Ronnie Dunn of Brooks and Dunn drops in to talk about his latest album 100 Proof Neon, growing up in Texas, hanging out with the Rolling Stones, and of course…Brooks and Dunn. The duo has won a crazy amount of awards including: 28 ACMs, 19 CMAs (the most of any artist), 2 GRAMMY Awards, and more than 30 million records sold as country music’s most-awarded duo in history. But we found out what accolade was the most special for him to earn. Ronnie also shares stories about his dad and how his father wanted to be an artist, how he used to live in Johnny Cash’s cabin and what went down the first time they met!
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Episode Three Sixty Four, Ronnie done from Brooks and Dune,
the lead singer of Brooks and done also solo artist,
new album, a hundred proof neon, fifth solo album, and
we will talk about all of that. This is the
rare time we recorded the intro before we do the interview.
Sometimes I'm like, be sure to listen for this, be
sure to listen for that, but I've had Ronnie on
the radio show a few times. The great thing about this,
(00:23):
what I'm looking forward to the most about this interview
you're about to hear and that we're about to do
is that we just haven't really be able to been
able to sit with him and just have room and
really dive in. And you know, in the radio we
have eight minutes or twelve minutes and we gotta keep
it moving pretty fast and it's gonna be super interesting
and this is super interesting, but we can let things develop,
(00:45):
and so I think that's why I'm most excited about
this and Ronnie coming over. And it's also cool because
when I have somebody that I know in my real
life and they come in to do the show, I
have the liberty to ask things I would never just
ask if we were hanging out. That makes sense, Mike.
That just makes sense because if I'm asking hanging out,
then it's like can we just be normal humans? But
if I ask here, I'm just doing a job. You
(01:05):
can't get very specifics and found in normal conferenation. Right. So,
Ronnie done from Brooks and Dunne, episode three sixty four.
I'M gonna ask him in the interview at some point,
and remind me of this, of all of his and
their accolades, like what's his favorite professionally? I'm gonna guess
that he may say like Songwriters Hall of fame. Oh,
not a grammy. I'm gonna Guess Songwriters Hall of fame
(01:26):
or Country Music Hall of fame. More than a grammy.
I'll go grammy. Okay, winner wins one thousand paper ones. Okay, cool, cool,
Oh yeah, Ronnie Donne, Brooks and done, please enjoy. Share
this on your instagram story if you don't mind, if
you if you liked it. We need organic sharing because
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So check it out. Also, check out movie Mike's Movie podcast.
You can check out my sports show as well that
(01:48):
it's called twenty five whistles Mike is the executive producer
of that show. All right, that's what's up here. Is
Ronnie done from Brooks and Dunne. Having this house was
like it's like Disney world and what simulators. Here's a
here's a crazy that you get to put all your
your posters and stuff like. What you do on the wall?
I don't well, this is a different house. This is yes,
(02:11):
so we live right there in the same property, but
this is kind of the workhouse, radio TV. But Caitlin
also tells me all the time there's too much of
my face when you walk in, which you just alluded to.
I didn't even ask you and you're like there's so
much of you. I took I take that as a
not a compliment. Well, that's cool. So I had to barn,
you know, at my house, which was like a quarter
(02:31):
mom behind the house. So it's like JENICO's take a
quarter mile back there. Yeah, take all your training kits
and all your stuff and all your bowling trophies that
you wanted over the years and you putting them back there.
And how about we just have a real, live person,
real people house? And that's what we have now. Yeah, Um,
I had my mirrorball in the living room for a
long time. Well, of course that one's not anymore. That's
(02:53):
not that's it doesn't have a mirrorble. Okay, I had
a mirrored steerhead from a tour like like eight ft tall,
you guys made for the tour. Yeah, and then I
got that's that's a small one. But like there were
massive things that they would they would. They were coming
on from the ceilings and the arenas we do neon moon.
They hit him with blue spotlights and it would just
just go the whole place. So you kept the eight
foot one. Where's the bigger ones? which the warehouse? I've
(03:16):
got to wear a house. What are you gonna do
with all that stuff? I don't know. I mean I
should have already done something with it, but I have
to go through every now and then and just just
order a dumpster for real. Our our will auction it
off for charity stuff. People are always asking for things
to sign and I'll do things like that with it.
But but what do you do with the twenty FT
(03:36):
disco ball steerhead? You're still trying to figure that out,
because it's not like you can charity that one away
and mail it no, and too there's there's a cool
story about making it. Uh. You know, we got this
big back from production company years ago when we were
doing all that stuff. You know, Arthur's doing all this
crazy stuff. We was dropping from ceilings and all that
kind of stuff. So you had to do something, you know, phenomenal,
(03:57):
weird or odd, and you're paying rent for that right now. Right. No, no,
I on on the building. Are you on the way?
That must be nice. I didn't you even worry about rant? Yeah,
but I, dude, I just have to worry about room.
You know, even with warehouses, but we would wear house
all our stuff there. And now that we were doing
in another place and everything's digital obviously now. So it's
it's more condensed. So you don't pull out any of
(04:20):
the old stuff with the new shows. Yeah, some of
the old like big stuff. You know, there's a there's
a drum set that when we were at was easy top. Uh.
That is just fantastic. The symbol holders kids or actual
things that are the drum kid. He did the kid
and and you know all the stands and stuff, because
Frank Uh from from Zz was always had these killer drums,
(04:44):
like weird crazy stuff with skulls and any any theme
that they used. So we had the guy build their
stuff to do one for us and it's it's massive
barbed wire, uh drum stands, you know, all all meshed together.
So you still use that? Have we can. And I
had a steer, a real stairhead that went in front
(05:04):
of the kick drum and of course it blew smoke
out of it. Of course. I mean if it wouldn't
have been a joke. And you that's George, straight conservative
country media throw. I just told myself what would George Do?
What would George wouldn't do this, and it sounds like
you did the opposite. You're like, well, George doing then? Well, no, no,
we listen to all the stones every now and then
we're gonna do some crazy stuff. Is that your favorite band?
(05:26):
Is that one of your favorite band's, rolling stones, Yelp,
from the day and still today. Yeah, do you ever
see him? Yeah, yeah, we we. We opened for him
in Nebraska. Dum Dumb question. I've asked you've ever seen
him and then you've opened for them. It's a Prett
dumb question, right. Yeah, yeah, pretty. Yeah. So did you
get spending time with them? Oh, yes, you get and
(05:47):
that were they nice? They were Super Nice, you know.
But before the show you get all this this stuff from,
I'm sure, the crew and the protocol, a piece of
you know whatever. Don't look him in the eye type
stuff exactly, you know, and be careful. Just just to
go to, you know, go to the rattlesnake lounge, is
what they had back then, and I said go in
there and make yourself, you know, comfortable and don't make
(06:09):
eye contact. Anyway. Yeah, they come dancing in about ten
minutes before time for the show and it was like,
I mean they were all there was. Could not have
been more kind and more hospitable and took all the
crew guys up and showed them all of keeps guitars
that were set up and just rolled out the red carpet.
(06:30):
I ended up with Mike Adams, uh mix, uh, my
buddy Mack uh with with make Jaggers, a monitor guy
for years, and I mean, you know, the world changed then.
It's just like you see what, what kind of talent
they get to deal with. It's like, you know, being
(06:52):
in a pilot and you you know, a little popera
cub and then you step into f sixteen or whatever
they are now, just crystal clear sound and office, while
still I am was meeting those guys, if I related
to a young artist WHO's twenty two and he's listened
to you, guys, and listen to you, and they're like,
Oh my God, were you like that with him? Or
(07:14):
are you not really jaded anymore, because you kind of
see what it's really all about? Well, we we, we've
been around long enough to be be, you know, confident
that what we're we gonna do is okay. And it
wasn't a frightening thing, but it was just cool to
us to get to meet him and and and do this,
do this show irving as off set up. Did you?
Do you take picture if you're famous? Do you ask
(07:35):
another famous person of for picture, or do you have
somebody coming and go, let's get a picture of you guys? Right. Well,
that's one thing that they said, dude, don't, don't ask
for pictures. So they may do it, they may not,
but anyway it was mixed and stepped up and said Hey,
let's let's take a picture. So we also end up
and get this picture. Uh, and UH. It took no,
this is no exaggeration, a minimum of three years to
get it back Clarence, our manager, new irving and it
(07:58):
was hooked up with all that bunch. and Uh so,
three years later the picture comes in to night by
ten and they're the same height as we are. I'm six,
four kicks and six. Right then we're all the same high.
So I guess that's what was going on. A little
take a lot longer to edit pictures. Then little sounds
(08:19):
like yeah, that's funny that you're all the same height
in the picture. You still have the picture? Where is
it in your house some night staying right now? Is
that one of your favorite pictures professionally of your professional career?
It's up there? UH, yeah, I don't, I don't, I
think being I found one the other day back then
on online. It was Dale Earnhardt, Johnny Paycheck, Merle Haggard,
(08:45):
me and kicks, uh, and it was talking about outlaws
or something in music. Of course kicks and there weren't outlaws,
but those guys were like as iconic as I can
imagine at the time in that world. Did you get
when you first started to blow up? Well, let's just
say you had a hit or two. What kind of lane?
(09:08):
I don't, because then again now and kind of revisionist history.
It feels like, Hey, that's brooks and Dune. They're killing it,
they're awesome, they've got so many hits and look at
him go and everybody loves them. was that at all
what it was like? Yeah, I mean, yes, no, no
pushback on those guys either. Aren't real country. Everybody gets that,
(09:31):
you know, from the press and critics and all this. Yeah,
Heck Yeah, I mean there's there's a critic Downe in Dallas.
You know, I forget his name. I think everybody on
the else house too, but he would go out of
his way to really get under your skin. With what purpose,
I don't just as he was. It was an asshole.
was he a traditionalist like and you know, I don't think. Well,
(09:51):
I don't think he was. He claimed to be if it,
if it served his purpose, you know, if I but
like one night we were a book for Billy Bob's
early on one and I literally, I mean it seed
her fever down there. I just took my know is
to lose your voice. Just lost my voice so uh,
I couldn't sing and but you have to show must
go on and I did the best I can and
(10:14):
he just shredded me the next day. Did he mention
that you were sick, or just that you couldn't sing? No,
he just he just mentioned he said that he couldn't sing.
He said it was no good. You know that. That
that kind of spirit. So, but he he can. Can
he continued that and I don't I don't know, but
he was. He was notorious for that. Still Alive. No,
I got hit by a bus. This is a joke.
(10:36):
You need to tell me if it's a joke. Hit
by got hit by bus on the way out of
Billy Bob's at night. You're not telling the truth. No, okay, see,
that's why I said this is is a joke, because because
all of a sudden I started laughing at and we
backed over the guy by accident. Well, my wife and
I are driving a couple of days ago. Let me
before I give you the story about you. What do
(10:57):
you consider? And you gotta consider at least five years
prime years of Brooks and Dunne on top of it.
What are those five to seven years? Uh, it's just
chaos and nothing but a blur. I can remember going
to Sacramento and playing Arco Arena when it was relatively
new and and setting the UH, the record for attendance, uh,
(11:21):
you know, above the the team, basketball team and things
like that. Like what it would be? Yeah, it would
be like nineties six, I would imagine, up to about
two thousand or so. Did you feel, and before I
get to her story, did you feel the the music
(11:43):
sonically changing or were youtube changing more? I remember Sonically,
you know, progressively with technology and all the things that
are involved, you know, on the that end, my idea
of improving and changing has more to do with a
sonic deal, you know. Uh. And then then, yeah, it did,
(12:07):
you know, in the start started into or maybe early
two thousand's, uh, started changing to more of a pop
you know. Definitely. Yeah, yeah, she was singing, but she
can't take the hog get on out of and she
knew every word. And I said what year is this
(12:30):
and she was like, well, it's in my wheelhouse, so
probably two thousands. She looked up two thousand three, I
believe it is the year, and I was like, Oh,
all right, that's later Brooks and dined. That's like, you know,
outside of the night, because I never heard that song. Well,
you know. Okay, speaking of Sonics, are our first record, uh,
which sold the most, many of them so far, seven
(12:51):
million C ds. But uh, it was cut in Sony
a TV. Back then it was called tree publishing, in
the basement in the demo studio that was. Those are
all cutters demos. So you're saying not a lot of
resources went into the biggest record you ever had. We
put thirties something thousand dollars into that entire album and
(13:13):
that and that's interesting you bring that up because when
I heard what's the name of that song, because you
can't take that. You still play that, by the way.
I can't take the that. That felt a little cleaner
and a little Shinier than some of the old stuff.
But we might have changed studios, you know, at that time.
Do you like that song? UH, yeah, yeah, fine, yeah,
(13:34):
the crowd's react to it, love it. No, I didn't
ask about the crowd, like do you. Has a lot
to do, I know, but we're talking about you, because
you know I'm a massive fan. Yeah, well, I look
back at it right now and my wife is usually
my voice on that. She'll she'll go. You know, you
don't need to be doing that now, you know. Uh, yeah,
Connie came back from it like a cousin's wedding. You know,
(13:55):
I can't take the Hokkut the girl anyway, and she'll
she'll go. You know, do you feel we're doing that now?
You know, she says take take it somewhere else, try
to try to grow or progress, you know, but what
does that mean? I don't know. It's just just music
to me. I'm not trying to chase a trend. Radio
had a lot to do with with with that, you know,
(14:17):
in whatever way it always has. Uh. And where where
the labels would would get involved, for the most part
on the corporate side, and go look, we you know,
radio is not gonna play this. Radio, radio players this,
you know. But some of my some of my favorite songs,
are better songs, are been redi songs that that probably
(14:37):
wouldn't have been played on radio. But I think a
lot of people say that, but then they're they're more esoteric. Yeah,
you know, yeah, not as palatable for it, but for
the general part of people who aren't die hard brooks
and Dune, yes, right, yeah, that's who you're trying to get.
You'RE gonna get your people regardless. It's like, what can
you create that's also going to reach out a little
farther and hopefully people get a taste and you can't
(14:58):
criticize that. People do. I've done my share of it,
but now I realize, no, that's that's a that's a
business plan that works. You know, did you change schools
a lot as a kid? Change Schools? Oh, uh, twelve,
twelve to schools in UH. No, thirteen schools in twelve years. What?
You can't even really build a group. No, you can't,
(15:21):
you can't. No, you're you're always a new kid and uh,
all the way. I started on a reservation in farming
to New Mexico and I was the only Anglo kid
there because we lived on an oilties. My Dad was
in the pipeline. Is that why you move so much?
Because of Your Dad's job? Yeah, is that a bit?
(15:42):
Why you perform? Because you you know, you just like
therapy type stuff, but you move so much you never
really have stability within a friendship group. You never really
have that closeness. So also you have to kind of
be somebody new all the time. I have to perform
for new friends quickly. You go to one school and
(16:02):
you'd be cool, different, different dress, different vibe, different personality
of the school, you know, and you need to kind
of tell learn to be you know, became a communion
at times. Do you think that moving around a lot
affected your desire to perform? No, I never I never
wanted to be. I never wanted to perform. I was
good playing bass in the background and my dad played guitar.
(16:26):
His dream was to become a country singer period. I
mean everything else was was second nature. He was good enough.
He was good enough because he try. He did try. Yeah,
he had a radio station, a radio show on at
a radio station in the fifties when I was born. Uh, uh,
in Abdeen and Texas. Uh, it was called that. The
(16:46):
band was called the Fox four seven. I think it's
a KRBC. And so he did a show and also
had a band that performed on the show. And how
far did he get? Like what? What was his well,
the big thing back then there was a dj out
of Fort Worth in Dallas called Bill Mack, and he
was kind of like you know, your name, of the
name of Big Jack. You in the day. It's like Jack. Well, yeah, yeah,
(17:10):
I'll be bones. Not Me. I'm not a Djil what
what are you? You're more than that. But they're always
more than that, program directors, all that stuff. No, no no,
don't compare me to other they're always I'm not a DJ,
I don't. I might play three songs in an hour
and don't even pick them. I perform wherever I am.
I say things. I'm a personality. Okay, I'll go with that. Not. No,
(17:31):
you're not. You're definitely not limited to to to this
UH dynamic in space. No, you're not. I see you
like doing comedy, uh, you know, out playing with the
band on all kinds of TV shows. Now listen to
your climbing mountain. Let's go back to your let's go
back to your dad. So he's he's got a radio
(17:52):
show and he's also a singer in a band. And
so can he play his own music on on that show? So,
and he's playing? They playing live? Yeah, he would right. Yeah, yeah,
they had to play live back then. They would do
all that crazy stuff. So he I'm assuming that he
toured some, at least regionally, with the band. He did, yes,
when I was young, and then then all that stuff.
(18:13):
You can he had to move with his job to
keep you know, he's still doing oil at and music. Yeah, yeah,
and I still had had to go with that and
then he had to feed his family. So and never
getting transferred a lot. You know, the pipeline business. He
isn't theory, you know. Did he always hold on to
the dream even as he was doing? Well, yes, I
never ever showed any real interest in in pursuing music
(18:38):
at all. I can remember my grandmother, his mother, uh like,
talking to me as a young kid and I've never understood.
I thought was random. There was a guy next door
who was in a band that they traveled all the time.
She goes, Oh, you don't ever want to be involved
with that. You're gone all the time. There's so much
downside of whatever it is. And and just they would
plant these little, you know, subtle subconscious sea and uh,
(19:01):
you know about that's just something you don't want to do. Well,
my mother's parents lived a block away, so I'd go
down there and they were super religious. My grandfather was
big main deacon in the Emmanuel Baptist Church in Eldreda, Arkansas,
and uh, you know, David, their deal was. His big
thing was I was the oldest of sixteen grandkids. He
(19:22):
just goes, I want one of my one of my
grandson's place to be a minister and I think that's
where I picked that up later on. Just it sounds
like you picked up both, just at different times. Yeah, yeah,
and I was I was trying to you know, you're
you're young, and your your impression when you absorbed, you know,
that stuff. So I went off to, you know, the
next thing you know, littly behold, I go off to Abilene,
(19:43):
Texas to to like study, you know, Bible and the ministry.
What did your dad say about that? He was a
church Gud. UH, he didn't say any anything about that.
It was just like to him for us to even
think about college. It was something that wasn't on the
(20:07):
on the radar. Was Your Dad resentful at all that
he'd never got a fair shot because he had to
work in oil and feel like he's gonna Think? So
hurt a bit. Yes, and that that was one thing
I was afraid of en I sensed, uh yeah, extremely competitive,
(20:27):
you know, uh for for numerous reasons we won't go
into but uh yeah, it was that. And and he
died before he died at the age of sixty two
before I really got a got a handle or hold
in professional music. What's your mom think about you going
(20:48):
to be a pastor, hardened Simmons, abiliant Christian, all that. Yeah,
she was all all for it, all for it. Is that?
Because she thought it would make you a good dude? Yeah, yeah,
it's just a better influence you. You're not getting out
there in the real world. So when I told her
I was always taught by her and she was very conservative.
Couldn't dance, any of that. Couldn't stuff. We couldn't go
to the school sack hops back then. She baptist. You said, yeah,
(21:11):
because I got up in a Baptist Church and the
other Baptist churches couldn't dance. But they never really told
us not to, but I knew that was the Baptist thing.
That was almost a methodist then. Yeah, so she she
never never saw dance. No, no, no, she she felt
like that that if you danced it lead to sex
and that was evil. I can tell you the first
dand it didn't. I'll tell you I never got just
(21:36):
to prove it. Until you know, you make it work
with a a little te Kay lie, I don't know. You
go to school and what's it like, your first day
of going to school to spend the rest of your
life preaching the word of God. UH, yeah, I didn't
know if I would be specifically a preacher. I thought,
(21:56):
you know, I could be like a, you know, spiritual
or religious counselor or or psychologists. Uh, and then I
learned real quick that that, the second that I had
to step up and speak in front of a crowd,
that that wasn't from me. So you didn't even have
the performance like bug whenever it was time to speak.
(22:20):
What you think you're gonna do with the rest of
your life? No, would know. You had to do it
to get to get licensed. This is so weird. I
didn't know this. I'm too young to know this. To
get licensed as a minister, that you get licensed and
then you get ordained. So, uh, if you're licensed, you
have to you have to go up and preach a sermon.
So this uh pastor we had in UH South Texas port, Isabel,
(22:43):
had me go up and do a sermon, which was
the biggest nightmare in my life. Remember, horrible, horrible. I
remember thinking thirty minutes, thirty what you know? No, I
mean it was awful. You know how to do? You
know how he is standing up as a comedian in
front of people, period and trying to hold that crowd.
All you have to do. And it's the same, same concept.
(23:05):
You know, do you remember what it was on? No, no,
I don't know. I was wrong. I don't know. so
you decide through experience you don't want to do this.
So that both. Then what do you do? You could
you just quit, or do you have to call your folks? No, no, no, no,
I tried. I tried to like like in my way
(23:25):
over a little bit. So I changed the psychology and
then I really got into that and enjoyed it and
I did it for but at the same time I
was involved in music. We would go out and play.
Uh Uh, are you playing bass? Yeah, so you're not.
You're not even singing in the band that you're in. Well,
I would sing a few songs, yeah, but I would.
(23:46):
Obviously I got to where I was a good bass
player and I could play by ear. That's another thing,
because if you're going out with with like pickup bands
and on the weekends, you kind of have to pretty
much no how to go, how to wing it, because
you're not gonna know all those songs. So I could
play by your were you comfortable performing as a singer? UH, not.
At first. No, in fact I wasn't comfortable performing as
(24:06):
a singer, even with Brooks and Dunna, you know. Well,
after Neon Moon came along, that's the first time that
I I like. They told me to hold a mic
and just stand there and sing or go go to
one side of the stage, go to the other. If well,
development like shaking, and I did that. So you're playing bass,
you're singing some. Yeah, you're going to school. I mean,
(24:30):
you didn't. You're not a preacher, you're not a Christian psychologist,
I don't know. College was not for me. I hated it.
How far did you go? UH, seven years, I mean
seven hours from graduating abnormal stye and statistics. You got
that close. Yeah, I was gonna come home for the
summer work on the pipeline with my dad and then, uh,
(24:52):
go back and finish up, and I never, never finished up.
I just I got involved with with bands. They had
moved to Tulsa Oklahoma about then from south South Texas,
and uh, I got involved with all these cool bands.
Eric Clapton's band was there. Uh, she's Bonnie Ray, J
J Kale Joe Cocker. Shelter records was was working out
(25:15):
there in l a at the same time. So, yeah,
so you your guys are in Tulsa now. Is that
when Oklahoma comes into play for you at that stage
of your life? Yeah, so, am I thinking you? I
mean I just think of Oklahoma first and foremost. I
don't know, I guess probably because that's all you and
my wife talked about for twenty minutes before we even
(25:36):
did this and you wouldn't stop talking and acknowledge that
I existed. But other than that, so usual girl. You
move up to you move up to Oklahoma at age three. UH, yeah, yeah, yeah,
and I fell right in with these guys who were
involved with ly on Russell and uh, when it was
an architect buddy, Steve Bush, was his name. Are you
(25:58):
playing Bass with these guys? Uh, not with them, no,
but but I was playing with base, with local bands,
a bunch of good local bands, and tons of places
to play, you know, like like like here. When we
first moved to Nashville there was no place to play,
and now as Broadway as rocking. So it was kind
of that deal. We would that people would club hop
you know, and uh, go hear bands, but not not many.
(26:18):
Are Those guys from that group? Were involved in country
at all, but Tulsa had a big country singing or
Johnny Lee Wills and a bunch of other people. So
are you singing more? I'm trying to find whenever you
started to realize you're actually better than most vocally, you know.
Are you singing more than you were? Are you still
just singing a few playing the base on most? I'll
(26:40):
tell you the thing that really broke. Uh, urban cowboys
thing kicked off, like started and we were hitting up
to them like little you know, little regional clubs and
just beer joints really, but that's I mean, where else
do you go if you want to be a football player?
or I mean it's a Canada. You have to go
to the gym, you have to you have to play
football school, junior high and all that stuff, you know.
(27:02):
So you go to these beer joints and you do it. UH,
there was a lady here, Mary John Wilkins, would work
with Christmas Jefferson, that I businited with a one point
before it all started. Don't let me get you too
far off track, but uh, she called him skull orchards.
She said she's a love the way you thing. She
just says you're gonna have to go get some some
experience in these skull orchards, and I was like, what
(27:23):
the what? What Reps? She just wants to go. That's
not a pretty picture day one. So, anyway, I actually
went to Oklahoma and did that. You know, I would
call these places up and go book for, you know,
three hundred dollars a night, two hundred fifty dollars a
night if they had it, and played for the door
in Texas. Now, uh, like I said, VF obvious. We
(27:44):
played for that and try to build the crowds up
over a few weeks or or month two and, uh,
whatever work. We'd stayed as long as we could. And
it's just working out playing, yeah, but even singing, you're
you're you're training that muscle. Yeah, right, I mean you're
seeing four week so I'm in Tulsa and the Urban
Cowboy Movement thing happens and uh, they start building this
(28:06):
massive club called Duke's country, uh, and I mean huge
it was. It was a converted furniture factory and I
mean there's nothing for three thousand people a night to
be there on the weekends, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Sometimes Thursdays. Uh,
a guy from a steel player ball thing, from a
(28:29):
gate mouth Brown's Band who was a blues player, uh
came to my door one one day and, uh, he said,
I'm putting together a band. He said, would you be
the lead singer for it, for our house band at Dukes,
and I'm like no, yes, I guess yes. So we
put together a band and uh kept a job for
two or three years, several years. There's a good run
(28:52):
for club stuff. Was that your first spot at being
just I mean you're the lead did you find you
liked it more than you thought? UH, yeah, loved it.
To make you think of Your Dad, always, always, I
always do any anytime. I mean he's always you know.
That's always the image and you know the motive back
there that I think. You know, I just think that's
(29:14):
like how did I end up cosmically living my father's dream? Yeah,
do you think he would be proud looking at you now?
You think it's super cool. Yeah, too cool. I have
to lock him away. You know, he was. He was
very pinonated, very country, very, very traditional country. Back to that,
(29:37):
you know, Hank Williams days and all that. UH, artist
TUB real way into that he takes you to any
concerts as a kid? Yeah, did you see? Uh you
remember your first ever young loves, sweet love. Who was that?
Sunny James? He played guitar with him for a little while.
(29:59):
He would come any dude do cup stuff with him.
And Uh, yes, I remember going to Sonny James Concert.
I was small. Uh. But yeah, did you ever, and
I don't know how old you were, when you're dead,
taking to concerts? Do you ever see Um? I don't know.
He loved Hank Senior. That was probably the way before you, though.
I'm sing when he was way before you. Anybody come
(30:21):
through town and you can remember and being like, Dang,
I saw them before they actually turned into the superstar
that everybody knows. Well, I didn't Tulsa. Yeah, a lot
we we opened for per ricky's cage when he just
had his first song out Lee Greenwood, when he just
that's that's where they would they would land in no
size venues and then then work their way up. But
you know Johnny Lee coming out of urban cowboy. But
(30:42):
of course I was a big, big thing at the time. Uh. Yeah,
you're singing Rodney kraw yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I love Rodney. Yeah,
that's really cool too. You're singing in Tulsa, you're regionally playing.
But when when do you go? I gotta go to Nashville.
Or did someone said you gotta go to Nashville? She
just said, you know, and for the for for you
to make this happen, you're gonna have to just you're
(31:03):
gonna have to jump out of the plane. Man, he
says you're gonna get up. Did you not want to
jump out of the plane? I was afraid, you know
that Nash Nashville scared me to death. You know, there's
it's a feast or famine environment. You know, there's no
there's no middle ground here, and I did not I
want to be get involved in the dark in the
dark side. You Pack Up, you're throwing a car, you
(31:31):
get a trailer, like what? What's? What's okay? So Janine
had had had been put for five years and uh
a friend introduced us and uh she and her ex
husband are not ex husband, but past husband. Uh, what
(31:51):
do you call it? Help me if you die anyway. Uh,
she she was. Come to find out, I didn't know
going in that she was friends with June car cash
and Johnny cash that they were best friends. Well, he
her husband, her late husband, had made the car one
(32:15):
piece of time. That the John Thing about. Okay, so
she goes, I'm gonna take you to Nashville, and she
said that's what I saw somewherey gonna be able to
do it and and and introduce you to John. And
Jenny said we SCO up their friends. We're not gonna
stay much of anything except that Eric Clapton's drummer. Backing
up her step here, Eric Clapton's drummer, Jamie oldecker. As
(32:37):
a joke one night, had entered my name in the
Marlborough talent round up contest. Okay, so you have to
submit a tape. You know. They get it. They called
it back. She says I was a convenient store one night.
I said I ripped one of the like interest forms
up and uh sent it into him. Uh, and I'm
like a dude, this, this, this is someone cool with.
(33:00):
We were cool even at that level. We were we're
playing beer joints and S barbander down. So he goes,
I did it, I did it, we're going anyway. So
sure enough, we get it. We get into the regional
part of the contest. Then you go to whatever the
next event, and it's bands, bands all over the country,
(33:21):
and then you end up here in Nashville doing the
final for that and we want it. And remember Ricky's
gags was it was a guest. I mean I judge,
I can't remember who else was it. We want it. Yeah,
and Uh then you get like thirty three thousand dollars
and UH, recording session with Barry Beckett at the time
(33:46):
and Scott Hendrix and uh we cut boot Scoot and
neon moon and one more hold up in some honkey
talk by Dean Dillon. Who is we? The band? Had
A band. Yeah, I'm sorry, what's the name of the band?
They eventually became the tractors. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's
(34:07):
just Bonnie rights, piano player. I got clapped as drummer
and we're all like that, we're in a band. Yeah, yeah, so, yeah,
so you took that band originally cut a couple of
those songs, but they weren't that band at the time.
They were just we're just, we're just going yeah, wow.
So you make that record on thirty three dollars, basically
three or four songs. That's not a record, but songs. Yeah, right, yeah.
(34:29):
What do you do with it, though? Yeah, what do
you do with the record? Uh No, I mean we thought,
we thought, okay, well, at least we get a good,
good foothold and uh, you know, we're getting to do
some some stuff around it. And we did. They, Marlboro
put us on tour, a military tour, which was actually
a blast. It was massive, stages, George Straight, Oh God,
(34:54):
Ricky Skaggs, Alan Jackson, I mean everybody. I mean we
got to open the show for all those people, and uh,
we thought, well, this is the beginning of it. We'll
get a record doing the way we go. Well, that
ended and then, you know, three years later, I'm out
weed eating, you know, the fans at the at the farm.
(35:15):
So what the Hell am I doing here? I thought,
I thought, this is my way too into it. The
same principle. That works with, you know, the other you
know shows that we watched today. The voice that is
not that's not the ticket to the big time, right,
it's a ticket to get a little flash that maybe
people can pay attention to you so then you can start.
That's that's what I tell I'm like, use this platform
(35:36):
to get a good place to start. Yeah, you're not.
You're not on your way. You know not. You can
make a few contacts and relationships through a little flash
that you can get enough of a hold. And and
that said, I did. Scott Hendrix took the tape to
attempt Dubois, who was starting heirs to records at the
time and just trying to fill in a balanced roster.
(35:59):
And Uh, Clive Davis was was behind it, of course,
because that never hurts. UH, at a time in the
business when it was not a great, great time to
start a label. But tell Clive Davis that right. So
Tim comes out and here and here's me in Tulsa,
because he's from Grove Oklahoma. Caitlin, I don't know what
(36:20):
grove they had like a moment where they're like, you know,
groove right on grand leg. Anyway, anyway, here's this play
and he goes okay, after we get through Texi back
and goes okay, I'm gonna tell you this. He says
hold tide for me. He says, just like I'm going somewhere, right, yeah, right,
I got the other side of the fence to wheatie. Uh,
(36:42):
and he says, I'm I'm putting the record Labor together
Alan Jackson and Pam tell us diamond Rio and he said,
I'm I'm up to something here. She says, if you're
just just have a little faith and patience in me,
I'm gonna go there. So you know, a year later
I didn't heard anything from him. A year. Yeah, that's
a lot of patience. Well, where else do you go?
I don't have choice. Yeah, UH, sure enough. I uh.
(37:05):
Janine comes down one day and tells me to put
the weed either down and come up to the house,
get on the phone and she says I called him
to bond and see what's going on, because I'm just
I'm sure I wouldn't do that, you know. And she's not.
I called him and he goes, Mr he said, this
is unreal. He said, I'm sitting here with my Rollo
decks right now looking for your number. I went, no,
(37:25):
you're not, and he goes yes, I am, because I
want to cut boots, goot boogie. I'm thinking the flash
me with me. He goes with a sleep at the wheel.
So I just signed myself. Okay, great, you know, knock
it out. And he said come down to Nashville. He says,
I'm gonna, you know, talk to you when we get
through and listen to the record. So what with? Janine
and I got in this car, drove to Nashville and uh,
(37:48):
it was he played it for us and it's sleep
at the wheel. Did, of course, as a swing song,
bomp bomb, and I thought it, I thought and we
both just went jenny and I were like, Oh, it's
not gonna work and a fly and uh so they
ran through their cycle there and then, uh finally Tim said, okay,
it's time to move here. You know, this is your
(38:10):
your later, you're after that. He said. Time to move here,
he said, and I'll get you, I'll get you hooked
up as a as a writer at one of the
publishing companies. And Uh, he just called out all the
blue one day after June Carter had already called Janina said, uh,
she called her witter, witter patch. That was that was
your name, is married name. UH, she's a witter. Uh
(38:32):
would you mind even Ronnie maybe staying at having written
Lord of the cabins up on the mountain, which was
outside of town in Gillettsville. And Uh Janina started crying.
She was like, Oh my God, yes, please, I'll be
close to June, was a friend of hers and all this.
So we did uh, UH, Tim put kicks and now
(38:53):
together to write with another, another writer in town, Don Cook. Don't,
don't dump ahead. Hold on. Did you ever got met
Johnny Cash? She drove. Yes, she brought me in to
meet him. where? To his house and Hendersonville. Are you nervous? Yeah,
I'm scared of death. I don't I don't want to
meet them. And I know they're thinking, Hey, you know,
she's bringing you know, I want to be singer into
(39:14):
my house, just just like what I would do with
one of my daughters, just like Ah, please, right. Uh.
So June takes her out and you know just uh,
John had just given June a blue on Blue Rolls
Royce for her birthday, you know. So we rolled up
to their house and all this austentatious stuff is outside
(39:34):
and uh go in. Nervous, yes, more nervous as you
walk closer. Yes, okay, it gets worse. So the girls
after after day one, you know, we all stopped and
eat all this stuff. John's real quiet. He's quite at first,
you know, and he says he's intimidating anyway. Right, and
then under those circumstances, I'm going. You know, I don't.
(39:55):
I don't wanna, you know, I wanna be here like this.
So the next today, June and Janine go shopping and
leave me and John Alone at the house. Well, there
were two big black recliners in front of the TV
like that on the wall and uh, he's sitting there
watching CNN and I just sat down with a cup
(40:17):
of coffee and I sat there. I said something going
on in the news and he goes, I always watch it,
always watching. He says, I'm an addict. He says I'll
watch the TV until the loop changes. He says, you
know that the CNN and all that stuff aroung loops,
and I'm like no, and uh, he goes, I just
(40:39):
watch it, you know, two loops whatever. You know. That
was kind of the only thing I remember. It just
kind of didn't say much. He's like, you want to
go fishing? What are you doing? You want to be
in music, nothing like that. So Janine gets back and
she's kind of Pale. She's kind of like down, and
that's not like her because she's a chatter. And Uh,
(41:01):
finally we we went back to the bedroom and she
she said how did it go? And she goes, well,
June just gave she read of me the Right Act,
you know. She goes, look, you know, because Rodney and
Roseanne had been been married and the girls carline and
all of them, and junior had her struggles with John Too.
And she said, uh, it's it's it's not a it's
not a pretty business. She goes, you know, these these boys,
(41:24):
she says, they're gonna act up on you. You know,
they're gonna get out there and, you know, theoretically, do whatever.
And she says, you know, it's just not it's not
a good life. Even if he does make it, she
said the chances are, you know, one in a hundred
million that they, even if they make it, will they last?
She says, you don't, you don't. You don't want that life.
(41:44):
You don't have to have that life. So Janice said,
I'm you know, that's just kind of bummed me out
and I said, well, okay, let's let's go. But we didn't.
We stayed and and and had had I had a
good time, but that was just kind of what we
were left with their but at the same time, June
was kind enough, uh, to to do whatever they could
(42:05):
to help and they did. And half the time, more
than half the time, I would go to go up
to take the rent or play the rent, six hundred
bucks or something like that. This house looked like something
did Johnny's House. He would take the rent to Johnny
cash's house. Yeah, and just drop away. They had like
a hole for the thing. The wouldn't take it. No, June,
I'd say, June, I'm a run over and and leave
the rent and she goes, honey, don't do that, she said,
(42:25):
don't do that. Yeah, you don't, there's no need for
you to do that. We're not worried about that. UH, anyway.
So they wouldn't take it. Did they ever take your rent? No.
How long did you live there? UH, year and a half.
Two years. No, two years. Did did you ever get
closer to Johnny? Uh, yeah, Oh, yeah, yeah, no, no,
Johnny would come up. There was another it's a little
(42:45):
unclever with cabins in good listen on top of hill
that uh, they had built real cool and uh he
would come up and stay and spend the weekends and
stuff sometimes up there just to be alone. and He'd
stopped at the House and uh, and I told him
right okay, I get a record deal with their stuff
as a solo artists. Well, I'm thinking as a solo
(43:07):
artist and I'm still writing and and Tim says, uh,
one day he goes, come over here, he says, we're
gonna spend the day and I'm gonna take you to
every publishing company in town. And I had written, like
I said to neon moon boots, could hard working man.
She's to be alling that kind of stuff. Uh, no,
one actually super excited. And he goes, but I'm I'm
waiting to take you to to Sony a TV for
(43:30):
to Donna Hilly, and he said that that's where I
want you. He said that's that's in his period, but
the best place in town. So, uh, sure enough, she
calls one day and says, Hey, I'm gonna give you
a deal. She said. Then I've been how does like,
you know, a month sound? I was like, I'll take
it now. and Uh so I was set up as
(43:55):
a writer in in in a great spot and uh
Tim put me into kicks together and I'm thinking, but
you've heard this story, but a lot of people have.
But UH kicks. Just thinking, well, he's writing songs with
me for my solo deal. unbeknonest to me, he had
been working on another duo deal at Aras for him. Ye,
(44:18):
him and someone else. Yes, Tim Tim Nichols. It was
who the first one was, and I heard that, had
I not worked out, it was gonna be Libroy Pardell.
That's funny. How about it? They were shopping kicks to
a lot of really it was like kicks, you're half
of something great. You'RE gonna be. Yeah, you'RE gonna be. Buddy,
you know you want to be in a duo. Uh,
(44:39):
it sounds like three duos aline. Do you know? I
don't know. You have to ask kicks. I don't know,
but he'll he'll tell the same story. He said. Man,
I thought, you know, he was writing for me and
I'm writing to him. So, uh, Tim comes in one
day and he has everything in his office lined up
and UH plays, plays all of our music together, you know,
and he goes. I think I ink with the first
(45:02):
song that that we had written together was brand new, man, uh,
and working on my next broken heart and, uh what else?
But you wrote that in a day or in a week,
like a couple of days together. But you stay together
right for a couple of days yeah, I'd never co
written before, so I didn't know, you know, what the
protocol was and uh, we did that, put the records
(45:25):
together and, did you know, some work on them individually ourselves.
was there a creative chemistry that you felt then, or
was it did you just sound good, or did you
compliment each other in a way that you hadn't before?
It just it felt good. I liked I liked what
he had brought to the table. It was lost and
found and a couple of songs that were like almost
eagles progressive, and I liked that. That kind of I
(45:49):
was really, you know, in my creative zen place thinking
if we were gonna market ourselves as kind of a southwestern,
east west of the missis it be, you know, desert
kind of then that's southwest deal. Did you guys? And
let's we'll just smash forward just a little bit. But
did you guys ever have other names for the group
(46:11):
set for Brooks and done? Yeah, we said for a
day it was gonna be the coyote brothers and, you know,
the CACTUS brothers. We don't know, we said and filled
up a notebooks and finally it just you know, I
left town and came back for after a weekend. Everybody said,
let's just call it brooks and done. Yeah, they were
just exhausted at all that, that number desert references. So
nothing felt right. You know, I don't know how does it,
(46:35):
because you're both singers and I've been to more than
a few shows that you guys, and kick sings awesome.
It's too awesome too. And he has he, I mean
he kicks has. Yes, how was that? His name's first,
and then you get to sing more songs or like,
how does that when you're both good? Here's the name,
here's how the name thing worked out, and people go
(46:55):
how that happened. It's like his brother in law owned
a big AD company up in Maine. We wanted to
logo bad so we kind of laid out the basics,
and who came back with you? The Brooks have done,
because it laid out graphically better. Uh, there, it could
be done in Brooks, but brooks have done. You know
by now it just seems natural. You know the Beatles, right,
(47:18):
what a freaking name? Really, who would you call yourself? Yeah,
it sounds successful. You are the normal. The name gets. Yeah, yeah,
when did it get the most absurd to you? With
and again. But you guys were also in their thirties
right when it started. I wonder if that helped it
all with a little bit the absurdity of how crazy
it got. It did it did, and a lot of
the challenges we would have had. You know, you kind
of helps you like fight through the kind of the
(47:40):
unspoken ego tension that goes along with with anything you're
trying to establish. Your turf is, you know, are you
going to be the you know, the lead singer, or
am I going to be the lead singer? Hey, we're
good to throw it together. We we always have. It's
just kind of and I think being older helped help
deal with that. When you're in these shows and they're
(48:01):
selling out and you guys are crossing over even a
bit into not just country music. We got so big
like at its most absurd time. Do you can you
look back and appreciate it, or was it all such
a blur? No, we can look back and appreciate it,
you know. No, no, you you appreciate what you have
and and and just just from seeing, I mean, other
(48:22):
acts come along. You know, countless acts come along and
it's like here's the hottest thing in town. Here's these
guys are gonna be monsters and all that stuff, and
just like boom boom gone. It's like why are we
not boom boom gone? I don't know. That's unspoken. Yeah,
did you ever have what they call, Um, Mike, what
is it called the imposter syndrome, where you felt like,
(48:45):
you know what, we're not as good as some of
these guys, yet we continue to climb places that they're not?
Like we don't really deserve to be here. Do you
feel like that? Yeah, sincerely. Yeah, why do you think that?
What do you think the element was about you two?
What do you think it was? I don't know, I
don't have thought that. We thought about it a billion times.
I say we, you mean kids. I mean we've talked
(49:06):
about it. I don't know. I don't know if you know.
I mean I do sometimes. I said I'll lay in
bed by myself and just go it's just I mean,
was it because we were revolved with Clive Davis and Tim?
I've asked him, Dubo, I said what what made this
thing work? And he goes, Mr I don't have a clue.
(49:27):
What about the songs? Right? Do you ever just fall
back and go. Yeah, I think yes, just could be
the songs. Well, they say it starts there, so it
could be just what those songs were, you know, and
there's obviously other things that go into the stew. But
if the songs are your meat, that's the foundation of
it all. That's that's a bar on, that's that's where
it starts. Why put out? Yeah, I think that's your
(49:54):
fit solo record you just put out, and I asked
this in a complimentary way, but why? Why do you?
Why do you do sell the record? Because I don't
want to. Now I'm like a cat out of the
cage because we don't want a label deal and we're
free from that and we don't have to sit in
a boardroom and we're not subject to a corporate agenda
(50:18):
and schedule. So do you have fun doing it right? Yeah,
because it's like, you know, you shoot your ten songs,
you know, or eleven, fifteen, whatever for a corporate thing
with the label. And Uh, now and streaming helps that
a lot. But right now, and I'm just at a
point to where it's like, the money is not an issue,
but I still have that hunger and desire to create music.
(50:42):
I just love doing it. Did you ever lose it?
Did you ever get burnt out and you didn't want
to write? No, no, and I'll tell you what helped that.
Like literally, like quitting, quitting helped. That was a big deal.
You know that. You you're going to convey or about quitting.
What the band? Yeah, quit. Yeah, how long did you quit?
How long do you think you quit? I thought is,
there's like ten years and it seemed like five. But you, uh,
(51:05):
you know, you you kind of burned out. But it's
like we were at a place to where it there's
another thing in this business that's called it's the old thing.
Is because you live by the awards, you die by
the awards. Shows and and we were we had won
what what do over and and other things for for
for years, and you just kind of felt it waning.
(51:28):
And it's like the psychologically impact of setting an audience
and not winning. I said, I'm I'm not gonna let
this happen. I'm not gonna build a brand and get
it up this high and this this high and let
it let it be brought down. so by that that
piece of Tribua, which is the same going up, it's
a big important thing. Coming down it's a big, important
(51:48):
thing too, and it's like I was not gonna let it.
I was not gonna let it bring us down. So
I see the fact that you won all the awards
made it hurt worse when then you started to not
win the awards, because people want like Hey, what happened?
What happened to you guys used to win them all? Yeah,
and it got and it got to a point to
where the perception, yeah, was hey, you know, you're you're
(52:08):
slipping or whatever. But I used to be embarrassed for
for the last few years, every time they mentioned our name,
I'm going no, it's working against you know. And now
it's not like you're the Dallas Cowboys or whatever and
you've won. You won the Super Bowl twenty times in
a row. People, no matter how much they might like
your or how how where you're playing, they're they're rooting
(52:30):
for you get beat. Yeah, this culture loves to build
up and then rip you down and then watch you
climb back up again and then rip you down. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so round two? Uh No, we don't. I don't even
really go to a word shows. I mean now it's
like if they're nominating us now, but I just I
saw you got nominated again. Yeah, but like, give me
(52:50):
go in your place and then, if you win, I'll
go up and do the speech to it. Please, please,
you do a lot better speech. How you know how
awesome that would be? What your because I get I'm
telling you right now. Please do it. If it happened,
so now I have to go sit in this stip
but this is don't go buy your suit now. This
is you officially saying, though, that if I go and
(53:13):
I don't because I have a beef with them not
letting me host. Right, that's a whole different, whole different argument. Yes,
I know what that's about. So I've purposely just not
gone the last couple of years. However, you're telling me,
if you guys win, you clear it now. I gotta
have that I can go up and accept your award. Yes, absolutely, fact,
what about? Hey, listen to this, let's right now. Yeah,
(53:34):
right down. We got he kicks on the phone to
eventually point to agree. I'm wholehearted. When they do the
camera and they show all the people sitting in the audience,
I want to hold two sticks with your heads on
it and they have to put it on me holding
sticks in your heads, but you have to say that
so they know we should. It would be awesome. And
then when you win, I'll go up and I'm all
about it. I am all about it. Mike, mark this clip,
(53:57):
write it, write it down, post it. I mean, I
got about to the world. I gotta go. I gotta
go to the word show. There you go when you win,
and I'll give the greatest, most like my speech as
to why it sucks out and get the host as.
I'm just sorry. It could be all about you, baby.
I don't care. Yeah, no, I mean that that's actually
a brilliant idea. Yeah, I don't think we may not
(54:19):
do that. No, no, he'd go for it. He's totally
into that. That would that be awesome. Um, just a
couple more things. You've mentioned your wife a few times
in a very loving way and also someone it seems
like you just value her opinion on things, personally and professionally.
(54:39):
She gets consistently been a pillar in both. Yeah, I
mean I can't tell you how many times I'm coming
to bed like, you know, after listening to a song
or two or something and like feeling, you know, an
inch tall, you know, and invariable most of the time.
She's she's she's right, and she's also that, you know,
that that mountain that if, if I feel like I
can end up to it and bucket and and break
(55:02):
through it and come through with a successful song, ah,
then hey, it makes me feel better about me. Does
she challenge you? Yes, yes, mine too, but in an
awesome way. Yeah, like in a way that never been challenged. No,
I hate it at the time, you know, I hate
it at the time and I look back at it
and go, you know, who else is? Do you want
somebody around this just telling you great all the time? Sometimes,
(55:24):
you know? Yeah, well, yeah, occasionally, most time, you know what,
she's smartest. We're all insecure. Absolutely, my wife says to me.
Everywhere you go, people do a great you are, but
I'm just gonna be honest and I like and at
first that was really uncomfortable for me, but yeah, I've
never been challenged in a wonderful way like my wife
is challenged. She said before, like that joke, wasn't that
(55:44):
funny that you told and I'm like, but everybody laughed,
and she goes, but you're better than this. That's that's
Janine Dunn. Now that's a gift. If you have a
partner like that, that is a that's a gift. When
it first happened, did you get offended? Because I did.
I was like, yeah, you don't know what anything, you
never told a joke. But then, after a few times
where she was right, I'm just like that hurts by
trust you. Absolutely no, that's that's that's that's a good
(56:05):
partner right there. You know, and you and you, you'll
learn over time, whether you respect it at the time
or not, that they're right enough and they're always right.
That that you know you're, you're, you're, you're pretty much
you're hooked up with the right person. Yeah, it's tough
for me at first as far as I'd be like
what do you know about comedy, and she was like,
(56:26):
I'm not trying to give you a lesson in comedy,
but I can tell it. And then she would start
to punch up jokes better than I could write them too.
I'd sit in the bed and be like she was
what if you moved that word here? And I'm like
now I get mad that she was better than me
at it. Does the same thing. She would do it
and like end up with like her name on a
song and then next thing I know she's like from
a business meeting with the account of thing that goes.
Oh Yeah, there's your names, songwriting, business account, or gift account,
(56:48):
she calls it. How much money is in it? What
you know? You walked through the room, you were mopping
the floor while I was writing a song. You can brutal,
but it's fun. Yeah, and it has made me better. Yeah,
it hasked me by far. There's no, no, no denying it.
As crazy and as as Molltle, is it good? And
(57:10):
when my wife tells me I do something good, I
believe her because she doesn't pass those compliments out, which
is good for me too, because lame Simergen. And she
is not. She's not gonna. She's not gonna go that way,
you know. Yet she's you know, she's sweet, she's kind,
she's sensitive, she's, you know, more more slow than I am,
and it's you know. But normally I don't respect that
(57:31):
because we're all we're in this business, we're used to
the fight, you know. And Uh, but I do with her.
What's your favorite accolade that you've ever received? We were
debating on what your answer would be and I just
don't want to ask this so you can be like bragging,
but we were going through some of your stuff and
we did a whole preview before you came out talking
about your record and stuff. If I said the greatest
(57:51):
professional accolade slash achievement, what is it? Oh, it's tough.
I picked one, Mike picked. We all what we thought
you would say. I've never thought about it and I'm
bad at doing this too. I don't you know. I
don't know. I don't mean you know. Would it be
something that's trus vocal performance for a grammy or something?
(58:14):
But no, that is that he's Mike said it'd be
a grammy. Yeah, I said it would be songwriter hall
of fame. That's it. Which one? UH, songwriter? No, no,
you know what country music fame? No, your country Music
Hall of fame. Like, like, I never even thought about it.
(58:35):
Never even ranked those three though. Could you be the
call of fame? Yeah, number one. Go ahead to songwriter.
I'll got the grammy with that first. Okay, yeah, yeah,
I was that. My stepdad came to town. We took
him to go to the country Music Hall of fame
and at the time it was like every piece of
(58:58):
metal they had ever put in and it's just your
name all over every one of them. It just filled
up a whole room of all those things, of C
M as and a C M S, and I mean
do they have to send a dump truck over to
all those things out? No, dump truck. Okay, sorry, eight
Teen Wheeler wheler. Yeah, you're you guys are playing stage coach.
I kind of want to end on this, because what's
cool is you were cool, you went away. It's rare
(59:21):
that you get to be cool again, not nostalgic. Different.
You guys are cool again, and also there's the nostalgia,
but it's not all based on nostalgia. You're cool again,
do you do? You know that and you understand that right,
because you're playing stage coach and they just don't throw
up good acts from the nineties of two thousands and
the stage of stage coach. You know, I don't. I
(59:42):
don't think about that that much. Someone told me the
other day that we we played the first stage coach.
Was that all? Six? You're asking the wrong guy. I
don't know. I know someone in our camp. So that
is that right? Yeah, but uh, the music it sounds
it's the same a lot of it, but the band
(01:00:04):
is is mm hmm, it's it's different. I mean we're
like we're hitting like thirty thousand, you know people, not
festivals crowds. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, like you're not.
People aren't coming to day to just go oh, I
remember these guys. It's also young, young people are coming
to your shows, like so many of my friends that
I did a show and I had a indvitage to
(01:00:26):
come out and you could do because you had a show.
But well, even Caitlin was like, I want to go
watch Ronnie instead of your we had that because you're
playing the same night in Nashville. She's like you can
if I go watch Ronnie, and so but so many
of my friends were sending videos from your show and
there's thirties and forties and they weren't going for any
other reason other than they just love you guys music.
(01:00:46):
And so I don't know what's to be cool again twice.
That is lightning in a bottle the first time, but
the second time. Are you kidding me? Like, do you
guys talk about that? We do, we do, and once
again it's all us with wonder and we don't we
don't get it. We don't get it, but you know
so many things that they do change and I don't know,
(01:01:10):
I'm this is weird just for me to say, but
I feel like I'm singing better. UH, kicks is singing great.
The band is fabulous. His Band is very tight. Crazy.
Is it the real the guys with you, guys share
the band with? Well, we've spent, you know, off and
on seven years in Vegas and stuff and yeah, it's,
it's it's it's part of the part of the her band,
(01:01:32):
part and our our guys, but it's just completely different technologies,
different lightings, different all that. But at the same time
there's a there's a new energy that's that's not coming
from us, what it is, but it's coming from the crowd.
The show is always in the crowd. We asked people
if they have questions. I'm gonna roll through five of
(01:01:52):
these quick you answer them quick these are from our
our listeners here. Um, some of these are simple, like
what is your favorite Brooks and done song? Mm Hmm,
my favorite. Oh, all right, I guess. But neon moon
kind of had a resurgence there. UH, they come and go.
(01:02:12):
You know here you hear this whole thing. They're a lie.
My Kids, you know, I don't know. I'm pickle. You
know right now, which song would you look forward to
on the set list of most? Let's ask him like that.
What would it be? You got all these shows, you
have to when you hit that first quarter on Neon,
it's just they're, they're, they lied up. Here's one something simple.
(01:02:33):
How's he doing? How are you doing? I'm gonna do it. Yeah,
I've been fine. Yeah, I'm doing that's that's that's that's
a bad answer to saying psychology. You don't say fine.
Do you feel good? Yeah, yeah, I feel good. Mental
health good. Yeah, never, never should be. No, you ever
should always be like a little bit of attention in
life is an artist and tortured favorite person or people
(01:02:54):
to tour with. Oh, okay, now, years ago, like we
we hooked up at the Ez top now hobnout, they said.
I got to know billy gibbons and dusty frank all that.
Man became like really good friends, really cool guys really,
because be they're like the first car I got had
like a killer sound system and it was an old,
(01:03:16):
you know, Chevy Nov or something, but uh, and I
had trace hombre's just God, never heard anything like that. Uh,
you know brol haggard. I was gonna go back to haggard.
I get around haggard and but just couldn't talk. Couldn't talk.
Now I wanted to like ask him so many questions
and talk and shoot the breeze, and it's like it's
(01:03:37):
like me and you. You talk, I'm just like we're
talking about chat. You're the coolest. I can't talk. I
said to spit all over myself. When you're you're like,
what's up with you drool? I'm like no, I'm just
here with you. Okay. So a couple of things and
we're gonna wrap up on this hundred proof of neon.
You guys definitely check it out. I saw the sign,
the billboard, driving down the street. It look you up there.
(01:03:58):
What that cost us? Friend? Yeah, what did that come
don't tell me. Also, the lensman project, which you and
I have talked about before, but you're really gifted photography
and in the eye, and you know you. We've been luck.
You have to. I mean you took some nude pictures
of me once and we well, you know, you hear
(01:04:19):
chaps on. That's that's at Lensman, that Little Horse Quurt,
and you can read all about it. Kylyn, do you
have any question? One you want to ask? One question
or no? You know, you've been here. She's never come
to a single one of these. Ronnie, come do you
have any she thought the number one actould be playing
it our way. Well, he meant professionally. That was a
friendship about. That's great to hear. Hey, and it was.
(01:04:46):
It was your people that came up with the moon
that dropped out. All this guy's like that's cheating, but
asked like t steerhead that had a mirrorball on it,
but they were like we can't find one anyway. Yeah,
there's that. Almost I would know. It's terrified. I was
someone's gonna ask me to get come out, dance or something.
Just get out of here. But you know what, my
favorite picture of you, not that I look uh, is
(01:05:09):
on the your instagram thing, is you hanging out the
window of the truck with the Sonic Cup. My Wife
to this day and all the girls, my my uh niece,
runs all of our our touring stuff, but they're all
oklahoma girls and they walk around with a giant Sonic
Cup every day, all day. Yeah, well, it's been a
(01:05:34):
pleasure of my friend. It's really cool to hear about
your dad, honestly, and your wife. Like to be able
to kind of get into that a little because, you know,
on a twenty minute interview, if we were to normally
do that, I wouldn't kind of explore that area. We're
always working at a business. Yeah, yeah, but you like
that's really, really cool. I appreciate you sharing that with me.
You guys follow at Ronnie Dunn on Instagram, at Lensman,
(01:05:56):
obviously at Brooks and Dunn, and they just keep on
killing it and I'm gonna hit up kicks and be
like I need your consent to on the kicks and
if he says yes, I'm going to the show with
your heads and I'm gonna walk the red carpet speaking
for you guys. Know, I'll have him on the phone
by the time I give the front door. We're going on.
Thank you, Buddy. Right
Episode Three Sixty Four, Ronnie done from Brooks and Dune,
the lead singer of Brooks and done also solo artist,
new album, a hundred proof neon, fifth solo album, and
we will talk about all of that. This is the
rare time we recorded the intro before we do the interview.
Sometimes I'm like, be sure to listen for this, be
sure to listen for that, but I've had Ronnie on
the radio show a few times. The great thing about this,
(00:23):
what I'm looking forward to the most about this interview
you're about to hear and that we're about to do
is that we just haven't really be able to been
able to sit with him and just have room and
really dive in. And you know, in the radio we
have eight minutes or twelve minutes and we gotta keep
it moving pretty fast and it's gonna be super interesting
and this is super interesting, but we can let things develop,
(00:45):
and so I think that's why I'm most excited about
this and Ronnie coming over. And it's also cool because
when I have somebody that I know in my real
life and they come in to do the show, I
have the liberty to ask things I would never just
ask if we were hanging out. That makes sense, Mike.
That just makes sense because if I'm asking hanging out,
then it's like can we just be normal humans? But
if I ask here, I'm just doing a job. You
(01:05):
can't get very specifics and found in normal conferenation. Right. So,
Ronnie done from Brooks and Dunne, episode three sixty four.
I'M gonna ask him in the interview at some point,
and remind me of this, of all of his and
their accolades, like what's his favorite professionally? I'm gonna guess
that he may say like Songwriters Hall of fame. Oh,
not a grammy. I'm gonna Guess Songwriters Hall of fame
(01:26):
or Country Music Hall of fame. More than a grammy.
I'll go grammy. Okay, winner wins one thousand paper ones. Okay, cool, cool,
Oh yeah, Ronnie Donne, Brooks and done, please enjoy. Share
this on your instagram story if you don't mind, if
you if you liked it. We need organic sharing because
we don't have any budget for us to be shared.
So check it out. Also, check out movie Mike's Movie podcast.
You can check out my sports show as well that
(01:48):
it's called twenty five whistles Mike is the executive producer
of that show. All right, that's what's up here. Is
Ronnie done from Brooks and Dunne. Having this house was
like it's like Disney world and what simulators. Here's a
here's a crazy that you get to put all your
your posters and stuff like. What you do on the wall?
I don't well, this is a different house. This is yes,
(02:11):
so we live right there in the same property, but
this is kind of the workhouse, radio TV. But Caitlin
also tells me all the time there's too much of
my face when you walk in, which you just alluded to.
I didn't even ask you and you're like there's so
much of you. I took I take that as a
not a compliment. Well, that's cool. So I had to barn,
you know, at my house, which was like a quarter
(02:31):
mom behind the house. So it's like JENICO's take a
quarter mile back there. Yeah, take all your training kits
and all your stuff and all your bowling trophies that
you wanted over the years and you putting them back there.
And how about we just have a real, live person,
real people house? And that's what we have now. Yeah, Um,
I had my mirrorball in the living room for a
long time. Well, of course that one's not anymore. That's
(02:53):
not that's it doesn't have a mirrorble. Okay, I had
a mirrored steerhead from a tour like like eight ft tall,
you guys made for the tour. Yeah, and then I
got that's that's a small one. But like there were
massive things that they would they would. They were coming
on from the ceilings and the arenas we do neon moon.
They hit him with blue spotlights and it would just
just go the whole place. So you kept the eight
foot one. Where's the bigger ones? which the warehouse? I've
(03:16):
got to wear a house. What are you gonna do
with all that stuff? I don't know. I mean I
should have already done something with it, but I have
to go through every now and then and just just
order a dumpster for real. Our our will auction it
off for charity stuff. People are always asking for things
to sign and I'll do things like that with it.
But but what do you do with the twenty FT
(03:36):
disco ball steerhead? You're still trying to figure that out,
because it's not like you can charity that one away
and mail it no, and too there's there's a cool
story about making it. Uh. You know, we got this
big back from production company years ago when we were
doing all that stuff. You know, Arthur's doing all this
crazy stuff. We was dropping from ceilings and all that
kind of stuff. So you had to do something, you know, phenomenal,
(03:57):
weird or odd, and you're paying rent for that right now. Right. No, no,
I on on the building. Are you on the way?
That must be nice. I didn't you even worry about rant? Yeah,
but I, dude, I just have to worry about room.
You know, even with warehouses, but we would wear house
all our stuff there. And now that we were doing
in another place and everything's digital obviously now. So it's
it's more condensed. So you don't pull out any of
(04:20):
the old stuff with the new shows. Yeah, some of
the old like big stuff. You know, there's a there's
a drum set that when we were at was easy top. Uh.
That is just fantastic. The symbol holders kids or actual
things that are the drum kid. He did the kid
and and you know all the stands and stuff, because
Frank Uh from from Zz was always had these killer drums,
(04:44):
like weird crazy stuff with skulls and any any theme
that they used. So we had the guy build their
stuff to do one for us and it's it's massive
barbed wire, uh drum stands, you know, all all meshed together.
So you still use that? Have we can. And I
had a steer, a real stairhead that went in front
(05:04):
of the kick drum and of course it blew smoke
out of it. Of course. I mean if it wouldn't
have been a joke. And you that's George, straight conservative
country media throw. I just told myself what would George Do?
What would George wouldn't do this, and it sounds like
you did the opposite. You're like, well, George doing then? Well, no, no,
we listen to all the stones every now and then
we're gonna do some crazy stuff. Is that your favorite band?
(05:26):
Is that one of your favorite band's, rolling stones, Yelp,
from the day and still today. Yeah, do you ever
see him? Yeah, yeah, we we. We opened for him
in Nebraska. Dum Dumb question. I've asked you've ever seen
him and then you've opened for them. It's a Prett
dumb question, right. Yeah, yeah, pretty. Yeah. So did you
get spending time with them? Oh, yes, you get and
(05:47):
that were they nice? They were Super Nice, you know.
But before the show you get all this this stuff from,
I'm sure, the crew and the protocol, a piece of
you know whatever. Don't look him in the eye type
stuff exactly, you know, and be careful. Just just to
go to, you know, go to the rattlesnake lounge, is
what they had back then, and I said go in
there and make yourself, you know, comfortable and don't make
(06:09):
eye contact. Anyway. Yeah, they come dancing in about ten
minutes before time for the show and it was like,
I mean they were all there was. Could not have
been more kind and more hospitable and took all the
crew guys up and showed them all of keeps guitars
that were set up and just rolled out the red carpet.
(06:30):
I ended up with Mike Adams, uh mix, uh, my
buddy Mack uh with with make Jaggers, a monitor guy
for years, and I mean, you know, the world changed then.
It's just like you see what, what kind of talent
they get to deal with. It's like, you know, being
(06:52):
in a pilot and you you know, a little popera
cub and then you step into f sixteen or whatever
they are now, just crystal clear sound and office, while
still I am was meeting those guys, if I related
to a young artist WHO's twenty two and he's listened
to you, guys, and listen to you, and they're like,
Oh my God, were you like that with him? Or
(07:14):
are you not really jaded anymore, because you kind of
see what it's really all about? Well, we we, we've
been around long enough to be be, you know, confident
that what we're we gonna do is okay. And it
wasn't a frightening thing, but it was just cool to
us to get to meet him and and and do this,
do this show irving as off set up. Did you?
Do you take picture if you're famous? Do you ask
(07:35):
another famous person of for picture, or do you have
somebody coming and go, let's get a picture of you guys? Right. Well,
that's one thing that they said, dude, don't, don't ask
for pictures. So they may do it, they may not,
but anyway it was mixed and stepped up and said Hey,
let's let's take a picture. So we also end up
and get this picture. Uh, and UH. It took no,
this is no exaggeration, a minimum of three years to
get it back Clarence, our manager, new irving and it
(07:58):
was hooked up with all that bunch. and Uh so,
three years later the picture comes in to night by
ten and they're the same height as we are. I'm six,
four kicks and six. Right then we're all the same high.
So I guess that's what was going on. A little
take a lot longer to edit pictures. Then little sounds
(08:19):
like yeah, that's funny that you're all the same height
in the picture. You still have the picture? Where is
it in your house some night staying right now? Is
that one of your favorite pictures professionally of your professional career?
It's up there? UH, yeah, I don't, I don't, I
think being I found one the other day back then
on online. It was Dale Earnhardt, Johnny Paycheck, Merle Haggard,
(08:45):
me and kicks, uh, and it was talking about outlaws
or something in music. Of course kicks and there weren't outlaws,
but those guys were like as iconic as I can
imagine at the time in that world. Did you get
when you first started to blow up? Well, let's just
say you had a hit or two. What kind of lane?
(09:08):
I don't, because then again now and kind of revisionist history.
It feels like, Hey, that's brooks and Dune. They're killing it,
they're awesome, they've got so many hits and look at
him go and everybody loves them. was that at all
what it was like? Yeah, I mean, yes, no, no
pushback on those guys either. Aren't real country. Everybody gets that,
(09:31):
you know, from the press and critics and all this. Yeah,
Heck Yeah, I mean there's there's a critic Downe in Dallas.
You know, I forget his name. I think everybody on
the else house too, but he would go out of
his way to really get under your skin. With what purpose,
I don't just as he was. It was an asshole.
was he a traditionalist like and you know, I don't think. Well,
(09:51):
I don't think he was. He claimed to be if it,
if it served his purpose, you know, if I but
like one night we were a book for Billy Bob's
early on one and I literally, I mean it seed
her fever down there. I just took my know is
to lose your voice. Just lost my voice so uh,
I couldn't sing and but you have to show must
go on and I did the best I can and
(10:14):
he just shredded me the next day. Did he mention
that you were sick, or just that you couldn't sing? No,
he just he just mentioned he said that he couldn't sing.
He said it was no good. You know that. That
that kind of spirit. So, but he he can. Can
he continued that and I don't I don't know, but
he was. He was notorious for that. Still Alive. No,
I got hit by a bus. This is a joke.
(10:36):
You need to tell me if it's a joke. Hit
by got hit by bus on the way out of
Billy Bob's at night. You're not telling the truth. No, okay, see,
that's why I said this is is a joke, because because
all of a sudden I started laughing at and we
backed over the guy by accident. Well, my wife and
I are driving a couple of days ago. Let me
before I give you the story about you. What do
(10:57):
you consider? And you gotta consider at least five years
prime years of Brooks and Dunne on top of it.
What are those five to seven years? Uh, it's just
chaos and nothing but a blur. I can remember going
to Sacramento and playing Arco Arena when it was relatively
new and and setting the UH, the record for attendance, uh,
(11:21):
you know, above the the team, basketball team and things
like that. Like what it would be? Yeah, it would
be like nineties six, I would imagine, up to about
two thousand or so. Did you feel, and before I
get to her story, did you feel the the music
(11:43):
sonically changing or were youtube changing more? I remember Sonically,
you know, progressively with technology and all the things that
are involved, you know, on the that end, my idea
of improving and changing has more to do with a
sonic deal, you know. Uh. And then then, yeah, it did,
(12:07):
you know, in the start started into or maybe early
two thousand's, uh, started changing to more of a pop
you know. Definitely. Yeah, yeah, she was singing, but she
can't take the hog get on out of and she
knew every word. And I said what year is this
(12:30):
and she was like, well, it's in my wheelhouse, so
probably two thousands. She looked up two thousand three, I
believe it is the year, and I was like, Oh,
all right, that's later Brooks and dined. That's like, you know,
outside of the night, because I never heard that song. Well,
you know. Okay, speaking of Sonics, are our first record, uh,
which sold the most, many of them so far, seven
(12:51):
million C ds. But uh, it was cut in Sony
a TV. Back then it was called tree publishing, in
the basement in the demo studio that was. Those are
all cutters demos. So you're saying not a lot of
resources went into the biggest record you ever had. We
put thirties something thousand dollars into that entire album and
(13:13):
that and that's interesting you bring that up because when
I heard what's the name of that song, because you
can't take that. You still play that, by the way.
I can't take the that. That felt a little cleaner
and a little Shinier than some of the old stuff.
But we might have changed studios, you know, at that time.
Do you like that song? UH, yeah, yeah, fine, yeah,
(13:34):
the crowd's react to it, love it. No, I didn't
ask about the crowd, like do you. Has a lot
to do, I know, but we're talking about you, because
you know I'm a massive fan. Yeah, well, I look
back at it right now and my wife is usually
my voice on that. She'll she'll go. You know, you
don't need to be doing that now, you know. Uh, yeah,
Connie came back from it like a cousin's wedding. You know,
(13:55):
I can't take the Hokkut the girl anyway, and she'll
she'll go. You know, do you feel we're doing that now?
You know, she says take take it somewhere else, try
to try to grow or progress, you know, but what
does that mean? I don't know. It's just just music
to me. I'm not trying to chase a trend. Radio
had a lot to do with with with that, you know,
(14:17):
in whatever way it always has. Uh. And where where
the labels would would get involved, for the most part
on the corporate side, and go look, we you know,
radio is not gonna play this. Radio, radio players this,
you know. But some of my some of my favorite songs,
are better songs, are been redi songs that that probably
(14:37):
wouldn't have been played on radio. But I think a
lot of people say that, but then they're they're more esoteric. Yeah,
you know, yeah, not as palatable for it, but for
the general part of people who aren't die hard brooks
and Dune, yes, right, yeah, that's who you're trying to get.
You'RE gonna get your people regardless. It's like, what can
you create that's also going to reach out a little
farther and hopefully people get a taste and you can't
(14:58):
criticize that. People do. I've done my share of it,
but now I realize, no, that's that's a that's a
business plan that works. You know, did you change schools
a lot as a kid? Change Schools? Oh, uh, twelve,
twelve to schools in UH. No, thirteen schools in twelve years. What?
You can't even really build a group. No, you can't,
(15:21):
you can't. No, you're you're always a new kid and uh,
all the way. I started on a reservation in farming
to New Mexico and I was the only Anglo kid
there because we lived on an oilties. My Dad was
in the pipeline. Is that why you move so much?
Because of Your Dad's job? Yeah, is that a bit?
(15:42):
Why you perform? Because you you know, you just like
therapy type stuff, but you move so much you never
really have stability within a friendship group. You never really
have that closeness. So also you have to kind of
be somebody new all the time. I have to perform
for new friends quickly. You go to one school and
(16:02):
you'd be cool, different, different dress, different vibe, different personality
of the school, you know, and you need to kind
of tell learn to be you know, became a communion
at times. Do you think that moving around a lot
affected your desire to perform? No, I never I never
wanted to be. I never wanted to perform. I was
good playing bass in the background and my dad played guitar.
(16:26):
His dream was to become a country singer period. I
mean everything else was was second nature. He was good enough.
He was good enough because he try. He did try. Yeah,
he had a radio station, a radio show on at
a radio station in the fifties when I was born. Uh, uh,
in Abdeen and Texas. Uh, it was called that. The
(16:46):
band was called the Fox four seven. I think it's
a KRBC. And so he did a show and also
had a band that performed on the show. And how
far did he get? Like what? What was his well,
the big thing back then there was a dj out
of Fort Worth in Dallas called Bill Mack, and he
was kind of like you know, your name, of the
name of Big Jack. You in the day. It's like Jack. Well, yeah, yeah,
(17:10):
I'll be bones. Not Me. I'm not a Djil what
what are you? You're more than that. But they're always
more than that, program directors, all that stuff. No, no no,
don't compare me to other they're always I'm not a DJ,
I don't. I might play three songs in an hour
and don't even pick them. I perform wherever I am.
I say things. I'm a personality. Okay, I'll go with that. Not. No,
(17:31):
you're not. You're definitely not limited to to to this
UH dynamic in space. No, you're not. I see you
like doing comedy, uh, you know, out playing with the
band on all kinds of TV shows. Now listen to
your climbing mountain. Let's go back to your let's go
back to your dad. So he's he's got a radio
(17:52):
show and he's also a singer in a band. And
so can he play his own music on on that show? So,
and he's playing? They playing live? Yeah, he would right. Yeah, yeah,
they had to play live back then. They would do
all that crazy stuff. So he I'm assuming that he
toured some, at least regionally, with the band. He did, yes,
when I was young, and then then all that stuff.
(18:13):
You can he had to move with his job to
keep you know, he's still doing oil at and music. Yeah, yeah,
and I still had had to go with that and
then he had to feed his family. So and never
getting transferred a lot. You know, the pipeline business. He
isn't theory, you know. Did he always hold on to
the dream even as he was doing? Well, yes, I
never ever showed any real interest in in pursuing music
(18:38):
at all. I can remember my grandmother, his mother, uh like,
talking to me as a young kid and I've never understood.
I thought was random. There was a guy next door
who was in a band that they traveled all the time.
She goes, Oh, you don't ever want to be involved
with that. You're gone all the time. There's so much
downside of whatever it is. And and just they would
plant these little, you know, subtle subconscious sea and uh,
(19:01):
you know about that's just something you don't want to do. Well,
my mother's parents lived a block away, so I'd go
down there and they were super religious. My grandfather was
big main deacon in the Emmanuel Baptist Church in Eldreda, Arkansas,
and uh, you know, David, their deal was. His big
thing was I was the oldest of sixteen grandkids. He
(19:22):
just goes, I want one of my one of my
grandson's place to be a minister and I think that's
where I picked that up later on. Just it sounds
like you picked up both, just at different times. Yeah, yeah,
and I was I was trying to you know, you're
you're young, and your your impression when you absorbed, you know,
that stuff. So I went off to, you know, the
next thing you know, littly behold, I go off to Abilene,
(19:43):
Texas to to like study, you know, Bible and the ministry.
What did your dad say about that? He was a
church Gud. UH, he didn't say any anything about that.
It was just like to him for us to even
think about college. It was something that wasn't on the
(20:07):
on the radar. Was Your Dad resentful at all that
he'd never got a fair shot because he had to
work in oil and feel like he's gonna Think? So
hurt a bit. Yes, and that that was one thing
I was afraid of en I sensed, uh yeah, extremely competitive,
(20:27):
you know, uh for for numerous reasons we won't go
into but uh yeah, it was that. And and he
died before he died at the age of sixty two
before I really got a got a handle or hold
in professional music. What's your mom think about you going
(20:48):
to be a pastor, hardened Simmons, abiliant Christian, all that. Yeah,
she was all all for it, all for it. Is that?
Because she thought it would make you a good dude? Yeah, yeah,
it's just a better influence you. You're not getting out
there in the real world. So when I told her
I was always taught by her and she was very conservative.
Couldn't dance, any of that. Couldn't stuff. We couldn't go
to the school sack hops back then. She baptist. You said, yeah,
(21:11):
because I got up in a Baptist Church and the
other Baptist churches couldn't dance. But they never really told
us not to, but I knew that was the Baptist thing.
That was almost a methodist then. Yeah, so she she
never never saw dance. No, no, no, she she felt
like that that if you danced it lead to sex
and that was evil. I can tell you the first
dand it didn't. I'll tell you I never got just
(21:36):
to prove it. Until you know, you make it work
with a a little te Kay lie, I don't know. You
go to school and what's it like, your first day
of going to school to spend the rest of your
life preaching the word of God. UH, yeah, I didn't
know if I would be specifically a preacher. I thought,
(21:56):
you know, I could be like a, you know, spiritual
or religious counselor or or psychologists. Uh, and then I
learned real quick that that, the second that I had
to step up and speak in front of a crowd,
that that wasn't from me. So you didn't even have
the performance like bug whenever it was time to speak.
(22:20):
What you think you're gonna do with the rest of
your life? No, would know. You had to do it
to get to get licensed. This is so weird. I
didn't know this. I'm too young to know this. To
get licensed as a minister, that you get licensed and
then you get ordained. So, uh, if you're licensed, you
have to you have to go up and preach a sermon.
So this uh pastor we had in UH South Texas port, Isabel,
(22:43):
had me go up and do a sermon, which was
the biggest nightmare in my life. Remember, horrible, horrible. I
remember thinking thirty minutes, thirty what you know? No, I
mean it was awful. You know how to do? You
know how he is standing up as a comedian in
front of people, period and trying to hold that crowd.
All you have to do. And it's the same, same concept.
(23:05):
You know, do you remember what it was on? No, no,
I don't know. I was wrong. I don't know. so
you decide through experience you don't want to do this.
So that both. Then what do you do? You could
you just quit, or do you have to call your folks? No, no, no, no,
I tried. I tried to like like in my way
(23:25):
over a little bit. So I changed the psychology and
then I really got into that and enjoyed it and
I did it for but at the same time I
was involved in music. We would go out and play.
Uh Uh, are you playing bass? Yeah, so you're not.
You're not even singing in the band that you're in. Well,
I would sing a few songs, yeah, but I would.
(23:46):
Obviously I got to where I was a good bass
player and I could play by ear. That's another thing,
because if you're going out with with like pickup bands
and on the weekends, you kind of have to pretty
much no how to go, how to wing it, because
you're not gonna know all those songs. So I could
play by your were you comfortable performing as a singer? UH, not.
At first. No, in fact I wasn't comfortable performing as
(24:06):
a singer, even with Brooks and Dunna, you know. Well,
after Neon Moon came along, that's the first time that
I I like. They told me to hold a mic
and just stand there and sing or go go to
one side of the stage, go to the other. If well,
development like shaking, and I did that. So you're playing bass,
you're singing some. Yeah, you're going to school. I mean,
(24:30):
you didn't. You're not a preacher, you're not a Christian psychologist,
I don't know. College was not for me. I hated it.
How far did you go? UH, seven years, I mean
seven hours from graduating abnormal stye and statistics. You got
that close. Yeah, I was gonna come home for the
summer work on the pipeline with my dad and then, uh,
(24:52):
go back and finish up, and I never, never finished up.
I just I got involved with with bands. They had
moved to Tulsa Oklahoma about then from south South Texas,
and uh, I got involved with all these cool bands.
Eric Clapton's band was there. Uh, she's Bonnie Ray, J
J Kale Joe Cocker. Shelter records was was working out
(25:15):
there in l a at the same time. So, yeah,
so you your guys are in Tulsa now. Is that
when Oklahoma comes into play for you at that stage
of your life? Yeah, so, am I thinking you? I
mean I just think of Oklahoma first and foremost. I
don't know, I guess probably because that's all you and
my wife talked about for twenty minutes before we even
(25:36):
did this and you wouldn't stop talking and acknowledge that
I existed. But other than that, so usual girl. You
move up to you move up to Oklahoma at age three. UH, yeah, yeah, yeah,
and I fell right in with these guys who were
involved with ly on Russell and uh, when it was
an architect buddy, Steve Bush, was his name. Are you
(25:58):
playing Bass with these guys? Uh, not with them, no,
but but I was playing with base, with local bands,
a bunch of good local bands, and tons of places
to play, you know, like like like here. When we
first moved to Nashville there was no place to play,
and now as Broadway as rocking. So it was kind
of that deal. We would that people would club hop
you know, and uh, go hear bands, but not not many.
(26:18):
Are Those guys from that group? Were involved in country
at all, but Tulsa had a big country singing or
Johnny Lee Wills and a bunch of other people. So
are you singing more? I'm trying to find whenever you
started to realize you're actually better than most vocally, you know.
Are you singing more than you were? Are you still
just singing a few playing the base on most? I'll
(26:40):
tell you the thing that really broke. Uh, urban cowboys
thing kicked off, like started and we were hitting up
to them like little you know, little regional clubs and
just beer joints really, but that's I mean, where else
do you go if you want to be a football player?
or I mean it's a Canada. You have to go
to the gym, you have to you have to play
football school, junior high and all that stuff, you know.
(27:02):
So you go to these beer joints and you do it. UH,
there was a lady here, Mary John Wilkins, would work
with Christmas Jefferson, that I businited with a one point
before it all started. Don't let me get you too
far off track, but uh, she called him skull orchards.
She said she's a love the way you thing. She
just says you're gonna have to go get some some
experience in these skull orchards, and I was like, what
(27:23):
the what? What Reps? She just wants to go. That's
not a pretty picture day one. So, anyway, I actually
went to Oklahoma and did that. You know, I would
call these places up and go book for, you know,
three hundred dollars a night, two hundred fifty dollars a
night if they had it, and played for the door
in Texas. Now, uh, like I said, VF obvious. We
(27:44):
played for that and try to build the crowds up
over a few weeks or or month two and, uh,
whatever work. We'd stayed as long as we could. And
it's just working out playing, yeah, but even singing, you're
you're you're training that muscle. Yeah, right, I mean you're
seeing four week so I'm in Tulsa and the Urban
Cowboy Movement thing happens and uh, they start building this
(28:06):
massive club called Duke's country, uh, and I mean huge
it was. It was a converted furniture factory and I
mean there's nothing for three thousand people a night to
be there on the weekends, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Sometimes Thursdays. Uh,
a guy from a steel player ball thing, from a
(28:29):
gate mouth Brown's Band who was a blues player, uh
came to my door one one day and, uh, he said,
I'm putting together a band. He said, would you be
the lead singer for it, for our house band at Dukes,
and I'm like no, yes, I guess yes. So we
put together a band and uh kept a job for
two or three years, several years. There's a good run
(28:52):
for club stuff. Was that your first spot at being
just I mean you're the lead did you find you
liked it more than you thought? UH, yeah, loved it.
To make you think of Your Dad, always, always, I
always do any anytime. I mean he's always you know.
That's always the image and you know the motive back
there that I think. You know, I just think that's
(29:14):
like how did I end up cosmically living my father's dream? Yeah,
do you think he would be proud looking at you now?
You think it's super cool. Yeah, too cool. I have
to lock him away. You know, he was. He was
very pinonated, very country, very, very traditional country. Back to that,
(29:37):
you know, Hank Williams days and all that. UH, artist
TUB real way into that he takes you to any
concerts as a kid? Yeah, did you see? Uh you
remember your first ever young loves, sweet love. Who was that?
Sunny James? He played guitar with him for a little while.
(29:59):
He would come any dude do cup stuff with him.
And Uh, yes, I remember going to Sonny James Concert.
I was small. Uh. But yeah, did you ever, and
I don't know how old you were, when you're dead,
taking to concerts? Do you ever see Um? I don't know.
He loved Hank Senior. That was probably the way before you, though.
I'm sing when he was way before you. Anybody come
(30:21):
through town and you can remember and being like, Dang,
I saw them before they actually turned into the superstar
that everybody knows. Well, I didn't Tulsa. Yeah, a lot
we we opened for per ricky's cage when he just
had his first song out Lee Greenwood, when he just
that's that's where they would they would land in no
size venues and then then work their way up. But
you know Johnny Lee coming out of urban cowboy. But
(30:42):
of course I was a big, big thing at the time. Uh. Yeah,
you're singing Rodney kraw yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I love Rodney. Yeah,
that's really cool too. You're singing in Tulsa, you're regionally playing.
But when when do you go? I gotta go to Nashville.
Or did someone said you gotta go to Nashville? She
just said, you know, and for the for for you
to make this happen, you're gonna have to just you're
(31:03):
gonna have to jump out of the plane. Man, he
says you're gonna get up. Did you not want to
jump out of the plane? I was afraid, you know
that Nash Nashville scared me to death. You know, there's
it's a feast or famine environment. You know, there's no
there's no middle ground here, and I did not I
want to be get involved in the dark in the
dark side. You Pack Up, you're throwing a car, you
(31:31):
get a trailer, like what? What's? What's okay? So Janine
had had had been put for five years and uh
a friend introduced us and uh she and her ex
husband are not ex husband, but past husband. Uh, what
(31:51):
do you call it? Help me if you die anyway. Uh,
she she was. Come to find out, I didn't know
going in that she was friends with June car cash
and Johnny cash that they were best friends. Well, he
her husband, her late husband, had made the car one
(32:15):
piece of time. That the John Thing about. Okay, so
she goes, I'm gonna take you to Nashville, and she
said that's what I saw somewherey gonna be able to
do it and and and introduce you to John. And
Jenny said we SCO up their friends. We're not gonna
stay much of anything except that Eric Clapton's drummer. Backing
up her step here, Eric Clapton's drummer, Jamie oldecker. As
(32:37):
a joke one night, had entered my name in the
Marlborough talent round up contest. Okay, so you have to
submit a tape. You know. They get it. They called
it back. She says I was a convenient store one night.
I said I ripped one of the like interest forms
up and uh sent it into him. Uh, and I'm
like a dude, this, this, this is someone cool with.
(33:00):
We were cool even at that level. We were we're
playing beer joints and S barbander down. So he goes,
I did it, I did it, we're going anyway. So
sure enough, we get it. We get into the regional
part of the contest. Then you go to whatever the
next event, and it's bands, bands all over the country,
(33:21):
and then you end up here in Nashville doing the
final for that and we want it. And remember Ricky's
gags was it was a guest. I mean I judge,
I can't remember who else was it. We want it. Yeah,
and Uh then you get like thirty three thousand dollars
and UH, recording session with Barry Beckett at the time
(33:46):
and Scott Hendrix and uh we cut boot Scoot and
neon moon and one more hold up in some honkey
talk by Dean Dillon. Who is we? The band? Had
A band. Yeah, I'm sorry, what's the name of the band?
They eventually became the tractors. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's
(34:07):
just Bonnie rights, piano player. I got clapped as drummer
and we're all like that, we're in a band. Yeah, yeah, so, yeah,
so you took that band originally cut a couple of
those songs, but they weren't that band at the time.
They were just we're just, we're just going yeah, wow.
So you make that record on thirty three dollars, basically
three or four songs. That's not a record, but songs. Yeah, right, yeah.
(34:29):
What do you do with it, though? Yeah, what do
you do with the record? Uh No, I mean we thought,
we thought, okay, well, at least we get a good,
good foothold and uh, you know, we're getting to do
some some stuff around it. And we did. They, Marlboro
put us on tour, a military tour, which was actually
a blast. It was massive, stages, George Straight, Oh God,
(34:54):
Ricky Skaggs, Alan Jackson, I mean everybody. I mean we
got to open the show for all those people, and uh,
we thought, well, this is the beginning of it. We'll
get a record doing the way we go. Well, that
ended and then, you know, three years later, I'm out
weed eating, you know, the fans at the at the farm.
(35:15):
So what the Hell am I doing here? I thought,
I thought, this is my way too into it. The
same principle. That works with, you know, the other you
know shows that we watched today. The voice that is
not that's not the ticket to the big time, right,
it's a ticket to get a little flash that maybe
people can pay attention to you so then you can start.
That's that's what I tell I'm like, use this platform
(35:36):
to get a good place to start. Yeah, you're not.
You're not on your way. You know not. You can
make a few contacts and relationships through a little flash
that you can get enough of a hold. And and
that said, I did. Scott Hendrix took the tape to
attempt Dubois, who was starting heirs to records at the
time and just trying to fill in a balanced roster.
(35:59):
And Uh, Clive Davis was was behind it, of course,
because that never hurts. UH, at a time in the
business when it was not a great, great time to
start a label. But tell Clive Davis that right. So
Tim comes out and here and here's me in Tulsa,
because he's from Grove Oklahoma. Caitlin, I don't know what
(36:20):
grove they had like a moment where they're like, you know,
groove right on grand leg. Anyway, anyway, here's this play
and he goes okay, after we get through Texi back
and goes okay, I'm gonna tell you this. He says
hold tide for me. He says, just like I'm going somewhere, right, yeah, right,
I got the other side of the fence to wheatie. Uh,
(36:42):
and he says, I'm I'm putting the record Labor together
Alan Jackson and Pam tell us diamond Rio and he said,
I'm I'm up to something here. She says, if you're
just just have a little faith and patience in me,
I'm gonna go there. So you know, a year later
I didn't heard anything from him. A year. Yeah, that's
a lot of patience. Well, where else do you go?
I don't have choice. Yeah, UH, sure enough. I uh.
(37:05):
Janine comes down one day and tells me to put
the weed either down and come up to the house,
get on the phone and she says I called him
to bond and see what's going on, because I'm just
I'm sure I wouldn't do that, you know. And she's not.
I called him and he goes, Mr he said, this
is unreal. He said, I'm sitting here with my Rollo
decks right now looking for your number. I went, no,
(37:25):
you're not, and he goes yes, I am, because I
want to cut boots, goot boogie. I'm thinking the flash
me with me. He goes with a sleep at the wheel.
So I just signed myself. Okay, great, you know, knock
it out. And he said come down to Nashville. He says,
I'm gonna, you know, talk to you when we get
through and listen to the record. So what with? Janine
and I got in this car, drove to Nashville and uh,
(37:48):
it was he played it for us and it's sleep
at the wheel. Did, of course, as a swing song,
bomp bomb, and I thought it, I thought and we
both just went jenny and I were like, Oh, it's
not gonna work and a fly and uh so they
ran through their cycle there and then, uh finally Tim said, okay,
it's time to move here. You know, this is your
(38:10):
your later, you're after that. He said. Time to move here,
he said, and I'll get you, I'll get you hooked
up as a as a writer at one of the
publishing companies. And Uh, he just called out all the
blue one day after June Carter had already called Janina said, uh,
she called her witter, witter patch. That was that was
your name, is married name. UH, she's a witter. Uh
(38:32):
would you mind even Ronnie maybe staying at having written
Lord of the cabins up on the mountain, which was
outside of town in Gillettsville. And Uh Janina started crying.
She was like, Oh my God, yes, please, I'll be
close to June, was a friend of hers and all this.
So we did uh, UH, Tim put kicks and now
(38:53):
together to write with another, another writer in town, Don Cook. Don't,
don't dump ahead. Hold on. Did you ever got met
Johnny Cash? She drove. Yes, she brought me in to
meet him. where? To his house and Hendersonville. Are you nervous? Yeah,
I'm scared of death. I don't I don't want to
meet them. And I know they're thinking, Hey, you know,
she's bringing you know, I want to be singer into
(39:14):
my house, just just like what I would do with
one of my daughters, just like Ah, please, right. Uh.
So June takes her out and you know just uh,
John had just given June a blue on Blue Rolls
Royce for her birthday, you know. So we rolled up
to their house and all this austentatious stuff is outside
(39:34):
and uh go in. Nervous, yes, more nervous as you
walk closer. Yes, okay, it gets worse. So the girls
after after day one, you know, we all stopped and
eat all this stuff. John's real quiet. He's quite at first,
you know, and he says he's intimidating anyway. Right, and
then under those circumstances, I'm going. You know, I don't.
(39:55):
I don't wanna, you know, I wanna be here like this.
So the next today, June and Janine go shopping and
leave me and John Alone at the house. Well, there
were two big black recliners in front of the TV
like that on the wall and uh, he's sitting there
watching CNN and I just sat down with a cup
(40:17):
of coffee and I sat there. I said something going
on in the news and he goes, I always watch it,
always watching. He says, I'm an addict. He says I'll
watch the TV until the loop changes. He says, you
know that the CNN and all that stuff aroung loops,
and I'm like no, and uh, he goes, I just
(40:39):
watch it, you know, two loops whatever. You know. That
was kind of the only thing I remember. It just
kind of didn't say much. He's like, you want to
go fishing? What are you doing? You want to be
in music, nothing like that. So Janine gets back and
she's kind of Pale. She's kind of like down, and
that's not like her because she's a chatter. And Uh,
(41:01):
finally we we went back to the bedroom and she
she said how did it go? And she goes, well,
June just gave she read of me the Right Act,
you know. She goes, look, you know, because Rodney and
Roseanne had been been married and the girls carline and
all of them, and junior had her struggles with John Too.
And she said, uh, it's it's it's not a it's
not a pretty business. She goes, you know, these these boys,
(41:24):
she says, they're gonna act up on you. You know,
they're gonna get out there and, you know, theoretically, do whatever.
And she says, you know, it's just not it's not
a good life. Even if he does make it, she
said the chances are, you know, one in a hundred
million that they, even if they make it, will they last?
She says, you don't, you don't. You don't want that life.
(41:44):
You don't have to have that life. So Janice said,
I'm you know, that's just kind of bummed me out
and I said, well, okay, let's let's go. But we didn't.
We stayed and and and had had I had a
good time, but that was just kind of what we
were left with their but at the same time, June
was kind enough, uh, to to do whatever they could
(42:05):
to help and they did. And half the time, more
than half the time, I would go to go up
to take the rent or play the rent, six hundred
bucks or something like that. This house looked like something
did Johnny's House. He would take the rent to Johnny
cash's house. Yeah, and just drop away. They had like
a hole for the thing. The wouldn't take it. No, June,
I'd say, June, I'm a run over and and leave
the rent and she goes, honey, don't do that, she said,
(42:25):
don't do that. Yeah, you don't, there's no need for
you to do that. We're not worried about that. UH, anyway.
So they wouldn't take it. Did they ever take your rent? No.
How long did you live there? UH, year and a half.
Two years. No, two years. Did did you ever get
closer to Johnny? Uh, yeah, Oh, yeah, yeah, no, no,
Johnny would come up. There was another it's a little
(42:45):
unclever with cabins in good listen on top of hill
that uh, they had built real cool and uh he
would come up and stay and spend the weekends and
stuff sometimes up there just to be alone. and He'd
stopped at the House and uh, and I told him
right okay, I get a record deal with their stuff
as a solo artists. Well, I'm thinking as a solo
(43:07):
artist and I'm still writing and and Tim says, uh,
one day he goes, come over here, he says, we're
gonna spend the day and I'm gonna take you to
every publishing company in town. And I had written, like
I said to neon moon boots, could hard working man.
She's to be alling that kind of stuff. Uh, no,
one actually super excited. And he goes, but I'm I'm
waiting to take you to to Sony a TV for
(43:30):
to Donna Hilly, and he said that that's where I
want you. He said that's that's in his period, but
the best place in town. So, uh, sure enough, she
calls one day and says, Hey, I'm gonna give you
a deal. She said. Then I've been how does like,
you know, a month sound? I was like, I'll take
it now. and Uh so I was set up as
(43:55):
a writer in in in a great spot and uh
Tim put me into kicks together and I'm thinking, but
you've heard this story, but a lot of people have.
But UH kicks. Just thinking, well, he's writing songs with
me for my solo deal. unbeknonest to me, he had
been working on another duo deal at Aras for him. Ye,
(44:18):
him and someone else. Yes, Tim Tim Nichols. It was
who the first one was, and I heard that, had
I not worked out, it was gonna be Libroy Pardell.
That's funny. How about it? They were shopping kicks to
a lot of really it was like kicks, you're half
of something great. You'RE gonna be. Yeah, you'RE gonna be. Buddy,
you know you want to be in a duo. Uh,
(44:39):
it sounds like three duos aline. Do you know? I
don't know. You have to ask kicks. I don't know,
but he'll he'll tell the same story. He said. Man,
I thought, you know, he was writing for me and
I'm writing to him. So, uh, Tim comes in one
day and he has everything in his office lined up
and UH plays, plays all of our music together, you know,
and he goes. I think I ink with the first
(45:02):
song that that we had written together was brand new, man, uh,
and working on my next broken heart and, uh what else?
But you wrote that in a day or in a week,
like a couple of days together. But you stay together
right for a couple of days yeah, I'd never co
written before, so I didn't know, you know, what the
protocol was and uh, we did that, put the records
(45:25):
together and, did you know, some work on them individually ourselves.
was there a creative chemistry that you felt then, or
was it did you just sound good, or did you
compliment each other in a way that you hadn't before?
It just it felt good. I liked I liked what
he had brought to the table. It was lost and
found and a couple of songs that were like almost
eagles progressive, and I liked that. That kind of I
(45:49):
was really, you know, in my creative zen place thinking
if we were gonna market ourselves as kind of a southwestern,
east west of the missis it be, you know, desert
kind of then that's southwest deal. Did you guys? And
let's we'll just smash forward just a little bit. But
did you guys ever have other names for the group
(46:11):
set for Brooks and done? Yeah, we said for a
day it was gonna be the coyote brothers and, you know,
the CACTUS brothers. We don't know, we said and filled
up a notebooks and finally it just you know, I
left town and came back for after a weekend. Everybody said,
let's just call it brooks and done. Yeah, they were
just exhausted at all that, that number desert references. So
nothing felt right. You know, I don't know how does it,
(46:35):
because you're both singers and I've been to more than
a few shows that you guys, and kick sings awesome.
It's too awesome too. And he has he, I mean
he kicks has. Yes, how was that? His name's first,
and then you get to sing more songs or like,
how does that when you're both good? Here's the name,
here's how the name thing worked out, and people go
(46:55):
how that happened. It's like his brother in law owned
a big AD company up in Maine. We wanted to
logo bad so we kind of laid out the basics,
and who came back with you? The Brooks have done,
because it laid out graphically better. Uh, there, it could
be done in Brooks, but brooks have done. You know
by now it just seems natural. You know the Beatles, right,
(47:18):
what a freaking name? Really, who would you call yourself? Yeah,
it sounds successful. You are the normal. The name gets. Yeah, yeah,
when did it get the most absurd to you? With
and again. But you guys were also in their thirties
right when it started. I wonder if that helped it
all with a little bit the absurdity of how crazy
it got. It did it did, and a lot of
the challenges we would have had. You know, you kind
of helps you like fight through the kind of the
(47:40):
unspoken ego tension that goes along with with anything you're
trying to establish. Your turf is, you know, are you
going to be the you know, the lead singer, or
am I going to be the lead singer? Hey, we're
good to throw it together. We we always have. It's
just kind of and I think being older helped help
deal with that. When you're in these shows and they're
(48:01):
selling out and you guys are crossing over even a
bit into not just country music. We got so big
like at its most absurd time. Do you can you
look back and appreciate it, or was it all such
a blur? No, we can look back and appreciate it,
you know. No, no, you you appreciate what you have
and and and just just from seeing, I mean, other
(48:22):
acts come along. You know, countless acts come along and
it's like here's the hottest thing in town. Here's these
guys are gonna be monsters and all that stuff, and
just like boom boom gone. It's like why are we
not boom boom gone? I don't know. That's unspoken. Yeah,
did you ever have what they call, Um, Mike, what
is it called the imposter syndrome, where you felt like,
(48:45):
you know what, we're not as good as some of
these guys, yet we continue to climb places that they're not?
Like we don't really deserve to be here. Do you
feel like that? Yeah, sincerely. Yeah, why do you think that?
What do you think the element was about you two?
What do you think it was? I don't know, I
don't have thought that. We thought about it a billion times.
I say we, you mean kids. I mean we've talked
(49:06):
about it. I don't know. I don't know if you know.
I mean I do sometimes. I said I'll lay in
bed by myself and just go it's just I mean,
was it because we were revolved with Clive Davis and Tim?
I've asked him, Dubo, I said what what made this
thing work? And he goes, Mr I don't have a clue.
(49:27):
What about the songs? Right? Do you ever just fall
back and go. Yeah, I think yes, just could be
the songs. Well, they say it starts there, so it
could be just what those songs were, you know, and
there's obviously other things that go into the stew. But
if the songs are your meat, that's the foundation of
it all. That's that's a bar on, that's that's where
it starts. Why put out? Yeah, I think that's your
(49:54):
fit solo record you just put out, and I asked
this in a complimentary way, but why? Why do you?
Why do you do sell the record? Because I don't
want to. Now I'm like a cat out of the
cage because we don't want a label deal and we're
free from that and we don't have to sit in
a boardroom and we're not subject to a corporate agenda
(50:18):
and schedule. So do you have fun doing it right? Yeah,
because it's like, you know, you shoot your ten songs,
you know, or eleven, fifteen, whatever for a corporate thing
with the label. And Uh, now and streaming helps that
a lot. But right now, and I'm just at a
point to where it's like, the money is not an issue,
but I still have that hunger and desire to create music.
(50:42):
I just love doing it. Did you ever lose it?
Did you ever get burnt out and you didn't want
to write? No, no, and I'll tell you what helped that.
Like literally, like quitting, quitting helped. That was a big deal.
You know that. You you're going to convey or about quitting.
What the band? Yeah, quit. Yeah, how long did you quit?
How long do you think you quit? I thought is,
there's like ten years and it seemed like five. But you, uh,
(51:05):
you know, you you kind of burned out. But it's
like we were at a place to where it there's
another thing in this business that's called it's the old thing.
Is because you live by the awards, you die by
the awards. Shows and and we were we had won
what what do over and and other things for for
for years, and you just kind of felt it waning.
(51:28):
And it's like the psychologically impact of setting an audience
and not winning. I said, I'm I'm not gonna let
this happen. I'm not gonna build a brand and get
it up this high and this this high and let
it let it be brought down. so by that that
piece of Tribua, which is the same going up, it's
a big important thing. Coming down it's a big, important
(51:48):
thing too, and it's like I was not gonna let it.
I was not gonna let it bring us down. So
I see the fact that you won all the awards
made it hurt worse when then you started to not
win the awards, because people want like Hey, what happened?
What happened to you guys used to win them all? Yeah,
and it got and it got to a point to
where the perception, yeah, was hey, you know, you're you're
(52:08):
slipping or whatever. But I used to be embarrassed for
for the last few years, every time they mentioned our name,
I'm going no, it's working against you know. And now
it's not like you're the Dallas Cowboys or whatever and
you've won. You won the Super Bowl twenty times in
a row. People, no matter how much they might like
your or how how where you're playing, they're they're rooting
(52:30):
for you get beat. Yeah, this culture loves to build
up and then rip you down and then watch you
climb back up again and then rip you down. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so round two? Uh No, we don't. I don't even
really go to a word shows. I mean now it's
like if they're nominating us now, but I just I
saw you got nominated again. Yeah, but like, give me
(52:50):
go in your place and then, if you win, I'll
go up and do the speech to it. Please, please,
you do a lot better speech. How you know how
awesome that would be? What your because I get I'm
telling you right now. Please do it. If it happened,
so now I have to go sit in this stip
but this is don't go buy your suit now. This
is you officially saying, though, that if I go and
(53:13):
I don't because I have a beef with them not
letting me host. Right, that's a whole different, whole different argument. Yes,
I know what that's about. So I've purposely just not
gone the last couple of years. However, you're telling me,
if you guys win, you clear it now. I gotta
have that I can go up and accept your award. Yes, absolutely, fact,
what about? Hey, listen to this, let's right now. Yeah,
(53:34):
right down. We got he kicks on the phone to
eventually point to agree. I'm wholehearted. When they do the
camera and they show all the people sitting in the audience,
I want to hold two sticks with your heads on
it and they have to put it on me holding
sticks in your heads, but you have to say that
so they know we should. It would be awesome. And
then when you win, I'll go up and I'm all
about it. I am all about it. Mike, mark this clip,
(53:57):
write it, write it down, post it. I mean, I
got about to the world. I gotta go. I gotta
go to the word show. There you go when you win,
and I'll give the greatest, most like my speech as
to why it sucks out and get the host as.
I'm just sorry. It could be all about you, baby.
I don't care. Yeah, no, I mean that that's actually
a brilliant idea. Yeah, I don't think we may not
(54:19):
do that. No, no, he'd go for it. He's totally
into that. That would that be awesome. Um, just a
couple more things. You've mentioned your wife a few times
in a very loving way and also someone it seems
like you just value her opinion on things, personally and professionally.
(54:39):
She gets consistently been a pillar in both. Yeah, I
mean I can't tell you how many times I'm coming
to bed like, you know, after listening to a song
or two or something and like feeling, you know, an
inch tall, you know, and invariable most of the time.
She's she's she's right, and she's also that, you know,
that that mountain that if, if I feel like I
can end up to it and bucket and and break
(55:02):
through it and come through with a successful song, ah,
then hey, it makes me feel better about me. Does
she challenge you? Yes, yes, mine too, but in an
awesome way. Yeah, like in a way that never been challenged. No,
I hate it at the time, you know, I hate
it at the time and I look back at it
and go, you know, who else is? Do you want
somebody around this just telling you great all the time? Sometimes,
(55:24):
you know? Yeah, well, yeah, occasionally, most time, you know what,
she's smartest. We're all insecure. Absolutely, my wife says to me.
Everywhere you go, people do a great you are, but
I'm just gonna be honest and I like and at
first that was really uncomfortable for me, but yeah, I've
never been challenged in a wonderful way like my wife
is challenged. She said before, like that joke, wasn't that
(55:44):
funny that you told and I'm like, but everybody laughed,
and she goes, but you're better than this. That's that's
Janine Dunn. Now that's a gift. If you have a
partner like that, that is a that's a gift. When
it first happened, did you get offended? Because I did.
I was like, yeah, you don't know what anything, you
never told a joke. But then, after a few times
where she was right, I'm just like that hurts by
trust you. Absolutely no, that's that's that's that's a good
(56:05):
partner right there. You know, and you and you, you'll
learn over time, whether you respect it at the time
or not, that they're right enough and they're always right.
That that you know you're, you're, you're, you're pretty much
you're hooked up with the right person. Yeah, it's tough
for me at first as far as I'd be like
what do you know about comedy, and she was like,
(56:26):
I'm not trying to give you a lesson in comedy,
but I can tell it. And then she would start
to punch up jokes better than I could write them too.
I'd sit in the bed and be like she was
what if you moved that word here? And I'm like
now I get mad that she was better than me
at it. Does the same thing. She would do it
and like end up with like her name on a
song and then next thing I know she's like from
a business meeting with the account of thing that goes.
Oh Yeah, there's your names, songwriting, business account, or gift account,
(56:48):
she calls it. How much money is in it? What
you know? You walked through the room, you were mopping
the floor while I was writing a song. You can brutal,
but it's fun. Yeah, and it has made me better. Yeah,
it hasked me by far. There's no, no, no denying it.
As crazy and as as Molltle, is it good? And
(57:10):
when my wife tells me I do something good, I
believe her because she doesn't pass those compliments out, which
is good for me too, because lame Simergen. And she
is not. She's not gonna. She's not gonna go that way,
you know. Yet she's you know, she's sweet, she's kind,
she's sensitive, she's, you know, more more slow than I am,
and it's you know. But normally I don't respect that
(57:31):
because we're all we're in this business, we're used to
the fight, you know. And Uh, but I do with her.
What's your favorite accolade that you've ever received? We were
debating on what your answer would be and I just
don't want to ask this so you can be like bragging,
but we were going through some of your stuff and
we did a whole preview before you came out talking
about your record and stuff. If I said the greatest
(57:51):
professional accolade slash achievement, what is it? Oh, it's tough.
I picked one, Mike picked. We all what we thought
you would say. I've never thought about it and I'm
bad at doing this too. I don't you know. I
don't know. I don't mean you know. Would it be
something that's trus vocal performance for a grammy or something?
(58:14):
But no, that is that he's Mike said it'd be
a grammy. Yeah, I said it would be songwriter hall
of fame. That's it. Which one? UH, songwriter? No, no,
you know what country music fame? No, your country Music
Hall of fame. Like, like, I never even thought about it.
(58:35):
Never even ranked those three though. Could you be the
call of fame? Yeah, number one. Go ahead to songwriter.
I'll got the grammy with that first. Okay, yeah, yeah,
I was that. My stepdad came to town. We took
him to go to the country Music Hall of fame
and at the time it was like every piece of
(58:58):
metal they had ever put in and it's just your
name all over every one of them. It just filled
up a whole room of all those things, of C
M as and a C M S, and I mean
do they have to send a dump truck over to
all those things out? No, dump truck. Okay, sorry, eight
Teen Wheeler wheler. Yeah, you're you guys are playing stage coach.
I kind of want to end on this, because what's
cool is you were cool, you went away. It's rare
(59:21):
that you get to be cool again, not nostalgic. Different.
You guys are cool again, and also there's the nostalgia,
but it's not all based on nostalgia. You're cool again,
do you do? You know that and you understand that right,
because you're playing stage coach and they just don't throw
up good acts from the nineties of two thousands and
the stage of stage coach. You know, I don't. I
(59:42):
don't think about that that much. Someone told me the
other day that we we played the first stage coach.
Was that all? Six? You're asking the wrong guy. I
don't know. I know someone in our camp. So that
is that right? Yeah, but uh, the music it sounds
it's the same a lot of it, but the band
(01:00:04):
is is mm hmm, it's it's different. I mean we're
like we're hitting like thirty thousand, you know people, not
festivals crowds. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, like you're not.
People aren't coming to day to just go oh, I
remember these guys. It's also young, young people are coming
to your shows, like so many of my friends that
I did a show and I had a indvitage to
(01:00:26):
come out and you could do because you had a show.
But well, even Caitlin was like, I want to go
watch Ronnie instead of your we had that because you're
playing the same night in Nashville. She's like you can
if I go watch Ronnie, and so but so many
of my friends were sending videos from your show and
there's thirties and forties and they weren't going for any
other reason other than they just love you guys music.
(01:00:46):
And so I don't know what's to be cool again twice.
That is lightning in a bottle the first time, but
the second time. Are you kidding me? Like, do you
guys talk about that? We do, we do, and once
again it's all us with wonder and we don't we
don't get it. We don't get it, but you know
so many things that they do change and I don't know,
(01:01:10):
I'm this is weird just for me to say, but
I feel like I'm singing better. UH, kicks is singing great.
The band is fabulous. His Band is very tight. Crazy.
Is it the real the guys with you, guys share
the band with? Well, we've spent, you know, off and
on seven years in Vegas and stuff and yeah, it's,
it's it's it's part of the part of the her band,
(01:01:32):
part and our our guys, but it's just completely different technologies,
different lightings, different all that. But at the same time
there's a there's a new energy that's that's not coming
from us, what it is, but it's coming from the crowd.
The show is always in the crowd. We asked people
if they have questions. I'm gonna roll through five of
(01:01:52):
these quick you answer them quick these are from our
our listeners here. Um, some of these are simple, like
what is your favorite Brooks and done song? Mm Hmm,
my favorite. Oh, all right, I guess. But neon moon
kind of had a resurgence there. UH, they come and go.
(01:02:12):
You know here you hear this whole thing. They're a lie.
My Kids, you know, I don't know. I'm pickle. You
know right now, which song would you look forward to
on the set list of most? Let's ask him like that.
What would it be? You got all these shows, you
have to when you hit that first quarter on Neon,
it's just they're, they're, they lied up. Here's one something simple.
(01:02:33):
How's he doing? How are you doing? I'm gonna do it. Yeah,
I've been fine. Yeah, I'm doing that's that's that's that's
a bad answer to saying psychology. You don't say fine.
Do you feel good? Yeah, yeah, I feel good. Mental
health good. Yeah, never, never should be. No, you ever
should always be like a little bit of attention in
life is an artist and tortured favorite person or people
(01:02:54):
to tour with. Oh, okay, now, years ago, like we
we hooked up at the Ez top now hobnout, they said.
I got to know billy gibbons and dusty frank all that.
Man became like really good friends, really cool guys really,
because be they're like the first car I got had
like a killer sound system and it was an old,
(01:03:16):
you know, Chevy Nov or something, but uh, and I
had trace hombre's just God, never heard anything like that. Uh,
you know brol haggard. I was gonna go back to haggard.
I get around haggard and but just couldn't talk. Couldn't talk.
Now I wanted to like ask him so many questions
and talk and shoot the breeze, and it's like it's
(01:03:37):
like me and you. You talk, I'm just like we're
talking about chat. You're the coolest. I can't talk. I
said to spit all over myself. When you're you're like,
what's up with you drool? I'm like no, I'm just
here with you. Okay. So a couple of things and
we're gonna wrap up on this hundred proof of neon.
You guys definitely check it out. I saw the sign,
the billboard, driving down the street. It look you up there.
(01:03:58):
What that cost us? Friend? Yeah, what did that come
don't tell me. Also, the lensman project, which you and
I have talked about before, but you're really gifted photography
and in the eye, and you know you. We've been luck.
You have to. I mean you took some nude pictures
of me once and we well, you know, you hear
(01:04:19):
chaps on. That's that's at Lensman, that Little Horse Quurt,
and you can read all about it. Kylyn, do you
have any question? One you want to ask? One question
or no? You know, you've been here. She's never come
to a single one of these. Ronnie, come do you
have any she thought the number one actould be playing
it our way. Well, he meant professionally. That was a
friendship about. That's great to hear. Hey, and it was.
(01:04:46):
It was your people that came up with the moon
that dropped out. All this guy's like that's cheating, but
asked like t steerhead that had a mirrorball on it,
but they were like we can't find one anyway. Yeah,
there's that. Almost I would know. It's terrified. I was
someone's gonna ask me to get come out, dance or something.
Just get out of here. But you know what, my
favorite picture of you, not that I look uh, is
(01:05:09):
on the your instagram thing, is you hanging out the
window of the truck with the Sonic Cup. My Wife
to this day and all the girls, my my uh niece,
runs all of our our touring stuff, but they're all
oklahoma girls and they walk around with a giant Sonic
Cup every day, all day. Yeah, well, it's been a
(01:05:34):
pleasure of my friend. It's really cool to hear about
your dad, honestly, and your wife. Like to be able
to kind of get into that a little because, you know,
on a twenty minute interview, if we were to normally
do that, I wouldn't kind of explore that area. We're
always working at a business. Yeah, yeah, but you like
that's really, really cool. I appreciate you sharing that with me.
You guys follow at Ronnie Dunn on Instagram, at Lensman,
(01:05:56):
obviously at Brooks and Dunn, and they just keep on
killing it and I'm gonna hit up kicks and be
like I need your consent to on the kicks and
if he says yes, I'm going to the show with
your heads and I'm gonna walk the red carpet speaking
for you guys. Know, I'll have him on the phone
by the time I give the front door. We're going on.
Thank you, Buddy. Right
Host
Bobby Bones
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