#199 - Jim Beavers on writing 14 year old Taylor Swift, Plays Work Tapes of Chris Stapleton and The Song He Didn’t Think Anyone Would Cut

Jim Beavers has written no. 1 songs for Luke Bryan, Dierks Bentley, Tim McGraw and more. He talks about growing up in Texas and moving to Nashville working on the business side of music before becoming a writer. He plays us some work tapes of Chris Stapleton doing songs for Hootie and The Blowfish and Luke Bryan. He also talks about how he got to write with Taylor Swift before she was famous…and why they never finished the song they wrote. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, welcome to episode with Jim Beaver, which you
come in and we've been up here before. Just the
whole setup wasn't up. Yeah, I've never seen the lights
up here, talking to the talking to the mica. Sorry,
I've never done this before with this, this is literally
my first podcast, a first Bobby Cat. I'm sorry. Have
you ever done a podcast? Oh you haven't. An we'll welcome.

(00:21):
I'm like, just you've talked in a microphone. Here's my
story with Jim real quick. So we go out and
Jim and Jim and we go out. Alright, we go
out and we're an Amarillo in El Paso one weekend
and I think it was El Paso where you came
up on stage, uh where you called me up from

(00:41):
stage speak. We're playing. Jim has been writing songs with
me in a little bit with Eddie two for this record.
We're about to cut and by the time you hear this,
it may already be out. But so Gem's in the
audience and I'm like, Jim Beever's come up in Plass
the Gym's written such songs as you know, uh five
oh from Dirk spend Lee and Red Solo A Cup
and watching airplanes. I'm like, Jim, come up. And I

(01:03):
was like, oh wow, we got a real live Nashville song,
right and yeah, having for you pretty cool. And Jim
walks up and does like three words. I was like,
thank you, good night everybody, or like, come on, well,
I didn't I had no idea. I didn't know that
call me. Yeah, I didn't know. I don't want to
give your heads up. Yeah, I know it's not because
if I go, because we've been for two days, we've
been together, just writing songs in the road, haven't you know,

(01:25):
talking And I said, Hey, I'm gonna call you up
on stage tonight at the end of the show. Yeah,
you would have spent a lot of the time that
we were creating going, oh you god, I gotta go
singing in front of two thousand people. I would have
been thinking about it the whole time, and and I
wouldn't been to enjoy your show. I was trying to
watch your show just two because I hadn't seen it before,
so I was really trying to be like an audience member,
and that would have changed my point of view. So

(01:46):
I'm glad. I'm glad in retrospect that you didn't so
strategic move on my strategic strategic in the highest level. Yeah,
no question. And I think you you came out and
did a little bit of red solo coup and then
you wrote drink a beer, and you went out and
you went, I don't drink beer, thank you very much,
and we're like, come on, I just gave a chorus.

(02:07):
I just came in. Course. I didn't know how long
you want to be up there. I was. I was
just trying to get off stage. But you see how
tightly loose we run a ship. Yes, I do now, yes,
like you would look at it and go, oh, they
don't know what they're doing. They're just out there doing
whatever they want as as loosely as possible. However, not
the case. A lot of it is package to look
like we're running loose, and there's an art to that.

(02:28):
And I know that there's a high level of skill
to to moderate level let's go well, but it's it's
like we kind of when we go into studio. You know,
if you're cutting demos or even cutting a record or
something you have, you may have very clear ideas of
what you think you want to hear, but you've also
got to allow for some magic to happen that you
didn't plan on, whether it's the musicians or just a
happy accident. So I think you obviously have a You

(02:50):
do a lot of this, so you know you know
how to balance it out. But I wasn't ready to
come on stage. I don't know it was a blur.
But you did have your nice T shirt. I did
have a nice T shirt because even before this show,
You're like, I've got a nice Mizzi top T shirt
a show shirt. Yeah, it's nice and tight and black.
I didn't want you to wear your show short and
not be able to do a show. Had man spank,
so didn't yeah side of it. It had everything. You

(03:11):
look great, Thanks bro, Thank you. All Right, so we're here,
I'm gonna run through before we start talking about the
life of Jim Beavers. I'm gonna mention and play some
of the clips from songs will come back to them.
Five one five oh from Dirk Spenley. The song went
number one. Congratulations on now thanks to wote that one?
Am I the only one from Dirk Spenley bo when

(03:35):
number one? Congrats on that appreciate that Sideways from Dirk Spentley,
All up tempo All fun went number one. Congratulations like
I'm very uh, why don't we just dance? From Josh Turner,
he wrote that one we just stay right on the

(03:57):
hook when number one drink of here. Number one wrote
that fell good on my lips. Tim McGraw went number one,
So we'll walk. There's some more of those in amount,
some other songs you wrote, but I wanted to highlight
one to three, four, five, six, number one. You have

(04:20):
a lot of number two's and some songs that I
thought went number one. For example, we'll come back to
Red Solo Cup what you wrote, which only piked a
number nine, But I think maybe remember more than any
of those number ones. Oddly, I mean Red Solo Cup
is just it's a song that I, you know, I
have to I have to talk about on a weekly basis.
Somebody brings it up. It had a huge impact, and

(04:42):
and it was you and I talked about it one time.
It's like that that song, to me, is a perfect
example of that song was wanting to be written because
that that that notion of good times and that cup
was just floating in the ether and somebody just had
to put a name to it. And that's all we did.
It was like it was just a more than that.

(05:02):
More than that, you're not giving yourself enough credit the songs.
Songs don't just float. Yeah, you you have to be
Why don't we just digging on this one for a second. Things?
I like that, first of all, let's relax. Yeah, maybe
I'm not saying the song itself, for the lyrics were floating.
But you can't sit down and manufacture or predict what
happened with that song. I guess what I'm trying to

(05:22):
say is that one and one really did make three.
It was like, but who noticed that that was such
a part of everybody's everyday life? There you go, Huh
where the idea come from? Yeah? Like that? There's so
many red cups when no one's writing about that. Well,
I mean I had the idea for a long all
all songwriters or most songwriters, I assume, uh you know, now,

(05:44):
on our phones, you can just keep a running list
of any little tidbit could be an idea. It could
be just a hook, could be anything. And um my
son and I were going to a Vanderbilt football game,
and he was a little little boy, and we were
walking through the tailgate area and and I don't only
remember this in retrospect because the song became so big,
But I remember walking through and I noticed, for some reason,

(06:05):
everybody was drinking out these red cups. I was like,
red cups many, but everybody's got the red cup. So
I pulled my phone out and I typed in red
plastic cup. And when I wrote down and um, I
didn't think anything else about it, because it joined the
list of I don't know, two thousand ideas or more
that most never turned into anything, but I always on
the discipline just try to write them down. But then,

(06:28):
but then within a couple of weeks either I can't.
I think I was at my house and I was
walking through the room and on TV it was either
commercial or a movie or something, but there was a
scene of playing beer pong and they had the red
cups again, and so that really made my spidy sense tangle.
Can I say that I have to take it to corner?

(06:50):
This is? This is not? And so that made immediately
go back, well, there it is again, And so then
I thought there was something there, and I thought maybe
I don't know, I don't really believe this. Maybe the
universe was telling me that there's something there. And and
then um, I was sitting out by myself one night
on my on my back deck, playing my guitar and
spoke in a cigar where you know, a lot of

(07:12):
a lot of ideas and and songs have gone up
and hits have started for me. I don't know why.
So that's why I spoke a lot. Now I need
to smoke more. And um, and I just it just
kind of popped into my head just at that chorus.
And then I got together with with guys, you know,
the Warren brothers and my brothers. So it was unique
that there were two sets of brothers and we were

(07:33):
just trying to make each other laugh. We never in
a million years thought anything would have happen with that
song or anybody would cut it. So it was just crazy.
Still is so whenever you decide to, you know, to
do that song, and I mean, you write it, and
you said you didn't expect you want to cut it? Like,
what do you do with it? We we actually the

(07:53):
true story is, um, we were over at a studio
in berry Hill called Station West that a buddy of
all of ours named Luke Wooten runs and I think
the Warren the Warren brothers and the Beavers brothers. We
caught ourselves the Warren Beavers, which is obvious. We were
writing i think every other Wednesday or something. We just
had a regular writing point. We also wrote Felting on
My Lips. It was kind of that same crew. We

(08:15):
were just trying to come up with something and Luke
Wooden was walking by and heard us in there singing
and he poked his head. He goes, what is that?
You know, it's just a stupid song or just cutting up.
It's about a red cup, you know whatever. Anyway, he
loved it, and that day before we left, he came
and he said, y'all come in here and just put
it down. Just put it down. So we literally walked
into the studio. He had one microphone set up and

(08:35):
we just cut it one time for him because he
wanted it. And then that is what got out, and
and what and now how does the song get out?
What did that mean? What does that think? People started
forwarding it, forwarding it around to each other, and then
we actually made a little kind of fake CD that
had like five or six songs on it that we
had written, and Red Soil Cup we put on there

(08:55):
and felt felting on. My ups were was on there
as well, and it was more just kind of us
a vehicle to pitch the songs we had written to
the town, you know, so artists would would maybe cut them,
or at least somebody would laugh and have have fun. Anyway,
So Red Soil Cup just started jumping out and nobody
was talking about it, and people started calling us, wanted
to write with us because they heard it. I mean,

(09:15):
you know, I could have never predicted it anyway. I
don't know exactly how it happened, but somehow it got
to you know, the story of hers. It got to
Toby Keith out on the road somewhere and you know,
people were listening to it on their busses and he
heard it and he said, you know the story he
tells is you know the song ended. He said, that's
the stupidest thing I've ever heard my life played again,
and they did. He said, I want to cut it,

(09:36):
and they did. So that was it. Man, did anyone
before Toby come, I go, I want to cut it.
Tim McGraw at one point said he was gonna cut
it and put it on his record, like as an
hidden track or something, not the target, the dreaded maybe
the best buy, a limited edition only in the Southeast,
you know, I don't. I don't know how serious he was.
But and that didn't come to fruition, No, it didn't

(09:58):
far as I don't know. And maybe so hidden, I
mean right, it may be on one target CD, so
so secret, so secret. No, it never did happen. Is
that exciting when they go, hey, Tim mccross thinking about it?
And then is it deflating when they go, You're not
gonna do it? Uh? Yeah, I mean you can't. You
can't help but get your hopes up. At least me,
I can only speak for myself. I still get my

(10:19):
hopes up. You know about songs that that I feel
a strong connection to her or or just that I
think are really great and I really wish somebody would
um sing them, or that people could hear them, And um,
you're inevitably you're you're gonna be disappointed about of the time.
And I've got a lot better at not getting emotionally
invested in songs. Um, but I still do. I still do.

(10:42):
You can't. I think if you lose that ability, then
you may lose your reason for writing. So I don't
want to lose at all, but I have gotten better
kind of smoothing out the emotional wavelengths of highs and
lows and get your hopes up and stuff like that.
With a song like Red So Look Up, which peaked
at nine, which is what I'm looking at here. I
would have thought had you just asked me that that

(11:02):
was the number one song, with the impact that it
had kind of on the country music culture, it lasts.
I still play it sometimes inside of our dance party,
like that's still a fun song. And just monetarily speaking,
does that song make anywhere close to let's say I
felt good on my lips because of the downloads, like
I would probably not if you just want to get

(11:23):
in the weeds of the business. No, the the majority
of our money is all made, you know, on how
long the song stays in the top five. To be honest,
and the way things are now with songwriters, it's like
you you really can only make a living if you're
having hits hits on the radio. I mean, streaming has
not been good to us. Um, there's really not a

(11:44):
lot of synchronization rights to be to be spoken of.
So no, I would say that felt good on my
lips probably made more money than than a Red Soak Up,
although Red Soak Up I'm sure had a bigger you know,
cultural impact. Now it may have sold you know, Red
Soak Cup probably sold more you know copies. And like
I said, like you said, without question, if I play

(12:05):
a writer's round or something. You know, even people who
don't know or like country music, they always know that song.
That's the one I know I can do, and they'll go, oh, oh, yeah,
my cousin, Yeah I got drunk to that or something.
So I think everybody's cousin got drunk to that. Every
cousin got drunk to that song. Maybe maybe lots of cousins.
You grew up in Texas, I did, wh what town? Um?

(12:26):
I lived um in a town called Garland, Um for
a while, and then I went to high school in Jacksonville,
which is in East Texas, not far from Tyler and
part of the Piney Woods, which I know you grew
up in the pines. So well, I got up a
mountain pine Arkansas. I mean even have the word pine
in the end of your town. We're also probably cousins. Yeah,
that's well, you know, that's how it works down there
and you go from there? And did you study music

(12:47):
in school? Were you that kid? Were the music kid?
I didn't study. No, I played. I didn't. I never
studied music. Um, but I played. I started playing banjo
and I was probably about thirteen on which to uh
the church camp and uh I saw a guy named
I'll be Porter playing banjo one afternoon at one of
our little you know where all the kids have to
walk over and listen to somebody do something, and uh,

(13:08):
I was remember just it was a real watershed kind
of moment. I was very besmerized by it, and I
was taking lessons from him, you know, a week later
and uh So I played banjo for a while and
I started playing guitar just a couple of years after that.
But I never formally studied. You tell your folks i'd
like a banjo. Yeah, I did. I had to go
in and say, mom, dad, I have some bad news.
What is this son? I want to take banjo lessons? Oh? God,

(13:31):
anything but that please. So how did they get you
a banjo? They go the pawn shop. Where do you
get a banjo? Music stores? Yeah, I went with Bobby.
He took me and um, he took me to a
music store and helped me pick one out. Yeah, were
you the banjo kid at cool Um? Yeah, I don't
think there are any other one, so I probably was
the banjo kid. And they were like, there's a little
Jimmy Jimmy banjo, Mr Banjo. They call me banjo beavers

(13:53):
a couple of guys, And I know you love Steve
Martin and I would love. I loved Steve Barton. And
on the I had the forty five of King and
on the flip side was him playing a banjo song.
And that also was another reason why I wanted to learn.
It's called Sally Good and it's an old banjo standard
that he's played. It's the flip side. So so you're studying,
I know you're you're learning. I studying learning to me

(14:14):
the same, you're not studying it. I know you how
are you learning? It? Were just playing? We just playing.
I had an older brother who played a little bit
um and I had a good friend named Dale. He
took guitar lessons from Bobby. I took banjo lessons from Bobby,
and he was my best friend. And on the weekends.
You know, this is pre good video games or any
kind of cell phone or any kind of mazing. I mean,

(14:35):
that's that's all we did. We said around, We picked
and we listened to records, and we tried to slow
him down figure amount. I was, Um, you know, I
had a cassette and I would wait for the radio
to play my favorite song and I'd missed the intro,
but I'd get the rest of it, and I sit
there and try to learn the song. And uh, And
I think that tactile, you know, relationship with music, which
we don't have anymore. I think that was real, you know,

(14:57):
no punitentid real instrumental in just me, you know, being
all in and being into it. And then you know,
you start meeting other people and weirdos like you, and
you start putting together bands, and you know, you just
do it because you love it. You're not really thinking why,
you just want to do it. So whenever you're going
to school, going to college, are you wanting to persue music? No?

(15:18):
I went to UH. I went to school at Baylor
in Waco, Texas, and I was a business UH and
broadcasting major. Um. They probably didn't have any kind of
commercial music program that I know of. I'm sure they
had a music program. But I had no interest in
learning how to read music or being in an orchestra.
That never. I wanted to go play in Honkey Talks,

(15:39):
So I did that. So you kept playing though as
you're playing in business, you kept playing music. Oh yeah, yeah,
I played the band. In fact, I played the band.
Played a couple of bands, but want the band. I
ended up playing at Baylor and back then this is
the late eighties, and then you know, the country was
really about It's really about the boom Big in the
early nine he's been the late eighties. In Texas, it
was a thing, man, and you could back a for

(16:00):
a for a a college kid. I mean, I made
good money on the weekends. And there's so many dance
holes and places down there and they're still there and
everybody danced, and so you just go play top fourty covers. Man.
That was great for my playing and writing. I had to, hey,
we need to learn this new Dwight Yoacom song for
this weekend and stuff like that. So and that band
was called Sons of the Desert. They actually ended up

(16:21):
getting a record deal after I don't have to move
up here, and then they got better when the guy
that replaced me. Really, I mean, no, kid, he's a
really good lead singer. Were you the singer? Yeah, yeah,
kind of the main singer. And then I got Drew
Walwick replaced me. And then they came up here and
got a record deal after I had already moved up here.
So it's kind of a weird, weird circle weird. And

(16:43):
were you jealous a little bit? I really was, because
I had no interest in being an artist or having
a record deal, with being involved with that stuff. I
was more just happy and thought it was cool and
happy for them, you know, and thought it would be
an interesting thing to be a piece of, you know. So,
so he moved to Nashville after a graduation from Baylor. Correct,
you move here, and what's the plan? What do you

(17:04):
want to do? I wanted to, um run a record company. Someday,
That's what I want to do. My first job in town,
I had a couple of unpaid internships. My first job
was mail room at Capital UM fifteen grand a year
and maybe the happiest I've ever been to get a job,
you know. UM. And so that was my first job
here and UM and then I kind of moved into

(17:26):
the finance department because they had a job opening and
I really didn't want to do finance, but it was
the first way out of the mail room, so I
took it. And in retrospect, it was a great, really
great opportunity to learn so much about just the business
side of of how everything. If you know where the
money is going, you know, then you kind of have
to figure out everything else. At that time, Garth was exploding,

(17:48):
and so there was just so much financial stuff going
on and so much energy at the label that it
it was a great educational experience for me. That's where
I'm met Tom. So my manager, Tom Betchy was the
guy who was like, hey, you know, I think you're
like I think you're like Jim Bieber's. He kind of
set us up on our blind day, he did. He
was my boss for a while, that's right. And I

(18:09):
was talking to him today. We were flying back from
New York and we were talking about some stuff and
he goes, let me tell you about Jim. I said,
what's up? Because that guy used to play guitar in
his office when he should have been working, right. It
was like he should have been doing like what he's
supposed to be doing, but we'd walk by and he'd
be over there writing songs. And that's true, it's true.
But I was just really quick with my work. And
then i'd keep the guitar in office and I, you know,

(18:31):
make up funny songs for people, and I'd write, you know,
all that kind of stuff. So when I look back,
it makes complete sense of what happened and kind of
where I ended up. But at the time I didn't.
I could never have predicted it or thought it would
happen like this, you know, I'd be sitting here with
you or it's just this is a big highlight of
your life. I mean, this is it. I mean I
told my wife this is it, and we're moving back
to Texas tonight. You've hit the Apex after actor to

(18:53):
haul in your driveway right now. You newly and Walmack
from before in Nashville High School high school. UM, when
I moved to Jacksonville, Texas, where I went to high school,
she lived about a quarter of the miles down the
street from me, and my dad was the superintendent of
the new superintendent of the school district. And Um, either
her mom or dad worked for the school and my

(19:15):
dad he came in. He got a forty five and
I still have it. He said, Hey, this is this
is a girl that that lives here and she likes
contributed to and and her. He went, your name is
Leon Womack, which is how we pronounced it and U
and it was a forty five of her singing a
Patsy Cline song and uh, he said, oh't know, you
got thought it anyway. I remember going down Lion's house

(19:36):
and playing Judd songs and her singing. And so I
was sixteen, and uh, I saw her today. As a
matter of fact, you know, thirty something years later, I
saw he today. So I ended up playing on the
road with her son. Once she got her record deal.
I was a road manager for a while and uh,
your road manager, and then played guitar something for her. Yeah. First,
like my first gig with her was right when she

(19:56):
got started in like ninety seven. I went out as
her road manager, and um, that was another great just
crazy experience where I got to learn about how the
road works. And and you know, we're playing these huge
tours and playing these George Straight Stadium, sold out all
day events and then playing these little clubs where you gotta,
you know, go get paid in cash and and hope
you make it back to the bus kind of stuff.

(20:17):
So it's just really great educational And then I went
back and played on the road with her for a
few years. Like when There's More where that came from
came out, which is probably oh five ish, Were you
with her when I hope you dance it? Um? No,
Actually that was there in the gap where I wasn't
with her, but it was so bad. Yeah, I mean,

(20:38):
there's no question that. But but the the funny side
note is going back to the Suns. I told you
about the Suns of the Desert. They're the ones singing
background on that song. They're the ones who sing the
you know, time is a wheel and cuts them. So
the band that I started in college, so you influence
that whole song, is what you're saying. Every part of
that song was influence, I feel. So the band I

(21:00):
started in college and left ended up singing background on
the hugest hit of my high school friends. Pretty cool.
Crazy what happened to that band? They? You know, as
as the Wheels of Nashville Turn, I guess, I guess
it just didn't work out. Did ever get a hit? Ever?
We get a song. I think they had you a
couple of marginal you know, semi hits, nothing nothing big

(21:23):
broke all the way through for them, and they were great.
You know. I think they were actually a little ahead
of their time if you asked me, so you did
the deal with Leanne, you wrapped up your second stand
with her, and then what I used the songwriter there
By that time I was song writting. After I went
on a road with her the first time, I ended
up getting back in the label game. Um, there was

(21:44):
a Virgin Records for a hot minute here in town
that Scott Hendricks open, and I wouldn't worked for them.
I don't think we were open two years. And then
I went and worked for um, Mike Dungan at Capital,
who I know you recently did a Bobby cast with
and at Capital and then they had a massive, you know, layoff,

(22:07):
and I was one of those people. So I always
and and and at that point I had already been
deciding and thinking, like, I think I'm in the wrong
side of business. I don't think I'm supposed to be
doing the label stuff. I think I want to be writing.
I've been writing at home and uh, just for fun
and had fallen into a couple of cuts, and like
I said in retrospect, now I know how unusual that

(22:27):
is um and I just didn't see all the signs.
And then by that, by the early two thousand's, I'd
already had a pretty sneaking suspicion that I was I
should be writing songs. So that's when I kind of
when I got finally laid off from Capital, that's when
I said, all right, this is my chance. I think
I had a little bit of severan spay or something,
had a brand new baby at home, and uh, I

(22:49):
was like it's now or ever and thank goodness at work,
so you know, it was it was really just like
I may have to go back to Texas if this
doesn't work, because the label side doesn't want me to
not working working out for me. What was the first
one that you wrote? They kind of got a little

(23:11):
play and you're like, oh, maybe I can do this,
Like I got a little bit of radio cut, well
not radio play, the first cut that made me think
maybe this won't be as bad as hard as I think.
I got one on the My Town record for Montgomery Genter,
but it was just now I'm cut. But if you
want to bring Dirk Spentley into this. I mean, that's
what just absolutely saved me. Derk's I had met because

(23:32):
he was a newly signed artist on Capitol and so
he hadn't come out yet. And I had met him
not only at the label, but my brother was writing
songs with him is and and my brother ended up
being a producer for like the first if I think,
four records. But so Dirk Snod just like guys, kind
of became buddies and went to lunch a few times,
and then all of a sudden he got a record deal,

(23:54):
and and I was I think I was still working
at Capitol, and we I said, you know, I don't
know if you know, man, but I'm writing songs too.
Oh really really a label? Gay it write songs or whatever?
And we wrote one day, we wrote one song. He
ended up cutting it, which is asking any songwriter, they'll

(24:15):
be like, I gotta write thirty songs to get one. Anyway,
we wrote one day, we wrote one song. He caught
it and then it was a single and it was
a hit, and it literally saved saved me and my family,
you know, and it gave me I didn't have a
publishing deal. I could not get a publishing deal in town,
and so, um, what was the song? It's called how
am I doing? And uh I even wrote it under

(24:37):
a pseudonym because I was still at the label. I
wrote it under a name called writer X. And it
really piste off a lot of people in town because
they just, uh, piste off man, I'll be the right word.
It created a lot of interest and it peaked a
lot of people's curiosity of like, we all try so
hard to get our names from songs and then there's
somebody who's using an assume name and who is it

(24:57):
and all this stuff. So it was fun. It was
a talking point for Dirks and it wasn't that well
kept in the secret. But like Red Solo Cup, you know,
fifteen seventeen years later, as somebody still called me writer
X every week, they just thought it was funny that
somebody did that. So this song you wrote this on
where did they? Where did they hit? You remember? Got
number four? Really yeah? And it was the first song

(25:19):
you wrote like with dirts with dirt pers and uh yeah,
So does that open up other doors with Dirks? Specifically,
like if you have a hit with Dirk's top five song,
does he go, hey, we should get back together right
some more? Well with him, it did because we were
we were and our friends, you know, we have an
actual real relationship and um, so yeah we then then
I mean he went out and killed the road, like

(25:40):
he was gone two or fifty days a year. But
you know it started writing regularly, oh and making me right.
And it wasn't like we were writing every week, but
you know, I would try to come up with ideas
for him, and when he could squeeze a day in
with me, we would write and and you know, he's
he's been the biggest factor of my career, you know,
to this to this date, and we're still great friends.

(26:03):
And I've he's cut you know, a bunch of songs
of mine and for other artists. A lot of times
it's you know a lot of these other songs you played.
I don't meet the artists until the number one party,
like you know, it just got played for them and
they liked it, and then they cut it and you
just had the right song at the right time. So
the relationship really wasn't there. And sometimes you get one
with him and sometimes you don't see him again. So

(26:23):
it's kind of weird. What was the one where you're like, oh,
I can't believe that artist has decided to cut my song, Like,
of all the artists, that's really weird that they they're
the one who liked that song. Yeah, well besides Tobey
Keith cutting, anybody cutting red solo cup um? Uh? Josh
Turner cutting? Uh? Why don't we just dance? I didn't
know him, and I thought it was a great song.
I didn't. I do remember thinking, I said, I think

(26:44):
this would be a really big song of somebody, and
he was the perfect artist to do it, and and
but I didn't realize until I heard him singing it.
I was like, dude, that say, it's like you didn't know. No,
now here's the question. After you Josh Turner or Luke
or even like Eastern Corbin, after you have a hit
with these artists, then do you like exchange cellphone numbers

(27:05):
and can text them any time? Or is it just
kind of like hello goodbye? Um? It can be a
little both. It depends on my experience has been. It
depends on where they are in their career. If it's
Luke and he's already Luke Brian and and you know,
he's just got people coming out of the woodwork trying
to write with him or get him songs, and and uh,
it's only natural that these people are gonna have a

(27:27):
little bit of a more closed circle. It's not like, well,
he heard a song you wrote, so now you're you know, hunting, fishing,
loving every day with him or something. So, um, it's
usually more like that. If you're coming around later in
life and they're just hearing a song, you're you know,
you may have a little bit more of an open
door to them. But I've never had another Luke Bryant cut,
you know, I've never had a j Sharner cut. Do

(27:47):
you have Josh on her cellphone number? I think I do.
Do you have Luke Bryan's No, I text them today?
You want to just saying it on the air, and
already did. Yeah, can you imagine that? Pistic? I have
a Luke on my phone three different times I text
the two people that aren't Luke anymore because I have
it as Luke Luke Bran New and Luke bran New
Real And so I stop taking your number. You're not famous.

(28:08):
Chase you around the most famous guy in our format? Um,
how about Gary Allen. Do you have a number? I
have Gary Allen's number. I've written with him a couple
of times since Watching Airplanes. Yeah, here's the Watching Airplanes,
which peaked at number two, the most frustrating. It actually
got number one on one chart. Yeah, that's the charted them.
I thought that all chart. I call it another do
you say my first number one? Of course it was

(28:29):
number one. I would contest that I would raise if
I was in the crowd. But excuse me, sir, songwriters,
like if you sniffed it if it was number if
it was number one for you know half of course
on Saturday night the canail. That's fair. Now here's what
I say. I have a kid's song that went number
one on like three different charts. There's not really a
kid's official chart though. Then there's like it was number

(28:50):
one iTunes for two weeks. It was number one on
the Disney Airplay number one, right, so I guess that counts.
I can't make funny any chart. It's my mom's favorite.
It's my mom's number one number one. This was a
jam though this a jam, still a jam. Yeah, they
still play the crap out of the song. Um, it's
so it's it's that's one of my favorite songs I've

(29:11):
ever had out. Did you write that with him? No?
I wrote it with Jonathan Singleton and so, but then
you when you wrote with him afterwards, you and Gary
wrote another songs, not until it's probably six or seven
years after that. Really, Yeah, well that's kind of while
you become friends way later when you're not even connected. Yeah,
you know, it's just it. I don't know, I'm you know,

(29:31):
some of these some of these writers are like their
best buddies with everybody, and they're they're they're hitting them up.
And then I don't know if I'm just not that
kind of person or if I don't know how to
do it. I'm definitely not very good at it. I
don't I don't really get in always. I'd like to think, man,
if if they like my song, they like my song,
and that ought to be good enough. But I'm not

(29:52):
real good at working it. But but yeah, you do,
you'll run into them, and like I said, there may
be an open door, like, hey, Gary, you should listen
a song this guy wrote watching you know. Maybe that's
as far as it goes. I don't know, Billy Currington,
you have his number. I don't think I'm gonna say
no to that one. Yeah, you're feeling at the way
I'm I'm feeling a note because I know Billy a
little bit and I like Billy, but I don't have

(30:14):
Billy's number. And once Billy comes up and he brought
to do a piece paper and he goes, writes this
thing down, it's right, and then he folds it up.
He takes my hand and he shoves it in my
hand and then shuts my hand. It goes it's for you,
And I'm like, what what is this? Is a Billy art?
Is it a Billy original? And I opened it up
and it wasn't even his cell phone number. It was
his email address. He put his email down and was like,

(30:36):
hit me up, we'll go surfing, whan I never served
in my life. And too, he didn't write a cell
phone number down, which was weird. So I felt like
he didn't give a cell phone number out. Maybe he
doesn't have a phone dot com address. I do think
it was kind of an old school address though it
was like it was like a Yahoo. Maybe that was
the artist version of the girl in the bar that
doesn't want to give you a real maybe, But I
didn't ask for it. I didn't ask for anything. Yeah,

(30:57):
he volunteered it. You wrote, don't here you go, here's
Billy Carrington. Dun't this? Do you count? This is the
number one? That was the number one? He did too?
What chart you looking at? Man? I count it as
a number one? Okay? Then number one it is, because
at that time there were two charts. There's Billboard and
air check. If either one of them got number one,

(31:19):
we were throwing part I'll tell you this. I went
to a number one party for that song, and I
went to number one party for watching airplanes. So if
that don't mean number one, I don't know what I
mean number ones? Do you have nine? Nine? Okay that
I know of? Oh no, that's kids. Sorry Eastern Corman.
Loving you was fun? Oh it is, isn't it fun?
Is this the number one? That's a four? Don't you
sound like a four? Apparently there's like some station that

(31:42):
refuses to play him, so he can never have a
number one. I'm probably did divulging thing. No, but you
know that's a thing where some people just won't play
certain people that they really pissed him off. That might
have happened with him, which is detriment. There's a few
like big Time. Yeah, there's a few world and now
it's I've called a few of them out publicly and
they stopped doing that a little bit good. Where I've
been like, hey, and what will happen is you go,

(32:04):
I'm just gonna say, hey, John Smith, not a person
in Houston is a city, but not one I'm referring to.
I hear that you're not playing certain artists on the air.
Let's not make that a thing. And usually if they
know somebody knows and we'll call them out, they'll stop
doing Wow the Bobby Bone shame play. I like it. Well,
you just shouldn't penalize art if you don't love the artist,

(32:27):
and your job is to share, like that's that's your job.
It's some one that's researching. Don't let your personal beliefs
hold back what you think would be best for your station.
But yeah, I've heard that, not about Easton, but about
a couple of people. I'm pretty sure it's the case
with him or it was Chris Stabled and Parachute. Yes
you wrote that with Chris, do you? Because she's write
regular right now? We did, We wrote very regularly for

(32:48):
um for a few years, for several years, like every
you know, one of those usually if you have like
what we call a standing appointment, it will be every
two weeks or every month. You know, you'll where every
other Wednesday or where the first tuesdays every month. You know,
when you go look at your calendar that way, you
know you've got you've got the appointments coming up. So
you can kind of get in a groove with somebody

(33:08):
if you if you enjoy writing with them, or if
you do well with them, and you know, if you
don't finish the song that day, all right, we'll get
it next time. Or so christ did write a lot
regularly for for years. I was looking at the hoodie
track list because I love Darius, has been prints with
Darius since I was seventeen. My first ever radio and
you met him. I listened to your book. Yeah, oh thanks, Yeah,

(33:29):
that's my dude. Right, So, like we through format changes
and you know, we've kind of bounced around, and um,
so I'm a huge hoodie fan. And I was looking
at the songwriter listening and I see you and Chris
Stapleton wrote one of the Hoodie songs. I think maybe
the only one or maybe two that weren't written by
hooting the Blowfish. I saw the track listening. I think
it is the only one that that that Hoodie or

(33:52):
a Blowfish was not on. And I don't have the
clip because it's not out yet. But how does that?
First of all, how long go to during christ Depton? Right?
That song? That song is called hold On and it's
probably four years old? Yeah, And how does this song
last for four years and then get to somebody? Well,
if you want know the specific story about that song. Um,

(34:12):
I was meeting with um Brian Wright, who is the
head of A and R at Universal Records, and they're
the people who are in charge of signing new artists
and kind of overseeing recording projects. I was meeting with
him probably four months ago about a completely unrelated thing,
and at the end of the conversation, he goes, man,

(34:33):
do you have anything for who you need to blowfish?
He said, I just got just we're having a hard time.
Just find it just the perfect thing for them. They're
writing some good stuff, but we're just looking for something.
And I said, I actually have something I think we
perform and I played it for him right there. He
already knew the song because he works with Stapleton, and
you know, he just kind of lit up. He goes,
that's it. He said, that's the best one I've heard.

(34:54):
That's it, and then they ended up cutting it. So
I was just if he hadn't brought that up to
me that thought, you wouldn't be missing that song right now.
That's how weird the business, and you know how weird
this business city. It's a little thing like that can
make or break, and a song can be recorded not recorded.
It was literally in passing at the end of a meeting,
he said, I'm looking for something, and I just happen
to think of that one song. So so if anybody

(35:14):
at any time goes, hey, I need that song for
Slean Dion and you really don't have one, but you
have a bunch of songs, like of course, here's you
go and just pick one of them up play it.
I would only do that if I really didn't think
I have I wouldn't have said that to Brian if
I didn't honestly believe I had a song that they
would do very well, because that's now you're talking about
your credibility, right And if you and if you have
that one shot with somebody and you play them a

(35:37):
piece of crowd, then then they may not ask again.
So that specific song you're talking about, who Neian Bluefish
has always been one of my most favorite uncut songs.
So I have no I have no problem selling the
song if I really really believe it. And there's not
that many I really really believe in, but that's one
for sure. So I don't know. If I if I
probably wouldn't have a slingdon songs be honest and yeah

(35:58):
that we'll go back to drinking here for a second.
Uh did you is that a U and stable toon track? Correct?
Because stables and singing right? And so they didn't invite
me to come in that day. I don't know. Maybe
they gave me the wrong studio. You probably displaced. I
get a lot of invites that don't actually get to
me too, like, oh, we meant that, I'm gonna go
with that one of that, I want to go with that.

(36:19):
What's what's the story in this song? Um? This is
another one where UM I was sitting on my back
porch smoking a cigar, playing my guitar, and um, I
remember that that the chorus came to me um or,
as writers like to say, God whispered it in my ear? Bobby,
do you like that? Is that a little more poetic?

(36:39):
You're not good nut going there? Okay, I think people
if you really feel that way. Um, I don't feel
like God's ever whispered a song in my I don't
feel like he has a mine. I don't know why,
but that that course came to me, um and in
its form, which is the four lines, you know, I'm
gonna sit right here on the ed this beer and
watch the sunset disappeared? Do you like to run pier

(37:00):
with beer and drink a beer? And so, I don't
know why it happened. It was with that guitar. There's
a picture in here I'm pointing to and um, I
put it on my phone. I was like, I kind
of like the sound of that. And then Chris and
I were getting together, and you know, like all writing appointments,
you kind of just start staring at each other and like,
you got anything. I don't know any anything, And I said, man,

(37:20):
I got this little thing. I only know it did,
and I'm played him the chorus and he remember he
laughed because how long I waited before I went Andrea
keo beer. He just thought it was funny. That's really long. Pause.
I said, I know, I know it's long, but it works,
you know. He said, it did work. And Uh, that song,
you know, has been another crazy learning experience for me because, um,

(37:44):
that song means a whole lot to a whole lot
of people. I will play a show and I'll play
that song, and invariably somebody will come up and say,
oh my gosh, that we played that at my grandfather's funeral,
or that was my's Usually somebody they've lost, you know,
which is is is powerful thing to hear as a
as a writer, and and to me, the weird story is,

(38:05):
you know, we had the chorus which if you listen
to the chorus, there's no context to it. It doesn't
say why this person is doing what they're doing. It's
just four lines, right. And so it was like Chris
and I knew the answer to the problem, to the
math question. Then we had to go figure out what
the actual problem was, and we tried a lot of
different ways to get what we thought it at all.
Maybe you just quit his job and it's kind of
a fun I'm gonna sit out here and we tried

(38:26):
and it never felt right, never felt right, never felt right,
And we tried a lot. I remember, we tried a
lot of different ways. And then I don't know which
one of us in the room it man, what if
the what if that person used to go do this
with somebody they just lost And then it just everything clicked,
just because we kept trying and kept trying, and the
song was there. And uh, did anyone else put that

(38:47):
song on hold before Luke got it? No? Um, it
was out for a while before before before we cut it.
I mean it was probably in town for six months
or a year. And then Jeff Stevens, his producer, heard
it and said, I think Luke would love that song.
And again it's another case where the song is just
a song, but then you match it with Luke and
Luke story and now it's the thing. And so again,

(39:10):
as a writer, you don't control that. It's just you're
just the You're just a conduit, you know, and and
the universe has different plans. You know, when you and
Chris the writing and you guys are gonna sing the
demo afterwards, you always make Chris sing, you know, he
always wants to be a sing because he likes to
steal his lips from me. I don't know a lot
of people don't know that. Um uh, not always, honestly,

(39:33):
not always. I've got work tapes where we've written and
I'm actually singing ill advisedly, I'm singing the the in
the phone, but but usually it's him yeah, and he's
in you know the do you want you want more? Inside?
And stuff like the hold On song that Hoodian a
Bluefish cut, that is. I had a drum loop going

(39:54):
in the room and I just recorded Chris singing it
on my iPhone and that's what we pitched. I mean,
we never did anything else. It was just Chris singing
in the room over a drum loop, over a drum
loop with us playing guitars, just like when you and
I wrote a song. We'll all right, let's put this
down so we'll remember how it went. And uh, we
never demoed it. We never did anything special. It's low,

(40:15):
very just the iPhone, just an iPhone work tape. Is
it on your phone? Probably? Let's let's hear a piece
of it, because you want to hear hold On? Yeah?
Just well yeah, let's let's tell any of them. Let
me see if I can pull that up, I bet
I have. Is your whole phone full of yes of it? All? Right?
This is this is I mean I can do we

(40:37):
can right, yeah, of course absolutely. Okay, Let's see if
I can pull it up. I'm trying. Which song is this?
This is hold on the one? Who do you got? Yeah?
Drum loop? That's my big fat drum loop. Can you
hear that? Yeah? And you're gonna hear the velvet cones

(41:02):
of ri state of tones in the second Claude Sick
Cloud seems like going wrong. It is this what you

(41:26):
play to your buddy? Wow? Okay you know when Darius
can sing that? Yeah? Man, I mean you gotta have
And what is that you with the fellows? Sorry? Is
this the wrong time for that? It's interesting that you
have that, because again, who can who can sing that

(41:49):
with that power? Unless it's somebody who can sing that,
I don't know. I just write them, man, I try
to write them. Yeah, yeah, but Darius can do it
like Hillary Lindsay will cut songs and the artist almost
can't sing what she writes. Carry the woods about one
of the few. Otherwise, I mean stay and if again
going real into the weeds, Stapleton had that effect on

(42:10):
people when he was primarily known as just a writer
in town. I mean, he would you know, sing his
own demos and it would intimidate the artist if the
song to beIN pitched too and they and they would
fall in love with the song and then they would
they'd go in to cut it and they'd come out going,
it's just not the same, right, Like, it's not as
good as a person who is saying and so what
they were they were falling in love with Chris, you know,

(42:31):
they were falling in love with that unbelievable vocal and
and you know it's that's very He's a perfect example that.
And so now a lot of times with with demo singers,
you know, the people who are actually singing the song
that we pitched to the artist, you don't want them
too good. And even if they're capable of like yeah,
so now I'm getting a lot of work lately. Um,

(42:52):
it's it's shocking. So uh no, so you eat and
even if they are a capable vocalist of like blowing
your mind, you will tell them just tone it down.
You want it, you want it pitched as generic that
you want to you want the song to be the star,
not the singer, you know, and they just have a vibe.
But it doesn't even have a vibe. It's just a vibe.
But no tricks, no crazy trills, because if that artist

(43:14):
doesn't like those things or it's not careful of those things,
they're gonna be thinking about it and they're going, well,
I can't do what they're doing. You want it, you
want the melody presented in a you know, in a
fairly generic way. It's it's, it's And it took me
a while to learn that too. I think Caitlin Sumiths
had that effect on people too. Blow away the track
and people were like, I don't know I can do that,

(43:35):
and it has nothing to do with the song even
and even you know, like some people's voice of mind,
probably it's just don't start with the camera. There's a
camera looking at you, but it's just part of the whole.
It's almost too twanging, you know. It's got a country
East Texas thing to it, and some people don't want
to listen to that. And so even though I'm singing
the exact same melody that's somebody else is singing. You know,

(43:57):
I know I should not sing this song, we gotta
get somebody else. It has nothing with the song. None
of the lyrics are different. No, the music is different.
It's just who who's communicating it, and it makes a big,
big deal. That's an interesting concept, and a lot of
people will bring their phones and play like work tapes
like that, and it's, um, it's pretty cool to hear that,
because rarely anymore are the work tapes just blowing things

(44:19):
out of the water, because again they're like, whoa if
if it's too too vocal, people were here and to
go why I can't do How would I cut that
song if I don't have that skill set as the
person who's singing the demo. I mean, there's lots of
little tricks, like you know, if you're gonna be pitching
a certain songs with a certain artist, you may try
to cut it in their key, you know. So you
imagine him driving around in their truck listening to demos

(44:41):
and I want this, but I want them to be
able to sing along, you know. So if it's a McGraw,
you may go lists put it in a McGraw key,
you know, and stuff like that. I mean, there's you know,
you try any little advantage you can get to make
your because they're listening to hundreds of songs. Possibly, So, yeah,
do you have what else you having your phone? That's
another one. I got watch of stuff on my phone.
Do you have a lot of stuff that you and
I've written? Do you want to I might have like

(45:04):
the drink a beer? Yes, if you can find that one,
let me see, let me see you know, and do
you archive any of those or if you just lose
your phone, I'm just searching for it and they don't
come in the cloud, You're they're just gone. What about
the gym beavers? Muse them after you die. Yeah, well
there's already a vibrant one right now in East Texas.

(45:26):
Um Um, this is this is stable thing. Drink of beer? Right?
Is it okay for me? We play him? Chris has
played on our show? Okay, I say, you know him
being a recording artist. I don't know why. God, Yes,
they were routed. Do you guys put the phone down

(45:58):
in the middle of you and just get over the
top of the phone to play up. Yeah, well you'll
know you're normally sliding about three quarters of the way
closest to the singer. There's the best way. I'm gonna
come in here and take the course for about That's
the day we wrote It's cool. Is that cool? Yeah,

(46:18):
that's cool. I didn't had that on there when Chris
because we would have Chris in the studio before he hit,
because he was just a songwriter that I thought was
awesome and I was getting a lot of trouble for
bringing random songwriters perform um. And luckily Chris hit. It
was not luckily for him for me because once he hit,
everybody left me alone. That kind of validated your opinion,
crushed it. Just they were like front in front, they

(46:41):
were like we're gonna stop you, just do you because
I you know, I had had some success of bringing
a couple of artists, but I was getting heat from people,
um like my high ups that did no country music
go and you you shouldn't bring on And I was
still pretty new, and the idea was like he's an
unknown and yeah, completely unknown. But I was like, yeah,
he was doing Josh Turner, um your main in and

(47:01):
he did. He come in and he played drinking beer
and he played and they were like, you know, I
know he's written these songs, but I just don't think
that you should have one, and I'm like, well, first,
it's my show, Like you didn't bring me over here
to do what you want to do, and no disrespect,
but let me. And when he hit, I was still
thinking it was just because then and I wasn't. I
was just following what I thought was good. Go with

(47:21):
the genius thing. It's always better. I was number one
on the genius chart. Yeah, it was amazing. Case. I've
run with that every sence I've been number one, every
sense you knows it's is it whenever songwriters come into
our room together and you both have had some success
in the past, because I'll compare it to you and
I where I haven't had success as a real life songwriter,
but I've written a bunch of stuff, either books or
some dopey songs, and you go for me, you know,

(47:43):
working with you, I go, I don't know if I
want to pitch this idea, but I haven't poison ivying
your genitals. And I'm like, I don't even know really
know this guy already. Yeah, sorry, And it's like that
one specifically, I was like, I got this idea and
it's about you're with a girl, and it's like, hey,
don't run Awa, it just got it's just poison ivy
And here you are would drink a beer and parachute

(48:05):
and and I can, but I don't know that right.
But I guess my question is is there ever that
awkward feeling from you when you have this idea? And
maybe it's not you know, as dopey as as that one,
because now we have a rhythm and we have ideas
it or to dope and we're like, maybe not that one.
There's the comfortability after about the third rite? Do you
ever go? Man, I don't want to go, and you

(48:27):
have to go to maybe the warm Brothers are Chris
Stables and be like, I have this idea that you know,
a sausage factory. Yeah, and then the sadness after it closes. Yeah,
it is sad. If you love sausage, it's really sad
and it's the only one around. So um yeah. I
mean I think you learned really quickly for doing this
every day. If you're not willing to be vulnerable then

(48:48):
and and to look, you know, we all you've heard it.
We say, dare to suck and you'll usually you'll prefer
I'm all right, I'm gonna dare to suck and then
you'll you're just letting them know you're about to say
the stupidest thing. And usually it's half baked. You don't
even know what it means, but you think there's something
in there. And then sometimes somebody's like, oh, what if
you bump, and they'll twist it to be like, that's
exactly why I had to say it out loud, and

(49:08):
it will make perfect sense. So but with with you,
and I like trying to write like funny songs and stuff.
I knew, I knew I had to come in here
and be willing to look stupid. I didn't know you
very well. I really didn't know you at all. I
didn't know your sense of humor, your personality. But you know,
we found each other and and and now, like you said,
we're comfortable and I can play you something. You can go, yeah,

(49:29):
they doesn't really work, and I don't. That's fine with me.
It's like, oh, because I know other things will work.
You know it's funny too. Actually I trust your instincts,
you know, because I very much trust your instincts. So
whenever we were sitting in a hotel room and maybe Amarillo,
and it was like four and just plus were wet,
we were well, I was laying down in the bed,
you were sitting and we were and I'm not sure

(49:56):
who actually, maybe it was me. I hate to say
it was me. If it wasn't, maybe it was me.
Who goes we should do a song about a Fannie pack.
I'm not sure was it you? Was it? But I
turned into a no, no, it doesn't matter to me either.
But it was like, why don't we do it as
a rap song? Because that's where it came in with me,
because I told my wife about your show? Is that
what it was? He's got this funny song where he
puts these georgs on stage, and she said, did you

(50:19):
have a Fannie pack? I said, nobody should, because that
would be like the next gag, you know, And then
I just that literally just happened. Maybe that morning I
was tell my wife about watching the Raging Idiots. Maybe
I shouldn't know who has ideas, because then I was like,
I don't know who had this idea. Yeah it doesn't matter,
but it does not matter to songwriters when you're some
people get butt hurt over it. Yeah, okay, it shouldn't
um because I mean the way I look at it

(50:42):
is it's it's if you brought the idea and even
if you wrote ninety percent of the song that I
look at it like that song would not have existed
if you had not given birth to it the way
it was given birth to. You know, Now, unless you've
got to fully realized song, you just kind of come
in and too an R this or somebody and being like, hey,
maybe we could change the third line. You know, that's

(51:04):
a different thing, and that always feels very schevy to me.
But um, and I also believe if you're serious about
doing this for a living, it's gonna work itself out.
There's gonna be other times where you're the dummy in
the room and you just caught it like your break
and somebody was on fire, you know. And and that's
just part of the process. If if you if you
run around worry about credit or who did the line,

(51:25):
whose whose idea was this? Who came up with that,
you'll drive yourself nights man and and people humans want
to do that, but you gotta fight that, I think
if you want to be healthy. Well, so I had
this idea by a fanny pack, right, really interesting because
I've already written it. So but I remember where it
came from. You where and probably you know what? It
probably came from my wife? See, so should I? Should

(51:47):
I be sitting there taking credit for her? She's the
one who said that she should get the writing credit.
You see it, not writing credit, but credit. But but
let's back it up if you want. If I hadn't
told her about George, she wouldn't have said Fanny Pack.
So so I get the credit, So back to me.
But honestly, you can follow that thread all the way.
It's like, well, then where do you stop? So this song,

(52:07):
Fannie Pack? You pitched the idea and I was like, great,
I do remember. Going ahead, let's make it like a
rap song. And I don't know if you've ever written
a rap song before? Have you? Of course? Which one?
You can't tell by looking at me? Nothing? Nothing you've heard? Um?
And it turned into this, did this ever work for? You?
Want to? Texted you? I got the second one worked,
work worked, and I'll play a little bit of it.

(52:27):
It turned out like a funk white boy. It's great
to do, but my pants didn't have enough pocket root,
I got my keys, my bones potastic to good thing.
I got a pop like a kangaro if you need
to band or got a lifestyle. I remember Brandon Rea,

(52:50):
if you need an EPI pen to bring your granny back?
And I thought that's the funniest line. It's really funny.
You know that means granny was gone and you're needed
an EPI pen. And so you know, and and we're like,
that would have happened if if we for not written
exactly where we wrote it. Agree, you know it's just
and so you've got to let the process. To me,

(53:11):
you're doing it right if you just if you say
the song is a star, the song is a star,
and all that matters is the song. If you when
you walk in that room, that's what happened, checker. You
go at the door and it's all about the song,
and you walk out and you don't smack talk or
anything about Well I did. And you know that's not
in service of the song. You know that's my theory. Well,

(53:32):
then for now I want to talk about that song.
I'm gonna say, Well, so I had I wrote a
song called George, and somebody got it came back all
the way around. So then I wrote Fannie Pack whatever.
But this is your your domain. This this stuff is
your domain. Yeah, I'm totally playing um, but I think
I think we're gonna cut because you're coming on the
road this weekend and you're actually gonna play and we're

(53:53):
gonna make the live record. So very excited. There's two
shows in Little Rock, right, so no pressure. Yeah, I
know your home. There's your home. There's only one show
on the rock, so we gotta make it work or
it doesn't count. All right, I'll do my best. We
got got all the songs charted out, I really do.
Is it weird? Is it cool? Maybe? Both? That when
we write a song and I take it and I

(54:14):
record and I played immediately and we record it and
I send you the video. I mean, is is that
different than what it's I've told you? It's the most refreshing,
crazy thing for everybody listening. Like Bobby that literally the
day of the show might write a song and he
fairlessly will get up there and do it that night,
and I'm like, how are you even going to know
for the words? But he'll do it And sometimes I don't,

(54:37):
But it doesn't matter. But immediate and immediate feedback and
the way I way I work and I say oh,
we should have done this, we can do this. It
just tweaks tweaks, and I'll send them and go, okay,
look at this. What do you think didn't work? What
did work? Question? We've been changing songs we wrote four
weeks ago. I mean, if Stein felt at his level

(54:57):
can grind on timing and what I mean, then I
wish songwriter to do it more. They don't. I I
like to rewrite songs. I'm always like songs not done
until it's cut. And you know, sometimes I'll completely rewrite
a song and then realize the first way with the
right way, and I'll spend I just did that recently
with a song I wrote with my brother. I said, hey, man,
I think we missed it would be this, and then

(55:18):
I played it for him. He was like, yeah, I
like the other one better. I said, I think I
do too now, but I've spent hours, you know. But
the immediate feedback of you playing a song live and
knowing when people laugh, and me moving from country songwriter
to you know, raging idiot writer um has been such
a refreshing, uh mind mind thing for me because the

(55:40):
lyrics are so important. You can't cram too many and
because your audience has to hear every single word. It's
like a joke. Like a joke if you don't have
set up and the punch line doesn't matter. And of
course you know vocally you stapled it. I mean, I
can't even tell the difference. Why I don't cut songs,
can't cut I get it. It's been so nice just
to know guy he can do anything with this song.
So uh no, it's been a dude, this is no bs.

(56:03):
It's been the most fun I've had in such a
long time. You can you can ask my wife. She's like,
you're a new man. I was like, I know, it's
been I was kind of born to end up probably
getting to help somebody like you. So it's been great. Well,
let me ask you a few questions here. They have
nothing to do with your your career. You have any Grammys? No,
I just want to grandmother say Granny's no grammy. I

(56:28):
had two grannies. Do you have any Academy awards? My
favorite thing he got my favorite thing to do the
jim is. But if Timocraws song comes on the radio,
Eddie and I do it every time, and then if
as long as not the one he wrote, We're like, hey,
do you write this one for the one? You write
this one? We know he didn't knowingly. No, No, Grammy,
I don't don't really have any any awards, No, except
for all your number ones, your nine, number one. Yeah,

(56:50):
except for I've never won like a CMA or a
CM like one. What's the most number ones you've had
in a year. Have you had two in a year before?
I've had two in a year. I think I almost
had three in a year one time, but it may
have been thirteen months or somebody who's counting? Yeah, not you?
Whose the year? Was it a certain year charts? You're
the Aztec calendar? Maybe you got three in a year.
Why not use that calendar? I'd love to use the Okay,

(57:13):
let me ask you a few of these. What's the
last movie you saw in theaters? Uh? My wife and
I went once once upon a time in Hollywood. I
haven't seen it. Mike's all you like it might have
a good movie. I loved it. I like anything Tarantino,
and I thought it was great. I like Brett Pitt,
and I thought it was good. What's the last concert
you buy tickets for? Oh my gosh, dude, I honestly

(57:39):
cannot think of one. I'm being in the business, I
can't think when I bought tickets for a concert. I
think I might have paid, paid for, but not attended
tickets for one direction for my daughter. So she went,
she went, Do your kids think it's cool that you've
written songs? Um? They might have at some point, but
they don't. It doesn't seem to register with them as
anything weird. Are they musical? Um? They both like music

(58:03):
and they both can sing. Neither whet him really play anything. Um,
but they both My son's fifteen and he loves like
classic rock and Tom Petty and my daughter loves eighties
George Straight. She's been wearing me out and listened to
like early George Straight on the way to school the
last few weeks. Um. So they have I think a
lot of kids of their generation and very eclectic tastes,

(58:24):
you know, and so. But but their musical in a
sense that they like music and they can sing. So
I give you one more instead of a last meal,
you're offered a last song to sing before you die
that I wrote to listen to before you have singing,
because you're probably dying to listen to before you die,
you have to write. It can be any song in
the world before I die, like I know him like,
it's like, as soon as the songs over, you're dead.
So it's the last songs to you know what. It's

(58:46):
interesting you say, a friend of mine named Troy Tomlinson
who has been my publisher for a long time. He's
a he's a big wig here in town. Turn me
onto the song by the a Vip Brothers called No
Hard Feelings. Have you ever heard that song? And just
a few ago he said, you gotta listen to a
song and it made me. It literally made me cried.
I hardly cried anything. I mean I cried no one.
I had to come over here. Um, I've tried no one.

(59:08):
I'm gonna quote with you this weekend. So that's yeah, well,
um yeah, and he's crying right now, down the tears.
Let me end on this question here, Um, you've written
with Taylor Swift? Which version of Taylor slif? I wrote

(59:30):
with the fourteen year old version. So what's it like
to write a song with fourteen year old Taylor Swift? Well,
she was not you know, quote unquote Taylor Swift yet
at that point obviously, So this is before she put
out her first record. Um. She was pretty new to
town and was making the rounds around town looking for

(59:50):
co writes. UM. And I'm not sure who set us up, um,
but she couldn't write until three thirty because she had school.
You and she and her mother would sit on the
other side of the door, you know appropriately so and um,
I I learned a great lesson if I told you
this story before continue okay, UM, I learned a great

(01:00:13):
lesson from her because you know, at that time, I was,
I guess in my thirties or something, and thought I
was this real songwriter or something. And I remember like,
what am I doing the room with a fourteen year
old girl? You know what, what what in the world
can we have in common? And and uh, this is
it still sounds crazy, right that that that a teenage
girl became what she is and what she was. I mean,

(01:00:35):
it's unbelievable. She's singular, you know. And so I remember
having a bad attitude about the right like what am
I doing? Why am I doing this? And then getting
in the room with her, and she's very pleasant, but
she knew exactly what she wanted to say. She was,
you know, in a good way, pushing me around the room,
like I'll go, well, um, an experienced writer like myself

(01:00:58):
might say this, and she's like, no, no, it's not
that's not how I would say, you know. And so
what I learned from her is that from an artist perspective,
she knew exactly who she was, she knew exactly what
she wanted to say, she knew exactly where she was going.
And to me, that is like, now, that's the number
one thing I look for somebody. It's not even what
their voice sound, flex, not what they look like. It's
like if they have a vision and a focus of

(01:01:20):
who they are, that that blows everything else away. Because
then there's lots of great singers and great writers, and
you know, turn on American Idol, you know you're on there.
I mean, there's just great talent everywhere. But but the
artists and the ones that connect, you know, no know
why they're going to connect, and they connect with people.
You know. And the song that you guys wrote, I

(01:01:41):
don't remember the title. I don't even think we finished it.
I think we wrote maybe twice and never finished it.
You wrote two times. I think we wrote twice and
didn't finish one song, and is that your fault? Probably
she probably sense that I wouldn't find into her and
probably ended the I don't want to speak for a
probably ended the thing early and uh a little I'll
give you a little coda to this story. We both

(01:02:02):
wrote for Sony Publishing, which has tons and tons of writers,
and several years later, UM Sony has this big every
year they had this big annual uh Christmas brunch where
they all the employees come, all the families, hundreds of people,
and then they will give out awards. You know, there's
always a uh Joe you know, who's worked here for

(01:02:24):
twenty years award, who's worried five And then they'll have
a Artist of the Year, artist Writer of the Year award,
and a writer just a songwriter of the year award.
And so that year I got I got the writer
of the Year awards. She was going to get the
artist Songwriter of the Year award. At this this is
just a branch at a country club, right, and she
was already Taylor Swift at this point. So we were

(01:02:44):
sitting at the same table and I was going, Hey, Taylor,
remember me, and she's like, oh yeah, yeah. Anyway, so
they they awarded her and gave her her her award,
and she she went up to say a few words,
and she was just like, oh, Sony, you guys are
always been my family. You believe to me. Nobody else did.
I mean, I've just grown so much since I've've been

(01:03:05):
associated with you guys. I mean, I remember when I
first started, I was writing songs with people like and
she looked over people like Jim Beavers. Um. I just
always remember that. I thought it was great and I
know how she met it, but I know how I
took it. Like, so I was, you know, I thought
that was funny. That's funny. That's about tape tape story.
It's a good one. And it's also there's a lesson there,
like if somebody knows who they are now I know,

(01:03:27):
don't don't don't push back, and if and if they
know how to connect, if they have a connection, if
they know how to connect to people, even if it's
not people I connect with. I pay a lot of
attention to that because because that's, uh, that's an authenticity
that you can't you can't make a song make somebody
do that. You know. Well, in this podcast, Mike, I

(01:03:48):
just caught him in a lie he did win an award.
He just said he never won an award, and then
three minutes later he goes, I wanted an award. I'm
just saying, you just contracting the best best Jim Beavers
at my own house or something. Awards? Have you won
that I did? I did two times? Good for you? Yeah,
Well listen, do you have anything? Um, you don't have
to mention it as there are. There are songs out

(01:04:08):
now that people like, Oh, I think I like this,
Maybe it's on hold? Is that always a thing? It's
all you're always wondering. You're always wondering. I'm wondering about
the hoodie song. Will that be a single? Are they
going to do a single? Will that be the one?
I mean because I love the song? And um, so
all you can do is sit and wait and then,
you know, try not to get too depressed if it
doesn't happen, you know, keep moving forward. Of all the

(01:04:29):
ones that you wrote, of all the hits you had,
what's the song that you want to remember for? Um?
I'd probably can I say too? I sure? Well? Watching
Airplane as well Aways be special because it's a wacky
song and it was my first number one, and it
was at number one, and then drink a beer. Um,

(01:04:50):
solely because of how I've learned that people. That has
affected people. Yeah, that's a thing. It's a thing that
I did. I very very much underestimated the power of it.
And and I don't take any kind of credit for it.
Um and and yeah, so that that's even though it's

(01:05:10):
kind of a sad connection, it's it's an emotional deal. Well,
here's a little bit of drink of beer. We'll play
it one more time, everybody. Jim Beepers Episode one. Jeff,
I can't believe we've done. Now what you mean that's it?
We've done over an hour? Yeah, seven o four five pm.
Now come. It's easy when you're talking about yourself, right,

(01:05:35):
it goes about quick. You know all the answer, you know,
you know all the answer. I was nervous, man, I
told my lifepisode I don't really know it. M was
supposed to have stories ready or you know. I was
asked that. I said, no, just having to show up.
And one we already know each other. I'm not even
wearing shoes. I'm nowhere in underwears. Yeah, so it works.
I'm actually wearing your socks and youwhere in my underwear?
So it's a whole um. All right, is there anything

(01:05:55):
you want to promote? Okay, there we have an raging
idiot show in Oklahoma City, Oklauma sitting on a rock.
That's right. But by the time they hear this, it'll
be too late. No, there'll be a couple of days.
But I think they're both sold out, so you can
be honest. Were you surprised when you would see the
amount of people that would come to our shows? Yeah?

(01:06:16):
Because why? Um, because I'm not a daily listener of
yours and I haven't ever been. I have a five
minute commute and so um. And I just didn't realize
how big. I'm sorry, I didn't realize how big the
impact was. And the way I told it to my
wife was, it's like he's got a a very loyal

(01:06:38):
like they're not passive Bobby Bones fans. I mean they
there's like a it's a thing. I know that's not
very well said, but it's a it's a I think
you've you have it. When I talked about a connection
like Taylor Swift having a connectional people, I think you
have a very specific connection with a with a very
specific pretty good sized group of people and it's beyond

(01:06:59):
entertain m hmm, that's what I think, and that's what
I told you to say, so thank you for so anyway.
Do you still need this piece of don't? I don't. Alright,
that's the episode one ninety nine with Jim Beavers. All right,
and everybody you can watch. You can watch this up
on YouTube. I'm playing my profile was the star here
because well, no, it's not your strong And now he's
doing wrap her hands to it. For some reason, he

(01:07:22):
does one raps oh sorry mini rap gus that we
don't know about yet. Alright, episode one night Night. Thank
you very much, and don't forget to check out Velvet's
Edge with Kelly Henderson and check out four Things with
Amy Brown and a lot of the other podcasts here
on the Nashville Podcast Network. Alright, bye, guys,