Hilary Jackson, head of the Cuyahoga County (Ohio) chapter of Moms For Liberty joins the show to talk about the organization, its mission, responds to criticisms and shares explosive details about the Department of Education that she recieved while being briefed by the White House.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now this is the FCB Podcast Network. This is pillow
Talk with Ali Michelle on the FCB Podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome back to an episode of pillow Talk with Ali Michelle.
Today we're diving into one of the most talked about
movements in education and parenting, Moms for Liberty. Whether you
agree with them or not, they've become a powerful voice
in the school board elections, curriculum debates, and larger conversations
about role parents, what role parents play, and the decisions
(00:43):
they make on their children's education. Joining me as Hillary
the president here in Cuyahoga County the Cuyahoga County chapter
Moms for Liberty to share what the group really stands for,
how they see their mission, and to respond to some
tough questions and criticisms you've probably seen in the head lines.
And she has some pretty deep discoveries to go over.
(01:05):
This is an opportunity to go beyond the sound bites
here directly from the source and better understand why so
many parents feel drawn to the movement. Hillary, thank you
for being here.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Of course, thank you Alie for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yes, so we were going over here briefly about what
you were talking about, but I wanted to ask a
very very tough question for you before we get into
this stuff. Okay, yeah, of course, Okay, if you could
describe politics in a smell, using only mom vocabulary, how
(01:40):
would you describe politics? I know it's a tough one.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
You know. Actually it's not because I the reason why
I was laughing is because I literally just said this
last night. I don't know how you knew. I don't
know how you knew this, but I did. And it's
especially as a mom. You walk into a room and
you smell like the old underwear, right, but you don't
(02:09):
see it, but you smell it. You know it's there.
So you're driving yourself crazy because you cannot find it anywhere,
but you know, you know, you can't move on to
anything else until you find it. And then once you
really start taking the time to dig in and look
under the cushions, it was there all along. And that's
(02:32):
how I you know, that's definitely how politics works. Is
you know, if you're a person of discernment and intuition,
and frankly, if you have something in between your ears,
you know to question everything and you know that what
you see isn't what always you know it's not always
the reality right, and you you know, you you almost
(02:53):
second guess yourself, you know, am I am I conspiracy
theorist for thinking that something is off and then come
to find out, Yeah, you know, as as you as
you investigate more or as just sometimes as simple as
time goes on, you find out that you were right.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
So that is you found that dirty underwear.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I found dirt.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yes, cool, so dirty underwear. But I love the analogy
you connected there because you just got to flip over
a few cushions and you'll find, you know, you'll find
the answers that are there. Okay, so we can uh,
you know, with the media and everything, so some people
(03:33):
might get wind of this and twist the words, you know,
fake news, fake media. And they've even quoted Moms for
Liberty in the media, Moms for Liberty. Moms for Liberty
is often painted as decisive or dangerous. So for example,
like the local like a local. His name is Nate Brown,
(03:54):
honesty for Ohio education nonprofits. He said, quote, Moms for
Liberty is an organization that is degrading our democracy. They
played to division, anger, and ignorance. Uh. They also noted
that they use multiple social media platforms to teach teachers
and school officials. Uh to advocate the about the abolition
(04:15):
of the Department of Education, advanced conspiracy propaganda and spread
hate imaginary and rhetoric, imaginary and rhetoric against LGBTQ community,
all these things in a man in sixty minutes said
he accused of Mom's liberty dodging questions, And they behaved evasively,
like how do you how do you address fake news media?
(04:37):
And that'll go into actually what we were just kind
of talking about before the show.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, I mean that's a lot of words, right, and
and you know, fortunately we live in a country where
you can say all of those words without any context
or whether or not they're true. So as far as uh,
if we could kind of break down his his statement,
because again, like you were reading it and I was
(05:03):
like all over the place, like wait, what where did
he get that? So what was his first his first accusation?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
He said, Mom quote Moms for Liberty is an organization
that is degrading our democracy. They played to they played
to division, anger, and ignorance.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
So as far as degrading our democracy, I think that
what we're doing is we're actually trying to remind people
that we live in a democracy, and better yet, we
actually live in a constitutional republic where we have a
set of you know, a set of laws in our
constitution that we are to abide by. And a democracy
(05:45):
is is a little bit different than that. So say,
for instance, in a democracy, this is a very extreme
situation right where we as a people decide to vote
that you know, murder should be legal and the majority wins. Well,
there you go. Now it's a law. So obviously we
have a set of principles. Again, that was very extreme.
(06:06):
But I move and they follow me.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
It's okay. She has kids in the background, by the way.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Now that this is this is they're working on working
on my house.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Oh I can't even hear it.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Oh you can't. Oh, perfect, you don't hear the banging. Okay, awesome,
But uh, you know, we have a set of principles
in our constitution and that is what we're supposed to
you know, abide by in all aspects of government, local, state,
you know, foreign, domestic. Right. So dismantling that what certain
(06:46):
people's ideas of democracy is, well, well, sure, if it's
if it's not you know, if it's not constitutional, you
can call it dismantling all day long. That's fine with me.
With the Department of Education in and being you know,
a vehicle for for hate and discrimination, that couldn't be
(07:07):
further from the truth. Obviously, we're going to get into
the Department of Education and and why we believe it
should be dismantled, But it has absolutely nothing to do
with discriminating against a certain uh you know, religion, politics,
you know where you came from, that has you know,
even the type of schooling. You know, we're going to
(07:28):
be talking about public, private, and higher education institutions today.
So all all that really is is Moms for Liberty
stands for truth. We we stand for transparency. And the
biggest thing is that we believe that parents are the
(07:50):
first and foremost providers of education in their child's life,
and that is constitutional. One hundred years ago, in a
Supreme Court case Peers versus the Society of Sisters, the
Supreme Court ruled that children are not a mere creature
(08:12):
of the state. Children belong to their parents. And that
is in all aspects, uh, you know, medically educational. But
of course where the gray area comes is somebody else's
opinion of ethics. Right, So a lot of the issues
that Moms for Liberty face faces right now is, you know,
(08:34):
if a school thinks it's ethical, or if one teacher
thinks it's ethical to change that student's pronounce without informing
the parent, they should be able to do so. Or
if you know, or if the parents think that it's
ethical to you know, to transition their child medically, then
(08:57):
they should be able to do so. So, of course,
there is a line between what is right and what
is wrong. And the good news is that we have
that in our constitution. So that is what we that's
what we're about. We're enforcing the and of course my
earring fellow mom mode, yeah, mess expressure here. So we're
(09:21):
we're forcing those ideals and the ideals of our founding
fathers in the principles of our country and and following
the constitution. You know, to a tee with those ideals
and morals in mind, are you banning books? No? No,
I would I mean write all of the books, you know,
I am I like to say this, I don't ever
(09:43):
want to yuck anybody's young, right, But of course is
it appropriate, well, it should become in sense. Is it
appropriate for a you know, for a kindergartener have access
to a book that explains how to perform sex acts
and that sounds crazy. It's true. We have had books
(10:06):
in elementary school, public libraries that have that have those
things in there. Is that appropriate? No? Do I think
that that author should be you know, cancel?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
No?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Do I think those books should be let on fire?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
No?
Speaker 3 (10:24):
But put those books in a public library, put those
books in a bookstore.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
It doesn't need jurisdiction. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Well, and how crazy is that.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
There is?
Speaker 3 (10:35):
There's age restrictions in the publishing of these books. You know,
we can't follow the simple you know what the public
you know what the publishers say that why?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's the question that why do they
want our kids to read these I heard some crazy
stuff during our city hall meeting and.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I was like, what oops, not only, but not only
why do you want the kids to read them? The
next question is why don't you want the parents to know?
That's what is actually happening as well? Is that and
we'll get into that too, and what that's called because
that is a violation. Why what's the problem with parents
(11:20):
having that information? Why? Why is it an issue for
parents to offer consent. So I mean that's even you know,
the most extreme cases. Keep the books in the library. Fine,
you know, more for you know, for the older kids. Okay,
keep the books in the library. But if you're going
to have that type of material, it needs to be
(11:40):
parental consent needs to be given.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yes, the permissions, Yes, yes, yes, yes, my kids school
is so great. And before we go to break, I
wanted to say that they do set like if they're
teaching about you know, possible you know, essay abuse at
home or sexual abuse at home, like can we talk
about this topic? We will. This is like what it
looks like what we're going to be saying, and we
sign off on it, which I'm very proud and I'm
(12:03):
very happy that my school does this, especially like my
girls are victims of very crazy you should never have
happened to a child. So I do like that they
do send that out. But before we go and break,
I have a yes or no question. Do you think
teachers and parents should be working closer together in the school?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yes? Absolutely, And and I've yet to meet me personally
to meet a teacher that thinks that that's a bad idea.
So the reason why we're having a lot of this
discourse and disconnect is from the top down, and we'll
get into that too. When you have National Teachers Association,
(12:47):
you know, teachers unions and teachers associations put in their
agenda that, you know, despite what families think, or despite
what executive orders, or despite what President Trump thinks, we're
going to do these things anyway that alienates half of
your parents, you know. And it's it's a monster, these
(13:13):
unions and the way that they are controlling almost every
aspect of what's going on in our public schools today.
It's it's it's devastating and it's real. For instance, we
have this past summer, there was a summit for the
(13:33):
National Educators Association and in that in one of their
agenda items, it was they were calling Trump a fascist.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
So but you can think that, and you can say that, sure, okay, fine,
but what what does it have to do with education?
What does it have to do with the crisis and
education that we have right now, as far as you know,
literacy and reading comprehension, What does that have to do
with anything?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Right right, We'll get into that at the break. So yeah,
we'll be right back welcome back from the break. Joining
me is Hillary the President here in Kyahog County. The chapter,
I'm sorry, the chapter of Kyahoga County Moms for Liberty.
(14:26):
She's here talking of what they stand for, and she
has some pretty breaking news for us today. And the
flora is yours.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Awesome, Thank you, Ali. So I was a few weeks
ago I was invited to a briefing with the Department
of Education, and you know, I'm still pinching myself over that.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
But congratulations, by life, thank you.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
It was. It was awesome, very small and very intimate,
so we were able to ask a lot of questions
and we were able to really cover a lot of information.
So the the main thing, the main purpose of this
briefing was to of course, uh discuss, you know what
the Department of Ed, you know what the Department of Education,
(15:14):
what they were supposed to be doing, what they are doing,
their plans for dismantling, and and what's you know, what's
to happen going forward. So the Department of Education, they
are supposed to be the the department that over you know,
oversees you know, you know, a public some you know,
some private institutions. And then of course, you know, higher
(15:36):
uh higher education institutions, and a lot of that is
to one make sure that they are in compliance, you know,
in compliance with our with our federal laws, especially if
they're going to be receiving federal funding. Making sure that
you know that the rights of teachers, students, and parents
are are being honored and followed. Making sure that, uh,
(16:02):
you know that the money is going to the right
schools for the right reasons at the right times. You know,
all that stuff right there's there. It's a big job.
But what we've what we uncovered is day one when
the Trump administration you know kind of you know, took
over for lack of a better term, they were uh
(16:24):
Lenna McMahon and a few of her colleagues who were
at this briefing and who ran this briefing, they said
that they walked into the Department of Education and nobody
was there. Nobody was there because everybody was working from home.
And we learned that unfortunately, they they weren't working, they
(16:47):
weren't doing what they were supposed to be doing, you know,
which for somebody like me who works remote, of course
that's upsetting because I know that if I didn't do
what I was supposed to do, I would I wouldn't
get paid, I would get fired. And it was disappointing
to see that the people in these seats, who you know,
oversee our whole country's uh, you know, public education system,
(17:10):
you know that they weren't doing their end of you know,
they weren't fulfilling their end of the bargain. So the
responsibility that was dropped is is so much bigger than
I could have even imagined. And that is why the
(17:32):
Department of Education needs to be dismantled, not because you know,
not because you know, we don't want public schools to
receive support. We don't care about minorities or disabilities, we
don't care about you know, funding and all of that
stuff that has nothing to do with it. It has everything
(17:53):
to do with the department and how it was designed.
It's not working, and those responsibilities are not going to
be going away. They're actually going to be redistributed to
existing departments who already have and you know, for again
a lack of a better term, an auditing system and
team in place to make sure that things that are
(18:15):
happening are supposed to be happening. And you know, it's
not a matter of removing funding. It's making sure that
you know the money is going to who it needs
to go to and that it's being spent appropriately.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
So the you know, Moms for Liberty we are parental
rights advocacy group. And the first thing that I have
written down here on my list is we learned about
the role of FURPA and the Department of Education. So
FURPA is the Family Education Rights and Privacy Act. And
(18:52):
what was what's been happening And you know, I have
a list of examples of which schools who you know,
was doing what. But what was happening is that schools
were enacting policies that imply that students need protection from
their parents. So when parents were right, so when parents
were requesting information about you know, you know, their students' grades,
(19:14):
ask you know, accessing student records, the schools were saying no.
So that is a violation of FURPA, and fora is
a policy that the you know, Department of Education protects.
But in addition to that, I want to remind everybody
that I am fully aware, just as everybody else, that
not every student has a great home life, and that
(19:37):
there are circumstances to which where perhaps the student does
need protection from you know, from their parents or their
guardian at home. But what we have, yeah, yeah, it's terrible.
But what we have to recognize and understand is we
cannot let the circumstances for some be the rule for all.
(19:57):
And there are provisions set in place. One of those
provisions being teachers and people who work in education, they
are mandatory reporters. When they see something, they are to
say something and report it. Now, whether or not the
reporting leads to anywhere, that is a completely different department
(20:19):
and a different institution that needs revamped. And you know,
dog for so.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
You were saying the foreign like what do you what
do you mean like the foreign? You said foreign the
beginning you said something about the foreign. I can't uh
oh the bots.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So that's that is with higher education.
So we were having you know, we're obviously we were
seeing that, uh that schools were violating the furba and
you know, we're having to address that. What the what
the what the Department of Education is doing is they
(20:58):
are basically what they called it was dear colleague letters
and I'll send you the copy of these dear colleague letters.
So that whoever's listening. If they want to see it
for themselves, they can read it. But basically reminding schools, hey,
to receive funding, you have to comply with these things.
That has never been done before. So that is one
of the reasons why the Department of Education those responsibilities
(21:20):
need to be moved to different different departments where they
are you know, obviously doing their job and auditing like
they're supposed to. Because for the past twenty years, nobody
from the Department of Education was making sure that the
schools were being compliant with anything. Right now, with higher education,
(21:44):
what was happening and this, I mean, it's a very
tinfoil but it's true. There were fake bots posing as
students that we have found those bots were created by
foreign kind.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
How is this discovered? Was there like a big investigation
like under the table or like, how was this?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
No, this was the Department of Education, the people under
Linda McMahon Donald Trump doing their job for the first
time in many years. That's all this is. And that's
how we know that this is the problem because people
who were working there were collecting a paycheck and they
and they were not doing their job. So this was
this is not like a huge conspiracy thing that's been
happening for a long time and a big investigation with
(22:30):
the CIA, FBI. No, this was a matter of somebody
showing up to work and actually doing their job and
it was sitting there right in front of them like
a little like a little present on their desk. Wow,
it's it was very very clear and very plain to see.
So what they did find is that these bots were
were created by foreign countries and they were they were
(22:51):
applying for federal student aid and then they were getting
that money. Now they were getting the refund money, mind you,
but those colleges, the higher institutions, we're getting the funding.
So they were receiving funding for students that they didn't have.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
So you're so, what you you from Mom for Liberty?
Are you trying to bring awareness? Are you trying to
like what like, where do you guys stand in this this?
Speaker 3 (23:19):
So are Yeah? So our ask was from from the
Department of Education. Our ask was to share this information
because the media is not or what they do put
out is is very like you know, very twisted and
nuanced instead of it just being as black and white
as it is. So when Moms for Liberty people you know,
when we're accused of you know, not want you know,
(23:41):
wanting to dismantle the Apartment of Education. This is why
when we are critical of, you know, of public schools
and colleges, this is why. And it's not because we,
you know, we think that they're all you know, evil,
bad people. No, it's because we you know, a part
of our stance is holding people accountable, holding leaders accountable,
(24:03):
and you know, making sure that our students aren't going
to be paying the price. And that's what I mean,
that's inevitable.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
So here we have universities who are knowingly and you
will not convince me otherwise knowingly collecting federal aid money
for students that they do not have.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
What wait, parents are doing that?
Speaker 3 (24:23):
No, no, no, no, the universities, That's what I'm saying.
So when yeah, when you collect student aid money, right,
you have, the money goes to the school and then
whatever you know, whatever is refunded for you know, it
could be for for for housing and things like that
can go uh you know, would go to the student. Well, okay,
(24:45):
so we have the university collecting the money and keeping
it and not saying anything because why wouldn't They're getting
the money and then we have foreign countries who are
able to take a loan from our federal government. Wow,
it's been going on for a long time. One of
the many reasons why the Department of Education needs to
be dismantled. Another reason the you know, again, I have
(25:07):
pages and pages of this and if we were to
you know, if we had all the time in the world,
this would go on for two hours. Right of all
of the things that's going on right now and the
reasons why this needs to be dismantled. The the other
biggest thing is is the grants. So we have about
the Department of Education has about twelve twelve thousand grantees
(25:29):
right from all sorts of organizations, companies that give money
to schools for you know, certain demographics, certain things. So
for example, there was a school in Chicago, and this
is all true. Like again, it's it's a quick google,
but you know, you might have to scroll down a
(25:49):
little bit because it's important. But there is a school
in Chicago that was receiving a grant that you know,
if you had a certain level or a certain amount
of Native American students, you would receive you know, this amount.
You know, millions of dollars. Well, what the school in
Chicago was doing is that they were counting their Middle
(26:09):
Eastern and students of Indian descent, like from India, as
Native Americans. So they were getting this funding from these grants.
So we have again a couple of different issues with that.
We have a school that's fibbing to receive grant money.
We have a school that continued to do so like
(26:31):
that happened for a while. We have a Department of
Education that is not reading the grants because if they
would have read the grant, they would have known to
you know, does Chicago have Is Chicago a predominantly Native
American community? I don't need to answer that for you.
And then also are we why did this go on
(26:56):
for so long? You know, one time, I'll give you
the race oops accident, but it continued and continued. So
we have the people of the Department of Education. They're
not reviewing these grants. They're not doing their job right.
And obviously once the Trump administration came in, we discovered
all of this, but with these grants, a lot of
(27:16):
you know, the biggest question that I get asked is
how did this stuff get into our schools. Well, we have.
You know, there's a couple of different reasons. One of
those things being the teachers' unions, the school board associations.
They are now lobbyists. They're no longer typical unions. They
are absolutely lobbyists for ideology, and they're no longer trying
to hide it. Randy Wideguard, Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah, out here, it's insane. The people that are running
are doing really illegal things with their campaign. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
She literally just wrote a book why Fascists are Afraid
of Teachers. And then again in the NEAs Summit this
past summer, they have pages and pages of pages where
they're going to enforce and push their ideology into school.
Not once did they recognize or have a plan to
to fix the you know, to fix the literacy crisis
that we're having, uh in our as a country. So
(28:07):
we have that. But also these grants, these grants included
some of them kind of like a quid pro quo
if you put this material into your curriculum, if you
incorporate these things into your curriculum, you will receive the funding.
That's what was happening. So that's another that's another way
(28:28):
why these schools were getting you know why they were
you know why certain things were being pushed in the school.
One of many reasons, but it's one of them. So
again that's how did that happen? Well, it happened because
the people who worked at the Apartment of Education, they
weren't reading these grants. So of course what do we do,
as you know the Trump administration, they go in, they
(28:51):
discover all of this. Okay, so where is the policy
to review the grants and cancel them so it doesn't
just keep happening. There wasn't one mm hm.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
So we held a little bit more like we have
a few more minutes left, and I wanted to just
ask you one more thing and then I want you
to let the listeners know where to follow you. But
if you could set the records straight for Moms for
Liberty in your own words, to make people who truly
misunderstand what you are doing, because you're very passionate. Hear
it in your voice, You're very You're very passionate about
(29:22):
what goes into the Department of Education and and what
your what your cause is for. If you could just
set the record straight in like a few words, and
then let everybody know where to follow you. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
I mean we stand for truth. That that's all there
is to it. You know, some we've been accused of being, uh,
you know, MAGA trumpers, you know, Christian nationalists, anti LGBTQ.
The fact of the matter is, you know, do we
have a lot of MAGA supporters. Sure? Do we have
some Democrats, Yes, we do. As far as the LGBTQ community,
(29:59):
are we again inappropriate material in school, yes, yes, agent inappropriate?
Are we against talking about right Are we against talking
about ideology which includes gender identity and inappropriate sexual content? Yes?
Do we? Are we against keeping that from parents? Yes?
That has nothing to do with us not liking the
(30:21):
gay community. As a matter of fact, we actually have
quite a few people from the LGBTQ community in our organization,
one being a chapter chair like I am, she's gay,
nobody cares. We also partner with the organization called Gays
Against Groomers. They're going to be at our summit this October.
It has nothing to do with the LGBTQ community, and
(30:43):
everything to do with parental consent, parental parental rights and
making sure that our children are going to school so
that they can learn how to think, not what to think,
and then as far as I'm trying, I'm trying to remember, okay,
answer just.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
To just how to get a hold of you?
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Follow you? Yes, so, so how to get a hold
of me? I am on Facebook on you know, Hillary Jackson.
We have a public uh Facebook page for my county
Moms for Liberty Cuyahoga County. Facebook is where I'm most active,
just because I don't quite understand how X and Instagram
work because I'm like the worst millennial ever, But I'm
(31:26):
getting there. I'm getting there, and I'm very active on
there all day long. So I should probably get a
different hobby because.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
I mean, if this is what you love, you gotta
do what you love, right.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
But you know, the biggest thing is is that Moms
for Liberty would not exist if these issues did not
exist and parents did not need her help. So for
all of you out there who thinks that, you know,
Moms for Liberty is terrible, awful and we should go away, Okay, Well,
look at what we're fighting, and maybe those things should
go away because a lot of us would much rather be,
you know, sitting on our rocking chair, you know, knitting
(32:00):
and knitting.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
You are a bit millennial, Yeah, I would.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Much rather be, you know, sipping margaritas than having to
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Then I'm a drunken stripper now according to the world. Yeah,
so I feel you.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
I want to be on a beach somewhere. I want
to have to go toe to toe with my neighbors
all day long because they read something online that said
that I was a Nazi, so it must be true.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
The dangerous for me, the vocabulary that they spew is
it's very dangerous. I mean, we were just seen in
a few weeks ago, so of what you know, people
being called these names. But thank you so much, Hillary.
I definitely want to get more in depth with another thing,
so maybe we can plan another episode because I really
wanted to hear more about what you found. But time
is you know, time is that?
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (32:56):
So thank you girls, of course, Ali, thank you, thanks
again Hilly Glory for coming on Pillow Talk with Ali.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Michelle.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Your devotion and your passion really shows through. Send this
to your friends, your lovers, your haters, and everyone in between.
And don't forget to follow me on my socials. TikTok
at Ali underscore Michelle, that's with two eyes a l I.
I underscore Michelle Instagram at Ali underscore Michelle twelve again
that is with two eyes. And don't forget to subscribe
(33:26):
to podcasts
Now this is the FCB Podcast Network. This is pillow
Talk with Ali Michelle on the FCB Podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome back to an episode of pillow Talk with Ali Michelle.
Today we're diving into one of the most talked about
movements in education and parenting, Moms for Liberty. Whether you
agree with them or not, they've become a powerful voice
in the school board elections, curriculum debates, and larger conversations
about role parents, what role parents play, and the decisions
(00:43):
they make on their children's education. Joining me as Hillary
the president here in Cuyahoga County the Cuyahoga County chapter
Moms for Liberty to share what the group really stands for,
how they see their mission, and to respond to some
tough questions and criticisms you've probably seen in the head lines.
And she has some pretty deep discoveries to go over.
(01:05):
This is an opportunity to go beyond the sound bites
here directly from the source and better understand why so
many parents feel drawn to the movement. Hillary, thank you
for being here.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Of course, thank you Alie for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yes, so we were going over here briefly about what
you were talking about, but I wanted to ask a
very very tough question for you before we get into
this stuff. Okay, yeah, of course, Okay, if you could
describe politics in a smell, using only mom vocabulary, how
(01:40):
would you describe politics? I know it's a tough one.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
You know. Actually it's not because I the reason why
I was laughing is because I literally just said this
last night. I don't know how you knew. I don't
know how you knew this, but I did. And it's
especially as a mom. You walk into a room and
you smell like the old underwear, right, but you don't
(02:09):
see it, but you smell it. You know it's there.
So you're driving yourself crazy because you cannot find it anywhere,
but you know, you know, you can't move on to
anything else until you find it. And then once you
really start taking the time to dig in and look
under the cushions, it was there all along. And that's
(02:32):
how I you know, that's definitely how politics works. Is
you know, if you're a person of discernment and intuition,
and frankly, if you have something in between your ears,
you know to question everything and you know that what
you see isn't what always you know it's not always
the reality right, and you you know, you you almost
(02:53):
second guess yourself, you know, am I am I conspiracy
theorist for thinking that something is off and then come
to find out, Yeah, you know, as as you as
you investigate more or as just sometimes as simple as
time goes on, you find out that you were right.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
So that is you found that dirty underwear.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I found dirt.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yes, cool, so dirty underwear. But I love the analogy
you connected there because you just got to flip over
a few cushions and you'll find, you know, you'll find
the answers that are there. Okay, so we can uh,
you know, with the media and everything, so some people
(03:33):
might get wind of this and twist the words, you know,
fake news, fake media. And they've even quoted Moms for
Liberty in the media, Moms for Liberty. Moms for Liberty
is often painted as decisive or dangerous. So for example,
like the local like a local. His name is Nate Brown,
(03:54):
honesty for Ohio education nonprofits. He said, quote, Moms for
Liberty is an organization that is degrading our democracy. They
played to division, anger, and ignorance. Uh. They also noted
that they use multiple social media platforms to teach teachers
and school officials. Uh to advocate the about the abolition
(04:15):
of the Department of Education, advanced conspiracy propaganda and spread
hate imaginary and rhetoric, imaginary and rhetoric against LGBTQ community,
all these things in a man in sixty minutes said
he accused of Mom's liberty dodging questions, And they behaved evasively,
like how do you how do you address fake news media?
(04:37):
And that'll go into actually what we were just kind
of talking about before the show.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, I mean that's a lot of words, right, and
and you know, fortunately we live in a country where
you can say all of those words without any context
or whether or not they're true. So as far as uh,
if we could kind of break down his his statement,
because again, like you were reading it and I was
(05:03):
like all over the place, like wait, what where did
he get that? So what was his first his first accusation?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
He said, Mom quote Moms for Liberty is an organization
that is degrading our democracy. They played to they played
to division, anger, and ignorance.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
So as far as degrading our democracy, I think that
what we're doing is we're actually trying to remind people
that we live in a democracy, and better yet, we
actually live in a constitutional republic where we have a
set of you know, a set of laws in our
constitution that we are to abide by. And a democracy
(05:45):
is is a little bit different than that. So say,
for instance, in a democracy, this is a very extreme
situation right where we as a people decide to vote
that you know, murder should be legal and the majority wins. Well,
there you go. Now it's a law. So obviously we
have a set of principles. Again, that was very extreme.
(06:06):
But I move and they follow me.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
It's okay. She has kids in the background, by the way.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Now that this is this is they're working on working
on my house.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Oh I can't even hear it.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Oh you can't. Oh, perfect, you don't hear the banging. Okay, awesome,
But uh, you know, we have a set of principles
in our constitution and that is what we're supposed to
you know, abide by in all aspects of government, local, state,
you know, foreign, domestic. Right. So dismantling that what certain
(06:46):
people's ideas of democracy is, well, well, sure, if it's
if it's not you know, if it's not constitutional, you
can call it dismantling all day long. That's fine with me.
With the Department of Education in and being you know,
a vehicle for for hate and discrimination, that couldn't be
(07:07):
further from the truth. Obviously, we're going to get into
the Department of Education and and why we believe it
should be dismantled, But it has absolutely nothing to do
with discriminating against a certain uh you know, religion, politics,
you know where you came from, that has you know,
even the type of schooling. You know, we're going to
(07:28):
be talking about public, private, and higher education institutions today.
So all all that really is is Moms for Liberty
stands for truth. We we stand for transparency. And the
biggest thing is that we believe that parents are the
(07:50):
first and foremost providers of education in their child's life,
and that is constitutional. One hundred years ago, in a
Supreme Court case Peers versus the Society of Sisters, the
Supreme Court ruled that children are not a mere creature
(08:12):
of the state. Children belong to their parents. And that
is in all aspects, uh, you know, medically educational. But
of course where the gray area comes is somebody else's
opinion of ethics. Right, So a lot of the issues
that Moms for Liberty face faces right now is, you know,
(08:34):
if a school thinks it's ethical, or if one teacher
thinks it's ethical to change that student's pronounce without informing
the parent, they should be able to do so. Or
if you know, or if the parents think that it's
ethical to you know, to transition their child medically, then
(08:57):
they should be able to do so. So, of course,
there is a line between what is right and what
is wrong. And the good news is that we have
that in our constitution. So that is what we that's
what we're about. We're enforcing the and of course my
earring fellow mom mode, yeah, mess expressure here. So we're
(09:21):
we're forcing those ideals and the ideals of our founding
fathers in the principles of our country and and following
the constitution. You know, to a tee with those ideals
and morals in mind, are you banning books? No? No,
I would I mean write all of the books, you know,
I am I like to say this, I don't ever
(09:43):
want to yuck anybody's young, right, But of course is
it appropriate, well, it should become in sense. Is it
appropriate for a you know, for a kindergartener have access
to a book that explains how to perform sex acts
and that sounds crazy. It's true. We have had books
(10:06):
in elementary school, public libraries that have that have those
things in there. Is that appropriate? No? Do I think
that that author should be you know, cancel?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
No?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Do I think those books should be let on fire?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
No?
Speaker 3 (10:24):
But put those books in a public library, put those
books in a bookstore.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
It doesn't need jurisdiction. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Well, and how crazy is that.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
There is?
Speaker 3 (10:35):
There's age restrictions in the publishing of these books. You know,
we can't follow the simple you know what the public
you know what the publishers say that why?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's the question that why do they
want our kids to read these I heard some crazy
stuff during our city hall meeting and.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I was like, what oops, not only, but not only
why do you want the kids to read them? The
next question is why don't you want the parents to know?
That's what is actually happening as well? Is that and
we'll get into that too, and what that's called because
that is a violation. Why what's the problem with parents
(11:20):
having that information? Why? Why is it an issue for
parents to offer consent. So I mean that's even you know,
the most extreme cases. Keep the books in the library. Fine,
you know, more for you know, for the older kids. Okay,
keep the books in the library. But if you're going
to have that type of material, it needs to be
(11:40):
parental consent needs to be given.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yes, the permissions, Yes, yes, yes, yes, my kids school
is so great. And before we go to break, I
wanted to say that they do set like if they're
teaching about you know, possible you know, essay abuse at
home or sexual abuse at home, like can we talk
about this topic? We will. This is like what it
looks like what we're going to be saying, and we
sign off on it, which I'm very proud and I'm
(12:03):
very happy that my school does this, especially like my
girls are victims of very crazy you should never have
happened to a child. So I do like that they
do send that out. But before we go and break,
I have a yes or no question. Do you think
teachers and parents should be working closer together in the school?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yes? Absolutely, And and I've yet to meet me personally
to meet a teacher that thinks that that's a bad idea.
So the reason why we're having a lot of this
discourse and disconnect is from the top down, and we'll
get into that too. When you have National Teachers Association,
(12:47):
you know, teachers unions and teachers associations put in their
agenda that, you know, despite what families think, or despite
what executive orders, or despite what President Trump thinks, we're
going to do these things anyway that alienates half of
your parents, you know. And it's it's a monster, these
(13:13):
unions and the way that they are controlling almost every
aspect of what's going on in our public schools today.
It's it's it's devastating and it's real. For instance, we
have this past summer, there was a summit for the
(13:33):
National Educators Association and in that in one of their
agenda items, it was they were calling Trump a fascist.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
So but you can think that, and you can say that, sure, okay, fine,
but what what does it have to do with education?
What does it have to do with the crisis and
education that we have right now, as far as you know,
literacy and reading comprehension, What does that have to do
with anything?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Right right, We'll get into that at the break. So yeah,
we'll be right back welcome back from the break. Joining
me is Hillary the President here in Kyahog County. The chapter,
I'm sorry, the chapter of Kyahoga County Moms for Liberty.
(14:26):
She's here talking of what they stand for, and she
has some pretty breaking news for us today. And the
flora is yours.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Awesome, Thank you, Ali. So I was a few weeks
ago I was invited to a briefing with the Department
of Education, and you know, I'm still pinching myself over that.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
But congratulations, by life, thank you.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
It was. It was awesome, very small and very intimate,
so we were able to ask a lot of questions
and we were able to really cover a lot of information.
So the the main thing, the main purpose of this
briefing was to of course, uh discuss, you know what
the Department of Ed, you know what the Department of Education,
(15:14):
what they were supposed to be doing, what they are doing,
their plans for dismantling, and and what's you know, what's
to happen going forward. So the Department of Education, they
are supposed to be the the department that over you know,
oversees you know, you know, a public some you know,
some private institutions. And then of course, you know, higher
(15:36):
uh higher education institutions, and a lot of that is
to one make sure that they are in compliance, you know,
in compliance with our with our federal laws, especially if
they're going to be receiving federal funding. Making sure that
you know that the rights of teachers, students, and parents
are are being honored and followed. Making sure that, uh,
(16:02):
you know that the money is going to the right
schools for the right reasons at the right times. You know,
all that stuff right there's there. It's a big job.
But what we've what we uncovered is day one when
the Trump administration you know kind of you know, took
over for lack of a better term, they were uh
(16:24):
Lenna McMahon and a few of her colleagues who were
at this briefing and who ran this briefing, they said
that they walked into the Department of Education and nobody
was there. Nobody was there because everybody was working from home.
And we learned that unfortunately, they they weren't working, they
(16:47):
weren't doing what they were supposed to be doing, you know,
which for somebody like me who works remote, of course
that's upsetting because I know that if I didn't do
what I was supposed to do, I would I wouldn't
get paid, I would get fired. And it was disappointing
to see that the people in these seats, who you know,
oversee our whole country's uh, you know, public education system,
(17:10):
you know that they weren't doing their end of you know,
they weren't fulfilling their end of the bargain. So the
responsibility that was dropped is is so much bigger than
I could have even imagined. And that is why the
(17:32):
Department of Education needs to be dismantled, not because you know,
not because you know, we don't want public schools to
receive support. We don't care about minorities or disabilities, we
don't care about you know, funding and all of that
stuff that has nothing to do with it. It has everything
(17:53):
to do with the department and how it was designed.
It's not working, and those responsibilities are not going to
be going away. They're actually going to be redistributed to
existing departments who already have and you know, for again
a lack of a better term, an auditing system and
team in place to make sure that things that are
(18:15):
happening are supposed to be happening. And you know, it's
not a matter of removing funding. It's making sure that
you know the money is going to who it needs
to go to and that it's being spent appropriately.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
So the you know, Moms for Liberty we are parental
rights advocacy group. And the first thing that I have
written down here on my list is we learned about
the role of FURPA and the Department of Education. So
FURPA is the Family Education Rights and Privacy Act. And
(18:52):
what was what's been happening And you know, I have
a list of examples of which schools who you know,
was doing what. But what was happening is that schools
were enacting policies that imply that students need protection from
their parents. So when parents were right, so when parents
were requesting information about you know, you know, their students' grades,
(19:14):
ask you know, accessing student records, the schools were saying no.
So that is a violation of FURPA, and fora is
a policy that the you know, Department of Education protects.
But in addition to that, I want to remind everybody
that I am fully aware, just as everybody else, that
not every student has a great home life, and that
(19:37):
there are circumstances to which where perhaps the student does
need protection from you know, from their parents or their
guardian at home. But what we have, yeah, yeah, it's terrible.
But what we have to recognize and understand is we
cannot let the circumstances for some be the rule for all.
(19:57):
And there are provisions set in place. One of those
provisions being teachers and people who work in education, they
are mandatory reporters. When they see something, they are to
say something and report it. Now, whether or not the
reporting leads to anywhere, that is a completely different department
(20:19):
and a different institution that needs revamped. And you know,
dog for so.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
You were saying the foreign like what do you what
do you mean like the foreign? You said foreign the
beginning you said something about the foreign. I can't uh
oh the bots.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So that's that is with higher education.
So we were having you know, we're obviously we were
seeing that, uh that schools were violating the furba and
you know, we're having to address that. What the what
the what the Department of Education is doing is they
(20:58):
are basically what they called it was dear colleague letters
and I'll send you the copy of these dear colleague letters.
So that whoever's listening. If they want to see it
for themselves, they can read it. But basically reminding schools, hey,
to receive funding, you have to comply with these things.
That has never been done before. So that is one
of the reasons why the Department of Education those responsibilities
(21:20):
need to be moved to different different departments where they
are you know, obviously doing their job and auditing like
they're supposed to. Because for the past twenty years, nobody
from the Department of Education was making sure that the
schools were being compliant with anything. Right now, with higher education,
(21:44):
what was happening and this, I mean, it's a very
tinfoil but it's true. There were fake bots posing as
students that we have found those bots were created by
foreign kind.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
How is this discovered? Was there like a big investigation
like under the table or like, how was this?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
No, this was the Department of Education, the people under
Linda McMahon Donald Trump doing their job for the first
time in many years. That's all this is. And that's
how we know that this is the problem because people
who were working there were collecting a paycheck and they
and they were not doing their job. So this was
this is not like a huge conspiracy thing that's been
happening for a long time and a big investigation with
(22:30):
the CIA, FBI. No, this was a matter of somebody
showing up to work and actually doing their job and
it was sitting there right in front of them like
a little like a little present on their desk. Wow,
it's it was very very clear and very plain to see.
So what they did find is that these bots were
were created by foreign countries and they were they were
(22:51):
applying for federal student aid and then they were getting
that money. Now they were getting the refund money, mind you,
but those colleges, the higher institutions, we're getting the funding.
So they were receiving funding for students that they didn't have.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
So you're so, what you you from Mom for Liberty?
Are you trying to bring awareness? Are you trying to
like what like, where do you guys stand in this this?
Speaker 3 (23:19):
So are Yeah? So our ask was from from the
Department of Education. Our ask was to share this information
because the media is not or what they do put
out is is very like you know, very twisted and
nuanced instead of it just being as black and white
as it is. So when Moms for Liberty people you know,
when we're accused of you know, not want you know,
(23:41):
wanting to dismantle the Apartment of Education. This is why
when we are critical of, you know, of public schools
and colleges, this is why. And it's not because we,
you know, we think that they're all you know, evil,
bad people. No, it's because we you know, a part
of our stance is holding people accountable, holding leaders accountable,
(24:03):
and you know, making sure that our students aren't going
to be paying the price. And that's what I mean,
that's inevitable.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
So here we have universities who are knowingly and you
will not convince me otherwise knowingly collecting federal aid money
for students that they do not have.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
What wait, parents are doing that?
Speaker 3 (24:23):
No, no, no, no, the universities, That's what I'm saying.
So when yeah, when you collect student aid money, right,
you have, the money goes to the school and then
whatever you know, whatever is refunded for you know, it
could be for for for housing and things like that
can go uh you know, would go to the student. Well, okay,
(24:45):
so we have the university collecting the money and keeping
it and not saying anything because why wouldn't They're getting
the money and then we have foreign countries who are
able to take a loan from our federal government. Wow,
it's been going on for a long time. One of
the many reasons why the Department of Education needs to
be dismantled. Another reason the you know, again, I have
(25:07):
pages and pages of this and if we were to
you know, if we had all the time in the world,
this would go on for two hours. Right of all
of the things that's going on right now and the
reasons why this needs to be dismantled. The the other
biggest thing is is the grants. So we have about
the Department of Education has about twelve twelve thousand grantees
(25:29):
right from all sorts of organizations, companies that give money
to schools for you know, certain demographics, certain things. So
for example, there was a school in Chicago, and this
is all true. Like again, it's it's a quick google,
but you know, you might have to scroll down a
(25:49):
little bit because it's important. But there is a school
in Chicago that was receiving a grant that you know,
if you had a certain level or a certain amount
of Native American students, you would receive you know, this amount.
You know, millions of dollars. Well, what the school in
Chicago was doing is that they were counting their Middle
(26:09):
Eastern and students of Indian descent, like from India, as
Native Americans. So they were getting this funding from these grants.
So we have again a couple of different issues with that.
We have a school that's fibbing to receive grant money.
We have a school that continued to do so like
(26:31):
that happened for a while. We have a Department of
Education that is not reading the grants because if they
would have read the grant, they would have known to
you know, does Chicago have Is Chicago a predominantly Native
American community? I don't need to answer that for you.
And then also are we why did this go on
(26:56):
for so long? You know, one time, I'll give you
the race oops accident, but it continued and continued. So
we have the people of the Department of Education. They're
not reviewing these grants. They're not doing their job right.
And obviously once the Trump administration came in, we discovered
all of this, but with these grants, a lot of
(27:16):
you know, the biggest question that I get asked is
how did this stuff get into our schools. Well, we have.
You know, there's a couple of different reasons. One of
those things being the teachers' unions, the school board associations.
They are now lobbyists. They're no longer typical unions. They
are absolutely lobbyists for ideology, and they're no longer trying
to hide it. Randy Wideguard, Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah, out here, it's insane. The people that are running
are doing really illegal things with their campaign. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
She literally just wrote a book why Fascists are Afraid
of Teachers. And then again in the NEAs Summit this
past summer, they have pages and pages of pages where
they're going to enforce and push their ideology into school.
Not once did they recognize or have a plan to
to fix the you know, to fix the literacy crisis
that we're having, uh in our as a country. So
(28:07):
we have that. But also these grants, these grants included
some of them kind of like a quid pro quo
if you put this material into your curriculum, if you
incorporate these things into your curriculum, you will receive the funding.
That's what was happening. So that's another that's another way
(28:28):
why these schools were getting you know why they were
you know why certain things were being pushed in the school.
One of many reasons, but it's one of them. So
again that's how did that happen? Well, it happened because
the people who worked at the Apartment of Education, they
weren't reading these grants. So of course what do we do,
as you know the Trump administration, they go in, they
(28:51):
discover all of this. Okay, so where is the policy
to review the grants and cancel them so it doesn't
just keep happening. There wasn't one mm hm.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
So we held a little bit more like we have
a few more minutes left, and I wanted to just
ask you one more thing and then I want you
to let the listeners know where to follow you. But
if you could set the records straight for Moms for
Liberty in your own words, to make people who truly
misunderstand what you are doing, because you're very passionate. Hear
it in your voice, You're very You're very passionate about
(29:22):
what goes into the Department of Education and and what
your what your cause is for. If you could just
set the record straight in like a few words, and
then let everybody know where to follow you. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
I mean we stand for truth. That that's all there
is to it. You know, some we've been accused of being, uh,
you know, MAGA trumpers, you know, Christian nationalists, anti LGBTQ.
The fact of the matter is, you know, do we
have a lot of MAGA supporters. Sure? Do we have
some Democrats, Yes, we do. As far as the LGBTQ community,
(29:59):
are we again inappropriate material in school, yes, yes, agent inappropriate?
Are we against talking about right Are we against talking
about ideology which includes gender identity and inappropriate sexual content? Yes?
Do we? Are we against keeping that from parents? Yes?
That has nothing to do with us not liking the
(30:21):
gay community. As a matter of fact, we actually have
quite a few people from the LGBTQ community in our organization,
one being a chapter chair like I am, she's gay,
nobody cares. We also partner with the organization called Gays
Against Groomers. They're going to be at our summit this October.
It has nothing to do with the LGBTQ community, and
(30:43):
everything to do with parental consent, parental parental rights and
making sure that our children are going to school so
that they can learn how to think, not what to think,
and then as far as I'm trying, I'm trying to remember, okay,
answer just.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
To just how to get a hold of you?
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Follow you? Yes, so, so how to get a hold
of me? I am on Facebook on you know, Hillary Jackson.
We have a public uh Facebook page for my county
Moms for Liberty Cuyahoga County. Facebook is where I'm most active,
just because I don't quite understand how X and Instagram
work because I'm like the worst millennial ever, But I'm
(31:26):
getting there. I'm getting there, and I'm very active on
there all day long. So I should probably get a
different hobby because.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
I mean, if this is what you love, you gotta
do what you love, right.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
But you know, the biggest thing is is that Moms
for Liberty would not exist if these issues did not
exist and parents did not need her help. So for
all of you out there who thinks that, you know,
Moms for Liberty is terrible, awful and we should go away, Okay, Well,
look at what we're fighting, and maybe those things should
go away because a lot of us would much rather be,
you know, sitting on our rocking chair, you know, knitting
(32:00):
and knitting.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
You are a bit millennial, Yeah, I would.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Much rather be, you know, sipping margaritas than having to
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Then I'm a drunken stripper now according to the world. Yeah,
so I feel you.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
I want to be on a beach somewhere. I want
to have to go toe to toe with my neighbors
all day long because they read something online that said
that I was a Nazi, so it must be true.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
The dangerous for me, the vocabulary that they spew is
it's very dangerous. I mean, we were just seen in
a few weeks ago, so of what you know, people
being called these names. But thank you so much, Hillary.
I definitely want to get more in depth with another thing,
so maybe we can plan another episode because I really
wanted to hear more about what you found. But time
is you know, time is that?
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (32:56):
So thank you girls, of course, Ali, thank you, thanks
again Hilly Glory for coming on Pillow Talk with Ali.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Michelle.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Your devotion and your passion really shows through. Send this
to your friends, your lovers, your haters, and everyone in between.
And don't forget to follow me on my socials. TikTok
at Ali underscore Michelle, that's with two eyes a l I.
I underscore Michelle Instagram at Ali underscore Michelle twelve again
that is with two eyes. And don't forget to subscribe
(33:26):
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