat, we talk about thedanger of saying yes to
everything, how we sometimesbring the same work habits from
our first career into oursecond, and how that's both a
pro and a con. We'll talk abouthow no one's coming to save us,
(00:42):
and we have to build our ownpath to the dream day of what we
want our life to look like. Ihope you enjoy this chat with
Branda as much as I did, andhead into the show notes to
connect with her. I'll leave allof the links down below.
You're listening to Your Win-WinTeacher Business, a podcast for
(01:04):
teacher authors who want to makea big impact in the world for
teachers and students and havefun doing it. I'm your host,
Janice Cook, here with a peptalk to start your week off
strong. Some seasons of runninga business feel hard and sticky,
but it shouldn't feel like thatall the time. Let's make your
business a win-win together.
(01:25):
Hi, Branda, thanks for beinghere today.
Branda (01:27):
Hi. Thanks so much for having me.
Janice Cook (01:30):
I am so excited to talk business today. I would
love to hear why you startedyour business way back in the
day.
Branda (01:38):
I would love to say that I had this, like, really amazing
origin story, of, like, I justknew I was destined to be a
copywriter, but that's reallynot how it happened. I think,
like a lot of us inentrepreneurship, I kind of just
like, fell into it. I had beenteaching for five years, and my
fourth year teaching was reallybrutal. I really did not want to
(01:59):
go into a fifth year, but it waskind of one of those, like, I
need to make money, so I have todo another year type things,
Janice Cook (02:06):
adulting,
Branda (02:07):
yes. So I went into my fifth year and I knew I wanted
to leave. So I had been applyingto jobs when I knew I wanted to
leave my fourth year, and I justwasn't really successful, like
finding a job outside ofteaching. So I was like, Well, I
am going to just make my own waythen. And I kind of, I'd already
been doing some business thingsalready, like I had been selling
(02:30):
on TPT, so I was already kind oflike in the TPT world. And I was
thinking, like, What do I likedoing out of this, you know? And
it really was the writing sideof things. Like, I loved writing
emails. I loved writing blogs.
So I kind of just like, youknow, what did they say? Like, a
shoot, my shot kind of thing,you know, I threw it out there
in one of the TPT groups, and Iwas like, Hey, if you want
someone to write your blogs foryou, I'll do it. And it just
(02:50):
kind of took off from there. Andby the end of that school year,
I had saved up enough that I waslike, All right, I'm gonna,
like, dive in and and go for it.
So that's kind of like the veryunromantic version. I mean, I
guess the romantic version is,like, I always did love writing
when I was a kid. I, like, usedto write stories and I wanted to
(03:14):
be an author. So it was kind oflike a combination of things I
already enjoyed doing and alsogetting out of a bad situation.
Janice Cook (03:23):
Yeah! Remind me what you taught.
Branda (03:25):
I taught English.
Janice Cook (03:26):
Yeah, no, I just didn't want to guess I thought
you were an ELA teacher. Yeah,and it's so interesting. I think
the jobs that a lot of us donow, they just like, weren't on
the menu on Career Day back inthe day. Yeah, like you knew you
liked writing, so you became anELA teacher. Your guidance
counselor probably didn't tellyou, you could also write blogs
like you could be a ghostwriter, or you could be a
(03:47):
copywriter. My guidancecounselor didn't know about
copywriters.
Branda (03:50):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (03:51):
I feel like that just wasn't on their radar, and
that's not their fault. So Ithink that always makes me feel
better when we don't take ourlinear path through career land,
it's like, well, wait a minute.
I didn't know this was anoption. I changed my mind. Like
the menu changed, I want to spinthe big wheel again, but I love
that you brought it back tolike, how do I enjoy spending my
day? And I think we need do.
(04:13):
Need to hear the success storiesof forging your own path,
because no one's going to stopby and save us. If you're not
happy with the way things are,like, you gotta go make a plan
and dig yourself out.
Branda (04:25):
Exactly. I totally agree. And I'm like, very happy
that I did, but I think I've hadlike, moments in the beginning,
I definitely wasn't one of thosepeople who, like, it was hard
for me to leave teachingmentally, I was ready to go by
the end. But I think sometimes Ifelt like, did I waste this
career? Like, right? Like, Ijust went about a degree for
(04:46):
this. But then I really think ofit as like, that was just the
opportunity that life gave me.
Like, if I hadn't been teaching,then I would have never started
a TPT business, I would havenever met the people that I did,
and I would never have thisbusiness that I do now.
Janice Cook (04:59):
And I feel like you have such a strong understanding
of the people who read yourwords, the people who read the
blog post, the people who readthe emails, and such an intimate
understanding of the problemsthey are set out to trying to
solve. So I don't think my timein the classroom was a waste,
personally. The college degreestings, right? Mine's paid off,
yeah, like, whatever water underthe bridge. And I think what
(05:22):
stings for me about it is thesecond career is equally as
profitable, but with no degree.
So you're like,
Branda (05:30):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (05:30):
Interesting. There were jobs out there that could
have been a little faster, andwe didn't know it's okay,
Branda (05:37):
yeah, for sure.
Janice Cook (05:39):
So you needed out of the classroom, been there,
and you were like, We're gonnamake this happen. I probably
stayed two years longer than Ishould have, so I actually
really admire how quickly youpulled your plan to get there
and got out.
Branda (05:53):
Yeah, I think I was really fortunate in that way. I
don't think that that was like aquick start that most people
had, but I think again, becauseI'd already been kind of in that
space. A lot of the people thatI worked with in the very
beginning were people I'd met,like networking and Facebook
groups and stuff like that forseveral years prior. So it was
like a easier community to pullfrom because, like, we already
(06:14):
had that established trustfactor and all of those things.
Like, we'd been chatting forseveral years before. I was
like, Hey, you want to hire mefor this. So I think it was just
an easier sell.
Janice Cook (06:25):
No, absolutely you had a network, no doubt. So you
wanted to spend your daywriting. You wanted to get out
of the classroom. You did it.
Win-win. Has it always been awin win, or have there been any
moments that are a littlechallenging and sticky?
Branda (06:40):
Oh definitely not always a win. I mean, there have been
so many moments I really - thisyear, to me especially, has been
the year of really figuring out- you don't get to step into
your business and like you stepoutside of yourself, right? All
(07:00):
the things that you strugglewith in your own life are going
to be the same thing. So youalso struggle with in your
business. So if maybe you're notgreat at budgeting or finances,
you'll probably bring that withyou. If you're not good at
saying no, you'll bring thatwith you.
Janice Cook (07:13):
Oh, my goodness, isn't that the truth?
Branda (07:16):
So I really, I was in a mastermind last year, and that
kind of started that, like,brainstorming process for me, of
like, why does this feel sohard? Why am I really struggling
to, like, get my time managementin place? I feel like I'm
working 24/7 - like I quit ateaching job because I didn't
want to feel like this. I didn'twant to feel anxious all the
(07:37):
time. I didn't want to feel likeI couldn't step away from my
work, and now I'm doing theexact same thing times 10. Like,
it's not the same stress asbeing in the classroom, but
like, it's just another kind ofstress that I just, like,
welcomed into my life. And isthis what I wanted? Like, I
didn't become a business ownerto stress myself out. I wanted
more freedom.
Janice Cook (07:57):
How did we get here? Because brick by brick,
you built a new path, and thenyou're like, Oh no, we're right
back where we started.
Branda (08:05):
Yeah, it's like, I did that. I did that to me. I don't
have a boss who, like, assignedthis work to me, right? None of
my clients, like forced me tointo signing a contract with
them.
Janice Cook (08:15):
I'm my own toxic boss. Oh no. Definitely been
there. Was it like the hours,like all the unpaid time you
were putting in as a teacher,and now your hours were
terrible?
Branda (08:27):
I think a lot of it was also fear, like, there's a lot
of anxiety in business, right?
Because you're like, Okay, well,I'm responsible for all my
money, so that means I better bemaking all the money, because I
have bills to pay and I can'tnot. So I would just like, say
yes to everything. Even if I'mlooking at my calendar and I'm
like, there is no freaking way,like, I literally cannot fit
something in. I'd be like,"Sure, great." because I'm
(08:49):
thinking, like, well, what if Ineed that money, right? Like,
what if I get to a point, whatif three months from now,
everything stops? I'm gonna wishI had taken that project. Yeah,
and so I was doing a lot ofthings out of fear, but then I
would be so overworked. I'mworking until like 10pm at
night. I'm exhausted, I'mcranky. I'm working on the
weekends when I really don'twant to be so I'm irritable, you
know? And it's like I had tocome to this realization of,
(09:13):
like, am I also putting in,like, my best work? Because now
I'm, like, irritable, and I'mwriting this, like, just trying
to get through it as quickly aspossible. And I don't ever want
to feel like I'm doing work thatisn't my best work, like that's
not a good feeling to be sittingthere going, was this my best
you know.
Janice Cook (09:32):
And freelancer life is really tricky like that,
because you never want to notdeliver on a promised deadline.
But I also don't want myselfinside someone's business if I'm
not in a good head space.
Branda (09:42):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (09:43):
I honor your business too much to go near it
right now. So I'm going tochoose of like, the two crummy
scenarios on this menu, and I'mgoing to deliver one day late,
but it's not going to beterrible.
Branda (09:53):
Yeah.
Janice Cook (09:54):
And you have to trust that that's going to be
okay. But in those moments youdo it, you are driving the bus
out of fear no doubt, becauseyou don't know. Like, if I say
"not right now", will they waituntil I have an actual opening?
If I say no, will something elsecome up?
Branda (10:12):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (10:13):
you don't know
Branda (10:14):
exactly,
Janice Cook (10:15):
But there is a point where you realize, like, I
literally can't do anythingelse, and you are forced to take
that choice and flex thatmuscle. So how did you like pull
things back into focus andfigure out what your capacity
was, where you were happy, youcould do high quality work and
you could afford to pay thebills?
Branda (10:35):
Yeah, I think it was a combination of a lot of things.
I think one of the big ones forme is, and a lot of this is
working with other people. Iwon't, like, pretend like I came
up with all these genius ideason my own. A lot of it was
working with coaches and findingpeople who were, like, really
good at what I wanted them tocoach me on. Like, not just
finding, like, some generalbusiness manager, but someone
who's like, I help you with thisthing.
Janice Cook (10:56):
I help anxious, overloaded former teachers,
right? They have to say all theright words.
Branda (11:01):
Yes. So I worked with various from people. One of them
was really good at the capacity,like I was, I went to her and I
was like, I would like to makemore money. And she's looking at
my calendar and going, well,there's no way you can make more
money because you have no moretime, right? So she's like,
well, let's figure out thecapacity problem. And she helped
me create a kind of system formapping out how many projects I
(11:24):
can take. I've used this for thepast year plus now, and that's
made a huge difference, becausenow I sure I could overbook
myself, but it's very clear whenI look at my calendar and I have
no white space, literally,there's not a single white box
open. I'm like, Oh, I don't havetime to do that,
Janice Cook (11:39):
And knowing is half the battle, right? Yes, like
I've said to my friends, I'mplus one on client capacity.
Just knowing that is a world ofdifference in how you sit down
at the office on Monday morning,knowing that, like, if your
capacity was four, you havefive, if your capacity was 10,
you have 11, yeah, knowing thatyou've intentionally overbooked
(12:02):
a smidge,
Branda (12:03):
Yes,
Janice Cook (12:03):
puts you in a much different mindset than when,
like, you don't even know whatyour capacity is, and you're
just living with, like, yourfingers crossed.
Branda (12:10):
Yeah, you're definitely right about that. It, I think.
And maybe that was one of thebiggest problems I had the first
year in business, I wouldalways, like, under estimate how
long something would take me. Sothen I was like, Oh, I could get
that done in a day, and it wouldreally take like, two days, and
then everything gets pushedright. And now here I am, 10pm
Friday night, trying to bust outthis project, because I've
(12:32):
promised someone I'm going toturn it in, right? But just like
you said earlier, it was alsolike, I am someone who has a
hard time. I don't want todisappoint anyone. That's just a
personal thing about me thatI've brought into my business.
Janice Cook (12:44):
And that's a good quality and a service provider,
Branda (12:46):
I was gonna say, in some ways that's that's a good thing,
because I always want to do mybest. In some ways that's bad,
because I've had moments whereI'm like, I should tell someone,
hey, I gonna need one extra day.
And in the beginning of mybusiness, that was not easy for
me. Now I book all of myprojects with extra days built
in. So I will tell a client likewe've worked together, and I
might tell you, hey, Janice, I'mgoing to deliver your project on
(13:08):
the 10th. I know I'm not goingto be writing it anywhere near
the 10th, but I've told you thatdate because that gives me extra
time if I get sick, if anelection happens and implodes my
world, if anything else in theworld goes awry, I have extra
time. And I sure I could stillreach out to you if like, really
things go wrong, but that rarelyhappens nowadays that I even
(13:30):
have to do that because I know Ihave that extra time built in.
Janice Cook (13:34):
And it's always good to over deliver so if you
leave yourself space there, I'llalways take your fabulous work
early. And I think it's alsoimportant, all the people that
we work with need to hear thisreminder. You can't schedule
creativity. You can't say thatat 9am on Tuesday, the words are
going to be a flowing andthey're going to be magical.
That's just not how creativityworks. So it happens with
(13:56):
teachers pay teachers sellers,who are like, I am going to make
a product on Wednesday. Myentire calendar is clear, and it
will begin and end on Wednesday.
Yeah, right, that's not how yourbest products were ever born.
There's rabbit holes, and youhave to open another tab and
sketch another idea and A / B,look at two choices, and I don't
want to rush that magic. That'show we get to something really
(14:18):
good at the end. So it does takesome serious relationship
building. A lot of times thatemail that you're changing a
deadline sounds like I reallylike where this project is
headed. I need to follow it tothe finish line. That means it's
going to be one day late.
Branda (14:34):
Yeah
Janice Cook (14:35):
It's going to be late, but it's going to be worth
it. I refuse to rush throughthings and have them be poor
quality. And I suspect you'rethe same way.
Branda (14:43):
100%. I don't like that feeling at all. You know, again,
especially when I know someonehas trusted me with their
business, I'm like, not onlyfinancially, but like, you've
literally put your business inmy hands to deliver the best I
want to do the best,
Janice Cook (14:57):
Right.
Branda (14:57):
So having that built in time has helped. And like you
said, with creativity, that'salso something, and this is
something a service provider ora digital seller could do is
like, I have purposeful days andevery week now I only work on
client work four days out of theweek. One of those days is for
me. So could be the same withsomeone who does courses or, you
know, sells digital productsonline, where you're only doing
(15:19):
maybe three or four days ofcreation of something. That's a
lot. It is a lot of like, mentalenergy that goes into creating
something, to writing forsomeone, to writing for
yourself. I need a day where Ican just, like, knock the things
off my to do list, and also itgives me, like, something to
look forward to. I'm like, Okay,one more day. It's like, get
through things right? And then Ihave a day where I can, like,
(15:40):
still work, but it's morerelaxed.
Janice Cook (15:42):
I need variety for my brain. So, like, there has to
be some flow during the week. Itcan't be the same types of tasks
every day. What about yourcreative brain? Does it like
come to life in the evening, oris it sharp first thing in the
morning?
Branda (15:56):
Definetly morning. I get my best work done in the
mornings. The afternoons arelittle, little on the sketchy
side.
Janice Cook (16:03):
So there's so many times that you're like, maybe
I'll just do this task afterdinner. No, I won't. It won't be
good. And it's every time I dothat to myself and I sit down,
I'm like, this is not - the goodwork is not about to come
flowing out of this situation.
Branda (16:17):
Yeah? Oh, 100% agree.
I'm definitely most creative inthe morning.
Janice Cook (16:21):
Yeah, I'm a fresh cup of coffee kind of girl,
Branda (16:23):
yeah.
Janice Cook (16:24):
And so you learn those things by putting yourself
in boxes that you don't fit in,right? We try to do work at
night, and we say, okay, neveragain. You try to work for five
days, and you're like, Oh,that's not it either. You try to
take x clients, you realizethat's one too many, and then
you put the white space back inand so the journey is one that
we celebrate all of these thingsthat we know about ourselves
(16:45):
really well. We learned reallyhard lessons along the way.
Branda (16:49):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (16:50):
but if it gets you to a place where you're clear on
your capacity, oh my goodness,that's amazing. Yeah, one thing
he said that really caught myeye was a phrase called emails
are going unread. Can you sharea little bit more about that
feeling?
Branda (17:05):
There were a lot of moments in my business where
emails were going unread becauseit's too much like I'm I'm
absolutely overwhelmed, right?
And the things are stacking upin your inbox, and it is chaotic
and stressful, and you're hopingthat one moment you're going to
find to actually sit down andsift through it all. But I think
also, like nowadays, it's alittle more intentional too, at
times, like emails going unread,like sometimes, that is my
(17:28):
boundary of being able to say,All right, it's 4pm I'm logging
off. I'm going to my workout andI'll take care of it in the
morning. Or if I'm getting anemail at 3pm and it's not super
urgent, you know, I can handlethat tomorrow. I've set those
expectations that I don't emailback right away and I can get
back to them in the morning.
Janice Cook (17:50):
I'm not an EMT. No.
Babies aren't gonna die.
Branda (17:54):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (17:54):
This is okay. This can wait till tomorrow. And it's
such a muscle you have toexercise at the beginning of
your business. You're like, Ihave to hop on this juicy lead
immediately,
Branda (18:05):
yeah.
Janice Cook (18:05):
Or they're probably going to change their mind and
I'm never going to get work everagain, right?
Branda (18:09):
Yeah.
Janice Cook (18:10):
And then you're like, No, wait a second, I could
probably respond in 24 hours,and it'd be okay. And then 24
hours turns into one businessday, and every once in a while
you hear on a podcast fromsomeone who can go 2 business
days. I'm not there yet. I haveheard that some people can go,
like, 24 to 48 hours, or one totwo business days. And I'm like,
(18:33):
Oh, 2 business days. But I don'tknow. You just have to try it,
because there are some dayswhere you feel your human
limits, and more emails havecome in than you can get back to
in one day.
Branda (18:47):
Yeah, 100%. It's one of those things that when you are,
you know, especially if you're aservice provider. But even
outside of that space, I thinksometimes, yeah, we think people
also expect us to respond withina couple hours, and maybe they
do, but if you do wait abusiness day, or do wait two
business days, and that's like ared flag for someone and like,
(19:08):
oh, well, I couldn't, I couldn'twork with you, or I could never
buy from this company again. Andthat also says something about
that person. Obviously they're abad person, but like, okay, then
our expectations aren't aligned,and then we probably aren't a
good fit, because even with myclients, who are obviously the
priority in my business, I'm notresponding to their emails,
typically, unless I just happento have my email inbox open and
(19:30):
sitting down to answer stuff I'mnot normally answering in an
hour or two, right? 100% it'snormally going to take me a bit
to get to things, because mostof the stuff, it's not urgent,
right? It's stuff that it canwait until I'm done with
whatever I need to get throughtoday. So, and I think, you
know, for me again, after thatkind of first year, so in
business, setting thoseboundaries was kind of hard,
(19:51):
because there were a lot ofpeople I had been working with
for a while, and I do think it'sharder. It's like teaching,
right? It's harder when, like,you have. And the lenient
teacher who's like, chill,relax, and all of a sudden
you're like, actually, I'm goingto be requiring this from you,
like, you're going to get thekids who push back because
they're like, well, that's notwhat you've expected so far.
Janice Cook (20:12):
That's not the lifestyle we were living. Wait a
second,
Branda (20:14):
it was really chill, you know. And I did have, you know,
a few clients who I kind of putsome boundaries in place with
them, and it wasn't receivedsuper well, and that's okay. I
hadn't set those expectationsbefore we started working
together, so it's like, okay,and this is where our time will
now end, because now we're notaligned anymore.
Janice Cook (20:33):
It's not a win-win.
Yeah!
Branda (20:35):
That's okay, but there will be other people who are
aligned with me. But yeah,again, I think it's that fear.
We don't put the boundariesbecause we fear, well, if I
don't answer in an hour, well,if I just don't do what they
said they want me to do, arethey going to walk away? Does
that mean I'm not going to meetthe goals that I have for
myself?
Janice Cook (20:51):
Right? And I know it takes some time to build that
trust, and you have to earn thattrust, but the clients that I've
been with a long time know that,like, if it's not their day on
my schedule, I can't open up atab for their business. But when
I do open that tab, theyappreciate getting my undivided
attention on their day, becausethey know I'm going to be there
(21:13):
to unpack their deepest, darkestquestions and secrets, and we're
going to fully solve theproblem. And I just know that I
can't do my best work if I'manswering questions really
quickly. If I could table thisfor one more day, I could give
you a really meaty, juicy, muchmore high quality answer. And so
yeah, when you attract win-winpeople and you find the right
(21:35):
team members and the rightclients, then that feels good
for both parties. They're like,when you get around to it, I
would love to chat about X, andyou're like, Yes, I also would
love to talk about that, but,like, in a big, expansive amount
of time not running out thedoor.
Branda (21:52):
Yes, exactly. I think that's again, we're like,
putting those boundaries in inplace, or even just expectations
in place. Like, when I sit downwith a discovery call and
everything, like, I say, like,this is my style, and it's
because it gives people a chanceto say that works for me, or
that does it. Because we're allgoing to have different things
that we want from the peoplethat we work with and the people
in our lives. And I, I don'tfind that offensive at all.
(22:14):
There are people that I'm like,Oh, that's not my style, right?
That's not the person I wouldwork with. And then I'm going to
find people who are who may be alittle more laid back, or
whatever I'm looking for, right?
But knowing that upfront helpspeople make that, that decision,
so then it doesn't feel likeyou're fighting the whole time.
Janice Cook (22:31):
And it feels better on both sides to just know at
the beginning and take that gutcheck. Like this feels exciting.
I want to work that way too.
Branda (22:41):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (22:41):
Someone said once that your email inbox represents
other people's problems. I thinkabout that all the time, how
it's like I need to get one ortwo things off my list before I
head into that landmine ofthings in the email inbox. And I
think that helps me keep alittle bit of restraint. Do you
have, like, certain times of daythat you go in your inbox?
(23:03):
What's your structure forkeeping the inbox under control?
Branda (23:06):
Yeah, I really only check it, like, two times, maybe
three times a day. I usuallycheck it in the morning while I
usually eat breakfast, like atmy computer, and, like, I'll
watch a little video and checkmy inbox while I do that, and
I'll answer, like, quick thingsin the morning. So if it's like
a Yep, great, got it kind ofthing. And then in the
afternoons, after gotten thebulk of my copywriting done,
(23:27):
because again, mornings is likemy creativity time. I'll go back
and finish off some things. Andanything lingering, I do them
all on Friday. So it's my CEOday. So like that is one of my
tasks on Friday is I want towalk away with, like, a few
emails in my inbox, and they'relike emails I'm saving for some
reason, right?
Janice Cook (23:45):
Right. You're waiting for someone else to
circle back. There's nothing youcan do.
Branda (23:49):
Exactly.
Janice Cook (23:50):
Oh, and I wish I could hold up a big megaphone
right now, like Branda ischecking her email twice a day,
and the world didn't burn downaround her.
Branda (24:00):
No, it didn't.
Janice Cook (24:01):
But it takes trust.
It takes trying it out andseeing what happens, and
realizing it's okay. But yeah,if the words are flowing in the
morning, you have to strikewhile the iron is hot, and then
later, when you have that littlebit of a lull. All right, let me
see if I can save the world inmy inbox for a little bit.
Branda (24:18):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (24:19):
can't use your best energy in the inbox? Oh, we've
all learned that the hard way.
Branda (24:24):
yeah, because you can get trapped there. So
Janice Cook (24:26):
for sure. And then you said you keep one project on
your plate at a time. How do youtune out all the noise and all
the notifications and all thedistractions while you're trying
to go into deep focus mode?
Branda (24:39):
I mean, one of them is, again letting clients know
expectations. So also, somethingI did this year was like giving
firm kind of outlines fortimelines for everything. It's
also making sure my calendar isshowing like, this is what I'm
working on today, so my clientsknow when to expect things. They
know how quickly to expect, likerevisions back from me so
they're not like, you know, inmy inbox going, Hey, this is
(25:02):
going to get done today, right?
So I can focus on what I need toat a time. And then, yeah, like,
when I'm actually physicallyworking on what I need to do, I
don't have my inbox open, thatwas something I really learned
at the beginning of this year.
Like, if I have that in a tab, Iwill watch that number increase
as I'm doing things, and I will,like, go and check it. So now I
(25:22):
close out of Gmail. I usuallyput my phone away behind me, and
I turn on my little toggl timer,and I zone in and when that
timer is on. And some peopledon't believe me when I say
this, like my friends andfamily, like you time yourself?
That's so weird. And I'm like,when the timer's on, I literally
only do work. If my husbandcomes up to me and is talking to
(25:42):
me while I'm doing work, I turnoff my timer.
Janice Cook (25:44):
I have one that I hold up. Like, if my headphones
are on and I'm holding thistimer, it's like, I'm not - my
brain is not open right now.
Branda (25:53):
Yes, yeah, like, the timer's on, I'm working, and
when it's off, that's when Itake a little break - whatever I
need to do. So I don't know,just creating, I guess, the
conditions for myself to, like,do my best work too.
Janice Cook (26:05):
It's amazing what an accountability buddy, a time
tracking software can be. Justhaving the little dot open in a
tab being like, I'm keeping aneye on you. You said
intentionally that you wereworking on X
Branda (26:20):
Yeah.
Janice Cook (26:20):
What are you doing?
I'm a clockify girl, toggl and I- it's just not the vibe. But
time tracking is so, so useful,and it's really helpful to know.
Like, if I go in my inbox, itusually takes me say, 90
minutes. Oh, my goodness, allthe more reason not to go in
first thing over breakfast,because you don't realize how
long you're in there.
Branda (26:43):
Yeah, definitely. I think also too, like, I kind of
realized, after timing myselffor a month or so, how long it
would take me to, like, gettired throughout the day. So,
like, okay, if I'm feelingmyself like I'm just like, I'm
really slowing down, I can lookat the timer and I'm like, "Oh,
well, I've actually kind of,like, met my time for the day,
(27:03):
like, what I normally would hit.
So that's normal. If I'm feelingtired, I don't need to, like,
put extra pressure on myself,even if it's only 3pm and I got
what I needed to done." But I'mlike, let me think of some other
things to do. Like, will I hitthe time that I was expecting to
hit today? I got what I expectedto get done. I'm not going to
force myself to keep going, justso I can say, work until 4pm.
Janice Cook (27:24):
And like, what other job would do that? We have
these like, arbitraryexpectations we put on
ourselves, but we're we're justbeing a bad boss to ourselves
when we do that again.
Branda (27:34):
Yeah,
Janice Cook (27:35):
yeah. So a time tracker can totally be your
friend. It can teach you how youget your best work done. I have,
like, a two to three hour blockin the morning, that's amazing.
And another one after lunch, andafter that, we're in the bonus
round. If I answer an email,lovely. If I can listen to a
podcast and fold laundry that'smore aligned with, like, the
reality of what my brain cangive the world at that hour. And
(27:56):
that's okay. It also gets me outof bed faster. I know I was
second shower in our house lastyear and this school year, I
fought for first shower becauseI was like, No, I tried that. I
hated it. Like my brain is on inthe morning. I need to get my
butt to my desk and do thethings while I still can.
Branda (28:16):
Yep,
Janice Cook (28:17):
and so that that time tracker can tell yourself,
and if you can write a blog postin two hours in the morning, but
it takes you like, two threehour evenings. It's like, Well,
I'm not doing that again
Branda (28:26):
Exactly. Yeah. I think that is one of the big things
that have come out of timing. Islike, I can also see where my
brain is at that day. Like,yeah, okay, I know how long it
normally takes me to writesomething and but today it's
taking me like, twice as long.
It's like, I need to also givemyself a little bit of grace,
and again, because I have thatbuilt in buffer in my week,
maybe I can look at, okay, whatare some ways that maybe
tomorrow I can shift some thingsaround so I don't feel like I'm
(28:48):
having to rush through thistoday, because clearly, my brain
is moving slower today, forwhatever reason.
Janice Cook (28:56):
I'll tell you, as someone who works in the Project
Management Department, very fewpeople know how long a task
actually takes them or shouldtake them, whatever that means.
So when you're saving time onsomeone's calendar to write one
email to their list or write oneblog post, they don't have any
idea how long it took them thelast time they did that. And
(29:17):
that's what causes a lot of thefrustration for business owners.
And I think it's important forpeople to know how long tasks
take for them before they hirethem out, too. So if, if I know
that writing an email takes me20 minutes, or I know that
writing an email takes me anhour, or pricing for that same
task is going to feel verydifferently for me. A lot of
(29:39):
people head out to shop for aservice provider, I think before
they have that information aboutthe time that they would be
getting back and what they wouldbe doing with that time to make
back their investment. Timetracking is helpful in all the
ways.
Branda (29:54):
I'm actually so glad you said that, because I was just
having a conversation last weekwith a client on a discovery
call, and she was like, "oh yourpackages were, like, a little
bit pricier than I expected themto be", but like, five minutes
before that, she was like, "ittakes me, like, two hours to
write an email", and I'm like,they might be a little pricier
than you expected, but two hoursto write an email, that's a lot
of time. When you're writing anemail every week, that's a lot
(30:16):
of time to spend on something,and not everyone's going to
spend that amount of time on anemail. So I get that, right? We
all have different things. Like,for me, social media is my time
drainer. I hate creating socialmedia posts. So for me, that
would be something I would hireout for because it sucks up so
much of my time. But emails, Ican get them out quickly, so I
wouldn't hire for that, or Iwouldn't pay, you know, maybe as
much for that. So yeah, I thinkthat's a great point, too, yeah,
(30:38):
because the price might changebased on or your budget might
change, or expectations mightchange based on how much of a
time suck it is for you in yourbusiness.
Janice Cook (30:47):
I hired you to do a project inside my business, but
I hired you to take somethingoff my desk that had been stuck
on my desk for more than twoyears, which is very
embarrassing to say out loud,but there is no price on that at
that point, it was not moving. Ihad obviously done all the
things I had in my toolbox. Thiswas stuck. And so the cost to my
(31:10):
business for not having thatdone. There was no measuring it.
If you were the unicorn thatcould take that off my desk, I
obviously wasn't. So the pricewas what it was, and I just made
it work. But yeah, you need toto gather the information for
what the task is on your desk.
And if an email is takingsomeone two hours, they probably
should hire it out, because theycould make a new TPT product.
(31:33):
There are people out here thatcan make a high quality product
in two hours with a template,and earn back that money much
faster. And I think if someone'sspending two hours writing an
email, unless it's like, a fulllaunch sequence or something,
it's probably not ending up aslike a super strategic, like
home run email in the end, it'sprobably been over thought in a
circle a couple of times.
Branda (31:56):
Yeah, definitely, which we've all been there with
different things in ourbusiness. So I get it.
Janice Cook (31:59):
But there are definitely things that I hire
out because I'm like, not onlyis this gonna take me forever,
but at the end, it's gonna beterrible. Sometimes there's no
other option. You have to hire aunicorn.
Branda (32:10):
Yeah. For me, it's podcasting. I knew I was never
gonna do it unless someone didit for me.
Janice Cook (32:16):
Sometimes you just need those deadlines too, like,
this has to be to someone else'sdesk by Monday? Oh, well, I'm
not in the business of lettingpeople down.
Branda (32:22):
Yeah, exactly.
Janice Cook (32:24):
I am so glad that you shared your story. I learned
new things today about you,which was so exciting. You could
have stayed stuck at so manytimes in the story. It's so easy
to notice that running abusiness has become a hamster
wheel. You could have gone rightback in the classroom, and some
people do, and it would havebeen fine, but instead you got
curious, and you were like, no,no, this is what I want. I can
(32:47):
figure out how to do it. And youtook messy action, you took
scary changes, you exercisedthose muscles, and would you
feel like you're in, you're in awin-win season right now in
business?
Branda (32:59):
Yeah, I feel like this year has been so much better.
I've had a lot more moments thisyear where I get to the end of
the day and I go, "Oh, that wasit?" That's like a really good
feeling to feel like I didn'toverbook myself. I met all of my
deadlines. I feel really goodabout the projects I've put out
there. I feel really great aboutthe people I'm working with.
This is a great season.
Janice Cook (33:20):
And I think in those seasons, it feels extra
sweet knowing that it didn'tcome from the, like, traditional
college path, right?
Branda (33:27):
Yeah.
Janice Cook (33:28):
Like, you did this, you made this, this was an idea,
and you got scrappy, and youlearned the things you needed to
learn, and you figured it out.
And I sometimes think that'seven more fun than, like, I made
it to the end of a school year.
Well, yeah, but like someonetaught me how to do that,
Branda (33:45):
yeah.
Janice Cook (33:46):
Even, like, you got to live through a school year as
a student first. I never got tolive through any of this wild
business stuff before I jumpedin. So I think that's something
really big to celebrate.
Branda (33:56):
Yeah.
Janice Cook (33:57):
Branda, any other thoughts or questions that you
wish I had asked today, beforewe wrap up our time today.
Branda (34:03):
If I was going to give, like, any piece of advice to
anyone who's like, in a toughseason right now, I think the
best thing someone told me thatI worked with, and I think it's
different advice than I've evergotten from, like, a business
mentor. We often get asked thequestion, like, what do you love
doing in your business? Like,what does your dream business
look like? But this person islike, what do you love doing in
(34:24):
life? Like, what is your dreamlife look like? And that's the
place that we started. So itwasn't about what my business
look like. It was like, how manyhours do I want to work? Do I
want to travel? Is this like theplace I want to live? And she's
like, build your business aroundthat. Like, whatever the dream
you have is for your life. Buildyour business to fit that dream.
And that has really, like,transformed how I've done
(34:46):
business this year. And it's notlike I'm at this place where I'm
like, you know, living in aMcMansion, you know, no living
out in this like, but like, tome, it was the biggest thing was
not working so much. It was likeworking normal hours and getting
weekends and evenings back tomyself, and 100% I feel like
I've accomplished that thisyear, without sacrificing my
(35:07):
revenue, without sacrificing myboundaries, and continuing to
work with really great peoplethat I've really enjoyed. So
it's really has been a win-win.
Janice Cook (35:15):
Yeah and putting together a schedule where you
can say yes to opportunities inlife, being location
independent, being like,
Branda (35:21):
yeah,
Janice Cook (35:21):
I look and see what's on my desk. I can pick
this up and take it on the road.
There's even those trickymoments in business when we have
to replace our computer. I getso many big feelings about like,
am I buying a desktop or a laptoin this chapter, right?
Branda (35:35):
Yeah.
Janice Cook (35:36):
Am I a take my laptop to a coffee shop, kind of
girl? Or am I the more monitorsthe better?
Branda (35:43):
Yeah.
Janice Cook (35:43):
I need all of the things because you're you do
have to make a reallyintentional choice when you buy
your next computer, it's like,what does my life look like for
the next couple of years? Am Igoing to be flying all around
town, or am I going to be righthere in my cozy little office?
Branda (36:01):
yeah,
Janice Cook (36:01):
yeah, but leading with how you want your day to
look like is really, reallysmart, because I think now that
you've designed one job foryourself, you realize I could be
a good boss to myself. I couldprobably put together a path to
whatever I do want my day tolook like
Branda (36:17):
exactly.
Janice Cook (36:18):
Thank you so much for taking the time to chat
today, I love chatting withother teacher business owners.
Where can people find you, toconnect with you after our chat
today?
Branda (36:28):
I hang out on Instagram at the relevant collective. I
also have a podcast with my cohost, Melanie. She's an OBM, and
it's chaos to conversions. Youcan find it Spotify, Apple
podcast, all that stuff. We talkabout marketing, email
marketing, launching, prettymuch all things marketing, on
there. So that's also a greatplace to hear from us more.
Janice Cook (36:50):
I love your podcast. It's definitely not
like, surface level information.
I have to be ready and in thezone to learn, but it feels like
I got to, like, sneak into alittle marketing class at a
university. That's how I alwaysfeel when I sit down for your
cozy podcast, like I cranked thedoor open and just like snuck in
the back row.
Branda (37:07):
I love hearing that, because that's was our whole
intention. We're like, we don'tI still want this to be another
podcast for beginners, like wewant it to be for people who are
a little more established to digdeeper. So that makes me feel
good.
Janice Cook (37:18):
That is how I feel.
I'm such a fan of the work thatyou and Melanie do, and I will
leave all your magic links inthe show notes, as we do over
here in podcast land. Thank youso much for chatting with me
today, Branda.
Branda (37:31):
Thanks so much for having me.
Janice Cook (37:34):
Thanks for making this podcast a part of your day.
Do you have a win-win teacherbusiness story you'd like to
share? head tocookfamilyresources.com/podcast
to find my guest application.
I'll also leave that link in theshow notes for you. See you in
the next episode.
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