December 30, 2024 • 21 mins
Carbon offsets are everywhere, promising guilt-free solutions to the climate crisis. But are they truly effective—or just a convenient distraction for big corporations? In this episode, we unpack the world of carbon offsets, separating fact from fiction, and exploring whether they can genuinely help combat climate change or are simply a PR strategy.
🌟 What You’ll Learn:
- What Are Carbon Offsets? A straightforward breakdown of how they work and why they’re so appealing.
- The Risks: From greenwashing and unverifiable claims to projects that fail to deliver real climate benefits.
- The Alternatives: Why direct emissions reductions and systemic change are more critical than ever.
🌿 Why You Should Listen:
- Learn how to identify credible offsets and avoid falling for inflated claims.
- Discover real-world examples of successes, failures, and what businesses can do better.
- Understand how offsets can play a role—but only as part of a larger, meaningful climate action plan.
✨ Key Highlights:
- Real examples of controversial offsets, including Verra’s rainforest credits.
- The biggest misconceptions about offsets and how they can mislead.
- Expert-backed strategies to ensure companies prioritize real climate solutions.
💬 What Listeners Are Saying: “This episode opened my eyes to the reality of offsets—I’ll never see ‘carbon neutral’ claims the same way again!” “Actionable insights with a perfect balance of data and real-world examples. A must-listen!”
🎧 Join the Conversation: Wondering whether carbon offsets are part of the solution or just a way to avoid real responsibility? Tune in now and learn how to approach this critical topic with confidence and clarity. 🌍💡
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back everyone to the deep dive ready to get into it today. Definitely always excited to dive into a new topic
(00:05):
All right, so today dive into all the stuff you sent over about carbon offsets. Yeah, seems like you're trying to figure out
You know, are they legit or they just greenwashing?
It's a huge question and one that a lot of people are asking right now
Yeah, for sure and you even flagged this idea of a carbon bubble, right?
Like comparing the hype around offsets to what happened with the housing market back in 2008. Yeah, it is a pretty compelling analogy
(00:31):
Right. I mean are we kind of setting ourselves up for another crash?
Yeah, and you know one article I saw pointed out that the carbon removal industry would actually have to grow something like
700 times bigger by 2030. Yeah to even come close to meeting the global targets for for climate change
That's like going from, you know, couch potato to marathon runner in like a week. Yeah, exactly
(00:55):
So I think maybe we need to take a step back for a second and just to find what we're even talking about here
Okay, when we say carbon offsets, what does that actually mean?
So basically a carbon offset is kind of like a pollution IOU a company or an individual they keep on polluting
But they're buying these credits to fund
projects that are supposed to remove or reduce the same amount of emissions
(01:17):
Somewhere else. So things like planting trees to absorb CO2 or investing in renewable energy projects. Exactly. Yeah
Those are those are two of the big ones. Okay, got it
But from what I'm seeing in all this research you sent it seemed like there are some real concerns about whether this system is actually working as well as
You know people say it is. Yeah, there are definitely some some big
(01:40):
Questions and challenges that that we need to address like what what are some of the things that you're seeing?
Well, one of the biggest things is this concept of additionality. Okay, so to be a legitimate offset a
Project has to show that it's actually reducing emissions. That wouldn't have happened anyway
It can't just be business as usual, you know, it has to be something above and beyond. Yeah
(02:00):
Improving that can be really tricky. You actually highlighted one study that found that only something like 12% of offsets
Wow actually led to real emissions reductions. Yeah, that's that's a pretty dismal success rate
Right, that's that's a pretty big red flag. I mean doesn't that kind of make you question the whole thing?
It definitely raises some some serious concerns
(02:20):
And it just underscores the need for a lot more scrutiny and transparency in this market
Yeah, you really need to be sure that these projects are doing what they claim to be doing
Right. Yeah, absolutely
So we've got this issue of additionality, but then there's also the question of permanence, right, you know a lot of these offset
Projects, especially the ones that involve planting trees. Mm-hmm. They're relying on the idea that
(02:45):
That carbon will be stored for decades, maybe even centuries, right?
But what happens if those trees, you know get destroyed under a wildfire or they get cut down or they just die naturally
Yeah, that's the that's the million dollar question, right?
You know forever is a long time. Yeah, and there are all sorts of things that could happen that could undermine those long-term
Storage promises, right? I mean one article you said had this this great analogy
(03:09):
They were talking about planting trees to offset a flight from London to Vancouver
Okay, and they said to really compensate for all those emissions
You would need like 10 or 15 saplings for every single passenger on that plane
I and even then it would take years for those trees to actually grow big enough, right?
To make a real dent in those carbon emissions
(03:31):
So what you're saying is that these nature-based solutions like planting trees they can be pretty risky, right? They can be yeah
Because there are so many things that are just outside of our control. Okay, so we've talked about additionality. We've talked about permanence
Yeah, what about the cost of these offsets, right because
You know a lot of the research you've shared has raised questions about where that money is actually going
(03:53):
Yeah, and whether it's actually funding real climate action. Yeah, that's a that's a really important piece of this puzzle
Mm-hmm, you know some estimates suggest that like 70% of the money that people spend on offsets can get eaten up by just
Administrative costs really yeah, so you have to wonder
Mm-hmm is that money actually going to the projects that need it right or is it just kind of disappearing into this black hole of
(04:18):
Bureaucracy so it sounds like it's not just about the quantity of offsets
But the quality and the impact they're actually having absolutely
We need to be we need to be really careful about where we're putting our money and and what projects we're supporting
Yeah, because otherwise, you know, we could be
Throwing good money after bad and just perpetuating a system. That's not actually delivering real climate solutions
(04:40):
Yeah, for sure, and I mean it's not just about the money, right, right some of the research you sent actually raises some pretty serious ethical
Questions about these projects too. We're talking about things like the potential for communities to be displaced
Yeah biodiversity loss and even just straight-up accusations of greenwashing. Yeah, you're absolutely right
(05:00):
Yeah, one of the most striking examples that you sent. Yeah involved this organization called Vera
They're actually the world largest certifier of rainforest carbon offsets, okay?
And there was this big investigation recently and they found that a huge chunk of these rainforest credits
Hmm might actually be worthless what they're calling phantom credit and some credit. Yeah, so basically credits that are being sold
(05:24):
okay, but
The the actual emission reductions that they're supposed to represent. They're just not there. So they're kind of like fake credits
Yeah, kind of oh, and what's really crazy is that big companies like Disney and Shell?
They've bought these credits. Wow, so if these big companies are getting it wrong. Yeah
Yeah
What hope is there for the rest of us? It's a it's a wake-up call for sure
(05:48):
Yeah, it just shows that we can't take these certifications at face value. We need to dig deeper
We need to demand more transparency from these offset providers. So okay big question then
Are all
Carbon offsets bad I
Wouldn't say all I mean, it's not a black-and-white issue. Okay. There are definitely some really good projects out there
(06:11):
Mm-hmm, but you have to be careful, right? Yeah, it's like anything else
There are good and bad apples right and the key is to do your homework
Okay before you invest in any particular project. So what should we be looking for?
Well, one of the most important things is third-party certification. Okay, you want to look for
projects that have been vetted by
(06:34):
reputable organizations, okay like the gold standard or the verified carbon standard got it these organizations
They have very strict criteria for
evaluating projects to make sure that they're actually delivering real
Merable and verifiable emission reductions. So it's not just about trusting
(06:54):
The company that's selling the offsets, right? It's about looking for that independent verification
Exactly, and it's not just about the carbon either. No, not at all. I mean, you know some of these certification programs
Yeah, they also look at other benefits things like biodiversity conservation or community development or improved air quality
So it's more like a holistic approach. Exactly. It's about finding projects that have these positive ripple effects that go beyond just carbon
(07:22):
Okay, so let's say we found a project that ticks all those boxes. It's certified. It's additional. It's permanent. It's ethical
Okay
How do we know that it's actually making a difference? Right? Yeah, how do we know that it's actually contributing to a reduction in global emissions?
Well, that's where the whole idea of a carbon budget comes in. Okay, you know scientists have basically calculated
(07:45):
How much carbon we can still emit globally while staying within these safe temperature limits?
Okay, and that budget is shrinking really fast, right?
So even if a company is offsetting all of its emissions
Yeah, it's still using up a portion of that global budget. Got it. So it's not like they're getting a free pass. No, not at all
Okay, it's more like they're buying a little bit of wiggle room while we work on the bigger problem of
(08:08):
Reducing emissions overall. So it sounds like offsets are more like a temporary solution. They should be yeah, okay
They should never be seen as the main solution, right? They should be a last resort
Got something you do only after you've done everything you can yeah to reduce your own emissions directly
It's like trying to lose weight by buying diet pills right instead of you know
(08:30):
Changing your eating habits exactly. Yeah, you can't offset your way out of the problem. You have to address the root cause
But what about those industries where it's really hard to reduce emissions directly, right?
Like you know things like aviation or heavy industry. Yeah, those are those are tough ones
And and honestly, it's gonna take time to develop and deploy those clean technologies
(08:54):
Right, we need to really decarbonize those sectors. So in the meantime offsets can maybe play a role potentially
Yeah, they can be a bridge. Okay while we work on those long-term solutions
Yeah, but it's really important that those companies are still actively pursuing those direct emission reduction strategies, right?
They can't just buy offsets and call it a day. So it's like a bull hand situation
(09:16):
Exactly. We need both the offsets and the direct reductions to really make progress. Yeah, okay
So the key message here seems to be that offsets can be a useful tool
But they're not a silver bullet, right?
We need to be smart about how we use them absolutely and we need to prioritize direct emission reductions above all else
I completely agree. All right, so that brings us to the big question, right? Okay?
(09:39):
Are carbon offsets ultimately a solution?
Or distraction?
That's a tough one and I think the answer really depends on how they're used if they're used
Responsibly as part of a comprehensive climate strategy, right? Then yeah, they can definitely contribute to progress
Okay, but if they're seen as a way to avoid making real changes, yeah
(10:01):
Then they become a dangerous distraction and that's where the potential for greenwashing comes in, right? Exactly
You know companies could be tempted to use offsets to make themselves look good
Yeah, without actually addressing the root causes of their emissions exactly and that's why it's so important for consumers to
Be aware of this dynamic, right? You know, we need to demand more transparency
(10:24):
From these companies about their climate actions. Yeah, absolutely. We need to dig deeper ask questions and hold them accountable for sure
so as
We've been talking about all this
One thing that's really stood out to me is the importance of innovation
Yeah, you know, we've talked a lot about the potential downsides and risks, right?
(10:45):
But you've also shared some really exciting research about new approaches to carbon removal. Yeah, there's some really cool stuff happening
Yeah, absolutely like one example that I thought was really fascinating is this project called carbon casting. Oh, yeah
That's a great one from a company called graphite, right? Yeah, and
They're basically taking
Dried biomass like leftover wood and stuff and they're burying it underground. Yeah, it's like giant Tupperware for carbon
(11:11):
Yeah, exactly. And what I thought was really interesting is that the science behind it seems pretty solid
It does. Yeah, they're saying that this could lock away carbon for incredibly long periods of time potentially
Yeah, like essentially removing it from the atmosphere for good. That's the idea
But even with a solution like this that sounds like forever storage
(11:34):
Doesn't the question of permanence still kind of linger?
It does it does and I think we need to be cautious about making any claims about forever, right?
You know geologically speaking forever is a really really long time
Yeah, for sure
And you know, we haven't been testing this method for long enough to say for certain how it will hold up over centuries or millennia
(11:55):
Right what happens if there are shifts in the earth's crust or if water seeps into the storage site
Mm-hmm, you know, these are all things that we need to think about. Yeah, absolutely
So even with these cutting-edge technologies, yeah, we can't just assume that forever storage is a guaranteed outcome
Exactly. We need to be cautious
We need to collect data and make sure that these solutions are actually working the way they're supposed to
(12:17):
I couldn't agree more and and that applies to all types of carbon offsets, right?
Not just these new and innovative approaches, right?
You know, we need to move away from making these vague promises about future emission reductions
Yeah, and focus on building a system that's based on solid evidence and accountability
Okay, so we've covered a lot of ground here
(12:38):
additionality
permanence cost
ethics
Innovation a lot. Yeah, it's a big topic. Yeah, it's clear that carbon offsets are complex. They are they have both potential and pitfalls
Absolutely, so as we're kind of wrapping up this part of our deep dive here
What's the most important thing for our listener to remember about carbon offsets?
(12:59):
You know, I think the biggest takeaway is that offsets should never be seen as a silver bullet
They can be a useful tool as part of a broader climate strategy, but they should always be a last resort
Okay, something that you do only after you've done everything you can to
Reduce your own emissions directly, right? Like we were saying earlier. You can't just offset your way out of the problem
(13:22):
Exactly, you have to address the root causes. Yeah, the real solution lies in
transforming our energy systems
Adopting cleaner technologies and fundamentally changing the way we live and consume so offsets can help
But they can't replace that hard work
Exactly of decarbonizing our economies and our societies and I think
(13:44):
As we move forward, it's so important for all of us. Yeah individuals businesses policymakers
To be informed and to be engaged absolutely and to be really critical consumers of information about carbon offsets
For sure. We can't just accept claims at face value. We have to ask questions
Demand transparency and hold those in power accountable for their actions
(14:08):
I think that's a great message to to kind of keep in mind as we move forward
Yeah, and as we keep exploring this topic because there's a lot more to unpack here
Definitely
So we were talking about how you know, we need to be really careful about where we're putting our money
And what projects we're supporting and and you know, we have to be careful about greenwashing
For sure and and making sure that these offsets are actually doing what they claim to be doing
(14:31):
Absolutely, and and you know one of the the things that's really important is to look beyond just the carbon reductions themselves
Okay, you know think about the bigger picture. Okay. What are the other impacts of these projects? Yeah, like what?
Well, for example, some offset projects. They can actually help to create jobs in local communities. That's great. Yeah
(14:51):
So it's not just about the environment, right? It's about the people too. Yeah, and and some projects can also help to protect
Biodiversity, okay or improve air quality. So it's really about finding those projects that have these positive ripple effects
Exactly. Yeah, it's not just about checking a box. It's about making a real difference. Okay, so let's say we found a project that checks all those boxes
(15:16):
Certified it's additional. It's permanent. It's ethical. Okay
How do we know that it's actually contributing to reducing global emissions, right? Yeah, how do we sit this into the bigger picture?
Well, that's where the idea of a carbon budget comes in. Okay
Scientists have basically calculated how much carbon we can still emit globally
While staying within these safe temperature limits. Okay, and that budget is shrinking really fast, right?
(15:41):
So even if a company is offsetting all of its emissions
Yeah, it's still using up a portion of that global budget. So it's not like they're getting a free pass. No, not at all
It's more like they're buying a little bit of time
While we work on the bigger problem of reducing emissions overall. So offsets are kind of like a temporary solution. They should be. Yeah
They should never be seen as the main solution. Right. They should be a last resort
(16:05):
Got it. Something you do only after you've done everything you can to reduce your own emissions directly
It's like trying to lose weight by buying diet pills, right instead of, you know, changing your eating habits
Exactly. Yeah, you can't just offset your way out of the problem. You have to address the root cause
Okay, but what about those industries where it's really hard to reduce emissions directly, right?
(16:28):
Like aviation or heavy industry. Yeah, those are those are tough nuts to crack. Yeah
And honestly, it's going to take time
To develop and deploy the technologies that we need to really decarbonize those sectors
So in the meantime offsets can maybe help
They can potentially play a role. Yeah, okay
They can be a bridge while we work on those longer term solutions
(16:51):
Got it
But it's really important that those companies are still actively pursuing those direct emission reduction strategies
You know, they can't just buy offsets and call it a day. So it's kind of a boat hand situation. Exactly. Yeah
We need both the offsets and the direct reductions to really make progress. Okay
So the key takeaway here is that offsets can be a tool
But they're not a silver bullet, right?
(17:13):
We have to be smart about how we use them for sure and we need to prioritize direct emission reductions above all else
I totally agree. Okay. So now I think the big question is okay are carbon offsets
Ultimately a solution or distraction. That is the million dollar question, isn't it? Yeah
And I think the answer really depends on how they're used. Okay, you know, if they're used responsibly as
(17:37):
Part of a comprehensive climate strategy, right? Then yeah, they can contribute to progress
Okay, but if they're seen as a way to just avoid making real changes
Yeah, then they become a dangerous distraction, right and that's where this whole issue of greenwashing comes in exactly
You know companies might be tempted to use offsets
Yeah, make themselves look good without actually addressing the root causes of their emissions
(17:58):
Exactly. And that's why it's so important for consumers to be aware of this and to really demand more transparency
Yeah from these companies. Absolutely
We need to dig deeper. Yeah ask tough questions and hold them accountable. Couldn't agree more. Okay, so
You know, we've been talking about these offsets as kind of a
A tool in the toolbox. Yeah, but you know, there are a lot of other things that we need to be doing, right?
(18:24):
Absolutely to address climate change. It's not just about offsets
It's about transforming our energy systems. It's about changing the way we live and consume, right?
You know, it's about a fundamental shift. Yeah, absolutely our relationship with the planet
And and I think you know, one of the things that's really exciting is that there's
So much innovation happening in this space. Oh, yeah, absolutely
(18:44):
There are all these new technologies and approaches emerging
That can really help us to reduce emissions like, you know, we were talking earlier about carbon casting. Yeah, that's a great example
That's one example, but there are so many others, right, you know, people are working on things like direct air capture
Carving sequestration all sorts of really cool stuff. It's amazing to see
You know the the ingenuity and the creativity that people are bringing to this challenge
(19:10):
So even though the situation can feel pretty dire sometimes. Yeah, I think it's important to remember that there's still hope
I agree
You know, we have the tools we have the knowledge
Yeah, and we have the ingenuity to solve this problem. We just need the will
Yeah, absolutely. We need the political will. We need the social will
We need to come together and actually make these changes happen
(19:33):
So I guess the the big question for our listener is what can they do? Yeah, what can we all do? Yeah
Well, I think first and foremost, we need to educate ourselves. Okay, we need to understand the science of climate change
We need to understand the solutions. Yeah, and we need to understand the challenge. Yes. Once we have that knowledge
Then we can start to make informed choices. Okay, so educate ourselves and then what then we need to take action
(19:58):
And that can take many different forms. You know, it could be
Making changes in our own lives like reducing our energy consumption. Okay, or choosing more sustainable products, right?
It could be supporting businesses that are committed to climate action
It could be advocating for policy changes. You know, there are so many different ways to get involved
(20:21):
So it's not just about individual actions. It's about systemic change as well. Exactly. We need both
Right. We need individual action and we need systemic change. Okay, so educate ourselves
Take action and what else?
And I think most importantly
We need to stay hopeful. Yeah, you know, it's easy to get discouraged when you look at the scale of the problem
(20:42):
But we can't give up. We have to believe that we can solve this
Absolutely, and we have to keep fighting for a better future
And if anyone's feeling inspired to learn more check out the you read we write blog
There's tons of info there and practical advice too. Thanks for joining us on the deep dive everyone. We'll see you next time
Welcome back everyone to the deep dive ready to get into it today. Definitely always excited to dive into a new topic
(00:05):
All right, so today dive into all the stuff you sent over about carbon offsets. Yeah, seems like you're trying to figure out
You know, are they legit or they just greenwashing?
It's a huge question and one that a lot of people are asking right now
Yeah, for sure and you even flagged this idea of a carbon bubble, right?
Like comparing the hype around offsets to what happened with the housing market back in 2008. Yeah, it is a pretty compelling analogy
(00:31):
Right. I mean are we kind of setting ourselves up for another crash?
Yeah, and you know one article I saw pointed out that the carbon removal industry would actually have to grow something like
700 times bigger by 2030. Yeah to even come close to meeting the global targets for for climate change
That's like going from, you know, couch potato to marathon runner in like a week. Yeah, exactly
(00:55):
So I think maybe we need to take a step back for a second and just to find what we're even talking about here
Okay, when we say carbon offsets, what does that actually mean?
So basically a carbon offset is kind of like a pollution IOU a company or an individual they keep on polluting
But they're buying these credits to fund
projects that are supposed to remove or reduce the same amount of emissions
(01:17):
Somewhere else. So things like planting trees to absorb CO2 or investing in renewable energy projects. Exactly. Yeah
Those are those are two of the big ones. Okay, got it
But from what I'm seeing in all this research you sent it seemed like there are some real concerns about whether this system is actually working as well as
You know people say it is. Yeah, there are definitely some some big
(01:40):
Questions and challenges that that we need to address like what what are some of the things that you're seeing?
Well, one of the biggest things is this concept of additionality. Okay, so to be a legitimate offset a
Project has to show that it's actually reducing emissions. That wouldn't have happened anyway
It can't just be business as usual, you know, it has to be something above and beyond. Yeah
(02:00):
Improving that can be really tricky. You actually highlighted one study that found that only something like 12% of offsets
Wow actually led to real emissions reductions. Yeah, that's that's a pretty dismal success rate
Right, that's that's a pretty big red flag. I mean doesn't that kind of make you question the whole thing?
It definitely raises some some serious concerns
(02:20):
And it just underscores the need for a lot more scrutiny and transparency in this market
Yeah, you really need to be sure that these projects are doing what they claim to be doing
Right. Yeah, absolutely
So we've got this issue of additionality, but then there's also the question of permanence, right, you know a lot of these offset
Projects, especially the ones that involve planting trees. Mm-hmm. They're relying on the idea that
(02:45):
That carbon will be stored for decades, maybe even centuries, right?
But what happens if those trees, you know get destroyed under a wildfire or they get cut down or they just die naturally
Yeah, that's the that's the million dollar question, right?
You know forever is a long time. Yeah, and there are all sorts of things that could happen that could undermine those long-term
Storage promises, right? I mean one article you said had this this great analogy
(03:09):
They were talking about planting trees to offset a flight from London to Vancouver
Okay, and they said to really compensate for all those emissions
You would need like 10 or 15 saplings for every single passenger on that plane
I and even then it would take years for those trees to actually grow big enough, right?
To make a real dent in those carbon emissions
(03:31):
So what you're saying is that these nature-based solutions like planting trees they can be pretty risky, right? They can be yeah
Because there are so many things that are just outside of our control. Okay, so we've talked about additionality. We've talked about permanence
Yeah, what about the cost of these offsets, right because
You know a lot of the research you've shared has raised questions about where that money is actually going
(03:53):
Yeah, and whether it's actually funding real climate action. Yeah, that's a that's a really important piece of this puzzle
Mm-hmm, you know some estimates suggest that like 70% of the money that people spend on offsets can get eaten up by just
Administrative costs really yeah, so you have to wonder
Mm-hmm is that money actually going to the projects that need it right or is it just kind of disappearing into this black hole of
(04:18):
Bureaucracy so it sounds like it's not just about the quantity of offsets
But the quality and the impact they're actually having absolutely
We need to be we need to be really careful about where we're putting our money and and what projects we're supporting
Yeah, because otherwise, you know, we could be
Throwing good money after bad and just perpetuating a system. That's not actually delivering real climate solutions
(04:40):
Yeah, for sure, and I mean it's not just about the money, right, right some of the research you sent actually raises some pretty serious ethical
Questions about these projects too. We're talking about things like the potential for communities to be displaced
Yeah biodiversity loss and even just straight-up accusations of greenwashing. Yeah, you're absolutely right
(05:00):
Yeah, one of the most striking examples that you sent. Yeah involved this organization called Vera
They're actually the world largest certifier of rainforest carbon offsets, okay?
And there was this big investigation recently and they found that a huge chunk of these rainforest credits
Hmm might actually be worthless what they're calling phantom credit and some credit. Yeah, so basically credits that are being sold
(05:24):
okay, but
The the actual emission reductions that they're supposed to represent. They're just not there. So they're kind of like fake credits
Yeah, kind of oh, and what's really crazy is that big companies like Disney and Shell?
They've bought these credits. Wow, so if these big companies are getting it wrong. Yeah
Yeah
What hope is there for the rest of us? It's a it's a wake-up call for sure
(05:48):
Yeah, it just shows that we can't take these certifications at face value. We need to dig deeper
We need to demand more transparency from these offset providers. So okay big question then
Are all
Carbon offsets bad I
Wouldn't say all I mean, it's not a black-and-white issue. Okay. There are definitely some really good projects out there
(06:11):
Mm-hmm, but you have to be careful, right? Yeah, it's like anything else
There are good and bad apples right and the key is to do your homework
Okay before you invest in any particular project. So what should we be looking for?
Well, one of the most important things is third-party certification. Okay, you want to look for
projects that have been vetted by
(06:34):
reputable organizations, okay like the gold standard or the verified carbon standard got it these organizations
They have very strict criteria for
evaluating projects to make sure that they're actually delivering real
Merable and verifiable emission reductions. So it's not just about trusting
(06:54):
The company that's selling the offsets, right? It's about looking for that independent verification
Exactly, and it's not just about the carbon either. No, not at all. I mean, you know some of these certification programs
Yeah, they also look at other benefits things like biodiversity conservation or community development or improved air quality
So it's more like a holistic approach. Exactly. It's about finding projects that have these positive ripple effects that go beyond just carbon
(07:22):
Okay, so let's say we found a project that ticks all those boxes. It's certified. It's additional. It's permanent. It's ethical
Okay
How do we know that it's actually making a difference? Right? Yeah, how do we know that it's actually contributing to a reduction in global emissions?
Well, that's where the whole idea of a carbon budget comes in. Okay, you know scientists have basically calculated
(07:45):
How much carbon we can still emit globally while staying within these safe temperature limits?
Okay, and that budget is shrinking really fast, right?
So even if a company is offsetting all of its emissions
Yeah, it's still using up a portion of that global budget. Got it. So it's not like they're getting a free pass. No, not at all
Okay, it's more like they're buying a little bit of wiggle room while we work on the bigger problem of
(08:08):
Reducing emissions overall. So it sounds like offsets are more like a temporary solution. They should be yeah, okay
They should never be seen as the main solution, right? They should be a last resort
Got something you do only after you've done everything you can yeah to reduce your own emissions directly
It's like trying to lose weight by buying diet pills right instead of you know
(08:30):
Changing your eating habits exactly. Yeah, you can't offset your way out of the problem. You have to address the root cause
But what about those industries where it's really hard to reduce emissions directly, right?
Like you know things like aviation or heavy industry. Yeah, those are those are tough ones
And and honestly, it's gonna take time to develop and deploy those clean technologies
(08:54):
Right, we need to really decarbonize those sectors. So in the meantime offsets can maybe play a role potentially
Yeah, they can be a bridge. Okay while we work on those long-term solutions
Yeah, but it's really important that those companies are still actively pursuing those direct emission reduction strategies, right?
They can't just buy offsets and call it a day. So it's like a bull hand situation
(09:16):
Exactly. We need both the offsets and the direct reductions to really make progress. Yeah, okay
So the key message here seems to be that offsets can be a useful tool
But they're not a silver bullet, right?
We need to be smart about how we use them absolutely and we need to prioritize direct emission reductions above all else
I completely agree. All right, so that brings us to the big question, right? Okay?
(09:39):
Are carbon offsets ultimately a solution?
Or distraction?
That's a tough one and I think the answer really depends on how they're used if they're used
Responsibly as part of a comprehensive climate strategy, right? Then yeah, they can definitely contribute to progress
Okay, but if they're seen as a way to avoid making real changes, yeah
(10:01):
Then they become a dangerous distraction and that's where the potential for greenwashing comes in, right? Exactly
You know companies could be tempted to use offsets to make themselves look good
Yeah, without actually addressing the root causes of their emissions exactly and that's why it's so important for consumers to
Be aware of this dynamic, right? You know, we need to demand more transparency
(10:24):
From these companies about their climate actions. Yeah, absolutely. We need to dig deeper ask questions and hold them accountable for sure
so as
We've been talking about all this
One thing that's really stood out to me is the importance of innovation
Yeah, you know, we've talked a lot about the potential downsides and risks, right?
(10:45):
But you've also shared some really exciting research about new approaches to carbon removal. Yeah, there's some really cool stuff happening
Yeah, absolutely like one example that I thought was really fascinating is this project called carbon casting. Oh, yeah
That's a great one from a company called graphite, right? Yeah, and
They're basically taking
Dried biomass like leftover wood and stuff and they're burying it underground. Yeah, it's like giant Tupperware for carbon
(11:11):
Yeah, exactly. And what I thought was really interesting is that the science behind it seems pretty solid
It does. Yeah, they're saying that this could lock away carbon for incredibly long periods of time potentially
Yeah, like essentially removing it from the atmosphere for good. That's the idea
But even with a solution like this that sounds like forever storage
(11:34):
Doesn't the question of permanence still kind of linger?
It does it does and I think we need to be cautious about making any claims about forever, right?
You know geologically speaking forever is a really really long time
Yeah, for sure
And you know, we haven't been testing this method for long enough to say for certain how it will hold up over centuries or millennia
(11:55):
Right what happens if there are shifts in the earth's crust or if water seeps into the storage site
Mm-hmm, you know, these are all things that we need to think about. Yeah, absolutely
So even with these cutting-edge technologies, yeah, we can't just assume that forever storage is a guaranteed outcome
Exactly. We need to be cautious
We need to collect data and make sure that these solutions are actually working the way they're supposed to
(12:17):
I couldn't agree more and and that applies to all types of carbon offsets, right?
Not just these new and innovative approaches, right?
You know, we need to move away from making these vague promises about future emission reductions
Yeah, and focus on building a system that's based on solid evidence and accountability
Okay, so we've covered a lot of ground here
(12:38):
additionality
permanence cost
ethics
Innovation a lot. Yeah, it's a big topic. Yeah, it's clear that carbon offsets are complex. They are they have both potential and pitfalls
Absolutely, so as we're kind of wrapping up this part of our deep dive here
What's the most important thing for our listener to remember about carbon offsets?
(12:59):
You know, I think the biggest takeaway is that offsets should never be seen as a silver bullet
They can be a useful tool as part of a broader climate strategy, but they should always be a last resort
Okay, something that you do only after you've done everything you can to
Reduce your own emissions directly, right? Like we were saying earlier. You can't just offset your way out of the problem
(13:22):
Exactly, you have to address the root causes. Yeah, the real solution lies in
transforming our energy systems
Adopting cleaner technologies and fundamentally changing the way we live and consume so offsets can help
But they can't replace that hard work
Exactly of decarbonizing our economies and our societies and I think
(13:44):
As we move forward, it's so important for all of us. Yeah individuals businesses policymakers
To be informed and to be engaged absolutely and to be really critical consumers of information about carbon offsets
For sure. We can't just accept claims at face value. We have to ask questions
Demand transparency and hold those in power accountable for their actions
(14:08):
I think that's a great message to to kind of keep in mind as we move forward
Yeah, and as we keep exploring this topic because there's a lot more to unpack here
Definitely
So we were talking about how you know, we need to be really careful about where we're putting our money
And what projects we're supporting and and you know, we have to be careful about greenwashing
For sure and and making sure that these offsets are actually doing what they claim to be doing
(14:31):
Absolutely, and and you know one of the the things that's really important is to look beyond just the carbon reductions themselves
Okay, you know think about the bigger picture. Okay. What are the other impacts of these projects? Yeah, like what?
Well, for example, some offset projects. They can actually help to create jobs in local communities. That's great. Yeah
(14:51):
So it's not just about the environment, right? It's about the people too. Yeah, and and some projects can also help to protect
Biodiversity, okay or improve air quality. So it's really about finding those projects that have these positive ripple effects
Exactly. Yeah, it's not just about checking a box. It's about making a real difference. Okay, so let's say we found a project that checks all those boxes
(15:16):
Certified it's additional. It's permanent. It's ethical. Okay
How do we know that it's actually contributing to reducing global emissions, right? Yeah, how do we sit this into the bigger picture?
Well, that's where the idea of a carbon budget comes in. Okay
Scientists have basically calculated how much carbon we can still emit globally
While staying within these safe temperature limits. Okay, and that budget is shrinking really fast, right?
(15:41):
So even if a company is offsetting all of its emissions
Yeah, it's still using up a portion of that global budget. So it's not like they're getting a free pass. No, not at all
It's more like they're buying a little bit of time
While we work on the bigger problem of reducing emissions overall. So offsets are kind of like a temporary solution. They should be. Yeah
They should never be seen as the main solution. Right. They should be a last resort
(16:05):
Got it. Something you do only after you've done everything you can to reduce your own emissions directly
It's like trying to lose weight by buying diet pills, right instead of, you know, changing your eating habits
Exactly. Yeah, you can't just offset your way out of the problem. You have to address the root cause
Okay, but what about those industries where it's really hard to reduce emissions directly, right?
(16:28):
Like aviation or heavy industry. Yeah, those are those are tough nuts to crack. Yeah
And honestly, it's going to take time
To develop and deploy the technologies that we need to really decarbonize those sectors
So in the meantime offsets can maybe help
They can potentially play a role. Yeah, okay
They can be a bridge while we work on those longer term solutions
(16:51):
Got it
But it's really important that those companies are still actively pursuing those direct emission reduction strategies
You know, they can't just buy offsets and call it a day. So it's kind of a boat hand situation. Exactly. Yeah
We need both the offsets and the direct reductions to really make progress. Okay
So the key takeaway here is that offsets can be a tool
But they're not a silver bullet, right?
(17:13):
We have to be smart about how we use them for sure and we need to prioritize direct emission reductions above all else
I totally agree. Okay. So now I think the big question is okay are carbon offsets
Ultimately a solution or distraction. That is the million dollar question, isn't it? Yeah
And I think the answer really depends on how they're used. Okay, you know, if they're used responsibly as
(17:37):
Part of a comprehensive climate strategy, right? Then yeah, they can contribute to progress
Okay, but if they're seen as a way to just avoid making real changes
Yeah, then they become a dangerous distraction, right and that's where this whole issue of greenwashing comes in exactly
You know companies might be tempted to use offsets
Yeah, make themselves look good without actually addressing the root causes of their emissions
(17:58):
Exactly. And that's why it's so important for consumers to be aware of this and to really demand more transparency
Yeah from these companies. Absolutely
We need to dig deeper. Yeah ask tough questions and hold them accountable. Couldn't agree more. Okay, so
You know, we've been talking about these offsets as kind of a
A tool in the toolbox. Yeah, but you know, there are a lot of other things that we need to be doing, right?
(18:24):
Absolutely to address climate change. It's not just about offsets
It's about transforming our energy systems. It's about changing the way we live and consume, right?
You know, it's about a fundamental shift. Yeah, absolutely our relationship with the planet
And and I think you know, one of the things that's really exciting is that there's
So much innovation happening in this space. Oh, yeah, absolutely
(18:44):
There are all these new technologies and approaches emerging
That can really help us to reduce emissions like, you know, we were talking earlier about carbon casting. Yeah, that's a great example
That's one example, but there are so many others, right, you know, people are working on things like direct air capture
Carving sequestration all sorts of really cool stuff. It's amazing to see
You know the the ingenuity and the creativity that people are bringing to this challenge
(19:10):
So even though the situation can feel pretty dire sometimes. Yeah, I think it's important to remember that there's still hope
I agree
You know, we have the tools we have the knowledge
Yeah, and we have the ingenuity to solve this problem. We just need the will
Yeah, absolutely. We need the political will. We need the social will
We need to come together and actually make these changes happen
(19:33):
So I guess the the big question for our listener is what can they do? Yeah, what can we all do? Yeah
Well, I think first and foremost, we need to educate ourselves. Okay, we need to understand the science of climate change
We need to understand the solutions. Yeah, and we need to understand the challenge. Yes. Once we have that knowledge
Then we can start to make informed choices. Okay, so educate ourselves and then what then we need to take action
(19:58):
And that can take many different forms. You know, it could be
Making changes in our own lives like reducing our energy consumption. Okay, or choosing more sustainable products, right?
It could be supporting businesses that are committed to climate action
It could be advocating for policy changes. You know, there are so many different ways to get involved
(20:21):
So it's not just about individual actions. It's about systemic change as well. Exactly. We need both
Right. We need individual action and we need systemic change. Okay, so educate ourselves
Take action and what else?
And I think most importantly
We need to stay hopeful. Yeah, you know, it's easy to get discouraged when you look at the scale of the problem
(20:42):
But we can't give up. We have to believe that we can solve this
Absolutely, and we have to keep fighting for a better future
And if anyone's feeling inspired to learn more check out the you read we write blog
There's tons of info there and practical advice too. Thanks for joining us on the deep dive everyone. We'll see you next time
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