Rodney Clawson has 24 No. 1 Songs. He started out writing songs in Texas and even landed a No. 1 with Jason Aldean before moving to Nashville to start full-time. He’s since written No. 1’s for George Strait, Luke Bryan, Kenny Chesney, Lady Antebellum and even one for Nickelback that went No. 1 in another country.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
I welcome to two oh five with Rodney Clawson, which
I guess we've we have spenty real time together. We've
met for the first time about six times, and people
always like, this is Ronnie. I'm like, yeah, we've met
like six times a lot through your wife. Um, because
your wife and I have have become friends. But I
would see I'd see you and I'd be like, hey, Ronnie,
I'd be like, have you guys met, Like, we've only met,
(00:23):
but we've met many, many times, so it's good to
have you. We were going over some of your some
of your stuff. We have a wall on the screen,
Ronnie that we put everybody's songs on. We couldn't fit
all your songs. You have so many number one songs. Well,
I mean, I know there's people out there that have
a lot more than me, but um, there isn't a
(00:45):
right response, right, I just kind of let it hang
in and see what they say. Yeah, that's what that's
what therapist has me to do. So you guys just
say thank you kind I'm shocked when I see it too,
so I'm like, how on the hell did that happen?
You know? And by and because each song the worth
of it. We have of estimated you're worth a billion dollars,
but all are you say over under a billion? I
(01:05):
would say, will well over got it? That means worth
two billions. Well, you are in the and I'll get
off this, but you are in the elite three. We
all we haven't something. We call the elite three artists
that have the most number ones that have been on
the podcast. And you are part of that. And if
there was there, if there was a room, we'd all
clap and probably give you a standing ovation. And there's
(01:26):
not a trophy, but we'll mail one to you and
may never come to you. But trust us, we we
we don't know yet. We haven't actually invented it. We
just say it and then we never send it out.
Act something to hold you know what, I'll tell you what.
It's a belt. It's a it's a championship belt. Yeah,
you'll be receiving it in the mail. Just just watch
for it. Um. So, what's interesting about your story is
you actually we're writing songs and they were having a
(01:48):
bit of success before you even moved to Nashville. So
you were in in Texas kind of up in the Panhandle. Yeah,
I got out of college and farm with my dad
for fifteen years, and U had some connections here in
Nashville and started, uh, started writing songs and had three
or four three or four hits before I moved out
(02:10):
here in two thousand and five, so I got I
had got a publishing deal in two thousand and went
back and forth for five or six years, and then
my dad retired and I moved out here full time.
So you got a publishing deal without living here, right,
which which at least I don't know about then, But
now that's pretty rare because part of the publishing dealing
(02:30):
people sign you as they want to set you up
on rights all the time. And if they're setting you
up on a publishing deal, I guess was part of
that that they wanted you to write not only in town,
but to pay you to keep writing at home too. Yeah.
I mean I would come to town one week a
month and I would have, you know, half written stuff.
I would write a few things by myself and uh,
(02:51):
you know, had hey, here, here's a verse, and of course,
you know, do you like it or not? And I
wrote a few a few hits like that. You know,
you were farming, you said fifteen years so you finished school.
What kind of farm, uh, cornwheat, soybeans, a big center
pivot sprinklers. You know in the Texas Panhandle where it
reigns like fifteen inches a year, so it's almost desert.
(03:13):
So you're living the country song, right, Yeah, I mean
out of school, you lived the adult country song. Yeah.
And I was the guy driving the tractor listening to
the country songs that now we're trying to try to
like plug in like, well the guy on the tractors.
Understand it's the guy on the tractors, not maybe the
(03:33):
core audience anymore. But but back when I started, it
was I think, as you were writing songs while living
on the farm and you're working, what's your what's your
dad think about? Maybe the ambition that you had to
be a songwriter. My what's funny is my family. My
mom and dad aren't musical at all. So they were supportive,
(03:57):
but I don't know if they even understood what I
was trying to do, which I mean after I had
had a publishing deal and had several hit songs, I
would come back home. I would come to Nashville and
right and come back home and they would say, like,
you sell any songs this week then, I mean, and
I explain the business to him so many times, and
(04:17):
I don't to this day. I don't know if they
still understand what I do. They they do know that
my songs get played on the radio, though. And you
grew up, like, what what town would you be closest to?
I grew up five miles west of Groover, Texas. Okay,
you gotta help me with groovy r U v R.
(04:37):
It's ninety miles north of Amarilla. I tell people to
get on, Get on I forty and go fourteen hours
west and you'll hit Amarillo and then go ninety miles north.
I know Amarella pretty but we just played a show
in Amarella. Think about Amarella too? Is it that's the
part of Texas that gets snow? Right? Yeah? Oh yeah,
and it's about the only part of Texas that really
(04:57):
gets snow. Yeah. We we've had some big snows. So
you guys at seasons in Texas. So you finished school,
you're you're you're working on the farm, you're writing songs,
um are you like, I'm just trying to understand what
that was like? Are you carrying a guitar as through
the day's downtime, I would I would maybe on the tractor.
I would get an idea in my head, and I mean,
(05:20):
it's it's so different than what I do now because
it's like we'll go you know, you go in and
meet a couple of buddies, somebody has an idea. You
try to write this song and like one day, well
I had like weeks to work on an idea, like
driving the tractor, you know. But I would mainly, you know,
put stuff down with a guitar, like go home at night,
(05:41):
you know, ten o'clock at night, going with a guitar
and try to write like that too for a couple
of hours. Where did that guitar, just the music come from?
If your parents weren't musical or that that influence wasn't
there every day? Um well, I mean I wasn't. I
played piano growing up and I was in bandon choir,
and I learned how to play guitar. Um. Probably I
(06:04):
think I bought a guitar when I was maybe twenty
years old later. Oh yeah, I mean I didn't try
to write my first song until I was I think
like twenty eight. Maybe it wasn't like four like most
people like I was four and I wrote my first song. Yeah, well,
my I had this. It's kind of a weird story
that I I don't like to share it with people
(06:25):
because it just sounds weird. But I had a friend
of mine who left group of Texas and came out
here to Nashville and went to Belmont and got in
the publishing world out here, and she randomly called me.
I hadn't talked to her in two or three years.
Randomly called me one night and said, hey, you're a
songwriter and you don't know it. And I was like,
(06:48):
what are you talking about? And she was, uh, she said,
I'm I'm hanging out with songwriters all the time here
in Nashville and they all remind me of you. So
you need to try to write a song and send
it to me. So she was seeing you and other people.
Yeah yeah, and so I mean it. My. It probably
took me a year to write a song and send
(07:09):
it to her, and it was horrible, but she like
picked out a couple of lines and said that this
right here, this is like, this is great, this is
what you need to do, and did that for a
couple of years, and then I knew, Um, I knew
John Rich from Lone Star. I was his UH. I
was his junior high basketball coach when I was going
(07:29):
to college, really, and so I knew John. And he
he was twelve and I was twenty. So I would
go to class all day and then I would go
coach at this UH. I went to West Texas A
and M I would go to class. Then I would
go coach at this Christian school and Amarilla San just
sento Christian Academy and he was his dad as a
Pentecostal preacher, so obviously his kid went to a private
(07:52):
Christian school. So, um, I knew John. I coached John
for three years. His parents got a divorce, ended up
moving back here to Tennessee, and he would call me
like once a year and'd be like, hey, coach, I'm
working at I'm I'm roy a Cuff opery Land, you know,
opery Land theme park. And then hey, coach, I'm in
a band UH called Texas E which turned into Loan Star,
(08:18):
you know. And then hey, and then the first time
I ever came to Nashville, he said, Hey, coach, we're
going in to cut our second record. You should come
hang out in the studio. So I flew out here
and he picked me up with the airport and I
went to I think it was called the sound Shop.
It was over there by the by the roundabout student
little studio there, and walked in and Don Cook and
(08:41):
Wally Wilson were producing the second Lone Star record. No,
it was actually it was the first lone Star record.
So I walked into studio and I heard, um, they
recorded no News come crying to me, like your three
hit songs. And I'm the first time in Nashville. An
(09:03):
hour after I get off the plane, I'm in a
studio watching Brent Mason and all these session guys cutting
these songs that we're gonna become hit songs in the
next year. It was like, I don't know, baptism by fire.
I don't know what you would call that. But it
was like, holy crap, you know this is cool. You
know maybe I can do this. So let me let
(09:26):
me back it up a second. That's such a good story.
But let's go into John Richard the ball player. First
of all, you as a ball player, let's let's just
start there. If you're coaching, Uh, were you athlete as
a kid? Yeah? I uh, I played, Um, I mean,
I went, you know, small town people. I played basketball, football,
(09:47):
ran track, played a year of college football. Quickly figured
out that if I was ever going to get through school,
I just needed to go to school. And uh so yeah,
I mean, but you know, small town you do everything.
I also did banned in choir too. So um but
John was um pretty good basketball player. But he was
(10:08):
five seven or five eight back in seventh grade and
he's still five seven or but he was pretty good.
But he was a five seven seventh grader. Was he
playing like underneath? Was? He was just a good guard.
He was like a forward. And then his position slowly
forward into a ship. He moved I think in nine
(10:31):
eighth or ninth grade he moved back here. So that
was the That was it for my coaching him. So
and you guys stay in contact, but I think is
pretty cool. So you must have had some sort of
impact on him in some way, even as a call.
I mean, I'm still close fish with my high school
football coach. You had a big impact on me, and so,
you know, and about once a year I reach out
and go, hey, I'm in Lone Star. I tell him
(10:53):
the same thing. I just said, Hey, I'm in Lone Star.
He never believes that. But so you come and you
hopped to the studio and you see this. Now, are
you thinking at that time when you see Lone Star
cutting a record, that they're going to be something? Or
are you like, wow, look at this guy that I
note like trying to make something. I don't know what's
happening here, um I or are you so overwhelmed by
(11:18):
I mean it might have been their second record, they
may have already had a hit. I can't. I mean
you could probably research that. What what songs? Um come
crown to me and um, what was it? It was
like the there was another song? I guess My point
is, is is that weird that John Richard made it? Is
that weird that he made it as an artist made it?
(11:39):
He's made it like three or I went through the
whole deal with him. It was like he was in
Lone Star, then he got kicked out Alone Star. Then
he got a record deal and at our c A
and I think he lost that record deal because he
dunked Joe Galani in a hot tub. But they see
him more and sout in Vega, what you don't want
to do? What? No, that's the wrong thing. And then
(12:02):
he ended up they started Music Mafia, and then he
ended up with Big and Rich. So he's had like
three different record deals and in between there he won
um as CAPS Songwriter of the Year just as a songwriter,
so that he was a he was a really you know,
musically he was he was someone good to know and
(12:25):
and good like, Okay, here's what I need to do,
Here's what I don't need to do. As far as
the songwriting part goes, cool, yeah, yeah, we uh we are.
We write a couple of times a year. We had
a cut on McGraw's last record called California that they
ended up putting out on their own as a Big
and Rich. But yeah, we still write some good songs together.
(12:48):
So let's focus on timograwth on one second. Here are
a couple of timograwl songs that you wrote. Here both
went number one Let's do a Southern Girl from Tim
McGraw Tolue little bit Crazy, and here is one of
(13:08):
those nights another Tim of gaw number one street term.
When you hear both of those, which one of those
can you actually remember hopping into the room more? Which
I remember both of those? Really? Well? Okay, Well, then
let's do a Southern Girl. Southern Girl was um the
(13:29):
first time I had written. When Jared Johnston and Lee
Miller brought a big chunk of that song already written.
I mean, hats off to Lee on that one, and
we finished. We we took what he kind of had
and finished it all the way out. He already had
the road map on that one. And then Jared um
(13:51):
to get home to his place and did like his
cool little um he does. He still does garage band.
He's never done road till. He's still moved up, has garage.
But you would think it's it's pro tools because it
sounds great. And he added that cool little post course
thing like Southern girl rock that he he added that
(14:16):
on his own after we wrote the song. So what
That's what I'm telling you is I didn't have a
whole lot to do with that one. But no, So
when when he sent us the demo, Lee called me said, hey,
what do you think about that post course thing? Like
do you like that? And I was like, dude, I
think that things it thinks it makes it big, that's
what makes it a hit. And he's like really like
(14:37):
Lee wasn't sure about it, but because it is a
bit progressive, And then like I was gonna say, there's
the effect that McGraw puts on it too here, which
you know, I think McGraw what he's often done consistently
but often done really right is do some cool, odd
progressive things inside of very traditional country type music. And
(14:58):
that was Jared did a kind of a version of that,
and then Tim took it like a whole mother step
into the kind of weird world with that little part,
who's the artist that as you write, you feel like
you right the best for for who like their sensibilities
and what they're gonna pick and not who you have
the most cuts with them? But but but you go man
(15:20):
like their life and what they sing about or they
they as an artist, like I get that. Who would
you say that artist is for you? I would probably
say Jason Aldan which four number one with Jason? And
why do you think you and Jason kind of relate
on a level? I mean, he he just he wants
to cut those kind of you know, rock tinged, redneck
(15:44):
driving down the back road, kind of out in the
country kind of tougher songs, I feel, tractors songs too,
Like when you talk about somebody writing a tractor like
you know, a lot of my family are gowing up
also worked on farms, and and I think about them,
like driving the the freaking truck, the big truck, you know,
if it's a dump truck or if it's a tractor
(16:06):
like those Audine songs remind me of that. You got
four and you're very first sever number ones with Jason right.
Why here's here's Jason Aldean. Why he sometimes I wonder
have to come down? Do you love? What's the story
(16:28):
with this one? And not so much the writing of it,
but because it was your first number one? How many
how many cuts on the record until they put it
out as a single? Um? That was the That was
his UM. I think his second single he ever put out.
Did you feel like when you wrote it, he cut
it not knowing yet if it was gonna be a
(16:48):
single that it would be a single. I didn't. I
didn't have any idea, and I didn't have any idea
Jason would be big. I mean, Michael Knox kept you know,
run into him and he said, hey, man, we're gonna
cut three your songs on Jason. I like, I knew Jason,
but you just never know and uh Um. I wrote
that song with John rich by the way and Vicky mcgeey,
but John had um Hicktown, which was the first single.
(17:12):
This was the second single, and this was a song
that I was kind of a little bit of a
head scratcher to me that I didn't really ever think
it'd be a single because it's about a guy being
mean to a girl and this song is like like
almost like well I want to be nice to you,
you know. And but for some reason women really liked
(17:32):
the song. I don't I don't know. I'll run the
audi and catalog of number one burning it down from
Audine when you guys wrote this, because I remember we
played this song on my show for the first time
and again we talked about progressive type music and there's
a lot of let you know, a lot of different
(17:54):
kind of based, a lot of effects that that maybe
Jason had used. Um. When you guys wrote it, you
picture as that kind of song you write it straight ahead.
We we wrote it more straight ahead. It had that
underneath it, which I think those are the actual um
the low end, like the base and the part of
that groove is was tracks that they took from when
we wrote that, but um, we had it more like
(18:18):
rock and roll version of it with harmonies on it
and stuff, and for whatever reason, they decided to take
it the other way that the direct I thought they
would take it even more the direction that we did it,
but they took it the other way, which surprised me,
and I was I was actually a little bit scared.
I didn't I didn't know how people would react to
that too, uh, to the way that they did it,
(18:39):
but it was it was kind of ahead of the
curve there a little bit. So yeah, and I think
actually opened up a lot of doors for those kind
of rocking country guys to experiment a bit with again
some of that deep base, some of that super percussion
type stuff. A couple more Outdeen tracks number one for
you take a little ride and we'll go back to
(19:02):
crazy Town. Here you go this, Yeah and still this
is as far as Jason goes. Really one of those
songs that when I think of Jason athing like, this
is one of those songs that that to me kind
of identifies him in my mind. So would you write
crazy Town with you? Remember? Um? A guy named Brett Jones. Um,
he's been in town for a while. He said, Um,
(19:24):
I think he had a big McGraw cut. I mean
a big, big McGraw number one back in the day. Um.
But yeah, he called me up and and we got
together and he had that idea and we wrote it
and demoed it. And I mean it's like those two
songs like take a Little Ride in crazy Town. That's
just kind of like my wheelhouse. Um or it was
(19:44):
for a long time anyway. Um, And Jason, that seems
like it's kind of his will in his wheelhouse too.
So does he ever hit you up? I go ahead,
I need a song. We've done it right so many times.
What you got? Um? I mean he I do have
an put him into invitation to send him anything at
any time. I have his number, but uh, like I
(20:04):
don't have anything on the new record. So um, I've
been uh recently, I don't know, I've just cant Maybe
at some point I felt like I've written all those
songs already, um man, I've I've been having a having
a blast trying to write stuff for um Morgan wall
In and have a couple on the new Dustin Lance
(20:27):
record that's fixing to come out. There's a new guy
over at Big Loud that's coming out named Ernest and
uh Man. He's a He's a really great songwriter and
fun guy write with. So there's some young guys that
I've really been clicking with and you know, just trying
to do something different, you know what's interesting to me.
(20:48):
And again we'll get back to your catalog. We're not
like I'll be able to touch it all. This is
not the documentary like Oh Boy did eighteen hours. It
could be. This could be that we could do like
it's eighteen hour podcast documentary on your tracks, So don't
be offenitive. We don't touch them all here. Um, okay,
so this is this is nuts because I want a
little deeper on you. And so you wrote a Nickelback song,
(21:10):
Oh yeah yeah, which is crazy. So and you have
another one another country with a Nickelback song, which Lullaby
from Nickelback. Mike play me because I didn't know this song.
I hope you're not offender, Rodney. All right, here we go.
It went number one in Poland. Now do you go
(21:32):
to the number one party in Poland? Is there one?
You know? That's that's the first time I had no
idea it went number one. We're breaking news here. Yeah,
you can add another number one your list. It went
number one in Poland. In the US, I went number
fifteen on the rock chart. But in Poland you have
a number one. You didn't have you ever seen the documentary, uh,
searching for Silverman. That's what you are in Poland. You
(21:55):
don't even know that. If you go back, you're this
huge rock god. How wild would that be? Mike, He goes,
but he didn't even know it. That's how many number
ones he has. He didn't even know he's huge. Another country. Yeah,
that was that was a fun one to write that
because we'd never we had that. We got the opportunity
to write with Chad Kroger because he was coming to
town wont to write country stuff, and we just stumbled
(22:16):
on that idea and he, uh, He's like, wait, this
could be a Nickelback song. So then we went totally
into like Nickelback world, like every line had to have
the exact same syllables, in the exact same interim, in
the same spot. You know that world. Um, but it
was kind of the beginning of the end of Nickelback too.
(22:36):
So it was in Poland, by the way, they were
just blowing up so Nickelback is just endy. But tell
me that Chad Kroker like he wanted to come in
right country or be a country artist. No, no no, no,
he just he He had actually had another song that
had been a single I can't remember, that did pretty
well on the soundtrack. Was it the um? No, he
(22:57):
got a cut cut. Oh, he wrote a song for
something else. I think he wrote a song with excuse
me with Brett James that somebody cutting. I think it
went top ten. So he was like, would come to town.
And when you know, when Nickelback was in between records
and and want to ride and we um we got
to know Joey Moy through Chad, and I ended up
(23:22):
calling jog Joey because I knew Joey was wanting to
maybe start doing some country stuff. Um. I talked Joey
into cutting a song on with UH that Jaco and
had of mine, and Joey and I went in and
cut that song on Jake and we ended up getting
to finish the whole record together. And that was Joey's
(23:44):
first country production in the US. And then the next
thing he did was FG so so that the whole
Chad thing turned into the f gl Joey moy thing.
That's kind of wild how it all shakes out. Yeah,
what song did you write where someone goes, I don't
(24:04):
think that's it, And then it ended up kind of
digging its way through it ended up being a big hit.
Maybe don't call anybody out here, No, I'm searching for that.
But someone goes. You know that, Ronnie, I don't think
this is this is got much got legs to it,
but you believed in it ended up doing something or
none of them. There's also good immediately when they hear them,
(24:25):
like my ears are just I don't know, I can't.
I mean usually it's more of the other way. I'm
going like, this is a hit, this is a hit,
it's not. You know, which of your songs were you
most surprised that it was a smash um because I
can rattle some of these off, man, I would say, um,
(24:45):
I would say, justin moo, we're letting an not roll.
That surprised men, because I don't know. I just didn't
he he Hadden up to that point. Cut anything kinda
that was a little more were progressive for him, and
we wrote it together. But I just didn't think you
would you know, I thought it would be kind of
(25:06):
at the back of the pack, you know, for singles
for him, So that one surprised me. So, you know,
sometimes I have buddies who will go you know, when
I wrote this song four years ago and heard about
it and forever, and then all of a sudden, I
get a call like, hey, we're gonna cut this song.
Do you ever have any of those that kind of
get stashed away for a bit or just kind of
float around and somebody goes, you know, I was going
to do some songs and found this one I've had. Um,
(25:30):
I actually just had. That happened with two different artists,
Um and knock on Wood. I don't know if either
one of them will end up making the record. But
Kenny Chesney has a song for his new record that
he cut in two thousand and fifteen and it didn't
make the record, and about a year ago he called
up me and David Lee Murphy. He said, hey, man,
(25:51):
I still love this song, but the first verse isn't right.
Can you rewrite the first verse? So we went in
and rewrote the first verse, and then I think Kenny
and and David Lee Murphy out on the road rewrote
it again, and um, Ken he just played it for
me out in l A and he's he's excited about it.
So I think it has a decent shot at making
the record. But that song was originally cut four years ago.
(26:13):
And then I had the same thing happened with Keith
urban So and both tracks aren't out yet. Keith I
wrote a song with Asty Gourley and Keith, and Keith
cut it four or five years ago, and then about
a year ago he told me he had re cut it.
And then about six months ago he told me he said, man,
the mix turned out really good. But who knows if
(26:35):
it will end up making the record. But it's funny
that song just like pop back up four years later.
You bring up Kenny Chesney. Have you been writing with Kenny? Um,
just a little bit. I've only written with him a
couple of other times, um, and then just got to
go out to California and write with him. Um. Just
I mean basically just trying to write up tempos for
(26:57):
Disney record. So so what is that like? Does he
you go everybody, we're gonna fly you out, or do
you have does he book you a ticket? Or do
they get to push on they we we bought our
own tickets, got us the house, but it was on
Malibu Beach, so it was a badass. So we got
you guys a house, and how many of you move
into the house? Um, there were six riders, and so
(27:19):
you go in and then is he a part of that? Yeah?
Or do you guys just kind of run and do
your thing and he checks out? We we would split
up and half of us would go right with Kenny
and half of us would stay at the house and
try to ride Kenny Chesney up tempo. And we did
that for three days. And how how does that turn out?
It turned out great. So when I mean, when you know,
(27:39):
like here's where you know Kenny Kenny's up tempo, you
know there's kind of a you know where the lines
are on that and what to keep it between. For
the most part, and all three of my Um Kenny
singles have been up tempo, So I guess that's why
I got the call um. But he uh, I mean,
you know kind of what the what he wants. So
(28:01):
if you sit down and there's no reason to do
anything else, it's kind of four. It's kind of good
because everybody's looking for an up tempo all the time,
so it forces you to have to write. Here is
American Kids. It's one of the one of your bagels
with Kenny Well, this is a monster, like just some
when I think of my time in Nashville, which has
been about six plus years, this is one of the
(28:22):
monsters that kind of just crept up. I remember seeing
the album art. It was like a bus on the
sand or something, or with blue sky behind it. I'm
just going from memory here and I was like, okay,
well let's see what Kenny has got and this one
just smashed. Yeah, it was. It was a fun when
this This is one of those kind of unicorn songs
that you don't you don't see it coming and you've
never written a song like that, and no matter how
(28:45):
hard you try afterwards, you can't. You know, it's you
can't write another one. What does it feel like when
you finish that, when you finish the song that ends
up being amazing? Do you feel amazing when you're done
with the writer or is it just like, oh you
did you? That was with Shane mcinnally and Uclared and
when we finished that song, we were like, holy crap,
who do we We need to be very strategic about
(29:07):
who we send it to first, because somebody that gets
it that you may not think would have as much
success with it because of who they are, could actually
hurt the song. Right. That's interesting because you do you
don't want to have a free for all, because some
artists that maybe doesn't have a prominent place at a
label where they'really gonna put the money behind promoting them
(29:29):
could get the song. Well yeah, yeah that and you know,
and another artist that it just might not be the
right song for. We'll think that's a big old hit
song and they'll try to do it, but it might not,
you know, it might not be there in the you know,
in their strength category doing a song like that. But
it was kind of a it was kind of one
(29:50):
of those, you know, a little bit down a different
path for Kenny. He had never cut anything with that
kind of a field before, and yet it sounded like
it sounded like he'd always done a song like that. Yeah,
it's still sounded when I remember hearing that song, you knowing, well,
this is a bit different, but it's very Kenny. At
the same time, it didn't feel like he was trying
to tackle some new musical ground. And again I think
(30:12):
a lot of that too was the packaging of the song,
like it just all the way around the video the yard,
you know how Kenny was talking about this song. Yeah,
and and we got to all go in and sing
on it too. We did all the I mean us
and our wives and other people went in and you know,
one one day and did a bunch of the background
vocals on this. So that was cool to get to
have a part of it like that too. And I
(30:36):
would say probably I know his get along song that
he just said out last year, which is I love
that song. I think it's a great song. It's to me,
it was kind of like an American kid cousin, which
Shane wrote it. But that's yeah, it's probably the you know,
four or five years later, it's another it's like a
(30:59):
you know, a distant cousin to American kids. But when
I heard it, I was like, oh, yeah, Shane, Shane
was able to kind of catch that groove again. So
tell me if this is true. You wrote Sunshine and
Summertime specifically for Kenny but ended up being a top
five for Faith. So how do you write a song
(31:20):
specifically for someone? Like how did that come into you
to write that song. Um, well, we had that idea,
just in the idea and the feel of it. And
once again that was with John Rich and uh, it
just sounded like when we got through I mean when
we when we uh, when knew Kenny was cut and
we could we had people who could just you know,
hand the song to him or buddy and we um
(31:44):
had that idea and we tried to write it for Kenny.
And so when he says it's not for me, or
maybe it doesn't get back to you that it's not
for him, not sure, No, I mean we got somebody
you know, he passed on it. Okay, So then do
you go, well, let's just see who likes it, or
do you then target Faith well, because it seems quite
the transition to go from Kenny Big Big and Rich
(32:04):
was opening was on the road, Um, they were opening
for Tim and Faith tour and I think John handed
it to Faith. So I kind of have the inside
track on that. Yeah, like that, that's a good one.
Which on that record, John had Mississippi Girl, which is
the first single, and then he had this single also,
(32:26):
I just you know, I have so many of your
songs up here at do you have to sometimes study
what songs went number one until you can remember. Because
I and you know you're being humble. I'll give you.
I'll relate just a bit. I've written a couple of books,
and sometimes I forget the stories wrote in my books,
and people will bring them up and be like, hey,
and I know the stories because I'm from my life,
but I have to like see what I wrote again.
I wonder to remember. This is like times ten with
(32:50):
all these songs. Do you ever just look at it
before you hop in and be like, oh, yeah, that's right,
I wrote Blake Shelton should be cool if you did,
you have to freshen up. Um. I mean I have
a pretty good memory of which ones went number one
on which ones didn't. Do you have a room in
your house while your plaques, yeah, I mean I do,
but they're rapidly becoming more of my wife's plaques in mind, So,
(33:13):
which is also an interesting wrinkle into this. So Nicole Galleon,
your wife, Nicole Clawston, whichever you know, uh Galleon, since
we're yeah music, yeah, of course. Um, you guys don't
write together that often. We were. We ride maybe once
or twice a year. That's not that often when you
(33:33):
go home, I'm sure you have to talk about music
a bit like, Hey, how did day go? Um? You
know what songwriters you guys like writing with? What songwriters
you don't? Um? How what's that competitive feeling there? We talked,
We talked about music all the time. But we've kind
of strategically over the years. Um, just because it's so
(33:53):
when we first got when we first got married, I'd
had quite a bit of success and she hadn't you
ever even had a cut? She had she had, Um,
she got a publishing deal right after we got married.
So we strategically she kept her name, and we strategically
tried to write with other people because, um, if we
(34:17):
if we wrote a song together, and I've seen it
happen with other couples, if we wrote a song together,
people would just presume that it was me, even though
she's she's awesome and she I mean, she's doing way
better than me right now in the last couple of years. UM.
So just as far as career building and branding and
all that goes, UM, we tried to We tried to
(34:39):
help I tried to help her build her career to
where if she had success, she would get the credit
for it, and we've been lucky enough. It's it's worked
out that way. So what is her favorite song that
you have written? And I must switch it up after
this and ask you the something about her, But what
is her favorite song that you have written? Mm hmm,
(35:00):
She's like, man, that's the one I love. That's why
I fell in love with you, because you wrote crash
My Party from Luke Bryan. How's that a bar and play?
I would guess, um, I would guess either I saw
a guy today or American kids. Okay, if you ask
her that, So George Straight I saw God today? Number one? Boy?
What a big one? What I mean? How about getting
(35:21):
George Straight to sing words that you thought in your mind?
That's a yeah. I mean that's a thing. When I
grew up in Texas and I've never That's the only
George Straight cut I ever got because I, like I said,
I wrote stuff that I felt like my wheelhouse was
like Jason al Dean and so you know, I never
thought I would get a George Straight cup. So that
(35:43):
was that was pretty amazing. That song, by the way,
c m a Single of the Year and was not
only for Best Country Song at the two thousand nine
Grammy Awards. And although all that happened, I would argue,
and again I don't really come from a good place
to argue this, but just having George Straight cut a
song would be as equal to actually getting a CMAS
Glove the Year nomination, like or or an award. Would
(36:03):
you rather let me bring this down? Would you rather
have random artist you he sings a song that you
have written and it wins for CMA Single of the Year,
or gett a George Straight number one without that that
award you win the award? I would say, George Straight,
George Straight number one. I'm glad you said that. I
like you better because you did. Just just let you know.
(36:24):
Uh here, I need you to con miss me on
something because I haven't started it yet. But Succession is
what my co host is watching. What you here A
lot of friends talk about. You're watching the show? The
show okay, one of my favorite shows. Tell me why
I will would like Succession, Like, what what is the deal? Like,
what's the hook of this show that's gonna make me go?
All right? That's my show? Um, I think it's got
(36:47):
I think it really has great acting it's got great. Um,
the script storyline has been really great. What's it even about.
It's about um billionaire multimedia family like yours. So that's
why it did. You see a lot of your family
and get it um anyway that the dad had. There's
(37:09):
four kids, they're all you until they've all been brought
up kind of spoiled trust fund kids, and they think
dad's about about to pull the rip chord, and they're
all angling to try to position to see if they
can get the company. But they're all every every characters
(37:30):
like flawed. There's not one redeeming character in the whole thing.
And you like the show, I love you like enough
to recommend it to me, Like, alright here, I publicly
highly recommend it. I quit. I quit watching Billions when
Succession came on because I was just like, which, the
first couple of seasons of Billions was really good, but
(37:50):
like by season three it was just kind of like
you could tell like they'd only thought the storyline out
through a couple of seasons, and when when I watched
the first couple of episodes of six Session, it was
just like Billions was such a letdown. At that point,
I was quit watching it. So I'm gonna as I
forgot to ask this side of this question, what's your
favorite song that Nicole's written to ended up being a
big one? Um? I would say automatic, early, yeah, early
(38:16):
for her? Why why that? Why that song? I don't
remember the not she she brought that song home and
she played me that when she played me the demo
of it, and I kind of got teary eyed and
I was like, you did it, you did it. That's
a smash. That's the number one song. And we didn't
even know, you know, if it would make Miranda's record
(38:37):
at that point, but it was. I mean, that's a
no brainer. When you hear it, it just sounds like
a big old hit song. Your son and I know
this because not to brag on both of us, but
we're both in the Country music Call of Fame right now.
As an exhibit. UM, I have my exhibit and you
have an exhibit. It's you, your son, Brad, and Nicole,
(38:59):
and you're all in this together. We were all at
the big award, you have the big opening ceremony. UM.
So your son has a number one as well up
down Morgan Wallen, what kind of advice do you give him?
First of all, not day to day, but were you
ever like, I don't know about this long right, because
I would never want somebody that I know to get
involved in what I do. I try. I I did
everything I could steer um in other directions. But with
(39:22):
the success that I was having, it was hard for
me to say, no, you can't, this is impossible, you
can't do this, because you know I was. I was
doing it. So. Um, when he told me he wanted
to be a songwriter, he was. He was working at
the north Face store at the Mall and Valley and
cars at the Omni Hotel downtown. He was probably he
(39:47):
just gotten out of college. He's probably twenty four, and um,
he said, I think I want to be a songwriter. Dad.
And so I had a pro tools rigg in my
office that I had kind of started using and quickly
figured out like I should probably just stick to writing
songs and not waste five years in my life trying
to figure this out. Um, I said, hey, there's pretels
(40:08):
rigged up in my office, come by and get it.
And and I basically told him like, if you want
to write songs, start writing songs. And we kind of
played played his deal the same way that we did
with Nicole. I didn't you know. I told him, I said,
I could walk you could write twenty songs. I could
walk you into publisher and get you a deal just
because of my track record. But that doesn't help you
(40:30):
any at all. Like we could write every day and
you could get some cuts, but that wouldn't doesn't help
your career, Like as far as the longevity um and
your brand, that doesn't help you. So he kind of,
you know, he went out there and he found his buddies.
He write songs, and he built his friend group and
he's in the he's in this whole young wave of guys.
(40:52):
You know. He wrote that song with Michael Hardy. He's
uh got another buddy named Grantly James that they've just
been killing it. They've got two or three cuts on
the Christ Jansen record that's fixing to come out. I
think they have the title cut, Um Blake, Chris and
Blake the Real Friends, Real Friends. Yeah? Is that genetic?
Or did he see you do it? Like? How does
(41:14):
that even happen? I don't know. I mean, our personalities
are a lot of like we're kind of laid back
and kind of you know, we can hang out in
the ring with people. So walk me through. What's the
key to writing a great opening line? Like is there
something where you're going? All right, we gotta start this
song strong, Like, what what's the key to writing a
great opening? Because this is the Country Songwriter's Podcast, they're
(41:37):
all listening. I get so many message from people, one
trying to get on this and the two going. I
love when you have people on that actually talk about
the weeds of songwriting. So an opening line of us,
how important is it? It's it's very important, and it's
hard to It's hard to do. UM. You always try
to kind of you know, it just depends on the song.
(41:59):
Sometimes you go for a little bit of shock values.
Sometimes you go for the um trying to set up
the hook here early in the song. People won't real
until you until you get down to the chorus, they
won't realize what that first line of the song was about.
Like Fast, let's go back to Fast, all right, Luke Bryant. Fast.
(42:22):
You know that song kind of goes all over the place, right,
like it's a lot of It starts out with the
title of the song, go ahead. The first line song
is Fast. That's the kind of car you want. That's
the kind of car you want when you're eight team fast.
That's the kind of boys that you want on the
home team that That's the only song I've ever written
that has the title all through the the verse. Let's
(42:46):
hear this. Let's make sure you're telling the truth. There
you go. You got me telling her? All right? Let
me switch it up. Then I was gonna pick one
of random up here on the list of ten million songs.
How about Blake Shelton Drink on It? You remember the
first line of that song? Um, I just thought of
(43:07):
the first line, of course, sure be cool? She did,
all right, I don't. I don't remember the first line
of drink on it? What's the first line of should
be cool? If you did, I was gonna keep it real,
act chill, lock, only have a drink or two? Okay,
So talk about that in a room. How does that?
What does that started? You get to start with the title,
the idea and then kind of work back and explain
(43:29):
that to me. Well, we had the we had the
idea which came from Dazed and Confused, the movie Matthew McConaughey,
were um a drink? Are you telling the truth. I
don't doubt you anymore. I don't know you got me.
There was a there was a part in the movie
where Matthew McConaughey's like driving a car. He looks in
(43:51):
the backseat as this kid if he's got any any weed,
and they kiss said, oh, man, um, I don't have any,
and Matthew McConaughey's, man, it'd be a whole lot or
if you did. And that's where we got the idea
for the song. And I had actually written that idea
down a couple of different times over the years, and
it just seemed to be that day Chris I told
that I do that idea out to the room and
(44:13):
Chris toomp He was like, man, what if we write
it like and he kind of figured out the angle
on it, and then and then some we had the
angle for the chorus, and then we went back and
uh so the first verse is about a guy basically
like man, I was just planning on coming out and
having one drink tonight, but just kind of sets up
(44:33):
the hook like a how who did you see? Early
on it started as a writer or was writing before
they get the artist deal. That ended up being a
big deal, big star an artist or song Yeah, an
artist an artist because most we'll start with a publishing
deal and come down to write songs and learn how
(44:55):
to write for themselves and you get in a room
and there early. But then they ended up being a
big star later that when when you met them, they
really weren't. Um, I would say. I mean Luke Bryan.
I wrote with him right um, right about the time.
It's his uh now, his first single hadn't come out,
but he had had as a writer, he had had
(45:16):
good directions on Billy Currington, and we wrote a couple
of things. Um. I think one of those songs made
his second record maybe, Um. But he was you know,
he was just writing and he had a record deal
and he you know, had a single fixing and come out.
But you you know, you had no idea whether he
(45:36):
was going to be bigger or not. So but we've
written off and on over the over the last fifteen years.
So when he when you're writing with him, are you like,
I guess pretty sharp he is. I mean most of
the most of these guys are you know, they're like
I don't know if you would say they're in there
as a whole their genius personalities, but they have parts
(45:59):
of their personality that they're like borderline genius and and
that's why they're so good at what they do. I mean,
I mean the crazy thing for me is like riding
with Luke that first time. I would have never thought
I would ever seem on TV on American Idol. Would
be like, He's just he just keeps surprising everybody with
(46:21):
what he can do. He walks into a room and
it's like, oh, that got a star. You can tell
you just even in the room because I work on
auto with him, and even in the room where there's
a lot of stars, Luke is the dominant force in
the room because he just comes in. And I'll say
this about Luke to heat, Luke and I are basically
to the wrong time every time. You know, everybody gets
(46:41):
there at their own. First of all, Holly was way
different than Nashville. Like when it's one thirty and the
call times one thirty. First of all, I'm gonna be
there because I'm by far the least star of the
whole thing. But Luke is there too, and he's like,
all right, let's go to work. It's like, as much
as you know Luke is now a big star and
and playing you know stadiums. The dude shows up at
(47:02):
one third and he showed up back back then too,
when he didn't have much going on. He showed up
on time. You know. Was were you ever wanted to
be an artist? Is that everything for you? I want to?
I mean I was a little bit. I mean, like
I said, when I first started coming to Nashville, I
was in my thirties already, and I never you know,
I'm not the people that I've known that wanted to
(47:25):
do it. It's almost like you gotta be willing to
sell your soul the devil to do it, you know.
And I was never that. I was like, oh, you know,
every once in a while, I'd becoming maybe I should
won't try to be an artist, but like, that's definitely not.
You have to have way more fire behind it than that.
So I I love songwriting, I love staying in town.
(47:46):
I loved to hunting fish. I tell people I'd rather
spend a hundred and fifty days a year on my boat,
not on a bus, which I rarely get to spend
time on my boat anymore. But I wanted every town.
I have this imaginary land of you just dominating all um.
How about you ever written a song and realized that
(48:08):
you act? And I'll preface it by saying this before
it seems any sort of accusation. I sometimes will write
jokes and go, oh, I can't do that joke because
I think I was inspired by another joke. I didn't
even realize that when I wrote this joke, And I go,
I can't go out on stage and do it because
I didn't do it on purpose. But I think, if
I'm looking back, I probably heard Chris Rock or someone
(48:30):
do a joke that inspired this joke, and I go,
gotta pull it. Not sure if I gotta pull it.
That ever happened with a song where you go, oh,
didn't do it on purpose, but I think I might
have been influenced. And what do you do in that case?
You just have to be diligent. You know, if you think, like, oh, crap,
I'm on something I've already written or somebody else, that
somebody else might have said something I'm you know that
(48:52):
they might think I got this idea from them. He's
I mean, that's the thing too. That's not even stealing
a song. That's just somebody else talking, huh, get on
the phone, talk to him. Figured out, Um, I had
one song one time that we finished. We went in,
we demoed the song. I brought it home. I'd already
I'd already sent it to I think. I sent it
(49:14):
to Dirk's Bentley and he liked, He's like, dude, I
love that. I want to hold it. And I got
home and I played it for Nicole. I said, hey,
listen to this song. I sent it to Dirks and
he loves it, and she said, that's a Darius Rucker song.
And I went back and it was. It was I
can't remember what single it was, but it was literally
the chorus was like note for note a Darius Rucker song.
(49:35):
And I had to call Dirks and say, hey, that
we're all over the top of a Darius song. I
didn't realize it. Let me try to, let me try
to tweak the melody out to change it so it's
not on top of a Darius song. And then and
then that that was the end of it, you know,
because then it's not the same anymore. That just kind
of runs it. So why do you think that happens?
(49:56):
Do you think that that's our subconscious storing something. We
just kind of fall on it, or did you accidentally
fall on it? You think, Oh I I yeah, i'd
probably heard the song and it just came back out.
I mean, I, I mean, I definitely didn't didn't say like, hey,
let's write a song like this Darius song. I just didn't.
I'm maybe maybe I heard it on the radio on
(50:17):
the way into town and it was in there and
it came back out. I don't. I don't know, but
you gotta be diligent about it. And when you when
you think, you gotta communicate with people about it too.
If you think you're on top of somebody or you
gotta get on the phone and talk to them. And
they might still be pissed, but they're not gonna be
nearest pissed as they would be if they found out
(50:39):
and you didn't tell them. So well, then I should
let you know that. Um. I wrote a song yesterday
called that I Met a bartender. It's a little sounds
a little similar to yours, but I'm glad we're having
this talk right now because there's a number one of
yours bartender. UM, it's not not exactly the same, but
it's Yeah, I met bartender. Yeah, it's it's it's just
it's again. Some people would confuse it if they heard it,
(51:01):
but just me to you, it just happened to fall out.
But listen, you have all these Luke Brian drunk on you,
Luke Brian fast Look Brian crashed my party. Florida Georgia line,
dirt Florida Georgia line, gets a shine on, shine on
Florida Georgia line. Around here, lady a bartender. Big and
Rich lost in this moment. By the way, their first
number one. How about that? Coming back you right, John
Richards first number one and Big and Rich after you
(51:22):
were as basketball coach. That was pretty cool. Yeah, and
they had had that song for a while. We wrote
that song with Keith Anderson, who also had a record
deal and was having hits at the same time, and
neither one of them cut it for their first record,
and then when it rolled around time for record two,
they both cut it, and then they were kind of
in a race to see who could get it out first.
(51:44):
So it's funny. That's a song that sat around for
three years and nobody wanted it, and then all of
a sudden, two different people were kind of fighting over it.
So we're gonna end with this. I give you three
random questions we have here. I gotta do is answer
to these to the best that you can, and we'll
move on with light. What is the last movie you
saw in theaters? Uh? Tarantino movie Thewood Mike, you saw that? Huh? Yeah,
(52:09):
it's a good movie. Did you like it? I'm gonna
go watch The Joker tonight. Have you seen Joker yet? No?
I guess that would be the answer if you had
stupid question. But it looks good. Yeah, I know, Okay,
what is Let's just what's one thing under hundred under
a hundred bucks? Everyone should own one thing under a
hundred bucks that everyone should own. Oh man, that's a
(52:32):
tough one. You know what My new one is? Squatty? Yeah, yeah,
I have one downstairs. This is not an endorsement. I
was just thinking about, you know, in my head, like,
what would I recommend right now? Not the most glamorous
thing to recommend, By the way, you don't want to
talk about taking a dump, right That's not something that
(52:53):
really is like. But yeah, I would not throw the
squatty potty out there is if I'm jumping in this
the thing nder a hundred bucks that I think everybody should.
Yeah what he got? I got some shorts. I have
some workout shorts. I think they're called ten thousand. I
think they're like seventy bucks. That's workout shorts up every
line or an them already. You know that there was
(53:15):
a swimming trunks riding and sorry they feel like panties.
One wasten this one time running talk the shorts of
the liner. I was I gotta have a pool back here,
and I was in the pool. I was swimming around,
and I was like, what is that feeling? And so
I read I'm so stupid, I'm very telling the story.
I reach in and I forget I have some trunks on,
and that line or you know, it feels like, you know, soft,
(53:36):
and I felt it and I was like, oh my god,
did I put on some girls panties? And I didn't
realize it. And for a minute I was like, oh
my god, oh my god, I can't believe I'm wear inside.
But it was a liner. It's a really trivial story,
but that's a that was a real life thing that
happened to me. I thought I had some girl panties on.
They got mixed up Withers can feel weird sometimes, but
sometimes they can feel like the compression shorts that you
put on when you work out. There was no compression here.
(53:58):
This was just panty. This is a straight panty. One
final thing, let's go the last concert you had to
buy tickets for? Last concert I had to buy tickets
for would have been um when the Eagles came to
town with vents. Yeah, it was that the year before last,
about a year and a half ago. I went to
about Bridgeton. Yeah, and you bought tickets because because I
(54:21):
don't know, you don't know anybody, anybody in the well. Listen,
we've we've we've we've done it, We've talked about it.
Rodney Lama on Instagram? How active are you over there? Um?
I tried to post at least once a week, so,
which is pretty good for someone my age, I'd say,
which is about like one tenth of what my wife.
(54:42):
I don't know if one tenth is fair. She's she's
the greatest on Instagram. Rodney, why why Lama? That's back
to John Rich. She used to call me the Rodney
Lama because spit on them kind of calm, Dolly Lama
Rodney lama Um. I don't even know if that's the
religion or not, but yeah, I think they all down
(55:05):
this Rodney lam is dismemorable. Yeah, all right, well there
that you have more songs and we could fit on
the wall, so that should be your biggest honor. We're
gonna send you the championship belt that we talk check
the mail like so when recording this. It's on the eleventh,
but start checking your mail about the twenty every day,
go out to the mailbox, check your mailency if that
(55:25):
championship belts there. Okay, can we send it to the
top three. I'll post it on my Instagram when you
get it posted, and then we'll all right. That's it.
We really appreciate Listen. We recorded this on a Friday,
and you know, I know that you're a busy person
and this I was literally intent like a day and
a half. So I'm so glad that you you agree
to come over and do this. I'm big, I'm busy,
but I'm not near as business not accurate. However, I'm
(55:49):
very appreciative of you coming over on a Friday and
doing this with me, something we've been looking forward to
for a while and I know you and I've been
in passing many times, but now we have many things
to talk about next time we see each other. When
I watched Succession and go, dude, you were right? Or
why did you make me buy all those episodes? What
network is that on? Already? Have it? Already? Have it? Okay,
alright there, alrighty there is Rodney Clausen at Rodney Lama
(56:09):
on Instagram. We'll see you guys next time.
I welcome to two oh five with Rodney Clawson, which
I guess we've we have spenty real time together. We've
met for the first time about six times, and people
always like, this is Ronnie. I'm like, yeah, we've met
like six times a lot through your wife. Um, because
your wife and I have have become friends. But I
would see I'd see you and I'd be like, hey, Ronnie,
I'd be like, have you guys met, Like, we've only met,
(00:23):
but we've met many, many times, so it's good to
have you. We were going over some of your some
of your stuff. We have a wall on the screen,
Ronnie that we put everybody's songs on. We couldn't fit
all your songs. You have so many number one songs. Well,
I mean, I know there's people out there that have
a lot more than me, but um, there isn't a
(00:45):
right response, right, I just kind of let it hang
in and see what they say. Yeah, that's what that's
what therapist has me to do. So you guys just
say thank you kind I'm shocked when I see it too,
so I'm like, how on the hell did that happen?
You know? And by and because each song the worth
of it. We have of estimated you're worth a billion dollars,
but all are you say over under a billion? I
(01:05):
would say, will well over got it? That means worth
two billions. Well, you are in the and I'll get
off this, but you are in the elite three. We
all we haven't something. We call the elite three artists
that have the most number ones that have been on
the podcast. And you are part of that. And if
there was there, if there was a room, we'd all
clap and probably give you a standing ovation. And there's
(01:26):
not a trophy, but we'll mail one to you and
may never come to you. But trust us, we we
we don't know yet. We haven't actually invented it. We
just say it and then we never send it out.
Act something to hold you know what, I'll tell you what.
It's a belt. It's a it's a championship belt. Yeah,
you'll be receiving it in the mail. Just just watch
for it. Um. So, what's interesting about your story is
you actually we're writing songs and they were having a
(01:48):
bit of success before you even moved to Nashville. So
you were in in Texas kind of up in the Panhandle. Yeah,
I got out of college and farm with my dad
for fifteen years, and U had some connections here in
Nashville and started, uh, started writing songs and had three
or four three or four hits before I moved out
(02:10):
here in two thousand and five, so I got I
had got a publishing deal in two thousand and went
back and forth for five or six years, and then
my dad retired and I moved out here full time.
So you got a publishing deal without living here, right,
which which at least I don't know about then, But
now that's pretty rare because part of the publishing dealing
(02:30):
people sign you as they want to set you up
on rights all the time. And if they're setting you
up on a publishing deal, I guess was part of
that that they wanted you to write not only in town,
but to pay you to keep writing at home too. Yeah.
I mean I would come to town one week a
month and I would have, you know, half written stuff.
I would write a few things by myself and uh,
(02:51):
you know, had hey, here, here's a verse, and of course,
you know, do you like it or not? And I
wrote a few a few hits like that. You know,
you were farming, you said fifteen years so you finished school.
What kind of farm, uh, cornwheat, soybeans, a big center
pivot sprinklers. You know in the Texas Panhandle where it
reigns like fifteen inches a year, so it's almost desert.
(03:13):
So you're living the country song, right, Yeah, I mean
out of school, you lived the adult country song. Yeah.
And I was the guy driving the tractor listening to
the country songs that now we're trying to try to
like plug in like, well the guy on the tractors.
Understand it's the guy on the tractors, not maybe the
(03:33):
core audience anymore. But but back when I started, it
was I think, as you were writing songs while living
on the farm and you're working, what's your what's your
dad think about? Maybe the ambition that you had to
be a songwriter. My what's funny is my family. My
mom and dad aren't musical at all. So they were supportive,
(03:57):
but I don't know if they even understood what I
was trying to do, which I mean after I had
had a publishing deal and had several hit songs, I
would come back home. I would come to Nashville and
right and come back home and they would say, like,
you sell any songs this week then, I mean, and
I explain the business to him so many times, and
(04:17):
I don't to this day. I don't know if they
still understand what I do. They they do know that
my songs get played on the radio, though. And you
grew up, like, what what town would you be closest to?
I grew up five miles west of Groover, Texas. Okay,
you gotta help me with groovy r U v R.
(04:37):
It's ninety miles north of Amarilla. I tell people to
get on, Get on I forty and go fourteen hours
west and you'll hit Amarillo and then go ninety miles north.
I know Amarella pretty but we just played a show
in Amarella. Think about Amarella too? Is it that's the
part of Texas that gets snow? Right? Yeah? Oh yeah,
and it's about the only part of Texas that really
(04:57):
gets snow. Yeah. We we've had some big snows. So
you guys at seasons in Texas. So you finished school,
you're you're you're working on the farm, you're writing songs,
um are you like, I'm just trying to understand what
that was like? Are you carrying a guitar as through
the day's downtime, I would I would maybe on the tractor.
I would get an idea in my head, and I mean,
(05:20):
it's it's so different than what I do now because
it's like we'll go you know, you go in and
meet a couple of buddies, somebody has an idea. You
try to write this song and like one day, well
I had like weeks to work on an idea, like
driving the tractor, you know. But I would mainly, you know,
put stuff down with a guitar, like go home at night,
(05:41):
you know, ten o'clock at night, going with a guitar
and try to write like that too for a couple
of hours. Where did that guitar, just the music come from?
If your parents weren't musical or that that influence wasn't
there every day? Um well, I mean I wasn't. I
played piano growing up and I was in bandon choir,
and I learned how to play guitar. Um. Probably I
(06:04):
think I bought a guitar when I was maybe twenty
years old later. Oh yeah, I mean I didn't try
to write my first song until I was I think
like twenty eight. Maybe it wasn't like four like most
people like I was four and I wrote my first song. Yeah, well,
my I had this. It's kind of a weird story
that I I don't like to share it with people
(06:25):
because it just sounds weird. But I had a friend
of mine who left group of Texas and came out
here to Nashville and went to Belmont and got in
the publishing world out here, and she randomly called me.
I hadn't talked to her in two or three years.
Randomly called me one night and said, hey, you're a
songwriter and you don't know it. And I was like,
(06:48):
what are you talking about? And she was, uh, she said,
I'm I'm hanging out with songwriters all the time here
in Nashville and they all remind me of you. So
you need to try to write a song and send
it to me. So she was seeing you and other people.
Yeah yeah, and so I mean it. My. It probably
took me a year to write a song and send
(07:09):
it to her, and it was horrible, but she like
picked out a couple of lines and said that this
right here, this is like, this is great, this is
what you need to do, and did that for a
couple of years, and then I knew, Um, I knew
John Rich from Lone Star. I was his UH. I
was his junior high basketball coach when I was going
(07:29):
to college, really, and so I knew John. And he
he was twelve and I was twenty. So I would
go to class all day and then I would go
coach at this UH. I went to West Texas A
and M I would go to class. Then I would
go coach at this Christian school and Amarilla San just
sento Christian Academy and he was his dad as a
Pentecostal preacher, so obviously his kid went to a private
(07:52):
Christian school. So, um, I knew John. I coached John
for three years. His parents got a divorce, ended up
moving back here to Tennessee, and he would call me
like once a year and'd be like, hey, coach, I'm
working at I'm I'm roy a Cuff opery Land, you know,
opery Land theme park. And then hey, coach, I'm in
a band UH called Texas E which turned into Loan Star,
(08:18):
you know. And then hey, and then the first time
I ever came to Nashville, he said, Hey, coach, we're
going in to cut our second record. You should come
hang out in the studio. So I flew out here
and he picked me up with the airport and I
went to I think it was called the sound Shop.
It was over there by the by the roundabout student
little studio there, and walked in and Don Cook and
(08:41):
Wally Wilson were producing the second Lone Star record. No,
it was actually it was the first lone Star record.
So I walked into studio and I heard, um, they
recorded no News come crying to me, like your three
hit songs. And I'm the first time in Nashville. An
(09:03):
hour after I get off the plane, I'm in a
studio watching Brent Mason and all these session guys cutting
these songs that we're gonna become hit songs in the
next year. It was like, I don't know, baptism by fire.
I don't know what you would call that. But it
was like, holy crap, you know this is cool. You
know maybe I can do this. So let me let
(09:26):
me back it up a second. That's such a good story.
But let's go into John Richard the ball player. First
of all, you as a ball player, let's let's just
start there. If you're coaching, Uh, were you athlete as
a kid? Yeah? I uh, I played, Um, I mean,
I went, you know, small town people. I played basketball, football,
(09:47):
ran track, played a year of college football. Quickly figured
out that if I was ever going to get through school,
I just needed to go to school. And uh so yeah,
I mean, but you know, small town you do everything.
I also did banned in choir too. So um but
John was um pretty good basketball player. But he was
(10:08):
five seven or five eight back in seventh grade and
he's still five seven or but he was pretty good.
But he was a five seven seventh grader. Was he
playing like underneath? Was? He was just a good guard.
He was like a forward. And then his position slowly
forward into a ship. He moved I think in nine
(10:31):
eighth or ninth grade he moved back here. So that
was the That was it for my coaching him. So
and you guys stay in contact, but I think is
pretty cool. So you must have had some sort of
impact on him in some way, even as a call.
I mean, I'm still close fish with my high school
football coach. You had a big impact on me, and so,
you know, and about once a year I reach out
and go, hey, I'm in Lone Star. I tell him
(10:53):
the same thing. I just said, Hey, I'm in Lone Star.
He never believes that. But so you come and you
hopped to the studio and you see this. Now, are
you thinking at that time when you see Lone Star
cutting a record, that they're going to be something? Or
are you like, wow, look at this guy that I
note like trying to make something. I don't know what's
happening here, um I or are you so overwhelmed by
(11:18):
I mean it might have been their second record, they
may have already had a hit. I can't. I mean
you could probably research that. What what songs? Um come
crown to me and um, what was it? It was
like the there was another song? I guess My point
is, is is that weird that John Richard made it? Is
that weird that he made it as an artist made it?
(11:39):
He's made it like three or I went through the
whole deal with him. It was like he was in
Lone Star, then he got kicked out Alone Star. Then
he got a record deal and at our c A
and I think he lost that record deal because he
dunked Joe Galani in a hot tub. But they see
him more and sout in Vega, what you don't want
to do? What? No, that's the wrong thing. And then
(12:02):
he ended up they started Music Mafia, and then he
ended up with Big and Rich. So he's had like
three different record deals and in between there he won
um as CAPS Songwriter of the Year just as a songwriter,
so that he was a he was a really you know,
musically he was he was someone good to know and
(12:25):
and good like, Okay, here's what I need to do,
Here's what I don't need to do. As far as
the songwriting part goes, cool, yeah, yeah, we uh we are.
We write a couple of times a year. We had
a cut on McGraw's last record called California that they
ended up putting out on their own as a Big
and Rich. But yeah, we still write some good songs together.
(12:48):
So let's focus on timograwth on one second. Here are
a couple of timograwl songs that you wrote. Here both
went number one Let's do a Southern Girl from Tim
McGraw Tolue little bit Crazy, and here is one of
(13:08):
those nights another Tim of gaw number one street term.
When you hear both of those, which one of those
can you actually remember hopping into the room more? Which
I remember both of those? Really? Well? Okay, Well, then
let's do a Southern Girl. Southern Girl was um the
(13:29):
first time I had written. When Jared Johnston and Lee
Miller brought a big chunk of that song already written.
I mean, hats off to Lee on that one, and
we finished. We we took what he kind of had
and finished it all the way out. He already had
the road map on that one. And then Jared um
(13:51):
to get home to his place and did like his
cool little um he does. He still does garage band.
He's never done road till. He's still moved up, has garage.
But you would think it's it's pro tools because it
sounds great. And he added that cool little post course
thing like Southern girl rock that he he added that
(14:16):
on his own after we wrote the song. So what
That's what I'm telling you is I didn't have a
whole lot to do with that one. But no, So
when when he sent us the demo, Lee called me said, hey,
what do you think about that post course thing? Like
do you like that? And I was like, dude, I
think that things it thinks it makes it big, that's
what makes it a hit. And he's like really like
(14:37):
Lee wasn't sure about it, but because it is a
bit progressive, And then like I was gonna say, there's
the effect that McGraw puts on it too here, which
you know, I think McGraw what he's often done consistently
but often done really right is do some cool, odd
progressive things inside of very traditional country type music. And
(14:58):
that was Jared did a kind of a version of that,
and then Tim took it like a whole mother step
into the kind of weird world with that little part,
who's the artist that as you write, you feel like
you right the best for for who like their sensibilities
and what they're gonna pick and not who you have
the most cuts with them? But but but you go man
(15:20):
like their life and what they sing about or they
they as an artist, like I get that. Who would
you say that artist is for you? I would probably
say Jason Aldan which four number one with Jason? And
why do you think you and Jason kind of relate
on a level? I mean, he he just he wants
to cut those kind of you know, rock tinged, redneck
(15:44):
driving down the back road, kind of out in the
country kind of tougher songs, I feel, tractors songs too,
Like when you talk about somebody writing a tractor like
you know, a lot of my family are gowing up
also worked on farms, and and I think about them,
like driving the the freaking truck, the big truck, you know,
if it's a dump truck or if it's a tractor
(16:06):
like those Audine songs remind me of that. You got
four and you're very first sever number ones with Jason right.
Why here's here's Jason Aldean. Why he sometimes I wonder
have to come down? Do you love? What's the story
(16:28):
with this one? And not so much the writing of it,
but because it was your first number one? How many
how many cuts on the record until they put it
out as a single? Um? That was the That was
his UM. I think his second single he ever put out.
Did you feel like when you wrote it, he cut
it not knowing yet if it was gonna be a
(16:48):
single that it would be a single. I didn't. I
didn't have any idea, and I didn't have any idea
Jason would be big. I mean, Michael Knox kept you know,
run into him and he said, hey, man, we're gonna
cut three your songs on Jason. I like, I knew Jason,
but you just never know and uh Um. I wrote
that song with John rich by the way and Vicky mcgeey,
but John had um Hicktown, which was the first single.
(17:12):
This was the second single, and this was a song
that I was kind of a little bit of a
head scratcher to me that I didn't really ever think
it'd be a single because it's about a guy being
mean to a girl and this song is like like
almost like well I want to be nice to you,
you know. And but for some reason women really liked
(17:32):
the song. I don't I don't know. I'll run the
audi and catalog of number one burning it down from
Audine when you guys wrote this, because I remember we
played this song on my show for the first time
and again we talked about progressive type music and there's
a lot of let you know, a lot of different
(17:54):
kind of based, a lot of effects that that maybe
Jason had used. Um. When you guys wrote it, you
picture as that kind of song you write it straight ahead.
We we wrote it more straight ahead. It had that
underneath it, which I think those are the actual um
the low end, like the base and the part of
that groove is was tracks that they took from when
we wrote that, but um, we had it more like
(18:18):
rock and roll version of it with harmonies on it
and stuff, and for whatever reason, they decided to take
it the other way that the direct I thought they
would take it even more the direction that we did it,
but they took it the other way, which surprised me,
and I was I was actually a little bit scared.
I didn't I didn't know how people would react to
that too, uh, to the way that they did it,
(18:39):
but it was it was kind of ahead of the
curve there a little bit. So yeah, and I think
actually opened up a lot of doors for those kind
of rocking country guys to experiment a bit with again
some of that deep base, some of that super percussion
type stuff. A couple more Outdeen tracks number one for
you take a little ride and we'll go back to
(19:02):
crazy Town. Here you go this, Yeah and still this
is as far as Jason goes. Really one of those
songs that when I think of Jason athing like, this
is one of those songs that that to me kind
of identifies him in my mind. So would you write
crazy Town with you? Remember? Um? A guy named Brett Jones. Um,
he's been in town for a while. He said, Um,
(19:24):
I think he had a big McGraw cut. I mean
a big, big McGraw number one back in the day. Um.
But yeah, he called me up and and we got
together and he had that idea and we wrote it
and demoed it. And I mean it's like those two
songs like take a Little Ride in crazy Town. That's
just kind of like my wheelhouse. Um or it was
(19:44):
for a long time anyway. Um, And Jason, that seems
like it's kind of his will in his wheelhouse too.
So does he ever hit you up? I go ahead,
I need a song. We've done it right so many times.
What you got? Um? I mean he I do have
an put him into invitation to send him anything at
any time. I have his number, but uh, like I
(20:04):
don't have anything on the new record. So um, I've
been uh recently, I don't know, I've just cant Maybe
at some point I felt like I've written all those
songs already, um man, I've I've been having a having
a blast trying to write stuff for um Morgan wall
In and have a couple on the new Dustin Lance
(20:27):
record that's fixing to come out. There's a new guy
over at Big Loud that's coming out named Ernest and
uh Man. He's a He's a really great songwriter and
fun guy write with. So there's some young guys that
I've really been clicking with and you know, just trying
to do something different, you know what's interesting to me.
(20:48):
And again we'll get back to your catalog. We're not
like I'll be able to touch it all. This is
not the documentary like Oh Boy did eighteen hours. It
could be. This could be that we could do like
it's eighteen hour podcast documentary on your tracks, So don't
be offenitive. We don't touch them all here. Um, okay,
so this is this is nuts because I want a
little deeper on you. And so you wrote a Nickelback song,
(21:10):
Oh yeah yeah, which is crazy. So and you have
another one another country with a Nickelback song, which Lullaby
from Nickelback. Mike play me because I didn't know this song.
I hope you're not offender, Rodney. All right, here we go.
It went number one in Poland. Now do you go
(21:32):
to the number one party in Poland? Is there one?
You know? That's that's the first time I had no
idea it went number one. We're breaking news here. Yeah,
you can add another number one your list. It went
number one in Poland. In the US, I went number
fifteen on the rock chart. But in Poland you have
a number one. You didn't have you ever seen the documentary, uh,
searching for Silverman. That's what you are in Poland. You
(21:55):
don't even know that. If you go back, you're this
huge rock god. How wild would that be? Mike, He goes,
but he didn't even know it. That's how many number
ones he has. He didn't even know he's huge. Another country. Yeah,
that was that was a fun one to write that
because we'd never we had that. We got the opportunity
to write with Chad Kroger because he was coming to
town wont to write country stuff, and we just stumbled
(22:16):
on that idea and he, uh, He's like, wait, this
could be a Nickelback song. So then we went totally
into like Nickelback world, like every line had to have
the exact same syllables, in the exact same interim, in
the same spot. You know that world. Um, but it
was kind of the beginning of the end of Nickelback too.
(22:36):
So it was in Poland, by the way, they were
just blowing up so Nickelback is just endy. But tell
me that Chad Kroker like he wanted to come in
right country or be a country artist. No, no no, no,
he just he He had actually had another song that
had been a single I can't remember, that did pretty
well on the soundtrack. Was it the um? No, he
(22:57):
got a cut cut. Oh, he wrote a song for
something else. I think he wrote a song with excuse
me with Brett James that somebody cutting. I think it
went top ten. So he was like, would come to town.
And when you know, when Nickelback was in between records
and and want to ride and we um we got
to know Joey Moy through Chad, and I ended up
(23:22):
calling jog Joey because I knew Joey was wanting to
maybe start doing some country stuff. Um. I talked Joey
into cutting a song on with UH that Jaco and
had of mine, and Joey and I went in and
cut that song on Jake and we ended up getting
to finish the whole record together. And that was Joey's
(23:44):
first country production in the US. And then the next
thing he did was FG so so that the whole
Chad thing turned into the f gl Joey moy thing.
That's kind of wild how it all shakes out. Yeah,
what song did you write where someone goes, I don't
(24:04):
think that's it, And then it ended up kind of
digging its way through it ended up being a big hit.
Maybe don't call anybody out here, No, I'm searching for that.
But someone goes. You know that, Ronnie, I don't think
this is this is got much got legs to it,
but you believed in it ended up doing something or
none of them. There's also good immediately when they hear them,
(24:25):
like my ears are just I don't know, I can't.
I mean usually it's more of the other way. I'm
going like, this is a hit, this is a hit,
it's not. You know, which of your songs were you
most surprised that it was a smash um because I
can rattle some of these off, man, I would say, um,
(24:45):
I would say, justin moo, we're letting an not roll.
That surprised men, because I don't know. I just didn't
he he Hadden up to that point. Cut anything kinda
that was a little more were progressive for him, and
we wrote it together. But I just didn't think you
would you know, I thought it would be kind of
(25:06):
at the back of the pack, you know, for singles
for him, So that one surprised me. So, you know,
sometimes I have buddies who will go you know, when
I wrote this song four years ago and heard about
it and forever, and then all of a sudden, I
get a call like, hey, we're gonna cut this song.
Do you ever have any of those that kind of
get stashed away for a bit or just kind of
float around and somebody goes, you know, I was going
to do some songs and found this one I've had. Um,
(25:30):
I actually just had. That happened with two different artists,
Um and knock on Wood. I don't know if either
one of them will end up making the record. But
Kenny Chesney has a song for his new record that
he cut in two thousand and fifteen and it didn't
make the record, and about a year ago he called
up me and David Lee Murphy. He said, hey, man,
(25:51):
I still love this song, but the first verse isn't right.
Can you rewrite the first verse? So we went in
and rewrote the first verse, and then I think Kenny
and and David Lee Murphy out on the road rewrote
it again, and um, Ken he just played it for
me out in l A and he's he's excited about it.
So I think it has a decent shot at making
the record. But that song was originally cut four years ago.
(26:13):
And then I had the same thing happened with Keith
urban So and both tracks aren't out yet. Keith I
wrote a song with Asty Gourley and Keith, and Keith
cut it four or five years ago, and then about
a year ago he told me he had re cut it.
And then about six months ago he told me he said, man,
the mix turned out really good. But who knows if
(26:35):
it will end up making the record. But it's funny
that song just like pop back up four years later.
You bring up Kenny Chesney. Have you been writing with Kenny? Um,
just a little bit. I've only written with him a
couple of other times, um, and then just got to
go out to California and write with him. Um. Just
I mean basically just trying to write up tempos for
(26:57):
Disney record. So so what is that like? Does he
you go everybody, we're gonna fly you out, or do
you have does he book you a ticket? Or do
they get to push on they we we bought our
own tickets, got us the house, but it was on
Malibu Beach, so it was a badass. So we got
you guys a house, and how many of you move
into the house? Um, there were six riders, and so
(27:19):
you go in and then is he a part of that? Yeah?
Or do you guys just kind of run and do
your thing and he checks out? We we would split
up and half of us would go right with Kenny
and half of us would stay at the house and
try to ride Kenny Chesney up tempo. And we did
that for three days. And how how does that turn out?
It turned out great. So when I mean, when you know,
(27:39):
like here's where you know Kenny Kenny's up tempo, you
know there's kind of a you know where the lines
are on that and what to keep it between. For
the most part, and all three of my Um Kenny
singles have been up tempo, So I guess that's why
I got the call um. But he uh, I mean,
you know kind of what the what he wants. So
(28:01):
if you sit down and there's no reason to do
anything else, it's kind of four. It's kind of good
because everybody's looking for an up tempo all the time,
so it forces you to have to write. Here is
American Kids. It's one of the one of your bagels
with Kenny Well, this is a monster, like just some
when I think of my time in Nashville, which has
been about six plus years, this is one of the
(28:22):
monsters that kind of just crept up. I remember seeing
the album art. It was like a bus on the
sand or something, or with blue sky behind it. I'm
just going from memory here and I was like, okay,
well let's see what Kenny has got and this one
just smashed. Yeah, it was. It was a fun when
this This is one of those kind of unicorn songs
that you don't you don't see it coming and you've
never written a song like that, and no matter how
(28:45):
hard you try afterwards, you can't. You know, it's you
can't write another one. What does it feel like when
you finish that, when you finish the song that ends
up being amazing? Do you feel amazing when you're done
with the writer or is it just like, oh you
did you? That was with Shane mcinnally and Uclared and
when we finished that song, we were like, holy crap,
who do we We need to be very strategic about
(29:07):
who we send it to first, because somebody that gets
it that you may not think would have as much
success with it because of who they are, could actually
hurt the song. Right. That's interesting because you do you
don't want to have a free for all, because some
artists that maybe doesn't have a prominent place at a
label where they'really gonna put the money behind promoting them
(29:29):
could get the song. Well yeah, yeah that and you know,
and another artist that it just might not be the
right song for. We'll think that's a big old hit
song and they'll try to do it, but it might not,
you know, it might not be there in the you know,
in their strength category doing a song like that. But
it was kind of a it was kind of one
(29:50):
of those, you know, a little bit down a different
path for Kenny. He had never cut anything with that
kind of a field before, and yet it sounded like
it sounded like he'd always done a song like that. Yeah,
it's still sounded when I remember hearing that song, you knowing, well,
this is a bit different, but it's very Kenny. At
the same time, it didn't feel like he was trying
to tackle some new musical ground. And again I think
(30:12):
a lot of that too was the packaging of the song,
like it just all the way around the video the yard,
you know how Kenny was talking about this song. Yeah,
and and we got to all go in and sing
on it too. We did all the I mean us
and our wives and other people went in and you know,
one one day and did a bunch of the background
vocals on this. So that was cool to get to
have a part of it like that too. And I
(30:36):
would say probably I know his get along song that
he just said out last year, which is I love
that song. I think it's a great song. It's to me,
it was kind of like an American kid cousin, which
Shane wrote it. But that's yeah, it's probably the you know,
four or five years later, it's another it's like a
(30:59):
you know, a distant cousin to American kids. But when
I heard it, I was like, oh, yeah, Shane, Shane
was able to kind of catch that groove again. So
tell me if this is true. You wrote Sunshine and
Summertime specifically for Kenny but ended up being a top
five for Faith. So how do you write a song
(31:20):
specifically for someone? Like how did that come into you
to write that song. Um, well, we had that idea,
just in the idea and the feel of it. And
once again that was with John Rich and uh, it
just sounded like when we got through I mean when
we when we uh, when knew Kenny was cut and
we could we had people who could just you know,
hand the song to him or buddy and we um
(31:44):
had that idea and we tried to write it for Kenny.
And so when he says it's not for me, or
maybe it doesn't get back to you that it's not
for him, not sure, No, I mean we got somebody
you know, he passed on it. Okay, So then do
you go, well, let's just see who likes it, or
do you then target Faith well, because it seems quite
the transition to go from Kenny Big Big and Rich
(32:04):
was opening was on the road, Um, they were opening
for Tim and Faith tour and I think John handed
it to Faith. So I kind of have the inside
track on that. Yeah, like that, that's a good one.
Which on that record, John had Mississippi Girl, which is
the first single, and then he had this single also,
(32:26):
I just you know, I have so many of your
songs up here at do you have to sometimes study
what songs went number one until you can remember. Because
I and you know you're being humble. I'll give you.
I'll relate just a bit. I've written a couple of books,
and sometimes I forget the stories wrote in my books,
and people will bring them up and be like, hey,
and I know the stories because I'm from my life,
but I have to like see what I wrote again.
I wonder to remember. This is like times ten with
(32:50):
all these songs. Do you ever just look at it
before you hop in and be like, oh, yeah, that's right,
I wrote Blake Shelton should be cool if you did,
you have to freshen up. Um. I mean I have
a pretty good memory of which ones went number one
on which ones didn't. Do you have a room in
your house while your plaques, yeah, I mean I do,
but they're rapidly becoming more of my wife's plaques in mind, So,
(33:13):
which is also an interesting wrinkle into this. So Nicole Galleon,
your wife, Nicole Clawston, whichever you know, uh Galleon, since
we're yeah music, yeah, of course. Um, you guys don't
write together that often. We were. We ride maybe once
or twice a year. That's not that often when you
(33:33):
go home, I'm sure you have to talk about music
a bit like, Hey, how did day go? Um? You
know what songwriters you guys like writing with? What songwriters
you don't? Um? How what's that competitive feeling there? We talked,
We talked about music all the time. But we've kind
of strategically over the years. Um, just because it's so
(33:53):
when we first got when we first got married, I'd
had quite a bit of success and she hadn't you
ever even had a cut? She had she had, Um,
she got a publishing deal right after we got married.
So we strategically she kept her name, and we strategically
tried to write with other people because, um, if we
(34:17):
if we wrote a song together, and I've seen it
happen with other couples, if we wrote a song together,
people would just presume that it was me, even though
she's she's awesome and she I mean, she's doing way
better than me right now in the last couple of years. UM.
So just as far as career building and branding and
all that goes, UM, we tried to We tried to
(34:39):
help I tried to help her build her career to
where if she had success, she would get the credit
for it, and we've been lucky enough. It's it's worked
out that way. So what is her favorite song that
you have written? And I must switch it up after
this and ask you the something about her, But what
is her favorite song that you have written? Mm hmm,
(35:00):
She's like, man, that's the one I love. That's why
I fell in love with you, because you wrote crash
My Party from Luke Bryan. How's that a bar and play?
I would guess, um, I would guess either I saw
a guy today or American kids. Okay, if you ask
her that, So George Straight I saw God today? Number one? Boy?
What a big one? What I mean? How about getting
(35:21):
George Straight to sing words that you thought in your mind?
That's a yeah. I mean that's a thing. When I
grew up in Texas and I've never That's the only
George Straight cut I ever got because I, like I said,
I wrote stuff that I felt like my wheelhouse was
like Jason al Dean and so you know, I never
thought I would get a George Straight cup. So that
(35:43):
was that was pretty amazing. That song, by the way,
c m a Single of the Year and was not
only for Best Country Song at the two thousand nine
Grammy Awards. And although all that happened, I would argue,
and again I don't really come from a good place
to argue this, but just having George Straight cut a
song would be as equal to actually getting a CMAS
Glove the Year nomination, like or or an award. Would
(36:03):
you rather let me bring this down? Would you rather
have random artist you he sings a song that you
have written and it wins for CMA Single of the Year,
or gett a George Straight number one without that that
award you win the award? I would say, George Straight,
George Straight number one. I'm glad you said that. I
like you better because you did. Just just let you know.
(36:24):
Uh here, I need you to con miss me on
something because I haven't started it yet. But Succession is
what my co host is watching. What you here A
lot of friends talk about. You're watching the show? The
show okay, one of my favorite shows. Tell me why
I will would like Succession, Like, what what is the deal? Like,
what's the hook of this show that's gonna make me go?
All right? That's my show? Um, I think it's got
(36:47):
I think it really has great acting it's got great. Um,
the script storyline has been really great. What's it even about.
It's about um billionaire multimedia family like yours. So that's
why it did. You see a lot of your family
and get it um anyway that the dad had. There's
(37:09):
four kids, they're all you until they've all been brought
up kind of spoiled trust fund kids, and they think
dad's about about to pull the rip chord, and they're
all angling to try to position to see if they
can get the company. But they're all every every characters
(37:30):
like flawed. There's not one redeeming character in the whole thing.
And you like the show, I love you like enough
to recommend it to me, Like, alright here, I publicly
highly recommend it. I quit. I quit watching Billions when
Succession came on because I was just like, which, the
first couple of seasons of Billions was really good, but
(37:50):
like by season three it was just kind of like
you could tell like they'd only thought the storyline out
through a couple of seasons, and when when I watched
the first couple of episodes of six Session, it was
just like Billions was such a letdown. At that point,
I was quit watching it. So I'm gonna as I
forgot to ask this side of this question, what's your
favorite song that Nicole's written to ended up being a
big one? Um? I would say automatic, early, yeah, early
(38:16):
for her? Why why that? Why that song? I don't
remember the not she she brought that song home and
she played me that when she played me the demo
of it, and I kind of got teary eyed and
I was like, you did it, you did it. That's
a smash. That's the number one song. And we didn't
even know, you know, if it would make Miranda's record
(38:37):
at that point, but it was. I mean, that's a
no brainer. When you hear it, it just sounds like
a big old hit song. Your son and I know
this because not to brag on both of us, but
we're both in the Country music Call of Fame right now.
As an exhibit. UM, I have my exhibit and you
have an exhibit. It's you, your son, Brad, and Nicole,
(38:59):
and you're all in this together. We were all at
the big award, you have the big opening ceremony. UM.
So your son has a number one as well up
down Morgan Wallen, what kind of advice do you give him?
First of all, not day to day, but were you
ever like, I don't know about this long right, because
I would never want somebody that I know to get
involved in what I do. I try. I I did
everything I could steer um in other directions. But with
(39:22):
the success that I was having, it was hard for
me to say, no, you can't, this is impossible, you
can't do this, because you know I was. I was
doing it. So. Um, when he told me he wanted
to be a songwriter, he was. He was working at
the north Face store at the Mall and Valley and
cars at the Omni Hotel downtown. He was probably he
(39:47):
just gotten out of college. He's probably twenty four, and um,
he said, I think I want to be a songwriter. Dad.
And so I had a pro tools rigg in my
office that I had kind of started using and quickly
figured out like I should probably just stick to writing
songs and not waste five years in my life trying
to figure this out. Um, I said, hey, there's pretels
(40:08):
rigged up in my office, come by and get it.
And and I basically told him like, if you want
to write songs, start writing songs. And we kind of
played played his deal the same way that we did
with Nicole. I didn't you know. I told him, I said,
I could walk you could write twenty songs. I could
walk you into publisher and get you a deal just
because of my track record. But that doesn't help you
(40:30):
any at all. Like we could write every day and
you could get some cuts, but that wouldn't doesn't help
your career, Like as far as the longevity um and
your brand, that doesn't help you. So he kind of,
you know, he went out there and he found his buddies.
He write songs, and he built his friend group and
he's in the he's in this whole young wave of guys.
(40:52):
You know. He wrote that song with Michael Hardy. He's
uh got another buddy named Grantly James that they've just
been killing it. They've got two or three cuts on
the Christ Jansen record that's fixing to come out. I
think they have the title cut, Um Blake, Chris and
Blake the Real Friends, Real Friends. Yeah? Is that genetic?
Or did he see you do it? Like? How does
(41:14):
that even happen? I don't know. I mean, our personalities
are a lot of like we're kind of laid back
and kind of you know, we can hang out in
the ring with people. So walk me through. What's the
key to writing a great opening line? Like is there
something where you're going? All right, we gotta start this
song strong, Like, what what's the key to writing a
great opening? Because this is the Country Songwriter's Podcast, they're
(41:37):
all listening. I get so many message from people, one
trying to get on this and the two going. I
love when you have people on that actually talk about
the weeds of songwriting. So an opening line of us,
how important is it? It's it's very important, and it's
hard to It's hard to do. UM. You always try
to kind of you know, it just depends on the song.
(41:59):
Sometimes you go for a little bit of shock values.
Sometimes you go for the um trying to set up
the hook here early in the song. People won't real
until you until you get down to the chorus, they
won't realize what that first line of the song was about.
Like Fast, let's go back to Fast, all right, Luke Bryant. Fast.
(42:22):
You know that song kind of goes all over the place, right,
like it's a lot of It starts out with the
title of the song, go ahead. The first line song
is Fast. That's the kind of car you want. That's
the kind of car you want when you're eight team fast.
That's the kind of boys that you want on the
home team that That's the only song I've ever written
that has the title all through the the verse. Let's
(42:46):
hear this. Let's make sure you're telling the truth. There
you go. You got me telling her? All right? Let
me switch it up. Then I was gonna pick one
of random up here on the list of ten million songs.
How about Blake Shelton Drink on It? You remember the
first line of that song? Um, I just thought of
(43:07):
the first line, of course, sure be cool? She did,
all right, I don't. I don't remember the first line
of drink on it? What's the first line of should
be cool? If you did, I was gonna keep it real,
act chill, lock, only have a drink or two? Okay,
So talk about that in a room. How does that?
What does that started? You get to start with the title,
the idea and then kind of work back and explain
(43:29):
that to me. Well, we had the we had the
idea which came from Dazed and Confused, the movie Matthew McConaughey,
were um a drink? Are you telling the truth. I
don't doubt you anymore. I don't know you got me.
There was a there was a part in the movie
where Matthew McConaughey's like driving a car. He looks in
(43:51):
the backseat as this kid if he's got any any weed,
and they kiss said, oh, man, um, I don't have any,
and Matthew McConaughey's, man, it'd be a whole lot or
if you did. And that's where we got the idea
for the song. And I had actually written that idea
down a couple of different times over the years, and
it just seemed to be that day Chris I told
that I do that idea out to the room and
(44:13):
Chris toomp He was like, man, what if we write
it like and he kind of figured out the angle
on it, and then and then some we had the
angle for the chorus, and then we went back and
uh so the first verse is about a guy basically
like man, I was just planning on coming out and
having one drink tonight, but just kind of sets up
(44:33):
the hook like a how who did you see? Early
on it started as a writer or was writing before
they get the artist deal. That ended up being a
big deal, big star an artist or song Yeah, an
artist an artist because most we'll start with a publishing
deal and come down to write songs and learn how
(44:55):
to write for themselves and you get in a room
and there early. But then they ended up being a
big star later that when when you met them, they
really weren't. Um, I would say. I mean Luke Bryan.
I wrote with him right um, right about the time.
It's his uh now, his first single hadn't come out,
but he had had as a writer, he had had
(45:16):
good directions on Billy Currington, and we wrote a couple
of things. Um. I think one of those songs made
his second record maybe, Um. But he was you know,
he was just writing and he had a record deal
and he you know, had a single fixing and come out.
But you you know, you had no idea whether he
(45:36):
was going to be bigger or not. So but we've
written off and on over the over the last fifteen years.
So when he when you're writing with him, are you like,
I guess pretty sharp he is. I mean most of
the most of these guys are you know, they're like
I don't know if you would say they're in there
as a whole their genius personalities, but they have parts
(45:59):
of their personality that they're like borderline genius and and
that's why they're so good at what they do. I mean,
I mean the crazy thing for me is like riding
with Luke that first time. I would have never thought
I would ever seem on TV on American Idol. Would
be like, He's just he just keeps surprising everybody with
(46:21):
what he can do. He walks into a room and
it's like, oh, that got a star. You can tell
you just even in the room because I work on
auto with him, and even in the room where there's
a lot of stars, Luke is the dominant force in
the room because he just comes in. And I'll say
this about Luke to heat, Luke and I are basically
to the wrong time every time. You know, everybody gets
(46:41):
there at their own. First of all, Holly was way
different than Nashville. Like when it's one thirty and the
call times one thirty. First of all, I'm gonna be
there because I'm by far the least star of the
whole thing. But Luke is there too, and he's like,
all right, let's go to work. It's like, as much
as you know Luke is now a big star and
and playing you know stadiums. The dude shows up at
(47:02):
one third and he showed up back back then too,
when he didn't have much going on. He showed up
on time. You know. Was were you ever wanted to
be an artist? Is that everything for you? I want to?
I mean I was a little bit. I mean, like
I said, when I first started coming to Nashville, I
was in my thirties already, and I never you know,
I'm not the people that I've known that wanted to
(47:25):
do it. It's almost like you gotta be willing to
sell your soul the devil to do it, you know.
And I was never that. I was like, oh, you know,
every once in a while, I'd becoming maybe I should
won't try to be an artist, but like, that's definitely not.
You have to have way more fire behind it than that.
So I I love songwriting, I love staying in town.
(47:46):
I loved to hunting fish. I tell people I'd rather
spend a hundred and fifty days a year on my boat,
not on a bus, which I rarely get to spend
time on my boat anymore. But I wanted every town.
I have this imaginary land of you just dominating all um.
How about you ever written a song and realized that
(48:08):
you act? And I'll preface it by saying this before
it seems any sort of accusation. I sometimes will write
jokes and go, oh, I can't do that joke because
I think I was inspired by another joke. I didn't
even realize that when I wrote this joke, And I go,
I can't go out on stage and do it because
I didn't do it on purpose. But I think, if
I'm looking back, I probably heard Chris Rock or someone
(48:30):
do a joke that inspired this joke, and I go,
gotta pull it. Not sure if I gotta pull it.
That ever happened with a song where you go, oh,
didn't do it on purpose, but I think I might
have been influenced. And what do you do in that case?
You just have to be diligent. You know, if you think, like, oh, crap,
I'm on something I've already written or somebody else, that
somebody else might have said something I'm you know that
(48:52):
they might think I got this idea from them. He's
I mean, that's the thing too. That's not even stealing
a song. That's just somebody else talking, huh, get on
the phone, talk to him. Figured out, Um, I had
one song one time that we finished. We went in,
we demoed the song. I brought it home. I'd already
I'd already sent it to I think. I sent it
(49:14):
to Dirk's Bentley and he liked, He's like, dude, I
love that. I want to hold it. And I got
home and I played it for Nicole. I said, hey,
listen to this song. I sent it to Dirks and
he loves it, and she said, that's a Darius Rucker song.
And I went back and it was. It was I
can't remember what single it was, but it was literally
the chorus was like note for note a Darius Rucker song.
(49:35):
And I had to call Dirks and say, hey, that
we're all over the top of a Darius song. I
didn't realize it. Let me try to, let me try
to tweak the melody out to change it so it's
not on top of a Darius song. And then and
then that that was the end of it, you know,
because then it's not the same anymore. That just kind
of runs it. So why do you think that happens?
(49:56):
Do you think that that's our subconscious storing something. We
just kind of fall on it, or did you accidentally
fall on it? You think, Oh I I yeah, i'd
probably heard the song and it just came back out.
I mean, I, I mean, I definitely didn't didn't say like, hey,
let's write a song like this Darius song. I just didn't.
I'm maybe maybe I heard it on the radio on
(50:17):
the way into town and it was in there and
it came back out. I don't. I don't know, but
you gotta be diligent about it. And when you when
you think, you gotta communicate with people about it too.
If you think you're on top of somebody or you
gotta get on the phone and talk to them. And
they might still be pissed, but they're not gonna be
nearest pissed as they would be if they found out
(50:39):
and you didn't tell them. So well, then I should
let you know that. Um. I wrote a song yesterday
called that I Met a bartender. It's a little sounds
a little similar to yours, but I'm glad we're having
this talk right now because there's a number one of
yours bartender. UM, it's not not exactly the same, but
it's Yeah, I met bartender. Yeah, it's it's it's just
it's again. Some people would confuse it if they heard it,
(51:01):
but just me to you, it just happened to fall out.
But listen, you have all these Luke Brian drunk on you,
Luke Brian fast Look Brian crashed my party. Florida Georgia line,
dirt Florida Georgia line, gets a shine on, shine on
Florida Georgia line. Around here, lady a bartender. Big and
Rich lost in this moment. By the way, their first
number one. How about that? Coming back you right, John
Richards first number one and Big and Rich after you
(51:22):
were as basketball coach. That was pretty cool. Yeah, and
they had had that song for a while. We wrote
that song with Keith Anderson, who also had a record
deal and was having hits at the same time, and
neither one of them cut it for their first record,
and then when it rolled around time for record two,
they both cut it, and then they were kind of
in a race to see who could get it out first.
(51:44):
So it's funny. That's a song that sat around for
three years and nobody wanted it, and then all of
a sudden, two different people were kind of fighting over it.
So we're gonna end with this. I give you three
random questions we have here. I gotta do is answer
to these to the best that you can, and we'll
move on with light. What is the last movie you
saw in theaters? Uh? Tarantino movie Thewood Mike, you saw that? Huh? Yeah,
(52:09):
it's a good movie. Did you like it? I'm gonna
go watch The Joker tonight. Have you seen Joker yet? No?
I guess that would be the answer if you had
stupid question. But it looks good. Yeah, I know, Okay,
what is Let's just what's one thing under hundred under
a hundred bucks? Everyone should own one thing under a
hundred bucks that everyone should own. Oh man, that's a
(52:32):
tough one. You know what My new one is? Squatty? Yeah, yeah,
I have one downstairs. This is not an endorsement. I
was just thinking about, you know, in my head, like,
what would I recommend right now? Not the most glamorous
thing to recommend, By the way, you don't want to
talk about taking a dump, right That's not something that
(52:53):
really is like. But yeah, I would not throw the
squatty potty out there is if I'm jumping in this
the thing nder a hundred bucks that I think everybody should.
Yeah what he got? I got some shorts. I have
some workout shorts. I think they're called ten thousand. I
think they're like seventy bucks. That's workout shorts up every
line or an them already. You know that there was
(53:15):
a swimming trunks riding and sorry they feel like panties.
One wasten this one time running talk the shorts of
the liner. I was I gotta have a pool back here,
and I was in the pool. I was swimming around,
and I was like, what is that feeling? And so
I read I'm so stupid, I'm very telling the story.
I reach in and I forget I have some trunks on,
and that line or you know, it feels like, you know, soft,
(53:36):
and I felt it and I was like, oh my god,
did I put on some girls panties? And I didn't
realize it. And for a minute I was like, oh
my god, oh my god, I can't believe I'm wear inside.
But it was a liner. It's a really trivial story,
but that's a that was a real life thing that
happened to me. I thought I had some girl panties on.
They got mixed up Withers can feel weird sometimes, but
sometimes they can feel like the compression shorts that you
put on when you work out. There was no compression here.
(53:58):
This was just panty. This is a straight panty. One
final thing, let's go the last concert you had to
buy tickets for? Last concert I had to buy tickets
for would have been um when the Eagles came to
town with vents. Yeah, it was that the year before last,
about a year and a half ago. I went to
about Bridgeton. Yeah, and you bought tickets because because I
(54:21):
don't know, you don't know anybody, anybody in the well. Listen,
we've we've we've we've done it, We've talked about it.
Rodney Lama on Instagram? How active are you over there? Um?
I tried to post at least once a week, so,
which is pretty good for someone my age, I'd say,
which is about like one tenth of what my wife.
(54:42):
I don't know if one tenth is fair. She's she's
the greatest on Instagram. Rodney, why why Lama? That's back
to John Rich. She used to call me the Rodney
Lama because spit on them kind of calm, Dolly Lama
Rodney lama Um. I don't even know if that's the
religion or not, but yeah, I think they all down
(55:05):
this Rodney lam is dismemorable. Yeah, all right, well there
that you have more songs and we could fit on
the wall, so that should be your biggest honor. We're
gonna send you the championship belt that we talk check
the mail like so when recording this. It's on the eleventh,
but start checking your mail about the twenty every day,
go out to the mailbox, check your mailency if that
(55:25):
championship belts there. Okay, can we send it to the
top three. I'll post it on my Instagram when you
get it posted, and then we'll all right. That's it.
We really appreciate Listen. We recorded this on a Friday,
and you know, I know that you're a busy person
and this I was literally intent like a day and
a half. So I'm so glad that you you agree
to come over and do this. I'm big, I'm busy,
but I'm not near as business not accurate. However, I'm
(55:49):
very appreciative of you coming over on a Friday and
doing this with me, something we've been looking forward to
for a while and I know you and I've been
in passing many times, but now we have many things
to talk about next time we see each other. When
I watched Succession and go, dude, you were right? Or
why did you make me buy all those episodes? What
network is that on? Already? Have it? Already? Have it? Okay,
alright there, alrighty there is Rodney Clausen at Rodney Lama
(56:09):
on Instagram. We'll see you guys next time.
Host
Bobby Bones
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