THE BIGFOOT MYSTERY: Man, Monster, or Myth? And What Happens When You Come Face-to-Face With Him?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
In nineteen fifty eight, journalist Andrew Gonzoli of the Humboldt
Times highlighted a fun, ef dubious letter from a reader
about laggers in northern California who had discovered mysteriously large footprints.
Maybe we have a relative of the abominable snowman of
the himalayas, Gonzoli jokingly wrote in his September twenty first

(00:25):
column alongside the letter. Later, Ginzoli said he'd simply thought
the mysterious footprints made a good Sunday Morning story, but
to his surprise, it really fascinated readers. In response, Gonzoli
and fellow Humboldt Times journalist Betty Allen published follow up
articles about the footprints, reporting the name laggers had given

(00:49):
to the so called creature who left the tracks, Bigfoot,
and so a legend was born. There are various wild
ban myths from all over the world, says Joshua blue Buzz,
author of Bigfoot, The Life and Times of a Legend.
In Western Canada, the styles first nation have the Sasquettes,

(01:12):
the supposed origin of the word sasquatch. However, the modern
US concept of Bigfoot can be traced quite directly to
the Humboldt Times stories in nineteen fifty eight. People later
go back and dig through old newspapers and stuff and
find scattered reports of a wild man here, a wild

(01:32):
man there, he says. But it doesn't coalesce into a
general discussion until the fifties. Even though laggers blamed acts
of vandalism on Bigfoot, Alan thought that most of them
didn't really believe in the creature. It seemed to her
that they were just passing along stories with a legendary flavor. Still,

(01:53):
the story spread to newspapers all over the country, and
the TV show Truth or Consequences offered a one thousand
dollars to anyone who could prove the existence of Bigfoot?
Who is making the huge sixteen inch tracks in the
vicinity of Bluff Creek? In Zoli wrote in one of
his columns that October, are the tracks a human hoax?

(02:15):
Or are they the actual marks of a huge but
harmless wild man traveling through the wilderness? Can this be
some legendary sized animal? Once Bigfoot's story went public, it
became a character in men's adventure magazines and cheap trade
paperback novels. In these stories, he for Bigfoot was definitely

(02:37):
a He was a primal, dangerous creature out of the
past who lurked in the modern wilderness. By the nineteen seventies,
pseudo documentaries were investigating his existence and films were portraying
him as a sexual predator. In the nineteen eighties, Bigfoot
showed his softer side. He became associated with environmentally and

(03:00):
a symbol of the wilderness that we need to preserve.
One big example of the nineteen eighty seven movie Harry
and the Henderson's. It portrayed Bigfoot as a friendly, misunderstood
creature and need a protection from John Lithgow and his family.
So why is the Bigfoot legend persisted for so many years?
It takes on its own momentum because it is a

(03:23):
media icon. Bus suggests, just as no one really needs
to explain that characters who turn into wolves during a
full moon are werewolves, no one needs to explain who
a hairy ape man walking out of the woods would be.
It's just something that's easy to refer to. Bus says,
that would be Bigfoot. I'm Darren Marler, and this is

(03:49):
weird Darkness. Welcome weirdos. This is weird Darkness. Here you'll
find stories of the paranormal, supernatural, legends, lore, crime, conspiracy, mysterious, macabre,

(04:13):
unsolved and unexplained coming up in this episode. We are
fascinated by him when we read about him in books,
or see him on TV or in movies. Bigfoot has
become bigger than life, with every paranormal and cryptozoology enthusiast
gobbling up every bit of news that comes out about

(04:33):
the furry mysterious creature. But what would you do if
you came face to face with one in real life
in his territory? Tonight we look at Bigfoot, Sasquatch, the Yetdie,
whatever you want to call him, he has found fame
worldwide in both paranormal circles and cable TV shows. We'll

(04:56):
ask what he is, what he is not, what evidence
has been collected, the interesting take on our fuzzy friend
that Russia has and more. Now, bult your doors, lock
your windows, turn off your lights, and come with me
into the weird darkness. Bigfoot, also known as Sasquatch, is

(05:36):
a giant ape like creature that is said to roam
the Pacific Northwest. There is scant physical evidence that such
creatures exist, but Bigfoot buffs are convinced that they do
and that science will soon prove it. While most sightings
of Bigfoot occur in the Northwest, the creatures have been

(05:56):
reported all over the country, heck, all over the world.
There are many native myths and legends of wild men
in the woods, but Bigfoot per se has been around
for just over sixty years. Interest in Bigfoot grew rapidly
during the second half of the twentieth century, spurred by
magazine articles of the time, most seminarly a December nineteen

(06:18):
fifty nine True article describing the discovery of large mysterious
footprints the year before in Bluff Creek, California. If you
don't believe in Bigfoot, singular or plural, you're not alone.
According to a two thousand and seven be Loy Religion survey,
only sixteen percent of Americans said that Bigfoot absolutely or

(06:41):
probably exists, with forty four percent responding probably not and
about forty percent saying that they absolutely do not exist.
In contrast, over twice as many people believe in ghosts
or astrology, by far the most common evidence for big
Foot his eyewitness reports. A Pennsylvania man who accused Bigfoot

(07:05):
of vandalizing his nineteen seventy three. Winnebago in October of
twenty twelve is just one of a long history of
people who have blamed the hairy humanoid for attacking personal
property and dwellings. John Reid, a bigfoot enthusiast, claims that
during a camping trip, he and his girlfriend saw a tall, dark,

(07:25):
hairy figure walk past their camper window at night. According
to one news story, Reid said the bigfoot threw rocks
at his mobile homes outside light to escape discovery. The explanation, however,
doesn't make sense. If the bigfoot didn't want to be noticed,
it presumably would not have walked right past the Winnebago's

(07:47):
window with two people inside, nor would it have thrown
rocks at the camper. The creature would simply have avoided
the campsite or kept walking in the darkness if it
didn't want to be detected, instead of standing and through
rocks at an exterior light. That's not a very good
way to go about trying not to be noticed. As
odd as this story seems, Read is not the first

(08:09):
to claim to find traces and evidence what they assume
must have been a bigfoot, though not clearly seeing or
photographing it at the time, the logic goes like this,
I don't know what else it might have been, so
it must have been a bigfoot. It is well known
that wild animals attack vehicles such as cars and RVs,

(08:32):
especially if they can smell food inside, and many animals,
including bears and raccoons, can be very clever and persistent
in trying to get into vehicles and other containers. Trash
cans and national parks, in fact, have specially designed latching
mechanisms to thwart feral intruders. Bigfoot have been claimed to

(08:52):
vandalize not only dwellings but also trees. In October twenty eleven,
bigfoot researcher and biologists John Bindernagel visited western Siberia to
examine evidence of the Yetti, the Russian version of Bigfoot,
and he claimed to have found evidence that the creature
broke trees and branches. Twisted trees like this have also

(09:14):
been observed in North America, and they could fit with
the theory that Bigfoot makes nests. Bender Nagel said in
an interview with the British tabloid The Sun. We'll get
back to the Bigfoot nests a bit later. In another
mysterious incident that some attribute to Bigfoot or another unknown creature,
in two thousand and eight, a South Carolina couple claimed

(09:35):
that something vandalized their vehicle, leaving mysterious bite marks and
ripping out part of the fender on their two thousand
and two Dodge Grand Caravan. The most famous case of
a bigfoot attack allegedly occurred at a place called Ape
Canyon near Mount Saint Helen's, Washington. In nineteen twenty four.
A group of five miners working at the site were

(09:57):
besieged by a group of ape men. One of the miners,
a man named Fred Beck, claimed that they sighted a
group of bigfoot high above them on the edge of
the canyon. The miners then spent a terrified night holed
up in their cabin, during which the bigfoot bombarded the
cabin with rocks, and they claimed even tried to break
the door in. The miners couldn't get a good look

(10:20):
at the bigfoot, partly because it was dark and partly
because they could only see outside through small cracks in
the doors and walls. The incident was cited for years
in bigfoot lore as a classic bigfoot attack, and the
details were exaggerated with each retelling. For example, a few
dozen fist sized rocks that rained down on the roof

(10:42):
and walls became giant boulders in some versions of the story.
Later research found that the famous Ape Canyon Bigfoot attack
was not a hoax, but nor was it real. It
was instead a combination of a prank and misperceptions. Aims
that the Bigfoot there were local Ymca youth from nearby

(11:04):
Spirit Lake who had a long tradition of throwing stones,
including Pomus rocks, which can be deceptively light for their size,
down into the canyon from above. The kids would not
have known the miners were in the canyon, nor even
that they were necessarily hitting a cabin in the darkness
far below. When the miners looked up, they would have

(11:24):
only seen silhouettes of figures far above them. It must
surely have been a terrifying experience for the miners, and
it is easy to see how the Bigfoot story could
have been spawned. Could something similar explain the recent incident
in Pennsylvania. Reid says he believes that the damage to
his Winnebago was not caused by a group of pranking kids,

(11:48):
though police think that's exactly what it was and are
treating the case as ordinary vandalism. If Reid wants to
file an insurance claim for the damages to his camper,
he might want to go with that story. It's not
the height that freaks you out, it's the mass. For

(12:12):
people that believe they have seen Bigfoot in person, the sighting, however, benign,
can become a source of absolute terror. That's coming up
when weird darkness returns? Hey where it does. We all

(12:40):
know somebody who struggles with depression. I've been talking about
that for almost a full month now. I even heard
from somebody via email today in Ireland. They're having issues
with depression and asked me to pray for them, and
of course, yes, I will pray for you. You know who
you are. This seems to affect just about everybody. If

(13:01):
you don't have depression, you know somebody who does, even
if you don't know that they are struggling from it.
Because it is something that most people don't talk about.
A lot of people don't even realize that that's what's
wrong with them. That's what happened with me when I
was first diagnosed a a little over a little over
twenty years ago, I just suddenly broke down in tears

(13:22):
one day for no reason whatsoever. We had no idea why.
I was telling Robin how I didn't want to lose her.
We hadn't had any arguments. We had a great marriage
going on, we still do. But for some reason, my
mind started playing tricks on me, and I thought I
was going to lose Robin for some reason. And she
knew right then and there that I needed help. And

(13:44):
that's when I finally started reaching out to a doctor
to see what we could do and find out what
options there were. And it took a little while finding
which medication worked best for me, whether or not it
was going to be counseling, or whether it was going
to be prescriptions, balance of prescriptions it was supposed to be,
so everybody's going to be a little bit different. But

(14:06):
I did finally get the help that I needed. And
this person that emailed me today says that she's getting
help where she has it as well. She mainly emailed
me just to say thank you and to say that
she was sorry that she couldn't give to our campaign.
But honestly, if you're listening and you're sharing the show,
with other people. That really matters just as much because

(14:28):
you're still getting the word out more than more than
the fundraiser. It's getting the word out about the page itself,
the Hope in the Darkness page, because that's where all
the resources are for people who do struggle with depression, anxiety,
thoughts of suicide, or harming others. That's why it's there.
This sort of serves a dual purpose. It is a fundraiser,

(14:49):
but it's also a way to let people know about
those resources so that they'll be able to find them
if they need them. And it's been a couple of
days since I've been able to do an update for
regarding some of the giving, and today was a really
really good day. Bridget came in a couple of days
ago and gave twenty five dollars. Bridget, thank you so much.

(15:11):
We had an anonymous giver give fifty dollars yesterday. Also yesterday,
Becky gave fifty dollars. Thank you, Becky. Becky left a
note saying thank you for helping to ease the stigma
of such a life altering issue. Depression doesn't discriminate. Yeah,
so right about that, Anti Coco, I love that Coco.
She gave ten dollars, saying small acts falls a big tree. Well,

(15:36):
said Auntie, that's it. Yeah, every little bit helps chip
away at the tree to finally not get down. Regina says,
hope you meet your goal of helping people, and she
gave twenty five dollars while leaving that message, Thank you, Regina.
An anonymous giver yesterday gave twenty five, saying I lost
my father to suicide. This campaign matters. I am so
sorry anonymous about you losing your father. I don't honestly,

(16:01):
I don't know anybody who has not lost somebody to suicide.
And of course that's that's that's because of depression. It's
it's such a it's an epidemic. Now I hit. Another
anonymous giver yesterday gift fifty dollars. Michelle gave one hundred
dollars yesterday, Michelle, thank you so much. We had a

(16:22):
forty five dollars gift from an anonymous giver saying God bless.
Lisa gave twenty five saying thank you for using your
power for good. Can you imagine me using my power
for evil as powerful as I am? Okay, sorry? And
then just well here it is. It's the afternoon of

(16:42):
October twenty ninth, and I just got up from my
nap checked my email. We received a one thousand dollars
anonymous gift. Whoever you are, thank you, Thank you so much.
That still gets us only part of the way to
our goal of five thousand, and I don't think we've
ever been this far behind, this close to the end.

(17:06):
So right now we are at two thousand, seven hundred
and eighty dollars, so we're just over the halfway point
of getting to our five thousand dollars goal. But we
only have today, Tomorrow, and Friday left and then that
is it. I need to shut it down eventually. I
can't leave it open until I get to the goal
that who knows how long that would be. There'd be

(17:28):
no urgency for anybody to give if that was to happen.
So if you are planning on giving, please do so today.
I would really really appreciate that. I'm closing it out
at the end of Halloween evening. The more we raise, though,
the more people that we can help. So again, to
donate and also find those resources that I've been talking about,

(17:49):
go to Weird Darkness dot com, slash hope. That's weird
Darkness dot com slash Hope. And I'm sorry it took
so long to talk about this, but I was really
feeling the the need to expound on it today. Okay,
back to the show. Dawn Pierre is an Upper Peninsula

(18:17):
based investigator with the Bigfoot Field Researchers organization. He's looked
into several reports of bigfoot sightings, as well as participating
in bigfoot expeditions. One story has stuck with him. It
was the first time somebody broke down sobbing on the
phone with him. He said, I don't think I could

(18:37):
ever hunt again. I can't even bring myself to go
out and look. Pierre recalled of the conversation with the hunter,
and all he did was stumble upon one that was
laying on the ground basically sleeping. The creature jumped up
and ran away. You talk at eight hundred to one
thousand pounds for an adult male, just that size is
what really freaks people out, said Peer, who has never

(18:59):
had a direct sighting but hopes to. Kim Fleming, a
former bigfoot investigator who says she has had several sightings,
agrees that people get spooked by the size of what
they're seeing. It happened to her. She was investigating a
bigfoot report near Kalkoska when something crossed behind her. It
was absolutely huge. It took up two thirds of my

(19:22):
rear view mirror, said Fleming, formerly of Traverse City. Fleming,
a former college biology major and science teacher, is confident
when she says the sandy colored animal was not a
cougar or a deer. She'd researched cougar's out of her
own interest at a time when the Department of Natural
Resources was saying there weren't cougars in Michigan. There are,

(19:43):
there's just no evidence of a breeding population. All I
could think of was hit the gas, Fleming recalled, so
she did. Later she began having panic attacks. There's a
sense of fear that comes over you, Fleming said, comparing
it to the JD renal and rush you might experience
when narrowly avoiding a car crash. That situation in Kalkaska

(20:06):
made me realize I probably wasn't doing the wisest thing,
Fleming said, noting that she didn't have a weapon and
nobody really knew where she was, and it just scared me.
And so I was like Okay, I think I'm done.
You may or may not believe in Bigfoot. However, you
may be slightly more likely to believe in Bigfoot than

(20:27):
you were a few years ago. Chapman University regularly conducts
surveys of American fears. In twenty eighteen, the university's survey
of paranormal beliefs showed twenty point seven percent agreed or
strongly agreed that Bigfoot is a real creature. Paranormal beliefs
in general have been climbing in recent years, the university

(20:49):
said in twenty eighteen, belief in Bigfoot specifically was up
seven point two percent between twenty sixteen and twenty eighteen.
The Cadillac News asked peerre why he thinks so many
people don't believe in Bigfoot. People fear ridicule, Peer said,
but not Peer himself. I don't care what people think

(21:10):
of me. Pier continued, I don't care at all. I'm
fortunate in that sense because it really holds people back
in life when they do. Pierre said he's often the
first person to hear about a Bigfoot sighting, sometimes years
after the fact. They're afraid to tell anybody else because
of ridicule and they actually break down. They start sobbing.

(21:30):
Pierre said, there's so much raw emotion when people have
an encounter, you can't fake that. On one of Pierre's
first expeditions, his son had an encounter. He said. The
boy fifteen at the time, had gone quiet out of sight.
When they found him again, he's just white as a ghost.
He's literally just shaking. Pierre recalled and he said, it

(21:54):
was watching you guys. That was twelve years ago. The
Cadillac News asked Peer if he thinks his son would
have told him if he'd just been pulling his leg
a decade ago. There was no faking that fear, Pierre said.
For the Bigfoot Field Research Organization BFRO, the chief mystery

(22:15):
they are trying to solve is one of flesh and blood.
The BFRO has a standard of flesh and blood only.
Fleming said, if you think there's a spiritual dynamic that
doesn't go in your report, they're looking for hard evidence
like tracks and video and DNA. Vern Richardson, a wildlife

(22:37):
biologist for the Michigan Department of Natural Resources, has seen
evidence of the type preferred by the BFRO. As a
wildlife biologist, it's part of his job to identify animals
based on the hard evidence available. Once somebody reported possible
bigfoot tracks to him, but it was another animal entirely

(22:58):
a human trespasser. The footprints at first look appeared too
big to be human, but melting snow can do that
to footprints. I think it was early in the spring,
and when you step on the snow and you compact that,
it may melt faster where you stepped. Richardson explained. The
sun warms the ground underneath and then melts the edges

(23:20):
of that track faster than the adjacent fluffy snow, which
makes the track expand. Richard said, I haven't seen any
evidence to suggest that bigfoot is a thing, at least
around here or anywhere else that I've seen anything from.
Richardson said. While there is still a lot of mystery
in the local woods, Richardson said he's not expecting to

(23:41):
encounter a previously unidentified large animal from a purely scientific
evidence based stand. Stuff gets hit on the road, stuff
turns up dead. Things don't live forever, Richardson said, unless
there's a carcass disposal system. If something's alive, it'll die
at some point and there'll be every events that it
was once. There After her scare in Kalkaska, it took

(24:04):
a little while for Fleming to stop investigating altogether. In
part that was because there was a long term investigation
near Lake City that she wanted to see through. There
have been several sightings in the Cadillac News coverage area
in this century. Fleming and Pierre have investigated several of
those sightings. The Lake City area siding involved the most

(24:27):
extensive BFRO investigation in Wexford, Misak, Lake, or Oceola Counties
ultimately deemed a Class A or high quality encounter. In
the spring of twenty thirteen, a Lake City area man
reported wood knocks, whistling, and tracks. Fleming and other BFRO
researchers visited several times, and the man continued reporting sidings

(24:50):
and other unusual ephemera. Wexford County at a Class A
report in two thousand near Kingsley. It wasn't reported though,
until two fourteen. Teens shining for deer reported a thing
running towards them and breathing heavily. Class B reports in
Wexford County include seeing a shadow and rocks thrown in

(25:11):
the Long Lake State Forest between Manton and Cadillac in
twenty ten. A coon hunter followed out of the woods
by something in the Buckley Mesic area in two thousand
and four, and a bowhunter witnessing a tree being shaken
and something roaring and screaming in two thousand or two
thousand and one near Hawkesyville, Oceola County had a Class

(25:32):
A close encounter near a school bus stop when a
large figure knocked a small dead tree over and chased
me and my sister. That incident was reported to the
BFRO in twenty twelve. In twenty twelve, a hunter reported
various incidents near Pex Lake involving heavy steps, a seven
foot figure, and a guttural noise. That report was considered

(25:56):
a Class B report. County has had one report a
Class A near Baldwin in two thousand and six that
was reported in twenty twelve. Brothers reported a tall, fuzzy
creature that ran faster than a man. BFRO claims Class
A reports involve clear sightings in circumstances where misinterpretation or

(26:19):
misidentification of other animals can be ruled out with greater confidence,
while Class B reports are incidents where a possible sasquatch
was observed at a great distance or in poor lighting conditions. Additionally,
the Tippy Dam area is known for having rock throwing
incidents where big rocks are chucked at people in watercraft.

(26:40):
Fleming said poor quality reports or reports where it's believed
to be a prank don't make it onto the public website.
Fleming said Heartwick Pines frequently attracts people who search for sasquatch.
Craig Casmer, an interpreter at the Heartwick Pines Visitor Center,
said that he has never seen any evidence of big

(27:00):
but he understands the impulse to search. I like to
know the names of things. I think it's important. I
think once you get to know the name of something,
you care for it, or have a potential to care
about it more, said Kasmar, who was seen in a
few shots of a twenty twelve episode of Finding Bigfoot.
Any mystery to me that comes up in my line

(27:21):
of work, I want to find the answer to it. Unfortunately,
eyewitness reports are by far the weakest type of evidence.
Anyone can be mistaken, and pilots, policemen, priests, and public
officials are no exception. Psychologists and police know that eyewitness
testimony is notoriously unreliable, and that people are simply not

(27:45):
very good at accurately describing something that they saw, especially
at a distance, in low light and when the subject
is partially hidden by trees and foliage, as most Bigfoot
reports are. The speaking of trees and foliage, let's get
back to that theory that nests are being woven by sasquatch,
something I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around.

(28:08):
As mentioned previously, in October twenty eleven, bigfoot researcher and
biologist John Bindernagel visited western Siberia to examine evidence of
the YETI, the Russian version of Bigfoot. He claimed to
have found evidence that the creature broke trees and branches,
which he said bit his theory that Bigfoot makes nests.

(28:29):
We didn't feel like the trees we saw in Siberia
had been done by a man or another animal, he
told The Sun newspaper. Twisted trees like this have also
been observed in North America, and they could fit with
the theory that Bigfoot makes nests. The nests we've looked
at are built around trees twisted together into an arch shape.
Bendernagel was part of a small group of scientists who

(28:50):
visited western Siberia to examine evidence of the Yetti. In
October of twenty eleven. That group made headlines around the
world for issuing a statement that they had indisputable proof
of the Yetti and were ninety five percent sure it
existed based on the evidence a few strands of hair
that they had found. Tree twisting, also called splintering, has

(29:14):
been claimed as Bigfoot evidence for decades throughout the Pacific
Northwest and elsewhere. In some cases, tool markings have been
found on trees said to have been twisted by Bigfoot.
This suggests that the creatures are even possibly more intelligent
than previously suspected, and may be able to somehow locate
and use pliers, monkey wrenches, and other common hardware tools, unless,

(29:39):
of course, the marks were made by a human hoaxers.
Although many of the mysteriously twisted tree limbs are conveniently
near ground level, some are found at the top of trees.
Bigfoot researchers claim these are stronger evidence of the Yetti's existence, because,
whereas any hoaxer could easily twist small, wasist level branches,

(30:02):
only a bigfoot like animal would be able to climb
up that high. However, that raises the not insignificant question
of how a huge, heavy animal would get to the
top of a tree without breaking it or at least
snapping a few branches on the way up. Bigfoot are
often said to be between eight and twelve feet tall

(30:22):
and weighs several hundred pounds. Surely, if such a tall,
heavy animal made its way up tree, most of the
trees that have been found twisted are spinally in nature.
There would be more obvious damage than a few woven
branches at the very top. And if Bigfoot and Yetti's
spend time perched the top of trees doing arboreal decorating,

(30:42):
why aren't they spotted there. There's even more reason to
be skeptical of bender Nagel's claim about bigfoot nests, according
to Sharon Hill of the Doubtful News blog. Another scientist
who participate it in the same Russian expedition concluded that
hoaxing foot. At a bigfoot conference that Hill attended, Jeff Meldrum,

(31:04):
a professor of anatomy and an anthropologist at Idaho State
University who endorses the existence of bigfoot, said he suspected
the twisted tree branches had been faked. Not only was
their obvious evidence of tool made cuts in the supposedly
YETI twisted branches, but the trees were conveniently located just
off a well traveled trail. Meldrum, who eventually concluded that

(31:28):
the whole Russian expedition was more of a publicity stunt
than a serious scientific endeavor, refused to sign the group's
statement endorsing indisputable proof of the YETI and returned to
the United States. Others, including Bendernagel, remained convinced that conclusive
YETI and Bigfoot evidence is just around the corner. Most

(31:50):
bigfoot researchers admit that the vast majority of sightings are
mistakes or hoaxes, up to ninety five percent by some estimates,
but still they insist that a bigfoot must be hiding
in that tiny portion of sightings and reports that can't
be easily explained. The most famous image of a bigfoot
is the short film taken in nineteen sixty seven by

(32:13):
Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin. Shot in Bluff Creek, California,
it shows a dark, man sized and man shaped figure
striding through a clearing, widely considered a hoax by skeptics.
For believers, it remains to this day the best evidence
for Bigfoot. However, this poses a bit of a blow
to the film's credibility. If it's real and these Bigfoot

(32:36):
creatures are really out there wandering in front of people
with cameras, it's a bit suspicious that better films and
videos haven't merged since Lyndon Johnson's administration. These days, almost
everyone has a five megapixel HD camera in their pocket
with their iPhones or other devices. At no time in
history have so many people had high quality cameras on

(32:58):
them virtually all the time. If Bigfoot exist, logically, the
photographic evidence for them should improve over the years. Yet
it hasn't. Photographs of people, cars, mountains, flowers, sunsets, deer,
and everything else have gotten sharper and clearer over the years.

(33:19):
Bigfoot is a notable exception. One possibility is that there
is some supernatural explanation, such as that Bigfoot somehow emits
special unknown light waves that inexplicably cause the beasts to
always appear out of focus in photographs, no matter how
good the camera is. The more logical explanation is that

(33:40):
the photographs of them we see are either hoaxes or misidentifications.
In his book big Footprints, veteran researcher Grover Krantz discussed
alleged bigfoot hair, speces, skin scrapings, and blood. The usual
fate of these items is that they either receive no
scientific study, or else the documentation of that study is

(34:02):
either lost or unobtainable. In most cases, where competent analyzes
have been made, the material turned out to be bogus,
or else no determination could be made. When a definite
inclusion has been reached through scientific analysis, the samples have
invariably turned out to have ordinary sources. Bigfoot hair turns

(34:23):
out usually to be elk, bear or cow hair, for example,
or bigfoot blood is revealed to be transmission fluid. Sometimes
alleged bigfoot samples are subjected to DNA analysis and are
deemed unknown or unidentified. However, unknown or unidentified does not

(34:43):
necessarily mean Bigfoot. It could mean some other animal that
we just couldn't identify. There are many reasons why a
DNA sample might come back unknown, including that it was
also contaminated or too degraded by environmental conditions, or it
could simply mean that the animal it came from was
not among the reference samples that the laboratory used for comparison.

(35:06):
We have no reference sample of bigfoot DNA to compare
it to, so by definition, there cannot be a conclusive match.
The university backed project in twenty twelve aimed to investigate
cryptic species such as the Yeti, whose existence is unproven
through genetic testing. Researchers from Oxford University and the Lessam

(35:28):
Museum of Zoology were asking anyone with a collection of
cryptozoological material to submit descriptions of it. The researchers then
asked for hair and other samples for genetic identification. When
interviewed at the time, geneticist Brian Sykes of the University
of Oxford said, I'm challenging and inviting the cryptozoologists to

(35:48):
come up with the evidence instead of complaining that science
is rejecting what they have to say. While Psykes didn't
expect to find solid evidence of a Yeti or bigfoot monster,
he said he will keeping an open mind and hope
to identify perhaps twenty of the suspect samples along the way.
He'd be happy if he found some unknown species. It

(36:09):
would be wonderful if one or more turned out to
be species we don't know, maybe primates, he said, maybe
even collateral hominids. He told Live Science. Such hominids would
include Neanderthals or denocephans, a mysterious hominin species that lived
in Siberia forty thousand years ago. That would be the
optimal outcome, Sykes said. The project is called the Oxford

(36:32):
Luzon Collateral Hominid Project. It's being led by Sikes and
Michael Sartori of the Zoology Museum. Sykes doesn't want to
start receiving loads of skin, hair and other samples haphazardly,
so he's asking people to send detailed descriptions of their
Yeti samples. Sadly, the results were not what cryptozoologists and

(36:54):
hairy hominid lovers worldwide we're hoping for. The Yeti hair
sample they did receive turned out to be polar bear fur.
And then there's the story of the Yeti finger. A
finger long claimed to be from a Yetti once revered
in a monastery in Nepal and taken in the nineteen
fifties by a bigfoot researcher, was identified after decades to

(37:16):
be just a regular old human finger, albeit one with
a very interesting history. The so called Yetti finger was
either bought or stolen from the Pangbochi Buddhist monastery in
the nineteen fifties, depending on which disputed story you believe.
It had been in London among the collection of the
Royal College of Surgeons for more than half a century.

(37:39):
The finger was taken from the monastery by Bigfoot researcher
Peter Byrne and was smuggled out of the country, so
the story goes, by beloved Hollywood actor Jimmy Stewart, who
hid it amid his wife's lingerie. The monstrous finger ended
up in the possession of doctor William Osmond Hill, who
had searched for the Yeti in the nineteen fifties on
behalf of Texas millionaire Tom Slick. Hill later bequeathed the

(38:03):
finger to the Royal College of Surgeons. The finger has
generated controversy among Bigfoot and Yeti believers for decades and
until twenty eleven, when researchers at the Edinburgh Zoo performed
DNA analysis on the mysterious digit. Before then, it was
impossible to know for certain what kind of animal it
belonged to. If it is indeed a Yeti finger and

(38:26):
not human, then the mysterious beast is even more manlike
than anyone could have possibly have imagined. According to the
research DNA analysis, though the Yetti finger is human, perhaps
from the corpse of a monk, but definitely human. Rob
Ogden of the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland explained to

(38:46):
BBC News we had to stitch it together. We had
several fragments that we put into one big sequence and
then we matched that against the database and we found
human DNA. The researchers said that the result wasn't too surprising,
but obviously slightly disappointing. In nineteen sixty Sir Edmund Hillary

(39:07):
the First manned a scale Mount Everest searched for evidence
of the beast and found a Yeti scalp that scientists
later determined had been fashioned from the skin of a surab,
a Himalayan animal similar to a goat. But if populations
of Russian yeties really do exist, they, like Bigfoot, have
somehow managed to avoid leaving any actual physical traces of

(39:29):
their presence bodies, bone, teeth, hair, or anything else. Ooakxers
have further contaminated the problem of sorting fact from fiction.
Dozens of people have admitted faking bigfootprints, photographs, and nearly
every other type of bigfoot evidence. One man, Rant Mullins,
revealed in nineteen eighty two that he and friends had

(39:52):
carved giant bigfoot tracks and used them to fake footprints
for decades. Which are real, which are fake? Often the
bigfoot experts themselves can't agree, and sometimes the hoaxers are
so committed they put their own lives in danger for
the joke. In August of twenty twelve, a Montana man

(40:13):
was struck and killed by cars while trying to hoax
a bigfoot sighting. Randy Lee Tenley of Kalispell was pronounced
dead at the scene on US Highway ninety three south
of Kalispell after being hit by two cars consecutively. Tenley
was wearing a military style gilly suit, which is a
type of camouflage that resembles vegetation or foliage. Police interviewed

(40:37):
Tenley's friends to determine why he would be wearing a
full length, dark gilly suit in the right hand lane
of the highway at night, and were apparently told of
Tenley's nocturnal Bigfoot inspired mischief trooper Jim Snyder, interviewed by
the Daily Interlake dot Com, said that Tenley was trying
to make people think he was Sasquatch so people would

(40:59):
call in a sausage watch sighting. You can't make it up.
I haven't seen or heard anything like this before. Obviously,
his suit made it difficult for people to see him.
The most famous film of a bigfoot, the one shot
in nineteen sixty seven in Bluff Creek, California, by Roger Patterson,
is widely considered by skeptics to be a hoax pulled

(41:19):
off by a man in a costume. Either way, anyone
pulling such a stunt these days is taking a real risk.
But Tinley's death does bring up another question. What if
it truly was a bigfoot and not a man in
a suit? If you hit bigfoot with your car, did
you just kill a member of an endangered species? If

(41:41):
you're on a hunting trip, as supposedly Patterson was when
the famous nineteen sixty seven footage was filmed, what if
he had taken a shot at the creature? Would it
be ethical to shoot and kill a bigfoot? Some say yes,
because that's the only way to prove they exist, and
once proof is found, funds could be made available to
protect them as an endangered species. Others say no, that

(42:06):
because bigfoot sightings are so rare, they must have a
very small population and killing one might drive the animals
to extinction. Ecological ethics side, aiming a gun at a
bigfoot could be a bad idea. You simply can't know
for sure if the mysterious burly figure you have lined
up in your sights is the real beast, or a

(42:28):
bear or a hoaxer in a costume adefen If it
is the real thing, how on earth would you know
how it would react to being shot at. You know,
it's not going to be happy about it, and if
it's intelligent, as suspected, it's going to know the burning,
painful injury it just received came from you, the one

(42:48):
with the bangstick. Plus the whole idea might be outright
illegal in the first place. In twenty twelve, a Texas
teen shot what he believed to be a chupacabra, and,
while charges were not brought against him, if the creature
turned out to be someone's dog or a mangy coyote,
he could have potentially faced a felony charge. The lack

(43:10):
of good evidence has dampened the enthusiasm of Bigfoot buffs.
They have all they need in sighting reports, fuzzy photos,
inconclusive hair samples, and footprints to keep the search going
until better evidence comes along. Old evidence will be rehashed
and re examined, and unless Bigfoot is proven to be alive,

(43:31):
the search will continue. When Weird Darkness returns, will take
a short look at the history of Bigfoot, as well
as a few more sightings that are considered classics of
bigfoot lore. In the world of Bigfoot, there are stories

(44:17):
and then there are stories, the former involving encounters of
the run of the mill variety. They are the brief, unexpected,
and often perplexing brushes between man and beast that occur
with little fanfare and end all too quickly, leaving a
trail of questions in their wake. The discovery of tracks,

(44:38):
the screams, the glimpses of fur and form, the sound
of footsteps around the tent at night. These are the
more common dime a dozen experiences. At my early exposure
to the phenomenon been limited to a few of these sorts.
Of accounts Bigfoot perhaps would not have left its indelible
impression on me. The bigger and brasher tales, the classics,

(45:02):
as they're called, are what fueled my journey to believerdom.
These yarns were so outlandish, so seemingly preposterous, that they
could only be relegated to that borderland where reality segues
into fantasy. No Bigfoot connoisseur worth his night vision equipment
doesn't know the story of Albert Ostman, a susquology caused

(45:24):
celeb second only to the nineteen sixty seven Patterson Gimlin film. Ostman,
a Swedish Canadian logger, claimed he was kidnapped in his
sleeping bag one night while prospecting in the wilderness at
the head of Toba Inlet, British Columbia, just south of
the Great Bear Rainforest, in nineteen twenty four. Osman alleged

(45:46):
that after being picked up in his bag and dragged
through the mountains for most of the night, he was
dropped in a clearing in a small valley where the
light of the rising sun revealed a nuclear family of bigfoots,
a father, mother, and daughter staring at him in the
faint light of dawn Is, otherwise curious and mostly benevolent

(46:07):
hosts chattering in an incomprehensible patois kept him prisoner there
for almost a week. Osman finally made a successful dash
for freedom after poisoning the old Man, as he called him,
by feeding him a can of chewing tobacco he happened
to have in his sleeping bag. In nineteen fifty seven,
Osman came forward and related the incident to journalist John Green,

(46:31):
just before the humanoid tracks discovered in Bluff Creek in
northern California propelled Bigfoot into popular awareness. I was kidnapped
by a Sasquatch. The title of Green's dead serious newspaper
story on Osman's encounter, appearing on the front page of
the Agassiz Harrison Advance, foreshadowed every chintzy supermarket tabloid headline

(46:52):
to ever appear on the subject. Soon after Osman's tale
came to light, another yarn, also reported to have occurred
in nightteen twenty four, resurfaced to take its rightful place
in sosqualogies Annals of the Unforgettable. We mentioned it earlier
in the episode, but it's definitely worth repeating on July thirteenth,
nineteen twenty four, The Oregonian, a Portland daily, reported that

(47:16):
a group of five miners prospecting on the southeastern slopes
of Mount Saint Helens and Washington State had been attacked
in their cabin by a group of mountain devils. The
story later came to be known as the Ape Canyon Incident,
named after the gorge where the attack took place and
where gorilla like creatures had been seen for as long

(47:36):
as anyone could remember. Early Sasquatch investigators found and interviewed
the last surviving member of that drama, Fred Beck, after
digging up the old Oregonian article in the mid nineteen sixties.
Beck told them the assault in the cabin came in
response to the prospectors firing on creatures that had been
shadowing them in the woods for several days. The account

(47:58):
of the cabin attack, which came in the dead of
night and continued in unrelenting waves until daylight, is worthy
of its own horror film. The mob of ape men
swarmed the outside of the cabin, banging on its doors
and walls, stomping on the roof, pelting it with rocks,
and reaching in with their shaggy arms through gaps in
the logs. The terrified miners barely kept the creatures at bay,

(48:21):
firing their rifles at the walls and ceiling all night
until the attack finally came to an end with the
rising sun. The Argonian reported that the miners were so
upset by the incidents of the night they left the
cabin without making breakfast. The forest ranger, who was assigned
to that district and who claimed to have met the
men as they were fleeing, later told investigators in the

(48:43):
nineteen sixties that he had never seen grown men more frightened.
Stories like these fed my fascination when I was a child.
What sets them apart from other sasquatch tales is the drama, danger,
and emotional ten built into them, and a narrative flamboyance
that fires the imagination, raising the emotional pitch. Research shows

(49:08):
leads to gullibility and conditioning. But something fundamental to these
tales is key to understanding every sasquatch enthusiast's fascination. These
stories depict bigfoots as quasi human, intelligent, self aware and calculating.
Even More, they insinuate a shadowy and almost forbidden parallel

(49:31):
world which the creatures inhabit. When I was a kid,
there was no skepticism, no weighing of evidence, no sense
of whether any of it jibed with reality. At no
time while reading these stories that I find it strange
that ostman, in the account of his kidnapping, never said
he felt fear or terror, or that despite also having

(49:53):
a gun in his sleeping bag, he didn't attempt to
shoot his way out, or that the creatures that attacked
Beck in his colleagues didn't simply break through the cabin
door or ambush the man later during their retreat, or indeed,
why most sasquatch encounters do not, as far as we know,
end in violence or death. Nor would my opinion have

(50:14):
changed had I known that. In nineteen sixty six, Beck,
infected by the growing vogue of Eastern religious cults sweeping
the Western world, it self, published a New Age manifesto
entitled I Fought the Eight Men of Mount Saint Helens,
in which he claimed psychic powers, argued for the existence
of UFOs, and alleged that his party made contact during

(50:35):
their eighte Kenyon trip with native spirit guides wearing buckskin.
The Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, a science minded organization of debunkers,
has run articles in its flagship publication, Skeptical Inquirer taking
potshots at claims of the existence of sasquatches. The idea
of the magazine espouses most frequently is that bigfoots are

(50:58):
often no more than misidentified bears. Mistaken identifications, writes to
Joe Nickel, the author of one such piece, could be
due to poor viewing conditions, such as the creature being
seen only briefly or from a distance, in shadow or
at nighttime, through foliage or the like, especially while the
observer is naturally excited. The idea that sasquatch is nothing

(51:21):
more than a misidentified bear isn't new, but this argument
gained significant traction after the publication in two thousand of
My Quest for the Yetti by Italian alpinist Reinhold Messner.
The celebrated mountain virtuoso and explorer, known for the first
solo ascent of Mount Everest without supplemental oxygen in nineteen eighty,

(51:43):
has spent his life exploring the Himalayan region. His conquest
of all fourteen Himalayan peaks that top eight thousand meters
the highest on Earth has made him a legend among alpinists.
After scaling every major summit in the area, the mountain
obsessed Italian he turned his sights to a formidable new challenge,
the Mystery of the Yeti. In his book, Mesder claims

(52:07):
that he encountered a yeti an eastern Tibet in nineteen
eighty six. The incident took place in the evening while
he was on a solo expedition tracing an old Sherpa
route through a series of valleys. As he was trekking
up a forested ravine trying to reach a clearing above
the tree line, Mesner was startled by a fleet footed,
upright silhouette which was stealthily darting back and forth between

(52:30):
the trees. At first, he thought he'd come across a
yak and its owners, but the nature of its movements
soon convinced him otherwise. It moved upright, He writes, it
was as if my own shadow had been projected onto
the thicket. For one heartbeat, it stood motionless, then turned
away and disappeared into the dusk. Mesner then found large

(52:51):
tracks going up the mountain side before the same or
a similar creature reappeared and now whistled angrily at him.
This times got a slightly better look at it. Covered
with hair, it stood upright on two short legs and
had powerful arms that hung down almost to its knees.
I guessed did to be over seven feet tall. Its
body looked much heavier than that of a man that size,

(53:14):
But it moved with such agility and power toward the
edge of the escarpment that I was both startled and relieved.
Mostly I was stunned. No human would have been able
to run like that in the middle of the night.
After making inquiries with villagers, Mesner discovered that he'd encountered
what locals referred to fearfully as a chemo, a creature

(53:36):
comparable to the Nepalese Yeti. Mesner was fascinated. He decided
to embark on a new mission to find and make
sense of the mysterious animal. After twelve long years of
research and excursions with local guides in both Pakistan and Tibet,
the alpineist concluded that the animal he'd encountered in nineteen

(53:56):
eighty six was not the Yeti, but none other than
the and delusive Tibetan blue bear, thought to be a
subspecies of brown bear. The bear's mix of unusual qualities
and behaviors matched those of the alleged man beast. The
Tibetan bear often walks upright when on all fours. It
places its back foot into the print of its forepaw,

(54:19):
as bears in North America occasionally do, causing the two
tracks to merge into one humanoid looking footprint. It's nocturnally active,
its vocalizations are high pitched. It's known to kill yaks
with one blow of its paw. Yak predation is another
purported Yeti pastime, and the Tibetan bear is red when young,

(54:42):
becoming black when it grows into adulthood. So two is
the Yeti timesner. His discovery made absolute sense. The Tibetan
blue bear was no regular bear. The animal was highly idiosyncratic,
and when people were influenced by ignorance, fear, and and superstition,
it morphed into a beast of the imagination whose reputation

(55:04):
spanned generations and continents. I hasten to add that this
is an extraordinary animal, fearsome and preternaturally intelligent. As far
as possible from the cuttly image, people in the West
sometimes have of bears. He writes, these animals are nearly
impossible to track, and for all their reality, they remain
deeply enigmatic. They avoid all contact with humans and are

(55:27):
partly bipedal nocturnal omnivores. American conservationist Daniel C. Taylor, who
lived and worked for much of his life in the Himalayas,
spent sixty years particulously researching the Yeti mystery, starting long
before Mesner and beginning as a wild man enthusiast himself.
After traveling in the region's most remote valley systems and

(55:49):
himself coming across a set of mysterious tracks, he concluded
similarly that snowprints purported to be Yeti impressions were made
by Asiatic black bears and other local bear species. He
demonstrated convincingly that the tracks, including an iconic set of
prints photographed by explorer Eric Shipton of the Nepal Tibet
border in nineteen fifty one, photos that set off the

(56:13):
worldwide Yeti craze, were double impressions of a bear's four
pause and hind pause. Taylor even managed to find a
never before published photo of the Shipton tracks that show
claw marks in the snow which are not seen in
the famous photo. Since it's assumed by most that the
Yeti and the Sasquatch are generally the same creature, these

(56:35):
bear theories have been taken up and applied wholesale to Bigfoot.
Reinhold Messner himself personally led the charge. Believe me, the
mountain climber declared in an interview with National Geographic Adventure
magazine on the eve of his books publication in two thousand,
Bigfoot is, in reality the grizzly Somebody will prove it,
like I approved. The Yetti story is very logical the

(56:57):
whole thing. Even if himalay and bear theories are correct,
which I suspect they could be. The Himalayas are not
the Pacific Northwest, the grizzly bear is not the Tibetan bear,
and amorphous impressions in the snow are not the same
as detailed humanoid tracts in dirt or mud. Time and again,

(57:20):
in discussions with eye witnesses in the Great Bear Rainforest,
we are told in no uncertain terms we live with bears.
They are our relatives. We know how they look and act.
Believe me what I saw was no bear. What are
the most frequently brandished and more convincing arguments for the
existence of sasquatch is its apparent presence in North American

(57:42):
Aboriginal folklore. More than a few indigenous communities, particularly in
the Pacific Northwest, alleged that bigfoot type creatures do exist
and can cite names and descriptions for them in their
own traditions. For proponents of the Sasquatch, this is all
almost tantamount to hard proof. If such a species exists,

(58:04):
it would have been known to local inhabitants before European colonization.
When early bigfoot researchers managed to get past walls of
secrecy and reticence, they were told by indigenous people that
the creatures were greatly feared and respected. Some cast them
as cannibal spirits. Others described them as thief like preying

(58:25):
on women and children. In most depictions, the animals were
said to have special powers, including the ability to hypnotize,
induce insanity, and cause physical harm. The power to shape
shift or transform into other creatures, many said, is what
accounted for their elusiveness. These sorts of cultural beliefs were

(58:46):
often of secondary importance. To conventional bigfoot investigators, who were
and still are more interested in confirming the ape like
qualities of the animal, as evidenced in some indigenous carvings, masks,
and dances. There are many permutations of indigenous wild man
beings along the North American West Coast. The Sasquatch, of course,

(59:10):
its name derived from a coast Salash word Sasquetz, meaning
wild man, is the most famous among the Halzk. The
creatures are known as thloth Law in folklore. The floth
Law is depicted as a large, hair covered forest dwelling
supernatural humanoid. Stories usually cast it as a female. Its

(59:31):
trademark quality is a penchant for abducting and eating children,
and carries a large basket on its back with an
inwardly spiked lid in which to stash abductees and transport
them back to its lair. Parents often used stories of
the fluth Law to prod or frighten their children into
obedience for a long time. Like many Sasquatch enthusiasts, I've

(59:53):
taken it for granted that any humanoid or boogeyman type
creature that is part of an indigenous group pantheon of
supernatural beings must be the same as what people today
call bigfoot, since some like fluff Law and Susquets seem
to fit the bill. A few of the beings nowadays
equated with the Sasquatch are the Gajeet or the Haida,

(01:00:16):
a human who has succumbed to fatigue, cold, or hunger
to become a ghostly wilderness dweller. The Kushtaka of the Linget,
who is likened to a land dwelling otter and is
believed to be the embodiment of a drowned or lost relative.
And the Wendigo of Algonquin speaking peoples, a trouble making

(01:00:38):
spirit of the woods that can possess people and cause
them to perpetrate acts of insatiable greed, murder, and even cannibalism.
There may be something to these linkages with sasquatch. After all,
much indigenous oral history and traditional knowledge has been shown
to be accurate long ededating the same scientific or academic

(01:00:59):
quote unquot discoveries. But is it possible that the Sasquatch,
simply one indigenous version of the wildman whose name was
anglicized by non indigenous people, has become so prominent and
universal a story in its own right that it has
come to be mixed up with and grafted on to
other unique Aboriginal traditions. Could The deluge of media coverage

(01:01:23):
and the long standing pop cultural aspects of the Sasquatch
story have influenced some indigenous people and also sosquologists, to
see more of Bigfoot in some supernatural beings than is
actually there. Several such creatures don't overlap much with Bigfoot
apart from being humanoid or semi humanoid. Muddying the waters

(01:01:46):
is the fact that common forest creatures are, in certain
native stories imbued with human qualities. Some can transform themselves
into humans. The idea of a creature that bridges the
in animal spheres is in a sense commonplace. Thanks for listening.

(01:02:15):
Take a moment today and share Weird Darkness with somebody
you know who loves paranormal or strange stories, true crime, monsters,
or mysteries like you do. All stories in Weird Darkness
are purported to be true unless stated otherwise, and you
can find source links or links to the authors in
the show notes. How the Bigfoot Legend Began was written

(01:02:36):
by Becky Little for history dot Com Bigfoot Was Watching
You is by Karen Hopper for Cadillac News. That Was
No Bear was written by John Zeta or Lapham's Quarterly.
And a huge thanks to Benjamin Radford from Live Science
for his extensive research and writing on Bigfoot over the years.
This episode would not have been possible without that, as

(01:02:57):
most all of this episode is thanks his work, So
a huge thanks to Benjamin Radford. And again you can
find links to all of the sources I used for
this episode in the show notes. And now that we're
coming out of the dark, I'll leave you with a
little light. Romans sixteen, Verses seventeen and eighteen. I urge

(01:03:17):
you brothers to watch out for those who cause divisions
and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to
the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them, for
such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their
own appetites. My smooth talk and flattery, they deceive the
minds of naive people. And a final thought, a person

(01:03:41):
who feels appreciated will always do more than it's expected.
I'm Daryn Marler. Thanks for joining me in the weird darkness.

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