Jordan Reynolds has quickly made a name for himself in Nashville. His songs have been cut by Thomas Rhett, Camila Cabello, Dan + Shay, Carrie Underwood, Justin Bieber, and more. He 7 #1 singles, including 5 of the last Dan + Shay hits, “Tequila,” “Speechless,”“All to Myself” and “10,000 Hours" and "Glad You Exist." He talks about how he didn’t set out to be a songwriter but discovered it in college after going after a vocal degree. He shares how his relationship with Dan + Shay formed, the success they’ve had together and what they are working on now. Bobby and him share the pros and cons of being eternal pessimists and optimists which changes the way they view accomplishments in their life. Jordan also shares the joke Bobby played on him years ago that made him gain respect for him.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Episode three seven four. Jordan Reynolds. Jordan K.
Reynolds is his Instagram. If you wanna go look at
it and see what he looks like as we do it.
I always find I like to do that during interviews.
I want to see a picture of the face the
person that I'm talking with. But here we are, Episode
three seventy four. He is a Grammy Award winning songwriter.
I mean he's got two Grammys for ten thousand hours
(00:22):
and God only knows by for King and Country. He
is a CMA Triple Play Award winner, and that means
he wrote three number one songs in a twelve month period.
He wrote Tequila, he wrote Speechless, he wrote All to
Myself with and for Dan and Shay. He's got so
many number one He was just nominated for another Grammy.
It's his fifth nomination, and he has won the a
(00:42):
c M four Song of the Year in twenty nineteen
with Tequila. But I really enjoyed this talk. I really
like someone who comes in and challenges me, not like
I'll show you, let's argue, but who like presents ideas
and I'm like, oh that's interesting, Well what about this?
I really enjoyed this talk. I hope you will too.
Jordan k Reynolds is his name, And let's go with
another episode of the Bobby Cast. I'm in that weird stage.
(01:05):
I was over my house because we just left the
radio show came here, by the way, God, you're here.
Are you tired? No? You've kind of got a dialed
at this point? Probably, Mike, are we tired? I don't
really know. I feel this way all the time. I
don't know if I'm tired. How Like, what time did
you get? That is a really good question. I did
not expect for it to stop me in my tracks.
So are you tired? Now? I get sleepy quite often,
(01:28):
But I think it would be like asking a bodybuilder
who's lifting weight? Is that heavy? Because that's what they
do all the time. They have to do it at
a high level, or they don't grow and get stronger. Well,
you been doing this for how long? Now? Just radio
itself in any form? Since I was seventeen mornings, since
(01:51):
I was twenty two. It's almost twenty years, bro, that's crazy.
So I started really I've been lucky enough to be
a grizzled veteran, but I started really young. It's so
that the most impressive part about what you do is
being tired or whatever it is and still having your
(02:12):
brain fire, because you have to be firing on all cylinders.
I wonder how firing my brain would be if I
wasn't tired, though it would probably be insane. Well, and
I appreciate you making it about me, but I don't
want to make it about me. But I guess I
think it's the end of the year too, are you?
Do you have senior ittis a bit as a writer
as a creator. So the last couple of years I've
done like a Thanksgiving through your the end of the year,
(02:34):
I just block it off just to I usually end
up writing, but like it's a good mental thing for me.
I mean, you know, like Awards week, everything starts slowing down.
Everybody's kind of like, all right, we got a couple
more weeks, and I'm just like, I think it's just
better instead of having like scheduled rights, It's like if
somebody is around and we're in town, we're like, let's
just get together. Cool, we got another plane. So I
(02:55):
kind of I do and I don't because I knew
that the finish line was already coming yesterday was the
finish line from me. It's the finish line of obligations.
That's right, that's good. Yeah, yeah, like that. I don't know.
For me, it's never senior ititis as much as it is.
I got to get all this stuff done by then.
M hmmm, because we check out. I would never stop.
(03:15):
I should. I have a wife and she makes me
and it's a good wife. Yes, but it's very It
was really tough for me at first because my whole
life I've just run as hard as I can because
I feel like I have to not to prove to
anything to anybody else, but proved myself, and I feel
like I have to or I'm not going to be
able to maintain success at all. Do you ever worry?
(03:35):
But if you don't keep writing that, you're going to
either lose an edge inside of you or people are
going to lose the fact that they think right now
you're hot and they want to work with you. Of course,
of course, I think, like you get into an industry
like this that's so subjective and you think like I
am the golden child. I think you have to literally
(03:57):
think that. You know. I love that you say that
because you have people will tell me and I'm glad.
I'm thinking, I'm thankful you said that, because I would
have said it anyway. But it comes off so much
worse if I just come out of nowhere and go like,
look at me, I'm awesome and I don't think that,
but I say it. I say it all the time,
where a lot of people will go they'll send me
a message, or people that are disagreeing with how I
(04:18):
do things, or they don't like just the show or
a TV project to work on, and they're like, you
are just You're so self obsessed, You're so self indulgent.
And I'm like, that's my career. It's either what I'm doing,
what I'm thinking, how I feel about it, what it
has to be. I'm tired of me most of the time.
Oh yeah, yeah, I think it really does. But I
(04:40):
have to believe. But I have to believe that what
I'm saying is good enough to put it out and
somebody has wants to consume, either with their time or
their money. If we're being honest, though, in literally any
job ever, you have to have that. If you're the executive,
it's some because you're getting you're stepping into a situation
where like you're looking at your calendar and you're going,
I have so much to do, Okay, the only person
(05:01):
who can do this is this Bobby, you know, like
Bobby who is on and doing it, and like you
have to convinced to that. But like say you're Elon
Musk and you're going into a meeting and you're like, sure,
he's got impostius. He is the richest man in the world,
but like he's been really lucky too. He's going into
meetings going like I any decision I make really really
(05:23):
affects things, and I have to have the confidence to
know like I can do this. And it doesn't mean
like you're egotistical. I don't think it just you just
have to believe in yourself, you know. And there is
a line and I don't always cross or I don't
always walk it correctly where confidence and arrogance meat, and
sometimes I don't. I'm not quite as confident I should be.
(05:44):
Sometimes I'm so confident that comes off the aga. Sometimes
I'm really confident in some areays and just insecures craping others. Yeah,
so I could come off where it's like, oh, stop
doing this act where you just you hate yourself. No, no, no,
there are parts of me that really I've struggled a
long time with you and don't really love and I'm
trying get better, and there are parts of me where
I go, oh, I'm I'm a well oiled freaking machine.
(06:05):
Put myself up against anybody. We we like have this
weird thing in our culture where you can't um, you
can't fully endorse yourself, you know, like it's it's such
a bizarre thing. But we also want people who like
know what they're doing. So I think the ticket to
that feels like if you do ride the line, if
you overstep and you've stepped into arrogance or whatever, it's
(06:26):
like just like you've done You've done a lot of
work on yourself. It's obviously seems like like you can
just apologize. Like that's the cool part of humanity is
like anytime we mess up and just be like, ah,
you know what, remember that thing I said. I didn't
mean that. You know, Yeah, culture doesn't allow completely for that,
But our culture doesn't really allow nuance. What's and you
make a point where it's like, yes, people want this,
(06:48):
but they also don't want this. But they want this,
but at the same time, it doesn't allow nuance at all,
so you're kind of you're just fistfighting the wind. Yeah,
that's right, that you can't really win. Every thing's nuanced religion,
you know, music, everything. Yeah, yet there isn't room for
it in the world that we live in because the
(07:10):
loudest folks are those that don't live nuanced. There's you know,
pretty black and white. There are some situations that I've
been in and i'll talk about it now, and I
really haven't talked about this at all, but I feel
like I can safely talk about your super bright guy. Um,
whenever Morgan got into trouble and I came on the
other next morning and I'll just talk about stuff, and
(07:33):
I got on the air and it's all on YouTube
still to this day. I never pulled it, and I said,
here's what's up. He's got to go away for a
little bit. I don't think we should cancel because I
don't believe in canceling folks. But I do believe in
second chances, and I do so I do this thing
where I say, we're not canceling him, but he can't
just stay right now. So I get crushed from for
(07:53):
the sake of it. We'll call it the woke side.
They're like, no, you cancel him right now, or you
are the problem. The other side we'll call the non
woke side. They're going, you don't tell him to go away.
He stays right here and you there, and I'm going
in my mind and I haven't read any blogs. I
(08:16):
just say what I feel because I don't want to
be shifted by someone else's perspective. I tell my story.
I talk about how it's affected me, how I don't
even understand how it's affected others, because I don't live
the life of somebody that's not me. I explained my
education yet my ignorance, and I try to make sure
(08:36):
everybody knows that. And then I say, here's my opinion.
He and I know Morgan, and I like Morgan, and
i'd like Morgan. I said, but this is bad. It's
a mess up. He's got to go learn and he's
got to come back. But I was sensibility has no allies. No,
it doesn't, and it sucks. Well. I think what you
don't see, though, in what you don't hear as loud,
(08:59):
is all the people who totally agree with you at
all think about like politically even you know, in the
realm that we're all in. It's like my generation doesn't
know what to think because we're like, um, I'm not
far right. I'm not far left. I believe this, and
I believe that. Like, but like you're not allowed to
(09:20):
like if you if you say you are this thing,
then you are also all these other things. There's no nuance.
So I just think a lot more people fall in
the middle on those things and just wholeheartedly agree, Like, yeah,
people shouldn't just be canceled. Like it's like third Jesus
in here. It's like throw the first stone, draw the line,
throw the first stone. He without sin, you know, like
(09:41):
all these people who are like the loudest probably about
canceling him. I don't know. It's like, all right, well,
what have you done perfectly? You know there are consequences
to things. Yeah, there's consequences. Absolutely. I was crushed. It
was a nightmare for me, and I just I didn't
expect to have no But I don't care if people
(10:01):
come out and support me, because I've built a career
off just saying how I feel in dealing where they
go to bad. But I didn't I feel like everyone
that would reach out, meaning uh folks through social media.
Everybody would be against me because those are the people
that that say stuff though, like people that are bold
and loud. And but even that with the arrogance in
the confidence fine line and if I win the middle
(10:25):
and what it's like, well then who are you? What
the it's it's difficult and nuances not really, I won't
say accepted. Nuance is not really encouraged. It's everything, dude,
everything is nuanced. Yeah, it's fascinating when you talk about politics.
You know, I I don't say I'm down the middle,
but I definitely say I do things and enjoy things
(10:45):
on both sides. I'm not down the middle. Yeah I'm not.
But did I grow up with guns in a small
rural town in Arkansas and I see that as a tool.
I also know it can be a weapon. But do
I see it as a tool? And we need to
describe absolutely? Do I all so think with guns? We
shouldn't let idiots get guns and they should have to
go through a process a little harder than absolutely. That's nuanced.
(11:06):
That is, yes, you're taking a little bit of both sides.
And I will scream this and I will say, hey, look,
if we want to drive a car, which I'll drive
a car to work. Got a license. When I had
to drive an eighteen Whelard from my nat GEO show,
I had to go and get a different license. It
was bigger and it could do more damage. And so
when I have a twelve gauge, but then I want
to go to one of these. Okay, I'm not a
big fan of gum, but I'm not gonna say my
(11:27):
my ability what I say goes. So Okay, let's say
that gun still exists, but you should probably have to
get that eight te wheeler of license to be able
to do that. And I think it's like the easiest
thing that common sense common sense, But yes, it is tough.
And where would you put your confidence? Like when people
meet you, will work with you a couple of times,
how do they feel about your general demeanor because you
(11:50):
are a guy who's done a lot, succeeded at a
very high level of confident person. Does it ever come
across as too humble or to to too confident? Even man,
that is great. I don't know how people perceive me
honestly completely, But like I think something that I try
to do is create like a comfortable space where people can,
(12:10):
like you're doing right now, have a healthy conversation. Have
you met with Laura Belts recently nominated for Laura Songwriter
of the Year in The Grammy's Unreal. She's been a
dear friend of mine. We kind of got started at
similar time. You know, she's a little before me. But
something I've really respected about our relationship is and if
every writer relationship could be like this, I just wish it,
(12:31):
and this is what I try to create. But we
have We come from very different places, we have very
different views on things a lot of times, but we
can sit and have a conversation and I mean talk
about the world in general, Like that's what's missing, is
we're so scared of things that we don't understand and
it's generally not as scary as you think, and there's
nuance like it's I mean, I remember growing up and
(12:52):
thinking totally black and white and certain things that now
I'm like, oh my gosh. I mean I just had
no empathy for these things. Are didn't know that side
of the story because there was no exposure. Probably that's
been it for me to write. The more exposure I get.
Two things the more I have an empathy or an
understanding that I don't understand totally dude. I mean it's
it's everything. Yeah, So I don't know. I mean I've
(13:14):
definitely I think I can feel it. I feel like
the arrogance and confidence thing. But generally speaking, I try.
Like I mean, songwriting is such a service industry. Um,
It's it's kind of similar to what you do, Like
you're really good at making other people look good. It's
like that's kind of my job too, um is find
like a tasteful way to plot the best things in
(13:34):
an artist or best thing in other songs. So I
think to do that, you have to create an environment
where people are just like totally feel like they're safe
to say whatever they need to say. They can be
who they want to be. And you know, past a
certain level, you know, like we're trying to write like
hit songs, we're just not trying to finish the song anymore,
you know, So we have to really be nuanced and
(13:55):
how we create an environment that feel safe enough to
do that? You know what I mean? You grew up
in the Midwest? What was home? Like? I was a kid, Um,
so both my parents my dad was a music pastor
at a pretty big church in St. Louis, and like,
we did that all grown up. So I was a
p K pastor's kid. That is. Um. So, both my
(14:17):
parents and musicians, they never did it, like on a
bigger scale. I think they would have, UM, but they try.
They actually were in a like a tour. I say
that right out of college, um or high school. They
went in this like Internationals I think was the name,
and they went around and like did acapella music for
kind of all over the world. But they got to
experience how hard it is though. I mean they knew, yeah,
(14:41):
but that was the beauty of it too. Is like
I never I came here and went to Belmont, and
I never once thought like a creative job was out
of the question, just because I saw my dad. You know,
I saw my parents doing things that were not My
dad is just not the typical dad. You know, my
mom's not the typical moment, it's like there was a
lot of freedom to be like, all right, you wanna
(15:03):
quit taking piano lessons, that's cool, I don't care, you know,
like usually it's one of two ways. That's interesting that
he was like that because you get parents that are
jaded by the experience or the art, even if they're
still in it and go, man, I don't want you
to do this. Yeah, I already sensed that temptation because
we've we've been on the roller coaster of it and
seen like the super highs and the super lows and
(15:24):
you're just like, oh, I don't know. But in the
same breath, I see like the positive side, I'm just
so pro like whatever our kids end up wanting to do,
like just letting him do it, Like there's gonna be
smart kids and they're gonna figure it out. Like I mean,
I applied to one school, which is just not crazy
to think about, but I just was like, that's what
my parents like, we trust us where he wants to go,
(15:45):
and he's gonna, you know, if that's what he wants
to do, and it worked out. But yeah, it's like
trusting that our kids will do them do the same.
But did you do music because a like, intrinsically it's
just an existence and you you think maybe be genetically
because it was in them, or and and is the
answer can be there can even be nuance to this answer?
(16:06):
Or do you think because of your mom or dad
and their love for music. You wanted there to love,
so you did what they love, which actually encouraged you
to love it more. Wow. What a question, man. You're
great at asking questions. That's a good that's a good
talent to have to Um, maybe both, maybe a little
(16:27):
bit of both. I definitely grew up so I grew
up playing classical violin. Like in third grade we had
to play an instrument and it was violin. So did
you choose violin? I don't remember choosing anything. I just
feel like one day I had a violin and then
I looked up senior year and I was like, I've
been doing this for a long time. Um it, I
think like music stuff always came natural. I honestly didn't
(16:48):
think about it. I hate it sounds like Braggy's saying that.
I just I honestly didn't see myself. So I don't
know if you know Cody Fry he um good buddies
with Ben Rector that care he played for him. He's
DUDEO met a belmat just like Freak. He's a prodigy
dude like just genius level musician And I tht oh
those huture musicians. But is he is he playing with
Ben on his next Yeah, I mean I talked to
(17:10):
Been this morning, but I really close crazy Yeah okay, okay, yeah,
go ahead. Yeah. So I would see those dudes like musicians.
I'm like, oh, codies musician. He knows every single thing
he can, you know whatever, And so it wasn't really
to a college. I started going like, oh, I think
I do have something kind of innately in me, Like
I think there's something in me that just like has
to get out. And it's wild too, because songwriting. I mean,
(17:34):
before I moved to Nashville, I did not know songwriting existed,
like I was. I didn't think about I didn't care.
So you didn't come here to be a songwriter. You
came here for I don't know, finger quotes music. Yeah,
I mean I so I got to senior year of
high school and I mean I had literally I've just
done like hardcore, classical violent. That was like my life.
What did you think that was gonna lead to? Was
(17:54):
it gonna stop? Like like I played football until twelfth grade,
and I played a lot, but I knew it was
stopping after twelveth grade the moment I knew. So they
have those like all State orchestras or whatever the things,
and I just I'm like, I love being around people.
I like a deep connection, and I like a good conversation.
So I went to this all state thing and in
(18:15):
senior year, and it's literally just all about what chair
you're sitting in, like, and if you're sitting at the
closer chair, you know, to the people, that means you
are better than the person next to you whatever as
you go up on. So there just wasn't a lot
of like relationship in any of that. And I just
remember thinking I went to this thing and I was like,
I tried to talk to my stand partner and they
(18:36):
were just kind of like I didn't want anything to
do with it, and I was like, I don't think
this is the right place for me. I love music,
and so a lot of crowds. To my oldest brother Josh,
he uh, he's a like a freak audio guy. He's
been with a little big town do in front of
house for them for like over ten years. He engineers
their records and stuff now, but at the time he
was like, why don't you just come to Belmont, like
(18:58):
do do a vocal degree? Because girl he was dating
at the time was a voice pager. It's so weird
to think of all the things that hang in the batch.
I like had sung at church, you know, I was
in a band, but like loose, I didn't I had
know what it was doing. And so my rationale I
was like, all right, well, I can teach myself to
play instruments, I can't really teach myself to sing, right,
(19:20):
So I mean, dude, it's wild thinking, like I just
wanted with a voice macher. So me and Russell Dickerson
were like in the same major, same time, and we're
the only two guys who graduated with that degree at
the time too, because everybody usually drops out. That's what
am I supposed to do with this degree? So? Wait,
so you finished it? You got a voice degree? I
sure do. Did you in that process of getting a
(19:42):
voice grade, do you study songwriting at all or do
you just study is sing better? Does? Yeah? It's mostly
just singing better. So it's a commercial voice degree, which
means anything but classical. But you also the first two
years all you study is classical, which is hilarious. Um. Yeah,
it's basically just to like the mean, honestly, the I
would do these panels of like perspective. One of the
(20:04):
word is students and their parents would come in and
they would ask us. Parents was tray to ask you,
what are you going to do with a voice major?
And I just made something up. I mean, I don't
even remember what I said at this point, I would
be more honestly, I don't really know. You know. Uh.
One of my good friends christ and Rogers, I think
is probably doing like the epitome of what you can
do with the voice major. And she's like unbelievable b GV.
(20:27):
She's like sings with everybody like she is like a
professional singer. But did she need that voice degree or
or the second part of that is did the process
of getting that degree help her achieve the level that
she needed or did it just bring her here and
then she did it while she was here? I mean,
who knows? I think I'm I'm such a I'm so
(20:50):
pro I wouldn't change anything because everything got you exactly
what you needed. But like I you know, yeah you
learned that. And I'm asking because I have a dumb
degree to here isn't dumb, but I'm saying people classifies
and I also now say it's a waste and I
think I was talking to some guys the last time.
I said, I went and spoke at a college and said,
(21:12):
don't you're here for this, we don't do it, get out,
get something else, because yeah, and they told me not
to come back. There was a whole situation which kind
of a blessing in disguise, you know, less less things
to do. Um, So I have radio television, but I
started when I was was seventeen, and then I you know,
(21:35):
then I wrote in college as well, but it was
a I was already doing it, and so I told
people to do just go do it well, and that
that was always the thing of Belmont. There was the
Belmont bubble, you know. It's like we did the showcases
and stuff, which was fun and it did bring some
cool opportunities, but for the most part, it was always
like there were the people who did everything Belmont. There
were the people who did things outside of Belmont, and
(21:55):
that was the experience. It's just I was just telling
somebody that I like, we're just getting to the place
now where our friends from Belmont have like kind of
powerful positions now at companies and it's kind of starting
to pay off. You're like, I remember when I knew
none of these A R people, and now these are
people are my friends, and I can be like, hey, man,
you should check out this song for dust much, you know,
like that makes it so much easier and more fun,
(22:18):
and it just feels like a family. So yeah, I
think I think going through the I needed college. I
needed those for you sing better, Like what's the point
you definitely do. Yeah, I had a my um my
voice teacher's name is Jamie Wingington, and he's, in my opinion,
one of the best. Did you want to be a
singer when you finished? I've listened to the EP I've
heard I've heard your stuff, right, But I wonder what
(22:40):
you learned about yourself in the process. Was it because
obviously you're having to start songwriting at some point, you
didn't know what that was a thing? You're singing your
recording you like, were you just experimenting? Definitely? I was
flying by the seat of my pants. I was having
a blast. Just I was like playing for people. Um.
I worked at a urch for a few years and
(23:01):
I was leading worship there, so it's like I was
using my degree, but I was genuine just like I'm
just gonna stumble into something I think I knew like
I wanted to be. I did a lot of demo work,
like acoustic stuff early on. That's how I f first
met John Osborne. Like before brothers Osborne was doing anything,
you know, playing sessions and stuff, and man, I stumbled
(23:22):
hard into song running. I just had no idea, Like
I I it's impossible for me to like give advice
to younger people because I'm like, I don't know what
you do. You know, like moved to Nashville and just
start writing songs. You know, it's like that's the first place.
Are you an eternal optimists? Oh? Absolutely, I feel it. Yeah,
And you're going you know, I just felt like I
stumbled into something. Oh yeah, So in your mind is
(23:43):
it just gonna work out? It's always gonna work out.
It's interesting I feel that I feel the opposite eternal pessimist.
It's oh, man, I wish there was a word for
a longer fascinating. I love you. Have you met Jordan
Minton another Shawn Marion Towns coming. He's got a couple
of hits. One of my best s buddies. He is
the same way and we have the best conversations because
(24:03):
we view think I'll be so shocked about Wait, what
do you mean it's not. Of course it's gonna work out,
you know, I believe it's gonna work out for others.
Nothing works out for me. That's fascinating. Yeah, nothing works
out for me, and if it does, it's because it
has had to fail seventy three times and I am
just tenacious enough to last to finally make it work out.
(24:25):
That's my that's fascinating. Yeah. Completely, it's like and Nope,
it's not gonna work. Whatever we're doing a gonna work.
So does that mean like you're constantly are you anxious
about the future? Where does your brain completely? Yeah? Absolutely,
absolutely anxious about everything. I think I'm gonna get sick
and die. I think I'm going to the big issue
that I've had. What's your Instagram number eight? You're an eight? Yeah?
(24:49):
Is that the dictator? Yeah, it's the Yes, I'm that
one eight and I'm really close to a one, like
it was like so close to being a one ectrotionist.
I'm a challenger, that's what I am. Yeah, that's the eight.
I would challenge. Um, I'll challenging, but something I know
I'm wrong. I'm like, oh, yeah, you think this right, Well,
I know that's not right, but I'm my challenge you
to beg with you and yeah, but I'm gonna make sure. Um,
(25:13):
but I feel like it isn't going to work itself
out until I have to break it figure out how
to put it back together in its own way that
allows me to work it out. That is just it
blows my mind. And I'm sure it's trauma. Yeah, yeah,
something taught you that somewhere along the way. Or it's
love or lack or you know, all these things that
(25:34):
we have no idea how they've affected us and when
they've affected us. But yeah, my my wife who grew
up different than me. She's from a small town in
Oklahoma and I grew up small town in Arkansas. We
have that in common. They're actually pretty close. Her mom
and dad are still together and they're awesome. I never
had parents, and so it was like learning a new
language and what she struggles with me and I totally
(25:57):
understand her not understanding, which I think for me it's
a valuable lesson is I now can understand I don't
understand things, and why other people can't understand things is
that I'm always freaking out that I'm not gonna be
able to pay bills soon. And she's like, you'd be
like for the rest of your life, You're gonna be fine.
And I'm like, but I don't think you understand what if?
What if? She goes But she has the hardest time
of understanding that all my trauma is rooted in. I
(26:20):
can't go back to how it was. Yeah, I will
never go back. And I think that's a lot of
that is there. Now. I'm a positive person. I am
someone who pursues it and love it and put it
up and show everybody like somebody like yourself. I praised
you around town like this is Jordan. Everybody, I put
you up one of those big speakers like Jordan. The
most part. You should love them because I love it.
(26:42):
I just I wish that was more me. Yeah, man,
but I know it, like I know myself. Do you
feel like you know your You know yourself now at
this point? Do you like yourself? I'm starting to learn
myself definitely better. I'm starting to like believe things for myself.
I feel like most people do that, like in their twenties,
mine didn't really it to like thirties. Um, what has
(27:03):
really like kind of made me lock into like the
some of these things. But speaking to bed director, he
posted some song the other day and like the one
of the lyrics said, like I'm I started, I've stopped
blaming my parents for everything or whatever it was. And
we have two kids now, they're young, it's like three
and one. But I already can kind of see some
of these things you when we're talking about. Yes, I
(27:23):
think trauma does absolutely affect us in certain ways, but
there are certain things that are like innately in us,
like we're talking about, like with the difference with my
little boy my little girl. Already I can be like,
oh my gosh, I mean, like we didn't teach my
little boy will get like he'll run into the wall
face first. I mean, he is bleeding from his nose
and he'll just well like, buddy, are you okay? He's
(27:44):
like I'm fine, I'm fine. I'm like, You're not fine?
Was that you? Um? I don't know. I actually don't know.
I didn't ask my mom. But we've never taught him
like hey, suck it up, you know, like, don't don't
show your emotion. If anything, we are on the other
side of that, so like some of those things you're like,
you know, you just don't you can't teach, Like maybe
it's just in us and nature nurtures this super Like
(28:07):
I'm so intrigued and even curious about myself because I
never knew my dad. Are you left us? Five and so?
But I will run into people from time to time
back home that will go, oh, you're just like him,
that is Wild. You're you're you're, you're you're quick like him.
You said you do multiple things, And I'm like, well,
(28:29):
that's weird. I didn't get it from him because I
was around him, so whatever it is, it's kind of
embedded inside of Wild. And I wondered too, like some
of that stuff like skipped around generations and you're like, oh,
you're just like you're great grandfathers. Yeah you know what
I'm saying, Like some of that stuff to shows up.
I don't know your parents, are they they still they're
still with us, still with us? Yeah? Yeah, they actually
(28:50):
moved um to Hendersonville about ten years. They're here. Yes,
they're here. So my oldest brothers here, they're in like Goodlittzville.
The only other sibling. H No, I've got another one
on his name is Jeremy he is. He was in
the UK for a bunch of years. He's an actor
and did a lot of theater stuff arts. Yeah, it's crazy.
I mean it is kind of wild, um, But I
(29:12):
think so much of that is just the belief thing.
It's like we all knew we could do it because
our parents did. But also the energy that your parents
put into letting, because it takes a lot of work
for for them to express and prove to you guys
that you can go into the work and do whatever
you want. Like that's that's a lot of energy from
them just to be able to convince you guys that
(29:32):
if you do the work, you can do whatever. Oh yeah,
I think too. There's some beauty of growing up we weren't.
We were lower middle class, you know. And I don't
say that to shame my parents. I say it to
congratulate my parents. We had an amazing childhood, you know,
like it was. It was a beautiful childhood, and my
parents did everything they could to make an amazing I
never feel like I missed out on anything. Um, But
(29:55):
there's like a beauty to growing up with nothing essentially,
you know, like we need I have to go on
vacation or anything, because when I got into college, like
there was no expectation of like, well you better start
making six figures, you know, like that was never That's
still my parents don't give a crap, you know, they
don't care what we're making, Like they just wanted to
be doing what we love and like that that I
(30:16):
can already like sense that, like, oh is this gonna
be different from my kids now because they're going to
grow up with a little more means and that like
I we're just trying to be very intentional about like
not letting that stuff pass off because I think there's
some beauty and going like you don't need to do
what dad did to be successful, Like that just doesn't matter.
I already know that, you know success. Have you read
(30:36):
um Psychology of Money? Um? But as money, I usually, uh,
I'm scared of it and don't read it and go
let somebody else do business managers they're great. Yeah, yes,
if now I struggled with that big time, just paying
somebody to look at have my money, talked about money
(30:56):
letting go of control. It was the hardest I couldn't built.
I'm gonna you're you're gonna have access to all the
wait what and I'm gonna pay you to have acts
and and other people do this. I mean I probably
spent multiple multiple therapy sessions just talking about that. That
well it's funny because I well, yeah, talk about a
difference in our brand. I when we because we have
(31:17):
just started working with this finishment in the last few months,
and instantly, I mean I had a like my body
had a reaction of us having been in a positive way.
Like I didn't realize how anxious and stressed I was
trying to do it all my own until we gave it.
I'm like, within the week, my stomach started feeling better
all these things because I was just like, you know what,
(31:38):
it's gonna be great now because I don't have to
deal with love it. It's just wild. Yeah, I'm envious
that that you can do that, and I'm trying to
get better at that. Yeah, it's tough because because it
hasnt worked out. You know, I'll be honest, I can
do that too. I look at myself and go, you
know what you say, But well, here's the danger of
being in an internal optimist because it's it is like,
it's cool. I like this, let's do dangers about danger,
(32:00):
let's do let's do pros and con this is good.
Do pros first. What's what's the pro of being an
eternal optimist? Um, anything is possible, Like any room, Like
when I go in to write a song, I say
this out loud, I'll say, there is no reason why
we cannot write a song of the year today. There's
no reason. I mean, like look at I mean, I
remember going like when we wrote Tequila, like we weren't
(32:22):
even in that headspace yet, and like that can happen.
So it's like, gosh, now that we're trying to do it,
like we can definitely do it, you know what I mean. Like,
So that's the positive. Anything is possible, any write, any
combination of people, anything, we can make it work. All right,
let me positive. Here's positive being eternal pessimist. You're never
disappointed because you are, well, it's gonna happen anyway, You're
(32:45):
I'm I'm almost never disappointed because I already don't expect
it to work out. So when it doesn't, yeah, uh
and you all yeah and you and you rarely get
hurt because you are do you expect the worst to
happen because it has before it will happen again. So
you're almost never disappointed and you never heard. So you're
(33:07):
you're you, You're protected by the way. I'm not saying
this is the way to go. I'm just saying this
is this is the positive about that. I totally get that. Yeah, okay,
go with the opposite side of yours. Okay. So, like,
speaking of business management, um, I'm telling my friend who's
an eight, one of my best buddies. I'm telling him like,
because I'm so excited about this, and I'm like, dude,
(33:27):
we're gonna do business minute. They're gonna take everything like
I don't have to think about it again. And his
first thought, I'm thinking he's gonna be like, dude, that's awesome.
He's like, yes, So who audits them? And I was like,
what do you mean why I don't audit them. He's like, dude,
they have complete control over your finances. And I was like,
I didn't look at it that way. So the danger
(33:49):
can be and you know, I'm like caution, I would
say I'm more depending on the situation, I'm more cautiously optimistic,
Like when it comes to an investment, like the pro
of that, like we got into thirty A because I
was just like, let's do it, you know, like we're
gonna do it, and took an aggressive move and it
(34:09):
really paid off to be down there. But then after
that I had to sit and go, this is not
going to happen again, most likely, So let's now be
cautiously optimistic and not just throw everything at the wall
and it's all gonna stick, you know, Like so that
those are the you know what I'm saying, Like you
can get yourself in trouble thinking everything's gonna work out
because realistically, not everything's gonna work out. You buy a
(34:30):
lot of crypto, and I bought something it might be
working out, but it might work my Okay, here's the
bad part about being an eternal pessimist is that it's
hard to find real joy. M hmm, hard to celebrate.
(34:51):
Oh no, no, no, I never said, I mean, yeah,
that's tough. It is. I will tell you that it's
hard to celebrate for an optimist too, because is I
think part of it is like you think your best
days are yet to come, and you're like, oh, this
is this is cool, but this is not. This is
not gonna be the biggest thing we've ever done. And
then you look back on things and you go like
(35:12):
that was pretty big. Maybe I should have just been
excited when that was happening, Like that's that's where my
brain goes. And my wife talked about a good wife,
like she's so good about small things now, you know,
like going, hey, we just the other night. Doesn't Lynch
face time me on a Friday night and he was
just I pick up the thing and he's playing this
new song that me and Devin Dawson and Lisa Vannerhem
(35:35):
wrote and it jacked me up. I don't like, I
feel like I wouldn't. Normally I'd be like, okay, cool, Yeah,
he's a kind of song. You know that's great, But
is it gonna be a single? I don't know how,
you know, or you know whatever. So in those moments,
like that moment, I sat back down on the couch
and I was like, I'm so fired up right now.
Like this song that I love, doesn't Lynch his face
time me. He's in love with it. Zach crowd loves it.
(35:57):
This is sick, you know, Like and my office like
wait to go. Oh that's awesome. You know, this is cool.
You're celebrating this Moe. I was like, I'm gonna be
excited about this, like you know, so that's that's where
it can get celebrating. I think either way is tricky.
It for different reasons. And I think if it's something
cool one, well there ain't never gonna happen again. You're like, well,
(36:19):
surely there's another there's not. There's some bigger coming. And
I'm like, well, this is it, this is this probably
is truly this is the top of the mountain. But
my again, my wife, who has been such a great
I won't even say counterbalance. I think she's just been
She's added complete elements of complete balance or elements because
I'm definitely not there. She will force me to, even
(36:40):
if I don't fully accept it here and recognize why
some little moments should be acknowledged. And sometimes you wouldn't
make me say the word celebrate, but she'll be like, okay, cool,
well we're we're not gonna be so pump. We're gonna
at least acknowledge right now this, even if it means
I mean small things. It's like my wife doesn't drink.
(37:01):
I don't really drink that much, you know, Like so
like alcohol is always the first celebration. I feel like
for most people, it's like, hey, we're going to like
make a nice meal tonight, or we're gonna go out
to dinner to night, and it's like it's not that
big of a deal, but we're gonna do something to
remember how this felt, you know what I mean, Like,
that's just I think it's necessary. I don't want to
get the end of all of this and be like, man,
(37:23):
I just I just didn't celebrate. I didn't I wasn't excited,
and like all these people looking at our lives and
going like what you weren't excited about that stuff? Like
how could you not enjoy that? You know, I get
that from her? How why are you not enjoying this? Yeah,
like we'll go on a trip and not in a
shameful way, no, not at all. It's like, come on,
this is awesome. You know. My wife is very much like, hey, bro,
(37:45):
like why do you work so hard all the time
and kill yourself and have these huge goals? If you
have every once a while, I can't actually celebrate, like
can't have some of the spoils that you've worked for.
And so we'll be well, you know, we'll go on
to trip things like though I wouldn't ever be able
to do in my life, and she'll go, look look
what you look what we got to do because this
is what you like. So so going back to the
(38:09):
psychology of money thing, Um, this guy said this, and
I've I feel like I have to repeat it to
myself weakly, but he said he interviewed all these billionaires
in the book is amazing in general. But he um,
he's like, what is success? What is wealth? What is success?
You ask those people and they said, the ability to
wake up and do what you want to do, with
(38:30):
who you want to do, for as long as you
want to do, And that is true success. You could
do that making thirty grand a year, you know what
I mean. Like, um, but that's like the beauty. Going
back to like this enjoying the spoils of it. There's
almost like a thing in our culture of like, well,
you're doing it, you're right, so right it all the
way out, you know, all the way like take full
advantage of it. And in the meantime you're like not
(38:50):
getting to spending time with your wife or your kids
or whatever. You know, Like it's like you gotta enjoy it,
you know, like yeah, that that is the point of
all of it, you know, like you in the balance
in it. You got a couple of Grammys. Uh yeah,
we got one. I mean I thought you got one
for maybe two so Dan and Shay one for the
(39:14):
accounts tequila in ten thours. You didn't. You don't win
Speechless maybe okay? So are you loosely associated? You're loosely grams?
I think like three or four okay, but you have
one physical one that we just got nominated yesterday for
another Christian Grammy Country, right, yeah, for Kan Country. That's awesome.
So random. Yeah, um, why Ben Vaughan, you know, Wren
(39:38):
travel He uh, he came to me and Josh Kerr.
It was like a couple of years ago. Hey, um,
He's like, you guys are you guys are Christians? Right?
And you write music? You should you should get together
with for King Country. And I was like, I know
that math makes sense in your head, but I don't
write Christian songs like so this could be a train wreck.
(40:00):
And literally the first day we got together, we wrote
the song God only knows that ended up winning the Grammy.
It was like it just started this insane like super cool,
you know, i'm CCM is so tricky for me. Contemporary
Christian music. Yeah, yeah, now you're in. Now you're in
the biz. It can come across cheesy if you're not careful.
And so I think, like, what's cool about those guys.
(40:22):
They just do such a good job of making like
real good music, Like it's really good. We have great
conversations about life with those guys. I just love making
music with those dudes. They're just wholesome dudes. You do
you cut the track, it's out whatever. Was it a
success in that world as just a song, Yeah, it was,
(40:43):
like I think it was like a fourteen week number one.
That's that's success. Yeah, But but that world is a
little different than country. It's like what country used to
be kind of fourteen weeks or at anything. Yeah, I mean,
if I'm playing Madden and I'm I win fourteen super
Bowl against the computer on rookie mode, I'm still I
was pretty freaking good. That's pretty good, man. I don't
I can't actually pretend to completely understand that side of
(41:03):
the industry, but like, um, yeah, it was a it
was a pretty big success in that world, and it's
just cool. I mean, man, I don't I feel like
in songwriting I have to do a lot of different
things to keep me interested, were inspired, you know, And
so those have been just like super fun ways to
feel inspired. And you know, like we come into it
(41:25):
not being Christian writers and go like what if we
said this, and like, gosh, we would never say that
in this, you know what I mean. Like that's kind
of how I fell getting into country. It was like
I don't know the country lingo that well growing up
in St. Louis. I've got some country grandparents, you know,
But like I had to like kind of fake my
way through it until I knew what was going on.
(41:45):
But I also had something to say that all the
country people didn't have to say, you know what I mean.
So there's it's like harnessing that piece of you that's
a little different, that's okay. You know, was your first
I know your first number one was tequila? Hopefully I'm
right on this. Was that your first single was my
first single? Are you kidding me? It was the first
single in your first number one? Man, we went tequila.
Speechless on myself ten thousand hours. Glad, I think I
(42:09):
should probably go to Bow before that. And then like
Glad you exist we had this ride and I knew
it wasn't real. It's like, all right, yes we got
into the right time. Yeah, you know, like it it's
said horribly unrealistic expectations, even though I knew it shouldn't,
you know what I mean, Like, I just had incredibly
unrealistic expectations. It's crazy. That was your first single. I'm
(42:31):
not even talking about number one because it was such
a massive song. And I will also say it was
a complete bias. We're very close to Abby and Dan. Yeah,
and Dan said he's gonna stop by by the way. Great,
I mean, he's around the car. He probably knows the code.
I mean, we're my wife and Abby are like best
of friends, so we're so that being said, I still
(42:52):
that Tequila was such a Donna Donna Donna and then
the freak the Jaws just attacked that shark was so
big for so long. It was a real staple of
that year in country music. And that's your first single.
It was crazy. I remember, Um, could you even appreciate it? Yeah, no, no,
definitely not. I mean I remember, like vividly, this was
(43:17):
the first time this is kind of happening. So before
Tequila came out speaking of three day we were down there.
We're staying at christ and Hillary's house, Hillary Scott's house,
and I had come with my in laws. So I'm
playing for my sister in law. She's always been a
great like uh test for me. I'll play new songs
for him, Like what do you She's just a country listener,
you know. So I played her four or five songs
we've been you know whatever, and I'm just playing acoustic
(43:38):
and I got done with tequila and she was like,
you did not write that song? And I was like,
I mean, yeah, I did, but it wasn't even like
my most I wasn't even most excited about that song.
It's like just how we you know. And that was
like October so and I was like, yeah, I think
it's actually the next Dan and Jay single, you know, like,
which is crazy, you know, um, but the first one
(43:59):
off that Problem Jake because it was the first project.
I remember the new the new aesthetic with that song.
Oh yeah, all the symbols and yeah that I mean.
Props to Dan and h and Rohan Colie over at
Warner like Rohan had just signed on him and Dan
have been good buddies for a long time and Um
Rohan's first project was basically convincing everyone at Warner that
(44:21):
Tequila needed to be the first single. They were not
in a stage in their career technically on paper where
you could just throw a ballot out as the first single.
I don't even know if really anybody's in that stage ever,
you know, like it's a tough spot to be in.
And Rohan is like, I will put my life on this,
which is a I mean, he did so much behind
the scenes to make that song happen. You just never
know like it. But what it did was it set
(44:44):
up the rest of the record to be elevated. You know,
like if it had gone you know, all to myself
first or whatever else, even like it would have changed
the trajectory of that whole project. So the year and
or so or nineteen whatever, the year we had lost
the c M A and the Grammy and then won
(45:06):
the A c M it was a wild Yeah. I
remember when it lost the c M A because I
was I was with Dan. It was a dark night.
It was a dark night, and Dan and I are
a lot alike, and we were both pretty o C
D about different things. Dance, O C D like crazy.
I'm O c D like crazy. He's also doing it
(45:26):
crazy and I respect it and love it and but
get it. And I remember just going O man. So
I just I reached out that night and after we
had talked, and I was like, bro, I noticed what
I'll be feeling right now. Maybe you're not, maybe you're not,
But I felt like that. And I said this in
an Instagram even the other day, how Dana had such
(45:49):
as with you guys had such a massive collection and
it wasn't rewarded when it should have been. So then
everyone knew it and started to get rewarded afterward later
because of because they were that should have been rewarded. Yeah,
isn't that always happens in award shows too? It seems
like like the Grammys, like somebody will win the next year.
I firmly believe that's why I haven't won the No
(46:10):
About Peace Prize yet. Any one more year and the
next year, Yes, that's it has to be right, you know, Yeah,
I think it could happen. I did feel like you
guys hardcore were robbed out of this Song of the
Year there, But again, how mad can you be whenever
you're on such a run man. I just you know,
I have said this to other songwriters. It's like winning awards.
(46:30):
Nobody remembers who won the last year. BEFO. We're talking honestly,
nobody gives a crap. Absolutely, but winning is sick having
an award in your studio. If it helps people like
legitimize you or whatever or just trust you more, then
that's great. But don't put all your eggs into I've
got to win or even I gotta win Songwriter of
the Year. It's like we're in the age of Ashley Gorley.
(46:52):
You're not winning song at the root. But someone would say,
can I counterpoint you? Yes, because I don't believe and
I believe what you're saying about the point anyway, Okay,
that's cold. Jordan's've written all these number one songs, so
shut up and telling me what I should be happy
with having. Whenever you came out of the womb with
the number one. Yeah, oh, I mean yeah, By the way,
I don't I don't even believe what I said right there,
(47:12):
but I was just no, it's good to have the countram.
I mean yeah, but it's I think sometimes seek validation
from what I would consider respected peers. Yeah, and I
think because you're right, nobody remembers the awards. They honestly don't.
It's always easier when, of course, yeah, a winner saying
a ward shows don't matter. It's like, well, easy for
(47:33):
you to say, right, yeah. And it's like me trying
to host the c M A S. I'm like, eventually
they got to give it to me, and so many people,
big folks, Hey, it doesn't matter, nobody cares. But I'm like, no, no,
that's been that's been what I've been working toward forever.
But it's a personal thing, right, And it does always
seem to go that you don't know what you got,
(47:53):
know that, like you you know, once you get the validation,
say you're a country artist, you get the validation of
country radio. Bobby Bones is on your team and he's
playing your music. Rarely actually does that line up with
a lot of the award show nots now maybe a
c M s are a little more like commercial friendly
(48:14):
kind of vibes, especially Grammys. Dan and Shay The fact
that they get nominated for Grammys and have radio success
is like, that's that's a unicorn, you know, like usually
one comes without the other. It's just almost you have
to have such unparalleled success to even be in the
Grammy slash Commerce. Yeah, and and they've done it. It's
super crazy. Yeah, Yeah, it's super cool. Are you because
(48:36):
when I think of you, I obviously know all the
songs that you've written for Dan and Shade because of
my personal relationship with that group. Are you in a
lot of people's minds that got the Dan and Shade team? Guy?
It's a great question, man. I like me and my
publisher talked about that stuff. We kind of like early
(48:57):
on because I also do tracks, and I was like,
I don't want to be another track boy, you know,
I want to be I want people to know that
I'm a songwriter all these things. I think we were
just very intentional early on about going we're gonna get
in a lot of different camps. We're gonna really like
try to spread this out. And I think I kind
of pride myself in being able to be a chameleon
(49:20):
and like whatever room we're in, you know. So I
think I'm sure there are like people who are surprised
when they come in there, Like I thought you were
just like the pop country dude, and we write like
a super country song or something like. I think that
has definitely been a fear of like, I don't want
to just be the pop country doude, especially a time
where pop country is not cool right now. You know
it seemingly it's like I think in the writer's room,
(49:41):
you know, just having those relationships to their writers. I
don't think that's necessarily I could be wrong, though, that
could be the eternal optimist of me. You know, it's
funny about pop country, and you're right, but it's still
circles all the way back. We're talking about a minute
ago or forty five minutes ago. Is that okay? Pop country?
Let's say it's not cool because it is not cool. However,
(50:02):
just like I said, there's no sensible it's still the
most consumed. It's still but nobody's coming up going. I'm
a huge fan. It's like the weekend. Do you ever
meet somebody it's like on the biggest weekend fan. No,
but you know, strange, like crazy the freaking weekend. I
looked up Khaleg the other day, like I don't feel
(50:23):
like I've heard I mean, you have heard his songs recently,
but like he has like fifty million monthly listeners on Spotify.
There are a lot of people who love it, but
there's just no need for them to scream because they
don't feel like anybody is doing them a disservice. Yeah, definitely,
and like they already pop country was already on top.
It's like you don't have to root, you know, like
we don't have to know that you're a fan of Alabama,
(50:44):
you know what I mean. Not this year obviously, but
like if you've already done it, you're like, yeah, you've
already done it. It's like we talked about with kids.
When you have your first kid, people are like, oh
my gosh, we're so excited you've announced you having your
second kid. They're like, okay, cool, you already had a kid,
you know, like that's just gonna happen. Did you get
to meet Dolly? No? I didn't. Josh Kerr did he?
(51:06):
Like I think he got a tracker on the thing.
But no, it would have been sweet, it would have
been well, so it could happen. It's amazing to me
that she wanted Grammy and didn't even show. I mean,
that's that's a power move. You know, you're getting no
more powerful than Dolly. It's it's phenomenal. You're going to go, Yeah,
we'll go. Have you You've been every time you've been nominated, Yeah,
it is. It a pretty cool trip though, dude, it's
(51:28):
one of the coolest trips. The last one was weird
because it was and Kobe died that day. That day,
it was literally we were in the elevator like going
down to the main spot and it was like, Kobe
Bryant has died in a helicopter crash outside of l A.
We're like, what, so we won a Grammy and the
(51:48):
pretail by this thing. Walk outside there's just thousands of
people out there, just surreal, like, but man, LA is
such a magical place. I love going out there, and yeah,
it's just such a fun thing. How do you not
write the same song. You've gotta find ways to be
inspired by new things. That's like what I was saying
earlier of like I can't just write super country songs,
(52:10):
or I can't just write pop country, or I can't
just write pop or Christian. It's like you have to
have a well balanced diet and that like inspiration is
just like everything, you know, Like when you're trying to
get a hit, if you're not inspired by the idea
you're writing in the room, or if it doesn't make
you just go like, oh my gosh, like, let's just
chase it till we do find that. So I mean
(52:33):
that that's the easiest way, like finding new sounds, writing
on different guitars, I mean, but also still borrowing, you know,
like you don't throw the baby out with the bath war,
like borrow the things that did work and transplant those
into the new songs. You know, Like do you ever
find yourself inadvertently pardon the word, stealing a song from yourself? Oh,
(52:53):
definitely yeah, And you have to go, oh, well, yeah
that's me, but I can't oops. I mean yeah, typically
the first person in the room to be like, even
if I don't know what it is, I'm like, doesn't
this sound like something? And shouldn't we be careful? You know? Um?
But yeah, that's just natural. I mean, we only have
so many things in our brain that our brain naturally
goes to. You are you constantly thinking of song concepts,
(53:17):
titles and or melodies? Always trying to think of concepts?
I mean, to me, that is the basis of all music,
but specifically country music, Like that's the inspiration point. You know,
what is the concept that you knew immediately, kept savored,
(53:37):
treasured and it turned out to be something. Dude, this
is gonna sound like I'm making this up or like
rose colored glasses? What are I had the idea for
tequila had when I taste tequila, and there's only been
a couple of those moments that I was like, this
is definitely a song. I had that and then um,
in the same time period, I had an idea called
(53:59):
what Keeps You Night that was on the Dana Sha record.
It was like the only outside song on that, Like
you just get a feeling because it feels like I
can already see the song, like I can see the
whole thing from looking at the title. Um, it wasn't
my title, but ten thousand hours was like that for me.
Dan said that title. We did like a writing trip
before the Grammys in l A, I guess in twenty
(54:20):
nineteen whatever year was, and he had thrown out that
title in the room and nobody bit on it, and
I was like, dude, I am obsessed with that title.
I forgot about it. Like three months later, We're right
with Jesse Joe Dillon, and I was like I've got
this title ten thousand hours, and I was like, do
we have to write that? Like that is? That is
a smash? I don't even know however, way we do that,
like we will make sure it's right, you know. Like,
(54:43):
but there's only a few of those kind of songs.
And I feel like, why do you think certain songs
resonate within yours with within oneself more than others, because
you're thinking of all of them, Like, what do you
think it is? I mean, it could be so many.
(55:04):
I think it's nuanced. We haven't said that in a while.
I think it's time bring back. What's so tricky is
like something that really inspires you may not inspire me
or vice versa um or you I might just not
catch the vision for it or whatever. But like, I mean,
it's probably because it's reminding us of something else we
love and we don't quite know it. I mean, most likely,
(55:25):
it's like when you see someone on the street and
you're like, wow, that person is really attractive. It's like, oh,
it's because it looks like my cousin. Well, that's a
weird life you live. I was trying to pull on
the and then you went there, good, good, good. You
get in a room with a new songwriter somebody like
this person is really great. You should spend some time
with them, and they say, Jordan's and what do I
(55:46):
need to know about this town? And this like help
me out because and it's somebody that you see is
raw but really good. What do you tell that person
because I'm sure this has happened to you many times? Um,
what's crazy is you kind of already can tell. And
I always felt this way, like coming up like people back, oh, dude,
you're gonna have hits, no problem, And I'm back, well
(56:07):
that why don't you tell the artist I'm writing with
that Like I can't get a you know, hit to
say in my life. But like there's a certain like
personality type and talent level that like even if they're
not quite there, you can be like that person is
going to do it. So it's not it's like less
even like giving specific advice. I think about. There's this girl,
Mackenzie Carpenter. She's a new um artist in town. Everybody's
(56:30):
been talking about her. She's amazing, is it? And I
wrote her the first time and I was just like, yep,
she's got it, like she has she has the personality
to do it. She's got the look, she's got like
all the things amazing writer. And I was like, we
don't really have to tell you anything, just like keep
your head down and keep writing songs. Don't be um,
don't be upset if you're not getting in the rooms
that you want to get in. Um. Things that I
(56:52):
have to still tell myself is like, sometimes you're still
just not ready. That doesn't mean you're not talented enough,
but it might mean you don't have the skill set
that you need. It's like the amount of times I've
written a song and the next week I'm writing with
a new artist and I'm like, or with an artist
that I've been trying to get in with. It's like
I just learned this little trick that now is going
to be in this song, and I'm like, oh, what
(57:12):
if I hadn't written this song today to get me
prepared for that. Like that's a close example, but like
just be okay, like waiting it out a little bit,
if that's what it means, Like you want people to
be excited to get in the room with you, But
that's advice you said. You don't have any advice to
tell them and then you said I don't have anything.
But here's what I would say. You did say it.
That's great advice. I lied, Yeah, I definitely lied. What's better?
(57:33):
It's okay to lie here what's better songs? So it
is okay to lie? Absolutely? Okay, good, Yeah, most of
this has been alive. By the way, I'm not even here.
This is a recording of me Mike's pushing a button
ball wall a wall. It is compressive. Yeah, it's difficult
for me to talk to a wall though. That is
that is It's difficult, but it's impressively technology. Um, what
was the question better songs? Yeah? So um started with
(57:54):
a buddy of mine wh's actually my lawyer, Sam's Chase Neely,
and I just like, I love talking about songwriting. I
could just talk about songwriting forever. And um, my buddy
Chase has actually done this kind of program with a
few other people, like authors and stuff and kind of
like the master class kind of feel, but this is
(58:15):
geared towards new writers. Um, just like getting your footing
and like just going deep into like actual things things
that like you wouldn't have to really tell a new
writer who's already signed. It's like going past the point
of what you think you need to explain and explaining
that stuff like here's rhyme schemes. Here are the simple
rhyme schemes. You know, kind of starting in that that world. Um,
(58:39):
but I'm just like passionate about songwriting. I love songwriting
that much. They're like, we're just gonna throw a bunch
of you and you can just talk and talk about songwriting.
And I was like that sounds great. So yeah, we've
been doing it for it's about a year now. We
just kind of started this subscription part of it. But
I got to interview a bunch of my good friends
and stuff. Just recently into like a well week long
(59:00):
virtual semit thing. I have to do like podcast kind
of thing and talk to all these people about song Right.
It's just so fun for me. I love it. And
that's a Better Songs dot com bet com. What's that
gonna run me? Uh? For you make a deal? You
can also follow on Instagram at Better Underscore Songs Underscore.
This is a really softball question, but a real answer.
(59:25):
What is your favorite song that you've written that you're
most proud of and it it could be forced for
a success, It could be for something that took you
a year to actually finish, or it could be a
message I don't I don't really care, and I'm actually
vamping to give you time to think right now. Yeah,
it's so, it's it's such a broad question. But what's
your favorite song that you've written. It's difficult because favorite,
(59:48):
you know, like, I'm just attaching all these feelings to
these things and the song talk about a softball answer.
The song that really I do feel that way about
is Tequila. Like it's to me like the best representation
of what I love to do, you know like, and
just like simple and make somebody feel something, you know like,
(01:00:11):
and the fact that it was my first thing I
feel like people that was always like a fear of
mine in a weird way. I didn't think about it
a lot, but like I had buddies who had hits
early on, and they just like weren't proud of them
like we do like writer's rounds, and like, I'm not
gonna play that song. I'm like, dude, it's a hit.
People love this and they're like, I just don't. I
don't think it represents me that well. And I was like, oh,
(01:00:32):
I hope I don't have one of those, you know,
So it's so fun like having I feel that way
about I mean, all the hits, but like specifically Tequila.
It's like it's just so sick being like, I'm so
proud of how this song turned out. Dan crushed the production,
Like the piano thing is my piano that I created
in logic, like when I first started doing tracks, and
(01:00:53):
now know that like that was the reason I created
that piano was to be in Tequila, you know, like
just wild. You know that kind says I'm super proud
of that song. I think I always will be too,
I mean realistically, And this is not the eternal optimist
to me because even as I'm saying, I don't believe it,
but it's like when I die, it'll probably be like
Jordan Reynolds, songwriter of Tequila, you know, like that realistically
(01:01:15):
will probably be it. I don't believe that because I
can't exist that way. But um yeah, which song was
the most tedious to finish of your hits? That we
would know? That is a great question. Honestly, probably speechless
because we were so into the records. He was already done,
the album was done, like he was about ready to
(01:01:36):
turn it in. Dan texting me like nine pm on
Thursday night was like, hey, I got this last idea.
I just remember being very like we combed through that
stuff so hard, like just to make sure because we're like,
I mean, this is our last shot. If if this
is not going to beat anything on the record, this
song disappears, so like, let's make sure this is it.
I mean, it's funny because I try to not think
(01:01:58):
of it as work. You know, it's hard to remember.
And but we've been doing a lot more rights recently
where we break it up into two days and we
like let it be tedious, you know, like in a
good way, so you don't force all right, guys, it's
three o'clock. We we gotta finish it. Yeah, you just
purposefully you go, we're not going to finish it today. Yeah,
Oh that's there. Yeah. I like that. There's there's been
(01:02:19):
a little too much empasis on success being finishing a
song in a day. The efficient part of me doesn't
like it, but I like it the creative side of
me because I'm running dual dual sides here, like I'm
running business, but I'm also like I have be super creative.
The creative side of Me's like, oh, I'm not supposed
to finish to days. I just I can relax and
get to that place where I'm my most creative, Like
that's great. Oh yeah, and I'm a three on the Instagram,
(01:02:41):
which is the achiever, which means I like to finish
things like and so it's a good exercise for me
to go. It's okay to take a break and step
away and go let's hear with fresh ears, Like does
that really hit? Like we think it's hitting, you know,
like how can this be elevated? How can that second
verse even better than when we think it is? Just
(01:03:02):
from listening again, you know, getting away from it. What
do you want to say now about Dan and Shade
and music? You've've written some stuff and yeah, man, I'm
I'm really excited for this new phase for them. I think, like,
you know, as things have got more country, Like if
there is anyone who just is a genius when it
comes to figuring out music industry stuff is Dance Mars,
(01:03:24):
Like he's he's known it and no he's not perfect,
nobody's perfect, but like he has such a like gauge
on what's happening, Like I think the next album is
gonna be so sick. He's been playing me stuff and Okay,
I'm glad you said it because I wasn't saything about record.
But yeah, cool, yeah, you're you're in the mix. Then good. Yeah,
I wasn't gonna say that, or I was gonna then say,
(01:03:46):
I'm like, I don't know. I didn't talked to Dan
in weeks. We were at a charity event together and
he was like, hey, we'll record, you know, just so yeah, great,
good things are happening. I think it's gonna be really good.
And you know, I mean, it's so funny you thinking
about Danna say, like we think of them as pop country.
You can listen to the Dan Chase self to out
elements like it's not really that poppy. It's still full
band and you know, like it's just not that big
(01:04:07):
of a departure. But the songs are great and I
think they're fired up. Say sounds better than he's ever
sounded in his life, which is even difficult to believe
that he could sound better than he does. But are
you fired up? Are you excited? Oh? Yeah, yeah, I'm sticked.
I don't want you to give an answer here, don't
be specific, but you ever get a song back to
your written and you're like, oh, that's what they did
with it, not even them, but anybody. Oh yeah, I
(01:04:28):
oh yeah, man, I feel it's it's few and far between, thankfully. Um.
That's part of the reason I got into doing tracks
and stuff was to be able to have a little
bit of influence in that world. But like I would say,
by and large, like I trust the Nashville producers, and
if like we also have the report with now that
like I think I could, they might ask like hey,
(01:04:49):
like where they're gonna ask for tracks, they're gonna do
something that we're I'll still have some influence. I'm not
typically worried. There have been a few surprises. Are you
working on anything solo? Uh? I mean I'm always kind
of like dabbling for fun. It's not like the thing
I prioritize. Really, I've been trying to write solo and
think like what would I just do? You know, But
(01:05:12):
in the back of my mind, I'm always like, who
could this be for? You know, it's just gotten too
easy righting other people. So now you're you're like leveling up,
like go on level four, Donkey Kong. That's where it's
jumping right by myself with one year Yeah yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah. Well listen, man, i I'm just I'm a
big fan. I guess I'm a big fan of you
personally because I just have so many people that are
in both of our I don't have a very big circle.
(01:05:34):
I stay pretty private. But when you have people that
you really value and they also value somebody, you then
value them through association and just appreciate and just know that.
That's like a good dude. And so you've always kind
of been that, even though we've not spent any time together.
So I was excited that you were coming over today.
And can I tell you the first time I gained
(01:05:54):
some serious respect for Bobby Bens By the way, I
would love to hear this story. I'm always weird about
it because I want to hear it, but I don't
want to, but I don't. Can actually the awkward? But no,
this is good. Have we ever met? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
so this is this is that story. Okay, this is
a great story. Okay, read and it can be tell
the whole truth. Even make me look good. This makes
you look great, honestly, what makes you look really good?
(01:06:16):
So week of I mean, this is this beenen when
that self titled album came out and Danna say this
is gonna I don't know if I'm allowed to say
this is my might break the rules here, see behind
the curtain here. But so Dana were doing a week
of album released with Bobby Bones albums coming out on
whatever Friday. Every day they're coming in and playing so
(01:06:38):
Dan and she asked me, will you just come play
keys with us? Were really like cus Well, We're like, hey,
they're actually gonna film along one day. That's the part
that no one's supposed to. It's okay, infod listen to this.
I let him know we recorded stuff in debate. Appreciate that. Yeah,
you can cut it off. So, um, we show up
with four outfits. You know, it's four days. So we
(01:06:58):
do the first one. I'm wearing like all black, and
we finished and we're like, all right, let's get ready
for the next one. And I was like, all right,
what should I wear? And you kind of chimed in.
You're like, man, are you just gonna be You're sitting
in the same spot and I was like yeah. He's
like You're like, dude, don't worry about it. Just you
can keep the same thing on. I was like, are
you sure, Like, like, dude, yeah, it doesn't matter. It's
all good, you know, just like totally chill. And I
(01:07:19):
was like, all right, cool, So Danna sha change. We
get set up. We rolled the second one. We're going
it's the next day. You know. It's like, hey, everybody,
you know, Bobby Bones here whatever. We got Danna Shay
and again, and they're like, yeah, we're gonna play this
song speech less. We actually wrote with our buddy here
and you go hold on his saying, this guy back here.
He was here yesterday, right, And they're like, yeah, yeah,
he's here. He's like he's wearing the same outfit that
(01:07:42):
he wore yesterday. And I was like, I didn't even
have a mic. I couldn't respond. And I was like,
you dog, I was like instant respect. I was like, man,
that that is that's funny. That's the next level comedy.
That's funny. I mean, I'm laughing at that. I don't
remember out that was funny. Bro. It was like, all right,
I think I could hang with this from on enjoyment.
(01:08:05):
That's classic. It was awesome. I've told that a lot
of people's funny. I don't think I knew what to expect,
Like I just I was just like stoked to be there,
and so I think the fact that that happened, I
was like, Man, he's a good dude. That's a good dude.
He's got it, he's got it. Oh that doesn't like
me saving a kid from a well or something. That
turns out to me, Yeah, that's that is great. Well,
(01:08:27):
you guys follow Jordan Jordan K Reynolds. I'm a big fan.
You are remarkably warm to be around. Like from from
the minute I walked in and we sat down. I've
done this enough times in one form or the other.
Either I click with someone, I can click with someone,
or I don't and we get through it. But like
(01:08:49):
you're easily You're just a guy that I think you
just like you. Thanks, super talented, you don't have to
be likable. Um, I've really enjoyed the last hour we've been.
We've just over and I've really enjoyed it. So thanks
you were that last time you're here, though, So it's
kind of weird. I'll probably again wouldn't be funny. I
every time I see him now, he's just in the
same clothes as the kind of make it a point.
(01:09:09):
I'll keep it with me just in case. Around into you.
What are you doing the rest of the day. Uh, well,
we're about to head to Texas. So my sister in
law's wedding. Okay, let's say congrats to Caitlin. You know, well, congratulate.
By the time you hear this, you'll be married. Caitlin. Congratulations.
I can't believe you're getting married. I knew all these years,
I said, I said to Jordan, I said, when Caitlin
(01:09:30):
finds him. And when I mean him, I mean Jack Jack.
You might have even said, yeah, why I said Jack
or Jackie boy, I can't remember j j Um. I
knew it was him, Caitlin. And so congratulations. This is
gonna last a long time. And wait till you hear
the song Jordan wrote just for you. He was playing
it for me on the phone. So at the wedding
them play yeah, Jordan, thank you, buddy. You guys follow
(01:09:52):
at better underscore songs, underscore and at Jordan Kay Reynolds
and I think anything else, Mike, We're good, all right,
We're good. There is is Jordan Reynolds
Welcome to Episode three seven four. Jordan Reynolds. Jordan K.
Reynolds is his Instagram. If you wanna go look at
it and see what he looks like as we do it.
I always find I like to do that during interviews.
I want to see a picture of the face the
person that I'm talking with. But here we are, Episode
three seventy four. He is a Grammy Award winning songwriter.
I mean he's got two Grammys for ten thousand hours
(00:22):
and God only knows by for King and Country. He
is a CMA Triple Play Award winner, and that means
he wrote three number one songs in a twelve month period.
He wrote Tequila, he wrote Speechless, he wrote All to
Myself with and for Dan and Shay. He's got so
many number one He was just nominated for another Grammy.
It's his fifth nomination, and he has won the a
(00:42):
c M four Song of the Year in twenty nineteen
with Tequila. But I really enjoyed this talk. I really
like someone who comes in and challenges me, not like
I'll show you, let's argue, but who like presents ideas
and I'm like, oh that's interesting, Well what about this?
I really enjoyed this talk. I hope you will too.
Jordan k Reynolds is his name, And let's go with
another episode of the Bobby Cast. I'm in that weird stage.
(01:05):
I was over my house because we just left the
radio show came here, by the way, God, you're here.
Are you tired? No? You've kind of got a dialed
at this point? Probably, Mike, are we tired? I don't
really know. I feel this way all the time. I
don't know if I'm tired. How Like, what time did
you get? That is a really good question. I did
not expect for it to stop me in my tracks.
So are you tired? Now? I get sleepy quite often,
(01:28):
But I think it would be like asking a bodybuilder
who's lifting weight? Is that heavy? Because that's what they
do all the time. They have to do it at
a high level, or they don't grow and get stronger. Well,
you been doing this for how long? Now? Just radio
itself in any form? Since I was seventeen mornings, since
(01:51):
I was twenty two. It's almost twenty years, bro, that's crazy.
So I started really I've been lucky enough to be
a grizzled veteran, but I started really young. It's so
that the most impressive part about what you do is
being tired or whatever it is and still having your
(02:12):
brain fire, because you have to be firing on all cylinders.
I wonder how firing my brain would be if I
wasn't tired, though it would probably be insane. Well, and
I appreciate you making it about me, but I don't
want to make it about me. But I guess I
think it's the end of the year too, are you?
Do you have senior ittis a bit as a writer
as a creator. So the last couple of years I've
done like a Thanksgiving through your the end of the year,
(02:34):
I just block it off just to I usually end
up writing, but like it's a good mental thing for me.
I mean, you know, like Awards week, everything starts slowing down.
Everybody's kind of like, all right, we got a couple
more weeks, and I'm just like, I think it's just
better instead of having like scheduled rights, It's like if
somebody is around and we're in town, we're like, let's
just get together. Cool, we got another plane. So I
(02:55):
kind of I do and I don't because I knew
that the finish line was already coming yesterday was the
finish line from me. It's the finish line of obligations.
That's right, that's good. Yeah, yeah, like that. I don't know.
For me, it's never senior ititis as much as it is.
I got to get all this stuff done by then.
M hmmm, because we check out. I would never stop.
(03:15):
I should. I have a wife and she makes me
and it's a good wife. Yes, but it's very It
was really tough for me at first because my whole
life I've just run as hard as I can because
I feel like I have to not to prove to
anything to anybody else, but proved myself, and I feel
like I have to or I'm not going to be
able to maintain success at all. Do you ever worry?
(03:35):
But if you don't keep writing that, you're going to
either lose an edge inside of you or people are
going to lose the fact that they think right now
you're hot and they want to work with you. Of course,
of course, I think, like you get into an industry
like this that's so subjective and you think like I
am the golden child. I think you have to literally
(03:57):
think that. You know. I love that you say that
because you have people will tell me and I'm glad.
I'm thinking, I'm thankful you said that, because I would
have said it anyway. But it comes off so much
worse if I just come out of nowhere and go like,
look at me, I'm awesome and I don't think that,
but I say it. I say it all the time,
where a lot of people will go they'll send me
a message, or people that are disagreeing with how I
(04:18):
do things, or they don't like just the show or
a TV project to work on, and they're like, you
are just You're so self obsessed, You're so self indulgent.
And I'm like, that's my career. It's either what I'm doing,
what I'm thinking, how I feel about it, what it
has to be. I'm tired of me most of the time.
Oh yeah, yeah, I think it really does. But I
(04:40):
have to believe. But I have to believe that what
I'm saying is good enough to put it out and
somebody has wants to consume, either with their time or
their money. If we're being honest, though, in literally any
job ever, you have to have that. If you're the executive,
it's some because you're getting you're stepping into a situation
where like you're looking at your calendar and you're going,
I have so much to do, Okay, the only person
(05:01):
who can do this is this Bobby, you know, like
Bobby who is on and doing it, and like you
have to convinced to that. But like say you're Elon
Musk and you're going into a meeting and you're like, sure,
he's got impostius. He is the richest man in the world,
but like he's been really lucky too. He's going into
meetings going like I any decision I make really really
(05:23):
affects things, and I have to have the confidence to
know like I can do this. And it doesn't mean
like you're egotistical. I don't think it just you just
have to believe in yourself, you know. And there is
a line and I don't always cross or I don't
always walk it correctly where confidence and arrogance meat, and
sometimes I don't. I'm not quite as confident I should be.
(05:44):
Sometimes I'm so confident that comes off the aga. Sometimes
I'm really confident in some areays and just insecures craping others. Yeah,
so I could come off where it's like, oh, stop
doing this act where you just you hate yourself. No, no, no,
there are parts of me that really I've struggled a
long time with you and don't really love and I'm
trying get better, and there are parts of me where
I go, oh, I'm I'm a well oiled freaking machine.
(06:05):
Put myself up against anybody. We we like have this
weird thing in our culture where you can't um, you
can't fully endorse yourself, you know, like it's it's such
a bizarre thing. But we also want people who like
know what they're doing. So I think the ticket to
that feels like if you do ride the line, if
you overstep and you've stepped into arrogance or whatever, it's
(06:26):
like just like you've done You've done a lot of
work on yourself. It's obviously seems like like you can
just apologize. Like that's the cool part of humanity is
like anytime we mess up and just be like, ah,
you know what, remember that thing I said. I didn't
mean that. You know, Yeah, culture doesn't allow completely for that,
But our culture doesn't really allow nuance. What's and you
make a point where it's like, yes, people want this,
(06:48):
but they also don't want this. But they want this,
but at the same time, it doesn't allow nuance at all,
so you're kind of you're just fistfighting the wind. Yeah,
that's right, that you can't really win. Every thing's nuanced religion,
you know, music, everything. Yeah, yet there isn't room for
it in the world that we live in because the
(07:10):
loudest folks are those that don't live nuanced. There's you know,
pretty black and white. There are some situations that I've
been in and i'll talk about it now, and I
really haven't talked about this at all, but I feel
like I can safely talk about your super bright guy. Um,
whenever Morgan got into trouble and I came on the
other next morning and I'll just talk about stuff, and
(07:33):
I got on the air and it's all on YouTube
still to this day. I never pulled it, and I said,
here's what's up. He's got to go away for a
little bit. I don't think we should cancel because I
don't believe in canceling folks. But I do believe in
second chances, and I do so I do this thing
where I say, we're not canceling him, but he can't
just stay right now. So I get crushed from for
(07:53):
the sake of it. We'll call it the woke side.
They're like, no, you cancel him right now, or you
are the problem. The other side we'll call the non
woke side. They're going, you don't tell him to go away.
He stays right here and you there, and I'm going
in my mind and I haven't read any blogs. I
(08:16):
just say what I feel because I don't want to
be shifted by someone else's perspective. I tell my story.
I talk about how it's affected me, how I don't
even understand how it's affected others, because I don't live
the life of somebody that's not me. I explained my
education yet my ignorance, and I try to make sure
(08:36):
everybody knows that. And then I say, here's my opinion.
He and I know Morgan, and I like Morgan, and
i'd like Morgan. I said, but this is bad. It's
a mess up. He's got to go learn and he's
got to come back. But I was sensibility has no allies. No,
it doesn't, and it sucks. Well. I think what you
don't see, though, in what you don't hear as loud,
(08:59):
is all the people who totally agree with you at
all think about like politically even you know, in the
realm that we're all in. It's like my generation doesn't
know what to think because we're like, um, I'm not
far right. I'm not far left. I believe this, and
I believe that. Like, but like you're not allowed to
(09:20):
like if you if you say you are this thing,
then you are also all these other things. There's no nuance.
So I just think a lot more people fall in
the middle on those things and just wholeheartedly agree, Like, yeah,
people shouldn't just be canceled. Like it's like third Jesus
in here. It's like throw the first stone, draw the line,
throw the first stone. He without sin, you know, like
(09:41):
all these people who are like the loudest probably about
canceling him. I don't know. It's like, all right, well,
what have you done perfectly? You know there are consequences
to things. Yeah, there's consequences. Absolutely. I was crushed. It
was a nightmare for me, and I just I didn't
expect to have no But I don't care if people
(10:01):
come out and support me, because I've built a career
off just saying how I feel in dealing where they
go to bad. But I didn't I feel like everyone
that would reach out, meaning uh folks through social media.
Everybody would be against me because those are the people
that that say stuff though, like people that are bold
and loud. And but even that with the arrogance in
the confidence fine line and if I win the middle
(10:25):
and what it's like, well then who are you? What
the it's it's difficult and nuances not really, I won't
say accepted. Nuance is not really encouraged. It's everything, dude,
everything is nuanced. Yeah, it's fascinating when you talk about politics.
You know, I I don't say I'm down the middle,
but I definitely say I do things and enjoy things
(10:45):
on both sides. I'm not down the middle. Yeah I'm not.
But did I grow up with guns in a small
rural town in Arkansas and I see that as a tool.
I also know it can be a weapon. But do
I see it as a tool? And we need to
describe absolutely? Do I all so think with guns? We
shouldn't let idiots get guns and they should have to
go through a process a little harder than absolutely. That's nuanced.
(11:06):
That is, yes, you're taking a little bit of both sides.
And I will scream this and I will say, hey, look,
if we want to drive a car, which I'll drive
a car to work. Got a license. When I had
to drive an eighteen Whelard from my nat GEO show,
I had to go and get a different license. It
was bigger and it could do more damage. And so
when I have a twelve gauge, but then I want
to go to one of these. Okay, I'm not a
big fan of gum, but I'm not gonna say my
(11:27):
my ability what I say goes. So Okay, let's say
that gun still exists, but you should probably have to
get that eight te wheeler of license to be able
to do that. And I think it's like the easiest
thing that common sense common sense, But yes, it is tough.
And where would you put your confidence? Like when people
meet you, will work with you a couple of times,
how do they feel about your general demeanor because you
(11:50):
are a guy who's done a lot, succeeded at a
very high level of confident person. Does it ever come
across as too humble or to to too confident? Even man,
that is great. I don't know how people perceive me
honestly completely, But like I think something that I try
to do is create like a comfortable space where people can,
(12:10):
like you're doing right now, have a healthy conversation. Have
you met with Laura Belts recently nominated for Laura Songwriter
of the Year in The Grammy's Unreal. She's been a
dear friend of mine. We kind of got started at
similar time. You know, she's a little before me. But
something I've really respected about our relationship is and if
every writer relationship could be like this, I just wish it,
(12:31):
and this is what I try to create. But we
have We come from very different places, we have very
different views on things a lot of times, but we
can sit and have a conversation and I mean talk
about the world in general, Like that's what's missing, is
we're so scared of things that we don't understand and
it's generally not as scary as you think, and there's
nuance like it's I mean, I remember growing up and
(12:52):
thinking totally black and white and certain things that now
I'm like, oh my gosh. I mean I just had
no empathy for these things. Are didn't know that side
of the story because there was no exposure. Probably that's
been it for me to write. The more exposure I get.
Two things the more I have an empathy or an
understanding that I don't understand totally dude. I mean it's
it's everything. Yeah, So I don't know. I mean I've
(13:14):
definitely I think I can feel it. I feel like
the arrogance and confidence thing. But generally speaking, I try.
Like I mean, songwriting is such a service industry. Um,
It's it's kind of similar to what you do, Like
you're really good at making other people look good. It's
like that's kind of my job too, um is find
like a tasteful way to plot the best things in
(13:34):
an artist or best thing in other songs. So I
think to do that, you have to create an environment
where people are just like totally feel like they're safe
to say whatever they need to say. They can be
who they want to be. And you know, past a
certain level, you know, like we're trying to write like
hit songs, we're just not trying to finish the song anymore,
you know, So we have to really be nuanced and
(13:55):
how we create an environment that feel safe enough to
do that? You know what I mean? You grew up
in the Midwest? What was home? Like? I was a kid, Um,
so both my parents my dad was a music pastor
at a pretty big church in St. Louis, and like,
we did that all grown up. So I was a
p K pastor's kid. That is. Um. So, both my
(14:17):
parents and musicians, they never did it, like on a
bigger scale. I think they would have, UM, but they try.
They actually were in a like a tour. I say
that right out of college, um or high school. They
went in this like Internationals I think was the name,
and they went around and like did acapella music for
kind of all over the world. But they got to
experience how hard it is though. I mean they knew, yeah,
(14:41):
but that was the beauty of it too. Is like
I never I came here and went to Belmont, and
I never once thought like a creative job was out
of the question, just because I saw my dad. You know,
I saw my parents doing things that were not My
dad is just not the typical dad. You know, my
mom's not the typical moment, it's like there was a
lot of freedom to be like, all right, you wanna
(15:03):
quit taking piano lessons, that's cool, I don't care, you know,
like usually it's one of two ways. That's interesting that
he was like that because you get parents that are
jaded by the experience or the art, even if they're
still in it and go, man, I don't want you
to do this. Yeah, I already sensed that temptation because
we've we've been on the roller coaster of it and
seen like the super highs and the super lows and
(15:24):
you're just like, oh, I don't know. But in the
same breath, I see like the positive side, I'm just
so pro like whatever our kids end up wanting to do,
like just letting him do it, Like there's gonna be
smart kids and they're gonna figure it out. Like I mean,
I applied to one school, which is just not crazy
to think about, but I just was like, that's what
my parents like, we trust us where he wants to go,
(15:45):
and he's gonna, you know, if that's what he wants
to do, and it worked out. But yeah, it's like
trusting that our kids will do them do the same.
But did you do music because a like, intrinsically it's
just an existence and you you think maybe be genetically
because it was in them, or and and is the
answer can be there can even be nuance to this answer?
(16:06):
Or do you think because of your mom or dad
and their love for music. You wanted there to love,
so you did what they love, which actually encouraged you
to love it more. Wow. What a question, man. You're
great at asking questions. That's a good that's a good
talent to have to Um, maybe both, maybe a little
(16:27):
bit of both. I definitely grew up so I grew
up playing classical violin. Like in third grade we had
to play an instrument and it was violin. So did
you choose violin? I don't remember choosing anything. I just
feel like one day I had a violin and then
I looked up senior year and I was like, I've
been doing this for a long time. Um it, I
think like music stuff always came natural. I honestly didn't
(16:48):
think about it. I hate it sounds like Braggy's saying that.
I just I honestly didn't see myself. So I don't
know if you know Cody Fry he um good buddies
with Ben Rector that care he played for him. He's
DUDEO met a belmat just like Freak. He's a prodigy
dude like just genius level musician And I tht oh
those huture musicians. But is he is he playing with
Ben on his next Yeah, I mean I talked to
(17:10):
Been this morning, but I really close crazy Yeah okay, okay, yeah,
go ahead. Yeah. So I would see those dudes like musicians.
I'm like, oh, codies musician. He knows every single thing
he can, you know whatever, And so it wasn't really
to a college. I started going like, oh, I think
I do have something kind of innately in me, Like
I think there's something in me that just like has
to get out. And it's wild too, because songwriting. I mean,
(17:34):
before I moved to Nashville, I did not know songwriting existed,
like I was. I didn't think about I didn't care.
So you didn't come here to be a songwriter. You
came here for I don't know, finger quotes music. Yeah,
I mean I so I got to senior year of
high school and I mean I had literally I've just
done like hardcore, classical violent. That was like my life.
What did you think that was gonna lead to? Was
(17:54):
it gonna stop? Like like I played football until twelfth grade,
and I played a lot, but I knew it was
stopping after twelveth grade the moment I knew. So they
have those like all State orchestras or whatever the things,
and I just I'm like, I love being around people.
I like a deep connection, and I like a good conversation.
So I went to this all state thing and in
(18:15):
senior year, and it's literally just all about what chair
you're sitting in, like, and if you're sitting at the
closer chair, you know, to the people, that means you
are better than the person next to you whatever as
you go up on. So there just wasn't a lot
of like relationship in any of that. And I just
remember thinking I went to this thing and I was like,
I tried to talk to my stand partner and they
(18:36):
were just kind of like I didn't want anything to
do with it, and I was like, I don't think
this is the right place for me. I love music,
and so a lot of crowds. To my oldest brother Josh,
he uh, he's a like a freak audio guy. He's
been with a little big town do in front of
house for them for like over ten years. He engineers
their records and stuff now, but at the time he
was like, why don't you just come to Belmont, like
(18:58):
do do a vocal degree? Because girl he was dating
at the time was a voice pager. It's so weird
to think of all the things that hang in the batch.
I like had sung at church, you know, I was
in a band, but like loose, I didn't I had
know what it was doing. And so my rationale I
was like, all right, well, I can teach myself to
play instruments, I can't really teach myself to sing, right,
(19:20):
So I mean, dude, it's wild thinking, like I just
wanted with a voice macher. So me and Russell Dickerson
were like in the same major, same time, and we're
the only two guys who graduated with that degree at
the time too, because everybody usually drops out. That's what
am I supposed to do with this degree? So? Wait,
so you finished it? You got a voice degree? I
sure do. Did you in that process of getting a
(19:42):
voice grade, do you study songwriting at all or do
you just study is sing better? Does? Yeah? It's mostly
just singing better. So it's a commercial voice degree, which
means anything but classical. But you also the first two
years all you study is classical, which is hilarious. Um. Yeah,
it's basically just to like the mean, honestly, the I
would do these panels of like perspective. One of the
(20:04):
word is students and their parents would come in and
they would ask us. Parents was tray to ask you,
what are you going to do with a voice major?
And I just made something up. I mean, I don't
even remember what I said at this point, I would
be more honestly, I don't really know. You know. Uh.
One of my good friends christ and Rogers, I think
is probably doing like the epitome of what you can
do with the voice major. And she's like unbelievable b GV.
(20:27):
She's like sings with everybody like she is like a
professional singer. But did she need that voice degree or
or the second part of that is did the process
of getting that degree help her achieve the level that
she needed or did it just bring her here and
then she did it while she was here? I mean,
who knows? I think I'm I'm such a I'm so
(20:50):
pro I wouldn't change anything because everything got you exactly
what you needed. But like I you know, yeah you
learned that. And I'm asking because I have a dumb
degree to here isn't dumb, but I'm saying people classifies
and I also now say it's a waste and I
think I was talking to some guys the last time.
I said, I went and spoke at a college and said,
(21:12):
don't you're here for this, we don't do it, get out,
get something else, because yeah, and they told me not
to come back. There was a whole situation which kind
of a blessing in disguise, you know, less less things
to do. Um, So I have radio television, but I
started when I was was seventeen, and then I you know,
(21:35):
then I wrote in college as well, but it was
a I was already doing it, and so I told
people to do just go do it well, and that
that was always the thing of Belmont. There was the
Belmont bubble, you know. It's like we did the showcases
and stuff, which was fun and it did bring some
cool opportunities, but for the most part, it was always
like there were the people who did everything Belmont. There
were the people who did things outside of Belmont, and
(21:55):
that was the experience. It's just I was just telling
somebody that I like, we're just getting to the place
now where our friends from Belmont have like kind of
powerful positions now at companies and it's kind of starting
to pay off. You're like, I remember when I knew
none of these A R people, and now these are
people are my friends, and I can be like, hey, man,
you should check out this song for dust much, you know,
like that makes it so much easier and more fun,
(22:18):
and it just feels like a family. So yeah, I
think I think going through the I needed college. I
needed those for you sing better, Like what's the point
you definitely do. Yeah, I had a my um my
voice teacher's name is Jamie Wingington, and he's, in my opinion,
one of the best. Did you want to be a
singer when you finished? I've listened to the EP I've
heard I've heard your stuff, right, But I wonder what
(22:40):
you learned about yourself in the process. Was it because
obviously you're having to start songwriting at some point, you
didn't know what that was a thing? You're singing your
recording you like, were you just experimenting? Definitely? I was
flying by the seat of my pants. I was having
a blast. Just I was like playing for people. Um.
I worked at a urch for a few years and
(23:01):
I was leading worship there, so it's like I was
using my degree, but I was genuine just like I'm
just gonna stumble into something I think I knew like
I wanted to be. I did a lot of demo work,
like acoustic stuff early on. That's how I f first
met John Osborne. Like before brothers Osborne was doing anything,
you know, playing sessions and stuff, and man, I stumbled
(23:22):
hard into song running. I just had no idea, Like
I I it's impossible for me to like give advice
to younger people because I'm like, I don't know what
you do. You know, like moved to Nashville and just
start writing songs. You know, it's like that's the first place.
Are you an eternal optimists? Oh? Absolutely, I feel it. Yeah,
And you're going you know, I just felt like I
stumbled into something. Oh yeah, So in your mind is
(23:43):
it just gonna work out? It's always gonna work out.
It's interesting I feel that I feel the opposite eternal pessimist.
It's oh, man, I wish there was a word for
a longer fascinating. I love you. Have you met Jordan
Minton another Shawn Marion Towns coming. He's got a couple
of hits. One of my best s buddies. He is
the same way and we have the best conversations because
(24:03):
we view think I'll be so shocked about Wait, what
do you mean it's not. Of course it's gonna work out,
you know, I believe it's gonna work out for others.
Nothing works out for me. That's fascinating. Yeah, nothing works
out for me, and if it does, it's because it
has had to fail seventy three times and I am
just tenacious enough to last to finally make it work out.
(24:25):
That's my that's fascinating. Yeah. Completely, it's like and Nope,
it's not gonna work. Whatever we're doing a gonna work.
So does that mean like you're constantly are you anxious
about the future? Where does your brain completely? Yeah? Absolutely,
absolutely anxious about everything. I think I'm gonna get sick
and die. I think I'm going to the big issue
that I've had. What's your Instagram number eight? You're an eight? Yeah?
(24:49):
Is that the dictator? Yeah, it's the Yes, I'm that
one eight and I'm really close to a one, like
it was like so close to being a one ectrotionist.
I'm a challenger, that's what I am. Yeah, that's the eight.
I would challenge. Um, I'll challenging, but something I know
I'm wrong. I'm like, oh, yeah, you think this right, Well,
I know that's not right, but I'm my challenge you
to beg with you and yeah, but I'm gonna make sure. Um,
(25:13):
but I feel like it isn't going to work itself
out until I have to break it figure out how
to put it back together in its own way that
allows me to work it out. That is just it
blows my mind. And I'm sure it's trauma. Yeah, yeah,
something taught you that somewhere along the way. Or it's
love or lack or you know, all these things that
(25:34):
we have no idea how they've affected us and when
they've affected us. But yeah, my my wife who grew
up different than me. She's from a small town in
Oklahoma and I grew up small town in Arkansas. We
have that in common. They're actually pretty close. Her mom
and dad are still together and they're awesome. I never
had parents, and so it was like learning a new
language and what she struggles with me and I totally
(25:57):
understand her not understanding, which I think for me it's
a valuable lesson is I now can understand I don't
understand things, and why other people can't understand things is
that I'm always freaking out that I'm not gonna be
able to pay bills soon. And she's like, you'd be
like for the rest of your life, You're gonna be fine.
And I'm like, but I don't think you understand what if?
What if? She goes But she has the hardest time
of understanding that all my trauma is rooted in. I
(26:20):
can't go back to how it was. Yeah, I will
never go back. And I think that's a lot of
that is there. Now. I'm a positive person. I am
someone who pursues it and love it and put it
up and show everybody like somebody like yourself. I praised
you around town like this is Jordan. Everybody, I put
you up one of those big speakers like Jordan. The
most part. You should love them because I love it.
(26:42):
I just I wish that was more me. Yeah, man,
but I know it, like I know myself. Do you
feel like you know your You know yourself now at
this point? Do you like yourself? I'm starting to learn
myself definitely better. I'm starting to like believe things for myself.
I feel like most people do that, like in their twenties,
mine didn't really it to like thirties. Um, what has
(27:03):
really like kind of made me lock into like the
some of these things. But speaking to bed director, he
posted some song the other day and like the one
of the lyrics said, like I'm I started, I've stopped
blaming my parents for everything or whatever it was. And
we have two kids now, they're young, it's like three
and one. But I already can kind of see some
of these things you when we're talking about. Yes, I
(27:23):
think trauma does absolutely affect us in certain ways, but
there are certain things that are like innately in us,
like we're talking about, like with the difference with my
little boy my little girl. Already I can be like,
oh my gosh, I mean, like we didn't teach my
little boy will get like he'll run into the wall
face first. I mean, he is bleeding from his nose
and he'll just well like, buddy, are you okay? He's
(27:44):
like I'm fine, I'm fine. I'm like, You're not fine?
Was that you? Um? I don't know. I actually don't know.
I didn't ask my mom. But we've never taught him
like hey, suck it up, you know, like, don't don't
show your emotion. If anything, we are on the other
side of that, so like some of those things you're like,
you know, you just don't you can't teach, Like maybe
it's just in us and nature nurtures this super Like
(28:07):
I'm so intrigued and even curious about myself because I
never knew my dad. Are you left us? Five and so?
But I will run into people from time to time
back home that will go, oh, you're just like him,
that is Wild. You're you're you're, you're you're quick like him.
You said you do multiple things, And I'm like, well,
(28:29):
that's weird. I didn't get it from him because I
was around him, so whatever it is, it's kind of
embedded inside of Wild. And I wondered too, like some
of that stuff like skipped around generations and you're like, oh,
you're just like you're great grandfathers. Yeah you know what
I'm saying, Like some of that stuff to shows up.
I don't know your parents, are they they still they're
still with us, still with us? Yeah? Yeah, they actually
(28:50):
moved um to Hendersonville about ten years. They're here. Yes,
they're here. So my oldest brothers here, they're in like Goodlittzville.
The only other sibling. H No, I've got another one
on his name is Jeremy he is. He was in
the UK for a bunch of years. He's an actor
and did a lot of theater stuff arts. Yeah, it's crazy.
I mean it is kind of wild, um, But I
(29:12):
think so much of that is just the belief thing.
It's like we all knew we could do it because
our parents did. But also the energy that your parents
put into letting, because it takes a lot of work
for for them to express and prove to you guys
that you can go into the work and do whatever
you want. Like that's that's a lot of energy from
them just to be able to convince you guys that
(29:32):
if you do the work, you can do whatever. Oh yeah,
I think too. There's some beauty of growing up we weren't.
We were lower middle class, you know. And I don't
say that to shame my parents. I say it to
congratulate my parents. We had an amazing childhood, you know,
like it was. It was a beautiful childhood, and my
parents did everything they could to make an amazing I
never feel like I missed out on anything. Um, But
(29:55):
there's like a beauty to growing up with nothing essentially,
you know, like we need I have to go on
vacation or anything, because when I got into college, like
there was no expectation of like, well you better start
making six figures, you know, like that was never That's
still my parents don't give a crap, you know, they
don't care what we're making, Like they just wanted to
be doing what we love and like that that I
(30:16):
can already like sense that, like, oh is this gonna
be different from my kids now because they're going to
grow up with a little more means and that like
I we're just trying to be very intentional about like
not letting that stuff pass off because I think there's
some beauty and going like you don't need to do
what dad did to be successful, Like that just doesn't matter.
I already know that, you know success. Have you read
(30:36):
um Psychology of Money? Um? But as money, I usually, uh,
I'm scared of it and don't read it and go
let somebody else do business managers they're great. Yeah, yes,
if now I struggled with that big time, just paying
somebody to look at have my money, talked about money
(30:56):
letting go of control. It was the hardest I couldn't built.
I'm gonna you're you're gonna have access to all the
wait what and I'm gonna pay you to have acts
and and other people do this. I mean I probably
spent multiple multiple therapy sessions just talking about that. That
well it's funny because I well, yeah, talk about a
difference in our brand. I when we because we have
(31:17):
just started working with this finishment in the last few months,
and instantly, I mean I had a like my body
had a reaction of us having been in a positive way.
Like I didn't realize how anxious and stressed I was
trying to do it all my own until we gave it.
I'm like, within the week, my stomach started feeling better
all these things because I was just like, you know what,
(31:38):
it's gonna be great now because I don't have to
deal with love it. It's just wild. Yeah, I'm envious
that that you can do that, and I'm trying to
get better at that. Yeah, it's tough because because it
hasnt worked out. You know, I'll be honest, I can
do that too. I look at myself and go, you
know what you say, But well, here's the danger of
being in an internal optimist because it's it is like,
it's cool. I like this, let's do dangers about danger,
(32:00):
let's do let's do pros and con this is good.
Do pros first. What's what's the pro of being an
eternal optimist? Um, anything is possible, Like any room, Like
when I go in to write a song, I say
this out loud, I'll say, there is no reason why
we cannot write a song of the year today. There's
no reason. I mean, like look at I mean, I
remember going like when we wrote Tequila, like we weren't
(32:22):
even in that headspace yet, and like that can happen.
So it's like, gosh, now that we're trying to do it,
like we can definitely do it, you know what I mean. Like,
So that's the positive. Anything is possible, any write, any
combination of people, anything, we can make it work. All right,
let me positive. Here's positive being eternal pessimist. You're never
disappointed because you are, well, it's gonna happen anyway, You're
(32:45):
I'm I'm almost never disappointed because I already don't expect
it to work out. So when it doesn't, yeah, uh
and you all yeah and you and you rarely get
hurt because you are do you expect the worst to
happen because it has before it will happen again. So
you're almost never disappointed and you never heard. So you're
(33:07):
you're you, You're protected by the way. I'm not saying
this is the way to go. I'm just saying this
is this is the positive about that. I totally get that. Yeah, okay,
go with the opposite side of yours. Okay. So, like,
speaking of business management, um, I'm telling my friend who's
an eight, one of my best buddies. I'm telling him like,
because I'm so excited about this, and I'm like, dude,
(33:27):
we're gonna do business minute. They're gonna take everything like
I don't have to think about it again. And his
first thought, I'm thinking he's gonna be like, dude, that's awesome.
He's like, yes, So who audits them? And I was like,
what do you mean why I don't audit them. He's like, dude,
they have complete control over your finances. And I was like,
I didn't look at it that way. So the danger
(33:49):
can be and you know, I'm like caution, I would
say I'm more depending on the situation, I'm more cautiously optimistic,
Like when it comes to an investment, like the pro
of that, like we got into thirty A because I
was just like, let's do it, you know, like we're
gonna do it, and took an aggressive move and it
(34:09):
really paid off to be down there. But then after
that I had to sit and go, this is not
going to happen again, most likely, So let's now be
cautiously optimistic and not just throw everything at the wall
and it's all gonna stick, you know, Like so that
those are the you know what I'm saying, Like you
can get yourself in trouble thinking everything's gonna work out
because realistically, not everything's gonna work out. You buy a
(34:30):
lot of crypto, and I bought something it might be
working out, but it might work my Okay, here's the
bad part about being an eternal pessimist is that it's
hard to find real joy. M hmm, hard to celebrate.
(34:51):
Oh no, no, no, I never said, I mean, yeah,
that's tough. It is. I will tell you that it's
hard to celebrate for an optimist too, because is I
think part of it is like you think your best
days are yet to come, and you're like, oh, this
is this is cool, but this is not. This is
not gonna be the biggest thing we've ever done. And
then you look back on things and you go like
(35:12):
that was pretty big. Maybe I should have just been
excited when that was happening, Like that's that's where my
brain goes. And my wife talked about a good wife,
like she's so good about small things now, you know,
like going, hey, we just the other night. Doesn't Lynch
face time me on a Friday night and he was
just I pick up the thing and he's playing this
new song that me and Devin Dawson and Lisa Vannerhem
(35:35):
wrote and it jacked me up. I don't like, I
feel like I wouldn't. Normally I'd be like, okay, cool, Yeah,
he's a kind of song. You know that's great, But
is it gonna be a single? I don't know how,
you know, or you know whatever. So in those moments,
like that moment, I sat back down on the couch
and I was like, I'm so fired up right now.
Like this song that I love, doesn't Lynch his face
time me. He's in love with it. Zach crowd loves it.
(35:57):
This is sick, you know, Like and my office like
wait to go. Oh that's awesome. You know, this is cool.
You're celebrating this Moe. I was like, I'm gonna be
excited about this, like you know, so that's that's where
it can get celebrating. I think either way is tricky.
It for different reasons. And I think if it's something
cool one, well there ain't never gonna happen again. You're like, well,
(36:19):
surely there's another there's not. There's some bigger coming. And
I'm like, well, this is it, this is this probably
is truly this is the top of the mountain. But
my again, my wife, who has been such a great
I won't even say counterbalance. I think she's just been
She's added complete elements of complete balance or elements because
I'm definitely not there. She will force me to, even
(36:40):
if I don't fully accept it here and recognize why
some little moments should be acknowledged. And sometimes you wouldn't
make me say the word celebrate, but she'll be like, okay, cool,
well we're we're not gonna be so pump. We're gonna
at least acknowledge right now this, even if it means
I mean small things. It's like my wife doesn't drink.
(37:01):
I don't really drink that much, you know, Like so
like alcohol is always the first celebration. I feel like
for most people, it's like, hey, we're going to like
make a nice meal tonight, or we're gonna go out
to dinner to night, and it's like it's not that
big of a deal, but we're gonna do something to
remember how this felt, you know what I mean, Like,
that's just I think it's necessary. I don't want to
get the end of all of this and be like, man,
(37:23):
I just I just didn't celebrate. I didn't I wasn't excited,
and like all these people looking at our lives and
going like what you weren't excited about that stuff? Like
how could you not enjoy that? You know, I get
that from her? How why are you not enjoying this? Yeah,
like we'll go on a trip and not in a
shameful way, no, not at all. It's like, come on,
this is awesome. You know. My wife is very much like, hey, bro,
(37:45):
like why do you work so hard all the time
and kill yourself and have these huge goals? If you
have every once a while, I can't actually celebrate, like
can't have some of the spoils that you've worked for.
And so we'll be well, you know, we'll go on
to trip things like though I wouldn't ever be able
to do in my life, and she'll go, look look
what you look what we got to do because this
is what you like. So so going back to the
(38:09):
psychology of money thing, Um, this guy said this, and
I've I feel like I have to repeat it to
myself weakly, but he said he interviewed all these billionaires
in the book is amazing in general. But he um,
he's like, what is success? What is wealth? What is success?
You ask those people and they said, the ability to
wake up and do what you want to do, with
(38:30):
who you want to do, for as long as you
want to do, And that is true success. You could
do that making thirty grand a year, you know what
I mean. Like, um, but that's like the beauty. Going
back to like this enjoying the spoils of it. There's
almost like a thing in our culture of like, well,
you're doing it, you're right, so right it all the
way out, you know, all the way like take full
advantage of it. And in the meantime you're like not
(38:50):
getting to spending time with your wife or your kids
or whatever. You know, Like it's like you gotta enjoy it,
you know, like yeah, that that is the point of
all of it, you know, like you in the balance
in it. You got a couple of Grammys. Uh yeah,
we got one. I mean I thought you got one
for maybe two so Dan and Shay one for the
(39:14):
accounts tequila in ten thours. You didn't. You don't win
Speechless maybe okay? So are you loosely associated? You're loosely grams?
I think like three or four okay, but you have
one physical one that we just got nominated yesterday for
another Christian Grammy Country, right, yeah, for Kan Country. That's awesome.
So random. Yeah, um, why Ben Vaughan, you know, Wren
(39:38):
travel He uh, he came to me and Josh Kerr.
It was like a couple of years ago. Hey, um,
He's like, you guys are you guys are Christians? Right?
And you write music? You should you should get together
with for King Country. And I was like, I know
that math makes sense in your head, but I don't
write Christian songs like so this could be a train wreck.
(40:00):
And literally the first day we got together, we wrote
the song God only knows that ended up winning the Grammy.
It was like it just started this insane like super cool,
you know, i'm CCM is so tricky for me. Contemporary
Christian music. Yeah, yeah, now you're in. Now you're in
the biz. It can come across cheesy if you're not careful.
And so I think, like, what's cool about those guys.
(40:22):
They just do such a good job of making like
real good music, Like it's really good. We have great
conversations about life with those guys. I just love making
music with those dudes. They're just wholesome dudes. You do
you cut the track, it's out whatever. Was it a
success in that world as just a song, Yeah, it was,
(40:43):
like I think it was like a fourteen week number one.
That's that's success. Yeah, But but that world is a
little different than country. It's like what country used to
be kind of fourteen weeks or at anything. Yeah, I mean,
if I'm playing Madden and I'm I win fourteen super
Bowl against the computer on rookie mode, I'm still I
was pretty freaking good. That's pretty good, man. I don't
I can't actually pretend to completely understand that side of
(41:03):
the industry, but like, um, yeah, it was a it
was a pretty big success in that world, and it's
just cool. I mean, man, I don't I feel like
in songwriting I have to do a lot of different
things to keep me interested, were inspired, you know, And
so those have been just like super fun ways to
feel inspired. And you know, like we come into it
(41:25):
not being Christian writers and go like what if we
said this, and like, gosh, we would never say that
in this, you know what I mean. Like that's kind
of how I fell getting into country. It was like
I don't know the country lingo that well growing up
in St. Louis. I've got some country grandparents, you know,
But like I had to like kind of fake my
way through it until I knew what was going on.
(41:45):
But I also had something to say that all the
country people didn't have to say, you know what I mean.
So there's it's like harnessing that piece of you that's
a little different, that's okay. You know, was your first
I know your first number one was tequila? Hopefully I'm
right on this. Was that your first single was my
first single? Are you kidding me? It was the first
single in your first number one? Man, we went tequila.
Speechless on myself ten thousand hours. Glad, I think I
(42:09):
should probably go to Bow before that. And then like
Glad you exist we had this ride and I knew
it wasn't real. It's like, all right, yes we got
into the right time. Yeah, you know, like it it's
said horribly unrealistic expectations, even though I knew it shouldn't,
you know what I mean, Like, I just had incredibly
unrealistic expectations. It's crazy. That was your first single. I'm
(42:31):
not even talking about number one because it was such
a massive song. And I will also say it was
a complete bias. We're very close to Abby and Dan. Yeah,
and Dan said he's gonna stop by by the way. Great,
I mean, he's around the car. He probably knows the code.
I mean, we're my wife and Abby are like best
of friends, so we're so that being said, I still
(42:52):
that Tequila was such a Donna Donna Donna and then
the freak the Jaws just attacked that shark was so
big for so long. It was a real staple of
that year in country music. And that's your first single.
It was crazy. I remember, Um, could you even appreciate it? Yeah, no, no,
definitely not. I mean I remember, like vividly, this was
(43:17):
the first time this is kind of happening. So before
Tequila came out speaking of three day we were down there.
We're staying at christ and Hillary's house, Hillary Scott's house,
and I had come with my in laws. So I'm
playing for my sister in law. She's always been a
great like uh test for me. I'll play new songs
for him, Like what do you She's just a country listener,
you know. So I played her four or five songs
we've been you know whatever, and I'm just playing acoustic
(43:38):
and I got done with tequila and she was like,
you did not write that song? And I was like,
I mean, yeah, I did, but it wasn't even like
my most I wasn't even most excited about that song.
It's like just how we you know. And that was
like October so and I was like, yeah, I think
it's actually the next Dan and Jay single, you know, like,
which is crazy, you know, um, but the first one
(43:59):
off that Problem Jake because it was the first project.
I remember the new the new aesthetic with that song.
Oh yeah, all the symbols and yeah that I mean.
Props to Dan and h and Rohan Colie over at
Warner like Rohan had just signed on him and Dan
have been good buddies for a long time and Um
Rohan's first project was basically convincing everyone at Warner that
(44:21):
Tequila needed to be the first single. They were not
in a stage in their career technically on paper where
you could just throw a ballot out as the first single.
I don't even know if really anybody's in that stage ever,
you know, like it's a tough spot to be in.
And Rohan is like, I will put my life on this,
which is a I mean, he did so much behind
the scenes to make that song happen. You just never
know like it. But what it did was it set
(44:44):
up the rest of the record to be elevated. You know,
like if it had gone you know, all to myself
first or whatever else, even like it would have changed
the trajectory of that whole project. So the year and
or so or nineteen whatever, the year we had lost
the c M A and the Grammy and then won
(45:06):
the A c M it was a wild Yeah. I
remember when it lost the c M A because I
was I was with Dan. It was a dark night.
It was a dark night, and Dan and I are
a lot alike, and we were both pretty o C
D about different things. Dance, O C D like crazy.
I'm O c D like crazy. He's also doing it
(45:26):
crazy and I respect it and love it and but
get it. And I remember just going O man. So
I just I reached out that night and after we
had talked, and I was like, bro, I noticed what
I'll be feeling right now. Maybe you're not, maybe you're not,
But I felt like that. And I said this in
an Instagram even the other day, how Dana had such
(45:49):
as with you guys had such a massive collection and
it wasn't rewarded when it should have been. So then
everyone knew it and started to get rewarded afterward later
because of because they were that should have been rewarded. Yeah,
isn't that always happens in award shows too? It seems
like like the Grammys, like somebody will win the next year.
I firmly believe that's why I haven't won the No
(46:10):
About Peace Prize yet. Any one more year and the
next year, Yes, that's it has to be right, you know, Yeah,
I think it could happen. I did feel like you
guys hardcore were robbed out of this Song of the
Year there, But again, how mad can you be whenever
you're on such a run man. I just you know,
I have said this to other songwriters. It's like winning awards.
(46:30):
Nobody remembers who won the last year. BEFO. We're talking honestly,
nobody gives a crap. Absolutely, but winning is sick having
an award in your studio. If it helps people like
legitimize you or whatever or just trust you more, then
that's great. But don't put all your eggs into I've
got to win or even I gotta win Songwriter of
the Year. It's like we're in the age of Ashley Gorley.
(46:52):
You're not winning song at the root. But someone would say,
can I counterpoint you? Yes, because I don't believe and
I believe what you're saying about the point anyway, Okay,
that's cold. Jordan's've written all these number one songs, so
shut up and telling me what I should be happy
with having. Whenever you came out of the womb with
the number one. Yeah, oh, I mean yeah, By the way,
I don't I don't even believe what I said right there,
(47:12):
but I was just no, it's good to have the countram.
I mean yeah, but it's I think sometimes seek validation
from what I would consider respected peers. Yeah, and I
think because you're right, nobody remembers the awards. They honestly don't.
It's always easier when, of course, yeah, a winner saying
a ward shows don't matter. It's like, well, easy for
(47:33):
you to say, right, yeah. And it's like me trying
to host the c M A S. I'm like, eventually
they got to give it to me, and so many people,
big folks, Hey, it doesn't matter, nobody cares. But I'm like, no, no,
that's been that's been what I've been working toward forever.
But it's a personal thing, right, And it does always
seem to go that you don't know what you got,
(47:53):
know that, like you you know, once you get the validation,
say you're a country artist, you get the validation of
country radio. Bobby Bones is on your team and he's
playing your music. Rarely actually does that line up with
a lot of the award show nots now maybe a
c M s are a little more like commercial friendly
(48:14):
kind of vibes, especially Grammys. Dan and Shay The fact
that they get nominated for Grammys and have radio success
is like, that's that's a unicorn, you know, like usually
one comes without the other. It's just almost you have
to have such unparalleled success to even be in the
Grammy slash Commerce. Yeah, and and they've done it. It's
super crazy. Yeah, Yeah, it's super cool. Are you because
(48:36):
when I think of you, I obviously know all the
songs that you've written for Dan and Shade because of
my personal relationship with that group. Are you in a
lot of people's minds that got the Dan and Shade team? Guy?
It's a great question, man. I like me and my
publisher talked about that stuff. We kind of like early
(48:57):
on because I also do tracks, and I was like,
I don't want to be another track boy, you know,
I want to be I want people to know that
I'm a songwriter all these things. I think we were
just very intentional early on about going we're gonna get
in a lot of different camps. We're gonna really like
try to spread this out. And I think I kind
of pride myself in being able to be a chameleon
(49:20):
and like whatever room we're in, you know. So I
think I'm sure there are like people who are surprised
when they come in there, Like I thought you were
just like the pop country dude, and we write like
a super country song or something like. I think that
has definitely been a fear of like, I don't want
to just be the pop country doude, especially a time
where pop country is not cool right now. You know
it seemingly it's like I think in the writer's room,
(49:41):
you know, just having those relationships to their writers. I
don't think that's necessarily I could be wrong, though, that
could be the eternal optimist of me. You know, it's
funny about pop country, and you're right, but it's still
circles all the way back. We're talking about a minute
ago or forty five minutes ago. Is that okay? Pop country?
Let's say it's not cool because it is not cool. However,
(50:02):
just like I said, there's no sensible it's still the
most consumed. It's still but nobody's coming up going. I'm
a huge fan. It's like the weekend. Do you ever
meet somebody it's like on the biggest weekend fan. No,
but you know, strange, like crazy the freaking weekend. I
looked up Khaleg the other day, like I don't feel
(50:23):
like I've heard I mean, you have heard his songs recently,
but like he has like fifty million monthly listeners on Spotify.
There are a lot of people who love it, but
there's just no need for them to scream because they
don't feel like anybody is doing them a disservice. Yeah, definitely,
and like they already pop country was already on top.
It's like you don't have to root, you know, like
we don't have to know that you're a fan of Alabama,
(50:44):
you know what I mean. Not this year obviously, but
like if you've already done it, you're like, yeah, you've
already done it. It's like we talked about with kids.
When you have your first kid, people are like, oh
my gosh, we're so excited you've announced you having your
second kid. They're like, okay, cool, you already had a kid,
you know, like that's just gonna happen. Did you get
to meet Dolly? No? I didn't. Josh Kerr did he?
(51:06):
Like I think he got a tracker on the thing.
But no, it would have been sweet, it would have
been well, so it could happen. It's amazing to me
that she wanted Grammy and didn't even show. I mean,
that's that's a power move. You know, you're getting no
more powerful than Dolly. It's it's phenomenal. You're going to go, Yeah,
we'll go. Have you You've been every time you've been nominated, Yeah,
it is. It a pretty cool trip though, dude, it's
(51:28):
one of the coolest trips. The last one was weird
because it was and Kobe died that day. That day,
it was literally we were in the elevator like going
down to the main spot and it was like, Kobe
Bryant has died in a helicopter crash outside of l A.
We're like, what, so we won a Grammy and the
(51:48):
pretail by this thing. Walk outside there's just thousands of
people out there, just surreal, like, but man, LA is
such a magical place. I love going out there, and yeah,
it's just such a fun thing. How do you not
write the same song. You've gotta find ways to be
inspired by new things. That's like what I was saying
earlier of like I can't just write super country songs,
(52:10):
or I can't just write pop country, or I can't
just write pop or Christian. It's like you have to
have a well balanced diet and that like inspiration is
just like everything, you know, Like when you're trying to
get a hit, if you're not inspired by the idea
you're writing in the room, or if it doesn't make
you just go like, oh my gosh, like, let's just
chase it till we do find that. So I mean
(52:33):
that that's the easiest way, like finding new sounds, writing
on different guitars, I mean, but also still borrowing, you know,
like you don't throw the baby out with the bath war,
like borrow the things that did work and transplant those
into the new songs. You know, Like do you ever
find yourself inadvertently pardon the word, stealing a song from yourself? Oh,
(52:53):
definitely yeah, And you have to go, oh, well, yeah
that's me, but I can't oops. I mean yeah, typically
the first person in the room to be like, even
if I don't know what it is, I'm like, doesn't
this sound like something? And shouldn't we be careful? You know? Um?
But yeah, that's just natural. I mean, we only have
so many things in our brain that our brain naturally
goes to. You are you constantly thinking of song concepts,
(53:17):
titles and or melodies? Always trying to think of concepts?
I mean, to me, that is the basis of all music,
but specifically country music, Like that's the inspiration point. You know,
what is the concept that you knew immediately, kept savored,
(53:37):
treasured and it turned out to be something. Dude, this
is gonna sound like I'm making this up or like
rose colored glasses? What are I had the idea for
tequila had when I taste tequila, and there's only been
a couple of those moments that I was like, this
is definitely a song. I had that and then um,
in the same time period, I had an idea called
(53:59):
what Keeps You Night that was on the Dana Sha record.
It was like the only outside song on that, Like
you just get a feeling because it feels like I
can already see the song, like I can see the
whole thing from looking at the title. Um, it wasn't
my title, but ten thousand hours was like that for me.
Dan said that title. We did like a writing trip
before the Grammys in l A, I guess in twenty
(54:20):
nineteen whatever year was, and he had thrown out that
title in the room and nobody bit on it, and
I was like, dude, I am obsessed with that title.
I forgot about it. Like three months later, We're right
with Jesse Joe Dillon, and I was like I've got
this title ten thousand hours, and I was like, do
we have to write that? Like that is? That is
a smash? I don't even know however, way we do that,
like we will make sure it's right, you know. Like,
(54:43):
but there's only a few of those kind of songs.
And I feel like, why do you think certain songs
resonate within yours with within oneself more than others, because
you're thinking of all of them, Like, what do you
think it is? I mean, it could be so many.
(55:04):
I think it's nuanced. We haven't said that in a while.
I think it's time bring back. What's so tricky is
like something that really inspires you may not inspire me
or vice versa um or you I might just not
catch the vision for it or whatever. But like, I mean,
it's probably because it's reminding us of something else we
love and we don't quite know it. I mean, most likely,
(55:25):
it's like when you see someone on the street and
you're like, wow, that person is really attractive. It's like, oh,
it's because it looks like my cousin. Well, that's a
weird life you live. I was trying to pull on
the and then you went there, good, good, good. You
get in a room with a new songwriter somebody like
this person is really great. You should spend some time
with them, and they say, Jordan's and what do I
(55:46):
need to know about this town? And this like help
me out because and it's somebody that you see is
raw but really good. What do you tell that person
because I'm sure this has happened to you many times? Um,
what's crazy is you kind of already can tell. And
I always felt this way, like coming up like people back, oh, dude,
you're gonna have hits, no problem, And I'm back, well
(56:07):
that why don't you tell the artist I'm writing with
that Like I can't get a you know, hit to
say in my life. But like there's a certain like
personality type and talent level that like even if they're
not quite there, you can be like that person is
going to do it. So it's not it's like less
even like giving specific advice. I think about. There's this girl,
Mackenzie Carpenter. She's a new um artist in town. Everybody's
(56:30):
been talking about her. She's amazing, is it? And I
wrote her the first time and I was just like, yep,
she's got it, like she has she has the personality
to do it. She's got the look, she's got like
all the things amazing writer. And I was like, we
don't really have to tell you anything, just like keep
your head down and keep writing songs. Don't be um,
don't be upset if you're not getting in the rooms
that you want to get in. Um. Things that I
(56:52):
have to still tell myself is like, sometimes you're still
just not ready. That doesn't mean you're not talented enough,
but it might mean you don't have the skill set
that you need. It's like the amount of times I've
written a song and the next week I'm writing with
a new artist and I'm like, or with an artist
that I've been trying to get in with. It's like
I just learned this little trick that now is going
to be in this song, and I'm like, oh, what
(57:12):
if I hadn't written this song today to get me
prepared for that. Like that's a close example, but like
just be okay, like waiting it out a little bit,
if that's what it means, Like you want people to
be excited to get in the room with you, But
that's advice you said. You don't have any advice to
tell them and then you said I don't have anything.
But here's what I would say. You did say it.
That's great advice. I lied, Yeah, I definitely lied. What's better?
(57:33):
It's okay to lie here what's better songs? So it
is okay to lie? Absolutely? Okay, good, Yeah, most of
this has been alive. By the way, I'm not even here.
This is a recording of me Mike's pushing a button
ball wall a wall. It is compressive. Yeah, it's difficult
for me to talk to a wall though. That is
that is It's difficult, but it's impressively technology. Um, what
was the question better songs? Yeah? So um started with
(57:54):
a buddy of mine wh's actually my lawyer, Sam's Chase Neely,
and I just like, I love talking about songwriting. I
could just talk about songwriting forever. And um, my buddy
Chase has actually done this kind of program with a
few other people, like authors and stuff and kind of
like the master class kind of feel, but this is
(58:15):
geared towards new writers. Um, just like getting your footing
and like just going deep into like actual things things
that like you wouldn't have to really tell a new
writer who's already signed. It's like going past the point
of what you think you need to explain and explaining
that stuff like here's rhyme schemes. Here are the simple
rhyme schemes. You know, kind of starting in that that world. Um,
(58:39):
but I'm just like passionate about songwriting. I love songwriting
that much. They're like, we're just gonna throw a bunch
of you and you can just talk and talk about songwriting.
And I was like that sounds great. So yeah, we've
been doing it for it's about a year now. We
just kind of started this subscription part of it. But
I got to interview a bunch of my good friends
and stuff. Just recently into like a well week long
(59:00):
virtual semit thing. I have to do like podcast kind
of thing and talk to all these people about song Right.
It's just so fun for me. I love it. And
that's a Better Songs dot com bet com. What's that
gonna run me? Uh? For you make a deal? You
can also follow on Instagram at Better Underscore Songs Underscore.
This is a really softball question, but a real answer.
(59:25):
What is your favorite song that you've written that you're
most proud of and it it could be forced for
a success, It could be for something that took you
a year to actually finish, or it could be a
message I don't I don't really care, and I'm actually
vamping to give you time to think right now. Yeah,
it's so, it's it's such a broad question. But what's
your favorite song that you've written. It's difficult because favorite,
(59:48):
you know, like, I'm just attaching all these feelings to
these things and the song talk about a softball answer.
The song that really I do feel that way about
is Tequila. Like it's to me like the best representation
of what I love to do, you know like, and
just like simple and make somebody feel something, you know like,
(01:00:11):
and the fact that it was my first thing I
feel like people that was always like a fear of
mine in a weird way. I didn't think about it
a lot, but like I had buddies who had hits
early on, and they just like weren't proud of them
like we do like writer's rounds, and like, I'm not
gonna play that song. I'm like, dude, it's a hit.
People love this and they're like, I just don't. I
don't think it represents me that well. And I was like, oh,
(01:00:32):
I hope I don't have one of those, you know,
So it's so fun like having I feel that way
about I mean, all the hits, but like specifically Tequila.
It's like it's just so sick being like, I'm so
proud of how this song turned out. Dan crushed the production,
Like the piano thing is my piano that I created
in logic, like when I first started doing tracks, and
(01:00:53):
now know that like that was the reason I created
that piano was to be in Tequila, you know, like
just wild. You know that kind says I'm super proud
of that song. I think I always will be too,
I mean realistically, And this is not the eternal optimist
to me because even as I'm saying, I don't believe it,
but it's like when I die, it'll probably be like
Jordan Reynolds, songwriter of Tequila, you know, like that realistically
(01:01:15):
will probably be it. I don't believe that because I
can't exist that way. But um yeah, which song was
the most tedious to finish of your hits? That we
would know? That is a great question. Honestly, probably speechless
because we were so into the records. He was already done,
the album was done, like he was about ready to
(01:01:36):
turn it in. Dan texting me like nine pm on
Thursday night was like, hey, I got this last idea.
I just remember being very like we combed through that
stuff so hard, like just to make sure because we're like,
I mean, this is our last shot. If if this
is not going to beat anything on the record, this
song disappears, so like, let's make sure this is it.
I mean, it's funny because I try to not think
(01:01:58):
of it as work. You know, it's hard to remember.
And but we've been doing a lot more rights recently
where we break it up into two days and we
like let it be tedious, you know, like in a
good way, so you don't force all right, guys, it's
three o'clock. We we gotta finish it. Yeah, you just
purposefully you go, we're not going to finish it today. Yeah,
Oh that's there. Yeah. I like that. There's there's been
(01:02:19):
a little too much empasis on success being finishing a
song in a day. The efficient part of me doesn't
like it, but I like it the creative side of
me because I'm running dual dual sides here, like I'm
running business, but I'm also like I have be super creative.
The creative side of Me's like, oh, I'm not supposed
to finish to days. I just I can relax and
get to that place where I'm my most creative, Like
that's great. Oh yeah, and I'm a three on the Instagram,
(01:02:41):
which is the achiever, which means I like to finish
things like and so it's a good exercise for me
to go. It's okay to take a break and step
away and go let's hear with fresh ears, Like does
that really hit? Like we think it's hitting, you know,
like how can this be elevated? How can that second
verse even better than when we think it is? Just
(01:03:02):
from listening again, you know, getting away from it. What
do you want to say now about Dan and Shade
and music? You've've written some stuff and yeah, man, I'm
I'm really excited for this new phase for them. I think, like,
you know, as things have got more country, Like if
there is anyone who just is a genius when it
comes to figuring out music industry stuff is Dance Mars,
(01:03:24):
Like he's he's known it and no he's not perfect,
nobody's perfect, but like he has such a like gauge
on what's happening, Like I think the next album is
gonna be so sick. He's been playing me stuff and Okay,
I'm glad you said it because I wasn't saything about record.
But yeah, cool, yeah, you're you're in the mix. Then good. Yeah,
I wasn't gonna say that, or I was gonna then say,
(01:03:46):
I'm like, I don't know. I didn't talked to Dan
in weeks. We were at a charity event together and
he was like, hey, we'll record, you know, just so yeah, great,
good things are happening. I think it's gonna be really good.
And you know, I mean, it's so funny you thinking
about Danna say, like we think of them as pop country.
You can listen to the Dan Chase self to out
elements like it's not really that poppy. It's still full
band and you know, like it's just not that big
(01:04:07):
of a departure. But the songs are great and I
think they're fired up. Say sounds better than he's ever
sounded in his life, which is even difficult to believe
that he could sound better than he does. But are
you fired up? Are you excited? Oh? Yeah, yeah, I'm sticked.
I don't want you to give an answer here, don't
be specific, but you ever get a song back to
your written and you're like, oh, that's what they did
with it, not even them, but anybody. Oh yeah, I
(01:04:28):
oh yeah, man, I feel it's it's few and far between, thankfully. Um.
That's part of the reason I got into doing tracks
and stuff was to be able to have a little
bit of influence in that world. But like I would say,
by and large, like I trust the Nashville producers, and
if like we also have the report with now that
like I think I could, they might ask like hey,
(01:04:49):
like where they're gonna ask for tracks, they're gonna do
something that we're I'll still have some influence. I'm not
typically worried. There have been a few surprises. Are you
working on anything solo? Uh? I mean I'm always kind
of like dabbling for fun. It's not like the thing
I prioritize. Really, I've been trying to write solo and
think like what would I just do? You know, But
(01:05:12):
in the back of my mind, I'm always like, who
could this be for? You know, it's just gotten too
easy righting other people. So now you're you're like leveling up,
like go on level four, Donkey Kong. That's where it's
jumping right by myself with one year Yeah yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah. Well listen, man, i I'm just I'm a
big fan. I guess I'm a big fan of you
personally because I just have so many people that are
in both of our I don't have a very big circle.
(01:05:34):
I stay pretty private. But when you have people that
you really value and they also value somebody, you then
value them through association and just appreciate and just know that.
That's like a good dude. And so you've always kind
of been that, even though we've not spent any time together.
So I was excited that you were coming over today.
And can I tell you the first time I gained
(01:05:54):
some serious respect for Bobby Bens By the way, I
would love to hear this story. I'm always weird about
it because I want to hear it, but I don't
want to, but I don't. Can actually the awkward? But no,
this is good. Have we ever met? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
so this is this is that story. Okay, this is
a great story. Okay, read and it can be tell
the whole truth. Even make me look good. This makes
you look great, honestly, what makes you look really good?
(01:06:16):
So week of I mean, this is this beenen when
that self titled album came out and Danna say this
is gonna I don't know if I'm allowed to say
this is my might break the rules here, see behind
the curtain here. But so Dana were doing a week
of album released with Bobby Bones albums coming out on
whatever Friday. Every day they're coming in and playing so
(01:06:38):
Dan and she asked me, will you just come play
keys with us? Were really like cus Well, We're like, hey,
they're actually gonna film along one day. That's the part
that no one's supposed to. It's okay, infod listen to this.
I let him know we recorded stuff in debate. Appreciate that. Yeah,
you can cut it off. So, um, we show up
with four outfits. You know, it's four days. So we
(01:06:58):
do the first one. I'm wearing like all black, and
we finished and we're like, all right, let's get ready
for the next one. And I was like, all right,
what should I wear? And you kind of chimed in.
You're like, man, are you just gonna be You're sitting
in the same spot and I was like yeah. He's
like You're like, dude, don't worry about it. Just you
can keep the same thing on. I was like, are
you sure, Like, like, dude, yeah, it doesn't matter. It's
all good, you know, just like totally chill. And I
(01:07:19):
was like, all right, cool, So Danna sha change. We
get set up. We rolled the second one. We're going
it's the next day. You know. It's like, hey, everybody,
you know, Bobby Bones here whatever. We got Danna Shay
and again, and they're like, yeah, we're gonna play this
song speech less. We actually wrote with our buddy here
and you go hold on his saying, this guy back here.
He was here yesterday, right, And they're like, yeah, yeah,
he's here. He's like he's wearing the same outfit that
(01:07:42):
he wore yesterday. And I was like, I didn't even
have a mic. I couldn't respond. And I was like,
you dog, I was like instant respect. I was like, man,
that that is that's funny. That's the next level comedy.
That's funny. I mean, I'm laughing at that. I don't
remember out that was funny. Bro. It was like, all right,
I think I could hang with this from on enjoyment.
(01:08:05):
That's classic. It was awesome. I've told that a lot
of people's funny. I don't think I knew what to expect,
Like I just I was just like stoked to be there,
and so I think the fact that that happened, I
was like, Man, he's a good dude. That's a good dude.
He's got it, he's got it. Oh that doesn't like
me saving a kid from a well or something. That
turns out to me, Yeah, that's that is great. Well,
(01:08:27):
you guys follow Jordan Jordan K Reynolds. I'm a big fan.
You are remarkably warm to be around. Like from from
the minute I walked in and we sat down. I've
done this enough times in one form or the other.
Either I click with someone, I can click with someone,
or I don't and we get through it. But like
(01:08:49):
you're easily You're just a guy that I think you
just like you. Thanks, super talented, you don't have to
be likable. Um, I've really enjoyed the last hour we've been.
We've just over and I've really enjoyed it. So thanks
you were that last time you're here, though, So it's
kind of weird. I'll probably again wouldn't be funny. I
every time I see him now, he's just in the
same clothes as the kind of make it a point.
(01:09:09):
I'll keep it with me just in case. Around into you.
What are you doing the rest of the day. Uh, well,
we're about to head to Texas. So my sister in
law's wedding. Okay, let's say congrats to Caitlin. You know, well, congratulate.
By the time you hear this, you'll be married. Caitlin. Congratulations.
I can't believe you're getting married. I knew all these years,
I said, I said to Jordan, I said, when Caitlin
(01:09:30):
finds him. And when I mean him, I mean Jack Jack.
You might have even said, yeah, why I said Jack
or Jackie boy, I can't remember j j Um. I
knew it was him, Caitlin. And so congratulations. This is
gonna last a long time. And wait till you hear
the song Jordan wrote just for you. He was playing
it for me on the phone. So at the wedding
them play yeah, Jordan, thank you, buddy. You guys follow
(01:09:52):
at better underscore songs, underscore and at Jordan Kay Reynolds
and I think anything else, Mike, We're good, all right,
We're good. There is is Jordan Reynolds
Host
Bobby Bones
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