838 · Walt Disney Imagineering Chief Creative Officer Bruce Vaughn on the Future of the Disney Parks - WDW Radio: Your Guide to the Walt Disney World, Disneyland, Disney Cruise and More Disney Magic!

Episode Transcript
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(00:48):
Over the past few weeks, I'vebeen incredibly fortunate and grateful
to take you behind the scenesat Walt Disney Imagineering, giving
you an inside look at thepeople like Zolt Horme and the place
and process. During a veryspecial tour of imagineering that
I was invited to share lastweek. And in both of those episodes
and the video that I sharedfrom inside Walt Disney Imagineering,

(01:10):
which you are normally notallowed to do, we explored the incredible
history and legacy ofimagineering. And this week we look
to the future and to thevision of what's next. And who better
to explore that than theperson at the very top? And my very
special guest this week isBruce Vaughn, the chief Creative
officer of Walt DisneyImagineering. And what was supposed

(01:32):
to be a quote unquotetraditional interview very quickly
and naturally evolved intosomething more personal, candid and,
I think, inspiring. And I amso grateful that I hit record when
I did, because what followedis a rare, honest, one on one conversation
about the people, the. Thepurpose and the path forward for
imagineering. So I'm excitedthis week for you to come with me,

(01:54):
not just inside Imagineering,but inside the heart and mind of
the person, helping guide thenext generation of magic and magic
makers. Hello, my friend andwelcome to WDW Radio, your guide
to the Disney parks, moviesand experiences around the world.
I am Lou Mongello and this isshow number 838. And whether it is
your first time here or you'vebeen with me since the very beginning.

(02:17):
Welcome. Welcome back. Welcomehome. Because for more than 20 years,
I've shared my love of Disneythrough the podcast, live video events,
cruises and our incrediblecommunity. And I am so grateful to
you that you're here becauseyou're not just a listener, you are
part of the WW Radio family.Couple of quick things before we
dive in. Come be part of thecommunity and conversation over in

(02:38):
the WW clubhouse atwww.radio.com clubhouse. Join me
this and every Wednesday at7:30pm Eastern for WW Radio Live
on Facebook and YouTube. Andmake sure you turn on notifications
cause you never know when orfrom where I might be live next.
I'm gonna skip the Disneytrivia contest question this week,
give you an extra week toanswer last week's as I'm gonna be

(02:58):
traveling to Hollywood andSouthern California again, including
Walt Disney Imagineering onour next www Adventures by Disney
Trip. You can learn more aboutupcoming events, group cruises and
trips over on the eventspage@www.com. please connect and
chat with me on social I amLou Mongello on Facebook and LinkedIn
and don't forget to sign upfor my free weekly email newsletter@www.com

(03:20):
Newsletter and when you do, Iwill send you a free copy of my 102
Things to Do At Least Once inWalt Disney World Book and if you
want to turn what you loveinto what you do, if you are a creator,
an entrepreneur orsolopreneur, please join me this
October in Walt Disney Worldfor my Momentum Weekend Workshop,
a Hands On 50 person 4 day 1room event to help you build real

(03:43):
momentum in your business andbrand. You can learn more and get
your tickets@lumangello.comMomentum but don't wait. We are more
than 70% sold out, but you canstill take advantage of the $100
off early bird Special goingon now. And if you want to bring
a little bit of Disney magicto your next event, conference, brand
or team, I'm a keynote speakeron storytelling, customer experience

(04:04):
and creating memorable momentsinspired by the Disney parks and
leadership lessons from WaltDisney that are practical and tactical
and you can put practice rightaway. You can learn more. Book me
to speak or set up a call withme@lou mongello.com and when you're
ready to book your next Disneyvacation, please visit my friends
over@m MouseFanTravel.com forcompletely free expert and personal

(04:25):
planning, just like I havetrusted for more than 17 years. And
if you enjoy the show, and Ihope that you do, please rate, review
and more importantly, share itwith a friend. So sit back, relax
and enjoy this week's episodeof the WDW Radio Show. As I teased

(04:49):
a little bit during thisepisode's intro, this week's show
is a little different and Ithink in the best possible way because
when I sat down with BruceVaughn, the Chief Operating Officer
of Walt Disney Imagineering, Iwas prepared to do what I've done
literally hundreds of timesover the past 20 years on the podcast,
which is conduct a very wellresearched, prepared and structured

(05:14):
interview with a narrative arcand a journey. I wanted to take Bruce
on and questions that I, youknow, take a lot of time and care
to craft. But what happenedwas unexpected and I think a little
fortuitous because ourconversation when Bruce walked in
the door just started flowingnaturally, candidly and very authentically.

(05:37):
And I quickly realized thiswas not going to be a typical interview.
It was something that was muchmore personal, more reflective and
I think more revealing. So Idid the only thing I could think
to do, which was press recordas quickly as I realized this was
happening. And I'm so verygrateful that I did because what
you are about to hear isclearly a very unscripted one on

(05:59):
one conversation that I thinkbrings out not just Bruce Vaughn's
brilliant mind and visionaryleadership, but I think his humanity
and his humility and his humorand really I think his deep passion
for imagineering and moreimportantly, the people behind it.
And we talk about everythingfrom legacy to leadership, the power

(06:21):
of emotion and sharedexperiences. I think what it really
means to be an imagineer. Andwe're imagineering and we as guests
are headed next. So pleasecome with me as we go inside imagineering
and inside the heart and mindof the man who is helping lead it
into the future. So I inviteyou to pull up a chair and sit with

(06:43):
me and Bruce in the secret. Inever even knew it was there. Offices
of Walt Disney Imagineeringand join our conversation.
We wanted to put a little.Cause, you know, when I got back,
we realized that many of theimagineers had only been here for
like five years or so and Ihad been going seven. So it hit me
that they didn't have a real.And that meant they probably joined

(07:05):
around Covid, so they didn'thave a really strong sense of the
culture or the history.Because as we know, during COVID
it's tough to really have thekind of shared culture that imagineering
is really so strong with. Sowe wanted to use the halls to sort
of tell the story. So as youwalk through, you'd see the legends,
you'd see the history of howthe work was done and just celebrate

(07:27):
the various expertise weweren't done. There's a whole hallway
of music, music that we haveto still do and all this kind of
stuff and the writers, thesteps going up to the writers have
the sort of famous lines, thebackside of water and all that stuff.
But you know, it should be afun place and celebrate who we are.
73 years, pretty long time.
Yeah, it's not lost on me, youknow, walking in there, who has sort

(07:48):
of walked those halls before.I love how you embrace the history
and the legacy and nostalgiawhile still working on what you're
looking to do.
What'S next, and that iswhat's key and did you get to see
Magical? Well, the Walt DisneyMagical Life? Oh, you did? Yeah.
Yeah. What'd you think? Iloved it. It's amazing, right? And
what I. What it reallyreminded me when, you know, came

(08:09):
back and it was underwayalready, so. But Tom Fitzgerald,
you know, started showing methe script and the film, and it's
just. Just what a remarkable.I mean, talk about an entrepreneur
and a risk taker and fearless,you know, and failed and, you know,
just got right back up. And,you know, that is a spirit. We're
talking a lot in Imagineeringabout this entrepreneurial mindset.
It's like, you know, we'regreat at what we do and we've done

(08:30):
it for 70, but it doesn't meanyou should rest on your laurels.
That guy wouldn't. If he wasalive today, God knows what he'd
be doing. You know what Imean? And it's so inspirational.
I'm also happy that we're a100-year-old company and we still
honor our founder. Thatdoesn't always happen, and we should.
And that's what I. For thosewho love him already, I think that
film will be a great reminderof just how amazing he was. And then

(08:52):
I think for people who don't,it should hopefully be a point of
inspiration. But I've beenusing that a lot with the imagineer
saying, this is it, man. Just.Just rekindle this spirit with, you
know, like you said, an eyetowards the world we live in, which
is becoming, you know, it'scompletely different than what it
was. But everybody wants.We're still about emotion. Our product

(09:13):
is emotion. At the end of theday, that's all there is to it. Yes,
we build incredible things andput on shows and do fireworks and
drones, but at the end of theday, we're all about, you know, a
certain set of emotions thatwe want people to feel. And fortunately
for us, they're the best kindof emotions. Because Walt was absolutely
intent that through design,you could design happiness. Through
design, you can bring out thebest in people. That's why he was

(09:35):
probably going to go on toEpcot was going to be an actual city,
because I think he was totallyconvinced that from his experiments
with the parks that, look howeverybody behaves. And it's true.
Today you watch people, ifthose same people crossed each other
in any street in a city, theywouldn't smile at each other, be
friendly, help each other,hold the door, whatever it is. And
it's all because of theenvironment and the design. And it's

(10:00):
Pretty remarkable. And we'revery fortunate that we get to work
on that. Of all the things Iwas saying.
To Nicole, too, I think whenpeople go to that attraction, which
I almost. Hate calling it anattraction because it's something
else.
I agree with you.
You have to take a holisticview of it and what it represents,
not just having himrepresented in that figure. But I

(10:20):
think you're right.Introducing him to a new generation
of people who, you know, theremight be a little bit of a disconnect
between Walt the human beingand the father and the man and the.
A lot of people. It's a studioname, I think. You know what I mean?
And it's so much more thanthat. And it's a good reminder. I
mean, I did get. You saw theJohn hench, I'm sure. You know, I
was lucky enough in the firstyears I worked there, John was still

(10:41):
there. So not only did you getto, you know, mentor with Marty,
who had, you know, we see,touched the cloth of Walt, but John
was phenomenal. He was likethe philosopher, you know, and he
had this office upstairs, andhe wore the cravat, and he was amazing.
And when I finally got thenerve to go up and just say. And
he was so welcoming, and itwas just. I mean, because, you know,

(11:01):
he hung with Salvador Daliand, you know, he read poems and
he. But he was just like, oh,this is the kind of people Walt surrounded
him with, you know, himselfwith, this is what you do, and it's
still there. And this is whatI love. And he was one of the main
reasons, because, you know, Iheard you used to be a lawyer. Yeah,
I went to law school for threemonths. Did you hear that? So I dropped
out. I found law school veryinteresting. My dad was a lawyer,

(11:23):
so. But a great man, by theway. I loved him. But then he told
me he didn't even want to be alawyer. I was like, great, dad. Thanks.
But, you know, because I justgot enamored with entertainment when
I saw Star wars at 12 yearsold, and that just changed me forever.
And I just wanted to be acreator like George Lucas or Spielberg.
And so when I ended up atDisney, I had never been to a theme

(11:44):
park. I mean, when I became animagineer, I didn't even know what
the word was. So it was veryweird for me. But as I got more and
more immersed into what theproduct is and what the process is
and the people, it began toreally become like, oh, wow, this
is incredible. And John was abig piece of that because I didn't
realize you hear theme park,you hear this stuff. But there's

(12:07):
a deep philosophy. And I thinkJoe Rody's the closest thing to that
now. You know what I mean? IfI call him Professor Rhodey, right?
We still have him as anadvisor mentoring people because
he's so good and passionate,but that's the way it was. And it's
just. You realize that thereis something noble. Not to overblow
it, but there's somethingnoble about what we do when we do
it right. Because it really tobe a source of joy, to be a source

(12:28):
of shared experience. And I'ma very optimistic person. So I was
telling Monica this a littleearlier. Even Covid, I try to find
silver linings. And I thinkone of them that I can point to is
that we all came out of that.I think appreciating just how amazing

(12:49):
and valuable sharedexperiences are in the real world.
Irl, it's like, you know whatI mean? It really is important, and
you want to do them in placeswhere you can just let go and be
happy. And we're one of theplaces maybe several places around
the world. And what I love iswhen I came back, I left pretty much

(13:10):
opening day of Shanghai when Itook my little hiatus. And I came
back seven years later. And tosee how mature all the parks are,
to see how everythingeverywhere. What really resonated
me was wherever we go and wemodify slightly to reflect the culture
and the behaviors. But it'sreally slight when you really think
about it. Wherever we go, thehumans act the same. They respond

(13:36):
the same way. And that'spretty amazing, you know what I mean?
When you can see the same sortof joy and desire to hang out together.
And it's just opening thatchild within everybody when you do
that, I think the world's abetter place.
Yeah, Covid definitely let usall recognize and sort of remember,
maybe not take as much forgranted just how special and important

(13:56):
this place is, not just to youguys, but obviously to us as guests.
Well, I'll tell you, that'ssomething I also remind every imagineer.
It's like. Because oftenimagineers are also huge fans of
all this stuff. But we'redoing it for the guests now. It's
great when it can resonatethat exactly what you want is exactly
what a guest want. But at theend of the day, we are the designers,
and we've got to reflect whatwe know will resonate with the guests.

(14:21):
And it isn't always what theguests want, because you don't always
know. I can't tell a chef, aMichelin star chef, what to cook
for me because it's like, theygotta dream that up. But when they
get it right, you're like,whoa, didn't expect. This is amazing.
And we're the same way. So itis something that when we come to
work, I always remind this isfor the guests, not for us. And again,
if that happens to coincide,great. But it doesn't matter. But

(14:46):
we also have to evolve. Andyou brought that up. It's one of
the hardest parts of the jobis you move something. You know what
I mean? And it's like, ah. AndI know why this actually happened.
Once we moved to. I didoperations, moved to churro code
at Disneyland once. Many,many, many, many, many years ago.
Literally was a churro code onthe hub. They moved it, like, around
the corner and it was as if itwas invisible. They couldn't find

(15:07):
it. And they were so angrybecause they were like, no, because
it's ritual. It literally isritual. And I have places like this.
I love new things. But I also,especially because I travel so much
for work when I go home and Ihave a house in Sonoma, but I live
in la. I go to the same placesall the time. You know what I mean?
Because they know me and Iwant the same thing. And God forbid

(15:29):
they don't have the thing onthe menu, you know what I mean? So
I get it now. At the sametime, I am when they happily surprise
me with, like, introducesomething new and it's actually as
good or better is what youstrive for. You go, okay, this is
fine. You're taking me on ajourney and you respect the fact

(15:49):
that I have so much passionabout this. But that is something
we face a lot as imagineers islike, okay, we're going to move this.
And we know it's a toughorder, is to deliver something that
is going to be hopefullybetter in its own way.
Right. We, I think, implicitlytrust imagineering, but I always
say, if you want to makeDisney fans lose their minds, tell

(16:11):
them you're going to change something.
Yeah, right.
Because you have to sort of.You have that delicate balance of,
you know, how do we replacesomething that, you know, means so
much to somebody?
Yes, that's right.
But for something that, youknow, is not just for a next generation
of. Fans and their children.
That's right.
But is going to be animportant improvement on the overall
guest experience. We may ormay not be, you know, talking about

(16:31):
Frontier Land.
I have a list I'm kidding. No,no, actually. And most of it's great.
Most of it's great. And Ithink, you know, and again, I always.
You know, some people get veryfrustrated internally in the company
stuff. I see it as passion.I'm like, it's coming from a good
place. The ones I care aboutare the ones who come from a place
of passion. And, you know, andwe try. We're doing a few things.

(16:52):
I mean, you know, we try toget out there. People want to kind
of get visions of what we'redoing. We're trying to take them
on the journey of. I alwayssay, the early phases of our projects,
especially the big attractionsand lands. That is not for the faint
of heart, because the ideasare going to change a lot. And you
cannot fall in love withsomething. It'll be like. So when

(17:13):
we release images, like on D23or something, everybody's nervous
because we're, like,imprinted. That's what you're building,
kind of where we're going. Youknow what I mean? And when we try
to be careful so that whateverwe deliver has, again, the emotional
impact of that. But don't goin. And I try to try more and more
to say, let's create somethingthat is. So if you saw the Abu Dhabi

(17:33):
images, it's sort of like, Idon't know, does that. Wait, wait,
could that be. You know what Imean? But it implies a scale. It
implies you can begin to feel,what am I gonna. How is this gonna
make me feel? That's what wetry to do in the beginning because
it is a complex process andit's a complex product. And, you
know, and luckily, I haveentertainment under me as well. So

(17:57):
that's our nimble, quick, getout there, do things in shorter time
frame stuff. But these biggerthings, three years down the road,
everything, oh, wait, thischanged. You know what I mean? But
we also love the idea oftaking the fans along on the journey
because it's fun. And so wejust try to keep that message out

(18:17):
there that just go with us.You know what I mean? Go with us.
This is early, trust me. Thereare imagineers who are a thousand
times more passionate becausethey kind of knew what it could have
been. But it's just likefilmmakers or anybody, what's left
on the cutting room floor, theguests will never know. The audience
will never know. But theystill feel for it. They're like,
oh, that would have been agreat scene. But it doesn't matter
if it came together great. Soit's something that we're always

(18:39):
playing with. With Monica.It's like, okay, what can we release?
What can we not? I don't knowwhat you feel about the. We call
it imagineering YouTube stuffthat we're doing. I mean, I think
that kind of opening up andallowing in that way is really fun
because it is an excitingplace. It really is. I love every
day I wake up. I mean, Icouldn't be happier to be back. I

(19:01):
wasn't going to. I had nointention of coming back. It was
Josh d' Amaro sort of calledme and invited me back and said,
this is going to be the mostamazing time in imagineering history.
And I said, I think I kind ofdid that the first time. But he was
right, it is. And I knew Iwould enjoy it, but I didn't think
I would completely love it.The way I do it is just. And part

(19:24):
of it might be having gone outand done other things, startups and
things like this, and learneda lot and evolved. A part of it might
be 60 this year. So you justget older and wiser and appreciate
things differently and youhone your craft, too. So that makes
it good. But it is just soexciting right now. I mean, just
the amount of exciting workand the variety of work. I'm someone

(19:47):
who loves to switch gears allday long, you know what I mean? So
it's kind of the perfect jobfor me because on one hand I'll be
talking about a cruise ship,and the other hand I'll be talking
about a parade and, you know,some attraction somewhere, and it'll
be in China and it'll be here,whatever. So it's super, super fun.
So a couple of quick thingsthat. I just took from what you said.
First of all, I love the factthat you are aware of the granular

(20:09):
stuff, the churro cart beingmoved not so far removed from it
that you recognize that that'simportant to people. You know, small
things that change areimportant people. And you keep talking
about emotion. And I love thefact that you use the word love and
feelings because that's whatthis is all about. A lot of executives
sometimes shy away from usingterms like that, but that's why we

(20:31):
feel the way we do about thisplace. That's why it was so sad for
us when the parks closed forCovid. How special was to be able
to come back and why, youknow, for better or for worse, the
reactions that you see onlinedo come from a place of passion and
love for these things.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And by theway, I, you know, for me, you know,
I happen to be executive bychance, I guess, because I've never,

(20:54):
never had these kinds ofambitions. I love creating things.
I love working in teams tocreate. In fact, the part of this
job that I can relate to, thisis the only time I'll compare myself
at all to Walt Disney and thencompare myself to him. But it's something
he said that I can relate to,is what I'll say. And it's in the
show, when he was asked, doyou draw Mickey? No, I don't draw
Mickey. No, I don't do that.I'm like a little bee that goes around

(21:15):
politics. That is my job. Itliterally is like, I could relate.
I went, that is exactly it. Noone idea is mine. In fact, I spend
most of my time on the onesthat need help, the ones that are
going, good, great. You gotit. And what I did learn about myself,
though, is that I am able tosort of identify, okay, this is where
you're just, let's get back ontrack here, and let's just do this.

(21:35):
And it's super fun. I do, youknow, and I love this, and I wouldn't
change it for the world. I domiss because in my early days, I
worked at the R and D group,and we did a bunch of cool experimental
stuff. Lucky the Dinosaur, theMuppet mobile lab Turtle Doc would
crash, which started as aphotophone, would stitch and all
this kind of stuff. And thosewere small, nimble teams that put
things together. You up allnight, you're hanging out, you're

(21:56):
not worried about anythingelse going on, and you're just focused.
And that is, like, one of thefunnest things you can ever do in
your life. Right now, I get tosee everything, and I get to touch
all the teams. And that'ssuper fun, too, but it's different.
And I guess if I didn't getthe reinforcement, and if other executives

(22:17):
didn't tell me, no, this iswhat you should be doing, I'd probably
be like, I want to go. Butthere's a certain point where you
go, this is my destiny. Thisis what I should be doing. And I'm
not complaining, because it isawesome, but it is interesting. But
there's no more greater joyfor me than seeing an imagineering
team have those breakthroughs,helping them have those breakthroughs,
where you just know we've gota few projects going on right now

(22:38):
where we've crossed overcertain milestones, and you just
sit in some combination of thestorytelling, whether it be the music,
it might be just A certainthing, a scene or special effect
or something, you go, oh,there's. This is going to be great.
I cannot wait for this to getin front of the guests. You know
what I mean? And you go, thisis going to be like. Because I love
magic, I love illusions. Andto have that moment where you just

(22:59):
know. Even the greatestskeptic has suspended disbelief because
they're like, I don't knowwhat's happening. This is awesome.
And that's what kids are. Kidswillingly suspend disbelief. They
take a cardboard box and makesomething cool out of it. Adults,
we get skeptical, we getjaded. And when we get the whole
family feeling that way, fromthe grandparents down to the little
kids, it's that to me. Andthere's moments, it could be in a

(23:20):
parade, there's nighttimeshows where you look at and go, this
is going to be great. Theyjust are not going to see a comment.
And it's going to be amazingand it's going to be repeatable.
And that's the big joy for me.I mean, after this. I recently restarted
our illusions lab because Ibelieve at the end of the day, emotion
is our product and perceptionis one of our biggest tools. We use

(23:43):
a lot of big technology, andwhen you're doing a Rise of the Resistance
or a Tower of Terror, you haveto have big machines and big technology.
But it can be just aseffective. You know, look, it must
have been what Walt and theoriginal Imagineers felt when they
first did Pepper's Ghost forthe Haunted Mansion, because it's
like they're going to believethere's ghosts. You know what I mean?
And it's just so cool when youget those things. And we still do

(24:06):
a lot of that. And one of theways we. Special effects and illusions,
because I used to do that as acameraman, which is different because
it's film and you can playwith that. I think that is so core.
And I'm going to go visit theone here. We have one in LA and one
here. And that's one of myfavorite moments, because it's just
the minds that could takesomething, something small, whatever.
But when you're looking at itgoing, wait a minute, what is that?

(24:27):
How are you doing that? Andusually it's the simplest thing,
so it is that combination. Andyou're right, it is the littlest
details, too. In fact, what Ifell in love with Disney was actually
the attention to detail.
Because you were not a Disneyperson. As a.
No, my father never took me.My mother, too. They just, you know,

(24:48):
I Watched the Walt Disney. Therepeats of the Sunday Magical World,
Wonderful Walt Disney onSunday. I forget there was two of
them. And so that was it. Wenever went to the parks. We never
did anything until I became animagineer. The company I worked for
got acquired and I was told,you're an imagineer. I was an English
major. So actually I literallysaid this to the HR person. I said,
I'm an English major. That isnot a word. She said, you don't know

(25:11):
what this is? I said, no, Idon't know. Now, mind you, it was
secret back then. It was sortof a secret secret, you know, it's
more of a secret thing. But soI had never. My first time I went
was alone at 27 years old. Itold this story. It was so funny.
They flew me to California tojoin Imagineering during the two
week orientation where youlearned all these words like berm
and all this stuff. I have toadmit, it was very interesting. I

(25:33):
was like, wow, this is really.They put a lot of thinking into this
thing. And they said, andinevitably you get the question,
what's your favoriteattraction? I said, I don't know.
I've never been to a place.I'm going to the park. So they did.
This is crazy because, youknow, there is like Disneyland right
down the road. Nope. They flewme here, I guess because they wanted
me to see the big one. I haveno idea. So my first was Walt Disney
World, 1993. Just walkingaround, you know, with a list that

(25:58):
Tom Fitzgerald and Marty hadmade saying, you got to do this,
you got to do this, got to dothis, and mind blown. This is a very
true story. I literally call.I was one of the lucky people in
the world, I've learned, thathad a great childhood, great parents.
And I did call them.Literally. I was at the Wilderness
Lodge. And in those days, youpicked up the phone and called and
I said, mom and dad, you werealmost the perfect parents. And they

(26:19):
said, what happened? I said,if you had taken me when I was 9
or 10 years old on Peter Pan,I would have blown my mind. You know
what I mean? And it blew mymind at 27, because I could picture
what it must be like to be akid on that thing where you think
you fly out this window andthere's London. I was like, oh, my
God. And again, there was novideo of this stuff or anything.
So I didn't know. I was like,what am I getting onto a little pirate

(26:41):
ship? And it was like, oh, myGod, we're flying over London. Look
you know, just like, holy crap.
But you were on the journeyyou. Were supposed to be on, right?
That's right.
And I love the, you know, aslong as you're talking about Walt
and some of the parallels, Ithink one, you know, like Walt, he
took his artists and animatorsand said, you're going to be an imagineer.
And they said, what the heck'san imagineer? But you're a storyteller,

(27:01):
right? You're a storyteller.And I love the fact that you take
sort of a filmic approach tostorytelling. This like they do this
immersive, multi dimensionalnow, even with, you know, the greater
blessing of additionaltechnology being able to tell these
very personal stories forevery guest that walks through the
gate.
I've often been told by otherimagineers that the fact that I didn't

(27:23):
grow up always wanting to bean imagineer has brought a perspective
that allows me to probablystand more in the guest shoes than
even they could because it'swhat they wanted to create. Not that
they'd be wrong, but I, Idefinitely came in where it was like,
okay, those are the guests,these are the creators, and how do
we bring this together? Andthey're probably right. That little

(27:47):
critical distance, I wouldcall it, has allowed me to always.
We create motion. And I want amotion in the product. But someone
at some point does have tobring a little adult into the room.
Because one of the things Ialso know about imagineering, I half
jokingly, only half jokinglysay that the most important piece
of furniture in my office isthe couch. Because there's a lot
of, of therapy going on andyou want it to be. It is not a problem.

(28:11):
A creative organization. AndI'm not just talking about the design.
Everybody there is creative.Our lawyers are. I mean, it's just
like everybody is therebecause they feel the same way about
what I want to do with mylife. And this is the product I want
to create. So they all havethis innovative, creative side. And
to do the product we do, Ineed those teams to mostly be in
what I call child mode. Youhave to know what it feels like to

(28:33):
be a kid, otherwise we're notgoing to succeed. And I think Walt
said it was a nine year old orsomething. He had a specific age.
Everybody has a nine year old.I think that's what it was. I probably
got that wrong. But it's, youknow, it's that. And that does mean
though, if people are in childmode, you're going to get a tantrum,
you're going to get emotionalswings. You're going to get, you
know, passion, you know, and,you know, a big part of my job is

(28:57):
guiding that back. And, youknow, I call it. You know, a lot
of imagineers are like lasers.They're very, very good, pointed
in the right direction,incredibly effective. Not they're
going to spin around and blindpeople. You know what I mean? It's
just going to be crazy. Sopart of my job is focus the laser.
Let's get over there. Focusthe laser here, let's get over there.
And when you do that, they dothings that I certainly couldn't

(29:18):
do, that probably very fewpeople in the world could do. But
there is the need for a senseof guidance. Otherwise, honestly,
if they weren't superemotional, super passionate, and
able to tap into this childmode, we just wouldn't have to product
we have. It doesn't mean it'sjuvenile. It just means it evokes
that wonder that you have as achild about the world.

(29:39):
And I love the fact thatyou've spoken about the power of
reverse mentoring. It's notjust a leader teaching somebody new
that comes in, but theirwillingness to learn.
That is super important. Wehave the Great Benefit again. 73
years, and one of the firstthings I did when I came back and
actually Justin Warren askedme to do this, I probably would have

(29:59):
done anyway, but he said,let's get a lot of people retired
when I was away who were the.And it was like, let's bring them
back under some sort ofadvisory thing and make sure they
mentor, not to do theprojects. We need the next generations
of imagineers to do theprojects, because that's how you
cut your teeth and that's howyou learn. But the wisdom is super
important. And I do agree withyou, the reverse mentoring is something

(30:20):
that actually came. PeterGruber, you know who Peter Gruber
is, from Batman, all this kindof stuff. I met him through ucla.
I used to teach at ucla,immersive design and stuff. And he
was teaching there, too, aproducer program. And we just hit
it off, and he became amentor. But he's the one who taught
me that, because I actuallywent to him and I said, I want you
to mentor me. You're verywise. He's actually very clever.
And he said, we're going toreverse mentor. You're going to mentor

(30:43):
me, and I'm going to mentoryou. And I actually said. I said,
what do I got to give you? Hegoes, you're young. You have a different
lens. You grew up differentlyfrom me. And I Need to not just become
some old guy. I was like, wow,this is so cool. So I began to implement
that early on. I would grab ayoung audio ASA club, who's actually
this young guy from ucla. Ibrought him in as an intern. And

(31:05):
then we had this older guywho's now retired, Steve Kadar, who
was an audio guy. And ASA atthat time had already grown up using
devices and pads, and Stevewas still up on a board calling shots
and doing all this stuff. AndASA just came to me and he said,
I don't know, it was 20 orsomething. And he said, you know,
we could run the whole thingoff of this iPad. And I was like,
you can run the whole thingoff the iPad? He goes, yeah, I could

(31:26):
walk around and trigger it.And I was like, well, show me he
did. Steve at first was like,no, no, no. You know what I mean?
And then it was like, wait aminute. It's easier. It's better.
I just told him. He said,learn from assa. You know what I
mean? But there was a lot thatASA didn't know about exactly how
to get the sound through theright levels, because Steve had done
it for so long that that kindof. Of the kind of experience that

(31:48):
you only get by doing anddoing. I had a teacher who said,
it's just coins in the meterat some point. You know what I mean?
You just gotta keep pointing.Only time can get you to a certain
place. It's like learning aninstrument or something. I told you
the story the other day. Didyou find the name? I was listening
to? I think it was probablyNPR or something years ago. I love

(32:10):
jazz. And there was thistrumpet player, and he was this obviously
old man at the time. And theinterviewer was saying, I think he
was in his 80s. And he waslike, so you've been doing this for
so long. How do you challengeyourself? And he goes, well, my teacher
challenges me. He's like,teacher? He goes, yeah, I've never
stopped taking lessons. And itwas like, but you're like a virtuoso

(32:33):
master. You just never stoptaking lessons. And there's a certain
point where you get so good,you can't push yourself anymore.
You need someone else to holda mirror up and say. Say, you know,
try this. And that's what alot of reverse mentoring does. You
know, the people who don'thave the experience should tap into
the experience of those whodo. But those who have a lot of experience
should recognize that I mightbe calcifying here. You know, I should

(32:56):
probably absorb Some.
Of this, as opposed to this isthe way we've been doing it for.
70 years, which you getcomplacent and sort of get that mindset.
Yeah, you have to be. Andthat's what a big thing that I've
been talking about, talking tothe teams about is. It's fine to
start and say we do it a waythat could be successful. But I've
been really pushing on thisidea of curiosity and it was a big

(33:16):
Walt thing about curiosity.Stay curious and it's just have the
curiosity to say, but what ifwe didn't do it that way? We can
always go back to it. We knowwe could do it that way. What if
we didn't? And I'm a big onefor integrated teams and this includes
by the way, the park operatorssafety. One of the things too that

(33:36):
I didn't like when I cameback, there was a bit of a sense
of victim and I was like,don't be a victim. There is no big
bad guy. Power is somethingyou give, you know what I mean? If
no one has power over you, yougive that. And it's one of the things
that I talked to Josh aboutwhen I came back. I said imagineering

(33:57):
is going to have a seat at thetable. But again, I don't want the
seat that says we tell youwhat to do. It needs to be the seat
that brings our expertise toit. But trust me, the people who
operate these parks, thepeople that deal with the, the commercial
and finance side of things,they also have tremendous expertise.
What you have to do is respectwhen you are the expert, you know
what I mean? And don't try toweigh in in a really strong way in

(34:18):
an area that maybe you're notthe expert. So if you go in and just
tell your doctor, just give mea shot here. My arm hurts like no,
last I checked, I'm thedoctor, you know what I mean? Let
me do a little analysis here.But we're doing a great job down
here. It's really been amodel, I have to say, of these integrated
teams where we early on, whenit can be a small nimble team before

(34:40):
you start deploying a lot ofcapital and moving down the pipeline,
come to some sticky decisionsabout this is what we're trying to
do together and keep thatlocked and keep moving and you can
modify as you go, that is areal important thing. So I am a big
team player. I believe in theintegration. I believe in learning
about what other people do.Walk in their shoes, you know what

(35:03):
I mean? Don't think you'regoing to be the expert, but at least
appreciate why decisions aremade. And I think too often I even
hear this sometimes from theoutside where it's like they're not
letting imagineering do,they're cutting the budgets. That's
not the case. I'm here rightnow telling you that is not the case.
It is absolutely the case thatwe are in this together, that we
all want the same thing. Thereare differences of opinions, how

(35:25):
we should get there. Andthat's a big part of my job, is to
make sure that we're always atthat table. But I also expect my
imagineering leaders to be atthat table too and show up as the
expert you are and talk itthrough. I also have a big belief
that constraint brings thebest design. Don't think less money,

(35:51):
less time or whatever isactually going to end up in a worse
idea. It won't. I actuallyfirmly believe that when you're a
designer, constraints are agift because it's going to force
you to edit, it's going toforce you to innovate, and you're
actually going to get to aplace that is much better than you
would have gone if you had noconstraints whatsoever. Right.

(36:12):
Because there are thefunctional and operational and financial
realities. But I do love, andI remember reading a quote that Bob
Iger talked about returningthe creative decision making to the
creator.
That's important.
As you look forward to the future.
That is very important. Now Ido believe the creators should appreciate
we're a business, we're apublic health company and we're trusted

(36:36):
with a lot of money flowingthrough Imagineering itself, by the
way. And we owe it to ourguests to make sure we give them.
At the end of the day, it'sgot to be that emotional experience.
It's got to be the wow. It'sgot to be stepping into the worlds
that they want, with thecharacters they want and all these
kinds of things in a way thatis truly worth the money they're
spending, but mostly causingthe emotional thing. But we do need

(37:01):
to appreciate how the businessworks because it is important, because
that's how we're going to getit right. But he is right. And this
is what I do. See, I will saythis. It is a creatively driven company.

(37:21):
It is. And there's a lot of.But I also want to say there's a
lot of respect from theoperations partners. They actually
do defer often to this orthis. Okay, that's going to be a
little different than wethought might cost More, whatever.
Okay, we're going to go withthat if you really recommend that.
And of course I have a boss,Josh, who also weighs in on these
things. But he has thatmindset. Bob is brilliant. He has

(37:44):
that mindset. By the way,Michael Eisner was that way before
Frank died. He got a littlelost. I think they were just such
a great combo. That was one ofthe things that was tragic, but Michael
had a great instinct for that.He would come in a room and be like,
like, this is the thing. Thisis the one thing you need to do.
And it was great. And so Ithink that's what you want in a company
like Disney. You do needsomeone who has great taste and great

(38:04):
creative instincts. Because atthe end of the day, that's what everybody
is coming for. It's thatemotional experience which is done
in a creative way, in aninnovative way.
And even with all theseemerging technologies which are probably
gonna fundamentally change theDisney theme park experience, whether
it's AI. VR, AR, I'm veryexcited about whatever.

(38:29):
I'm very excited about AR andXR. I think AR and XR. I have to
keep this brief. I see youover here. This is deadly because
this is its whole world. Wehave such a relationship with this
thing. It pops up stuff. And Ithink when people look at your device,
I'm guilty as well. You justgo there, you forget. And we're all
about the shared experience.Once it gets into glasses, which

(38:51):
by the way, there's also aninevitability to certain technologies
that you. Why fight it? Imean, that's just stupid. So I'm
excited because it'll be likea heads up display kind of situation
where I won't forget that I'min this park, that I'm with you,
because I'll be looking andyou'll always be there. I'm not going
into something else. So I'm.And I'm excited about the possibilities
of layering, especially morecustomizable personal experiences.

(39:14):
I'm excited that we haveinvested in Epic Games and that we
are going to have anopportunity for certain guests to
bridge those worlds and sharethose worlds and have a kind of relationship
between that. Why not? Youknow what I mean? That's cool. And
we have a way now to do it, orwe will very shortly have a way to
do it that won't be intrusiveto guess who aren't. And we're already

(39:39):
experimenting with this stuffbecause I believe done right and
I think we can do this right.Well, I know we can. It's just we're
going to iterate and we'regoing to try and we're going to keep
doing it. It will actually bea further enhancement and it won't
be a detriment. Right now, Ithink devices are a bit of a detriment.
I do believe AI is going to bea big solution to this because when

(40:01):
you have natural speech andyou just can talk to something and
it can just talk back to youagain, it allows me to stay in the
moment. This is fine whenyou're like, you're on a plane, you're
sitting at home and you're. Ijust want to play the New York Times
games or wordle or something.But when I'm with you, I want to
be with you. I mean, I don'teven, you know, I always catch myself
if I put on the table, I'mlike, I just should put that thing
away because if it's there,you're like, you know what I mean?

(40:23):
It's like Lord of the Rings. Ijust want that thing. So you just
have to like, you know, andjust be with the people. And that's
what we have created, whetherit be the cruise ships or the parks
or whatever created theseplaces where the shared experience
is. I think it is truly, youknow, magical. And it's, you know,
I always feel like we end upwith these cliches, but, you know,

(40:43):
George Lucas, George Lucassaid, Tom Fitzgerald shared this
with me. I wasn't on the firststar tours, but he said they were
worried about this one scenebeing sort of cliche. And George
Lucas actually said to Tom,and I think it was Tony Baxter, but
he said, you know, they'recliches for a reason. They work.
So anyway, well, thefoundation's always going.
To be good storytelling, andthat's what WDI is based on.

(41:06):
It is absolutely true.
Yeah, Bruce, I could. I hadabout 700 more questions I would
like to ask you. Hopefully wecan do this again.
Well, you know, the key to.
I'm really grateful for your time.
No, thank you. This is fun.
Yeah. I appreciate, from aguest perspective, me and my family,
we appreciate everything.
Great, great. Where's yournext visit?
I'm coming back to. Thank youonce again for listening and more

(41:35):
importantly, being part of thewwe family and community, I am incredibly
and sincerely grateful to youand for you. I know that your time
is your most valuablecommodity and I appreciate you spending
and sharing it with me. I hopeyou found some magic, a little bit
of inspiration in this week'sshow. Huge thanks. Once again to
Bruce Vaughn from Walt DisneyImagineering for his time, which
I know is so very limited andso very valuable. I'd love to hear

(41:59):
your thoughts about myconversation with Bruce over in the
WWE clubhouse atwww.comclubhouse. and if you enjoyed
this week's show, please helpspread the word, share the show,
and tell a friend. Moreimportantly, remember to be kind,
to choose the good. Have anamazing day and even better tomorrow.
So until next time, I love andappreciate you. See ya.

(42:23):
Well, it sounds pretty good.
In fact, that's just the right spirit.

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838 · Walt Disney Imagineering Chief Creative Officer Bruce Vaughn on the Future of the Disney Parks

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}838 · Walt Disney Imagineering Chief Creative Officer Bruce Vaughn on the Future of the Disney Parks