April 17, 2024 • 36 mins
In the last few weeks TikTok and other social networks have been flooded with memes about a chinese glycine manufacturer called Donghua Jinlong, all thanks to one innocent promotional video. Ed Zitron is joined by journalist Louise Matsakis and writer/researcher Tianyu Fang to talk about why young people are talking about glycine. Read more of Louise's work at https://youmayalsolike.beehiiv.com/ and you can find Tianyu at https://twitter.com/tianyuf
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Alzo Media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello and welcome to bear Offline. I'm your host at Zetron.
I need a saga. What's the saga? It's glycine, industrial
food grade glycine and its associated memes. In the last
(00:30):
few weeks, TikTok and other social networks have being flooded
with memes like this.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Then she gave me some glycine and I was like,
this ain't no Donghua Geelong. If you call this industrial
strength glycine, then this glycining's gotta hit the gym. You
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
And this Are you tired of being cucked by inferior
industrial and food grade glycine suppliers who don't adhere to
FCC six hundred and forty, uspvp EP and JSFA production standards.
Fear not glycine girlies, edge yourself down to Donguar jin Long.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
All inspired by an innocent promotional video created by doguar Jinlong,
a manufacturer of food grade glycine used to improve the
taste of things like soy sauce and juices, introducing Donghuar
gene Long's food grade glison Unlock Donguar gene Longs food
grade Glison in twenty twenty four, based on my research
and talking to people smarter than me, donguar Jin Long
(01:24):
and the wider Chinese society doesn't really seem to understand
why this is happening, nor why it's funny, and it
appears to have taken root in a combination of harmless banter.
Treating an extremely specific industry and its byproduct is a
thing we discussed in our regular lives and semi ironic
support of Chinese industry just as the American government seeks
(01:44):
to ban TikTok.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
So I got.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Together with two people that have found themselves just a
little too deep in this story joining me today to
talk about this extremely strange phenomenon is the writer of
you may also like Louise Mattsakis and writes and researcher
toy On You Fang.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
Thank you so much for joining me, both of you.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 6 (02:08):
It's great to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
So, Louise, you've been tracking Chinese factories for several years,
which is a great thing, and I love saying it.
First of all, why, but also what have you seen
from these factories on social media?
Speaker 7 (02:22):
So I would say around twenty twenty or twenty twenty one,
I started noticing that Chinese factories were opening TikTok accounts
and posting there. I don't think it's unusual that they
picked TikTok. You know, they were posting on Facebook, they
had WhatsApp accounts. These are manufacturers that need to court
overseas customers, and it's perfectly normal for them to have
(02:46):
social media accounts. But I think what was happening is
that a lot of them were starting to work with
marketing agencies who were saying, hey, you know, it's not
a bad idea to post on this platform that's getting
really popular.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
You know, we have our version here domes.
Speaker 7 (03:01):
And they started posting these mesmerizing clips.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
Uh.
Speaker 7 (03:06):
One I think about a lot is uh it's gardening
gloves being made.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
So you see these.
Speaker 7 (03:11):
Like fabric gardening gloves that are being you know, dipped
in liquefied rubber, so they get that rubber coating on
the tips of the fingers so you can you know,
dig in the dirt or whatever in your garden. They
reminded me, I don't know if you guys have ever
seen that show. I think it was called like how
It's Made. Uh, you know, it's a show on cable
(03:31):
TV probably you know, a decade, a decade and a
half ago. I think it's just sort of fascinating to
get a window into, you know, the world of manufacturing
which Western consumers are are so divorced from. So that's
kind of like the history of this trend on TikTok.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
And how about doung wadjin lung itself, how did that manifest?
Speaker 7 (03:54):
So what's happened recently is that these factories have seemingly
started using what I think is probably some sort of
AI software where they're translating a script and then doing
some sort of like text to speech.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So these videos sound really funny.
Speaker 7 (04:12):
And don Quadjin Long is this company that makes high
quality grade glyscene, which is a type of nutritional additive,
And I think the name the videos they were posting,
which were sort of like these like graphic edited videos
of like drone footage of their factory, was just really
really funny to a lot of people. You know, it
(04:34):
was sort of like, you know, high quality grade glyccene
made sort of nothing to most people in the West,
So I think it was just it was just sort
of this funny moment, and I think It also ties
into this existing trend on TikTok where a lot of
younger users make fun of the concerns in Washington about
the app being Chinese owned. You know, I've seen people
(04:56):
like joke about praying Tashi Jimpang or you know, like
rubbing statues of Mao and there.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
It's just a joke. But I think that.
Speaker 7 (05:06):
It sort of ties into that as well, like this
idea of it being this Chinese platform and sort of
like you know, Western users, you're joking on that and
joking about sort of the hysteria over it in Washington.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
And Janie, you were talking to me earlier about how
it was like sixty percent of glycine that comes out
of China is don't wadging lung. Is that What is
the scale of this company?
Speaker 5 (05:29):
What is this thing?
Speaker 6 (05:31):
Yeah? Sure, so actually I think the real scale is
smaller in that globally, glycin production is about I think
eight hundred thousand tons per year and don'hagil makes about
one hundred and twenty thousand tons, so it's not that much.
But it specializes in sort of industrial grade, right, so
(05:51):
it's not the normal like food additives that we see
in daily life, but sort of the kind of glycine
now you use in herbicide and other forms of sort
of more industrial production and less consumer So yeah, the
skill is pretty big. China now produces about half of
global glycines in total, and you know, previously that was
(06:15):
an American and European production in the nineties, but starting
the early two thousands there was more Asia production. So
dohajo own is based in Covid Province, which is right
outside of Beijing. That's where a lot of today's industrial grade,
high quality glycine comes from.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
So does this mean do you think any of this
is connected to the Chinese government? I don't mean that
in a paranoid way. Is any of this deliberate? I
think is the question for both you.
Speaker 6 (06:43):
Yeah, I would say no in a sense that it
seems just like privately owned companies. I checked the corporate records.
I didn't go that deep, but you know, it is
a private company that came out of the Chinese eighties
and nineties and seems to have done pretty well. And
if you look at these videos on TikTok, there's usually
a version on we Chat or other Chinese platforms that's
(07:07):
kind of similar. In Chinese as opposed to English. So
I imagine these videos were originally made for people to share
on Chinese social media platforms with business partners, so that
they can advertise their business to to like business people
in China who are a lot more interested in using
short video apps than I think they are American counterparts.
(07:29):
So I think there's a direct translation of that intention
into the American market, which I don't know if it's
working as intended.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Is it very common for Chinese businesses to actually use
this method though, even these industrial ones, Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 6 (07:45):
I think it's there is a TikTok you equivalent that's
built inside we Chat as well. And I think because
we Chat is a multi purpose app where you use
it both if you're a person who's just very online
or a person who actually runs your business. So the
by being on that short video platform that Pinson has
(08:06):
we Chat, you can very easily share these videos with
other people for business or entertainment purposes.
Speaker 7 (08:13):
I like, I think what's happening here is you're seeing
sort of TikTok's algorithm collide with this content that otherwise,
you know, American members would never see.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
When I looked into it.
Speaker 7 (08:30):
I saw that don Jua Geelong also had a Facebook
account where they actually had more followers at the time.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Than they did on TikTok.
Speaker 7 (08:39):
But the thing is, with a platform like Facebook or Instagram,
these people don't know what glycceine is, let alone, are
they like searching for a manufacturer in China that specifically
produces it, right, But with TikTok, the way that the
platform works is that you sort of get fed this
content and you decide whether you like it or not
(09:00):
by you know, paying attention, commenting, liking, sharing, and over time,
the algorithm will feed you more of it. Right, we
all know this, and you know, the reality is that
you don't know that you might think glycine is funny.
You don't know that it might be interesting to see
how gardening gloves are made or whatever. So I think
this is just an instance where the design of the
platform meant that this sort of strange thing started bubbling up.
(09:24):
Of course you see this on Twitter, on YouTube, on
other platforms, but I think in this case it sort of,
you know, happened to happen on TikTok, And I think
it would be a mistake to say it's just because
the platform is Chinese owned, that these Chinese factories are
doing well there, although I will say I think maybe
some of these marketing agencies and these bigger factories that
(09:46):
are doing this themselves maybe have more familiarity with TikTok
because of Doyene, which is the local version also owned.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
By by Dance.
Speaker 7 (09:55):
But I also think what's happening here is that you're
seeing Americans, you know, people in Europe connect to this stuff,
particularly because it portrays sort of like a more camp,
sort of like sillier side of China. You know, a
lot of these factories are really old school. They're maybe
(10:15):
owned by guys who I don't know about this case
in particular, but when I've talked to these factories, they're
often owned by like, you know, old school guys who
are sort of products of the cultural revolution, who you know,
chain smoke cigarettes and you know, drink tea all day long.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
But that's not really reflective of.
Speaker 7 (10:33):
Social media in China. You know, it's very sophisticated. There's
just exactly the same kinds of you know, hawk girl influencers,
you know, people with hot takes on those local platforms.
But I think it's not a coincidence that what's resonating
is more of sort of that like old school manufacturing
(10:55):
maybe like more foreign vibe and like you know, a
typical you know, Chinese fashion influencer who also has no
reason to post on a foreign platform, right, whereas like
these factories are actually looking for customers overseas, and I
wouldn't be too surprised if maybe there is somebody out
there who was looking for a glycine manufacturer.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
And you know, now they've found one.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, Tian, you have you found anything of other companies
trying to do this more deliberately?
Speaker 5 (11:33):
Have you seen anything that suggests that I'm.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
Not sure about on TikTok per se because I don't
follow that much glycy and content on TikTok, but I
makes one of the platform. Oh you know, I just
got started. But I think on Chinese platforms it's a
lot more common to see the sort of stuff as
in I do think that when I encountered this video
in Chinese, I was like, oh, this makes so much
(11:58):
more sense because people just post. There's I think there's
a culture of posting a short like two three minute
ad of their company or their factory to to show
sort of the working conditions of of of of of workers,
or or the kind of product products that they produce.
Just a very popular thing on Chinese social media, even
(12:21):
though it sort of caters to a particular audience, that is,
their potential customers. But at the same time, I think
there is an increased interest interest, as Louise said about
Chinese factory like videos on Western platforms. The one guy
I've been recently following is a Tony from Elsie's Sign
and he is a guy who works at a uh
(12:43):
I think uh electronic sign company like lights and billboards,
and he does weird English accents.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
Yeah his I now know who you mean.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
He has a peculiar accent And I said, this is
someone with a peculiar accent.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
Yeah, he does also different sources of accents, and people
just loved him, and I imagine it was the same intention,
but he was doing more successfully, you know, than like
glycine producers, mostly because I think more people are interested
in buying billboards and posters and like Sein.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Why do you think that it's so common in China
to post like for these videos to exist, Because I
can't think of an American equivalent of this.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
I guess you get people who like post like tract to.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Videos and such, and that is that niche thing. But
almost this industrial pride doesn't seem to exist over here.
Speaker 6 (13:34):
Yeah, I do think that's right. I think the difference
is the completeness of supply chain in China, where your
target customer is somebody who's above you in your supply
chain or below you in your supply chain. Uh, And
you have so many companies, so many factories, and so
many workshops that you know, are in the business of
(13:55):
supplying to you know, herbicide like you know, a manufacturing
So in that sense, you do have a much bigger
intended audience if you're a manufacturer on one specific part
of this process. So you know, obviously China has a
much larger industrial base, much larger manufacturing capacity, and a
(14:18):
lot more small businesses that are like dohaj loan trying
to buy products from other dohag loans. So in that
sense it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 7 (14:27):
I think another thing too, is that there's just sort
of a culture of documenting all aspects of sort of
what's going on in the factory via video.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
You know.
Speaker 7 (14:37):
A good example is, uh, it's very common in China
for recruiters or for you know, people who work at
these factories to sort of take videos of like what
does the dorm look like? You know, what is the cafeteria, like,
what is daily life like if you work at these factories,
and those videos are often designed to you know, recruit
more people to work there.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
But we've seen in the US that if you.
Speaker 7 (15:00):
You record your life at Amazon or your life in
a factory, you're probably going to get fired. And that's
not to say that, you know, if you filmed stuff
that was you know, painted painted your employer in a
bad light, that you wouldn't be you know, punished for that.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
In China, of course you would be.
Speaker 7 (15:17):
But I think there's a sort of more of a
culture of documenting all of this. And I think it's
also a result of people being much closer to manufacturing
and having a much more deep understanding of how these
supply chains work. You know, everybody in China knows somebody
who's involved in manufacturing in some capacity, unless, like I
don't know, you're the most elite person in Beijing who
(15:39):
you know only knows other intellectuals or something. You know,
there's somebody in your family, a relative, a friend who
was involved in this world, and so it's much more normalized,
I think, whereas for Americans it's like we had a
whole TV show fifteen years ago or something about how
stuff was made because you know, it was interesting to
people because we didn't know because that was already an
(16:00):
industry that was being offshore.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
And this is not necessarily saying this kind of culture
is good. But at the same time, it does feel
like there's almost more connection to more blue collar labor there,
and there's not so much in an obsession with Maybe
I'm wrong, please correct me, I'm wrong, but far less
of an attempt to escape those trappings. I feel like
America has a degree of shame for factory work while
(16:25):
also kind of lionizing the working class. And it's it's weird.
It's weird watching this happen, and it's weird watching Americans
kind of celebrate the glysiine lords, even ironically, it's been
peculiar to watch.
Speaker 7 (16:41):
I think, actually what you're seeing in China now is
exactly what you just described having happened in the US,
which is that there's way more college graduates now who
don't want to have sort of the same factory jobs
as their parents. I think that this work is really difficult.
It often doesn't pay super well. And now it's a
(17:02):
terrible book.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, but you're seeing.
Speaker 7 (17:07):
For sure, but you're seeing I think, like this manufacturing
labor pool in China starting to age, right, Like, younger
workers don't want to do this anymore. And you know,
China has said like, oh yeah, we're having you know,
problems sort of recruiting people to go to these factory jobs.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
And I think that's also because.
Speaker 7 (17:26):
You often have to live there, which is a really
big difference, right, Like you know, no one lives on
site at Amazon.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I hope, like please if you know about that, like
get in touch.
Speaker 7 (17:33):
But it's a different you know, it's an all encompassing
lifestyle where you're you're living on the campus, you're working
you know, six days a week, potentially long hours, and understandably,
you know, college graduates don't really want to do that.
So I think you're right that historically sort of, you know,
manufacturing was a huge way that China you know, lifted
a lot of people out of poverty and sort of
(17:54):
you know, increase its GDP very rapidly. But at the
same time you're seeing exactly what you described in the
US of this is not something that a lot of
young people are excited about doing, but it's still happening on.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
A much bigger scale there than it is here anymore.
Speaker 6 (18:09):
I do think the long hours that people spend in
these factories is very important in a sense that it
sort of resembles this socialist legacy where even though you
know most of these companies are privately owned these days,
you know, in these state owned enterprises and state owned factories,
in the seventies and eighties, you did live with your
co workers, you had your own houses, you would do
(18:30):
cafeterias with your co workers. So there was an assumption
of some sort of social cohesion with your workplace outside
of work itself. And this is why we're seeing a
lot of people posting about their you know, lives in factories,
also in part because they have probably very little life
(18:51):
outside of the work workplace, which could be a terrible
thing in many cases because of the long working hours
these days. So I do think that culture is still
embedded in some some types of factory work in China.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, And it's the other thing is as well, is
that it feels like some of this is being used
to kind of cover up the grosser side, things like
that they live there and that the hours are horrifying.
But it's it's in why is it? Why is it
you think that they're able to show so much of
(19:25):
the living conditions without actually coming up against the fact
that you live at your job. How do like they're
able to just skirt the bad parts? I guess, And
it almost feels like this sole dong wodgin lung thing
is kind of covering up parts of that, romanticizing this
industry that is quite horrible.
Speaker 7 (19:46):
I do think it is worth sort of emphasizing the
fact that these are corporate accounts, right, Like these are
not workers sharing their own experiences. These are you know,
companies that are are able to jump to the Great
Firewall and are able to sort of post on foreign
social media platforms because they are doing it in the
(20:09):
name of like, you know, getting customers, communicating with their customers,
advertising their business, whereas it would be riskier, right for
a you know, individual factory worker to actually post sort
of you know, authentic content about their job and about
their everyday experiences.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
You do see some of that, but it's it's.
Speaker 7 (20:29):
Much more rare, and I often find that it's people
who are in like a sales job and have a
little bit more cover or you know, a little bit
more familiarity with foreign platforms, maybe speak better English.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
So yeah, I think that's a good point.
Speaker 7 (20:44):
It's like, you know, I do also want to shy
away though, from the idea that every factory job in
China is horrible and that it's uniquely different from you know,
blue collar labor in other parts of the world, because
I guess I cover you fashion a lot, I cover
the e commerce industry, and time and time again, I
(21:06):
hear people say, oh, well, I feel better about this
sweater or whatever because it was made in America, And
I'm like, oh cool, So you mean the sweatshops here
in Los Angeles that are like ten miles away.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I'm not sure how that's any better.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
Right then, that's the next episode of the show.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Literally, that very subject, because you've got I think that
some of that as well is she In and Timu
and these companies that absolutely do and have grown off
of the international terrorists, but also the kind of labor
of rights violations, and I know China has tried to
clean up its act here it's just tried, and I
mean tried is something that's mitigated through some degree of
(21:44):
propagandas we know, but it's I think your point is
salient where it's not so much that China's doing perfect work,
but that America absolutely isn't and the conditions for blue
collar workers everywhere are pretty goddamn awful.
Speaker 7 (21:59):
Yeah, And I think what I always try and say
in these conversations is to like center it more on
the agency of these workers, because I think oftentimes, you know,
people say, oh, I feel so bad about like, you know,
the stuff I bought on she and like, you know,
those poor people who are being treated horribly. But that
kind of becomes an abstraction and it's like, Okay, those
people are just like an object of my guilt, right
(22:22):
instead of like actual people with complicated lives, you know,
some of whom chose these jobs, you know, perhaps because
they needed the money.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
But but I also push back a little bit on
that or didn't have a choice, yeah, or didn't have
a choice.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (22:37):
Yeah, But I think, like, you know, for example, if
you want to talk about like you know, complicated embroidery
or like certain types of like intricate garment work, right, Like,
that's a skill, and that's a skill that like you know,
companies can't just like get away with by like hiring
nine year olds to do right. Like, those are people
who you know, have dignity in their work, and I
think like it's important, I guess, just to like center
(22:59):
their humanity and stead of just being like all.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Those people who are treated horribly.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Yeah, and they're not just mindless drugs.
Speaker 6 (23:12):
I think there's I mean, the state of the working
conditions depends on extremely highly on the industry, depends on
the specific employer. I think a lot of things are changing,
and I think platforms like TikTok actually allows us to
see more people posting from their own lives and not
(23:32):
you know, these lists corporate portrayals of what the working
conditions actually are.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Are we seeing more of that out of China? Is
there a growth of that or is the has the
government moved against that because you see a decent amount
of it in America but over there, I don't know
if that's the case.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
I think on the Chinese platforms this is probably true.
So you know, like we know, like go in, which
is the TikTok the local version of TikTok. They're although
us other platforms like quite show, which target is much
more working class audiences, And on these platforms you basically
see people posting about their daily lives and the more
sort of oh this is what I uh, this is
(24:12):
what I did today. Right, It's completely innocuous. It's it's people. Uh,
there's no particular intention behind what they're doing. They're just like, oh,
this is this is what I ate, and this is
this is uh, this is where I went after work today.
So I think there is more insight into people's daily
lives from this new culture of like posting and sharing
on the internet that is increasingly taking the form.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
Of like video.
Speaker 6 (24:36):
You know, there there there is a reckoning I think
in the urban middle class that's looking at the sort
of content and saying, oh, okay, this is where this
is how people in factories live and this is how
they work.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (24:50):
Even within China, I think that recognition is increasingly relevant.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
Is there as agressive?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
So living in America growing up in England not really
had much exposure to China at all personally, is I
hear a lot of people saying, oh, the censorship there
is quite aggressive, and the government will move against you
for posting the wrong thing.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
How much truth lies in.
Speaker 6 (25:13):
That, that's a tough one.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I think there there, of course is a lot of
truth in it.
Speaker 7 (25:19):
I think it's completely fair to say that it's a
you know, much more censored internet ecosystem than perhaps anywhere
else in the world. But I think that people assume
that if you go on a Chinese social media app,
it's just everybody praising chijin paying and then like maybe
some like you know, benign fashion influencers. But I think
(25:39):
it's important to emphasize that it's a very colorful, unwieldy internet,
you know, of you know, one point four billion people,
just like anywhere else. And while the government is able
to sort of crack down much more quickly, and of course,
you know, a lot more content is censored, there's still
plenty of CD corners. There's still plenty of you know,
(26:02):
shocking or strange or weird uh stuff all over the
Chinese internet, and and a lot of these uh you know,
as Tanya was saying, these sort of like factory videos
are really common, or these videos of like sort of
everyday workers talking about their life. There's actually been a
trend of like farm workers, and uh, it's funny because
some of them have gotten in trouble for basically like
(26:24):
not actually being in farmers and just sort of doing
this like glamorization of like the simple life. And they're
often selling like fruits and vegetables. So it's like, oh,
look at my beautiful you know, Lee Chee farm or whatever,
and I live this idyllic life here, and it's like,
that's not where the leeches are actually coming from, Like
that beautiful girl and that sun dress is not actually
the person producing essentially, So you know, and I think
(26:50):
we've seen that in the US too, right, with sort
of like people sort of glamorizing a simpler way of
being or or a sort of lifestyle that maybe is
appealing in some ways to.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
The middle class. Yeah, cottage core, right exactly.
Speaker 7 (27:05):
That's it's it's sort of the Chinese equivalent of the
cottage core trend in a lot of ways. But I
do think, you know, going back to your question about
is it easier to know more now about how your
stuff is manufactured?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Probably not.
Speaker 7 (27:19):
I think you can sort of get a glimpse of
it through something like this glycine trend or whatever. But
it's definitely harder to get on the ground in China.
It's harder for companies to sort of do due diligence
than it was a few years ago. It's more difficult
to sort of audit your supply chain, figure out exactly
you know, who is the person or the company at
(27:42):
every step, you know, before you get that T shirt
from Timu. But I think what this trend shows is
that people want to know, right like, people want this information,
They want to have a better understanding. I don't think people. Yeah,
of course, there's there's tons of people who just don't care.
But I think that more can consumers and companies expect
(28:02):
do want a better sense of where the stuff they
buy comes from.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, and you, I think a good point to start
wrapping up on as well. Was you a pit to
have found an account for a dildo factory?
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yes, thank you for asking. I I did.
Speaker 7 (28:21):
It's it's beautiful. Uh, yeah, it's it's one of these accounts.
It's similar to sort of the glycine trend. A reader
my newsletter pointed it out to me on Twitter x
whatever you want to call it. And they make a
number of stuff they seem to make Basically these machines
(28:41):
that like extrude the like rubbery silicon that sex dolls
and dildos are made out of. So it's like this
giant long machine which you know, edit this out if
I can't say this, but they call it a pussy
ass production machine.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
And so it's like this all they uh, you know, seeing.
Speaker 7 (29:07):
The silicon and then you put it in these you know,
it comes out hot, and then you put it in
these giant molds and so it's amazing this factory sort
of like pans over to this you know, giant warehouse
of of these button molds essentially where the silicone is setting.
And uh, they do not seem to understand how funny this.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
Is communicating with people about it. What is the scuttle
butt there? Like, what is the communication like.
Speaker 7 (29:38):
It's just like it's again it's sort of this like
speech to text or text to speech software where it's
like clearly like a robot saying pussy ass production machine.
And they're sort of up the supply chain, right, so
they're not even Yeah, it would be like a little
bit more sort of not as funny or not as
interesting if they were actually selling the sex all. But
(30:00):
they're selling like these seven thousand dollars extruders that so
you can make your own at.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Home as well.
Speaker 5 (30:08):
I mean, I don't think you.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (30:11):
Also the minimum order is too, so you know, you
really have to want to commit to this, but that's
what they're selling. Yeah, and I think it's a you know,
perfect encapsulation of sort of like how bizarre and silly
this whole factory trend is.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
And I think to wrap us up here, Louise, have
you seen don wagin Long or indeed the posios machine
vendor communicate with anyone?
Speaker 5 (30:38):
Are they actually involved in this at all?
Speaker 7 (30:42):
So it was interesting because they started going super viral
during the tomb sweeping holiday in China, which is I
think tian you can correct me. I think it's like
a three or four day long holiday where you probably
explained Tianya what that is.
Speaker 6 (30:56):
It's a it's a traditional holiday for you to basically
like go commemorate their debt relatives. But you know it's
also a several day long holiday that people would just
go travel and do stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (31:11):
I think it's like Memorial Day weekend, Labor Day weekend
kind of holiday. So yeah, you know, it's the equivalent
of sort of like going super viral, like around a
holiday that everyone was supposed to log off, and probably
I would say that these people like are not actually
looking at TikTok that often, right, because this is not
where they're getting like their updates from their family and
(31:32):
friends usually. But they did seem to come back online,
and they commented on a few videos, one from this
user who made a number of viral videos called microplastic Cat.
So I know they commented on one of microplastic cats
meme videos, and I think they just said something sort
of generic. I get the sense that they're perhaps excited,
(31:55):
and probably whoever is doing this is like maybe I
can get a raise out of this. But I don't
get the sense that they fully understand why this is happening,
or you know, what the meaning is, or who all
these people are posting like funny songs and like joking
about like licene outfits or whatever.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I don't get the sense that they get it.
Speaker 7 (32:16):
And I think there's still sort of like you know,
a language and cultural barrier here.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
But I think they like it. I think they're probably happy.
Speaker 7 (32:22):
I think the social media manager is uh, you know,
probably going to do well, and their boss is happy
with them.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I think the funniest outcome from this might be that
they suddenly try and do they try and like join
the trend and stop trying to do irony. That would
make me very happy to see them try and probably fail.
But what what's actually worrying me as well is that
you're going to see American companies try and copy this,
and it's going to be very cringey.
Speaker 6 (32:49):
I think it'll be significantly less funny because they're doing
it ironically, whereas the chie companies are doing it with.
Speaker 7 (32:57):
I don't think American companies will do it because like
the number one thing American companies like do not want
right now is to be at all associated with China
in any way.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
That's true, So I don't think that they will do it.
Speaker 7 (33:10):
And I think that this level of like abstract ironic
meme is probably going to like you know, escape the
Chinese factories themselves.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
But that would be really funny.
Speaker 7 (33:21):
I would like to see you know, a single one
of them just like ask their teenage kids or whatever,
like what's going on here, because I do think you
know a lot of Chinese teenagers would be like, oh yeah,
this is like a stupid meme you know, and be
able to sort of help them navigate what's going on.
But for some reason that just like hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 6 (33:40):
It's also it's also you see these reports of dohago
and being mentioned in Chinese news, and people are like,
why is this funny? I don't get it.
Speaker 5 (33:48):
Yeah, actually that's the news covenant. Like I was like,
how is the reaction from the news of it?
Speaker 6 (33:54):
Just like I've seen some stories about oh, dohago, this
should drawn like seem product a producer is now famous
on TikTok in the US, and and like nobody seems
to understand why it's funny. Ah, and like something is
lost in translation.
Speaker 8 (34:14):
Yeah, in my mind, the dogwar gin lung chemical meme
is harmless in anyone feeling sinophobic, indigestion, or fears around
Chinese propaganda needs to either touch grass or reconsider their biases. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I kind of worry about stuff like this being baselessly
used as some kind of proof that China is brainwashing
young people into celebrating their industrial culture, despite the fact
that this is far more an example of great comedy
being formed in real time, something that's created as a
result of cultural exploration. And curiosity. We should celebrate this
(34:55):
kind of thing. It's fun that people are seeing different
things and making jokes. As a result, comedy on the
Internet has become rather flat, boring and frankly falsified. If
you've seen the Reddit beans boulders Gate meme going around
at the moment. It's fun to watch people having fun.
It's fun to watch them do something at a time
when every discussion of China is extremely serious and upsetting
(35:19):
and frankly based on a level of xenophobia that's deeply worrying. Nevertheless,
I've really enjoyed talking about this, and I'd like to
thank Louise and Tian you for joining me today and
credit for the videos plays that at the beginning goes
to Cities by Diana and Real Dan Yang, who are
both on Instagram on both hilarious.
Speaker 5 (35:47):
Thank you for listening to Better Offline.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song
is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music
and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, m A. T.
Tso w Ski dot com. You can email me at
easy at Better offline dot com, or check out Better
Offline dot.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
Com to find my newsletter and more links to this podcast.
Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. For
more from cool Zone
Speaker 5 (36:15):
Media, visit our website cool zonemedia dot com, or check
us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts.
Alzo Media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello and welcome to bear Offline. I'm your host at Zetron.
I need a saga. What's the saga? It's glycine, industrial
food grade glycine and its associated memes. In the last
(00:30):
few weeks, TikTok and other social networks have being flooded
with memes like this.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Then she gave me some glycine and I was like,
this ain't no Donghua Geelong. If you call this industrial
strength glycine, then this glycining's gotta hit the gym. You
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
And this Are you tired of being cucked by inferior
industrial and food grade glycine suppliers who don't adhere to
FCC six hundred and forty, uspvp EP and JSFA production standards.
Fear not glycine girlies, edge yourself down to Donguar jin Long.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
All inspired by an innocent promotional video created by doguar Jinlong,
a manufacturer of food grade glycine used to improve the
taste of things like soy sauce and juices, introducing Donghuar
gene Long's food grade glison Unlock Donguar gene Longs food
grade Glison in twenty twenty four, based on my research
and talking to people smarter than me, donguar Jin Long
(01:24):
and the wider Chinese society doesn't really seem to understand
why this is happening, nor why it's funny, and it
appears to have taken root in a combination of harmless banter.
Treating an extremely specific industry and its byproduct is a
thing we discussed in our regular lives and semi ironic
support of Chinese industry just as the American government seeks
(01:44):
to ban TikTok.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
So I got.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Together with two people that have found themselves just a
little too deep in this story joining me today to
talk about this extremely strange phenomenon is the writer of
you may also like Louise Mattsakis and writes and researcher
toy On You Fang.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
Thank you so much for joining me, both of you.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 6 (02:08):
It's great to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
So, Louise, you've been tracking Chinese factories for several years,
which is a great thing, and I love saying it.
First of all, why, but also what have you seen
from these factories on social media?
Speaker 7 (02:22):
So I would say around twenty twenty or twenty twenty one,
I started noticing that Chinese factories were opening TikTok accounts
and posting there. I don't think it's unusual that they
picked TikTok. You know, they were posting on Facebook, they
had WhatsApp accounts. These are manufacturers that need to court
overseas customers, and it's perfectly normal for them to have
(02:46):
social media accounts. But I think what was happening is
that a lot of them were starting to work with
marketing agencies who were saying, hey, you know, it's not
a bad idea to post on this platform that's getting
really popular.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
You know, we have our version here domes.
Speaker 7 (03:01):
And they started posting these mesmerizing clips.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
Uh.
Speaker 7 (03:06):
One I think about a lot is uh it's gardening
gloves being made.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
So you see these.
Speaker 7 (03:11):
Like fabric gardening gloves that are being you know, dipped
in liquefied rubber, so they get that rubber coating on
the tips of the fingers so you can you know,
dig in the dirt or whatever in your garden. They
reminded me, I don't know if you guys have ever
seen that show. I think it was called like how
It's Made. Uh, you know, it's a show on cable
(03:31):
TV probably you know, a decade, a decade and a
half ago. I think it's just sort of fascinating to
get a window into, you know, the world of manufacturing
which Western consumers are are so divorced from. So that's
kind of like the history of this trend on TikTok.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
And how about doung wadjin lung itself, how did that manifest?
Speaker 7 (03:54):
So what's happened recently is that these factories have seemingly
started using what I think is probably some sort of
AI software where they're translating a script and then doing
some sort of like text to speech.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So these videos sound really funny.
Speaker 7 (04:12):
And don Quadjin Long is this company that makes high
quality grade glyscene, which is a type of nutritional additive,
And I think the name the videos they were posting,
which were sort of like these like graphic edited videos
of like drone footage of their factory, was just really
really funny to a lot of people. You know, it
(04:34):
was sort of like, you know, high quality grade glyccene
made sort of nothing to most people in the West,
So I think it was just it was just sort
of this funny moment, and I think It also ties
into this existing trend on TikTok where a lot of
younger users make fun of the concerns in Washington about
the app being Chinese owned. You know, I've seen people
(04:56):
like joke about praying Tashi Jimpang or you know, like
rubbing statues of Mao and there.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
It's just a joke. But I think that.
Speaker 7 (05:06):
It sort of ties into that as well, like this
idea of it being this Chinese platform and sort of
like you know, Western users, you're joking on that and
joking about sort of the hysteria over it in Washington.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
And Janie, you were talking to me earlier about how
it was like sixty percent of glycine that comes out
of China is don't wadging lung. Is that What is
the scale of this company?
Speaker 5 (05:29):
What is this thing?
Speaker 6 (05:31):
Yeah? Sure, so actually I think the real scale is
smaller in that globally, glycin production is about I think
eight hundred thousand tons per year and don'hagil makes about
one hundred and twenty thousand tons, so it's not that much.
But it specializes in sort of industrial grade, right, so
(05:51):
it's not the normal like food additives that we see
in daily life, but sort of the kind of glycine
now you use in herbicide and other forms of sort
of more industrial production and less consumer So yeah, the
skill is pretty big. China now produces about half of
global glycines in total, and you know, previously that was
(06:15):
an American and European production in the nineties, but starting
the early two thousands there was more Asia production. So
dohajo own is based in Covid Province, which is right
outside of Beijing. That's where a lot of today's industrial grade,
high quality glycine comes from.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
So does this mean do you think any of this
is connected to the Chinese government? I don't mean that
in a paranoid way. Is any of this deliberate? I
think is the question for both you.
Speaker 6 (06:43):
Yeah, I would say no in a sense that it
seems just like privately owned companies. I checked the corporate records.
I didn't go that deep, but you know, it is
a private company that came out of the Chinese eighties
and nineties and seems to have done pretty well. And
if you look at these videos on TikTok, there's usually
a version on we Chat or other Chinese platforms that's
(07:07):
kind of similar. In Chinese as opposed to English. So
I imagine these videos were originally made for people to share
on Chinese social media platforms with business partners, so that
they can advertise their business to to like business people
in China who are a lot more interested in using
short video apps than I think they are American counterparts.
(07:29):
So I think there's a direct translation of that intention
into the American market, which I don't know if it's
working as intended.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Is it very common for Chinese businesses to actually use
this method though, even these industrial ones, Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 6 (07:45):
I think it's there is a TikTok you equivalent that's
built inside we Chat as well. And I think because
we Chat is a multi purpose app where you use
it both if you're a person who's just very online
or a person who actually runs your business. So the
by being on that short video platform that Pinson has
(08:06):
we Chat, you can very easily share these videos with
other people for business or entertainment purposes.
Speaker 7 (08:13):
I like, I think what's happening here is you're seeing
sort of TikTok's algorithm collide with this content that otherwise,
you know, American members would never see.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
When I looked into it.
Speaker 7 (08:30):
I saw that don Jua Geelong also had a Facebook
account where they actually had more followers at the time.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Than they did on TikTok.
Speaker 7 (08:39):
But the thing is, with a platform like Facebook or Instagram,
these people don't know what glycceine is, let alone, are
they like searching for a manufacturer in China that specifically
produces it, right, But with TikTok, the way that the
platform works is that you sort of get fed this
content and you decide whether you like it or not
(09:00):
by you know, paying attention, commenting, liking, sharing, and over time,
the algorithm will feed you more of it. Right, we
all know this, and you know, the reality is that
you don't know that you might think glycine is funny.
You don't know that it might be interesting to see
how gardening gloves are made or whatever. So I think
this is just an instance where the design of the
platform meant that this sort of strange thing started bubbling up.
(09:24):
Of course you see this on Twitter, on YouTube, on
other platforms, but I think in this case it sort of,
you know, happened to happen on TikTok, And I think
it would be a mistake to say it's just because
the platform is Chinese owned, that these Chinese factories are
doing well there, although I will say I think maybe
some of these marketing agencies and these bigger factories that
(09:46):
are doing this themselves maybe have more familiarity with TikTok
because of Doyene, which is the local version also owned.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
By by Dance.
Speaker 7 (09:55):
But I also think what's happening here is that you're
seeing Americans, you know, people in Europe connect to this stuff,
particularly because it portrays sort of like a more camp,
sort of like sillier side of China. You know, a
lot of these factories are really old school. They're maybe
(10:15):
owned by guys who I don't know about this case
in particular, but when I've talked to these factories, they're
often owned by like, you know, old school guys who
are sort of products of the cultural revolution, who you know,
chain smoke cigarettes and you know, drink tea all day long.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
But that's not really reflective of.
Speaker 7 (10:33):
Social media in China. You know, it's very sophisticated. There's
just exactly the same kinds of you know, hawk girl influencers,
you know, people with hot takes on those local platforms.
But I think it's not a coincidence that what's resonating
is more of sort of that like old school manufacturing
(10:55):
maybe like more foreign vibe and like you know, a
typical you know, Chinese fashion influencer who also has no
reason to post on a foreign platform, right, whereas like
these factories are actually looking for customers overseas, and I
wouldn't be too surprised if maybe there is somebody out
there who was looking for a glycine manufacturer.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
And you know, now they've found one.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, Tian, you have you found anything of other companies
trying to do this more deliberately?
Speaker 5 (11:33):
Have you seen anything that suggests that I'm.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
Not sure about on TikTok per se because I don't
follow that much glycy and content on TikTok, but I
makes one of the platform. Oh you know, I just
got started. But I think on Chinese platforms it's a
lot more common to see the sort of stuff as
in I do think that when I encountered this video
in Chinese, I was like, oh, this makes so much
(11:58):
more sense because people just post. There's I think there's
a culture of posting a short like two three minute
ad of their company or their factory to to show
sort of the working conditions of of of of of workers,
or or the kind of product products that they produce.
Just a very popular thing on Chinese social media, even
(12:21):
though it sort of caters to a particular audience, that is,
their potential customers. But at the same time, I think
there is an increased interest interest, as Louise said about
Chinese factory like videos on Western platforms. The one guy
I've been recently following is a Tony from Elsie's Sign
and he is a guy who works at a uh
(12:43):
I think uh electronic sign company like lights and billboards,
and he does weird English accents.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
Yeah his I now know who you mean.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
He has a peculiar accent And I said, this is
someone with a peculiar accent.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
Yeah, he does also different sources of accents, and people
just loved him, and I imagine it was the same intention,
but he was doing more successfully, you know, than like
glycine producers, mostly because I think more people are interested
in buying billboards and posters and like Sein.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Why do you think that it's so common in China
to post like for these videos to exist, Because I
can't think of an American equivalent of this.
Speaker 5 (13:24):
I guess you get people who like post like tract to.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Videos and such, and that is that niche thing. But
almost this industrial pride doesn't seem to exist over here.
Speaker 6 (13:34):
Yeah, I do think that's right. I think the difference
is the completeness of supply chain in China, where your
target customer is somebody who's above you in your supply
chain or below you in your supply chain. Uh, And
you have so many companies, so many factories, and so
many workshops that you know, are in the business of
(13:55):
supplying to you know, herbicide like you know, a manufacturing
So in that sense, you do have a much bigger
intended audience if you're a manufacturer on one specific part
of this process. So you know, obviously China has a
much larger industrial base, much larger manufacturing capacity, and a
(14:18):
lot more small businesses that are like dohaj loan trying
to buy products from other dohag loans. So in that
sense it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 7 (14:27):
I think another thing too, is that there's just sort
of a culture of documenting all aspects of sort of
what's going on in the factory via video.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
You know.
Speaker 7 (14:37):
A good example is, uh, it's very common in China
for recruiters or for you know, people who work at
these factories to sort of take videos of like what
does the dorm look like? You know, what is the cafeteria, like,
what is daily life like if you work at these factories,
and those videos are often designed to you know, recruit
more people to work there.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
But we've seen in the US that if you.
Speaker 7 (15:00):
You record your life at Amazon or your life in
a factory, you're probably going to get fired. And that's
not to say that, you know, if you filmed stuff
that was you know, painted painted your employer in a
bad light, that you wouldn't be you know, punished for that.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
In China, of course you would be.
Speaker 7 (15:17):
But I think there's a sort of more of a
culture of documenting all of this. And I think it's
also a result of people being much closer to manufacturing
and having a much more deep understanding of how these
supply chains work. You know, everybody in China knows somebody
who's involved in manufacturing in some capacity, unless, like I
don't know, you're the most elite person in Beijing who
(15:39):
you know only knows other intellectuals or something. You know,
there's somebody in your family, a relative, a friend who
was involved in this world, and so it's much more normalized,
I think, whereas for Americans it's like we had a
whole TV show fifteen years ago or something about how
stuff was made because you know, it was interesting to
people because we didn't know because that was already an
(16:00):
industry that was being offshore.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
And this is not necessarily saying this kind of culture
is good. But at the same time, it does feel
like there's almost more connection to more blue collar labor there,
and there's not so much in an obsession with Maybe
I'm wrong, please correct me, I'm wrong, but far less
of an attempt to escape those trappings. I feel like
America has a degree of shame for factory work while
(16:25):
also kind of lionizing the working class. And it's it's weird.
It's weird watching this happen, and it's weird watching Americans
kind of celebrate the glysiine lords, even ironically, it's been
peculiar to watch.
Speaker 7 (16:41):
I think, actually what you're seeing in China now is
exactly what you just described having happened in the US,
which is that there's way more college graduates now who
don't want to have sort of the same factory jobs
as their parents. I think that this work is really difficult.
It often doesn't pay super well. And now it's a
(17:02):
terrible book.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, but you're seeing.
Speaker 7 (17:07):
For sure, but you're seeing I think, like this manufacturing
labor pool in China starting to age, right, Like, younger
workers don't want to do this anymore. And you know,
China has said like, oh yeah, we're having you know,
problems sort of recruiting people to go to these factory jobs.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
And I think that's also because.
Speaker 7 (17:26):
You often have to live there, which is a really
big difference, right, Like you know, no one lives on
site at Amazon.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I hope, like please if you know about that, like
get in touch.
Speaker 7 (17:33):
But it's a different you know, it's an all encompassing
lifestyle where you're you're living on the campus, you're working
you know, six days a week, potentially long hours, and understandably,
you know, college graduates don't really want to do that.
So I think you're right that historically sort of, you know,
manufacturing was a huge way that China you know, lifted
a lot of people out of poverty and sort of
(17:54):
you know, increase its GDP very rapidly. But at the
same time you're seeing exactly what you described in the
US of this is not something that a lot of
young people are excited about doing, but it's still happening on.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
A much bigger scale there than it is here anymore.
Speaker 6 (18:09):
I do think the long hours that people spend in
these factories is very important in a sense that it
sort of resembles this socialist legacy where even though you
know most of these companies are privately owned these days,
you know, in these state owned enterprises and state owned factories,
in the seventies and eighties, you did live with your
co workers, you had your own houses, you would do
(18:30):
cafeterias with your co workers. So there was an assumption
of some sort of social cohesion with your workplace outside
of work itself. And this is why we're seeing a
lot of people posting about their you know, lives in factories,
also in part because they have probably very little life
(18:51):
outside of the work workplace, which could be a terrible
thing in many cases because of the long working hours
these days. So I do think that culture is still
embedded in some some types of factory work in China.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, And it's the other thing is as well, is
that it feels like some of this is being used
to kind of cover up the grosser side, things like
that they live there and that the hours are horrifying.
But it's it's in why is it? Why is it
you think that they're able to show so much of
(19:25):
the living conditions without actually coming up against the fact
that you live at your job. How do like they're
able to just skirt the bad parts? I guess, And
it almost feels like this sole dong wodgin lung thing
is kind of covering up parts of that, romanticizing this
industry that is quite horrible.
Speaker 7 (19:46):
I do think it is worth sort of emphasizing the
fact that these are corporate accounts, right, Like these are
not workers sharing their own experiences. These are you know,
companies that are are able to jump to the Great
Firewall and are able to sort of post on foreign
social media platforms because they are doing it in the
(20:09):
name of like, you know, getting customers, communicating with their customers,
advertising their business, whereas it would be riskier, right for
a you know, individual factory worker to actually post sort
of you know, authentic content about their job and about
their everyday experiences.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
You do see some of that, but it's it's.
Speaker 7 (20:29):
Much more rare, and I often find that it's people
who are in like a sales job and have a
little bit more cover or you know, a little bit
more familiarity with foreign platforms, maybe speak better English.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
So yeah, I think that's a good point.
Speaker 7 (20:44):
It's like, you know, I do also want to shy
away though, from the idea that every factory job in
China is horrible and that it's uniquely different from you know,
blue collar labor in other parts of the world, because
I guess I cover you fashion a lot, I cover
the e commerce industry, and time and time again, I
(21:06):
hear people say, oh, well, I feel better about this
sweater or whatever because it was made in America, And
I'm like, oh cool, So you mean the sweatshops here
in Los Angeles that are like ten miles away.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I'm not sure how that's any better.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
Right then, that's the next episode of the show.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Literally, that very subject, because you've got I think that
some of that as well is she In and Timu
and these companies that absolutely do and have grown off
of the international terrorists, but also the kind of labor
of rights violations, and I know China has tried to
clean up its act here it's just tried, and I
mean tried is something that's mitigated through some degree of
(21:44):
propagandas we know, but it's I think your point is
salient where it's not so much that China's doing perfect work,
but that America absolutely isn't and the conditions for blue
collar workers everywhere are pretty goddamn awful.
Speaker 7 (21:59):
Yeah, And I think what I always try and say
in these conversations is to like center it more on
the agency of these workers, because I think oftentimes, you know,
people say, oh, I feel so bad about like, you know,
the stuff I bought on she and like, you know,
those poor people who are being treated horribly. But that
kind of becomes an abstraction and it's like, Okay, those
people are just like an object of my guilt, right
(22:22):
instead of like actual people with complicated lives, you know,
some of whom chose these jobs, you know, perhaps because
they needed the money.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
But but I also push back a little bit on
that or didn't have a choice, yeah, or didn't have
a choice.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (22:37):
Yeah, But I think, like, you know, for example, if
you want to talk about like you know, complicated embroidery
or like certain types of like intricate garment work, right, Like,
that's a skill, and that's a skill that like you know,
companies can't just like get away with by like hiring
nine year olds to do right. Like, those are people
who you know, have dignity in their work, and I
think like it's important, I guess, just to like center
(22:59):
their humanity and stead of just being like all.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Those people who are treated horribly.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Yeah, and they're not just mindless drugs.
Speaker 6 (23:12):
I think there's I mean, the state of the working
conditions depends on extremely highly on the industry, depends on
the specific employer. I think a lot of things are changing,
and I think platforms like TikTok actually allows us to
see more people posting from their own lives and not
(23:32):
you know, these lists corporate portrayals of what the working
conditions actually are.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Are we seeing more of that out of China? Is
there a growth of that or is the has the
government moved against that because you see a decent amount
of it in America but over there, I don't know
if that's the case.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
I think on the Chinese platforms this is probably true.
So you know, like we know, like go in, which
is the TikTok the local version of TikTok. They're although
us other platforms like quite show, which target is much
more working class audiences, And on these platforms you basically
see people posting about their daily lives and the more
sort of oh this is what I uh, this is
(24:12):
what I did today. Right, It's completely innocuous. It's it's people. Uh,
there's no particular intention behind what they're doing. They're just like, oh,
this is this is what I ate, and this is
this is uh, this is where I went after work today.
So I think there is more insight into people's daily
lives from this new culture of like posting and sharing
on the internet that is increasingly taking the form.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
Of like video.
Speaker 6 (24:36):
You know, there there there is a reckoning I think
in the urban middle class that's looking at the sort
of content and saying, oh, okay, this is where this
is how people in factories live and this is how
they work.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (24:50):
Even within China, I think that recognition is increasingly relevant.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
Is there as agressive?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
So living in America growing up in England not really
had much exposure to China at all personally, is I
hear a lot of people saying, oh, the censorship there
is quite aggressive, and the government will move against you
for posting the wrong thing.
Speaker 5 (25:12):
How much truth lies in.
Speaker 6 (25:13):
That, that's a tough one.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I think there there, of course is a lot of
truth in it.
Speaker 7 (25:19):
I think it's completely fair to say that it's a
you know, much more censored internet ecosystem than perhaps anywhere
else in the world. But I think that people assume
that if you go on a Chinese social media app,
it's just everybody praising chijin paying and then like maybe
some like you know, benign fashion influencers. But I think
(25:39):
it's important to emphasize that it's a very colorful, unwieldy internet,
you know, of you know, one point four billion people,
just like anywhere else. And while the government is able
to sort of crack down much more quickly, and of course,
you know, a lot more content is censored, there's still
plenty of CD corners. There's still plenty of you know,
(26:02):
shocking or strange or weird uh stuff all over the
Chinese internet, and and a lot of these uh you know,
as Tanya was saying, these sort of like factory videos
are really common, or these videos of like sort of
everyday workers talking about their life. There's actually been a
trend of like farm workers, and uh, it's funny because
some of them have gotten in trouble for basically like
(26:24):
not actually being in farmers and just sort of doing
this like glamorization of like the simple life. And they're
often selling like fruits and vegetables. So it's like, oh,
look at my beautiful you know, Lee Chee farm or whatever,
and I live this idyllic life here, and it's like,
that's not where the leeches are actually coming from, Like
that beautiful girl and that sun dress is not actually
the person producing essentially, So you know, and I think
(26:50):
we've seen that in the US too, right, with sort
of like people sort of glamorizing a simpler way of
being or or a sort of lifestyle that maybe is
appealing in some ways to.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
The middle class. Yeah, cottage core, right exactly.
Speaker 7 (27:05):
That's it's it's sort of the Chinese equivalent of the
cottage core trend in a lot of ways. But I
do think, you know, going back to your question about
is it easier to know more now about how your
stuff is manufactured?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Probably not.
Speaker 7 (27:19):
I think you can sort of get a glimpse of
it through something like this glycine trend or whatever. But
it's definitely harder to get on the ground in China.
It's harder for companies to sort of do due diligence
than it was a few years ago. It's more difficult
to sort of audit your supply chain, figure out exactly
you know, who is the person or the company at
(27:42):
every step, you know, before you get that T shirt
from Timu. But I think what this trend shows is
that people want to know, right like, people want this information,
They want to have a better understanding. I don't think people. Yeah,
of course, there's there's tons of people who just don't care.
But I think that more can consumers and companies expect
(28:02):
do want a better sense of where the stuff they
buy comes from.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, and you, I think a good point to start
wrapping up on as well. Was you a pit to
have found an account for a dildo factory?
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yes, thank you for asking. I I did.
Speaker 7 (28:21):
It's it's beautiful. Uh, yeah, it's it's one of these accounts.
It's similar to sort of the glycine trend. A reader
my newsletter pointed it out to me on Twitter x
whatever you want to call it. And they make a
number of stuff they seem to make Basically these machines
(28:41):
that like extrude the like rubbery silicon that sex dolls
and dildos are made out of. So it's like this
giant long machine which you know, edit this out if
I can't say this, but they call it a pussy
ass production machine.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
And so it's like this all they uh, you know, seeing.
Speaker 7 (29:07):
The silicon and then you put it in these you know,
it comes out hot, and then you put it in
these giant molds and so it's amazing this factory sort
of like pans over to this you know, giant warehouse
of of these button molds essentially where the silicone is setting.
And uh, they do not seem to understand how funny this.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
Is communicating with people about it. What is the scuttle
butt there? Like, what is the communication like.
Speaker 7 (29:38):
It's just like it's again it's sort of this like
speech to text or text to speech software where it's
like clearly like a robot saying pussy ass production machine.
And they're sort of up the supply chain, right, so
they're not even Yeah, it would be like a little
bit more sort of not as funny or not as
interesting if they were actually selling the sex all. But
(30:00):
they're selling like these seven thousand dollars extruders that so
you can make your own at.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Home as well.
Speaker 5 (30:08):
I mean, I don't think you.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (30:11):
Also the minimum order is too, so you know, you
really have to want to commit to this, but that's
what they're selling. Yeah, and I think it's a you know,
perfect encapsulation of sort of like how bizarre and silly
this whole factory trend is.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
And I think to wrap us up here, Louise, have
you seen don wagin Long or indeed the posios machine
vendor communicate with anyone?
Speaker 5 (30:38):
Are they actually involved in this at all?
Speaker 7 (30:42):
So it was interesting because they started going super viral
during the tomb sweeping holiday in China, which is I
think tian you can correct me. I think it's like
a three or four day long holiday where you probably
explained Tianya what that is.
Speaker 6 (30:56):
It's a it's a traditional holiday for you to basically
like go commemorate their debt relatives. But you know it's
also a several day long holiday that people would just
go travel and do stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (31:11):
I think it's like Memorial Day weekend, Labor Day weekend
kind of holiday. So yeah, you know, it's the equivalent
of sort of like going super viral, like around a
holiday that everyone was supposed to log off, and probably
I would say that these people like are not actually
looking at TikTok that often, right, because this is not
where they're getting like their updates from their family and
(31:32):
friends usually. But they did seem to come back online,
and they commented on a few videos, one from this
user who made a number of viral videos called microplastic Cat.
So I know they commented on one of microplastic cats
meme videos, and I think they just said something sort
of generic. I get the sense that they're perhaps excited,
(31:55):
and probably whoever is doing this is like maybe I
can get a raise out of this. But I don't
get the sense that they fully understand why this is happening,
or you know, what the meaning is, or who all
these people are posting like funny songs and like joking
about like licene outfits or whatever.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I don't get the sense that they get it.
Speaker 7 (32:16):
And I think there's still sort of like you know,
a language and cultural barrier here.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
But I think they like it. I think they're probably happy.
Speaker 7 (32:22):
I think the social media manager is uh, you know,
probably going to do well, and their boss is happy
with them.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I think the funniest outcome from this might be that
they suddenly try and do they try and like join
the trend and stop trying to do irony. That would
make me very happy to see them try and probably fail.
But what what's actually worrying me as well is that
you're going to see American companies try and copy this,
and it's going to be very cringey.
Speaker 6 (32:49):
I think it'll be significantly less funny because they're doing
it ironically, whereas the chie companies are doing it with.
Speaker 7 (32:57):
I don't think American companies will do it because like
the number one thing American companies like do not want
right now is to be at all associated with China
in any way.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
That's true, So I don't think that they will do it.
Speaker 7 (33:10):
And I think that this level of like abstract ironic
meme is probably going to like you know, escape the
Chinese factories themselves.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
But that would be really funny.
Speaker 7 (33:21):
I would like to see you know, a single one
of them just like ask their teenage kids or whatever,
like what's going on here, because I do think you
know a lot of Chinese teenagers would be like, oh yeah,
this is like a stupid meme you know, and be
able to sort of help them navigate what's going on.
But for some reason that just like hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 6 (33:40):
It's also it's also you see these reports of dohago
and being mentioned in Chinese news, and people are like,
why is this funny? I don't get it.
Speaker 5 (33:48):
Yeah, actually that's the news covenant. Like I was like,
how is the reaction from the news of it?
Speaker 6 (33:54):
Just like I've seen some stories about oh, dohago, this
should drawn like seem product a producer is now famous
on TikTok in the US, and and like nobody seems
to understand why it's funny. Ah, and like something is
lost in translation.
Speaker 8 (34:14):
Yeah, in my mind, the dogwar gin lung chemical meme
is harmless in anyone feeling sinophobic, indigestion, or fears around
Chinese propaganda needs to either touch grass or reconsider their biases. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I kind of worry about stuff like this being baselessly
used as some kind of proof that China is brainwashing
young people into celebrating their industrial culture, despite the fact
that this is far more an example of great comedy
being formed in real time, something that's created as a
result of cultural exploration. And curiosity. We should celebrate this
(34:55):
kind of thing. It's fun that people are seeing different
things and making jokes. As a result, comedy on the
Internet has become rather flat, boring and frankly falsified. If
you've seen the Reddit beans boulders Gate meme going around
at the moment. It's fun to watch people having fun.
It's fun to watch them do something at a time
when every discussion of China is extremely serious and upsetting
(35:19):
and frankly based on a level of xenophobia that's deeply worrying. Nevertheless,
I've really enjoyed talking about this, and I'd like to
thank Louise and Tian you for joining me today and
credit for the videos plays that at the beginning goes
to Cities by Diana and Real Dan Yang, who are
both on Instagram on both hilarious.
Speaker 5 (35:47):
Thank you for listening to Better Offline.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song
is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music
and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, m A. T.
Tso w Ski dot com. You can email me at
easy at Better offline dot com, or check out Better
Offline dot.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
Com to find my newsletter and more links to this podcast.
Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. For
more from cool Zone
Speaker 5 (36:15):
Media, visit our website cool zonemedia dot com, or check
us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.