April 18, 2025 • 26 mins
The silent suffering of new mothers experiencing mental health challenges during and after pregnancy remains one of healthcare's most overlooked crises. Nurse Becca, drawing from over a decade of labor and delivery experience, takes us deep into the troubling disparities that determine which mothers receive adequate mental health support and which are left to struggle alone.
Mental health issues during pregnancy and postpartum don't discriminate – they can affect any mother regardless of background or how many children she's had before. Yet the likelihood of receiving proper care varies dramatically based on factors like race, culture, and socioeconomic status. As Nurse Beka poignantly observes, "A lot of minorities don't have access to either see a therapist, be on medications... but it's just something that is not addressed in healthcare."
Cultural attitudes toward mental health create substantial barriers for many women. In some communities, stoicism is prized to the extent that expressing even physical pain is discouraged – making it nearly impossible to acknowledge mental health struggles. When new mothers hear dismissive responses like "stand up, you got to be stronger than that," they learn to silence their suffering rather than seek help.
Perhaps most disturbing are the racial disparities in maternal care. Nurse Becca shares firsthand observations of patients with identical symptoms receiving dramatically different treatment based solely on race. Black women are more likely to have their pain dismissed, their concerns minimized, and their mental health struggles overlooked – contributing to significantly higher rates of untreated postpartum depression.
The transition to motherhood represents a profound life change that many women aren't adequately prepared for. The conversation explores how the shift from pregnancy (when everyone focuses on the mother) to postpartum (when attention diverts entirely to the baby) can trigger feelings of insignificance and isolation. When combined with sleep deprivation, physical recovery, and often limited support, these factors create perfect conditions for mental health crises.
Join us for this crucial conversation about motherhood's hidden struggles and what must change to ensure all mothers receive the compassionate mental healthcare they deserve. Your understanding could be the first step toward supporting a new mother in your life who might be suffering in silence.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone, I'm Dr Beatrice Ippolit and this is
your World.
Hello everyone, today we havethe privilege to have with us
(00:20):
Nurse Beka.
Yes, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
doing today I'm good.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
It's a pleasure.
The pleasure is all mine,darling.
Oh, thank you.
I was a commute.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
The commute was not bad, I'm, you know, on one
gallon, so this is nice, this isa nice little drive.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Okay, and the good thing is not raining today.
So the sun is out, and it'sactually a little warmer too,
yeah, compared to a few days,you know, I must say yes, I
didn't have to pull up my scarftoday, so that was good.
Okay, that's wonderful.
So tell us a little bit aboutyou before we even get into the
subject that we're going to talktoday.
(01:00):
Sure, no problem.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
So I'm Nurse Becca.
I have been a nurse for over 10years.
I started out as an LPN andwhile I was working night shift
I went back to school, I got myBSN as an RN and I work in a
hospital now.
I started out in the hospitalin heart failure, which was
(01:23):
pretty tough, but it made me.
You know who I am.
I always believed that yourexperiences shape you to who you
are, and now I'm currently inlabor and delivery.
I have a podcast myself thenurse aspect, but that's what
I'm doing, right now.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
I watched so many episodes of that podcast.
It's very impressive.
Congratulations, thank you somuch and I'm so proud of of that
podcast.
It's very impressiveCongratulations.
Thank you so much and I'm soproud of you.
Thank you and you know onething that I must tell everybody
.
I remember when I was startingwith this podcast.
Oh, nurse Baker was on it.
Everything that she knows shewill tell me.
I was really grateful to that Ilove sharing information.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I don't like to hold people back.
I always feel like what's foryou will always be for you.
You don't ever have to fightwith someone or not share
information in the hopes thatthey're going to steal what you
have.
Whatever's supposed to be meantfor you is going to be meant
for you, so I always like toshare information.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Amen to that sister, and then I hope that you will
have an opportunity to tellpeople exactly how to watch your
podcast, of course, I willshare and how to subscribe.
Not a problem, thank you, and Iknow today is how you want to
talk about disparity in mentalhealth during pregnancy and
postpartum, why this topic isimportant to you.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
This topic is so important.
So my experience as a labor anddelivery nurse I see so many
patients on a daily basis.
I see patients in triage, whichis like our emergency room.
I have patients in labor anddelivery.
There's patients initialrecovery period and there's so
many patients that come in thathave either history of anxiety
(03:01):
or undiagnosed history ofanxiety, which can increase
their chances of havingpostpartum depression.
Especially in the undiagnosed,it's not addressed at all and so
a lot of times people havethoughts about harming their
baby, harming themselves.
Am I a good mom?
And it's first time moms,people who've had 10 kids it can
happen at any time.
(03:22):
People who've had 10 kids itcan happen at any time.
What I find is that a lot ofminorities for sure don't have
the access to either see atherapist, be on medications,
and so there's a big disparitythere.
But I also think that a lot ofit is not just minorities.
It could be Caucasian, anybodycan fall victim to it, but it's
(03:45):
just something that is notaddressed in healthcare.
People look down on it socially, culturally, you know, maybe
not even accepted for you toeven talk about your issues.
For example, the Asiancommunity are very stoic.
They don't really even showpain.
It's almost looked frowned uponfor them to even show pain.
(04:07):
So if you can't even show pain,how can you even express that?
You having thoughts that maybeI'm not a good mom, nobody cares
about me?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
But do you believe that that can be part of the
culture too?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
For sure for sure's it's, it's cultural, but it grow
in.
In nursing school they actuallytell you that asian culture are
very stoic so you have to do alittle bit more to assess their
pain.
They're not going to write out,say I'm in pain, even if I'm
offering.
You know we have an epidural,you don't have to, um, you know,
be in pain.
They actually would rather takethe pink is culturally that's
what is accepted for them,whereas, um, someone of the
(04:45):
latin community.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
If you go and show or play yourself as somebody who
is in pain, that can make youlook weak right, exactly,
exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So you know those communities do have, I feel,
like, a higher incidence ofhaving a disparity in having
anxiety, post postpartumdepression and just not even
being able to get the help.
I always make a point to talkto my patients and let them know
about postpartum depression.
It's very real that you can.
(05:17):
It's okay to reach out tosomeone.
I think that you know, maybeeven 10, 15 years ago was not as
accepted, whereas now it's morewidely accepted for you to seek
therapy, for you to be onmedication.
A lot of times I tell mypatients if you can't discuss it
with your family member becausemaybe it's not culturally
accepted that there's a wideworld of community that's
(05:41):
available TikTok, social media,there's a lot of things.
There's Facebook group from newmoms.
You know where people can go toand feel comfortable in sharing
their experiences when maybethey're not comfortable with
sharing their experiences athome.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
And one thing with postpartum depression during the
first few weeks after givingbirth you may not experience any
symptoms, but that can comefurther down even after six
months, even after three months.
So it's very important toreally consider it is I.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I will say that I tell my patients all the time
that you know, when in pregnancyeverybody's so concerned about
the belly, everybody's likegiving you their thoughts, want
to touch your belly andeverything, so the focus is on
you right.
Then baby comes and, like youknow now people are coming over
and they almost like push youout the way to, you know, to see
the baby.
So everybody's more soconcerned about the baby now,
(06:33):
which is understandable.
But internally that does dosomething.
Also to a woman that maybelet's say you don't have, um,
that you're not confident in whoyou are as a as a person.
Don't have that.
You're not confident in who youare as a person.
Or maybe you have a pushymother-in-law who wants to take
over everything.
They're doing everything in thehouse, changing the way that
you know that you have thingsset up.
(06:54):
You'd feel less important.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
All of those things can lead to.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It could be your own mother.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Knowing that you know what.
She knows it all.
Yes, Because she gave birth tofive, seven kids, so she thinks
that she's a master into youknow, raising or taking care of
babies, so now putting you, youknow, like behind and take over
of everything.
So, I've seen few cases likethat and I really understand
(07:20):
where you're coming from.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, where you're coming from.
I will also say too that evenwith the older school providers
don't really accept or eventreat mental health.
A lot of times you know youmight be on a medication or
maybe you have a therapist thatdid put you on some sort of
medication and you are seekingtreatment and now you're going
back to your OB provider andyou're maybe doing your six week
checkup or something like that,and your OB will tell you if
you're on this medication I'mnot going to see you.
A lot of old school providersare like that.
(07:56):
So it's not.
There's a disparity even there,because you could be seeking
the help and Now you're goingback to your doctor for a
regular checkup and becauseyou're on this particular
medication, they won't see you.
So now it kind of puts you at afurther disadvantage, if you
will, or exacerbate the issuethat you know of postpartum
(08:16):
depression.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
The medication that you say.
So if you are on thatmedication, it's mental
health-related medication,Mental health-related medication
.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
It's mental health related medication, mental
health related medication andyou know, I I think that a lot
of times with um, certain obproviders like I said, old
school, so people who've beenworking, you know, 40, 50 years,
I could probably deliver a babywith their eyes closed, you
know, may not recognize oraccept the mental health aspect
of uh, of postpartum depression,and may not want to seek to
(08:48):
treat you.
So it's almost as if I'm goingto continue to go to my doctor
that maybe I've been going tosince.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I was 16.
Do you think that it's becausethey don't understand, or?
They don't believe in theseriousness of the issue?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah, I think so, and it could be.
It could be a combination ofyou know and again it's you know
.
If you think about growing upthings and you know in their
time it's not accepted, right.
Like you can have a mom thatcomes in and they're saying like
, oh, you're being hysterical,you can have real pain, but
you're being hysterical andthat's how it was back in the
(09:21):
day, Whereas nowadays we'regoing to take a look and further
assess to see what's going on.
This is not hysteria.
This could be masking itself assomething else or you just need
a further diagnosis.
But a long time ago it wasn'tlike that.
So when you have people thatfor sure probably had some sort
(09:43):
of postpartum depression,anxiety, misdiagnosed mental
concern that is related, thatmaybe came up after pregnancy or
maybe just undiagnosed, and itcame out during pregnancy or
afterwards, they don't recognizeit and so it wasn't recognized,
then it's still kind of thesame way and a lot of times
people are hard to change.
You know, change is hard toaccept in general and even comes
(10:03):
down to even your provider, sothat can also present itself as
an issue.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
You know one thing that I've experienced, so I've
seen you know, many women wereeager to have children and they
wanted to have children.
They waited for so long to havechildren and many of them have
even walked through some medicalprocess to get pregnant.
But after giving birth, theamount of change that little
baby bring into their lives kindof shift everything.
(10:33):
So some women will, just bylooking at the body, not being
the same, you know, that can bea big trigger for them to
experience, you know, somemental health issues.
Some people it may be like youknow the baby crying for
whatever reason all night.
(10:54):
For some it may be like youknow, hey, now it's like I don't
have a life anymore Becausebefore being pregnant there was
no preparation.
After you give birth to a childyou basically won't have a life
for your own self.
Yes, it's over, and everythingthat you're going to do in life,
(11:15):
you know going to have to bearound that child.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yes, and many of them were not prepped.
You know for that, I think,that a lot of times they may
have not been prepped, or maybeyou know, they heard it and they
know this, but actuallyexperiencing it is totally,
totally different.
You know, a lot of times, likeI think, that people do have,
(11:41):
you know, undiagnosed anxiety.
Everybody has some form ofanxiety in general's life.
That, yes, that's life, but it'salso how are you dealing with
with that too?
Are you dealing with itappropriately?
Some people go to the gym andyou know, take out the anxiety
in the gym, right, it's ahealthy way.
Um, you release endorphins andyou know, so it it helps you in
(12:02):
in that, in that sense, in termsof how you're treating your
anxiety and you have to knowwhen there is something strange
going on in your body.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Right, because your body is your body.
You know your body, right?
If I woke up this morning orfor the entire week I've been
feeling a certain way, I mustknow that you know what.
I'm not fooling myself.
Something is not right.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
So it's like whatever that is bothering me or that
may bring a lot of stress intomy life or anxiety.
So it's like you said, I maychoose to go to the gym, some
people may choose to listen togospel music Some people, or any
type of music that can helpthem release.
You know that anxiety or thatstress, or do something, but you
(12:49):
have to know your body right tounderstand when something is
not right right, and so there'sto me.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
I think there's two parts to what you said.
I think one, yes, like like Iwas saying, in terms of how you
deal with your anxiety.
Um, if you deal with itappropriately or inappropriately
.
For example, if you havesomeone that is like they decide
to eat and end up overeatingand that causes an issue in
terms of now I can't lose weight, I have non-baby body
(13:17):
dysmorphia Look what this babydid to me and that can further
exacerbate you.
They say studies have shownthat women with a higher body
mass index of BMI are more proneto experiencing postpartum
depression.
The other thing is, too, is fromwhat you were saying is that it
is actually being able torecognize that I have an issue.
(13:39):
You don't have the opportunityto express to your family and
and feeling open to um, you know, that may further put you into
a higher incidence of seeing umpostpartum depression.
For example, haitian culture isnot accepted.
Maybe for you to say whateveryou want you know to an older,
(14:01):
an older adult, right, the olderadult is the one that knows
best.
So if you're experiencingsomething you know, they may
just say you know, stand up, yougot to be stronger than that
and that's it.
That's the end of theconversation.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
There's no conversation after that right,
oh, you just had a baby.
That's what mothers have, andthat's it.
Yeah, and that's it, that's itright so that's, that's how.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
That's how that goes, but now I'm maybe not
internally dealing withsomething that you know is not
addressed, and now I could be.
Now, of course, I still havethe lack of sleep.
Maybe I don't have the help,maybe if you're a single mom, or
maybe it's just you and your,your partner, and that's it and
it's.
They say.
It takes a village right andthe baby could be colicky
(14:41):
breastfeeding.
All these things take up time,and now you're not properly
taking care of yourself, whichis expected to a certain degree,
but now I also don't, don'thave an outlet, and so those
things are all going to increasethe chances of you experiencing
postpartum depression.
I think part of the issue is isdefinitely recognizing that
(15:01):
there's something wrong.
This is not normal.
There's a fine line this butthis is not normal.
And being able fine line thisis, but this is not normal.
And being able to communicatewith someone that's going to
accept that you know what maybeyou do need, you do need help,
and it could just start bytalking to someone that you
trust, which a lot of times yourecommend a therapist right, it
could be your, your pastor,whoever but part of it is being
(15:24):
able to have that opencommunication and if you need
something like medication, torecognize that it's okay for you
to have the medication but notbe judged by.
I need that.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I do need the medication yeah, so it's like
you know, basically you'retelling me, so it's important
for my feeling to beacknowledged.
Correct yes, you know andwhenever that I feel that I need
professional help and I shouldnot be afraid or ashamed to seek
for that help, because at thismoment it's needed.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Right, totally correct.
Yes, yeah, but postpartumdepression I think that it is
something that affects everycommunity and it's not just, I
don't think that it is just, um,you know, african-american.
I don't think it's just Asian.
I think there's a higherincidence because I also think
that part of the problem is, too, is your care.
(16:18):
You know there is a higherincidence of African-American
people not receiving theappropriate care during
pregnancy.
How can we even be able torecognize that there may be an
issue here?
Speaker 1 (16:29):
you know, while you're mentioning that, so I was
looking at the racial, ethnicdiscrimination you know, or
disparity among you know, blackwomen more likely, they are more
prone to experience postpartumdepression due to racisms.
Yes, that's true, you know, anduh, socioeconomic factors and
(16:53):
lack of access to healthcarecorrect, compared to white women
that's true.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
yeah, um, in the hospital I I've seen so many
times where we can have two ofthe same patients right, one
black, one white, okay, and theyhave literally the same exact
symptoms.
But, for example, you could saythat the white person that's
coming in that is maybe onecentimeter dilated, that is
(17:21):
having severe pain, will maybeget an epidural first or offered
an epidural first, whereassomeone that is, you know, the
same exam, that's black.
All we did is change the colorof their skin and it's not that
bad.
You can keep going, maybe, youknow, and so even just that
little, but why did you offer tothis person and not not to me?
(17:41):
You know, um, a lot of timestoo, is that you might have, uh,
a black patient that's cominginto a predominantly white
hospital and so you likely aregetting a predominantly white
nurse who may not, you know, beracist, but has you know,
because patients should you know?
Speaker 1 (18:01):
if I were to be, a nurse, a doctor or any health
care provider.
My main priority should havebeen my patient care.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Right, right, and sometimes I think that a lot of
people may not a lot ofproviders, who again may not
identify or see themselves asracist and maybe they don't even
really mean it in that sense,but will have those things.
But again, you would have to beBlack or a minority to even
understand that what you'redoing is not, is not, correct.
(18:39):
You don't understand how whatyou're doing makes me feel this
way and you know, if a minorityunderstands oppression versus
the majority, the majority isnot going to understand the
oppression you know it isunfortunate and though you know
I don't work in a hospitalsetting, but I think I've
(18:59):
experienced, you know, likesomething slightly similar to
what you just mentioned.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
I remember one time at work, so it was like you know
, they hire above, alwaysconduct the meeting, and they
always, the minute that you gotthere, you see the lineup, you
know not to walk through, butthat day it was me and a white
lady who were walking.
We were probably two to fourfeet apart and I saw the cool
(19:30):
lineup and the white person justwalked through, no regard, and
nobody said regard and nobody.
I thought that she got to getaway because she was not stopped
.
I was right behind her and itwas a black person among that
group who just said ma'am, stop.
(19:51):
And I'm like we're going tohave a big issue today because
I'm going to keep on working.
I'm like what's going on?
What did just happen?
Yeah, it was at that moment.
One of them said I watch, you,let that white person walk
through and none of you stopthat person.
(20:13):
Yeah, and now, when the blacksister is about and you are men,
keep on going.
I said I was not gonna stop.
So it's to tell you howsometimes we are wired to allow
certain things to happen, youknow, with this group and
prevent it from happening toanother group, and I can see how
(20:36):
that same behavior or mentalityis going on even when it's come
to provide people with bestquality of care.
It is unfortunate, but it's areality of life.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, that's so true, so true.
So I think I think part of thein terms of healthcare just this
is a little, I guess, off topic, but in terms of healthcare, I
think it's so important to haverepresentation.
You know it's so funny how,like now, with everything
happening with DEI and you knowin today's world, how that can,
you know, be impacted.
(21:09):
But it does make a differencein having seeing someone of your
own kind take care of you,right, and not to say that, you
know there can be a littleracism even in that you could
have a black provider, that thatis racist towards you, you know
, but I do think that it's, Iwould say, maybe less likely,
(21:32):
you know.
So I totally never have aproblem to show up for my, for
my own patients, and and justbeing that I don't treat anybody
any any different, whether youcould be black, blue, purple, it
doesn't matter how you are.
I'm still going to talk to youthis the same way, um, but it's
not everybody your priority ismy patient.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
I don't care what you look like, it doesn't matter,
right, you know so you don't goby way sexual orientation,
religion or financial.
When I have a client comes tome, the first thing is like, hey
, I see all my clients as humanbeings.
That's what you are.
You are a human being and I'mgoing to treat you based on your
need.
So if your need, it's like hey,you have a wound that needs to
(22:16):
be taken care of.
So how the heck?
I have to look at whether thatknow you?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
white, blue, brown or yellow, how relevant it is
right to what you're dealingwith at this moment it's so true
, but some people can't see pasttheir skin deep, you know.
Some people can't see past that,unfortunately, and it ties into
it ties into so many otherthings, like you know, and just
receiving health care, receivingthe appropriate health care,
pain wise, mental health,especially in the black
(22:46):
communities.
There's so many undiagnosedmental conditions, you know.
And then you're addingpregnancy on top of it, you know
, so that it just keeps ongetting further and further back
, where someone who is born inthe right skin color will have
different treatment, likely justbecause maybe they had access
to the healthcare that AfricanAmerican people don't have
(23:09):
access to.
Maybe they're treateddifferently because they're
taking more seriously in termsof whatever they're experiencing
, and even having someone beingable to listen and communicate
with you, in terms ofunderstanding that I am having
an issue and I do need to seek,I need help, as opposed to just
(23:30):
blowing them off and saying it'snothing, you'll get over it.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Ah, yeah, yeah.
So it's a big issue.
It is.
It is a big issue andunfortunately it seems not to be
addressed.
You know, appropriately.
Yes, because oftentimes so whatpeople see is like oh, that
woman is pregnant.
So it's like it's just a joyfor the moment.
This person is going to bring abrand new child into the world.
Everybody seems to be happy,but at the end of the day, that
(23:57):
mother may be dying inside.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yes, so true.
Again, it just comes down tohow open are you to be able to
discuss what you're goingthrough.
How is it going to be received?
You know, the thing is now welisten and we don't judge.
Like that's a big like saying,nowadays, right, we listen and
(24:20):
we don't judge, like that's abig like saying, nowadays, right
, we listen and we don't judge.
But are you listening and areyou judging?
Because those are the twothings I feel like people have a
problem with.
You know, I think that evenmyself, before I was a nurse, or
maybe even my early stages, Iwould like someone would say
something and I'm like, howcould you say that?
But you really don't even knowwhat the person is going through
(24:43):
, what the context of whatthey're going through.
How are they?
How are they living?
You know you could have apartner that's beating you every
day and you can't say anything.
You know something like that.
Are you living in a conditionwhere you're in a stable home?
You know all of those thingscan impact your mental health.
You know, as I'm sure you would.
You know that.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
You know the environment that you're in and
impacts your mental health and,according to research, you even
have murderers who kill thebabies after giving birth.
Yes, because they were goingthrough that process.
Yeah, babies were, they werecrying and the mother could not
take it, so it was too much.
(25:21):
They didn't know how to dealwith that and, before they even
know it, through the window,they just threw that baby out.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, and it's so unfortunate because every
hospital, or most hospitals, aresafe havens.
You can literally just go tothe hospital and just drop off
your baby, no questions asked,or a fire station.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
You know something like that, but I think a lot of
times, sometimes you don't evenknow what's going on, and that's
that releases.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, that relates to the mental hustle.
This is, this is part ofpostpartum depression, which is
why it can exacerbate itselfinto something that's so much
more greater, whereas if theissue was addressed, it could
have been.
It could have been prevented.
A life could have been saved,yeah.
Hello everyone, I'm Dr Beatrice Ippolit and this is
your World.
Hello everyone, today we havethe privilege to have with us
(00:20):
Nurse Beka.
Yes, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
doing today I'm good.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
It's a pleasure.
The pleasure is all mine,darling.
Oh, thank you.
I was a commute.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
The commute was not bad, I'm, you know, on one
gallon, so this is nice, this isa nice little drive.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Okay, and the good thing is not raining today.
So the sun is out, and it'sactually a little warmer too,
yeah, compared to a few days,you know, I must say yes, I
didn't have to pull up my scarftoday, so that was good.
Okay, that's wonderful.
So tell us a little bit aboutyou before we even get into the
subject that we're going to talktoday.
(01:00):
Sure, no problem.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
So I'm Nurse Becca.
I have been a nurse for over 10years.
I started out as an LPN andwhile I was working night shift
I went back to school, I got myBSN as an RN and I work in a
hospital now.
I started out in the hospitalin heart failure, which was
(01:23):
pretty tough, but it made me.
You know who I am.
I always believed that yourexperiences shape you to who you
are, and now I'm currently inlabor and delivery.
I have a podcast myself thenurse aspect, but that's what
I'm doing, right now.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
I watched so many episodes of that podcast.
It's very impressive.
Congratulations, thank you somuch and I'm so proud of of that
podcast.
It's very impressiveCongratulations.
Thank you so much and I'm soproud of you.
Thank you and you know onething that I must tell everybody
.
I remember when I was startingwith this podcast.
Oh, nurse Baker was on it.
Everything that she knows shewill tell me.
I was really grateful to that Ilove sharing information.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I don't like to hold people back.
I always feel like what's foryou will always be for you.
You don't ever have to fightwith someone or not share
information in the hopes thatthey're going to steal what you
have.
Whatever's supposed to be meantfor you is going to be meant
for you, so I always like toshare information.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Amen to that sister, and then I hope that you will
have an opportunity to tellpeople exactly how to watch your
podcast, of course, I willshare and how to subscribe.
Not a problem, thank you, and Iknow today is how you want to
talk about disparity in mentalhealth during pregnancy and
postpartum, why this topic isimportant to you.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
This topic is so important.
So my experience as a labor anddelivery nurse I see so many
patients on a daily basis.
I see patients in triage, whichis like our emergency room.
I have patients in labor anddelivery.
There's patients initialrecovery period and there's so
many patients that come in thathave either history of anxiety
(03:01):
or undiagnosed history ofanxiety, which can increase
their chances of havingpostpartum depression.
Especially in the undiagnosed,it's not addressed at all and so
a lot of times people havethoughts about harming their
baby, harming themselves.
Am I a good mom?
And it's first time moms,people who've had 10 kids it can
happen at any time.
(03:22):
People who've had 10 kids itcan happen at any time.
What I find is that a lot ofminorities for sure don't have
the access to either see atherapist, be on medications,
and so there's a big disparitythere.
But I also think that a lot ofit is not just minorities.
It could be Caucasian, anybodycan fall victim to it, but it's
(03:45):
just something that is notaddressed in healthcare.
People look down on it socially, culturally, you know, maybe
not even accepted for you toeven talk about your issues.
For example, the Asiancommunity are very stoic.
They don't really even showpain.
It's almost looked frowned uponfor them to even show pain.
(04:07):
So if you can't even show pain,how can you even express that?
You having thoughts that maybeI'm not a good mom, nobody cares
about me?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
But do you believe that that can be part of the
culture too?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
For sure for sure's it's, it's cultural, but it grow
in.
In nursing school they actuallytell you that asian culture are
very stoic so you have to do alittle bit more to assess their
pain.
They're not going to write out,say I'm in pain, even if I'm
offering.
You know we have an epidural,you don't have to, um, you know,
be in pain.
They actually would rather takethe pink is culturally that's
what is accepted for them,whereas, um, someone of the
(04:45):
latin community.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
If you go and show or play yourself as somebody who
is in pain, that can make youlook weak right, exactly,
exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So you know those communities do have, I feel,
like, a higher incidence ofhaving a disparity in having
anxiety, post postpartumdepression and just not even
being able to get the help.
I always make a point to talkto my patients and let them know
about postpartum depression.
It's very real that you can.
(05:17):
It's okay to reach out tosomeone.
I think that you know, maybeeven 10, 15 years ago was not as
accepted, whereas now it's morewidely accepted for you to seek
therapy, for you to be onmedication.
A lot of times I tell mypatients if you can't discuss it
with your family member becausemaybe it's not culturally
accepted that there's a wideworld of community that's
(05:41):
available TikTok, social media,there's a lot of things.
There's Facebook group from newmoms.
You know where people can go toand feel comfortable in sharing
their experiences when maybethey're not comfortable with
sharing their experiences athome.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
And one thing with postpartum depression during the
first few weeks after givingbirth you may not experience any
symptoms, but that can comefurther down even after six
months, even after three months.
So it's very important toreally consider it is I.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I will say that I tell my patients all the time
that you know, when in pregnancyeverybody's so concerned about
the belly, everybody's likegiving you their thoughts, want
to touch your belly andeverything, so the focus is on
you right.
Then baby comes and, like youknow now people are coming over
and they almost like push youout the way to, you know, to see
the baby.
So everybody's more soconcerned about the baby now,
(06:33):
which is understandable.
But internally that does dosomething.
Also to a woman that maybelet's say you don't have, um,
that you're not confident in whoyou are as a as a person.
Don't have that.
You're not confident in who youare as a person.
Or maybe you have a pushymother-in-law who wants to take
over everything.
They're doing everything in thehouse, changing the way that
you know that you have thingsset up.
(06:54):
You'd feel less important.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
All of those things can lead to.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It could be your own mother.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Knowing that you know what.
She knows it all.
Yes, Because she gave birth tofive, seven kids, so she thinks
that she's a master into youknow, raising or taking care of
babies, so now putting you, youknow, like behind and take over
of everything.
So, I've seen few cases likethat and I really understand
(07:20):
where you're coming from.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, where you're coming from.
I will also say too that evenwith the older school providers
don't really accept or eventreat mental health.
A lot of times you know youmight be on a medication or
maybe you have a therapist thatdid put you on some sort of
medication and you are seekingtreatment and now you're going
back to your OB provider andyou're maybe doing your six week
checkup or something like that,and your OB will tell you if
you're on this medication I'mnot going to see you.
A lot of old school providersare like that.
(07:56):
So it's not.
There's a disparity even there,because you could be seeking
the help and Now you're goingback to your doctor for a
regular checkup and becauseyou're on this particular
medication, they won't see you.
So now it kind of puts you at afurther disadvantage, if you
will, or exacerbate the issuethat you know of postpartum
(08:16):
depression.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
The medication that you say.
So if you are on thatmedication, it's mental
health-related medication,Mental health-related medication
.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
It's mental health related medication, mental
health related medication andyou know, I I think that a lot
of times with um, certain obproviders like I said, old
school, so people who've beenworking, you know, 40, 50 years,
I could probably deliver a babywith their eyes closed, you
know, may not recognize oraccept the mental health aspect
of uh, of postpartum depression,and may not want to seek to
(08:48):
treat you.
So it's almost as if I'm goingto continue to go to my doctor
that maybe I've been going tosince.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I was 16.
Do you think that it's becausethey don't understand, or?
They don't believe in theseriousness of the issue?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah, I think so, and it could be.
It could be a combination ofyou know and again it's you know
.
If you think about growing upthings and you know in their
time it's not accepted, right.
Like you can have a mom thatcomes in and they're saying like
, oh, you're being hysterical,you can have real pain, but
you're being hysterical andthat's how it was back in the
(09:21):
day, Whereas nowadays we'regoing to take a look and further
assess to see what's going on.
This is not hysteria.
This could be masking itself assomething else or you just need
a further diagnosis.
But a long time ago it wasn'tlike that.
So when you have people thatfor sure probably had some sort
(09:43):
of postpartum depression,anxiety, misdiagnosed mental
concern that is related, thatmaybe came up after pregnancy or
maybe just undiagnosed, and itcame out during pregnancy or
afterwards, they don't recognizeit and so it wasn't recognized,
then it's still kind of thesame way and a lot of times
people are hard to change.
You know, change is hard toaccept in general and even comes
(10:03):
down to even your provider, sothat can also present itself as
an issue.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
You know one thing that I've experienced, so I've
seen you know, many women wereeager to have children and they
wanted to have children.
They waited for so long to havechildren and many of them have
even walked through some medicalprocess to get pregnant.
But after giving birth, theamount of change that little
baby bring into their lives kindof shift everything.
(10:33):
So some women will, just bylooking at the body, not being
the same, you know, that can bea big trigger for them to
experience, you know, somemental health issues.
Some people it may be like youknow the baby crying for
whatever reason all night.
(10:54):
For some it may be like youknow, hey, now it's like I don't
have a life anymore Becausebefore being pregnant there was
no preparation.
After you give birth to a childyou basically won't have a life
for your own self.
Yes, it's over, and everythingthat you're going to do in life,
(11:15):
you know going to have to bearound that child.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yes, and many of them were not prepped.
You know for that, I think,that a lot of times they may
have not been prepped, or maybeyou know, they heard it and they
know this, but actuallyexperiencing it is totally,
totally different.
You know, a lot of times, likeI think, that people do have,
(11:41):
you know, undiagnosed anxiety.
Everybody has some form ofanxiety in general's life.
That, yes, that's life, but it'salso how are you dealing with
with that too?
Are you dealing with itappropriately?
Some people go to the gym andyou know, take out the anxiety
in the gym, right, it's ahealthy way.
Um, you release endorphins andyou know, so it it helps you in
(12:02):
in that, in that sense, in termsof how you're treating your
anxiety and you have to knowwhen there is something strange
going on in your body.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Right, because your body is your body.
You know your body, right?
If I woke up this morning orfor the entire week I've been
feeling a certain way, I mustknow that you know what.
I'm not fooling myself.
Something is not right.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
So it's like whatever that is bothering me or that
may bring a lot of stress intomy life or anxiety.
So it's like you said, I maychoose to go to the gym, some
people may choose to listen togospel music Some people, or any
type of music that can helpthem release.
You know that anxiety or thatstress, or do something, but you
(12:49):
have to know your body right tounderstand when something is
not right right, and so there'sto me.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
I think there's two parts to what you said.
I think one, yes, like like Iwas saying, in terms of how you
deal with your anxiety.
Um, if you deal with itappropriately or inappropriately
.
For example, if you havesomeone that is like they decide
to eat and end up overeatingand that causes an issue in
terms of now I can't lose weight, I have non-baby body
(13:17):
dysmorphia Look what this babydid to me and that can further
exacerbate you.
They say studies have shownthat women with a higher body
mass index of BMI are more proneto experiencing postpartum
depression.
The other thing is, too, is fromwhat you were saying is that it
is actually being able torecognize that I have an issue.
(13:39):
You don't have the opportunityto express to your family and
and feeling open to um, you know, that may further put you into
a higher incidence of seeing umpostpartum depression.
For example, haitian culture isnot accepted.
Maybe for you to say whateveryou want you know to an older,
(14:01):
an older adult, right, the olderadult is the one that knows
best.
So if you're experiencingsomething you know, they may
just say you know, stand up, yougot to be stronger than that
and that's it.
That's the end of theconversation.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
There's no conversation after that right,
oh, you just had a baby.
That's what mothers have, andthat's it.
Yeah, and that's it, that's itright so that's, that's how.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
That's how that goes, but now I'm maybe not
internally dealing withsomething that you know is not
addressed, and now I could be.
Now, of course, I still havethe lack of sleep.
Maybe I don't have the help,maybe if you're a single mom, or
maybe it's just you and your,your partner, and that's it and
it's.
They say.
It takes a village right andthe baby could be colicky
(14:41):
breastfeeding.
All these things take up time,and now you're not properly
taking care of yourself, whichis expected to a certain degree,
but now I also don't, don'thave an outlet, and so those
things are all going to increasethe chances of you experiencing
postpartum depression.
I think part of the issue is isdefinitely recognizing that
(15:01):
there's something wrong.
This is not normal.
There's a fine line this butthis is not normal.
And being able fine line thisis, but this is not normal.
And being able to communicatewith someone that's going to
accept that you know what maybeyou do need, you do need help,
and it could just start bytalking to someone that you
trust, which a lot of times yourecommend a therapist right, it
could be your, your pastor,whoever but part of it is being
(15:24):
able to have that opencommunication and if you need
something like medication, torecognize that it's okay for you
to have the medication but notbe judged by.
I need that.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I do need the medication yeah, so it's like
you know, basically you'retelling me, so it's important
for my feeling to beacknowledged.
Correct yes, you know andwhenever that I feel that I need
professional help and I shouldnot be afraid or ashamed to seek
for that help, because at thismoment it's needed.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Right, totally correct.
Yes, yeah, but postpartumdepression I think that it is
something that affects everycommunity and it's not just, I
don't think that it is just, um,you know, african-american.
I don't think it's just Asian.
I think there's a higherincidence because I also think
that part of the problem is, too, is your care.
(16:18):
You know there is a higherincidence of African-American
people not receiving theappropriate care during
pregnancy.
How can we even be able torecognize that there may be an
issue here?
Speaker 1 (16:29):
you know, while you're mentioning that, so I was
looking at the racial, ethnicdiscrimination you know, or
disparity among you know, blackwomen more likely, they are more
prone to experience postpartumdepression due to racisms.
Yes, that's true, you know, anduh, socioeconomic factors and
(16:53):
lack of access to healthcarecorrect, compared to white women
that's true.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
yeah, um, in the hospital I I've seen so many
times where we can have two ofthe same patients right, one
black, one white, okay, and theyhave literally the same exact
symptoms.
But, for example, you could saythat the white person that's
coming in that is maybe onecentimeter dilated, that is
(17:21):
having severe pain, will maybeget an epidural first or offered
an epidural first, whereassomeone that is, you know, the
same exam, that's black.
All we did is change the colorof their skin and it's not that
bad.
You can keep going, maybe, youknow, and so even just that
little, but why did you offer tothis person and not not to me?
(17:41):
You know, um, a lot of timestoo, is that you might have, uh,
a black patient that's cominginto a predominantly white
hospital and so you likely aregetting a predominantly white
nurse who may not, you know, beracist, but has you know,
because patients should you know?
Speaker 1 (18:01):
if I were to be, a nurse, a doctor or any health
care provider.
My main priority should havebeen my patient care.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Right, right, and sometimes I think that a lot of
people may not a lot ofproviders, who again may not
identify or see themselves asracist and maybe they don't even
really mean it in that sense,but will have those things.
But again, you would have to beBlack or a minority to even
understand that what you'redoing is not, is not, correct.
(18:39):
You don't understand how whatyou're doing makes me feel this
way and you know, if a minorityunderstands oppression versus
the majority, the majority isnot going to understand the
oppression you know it isunfortunate and though you know
I don't work in a hospitalsetting, but I think I've
(18:59):
experienced, you know, likesomething slightly similar to
what you just mentioned.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
I remember one time at work, so it was like you know
, they hire above, alwaysconduct the meeting, and they
always, the minute that you gotthere, you see the lineup, you
know not to walk through, butthat day it was me and a white
lady who were walking.
We were probably two to fourfeet apart and I saw the cool
(19:30):
lineup and the white person justwalked through, no regard, and
nobody said regard and nobody.
I thought that she got to getaway because she was not stopped
.
I was right behind her and itwas a black person among that
group who just said ma'am, stop.
(19:51):
And I'm like we're going tohave a big issue today because
I'm going to keep on working.
I'm like what's going on?
What did just happen?
Yeah, it was at that moment.
One of them said I watch, you,let that white person walk
through and none of you stopthat person.
(20:13):
Yeah, and now, when the blacksister is about and you are men,
keep on going.
I said I was not gonna stop.
So it's to tell you howsometimes we are wired to allow
certain things to happen, youknow, with this group and
prevent it from happening toanother group, and I can see how
(20:36):
that same behavior or mentalityis going on even when it's come
to provide people with bestquality of care.
It is unfortunate, but it's areality of life.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, that's so true, so true.
So I think I think part of thein terms of healthcare just this
is a little, I guess, off topic, but in terms of healthcare, I
think it's so important to haverepresentation.
You know it's so funny how,like now, with everything
happening with DEI and you knowin today's world, how that can,
you know, be impacted.
(21:09):
But it does make a differencein having seeing someone of your
own kind take care of you,right, and not to say that, you
know there can be a littleracism even in that you could
have a black provider, that thatis racist towards you, you know
, but I do think that it's, Iwould say, maybe less likely,
(21:32):
you know.
So I totally never have aproblem to show up for my, for
my own patients, and and justbeing that I don't treat anybody
any any different, whether youcould be black, blue, purple, it
doesn't matter how you are.
I'm still going to talk to youthis the same way, um, but it's
not everybody your priority ismy patient.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
I don't care what you look like, it doesn't matter,
right, you know so you don't goby way sexual orientation,
religion or financial.
When I have a client comes tome, the first thing is like, hey
, I see all my clients as humanbeings.
That's what you are.
You are a human being and I'mgoing to treat you based on your
need.
So if your need, it's like hey,you have a wound that needs to
(22:16):
be taken care of.
So how the heck?
I have to look at whether thatknow you?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
white, blue, brown or yellow, how relevant it is
right to what you're dealingwith at this moment it's so true
, but some people can't see pasttheir skin deep, you know.
Some people can't see past that,unfortunately, and it ties into
it ties into so many otherthings, like you know, and just
receiving health care, receivingthe appropriate health care,
pain wise, mental health,especially in the black
(22:46):
communities.
There's so many undiagnosedmental conditions, you know.
And then you're addingpregnancy on top of it, you know
, so that it just keeps ongetting further and further back
, where someone who is born inthe right skin color will have
different treatment, likely justbecause maybe they had access
to the healthcare that AfricanAmerican people don't have
(23:09):
access to.
Maybe they're treateddifferently because they're
taking more seriously in termsof whatever they're experiencing
, and even having someone beingable to listen and communicate
with you, in terms ofunderstanding that I am having
an issue and I do need to seek,I need help, as opposed to just
(23:30):
blowing them off and saying it'snothing, you'll get over it.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Ah, yeah, yeah.
So it's a big issue.
It is.
It is a big issue andunfortunately it seems not to be
addressed.
You know, appropriately.
Yes, because oftentimes so whatpeople see is like oh, that
woman is pregnant.
So it's like it's just a joyfor the moment.
This person is going to bring abrand new child into the world.
Everybody seems to be happy,but at the end of the day, that
(23:57):
mother may be dying inside.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yes, so true.
Again, it just comes down tohow open are you to be able to
discuss what you're goingthrough.
How is it going to be received?
You know, the thing is now welisten and we don't judge.
Like that's a big like saying,nowadays, right, we listen and
(24:20):
we don't judge, like that's abig like saying, nowadays, right
, we listen and we don't judge.
But are you listening and areyou judging?
Because those are the twothings I feel like people have a
problem with.
You know, I think that evenmyself, before I was a nurse, or
maybe even my early stages, Iwould like someone would say
something and I'm like, howcould you say that?
But you really don't even knowwhat the person is going through
(24:43):
, what the context of whatthey're going through.
How are they?
How are they living?
You know you could have apartner that's beating you every
day and you can't say anything.
You know something like that.
Are you living in a conditionwhere you're in a stable home?
You know all of those thingscan impact your mental health.
You know, as I'm sure you would.
You know that.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
You know the environment that you're in and
impacts your mental health and,according to research, you even
have murderers who kill thebabies after giving birth.
Yes, because they were goingthrough that process.
Yeah, babies were, they werecrying and the mother could not
take it, so it was too much.
(25:21):
They didn't know how to dealwith that and, before they even
know it, through the window,they just threw that baby out.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, and it's so unfortunate because every
hospital, or most hospitals, aresafe havens.
You can literally just go tothe hospital and just drop off
your baby, no questions asked,or a fire station.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
You know something like that, but I think a lot of
times, sometimes you don't evenknow what's going on, and that's
that releases.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, that relates to the mental hustle.
This is, this is part ofpostpartum depression, which is
why it can exacerbate itselfinto something that's so much
more greater, whereas if theissue was addressed, it could
have been.
It could have been prevented.
A life could have been saved,yeah.
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