July 29, 2025 • 42 mins
This week, we're exploring connection and the beautiful, complicated web of relationships we build over a lifetime, with our July Reese's Book Club Author, Beck Dorey-Stein. Danielle and Beck dig into the author's own life and what caused her — after a wild ride as White House stenographer under President Obama — to upend everything and move across several states to the tundra of Maine. The convo also gets personal — for Danielle, too — when the pair talk about ambition, career, and the deep desire for a family. These themes all weave in and out of Beck's new book, Spectacular Things, which is about family, sisters, professional sports, and the question at the heart of it all: what would you give up for the person you love most?
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Danielle Robay (00:00):
Bookmarked by Reese's book Club is presented by Apple Books. Hi.
I'm Danielle Robe, and welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's book Club.
Today we're exploring ambition and sacrifice with Beck dorri Stein,
author of Spectacular Things, this month's Reese's book Club pick.
(00:23):
So let me ask you a question. What would you
give up for the person you love most?
Beck Dorey-Stein (00:28):
I think relationships between family members and between romantic partners,
between domestic partners and parents. I think there's rarely like
a fifty to fifty split. I think it's actually really
dangerous to give anything with the expectation of getting something back.
Danielle Robay (00:47):
I'm so excited for today's show because this is our
first Reese's book Club author interview, and guess what, it's
just the beginning. From now on, we're bringing you an
exclusive convo with the current Reese's book Club author, basically
our literary queen of the month. And who better to
kick things off than the brilliant Beck dory Stein, author
(01:08):
of Spectacular Things are July Reese's book Club pick. We
announced the title earlier this month, and Beck helped us
launch the celebrations. So let's keep the party golling you
know how sometimes you read a book and it feels
like the author cracked open your brain and like scooped
out a bunch of your messy, complicated thoughts with an
ice cream scooper and somehow turn them into something poetic
(01:29):
on the page. That's exactly how I felt reading Spectacular Things.
Beck does this very cool thing in her writing. She
weaves in these really philosophical questions, big ones, quiet ones,
the kind you might not say out loud, but the
ones you definitely think about at two am, like how
far is too far? When chasing a dream? Can love
(01:51):
survive ambition? And should it have to? And the one
I asked you a few minutes ago, what would you
give up for the person you love most?
What would you expect in return?
Her writing invites us to sit with these questions, not
solve them, and somehow, as you watch her characters wrestle
with them, you end up seeing these little pieces of yourself.
(02:15):
And maybe that's because Beck puts pieces of herself.
In her characters too.
She first made waves with her best selling memoir From
the Corner of the Oval, and then she wrote a
novel titled Rock the Boat, and her newest book, Baby
Is fiction that feels like real life. It's set on
the soccer field, and it's about legacy and pressure and
the cost of ambition. Spectacular Things follows two sisters and
(02:39):
their mother, each chasing their own version of greatness in
the high stakes world of women's soccer, and as their
lives twist together and a part, it becomes a story
of what we inherit, what we sacrifice, and what it
really takes to choose yourself. Not in a tidy, instagram
ready way, but in a funny, honest, messy way. So
(03:03):
whether you devoured this book or you're just here for
a great conversation, you're in the right place.
Let's turn the page with Beck. Dorri stein Beck, Welcome
back to Bookmark.
Beck Dorey-Stein (03:15):
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Danielle Robay (03:17):
I missed you.
I'm glad you're back, and we're gonna get into all
the juicy details this time. But first, I know that
before you were a novelist, you worked in the White
House as a stenographer, which basically means you were the
silent MVP, making sure everyone gets everything captured word for word.
And I heard at one point that you worked up
the courage to give President Obama a birthday card.
(03:38):
He's a Leo. In case anyone was curious.
How do you pick a birthday card for the leader
of the free world?
Beck Dorey-Stein (03:44):
Back it's so much more embarrassing than that, because that
is an impossible question. Hallmark doesn't cut it. I don't
know if what I did did cut it. But basically,
I found this really cool photo on eBay and it
spanned three generations of incredible basketball players, and it was
(04:05):
like someone at the end of their career or someone
before everyone knew who they were, but it was three
incredible players, and then I think the MVP of that
team was someone that we didn't even know. I buy
this photo and then I don't know what to do
with it. And then because I'm I don't have really
any extra funds, I use the back of a Manila
(04:27):
folder and use a gloustic and glue it to that
and then do like a nice write up on the
back saying like you, you know, like you're about to
start a new career, you're also at the beginning of
this career. You're also like the quiet MVP, and made
these parallels. But at the end of the day, it
looked as homemade.
Danielle Robay (04:45):
As it was but don't you feel like that was endearing?
Beck Dorey-Stein (04:49):
I think he must have found it very endearing because
then you know, I get an email from his secretary Feruel,
saying please come to the Oval. So I was like,
they definitely think this is like a security risk situation
and I'm going to be asked to leave the White House.
And instead he had written me a handwritten note just
saying like, thank you so much. I love how much
you love basketball, like see in the gym because we
(05:09):
would work out in the gym in the mornings together
when we were on the roads.
Danielle Robay (05:14):
So sweet.
Beck Dorey-Stein (05:15):
That's very much a reflection of who he is. And
yes he has a LEO and that guy does love
his birthday?
Danielle Robay (05:21):
Is Obama a birthday?
Beck Dorey-Stein (05:22):
B he's a birthday by I mean there was like
there was a specific place to put your birthday cards.
Really he did not put it there, But I think
I wasn't the only one who thought, you know what,
we should probably celebrate the leader of the free world
on his birthday.
Danielle Robay (05:39):
Well, it sounds like you celebrated it so well. I
love this story. I guarantee you it's saved somewhere.
Beck Dorey-Stein (05:46):
Let's hope. So, Danielle, I don't know, I don't know
how he feels about clutter.
Danielle Robay (05:52):
Okay, Well, from birthday cards to writing a whole entire
book back Spectacular Things was amazing, and I love how
you wove pieces of your life into the story. I'm
curious which character feels like you're voice dressed up in fiction.
Beck Dorey-Stein (06:09):
Well, they're all my children, right, So I think people
who are like, oh, I never let my life influence
my fiction, it's I don't know where it comes from. Then.
But so there's Liz Low, the mom who leaves her
life behind and moves to Maine. So there's a there's
an obvious parallel there. She left under pretty dire circumstances.
I left of my own volition, ready for a new adventure,
(06:31):
as did she. We both left bad relationships behind. We
have that in common. And Liz is kind of like
the most dead set into soccer in a way that's
healthy and unhealthy. And I can always relate to someone
where it's like I love it so much, maybe it's
too much. And then we've got Mielo, who's more academically minded.
(06:54):
She's the older sister, she's super responsible, she's way smarter
than I am, way more organized than I. Am, but
I can relate to the sense of responsibility she has
for her younger sister as an older sister myself. And
then we've got cricket Low, the baby of the family,
who is this like soccer phenom and just like kind
(07:16):
of a golden retriever in cleats, and I probably relate
the least to her, but which is why I love
her so much, because it's just like, what is it
like to be that good at a sport? And you know,
I don't know the statistics exactly, but it's something crazy.
How many professional athletes are the younger sibling because they
grow up and they're exposed to the sport earlier and
(07:37):
they're just desperate to catch up to their older siblings.
So it's a really high number of professional athletes or
actually younger siblings.
Danielle Robay (07:44):
Did you learn that when you did a whole deep dive?
Because I read that you did an insane amount of
research before you wrote this book.
Beck Dorey-Stein (07:52):
We can call it research. We can also call it
like really fun, indulgent light to medium heavy stalking. Because
I just love the US women's soccer team so much,
so it was a really great excuse to call up
their sports psychologists and consultant doctor Coleene Hacker and be like,
what would a goalkeeper think in this situation? And she
(08:13):
actually entertained my queries. And Laurie Lindsay, a former player
and current commentator, spoke to me multiple times, which again
we can call it research, but it was really just
a fan getting to geek out.
Danielle Robay (08:27):
Will you drop some pretty heavy hitting names in the book,
Mia Hamm, Christine Lilly And you know you mentioned Laurie Lindsay,
But a lot of these legends that you were talking to,
I can't imagine that they didn't sort of shift the
way that you were telling the story. Did any of
their real life stories inspire moments from the book?
Beck Dorey-Stein (08:48):
I mean, well, first of all, the namesakes, right, So
Cricket and Mia are both named after these professional soccer
players because they are so inspirational to Lislow, who doesn't
really have people in her own life that she admires
in the same way. But yeah, I mean Abby Wambach
and in particular, I think I read every memoir that
(09:10):
a professional women's soccer player has written, so I had
just read at the well sadly there aren't that many.
There's fewer than ten. I think there's more than five
and fewer than ten. But yeah, Abby's in particular I
found really interesting because she was so honest about how
she connected her prowess on the soccer field to feeling loved.
(09:34):
And I think that's a really fascinating complex situation to
find yourself in, where it's like, I'm so good at this,
but also is this the only reason why people love me?
Because what happens if I can't do it anymore.
Danielle Robay (09:45):
I've interviewed a lot of professional athletes and I would
say like eight out of ten times that's something that
they feel.
Beck Dorey-Stein (09:55):
Yeah, And it's crazy because a lot of us were
lucky enough to continue to do what we feel called
to do for as long as we want to do it.
And obviously, you know, to be a professional athlete, at best,
your career is very brief, so to know even as
you're starting that it's going to end well before you
want to. And also, you know, you talk to these
(10:15):
professional athletes who have just retired or considering retirement, and
they have gained so much wisdom on the court or
on the field, but now their bodies aren't quite as
quick as they used to be. But they're like, but
I'm so much more poised in those moments.
Danielle Robay (10:35):
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(11:20):
you won't want to miss this unforgettable weekend. So I felt,
I don't want to say personally attacked, but very connected
(11:42):
to your book and the big question around ambition and
success and family and what you have to sacrifice. I
used to have this limiting belief beck that if I
couldn't find my own personal success and find a partner
at the same time, I've since worked on that. But
(12:02):
I can imagine that your career has spanned so many
different iterations of you, and you are so ambitious. I'm
curious what you learned about ambition and sacrifice and what
it takes to make your dream a reality.
Beck Dorey-Stein (12:18):
Well, I feel you on the wanting to have a
really great career and a relationship. It drove me to
leave Philadelphia and all my friends and family during COVID
and drive what six states north to a tundra. That
is main because I had dated online for three years
(12:38):
in Philly and hadn't found anyone, and I was like,
I've clearly gone through everyone in this city. I must
move on. And then I had really just kind of
given up on the idea and was like, I'm going
to get a dog. I'm going to have these two cats,
and that's going to be my life. I'm going to
live by the ocean and write books and it's going
to be amazing. And then as soon as I had
made peace with that, I met my partner. But I
think relationships aren't in our control, and careers give the
(13:02):
illusion that they are in our control, and so it's
much easier to be like I'm just going to go
for it, and I think that's really important, but I
think it also you also have to leave space for
being open to possibility.
Danielle Robay (13:14):
What kind of sacrifice do you think you've had to
make to turn your dream into a reality. What has
been the cost of ambition for you? I have to
say I feel like a lot of the time I
am the least intelligent person in all my friend groups,
(13:35):
which is kind of amazing because I'm just surrounded by.
Beck Dorey-Stein (13:37):
These like really brilliant, wise women. And so when I
was leaving the White House, I was like, well, maybe
I'll try to write a book about this, because this
is crazy and I've been keeping notes the whole time,
But also like, I've got rent to pay and I
don't know what's happening next, so I need to try
to find a teaching job right away. And Sarah Perry,
(13:58):
a speechwriter at the White House, like, no, if you
want to do this, you have to go all in
because if you don't do it now, you're not going
to do it. And I remember exactly where we were standing,
and she looked so serious, and it was so helpful
because I was like, well, Sarah's saying it, it must
be true. And so I just kind of stopped everything
and put everything into it. So I think that's what
(14:20):
I tell people now, is that obviously I was at
a point in my life where I could kind of
drop everything and put all my eggs in that one basket.
But especially if you're interested in something more creative than
what you're getting to do professionally, now, it's like, carve
out ten minutes for yourself and just start from there.
Ten minutes in the morning, you've got it. I know
it probably doesn't seem like it, but you've got ten
minutes and then just go from there. And as far
(14:42):
as sacrifices I've made for the past three years, since
well really since I was pregnant, I've had to make
peace with the fact that They're going to be different
kind of seasons where I'm doing one thing more than
I would like to do, which is, you know, for
the last three years, I'm not sleeping as much as
I would like to, I'm not writing, I'm not reading
(15:04):
as much as I would like to. But I'm raising
this human who then is going to feed me in
a totally different way than ambition will. And so even
though it felt like sacrifice and I was very, very
stressed because I felt like it would never come back
to me. Now that it has, obviously it feels really
good to be like, Okay, that was a lot of
(15:24):
worry for nothing. Things are just going to ebb and flow,
maybe more than I want them to, because we are
not in control of our lives.
Danielle Robay (15:32):
When you say come back to me, do you mean
your ambition?
Beck Dorey-Stein (15:35):
I think the ambition never left. I think I had
to kind of wrestle with very ungracefully the fact that
it would take a minute. That I mean, because also
having a family is also very ambitious, and so I
think I kind of was just sort of on this
track of like, I love my partner, I want to
(15:56):
have a kid, and then I'll also write books, which
is like my ambition. You know, my ambition comes in
spines and pages, and it's like no, Also having a
family it's extremely ambitious. It requires the same thing. It
requires constant sacrifice. It's the biggest time commitment you can have,
and so I think it's really important to see both
of those things as ambitious and treat them as such.
Danielle Robay (16:19):
I was at dinner with a girlfriend of mine a
few months ago, and we were talking about if we
wanted to have kids. And I said, oh, I'm dying
to have kids, like I want them so badly, and
I'm actually trying to make life choices to work towards that.
And she said I can't have kids, like I would
only want kids if I could be a dad. And
(16:42):
I said, what what do you mean? And she goes,
I don't want to be a mom. I'd want to
show up as a dad, and so I don't want
to have kids. And in that moment I knew exactly
what she meant. But I think it's sort of exemplified
how often life and stories treat women's sacrifices as a given,
(17:04):
especially around ambition and career and family. In what ways
do you think that this book pushes back or adds
to a larger conversation.
Beck Dorey-Stein (17:13):
Well, it's interesting now that you say it, because I mean,
the dads leave much to be desired in this book.
So I think this is a celebration of women and
their sacrifices. I'm thinking about your what your friend said now,
I'm like, oh, man, it.
Danielle Robay (17:26):
Was kind of a light bulb moment for me.
Beck Dorey-Stein (17:28):
Yeah, but also in like this kind of I don't
want to say outdated, but like traditional way I mean,
I do think like the mental loads still for me
and for all of my female friends who are moms,
still falls more on us, unfortunately, but we also make
better decisions. But you still want to have kids. Oh yeah, okay, yeah,
(17:51):
but that's what I mean where it's like if that's
exactly how I was too. I was just like I
can't believe I'm not in control of this, and I
want it so badly. It's like, just tell me to
like run a certain amount of miles and a certain
amount of push ups, and like I'll do it. I'll
do whatever I have to do. And it's really hard,
especially like if you've always excelled in other arenas, if
(18:13):
you've excelled in school, where it's just like I just
have to work really hard and I can get it,
and it's so beyond frustrating to not be in control.
This is not relevant except for you and me right now,
But I like totally feeling on it because that's exactly
where I was, And I will say the only thing
that changed was my entire life by moving to Maine.
But also just like I had really I was just
(18:35):
like done because I was like, it's a pandemic I'm
not meeting anyone. I'm getting a dog. I'm getting a
psychotic puppy that I will have to train that I
will be up all night botty training, and that will
be my baby. And I think kind of figuring out
how to work with what I had was really helpful
(18:55):
in my sense of peace of like what I have
control over. And then who knows, I don't know. I
think you just have to come visit me.
Danielle Robay (19:02):
I feel like that's the answer.
Beck Dorey-Stein (19:04):
Yeah.
Danielle Robay (19:05):
But also there's the question that you shared with us
about like what would you give up for the person
you love most. There's a second part of that question,
and you say, what would you expect in return? That
second part is very interesting to me. What do you
mean by that?
Beck Dorey-Stein (19:22):
So I don't I think relationships between family members and
between romantic partners, even what I just said about the
mental load between domestic partners and parents, I think there's
rarely like a fifty fifty split, And so I think
it's actually really dangerous to give anything with the expectation
(19:47):
of getting something back. And I think oftentimes we do
it without even realizing we're doing it. We'll do something
kind and then maybe it's a matter of Oh, but
you wouldn't do this for me. And so I think
the dynamics between Cricket and Mia are really interesting because
Mia is always going to be the big sister, and
in a lot of ways, she's a surrogate mom, and
(20:09):
the mom makes the bigger sacrifice than the kids. So
then when things kind of come back around and Mia
hopes that Cricket will make this huge sacrifice, it's a
huge sacrifice. And also the sacrifices she made, she couldn't
have made them thinking that Cricket owed her for them.
So I think it's just a really complicated question and
(20:30):
I don't think there's a clear answer. I think it's
something that we all have to grapple with when we
do something, we have to make sure we're not expecting
something in return or else. You know, those aren't really
that's not genuine.
Danielle Robay (20:42):
It's not truly giving. I agree with you.
Yeah, I was really drawn to the way you use
symbolism in the book. Can you share the significance of
Liz's red ribbon and that hair tie around her wrist?
Beck Dorey-Stein (20:54):
Yeah, So Liz Low the mom has a complicated relationship
with her own mother. And yet I think even if
our moms are far from perfect, as Liz's mom is Lenora,
we still want their approval. It's really hard to escape that.
And so Lenora is like, here's a red ribbon to
(21:14):
put in your hair. That way everyone can see you
all the time. Leonora's got a bit of a narcissism problem.
And so Liz grows up wearing this red ribbon given
to her by her mother, who is not especially supportive.
And so then what's really cool is that then as
she continues to wear it, she gives it to her daughters,
and her daughters can just sort of love wearing a
(21:36):
red ribbon because their mom's love for them was just
so authentic and truthful, and so that it's cool. I think,
how what can be convoluted in one generation if it
gets passed down and it just comes from the heart,
it can become something totally new but still have this
(21:57):
tradition in.
Danielle Robay (21:58):
It and the idea that because I think, like, I
have a charm bracelet. Do you have anything that means
something to you from your family?
Beck Dorey-Stein (22:06):
Yeah, I've got Well, my mom actually gave me a
charm bracelet for like each book title. So there's like
a turtle for Rock, the boat. I think there's a
pencil for stenograph from the corner of the oval. But yeah,
tell me about your charm bracelet.
Danielle Robay (22:18):
Well, no, I first of all, thanks for sharing that.
That's very cute.
My mom had a charm bracelet and it did mean
something different to her, and then she gave it to me,
And so the idea that it means something different to
different generations is what I think I was really drawn
to and what you shared.
Beck Dorey-Stein (22:32):
Yeah, oh, total. I mean my mom's mom was a
triculated and it's so fun because one generation removed, I
can see all these these really beautiful things that she
taught my mom directly and indirectly that I just get
to benefit from without having to live through all the mess.
Danielle Robay (22:49):
I can imagine that a lot of readers are going
to connect to the generational aspect of this book. Would
you call it generational trauma generational patterns that you're exploring?
Beck Dorey-Stein (23:00):
I guess patterns if we're talking about soccer, and I
think Liz is pretty good at cutting things off quite dramatically,
but also loves the opportunity and the sparkle of soccer
and what that can do for her daughters in a
way that is both really helpful and inspirational and a
(23:23):
little bit problematic.
Danielle Robay (23:25):
For those who see themselves in the characters and see
some of even their own patterns in these characters. What
would you want to say to them?
Beck Dorey-Stein (23:34):
I would want to say, I'm going to echo what
Abby Wombo said, which is like, what is it giving
back to you? Like, when you're thinking about what you're
obsessed with, what will it give it back to you?
Because it's really those relationships and the people and the
connection between us, that's what kind of saves us. I mean,
I'm so excited I got to write this book. I'm
(23:56):
very proud of it. It was a long time coming.
I started before I was pregnant and now I've got
a three year old. But writing this book was very
helpful for me in processing my own thoughts. But it
was never going to love me back the way that
everyone who supported me through the drafts, after drafts, after drafts,
(24:17):
after drafts, the way that those people loved me and
supported me.
Danielle Robay (24:20):
That's so profound, because no matter what job you do,
it's always about the people.
Beck Dorey-Stein (24:25):
Yeah, I don't miss the White House. I really miss
my friends from the White House. I really miss being
surrounded by people who share the same values I have.
It's the hardest thing about being a writer is that
I'm not around nearly as many people.
Danielle Robay (24:38):
How do you solve for that? The dog park?
Beck Dorey-Stein (24:41):
Yeah, you nailed it. Yeah you can definitely tell if
I haven't been to the dog beach in a few days,
because then I'll just like corner the person at the
coffee shop when they're just trying to make coffee for
a long line of people, and I'll just be asking
them way too many questions about like their parents in
a way that is not appropriate.
Danielle Robay (25:00):
You're so good at asking questions. It's one of one
of your many gifts.
Okay, I'm going to ask a question that's a little
bit of a spoiler. So we learn that Liz dies
early on, and it's sudden and tragic, but then a
few pages in she's not really gone, and she shows
back up guiding and even influencing her daughter's lives. Not
just me, all of our producers, the whole team needs
(25:22):
to know what is Liz?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Is she a ghost? Is she a memory? A spirit guide?
Beck Dorey-Stein (25:28):
I think I guess out of those like, she's like
a spirit guide. I'm fortunate enough to still have both
of my parents. A lot of my friends have lost
one or both already and they've all talked about you know,
we see the signs of them, and also what are
we doing when we feel most connected to them something
that they also loved. So it makes sense that Cricket
sees her mom when she's in goal because there was
(25:50):
such the bond between them, and for me it takes
a little longer, and then when she does show up,
it's like all the more beautiful. But me, it's very
much like there's certain things that connect us in such
an intense, almost three dimensional way that I do think
(26:10):
Cricket sees her when she sees her on the soccer field,
it's like I know exactly what she would say in
this moment because she's been here for so many of
these games. You know, the script is already written. I
know what she would do in this situation.
Danielle Robay (26:23):
Is that why you chose to keep her present?
Beck Dorey-Stein (26:25):
Yeah? I just I don't like the idea of someone
dying and then they're just gone, especially again when we're
talking about a context that they love. So there's no
way that Cricket is going to play soccer and not
think about her mom. And there's no way that Mia
is going to start experiencing motherhood and not think about
(26:47):
what her own mom went through.
Danielle Robay (26:49):
Another thing that came up for me was the playlist,
and specifically the song get Low Fly High. It pops
up again and again, almost like a mantra, but then
when I went to look it up, it doesn't actually exist.
I kind of thought it was real. It's not real,
So where does the song come from.
Beck Dorey-Stein (27:06):
I'm only telling you this because I like you so
much too, and it's so embarrassing. That's why I'm hesitant.
But whatever, we're doing it okay. So originally their last
name is low, so I thought I was gonna be
like get low, like three six nine, damn your fun.
And then I listened to the lyrics and I was like,
this is not the song, and so I had to
(27:27):
make up my own. But it started as that, and
then once I kind of like dug a little deeper,
it's like this would not like windows the Wall, Like
it's not this, but it's something very close to this.
But I was just so excited about like get low
being their last name.
Danielle Robay (27:41):
But yeah, uh yeah, I try so hard not to
giggle to ruin the audio.
Through the window. Yep, that's incredible in your mind. Didn't
have the same rhythm.
Beck Dorey-Stein (27:55):
Sure did. Like if I was writing and then I,
you know, was done for the day, that would be
the song I would blast. But it just was not.
The lyrics just don't go with the low women as
much as I want them to, which then I was like,
even trying to justify it. I was like, well, you know,
Liz low Is a is a child of the eighties
(28:15):
and nineties. You know she would if she would be
where I am where I'm just like, this is great,
but no, like, sweat dripping down my balls is like
not the vibe I was going for.
Danielle Robay (28:26):
Beck I love you so much.
I'm not going to ask you to sing it because
I love you so much, but I am singing it in.
My own brain right now.
You yeah, I will tell you that that's not what
you were expecting. It's actually I was thinking more like
I believe I can fly. It was it was giving
me inspirational, But sweat dripping down my balls feels inspirational
(28:51):
in a different way.
Beck Dorey-Stein (28:52):
Well, think about how much of a pump up song
that has to be that these women are going into
the Atlantic Ocean in the winter in Maine. True, it's
it's got to be quite the pump up. It's the
polar base.
Danielle Robay (29:05):
Yeah, yeah, Okay, So I actually haven't read a lot
of stories that talk about ambition as explicitly as Spectacular
Things does, and I've always been very proud to be
a driven woman. I can tell that you are the
exact same way. One of the takeaways from the characters
that I felt akin to my life, I guess, is
(29:28):
that it's less about the actual dream or getting it.
It's really about who you become by pursuing it.
And it's sort of like love to.
Me, because when you love someone, you're willing to look
at yourself in the mirror and deal with the worst
parts of you because you want that person and you
(29:48):
love that relationship. And so I think of dreams the
same way, like you're willing to fight for them because
you want this thing so bad, and so you become
the best and worst versions of yourself trying to get it.
You've now experienced big love and big dreams, do you
feel like you were willing to go after both in
(30:10):
the same way.
Beck Dorey-Stein (30:11):
I think I was willing and gunning for a long time,
and then having a baby knocked me on my butt
to such a degree it was very helpful as far
as prioritizing what actually mattered and to go back to
what you said where ambition is a lot like love
(30:34):
and because we can do spoilers here, I think it's
so much why Cricket finally allows herself to fall in
love with Sloan. They both have the same immense ambition,
and in some ways Sloan is a little bit more evolved,
only because she got knocked on her butt and got
injured and so she realized, I keep wanting more, and
(30:56):
it's just sort of this idea of like another world,
cup isn't going to who I am, and she's really
helpful in guiding Cricket into that same revelation. But I
also think it's why they fall in love is because
ambition is so much like love that it's like Cricket
can kindly be like, you know what, I'm not actually
(31:16):
competing with you. I've got to love you with both
arms around you because I think, yeah, ambition and love.
But like ambition doesn't love you back. Love loves you back,
and love comes from other people. Ambition comes from our
you know, Ambition is very tricky.
Danielle Robay (31:34):
Do you think that ambition can come from a healthy
place or do you think it's like it just stems
from all the insecurity.
Beck Dorey-Stein (31:41):
I don't, I know, because I love ambitious people like
I don't think it's a bad thing. I think it's
just a thing that sometimes needs to be hip checked.
Because what's the opposite of ambition complacency. I don't want
to be complacent. I think that takes all the curiosity
out of our lives. I think like ambition and curiosity,
(32:02):
it's like, what would happen if I kept going that's
so fun? Like what's going to happen if I keep
pushing myself? So it's just a sort of you know,
it's Cricket doing the beep test, where it's like, yeah,
let's see how far I can go, but also like
let's not kill ourselves.
Danielle Robay (32:32):
Beck Who did you write this book for?
Beck Dorey-Stein (32:34):
I think I always write for me first, because I'm
trying to figure out what I'm trying to say and
what matters to me. In another way, it's like I
wrote it for all of my former teammates, everyone who
just like loves soccer but also loved me and supported me.
(32:55):
Because again, these teammates, it's like, I can't overestimate what
an impact they've had on me. And same with some
of my best coaches, Like I still to this day
will think Rose Miller, my club soccer coach from middle school,
was like, leave your heart on the field. And it's like, Okay,
I'm no longer playing soccer, but like what am I
doing where it's like I can either do this at
(33:16):
fifty percent or I could do this at one hundred percent.
And that's Rose telling me that as a ten.
Danielle Robay (33:22):
Year old, right, Like, you're writing this book and it
probably took you much longer than expected, and you're thinking, Okay,
just leave your heart on the field.
Beck Dorey-Stein (33:30):
Yeah. And also another Rose ism is like the bruises
will hurt less tomorrow if you give it you're all today.
And then from doctor Coline Hacker, who I got to
interview for this book, when I asked her about cricket
the goalkeeper, I was like, how would she not just
be like stressed out over the pressure, and she was like,
because she's trained, and so she needs to trust her
(33:53):
training and also see this as an opportunity to like
just prove that she has put in the work. And
so I think that's really helpful, probably for you and
definitely for me. Where it's like anytime I get nervous
about a situation, like oh am I gonna blow it,
It's like, no, it's just an opportunity. Like I've been
training for this. I'm good.
Danielle Robay (34:14):
I had a coach one time that would always say,
is this all you're going to show yourself today?
Beck Dorey-Stein (34:19):
Which sports did you play?
Danielle Robay (34:21):
Not dance team?
Beck Dorey-Stein (34:24):
Why are you saying it like that?
Danielle Robay (34:26):
Is that a sport?
Beck Dorey-Stein (34:27):
Yes, it's a sport.
Danielle Robay (34:30):
I'm like, I'm a girl in the gym, but this
is about you.
This is not about me.
Beck Dorey-Stein (34:34):
I don't but I do, like, no, nope, nope. Let
me just say I knew you did something very competitive,
and dance team is totally a sport. I ken't like
it's kind of to me. It's like swimming, where I'm like,
it's one hundred percent of sport and I know right
now I'm not good.
Danielle Robay (34:48):
At Yeah, I'm not good either, just to let you know.
I'm like the worst.
But you had a coach, coach. I think I'm obsessed
with coaches. I read like every book that any sports
coach has written. There's so much wisdom that comes from
there and the sports analogy to life analogy just could
(35:09):
not be overestimated.
Beck Dorey-Stein (35:10):
I mean, I can never meet Emma Hayes, the current
head coach of the US women's national team, because I'm
so deeply in love with her and i just want
her to be my coach. And also what's funny is
I feel like every former player might also feel that way.
When you see them talk about Emma Hayes, they're like, wow,
I could have used an Emma.
Danielle Robay (35:31):
Hayes for those of us who didn't have quite an
Emma Hayes.
Would you hope that Spectacular Things leaves readers thinking about
when they close the book and read the last page.
Beck Dorey-Stein (35:43):
I hope they think about someone they love they haven't
spoken to in a little bit, and they feel compelled
to pick up the phone and like, hopefully ideally not text,
but actually just pick up the phone because I think
it's getting You're an easier to lose connection with people
who aren't directly in front of us. That's what happens
(36:05):
to Cricket and Mia. And when we see we're hearing something,
you're just hearing someone's voice that we love. It changes everything.
Danielle Robay (36:13):
So in the theme of navigating sacrifice for dreams. I'm
really curious what you would whisper to young Beck before
she set out on her dreams.
Beck Dorey-Stein (36:23):
The same thing I tell myself when I'm doing a
road race now and I'm just like hooking it and
I'm like why did I do this? Which is just
like this is fun? And are you having fun? Because
this is supposed to be fun? So gut check fun good,
let's keep going.
Danielle Robay (36:40):
Okay, I have to ask you about something that you've
bookmarked this week. Also, do you use a bookmark or
are you a page like dog ear person?
Beck Dorey-Stein (36:49):
No, I won't dog ear. That was said so snobby,
it was great.
Danielle Robay (36:54):
Oh I would never dog ear.
Beck Dorey-Stein (36:56):
I would never. I have a lot of respect for
the page. I'm pretty nuts about it. That being said,
I almost never have a bookmark on hand. I feel
like they all they're like dog bags. They all accumulate
in one place that is never where I need them
to be.
Danielle Robay (37:09):
So that which number page you're on?
Beck Dorey-Stein (37:13):
No, I'll like writ I usually have some piece of
paper and I'll just rip. So yeah, I have no
problem denigrating like normal pieces of paper, just not pages
in a book.
Danielle Robay (37:21):
Okay, so what if you bookmarked this week?
Beck Dorey-Stein (37:24):
I actually I wanted to bookmark just an epiphany I
had in the car, which is I try to write letters.
Letters often take a little bit more time than I
have right now, but I love to send like a
random card or a random postcard. And so what I
realize this week is that if I keep stamps in
my center console, I can always just send it when
(37:47):
I want to, because I keep stamps in a drawer,
but then I forget and it doesn't happen. So now
I keep stamps in my center console. That literally was
an epiphany I had this week, and it just game changing.
I like, I'm now just freewheeling letters and postcards.
Danielle Robay (38:03):
That's so awesome.
Beck Dorey-Stein (38:04):
My son has gotten very good at opening the mailbox.
Danielle Robay (38:09):
Not to be on like a literary high horse, but
I do feel like letters more than a gift, more
than anything. When I receive a letter, I'm like, oh,
I feel so thought of. It's I think that's so
beautiful that you do that.
Beck Dorey-Stein (38:22):
Yeah, I love receiving them, and it's also just a
gift to send them out because it's like I just
got to think about you, and I get to think
about you in like two days. When you get this
little envelope in the mail.
Danielle Robay (38:32):
Okay, back, we're going to have some fun.
We do this thing called speed read and it's sixty seconds.
I'm going to ask you as many questions as I
can in this time.
Okay, you look alarmed.
Beck Dorey-Stein (38:48):
I'm a competitive person, Daniel, Let's do it.
Danielle Robay (38:50):
Hell yeah, get Low Fly High. Let's go. Okay.
A song that best describes spectacular things?
Beck Dorey-Stein (38:59):
Will you just get Low Fly High?
Danielle Robay (39:01):
What's a book you'd wish you'd.
Written tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow? Which celebrity would narrate
your memoir?
Beck Dorey-Stein (39:08):
Emma Stone?
Danielle Robay (39:09):
Oh, favorite book to recommend?
Beck Dorey-Stein (39:11):
Demon Copperhead.
Danielle Robay (39:13):
What book shaped the way you see the world?
Beck Dorey-Stein (39:15):
Probably all of Judy Bloom.
Danielle Robay (39:18):
What's a literary trope you'll defend with your life.
Beck Dorey-Stein (39:21):
I guess a new person comes down.
Danielle Robay (39:24):
That's such a good one for you. Okay, what's your
red flag reading habit?
Beck Dorey-Stein (39:28):
I will say my good friend Emma told me that
she skims full pages or like, if she's like stressed,
if it's like a high pressure moment in a book,
she'll just skim through to the end of the chapter
to find out. And I'm like, I can't believe I'm
friends with a psychopath.
Danielle Robay (39:48):
Ok I have to ask you one more because I
can't end on that. What's the best book You've never read?
Beck Dorey-Stein (39:55):
The best book I've never read probably Brothers mas of
only because that's my brother's favorite book and I'm always
trying to keep up with him still even though we
are very old. It's a great He loves that book,
and I'm like, I haven't read it, and I really
should because he loves it so much and he reads
a lot.
Danielle Robay (40:13):
I love it.
Beck.
Beck Dorey-Stein (40:14):
You are so smart and so much fun and so real.
Danielle Robay (40:18):
Thank you for putting so many great things into the
world that really make people question and feel seen.
Beck Dorey-Stein (40:25):
Thank you so much, Danielle. This was truly a treat.
Thank you very very much.
Danielle Robay (40:29):
I can't wait to see you in Maine.
And if you want a little bit more from us,
come hang with us on socials. We're at Reese's Book
Club on Instagram serving up books, vibes and behind the
scenes magic. And I'm at Danielle Robe Roba y come
say hi and d have me.
And if you want to go nineties on us, call us.
(40:50):
Okay, our phone line is open, so call now at
one five zero one two nine to one three three
seven nine. That's one five oh one, one two nine, one, three, three,
seven nine, share your literary hot takes, book recommendations, questions
about the monthly pick, or let us know what you
(41:10):
think about the episode you just heard. And who knows,
you might just hear yourself in our next episode, so
don't be shy, give us a ring, and of course,
make sure to follow Bookmarked by Reese's book Club on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your
shows until then, see you in the next chapter. Bookmarked
(41:31):
is a production of Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcast. It's
executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and me Danielle Robe. Production
is by ACAST Creative Studios. Our producers are Matty Foley,
Brittany Martinez, Sarah Schleid, and Darby Masters. Our production assistant
is Avery Loftus. Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder are the
(41:52):
executive producers for A Cast Creative Studios. Maureen Polo and
Reese Witherspoon are the executive producers for Hello Sunshine. Olga kaminwa,
Kristin Perla and Ashley Rappaport are associate producers for Reese's
book Club. Ali Perry and Lauren Hansen are the executive
producers for iHeart Podcasts, and Tim Palazola is our showrunner.
Bookmarked by Reese's book Club is presented by Apple Books. Hi.
I'm Danielle Robe, and welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's book Club.
Today we're exploring ambition and sacrifice with Beck dorri Stein,
author of Spectacular Things, this month's Reese's book Club pick.
(00:23):
So let me ask you a question. What would you
give up for the person you love most?
Beck Dorey-Stein (00:28):
I think relationships between family members and between romantic partners,
between domestic partners and parents. I think there's rarely like
a fifty to fifty split. I think it's actually really
dangerous to give anything with the expectation of getting something back.
Danielle Robay (00:47):
I'm so excited for today's show because this is our
first Reese's book Club author interview, and guess what, it's
just the beginning. From now on, we're bringing you an
exclusive convo with the current Reese's book Club author, basically
our literary queen of the month. And who better to
kick things off than the brilliant Beck dory Stein, author
(01:08):
of Spectacular Things are July Reese's book Club pick. We
announced the title earlier this month, and Beck helped us
launch the celebrations. So let's keep the party golling you
know how sometimes you read a book and it feels
like the author cracked open your brain and like scooped
out a bunch of your messy, complicated thoughts with an
ice cream scooper and somehow turn them into something poetic
(01:29):
on the page. That's exactly how I felt reading Spectacular Things.
Beck does this very cool thing in her writing. She
weaves in these really philosophical questions, big ones, quiet ones,
the kind you might not say out loud, but the
ones you definitely think about at two am, like how
far is too far? When chasing a dream? Can love
(01:51):
survive ambition? And should it have to? And the one
I asked you a few minutes ago, what would you
give up for the person you love most?
What would you expect in return?
Her writing invites us to sit with these questions, not
solve them, and somehow, as you watch her characters wrestle
with them, you end up seeing these little pieces of yourself.
(02:15):
And maybe that's because Beck puts pieces of herself.
In her characters too.
She first made waves with her best selling memoir From
the Corner of the Oval, and then she wrote a
novel titled Rock the Boat, and her newest book, Baby
Is fiction that feels like real life. It's set on
the soccer field, and it's about legacy and pressure and
the cost of ambition. Spectacular Things follows two sisters and
(02:39):
their mother, each chasing their own version of greatness in
the high stakes world of women's soccer, and as their
lives twist together and a part, it becomes a story
of what we inherit, what we sacrifice, and what it
really takes to choose yourself. Not in a tidy, instagram
ready way, but in a funny, honest, messy way. So
(03:03):
whether you devoured this book or you're just here for
a great conversation, you're in the right place.
Let's turn the page with Beck. Dorri stein Beck, Welcome
back to Bookmark.
Beck Dorey-Stein (03:15):
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Danielle Robay (03:17):
I missed you.
I'm glad you're back, and we're gonna get into all
the juicy details this time. But first, I know that
before you were a novelist, you worked in the White
House as a stenographer, which basically means you were the
silent MVP, making sure everyone gets everything captured word for word.
And I heard at one point that you worked up
the courage to give President Obama a birthday card.
(03:38):
He's a Leo. In case anyone was curious.
How do you pick a birthday card for the leader
of the free world?
Beck Dorey-Stein (03:44):
Back it's so much more embarrassing than that, because that
is an impossible question. Hallmark doesn't cut it. I don't
know if what I did did cut it. But basically,
I found this really cool photo on eBay and it
spanned three generations of incredible basketball players, and it was
(04:05):
like someone at the end of their career or someone
before everyone knew who they were, but it was three
incredible players, and then I think the MVP of that
team was someone that we didn't even know. I buy
this photo and then I don't know what to do
with it. And then because I'm I don't have really
any extra funds, I use the back of a Manila
(04:27):
folder and use a gloustic and glue it to that
and then do like a nice write up on the
back saying like you, you know, like you're about to
start a new career, you're also at the beginning of
this career. You're also like the quiet MVP, and made
these parallels. But at the end of the day, it
looked as homemade.
Danielle Robay (04:45):
As it was but don't you feel like that was endearing?
Beck Dorey-Stein (04:49):
I think he must have found it very endearing because
then you know, I get an email from his secretary Feruel,
saying please come to the Oval. So I was like,
they definitely think this is like a security risk situation
and I'm going to be asked to leave the White House.
And instead he had written me a handwritten note just
saying like, thank you so much. I love how much
you love basketball, like see in the gym because we
(05:09):
would work out in the gym in the mornings together
when we were on the roads.
Danielle Robay (05:14):
So sweet.
Beck Dorey-Stein (05:15):
That's very much a reflection of who he is. And
yes he has a LEO and that guy does love
his birthday?
Danielle Robay (05:21):
Is Obama a birthday?
Beck Dorey-Stein (05:22):
B he's a birthday by I mean there was like
there was a specific place to put your birthday cards.
Really he did not put it there, But I think
I wasn't the only one who thought, you know what,
we should probably celebrate the leader of the free world
on his birthday.
Danielle Robay (05:39):
Well, it sounds like you celebrated it so well. I
love this story. I guarantee you it's saved somewhere.
Beck Dorey-Stein (05:46):
Let's hope. So, Danielle, I don't know, I don't know
how he feels about clutter.
Danielle Robay (05:52):
Okay, Well, from birthday cards to writing a whole entire
book back Spectacular Things was amazing, and I love how
you wove pieces of your life into the story. I'm
curious which character feels like you're voice dressed up in fiction.
Beck Dorey-Stein (06:09):
Well, they're all my children, right, So I think people
who are like, oh, I never let my life influence
my fiction, it's I don't know where it comes from. Then.
But so there's Liz Low, the mom who leaves her
life behind and moves to Maine. So there's a there's
an obvious parallel there. She left under pretty dire circumstances.
I left of my own volition, ready for a new adventure,
(06:31):
as did she. We both left bad relationships behind. We
have that in common. And Liz is kind of like
the most dead set into soccer in a way that's
healthy and unhealthy. And I can always relate to someone
where it's like I love it so much, maybe it's
too much. And then we've got Mielo, who's more academically minded.
(06:54):
She's the older sister, she's super responsible, she's way smarter
than I am, way more organized than I. Am, but
I can relate to the sense of responsibility she has
for her younger sister as an older sister myself. And
then we've got cricket Low, the baby of the family,
who is this like soccer phenom and just like kind
(07:16):
of a golden retriever in cleats, and I probably relate
the least to her, but which is why I love
her so much, because it's just like, what is it
like to be that good at a sport? And you know,
I don't know the statistics exactly, but it's something crazy.
How many professional athletes are the younger sibling because they
grow up and they're exposed to the sport earlier and
(07:37):
they're just desperate to catch up to their older siblings.
So it's a really high number of professional athletes or
actually younger siblings.
Danielle Robay (07:44):
Did you learn that when you did a whole deep dive?
Because I read that you did an insane amount of
research before you wrote this book.
Beck Dorey-Stein (07:52):
We can call it research. We can also call it
like really fun, indulgent light to medium heavy stalking. Because
I just love the US women's soccer team so much,
so it was a really great excuse to call up
their sports psychologists and consultant doctor Coleene Hacker and be like,
what would a goalkeeper think in this situation? And she
(08:13):
actually entertained my queries. And Laurie Lindsay, a former player
and current commentator, spoke to me multiple times, which again
we can call it research, but it was really just
a fan getting to geek out.
Danielle Robay (08:27):
Will you drop some pretty heavy hitting names in the book,
Mia Hamm, Christine Lilly And you know you mentioned Laurie Lindsay,
But a lot of these legends that you were talking to,
I can't imagine that they didn't sort of shift the
way that you were telling the story. Did any of
their real life stories inspire moments from the book?
Beck Dorey-Stein (08:48):
I mean, well, first of all, the namesakes, right, So
Cricket and Mia are both named after these professional soccer
players because they are so inspirational to Lislow, who doesn't
really have people in her own life that she admires
in the same way. But yeah, I mean Abby Wambach
and in particular, I think I read every memoir that
(09:10):
a professional women's soccer player has written, so I had
just read at the well sadly there aren't that many.
There's fewer than ten. I think there's more than five
and fewer than ten. But yeah, Abby's in particular I
found really interesting because she was so honest about how
she connected her prowess on the soccer field to feeling loved.
(09:34):
And I think that's a really fascinating complex situation to
find yourself in, where it's like, I'm so good at this,
but also is this the only reason why people love me?
Because what happens if I can't do it anymore.
Danielle Robay (09:45):
I've interviewed a lot of professional athletes and I would
say like eight out of ten times that's something that
they feel.
Beck Dorey-Stein (09:55):
Yeah, And it's crazy because a lot of us were
lucky enough to continue to do what we feel called
to do for as long as we want to do it.
And obviously, you know, to be a professional athlete, at best,
your career is very brief, so to know even as
you're starting that it's going to end well before you
want to. And also, you know, you talk to these
(10:15):
professional athletes who have just retired or considering retirement, and
they have gained so much wisdom on the court or
on the field, but now their bodies aren't quite as
quick as they used to be. But they're like, but
I'm so much more poised in those moments.
Danielle Robay (10:35):
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(11:20):
you won't want to miss this unforgettable weekend. So I felt,
I don't want to say personally attacked, but very connected
(11:42):
to your book and the big question around ambition and
success and family and what you have to sacrifice. I
used to have this limiting belief beck that if I
couldn't find my own personal success and find a partner
at the same time, I've since worked on that. But
(12:02):
I can imagine that your career has spanned so many
different iterations of you, and you are so ambitious. I'm
curious what you learned about ambition and sacrifice and what
it takes to make your dream a reality.
Beck Dorey-Stein (12:18):
Well, I feel you on the wanting to have a
really great career and a relationship. It drove me to
leave Philadelphia and all my friends and family during COVID
and drive what six states north to a tundra. That
is main because I had dated online for three years
(12:38):
in Philly and hadn't found anyone, and I was like,
I've clearly gone through everyone in this city. I must
move on. And then I had really just kind of
given up on the idea and was like, I'm going
to get a dog. I'm going to have these two cats,
and that's going to be my life. I'm going to
live by the ocean and write books and it's going
to be amazing. And then as soon as I had
made peace with that, I met my partner. But I
think relationships aren't in our control, and careers give the
(13:02):
illusion that they are in our control, and so it's
much easier to be like I'm just going to go
for it, and I think that's really important, but I
think it also you also have to leave space for
being open to possibility.
Danielle Robay (13:14):
What kind of sacrifice do you think you've had to
make to turn your dream into a reality. What has
been the cost of ambition for you? I have to
say I feel like a lot of the time I
am the least intelligent person in all my friend groups,
(13:35):
which is kind of amazing because I'm just surrounded by.
Beck Dorey-Stein (13:37):
These like really brilliant, wise women. And so when I
was leaving the White House, I was like, well, maybe
I'll try to write a book about this, because this
is crazy and I've been keeping notes the whole time,
But also like, I've got rent to pay and I
don't know what's happening next, so I need to try
to find a teaching job right away. And Sarah Perry,
(13:58):
a speechwriter at the White House, like, no, if you
want to do this, you have to go all in
because if you don't do it now, you're not going
to do it. And I remember exactly where we were standing,
and she looked so serious, and it was so helpful
because I was like, well, Sarah's saying it, it must
be true. And so I just kind of stopped everything
and put everything into it. So I think that's what
(14:20):
I tell people now, is that obviously I was at
a point in my life where I could kind of
drop everything and put all my eggs in that one basket.
But especially if you're interested in something more creative than
what you're getting to do professionally, now, it's like, carve
out ten minutes for yourself and just start from there.
Ten minutes in the morning, you've got it. I know
it probably doesn't seem like it, but you've got ten
minutes and then just go from there. And as far
(14:42):
as sacrifices I've made for the past three years, since
well really since I was pregnant, I've had to make
peace with the fact that They're going to be different
kind of seasons where I'm doing one thing more than
I would like to do, which is, you know, for
the last three years, I'm not sleeping as much as
I would like to, I'm not writing, I'm not reading
(15:04):
as much as I would like to. But I'm raising
this human who then is going to feed me in
a totally different way than ambition will. And so even
though it felt like sacrifice and I was very, very
stressed because I felt like it would never come back
to me. Now that it has, obviously it feels really
good to be like, Okay, that was a lot of
(15:24):
worry for nothing. Things are just going to ebb and flow,
maybe more than I want them to, because we are
not in control of our lives.
Danielle Robay (15:32):
When you say come back to me, do you mean
your ambition?
Beck Dorey-Stein (15:35):
I think the ambition never left. I think I had
to kind of wrestle with very ungracefully the fact that
it would take a minute. That I mean, because also
having a family is also very ambitious, and so I
think I kind of was just sort of on this
track of like, I love my partner, I want to
(15:56):
have a kid, and then I'll also write books, which
is like my ambition. You know, my ambition comes in
spines and pages, and it's like no, Also having a
family it's extremely ambitious. It requires the same thing. It
requires constant sacrifice. It's the biggest time commitment you can have,
and so I think it's really important to see both
of those things as ambitious and treat them as such.
Danielle Robay (16:19):
I was at dinner with a girlfriend of mine a
few months ago, and we were talking about if we
wanted to have kids. And I said, oh, I'm dying
to have kids, like I want them so badly, and
I'm actually trying to make life choices to work towards that.
And she said I can't have kids, like I would
only want kids if I could be a dad. And
(16:42):
I said, what what do you mean? And she goes,
I don't want to be a mom. I'd want to
show up as a dad, and so I don't want
to have kids. And in that moment I knew exactly
what she meant. But I think it's sort of exemplified
how often life and stories treat women's sacrifices as a given,
(17:04):
especially around ambition and career and family. In what ways
do you think that this book pushes back or adds
to a larger conversation.
Beck Dorey-Stein (17:13):
Well, it's interesting now that you say it, because I mean,
the dads leave much to be desired in this book.
So I think this is a celebration of women and
their sacrifices. I'm thinking about your what your friend said now,
I'm like, oh, man, it.
Danielle Robay (17:26):
Was kind of a light bulb moment for me.
Beck Dorey-Stein (17:28):
Yeah, but also in like this kind of I don't
want to say outdated, but like traditional way I mean,
I do think like the mental loads still for me
and for all of my female friends who are moms,
still falls more on us, unfortunately, but we also make
better decisions. But you still want to have kids. Oh yeah, okay, yeah,
(17:51):
but that's what I mean where it's like if that's
exactly how I was too. I was just like I
can't believe I'm not in control of this, and I
want it so badly. It's like, just tell me to
like run a certain amount of miles and a certain
amount of push ups, and like I'll do it. I'll
do whatever I have to do. And it's really hard,
especially like if you've always excelled in other arenas, if
(18:13):
you've excelled in school, where it's just like I just
have to work really hard and I can get it,
and it's so beyond frustrating to not be in control.
This is not relevant except for you and me right now,
But I like totally feeling on it because that's exactly
where I was, And I will say the only thing
that changed was my entire life by moving to Maine.
But also just like I had really I was just
(18:35):
like done because I was like, it's a pandemic I'm
not meeting anyone. I'm getting a dog. I'm getting a
psychotic puppy that I will have to train that I
will be up all night botty training, and that will
be my baby. And I think kind of figuring out
how to work with what I had was really helpful
(18:55):
in my sense of peace of like what I have
control over. And then who knows, I don't know. I
think you just have to come visit me.
Danielle Robay (19:02):
I feel like that's the answer.
Beck Dorey-Stein (19:04):
Yeah.
Danielle Robay (19:05):
But also there's the question that you shared with us
about like what would you give up for the person
you love most. There's a second part of that question,
and you say, what would you expect in return? That
second part is very interesting to me. What do you
mean by that?
Beck Dorey-Stein (19:22):
So I don't I think relationships between family members and
between romantic partners, even what I just said about the
mental load between domestic partners and parents, I think there's
rarely like a fifty fifty split, And so I think
it's actually really dangerous to give anything with the expectation
(19:47):
of getting something back. And I think oftentimes we do
it without even realizing we're doing it. We'll do something
kind and then maybe it's a matter of Oh, but
you wouldn't do this for me. And so I think
the dynamics between Cricket and Mia are really interesting because
Mia is always going to be the big sister, and
in a lot of ways, she's a surrogate mom, and
(20:09):
the mom makes the bigger sacrifice than the kids. So
then when things kind of come back around and Mia
hopes that Cricket will make this huge sacrifice, it's a
huge sacrifice. And also the sacrifices she made, she couldn't
have made them thinking that Cricket owed her for them.
So I think it's just a really complicated question and
(20:30):
I don't think there's a clear answer. I think it's
something that we all have to grapple with when we
do something, we have to make sure we're not expecting
something in return or else. You know, those aren't really
that's not genuine.
Danielle Robay (20:42):
It's not truly giving. I agree with you.
Yeah, I was really drawn to the way you use
symbolism in the book. Can you share the significance of
Liz's red ribbon and that hair tie around her wrist?
Beck Dorey-Stein (20:54):
Yeah, So Liz Low the mom has a complicated relationship
with her own mother. And yet I think even if
our moms are far from perfect, as Liz's mom is Lenora,
we still want their approval. It's really hard to escape that.
And so Lenora is like, here's a red ribbon to
(21:14):
put in your hair. That way everyone can see you
all the time. Leonora's got a bit of a narcissism problem.
And so Liz grows up wearing this red ribbon given
to her by her mother, who is not especially supportive.
And so then what's really cool is that then as
she continues to wear it, she gives it to her daughters,
and her daughters can just sort of love wearing a
(21:36):
red ribbon because their mom's love for them was just
so authentic and truthful, and so that it's cool. I think,
how what can be convoluted in one generation if it
gets passed down and it just comes from the heart,
it can become something totally new but still have this
(21:57):
tradition in.
Danielle Robay (21:58):
It and the idea that because I think, like, I
have a charm bracelet. Do you have anything that means
something to you from your family?
Beck Dorey-Stein (22:06):
Yeah, I've got Well, my mom actually gave me a
charm bracelet for like each book title. So there's like
a turtle for Rock, the boat. I think there's a
pencil for stenograph from the corner of the oval. But yeah,
tell me about your charm bracelet.
Danielle Robay (22:18):
Well, no, I first of all, thanks for sharing that.
That's very cute.
My mom had a charm bracelet and it did mean
something different to her, and then she gave it to me,
And so the idea that it means something different to
different generations is what I think I was really drawn
to and what you shared.
Beck Dorey-Stein (22:32):
Yeah, oh, total. I mean my mom's mom was a
triculated and it's so fun because one generation removed, I
can see all these these really beautiful things that she
taught my mom directly and indirectly that I just get
to benefit from without having to live through all the mess.
Danielle Robay (22:49):
I can imagine that a lot of readers are going
to connect to the generational aspect of this book. Would
you call it generational trauma generational patterns that you're exploring?
Beck Dorey-Stein (23:00):
I guess patterns if we're talking about soccer, and I
think Liz is pretty good at cutting things off quite dramatically,
but also loves the opportunity and the sparkle of soccer
and what that can do for her daughters in a
way that is both really helpful and inspirational and a
(23:23):
little bit problematic.
Danielle Robay (23:25):
For those who see themselves in the characters and see
some of even their own patterns in these characters. What
would you want to say to them?
Beck Dorey-Stein (23:34):
I would want to say, I'm going to echo what
Abby Wombo said, which is like, what is it giving
back to you? Like, when you're thinking about what you're
obsessed with, what will it give it back to you?
Because it's really those relationships and the people and the
connection between us, that's what kind of saves us. I mean,
I'm so excited I got to write this book. I'm
(23:56):
very proud of it. It was a long time coming.
I started before I was pregnant and now I've got
a three year old. But writing this book was very
helpful for me in processing my own thoughts. But it
was never going to love me back the way that
everyone who supported me through the drafts, after drafts, after drafts,
(24:17):
after drafts, the way that those people loved me and
supported me.
Danielle Robay (24:20):
That's so profound, because no matter what job you do,
it's always about the people.
Beck Dorey-Stein (24:25):
Yeah, I don't miss the White House. I really miss
my friends from the White House. I really miss being
surrounded by people who share the same values I have.
It's the hardest thing about being a writer is that
I'm not around nearly as many people.
Danielle Robay (24:38):
How do you solve for that? The dog park?
Beck Dorey-Stein (24:41):
Yeah, you nailed it. Yeah you can definitely tell if
I haven't been to the dog beach in a few days,
because then I'll just like corner the person at the
coffee shop when they're just trying to make coffee for
a long line of people, and I'll just be asking
them way too many questions about like their parents in
a way that is not appropriate.
Danielle Robay (25:00):
You're so good at asking questions. It's one of one
of your many gifts.
Okay, I'm going to ask a question that's a little
bit of a spoiler. So we learn that Liz dies
early on, and it's sudden and tragic, but then a
few pages in she's not really gone, and she shows
back up guiding and even influencing her daughter's lives. Not
just me, all of our producers, the whole team needs
(25:22):
to know what is Liz?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Is she a ghost? Is she a memory? A spirit guide?
Beck Dorey-Stein (25:28):
I think I guess out of those like, she's like
a spirit guide. I'm fortunate enough to still have both
of my parents. A lot of my friends have lost
one or both already and they've all talked about you know,
we see the signs of them, and also what are
we doing when we feel most connected to them something
that they also loved. So it makes sense that Cricket
sees her mom when she's in goal because there was
(25:50):
such the bond between them, and for me it takes
a little longer, and then when she does show up,
it's like all the more beautiful. But me, it's very
much like there's certain things that connect us in such
an intense, almost three dimensional way that I do think
(26:10):
Cricket sees her when she sees her on the soccer field,
it's like I know exactly what she would say in
this moment because she's been here for so many of
these games. You know, the script is already written. I
know what she would do in this situation.
Danielle Robay (26:23):
Is that why you chose to keep her present?
Beck Dorey-Stein (26:25):
Yeah? I just I don't like the idea of someone
dying and then they're just gone, especially again when we're
talking about a context that they love. So there's no
way that Cricket is going to play soccer and not
think about her mom. And there's no way that Mia
is going to start experiencing motherhood and not think about
(26:47):
what her own mom went through.
Danielle Robay (26:49):
Another thing that came up for me was the playlist,
and specifically the song get Low Fly High. It pops
up again and again, almost like a mantra, but then
when I went to look it up, it doesn't actually exist.
I kind of thought it was real. It's not real,
So where does the song come from.
Beck Dorey-Stein (27:06):
I'm only telling you this because I like you so
much too, and it's so embarrassing. That's why I'm hesitant.
But whatever, we're doing it okay. So originally their last
name is low, so I thought I was gonna be
like get low, like three six nine, damn your fun.
And then I listened to the lyrics and I was like,
this is not the song, and so I had to
(27:27):
make up my own. But it started as that, and
then once I kind of like dug a little deeper,
it's like this would not like windows the Wall, Like
it's not this, but it's something very close to this.
But I was just so excited about like get low
being their last name.
Danielle Robay (27:41):
But yeah, uh yeah, I try so hard not to
giggle to ruin the audio.
Through the window. Yep, that's incredible in your mind. Didn't
have the same rhythm.
Beck Dorey-Stein (27:55):
Sure did. Like if I was writing and then I,
you know, was done for the day, that would be
the song I would blast. But it just was not.
The lyrics just don't go with the low women as
much as I want them to, which then I was like,
even trying to justify it. I was like, well, you know,
Liz low Is a is a child of the eighties
(28:15):
and nineties. You know she would if she would be
where I am where I'm just like, this is great,
but no, like, sweat dripping down my balls is like
not the vibe I was going for.
Danielle Robay (28:26):
Beck I love you so much.
I'm not going to ask you to sing it because
I love you so much, but I am singing it in.
My own brain right now.
You yeah, I will tell you that that's not what
you were expecting. It's actually I was thinking more like
I believe I can fly. It was it was giving
me inspirational, But sweat dripping down my balls feels inspirational
(28:51):
in a different way.
Beck Dorey-Stein (28:52):
Well, think about how much of a pump up song
that has to be that these women are going into
the Atlantic Ocean in the winter in Maine. True, it's
it's got to be quite the pump up. It's the
polar base.
Danielle Robay (29:05):
Yeah, yeah, Okay, So I actually haven't read a lot
of stories that talk about ambition as explicitly as Spectacular
Things does, and I've always been very proud to be
a driven woman. I can tell that you are the
exact same way. One of the takeaways from the characters
that I felt akin to my life, I guess, is
(29:28):
that it's less about the actual dream or getting it.
It's really about who you become by pursuing it.
And it's sort of like love to.
Me, because when you love someone, you're willing to look
at yourself in the mirror and deal with the worst
parts of you because you want that person and you
(29:48):
love that relationship. And so I think of dreams the
same way, like you're willing to fight for them because
you want this thing so bad, and so you become
the best and worst versions of yourself trying to get it.
You've now experienced big love and big dreams, do you
feel like you were willing to go after both in
(30:10):
the same way.
Beck Dorey-Stein (30:11):
I think I was willing and gunning for a long time,
and then having a baby knocked me on my butt
to such a degree it was very helpful as far
as prioritizing what actually mattered and to go back to
what you said where ambition is a lot like love
(30:34):
and because we can do spoilers here, I think it's
so much why Cricket finally allows herself to fall in
love with Sloan. They both have the same immense ambition,
and in some ways Sloan is a little bit more evolved,
only because she got knocked on her butt and got
injured and so she realized, I keep wanting more, and
(30:56):
it's just sort of this idea of like another world,
cup isn't going to who I am, and she's really
helpful in guiding Cricket into that same revelation. But I
also think it's why they fall in love is because
ambition is so much like love that it's like Cricket
can kindly be like, you know what, I'm not actually
(31:16):
competing with you. I've got to love you with both
arms around you because I think, yeah, ambition and love.
But like ambition doesn't love you back. Love loves you back,
and love comes from other people. Ambition comes from our
you know, Ambition is very tricky.
Danielle Robay (31:34):
Do you think that ambition can come from a healthy
place or do you think it's like it just stems
from all the insecurity.
Beck Dorey-Stein (31:41):
I don't, I know, because I love ambitious people like
I don't think it's a bad thing. I think it's
just a thing that sometimes needs to be hip checked.
Because what's the opposite of ambition complacency. I don't want
to be complacent. I think that takes all the curiosity
out of our lives. I think like ambition and curiosity,
(32:02):
it's like, what would happen if I kept going that's
so fun? Like what's going to happen if I keep
pushing myself? So it's just a sort of you know,
it's Cricket doing the beep test, where it's like, yeah,
let's see how far I can go, but also like
let's not kill ourselves.
Danielle Robay (32:32):
Beck Who did you write this book for?
Beck Dorey-Stein (32:34):
I think I always write for me first, because I'm
trying to figure out what I'm trying to say and
what matters to me. In another way, it's like I
wrote it for all of my former teammates, everyone who
just like loves soccer but also loved me and supported me.
(32:55):
Because again, these teammates, it's like, I can't overestimate what
an impact they've had on me. And same with some
of my best coaches, Like I still to this day
will think Rose Miller, my club soccer coach from middle school,
was like, leave your heart on the field. And it's like, Okay,
I'm no longer playing soccer, but like what am I
doing where it's like I can either do this at
(33:16):
fifty percent or I could do this at one hundred percent.
And that's Rose telling me that as a ten.
Danielle Robay (33:22):
Year old, right, Like, you're writing this book and it
probably took you much longer than expected, and you're thinking, Okay,
just leave your heart on the field.
Beck Dorey-Stein (33:30):
Yeah. And also another Rose ism is like the bruises
will hurt less tomorrow if you give it you're all today.
And then from doctor Coline Hacker, who I got to
interview for this book, when I asked her about cricket
the goalkeeper, I was like, how would she not just
be like stressed out over the pressure, and she was like,
because she's trained, and so she needs to trust her
(33:53):
training and also see this as an opportunity to like
just prove that she has put in the work. And
so I think that's really helpful, probably for you and
definitely for me. Where it's like anytime I get nervous
about a situation, like oh am I gonna blow it,
It's like, no, it's just an opportunity. Like I've been
training for this. I'm good.
Danielle Robay (34:14):
I had a coach one time that would always say,
is this all you're going to show yourself today?
Beck Dorey-Stein (34:19):
Which sports did you play?
Danielle Robay (34:21):
Not dance team?
Beck Dorey-Stein (34:24):
Why are you saying it like that?
Danielle Robay (34:26):
Is that a sport?
Beck Dorey-Stein (34:27):
Yes, it's a sport.
Danielle Robay (34:30):
I'm like, I'm a girl in the gym, but this
is about you.
This is not about me.
Beck Dorey-Stein (34:34):
I don't but I do, like, no, nope, nope. Let
me just say I knew you did something very competitive,
and dance team is totally a sport. I ken't like
it's kind of to me. It's like swimming, where I'm like,
it's one hundred percent of sport and I know right
now I'm not good.
Danielle Robay (34:48):
At Yeah, I'm not good either, just to let you know.
I'm like the worst.
But you had a coach, coach. I think I'm obsessed
with coaches. I read like every book that any sports
coach has written. There's so much wisdom that comes from
there and the sports analogy to life analogy just could
(35:09):
not be overestimated.
Beck Dorey-Stein (35:10):
I mean, I can never meet Emma Hayes, the current
head coach of the US women's national team, because I'm
so deeply in love with her and i just want
her to be my coach. And also what's funny is
I feel like every former player might also feel that way.
When you see them talk about Emma Hayes, they're like, wow,
I could have used an Emma.
Danielle Robay (35:31):
Hayes for those of us who didn't have quite an
Emma Hayes.
Would you hope that Spectacular Things leaves readers thinking about
when they close the book and read the last page.
Beck Dorey-Stein (35:43):
I hope they think about someone they love they haven't
spoken to in a little bit, and they feel compelled
to pick up the phone and like, hopefully ideally not text,
but actually just pick up the phone because I think
it's getting You're an easier to lose connection with people
who aren't directly in front of us. That's what happens
(36:05):
to Cricket and Mia. And when we see we're hearing something,
you're just hearing someone's voice that we love. It changes everything.
Danielle Robay (36:13):
So in the theme of navigating sacrifice for dreams. I'm
really curious what you would whisper to young Beck before
she set out on her dreams.
Beck Dorey-Stein (36:23):
The same thing I tell myself when I'm doing a
road race now and I'm just like hooking it and
I'm like why did I do this? Which is just
like this is fun? And are you having fun? Because
this is supposed to be fun? So gut check fun good,
let's keep going.
Danielle Robay (36:40):
Okay, I have to ask you about something that you've
bookmarked this week. Also, do you use a bookmark or
are you a page like dog ear person?
Beck Dorey-Stein (36:49):
No, I won't dog ear. That was said so snobby,
it was great.
Danielle Robay (36:54):
Oh I would never dog ear.
Beck Dorey-Stein (36:56):
I would never. I have a lot of respect for
the page. I'm pretty nuts about it. That being said,
I almost never have a bookmark on hand. I feel
like they all they're like dog bags. They all accumulate
in one place that is never where I need them
to be.
Danielle Robay (37:09):
So that which number page you're on?
Beck Dorey-Stein (37:13):
No, I'll like writ I usually have some piece of
paper and I'll just rip. So yeah, I have no
problem denigrating like normal pieces of paper, just not pages
in a book.
Danielle Robay (37:21):
Okay, so what if you bookmarked this week?
Beck Dorey-Stein (37:24):
I actually I wanted to bookmark just an epiphany I
had in the car, which is I try to write letters.
Letters often take a little bit more time than I
have right now, but I love to send like a
random card or a random postcard. And so what I
realize this week is that if I keep stamps in
my center console, I can always just send it when
(37:47):
I want to, because I keep stamps in a drawer,
but then I forget and it doesn't happen. So now
I keep stamps in my center console. That literally was
an epiphany I had this week, and it just game changing.
I like, I'm now just freewheeling letters and postcards.
Danielle Robay (38:03):
That's so awesome.
Beck Dorey-Stein (38:04):
My son has gotten very good at opening the mailbox.
Danielle Robay (38:09):
Not to be on like a literary high horse, but
I do feel like letters more than a gift, more
than anything. When I receive a letter, I'm like, oh,
I feel so thought of. It's I think that's so
beautiful that you do that.
Beck Dorey-Stein (38:22):
Yeah, I love receiving them, and it's also just a
gift to send them out because it's like I just
got to think about you, and I get to think
about you in like two days. When you get this
little envelope in the mail.
Danielle Robay (38:32):
Okay, back, we're going to have some fun.
We do this thing called speed read and it's sixty seconds.
I'm going to ask you as many questions as I
can in this time.
Okay, you look alarmed.
Beck Dorey-Stein (38:48):
I'm a competitive person, Daniel, Let's do it.
Danielle Robay (38:50):
Hell yeah, get Low Fly High. Let's go. Okay.
A song that best describes spectacular things?
Beck Dorey-Stein (38:59):
Will you just get Low Fly High?
Danielle Robay (39:01):
What's a book you'd wish you'd.
Written tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow? Which celebrity would narrate
your memoir?
Beck Dorey-Stein (39:08):
Emma Stone?
Danielle Robay (39:09):
Oh, favorite book to recommend?
Beck Dorey-Stein (39:11):
Demon Copperhead.
Danielle Robay (39:13):
What book shaped the way you see the world?
Beck Dorey-Stein (39:15):
Probably all of Judy Bloom.
Danielle Robay (39:18):
What's a literary trope you'll defend with your life.
Beck Dorey-Stein (39:21):
I guess a new person comes down.
Danielle Robay (39:24):
That's such a good one for you. Okay, what's your
red flag reading habit?
Beck Dorey-Stein (39:28):
I will say my good friend Emma told me that
she skims full pages or like, if she's like stressed,
if it's like a high pressure moment in a book,
she'll just skim through to the end of the chapter
to find out. And I'm like, I can't believe I'm
friends with a psychopath.
Danielle Robay (39:48):
Ok I have to ask you one more because I
can't end on that. What's the best book You've never read?
Beck Dorey-Stein (39:55):
The best book I've never read probably Brothers mas of
only because that's my brother's favorite book and I'm always
trying to keep up with him still even though we
are very old. It's a great He loves that book,
and I'm like, I haven't read it, and I really
should because he loves it so much and he reads
a lot.
Danielle Robay (40:13):
I love it.
Beck.
Beck Dorey-Stein (40:14):
You are so smart and so much fun and so real.
Danielle Robay (40:18):
Thank you for putting so many great things into the
world that really make people question and feel seen.
Beck Dorey-Stein (40:25):
Thank you so much, Danielle. This was truly a treat.
Thank you very very much.
Danielle Robay (40:29):
I can't wait to see you in Maine.
And if you want a little bit more from us,
come hang with us on socials. We're at Reese's Book
Club on Instagram serving up books, vibes and behind the
scenes magic. And I'm at Danielle Robe Roba y come
say hi and d have me.
And if you want to go nineties on us, call us.
(40:50):
Okay, our phone line is open, so call now at
one five zero one two nine to one three three
seven nine. That's one five oh one, one two nine, one, three, three,
seven nine, share your literary hot takes, book recommendations, questions
about the monthly pick, or let us know what you
(41:10):
think about the episode you just heard. And who knows,
you might just hear yourself in our next episode, so
don't be shy, give us a ring, and of course,
make sure to follow Bookmarked by Reese's book Club on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your
shows until then, see you in the next chapter. Bookmarked
(41:31):
is a production of Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcast. It's
executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and me Danielle Robe. Production
is by ACAST Creative Studios. Our producers are Matty Foley,
Brittany Martinez, Sarah Schleid, and Darby Masters. Our production assistant
is Avery Loftus. Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder are the
(41:52):
executive producers for A Cast Creative Studios. Maureen Polo and
Reese Witherspoon are the executive producers for Hello Sunshine. Olga kaminwa,
Kristin Perla and Ashley Rappaport are associate producers for Reese's
book Club. Ali Perry and Lauren Hansen are the executive
producers for iHeart Podcasts, and Tim Palazola is our showrunner.
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