#361 - Famous Firsts: Stories Behind Artists First No. 1 Songs with Keith Urban, Kelsea Ballerini, Luke Combs, Dierks Bentley and More! - Bobbycast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
M. Welcome to episode three sixty one. Famous First is
a good one. You gotta shout out my putting this together.
It's a really great episode. So it's about famous First
and some of these artists that will hear from here.
I had to make it as songwriters, you know, we'll
talk about their famous first maybe the songwriter you know.
These are a lot of the stories that we have

(00:20):
gathered about their first number one songs. A lot of
times they were struggling as an artist forever and finally
got their first number one. It's just a lot of
folks that you think probably have always been successful talking
about how they haven't always been successful and how it
was a grind and their first number one. So you'll
hear stories behind number one from Kelsey, Ballerini, Derk s Bentley,
Luke Combs, Lady A, and a whole bunch more. What

(00:42):
was your first number one? I'm glad you asked. You're
talking about what music? Music? Well, it's, uh, it's kind
of controversial thing to ask me since I'm not a
real life musician. But The Raging Idiots had a number
one comedy album and we had a number one comedy
song with Namas Day back in and that was our

(01:04):
first number one, first number one. That's it? Oh you
have it there, you already knew that. Yeah, we've had
a few like in these odd category number one number
one children's song which we had was when I grew
up up up by could be that one whatever, That
was the number one song. But it's been pretty crazy

(01:25):
you any number ones ever? No, I never written number one,
written a number like a top five, top five? What
comedy song? Oh with me? Yeah, but it's Sunday it's
like a number three. Yeah, it was number three, That
is true. Maybe you know what our new goals. But
did they even categorize comedy? Yeah, I'll tell you what
happened on Spotify. They have pulled a bunch of comedy
stuff for whatever reason. I don't know if it's the

(01:46):
rights thing, but they pulled Aromas Day off Spotify for
like a month because we had classified at this comedy.
We had to go back and reclassified this country and
it stayed up on all the other platforms except Spotify.
We go check and see if it's there, but once
we reclass has a fight and it popped back up. Yeah,
there was a royalty thing with people claiming their comedy
stuff on there. Is that what it is? Yeah, so

(02:07):
they pulled a whole lot of that stuff. But there
you go. All right, well this is a really cool episode.
Nice job on this. It should this should be submitted
for some sort of award. It to be your first
There we go, my first podcast award. All right, here
we go the Bobby Cast Famous. First, let's get into
the first one. Keith Urban. He talked about how he
vividly remembers his first number one but for the grace

(02:28):
of God, because it came after years after struggles on
his label. When you became Keith Urban, I'm gonna rolled
through some number one here, two thousand and one, your
first number one, but for the grace of God's here
a little bit. It is God again after the years

(02:52):
of struggle on a label to have a hit, did
it feel like a relief or did it all like
this is amazing, because there's a difference. Was it like,
oh my God, thank you? Was like whoa, That's what
I'm talking about? It only above. It was surreal to
have a number one song in America was just crazy.

(03:17):
Remember that, like it was yesterday. Really, oh my god,
twenty years ago, you still remember it like that your
first Literally, yeah, I remember exactly the house I was at,
what I was doing, who told me everything like detail
because it was too surreal. I was like number one,
like the number one most played song and country radio
in America? Truly really did your life change after that?

(03:38):
After you had a number one, since you could say it, um,
I felt like, okay, now we got a chance to
get some more music going. And the next single after that,
I think was Where the Black Top Bands, which is
weird because it peaked. I was looking at numbers. It
wasn't a number one, but that, to me is one
of the songs I think of when I think of

(04:00):
you in your catalog is Where the Black Cop Ends.
It wasn't even number one, which shows you not all
number one or career songs, and not all career songs
or number one songs. Even in two thousand two thou
two did that song feel big like a number one song?
Where the Black Top Ins. I can't remember that now.
When you can't remember now, I can't remember that. I

(04:21):
mean I remember making that a whole album with Matt Rawlings,
and it was the first time where I was in
a studio and having gone through all of the famous
producers and realizing none of it works for me. It
just I don't know what I'm gonna do. Um. There
was a guy running Capital Records at the time called
Pat Quigley and he was the president. And I used

(04:43):
every proper famous producer and none of it was working.
And I went into Patt and I said, can I
just I had just done a session with Matt Rawlings
for somebody else. The two of us were playing on it,
and I clicked with him and I really liked him
a lot, and I said, could I just go and
record some songs with this guy? Because I think he
can put good band together and we can just make
a record that sounds good. And he went, yeah, whatever.

(05:06):
It was very much that case of like, go do
whatever you want to do. We're not that interest. You
could tell it was whatever it's going. So we went
and cut up the Grace God and like four or
five songs, and I took him in and played for
him and he goes, that sounds good and just finished
the record out. It was no big deal, and we
handed in the record and it had It's a love
Thing and I want to be everything. All the singles

(05:27):
that came out Grace God, Black Top all that stuff, um,
and they put out Love It's a love Thing, and
I think I went to the number eighteen or something like, No,
it's okay, pretty good. They put out another song, I
Want to Be Everything, and I got to top five
or close to it, and it wasn't It was okay.
Everything was okay. And then the label really focused on

(05:48):
me and they put out Grace to God and it
did that and I could feel everything changed after that.
Whenever Somebody like You comes out two thousand two, there's
a little clip. Do you remember this one? Is vivid?
At your second number one? You do everything about it.

(06:10):
Recording it first time, I'd work with Dan hulf Um
working out at Sound Kitchen and Franklin and the putting them,
putting the band together and the set, the whole session.
I remember it vividly because it got magical. Does a
guy like Dan half challenge you? So? Uh? I was
going to do the next record on my own UM

(06:33):
Golden Road, and I had already done six six sides
of that record, including who who were on Me? I
put the band together, I chose the studio, I chose
the engineer, I put it all together. And then someone said,
you know, you should try and work with Dan half
and I went, no, I don't want to work with
him because and they went, well, he's a guitar player.
I mean, I'm so not going to work with a
guitar player who's gonna tell me what to play, you know.

(06:55):
I don't want that. I've been down this road before.
And they're like, we'll just give it a shot, you know.
And I met with Dan, and this is a true story,
and I it was really a compliment to Dan. I
met with Dan. I said, Okay, I've got this one
song it's called Somebody Like You that that'd be a
good one for us to start on. And I've already
been in the studio for two weeks with this band.

(07:16):
We'd cut half the record, it's already done. And Dan says, okay,
this song feels great. Um, I think we should use
this drummer. And I got already got the drummer. Well,
I think we should use this space. But I got
I got the whole band. Dan, I got the whole band,
all right, Well, I like to work at this studio,
I said, I'm already at the studio. We're gonna be
at sand kitchen. Okay, well the engineer I like to

(07:36):
use is already got the engineer. His name is justin Ebank.
And he goes, what do I do when I go,
you just show up. That's all you're gonna do. Show
up because I want to see what you do. I'm
sick of these producers that say they're a producer, but
really they have great engineer, great players, they don't do anything.
I saw it again and again and again. I'm like,
just show up. What the hell can you possibly bring

(07:58):
to this session? I want to see? And he walked
into that session. I've been with this band for two weeks.
He walks in and I literally could feel all the
musicianship go up a whole other level just with him
being in the room. He sat in the room, the
band's playing a bit of Somebody Like You, and he goes, hey, Chris,
just change that snare a little bit there. Okay, yeah,

(08:18):
leave that base part out right there, and you play
that bit over there. And he I watched him arrange
this thing and the whole track just elevated and like, well, damn,
this guy is the real deal. He's so good. When
did the town start to treat you differently. I was
already getting support from the town very early on. I
think because of all those writing sessions, you know, and

(08:40):
when you write with people, where it gets out whether
you can really thing, really play, whether you know about
country music, if you're legit or just some poser really.
So I think those sort of guitar pool sessions of
people's houses going to the Bluebird, people knew I was
for real. Kelsey Ballerini talked about how she landed her
first number one, love Me Like You Mean It Back.

(09:03):
She wasn't signed as an artist when she wrote this song,
and it was even pitched to other artists before she
recorded it. Tell me about this here, So you're talking
about writing the song. Yeah, where are you talking about
the room? Who's in the room? This was such a
random mistake song. Um, that wasn't a mistake we had.
We were writing at Black River. I was writing with

(09:23):
Um Josh Kerr that day and Um Forest was writing
with a guy named Lance Carpenter that day. Um, and
so we all get done with our rights and we're like, hey,
should we try to all write together? Like we're all
kind of so you wrote separately and they came together
on this one. Yeah, it was our second song of
the day and um, yeah, so we got together and
we ordered soul Shine and we just kind of pizza

(09:46):
pizza yeah, um, and we kind of just posted up
in like the the big lobby area of the label, um,
the upstairs by the fireplace, you know. But I'm just
the question as um and so yeah, and it was
kind of no pressure and we were sitting there, we
were catching up. We all we didn't really get a
lot of time together and um, yeah, we're just talking,

(10:07):
hanging out and I think the first thing that came
out well Forest actually, who ended up producing the whole record. Um,
he's like my musical partner. He's just that person for
me that I feel like it's my better half and
has really become that, and especially now even working on
the next record, is that even more so. But um,

(10:30):
he was like, Hey, we're listening to Take a Bow
by Rihanna. I love pop music, and so we're listening
to that song and he was like, I really feel
like you should try to to do like that swag
that she does how she kind of like laughs after
she says a sassy lion all that stuff. And I
was like, I just don't know if I can pull
that off. You know, I didn't know because I was
I mean I was nineteen at the time maybe and

(10:53):
I don't know, just insecure and awkward and UM. So
he's like, let's just try it, and he started playing
the debt app but dead a Dad on the guitar
and and then we were all kind of like the
if you're gonna know, if you're gonna We just loved
that done on a kind of melodic thing and um.
And then we literally just wrote it like thirty minutes.

(11:14):
And uh, I don't think we really thought anything of
it other than it was fun. But the moment for
me that I remember was Forest did a demo for it, um,
and I sang the demo. So he did like a
basic track like guitar beat. I sang it like the
next day, and then he did a demo for it,

(11:36):
like built around my vocal and said it to me,
I mean maybe a week and a half later, and
I remember putting on my headphones listening to this demo
being like, that's special. And I don't know why because
it's not lyrically genius or anything, you know, but it's
special to me. And um and the label felt the
same way about it, so and it got pitched around
town to which I didn't know till later. So they

(11:57):
were trying to give the song some other people. I
didn't know that because I wasn't signed yet. Yeah, and
as you weren't okay good, this is all putting it
into it to a place. Now you weren't signed as
an artist when you wrote this song. It's fair than
they pitch it. Yeah, to you, it may not feel fair,
but guys, this is the first one. I get it completely.
But looking at everyone thought it was way too pop,

(12:19):
and I think, and this is a kind of a
weird place for you right now, and that's why I'm
really anxious. And listen, I've heard some of your You've
sent me some stuff on your second album, and I'm
ex just for it to come out, because it's gonna
paint a new you, because what what's happened with you
as you created this new niche in the format and
now a bit. I don't think it's I don't think
you're being penalized for it, but I think this is

(12:40):
your one record and it got so big that people
only know you as the pop country girl. So now
it's your goal and this is just me talking, and
it's your goal with the second record to show your depth.
Do you do you feel that yes, I think that
just talking super honestly, Like I think that this first record,

(13:02):
it was really heavily embraced by radio, which was really epic.
But I think in doing that the industry absolutely it
made you not cool. It made me really not cool,
and so it was awesome because I was like radio's girl,
which I love, and I mean I did a twenty
two week radio tour. I mean like that means for
those of whom know, she's going to morning shows and

(13:24):
radio stations. It's five in the morning and singing and
it's miserable and it is and you're dealing. It's just
and you're going city to city the little station, a
little station, every single day doing this anything over and
over and over and over again. Yeah, and it and
it it's it's paid off and it's been amazing and
that relationship has been amazing. But I think in in
that happening how it did, it made Nashville kind of

(13:45):
be like, but what a place to be because you're right, yeah,
you put out this record and it it breaks records
and sets new standards and here you are, You're all
over all over TV. But you know how industry snooty
can be. So to the industry like they you know,

(14:05):
you're not that cool, but everybody in the world you're
the coolest thing ever. And it's a weird dynamic because
you're blowing up. But then the people that are at home,
you're like that you want to to like be like, oh, Kelcy,
so you're like, oh, they don't think I'm cool because
my song sound poppy. It was. It's a huge and
security of mine. Yeah, And and the thing for me
like my biggest goal right now, And like I'm in

(14:29):
Nashville right now, like I have two and a half
weeks to finish my record essentially, and I'm writing twice
a day. I'm writing after this I wrote this morning,
Like I'm just like trying to drain myself of that
because if anything, like I just want people to know
I'm a songwriter on this next album. That's the most
important thing to me. And what's funny, you're such a
long writer, you know. I mean I used to play

(14:50):
you and I know and we would drive for hours
and hours and hours when you would play songs and
you're very much a songwriter. But I saw it as
it was happening, and as you were exploding. I saw
you exploding in one way and becoming industry less cool
at the same time. And it's such a weird anomally
it's like the bigger you got, but you screw them,

(15:11):
because I'm gonna tell you in a sort of way
that that's happened to me too, where it's like, you
know what, I'm just gonna be me and that's really
all you can be. It's yes, it's carry carry her
Khalil line. This sounds so lame, but her trademark or
whatever is stay the path, stay your path. And I'm like,
I always have to tell myself that because I'm always

(15:32):
comparing myself. You're the next You're the first of the
next wave. And that's that's pressure too. It's a lot
of pressure too, because you have to put out a
second record and the next record that you really do.
It a lot of pressure. But the good thing for
you is you also you create your content. You're not
just not picking and and that's a and that's a
different skill sell set in itself. But you're right, yeah,

(15:52):
and a lot of people don't, so you can actually
create your own path, which even if you lose, if
you're creating your own path, at least lose. At least
you lose by creating, Yes, you don't have to get
someone else's vot and sync. You get to build your
one boat and sink. There's so much more into that
than it is just falling with it. So, um, love
me comes out? Yeah, let it comes out. Wonderful song.

(16:13):
Who picks it? By the way, like when it was
across the board, we just knew we we had a meeting,
just I think for the sake of having a meeting. Um,
and we all sat around and I don't even know
if I had management at the time. I don't think
I had management. Yet you didn't because your management I
remember meeting you're now manager in St. Louis when he

(16:34):
came to one of our Yes, you're right, you're right.
So I didn't have management. It was just me in
my label and we all, which is not a good
place to be, by the way. You want to always
have someone there. But again, you pick a good song,
good to go. Yeah, And so we listened to three songs.
We had a song of looking at stars the first
time and love Me and listen to all three and

(16:54):
then we all went around the table and voted, and
everyone said loved me and and then I guess they
already n that that was going to happen. So then
we they had all these like cool bracelets made that
said let me like you mean it on um. It
was a cool moment. Yeah. Luke Holmbs got his first
number one in with Hurricane. He told us the story
behind that song and how it led to a string
of six more that followed. We get into the stories

(17:17):
of each one. Here walk through these number ones and
just give me a couple of sentences about what they
like when you hear them back, Like what was happening
around the time that either you wrote it or number one?
Like what story we'll start. We'll start with Hurricane. Here
you go, here's that. What do you think when that plays?

(17:39):
I mean, it just is a flood of like things
were just really happening at that time, you know, And
and that song was around it for you know, in
my life at that time a long time. You know,
it had been out for you know, by the time
it went number one, it had been out for two years.
And so I played that song on a lot of clubs,

(18:01):
and and I just could I I can just feel
the like the momentum when you play that song, because
it's you know, I kind of everything to that song,
you know. I mean I wouldn't be sitting here talking
to you if it wasn't for that moment in time,
you know. And I just remember, you know, playing all
these shows, and man, we're selling everything out, and people

(18:23):
were all these important you know, business people were coming
out and we want to see the show, and we
want to talk to you about this, and and just excitement,
I guess would be the word that I think of
when that song comes to mind. All right, number two
here is your second one one number away, I'm number.

(18:47):
That's just different, you know, it was. It was the
most different thing that I had done at that time,
especially when we wrote it. You know, I had never
written to a track before. I didn't know what that was, um,
and it was just it was it was cool, man.
It was kind of like I was like, man, this
thing is just so cool. It's such a risk for
me I felt at that time to put out, you know,

(19:08):
and so I mean luckily it worked out. But that
one is is definitely, I would like risky, I think,
is how I would felt. I felt about that one
when it rains it poors. Yeah, man, I mean just
I mean, I just think that's probably my It just
makes me happy when I hear that song. Man. You know,

(19:30):
I remember shooting the video and and uh and Charleston
and and uh you know me and my uh you know,
now fiance had had just really got into the throes
of our relationship at that time, and it was just
really fun. That was just a really fun time for me.
You know, that song brings back a lot of of
really cool fun memories for me. Right number four here

(19:54):
she got the best of me. Why did you up
right there? What what happened up there? Was? As I mean,
it's just that's full It's like full circle is the
word I would use. Because I wrote that song in college. Um,
I wrote it here in Nashville, but it was on
one of my trips and it just the way it
all came together was, um, you know, I wrote it

(20:16):
with Rob Snyder and Channing Wilson h at that time
they were both you know, doing the revival thing together
at Tin Roof and um, a buddy of mine that
I went to Nashville with had you know, kind of
walked up to those guys and was like, hey, let's
write a song thing, and and so they were like sure, man,
you know, we're in town for a couple of days.
And they're like, oh, well, we can write tomorrow or whatever.

(20:36):
Me and my buddy got just super drunk that night
at the Tin Roof and and you know, we played
revival that night and um, and so he called me
in the morning and was like, hey, man, like, I'm
too hungover to go to this right, will you go instead?
And I was like sure, man, like I'll go right
with these, you know, two complete stranger guys, you know.

(20:59):
And so I went over to Rob's apartment. Me and
Rob were kind of sitting there writing and this. I mean,
Rob and Channing are both like big dudes. They're both
taller than me. They're both even broader than I am.
And and Channing walks out in this like bath towel,
you know, he's got his long hair and his big
beard and everything. And Rob was like, dude, come come
get on this song with us, manhol come write this

(21:21):
song with us. And he was like, man, I'm not
feeling it, you know, and he said, we'll play. He said, dude,
just just play him something. So I played night Moves
on my guitar by Seeger and He's like, yeah, I'll
come right with you, guys. And then so we wrote
we wrote she Got the Best of Me that day, uh,
And I ended up recording it uh in college when

(21:42):
I'm still in college, putting it out, And then when
it came time to record the deluxe version of the album,
you know, Lynn was like, this song is just great
and your fans love it at the shows and and
I really think it deserves a chance to you know,
to be recorded with the proper equipment and the proper
proper band, and and to shot at being a single one.
So it was definitely a full circle experience for that one,

(22:04):
beautiful crazy. I mean definitely, my fiance comes to mind
more than anything. Um, and that song really just changed
a lot for me. I mean it was seven week
number one, which is crazy. I want to never imagine
that that that to you, that song to me put
you on a hold different like it's you have to

(22:25):
have a massive song to actually make the jump. You
can have eleven number one and sometimes you don't make
the jump. But if you get that one definer, you
can make a jump. I think for you, that's when
it launched you up. And that's what I was thinking,
is this is the one that took us from like
I mean, we had four number ones and things were awesome,
and then it was all of a sudden, it was
like next, it was the next gear after that song,

(22:46):
you know. And you know, I think of obviously winning
the Song of the year uh here recently, and you know,
all the accolades and and and and things. There's so
many really positive, you know memories. I mean, I wouldn't
be you know, I probably, I mean I would like
to think I would still be with my fiance without
that song. But I mean, this is the song that

(23:06):
I played for her, you know, after we weren't even
officially dating yet when I wrote this song about her,
and I remember playing it for like two days after
I wrote it, and I was like so nervous right
there because I was like, man, what if she thinks
I'm just a total creep? Like you know, because it
was like, I mean, we're hanging out. We were hanging
out a good amount at that time, but it was

(23:27):
still like, man, it was such a risk in my
mind like to play her that. What did she do?
She was working at b M. I no, what did
she do when you played the song? Did she get
emotional or did she? Well? I I played it smart
because her one of her friends was there, and so
I had actually bought her a record player as a gift,
like a Crosley record player with like the legs and

(23:49):
like its own little speaker and stuff, and so I
it had an OX cord jack, and I plugged my
phone in and played the work tape and her friend
was in there, and her friend was like, oh my god,
like this is just wow, you know. And so I
was like, I know, if I can like hook the
friend and the friend thinks it's sweet, she at least
has to pretend like she likes it so that I'm

(24:11):
not in this awkward situation where both like, well, we'll
just stop hanging out now, because do you think I'm
super weird? So it was she, but no, she loved it.
And I mean she obviously loves that tune. All right,
Bear never broke my heart. I can't just feel the
live show on that one. Yeah, I mean, it's just

(24:34):
like it just feels like, you know, it just feel
like I can imagine what the environment would have been
like in an A C. D C concert, you know,
like and not that that song sounds anything like an
A C d C song, but it's the most rock
and the thing that we have. You know. It has
those heavy, like chugging guitars and and just it just
feels like an arena rock like anthem song. And that's

(24:57):
what it feels like every time we play it. And
I think that song, you know, if Beautiful Crazy was important,
I think beers just as important because we followed Beautiful
Crazy up, which was this very vulnerable, like low you know,
finnel like violin kind of acoustic thing, and then it

(25:18):
just polar opposite is this song. And and this song.
You know, I think this gave us a jump too,
because you know, a lot of and like you said,
we did have hits, but a lot of the hits
were kind of like mid tempo e like there wasn't
that like kick you in the teeth thing in the set,
and I think that song brought that to the table
for us. And the last one before we go, even

(25:39):
though I'm leaving seven number one in a row as
we record this right now, this is the one multi
week number one when you wrote this, how do you feel?
I've man, this was like crazy, right. So actually one
of the guys I wrote Beautiful Crazy with White dirette Um.
This was the first song that we wrote together, uh

(26:01):
and me and him and and a good friend of
ours Rave Fulture wrote this together and it was one
of those things like I love to get into a
rite and just not go until I feel like it's perfect,
and I feel like sometimes the Nashville environment can be
We got three hours, We're walking out with a song.

(26:22):
I don't care if it's terrible. I don't care if
it's the best song that anybody's ever written. I just
want to get it done and turn into my publisher
and get on with my life. You know, which is
great if that's what you want to do. And I
understand that, and I enjoy that sometimes too, But I
have to go into it with a different thing because

(26:42):
I'm writing it as something that could potentially be a
humongous part of my life forever. You know, that song
is never gonna go away. It's never not gonna have
been a number one. I'm never not gonna play it
every night, And so I love to go in and
make sure that if I'm going to record something and
I'm gonna put it out there for people, that it's
something that has the stamp of approval. And so that

(27:04):
was a right that took probably eight hours, seven or
eight hours and one day. And we were in the
little like um, we were in like the little office
rooms at Southern Ground in the studio. We weren't in
the studio, but there's a little spot next door where
there's like, you know, just a little fluorescent bulb like offices.

(27:27):
And why it's son at that time was you know,
getting ready to you know, he was getting to the
age where he was going to be graduating from high
school very soon. And that was his only a child
at that time. And um, he was like, man, I
want to write my son a song and let him
know that I'm gonna be there for him no matter what,

(27:47):
you know, like just because he's not living at home,
he doesn't I don't want him to feel like he
can't still call me, or he can't still you know,
be my son or ask for help if he needs it.
And so that's how that song started. Uh and and uh, man,
we had trouble getting through it. You know, I'm lucky
enough to still have my my parents in my life,
and so I haven't you know, had to deal with that,

(28:09):
you know, horrible day yet. But we were all, you know,
very emotional, like you didn't sing in the work tape.
I got a little choked up, and I was like, man,
this is like and I knew, like, if that's happening
to me, like that's going to happen to a lot
of people with that song. So um, that song is
just you know, it's it's really powerful for a lot
of folks. Dave Heywood of Lady A on how their

(28:36):
first number one, I Run to You in two thousand
nine started with a poem written by Tom Douglas. That
first number one lead to Need You Now, which became
their first crossover hit, I Run to You. It was
on the first second a lot yet even though it's

(28:58):
from the first record, and listen to those lyrics in
our society today, Tom Douglas. Tom Douglas sat in that
chair and blo did he come here? He talked about
you guys really yeah, and gathering around the piano. Yeah,
he's got a beautiful little farm and our beautiful home mountain.
You know, Franklin or whatever, and just an old piano

(29:20):
and he's such a poet. It's just so artistic. I'm like,
I like want to be him. I would fangirl him
just even though we've written with him a dozen times,
Like I would fan girl him just about everything. Yeah,
I've been lucky enough to sit next to some really
mind blowing lye awesome people that I only appreciate way
later because in the moment, And that's gotta be like

(29:40):
that with you at times too. You're doing this big
in the moment, you're just trying to get through it
and not suck and go back at it and go Yeah,
that was awesome. It was so cool. That was a
poem which we told that story, but our bass player
jokes us about that a lot, but it was. It
was a poem time it'd written called I Run to You,
and it was just all these things that he runs from, pest,
this and prejudice. He was like running. He was like

(30:03):
actually running, I think maybe the Music City Marathon, but
he had all these visions of things that you run from.
I mean, how deep is that? You know? Like I
mean it's like, like, why can't I think of that
kind of stuff. He's just that kind of guy and
has lived a lot of great life and and had,
you know, his ups and downs that he writes and
shares about. But yeah, that started with a poem and
we basically took his poem and kind of put music

(30:24):
to it, and then we got into it so right.
And for the next record, we had a writing compointment
with Josh Kire and we never written with him before,
but he had written before he cheats for carry Underwood,
and Uh. We went in there and wrote one song
first for about an hour and it was kind of quick,
and I just didn't feel like a good song. Um,

(30:46):
it was a quick right he had had Um, he
had had like half of it done. It was a
song called young Love, and it just didn't feel like us.
It didn't feel like us. And we finished it and
I was like yeah, and then it was like one
of those things. Charles was like, why don't we just
day and write another song? And I was like, I mean,
we're all single and nothing to do. I was like,
sounds great, I'm here. So we started writing another song

(31:07):
and um, Charles had some melodies on the guitar. He
had just started playing guitar. Actually and learned a few
chords on the acoustics, so he came up with some
of the melody on the verse D D D no
no um, and then we kind of just sailed off
from there and you know, we wrote it really quick.
I'd say in an hour as well. Needs You Now

(31:29):
happen fast, some of the some songs take like six
hours or a few days or a couple of writing sessions.
Needs You Now was quick. I Run to You was
pretty quick. You finished Needs You Now. And it's just
a song. It's just a song. I didn't think it would.
We sat on it for probably eight months, just sitting
in our iTunes playlist and our very last label meeting

(31:49):
to cut with Paul Worley for that Needs You Now record,
which it was not obviously titled inn Um I remember,
and again it's just a beautiful testament. I think Charles
and his memory and his passion and ear from music,
He was like, what about that remember that song we
wrote Josh here that day. You know, it's kind of
like it sounds just like it'd be a cool album track,
you know, kind of one of those like kind of

(32:11):
insider songs that like people just love the vibe you know,
it's it could probably have like a cool vibe. Um,
what if we you know, in the the acoustic demo,
I want to play you some of that. I mean,
the acoustic demo is just we're fumbling all over the melody,
you know, it's like he messes up a lyric and
it was just all over the place. The acoustic demo
was really just it was just a voice in them

(32:32):
from our phone, and so it sounded really rough. But
we were like a couple of people in the room
Autumn House, Mike Dungan Um, they all kind of perked
up there like that could be kind of cool. Why
don't you guys try that? And so still we didn't
know what was happening. We got in the studio and
recorded it, and I think once we got in there
and Paul Worley got his hands on it, he made
so the piano part, Mike Rojas was tinkering around, you

(32:54):
know when you're warming up in the studio, and he
started to kind of do that on the outro of
the song, and we were like, man, do that on
the intro. That's like a hook. That sounds like one
of those big hooks. The baseline, this guy named Craig
Young play that Paul Worley got. I could geek out
on these guys names for for for hours. But um,
some of the bass playing, piano playing guitar, I mean

(33:15):
me and Paul played about twenty acoustic guitars on that song.
So when it gets to the chorus on the song, acoustics,
So this is an old Um, I won't go down
this tangent forever. This is an old Crosby Stills in
Nash and Young trick that Paul Worley knew where you
kind of if you have like up to twenty to
thirty acoustics, that makes it feel like the whole song

(33:36):
chugs along really like it's like a wall of sound, right,
So if you notice on the course there's just this jinging, jinginginging,
straight kind of thing. And that's about acoustics in the background.
I mean, it's not the same. If you want to
to in today's world, you could just duplicate him. Yeah,
But to have different guitars with different woods and different

(33:57):
strings from different eras in different times, all surrounding in stereo,
different guitars all playing, and you know, Paul plays a
little different than I play, and I play a little
different and finger some of the chords differently with different voicings,
but just those little nuances on the track. When Paul
worly got and and dug in with that song, I mean,
I gotta give it to micro Haas. The piano stuff

(34:19):
is amazing on that song, and I gotta give it
to Paul worly Man. He is such a champion for
great art and he takes his time with it, and
that can be hard with patients and studio because we
all want to just pump out a track in one day.
But Paul will sit on it and work on it
and work on it, and then two months later you're like, wow,
this thing sounds timeless. So you write it and you

(34:40):
think it's a song. Then it's sitting there and you
think this is a song. Cut it. When do you
realize that it could be special? Um? Once we cut
it and we started showing it to people, so we
recorded it and we started playing it for you know,
our friends. Um. I mean I wasn't married at the time.
I wouldn't say my I put friends and people at

(35:02):
the label and management and they're like, man, that's like
that could be really a crazy cool kind of first single, um,
and we're like, no, we need to have a tempo.
Isn't that what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to
have like the rock and tempo is your first song.
And they were like, man, it just just feels like
a piece of art. It feels like art. And we
were all about it. We just thought it would be
the album track. But we were all about it. I

(35:23):
mean it was. It was all of our favorite song
that we had recorded for the Needs You Now for
that record. Derek's Bentley talked about his first number one
What Was I Thinking, which happened all the way back
in two thousand three. He told the story of how
he didn't even want this song to be his first single.
He originally wanted a different song, I Wish You Would
Break to be his first single, but it worked out
for him obviously because what was I thinking? It was

(35:46):
a massive song? Still is I have some songs here?
Oh man, it's play some other stuff? How about this
one right here? Put that cross my mind a little too,
because that was text first thought that comes when you
hear this up here. Weaver great songwriter here in town,
and really without Bread, I wouldn't have anything he Um
really took me under his wing as a writer, and

(36:07):
I learned so much from Bread about writing. And this
was back when, like when we had like the shoe
box tape recorders, you know, and and pen and paper,
and he thought I had to write. One of the
things he thought was just you think out loud on paper,
don't talk the whole time when you're writing songs, or
somebody just could work on something when you've got an idea. Maybe.
But I remember playing that for Autumn House, who was

(36:28):
an a R at a Capital. I found her outside
exit and I got my guitar, ran out to her
the exit in she came out of there. I sat
her down on my tailgate played her to that song acoustically.
I was going to the studio the next day, and
she's like, cut that song. That's great song. So you
run out to some prominent person here in town, say hey,
stop and have her watch you sing a song. She
was a and R. She still is over Capitol Records
and uh and I she was in the club, I

(36:49):
think exited and hearing listen to somebody. I texted her
text or I called her and she met me outside
and I played it for acoustically like outside the club,
and because I thought it was it could be a hit.
Oddly enough, I fought really hard that not to be
the first single, So what did you want to be?
The first song called Wish It Would Break, which is
more of a country thing. Um, you know, it's about

(37:10):
your wishing your your car stereoid break because every song
plays your mind of your girl wistening. This picture frame
would break, that keeps falling down, but you don't have
the heart to throw it away because it's the pictures
of two y'all. In the last verse is about wishing
your heart breaks, you just move on. It's a great song.
And I wrote that with Brett but Duncan Mike Dungan
from capitals like, we're going with those again, so and
you're glad it didn't. Yeah, all right, here we go,

(37:32):
come a little close. What makes me? Might hear that song?
Makes me think Chesney? I wrote that Brett Beavers, but
Chesney said that was a song that Um, when you
heard that come in the radio, that's the reason why
you take me back out on the road, man, and
you do so many Hey people do this to me too,
But I haven't heard that. I want to play this
song a love anymore. So I love hearing that in

(37:53):
a great song, you don't play you're talking it's a
little slow. Can you stay a little slow because you
feel like it takes the crowd down. You know, you
gotta make a rollercoaster out there when you're you gotta
find a way to take people on the ride. And
you can only have you gotta pick your you know,
our show is so high energy, and that's but what
makes this show great is what makes those high energy
songs work is the real moments and and and that

(38:15):
that you can only have so many in that song.
Just there's just no room for that one right now?
All right, how about this one man's part of my
favorite songs? Another song. I don't do the live show anymore,
but I do it usually earlier than night in acoustic show.
But uh, when I think of that video, and I

(38:35):
think that signed to the video port because there's a
scene where I'm getting rained on by the rain machine
and there but you can tell us nother rain like
anywhere else just coming on. It's like the cartoon whenever.
It's such a great video, there's just that one moment
because you know, if you're you care so much about
the work you do, You're like that one scene drives
you crazy. But Chris Stick, you do that video. It's

(38:56):
actually when the best videos we ever did. And uh,
that song is um. I love that song and it's
one of my favorite songs. But I usually do it.
I do a pre show acoustic performance for some folks.
I usually I'm doing that song a song. I wrote
that song and launched it blown the same day with
Brett Pevers and running Steve bogartan. Uh, you know, it's

(39:20):
a great song. I would say it's one of the
songs that it could say more. I mean, if that
was it, you know it was. It was a number one,
but it wasn't like a that was a lead single
off an album, and it just wouldn't do much. People
still love that song. I still do it live, but
I used that song for a lot of video content
of like our life on the Road. But that's a

(39:42):
song that, if I'm being totally honest and critiquing myself,
I just didn't say enough. You know. The verses need
to be more specific and more biting and more personal
and more um telling who you are or the story
you're trying to tell and just not so um interchangeable,
so that that I love that song, but that I

(40:02):
was listening to. That's one thing every song you put
out I put up in this one on has to
be like say, something really impact four or you know,
every line has to be just Perke Maddie and Tay
on their first number one, which was a Girl in
a Country Song, and how quickly their life got very crazy.

(40:26):
They talked about how things moved so fast and they
didn't even realize what was happening in the moment, and
they thought that having a smash number one was just
normal because it happened so fast. Tell me about this song,
so you guys kind of come on and you do
a Girl in the Country song? Played a little bit
Girl in the Country song? You guys still like the song?
I do? It's I was trying to think about how

(40:47):
many times we've played it, Like it's only been four years.
I mean, that's still a long time, But like I
was like, I wonder how many times, Like I would
be curious to know the number of thousands. With radio
tour doing like three shows a day for a year
and a half, we gotta be in that in the
thousand brackets somehow easily a thousand. Yeah, I would think
easily a thousand. But this song, so it was kind

(41:10):
of a rocket ship for you guys, at least from
my side of it. It was like and I kind
of just started too, you know, I just moved from
the world and I come over and I'm, you know,
the guy that's and everybody hates me because I'm so different,
and they're like ah, and I'm like, oh good, these
girls are different too, and you guys come in and
first of all, you're really good, but there there's a
novelty to this song too at the same thing. And

(41:32):
so but it was just like the video was like splash,
like here you are. And yeah, I watched that video recently,
like for the first time in years, and I was like,
I haven't we were some ballsy eighteen year old girls,
Like whoa. I guess I did not realize how big
of a deal this song was until like going through

(41:54):
what we've been through the past couple of years, and
I was like, you know what, like this is not
gonna happen, but if God forbid, everything like just like
fell apart or whatever, because I mean it has for us,
you know, last year. But if all of that happened
over again, at least like we said something like we
said something that was important and needed to be said,
and we would love to keep doing that obviously, but um,

(42:16):
just watching that bag, Oh my gosh, like we we're fearless?
How did that happen? This song comes out though, and
it sens it's your first song. Do you guys think
that's normal? Like was that norm? Was it? Like this
is oh, this is how it's done. We have a
song or a bit where you're like, whoa this is
It's kind of hard to compare it to something you've

(42:38):
never had something else that was That was the issue,
if I can say issue, It really wasn't an issue
because it was a blessing and it got us to
where we are now. But if there's anything the con
to that was just being so green and almost like
I mean, we were a baby artist. We like you said,
we had nothing to compare it to, and so our
whole team the entire time Girl was rising up the

(42:59):
charts and doing all these milestones. It was like they said,
this isn't normal. You're not. You're gonna have to work
much much harder on your next single. And they were
trying to warn us, but we still didn't have that
experience in our in our back pocket to kind of
draw from. So for us in a way at the time,
it was normal, which is crazy to think back and
look at, like I wish I would have had more

(43:21):
experience so I could cherish those moments more and not
just like like stop and smell the roses first, Like
even though it sounds so cliche, like I don't remember
a lot of that because it was just like onto
the next day, Okay, you did the Today's Show as
your first full band show. Great, Okay, let's go do
it again. It found like it was just nuts and
I'm like, I don't know how we did all that,
but um, I'm kind of glad that we were so

(43:43):
like green and like um just and it were fearless
because we would do anything like now we know better,
like don't play three shows in one day. You're gonna
wear yourself out and it's gonna mess you up. Like
don't do that, like you know, just stuff like that.
Or don't fly from Orlando to New York back to
Orlando in one day and do three shows. That's not
a good idea. Just just say no. Sometimes you have

(44:04):
to say no to things. But I'm glad that it
happened then, and it kind of gives us I don't know,
it gives us perspective on like we have done before.
It's not going to be as easy this next go round.
But it did it a little backwards. I sometimes I
wish it was slipped, but it's okay. So that song

(44:25):
did it hit one? Okay? So it goes to number one,
and what's the next single after that? Fly? Okay? So
Fly comes out and doesn't go number one. It was
a number seven, but it impacted really well, which was
kind of cool. Yeah, we knew the the hardness of
what was to come with that song too, and it

(44:45):
was a ballad. If it were in the summer, they're
all these rules. But so this song comes out. I
love you the song by the way about I'm only
asking this backward, but it doesn't go number one. So
you've had a number one, then you have one that
does go number one? What do you think after that?
I was really happy because people were The way I

(45:06):
measured it personally was how people were singing back when
we were on stage and they were singing Fly. And
still do just as loud as girl. So to me
that was a number one song, like maybe not on
the charts, but from for our fans and for my spirit,
I was like, we landed another one. Joe Diffy talked

(45:27):
about his debut single Home going number one back. He
also shared stories behind his other big hits like John
dere Green, which oddly never went number one and is
such a massive song from Joe Diffy. Here is Joe Diffy,
rest in peace? Joe, what song of yours? When you
play it gets the biggest response? And you know what's
funny about that it was not a number one song,

(45:49):
And it's you know, I talked with a lot of
young artists now and they're like, I just want that
number one, Like I get it, you do. But and
and in Keith Or and I have talked about this
where his a lot of his songs weren't number one
and then we were to have you know, of course
back in those days, I mean there were several over
like four or five different charts, so I think it
did go number one and one of them I don't

(46:10):
know which one, but but yeah, uh that's always that
is a strange phenomena. Some of your some songs that
do go number one don't sell as as well, etcetery.
You know. So for me when I think about your music,
like my favorite song has propped me out, and that
was not a number one song on the on the
radio chart. I mean when I think, Joe Diffy, this

(46:31):
is the song for man. Know every word. I remember
when it came out. I bought the CD and I
memorized every word so I could sing all of I
did that and third Rock because the third rock is
a little harder, the words are a lot faster. But this,
this is the song for me that if someone's like,
what your favorite A matter of fact, when you came in,
I was like, Joe, you gotta play problem me up?
And you did. And again is it peaked a number

(46:54):
three on the radio chart. It's weird. There's a big
record from the video though for this song. Is what
I really remember from this song as well, because back
in the day we used to really watch CMT from
music video right a lot. Yeah, all you know what
I remember about the video mostly filming the video. It
was so hot, man, it was, and they had this
these buckets of like Sea bree member Sea Breeze. It

(47:15):
was kind of like a facial cleanser or some kind
of deal. And it was like but it had like
an aromatic kind of effect and they were dabbing all
of us with it stuff. You know that's judge member
was so hot and and plus the dead guy. Yeah,
it was so funny. Man, I mean that that that
to me is those two songs. And again as I
started deep diving, and I was like, man, my favorite

(47:36):
two songs number five and a number three. And you
say that John der Green gets the biggest. When you
do your set list, what do you start with? What's
the first song? A third Rock from the sun? You
come out of high energy, huh, Which this wasn't number
one song for you? Yeah, I just would have a
problem going out and doing the fast up quick cause
I'd be had of breath for the next three songs.
That has happened, like especially I said where it happened

(47:59):
to me a lot as if I'm you know, on
the opry for some reason makes you nervous, and boy,
if you ever get backwards during your breathing in that song,
you're screwed. I mean it's it's over, you know. Tell
me about this song third Rock? So you heard it
were you like, what's this about? Like? What? Um? I
always thought it was like a little mini movie, you know,

(48:19):
which I heard a lot of songwriters say, you try
to dude, right, I try to write a little three
minute movie, you know. But honestly, this was one that
I mean, even though I liked it, they there was
the same Polisher had played two different songs for us,
and uh and I like the other one better actually,
and so uh you know. So anyway I ended up

(48:39):
getting both of them. Had to do to the Wheeland
and dealing some some guy apparently that I don't know.
I can't verify this, but I was told this. Garth
Brooks wanted third rock as well. So and how did
you get third rock? And what was the wheel? We
cut both? We would do both of their songs. Do
you know what the other song was? It was called

(49:00):
uh something? But if you're having to think, I guess
it really was. Never There was never a single. Yeah,
did you put it on the record? Yeah, it's on there.
I'm gonna run through your number one's real quick. Let's
do home. Yeah, your first debut is that right? First
song out and you go number one for six, number

(49:21):
one six in a Row. So do you think after
let's say two or three, do you have a figured out? Um?
You know what I felt like? Such I was. I
felt a little bit like a rube. I was so
naive about the whole process. I mean even though I
kind of knew. I kind of knew about stuff. But man,
when you know when you get it, when you when
you start off like what I did. I mean, I

(49:41):
was on the road three hundred days of a year,
and so I didn't really have time to think about stuff.
I was busy, you know, traveling and doing shows and
me doing meet and greets and all that stuff. You know,
So what brought you to Nashville? Meaning I know the music,
I know that the thought of country music. But there's
always something where something you get that push or you

(50:03):
can kind of the itch. Well, I got laid off
from my job I had. I was working on a
foundry back in Duncan, Oklahoma, and they shut the plant down,
laid us all off, and you know, and I've been
singing a little VFWS and twenty moved. I moved to
Nasville when I also a little bit older, Yeah, compared

(50:24):
to like the nineteen two years are moving here now? Exactly,
so you get laid off, yeah, and I said, And
I had been to Nashville once before with my aunt
and a friend of mine. We had we we did
this little thing as a trio and we came in
and my aunt had known somebody here in Nashville, and
so anyway, we met with him, and I spent in
love with the city then. But I didn't have the

(50:45):
opportunity because I still had a job at the time,
you know. But when I got to laid off, I
was like, well, you know what, I think, I'm just
gonna try it. So I just loaded up everything I
could get in this whole beat up car I had,
and off I went. So at home, you know, you're
you're playing around bar? Are you playing on bars at
home at all? Not a lot, Honestly. My background was
more of a I sang in a gospel group then

(51:07):
I then I went from that to a bluegrass group.
I played bluegrass for six years with this group called
the Special Edition. Were you known as the guy that
was doing music while working at the plant by your workers? Yeah?
Are your co workers? Yeah? They'd always ask me to sing,
you know, would you ever sing at work? I don't
remember gather them around and be like, all right, boys, yeah,
I mean it just they sing that song, you know whatever.

(51:29):
Isn't it funny how the things at the time that
seemed this happened over my career in my life too.
We're really I put finger quotes up. Unfortunate things that
happened to us turn out to really be blessing, dude, blessing,
the biggest blessing ever. Yeah, because if I hadn't got
laid off, I probably would have never left there. You know.
So when you get laid off, do you remember how
that happened? Did you did your your boss your form
and come in and go all right, you're done? No,

(51:50):
it was just more of a I got a phone call,
I think, and they said, yeah, playing shut down, don't
go out there. And then immediately do you go? All right?
Time to go to Nashville? Like was it kind of
in the chamber already? Know? It took a took a
couple of months, you know, drawing unemployment, and I thought, well,
you know, I might as well think of something. I
had a good friend of mine and we used to

(52:12):
discuss thing he wanted. He moved to Dallas and became
an accountant, and you know, and that's what I want
to he said. Yet, you know, you gotta try music.
You're really good at it and all that stuff. So
and when you got to town, did you feel like
you were good enough to get in the mix immediately? Um?
I just felt really lost, honestly when I first got
to town, because I just gotten divorced and I missed

(52:33):
my kids and you know, and I was just in
this new place and I didn't have a place to live,
and you know, and all this kind of stuff. Would
you do what you I finally moved in with a
with a musician, a guy named David Greer, and we
we rented a house with no heater and for for
about a year. And what are you doing when you
first moved to Nashville? Meaning are you out trying to

(52:53):
meet people? Play right around? Like? What what what happens
with the new artists? With me? I was trying I
needed to man count. So I got a job. I
knew a guy that worked at Gifts and Guitars, and
so they hired me out there too to work in
the warehouse shipping guitars everywhere. So and then after that
I would just do whatever I could. I'd go to
two showcases and you know, just go hang out, just

(53:17):
just to get my get out there and meet people.
You know, it's so interesting to hear about because, like
I know, you was the country music legend. But I
love hearing like the origin story of the hustle because
I think so many people don't know that there's a
hustle for everyone. Man, I tell you what there was.
There was days seriously, Uh you know, we didn't have
anything in the house to eat. I mean nothing. One

(53:37):
time I had I think I had like I don't know,
seventy five cents on me and I went by this
funniest thing ever. I didn't know they didn't have white
castles in the duncan. So I saw instead of Hamburgers,
I thought, oh, yeah, I've got I can you know?
So I stopped. Yeah, so I know, I said the
guys canna help you? I said, I like a Hamburger police.

(53:57):
He goes, uh, just one. I said, yeah, I didn't
know they were, you know, tiny Hardy on his first
number one one beer. That's his first number one as
an artist. He had Lauren Alena and Devin Dawson on it.
He also talked about his first number one as a
songwriter Up Down, which he wrote for Morgan Wallen and

(54:21):
how was the first time he made any money writing songs. Yeah,
let me play this first. Here is one beer on
the record. This hits slightly different than the rest of

(54:42):
the songs. So whenever this was decided to go to
you know, radio, conventional radio, was someone really pushing that
and it was like, Wow, we can't believe we're gonna
do this or was that kind of the consensus to
go with that song? Yeah, it was just the internet.
It was data of it stood, I mean as oddly
enough to It was on Hicks tape. It wasn't even
originally on my um My Rock, my actual record. It

(55:06):
was a Higgs tape song. And of all the songs,
we knew we were probably gonna do a single from
Higgs tape and Seth England kept saying like, dude, it's
gonna be one beer you just watch and I was like, okay,
and uh, sure enough, I mean exponentially beat everything else
on the record. And and I've always been uh I
say always, I've only been doing this a couple of years.

(55:28):
But like anything that I cut, I would be willing
to do to have as a single. So whatever that they,
you know, say, is blowing up on you know whatever Internet,
any app or whatever, I'm good to go with. So
I just said, let's let's do it. I know it's different,
but go for it. There's only ever been one of
the persons and say that in that way to me

(55:49):
when when doing these long form conversations, and he said,
you know what, I write almost all my stuff, not
a love of these. I'll take a couple of songs
that that I don't write because I'm a songwriter and
I appreciate songwriters. And he said, but if I cut it,
I just go, it's good enough to put out. So
you decide, because I wouldn't cut it if I didn't
think it was good. And that that was Chris Stapleton. Ye,
who goes, I cut it. I gotta believe in it,

(56:10):
so label you take it and do what you're good at,
because I already did what I'm good at. That's how
I feel pretty much exactly the same. I'm cool with anything.
And I know there's kind of a whole spectrum of
of sonically of of stuff that I put out, but
I'm cool with anything going out there. Your first money
making song was up Down. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was that.

(56:31):
The first song that ever got cut. No, my first
cut was, but that was actually so I sold two cuts.
Up Down was on my old deal. Um I should
go to Church sometime by Tyler Farr. Oh yeah, that
was my first cut and it was my first single
and died like in the sixties. I remember it. Yeah, yeah,
but still exciting to get that first single when you

(56:52):
get the call and they go, hey, it's a single.
Are you pumped? Yeah, oh dude, yeah, I mean I
thought it was gonna be rich. Not that that's why
I do it, but um, yeah I was. Yeah, I
mean that's yeah, it's a it's a huge milestone and
and and uh, you know, just a confidence booster and
it's like you are doing this and somebody legitimate cut
your song, and yeah, it's it was. It was all
the wind and the sales I think that I needed.

(57:14):
And then after that everything just kind of started happening,
which is everybody says like you get one and you
get X amount or whatever. And I've seen that happen
with a ton of my friends too. It's just funny
how that works. So as much wind gets put in
your sales when they say, hey, it's gonna be a single,
did as much get taken out when it didn't hit, Yes,
but up Down kind of cross faded with that, so

(57:36):
I had a little hope there. Um, But around the
time it died was when Morgen cut it, so we
just still didn't know and he had only had the
way I talked, um, So it's hard to you know,
really gauge that, but um, yeah, it was a good
It was enough cross fade for me to not like
be super down and think maybe that was my shot.

(57:56):
There had to be too a bit of excitement whenever
it's not only Morrigan who who at the time was
an unknown artist on a label who had no history
at all, not even if success or not success, but
no history, big lad of no history. But then when
fgl gets on the song, you gotta go, oh man,
I got another bullet for the gun inside of the song. Yeah,

(58:16):
it was a huge um booster for him, and that
was kind of a sigh of relief for you. I'm saying,
like to write a song, you know, I f GL
is on the song It's not Gonna die at sixty Uh. Yeah,
And that was that was kind of the Okay, this
is gonna be a hit. There's no way it's not
gonna be a hit, and uh, that was definitely a

(58:36):
huge thing for all of that. That was all me,
Brad Clawson and c J. Soler was our first really
a few of our first cut or maybe minding somebody
else's like first or second cut, and our first hit
together too, So it was good for all of us.
Let me play this here is Morgan walling up, down down, Damn,

(58:56):
We're down. You mentioned Brad Lawson. So when I heard
about you the songwriter about to start turning into you
the artist, it was from Nicole Galley and who's a friend,
and she was like, yeah, hard he's he's gonna try
to be an artist. And I didn't know who you were.
I just yeah, nobody did. If She was talking about

(59:18):
the songs she'd written, and she was like, I don't know,
I tried that. You know, because a lot of songwriters
in town have either tried and it was unsuccessful and
not a good experience, or they just don't want to
do it. Yeah, you see all their friends do it
and they're like, I don't know a by that, you
never have someone who's a songwriter who hits it big
for a couple of songs, it goes, you know what,
I'm good. I don't want to do it. It's never
that way. So you know if with the songwriter mostly

(59:40):
they're they're like, I don't know, I want to live
the artist lifestyle. But for you, was I always kind
of the goal on the No, it was not. When
I was in college, like I kind of wanted to.
And then I signed a pub deal and I was
just like, this is awesome, and all I gotta do
is write a song every day. And and uh no
I had, I had. I had reached to the point

(01:00:00):
where I had zero intentions of being an artist or
at least like signing a record deal and like doing
the thing. I might have had aspirations to put music
out or something, but no, I had no. I had
no plans to to do it. Tracy Lawrence talked about
his debut single Sticks and Stones, going number one in

(01:00:21):
but how one of his most famous songs, pay Me
a Birmingham, never went number one. Here is Sticks and Stones.
So when this song starts to get some traction, you're
a brand new artist. I mean, is the record label

(01:00:43):
like we knew it we knew you are a guy
like are you treated differently? Rick Blackburn didn't believe in
that song. Elroy Kahanak, who found me up in Days
Will Kentucky, believe in that song. He literally got in
his car. He was the head of promotions in Atlantic
and he would drive all over the place and bring
pets out and stick him in the car in the
parking lot and make him listen to it. L Reconne
made that a hit. He shived it down everybody's throat.

(01:01:06):
But it was so different when it came on the radio.
There was nothing else that was like it. And that
was the thing that that change in musical style when
I was trying to figure out and the summer of
ninety when I was living in Louisiana, what do I
need to do? Because you gotta think about all the
stuff that would happen had that happened. In eighty nine,
you had Alan Jackson that came out, Mark Chestnut, Vince
gil Uh, Garth Brooks as all this new music, this

(01:01:30):
new sound that was happening, and it was exciting back then,
and I was like, I've got to go be a
part of that. I've got to be gona be a
part of it now. So when I got the shot
to cut my record and James Stroud and I were
put together and all the wheel started turning on that
kind of stuff. I mean, James had cut that first
record on Clinton Black, so I was with part of
that new sound that was making that change in country music.

(01:01:50):
That's when the young country slogan, that whole thing just
exploded out of Nashville. It was it was awesome time.
Did you get any pushback since your sound was different
and every kind of different generation gets a pushback, was
there any there? You know? I never felt it personally
towards me, and I know a lot of the older guys.
I heard the Whalens and the haggard grumbling underneath the surface,

(01:02:13):
you know that they weren' getting there to play on
the radio anymore. And there was there was not It
was not a there's not a love a lot of
love toward us from those guys early on. I think
it kind of eased up as time went on. But
the one person that I never felt that from was
George Jones. Never uh. And you know, George and Nancy
they found a way to embrace that change, and so

(01:02:33):
they just they gathered us all up and made us
part of I don't need no rocking chair and all
that stuff, and he I went on tour with Jones,
so it was it was. It was a great time.
But George, they just approached it from a different perspective.
But yeah, there was there was some pushback. But you know,
these guys have been getting there and played for thirty
plus years, and then all of a sudden, all these
young kids are coming in town, the music change and

(01:02:54):
taking over, and they're not getting airplay anymore. They're they're
a little bit better at times. It's funny you bring
up I don't need your rock and ship. I mean
that to me. I can remember singing that, and I
George Jones was a bit before me. As I got older,
I started to listen to more George Jones because I
love the format. I wanted to learn as much about
county music as I could. But when that song came out,
I remember all you guys being on that song. I mean,

(01:03:15):
it was every country superstar I could have ever imagined
on that song with him and the ones of us
that weren't on it. I didn't get to sing on
the record, but I got to do it every now
at the confer there were so many. I was looking
at um the c m A s or that song
was nominated for a c m A and it was
just like seventeen people on that song, and I thought
it was so cool because every all those people love

(01:03:35):
George Jones. Respected George Jones. They did, But do you
know what, how could you not respect George? Look at
look at what he had been through. He lived alive.
I mean he survived himself and uh and and lived
to a place where he was able to still be
relevant in a time where the music business was changing
all around. You gotta have a lot of respect for that.

(01:03:56):
That first number one was now We're There. Single that
happened after that that did not hit his heart. Six
and Stones hit hard, uh, the couple of big ones
off that record. So Sticks and Stones, the four off
that album were Sticks and Stones. Today's Lonely Fool running
behind that were number ones, and then Somebody Paints the
Wall was a top five, So we had three number
ones on top five. And now as we progressed into Alibis,

(01:04:19):
which was my second release, we had four number ones
off of it. But there was some friction there because
I was wanting to grow. By this time, Indian Outlaw
had popped and I was wanting to do a heavier
guitar sound, and James and I were on board that.
James Stroud who produced the album, so we were we
were pushing things. Alibis was a massive hit. When I
remember being in the studio, we cut can't Break It
to My Heart, which was a single, and uh, that

(01:04:41):
track was originally cut with a screaming rock and roll
guitar on it, and I thought the head of the
label was gonna blow us top and he lost his mind,
made us go back in and put a fiddle solo
on it. There's too much rock and roll guitar that
couldn't stand it. Another song that was the number two
air placed song of the year called Can't Break It
to My Heart, that I was a co writer on.
I thought he's gonna drop me off the label because
he me not to cut it, not cut it anyway.

(01:05:01):
It's wild to hear those stories about songs that I
just associate being so freaking country. I mean, now I
look at those and I'll play some Alibis. Here's Alibis
and here is Can't Break It to My Heart. Where
this is as country as I could as the country

(01:05:22):
of a song can be. Absolutely, he hated this song,
hated it, hated everything about it. Why I have no
idea because he told me not to do it, and
I did it, and that's why didn't really like it.
But you know, there's you know, I always say, people
ask how you know when you're get in the music business,
when can you push? How do you know when to push?
When you get momentum, you better push because if you don't,

(01:05:43):
you'll never get it. When you get an opportunity to
take advantage of a situation, or you will never have
any creative control your whole life. And I took advantage
of the opportunity and I pushed back a little bit.
And I don't think they knew quite what to do
with that. And I had managers that stood behind me
to I wasn't out there by myself. My manager fat
the fight for me. It's funny when I was walking
over here, I was I was like, God, Tracy's over,

(01:06:04):
come over and talk to you. And I started in
my head as I was walking to the front door,
I just started going, pay me, you burn me. It's
like I think about you and that's the song that
comes to my mind when I think about you. It's
when that iconic song. When it was it was a
massive record. You know, I've been blessed with a lot
of number one in the business. That one only got
top five, which we were talking about before you got here,

(01:06:26):
because I'm always fascinated by songs that become an artist's,
you know, one of your career songs. But and it
doesn't matter if it was number one now because everybody
knows it and an associated with you. But that wasn't
a number one song. Do you remember what beat it out?
I don't remember. You know it was. Uh. It was

(01:06:46):
the first thing that we had released when I moved
over to DreamWorks from Warner Brothers, So there was there
was a political shuffle that had happened that whole time frame.
That album was actually cut on Warner Brothers and uh uh,
James Stroud was running DreamWorks at the time. Scared Boardshadow
was the head of promotion. So we had our own
deal worked out and we couldn't get one of birth
and Brothers to release us. They wouldn't get the paperwork done.

(01:07:07):
We waited and waited, wait, and we're trying to be patient,
getting all the tease crossed and eyes dotted and all
that stuff, and then low and behold, if Ken Melons
didn't drop a single the same song, and uh, then
the lawyers got involved, then it's like, okay, we're done.
We've been waiting to release a single and here here's
somebody else has got their hands on it. So we
we came and got aggressive and it Uh. I think
there was just some some things going on around DreamWorks

(01:07:30):
at the time, and then it was probably Toby that
was ahead of us that kept us from going in.
But they just felt like it was time to let
it go and move on. But it but it was
a massive hit man. That thing impacted hard. Yeah, I
was gonna ask is it massive because it's lasted or
was it massive then? And for some reason You're like,
why can't we get this the number one? Because I'm
feeling it when I'm playing shows. You know, Uh, it

(01:07:52):
was massive because it was massive, it really, and you
know all number ones aren't aren't that way. I've had
a lot of them that you know, they they manipulated
the numbers. They went in on a dying breath, some
things fell out at the top. Whatever the reasons were, Uh,
I don't think. I don't think the longevity of the
song needs to be determined by how far it went
up on the charts. And there's a there's a there's

(01:08:13):
a you know, a markey to all that stuff too.
But I think the longevity of it speaks for itself.
I mean, it's it's one of those songs that just
connected with people. You know, Hank. I don't think Hank
Junior had a number one song for years and years
all that early stuff that was so massive for him.
I mean most of those were just top tens, but
they impacted, they left up, they left an indelible mark
in people's mind. I remember, and I didn't know at

(01:08:36):
the time. As a kid listening to that song, I
didn't know what a key change was. It was only
later in my life when I learned a bit about
music to understand what a key change watch was and
how hard it was to do. But there's a key
change in pay Me at Birmingham that you do that
when listening back to it, I still get chill bumps
because it's like it goes to the next level when
steps up and what we do live. I closed the

(01:08:57):
show with it have been closing the show with it
for a long time, so we've built this big power
of pop guitar solo into it that just really elevates it.
When you hit that nod, it just won't you know.
I think one of the things that made that record
so special too is nobody really knew what a Birmingham was.
They thought, you know, you had people that thought I
was talking about the city that I left my love
in Birmingham. You had people thought about, you know, it's

(01:09:18):
a uh, whatever the scenario was. But what I found
out later on it maybe I didn't really even know
what it was until later on. But the song is
actually written about a house called a Birmingham. It's a
style of house and we've talked about that in the
past before. So I think the being able to interpret
that song and be something that anybody wanted it to
be made was one of the things that made it

(01:09:39):
so special. It wasn't locked into just being what it was.
You can interpret it many different ways, which a lot
of great songs have. That absolutely, because what makes it
great is so many people can relate and sometimes so
many people find their own relationship with the song. And
I think that's what this song does. Like everyone finds
in a relationship with this song absolutely, and then I

(01:10:00):
get fifth our own mental picture of what that is.
Another song that that was locked that for me was
Texas Tornado and all the things that I've had. I
think Texas Tornado impacted the young kids more than anything
else that I ever did. And and the only thing
that I can correlate that too is how many times
as a kid did your mother say your room looks
like a tornado hit it? So I think that it

(01:10:21):
had that perception to young kids, and they were they
found a way to relate to it on a different
level because I never saw that that that correlation when
I cut that song either. Jody Messina, on when she
finally landed her first number one in with Bye Bye,
two years after her debut single Heads Carolina, tells California
peaked at only number two and it would have been

(01:10:43):
a number one, but my Maria was ahead of it
as a tough one to beat. Here you go, Jody Messina,
your first number one here is Bye Bye. So was

(01:11:04):
this your first single or was it your first single
that went number one? Did you have one before this?
It didn't We're just gonna love this one. One of
my teammates. Um, My first single was heads Carolina Tales California,
which is which is bizarre, was gonna get around by Maria.
I was gonna talk about it. That's the wildest song
to never go number one. Heads Carolina tells California like

(01:11:25):
I can't did on some charts, like the smaller charts,
but Billboard and I think are and are It's set
behind my Maria forever. That is just some bad luck
that two of the biggest country songs of all time
are on the chart at the exact same time. They
just want to kick Ronnie and Kicks in the ship
and be like, hey, guys, come on, let me hop up.
There is five. They were my first major tour, so no,

(01:11:48):
I learned a lot from them touring with them, and
they were just so kind to me, and their crew
was kind to me, and they they gave everybody the
speech you know when we first started, like whatever whatever
they need, you know, just see two that they haven't
take care of him and we were just spoiled rotten
on their tour. So no, but we did have bad luck,
or not bad luck, but we did have that same

(01:12:09):
luck again with Lesson and Leavin and that song that's
for a few years after that. Who sat at number
one that time one Star Amazed eight weeks eight weeks
we were at number one and two. That's crazy. So

(01:12:30):
let me rewind for a second. So heads Carolina tells California, um,
which we still play on our show, because I mean,
that song just transcends every form of music, every form
of it doesn't matter. It's such a good song that
thank you. Was that your first ever single and if so,
it must have felt like a rocket ship. Well here's
the deal. We were done with the album and Tim Nichols,
who's one of the writers on there, had called me

(01:12:51):
and said because he saw me at a showcase and
he's seen me around town singing and um, he called
me and said, hey, I wrote this song and I
was wondering if you would listen to it. I'm like, dude,
we're done, we're done with the record finally. And he's like, please,
let me just leave it in your mailbox. Listen to
it and then let me know what you think. And
so he did. He left in the mailbox and I

(01:13:12):
was like, man, this song is really catchy. I love
the chorus. I'm not crazy about the opening two lines,
but I'm going to play it for my producers. And
I played it for my producers and they're like, which
is Byron Gallimore and to mccroth, And they were like,
oh man, we gotta cut this. And I was like, yeah,
but I don't like the first couple of lines, and
so they're like, well, ask him to change it, and
I was like okay. So they did. The only studio

(01:13:34):
time that was available then was on the fourth of July,
so we actually cut it the fourth of July before
it was released. And so as you cut it, were
you already this is a single? Like in your mind?
Were you cutting it to be a single? Are you
cutting it just to get it on the record and
see what would happen? We're cutting it to get it
on the record. And then as soon as we passed
the record in, as soon as we passed it in,

(01:13:55):
there like okay, this would be the first single. Do
you remember what the lines were that we're changed? We
two have known it the day they cut that paper
mill down, or shut the paper mill down. Sorry, there'd
be no future for us no more in our little town.
I've got people in Austin, ain't your daddy still in

(01:14:15):
the morning? And I was like, oh, and can we
change Austin to Boston? People in Boston. So yeah, So
that's Peaks at two and then you okay, So then
bye Bye comes out? And did you feel like a
little bit because bye Bye again such a great song?
Did you feel like a little bit that the chart?
The chart people felt like, Okay, we need to make

(01:14:38):
because she got such a raw deal with Heads Carolina
Tellas California, we need to make sure there's nothing else
in the way with this one. I don't think they
were aware. I think it was just the song itself. Um,
I saw they pitched m I pitched it to me.
It was a film of aster song and they I
loved it as soon as we heard it, and so

(01:14:59):
and that, and then I had a different first line
to the opening line for that was girly, you sure
look pretty. They're standing in the doorway in the sunset light.
And when I sing, and it's like, boy, you sure
look good. They're standing in the doorway. And I remember
before we cut it, Phil Bash was like, it's not
a song or a girl, it's a guy's song. And
so he still says that today it's like, that's not

(01:15:21):
a girl's song that was written for a guy. So
but we we love each other. But he's yeah, we
got bye bye that came out and then I'm all right, yeah,
same year. Thanks for listening to episode three sixty one
of the Bobby Cast. Famous firsts now, go out and
write your own number one song. And since I inspired you,

(01:15:41):
give me five percent publishing or just make sure that
you subscribe to the Bobby Cast wherever you're listening. Rate
at five stars please, And if you're looking for more podcasts,
I want to suggest two of them. Twenty five Whistles.
It is our football podcast or movie mix movie podcast
if you love movies. We're back next week with a
brand new episode. Thank you guys, this episode was awesome.
Good job Mike, thank you a great episode. There you go,

(01:16:02):
thank you, See you next time. H m hm

All Episodes

#361 - Famous Firsts: Stories Behind Artists First No. 1 Songs with Keith Urban, Kelsea Ballerini, Luke Combs, Dierks Bentley and More!

Episode Transcript

Host

Bobby Bones

Popular Podcasts

United States of Kennedy

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#361 - Famous Firsts: Stories Behind Artists First No. 1 Songs with Keith Urban, Kelsea Ballerini, Luke Combs, Dierks Bentley and More!