#413 - Behind The Scenes of the Music Industry (Part 1) - Bobbycast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Ladies and gentlemen, we are experiencing technical difficulties.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
This is the Bobby Cast. Welcome to this episode of
the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
It's all about, well behind the scenes of the music industry.
How does a song get on the radio, What exactly
does a producer do? What are the day to day
tasks of an artist manager, how to record, labels and
radio work together. All these questions will be answered in
this episode. We get into it now. Throughout the years,
I've talked to some of the best in business, for managers,

(00:37):
to producers, to songwriters, to journalists, to label executives, and
you're going to hear from artist managers like Kapy who
is Luke Combs's manager, record label CEO John Esposito who
just retire, but with somebody who is massive in the
industry for so many years, producer Dan Huff, the head
of IRA Country, Rod Phillips.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
I could keep.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Going on and on, but you're going to hear it
all here. This is going to be a good one,
especially if you love behind the scenes. Since I've talked
to so many people in the industry, we're breaking this
one down into two parts.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
We've been very.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
Lucky that a lot of folks that work in this
creative space and a lot of different ways have stopped
by that a kickoff Part one of Behind the Scenes
of the Music Industry. It's Luke Combs's manager, Cappy, who
has been with Luke since day one. I mean, I
would even say back before day one actually happened. Cappy
talks about that and what a typical day looks like

(01:29):
for him as a manager and then as a manager
who has started his own management company. What was it
about Luke early on because you didn't meet while you
were in Nashville.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Was it like a club? I'm just trying to recall.

Speaker 4 (01:43):
So the way it all happened is a guy named
Bradley Jordan, who owns Speachtree Entertainment called me. I was
living in California and I was working for six Man,
which is the company before I started with Luke, and
he said, you've always want to be a manager. You're
forty two years old. You're throwing your life away. If
you don't do this, you're going to regret it. And
he's my best friend and he can say those things
to me, hit me right between the eyes, and I
was like, you're right.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
So I decided to move back.

Speaker 4 (02:04):
I was going to work with another I looked at
a couple other artists, none of that worked out, and
he calls me and goes, I found your guy. His
name is Luke Colmbs. We're going to do a show
and you're going to see him play. I said, fantastic.
He goes, you have to buy the show because he
doesn't have a show on the books. He has no shows,
so you're gonna have to buy the show, rent the venue,
and throw the event.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
So we did buy the show. Explain that.

Speaker 4 (02:23):
So we had to go and pay Luke to come
and play the show because he didn't have any shows
on the books.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
So this is so early in his career.

Speaker 4 (02:30):
He only had one show he had done, which was
with Bradley at in Rome, Georgia at the brew House.
So we bought the show, paid Luke seven hundred fifty dollars,
paid seven und fifty dollars to the venue, and I
remember being there's only gonna be.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Three people at the show, Bradley, Luke, and me.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
And during sound check, Luke started playing a song and
he's like, hey man, can I text you these lyrics
and you print it out for me.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
I'm like sure. It was Hurricane.

Speaker 4 (02:55):
First time he ever played it live in front of
a crowd. The only place where it lived was on
Facebook on video. So anyway, he's singing in sound check,
I'm like, man, this guy's really good, Like this guy
can really sing in the band. And so I walk outside,
you know, it's like nine o'clock and arobably open the doors.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
You know, it's a college.

Speaker 4 (03:12):
Town, and there's people in line, no pre sold tickets,
and I'm like, wow, eighty three people were there for
this first show and he had nothing going on, and
they were singing every word to every song on his
first two EPs that had come out, which is six songs,
She Got the Best of Me and the way She
Rides and kind of get an Outlaw, And then he

(03:33):
played Hurricane and they were singing the words of Hurricane.
It had only been on a Facebook video. And for
all the years that I worked with, I was working
with you know, John Mayer and Kiss and Kid Rock
and all these Paramore three eleven, these super passionate fan bases,
and they would sing every word to every single song,
even the deep cuts. They were doing the same thing,
And I was like, he has it. He has not

(03:55):
only does he have the chops? Because he has that
and he has the songs, but he's got fans that
are already in love with him. And as soon as
you see that, and that's what I knew, I was like,
this is it? Like he has it, I can take this.
And I told him, I was like, Luke, in five years,
well have you playing theaters on a tour bus and
you'll be making seven figures. And I can guarantee that

(04:15):
in five years because I saw so many bands do
it and with just with fans. And he's like, Okay,
if you can do that, you know you're my manager.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Let's go.

Speaker 4 (04:22):
And that's kind of how the whole thing started in
the beginning. And we did that. You know, we really
stayed focused on on the fan base, and that's all
we really focus on is how do we affect the bootleggers,
which is which is what we call his fan base,
and it works fans first. That's all we really focus
on when it comes down to it is how does
it affect the fan?

Speaker 3 (04:42):
So you're living in California, you go to Georgia to
do this, were you already going all right, I got
to get to Nashville or was it after that night
with Luke.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
After with Luke, and he said, if you want to
be my manager, you have to live in Nashville.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Was he living in Nashville at the time.

Speaker 5 (04:55):
He was?

Speaker 2 (04:56):
He was, he was already here.

Speaker 6 (04:57):
How quick did you move? It took me the six weeks?
In six weeks, so you go, I got this new artist. Listen,
let's be honest. If you're just managing an artist, you're
not making any money. I'll just talk from the experience
with my manager. Shuttle awards in your mouth. My management
makes fifteen percent of what I make. Sure if I'm
making zero, fifteen percent of what I make is zero zero.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
So that's you moving to Nashville. Did you have some
money saved up? I had a little bit of saved up.

Speaker 4 (05:26):
And when Luke and I sat down, I remember the
first time, sitting in his apartment around you know, the
glass table with the four wrought iron chairs in his apartment.
I said, man, what's the most important thing for you?
And He's like, man, I really hate driving to these rights.
I'm in in this old Dodge Neon that I had,
and I don't want to. In fact, I park and
walk two blocks in the heat and I was like, look,

(05:47):
I won't take a dime from you until you're making
money and we can buy you a car. So what
we would do is after every run, any extra money
we had left over, we would put into a bank
bag that lived inside a coffee can that lived in
his kitchen, and that's what we stacked cash in there.
And then the rest of the time, I was just
using my money to live off of or fund whatever

(06:09):
we needed if we needed extra hotel rooms or we
didn't make enough money that night for gas in the van.
I mean, I just came out of my pocket and
did it. And because I wasn't going to give up.
And I think that's the difference of becoming a manager
at forty two years old and already having in living
a life. I was like, I'm all in on this
guy because I'm okay to fail, because I'm ready to
make this happen.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
So I'm going to go all in.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
And I eventually it was April, so this I was September.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
It was April.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
I was sleeping on my couch because I was renting
out my room in this house that I had in
East Nashville that I was living in. That was it
was a hovel, but it's all I could afford. I
had somebody living there to help me pay for my bill.
So I was sleeping on my couch. I was now
forty three years old, sleeping on my couch, driving the van.
I had sold everything that I could sell to have money.

(06:55):
And what I would do every night as I would
go to the green room and I would take a
merch bin in there, but it wasn't a merch pin.
It was my food stash because I would take the
food out of the green room, the funions and the
bottled water and whatever we had and put it in
there so I had food to eat because I couldn't
afford anything, because I had to scrape everything together so
we could make it. And I remember getting there and

(07:16):
we had enough money to buy Luke the car. And
I never once was like he never knew any of this,
Like I didn't let him know where it stood.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Financially. I was laid on my rent.

Speaker 4 (07:25):
I was late, I was all my credit cards were
passed due. It was I was like I was sitting
there one night, I was like I'm like almost rocking
back and forth. You know, I was like this, he
has it. I know he does I know we're gonna
do this, and we bought him the car. It was
a Ford Fusion. The very next week we got an
offer to play a show in the Outer Banks at

(07:46):
an ATV park for ten thousand dollars.

Speaker 7 (07:48):
I was like wow.

Speaker 4 (07:49):
And then the week after that we got a private
for ten thousand dollars. So instantaneously I made three thousand
dollars and I was like, this is gonna.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Work because you got the truck.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
So now, which is by the way, let me just
stop you before we go forward and say for you
to go. I'm not taking any money until you're able
to not only make a little money for yourself, but
to pay off this first part of what can make
your dream. I haven't heard of such thing unless it's
by someone who has a lot of money and is

(08:19):
pretty rich to do that. Like I've heard of some
friends of mine that are athlete managers or business They
can do that and they can go, hey, listen, I
got four other clients here. There are millionaires. I won't
take a dime until you but you weren't doing that.
You have anything. Now, you were taking nothing while you
had nothing. You believe that much.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
I've never stopped believing. And I know you believe now,
and I know you believed early.

Speaker 3 (08:40):
But I've had things in my career where I'm like,
I'm so for sure this and my head's down and
I'm not stopping. And I never stopped. However, there were
times where it got to be so questionable. I was like,
am I delusional that I believe so much? Because I
do believe in certain things. I've done so much, But
there are times where there's so much pushback where I
start to question if I'm crazy.

Speaker 4 (09:00):
Yeah, did you have a question if you were crazy?
My parents questioned me. I think very early on, they're like,
are you sure.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
You want to do this?

Speaker 4 (09:05):
Like, are you sure you want to give up a
fifteen year career? I know my brother was the same way,
are you sure you want to do this?

Speaker 5 (09:10):
Now?

Speaker 4 (09:10):
They see it, but I mean, I think it's different
when you're standing there in a room and you're watching
people pour their hearts out and what they're doing and
in the connection that Luke had with the fans, and
I saw it so early on. I was like, this
is real, Like you cannot create this no matter what.
And I was like, it's going to happen it's just
gonna I just have to weather the storm. And I

(09:31):
don't know whatever the higher power is, it's out there
said I'm going to test you and if you don't break,
I'm going.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
To reward you. And I never broke. So when did
the record labels?

Speaker 7 (09:42):
And then?

Speaker 3 (09:43):
What was was that just fury? It was everybody after
Luke at once? Or was it one and then one
sees it's cool and comes after it?

Speaker 2 (09:50):
How did that go?

Speaker 5 (09:50):
Well?

Speaker 4 (09:51):
You know, we signed with the Riverhouse, which is Lynn
Oliver and Lynn and I are friends from years and
years and years ago, and I took her to the
music and she heard it and she loved it. So
she signed Luke to an independent deal and then she
was distributing it through thirty Tigers. And then as it
started to pick up momentum and it got some some
radio play, and then everything started to kind of snowball

(10:14):
from there because they started recognizing it and it started
to stream and people started to like perk up a
little bit because we didn't play any shows in town.
You know, the big first show that we did in
town was Whiskey Jam Anniversary show. And then after that show,
because of the pickup, we had from the early independent
stuff that we had done with the radio and everything

(10:35):
like that, and people paying attention.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Then that happened. There was a bunch of A and
R people there.

Speaker 4 (10:40):
Actually, bou Martinovitch was there from from Sony and actually
sent a video that night of basing a hurricane to
the Sony team. They decided to have conversations. We had
conversations with three labels in the very beginning, and it
became very very quick and hot and fast, and we
opted to go with Sony, and it was it was
a great opportunit.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
Were you leveraging because any time anybody bidding on me, we've.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Always leveraged, right, you know what? And at that point
we really didn't. And that's not one of the things
that I do very well.

Speaker 4 (11:08):
I'm not a big leverager in that and in the
sense that I'm very transparent. In fact, I'm working on
a deal right now for one of my other artists
that I just sent like they're like, well, how much
do you have invested in this artist already? And I
was like twenty nine hundred and six dollars and they're like,
oh wow. I was like, yeah, hear me, see the spreadsheet.
Instead of like bumping it or patting it or anything
like that.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
I just don't. I'm I'm not a giant leverage person.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
But but for example, yes, there's a little deal happening
with me a few years ago. Two years ago, one
of the major streaming companies said we'll give you one dollar. Well,
then I go over to iharn go, well, they're offered
me one dollar, right, Like, this is leverage too, so
can you be one dollar?

Speaker 2 (11:48):
And they're like, well, yes we can.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
Well then it's that we'll just call it another way
that yeah, do that.

Speaker 4 (11:54):
A little bit of that happened, but I think, you know,
really the reason we went was Sony, and the biggest
thing that that really made that over the other two
was the relationship that they wanted to have with Luke
and the relationship they wanted to have with us. So like,
I think that was what really wanted out. But no,
it didn't get into a giant bidding war at all,
it really didn't. They Sony came very honest and straightforward

(12:16):
from the from the beginning. And you know, we had
already had hurricane out there, so they also they also
had to be ready just to pick up and go
with what we had already done and flip it and
take it from there, and they did.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
Before you, you know, had your own company and ten
how many artists you have under you know, I have.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Twelve artists and fourteen employees.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
So before that version of you, whenever you're just managing
and you're you're you're really catching on as a manager.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
What is a day like as a manager of an artist?
Like a Wednesday? I can give you a like today.

Speaker 4 (12:46):
You know, there's a breakfast meeting first with somebody here
in town eight am.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
Like somebody like you're thinking about signing or somebody that you're.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
No, I'll go through my full day. Alarm goes off
at four am.

Speaker 4 (12:56):
Okay, so I'm up at four, make coffee, let the
dogs out, spend thirty minutes with nothing on and just
enjoying a cup of coffee.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
I mean closed, and I'll close on well a pair
of underwear. Pair of underwear.

Speaker 4 (13:06):
Nobody wants to see that mood. So I enjoy a
nice cup of coffee. Like I said, I live on
the Cumberland River, so I get to enjoy that in
the morning, watch the sun come up, and then I
start reading Twitter for an hour and I type in
all my artist's name, and I read the last twenty
four hours of Twitter wow, because that gives me a
pulse of what's.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Kind of going on. And then I started answering emails.

Speaker 4 (13:27):
And I get to a good point. So I have
to be below ten emails every day when I finish
the day or and when I go to start the day,
with all the emails that come in overnight, I file
them down and I start my day. Then I went
and met with another manager here in town this morning.
So I try to meet with a manager that I've
never met before every month because that's it helps me
increase my network. And nobody would meet with me early on,
so it's kind of like my give back. I want

(13:50):
to give back to the industry. So I meet with
a manager that I don't know. I met with a
great guy today. We had a great conversation. I went
straight from there, did a phone call right to my office,
started working there. I've had four conference calls today, and
then I'm coming over here and then I'm leaving here.
I'll jump back on my phone and then I'll be
on it until probably about seven o'clock tonight.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
What are these conference calls about?

Speaker 7 (14:12):
Though?

Speaker 2 (14:12):
Not specifically, but is it sure?

Speaker 4 (14:13):
Like so, we had a call today about Luke's routing
like to a routing to a routing that with our agent,
Aaron Tannebaum. And then I'll have I had a call
with a promoter, I had a call with my team,
I had a call with two of my managers internally.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
So and then that doesn't include just the random.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
Calls that just happened that I'm like, you know, you know,
I had to change the auto respondor on my on
my iPhone to say I'm on a call, call you
right back, or I'm in a meeting police text like
the ones, and then I have to go back through
those and return all those phone calls. At the end
of the day, I also go to my miss call
page and just start calling everybody back on there. And
that's essentially what it is. No day, excuse me, no

(14:52):
day ever goes as planned. Tom can tell you that
no day ever goes as plan I have. I've never
had a day go perfectly as planned. And I'm usually
canceling one, if not two things a day.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
Every day. Something every dnsel because of a fire, because
of a fire of some.

Speaker 4 (15:08):
Sort, Because even if it's not an artist fire, it
might be an employee fire. And you know, my employees
are one of the most important things to me, and
if they have a problem, I need to be there
for them too.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
Whenever you and Luke were traveling together, because Luke is
what thirty.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Now thirty one and what are you? Forty five? Forty
thirty eight?

Speaker 8 (15:26):
Okay, did people ever think you were like his older brother?
They thought his dad? And this is what Combs does.
So Combs goes, he goes, that's not my dad. He goes,
that's my granddad. And I'm like, why do you do that?
And I almost made a shirt.

Speaker 4 (15:38):
That said not Luke's dad, that's funny. Yeah, not Luke's dad,
but everybody. So people would walk up to me and
they'd be like, man, isn't it fun to watch your
son sing these songs?

Speaker 2 (15:46):
I'm like, man, do I look like his dad?

Speaker 4 (15:48):
Like biologically, yes, I'm eighteen years older than that's funny,
but no I'm not. But yes, a lot of people
think that I'm his dad.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
The first time you heard him play Hurricane, yes, did
you get it?

Speaker 2 (15:58):
I did? I got it? I was like, this is it.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
I would watch those early videos of him playing at
bars and playing Hurricane and seeing the whole.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Bar scream it back to him. This song almost got
me fired. Why the video shoot?

Speaker 4 (16:12):
The video shoot at Wild Noahs, at Coyote Joe's and Charlotte.
We were doing the video shoot and the video company
gave me a megaphone and they're like, all right, why
don't you tell Luke what to do?

Speaker 2 (16:23):
And I was like, yeah, totally, give me the megaphone.

Speaker 5 (16:24):
So I'm doing.

Speaker 4 (16:25):
I'm like, all right, take seventeen of Hurricane and he
had to, like, you know, he has to do it.
He goes take the microphone away and get out of
the building because I'm about to fire you because because
he was so because he's never done a video before,
and like you're having the mouth of the worst of
your song. It's seventeen and again you've dealt with this before.
And he threw me out of the building and I

(16:46):
had to go outside and he let me back in
and he's like, he's like, look, dude, I just had
a moment.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
You know.

Speaker 4 (16:54):
It wasn't like it it wasn't like a sorry. It
was like you were kind of being annoying. I just
need to let you know that. I was like, yeah,
so from that point on we understand how videos are shot.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
And I don't say.

Speaker 9 (17:02):
A word, hank Ty, the Bobby Cast will be right back.
Welcome back to the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
John Esposito, also known as Espo, was the CEO of
Warner Music Nashville for thirteen years. He signed artists like
Dan and Shay, Ashley McBride, Zach Bryan and here he
is talking about why he signed them. Whenever you talk
about magic, and I say, what magic comes to mind?

Speaker 2 (17:35):
And that's such a vague question.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
But the three minutes and thirty seconds can be any
song that you as a head believed in quickly and
said that's it. Because again, you're a player. I want
people to know this too. When you love music, it's
not just listening like you are a musical in every way.
You're notorious. People come and play with you in your office,
like after the CMA. Sorry, what's the magic for you
that when you think that song was magic?

Speaker 5 (17:57):
Immediately?

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Well, I can tell you a few popped in my
head when you say that. And then I want to
go back to a little Blake Shelton story. But I
remember when Blake was second guessing himself, he already had
twenty five, twenty six number one records, and thinking, well, maybe.

Speaker 5 (18:15):
They don't care about me anymore.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
And I went to a dinner with him and Gwen,
and you know, we both were telling him, you know,
get over that. You know people want you, and he said, well,
I got something booked for the studio on Monday.

Speaker 5 (18:33):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
I just don't know you anyhow. And on Thursday Walks
a song called God's Country. As soon as we heard
the demo, Blake sends me the most hilarious texts in
the world, many of which I couldn't let anybody ever see.
But it was you know, I actually wish I could

(18:56):
find that one right now and share it with you,
but it would be something along the line of ESPO.
I think I just found money, real money. And I said, okay, Scott,
send me this song. And I hear the demo of
God's Country. There's an artist on Thursday morning, not sure

(19:16):
he wants to go to the studio, who puts out
the biggest song of his career that it's recorded three
days later, and you knew the magic of that song,
and you knew that he was going to deliver it.
I felt the same thing a lot when I heard
a demo which my buddy Dan Smiers is still pissed
off at me about of from the ground Up, and

(19:38):
it was with a little drum machine and an acoustic guitar,
and you just knew that song was going to change
people's lives. It such a resonance, it's such an amazing
message in it. I started playing it for a few
people who came in the office, and the word got
back to him and he says, don't you ever do
that again. You know, he's one of these the finish

(20:00):
product only guys.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yeah, he uh, you know.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
They were smiers as are super close to us, and
Caitlin and Abbey are really great friends. And Dan is
an O C D guy like myself. Everything it's got
to be in the exact order. He's a he's a perfectionist.
And I was telling him that you guys did such
a good job yourself, your team, Dan and Shay from

(20:24):
that song, because that was a graduation for them whenever
you guys did for the ground up. Because I remember
the I still remember the visuals, and I see visuals
of everything all the time. I'm constantly inundated with new music,
new clubs, new content.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
What about this? What about this?

Speaker 3 (20:36):
I remember what you guys did and how you built
the that the like the church, that, all of it,
all the aesthetic for that song. You graduated them at
that point because you believed in that song so much.
And so as you say that, that to me was
a big point in Dan and Shea's career because they
had they did the work, and you guys believed in
it so much that you pushed it and it was
massive and it led them to the next graduation step.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
You got to be proud of those guys.

Speaker 5 (21:01):
I am.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
I'll tell you a funny story about Dan and Shay.
I was riding to a studio to meet Jay Joyce,
a producer of very much notoriety here in town, and
on the way Ben Vaughan, who runs the Warner publishing
company Warner Chapel, said, I got this new song from

(21:24):
this duo called ragtop Red. You got to listen to it.
On comes nineteen you and me. I think it's Dan
near the finished product we ended up putting out.

Speaker 5 (21:37):
I said, ragtop Red, what's that? He goes? You just
got to meet these guys.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
So the next day I had Dan and Shay in
my office, and you do these auditions and you think
they're going to last about forty five minutes. There are
some you wish rover in ten minutes, but you still
have to be courteous, right. I never want anybody they
got their final moment to get there in front of
the head of a label.

Speaker 10 (22:01):
You know.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
Well, after about ten songs, I'm looking over at Scott Hendricks,
our head of eight R an R at the time
and ultimately the producer of eighty number one records in
this format, and I'm like nodding, and He's given me
a little nod, but you know, we've never done this before.
And I'm like on my fifth nod, and I finally said,
you guys are signing to Warner today. You're not leaving

(22:23):
until you're signing to Warner.

Speaker 5 (22:25):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
I went over and I locked the door and I said,
what do you want to drink? It turned into six
hours in my office, them playing one smash after another,
and then I realized they didn't have a pot to
piss and so I called up my wife and said, Sean, Tell,
would you please cook dinner for them? Cook dinner for
them five nights in a row. Over in that bell

(22:46):
mead House and just said, I'm telling you, I'm not
letting you go until you become a Warner Brothers artist
here and you know that.

Speaker 5 (22:56):
Thankfully it worked out.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
What about Ragtop Brett, How did you convince them to lose?

Speaker 5 (22:59):
Oh yeah, I forgot that part of that.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Well, yeah, I don't. I mean not even a name,
you know. And it also has to represent them Ragtop red.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
It didn't well. So two funny pieces in this vignette.
I have a Steeler's wall in my office because I
grew up in the Pittsburgh area and Dan Smiers walks
right up to it and stares at it, and I said,
you're not from Cleveland, are you?

Speaker 5 (23:25):
No? No, I'm from Pittsburgh. I'm thinking good, I got one.
I got one here.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Hey, guys, But about that name, and without Missiga beat,
they said, oh, we hate that name.

Speaker 5 (23:35):
We dropped it.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
We're Dan and Shay, and I thought, I don't have
to have that goddamn car.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
That's funny. So that was it. We already thought that
we're just we're Dana. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
Whenever it came to the branding of those guys, that
and that cross, that whatever that is, like, that's what
I think when I think of them, that decision obviously
had to be okayed by you as well, because it's
dan An Shay. Even that little thing that is so
branded is so important. Do you remember when you guys
settled on that even, well.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
You do, you'll laugh as I say this. We love
those guys. There are certain things you just don't argue with.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
So it was them. Yeah, it's good, it's good.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
It works if it makes you feel good, you know,
and you know we It probably created a little confusion
in the early days in terms of what is it?
Is it Dan plus Yeah, you can more hit records.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
People forget yeah, exactly, and they learn it.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
They forget that they were confused, and they learn it forever.

Speaker 5 (24:40):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
I remember talking to John Peaks a little bit when
I first came to town, who was always super nice
to me. Who another who was a guy by the way,
didn't go to dinner with him, and he's not a
record executive, but he was a guy too whom gonna
pull me aside, and was it's like, yeah, you're different
like me, and it ain't gonna be.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Easy for people like you.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
And here's some stuff that I've been through and again,
I was so appreciative of that. And I never listen
to music with people because one it's awkward to just
nod your head and be.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
Like, yeah, could you always have to act like you
like it even if you don't, that's right.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
But he played me this artist and he said, you know,
we're not really doing much with her now, but we
really believe in her and there's going to be some
there's gonna be something here when we figure out exactly
how to do it, because what it is is awesome.
And he played me Ashley McBride because she's from Arkansas
like myself, and you kind of use that as a
conduit to get to playing the music. And what you

(25:37):
guys have been able to do with Ashley feels very
strategically awesomely non traditional. How you made her a star
and to see her be a superstar now is her talent,
but also you your talent, you guys' talent. To sign
Ashley McBride and to have a vision for her, I

(25:59):
imagine there was I don't know what were there A
lot of meetings like what kind of artist do we
want her to be?

Speaker 2 (26:04):
Even though she Alreday knows who she is.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
No meetings to have that discussion. I saw Ashley maybe
six years before we signed her, and there was no
doubt she was incredibly talented, but.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Not ready And she admits that too. Why not what
does that mean? Not ready? Green?

Speaker 1 (26:28):
The songs weren't captivating, the performance was you could tell,
you know that she could sing.

Speaker 5 (26:34):
She might have been over singing some of it.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
You know, you're young, You're trying to impress, and god,
I really just can't. Even though I play guitar and
I played drums and I play in bands, I haven't
had to audition in front of a bunch of whankers
from this business. So I can only imagine how people

(26:59):
can exaggerate.

Speaker 5 (27:01):
To a point where it's kind of distracting.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
But then I saw her about three months before we
signed her, and I was like, we have to do this,
and Chris Lacey, the now co president of our label
and the head of A and R, was one hundred
percent in agreement. And then everybody wanted to sign her,

(27:24):
and I got to tell you, I think part of
why she ended up with us is because she knew
we weren't going to ask her to do anything but
be herself.

Speaker 5 (27:33):
I think we have a great reputation in that regard.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
I hear horror stories of people who actually go and
mix records for artists that the artist didn't even know.

Speaker 5 (27:44):
They were doing. It's like, are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 (27:46):
I'd fire me if that ever happened, but I'll never
forget for the rest of my life. This will be
self aggrandizing comment.

Speaker 5 (27:57):
Eight.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Probably everybody he's trying to sign her and John Pet's
who I really love.

Speaker 5 (28:04):
That guy is the real deal.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
He's the smartest dude you know, and creative and willing
to go on non traditional paths with all the artists
on his roster. He calls me up, I'm in Nantucket.
He says, I've never done this before, but I want
you to agree to something, And I said, what's that.

(28:25):
He goes, Ashley only wants to be with you. Will
you just promise me you'll give us a fair deal.
She doesn't want to take another meeting with another record label.
She's found her home and she's sick of this game,
and can we just shake that. We're going to work
out terms everybody will be happy with. And I said,
I've never done that before either, But yes, I knew

(28:46):
she would be that important, you know, and I think
that one of the great things about what we've been
able to do. Part of it's probably accidental because I
didn't know about country music. Our roster is very diverse
because it's filled with people that go from Ingrid Andres,
which you wouldn't necessarily think why would you sign her

(29:09):
to a country label, right, or Dan and Shaye.

Speaker 5 (29:12):
They were pretty pops out, you know, were they are.
They can be.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Ashley so traditional and there was nothing that we had
in the twelve songs that were album one that we
thought no brainer to get played on country radio. But boy,
once people got to hear her and got to experience
it live, it was going to become a thing.

Speaker 5 (29:38):
And we have to have the patients.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Now with that comes you have to have Blake Shelton's
and Kenny Chesney's and Dan and Shay's and Brett Eldridge
and others producing millions. For me, the joy is the
success they can all have. But getting to play in
sandboxes with people like Abrienna right and know that you
can be changing lives, you know, by taking a risk

(30:02):
on somebody who skirts the edge of whatever people might
call country music. But it's important music now.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Zach Brian is with you, guys.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
Yeah, when you sign somebody that has in the last
couple of years that has grown so much because of
the virility, like TikTok, they blow up? Is that a
whole different negotiation? How did that come together? Are these
artists that blow up? Or is it different to negotiate
with them than someone who you just know is going
to be good playing a showcase somewhere?

Speaker 1 (30:30):
Well, I dare say, as a generalization which I tend
to hate, the rules of engagement have changed so very
much in a very short period of time, I would say,
and they're changing ever right now, right before us, but

(30:53):
maybe go back two years.

Speaker 5 (30:57):
It was for the first bunch of years before.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
For that, Hey, I only want to sign with you
if you tell me when the radio ad date is
now it is. Tell me how you're going to bring
the story of my artist to the world, you know,
I dare say, And I tell you your buddy Rod
Phillips this all the time radio by getting records to

(31:23):
take a year to get up the chart is hurting
itself because people need discovery. But it's forced a lot
of looking at and it's not just streaming. Although streaming
is a lot of fun when you happen to get
that joy early on, but just ways to get a
story told through various social media places, and hopefully the

(31:47):
result of getting some streaming early on has become the day,
you know. And I swear to God, I don't don't
go after that in the name of being in lieu
of radio, because the big win is when you get
to the top twenty at radio and everything's you know,

(32:10):
it tends to be smoking along in terms of how
much consumption. There is a word that Kenny Chesney hates.
I think he's kind of come around to understand that
that is some weird part of our vernacular.

Speaker 5 (32:24):
Now I kind of hate it too. I hate product. Yeah,
I never call it product.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
But anyhow, my long winded way of saying, so, now
artists are coming in and with a story like Zach Bryan,
they have negotiating power that's very different than the one
who's begging you to come see them in the club,
and they haven't built a following, you know. And do

(32:49):
I think that'll become more mainstay?

Speaker 5 (32:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (32:53):
Do I think it becomes. It goes from probably five
percent of what gets signed to fifty percent. No, but
it's going to be probably closer to thirty or forty percent.
You know, there's still going to be things like hey,
Bailey Zimmerman, who I loved when you know, folks, Bobby
will just every once in a while text me and say, hey,

(33:15):
I just met with this artist.

Speaker 5 (33:16):
I think they're the real deal, right question mark?

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Because I know that you will even if they're your person.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
I know that you'll still be honest with me and
go like they haven't they have the real potential to
be the real deal.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Or you'll go like, yep, they sure are. No, You'll
be honest with me, And that's what I said.

Speaker 5 (33:35):
I always will.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
And I was thinking to myself, well, here's a guy
working on a pipeline two years ago, never picked up
a guitar and saying, boy, he has a way of.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
Connecting with people.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
He was kind of in between the Zach Brian building
an audience over a period of time and the artist
who you know has one song and you're hoping you
bet on the right song. But I do think that
we're going to get more and more people trying to
create a story that becomes compelling. It makes it easier

(34:09):
for the manager and lawyers when they come knock on
our doors, you know, And you know I have a
I don't mind being held up if I believe there's
a long term there.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
I was talking to Rod. I kind of cornered him
on the air. I later apologized to him because I
didn't mean to do it. But if we're on and
I'm doing the show, I just follow instinct and then
apologize later. If we're live, you know, that's the deal.
And he was walking by and I see him and
I say, hey, Rod, come up.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
And I've talked to him about.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
A couple of things, and I say, hey, why what's
the deal with Zach Bryan?

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Why are we not playing them? More like we can't
get enough? I said.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
And I understand it's different. I'mant a nationally syndicated show.
They don't just go Will and Alient those songs into that.
But I'm talking about it just generally, like why aren't
we And he goes, listen, I love him too. It
doesn't sound like what everything else sounds. So we're like
playing it in certain places to make sure and I'm.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Just like, he just go it's awesome and.

Speaker 5 (35:01):
Do it right.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
And I kind of got him into trouble because the
people start attacking him, which I didn't mean to do,
but I was just saying how I felt. And he
was like, don't apologize.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
You do what you do.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
That's what you do on the air, and I'll do
and I'm cool to have to stand by something even
if I personally don't agree with this is what he said.
He goes, I love Zach Bryan and I would play
him on every station all the time. But if I
do that, and he went down this executive talk that
he has to report to his ball right. So that
being said, did that ever get back to that I
was fighting with Rod about Zach Brown on the air.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
No, that's probably because I'm too distracted in life, period.
But I understand the notion. This is an odd retort
or response to your question. I was with a radio
programmer in Pittsburgh. I happened to go to Pittsburgh a
lot because I like my hometown. And he goes, are

(35:57):
you guys releasing Zach Brian now to purposely piss all
of us people off who've been playing him for months
and now we've played him too many times?

Speaker 5 (36:06):
And I said, only if.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
We were that smart, you know, No, we didn't know
whether anybody would ever want it. And then we kept
seeing you all who were playing this in these because
we were playing in the morning show.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
I was playing them too in the morning show.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah, and you'd get spins in these i mean streams
in these markets that were off the hook, and it
was like, okay, even us geniuses should not overthink this
and just put the damn record out and look what
it's doing.

Speaker 5 (36:32):
It's been the top stream song in country music.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
I think it's in its twelfth week or something like that,
and it's probably in the radio chart somewhere in the
high twenties, I think is where we've reached it.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
Now, we're now it's sarting to really have some balls,
you know, as far as people have to pay attention
to it, because it's climbing so high that it says, hello,
I'm here.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
You didn't play me, because if you don't, you're real. Iurility.
We'll be right back. Welcome back to the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
Legendary producer Dan Huff talks about what a producer does
when it comes to making an album and the various
albums that he produced. All Right, so you work in
Lone Star and that's the that was the one where
at least you said, hey, here's my resume, and it's
quite big now because I did the Lone Star record.
How many songs on the Lone Star records you do?
Are you all of it?

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (37:30):
That was? That was that record. I can't remember the
Lonely Grill. It was a record and there's a bunch
of hits off that.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
James so to a producer because we moved into the
producer part. For my listeners that don't know exactly what
a producer does, because luckily I do, and I didn't
until I started going into the studio myself and seeing
the producer pretty much does has to hear and see everything.
So now you're not just playing guitar, you're listening, You're
putting keys on things like what is in your mind?

(37:58):
How would you describe a record?

Speaker 10 (38:01):
But it's the person that gets it done. I mean,
there's no set way to do it. I mean I
worked for great producers who were not musicians, even who
you couldn't talk in terms of musical language. They couldn't
tell you which chord to player or whatever, but they
knew how to put teams together. I'm obviously a musician,
so it's kind of like being a player coach, you know,
that type of thing, and it helps me cast. I'm

(38:23):
a real believer in casting. You know, you don't put
I learned probably more about how to produce by by
working with producers who who you know, I was on
the receiving end of some of their mistakes. You know,
you get somebody cast who's not the right person to play,
and you're kind of, you know, pistol whipping him into
into doing something that he doesn't know how to do.
You don't do that, you know, you you play to

(38:44):
people's strengths, and and so knowing who does what and
who does what really well is a good is a good?
You know, leg up in it, and I know how
to communicate. I usually don't like to play guitar well
i'm producing. I usually do it after the fact and
in the over dubstish scenario, just because it's hard to
when I've sitting and play guitar. I'm a guitar player.
I can't help. But I just that's that's kind of

(39:06):
what who I am. When when, and sometimes I will
do it. But but you try to listen to the
big picture. You're you're supposed to be listening to that
relationship between the artist, that song and the band. So
that's the big picture, and then what kind of manucia
you get into is kind of dependent on, you know,
your ability and your interest in Some producers get you know,

(39:26):
get you know, put on the gloves and get way
down deep into it. Some producers hire that out, you know,
and there's no right or wrong way of doing it.
But in the end, does it work. That's what the
record companies care about.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
My question, I guess is And so I go back
to like the Beach Boys, for example, whenever Brian Wilson
would produce the Beach Boys, the band would go on
tour and he and he would have all this stuff
ready for them, and you know, the Wrecking Crew. I mean,
all those guys were playing the band wasn't really playing
the records, but then they would go out on tour

(39:58):
and play all the songs. Now, as a producer, are
there times where you're like, you know what, I'm producing
a band, but to really get a good record, I
need to get players in here and not the actual band.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Is that ever awkward?

Speaker 10 (40:09):
Oh, it's always awkward, especially if the band in Nashville,
we set up a little bit differently. Historically, it's always
been I think its town has been more of an
extension of publishing. And that's the way the record business,
that's my view of it. Touring is a separate entity,
you know. And and so it was, you know, the
artists would come in with the producers, with their players,

(40:30):
the studio players. They would do that record we cut.
The artists went on did their thing with their bands,
and neverthe did the two kind of intertwined, you know
what about a band though, That's that's where now all
of a sudden fast forward, you know. Yeah, there are
artists who who is like, I want my sound. I
don't want to sound like the last record it's and
that's really tough to do because you get these musicians

(40:53):
the songs, I mean, pop music, pop country, it's all.
It's it's still a pretty narrow tunnel to go through, right,
There's it's just the pop music in general, the same musicians,
the same songs ish, right, and it's going to kind
of sound the same. So these artists have a real
reason to say I want my people. There's the rub
because sometimes there it's dependent on time ability, you know,

(41:18):
just because you can play what's on the record doesn't
mean you can create it, play in time and be
able to move on a moment's notice. So there's always
some negotiation there. As a producer, I prefer having band
members from the touring crews come in because I think that,
even though it takes a little bit longer, sometimes I
think that gives it a little more identity.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
And now I never ask you a name anyone, but
as there have been a situation where a whole band
that we would know as a band where the lead
singer was the only because the band just didn't have
the jobs, but the lead singer saying and the rest
of the guys are studio players. Oh yeah, Oh that's
a comment. That's really a comment thing, even though that's
the the real band like that.

Speaker 10 (41:54):
Absolutely, yeah, I mean, you know, and it's just and
again it you know, I understand some were I mean again,
I've worn both hats. I've been a player on these
things before. I used to uh, the first two records
of Rascal Flats, I played guitar on those records. I
was one of the you know, Joe Don Rooney's a
great guitar player. And the first song that we did, yeah,

(42:16):
that was my first song that I produced him and
and and Martin Bright Marty Williams produced the first two records.
They were great that God bless the broken rode on it.
I mean, this is great stuff. It was more studio
players that I think Jay played a little bit on
those records.

Speaker 11 (42:30):
He may played a little bit more.

Speaker 10 (42:31):
I probably, you know, I probably don't have all my research,
but I remember that we were all in there playing
and I kept looking at Joe Don, did you need
to play these things? And so when they decided to
make a change and they called me, that was that
was the big thing. You know, I got Joe Don
playing all that stuff. I mean, that's that's him. Now,
some of the rhythm parts I played or or I

(42:52):
would hire that out, but he was always there playing
all the solos were Joe Don.

Speaker 11 (42:56):
From that moment on.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Those guys pretty proficient all the way around.

Speaker 10 (42:59):
Absolutely, He's a great bassa. Jay's a great musician period.
I mean there's only three of them, so and I
think now, I mean I still used other studio players.
I mean, you know, I mean I didn't use their
road crew, and and and to their credit, Jay who
is producing their records now and they're great, really good records.
I think he's using I know he's using Jim Riley,
their drummer, who's a great drummer. So, you know, I mean,

(43:19):
producers get you know, you get comfortable. They expect you
to deliver the record label and the band actually expects
you to deliver. As long as you're having hits, you're
in right. So so there is that I think you said,
it's it's just awkward and uncomfortable and you kind of
got to navigate.

Speaker 11 (43:35):
Those those those situations, kind.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
Of those that were only being three guys. But those
three guys can play. Yeah, well Gary doesn't play, I
mean he sings well, but you can play that voice.
He plays that voice.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah, yeah, play at all.

Speaker 11 (43:46):
Yeah, that was I do have a great story about
that song.

Speaker 10 (43:48):
This is and I don't think they will mind me
telling this story, but that's this is a great story,
and this is just this is just.

Speaker 11 (43:54):
The beauty and the recklessness and craziness of these guys.

Speaker 5 (43:57):
You know.

Speaker 10 (43:57):
So I think the first song that I did with them,
when when they said they're going to make a producer change,
it was I think we recorded the song life is
a Highway for that car cards yeah, so it's great
and everybody's in there. We did that and it was
you know, it was like we really nailed it. I mean,
doing a cover song sometimes scary anyway, so it wasn't
going to be. Well in a month and a half,

(44:18):
we're going to start the record and it was great
and you know, very loose, and the guys are touring
all the time. So we show up in the studio
and h this is out in Franklin and we're gonna
cut what hurts the most that night. Right, So we
show up and I think it's we're gonna start at
seven o'clock and it's about eight o'clock and I asked Jay,
I said, hey, so when's Gary going to show up?

(44:38):
And just without missing a beat, Jay goes, oh.

Speaker 11 (44:41):
He's not coming, so huh. He said, no, he's hunting.
This is this is whatever season.

Speaker 10 (44:48):
I don't know when you shoot right now, right, you know,
but there is there is a kind of a season, right,
And he acted like, you know, well, Dot, I mean,
everybody knows that Gary's not going to show up during
hunting season. And I'm sitting there going, well, I didn't
get the memo. I mean, I'm assuming that we need
a singer to sing this song that we've never you
guys never and jaycobs Holme hit a key, he goes

(45:11):
about that key that'll be about Rastbull Jerry Gary sings
and that was it.

Speaker 11 (45:15):
So we we just cut the track. Is that bizarre?

Speaker 2 (45:19):
And of course.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
That's some funny about Gary because Gary lives in the
wood when Gary's not in the woods. Like I know
that about Gary now, Like Gary lives in the woods
when he's not in the wood.

Speaker 10 (45:25):
He's unapologetically and you know that's his right, that's what
it's sacred for him.

Speaker 11 (45:29):
I get it.

Speaker 3 (45:30):
I was a little thrown off at first, but you know,
because you're producing a record without a singer.

Speaker 10 (45:34):
Well yeah, the first yeah, you'd think you know, but
now there was presidents because I mentioned I used to
play on records without singer, so okay, we can do this.
But it just it took me about fifteen minutes to
get my head kind of when does Gary show up
to do the vocals? Then whenever he wanted to, whatever
wasn't hunting season, you know, I mean, he would come
in and he'd just come over to the house and

(45:56):
and you know, you know, he get it. Have his
You and tobacco, you know, point me in the direction
and he just go in there and whale and you know,
just does what he does. He's he's he's beautifully naive
is not the right word, detached in a lot of ways.
He is such a pure talent and he just does it.

(46:16):
When he does it, you know, it's just it's he's
not like a guy who likes to be in the studio,
and there's a freshness about it. It takes a little
while getting used to it. But I love that story
and that song, that song that was that was a
massive part in kind of another validation for me as
a producer here in town.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
How about this one? So you work with Taylor? Yeah, yeah,
what she liked to work with as an artist.

Speaker 11 (46:42):
Oh, she's great.

Speaker 7 (46:43):
I mean.

Speaker 10 (46:46):
That song and I'm trying to think how that came down.
I think that was that was kind of in her
transition era. And and they weren't they weren't roping that,
and so I think she'd already done the vocals and
and uh, Scott Burshetta.

Speaker 11 (47:00):
Said, I don't think she's going to come and re sing.
I think you're gonna have to use that. But could
you recut the track.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
So she had already cut the vocals somewhere else. Yes,
And so they just give that to you and say
make the song happen.

Speaker 10 (47:12):
Yes, yeah, it was. It was a little bit bizarre.
It just what you know, And this happens to all
of us. This is a tough thing and it just
happened to me just recently too. You know, sometimes you
don't get it, you know, and and and the label
and the artists really think that that this song is
the deal. They got to get it done. And if
you know, sometimes you look at it's like you look
at a painting so close. That's how it is to you.

(47:33):
And you can her producer at that time, Nathan Chapman,
who is I know Nathan, Yeah, this guy is genius level.
I think he's one of the best that we got
here in Nashville. And he's at one of the best
people I know too. So it was tough on Nathan.
He was he was man, he was so pro about it.
He was so cool. And he just sent me over
the vocals, said you have a go at this thing, man,

(47:54):
you know. I said, I'm just I'm I'm looking at
it's too close for me. And so so I took
it and you know, had had a different kind of
take on and when did it and so you send it?
Did Since you are saying the vocals, did you work
with her or do you just work with her voice?
That was in a recorded little well hard mostly on
that the voice. The voice had been recorded. I can't
remember if I did. It was a while back, so

(48:15):
I can't remember if I READD harmony vocals or what.

Speaker 5 (48:19):
I remember.

Speaker 10 (48:19):
She came over to the house wants to re sing
a couple of lines that I wanted to try, and
that was that was basically She's great. I mean, she's
Taylor Swift.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
You say you missed? What did you miss on? You
say you missed recently? What did you miss it?

Speaker 5 (48:32):
Was?

Speaker 2 (48:33):
It was the only tell you the story?

Speaker 10 (48:34):
Yeah, story, yeah, yeah, I mean I don't think I
mixed missed, But but I was doing a song with
Keith and and it was you know, and because of
my I guess, my age, my status in the industry,
I heard a lot of projects like this and I
and I see the pain in the producers that have
worked their their ass off basically to get this stuff right,

(48:56):
and all of a sudden they're calling in this old geezer,
you know, to fix it, and so it it's it's hurtful.
It just really is. It's a business, right, and usually
I know how to finish. I'm a really good finish.

Speaker 11 (49:05):
On this stuff.

Speaker 10 (49:06):
So so I get it, you know, and it and it.
It doesn't happen to me a lot. I will say that.
But but the other day I was doing a song
with Keith and and actually Ross Kopman and I were
doing it together, and I think we did a really
good job. But just Keith hurt it differently, and and
he and he took it somewhere else. So it's like
you get a little you know, you got to learn
how to take it. I mean this is you know,
you get benched in in pro sports, you get benched

(49:28):
in music. I mean you know, as a player, they
race my parts of time, and and it's it's one
thing that you get it intellectually, but you still it hurts.
It never it never gets you never get used to
to getting replaced on something.

Speaker 5 (49:41):
It just happens to you.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
You mentioned Keith and Ross, and I'll hit this one
here because in different ways they were both involved in this.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
Blue Ain't Your color? Ross wrote if I'm right, because
Ross in front of mine and.

Speaker 10 (49:54):
Right that one, and I don't think no he actually
Right's one of the only hits in Nashville that Ross
didn't right.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
Okay, So Stephen Stephen Lee Olson wrote it, I know
I did you produce with Ross?

Speaker 11 (50:06):
No? I did, Keith and.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
Ross had nothing to do with the song. I'm just
giving Ross every hit for every every credit for every hit.
I guess there is what's great?

Speaker 11 (50:12):
No, it's good.

Speaker 10 (50:13):
No, No, I actually he didn't on that one.

Speaker 11 (50:16):
But you know, you know what I think, Ross, He's great.

Speaker 7 (50:18):
Stephen Leo, Steve, Hillary Lindsley Lindsay and Clinton Lugebert.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
Sorry about that, Ross, I gave you extra credit. So,
but this is you.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
You produce a song here, which if when Keith comes
to you, I says, hey, I want a song to
feel a certain way?

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Does he do that on this song? And go I
need it to feel And then what does that song
feel like?

Speaker 5 (50:40):
With Keith?

Speaker 11 (50:40):
Keith and I go back to somebody like you right?
And it was bizarre.

Speaker 10 (50:44):
I mean, I don't think he wanted to work with
me at first because because he didn't like the records
that I was producing. But it worked out. That was
the first song that we actually did together. And then
I don't know how many we did, like six records straight,
and now I work with him. I don't do all
of his records. I mean, you know, there's a certain amount,
you know, you you kind of squeeze the fruit, and
that's you know, you can only get so much. But

(51:05):
we keep returning because there's something that we have and
it's really undefinable. Bob, I don't know how to tell you.
Like when Keith and I get in a room that
we usually do no prep. They just play me a song,
go what do you think? Yeah, and we just start.
We usually pick up guitars. Keith, I don't. It's never

(51:25):
worked out where I haven't been able to do it. No,
I've I've you know, interesting song on that same record,
the first single I did I did with him. Ross
wrote it, he didn't produce it, but he the John
three sixteen song John John. And I think I think
actually Keith took that one to Nathan Chapman first, and

(51:45):
I think Nathan just was like it was a totally
different song at that point, and and Nate just said,
you know, I just I just don't hear it. It's
just fine, you know. And and so Keith called me up.
I was second calling that one, you know, And we
went in to the studio and we just I think
it was a drummer and Keith and I that was it,
and the bass player was going to come in, and
the bass player hadn't shown up yet, and we were

(52:07):
just kind of struming through ideas.

Speaker 11 (52:08):
I grabbed a guitar started playing something. He said, oh,
I dig Thatt's okay, is there a bass here?

Speaker 10 (52:12):
So he grabbed a bass and all of a sudden,
the identity of the song happened that quickly when he
played bass. Poor bass player came in right on time
for his big Keith Urban session. I think it was
his debut session, and I had to say, bass player, hey,
I think we got the bass part.

Speaker 11 (52:29):
Yeah, it was Keith and it.

Speaker 10 (52:30):
But it was really good, you know, Keith, I thought
we were going to replace it, but it had so
much personality. All that to say, with Keith and I,
there is no we have no set way of doing things.
I mean a lot of times he'll come over to
the house or I'll go over to his house. We
hang guitars back and forth, you know, and and we
have a certain understanding as guitar players, and songs just
kind of emanate out of that, you.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Know, urban as a player.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Where would he be in this studio session world if
he decided to be a studio player.

Speaker 10 (53:00):
Is he Well, no, Keith is a is a great musician,
is a great guitar play He is an identity, which
which doesn't necessarily translate into studio work because studio sometimes
it's it's it's it's the ability to take on different identities.
So the talent, I don't I don't think Keith reads
his His musical IQ is off the charts, so he

(53:22):
could adapt to anything. How that would translate in day
to day session work, I don't know. I guess that's
a different linear versus non linear of mindset. Yeah, totally,
And it's not it's I ever thought about it like
that before. Yeah, I mean it's like, yeah, it's it's
it's it's like the idea that the foolish notes saying
who's the best drummer, who's the best guitar player in

(53:44):
the world, that you can how can you compare, you know,
how could you compare Keith Richards to Andre Segovia.

Speaker 11 (53:50):
You can't that comparison. They both play guitar, but that's
it's a different world.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
Who have you seen play as a player like a fan,
that's not where you're just like, man, I can never
do that like that you've seen with your own eyeballs,
and you're like, I don't there's no way.

Speaker 11 (54:07):
I'm humbled like that all the time.

Speaker 10 (54:09):
I there's there's a lot of things I can do
like I can do just because I practiced so much
in my life.

Speaker 11 (54:16):
I mean there were some. There were some like like
jazz players like Joe Pass I could I could never.

Speaker 5 (54:20):
Play like that.

Speaker 10 (54:21):
I couldn't chicken pick like Brent Mason does on some
of those records in the nineties, those Alan Jackson records.
I could play the notes, but they wouldn't sound like that.
So so it's more it's more like it's not that
physically I.

Speaker 11 (54:35):
Can't do those things. It's like that I know they
don't never sound that good.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
Artists wise, who have you been blown away by with
their style and how good they were, like we would
like they really are as legit as we see them,
Like you mentioned Keith Richards. I don't know if you
ever seen Keith play. Like in person, when you see
Keith Richards play what do you see.

Speaker 10 (54:51):
The soundtrack to My My Life? I mean it's it's
not that what Keith can do I couldn't do when
I was twelve years old or ten for that fact.
I mean it's not it's not that hard to do,
but to do it like he does it that that's
a lifetime and nobody can do it but him.

Speaker 5 (55:05):
Keith.

Speaker 10 (55:06):
Keith has really I think developed into that soul as
a as a musician he speaks.

Speaker 11 (55:13):
I think the highest comment I could play pay to.

Speaker 10 (55:15):
Keith is that when you hear him play guitar, you
can you know it's Keith Urban And I think that
that identity that's very hard to achieve. It's a different
scale than a studio musician who's who's having to wear
ten hats maybe in the course of a week.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
What about it Like a guy like a John Mayer.

Speaker 10 (55:30):
Oh, he's stunning, stunning, great, He's he's like a student
of guitar. I mean, it's like and his identity change
is quite a bit. I mean he's rhythmically, his chops
are first rate. He can play Jeff Beck almost like
Jeff Beck and that's a pretty high compliment because that's
my favorite guitar player. He's a blues aficionado. I mean,

(55:52):
he can play pretty much anything.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
Rod Phillips is the head of iHeart Country, and he
talked about how a song gets on the radio and
how that process works. Rod also talks about why certain
songs get played more than others. But educate me on
how a song ends up on the radio, because it's
got to go through a lot of steps before that.

Speaker 12 (56:10):
Sure, well, it really starts outside of our industry, being
the radio industry. It starts from the artist and probably
the manager working with the label, meaning the folks that
run Universal Records or Wonder Music Nashville.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
They go to their label and they've got people who
work in A and R.

Speaker 12 (56:32):
Who are picking what they think are the best songs
in terms of we think this sound has the best
chance to be a hit, typically on the radio or
wherever else they're pushing music.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
So songs come to you already like this is the song, correct, not,
here's eleven songs.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Pick whichever wanted to play on the radio.

Speaker 12 (56:51):
Correct, it's a single song from an album or the
next single from the album, And they say we think
this has the best shot. We hope you because we're
going to push this now. As a program director, either
on a national or local level, I can go get
a different song. But if I'm going to be the
only one playing it and everybody else is playing the
song that a bunch of people who are experts in

(57:14):
their own field have picked, then you're always sort of
just gonna be an outlier and you're not participating in
the song that's most likely going to be a hit.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
And it's hard to change a single song trajectory about
being one or two or just five stations. Correct, It
almost has to be a unified front as proposed by
the record label.

Speaker 5 (57:33):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
So they come to you, they say, this is a
single Kicking Fish. Just made that up.

Speaker 3 (57:36):
So they bring you kick and Fish, and you're a
radio you're the guy. But does every single get pitched
to you, like, every single one of them from every artist? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (57:47):
Yeah, so they all every song comes to But then
what do you do, especially if it's a new artist. Well,
I mean that's a loaded question.

Speaker 10 (57:57):
You know.

Speaker 12 (57:57):
We at any given time there are probably seventy five
to ninety songs being pitched all new.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
Like seventy five to ninety new songs.

Speaker 12 (58:10):
Yeah, well let's just say, let's say thirty of them
are are already solidly on the chart.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
What you play in your countdown? Okay, so now there's
what there's forty.

Speaker 12 (58:19):
Five, call it forty five, fifty sometimes sixty songs, and
you're choosing from those songs to decide one or two
to put on a playlist that week. I mean, you
might put three or four on in a week sometimes,
but that's you usually don't have that much room. I mean,
there's usually the thirty songs you have to play because
they're solidly on the chart. Some other stuff you're playing

(58:42):
in a new category. Now you're deciding from the rest
what you think has the best chance. Now, if I
know that Dirk s Bentley's coming out with a song
he just released gold, I think it's fantastic, Suddenly that
kind of goes to the front of the line, if
you will, from a selection process.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
But all of them are vail.

Speaker 12 (59:01):
And then to the point we made earlier, if Noah
Schnacky's got a song in Minneapolis and Greg Thinksi's good,
he may go and get that one, and that might
be the sixty sixth song being pitched.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
So it's that's why it's not easy.

Speaker 12 (59:14):
I mean, you know, Luke Comb's emerging and becoming a
superstars is is not the norm.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
So if kicking Fish is presented, somebody calls me and goes, no, man,
I like that song, my butt, where's the cowboy hat?

Speaker 2 (59:26):
And if you don't play that, you ain't country.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
That's not on us because it wasn't presented to For
the most part radio, it wasn't even an option to
because anyone in radio knows if they play it, they're
by themselves and if they're going to create a story,
it's going to take forever because it's one station. So
it isn't the person's fault at the radio station. It
isn't the person's fault that's running the radio company. It's

(59:50):
not anyone's fault. It was just a song was chosen
by the record label and the artist. Yep, I think
there's and I would be confused about that too if
I hadn't worked inside of this for a long time.
But also I'm almost starting to be a bit disconnected
from the radio part of it because I don't do
that really as much anymore.

Speaker 12 (01:00:07):
Which I like that because then I get feedback from
you on other stuff that's yeah, that that I haven't
heard about yet.

Speaker 10 (01:00:14):
I like that too.

Speaker 11 (01:00:15):
Be a honest with you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Yeah, it's a good thing. People be like, why does
radio I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
I don't know what's going on, you know, And I'd
be like, well, let me call her od and ask
a question or two.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
But I really don't know anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
So, okay, you have a song that goes and you're
picking up you putting in new music? Is there like
a national new music category? Because the national that's that's
quite the big word with a lot of If it's
playing national, it's getting a lot of spins.

Speaker 7 (01:00:37):
Not on the verge.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
But where would you put a song that you like?
It's a song you're like, I think this has got
a lot of potential. Do you put it at every
station at two pm?

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Do you put it?

Speaker 5 (01:00:46):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
What do you do as soon as the song's new artist,
new song? You believe in it, But it's not the
on the verge?

Speaker 12 (01:00:50):
Well, I don't put them at every station in terms
of the stations that iHeart owns. But again I have
influence in terms of when you say national, we have
some programs that do go out nationally. Your show Women
of My Heart Country, you obviously pick some.

Speaker 7 (01:01:08):
Music for that.

Speaker 5 (01:01:09):
We pick some music for that.

Speaker 12 (01:01:10):
So when we picked the songs that go on that show,
it plays, you know, that weekend on one hundred and
fifty different radio stations or one hundred and twenty five really.
But you know, because we're sort of the net, we
control the national pieces, we're not taking as many out there,
out of left field chances as individual stations or regions

(01:01:32):
of the country might be. If that may, yeah, we're
taking them up. It's not going to hurt as bad, right,
We're taking the best of the best, if you will. Yeah,
And then the ones that are going to be the best,
it's okay that we don't go with them immediately because
I always say that that I do believe the hits
rise right to the top. I mean, it's hard to
hold a real hit down. I'm sure there's a lot
of great music that never makes it, because it's like

(01:01:55):
there's great basketball players who the NBA never discovered, right,
But for the most part, the best hits, I think
do make it through the clutter, if you will, of
a lot of really good music. But from a national standpoint,
we can sort of wait and see what pops out
of the you know, Southwest or out of Florida or

(01:02:16):
something that then shows itself that wasn't already obvious.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Do you get at your position people going what do
you do a man in a country music Yeah? Oh yeah,
it's still that reaches you. Oh yeah, who would tell
you that?

Speaker 12 (01:02:33):
Well, so that's a good point when when when you
asked it, I get the feedback. Because we also a
big radio company, we still do more research. Probably nobody
comes to you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
I'm saying because if somebody you don't have a face
that people know and connect with country music because you're
the guy making the decision and Jathan God's upfront being like,
I'm the guy I have that have the face that's
up front.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
People can get to me very.

Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
Easy, I think, call me, they can message me, and
you know they're like, you suck, You're not country, this
music is not country.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
So I hear it all the time. Yeah that's true.

Speaker 12 (01:03:04):
I guess it's not a one on one personal People
are not contacting me personally, but I feel the feedback
because we ask a lot of people and then we
roll up under research teams. But what are country fans
in total saying about, you know, the strength or lack
of strength, or what they like about country music, but
they don't like about country music. So Research, I don't

(01:03:27):
know what is that. So Research is like any company,
they reach out to consumers. I mean, we find ways
to find people who listen to the radio, who listen
to the Bobby Bone Show, who listen to country radio
and don't listen to your show, who consume country music
on streaming but not so much on radio.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
We talk to all those people.

Speaker 12 (01:03:47):
In other words, we reach out to them and we
talk to them about why they're using things, and you
collect that data, but you also reach out to those people.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
And now it's online. The people go and listen to
pieces of music.

Speaker 12 (01:04:00):
Online and they can tell the people like and go
here's the link. You can definitely find people, we can
definitely send them to. And this happens in you know,
the auto industry. I mean I get them all the time.

Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
Will you go?

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
And we want to ask you questions about four trucks?
So we do the same thing.

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
How many people do you think is a good sample
size for a week of making decisions about music?

Speaker 12 (01:04:20):
Well, I mean I can tell you that that radio
stations can can use one hundred people and feel good
about it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Now, that's sort of over time too.

Speaker 12 (01:04:32):
You wouldn't want to go and have one research project
for the year and talk to one hundred people in
any town. It's it's too narrow. But if you're consistently
talking to a group of one hundred and another group
of one hundred, another group of one hundred, over time,
you can see what people's tendencies are if you will,
so you use I mean most research companies don't talk

(01:04:53):
to even when you look at a gallop pole.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
I mean, you would probably know better than me.

Speaker 12 (01:04:56):
But they'll survey where the presidentdential races and they'll be
talking to nationwide couple thousand people, Yeah, nationwide, Yeah like
that not a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
So what we're saying is you do depend on people's opinion, sure,
on the format, on the actual actual amusing.

Speaker 7 (01:05:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:05:15):
We asked him what they think about Luke Bryan as
a persona versus you know, here's Luke Brian's song, what
do you think of it? We ask them what they
think about their radio station, what they think about the
morning show on that radio stitte.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
We ask them a lot of stuff.

Speaker 9 (01:05:30):
Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor,
and we're back on the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
CMA Awards producer Robert Deaton talks about what goes into
an awards show and the biggest risks he's ever taken.
Robert also shares how Chris Stapleton justin Timberlake and that
performance came together. Remember it blew everybody away and kind
of launched Chris Stapleton into the mainstream.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
What does a producer do?

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
Because I think a lot of people see it on
TV pop up and go producer, you know, for Roberty,
they don't really know what that entails. So like if
we were to go talk to explain it, like I'm five,
what does a producer do?

Speaker 7 (01:06:14):
So every creative decision goes through me? So set design,
lighting design, individual performances, who gets on the show, what
are they going to sing? Every single aspect of the
show goes through me. So now I have a great team.
Of course, I've got great people, lighting designers, set designer.

(01:06:37):
I think that you know, a producer has to have
a good taste, you know, I think that's really important.
So yeah, everything goes through me, every creative decision.

Speaker 3 (01:06:48):
Just I'm gonna veer around a bit when you talk
about creative decisions and at times you take risks as
a producer. And I don't know if this was a
risk or not, but I was watching the CMA Festival special, yeah,
and to me, I thought Brothers Osbourne stole the show.
Now I'm biased because I love those guys and I'm
friends with those guys, but I really thought they stole

(01:07:10):
the show. And there was a point where there was
a really long John guitar solo yes on Network TV
in primetime seven minutes, and I'm thinking to myself as
it's happening, like I love this and I enjoyed this.
But that was a risk and I think it paid off.
But for you to put that first of all, Brothers Osborne,
who to the mainstream aren't so known yet correct and

(01:07:34):
guitar solo.

Speaker 7 (01:07:36):
For that long, right, sometimes I feel like you have
to do it because it's great.

Speaker 10 (01:07:42):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:07:44):
Sure, I'm an answer to the ratings, and I answered
to ABC and in the CMA, But sometimes isn't the
answer good enough that it's just great? And so it
was great, and there was in and I didn't know them.
I met them the day of That's when I met
them during rehearsal and they I'm in the truck and

(01:08:08):
I'm looking at going, oh man, I'm gonna have to
cut this down. It's like this is going on and
on and on. And then you watched how he it
was genius, how he created that guitar solo, that how
the movements worked in it, and how it progressed. And
so we looked at it in the edit and I
was like, oh, we just got to do it. I

(01:08:29):
was like, let's just put it in and see if
ABC says anything.

Speaker 3 (01:08:32):
That's such a like that's such a big time commitment
for such an out of the box thing it is.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Did you think they were going to come back and
say you need to cut?

Speaker 7 (01:08:40):
I did think they were going to cut. I thought
I thought they would call back. Luckily, you know, there's
music guys. You're a music guy, right, you get you know,
growing up, I was all one. Growing up, I was
about TV and TV shows and music. That's all I
was about. Just I would on the back of the

(01:09:00):
album covers, you know who played on this record and
who did that? And I just love music. And so luckily, uh,
there's a guy at ABC. He came over from Kimmel.
He was the music booker. I know him, Scott, I
know him well. Yeah he's a great guy.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
Yeah, great guy.

Speaker 7 (01:09:18):
And so Scott called me and said I love the
brothers Osborne and I was like, great, we're going to
keep it all right, He's like, absolutely, keep it all.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
So Scott was the guy that saw it and said
this is good. Let's keep it. It's like the perfect team.
It is like it's two music lovers.

Speaker 7 (01:09:36):
ABC is in trouble. No, but no, surely it is
too music lovers. And and again I've poked things again
just because it's it's the right thing to do, like
girl Crush. You know, when I first booked it, I
booked it for the Billboard Awards and it wasn't the
hit now that everybody remembers in the award winning and uh,

(01:09:57):
it was just one of those things. Man, it's like,
we should book this because it's great.

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
And and we did talk to me a second. We'll
just stay on the CMA Awards for a minute. There's
a lot, but we're talking about a risk, and I
can I the open. Last year's CMA Awards.

Speaker 7 (01:10:13):
Was a risk. Last year's mean the fiftieth Oh in Dallas. No, No,
the fiftieth for me here in Nashville. The fiftieth anniversary
of the CMA Awards.

Speaker 3 (01:10:24):
Oh, that's right, that's right, because all the acts, it
was a legendary that's right, because you had a lot
of legends that some of them were really older, older, older,
like because what it was I'm remembering now what it
was is they all played part of a song and
at the beginning of the CMAS it.

Speaker 7 (01:10:42):
Was like this one song after another of all different greats.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
Yes, but some of them were really old. Well, you know,
it's a struggle.

Speaker 7 (01:10:52):
It was a risk, and I will tell you I
had calls from people going, wow, that you are really wow.
Just managers and by the way, we're for you, we
want you to do this. Uh. And when you get
when you see you know, when you get Charlie Daniels
or Roy Acuff, I mean, I'm sorry Charlie Daniels or

(01:11:14):
Roy Clark and they're thanking you for being there. It's like,
you don't need to thank me. You've earned being here.
But it was it was a risk, but it was
also the rehearsal was tough.

Speaker 3 (01:11:26):
Man.

Speaker 7 (01:11:27):
It was like it was a nightmare.

Speaker 3 (01:11:30):
Okay, you had people you can fall back on, like
I remember if again. I'm just gonna for a memory,
like Paisley.

Speaker 7 (01:11:34):
Was Paisley, Carrie Underwood and Alabama and Roy Clark.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
And they were in it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
So it was almost like a balancing act where you
kind of had to stack someone who maybe it was
older and couldn't move as well as they used to
against someone who could.

Speaker 7 (01:11:50):
Just in case that's correct. It was funny. We were,
like I said, we never did get a one full rehearsal.
I mean the first time you saw it was on
the air, and so it was just like, you know,
because we were bouncing back and forth between bands, between
Bras band and Carrie's band, and it was it was
so important to me though, but so it was a

(01:12:12):
train wreck nightmare the rehearsal. So I'm walking across the stage,
I got my head down and I hear a voice
look better on paper, didn't it? And it was Vince Gill.
I'm think it'll be fine, and Vince is like, yeah,
it'll be good, it'll be good.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
Who was it that was struggling rehearsal where you're like, man.

Speaker 7 (01:12:33):
You know what it was? It wasn't necessarily artists struggling.
It was the number of artists and the time, you know,
just the time period of going from one to the next,
because you know, transitions. It was the transitions And it
wasn't any one particular artist. We had a hard time with.
Of all things, we had a hard time with Mountain

(01:12:56):
Music Alabama, Alabama, yea, of all things, just music. You know,
we were playing the wrong chord or something and only
Randy could hear it, and it was like, so that
took a minute. But it was just the sheer number
of artists back and forth. But I will tell you
it came off. I've looked at it five hundred times.

(01:13:17):
It's like the proudest thing I've ever done.

Speaker 3 (01:13:19):
So once you do that and it comes off early
on in a TV show, and that's the hardest thing.
Were you able to kind of go a little bit
even though it was early on the show?

Speaker 7 (01:13:27):
Yeah? Well, I will tell you the first reaction is
we could be men in here, right? But I cried.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
It was like, son of us, are men in here world?

Speaker 13 (01:13:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:13:40):
Or not?

Speaker 13 (01:13:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (01:13:43):
So I cried. It was when I knew by the
time we got to Alan, I knew we were through it,
and I knew it was great. And then, because you
know what, growing up, I grew up in Wilmington, North Carolina,
and my dad worked. My father worked at a television station.
He had a Friday night country music show. I was five, six, seven, eight,

(01:14:09):
nine years old and he had a and I was
on the show. I was a square dancer on the show.
So and so what he would do is book all
the country music Grandel Loppery stars that were coming through,
buck Owens, Ray Pilla, Jack Greene, Jenny Seeley. So I

(01:14:30):
was always around this as a kid. So I felt
pressure even in that. I was like, I gotta get
this right, not for me, but for them and for
the history and what we're what we're trying to accomplish.
So yeah, I cried at the end of it. And
then and I did feel that way. I felt like
we're going to be because I knew what I had
coming up to. I knew I had George Straight and

(01:14:52):
Alan Jackson. I knew I had this great duet with
Garth and Tricia. You know, I had Garth singing Don't
Close your Eyes by Keith Whitley. I mean, does it
get any better than that? So I knew I had
those things that you kind of like the old Al
Joelson thing, you ain't seen nothing yet. I felt that way,

(01:15:14):
but it was a lot of pressure.

Speaker 3 (01:15:15):
I have you to think for a big part of
my career that some things that I get to do
as far as breaking artists. So I'll set you up
with the story and then you'll see where you come
into play.

Speaker 5 (01:15:24):
Here.

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
Man, it's been now. I don't even know the timeline,
but I can't.

Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
There was this artist that lived in town as a songwriter,
and I kept bringing him in and nobody knew me.
It was I can't bring him in and he didn't
have a record out or anything.

Speaker 7 (01:15:37):
I called him.

Speaker 3 (01:15:37):
The first time I called him, I called him my home.
He was in the power and he's like, hey, go back,
and I'm wet in the shower. I'm like cool, So
he came up. Nobody was blew the rip roof off.
Second time came up. No, I started getting in trouble
for bringing them in because my bosses who don't some
of them don't listen to the show because they're nash
or they're in New York or LA, and they're like, hey,
people are reporting back that Bobby who has five million listeners,

(01:15:58):
So why is he playing this unknown artist on the
show that doesn't have any hits. So my direct boss said, hey,
what what are you wind this dude? I was like,
trust me, he's really good. And then thank you Robert Deaton,
because you put Stapleton on with Justin Kimberlake and it
was it's that's the I think it's the biggest moment
in the in the last five years of the CMA.

(01:16:20):
I think that's the biggest moment that And I don't
know how you did because I want to ask what
that what went into that decision, but you made me
look brilliant, like you putting that in creating that that's
what made Stapleton what he is to people. He already
was awesome, people just hadn't seen him yet. He would
come to my studio be blown away.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
I'd be like, how is this guy not something?

Speaker 3 (01:16:40):
But you're the one who put him on, And because
of you, I get to break artists like crazy now,
like my company is like you know what I quit?
You just do you? And because you put those two together,
they finally gave me the you go ahead, Okay, we'll
leave you alone.

Speaker 7 (01:16:54):
So I got to know.

Speaker 2 (01:16:55):
First of all, thank you very much for that. Secondly,
how did that come together?

Speaker 7 (01:16:58):
Well, I had been already in touch with Justin for
several years and trying to figure out a way to
get him on the show. We were closed one year.
We thought we were going to do a remote from
I think it was in New Jersey, and then you
know what, his manager call and said, listen, he definitely

(01:17:22):
wants to do the CMA Awards one day, but he
wants when he does them, he wants to do him
in the room. He wants to be there. I'm like,
totally get it. You know what, he should be here
because this is a great room. You know, it's like
if you're an artist and you haven't done the CMA Awards,
it's like I have people at a genre all the

(01:17:42):
time going. I had the best time. It was awesome.
I loved the people. There's writers and you know, it's
just great. So I've found out through Chris Stapleton's management
that they were friends and uh, and so I reached
out and Chris reached out, but we both reached out.

(01:18:05):
When you got the yeah, he'll do it, it was
on the phone with Justin. Really yeah, So this is
what happened? So how much? So the questions are from justin, well,
how much time do we have? And I said, as
much as you want. You know, it's like, because well,

(01:18:29):
first of all, let me back up this one bit.
My son. You know, he was a I guess junior
in high school at the time. Like I mean, I
knew Chris Dableton's record backwards and forwards, like every note
because my son was such a huge fan from the
day the record came out. So I am constantly hearing

(01:18:52):
this record Traveler, right, Traveler, and it's a great record,
and so I knew everything about the record.

Speaker 1 (01:19:01):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (01:19:02):
And then he comes out with all these nominations.

Speaker 5 (01:19:04):
That was.

Speaker 7 (01:19:05):
That was I will tell you that was a surprise.

Speaker 3 (01:19:08):
He's so beloved in the industry that a lot of
people in Nashville are like, this is the underdog guy
who's so good, that's unknown, we're voting for him.

Speaker 7 (01:19:16):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
Yeah, So he gets all the nominations and you go, okay, all.

Speaker 7 (01:19:20):
Right, So then we reach out to Chris. So then
we have a telephone call. It's myself, Chris Stapleton, justin
Timberlake and management. So the questions are, again, how much
time do we have? It's like how much do you want?
You can have whatever you want. This this is going
to be great. And then the other question was where

(01:19:42):
are we going to be in the show? And I said,
you know, were you you know, for most people don't know,
but the highest rated show, the highest rated points of
a television show are crossing the hours, shoe. I was like,
let's cross the first hour, I said, And then I
said are those the right answers? And Justin started laughing

(01:20:05):
and Chris and Justin's like, yeah, those are the right answers.

Speaker 3 (01:20:09):
So then you have to decide what to do. Now
who gets it because he was drinking away and it
was the dave down and stable and cover. Yes, help
me out, myke.

Speaker 5 (01:20:21):
D what's uh?

Speaker 2 (01:20:25):
How do you guys decide on the song tennessee tennesse whiskey?

Speaker 7 (01:20:27):
Thank you very much U. So they decided on that.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
So they and they come to you and say, hey,
this is what we like to do.

Speaker 7 (01:20:33):
This is what we like to do. And I say
you of course you got, of course you know this
is what we want to do. And but I tell
you what was interesting though, because you know, you know, uh,
as far as the look is concerned. You know a
lot of artists like Justin Timberlake. They bring in, you know,
tons of people from Los Angeles or wherever, and uh,

(01:20:57):
we got on the phone and we're like, this is
what we we all the three of us kind of
decided what we thought it ought to look like and uh,
and then we just did it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
Did you feel like it was special the first time
they did it together on stage?

Speaker 5 (01:21:11):
I did.

Speaker 7 (01:21:11):
I thought it was really great.

Speaker 3 (01:21:14):
Okay, there's a lot of it, but I did not
a few great tonight. Yes, I thought it was great.

Speaker 7 (01:21:20):
I did not. I did not know that. So we
do the rehearsal, it's it's great, Okay, it's obviously going
to be a moment. Justin came up to me at
the producer's table and said, don't worry about it. I'll

(01:21:41):
really bring it up tonight. I was like at fifty
it was like, oh, okay, great, thanks. You know, I'm like,
I'm already on to the next rehearsal. You know what
I'm saying. It's like And it was very polite of
him to do that and very professional. But yeah, but
they brought it up. Did as you know?

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
It was the thing when it was happening when it
was live.

Speaker 7 (01:22:03):
Yes, I did know it was. You could see even backstage,
you could feel the room changing.

Speaker 1 (01:22:09):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (01:22:09):
And then what we also started doing was seeing the
reaction of every of of the audience.

Speaker 2 (01:22:15):
I mean you can for me, it was mine blinde.

Speaker 7 (01:22:17):
It was crazy my mind.

Speaker 2 (01:22:18):
I was like, this is the great thing I've seen,
this mix.

Speaker 7 (01:22:21):
Of all of it. I just started telling the camera guys,
start shooting the audience, you know, because that was also
the story. Like you, I mean, you cut to anybody,
you cut to any artist, and you can it's there's
no it was genuine, genuine love, genuine genuine awe.

Speaker 5 (01:22:43):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:22:44):
I think there was all for justin Timberlake and going,
oh my gosh, it's justin Timberlake. And I think there
was love for Chris Stapleton.

Speaker 2 (01:22:54):
And a holy crap, like how have we not known
this guy until right now?

Speaker 5 (01:22:57):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:22:59):
Martha Earl, who is Kane Brown's manager, talks to me
here about how she got into management and how and
why Caane Brown caught her attention way back in twenty fifteen.
When you want to get into management at that age,
you know, twenties, early thirties, what is management?

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
What did it mean to you?

Speaker 5 (01:23:17):
Then?

Speaker 7 (01:23:18):
Oh my gosh, I had no idea.

Speaker 13 (01:23:19):
I mean, it's really I'm so fortunate because the first
artist that I managed was just up and coming, and
so he allowed me to learn alongside him. So I remember,
I thought we had him. He was opening up for
Rodney Atkins. Is his name's Greg Bates. He does he'd won.
He I did it for the girl, great songwriter and

(01:23:41):
he so we So he was opening for Rodney Atkins
like a casino in Biloxi, Mississippi. And I was like,
all right, we got a gig. And so I didn't know,
so I thought you had to advance the gig. And
so I don't know why I called the casino. I
should have just called Rodney Ack. Whatever you learned, I
called the casino in this like Grouchy Man was like,

(01:24:01):
you want to advance the gig? And I was like, yeah,
yes I do. And he was like, okay, well all right,
what do you need? And I was like, I have
no idea, and he goes, okay, how many dys do
you need?

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
I don't know what a d I is?

Speaker 13 (01:24:14):
He was, and then he just starts laughing, and so
then he just starts telling me, idea, is your guy
playing a guitar? Yes, okay, you need a d I
because he's going to plug his guitar.

Speaker 2 (01:24:24):
And is he singing?

Speaker 13 (01:24:26):
And I said, yes, okay, you need a microphone. Is
he bringing anyone else? No, okay, you just advanced your
first show.

Speaker 2 (01:24:32):
And I was like, all right, that's crazy. And so
I guess you go to your first show? Yeah, we go.

Speaker 13 (01:24:38):
We drove down there. I had I had a read
Folkswagen Jetta and drove. Although it's a long long drive
to Biloxi.

Speaker 2 (01:24:44):
Because it's water, it's gonna drive all the way down
the water way down there.

Speaker 5 (01:24:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:47):
Yeah, So you finished your first show?

Speaker 11 (01:24:49):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (01:24:50):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:24:50):
Is it a high? Is it your first amazing? You're like,
we just did it our first show. I just got
me fifteen percent and you know what, Yeah, I mean
it wasn't. I mean, if you do the math, it's
not it wasn't.

Speaker 7 (01:24:59):
I spent more.

Speaker 2 (01:25:00):
But that's okay. So what did you learn from your
time with Greg?

Speaker 3 (01:25:05):
If I were to say you get one lesson to
share with the world about your time with Greg as
a manager, what'd you learn?

Speaker 13 (01:25:11):
I would say that I learned that God, that's a
great question, I would say. During my time with him,
I learned how to be confident in being a manager
and be confident in asking questions and saying I don't know,
but I'm going to go figure it out. I'm going
to go find out. I'm going to go I'm going
to admit that I don't know the answer.

Speaker 2 (01:25:30):
To something.

Speaker 3 (01:25:32):
Because you were unexperienced. I'm assuming there was a fear
in admitting you were an experience because then people would
think of you as an experience.

Speaker 13 (01:25:40):
Yeah, I mean there was there was some of that,
but you know I did. I did ask a lot
of questions, and a lot of people helped me.

Speaker 2 (01:25:47):
You know, a lot of people.

Speaker 13 (01:25:48):
His booking agent, Mark Dennis, who works at CAA, he
was really helpful early days, the label, Jimmy Harnan Scott,
they were great.

Speaker 2 (01:25:56):
They were very help patient with me. So from Greg,
then what happens.

Speaker 13 (01:26:00):
So when I was working at another management company, so
I had we did the big machine deal, I knew
I want to do management full time. I went to
work with a management company and I really learned a
ton there. And that was with a manager named Jason
Nowen who manages Casey Musgraves and Dan and Shay and
a bunch of people. And so when I started working there,
they had just launched the k C album that first,

(01:26:23):
that amazing record, same trailer, Yeah, and I remember just
observing how they did it, and it was so different
than coming from a big, big machine where country radio
was that was the biggest promotion, the way you promote
an artist to more like media marketing with Casey, it
was just fascinating to watch it, and so I was

(01:26:45):
able to learn, Wow, there's different ways that you can
reach people, and that I think is something that I've
applied even now with Kine. We have to reach people
in different ways because not everybody's paying attention to a
New York Times article, but also not everybody is listening
to the radio all the time either.

Speaker 3 (01:27:00):
So working with Jason, what was your job there? Was
it to help on a bunch of artists? Did you
have your own artist?

Speaker 2 (01:27:07):
You were day to day on?

Speaker 13 (01:27:07):
So I had I was a day to day because
I brought Greg with me and I was a day
to day. And then Jason was that his company was
going through a tran I don't want to say too
much of his business, but it was going through a
transitional period. So I wasn't able to really sign anything.
And then so then I left because I was bored.

(01:27:27):
I wanted to work on more projects, and so I left,
and that would have been in January twenty fifteen. I
left and kind of said, I'm going to go out
on my own. I want to sign some more things
because I wasn't really able to do that at Sandbox,
which is his company. And so then I was just
kind of on my own and I signed some arts.
So just was working with some artists and I said,

(01:27:49):
and this sounds like a very Oprah thing to say,
but in January of twenty fifteen, I was like, I'm
going to say yes to everything because something is out there.

Speaker 2 (01:27:56):
I can feel it.

Speaker 13 (01:27:57):
I know there's something coming, and I I don't want
to miss it because I say no. So I was
approached by a guy named Jay Frank to be a
consultant for his company that he had, which was an
independent record label, and so I said, okay, yeah, all right,
I'll go try this out.

Speaker 2 (01:28:13):
Yes, I'll do it.

Speaker 13 (01:28:15):
Meanwhile managing a couple other little acts, and then I
got in there and Jay said, hey, also we have
this one guy. He's a country guy. We signed we
saw him online. His name's Kane Brown. He's from Chattanooga, Tennessee.
And Jay Jay admitted he said, I don't really know
if I know what to do with it. And I said, well,
let me meet him. And I met Cain and I
said to Jay, I said, everything else you're working on,

(01:28:35):
like respectfully, this is the thing.

Speaker 7 (01:28:38):
This is the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
And he was like, okay, all right, why what struck
you in a meeting with Kan? Well, Kane?

Speaker 13 (01:28:44):
The first met I had with him, Dan, you know,
Kane's shy. He's very very shy and so and he's
come out of his shell quite a bit as he's
gotten older, but he was very shy and didn't say much,
but he just has there is a he has a
charisma to him where when he walks in the room,
like you turn your head like you know what I mean.
Like he has like almost that like energy force field
energy that like draws you in. And so I was

(01:29:07):
he's an incredible singer, and he's obviously bi racial, and
I was fascinated by how he had marketed himself online
on Facebook. He marketed himself, you know, and he was
and he understood. He would say, you know, those early
videos when.

Speaker 2 (01:29:22):
He was going viral. I mean he was he was growing.

Speaker 13 (01:29:25):
He was growing twenty five thousand followers a day, and
we would watch it because he would post a video
and he would say I'm going to sing a cover
of check Yes or No by George Strait, and most
people were like this guy, you know, because country music
didn't look like Cam Brown in twenty fifteen, and that's
part of that's part of the attraction to me too,
is that country music didn't look like Came Brown and

(01:29:46):
now it does a little bit more.

Speaker 3 (01:29:47):
I think with you meeting Kane, I mean he maybe
he didn't, but he kind of had to say yes
to you too. Or did he just not have any
leverage at all and was like I'll take anybody that's
smart and knows what's going on.

Speaker 10 (01:29:58):
No, he did.

Speaker 13 (01:29:59):
He had another guy that was working with him at
the company, and and so I was always just very like, Hey,
if you ever need if you have a question, I
can help you answer it. And then one day he
sent me a text message. It's like classic Kate. He
sent me a text message and said, Hey, do you
want to be my person?

Speaker 2 (01:30:17):
And I was like, I pitto.

Speaker 13 (01:30:19):
A phone call was like dude, of course, yeah, I'll
be your person. He's like okay, and then that was
that was kind of that which I.

Speaker 3 (01:30:26):
Asked that question, asking why do you think Cain felt
like you are the right person for him?

Speaker 13 (01:30:34):
I think because even before I was his quote person,
I took him he wanted to hear some songs, and
he wanted to meet some songwriters. And I think he creatively,
I think he knew that I understood like musically where
he wanted to go and put and introduced him to
some people. And I never asked anything in return for that,

(01:30:57):
And then I don't know personality wise, like like we
always just kind of connected.

Speaker 3 (01:31:04):
Hey, thanks for listening to this special of the Bobby
Cast Behind the Scenes of the Music Industry, Part one.
Stay tuned for Part two, coming out later this week.
We got a lot more here, and then make sure
you're subscribed to the Bobbycast wherever you are listening to
this now, and then please rate at five stars.

Speaker 2 (01:31:21):
This has been a Bobby Cast production.

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#413 - Behind The Scenes of the Music Industry (Part 1)

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Host

Bobby Bones

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#413 - Behind The Scenes of the Music Industry (Part 1)