846 · Mary Poppins: Untold Stories and the Making of a Disney Classic - WDW Radio: Your Guide to the Walt Disney World, Disneyland, Disney Cruise and More Disney Magic!

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Now then, what'd be nice?
We'll start with raspberry iceand then some cakes and tea.
You brought your references, I presume?
May I see them?
Oh, I make it a point never togive references.
A very old fashioned idea tomy mind.
Is that so?
We'll have to see about thatthen, won't we?
Now then, in a most delightful way.

(00:25):
Supergirl.
Super.
Super.
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.
Yes.
Well done.
You said it.
The biggest word you ever heard.
And this is how it.
Why do you always complicatethings that are really quite simple?
Give me your hand, please.
Michael, don't slouch.

(00:47):
One, two.
WDW Radio, you, information station.
Mary Poppins is practicallyper but the process behind it was
emotional, unpredictable andfilled with incredible stories that
most fans have never been told.

(01:07):
I think there are very few perfect.
Quote unquote movies in this world.
Jaws, the ShawshankRedemption, the Shining, Back to
the Future.
And from Disney, I thinkthere's really only one on this list
and it's Mary Poppins.
This week I'm joined by authorand Disney historian Todd James Pierce,
who whose new book Making Marythe Sherman Brothers, Walt Disney

(01:28):
and the Creation of ClassicFilm uncovers a deeper, more emotional
and often surprising historybehind the film.
And together we're gonnaexplore the Sherman Brothers remarkable
journey, Walt Disney'screative vision, and some of the
behind the scenesbreakthroughs that helped shape one
of Disney's most beloved classics.
And I promise this is gonnachange the way you watch Mary Poppins

(01:52):
forever.
Hello, my friend and welcometo WW Radio, your guide to the Disney
parks and experiences andmovies from around the world.
I am Lou Mongello and this isshow number 843.
Welcome.
Whether this is your firsttime or you've been with me all 20
years, since the verybeginning, welcome back or welcome
home.
Couple of quick things beforewe get started.
Please join the community andconversation over in the WW Radio

(02:14):
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I am Lou Mongello onInstagram, Facebook and LinkedIn.

(02:38):
And don't forget that whenyou're ready to plan your next Disney
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my friends over@mMouseFanTravel.com it's who I have
trusted for more than 18 years.
They are celebrating their 20year anniversary and continuing to
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(02:59):
vacation, but yours as well.
To make every trip seamlessand unforgettable again.
You can visit them over@mMouseFanTravel.com and just a quick
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(03:21):
Lou Mangello and of courseI'll have a full recap on the show
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If you have any questions, ifthere's something you want to see
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like the show, and I hope thatyou do, please take a minute to rate,

(03:42):
review and more importantly,share the show with a friend.
But for now, sit back, relaxand enjoy this week's episode of
the WDW radio show.
We've all been asked what'sthe best Disney movie?

(04:03):
But I think what we're reallyasking is what is your favorite Disney
movie?
And for me, I think the answerwould most likely be the same because
I think there are a few nearperfect movies, not just Disney movies
that have ever been made.
And I think Mary Poppins isone of them.
And this week we're going todive into the making of one of the

(04:23):
most beloved films in Disney history.
Because it's not just a storyabout magic and music on the screen,
but also about creativity,little bit or a lot of bit of conflict
and some.
Vision behind the scenes.
And my guest today is ToddJames Pierce.
He is the author of MakingMary Poppins, the Sherman Brothers,
Walt Disney and the Creationof the Classic Film.

(04:45):
And his book is going to takeus inside the process, from the Sherman
Brothers to Walt's Pursuit andthe infamous battles with one P.L.
travers.
Todd, good to see you again.
Welcome.
Always good to see you too, Louis.
You know, as somebody who is not.
Just a huge Mary Poppins fan,I've also had the privilege of getting

(05:05):
to talk and interview one DameJulie Andrews, which is sort of like
a highlight of anything I'veever done so I'm really excited to
explain, to explore really howthis film came together and I think
why it still resonates andsome of the fascinating, probably
untold stories that youuncover along the way.
And you and I. I was trying tothink about this on the way here.

(05:26):
We go sort of way back andlike many, many, many years, I don't
even remember how or where wefirst met.
I think I met you throughJeremy Marks is how I think I first
met you.
And I think it was at thefirst D23 in Anaheim.
The one where Disney had togive away tickets to all the cast
members that allowed to film it.
That one, yeah.

(05:48):
But we've always had thisshared love of Disney, specifically
history and.
Really?
Absolutely.
There's so many projectsyou've done that I've admired over
the years.
Well, this is going to meetingof the mutual admiration society.
There's a lot of love goingback and forth.
But do me a favor.
Give me a little bit of theTodd James Pierce origin story, Todd

(06:08):
James.
Pierce, as it relates to Disney.
You share it however you thinkis relevant and appropriate.
Well, so growing up, mygrandmother worked at Disneyland
for years and years, and sheloved it, and they were so good to
her back then.
And she knew that I was veryinterested in this.

(06:29):
You know, when it was like,you know, kind of like when I was
a kid, it was an interestinghobby, something that I very much
enjoyed.
But through her, I got to meeta lot of people that I should have
appreciated way more when Iwas a kid and maybe had a tape recorder
on me, but of course I didn't.
So Herb Ryman, John Hench,people like that, I was able to meet

(06:51):
and talk to a little bit.
And then later on, so Istarted out my professional career
as a normal writer, and I alsowork as a professor, and I published
novels and short storycollections and textbooks and things
like that.
And then there was a certainpoint where I started to remember

(07:12):
a lot of the stories that I'dfirst learned about through my grandmother,
and I started to explore those.
And those were just so muchfun to get into and to talk to people
about.
And it was really at the righttime, like late 90s, early 2000s,

(07:33):
because there had been a lotof work done on the history of Disney
in terms of animation.
And most of the majorbiographies are written by people
who are far more interested inanimation than they are in parks.
Like, most of the majorbiographies, I think, have a section
towards the end that should be titled.
And then Walt becameinterested in something else and

(07:58):
These many of the people werestill around that had developed Disneyland.
They were separated from thecompany and they could speak more
freely.
And there wasn't a whole lot of.
There was the Jansen brothers,but there wasn't a whole lot of people
beyond that really trying to,like, systematically collect up their
stories and preserve them sothey could be shared.
So that.
That's kind of how I got intoall this.

(08:19):
I thought I was just going towrite one book.
I had such a fabulous timetalking to all those people that
when it was done, I startedthinking, like, well, you know, what
else is there here to work on?
Because this is great.
And also I could see what hadbeen done and also what could be

(08:42):
done that would be interesting.
Right.
Because there has been this,especially over the last.
We were sort of before westarted recording, the two old timers
were sort of recounting, youknow, some of the earlier days, early
war wounds.
Some of the people that we know.
And, you know, love and missJim Corkus.
But you also, you know, goingback, I guess it's probably six,

(09:03):
seven years, you started doingwhat I don't think really had been
done yet, which is bringingmore to the forefront, people like
Ward Kimball and sort ofmaking the definitive biography of
this person who sort of named.
That we've heard, but maybedidn't know as much about, and allowed
us who wanted to, you know,dig a little deeper to go into understanding
not just the work, but the menor the women who put it out.

(09:26):
Yeah.
So 20 years ago, a personnamed Paul Anderson that I used to
work with quite a bit and usedto be very kind of central to this
world of Disney history.
We used to have conversationswhere we could see that the architectural
biographies had been written,even if they were very film focused,
as opposed to parks focused,and that what was probably coming

(09:50):
was that the.
These topics would besubdivided down in two areas, that
there would be entire booksdevoted to projects, maybe an attraction
or a film or biographies ofpeople that were central to the Disney
effort, that that's wherethings were going.
And one of the things that Ilike about what I get to do is I

(10:11):
think that Disney fans havethis intuitive sense of that they
connect with something herethat they really love, something
about this world that itspeaks to them, but they aren't always
good at articulating why theyhave this connection.
And so one of the roles that Itry to fulfill is I try to create

(10:35):
books or other materials orthe podcast that then allows people
to explore some reasons orwhy, or have a sense that they're
connecting with people whocreated these things that give them
a deeper understanding notonly of the world of Disney, but
also as an extension ofthemselves as well.

(10:55):
And I think that type of selfknowledge and having a self depth
there through these things isvery useful and important.
Well, and I think that'sreally where this all got started.
You go back, you know, twodecades, and the stuff that was being
put out was by fans for fans.
Right.
The E Ticket magazine, which,you know, is a.

(11:16):
Is a treasure trove of knowledge.
And like, for me, I wrote thebook I wanted to read.
There was no Walt Disney Worldtrivia book.
So I'm like, I'm just going togo out and write it myself.
And I think that's whatstarted to happen was we were some
of the first ones, whether itwas podcasting articles, Usenet news
groups, wherever we were putting.
Stuff out, we were sort of trying.

(11:38):
To find and create andresearch those stories on our own.
And I think started to usherin this next wave of, you know, like
D23.
Not just showcasing a lot ofthese legends, but.
But bringing their stories tolight as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So finding.
Finding ways that people feellike they can connect with something

(12:00):
that's close to the films orthe parks or the people behind them
that they really admire.
I think that, you know, so inways, I think we're kind of on the
upper end of the age group now.
I mean, not to call out anyparticular numbers, but I really

(12:20):
see that the fan world has changed.
And it started to change inthe 90s when Disney very consciously
moved from an entertainmentand hospitality company, which is
what it had been from 70through, like, early 90s, to a lifestyle
company.
And I think for people thatare maybe our age and older, not

(12:41):
us, but I think this wholeidea of what's been termed, like,
Disney adults is veryconfusing for them because a lot
of people my age, when I haveconversations with them, they think
of Disney as like, well, yeah,the movies are.
And we liked going on vacationlast year, but that's about it.
But if you're 30 years oldnow, you grew up in a world where

(13:04):
on the Disney Channel you hadregular series and you had the dcoms.
And this kind of inculcated alifestyle in which you connected
with entertainment in a verydifferent way, far more regularly
than when you and I grew up,because there'd be a movie every
quarter and then there was theSunday TV show and a third of the
times it was repeats and maybea few other things, and then the

(13:27):
occasional trip to DisneyWorld or Disneyland.
But there wasn't a way to makeit a daily activity.
Whereas that's what reallychanged in the company.
I think that's why thatthere's this cross talk now between
people that are older andpeople who are younger.
Because the people who areolder, I don't think really understand
the world that people who are30 or younger grew up in and how

(13:51):
they connect to a fansensibility or to fandom differently
than people who are older.
Because we make all thoseconnections when we're young.
This may be one of the manyold man things that I'm going to
say, but for us, in order tobe able to find and enjoy that content,
there was no YouTube.
Right.
We were going out and buyingthose tins of the treasures from

(14:11):
the Disney vault in order togo back and watch some of those early
things of Walt on tv.
And we look, we both just camefrom a weekend that very clearly
evidences what you said atdestination D23.
That energy in the room,especially when it was about a Goofy
movie and things like that waswonderful and wild to see just how

(14:33):
passionate those folks that,who that, that was their childhood
war about.
That's why I love And Iapplaud D23 for, for doing things
like that.
And wherever your sort offandom lies, especially like in that
time frame, they're able toaddress it for you and give you an
outlet for it and moreimportantly, give you a room that
you know, you're with likeminded people.

(14:53):
Yeah.
So I was.
So one of the things that I dowhen I go to the fan events is I
listen to what's going on stage.
But I'm also very aware ofcrowd reaction because I think that's
interesting and also very revealing.
I think that part of theDisney Company ethos right now at
these fan events is to kind ofthrow things out there to see how
they go.
Because part of the DisneyCompany ethos is a confusion about

(15:17):
what people truly like.
And so when they brought upfilms that were somewhat recent,
last 10 years, when theybrought up the live action Jungle
Book, I think that's 2016.
Could be wrong.
It's around there.
Anyways, there was politeapplause, right?
There's polite applause.
When they brought up thingsthat were 20 years older, older,

(15:39):
it was like Goofy movies,like, you know, like that's, you
know, that's old enough tohave a sense of mythology in people's
minds, whereas 10 years,that's not enough.
And the other interesting, youknow, one of my other interesting
takeaways in terms of crowdreaction was the repainting of the
castle.

(15:59):
It's like, man, that was popular.
Who knew paint was gonn get the.
Biggest reaction over the weekend?
It's like, note to self, theway to make a really good announcement
at D23 is to say you're takingaway something new and returning
it to something that's very old.
The older the better.
Yeah.

(16:20):
The sense of look, Disney'sabout the way it makes us feel.
Right.
It's nostalgia and sentiment.
And to your point, aboutwhat's old for some is classic for
others.
We've had sort of theconversation when they announced
the closing of Tom SawyerIsland, Rivers of America.
You know, I get the.
For us, the nostalgia and the sentiment.
I think a lot of people mightnot know who Becky Thatcher might

(16:42):
be, but by bringing in cars that.
They're not building that foryou and I, they're building that
for our kids who can then goto their kids.
This is what I grew up with.
And this was my sort ofclassic thing that meant so much
to my childhood.
And you know, thinking sort ofgenerationally that way in terms
of what is coming next.
Yeah, yeah, I can, you know,I. I do miss the layout, the familiar

(17:05):
layout of Frontierland, but I.
There's something comfortingright about it.
Absolutely.
It's familiar.
It still exists in California.
But I do get that, you know,Tom Sawyer island is a big piece
of land that wasn't utilizedvery well and you know, very expensive
to maintain.
For what?
Not generating revenue.
Not generating revenue.
Yeah, it's hard.
There was no Tom Sawyer plush.

(17:28):
And so I do get that.
The thing that I most miss,and it keeps changing in the concept
art, is the water feature.
And I would like to have alarge water feature over there because
otherwise so much of the otherwater's gone away.
The submarine lagoon's gone,the moat kind of what it used to
be in the 70s, gone.

(17:51):
And rivers of America.
In terms of public facingareas, it'd be nice to have a water
feature there.
So it's just not one long and.
There'S that kinetic elementand the sound that it brings in.
Which I think, to your point,I think Disney listens more than
you think that they do interms of being able to gauge what
public reaction.

(18:11):
I think we talked about somestuff at Destination D that sometimes
they may talk about thingsjust to sort of see what the response
might be.
And it.
This is a, you know, it's anice segue into talking about Mary
Poppins.
Right.
It's this classic movie thatyou and I grew up with and meant
so much to us.

(18:32):
You know, some younger kidsmight think it's one of those really,
really old movies, but.
So why this book and why now?
Okay, so I didn't see MaryPoppins until I was a teenager.
So, like you, I think I grewup in the world before VHS and before
Betamax.
And there were those discsbefore that that had the COVID I

(18:55):
forget what they were called.
Laserdiscs.
Yeah, there was laserdisc, butthere was an early version of laserdiscs
too, that had a plastic coveron them.
And you put the whole plasticcover into a machine.
I forgot what those are.
Right, I know what you mean.
Those.
That's what we.
Yeah, that's what we had.
A cartridge.
It was a cartridge, but it wasa long, flat cartridge you put in.
And they would take it out andflip it over.

(19:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We had a laserdisc one likeanother old technology, like a records
that you'd put in there.
But we didn't have that other kind.
People are going, listen tothese dinosaurs.
Talking about this ancient technology.
We had to hand crank them too,which was wild.
Yeah, I've got to go somewherein my Model T later today.
So Mary Poppins was not a filmthat showed up regularly on tv.

(19:40):
There was no real way to watchit unless you saw it in the theaters.
And so I.
Maybe I'd missed.
There was one year I was verysick when I was a kid, so maybe it
came out then and I justdidn't see it in theaters.
I didn't see it until I wasearly teenager.
I think I was 13 when I saw it.
And it had a tremendous impacton me.
And so one of the hiddenthings about Mary Poppins is we see

(20:06):
it as kind of like a fantasyfilm based on the books of Pamela
Travers.
It is radically rewritten inthe 1960s for Disney by Don Degradi
and the Sherman brothers.
And one of the things thatthey very smartly do is that they
sneak in this 1960s narrativeto it, even though it's set at the

(20:30):
turn of the century.
This is a movie about parentsnot understanding children.
This is a movie aboutgenerational divides.
And that's what, in terms ofyouth culture, the 50s and the 60s
are all about.
It's about these twogenerations not being able to understand
each other.
And so if you think of movieslike Rebel Without a Cause, Rebel

(20:51):
Without a Cause is a movieabout a teenager, Jim Stark, and
how he feels that his fatherdoesn't understand him.
Huge success in 1955 I believe.
And that's exactly what MaryPoppins is about.
And so they take a modernsocial narrative and they dress it

(21:14):
up in this turn of the centurycostuming and music.
Music is mostly turn of thecentury and late 1800s music styles.
And then they present it tothe public and the public relates
to it.
But I don't think the publicalways knows while they're relating
to it, because sometimes it'seasier to see the fractures and stresses

(21:36):
in your own culture whenyou're watching it in a culture far
from you or a long time ago.
And so I saw it when I was ateenager and I grew up in house where
my parents were gettingdivorced for five years.
So in the late 1970s and early80s, after women's empowerment movements,

(22:02):
there was a backlog of divorcecases in California.
And.
And so my.
My parents were gettingdivorced into the same house for
five years.
And I saw it during thatperiod and it really.
I really connected with this film.
I was closer to my mom than my dad.

(22:23):
My dad was a little difficultwhen I was growing up.
And so I don't think Iunderstood why the film spoke to
me until many years later, butit did.
It just really kind ofconnected with me on that level.
Yeah, it's interestingbecause, you know, when you think
about the film now, the themewhere, you know, you talk about sort
of parents and children, youknow, the story ultimately, you know,

(22:47):
critiques parents for puttingwork above family, you know, And
I'm like.
I would sometimes look at it,I'm like, well, is this a children's
story or is it a film thatreally is, you know, a critique of
adult priorities and almostmore of a wake up call for parents,
which I think was sort of verymodern for 1964 too.

(23:09):
Right.
And it comes out in a wholeslew of these troubled home pictures
from Disney.
Two years before Mary Poppins,they create Parent Trap, which is
another one of these pictures.
Parents not understanding thekids, and the kids working to kind

(23:30):
of rehabilitate the how theparents see them.
So there's this whole kind ofstream of pictures that are moving
through Disney at this time.
Don degradi and others havethis interesting way of looking at
Disney projects.
They think that they cancreate a character in the film that
Walt's going to identify with,it's going to move forward faster.

(23:51):
And they very consciously takeMr. Banks, the David Tomlinson character
in Mary Poppins, to be theWalt character.
He even has the Walt mustache.
You know, he doesn't have thatmost of his life.
That's for the film.
And he acts a little bit like Walt.
He's about the same age as Walt.
And so this is the Waltcharacter in the Mary Poppins movie.

(24:14):
But that's very much part ofWalt's life.
He's, I think by any standardtoday we'd call him a workaholic.
He doesn't get home from workmany times until seven, eight at
night, has dinner after hisfamily sometimes brings work home
with him.
He loves work.
He takes his kids when they'reyounger to the studio on weekends
while he works and they play outside.

(24:34):
And so I think there'ssomething that not only in the culture
connects with Mary Poppins,but also in Walt Disney that connects
with Mary Poppins because thisis part of his personal struggle,
I think this life, work, balance.
Yeah.
And Disney's like, listen, ifyou parents don't start following
these lessons, we're going tojust start killing off at least one
parent in all the futuremovies going forward.

(24:57):
But let's talk about Walt fora second because you talk about this
film as one of the three greatturning points in his career.
It's Snow White, it'sDisneyland and this film.
Why do you think this one ofall the great projects that he had,
had such a transformationalpower for the company and maybe even

(25:17):
Walt personally?
Sure.
Well, there's.
Let me give you a couple ofreasons here.
First of all, it's a financialsuccess in the way that no film had
been a financial success forDisney previously.
It is the first time thatother studios start copying what
Disney had done.
Disney had had animatedsuccesses and for the most part,

(25:40):
Paramount tries to partnerwith Fleischer brothers in the 40s.
It doesn't really work outthat well.
But mostly other studios don'tgo down that path.
That's just a unique thingthat Disney's doing these animated
features.
But here is a live actionfeature that in terms of money coming
in on a limited release, it'sjust a handful of theaters when it

(26:02):
comes out in 1964, pulls inmore money than what other studios
are making on their films.
And so after this, you startto see other studios imitating Disney
style productions.
There's Sound of music,there's Dr. Dolittle.
Dr. Dolittle tries to.
The people making Dr. Doodletry to hire not only Julie Andrews,

(26:24):
but the Sherman Brothers tocome over.
They're trying to imitate whatWalt has done.
So it's the first time thatthere's such a level of success that
it inspires imitation of theother studios.
The Other thing is, we're heretoday in the Pauley and Disney World
would not be Disney Worldwithout Mary Poppins.

(26:46):
Before Mary Poppins, Walt isspecifically looking for around 5,000,
up to 10,000 acres, no morethan that.
That's what can be affordedfor Disneyland in 1964.
The person that's going to dothe land, arrange the land purchasing
on Disney side is a lawyernamed Bob Foster.

(27:07):
He flies with Walt to.
In secret.
In secret in New York.
He never flies directly toFlorida from California, so it's
harder to track them.
Which makes no sense today.
Like we're going to use fakenames and fly to multiple destinations
to get where we want to go.
And no, TSA is fine with that.
Yeah.
So anyways, he goes to NewYork with Walt and he's there for

(27:29):
the opening, some of theopening ceremonies for the World's
Fair, and then he comes downto Florida.
Mary Poppins isn't out yet,and his specific directions are to
look for around 5,000 acres,maybe up to 10,000, depending.
They need a contiguous plot.
They don't want what theyended up with trying to, like, fill
in all the outs.

(27:49):
And so that's his original.
That's his original directions.
And Mary Poppins comes out andmakes a ton of money.
And it's only from that moneythat the Disney World project is
then financially able toexpand from 5 to 10,000 acres up
to 27,000 acres.
So it's many times larger thanwhat it would have been.

(28:11):
And so without Mary Poppinshere in the Pali today, we'd be kind
of close to the edge of theDisney World property.
Whereas now it goes on foreverin that direction.
So it transformed what was possible.
It also gave him a lot ofmoney to improve Disneyland.
The Tomorrow 1967 project ispartially with Mary Poppins money.

(28:35):
It gave him a chance to expandout the studio.
It gives the company also avery nice financial buffer when Walt
dies.
And that's significant aswell, which obviously Walt doesn't
know.
Right.
Every movie is a gambler.
It is a role of the dice.
Disney obviously had a lot ofsuccesses before Mary Poppins, but

(28:55):
the story of, you know, we'veall chased a girl.
For a long time, and the story.
Of Walt chasing this for 20 years.
What do you think Walt saw inthis story, in these characters that
made him chase it andmetaphorically chase P.L.
travers for two decades?

(29:15):
That's a good question.
I don't know the answer to that.
There was something in thestory that he deeply related to.
He's trying to get the rightsgoing back to the 1940s.
There are two modes withWalt's live action films at the studio.
There are those that need tobe produced very quickly.
Many of the live action filmsduring Walt's lifetime go from creating

(29:38):
the script to post productionin a year.
That's a really familiar model.
And if you look at what theSherman brothers, during the time
they work on Mary Poppins forthose four years, they do film after
film that started andfinished, started and finished, you
know, over and over.
Absent Minded professorstarted and finished.
Summer Magic started and finished.

(30:00):
So they learn a lot throughthat process also about what they
need to do in Mary Poppins tomake it different.
But there's this handful ofDisney projects that get Disney live
action film projects underWalt that get worked on for years
that I see as a higher qualitythan most of the other films that
come out.
This is one.

(30:23):
Wow.
My mind just went, Darby o'.
Gill.
My mind is like.
Darby o' Gill is another onethat gets worked on for about a dozen
years.
And there's these films thatWalt seems to think have story qualities
that are more important, thatdeserve longer incubation time.
And the result of thatincubation time tends to produce
a higher quality film that hasbetter legs to move through history.

(30:49):
Yeah, because you sort of talkabout Walt kind of being at a crossroads,
Right.
He wanted to make this filmfor two decades, but it still had
this, you know, very much sortof felt like a throwback, even for
64.
So do you think.
Do you think this was more ofalmost a nostalgic personal project
for Walt and.
Or was it more of, hey, weneed to take this strategic risk

(31:12):
for the company as a whole.
That's a great question.
I think Walt's a veryintuitive person.
I think that I've now readanything that he wrote or is attributed
to him that I can get my hands on.
I'm sure there's some lettersI don't have, and I've listen to
all of the interviews that are available.
Walt is more of an intuitive person.

(31:34):
He's not very good atexplaining his motivation in abstract
language.
That's just not his strength.
So it's hard to say exactlyhow much of this is intentional and
how much of this just kind offeels like the right way to move.
Just my gut.
Right.
Yeah.
And so Mary Poppins is likethis fabulous project because on

(31:58):
the one hand, it plays into nostalgia.
And so this is a, you know,time in the world before the war,
before the Depression, wherethings were different and can have
A little more magical sheenbecause they're so far in the past.
So it can play to that.
It can play to that olderaudience in terms of a nostalgia
moment.
But the plot structure is aplot structure that's aimed for kids.

(32:22):
It's like, hey, kids, here'ssomething like you're having at your
house right now where yourparents don't understand you.
And here's maybe how toempathize more with your father.
The father's the one that'snot understanding here.
Even though Glynis John'scharacter seems to be equally, equally
unplugged from the kid's lifeto the point where they have a nanny.

(32:44):
And so there's a way to kindof key this into kids and even teenagers
as well.
And I'm not sure that if youwere to see this film back in 1964
or 65 when it was firstreleased, that if you were a 50 year
old adult, that you wouldunderstand that the kid's message
was tucked in there.
And if you were a 12 year old,I'm not sure that you would understand
that this was also a nostalgiafilm for adults.

(33:05):
So it fulfills multipleaudience needs at the same time.
In a way that's pretty sneaky.
And it does.
Well, I always sort of thoughtof it as there's two different films
in the same movie.
When you watch it as a kid.
Oh, I'm getting all choked up.
When I watched it as a kid,you're right.
There were certain messagesthat I was taking away from it.

(33:28):
I had parents that were lovedme very much.
But, you know, and then when Iwent back and I watched it as a parent,
it was a completely differentfilm for me.
Yeah.
And I understood things.
I saw things from my kids eyesand from my parents eyes.
And I'm like, my light bulbswent off and I got it.
Yeah.
And I think it's intentionalor not.

(33:50):
It was just sort of brillianthow that happened, you know.
But then I was thinking like,what if, you know, we look Mary Poppins
to Disney classic.
It's part of just thezeitgeist of filmmaking again.
I think it's one of the fewmovies that is in the conversation
is, you know, what is aperfect film?
But what if, okay, what if itwould have failed?

(34:12):
How do you think that wouldhave changed Walt's legacy or even
the parks?
We would have a much smaller park.
Mapo wouldn't.
So they would not have aseasily the manufacturing arm for
wed.
The money came in at a pointwhere Disney as a company was Poised
to expand quite a bit.

(34:33):
And that expansion would havebeen a lot smaller.
I think Disney, in terms ofits image is rejuvenated because
of Mary Poppins.
It connects with adults.
So it brings a lot of adultsback into Disney Fair, which through
this period, Disney is.
So I think of like the Disneyfilms as reflecting Walt's current

(34:57):
interest.
And so if you look at the1950s, there's a lot of very serious
documentary style historicalfilms, biopics essentially.
And if you get up to the 60s,you get to a lot of zany comedies.
Humor is more important toWalt in the 60s than it was in the
1950s.
Davy Crockett is not a funnymovie, but a very good movie.

(35:18):
Whereas Shaggy Dog, which isthe first one that's actually 59,
kind of kicks off this trendtowards humor.
It's a very.
It's a very funny film thatlowers its relation to objective
reality in order to increasethe comedic value in the film.
And this is.
This is where Walt is at this point.

(35:40):
I've now entirely forgotten.
Got what your question was.
I went on some left, strangeleft turn.
I had no idea where I was going.
There was some point I wastrying to make.
I'd forgotten that my oldmind, it's caught up with me.
Well, I mean, that's.
Look, it's okay because there is.
There's so much to this filmand there are so many different of

(36:01):
levels of depth to it.
But, you know, one of thethings that you talk about and I
think was brought out a littlebit in the Saving Mr. Banks movie.
You know, this film is notjust a P.L.
travers story and a WaltDisney story.

(36:21):
I think one of the moststriking things that you talk about
in the book is how much of thestory arc came from the Sherman Brothers,
not just the songs themselves.
Do you sort of see them as notjust songwriters, but almost, you
know, uncredited coscreenwriters of the film?
Oh, absolutely.
So the unspoken rule of thumbat Disney during Walt's lifetime

(36:45):
was you got one screen crediteven if you did multiple jobs.
And so, you know, you can kindof negotiate your one screen credit
if you were lucky enough toget one.
Because 50s and 60s, noteveryone on a production gets a screen
credit.
So you got one screen credit.
But absolutely, this, this is,I think the strength of the Sherman

(37:06):
Brothers is Bob wanted to be aliterary novelist.
And so he has a pretty goodsense of language and of narrative.
And Dick wanted to be.
He wanted to createsymphonies, he wanted to create music
for the stage, things like that.

(37:27):
And neither one of theirCareers were going very well at.
At one point, Bob, to savemoney so he could focus more on his
writing, was living in achild's playhouse.
The children had outgrown it.
It had dirt floors and no plumbing.
I believe his rent was $5 a month.
And Dick, for years and yearswas working for the to support.

(37:53):
He has an early marriage andan early daughter.
Any get gets divorced, so.
But he has financialresponsibilities and he's working
at the Aldec Artificial flowerCompany and he's doing really well
at this.
He goes on TV to like onmorning shows to talk about how to

(38:14):
design artificial arrangementsfor your office or your home.
He goes to home shows and willtalk with people and sell, you know,
flowers.
So he's doing pretty well atthis to the point that he has significant
public appearances.
But neither of these thingsare what the Sherman Brothers really
want to do.
And it's only when they gettogether, when there's a sense of

(38:37):
strong narrative and languageand music, that they're able to overcome
their individual limitationsand together produce something that
neither one of them on theirown were capable of.
And one of the interestingthings in looking at the book.
So I think that personalstories get flattened out over time.
Like you get to this elevatorpitch of your personal life.

(38:58):
And Bob and Dick knew what theelevator pitch of their personal
life was.
But in going back through thethings that I had for both of them,
I could go through all oftheir college writing and they both
worked for the college newspaper.
Dick wrote short stories as well.
They were both kind of crossinterested in the other's strengths.

(39:22):
And so once they get together,they have one person who understands
melody quite well, anotherperson understands a little bit,
and one person understands thenarrative quite well, and the other
person understands a little bit.
And so there's a lot ofconversations they could have that
would quickly have depth.
Yeah.
See, each brings their ownsort of individual strengths to the

(39:43):
table and they are strongerwhen they are combined.
But we talked about Walt andsort of bringing his own personal
stories of growing up with his father.
The Sherman Brothers, too,infused a lot of their own childhood
into this.
Flying kites with their father.
Some of the funny wordplay,the cobble.
Fobble.

(40:05):
Which I think clearly helpedshape what Mary Poppins ended up
becoming.
Do you think that.
So talk about sort of howtheir personal imprint affected not
just the story, but certainlythe music as well.
Yeah.
So the Sherman Brothers, Ithink, are really interesting for

(40:26):
the Disney studio.
They start out.
They start out as pop, theystart out as country western songwriters.
Briefly, and then become popsongwriters in the 50s.
And they first work with a Mouseketeer.
Listeners will think it'sAnnette, I think, but it's actually
Judy Harriet.

(40:46):
And then they move on to workwith Annette, a more famous Mouseketeer.
And they're writing songs fora teen audience, even though they
aren't teenagers.
And so they understand themusical language of the 1950s.
And so for the Disney, theyunderstand the musical language of
the 1950s.
And also what you were saying,Lou, I think, is exactly right.

(41:06):
They're also including thingsfrom their own childhood in the 1930s
into those songs.
And so these songs, too, havethat bifurcated direction for different
generations.
And so if you're younger, likewatching the Parent Trap, let's Get
Together, there's a melodythere that speaks to a younger audience.

(41:28):
But there's also a sensibilityin those songs that speaks to an
older audience.
And so it's a way of kind ofbringing these.
These two worlds together.
For Mary Poppins, I think thesongs mostly have a lot of drive
and pep in them.
They're extremely easy tolisten to.
And I think that that kind ofpicks up a lot of the musical energy

(41:48):
for youth.
But also, like you're saying, they.
They include a lot of thesensibilities that would appeal to
an older audience.
And what they're trying to dowith these songs, in particular,
Walt's impressed with thembecause these are two people, probably
more so because of Bob, thatunderstand historically based narratives.

(42:12):
They understand what Waltcalls period.
So how to use music to amplifysome setting aspects of a movie.
And so what they are trying todo is they're going back to listen
to things that their father,Al Sherman, who was also a composer,
liked when they were young.
They're going back to listento English songs from the early 1900s

(42:33):
and to write songs like themas a way of emphasizing, grounding
the period of the picturethrough the music that's in it.
We talked about how thismovie, for me, was sort of two different
movies.
What I watched as a kid andwhat I watched as an adult.
I hate to admit this now, butas a kid watching it at home, there

(42:54):
was a moment in the film thatI would get up and walk across the
room, which is what we did.
Hit the fast forward button onmy vcr.
Clunk.
Like the physical fast forward.
Because I didn't, like Feedthe birds.
Okay.
Right.
I just.
It's thematically and justmusically it's very different than
all everything else that was up.
I'm like, oh, this is such a downer.

(43:15):
Like, it's such a sad thing.
And I didn't understand it.
And then as it became anadult, it's sort of the thing I fast
forward to, right.
I love the song.
We know that.
The Story of Walt.
What sort of.
Why do you think that songsort of in such a good way sticks
out and is so different?
Like, and how much do youthink of Richard and Robert's own

(43:36):
experiences, whether it'sgrowing up, whether it's from the
war, whatever it might be,influenced the creation of that song?
So this is another great question.
And so Dick was the talker ofthe two.
And so many years ago, when Iwas going through over on a podcast

(43:58):
that I have was going throughSamir Tour with the Shermans is like,
well, I wanted to include alittle bit of voice from Dick and
Bob.
And I had hours and hours andhours of Dick.
And it's like, oh, here's myeight minutes, Bob.
So I think the answer to thatquestion is that Dick was closer

(44:23):
to his parents for his entire life.
Bob wasn't.
Bob had a very wild streakfollowing the war with a lot of disillusionment.
When he goes to college, hehas kind of a crazier college experience
than Dick.
Dick has a very conservativecollege experience.

(44:46):
And.
And so I think it's probablyBob that brings in the sense of,
you know, the.
The parents being apart, notunderstanding that Tuppence, something
of value, needs to be given tokids regularly, because that wasn't
part of his experience.
Only I don't think he talksabout it much in interviews.
He talks very, very little.

(45:08):
Especially after Mary Poppins.
Dick was almost always thevoice of the Sherman brothers.
And Bob would add a few thingshere and there occasionally, and
then also join in on thechoruses when they were singing.
And this is not about me, butjust contextually for story.
So, you know, back in 2008,just because I wanted to talk to

(45:32):
the person who wrote theanthem for My child at Mary Poppins,
I was able to track again.
Richard Sherman, D23, didn't exist.
He wasn't on stage.
We didn't hear from these guysa lot other than sort of quietly
in the background recordinginterviews or transcribing interviews.
So I was able to find him.
I mean, it sounds stalkery,but sort of found his phone number,
like in the phone book.
And what I thought was goingto be like an office ended up being

(45:53):
his house.
I talked to his wife for 45minutes, and he gets on the phone,
and one of the first things hesays to me, and I consider it a gift
and a privilege of what I'vegotten to do over the years of forming
a friendship with Dick.
We start chatting, and I.
We're gonna do the interview.
And he says, you sure you wantto talk to me?

(46:15):
Like, you sure?
And I was like, don't.
In my mind, don't you know whoyou are?
But that sense of humilitythat they have is something that
you talk about in the book.
They describe themselves as,we're not visible guys.
Love our songs.
Not us.
Not us.
Yep.
Looking at today, right intoday's creator economy, where visibility
is everything, right?
It's all about me.
It's all about my.

(46:35):
Not me, like, my Instagram.
What do you think they wouldmake of that shift to where the people
who are the songwriters, thepeople who are the composers, the
Alan Menken, all of a suddenare the celebrities.
They are in the forefront.
They are on stages at D23 events.
Well, I think technology hasallowed for the divide between public

(47:01):
and private to really be worndown in many, many, and some interesting
ways.
And so, you know, we live in aculture now where everyone has a
YouTube channel.
So having a public presencedoes not necessarily mean celebrity
in the way that it would havein the 1960s.
And this attitude, love oursongs, not us.

(47:23):
You know, admire our songs,not us, fits in so well with the
Disney studio ethos, whereeverything's under Walt Disney's
name and the Sherman Brothersactually have some visibility.
There's promotion for theSherman brothers at the Disney Studio,
so they, along with a fewanimators, have some visibility for
what they are doing.

(47:43):
But that attitude, we're goingto focus on making this the best
film that we can, not onmaking this the best vehicle to advance
our careers as possible, Ithink, is a much better attitude
for creating things thatdeeply connect to people, that, you
know, create enjoyment andinsight for them.
And I think that that sincerehumility that he always had is part

(48:09):
of what made just him soendearing to people, too.
It wasn't just, you know,there is not a video that was ever
put up or put out by Disneythat, you know, Richard's not at
the piano in Walt's office,that people are just not weeping,
not just because you love themusic, but because you love the man
as well.
Yeah.
The first time that I talkedwith Dick was actually at Disneyland,
and it was this.

(48:31):
It was early 2000s.
It was a surreal experience.
It had been set up for me bythe company.
It was a surreal experiencefor Me because over there, we were
in fantasy land over there world.
With an earshot of the carousel.
At a certain point in this Irealized, oh my God, tons of songs

(48:57):
on the carousel are songs thathe wrote and he's not saying anything
about them at the moment.
It's just like part of this,this world where I'm living inside
of Dick Sherman's bubble.
And you know, I was talking tohim about the World's Fair and some
other stuff and he was just sogracious and so enthusiastic and
he could focus in on you andmake you feel so special when you

(49:18):
were talking to him.
He was, had such a great ability.
It had to have been one ofthose like you sort of go out of
body for a second looking downat you talking to Dick Sherman in
the middle of Disneyland.
Like what am I doing?
How did I possibly get here?
Oh yeah.
There's so many moments wheretwo things I wish I could go back
and communicate to my 10 yearold self is like, hey, things are

(49:41):
going to be way better.
Hang on there for a littlebit, things are going to be okay.
This is all going to turn outokay in the end.
And I also wish I could goback and communicate with my teenage
self.
It's like you should haveinvested in a tape recorder.
So I grew up in Goleta, whichis a suburb of Santa Barbara.

(50:04):
And in junior high I used toride my little huffy 10 speed to
junior high every day.
And on Carlo Drive in Goleta Iused to pass by Carl Bark's house
every day.
And I knew he lived there.
And you know, a little moreadventurous 12 or 13 year old me

(50:26):
with her tape recorder wouldhave been really useful back then.
You know, I said hi to him acouple times, but it's like, hey,
can I come in and like talkabout your whole life?
That would have been a veryuseful thing to have done back then.
And then I worked on the otherfor year, for two years I worked
on the other side of the wallfrom Fess Parker.
And so that would have beenlike another point where like, you

(50:46):
know, like hey, you know, 18year old Todd could have like been
a little more conscientiousabout taping some of this.
Yeah, but we, you know, wedon't know.
And it's.
But it's those moments that wedo get to have that we share or carry
with a very quick story.
Again, this is not about me,but just to go back and, and Richard,

(51:07):
both Richard and his wife.
Right.
Just the nicest people on theplanet that they Were.
He was our guest on a groupcruise we did back in 2012.
We were able to arrange, youknow, he gave a private concert just
for us in the Walt Disney Theater.
And it's.
It was, you know, a top one ortwo moment I've ever had as a result
of this.

(51:27):
And at dinner, he sat at ourtable, and my kids were really young
then, and we're finishing updinner, and he says, hey, would it
be okay if we took your kidsover to the theater?
We want to go and see the show.
So I get my nap and start, youknow, wiping my mouth.
I said, yeah, yeah, come on,let's go.
And I cry.
Every time I tell the story,he puts his hand on my shoulder.
He goes, no, no, no.
You finish.

(51:48):
You have dessert.
Is it okay if we take your kids?
And I was.
You know, I don't think I everlet my parents take my kids at this
point.
And I said, sure.
And I have this vision, thisimage burned into my mind's eye of
Richard and his wife holdingmy two kids by their hands with.

(52:08):
Walking them to the WaltDisney Theater to hear music performed
that he wrote.
And I'm just like, I am theluckiest person.
And it was my.
My daughter's birthday isNovember 18th.
We.
It took a lot of planning tomake sure it was on Mickey Mouse's
birthday.
We had a little party for herthere, and he sang her happy birthday.
And I have a picture of him.
She's showing him this littlered, pink, fuzzy autograph book they

(52:33):
have.
And he's just watching herlike it's the most interesting thing
in the world.
I remember picking her up andhugging her and tears, just.
And I said, you betterremember this.
For the rest of your life.
And she does, right?
But it goes to the.
I loved and love being able tosort of share.
It's why I tell these stories,the human side of these people, in

(52:53):
the best possible light tothat point.
You know, when you see thingslike we hear the stories and you
see saving Mr. Banks, youknow, that Pl.
Traverse may have been alittle challenging to work with.
And in the movie and in yourbook, you talk about how she would
interrupt Dick, like, mid songand be like, let me show you what

(53:17):
these characters are supposedto do.
Let me show you what they'resupposed to say.
Was there ever, like, knowingthose stories and hearing those stories?
Was there ever a moment whereyou felt that Walt and.
Or the Shermans, maybe, eventhough they fought over the details,
may have genuinely admired andappreciated that kind of input?

(53:43):
The Shermans are very young atthis point and they've recently put
on salary at the Disney Studiobefore that.
They're working project to project.
I think they're just trying tomake this go as, as well as they
can.
I think Walt during this.
One of the things that Iadmire about Walt is how manipulative
he is with P.L.

(54:04):
travers.
Like Walt, I believe, has agood enough self knowledge to know
that he's a person who's usedto getting his way and so is Pamela
Travers.
And if they are both in theroom for days, this is going to end
poorly.
And so he comes up with thiselaborate excuse, yeah, I'm gonna

(54:26):
go to Palm Springs.
But I think that's mostly sothat he can't butt heads with her.
He's there when she arrives.
And the other really greatmanipulative thing that, that he
does is I think he knows thatPL Travers is probably not going
to like Disneyland very much,but he invites her to go down on
Easter Sunday.
And I believe it'sspecifically for something that they

(54:48):
don't.
We don't do this anymore at Disneyland.
This hasn't happened in decades.
But on Easter, they used tohave a turn of the century parade.
Ward Kimball, we were talkingabout Ward earlier, would bring his
car club down with their turnof the century automobiles.
They would have girls withdolls in turn of the century perambulators,
little prams going down there.

(55:10):
These are not cast members,these are not Disney employees, just
civic groups that would come in.
This was a lot of earlyDisneyland parades, were civic groups
that would come in.
Civic groups would come in anddress in their turn of the century
outfits.
And that would be in theirEaster bus.
And that would be the Easter parade.
I think what Walt's trying todo is like, hey, come see my park

(55:30):
come down.
Let's say at noon.
The parade is at 2, I believe.
And I think he knows thatthey'll get there a little bit late,
but they'll be at the front ofthe park while the parade's going
on.
And he's trying to convince P.L.
travers is one of her manyconcerns is that Walt's going to
turn this into a fantasy thatlooks like other Disney animated

(55:52):
films.
And it's not going to be aserious historical period piece.
And I think what he's invitingher to see is like, hey, look.
Yeah, we do things likeSleeping Beauty that are animated,
but hey, here's this parade inwhich we have a really good sense
of art direction about howturn of the century works, which
is when Mary Poppins is setoverseas, admittedly, but during

(56:13):
that period in an area that'sarranged visually to be kind of like
a period movie set, Main Street.
And so I think he's trying tokind of subtly influence her.
It's like, look, this is nothow you see Disney, but these are
possibilities that we havehere already.
We can do this.
And that's some of the greatstuff that you pull out.

(56:35):
And stories we haven't sort ofheard before to that depth about
those details and those conversation.
And, you know, we understandjust from hearing the stories that,
you know, she.
Details matter.
Right.
And she fought a lot overthose details, including some of
the linguistic ones.
Right.
It shouldn't be let's go fly a kite.

(56:56):
No, the proper thing is let'sgo and fly a kite, and I am going
to die on that hill.
Like, what are those littlebattles which maybe have sometimes
turned into big battles?
What do you think they revealabout her?
And is it her wanting to just win?
Is it a clash of British andAmerican sensibilities and speech?

(57:19):
Or is it just about how muchshe genuinely cared about every single
minute detail?
I think there's some of that.
About how much she cares aboutevery single minute detail.
I don't think that PamelaTrevors has a large business or social
support system.
She moves.

(57:40):
She has a home in England, butshe spends a lot of time in America.
She comes to America duringWorld War II.
She spends time overseas.
She travels quite a bit.
She seems to have thesetangential business relationships
with her American publisher,with an agent, with her British publisher,
with a lawyer.
But there doesn't seem to be astrong support system there for her.

(58:03):
And I think as a reactionarymechanism, she had become very controlling
of her own intellectualproperty as a way of protecting it.
But also, I think that by thetime we're up to 1964, I think that
was more kind of a habitualthing for her than something that
was necessary.
Like, some of her suggestionsare just crazy.

(58:26):
Like, we don't want any red inthe picture.
There's no red in London.
The only song I hear for MaryPoppins is Green Sleeves is like,
wait, that's like hundreds ofyears old.
I mean, you at least havemusic here that relates to the period,
and you want to put in what.
So there's just kind of thesecrazy suggestions.
But I think this is a defensemechanism that had been useful probably

(58:51):
in the 1940s, but becausethere's not a lot of people with
close connections with her, ithad just kind of expanded over time.
Is My take on this to thepoint where there is some overprotectiveness
that's happening in the 1960s.
But in that, there's somegenuine concerns that I understand
with her.
She's specifically concernedthat after the film's made, it's

(59:14):
going to be Walt Disney's MaryPoppins and not Pamela Travers Mary
Poppins.
And I get that.
Like, that that would besignificant for an author, especially
for an author that's createdmultiple books on the same character.
That was her primary public identity.
And so that's big.
So I get that she's concernedabout that.
But, yeah, some of this, Ithink, is overprotection.

(59:34):
By the time we get to the 1960s.
And Walt's smart to say, like,hey, here are some much younger people.
You can tell them what to do.
But also, everyone understandsthat Don degradi, Bob and Dick, they
don't have any ability tocontractually bind the Disney company
into doing anything, whereasWalt Disney would have had that ability.

(59:57):
So given that she seemed toobject to nearly every creative choice
that was made, do you thinkthe film ultimately works because
of or in spite of her involvement?
I don't think many of hersuggestions taken into the film at
all.
There are some things thatWalt's already interested in doing

(01:00:20):
that he presents as thingsthat he's giving in on.
Like, yes, we will have theturn of the century setting as opposed
to the Depression era, whenit's set in the books.
And, yes, we'll primarily havea British cast, not an all British
cast, but close.
There's only a few exceptionsto the all British cast.
So there's some things that hekind of gives in on, but I think

(01:00:43):
those are things that he wasplanning or very open to doing otherwise.
So there's this kind of faux negotiation.
The Poppins books aredeclining in popularity in the 1960s.
These are the primary sourceof PL Travers income.
And so she needs a movie to be made.
She was paid some money tooffer screen treatment, some ideas

(01:01:06):
for how to translate herstories into a screen property.
They are short stories.
There's not a unified plot inany of the books.
And so these are stories thatparents can read their kids, like
one a night until you getthrough the whole book.
They're those types of stories.
And so she needs some way tokind of leverage her income up in

(01:01:28):
the 1960s.
And so I think that, more thananything else, is the reason why
she relinquishes and finallydecides that this movie can go forward.
She becomes very wealthybecause of this, and her Books reach
a far larger number of peoplebecause of this.
But also, there's a decreasein the public's understanding of

(01:01:51):
PL Travers relationship toMary Poppins and an increase and
the perception that WaltDisney has a stronger relation to
Mary Poppins moving forward.
One thing that's great aboutyour book is as much as it is about
the movie, it's about the people.
Right.
We've talked about ShermanBrothers, we talked about Peter Travis.
We cannot have thisconversation without, you know, obviously,

(01:02:12):
Dick Van Dyke, and I thinkeven more so Julie Andrews and her
role in this.
Again, one of the greatmoments that I've ever had is being
able to, you know, have aconversation with Julie.
Like, this is the one I wasable to show my mom.
And she knew exactly who I wastalking to.
She didn't know who DickSherman is, but she knew who Julie
Andrews was.
So that, for me, was like abig moment.

(01:02:34):
Based on what you know andconversations that you've had.
What do you think it was likefor her stepping into this role that,
as we said earlier, is sort ofcarrying the weight of this very,
very big gamble that Disneyhas taken on it.
Yeah.
So she gives Walt all kinds ofopportunities not to move forward

(01:02:55):
with her.
And she's repeatedly surprisedthat Walt wants to work with her.
So Walt comes out to New Yorkand he's manipulated into seeing
Camelot so that he can seeJulie Andrews.
Everyone else on theproduction team already thought that
Julie Andrews was a good pickfor Mary Poppins, but they need to
convince Walt.

(01:03:16):
And so after seeing her, hemakes an offer to both her and to
her husband, Tony Walton,who's a set and costume designer
to work on the film.
And Julie Andrews thenexplains afterwards that she's pregnant,
and she assumes that this isgoing to be the end of it.

(01:03:38):
And Walt says, well, we'lljust wait until you're ready to be
in the movie and we can moveforward then.
This probably very helpfullypushes the production back by about
a year, maybe a little bitmore than that, where things can
kind of incubate and marinateand expand a little bit more.
And so that.
That becomes very useful.

(01:03:58):
But from Julie Andrewsperspective, she's interested in
moving into Hollywood.
She'd been in a previousBroadway play that was then being
adapted by Warner Brothers togo to the screen, but she was not
picked up to be in the screenversion of it.
But here's this opportunityfor her, and it's her opportunity

(01:04:20):
to show some people over atWarner Brothers that she can do this
type of work very well, butit's also a little bit disorienting
for her.
She talks in a number ofinterviews about how this was the
first time.
So when you record a Broadwaysoundtrack, you've rehearsed it for
months and you've performed itin front of the audience.

(01:04:42):
And you know where the sweetspots are.
You know where the audience isgoing to react and how they're going
to react most every night.
And that's reliable.
And you bring all thatinformation into the recording booth
with you.
You know how the listeners aregoing to hear this.
For Mary Poppins, she had totake some guesses about how to interpret
this, and that was a hurdlethat she needed to get over.

(01:05:05):
But this is also.
So I like to think of this book.
I like what you said about it.
That was very kind.
This is a book about makingMary Poppins, but it's beyond that.
A book about how Mary Poppinstransforms the lives of the people
who made it.
And so this is the momentwhere Julie Andrews career changes

(01:05:29):
irrevocably after this.
She works on a film that hasno music in it, and she also does
Sound of Music, which has alot of music in it.
But she moves from mostly astage personality to a screen personality
where she's able to handledramatic roles and musical roles,
which really expands out hercareer in interesting ways.

(01:05:50):
Yeah.
And it obviously was atransformative film, not just for
the careers of some of thepeople who were in it, but I think
for the Disney Company, too.
And I was thinking to videosand pictures I've seen of the premiere.
And there's dancers dressed aspenguins, there's chimney sweeps,
and there's Snow White.
Is there Snow White charactersare there greeting Walt and Lillian?

(01:06:12):
And I'm like, is this sort ofthe passing of the torch, sort of
metaphorically, of going fromanimation to the future, being not
just.
Not animation, but live actionand more importantly, musicals?
Yeah.
So, absolutely, this is the passing.
This is that premier at GramenChinese Theater, where all of key

(01:06:32):
characters from the past hooksthere, sleeping beauties, snow whites
there, the dwarves are there,Mickey's there.
This is Walt's past welcomingin this new type of film into the
Disney pantheon.

(01:06:53):
Walt had tried to make a filmlike this before with Babes in Toyland.
It wasn't nearly as successfulfor a number of reasons that we explore
in the book, but I think Waltknows that this is the point where
he had made a couple of runstowards doing something like this,
but this was the one thatworked out, and he was going to play
this premiere, very large,much in the way that he had done

(01:07:16):
with Snow white back in 1937.
And I don't want to spoil toomuch about the book because it's.
It's a fascinating read.
And again, you share so manystories that we've just never heard
before.
And you are.
You're such an incredible.
Not just storyteller, but researcher.
What for?
You know, because going in,you probably said, I know a lot about

(01:07:36):
this film already.
I know what was one of thebiggest surprises from an author's
perspective that you uncoveredthat maybe you didn't expect to find.
So, okay, so maybe a couple things.
I'd seen the film many times,but when I started watching it, like,
over and over again to writethe book, I was really surprised

(01:08:00):
by some of the camera decisions.
The director here wants tokeep the camera On David Tomlinson,
Mr. Banks, as much aspossible, even when other people
are speaking.
I was like, oh, yeah.
So here we are.
We're.
Visually, this is so DavidTomlinson's character.
Mr. Banks is also a characterwithout a lot of deep self knowledge

(01:08:22):
through most of the film.
And so he can't articulate hisstresses and how he's changing through
the film.
And so how the filmcompensates for this is the camera
stays on him in really longshots while other people are talking,
other people are singing.
It's on David Tomlinson.
So that his gestures andfacial expressions are the way that

(01:08:43):
the audience gets to see kindof sequence by sequence, how the
transformation for him ismoving through the story.
And so I thought that was.
So next time you watch MaryPoppins, just watch the shots of
David Tomlinson.
Brilliant.
Yeah.
Dick Van Dyke is singing.
Camera's on David Tomlinson.
Dick Van dyke is telling Mr.Banks how poor a job he's doing as

(01:09:11):
a parent, that kids are onlyyoung for a little bit of time.
We aren't watching Dick sing,which would be the natural camera
position here.
We're watching how Mr. Banksis absorbing this, and that happens
all through the film.
So I thought that was a greatway to watch the film.
If you haven't seen in awhile, watch the visual and watch

(01:09:33):
the visuals of Mr. Banks andalso appreciate what a fabulous job
David Tomlinson does in thisrole in terms of carrying the main
story mostly through actionsand facial reactions.
The other story that I didn'tknow before I started in on this

(01:09:55):
was that Glynis Johns wasunder the impression that the studio
was interviewing her to beMary Poppins and not to be Mrs. Banks.
And so, yeah, so I Thoughtthat was a fabulous story that I

(01:10:15):
hadn't known before, where shecomes in and has lunch with everybody
over in the choral room at the studio.
And she believes that she'sthere because Walt is considering
her as the lead role in Mary Poppins.
Apparently, the communicationto her was they were considering
her for the film Mary Poppins,and she had made the leap that she
was going to be the lead and amuch younger character in the film.

(01:10:37):
And so I think that was pretty uncomfortable.
At a certain point in thisconversation, everyone at the table
simply just kind of looks toWalt as if to say, well, this is
your company.
You need to handle thisproblem right now.
No one else is going to cleanthis one up.

(01:10:58):
It made me think, like, you probably.
You read those stories, youhear those stories, you're like,
God, I'd give anything to be afly on the wall in that room.
What moment?
Right, what moment?
If you could pick one, like,if you could be in the room just
to sort of watch that momenthappen, what do you think it would
be?
Oh, if I could be in the roomto watch, you know, I'd actually
think I'd be in the room.

(01:11:18):
The first time that theSherman Brothers go up to meet Walt
in the studio, they had notbeen to the studio before this.
We talked earlier about howthe Sherman Brothers were struggling
financially.
They had worked with therecording arm, the Disneyland Records,
Buena Vista Records.
They'd worked with that arm ofthe studio.

(01:11:40):
And their contact there was aperson named Jimmy Johnson.
They had mostly met JimmieJohnson at outside studios.
So the studios at Disney arearranged for voice actors and for
symphony groups to record soundtracks.
There's not a good studiothere to record pop music.
So they mostly meet them atoutside studios where they record

(01:12:02):
the songs for Annette andother things.
And so it's their first timeover there.
And when they're driving overthere, they have 35 cents in their
pockets between them.
And they see the kiosk, andthey're unsure if they're going to
have to pay to park.

(01:12:23):
And so they don't know what to do.
And so they instead park downthe street and walk back over to
Jimmy Johnson's office, whichis ground floor.
It's not in the animation building.
It's right across the way fromthe animation building.
And then they find out thatthey're going to go up and meet Walt,
and Bob wants to know Walt who.

(01:12:50):
And they've been asked towrite a song for a movie called the
Horsemasters.
And they have three versionsof the song for the Horsemasters.
And Jimmie Johnson says, we'regoing to go over there and you're
going to play these versionsfor Walt, and he can kind of make
a decision.
And so they initially saythey'll make him a demo.
And they say, no, we're goingto do this today.

(01:13:12):
We're just going to go upthere and play the 16 bars that you
have of these songs for Walt.
They go up there and they meetWalt, and Walt has this moment of
confusion.
There's a lot of people thathe works with.
He's never met the Shermans before.
He thinks that they are herebecause they're going to be writing
songs for a film that wouldlater be called the Parent Trap.

(01:13:34):
At the moment, it had earlier titles.
Petticoats and Bluejeans wasone of the only titles.
Susan and I was another title.
And so he starts talking tothem about music for the Parent Trap.
And the Sherman Brothers,they're young, they're very confused.
They have no idea what's going on.

(01:13:55):
And so they just sit there fora long time and let Walt kind of
go on about this movie withHaley Mills.
Also.
They have no idea who HayleyMills is.
She'd been in Pollyanna andsome overseas films at this point,
but this wasn't ringing anybells for them.
And at a certain point, theyhave to interrupt him and say, well,

(01:14:17):
we are here because we wrotesongs for the Horse Masters and we
thought that's what you wanted.
And then he gets a little bitupset and he has them play the songs
and he picks one.
It's called Strumming Song.
It's in the picture.
But because of thatmisunderstanding that he explains

(01:14:37):
this entire other picture tothem at the end of the meeting, he
says, well, we'll get you somescripts for this other thing and
see if you can come up withsome music for that as well.
If there hadn't been thatmisunderstanding, the Sherman brothers
might have gone up and playedtheir three versions of Struman's
song, or at least, you know, aversion, until they found one that

(01:14:57):
Walt liked and that.
That might have been it.
But this set up a chain ofsequences that then began to change
their careers irrevocably.
And it was.
It was a mistake, you know,that happened.
I would have loved to seenthat, because I'd love to see Dick
and Bob up there very young,and they only own one suit a piece.

(01:15:22):
And the one suits they owndressed there, far more stiff and
formal than most people at the studio.
Kind of like what their eyesare doing, how they're trying to
communicate to each other andto Jimmy Johnson, like, what is happening
here.
And then also get to hear Waltkind of riff on what he thinks.
This movie, this other movieabout kids and parents not understanding

(01:15:42):
each other.
Big theme in the 60s for theDisney Studio, how that's working
here.
And this is taking place inWalt's office.
This is Walt's office.
Third floor of the animation building.
Yeah.
Which we now all can picturein our mind's eye.
Because we've seen photos orwe've been there, thanks to D20,
the archives, et cetera.
Right.
So you can walk in.
And there's the outer officewhere the two secretaries were.

(01:16:03):
And then there's an innerlounging area where there's seats
and a piano.
And so they would have gone inthere to play music for them.
And they would have left andgotten scripts on the way out.
And Jimmy Johnson, who workswith Disneyland Records.
Thinks this is all gone fantastically.

(01:16:24):
Because what he's trying to doin his world is Disneyland Records
is kind of like this strangeoffshoot at the Disney Company.
And he's trying to tie it moreclosely to its main product, which
is film.
And he's like, we now have aconnection between Disneyland Records
for original music for this film.

(01:16:44):
And maybe for this other film.
So it's worth working reallywell for him.
So as you were talking, I love.
Again, I've never heard thesestories before.
Which is what the book is all about.
It really is the stories thatyou've never heard.
The conversations that, youknow, you wish you could have been
a part of.
So when I said earlier what anincredible, you know, not just researcher

(01:17:05):
you are, but raconteur and storyteller.
It made me start thinkingabout, for you, this process.
Right.
This.
You did not.
This book is not, you know,you didn't write this over a weekend.
Tell me a little bit about theresearch process for you.
You know, how much of this isdone on your own?
How much access, if any, doyou have to the archives and to some

(01:17:27):
of those people so that you can.
Because this really is thedefinitive book to sort of how this
film got made.
And again, it is as much aboutas what's put on the silver screen.
As is about the people.
Yeah.
So my research process is thatI have here on the laptop.
A number of files that havedifferent films or artists names

(01:17:52):
on them.
And it's kind of like fillthem in over time.
A lot of research for me isgoing to archives, going to individual
collections.
Hopefully looking for something.
I'm Looking for, but oftenbeing surprised by things I find
there that I didn't know wouldbe there.
And so I keep really longoutlines going for a lot of things.

(01:18:15):
So right now I've been workingon a biography of sorts of Mary Blair.
And that was like the ShermanBrothers thing.
That was one of these, like,list and files, boxes of stuff.
I have these plastic storage boxes.
And so I'll.

(01:18:36):
That's kind of like a mentalorganization thing for me.
Things go in this box for theSherman Brothers or these boxes for
the Sherman, and so on.
And so when it gets to acertain point and I can kind of see
in there, it's like, oh, yeah,I've got enough stuff to really write
something here.
Like, I have enoughinformation to kind of push this
through into a space thatpeople haven't seen before and to

(01:18:57):
make some connections that Idon't think I've been overtly made
before.
Then I can really start outlining.
I usually work with reallylong outlines.
The outline for the ShermanBrothers, I think, was about 150
pages, where all of my quotes,including quotes from your fabulous
interviews.
Those are things I wentthrough all the interviews for the

(01:19:19):
Shermans to arrange things out.
So much of the book would befrom their perspective.
And then from that.
Once I have that done, I start.
Start drafting it.
You mentioned earlier abouthow Mary Poppins was not a screenplay
based on this long novel, buta lot of sort of almost disconnected

(01:19:42):
stories that were brought together.
And I think.
I think that's one of thethings that I picked up about the
way you put this together, howyou constructed this book, because
it almost.
It reads more like a storyitself, not just history, which sort
of mirrors the way Disney tookthese scattered chapters into a very
cohesive narrative.

(01:20:03):
Yeah, well, I think that'sgenerally what any biographer or
nonfiction writer's essentialjob is, is to take large amounts
of research and maybe also dosome research beyond that to fill
in gaps or to add depth inareas that.
That are important and then toarrange it ideally, in a way that's

(01:20:27):
accessible and enjoyable for areading audience.
And for me, beyond that, whatI like to think in the best moments
of my book, hopefully readerswill feel like they're having a secondhand,
vicarious sense of being inthe room in some of those situations
with the Sherman Brothers orwith Walt or with Ward Kimball or

(01:20:50):
other things like that.
It'll help put them in there.
So with that, I rely a lot on photographs.
I rely a lot on film that'staken to kind of figure out how all
this worked visually as well.
Well, I think that's thebeauty as you go through it and as
you tell these stories, as youread the book.
Now, because we have context,because we've been to or seen photos

(01:21:14):
of Walt's office, we've seensaving Mr. Banks, we can imagine
in our mind's eye what theseconversations look like.
And again, I can talk.
We have been talking for hours.
I would say I could talk toyou for hours about this, but we
could talk for hours becauseyou don't just sort of talk and you
sort of.
Again, I love the way youweave the narrative from very early
on to the final preparationsand the filming of it and the post

(01:21:37):
production and the artworkfrom Peter Ellenshaw.
I mean, there's so much moredepth that you go into and it really
does sort of paint such avivid picture of the processes and
the challenges in a way thatis not just about what we see on
screen, but all the thingsthat have to happen.

(01:21:57):
All these sometimes jigsawpuzzle pieces that don't look like
they're going to connect andthen somehow, you know, magically,
Walt and the Sherman brothersand everybody involved is able to
put them together.
Yeah, for me, like one of the.
It's always one of like theeye opening moments of working on
a project is when I have allthe stories, you know, all the interviews,

(01:22:19):
all the things that werewritten kind of like arranged out
the things that I think areessential in a timeline.
I can suddenly look at that aslike, oh, this is happening almost
at the same time as this.
So these two things arecommunicating with each other almost
clearly.
Like, you can see things inthat timeline that aren't necessarily
picked up on elsewhere.

(01:22:40):
You can see where theconnections are happening as, as
the project moves forward.
Yeah, it's.
It's even against him.
I loved how you talk about insome of the later chapters about,
you know, having to.
Again, this was something weknow he sort of done it with like
Alice comedies.
But how, you know, blendingthe choreography and the matte test
and the looks of Cherry TreeLane, how much preparation had to

(01:23:03):
go into it even before theystarted rolling cameras.
Yeah, yeah, these are, this isa, this is a project for a very mature
studio and a very maturefilmmaker set of filmmakers.
This is not something thatcould have been handled earlier in
Disney's career because itrelies on so many different technologies
and our artistic processes,which are groundbreaking at the time.

(01:23:25):
Right.
Again, a lot of that, thatmatte work and the, the Abi works,
the sodium screen processesand things like that which had just
never been done before.
The stop motion, which thestudio had only recently started
to experiment with.
They talked about that.
The existencio.
That's where it comes from theother day, the audio animatronics
that are included in the film.

(01:23:45):
So there's a lot of thingsthat come together in this that are
relatively young for thestudio as well.
Yeah.
But again, it comes back to people.
And I think there's so muchthat you share that really humanizes
the experience.
Not just from the Shermanbrothers and Travers, but even some
of the.
The child actors and how notjust wonderful and sometimes challenging

(01:24:08):
and technically demanding.
Some of the scenes and thingsthat they had to do were.
Yeah, yeah.
Karen Dotrice loses a tooth.
Well, I mean, you know,because she's young, they're just.
The baby teeth are falling out.
And so there's.
There's things with Workingwith young children actors that you

(01:24:32):
don't prepare for and aresurprising when they happen.
So she loses a tooth whilethey're filming the first sequence.
So they have to come up with afake tooth very quickly, otherwise
there's no visual continuity.
Her parents had worked withthe rsc, a Royal Shakespeare Company
in England.
And so she had had some vocaltraining for the song she's supposed

(01:24:54):
to sing, asking for a new nanny.
And they had overseas, taughther to sing it with a operatic vibrato.
And so, yeah, the greatstories that I had the opportunity
to learn while working on the project.
And I think when you read thebook and then go back and watch Mary

(01:25:17):
Poppins again, you look at thefilm with such a deeper understanding.
And I think it's.
What I love about it is that almost.
It's less of a reflection ofthe time that it was made as almost.
It's still a story.
And the reason why I think itstill has something urgent to say

(01:25:37):
today in terms of lessons forkids and lessons for parents.
So what do you think makesthis film specifically?
We use the word timeless alot, but it is.
It's timeless in a way thatespecially other musicals aren't.
Yeah, it's.
It's timeless because I thinkit's commenting on things that we
still struggle with today.

(01:26:00):
I've got kids, they justgraduated from high school.
Happens fast, doesn't it?
It does happen fast.
Yes, it does.
But I'll.
You know, I'm gonna go home and.
Watch Mary Poppins and cryagain about my.
About my kids being in college.
What year are they in college?
Just got sophomore and asenior, so.
I'll have two freshmen.

(01:26:21):
Sorry, Junior and your senior.
Oh, God, it is going too fast.
But you know, I do my best tokind of keep up with their interests
and how their world works, butalso I find like a lot of it overwhelming,
like how much time that theycan spend online and how they find

(01:26:42):
emotional connections throughscreen mediated experience.
Experiences which would not behow I would most want to make those
connections, but it, but itworks for them.
I try to keep up as much as Ican on their language, on their interest.
Dad, we don't say thatanymore, right?
Yeah.
That was so two weeks ago.
Cool beans.

(01:27:04):
Yeah.
So I think that in a worldwhere technology and culture changes
deeply every 10 years, this isa movie about generational divides.
And if you look over likeWestern history or even history of
America, if you were born in1800 and in 1850, you would have

(01:27:31):
things like power presses andsteam engines, but the amount of
change would be minisculecompared to a 50 year period during
our lifetimes.
The technology that we grew upwith in the 70s and 80s, almost all
of it's entirely gone now.
None of it's there.
It's become fodder for latenight comedians.

(01:27:53):
And so this idea of a changingworld that creates a disconnection
between parents and childrenbecause they live in two different
realities, I think is verypertinent to us today.
And I think that's one of thereasons why this feels timeless,
because it speaks to conditionthat we have now.
Certainly from a parentperspective, I'm not, you know, it's

(01:28:15):
not hyperbole when I say thatthis film continues to have a profound
impact on me because when Iwould sit in my office and my kids
would come in and say, do youwant to have a tea party?
Do you want to go, I'm goingto start crying again?
Do you want to play ball?
Do you want to watch this thing?
You want to do whatever?
It's so easy for us to belike, no, no, I got to finish this

(01:28:35):
thing.
And I thought of Mr. Banks and I.
And I think there's a rippleeffect to it because when I either
speak to entrepreneurs, whereI speak to, you know, don't say no
to your children.
Like, the work can wait.
You'll stay up a half hourlater to finish what you have to
do.
But don't say no to your children.
Because I think of, you know,Mr. Banks, regret, and the way the

(01:28:57):
children view him.
And I learned a lot from Mary Poppins.
And to that end I learned alot from your book, which gives me
even a much deeperappreciation for the film, for the
actors, for everything that itwent in, and certainly a deeper appreciation
for you.
I have.
I've appreciated you and thework that you've done.
Thank you very much.
Incredible respect for the.

(01:29:19):
The what you've put out overthe years that have really enriched
the lives of so many peoplewho are Disney fans.
Helping to share stories.
We were talking earlier about,you know, Jim Corkus, that same thing,
sharing these stories that wehaven't heard before.
And without question, that iswhat this book does, man.
I have 9,000 other questionsfor you, but if.

(01:29:41):
If what do you want a reader.
What's the one thing you hopea reader takes away from the book?
Well, I hope the one thing thereader takes away from the book is
exactly what you're saying, that.
That it doesn't end with thebook, but it takes them back to the
film to see it again, and thento feel deeper or, you know, maybe
more satisfying or a broaderconnection with the film, to feel

(01:30:04):
like they have a sense of whatwas behind this all.
The film was about personalchange, particularly for Mr. Banks
and to a lesser extent, forthe Banks children in the movie.
But the story behind the filmis about how this deeply changed
the lives of all the people,all the key people who worked on
it.
They had one life before thefilm, and they had a very different,

(01:30:27):
different life after the filmwas over, including.
For Walt, which is why I'massuming the title of the book is
Making Mary Poppins.
The first name you put is theSherman Brothers, then Walt Disney,
and then the creation of theclassic film.
Yeah, it had a different titlewhen it was sent out to publishers,
when my agent sent it out topublishers, and the publisher that

(01:30:50):
bought it, Norton.
Norton, decided that MakingMary Poppins was going to communicate
what the book was about farbetter than what I had put there,
which maybe had, like, alittle more literary bent and, like,
transformation of thecharacters and stuff like that.
It's like, don't worry aboutMaking Mary Poppins.
Everyone understands.
I was like, okay, that's fine.

(01:31:11):
It is a fascinating read.
And again, I think it'll giveanybody who reads it and then goes
back to watch the film a muchdeeper, much greater appreciation.
So buy the book, read MakingMary Poppins, the Sherman Brothers,
Walt Disney, and the creationof the classic film by Todd James
Pierce.
Then go and watch Saving Mr.Banks, and then go and watch Mary
Poppins again, not just alone,but if they're around, bring your

(01:31:34):
parents, and if you have them,bring your children, because it is
definitely a film that is appreciated.
More as time goes on.
Tom James Pierce, thank you somuch for sharing these stories.
More importantly, for sharingyour time today.
Thank you so much for havingme on, Lou.
I appreciate it.

(01:31:55):
The journey that led me herereally started back in 2003 when
I wrote my very first WaltDisney World trivia book, which is
one of the reasons why I loveincluding a Disney Trivia Question
of the Week almost every weekon the show.
It's not just a fun way foryou to hopefully learn something
new, pay it forward and shareit with a friend.
And more importantly, you canenter for a chance to win a Disney
Prize package and this week'strivia contest is brought to you.

(01:32:18):
It's the final countdown by myfavorite foodie event of the year,
the Walt Disney World Swan andDolphin Food and Wine Classic.
It's happening this Friday andSaturday, November 14th and 15th,
right in the heart of WaltDisney World.
It is an amazing night ofincredible food, drinks, live music
and Disney magic under the stars.
More importantly, Your singlePay1Price ticket includes, wait for

(01:32:41):
it, unlimited I'm smiling foodand beverages with dishes from award
winning chefs and some of theincredible restaurants at the Swan
and Dolphin like MichaelMina's Bourbon Steak, Todd English's
Blue Zoo.
There's wine, beer, creativecocktails from around the world all
on the beautiful causewayright in between the Swan and Dolphin
Resort.
It really is one of thehighlights of my year.

(01:33:03):
I cannot wait to go.
I will be there this Friday soif you're going to go, let me know.
I'd love to meet up.
We can grab some food together.
Tickets are on sale now.
You can get all the detailsover at Swan Dolphin food and wine
classic.com and I hope to seeyou there this weekend.
Now before we get to thisweek's trivia question, let's go
back review last week's andselect our winner.

(01:33:23):
So I gave you an extra week toanswer this Halloween themed trivia
question because in MuppetsHaunted Mansion, which is one of
my favorite things that Disneyhas ever put on Disney, I asked you
to tell me what is the name ofthe magician whose mysterious disappearance
100 years earlier set theentire story in motion and really
inspired the haunting of theMuppet Haunted Mansion itself.

(01:33:44):
First, thanks to so many ofyou entered got this one correct.
Shared stories about you andyour family gathering around the
TV to watch Haunted MuppetsHaunted Mansion every year.
And the answer of course isthe great MacGuffin which is a really
clever nod to the filmmakingturn MacGuffin which is often like
it's an object or an eventthat drives the plot but isn't necessarily

(01:34:06):
important itself.
It's almost like a redherring, but it's also like a wink,
not just to movie buffs, butto really the entire story structure.
Because the Great MacGuffin'sdisappearance is what brings Gonzo
and Pepe and the rest.
Of the gang into the Harder Mansion.
And then hilarity ensues.
Anyway, I took all the correctentries, randomly selected one, and
last week you were playing fora WWO keychain, stickers pin and

(01:34:28):
a mystery prize.
And last week's winner, therandomly selected, is Chris Shioda.
So Chris, congratulations.
I'll get your prize packageout to you right away.
And if you played last weekand didn't win, that's okay, because
here's your next chance toenter in this week's not Walt Disney
World, but Mary Poppins Trivia Challenge.
So this one is simple andstraightforward because in Mary Poppins,

(01:34:51):
again, arguably one of, if notvery few, perfect movies.
Let me know if you agree or disagree.
What is the name of the bankwhere Mr. Banks works?
What's the name of the bankwhere Mr. Bank works?
You have until Sunday,November 16th at 11:59pm Eastern
to go to www.radio.com clickon the Week's podcast.
Use the form there.

(01:35:11):
And again this week you'regoing to play for a keychain, stickers,
pin and a mystery prize.
Maybe one that I'll bring backfrom the Disney Destiny.
And speaking of which, staytuned to my Instagram.
I'm going to have a DisneyDestiny non podcast related, very
easy to enter, huge prizepackage up for grabs this week.
So good luck on both and have fun.

(01:35:37):
Foreign.
That'S going to do it for thisweek's show.
Thank you again for taking thetime to tune in.
This is every week.
Thanks to Todd Pierce forcoming out to Walt Disney World and
joining me.
If you want to watch the videoof our conversation.
Not that there's any sort ofgrand things to watch, it's just
two guys in the Polynesiantalking about Mary Poppins.
You can find this and plentyof other videos on the WWRADO YouTube

(01:36:00):
channel@YouTube.com WWradio Ialso have links in the show notes
over@www.com to where you canpick up Todd's book.
And once again, thank you,thank you, thank you again for taking
the time to tune in this week.
I hope you enjoyed our conversation.
Be sure to stay tuned tocoverage from and about the Disney
Destiny this week.
And again, this opportunitywhich I am so privileged to have

(01:36:22):
and grateful for, does nothappen without you.
So thank you very much forthat gift.
I cannot wait to share thatexperience with with you as it happens
over the next few days, andcertainly on the podcast.
And I hope that even in a verysmall way, this show and the community
that you have created broughtyou a little bit of magic in return.
If it did and you dig thisweek's show, please help spread the

(01:36:43):
word.
And share it with a friend.
And as always, and I thinkeven in the spirit of Mary Poppins,
please remember to be kind, tochoose the good, be the good.
Positivity has a ripple effectand I promise, promise you will feel
better as a result of it.
Have an amazing day and evenbetter tomorrow.
I love and appreciate you.
So until next time.
Thanks again.
See ya.

(01:37:04):
Hi everyone, it's Elizabethfrom Massachusetts.
It's been a minute.
Few things, though.
Anyone who just came home,like myself from the Run Disney Wine
and Dine Weekend, super bigcongrats to any and all the races
that you ran.
It was such a fun and greatweekend and the weather was beautiful.
Secondly, just finishedlistening to the most recent episode

(01:37:24):
about spooky things to add tothe parks and I would definitely
pay for your Epcot idea, Lou.
I think that kind of remindsme of like the festival of holidays
where you can go around andlearn like different traditions from
each of the countries.
And I would totally, like payfor that if I could also have a nice
drink in hand.
And I'm kind of like walkingaround with the tour guide per se.

(01:37:48):
I think that'd be cute.
Or just even adding them tothe countries as you walk around.
The one thing that I've alwayskind of thought would be like a cute
little addition or likesomething fun for the guest experience
is actually trick or treatingat the resort.
So kind of like how there areChristmas trees during the holiday
time that you can visit per hotel.

(01:38:10):
It'd be like so fun to havejust like a trick or treat spot per
hotel.
So, like, if you were thereactually on the day or close enough,
you know, there could be likea designated this is the trick or
treat day or whatever.
Actually, I guess that doesn't matter.
Disney.
It would just be a Halloween.
Just need to be a certain day.
I just think it'd be fun forfamilies and kids to, you know, kind

(01:38:32):
of do while they're visiting.
Anyway, hope everyone's havinga great day.
It is Tuesday today.
Halloween is this upcoming Friday.
So happy Halloween to everyoneand make it a great week.
Bye.
Well, it sounds pretty good.
In fact, that's just the right spirit.

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846 · Mary Poppins: Untold Stories and the Making of a Disney Classic

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}846 · Mary Poppins: Untold Stories and the Making of a Disney Classic