July 11, 2025 • 19 mins
The enigmatic world of narcissistic personality disorder unfolds through a thoughtful exploration of what truly separates pathological self-focus from healthy confidence. At the heart of narcissism lies not excessive self-love, but rather a profound redirection of energy inward that prevents genuine connection with others. This psychological phenomenon manifests through grandiosity and a striking absence of empathy that distorts relationships into transactional exchanges.
Andreau Charles guides us through the developmental roots of narcissistic tendencies, revealing how early experiences of abandonment and shame create protective psychological mechanisms that ultimately harm the individual. Through a moving case study of a patient who dissociated from physical differences after childhood ridicule, we witness the gentle therapeutic process of reintegrating disowned parts of the self—a journey requiring both courage and mourning. This work exemplifies how healing from narcissistic patterns demands facing vulnerability rather than avoiding it.
For those working in fields that seem to reward narcissistic traits—politics, marketing, leadership positions—Andreau Charles offers a crucial distinction: wearing the "clothing" of grandiosity for specific purposes differs fundamentally from identifying with it completely. True psychological health allows us to step in and out of roles without sacrificing our capacity for meaningful connection. The path forward lies in embracing what depth psychology calls "good enoughness"—accepting imperfections in ourselves and others while cultivating relationships based on respect rather than exploitation. What parts of yourself might you be disowning, and how might reclaiming them lead to more authentic connections?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone, I'm Dr Beatrice Ippolit and this is
your World.
What are the keycharacteristics of narcissistic
personality disorder and howdoes it differ from healthy
(00:21):
self-confidence?
And how does it differ fromhealthy self-confidence?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Okay, the DSM talks about those criteria that I
mentioned earlier.
The part that is different fromhealthy self-confidence has to
do with the grandiosity rightand the lack of empathy.
Someone who is so grandiose isthat they're not able to see
anyone else, they're only ableto see themselves.
(00:48):
It's as if, as what Freud said,the libidinal energy is not
outward facing, it's inwardfacing.
So all of that energy forcreativity and life is turned
inward.
Persons just focus onthemselves.
Turn inward Persons, just focuson themselves.
So someone who has healthyself-esteem and self-regard
(01:09):
would be able to engage withothers while at the same time
having understanding about whothey are right, feelings that
they are of worth, they arevaluable.
They are valuable, they hurt,they have limitations right, and
they have the capacity toempathize with others, with
(01:30):
others.
That's what we want to say iswhy a person is operating at a
normal functioning level asopposed to engaging and, on that
, narcissistic place.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So, in a way, being confident, you know, love
yourself and taking good care ofyourself and, like you know,
admire and always show yourself.
Hey, you know what you areworth.
You know of everything.
So, it's okay.
It doesn't mean that you areyou know you are narcissistic,
right.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
No, it doesn't Okay.
So we need to have a goodenough ego, right, good enough.
And so, for the narcissist,nothing is good enough.
Nothing is good enough for thenarcissist because, as I said,
the libidinal energy is focusedinwards.
(02:26):
Everything is about thenarcissist.
So, for someone who is healthyand has a good enough ego,
they're able to engage with life.
They may encounter certainfailures and so forth, but
they're able to bounce back fromit.
They have that ability and oneof the critical thing is that
(02:46):
the person is able to have goodrelationship with others, good
and healthy relationship withothers with no sense of
manipulation, yes, with no senseof manipulation, there's
neutrality, there'sunderstanding, there's
forgiveness and there's this wayof being that is alignment with
(03:09):
life.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Okay.
So my next question how willyou discuss the world of shame
and vulnerability in thedevelopment of narcissistic
tendencies?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
What we discover is that the person from a young age
would have been shamed, right,and so they don't want to look
at that.
Whatever the case may be, theydon't want to look at it.
So we have to try, very gently,to help them to see this
(03:46):
particular thing that you areavoiding, this part of yourself,
this experience that you areavoiding.
Let's look at it together in avery soft way.
I have an example that I canillustrate.
So I have a patient who'sexperienced abandonment right at
(04:07):
a very early age, say aroundsix.
Parental abandonment due tomigration.
So the patient lived in theCaribbean.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Which can be considered a trauma.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yes, it's traumatic and the patient had while
growing up.
They had a deformity right, aphysical deformity, and they
were made fun of because of itand they developed, they made
fun of, they felt as though theywere of no value, no worth,
because of this deformity.
(04:38):
In addition to that, accordingto them, they've been abandoned
by their parent because theparent is not there to take care
of them.
And so what happened with thispatient is that the patient
split off that part ofthemselves.
It's as if that part that isdisabled is not active.
It's not a part of them, it'sas if that part is something
(05:02):
else, it's not them.
And so now we had to walk verygently along the lines of
bringing that part back intoself because it belonged to you
you cannot dissociate yourselffrom it.
And dissociating yourself fromit does not do you any good
(05:25):
right now.
You did it at the time becauseit was a defense that you
utilized, but right now it's nolonger needed.
So we talk about that and theperson cried right.
So we had to go through thatpart of mourning, mourning that
part of themselves that they cutoff themselves from, and then
(05:46):
now having the courage and thesupport to recollect it.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So not only you know, you educate the person on who
she is, but at the same time youalso taught her that, hey,
whatever that is part of you,that's what makes you whole.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Whether that to many it may be ugly so, whether that
others may make you believe thatyou should be shameful of
yourself because of thatsituation.
But at the end of the day youcannot dissociate yourself from
that because you won't be whole.
If you kind of say, you knowwhat, let me take this aside and
(06:31):
I'm going to live with thatpart of that.
No, so you need everything.
So that was pretty impressive.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yes, yes, yes.
So that's how we.
We do it in a very gentle way,as I said, and it's specific to
the individual and we're alsolooking at okay, can this person
tolerate the truth in thismoment?
Can I give them the mirror forthem to see the reflection, the
shame-filled reflection in thismoment, that they can tolerate,
(07:01):
incorporate?
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I don't know if you you know, if you will agree with
me that the truth may come withsome type of pressure as well.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yes, but we also want to be mindful.
Well for us.
We want to be mindful that wedon't cause further
fragmentation in the individual,whereby they're not able to
engage in life after the sessionwould have ended.
So tact skill, therapeuticpresence and actually knowing
(07:36):
where the patient is at in themoment in time.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
All of those things are important to the process.
That's very important, Thankyou.
My next question how canindividuals recognize and manage
narcissistic behaviors inthemselves or others?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
narcissistic behaviors in themselves or
others.
Okay, so we talk about theconfessional component of depth
psychology, right?
An individual may not fullycome out and say, look, I have
some narcissistic tendencies andI'm looking to address it in
therapy.
Oftentimes that's not the case.
So what happens is that overtime, we're looking at the dream
(08:26):
, the dream life of the person,we're looking at how they're
functioning in their daily lifeand we're asking them to be
truthful in the process, right?
So when they bring theinformation in, I give the
reflection.
As I said, I give thereflection back, and the primary
reason for that is to help themto see the truth of what is
happening, remember, we talkabout.
According to the DSM, one of thecriteria is the fantasy and
(08:49):
fantastical way of being.
So we want to break thatfantasy apart, right, and to
help them to see the truth andto let them know that you know,
you're not that, while you maybe thinking that you're that
fragile, right, and you're notable to survive here.
(09:10):
Yes, you can.
And here's how you can, right.
And here's how you can right bygiving them back, giving them
the ego strength so that theycan see themselves, see the
truth in the particular behaviorthat is not healthy for normal
functioning.
And then they will say, ok,well, I understand, I understand
(09:34):
that this is a part of me and Ican't just throw this part away
.
Now, what do I do with it?
That's one of the questionsthat a patient may ask.
But what do I do with it?
Well, one of the things is tosee well, what are the patterns
here for you?
When do you becomenarcissistically inflated?
(10:00):
When?
When do you become that way?
What activates it for you?
And when you get to that point,what happens?
So we, you, have to do a littlebit more probing with the
individual.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that you know.
You also know that as much thatwe want to talk about all the
negative aspects of narcissisticpersonality disorder, but there
are some other positivecomponents attached to it as
well.
You know, like you know, forthose who are in the marketing
(10:32):
field, those who are in politics, so that personality disorder
can serve them, you know, intowhatever that they do.
Yes, so what about if yourclient is kind of like he's a
politician or somebody who is inthe sale business?
You know sale business.
(10:52):
So how will you approach youknow that person, because, hey,
that person needs a little bitof that personality you know
disorder to kind of like boostor sell himself or herself.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yes, okay.
So I want to do some thingswith what you're saying there.
So, someone who has anarcissistic personality
disorder, who?
Okay.
So there are different types ofnarcissists.
You have the at the extremelevel, you have the malignant
narcissist.
Okay, and I am not engagingwith a malignant narcissist
(11:33):
therapeutically.
I'm not doing that because whatwe find is that these malignant
narcissists are not operatingas though they want to have any
type of relationship and closeconnection with anyone.
So you have the grandiosenarcissist and you have the
vulnerable narcissist, right orthe covert narcissist.
And so the grandiose narcissistand you have the vulnerable
(11:53):
narcissist, right or the covertnarcissist.
And so the grandiose narcissistis someone who is out there,
maybe someone who is in a veryhigh pressure point position,
and the work depends on themfunctioning in such a big,
grandiose way.
And that's okay because it hasa function.
Now, what we want to do withthat individual is to help them
(12:15):
to see that this job is not whoyou are.
The job is a function, it's arole that you're playing, but
this is not the totality of you.
So it is as if to say well,okay, I'm going to put on the
clothing of the grandiosepersonality in this moment for
(12:36):
this purpose and then at the endof it I take it off and I'm
able to relate with other people.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
To relate to connect, respect and care for others,
yes, yes.
For others, yes so.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I know you mentioned politicians and those who are
working in marketing, and so Ihave a few people who work in
marketing.
They're not narcissisticpersonalities.
They're not that.
They're people who have bigpersonalities or they have
grandiosity, and we look at thattogether to see well, okay,
(13:12):
what is the function, what isthe purpose of this, and when do
you sacrifice it?
There must be a sacrifice rightin order for you to have that
quality relationship with otherpeople.
Otherwise, you'll be byyourself.
That's what some people may say.
This is the tradeoff.
I want to have goodrelationship with people, but in
(13:35):
order for me to do that, I needto sacrifice my grandiosity.
I need to hold the tensiontogether, right, so that I can
have that relatedness.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
So you know, in a way , you're telling me so okay,
these personalities, theseothers, you know there are some
characteristics that may serveyou while you are practicing,
you know in the field ofpolitics or sales, but at the
same talking.
So know that this is not whoyou are.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
It's not who you are you know it's not who you are,
okay, and and young talks aboutthis too, because, all right,
there's a in terms of the causefor narcissistic personality
disorder, one we think that ithas to do with deep
psychological wounding at anearly age, right, and sometimes
one may over-identify with thewoundedness, right, and they
(14:25):
have to develop the personalityaround the woundedness.
And then there are other timeswhen there is an archetypal
identification.
Someone may be identifying withthe hero, right, so the hero is
big, he's grand, he needs to goand fight the battle and so
forth, but then what happens?
(14:45):
Is he continually fighting abattle?
Is the hero continuallyfighting?
Where's the rest time?
What about the rest time?
Right?
What, what?
What about the rest time?
Right, so we're looking at that, we're trying to help the
person to see.
Well, no identification withthe archetype does you
tremendous disservice, right?
(15:08):
So we want you to not do thatokay, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
So sometimes it's easier said than done.
You know that would have been agood practice, you know so for
many people who exhibit thatpersonality disorder.
So it's like to understand, youknow, hey, you what?
At the end of the day, I may beusing this or that because it's
(15:35):
benefited me or I can gain fromit in that area or this area,
but at the same time I have tounderstand that human beings are
human beings and they need tobe treated with fairness and
dignity.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
And respect and respect.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
My next question what are the implications
narcissisms for relationshipsand mental health, and how can
individuals develop healthierrelationship patterns?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
So the work any therapist would do with someone
who's struggling withnarcissistic personality traits,
structure, tendencies, is tohelp them to be more relatable.
Right To have compassion forthemselves and for them to
understand that there is such athing that is good enough.
(16:27):
Right For them to understandand accept the good enoughness
in them and in others.
Without that, then you willfind someone will be operating
as a narcissistic personalitydisorder, according to the, the
dsm, and they would not beengaged in any meaningful
(16:49):
relationship.
It would be a relationship thatis exploitative, contractual,
transactional, domineering right, and so it wouldn't be
something that is functional,functional, yes, and healthy.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
In a way.
So it's like, hey, we have tofind a way to avoid that at all
times.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
At all times.
Yes, okay very important.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
How does death psychology inform our
understanding of shame andnarcissisms, and vice versa?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
How does death psychology inform our
understanding of shame?
and narcissism our understandingof shame and narcissism.
What both Freud and Jung agreeon is that narcissism is
developmental in a way, andprimary narcissism is
developmental and healthy.
Secondary narcissism or anarcissistic personality
(17:48):
disorder is not right Accordingto those two depth psychologists
.
The child at age two or threewho we will consider a bona fide
narcissist you know, thetoddler who the whole world
revolves around the whole worldyes, he or she needs to have
(18:09):
that experience as they arenavigating the world right,
testing boundaries and so on.
It helps to buildself-confidence and self-esteem,
right, and so it isdevelopmental in that sense.
And so what tends to happen isthat some people are not able to
(18:32):
move through that developmentalstage to get to that place
where they're relating to theenvironment, they're relating to
the other right and the otheris separate, apart from and
distinct from them.
And so what happens with thatis that that individual becomes
the narcissist or have thatstrong narcissistic, splitter
(18:55):
tendency.
Hello everyone, I'm Dr Beatrice Ippolit and this is
your World.
What are the keycharacteristics of narcissistic
personality disorder and howdoes it differ from healthy
(00:21):
self-confidence?
And how does it differ fromhealthy self-confidence?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Okay, the DSM talks about those criteria that I
mentioned earlier.
The part that is different fromhealthy self-confidence has to
do with the grandiosity rightand the lack of empathy.
Someone who is so grandiose isthat they're not able to see
anyone else, they're only ableto see themselves.
(00:48):
It's as if, as what Freud said,the libidinal energy is not
outward facing, it's inwardfacing.
So all of that energy forcreativity and life is turned
inward.
Persons just focus onthemselves.
Turn inward Persons, just focuson themselves.
So someone who has healthyself-esteem and self-regard
(01:09):
would be able to engage withothers while at the same time
having understanding about whothey are right, feelings that
they are of worth, they arevaluable.
They are valuable, they hurt,they have limitations right, and
they have the capacity toempathize with others, with
(01:30):
others.
That's what we want to say iswhy a person is operating at a
normal functioning level asopposed to engaging and, on that
, narcissistic place.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So, in a way, being confident, you know, love
yourself and taking good care ofyourself and, like you know,
admire and always show yourself.
Hey, you know what you areworth.
You know of everything.
So, it's okay.
It doesn't mean that you areyou know you are narcissistic,
right.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
No, it doesn't Okay.
So we need to have a goodenough ego, right, good enough.
And so, for the narcissist,nothing is good enough.
Nothing is good enough for thenarcissist because, as I said,
the libidinal energy is focusedinwards.
(02:26):
Everything is about thenarcissist.
So, for someone who is healthyand has a good enough ego,
they're able to engage with life.
They may encounter certainfailures and so forth, but
they're able to bounce back fromit.
They have that ability and oneof the critical thing is that
(02:46):
the person is able to have goodrelationship with others, good
and healthy relationship withothers with no sense of
manipulation, yes, with no senseof manipulation, there's
neutrality, there'sunderstanding, there's
forgiveness and there's this wayof being that is alignment with
(03:09):
life.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Okay.
So my next question how willyou discuss the world of shame
and vulnerability in thedevelopment of narcissistic
tendencies?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
What we discover is that the person from a young age
would have been shamed, right,and so they don't want to look
at that.
Whatever the case may be, theydon't want to look at it.
So we have to try, very gently,to help them to see this
(03:46):
particular thing that you areavoiding, this part of yourself,
this experience that you areavoiding.
Let's look at it together in avery soft way.
I have an example that I canillustrate.
So I have a patient who'sexperienced abandonment right at
(04:07):
a very early age, say aroundsix.
Parental abandonment due tomigration.
So the patient lived in theCaribbean.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Which can be considered a trauma.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yes, it's traumatic and the patient had while
growing up.
They had a deformity right, aphysical deformity, and they
were made fun of because of itand they developed, they made
fun of, they felt as though theywere of no value, no worth,
because of this deformity.
(04:38):
In addition to that, accordingto them, they've been abandoned
by their parent because theparent is not there to take care
of them.
And so what happened with thispatient is that the patient
split off that part ofthemselves.
It's as if that part that isdisabled is not active.
It's not a part of them, it'sas if that part is something
(05:02):
else, it's not them.
And so now we had to walk verygently along the lines of
bringing that part back intoself because it belonged to you
you cannot dissociate yourselffrom it.
And dissociating yourself fromit does not do you any good
(05:25):
right now.
You did it at the time becauseit was a defense that you
utilized, but right now it's nolonger needed.
So we talk about that and theperson cried right.
So we had to go through thatpart of mourning, mourning that
part of themselves that they cutoff themselves from, and then
(05:46):
now having the courage and thesupport to recollect it.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So not only you know, you educate the person on who
she is, but at the same time youalso taught her that, hey,
whatever that is part of you,that's what makes you whole.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Whether that to many it may be ugly so, whether that
others may make you believe thatyou should be shameful of
yourself because of thatsituation.
But at the end of the day youcannot dissociate yourself from
that because you won't be whole.
If you kind of say, you knowwhat, let me take this aside and
(06:31):
I'm going to live with thatpart of that.
No, so you need everything.
So that was pretty impressive.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yes, yes, yes.
So that's how we.
We do it in a very gentle way,as I said, and it's specific to
the individual and we're alsolooking at okay, can this person
tolerate the truth in thismoment?
Can I give them the mirror forthem to see the reflection, the
shame-filled reflection in thismoment, that they can tolerate,
(07:01):
incorporate?
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I don't know if you you know, if you will agree with
me that the truth may come withsome type of pressure as well.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yes, but we also want to be mindful.
Well for us.
We want to be mindful that wedon't cause further
fragmentation in the individual,whereby they're not able to
engage in life after the sessionwould have ended.
So tact skill, therapeuticpresence and actually knowing
(07:36):
where the patient is at in themoment in time.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
All of those things are important to the process.
That's very important, Thankyou.
My next question how canindividuals recognize and manage
narcissistic behaviors inthemselves or others?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
narcissistic behaviors in themselves or
others.
Okay, so we talk about theconfessional component of depth
psychology, right?
An individual may not fullycome out and say, look, I have
some narcissistic tendencies andI'm looking to address it in
therapy.
Oftentimes that's not the case.
So what happens is that overtime, we're looking at the dream
(08:26):
, the dream life of the person,we're looking at how they're
functioning in their daily lifeand we're asking them to be
truthful in the process, right?
So when they bring theinformation in, I give the
reflection.
As I said, I give thereflection back, and the primary
reason for that is to help themto see the truth of what is
happening, remember, we talkabout.
According to the DSM, one of thecriteria is the fantasy and
(08:49):
fantastical way of being.
So we want to break thatfantasy apart, right, and to
help them to see the truth andto let them know that you know,
you're not that, while you maybe thinking that you're that
fragile, right, and you're notable to survive here.
(09:10):
Yes, you can.
And here's how you can, right.
And here's how you can right bygiving them back, giving them
the ego strength so that theycan see themselves, see the
truth in the particular behaviorthat is not healthy for normal
functioning.
And then they will say, ok,well, I understand, I understand
(09:34):
that this is a part of me and Ican't just throw this part away
.
Now, what do I do with it?
That's one of the questionsthat a patient may ask.
But what do I do with it?
Well, one of the things is tosee well, what are the patterns
here for you?
When do you becomenarcissistically inflated?
(10:00):
When?
When do you become that way?
What activates it for you?
And when you get to that point,what happens?
So we, you, have to do a littlebit more probing with the
individual.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that you know.
You also know that as much thatwe want to talk about all the
negative aspects of narcissisticpersonality disorder, but there
are some other positivecomponents attached to it as
well.
You know, like you know, forthose who are in the marketing
(10:32):
field, those who are in politics, so that personality disorder
can serve them, you know, intowhatever that they do.
Yes, so what about if yourclient is kind of like he's a
politician or somebody who is inthe sale business?
You know sale business.
(10:52):
So how will you approach youknow that person, because, hey,
that person needs a little bitof that personality you know
disorder to kind of like boostor sell himself or herself.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yes, okay.
So I want to do some thingswith what you're saying there.
So, someone who has anarcissistic personality
disorder, who?
Okay.
So there are different types ofnarcissists.
You have the at the extremelevel, you have the malignant
narcissist.
Okay, and I am not engagingwith a malignant narcissist
(11:33):
therapeutically.
I'm not doing that because whatwe find is that these malignant
narcissists are not operatingas though they want to have any
type of relationship and closeconnection with anyone.
So you have the grandiosenarcissist and you have the
vulnerable narcissist, right orthe covert narcissist.
And so the grandiose narcissistand you have the vulnerable
(11:53):
narcissist, right or the covertnarcissist.
And so the grandiose narcissistis someone who is out there,
maybe someone who is in a veryhigh pressure point position,
and the work depends on themfunctioning in such a big,
grandiose way.
And that's okay because it hasa function.
Now, what we want to do withthat individual is to help them
(12:15):
to see that this job is not whoyou are.
The job is a function, it's arole that you're playing, but
this is not the totality of you.
So it is as if to say well,okay, I'm going to put on the
clothing of the grandiosepersonality in this moment for
(12:36):
this purpose and then at the endof it I take it off and I'm
able to relate with other people.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
To relate to connect, respect and care for others,
yes, yes.
For others, yes so.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I know you mentioned politicians and those who are
working in marketing, and so Ihave a few people who work in
marketing.
They're not narcissisticpersonalities.
They're not that.
They're people who have bigpersonalities or they have
grandiosity, and we look at thattogether to see well, okay,
(13:12):
what is the function, what isthe purpose of this, and when do
you sacrifice it?
There must be a sacrifice rightin order for you to have that
quality relationship with otherpeople.
Otherwise, you'll be byyourself.
That's what some people may say.
This is the tradeoff.
I want to have goodrelationship with people, but in
(13:35):
order for me to do that, I needto sacrifice my grandiosity.
I need to hold the tensiontogether, right, so that I can
have that relatedness.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
So you know, in a way , you're telling me so okay,
these personalities, theseothers, you know there are some
characteristics that may serveyou while you are practicing,
you know in the field ofpolitics or sales, but at the
same talking.
So know that this is not whoyou are.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
It's not who you are you know it's not who you are,
okay, and and young talks aboutthis too, because, all right,
there's a in terms of the causefor narcissistic personality
disorder, one we think that ithas to do with deep
psychological wounding at anearly age, right, and sometimes
one may over-identify with thewoundedness, right, and they
(14:25):
have to develop the personalityaround the woundedness.
And then there are other timeswhen there is an archetypal
identification.
Someone may be identifying withthe hero, right, so the hero is
big, he's grand, he needs to goand fight the battle and so
forth, but then what happens?
(14:45):
Is he continually fighting abattle?
Is the hero continuallyfighting?
Where's the rest time?
What about the rest time?
Right?
What, what?
What about the rest time?
Right, so we're looking at that, we're trying to help the
person to see.
Well, no identification withthe archetype does you
tremendous disservice, right?
(15:08):
So we want you to not do thatokay, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
So sometimes it's easier said than done.
You know that would have been agood practice, you know so for
many people who exhibit thatpersonality disorder.
So it's like to understand, youknow, hey, you what?
At the end of the day, I may beusing this or that because it's
(15:35):
benefited me or I can gain fromit in that area or this area,
but at the same time I have tounderstand that human beings are
human beings and they need tobe treated with fairness and
dignity.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
And respect and respect.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
My next question what are the implications
narcissisms for relationshipsand mental health, and how can
individuals develop healthierrelationship patterns?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
So the work any therapist would do with someone
who's struggling withnarcissistic personality traits,
structure, tendencies, is tohelp them to be more relatable.
Right To have compassion forthemselves and for them to
understand that there is such athing that is good enough.
(16:27):
Right For them to understandand accept the good enoughness
in them and in others.
Without that, then you willfind someone will be operating
as a narcissistic personalitydisorder, according to the, the
dsm, and they would not beengaged in any meaningful
(16:49):
relationship.
It would be a relationship thatis exploitative, contractual,
transactional, domineering right, and so it wouldn't be
something that is functional,functional, yes, and healthy.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
In a way.
So it's like, hey, we have tofind a way to avoid that at all
times.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
At all times.
Yes, okay very important.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
How does death psychology inform our
understanding of shame andnarcissisms, and vice versa?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
How does death psychology inform our
understanding of shame?
and narcissism our understandingof shame and narcissism.
What both Freud and Jung agreeon is that narcissism is
developmental in a way, andprimary narcissism is
developmental and healthy.
Secondary narcissism or anarcissistic personality
(17:48):
disorder is not right Accordingto those two depth psychologists
.
The child at age two or threewho we will consider a bona fide
narcissist you know, thetoddler who the whole world
revolves around the whole worldyes, he or she needs to have
(18:09):
that experience as they arenavigating the world right,
testing boundaries and so on.
It helps to buildself-confidence and self-esteem,
right, and so it isdevelopmental in that sense.
And so what tends to happen isthat some people are not able to
(18:32):
move through that developmentalstage to get to that place
where they're relating to theenvironment, they're relating to
the other right and the otheris separate, apart from and
distinct from them.
And so what happens with thatis that that individual becomes
the narcissist or have thatstrong narcissistic, splitter
(18:55):
tendency.
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