November 4, 2025 • 53 mins
Pop royalty meets literary queen! Hayley Kiyoko stops by Bookmarked to chat about her swoony new novel “Where There’s Room for Us”, a queer Victorian romance inspired by her real-life romance. She and host Danielle Robay talk about love, creativity, and how Hayley keeps turning every era of her life into pure gold. From Disney days to “Lesbian Jesus” status, she’s built a world entirely on her own terms. Plus, get a sneak peek of the November Reese’s Book Club Pick, Wild Dark Shore.
BOOKS MENTIONED
Where There’s Room for Us by Hayley Kiyoko
Wild Dark Shore by Charlotte McConaghy
Bridgerton series by Julia Quinn
Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen
Girls Like Girls by Hayley Kiyoko
Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo by Taylor Jenkins Reed
The Creative Act: A Way of Being by Rick Rubin
Pachinko by Min Jin Lee
The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz
The Fifth Agreement by Don Jose Ruiz, Don Miguel Ruiz, Janet Mills
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bookmarked by Reese's book Club is presented by Apple Books.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Danielle Robe. Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's book Club.
We have two great conversations this week. In a little bit,
we're talking to Haley Kyoko, singer, songwriter, actor and author.
Her new book, Where There's Room for Us is a
queer romanticy for the ages, and it may or may
not have some real life inspiration. But before we jump in,
(00:28):
it's the first Tuesday of the month. You know what
that means. It's time to reveal the newest Reese's book
Club pick. Greese take it away.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Hi, Bookmarked listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Hi, Danielle, I'm so excited to share that our November
Reese's book Club pick is Wild Dark Shore by Charlotte McConaughey.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Read along with us.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Okay, it's your turn to jump in, So grab Wild
Dark Shore and read with us all month long. And
as you go, I need you to email me voice
memos with your thoughts, your questions, your hot takes, because
at the end of the month, we're going to sit
down with Charlotte again and dig into all the juicy details,
and I want to play her Your questions okay, miss Charlotte,
(01:12):
welcome to the club. Thank you. I owe you a
big congratulations. Your book, Wild Dark Shore is the November
Reese's Book Club Pick. So for those of us picking
up your book for the very first time, if you, Charlotte,
had the opportunity to hand a future reader this book
walking onto a plane, or after a breakup or looking
(01:33):
to start over in some way, what would you say?
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Oh, okay, I would say, be ready for a bit
of a gut punch. This is the story of a
father raising his three children on a very remote and
stormy island. They're the last inhabitants until the night of
a particularly bad storm washes a woman onto their shore,
(01:58):
and she's going to change their life forever. It's a
romantic Gothic mystery, and it's an Eco thriller, and it
is about how far we go for the people we love.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I really love that, Charlotte. I have to tell you
and everybody listening that it pulls you in right away,
and it's very high stakes, it's very emotional. Is there
a scene or a moment that you're especially proud of writing.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
I don't want to give any spoilers, but I'm proud
of the ending, and the ending is a bit contentious.
You know, a lot of feedback from people who either
love it or they're kind of annoyed with me, But
I'm very proud of it. And then there's lots of
kind of scenes throughout that I feel, you know, sometimes
you just feel like you kind of nailed that moment
(02:52):
or you've found a way to really, I guess, get
to the heart of what you're trying to say. And
then there's other scenes where you feel like you didn't.
You've got to kind of go back and rework them.
But it's always fun when you get it on the
first try.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
One of the moments that you feel like you got
to the heart of it. Would you be willing to
read a paragraph or two for us.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Yes, I can. I'm obviously I'm not going to read
the ending, but now I will read. If this is
just a tiny moment, which is the first scene that
we get, we are introduced to Dominic Salt, who's the
father on this island. You are not meant to have favorites,
But my youngest is that if only by a hair
(03:34):
and with a gun to my head, if I really
really had to answer and not because we're most alike,
that is my oldest and me, not because we at
least alike that is my daughter and me. Maybe it's
because he's curious and kind and so smart it can
make your eyes water. Maybe it's because he whispers to
the wind and hears its voice in return. Most likely
(03:56):
I don't know why, but it may also be because
for one brief moment long ago, I wished him dead.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
So that's like quite an intense thing to say about
your child, and it kind of sums up Dominic and
his struggle and his conflict.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Why did you read that moment? What do you like
about it.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
As a sort of opening paragraph to someone, to a character.
I think it kind of lets you in to quite
a deep, a deep kind of core of conflict that
dom has about himself and his relationship with his children.
He's an extraordinary father. He sort of only exists as
a father in a way. Now that his wife has
(04:37):
passed away, he's raising these three children alone. It's like
he's become this one part of himself and nothing else.
And there is a crux of grief and trauma there
that sort of forms this relationship he has and this
conflict he has around that moment when he sort of
(04:58):
wished his child wasn't really, I think fuels this sort
of guilt and grief and shame, and it's something that
he has to work really hard throughout the course of
the book to shed himself of. So I think, you know,
as just an opening paragraph, it just gives us this
little hint of an insight into this inner turmoil that
(05:21):
he's feeling.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
It's also interesting because we don't see father's portrayed that
way very often. We see mothers who are overtaken by parenthood.
So I find it interesting that you chose a father
to deliver this information. Who did you write this book for, Charlotte?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Very good question. I've never been asked that before. There's
always a component where it's for yourself, because it's something
to that you're trying to understand or grapple with or
make sense of within yourself. You know, this is a
book about fear, specifically the fear of raising children in
(06:06):
a collapsing world, in a world that's ravaged by ecological crisis,
and our responsibilities around having children and to our children,
you know, how do we talk to them about this?
What does love mean in the face of loss, all
these big questions I was really grappling with as I
had You know, this book came to me at the
(06:26):
same time as I had my children, and so there's
a part of it that is that it's for myself
in terms of trying to understand this new role of
motherhood and what's happening in the world. But it's also
it's absolutely for my children. It is a love letter
to them, you know that. I hope they will read
one day and know that this was a cry out
(06:51):
and it was a way of me just not giving
up this fight and being able to sort of say
to them one day, like, I didn't give up for you.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You know. I just heard ZD. Smith last night in
an interview say that the actual act of writing is optimistic.
The action means that you're trying for something. So even
though you're tackling a really sometimes dark and intense subject matter,
your writing is optimistic. Is that what it felt like
(07:24):
when you were writing it.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Yeah, it's always that sort of especially when you're writing
about this subject matter, you are constantly kind of walking
that line between optimism and pessimism. You're you know, day
to day, I feel like that I'm kind of I'm
not never quite sure which way I'm going to go,
but the act of sitting down and putting pen to paper,
trying to make sense of it, trying to make something
(07:50):
beautiful out of this chaos, trying to find the little
glimpse of love and light within this sort of big
doc Maelstrom is it is. It's an act of defiance
and hope. You know, even when I didn't feel that way,
It's like you have to become that in order to
(08:12):
make something that's that's worth worthwhile.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Mm hmm, well said, I want our readers this month
to let their imagination run wild while they're reading your book.
I think there's so much to picture, not just the characters,
but the landscapes that you paint. And I can't help
but cast when I read books nowadays. I know you
have a film and screenwriting background, so I'm really wanting
(08:39):
to know your thoughts, which I know we'll say for
the end of the month, but for all of you
club members, please send us your casting choices because we
may play your voicemail at the end of the month
when we get back to check in with Charlotte. Are
there any questions that you have for listeners that you're
dying to know.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Maybe their favorite seed story. I love hearing that there's
always it's funny. There's a lot of these kind of
little moments all of the youngest child throughout the book,
he sort of, I guess, brings this new woman into
their lives and kind of seduces her into their world
(09:18):
by telling her the stories of seeds. And everyone I
know has a different favorite. So I'd love to kind
of hear which one most excited you or moved you.
And I'd love to know what you think of the ending,
you know, whether it's infuriating or just right.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
You know, Charlotte, I actually think that most of my
favorite books have frustrating endings because they didn't expect them.
Do you have an opinion unhappy endings? Are you a
person who believes in happy endings, who likes to write them,
who wants to write the unexpected? What do you think?
Speaker 4 (09:57):
I think every book has a It has an ending
that is right for that book, and not all books
are right to have a happy ending. Some need them,
absolutely need them. Some books need something that is perhaps
more nuanced or that gets to the heart of what
(10:18):
the book is actually trying to say so. For me,
the ending of this book is kind of bittersweet. I'm
not going to say too much about it, of course,
but I think it's you know, it's genre specific, it's
character specific, it's story specific. What the ending needs to
be and I certainly don't think they all need to
be happy, but we do need some sense that, like,
(10:42):
it wasn't just totally for nothing, and that this is
the most depressing thing ever.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Thank you for that. I think everybody's going to be
happy to hear that as they dive into the book
this month. My last question for you before we check
back in with you at the end of the month
is who was your first car when you found out
you were a Reese's Book Club pick?
Speaker 4 (11:06):
I well, I ran. I think I ran to tell
my partner, and he was funny because we always used
to joke. We always used to joke about one day
Reese would come knocking and read my book and we
would just laugh because it was so silly, and so
of course I had to run and tell him this,
and we were both just like, oh.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
My god, do you feel like you manifested that?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Maybe like kind of ironically manifested it.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think we did. I
think we totally brought that into being some crazy way
and then yeah, just like my mom, my friends, everyone.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
It's so fun, Charlotte. I got to host a Reese's
book Club party right before Shinaway, which is Hello Sunshine's
annual event, and so many of the Reese's book Club
authors were there, and it's really like this sorority and club.
They all have a group chat. They're so supportive of
(12:09):
one another. So I just I'm so excited for you
because I feel like, whether you know it or not yet,
you have like a whole new sisterhood ahead of you.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Oh wow, that is not something I expected. So I'm
very happy and excited to hear that.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, it actually gives me chills when I think about it.
I know it's corny, but it's really special. So huge
congratulations and I can't wait to talk to you at
the end of the month.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Thank you so much, Sanielle. Really lovely to chat.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Welcome back to Bookmarked by Reese's book Club. All right,
let's travel from our climate future to our Victorian past
or at least Haley kiok version of it. You probably
know Hailey from her Disney channel days her music or
as a boundary breaking queer icon literal icon, but today
(13:10):
we're diving into her world as an author. Her debut novel,
Girls Like Girls, became a New York Times bestseller, inspired
by her hit song and music video of the same name.
And now she's back with a brand new novel. Okay,
it's called Where There's Room for Us, and it is
out today. It's set in the Victorian era, and it
follows Ivy, an American poet with a bit of a
(13:31):
playgirl reputation. It also follows Freya, a British aristocrat torn
between her family's expectations and an undeniable pull towards Ivy.
Does any of this sound familiar? Okay, I'm just gonna
give you the tea because we're all friends here. Haley
shared that the couple at the center of the story,
Ivy and Freya, was really inspired by her and her
(13:53):
real life girlfriend now fiance, Becha Tilly. And if there's
any bachelor fans out there, you know Becka Tilly. One
of the many things Haley does well is make creative
reinvention look effortless. But we all know nobody's life is
effortless and Hailey's path has been anything but simple. Hers
is a story of risk and reinvention and radical imagination,
(14:17):
forged at a time when few blueprints existed. She has
truly built a world on her own terms, and it's
been fueled by a lot of self trust, queer joy,
and the belief that rules are meant to be rewritten.
So if you want to hear about what it really
takes to create the life and the art that you
want to see in the world, you're in the right place.
(14:39):
Let's turn the page with Hailey, Kioko, Hailey, Lesbian Jesus.
Welcome to Bookmarks.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
Thank you so much for having me, Daniel, I'm so
happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
No, I'm so happy to have you here. All of
the producers are so happy to have you here. You
have a lot of fans in the house. I kind
I feel like I'm in the presence of queer pop divinity.
So thank you for blessing us.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
Thank you so much. I breathe rainbow. It it just
shoots out. You can't see it, but you can hear it.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
So while I do feel like we are not worthy,
we are very excited. How did Lesbie and Jesus come about?
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (15:22):
You know, it was really funny. I was on tour
in twenty eighteen. It was my debut album, Expectations, and
I would do all these q and as and me
and greets before the shows, and people would just start
calling me lesbian Jesus. And I thought it was like
I felt like I was out of the loop, like
as a millennial. So I was like, oh, people are
calling people lesbian Jesus, like this is a thing that
(15:44):
I need to like catch on too. And then I
remember like going online and then being with one of
my friends and being like, no, like they call you
lesbian Jesus. You don't just call everyone lesbian Jesus. And
I was like what. So it was it was kind
of cute because because I always wanted to have a
nickname growing up, and my name is just Haley and
(16:05):
that's just what people called me. And I never excelled
in sports where I had like a cool nickname, and
so it feels like it's healing my inner child's having
like a nickname, even if it is lesbian Jesus.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
You're such a writer through and through. I was going
over your catalog of work, and you write songs, you
write comics, you write films, and this is just your
latest piece of prose. It's a book called Where There's
Room for Us, and I love that it's set in
the Victorian era. And we're going to talk all about
the book, but I need to do something with you first.
(16:44):
I need to do a little exercise with you. Transport
yourself into the Victorian era for one day. What are
you wearing, what are you doing? Who are you flirting with?
What are you snacking on?
Speaker 5 (16:56):
Wow, that's tough, because, like my the dream scenario is
in the book. Like I was like, I'm falling in
love with a girl and We're going to the tea
room and we're walking the bridge and you know where
all these things and so like my inspiration of like
just fantasy went into Where There's Room for Us because
(17:18):
I also think, like you know, I'm obsessed with pride
and prejudice. And when I would watch that film, like
I thought, I was like mister Darcy, like that was me.
And so I would try to imagine myself in these
situations and I would always go, well, I would I
want to be there because I'm Asian, I'm gay, I
probably want to be thriving. You know, all these scenarios
(17:41):
and so, I mean, we'll get into the book later,
but that's why I ended up kind of being inspired
doing like a queer hyperreality version of it, because when
you ask me that question, like what am I doing there?
Like the reality is is I don't know. I don't
know if I exist in that space, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Well, to your point, something I found so interesting is
it's a love story about queer people and it's sidestepping
this sort of like queer tortured trope that we see
in so many books and films. She just wants to
be gay and to be happy. Were you inspired by
Bridgerton at all? Like where this alt universe exists?
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Almost My original inspiration was Brandy Cinderella.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I don't know if you ever saw that real it's
the best.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Yeah, And like the Prince was Asian, you know, so
I just for me that was like the beginning of that.
But I also feel like Bridgerton has shown the world
that people want to watch period pieces and support that
and those are kind of hard to get made. But yeah,
I just like when I love Bridgerton, but I just
(18:49):
always want it like really gay, and I want to
go like further into it and I also am really
inspired by like sisterhood and sister dynamics, and I have
an older sister and a younger rather and just like
sibling dynamics in general, and so those were kind of
like the starting off branches of growing.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
This the world that I've always.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Wanted to be in.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Before reading your book, I didn't necessarily think of the
Victorian era as especially sexy.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, there's a lot of layers.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
There's the clothes, the heat, there's I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
If we're necessarily comfortable.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
There just feels like there's like a lot of rules
and pretense and ways to do things before you actually
do the actual thing for sure. Sure, is there anything
that you found doing research and writing that you feel
like is surprisingly hot about the Victorian era?
Speaker 5 (19:37):
I mean, I think what makes it sexy and hot
is like it's like a no phone era.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
It's there's like you have.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
To wait for months for a letter to.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Arrive, and like there's just something super romantic about that
time of just like what are they thinking and not
knowing what they're thinking and not knowing what they're up to,
when in twenty twenty five we know what everyone's up
to all the time and if we don't know, we
want to know immediately, and so I think just removing
that aspect of it and being set in the Victorian
(20:11):
era just makes it automatically romantic.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Okay, wait, correct me if I'm wrong. But did you
meet Becca your partner on the Internet?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
No?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I didn't. Where'd you guys meet?
Speaker 5 (20:25):
So our origin story is I had my album release
party in twenty eighteen for Expectations, and I had invited
like all these people, and so she was like a
plus one at the party and she walked in and
I was like, oh my gosh, that's my Bachelor. But
(20:46):
I like like foolishly pretended like I didn't know who
she was from The Bachelor. Listen, everyone's guilty of this,
Like you just pretend that you don't know, but of course.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
You know always.
Speaker 5 (20:58):
But I met her and she was I was very
interested in her, but she was trying to hook me
up with her younger sister, and so I had drinks
like set up with her younger sister a couple days later,
and the sister bailed and so back I told me
she felt bad for me, so she went instead and
(21:19):
we like had this date at the Chateau Mormon and
we were like there for like hours, we just like
hit it.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Off, and that's our origin story.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
So for me, I've never really been able to write
about our story, and.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
So I was like, wow, it would be so cool to.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Have, you know, my next book be inspired by our
meet cute and like this idea of like her trying
to hook me up with her younger sister, but then
we end up falling love instead, and so that was
kind of like the seed that kind of grew this
this entire idea and following kind of our love story
within that.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
I love the idea that this romanticy is based off
off of some real life events. Yes, why choose the
Victorian era, Like it's not really known for freedom of expression?
Why set a queer love story there?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
No? I know, I love hard things.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
I just like I've always wanted to see myself in
something like Pride and Prejudice or for Jerton. So I'm
just like obsessed with that era because it's so romantic
and sexy. And my main focus in life is to
create hopeful queer content, whether it's through music, whether it's
through novels or films like that is just my dying
(22:34):
wish just to make as much content as possible. And
when I was developing it, I realized I was like,
I don't know if I can have a hopeful ending.
I was like, if this is reality, I don't know
if I thrive in this space. And so that's when
I was like, oh, maybe it's a queer hyperreality. Like
what does a world look like if you could be
(22:55):
queer in the eighteen hundred, like freely and like meeting
up at the bridge at night and like having these
lavish parties and like, but you're also a woman, and
there's so many like hypocritical things that we navigate as women,
just in twenty twenty five. And so I was like, Okay,
what if I get rid of one discrimination, but two
gay men can inherit land and continue the family line,
(23:18):
but two women can't. And so it kind of created
this interesting dynamic where I kind of set it up
where becus character Freya is put in a situation where
she has the pressure to marry a man and continue
the family line, and she meets my character Yeah, and
(23:39):
it's like what does that look like? And how does
that unfolds? And I feel like everyone can relate to
I don't know when you're when you're dating, and then
when you find your person, Like every family has expectations
of like who you're gonna be and who you're going
to date and who you're gonna love, no matter what.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Your background is. I just was really.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
Excited and inspired about taking our met cute, putting it
in the Victorian era and then letting it unfold and
being like, is it still hard? Is it still hard
to be yourself even if if you have certain rights,
but you don't have all you know?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
And what does that look like?
Speaker 1 (24:27):
So you're kind of known for working things out in
your writing, like you've explored your sexuality and girls like girls.
I know your EP Satrine was inspired by your experience
with post concussion syndrome catharsist. Feels like it's a driving
force for you. And in hearing what you just said
about expectations and replacing one prejudice for another, I think
(24:51):
it's a better term. Was there anything that you were
working out in the book.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (24:57):
I mean I think just as an artist in general,
you're inspired by things that you've experienced and then you
kind of put them, You kind of put your experience
in a box and then you're like, how do I
navigate within this box and within these rules and what
would happen and how would I feel? And so it
(25:17):
kind of challenges you to really go deeper into just
the human experience. And so that's what's so exciting about writing.
And you know, I love writing music, but being able
to really go extremely deep into, you know, ninety thousand
(25:37):
words of how you feel and what it would be
like to be in that space is really freeing. And
it's been something that I didn't realize I was missing
in my life, and it's been one of the most
rewarding mediums I've dipped my toes in.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
So I'm curious as to why, because my instinct would
be that music is so emotional that it would give
you that, But did why writing this book?
Speaker 5 (26:06):
Well, listen, I love writing music. I love performing music.
I think music is incredible. But you know, when you're
writing a song, there's a time limit, there's like the
challenge is different, right, It's like, when you're writing a song,
it's like, how do I tell my story with the
most minimal amounts of words and how do I make
(26:27):
that impact like immediately? And so that is like an
extreme challenge within itself and then the challenge with the novel.
But the plus side is that you could talk about
someone's jacket for like three pages, like you know, like
you can just go into this that you just don't
have that time within a song. And so they both
(26:49):
of the mediums have certain parameters and challenges within creation.
But I just think that I had more to say
and so being able to have the freedom, you know,
I talk about this a lot, like I started directing
my music video is very early on in my career.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
And you know, when you're directing a.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Music video, you're budgeting things out. You have to pay
for everything on screen, every single thing you have to
pay for. But when you're writing a book, it's like
you could put a dragon in there, you could have
an explosion, you could have like you eighty foot castle
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
It is like, yeah, you're literally doing yeah.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
And so I think, like I started my career and
very like here's your parameters, and how do you create
in these parameters? And then this was kind of the
first medium where I was like, there are no parameters, how.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Do you create that way?
Speaker 5 (27:42):
Which is also just as challenging where you're like, okay,
where does one begin. I can do anything where do
we want to take it? And so that's been really
exciting for me.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I'm so curious about your process and the difference between
writing and writing a book. When you say where do
you begin when you're writing a song, do you begin
with a feeling?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
It depends.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
I love sitting in silence, So a lot of my
best melody ideas come from being on a plane or
being in the car and I'll like sing to myself
and just like voice note. But for me, it's melody.
So I'm very melody driven, like plucking a melody out
on the synth. Like one of my songs found my friends,
the Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb. I just like plucked that
all on the synth and then we just hooked up
(28:29):
the mic and I just started like scatting over that melody.
And so for me, it's very melody driven. But then
sometimes it's like, ugh, I have this thing that I've
been going through, and you have kind of like in
your notes on your phone of like these ideas of
songs that you're wanting to create, and obviously the more
that you're writing, the more you're.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Just able to do it.
Speaker 5 (28:51):
But yeah, music is it comes naturally to me. I
think the thing that connects all the things that I
do is just sorytelling. It's like I think for me,
I always grew up feeling like I wasn't enough or
I didn't belong. I didn't feel like I was worthy,
I didn't feel I didn't feel main character energy, And
so my whole life is just like can I be
(29:14):
a pop star? Can a pop star look like this?
Can I write a book? Can I direct a film?
Is there space for me? When you know under five
percent of films are directed by women, Like you know,
just all these challenges, and I think for me, I'm
just so attracted to things that I've never done before,
and can I do it?
Speaker 1 (29:36):
It's kind of the question, and what's the feeling that
you're after? What are you chasing? Like when you do
do one of these things that feel near impossible.
Speaker 5 (29:47):
I think it's I think it just goes back to
like the inner child of like feeling enough, feeling like
I belong. But it's like self, it's like self love,
it's self validation of like, oh, even if no one
connects to this, this is something that I've accomplished that
speaks true to me, that I believe in and It's
(30:08):
something that I was able to do from A to
Z and so I think it's just kind of healing,
healing that that part. And I think all of us
have a specific whole in our heart that we're trying
to patch up and mend or just grow and nurture,
and through art is a really great way.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
To do that.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
If you start with melody when you're writing songs, where
do you begin when you're writing a novel? Uh?
Speaker 5 (30:35):
I think for me, I'm really trying to go back
to my truth. And with Girls Like Girls, it was
an interesting experience because the music video I had already
created and then I was inspired to tell my story.
And then it was like for Girls Like Girls, a
challenge was how do I tell my story through pre
(31:00):
created characters in a scenario that wasn't my scenario? So
I was like, how do I how do I insert
my story through that? So that was like the extreme
hardship within my first debut novel.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
And then with Where There's Room for Us, the hardship
was where, like, where are the rules.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
And where are the boundaries within this this this kind
of like hyper reality world that I'm creating. And so
when I begin, it's kind of like, well, what is
the truth? What am I trying to say?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
You know?
Speaker 5 (31:29):
So I started with, well, I really want to include
something that kind of mirrors the meatcute that I had
with Becca at the Chateau Ormont, So I created this
tea room and all these things. So I kind of
just bullet point out all the things that I want
to include, and then from there you're kind of connecting
the dots of like what am I what is the arc?
(31:49):
What am I trying to actually say? Like what are
the messages and the meanings and things that I'm really
trying to get across that will resonate with myself because
if it resonates me, it will resonate with others. And
so I just start kind of I'm very type A,
so I just kind of start going down the line
and then eventually you have this like huge, huge ow
line and then from there you're like, okay, now now
(32:13):
we begin, Now we begin.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
But it was challenging. It was challenging because.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
I was like, where where are the rules?
Speaker 5 (32:22):
And like and where if you're queer but we're not equal,
how does that fit in?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
And how do you know?
Speaker 5 (32:28):
It was just like so many things to kind of
navigate and figure out.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Well, the character of Ivy is a writer, she's half Japanese,
and she's kind of wild and Freya definitely resembles your
girlfriend Becca. So I'm curious where the line was for
you between fantasy and reality.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
I think for me it's kind of like I I
kind of outline the core truths. You know, it was
like and back when I met we come from two
different worlds, we come from two different backgrounds, and yeah,
and it's like that that was kind of it. You know,
like an Ivy kind of mirrors. You know, she's half Japanese,
she's a writer, she's trying so I try to have
(33:14):
like some like even with the lesbian Jesus thing. It's
like she's like famous in the Sapphic.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
World, like I was trying to find like little.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
Things, but also you know there is it's fiction, so
you know something like there's no way I could ride
a horse ever in a million trillion years.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Like there's things that Ivy is and dues that aren't
me that aren't me. Thank you, I can do anything,
Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
It starts with the core, just like the core themes,
and then from there I kind of build it out.
And then that's when you know the fiction and fantasy
kind of you know, evolves within the personalities because I
am not Ivy and Becca is not Freya. But in
this hyperreality world, if we were to meet in this
(34:03):
space at this tea room, what would that look like?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Did she read chapter by chapter or did she read
it at the end.
Speaker 5 (34:12):
Well, so I told her the idea and then we
like talked it out and then and then she's read
the whole book and loved it. But you know what
the funny part is is that she doesn't love like
regency uh period pieces, and so she was like, of
course you're going to do this in a period and
a regency era. So I just but she loved it,
(34:35):
and she she got through it for sure, and it
was but it was funny because I was like, oh, yeah,
you don't because every time I watch Pride and Prejudices,
I have to like watch it solo, like you know,
every partner has their things.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Like she loves to watch really sad.
Speaker 5 (34:50):
Stuff, Like anytime I'm out of town, she's like I
would call her and she's like sobbing on the couch
because she just watched like a penguin die or like
some kind of something, and then you know, and then
when you're together, you have your certain.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Things that you watch.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
I will say I'm actually usually not a period piece
person either.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Okay, okay, So how was your experience?
Speaker 1 (35:12):
So I really liked the book, and I think that
it sort of transcends that stereotype because there's so many
other fine elements in it. Yes, okay, yeah, right, I
want to see this made into a.
Speaker 5 (35:25):
Film me too, that's my dream, or like a TV show.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, it would be really I think it would be
so fun.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (35:33):
Yeah. I just I love the world and especially the
bridge where everyone meets, and I think there's so many
cool possibilities. So you know, hopefully we can manifest that
for the future and I can direct that. That would
be awesome.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Okay. So you've had so many eras you've had pop star, actor, director, author,
and with each one it feels like your style evolves too.
We've seen the bucket hats, we've seen bold suits, we've
seen dreamy pastels.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Which aside from fashion, even though I really love your fashion,
I shouldn't even have even brought it into this equation.
How have you figured out what's you in each of
these eras? How has your voice evolved with fashion?
Speaker 5 (36:31):
You know, you want to feel your best and you
want to feel confident. So sometimes I look back at
photos and outfits that just look absolutely outrageous, But like,
in that moment, at that time, I felt so good
and that's all that matters, saying Haley, you know, like
we live and learn, but in that moment, I felt amazing,
(36:55):
and like that's what counts.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
But what I wear that today? Maybe I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
What have you discovered about yourself as you've grown through
all of these coming of age moments? Like when you
have you ever looked at a ten year old photo
of you?
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:13):
You know how people like look at those photos and
are like, what would you tell yourself?
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
I guess that's what I'm curious about.
Speaker 5 (37:21):
For me, I would just tell her like it's well,
it's gonna be okay. But also that like being yourself
is like the most powerful thing you can do, and
I think so many people in life spend so many
years trying to not be themselves.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Like that's that's the arc, right.
Speaker 5 (37:41):
Like your born society and culture tell you tells you
that you need to be a certain way, and so
every year you're stripping that away, and every year you're
you're changing yourself to really fit in. And then you
hit a point where you almost do like a full circle.
And I think that's where that I'm kind of in
that curve where I'm kind of going back to who
(38:03):
I have always been. And that's like a really hard
thing to do because you're dismantling so many lies and
things that have been said to yourself from yourself. And
I think the whole journey in life is just going
back to who you've always been and like acknowledging that
and then celebrating that. And I think that's the most
(38:25):
like freeing thing that we can do as people for ourselves.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
I felt you get a little emotional when you talked
about being yourself is like the most powerful thing that
you can do. Why did that make you emotional?
Speaker 5 (38:40):
I always get emotional. I always get emotional just talking
about just well. I get emotional if, like someone says
a nice thing to me, So it's not a surprise,
but it's I think it's emotional because so many people
in this world do not believe that they can be
(39:00):
themselves and thrive and have a good life and feel
safe to be themselves, you know, especially in this political
climate and just this world that we live in. It's
just that's such a simple thing, and yet it's like
one of the hardest things to do. You know, it's
revolutionary to be yourself.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I think it is. And also people talk about joy
is revolutionary.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah, yeah, I love that too.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Yeah. Well, I think embracing queer joy is something you
talked about at the beginning of our conversation, and it's
also in your acknowledgments you write my dream is to
create hopeful narratives and expand queer representation through music, films,
and novels for the rest of my life. Thank you
for supporting me in every medium and for giving me
the confidence to share my truth. I love you all
(39:50):
so much. What does queer joy look like for you
in your life right now?
Speaker 5 (39:56):
I mean, I think just being outside, hanging out with friends.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Like basics, like basic.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
Things like cooking, like learning of recipe and cooking a
really amazing meal. Because I think for queer people in general,
and so many oppressed people, were just exhausted, and so
I think refueling ourselves and filling our cup up is
(40:28):
like radical and like the very important, because if we're
able to show up, then other people are able to
show up too. And so for me, it's that like,
you know, being present and doing what I can to
be true to myself. And for me, that's telling, you know,
sharing stories and world building and creating content that can
(40:53):
hopefully make someone smile or cry in a comforting way.
And that's my part, you know, that's the way I'm
able to connect with people and find ways to to
ignite hope.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
You mentioned your dad earlier that he would hand out
flyers with you. Yeah, so he was always supportive.
Speaker 5 (41:18):
Oh yeah, Like he wears the Kyogo hat all over
Los Angeles County. So like, if you see a tall
white man with a Kyoko hat on, that's my dad.
He's like, yeah, he's He's on the front lines sharing
the Kyoko joy.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
And queer content.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
If if someone were to like lay out all of
your work next to each other, the album covers the films,
all of it, what's the connective tissue? What is something
that would make them say that's.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Haley's women point. That's very very easy question. That's a
great question.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
I would actually like to lay that out that would
be cool.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
I think women and like warm tones.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
It would aesthetically warm, yeah, like I.
Speaker 5 (42:11):
Love orange and yellows and like very inviting.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Tones.
Speaker 5 (42:19):
So I tend to everything that I do, whether it's
music video and then directing the movie for Girls Like Girls,
just like just everything is warm because I want people
to feel safe when they're watching things or digesting things.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
So I would say those two things.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
So your first novel, Girls Like Girls, was inspired by
your song that we keep talking about in the music video. Obviously, Yeah,
when are we getting a visual for this new book
because I can already picture it.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Hopefully it's successful.
Speaker 5 (42:51):
I mean, for me, for Girls Like Girls, it became
a New York Times bestseller and then I was finally
able to get the film greenlit because of that success.
And so you know, if everyone supports where there's room
for us and it becomes this you know, successful thing,
then I think it would be easier to be like, hey, Hollywood,
(43:12):
make this into a TV show and listen, all of
the queer TV shows unfortunately get canceled after like one
or two seasons, So we deserve something that's thriving for
at least two seasons, like come on, so I'd like
to manifest that because a visual for where there's room
for us would be the dream, Like that's the dream.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yeah, and I feel like you are lead costume designer
even though you have other titles on set.
Speaker 5 (43:40):
Oh my god, that's so funny. My girlfriend would say otherwise,
she styles me a lot. She's got better fashion taste
than I do.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
But I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
That's really funny. She does have good style, Yeah, she does. Okay,
before we come to our actually, I have a question
about Becca and your relationship. Do you feel like that
love healed you in any way?
Speaker 4 (44:06):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (44:06):
Yeah, I mean I think every relationship either just heals
you in a way of like that's not what I
want or this is what I want. And I the
love that Back and I have is just has gone
beyond what I thought love was because I think it's
you know, because we come from such different backgrounds, We've
(44:29):
had to navigate so many things and have had to
like really communicate and find if we don't know how
to communicate, we learn how to communicate. And it's just
really cool to find a partner that is willing to
do the work, because when two people don't want to
show up in a relationship, then you know it either
(44:51):
is dysfunctional or it falls apart.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
And with Beck and I.
Speaker 5 (44:54):
It's just like we've always wanted to do our part
and like show up and that's like the coolest, coolest,
coolest kind of love to have because it feels like
we can navigate anything and also like laugh and have fun,
Like we have so much fun and I get it's funny.
Like we both were like we were kind of like
(45:16):
hesitant to call each other best friends because I was
always like I want to.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
I was like, I want a partner. I don't want
a best friend. I have a best friend.
Speaker 5 (45:25):
Like you know, and but it's been interesting to kind
of do this whole full circle. I mean, we were
we've been together for over seven years now.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
And she is my best friend, but we both were
kind of just like I don't know, I don't there
was something about it that we didn't want to admit.
Speaker 5 (45:43):
But going through you know, seven years of love, like
she is my best friend and partner and it's just
and again going back to like my younger self, I
mean my dream was.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
To have a love like this.
Speaker 5 (45:58):
I didn't even know that the kind of love existed
for me, and so I think it was. It's been
so healing to just be like, holy shit, Haley, like
you got you got the girl, you know, and like
it's it's amazing and it's healthy and it's continues to
evolve and grow. And so that's been like really cool
(46:20):
because most of my career was re writing about all
of my toxic relationships and situationships like I would be
in like love triangles and I'd be gasolic, like I.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Just would be in so many things.
Speaker 5 (46:36):
And so it's exciting to get to like start a
chapter of where like where does my art go when
like that part is healed and that's you know, where
there's room for us, which has been really cool.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
First of all, I love that you're such a crier.
Speaker 5 (46:51):
I am also I'm I'm like, yeah, I'm like just
water works.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Two four seven.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Something happened when I turned to my six. The faucet
turned on and I just couldn't turn it off ever again.
So I feel you so deeply.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
And thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
For sharing so much of your heart. I could tell
that was that came through you, that wasn't even like
from you in terms of in terms of writing about
the love and the meet cute in the book. Are
there any easter eggs that we can look out for
while reading that maybe we wouldn't know unless you know,
(47:32):
like we heard you talk about it, that were things
that actually happened between you and Becca.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (47:38):
I mean the main thing is that tear room thing.
I always try to like put some of my song
titles in there and find ways to like I named
the horse Satrin, like just finding like little things. So
all my fans who've been there from the beginning, they know,
they know, and I know, but maybe new fans may
(48:00):
not have. And so there's like little easter eggs like
that throughout. And I don't want to spoil the end
of the book, but the end of the book has
like a really nice just kind of like bow to
to just our journey, which has been really cool.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
We're going to do something that is called speed read.
So here's how it works. We put sixty seconds on
the clock and we're going to see just how many
rapid fire literary questions you can get through. Okay, it's
so intense, Haley, I just literally.
Speaker 5 (48:33):
Just got acid reflex. I'm not prepared.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
I saw you swallow.
Speaker 5 (48:39):
Okay, I'm slow, Okay, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Okay, ready, set. What is one literary trope you would
ban forever.
Speaker 5 (48:48):
Just like queer trauma in general, or like the gay
best friend. That's one dimensional, that's just like the sidekick?
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yes, yes, okay. What's one trope that you'll defend with
your life?
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Falling in love with an emotionally unavailable person?
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Okay, I feel personally attacked. What's the book that you
wish you had written?
Speaker 5 (49:10):
Well, I mean Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugoes like the
best book of all times?
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Thanks so much? Taylor Jinge's read.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
I made my grandma read that recently. Okay, it's his
favorite book to recommend.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Oh.
Speaker 5 (49:20):
I love Rick Rubin's book The Creative Act, A Way
of Being Like, I continue to reread it over and
over again, like I can't stop.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
That is such a good one. What is the best
book you've never read?
Speaker 5 (49:33):
Pachinko by Men Ginley. I've been really wanting to read
it and it's supposed to be phenomenal and I have
yet to read it, but it's on my list.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
Who would narrate your memoir audiobook?
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Oh? Easy, Sandra Bullock.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Oh that was not exactly aloud. That's so great. What
book shaped the way you see the world?
Speaker 5 (49:54):
Oh my god, the four Agreements? It changed my life.
Like I live by the agreements?
Speaker 1 (50:02):
I do too, and I try and reread it once
in a while.
Speaker 5 (50:04):
Yeah, I do, I do. There's also the fifth Agreement.
There's like many. There's some extras that you could add
on to your your bookshelf.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
I didn't know. Okay, I have a final question of
the day here at bookmarked. What have you bookmarked this week?
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 5 (50:21):
Actually, I just save something on Instagram and I'm going
to read it to you. Your intuition, your nervous system,
and your values can help you make decisions. Trust the
three guides inside of you, one in doubt, close your
eyes and feel your truth.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
By Young Pueblo.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
Thank you so much, Thank you, Young Piblo, and thank you.
Now I must stay. The light in me sees the
light in you. There's something magical happening on TikTok. A
(50:57):
whole world of people who don't just read books bring
stories to life. It's where I first heard about bet
read by Emily Henry. Post after post pulled me in
until I finally picked it up myself. And wow, it's
one of those stories that stays with you long after
the last page. Here, stories don't end when you close
the book. They live on through reviews, read alongs, and
(51:19):
fandom castings. It's a place for quiet discoveries, for the
stories that find you when you're not even looking. TikTok
turns reading into connection, where curiosity fuels conversation and learning
feels alive. Because when we share what moves us, challenges
us and makes us feel seen, the story keeps going.
So what's the story that's found you? Start your hero's
(51:40):
journey at TikTok dot com, slash explore more and if
you want a little bit more from us, come hang
with us on socials. We're at Reese's Book Club on
Instagram serving up books, vibes and behind the scenes magic.
And I'm at Danielle Robe Roba y come say hi
and DM me. And if you want to go nineties
(52:03):
on us, call us. Okay, our phone line is open,
so call now at one five zero one two nine,
one three three seven nine. That's one five oh one
two nine, one three three seven nine. Share your literary
hot takes, book recommendations, questions about the monthly pick, or
(52:24):
let us know what you think about the episode you
just heard, and who knows, you might just hear yourself
in our next episode, So don't be shy, give us
a ring, and of course, make sure to follow Bookmarked
by Reese's book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast,
or wherever you get your shows. Until then, see you
in the next chapter. Bookmarked is a production of Hello
(52:47):
Sunshine and iHeart podcast. It's executive produced by Reese Witherspoon
and me Danielle Robe. Production is by Acast Creative Studios.
Our producers are Matty Foley, Brittany Martinez, Sarah Schleid, and
Production assistant is Avery Loftus. Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder
are the executive producers for a Cast Creative Studios. Maureene
(53:09):
Polo and Reese Witherspoon are the executive producers for Hello Sunshine.
Olga Kaminwa, Kristin Perla and Ashley Rappacort are associate producers
for Reese's book Club. Ali Perry and Lauren Hansen are
the executive producers for iHeart Podcasts.
Bookmarked by Reese's book Club is presented by Apple Books.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Danielle Robe. Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's book Club.
We have two great conversations this week. In a little bit,
we're talking to Haley Kyoko, singer, songwriter, actor and author.
Her new book, Where There's Room for Us is a
queer romanticy for the ages, and it may or may
not have some real life inspiration. But before we jump in,
(00:28):
it's the first Tuesday of the month. You know what
that means. It's time to reveal the newest Reese's book
Club pick. Greese take it away.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Hi, Bookmarked listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Hi, Danielle, I'm so excited to share that our November
Reese's book Club pick is Wild Dark Shore by Charlotte McConaughey.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Read along with us.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Okay, it's your turn to jump in, So grab Wild
Dark Shore and read with us all month long. And
as you go, I need you to email me voice
memos with your thoughts, your questions, your hot takes, because
at the end of the month, we're going to sit
down with Charlotte again and dig into all the juicy details,
and I want to play her Your questions okay, miss Charlotte,
(01:12):
welcome to the club. Thank you. I owe you a
big congratulations. Your book, Wild Dark Shore is the November
Reese's Book Club Pick. So for those of us picking
up your book for the very first time, if you, Charlotte,
had the opportunity to hand a future reader this book
walking onto a plane, or after a breakup or looking
(01:33):
to start over in some way, what would you say?
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Oh, okay, I would say, be ready for a bit
of a gut punch. This is the story of a
father raising his three children on a very remote and
stormy island. They're the last inhabitants until the night of
a particularly bad storm washes a woman onto their shore,
(01:58):
and she's going to change their life forever. It's a
romantic Gothic mystery, and it's an Eco thriller, and it
is about how far we go for the people we love.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I really love that, Charlotte. I have to tell you
and everybody listening that it pulls you in right away,
and it's very high stakes, it's very emotional. Is there
a scene or a moment that you're especially proud of writing.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
I don't want to give any spoilers, but I'm proud
of the ending, and the ending is a bit contentious.
You know, a lot of feedback from people who either
love it or they're kind of annoyed with me, But
I'm very proud of it. And then there's lots of
kind of scenes throughout that I feel, you know, sometimes
you just feel like you kind of nailed that moment
(02:52):
or you've found a way to really, I guess, get
to the heart of what you're trying to say. And
then there's other scenes where you feel like you didn't.
You've got to kind of go back and rework them.
But it's always fun when you get it on the
first try.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
One of the moments that you feel like you got
to the heart of it. Would you be willing to
read a paragraph or two for us.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Yes, I can. I'm obviously I'm not going to read
the ending, but now I will read. If this is
just a tiny moment, which is the first scene that
we get, we are introduced to Dominic Salt, who's the
father on this island. You are not meant to have favorites,
But my youngest is that if only by a hair
(03:34):
and with a gun to my head, if I really
really had to answer and not because we're most alike,
that is my oldest and me, not because we at
least alike that is my daughter and me. Maybe it's
because he's curious and kind and so smart it can
make your eyes water. Maybe it's because he whispers to
the wind and hears its voice in return. Most likely
(03:56):
I don't know why, but it may also be because
for one brief moment long ago, I wished him dead.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
So that's like quite an intense thing to say about
your child, and it kind of sums up Dominic and
his struggle and his conflict.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Why did you read that moment? What do you like
about it.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
As a sort of opening paragraph to someone, to a character.
I think it kind of lets you in to quite
a deep, a deep kind of core of conflict that
dom has about himself and his relationship with his children.
He's an extraordinary father. He sort of only exists as
a father in a way. Now that his wife has
(04:37):
passed away, he's raising these three children alone. It's like
he's become this one part of himself and nothing else.
And there is a crux of grief and trauma there
that sort of forms this relationship he has and this
conflict he has around that moment when he sort of
(04:58):
wished his child wasn't really, I think fuels this sort
of guilt and grief and shame, and it's something that
he has to work really hard throughout the course of
the book to shed himself of. So I think, you know,
as just an opening paragraph, it just gives us this
little hint of an insight into this inner turmoil that
(05:21):
he's feeling.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
It's also interesting because we don't see father's portrayed that
way very often. We see mothers who are overtaken by parenthood.
So I find it interesting that you chose a father
to deliver this information. Who did you write this book for, Charlotte?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Very good question. I've never been asked that before. There's
always a component where it's for yourself, because it's something
to that you're trying to understand or grapple with or
make sense of within yourself. You know, this is a
book about fear, specifically the fear of raising children in
(06:06):
a collapsing world, in a world that's ravaged by ecological crisis,
and our responsibilities around having children and to our children,
you know, how do we talk to them about this?
What does love mean in the face of loss, all
these big questions I was really grappling with as I
had You know, this book came to me at the
(06:26):
same time as I had my children, and so there's
a part of it that is that it's for myself
in terms of trying to understand this new role of
motherhood and what's happening in the world. But it's also
it's absolutely for my children. It is a love letter
to them, you know that. I hope they will read
one day and know that this was a cry out
(06:51):
and it was a way of me just not giving
up this fight and being able to sort of say
to them one day, like, I didn't give up for you.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You know. I just heard ZD. Smith last night in
an interview say that the actual act of writing is optimistic.
The action means that you're trying for something. So even
though you're tackling a really sometimes dark and intense subject matter,
your writing is optimistic. Is that what it felt like
(07:24):
when you were writing it.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Yeah, it's always that sort of especially when you're writing
about this subject matter, you are constantly kind of walking
that line between optimism and pessimism. You're you know, day
to day, I feel like that I'm kind of I'm
not never quite sure which way I'm going to go,
but the act of sitting down and putting pen to paper,
trying to make sense of it, trying to make something
(07:50):
beautiful out of this chaos, trying to find the little
glimpse of love and light within this sort of big
doc Maelstrom is it is. It's an act of defiance
and hope. You know, even when I didn't feel that way,
It's like you have to become that in order to
(08:12):
make something that's that's worth worthwhile.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Mm hmm, well said, I want our readers this month
to let their imagination run wild while they're reading your book.
I think there's so much to picture, not just the characters,
but the landscapes that you paint. And I can't help
but cast when I read books nowadays. I know you
have a film and screenwriting background, so I'm really wanting
(08:39):
to know your thoughts, which I know we'll say for
the end of the month, but for all of you
club members, please send us your casting choices because we
may play your voicemail at the end of the month
when we get back to check in with Charlotte. Are
there any questions that you have for listeners that you're
dying to know.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Maybe their favorite seed story. I love hearing that there's
always it's funny. There's a lot of these kind of
little moments all of the youngest child throughout the book,
he sort of, I guess, brings this new woman into
their lives and kind of seduces her into their world
(09:18):
by telling her the stories of seeds. And everyone I
know has a different favorite. So I'd love to kind
of hear which one most excited you or moved you.
And I'd love to know what you think of the ending,
you know, whether it's infuriating or just right.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
You know, Charlotte, I actually think that most of my
favorite books have frustrating endings because they didn't expect them.
Do you have an opinion unhappy endings? Are you a
person who believes in happy endings, who likes to write them,
who wants to write the unexpected? What do you think?
Speaker 4 (09:57):
I think every book has a It has an ending
that is right for that book, and not all books
are right to have a happy ending. Some need them,
absolutely need them. Some books need something that is perhaps
more nuanced or that gets to the heart of what
(10:18):
the book is actually trying to say so. For me,
the ending of this book is kind of bittersweet. I'm
not going to say too much about it, of course,
but I think it's you know, it's genre specific, it's
character specific, it's story specific. What the ending needs to
be and I certainly don't think they all need to
be happy, but we do need some sense that, like,
(10:42):
it wasn't just totally for nothing, and that this is
the most depressing thing ever.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Thank you for that. I think everybody's going to be
happy to hear that as they dive into the book
this month. My last question for you before we check
back in with you at the end of the month
is who was your first car when you found out
you were a Reese's Book Club pick?
Speaker 4 (11:06):
I well, I ran. I think I ran to tell
my partner, and he was funny because we always used
to joke. We always used to joke about one day
Reese would come knocking and read my book and we
would just laugh because it was so silly, and so
of course I had to run and tell him this,
and we were both just like, oh.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
My god, do you feel like you manifested that?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Maybe like kind of ironically manifested it.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think we did. I
think we totally brought that into being some crazy way
and then yeah, just like my mom, my friends, everyone.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
It's so fun, Charlotte. I got to host a Reese's
book Club party right before Shinaway, which is Hello Sunshine's
annual event, and so many of the Reese's book Club
authors were there, and it's really like this sorority and club.
They all have a group chat. They're so supportive of
(12:09):
one another. So I just I'm so excited for you
because I feel like, whether you know it or not yet,
you have like a whole new sisterhood ahead of you.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Oh wow, that is not something I expected. So I'm
very happy and excited to hear that.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, it actually gives me chills when I think about it.
I know it's corny, but it's really special. So huge
congratulations and I can't wait to talk to you at
the end of the month.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Thank you so much, Sanielle. Really lovely to chat.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Welcome back to Bookmarked by Reese's book Club. All right,
let's travel from our climate future to our Victorian past
or at least Haley kiok version of it. You probably
know Hailey from her Disney channel days her music or
as a boundary breaking queer icon literal icon, but today
(13:10):
we're diving into her world as an author. Her debut novel,
Girls Like Girls, became a New York Times bestseller, inspired
by her hit song and music video of the same name.
And now she's back with a brand new novel. Okay,
it's called Where There's Room for Us, and it is
out today. It's set in the Victorian era, and it
follows Ivy, an American poet with a bit of a
(13:31):
playgirl reputation. It also follows Freya, a British aristocrat torn
between her family's expectations and an undeniable pull towards Ivy.
Does any of this sound familiar? Okay, I'm just gonna
give you the tea because we're all friends here. Haley
shared that the couple at the center of the story,
Ivy and Freya, was really inspired by her and her
(13:53):
real life girlfriend now fiance, Becha Tilly. And if there's
any bachelor fans out there, you know Becka Tilly. One
of the many things Haley does well is make creative
reinvention look effortless. But we all know nobody's life is
effortless and Hailey's path has been anything but simple. Hers
is a story of risk and reinvention and radical imagination,
(14:17):
forged at a time when few blueprints existed. She has
truly built a world on her own terms, and it's
been fueled by a lot of self trust, queer joy,
and the belief that rules are meant to be rewritten.
So if you want to hear about what it really
takes to create the life and the art that you
want to see in the world, you're in the right place.
(14:39):
Let's turn the page with Hailey, Kioko, Hailey, Lesbian Jesus.
Welcome to Bookmarks.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
Thank you so much for having me, Daniel, I'm so
happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
No, I'm so happy to have you here. All of
the producers are so happy to have you here. You
have a lot of fans in the house. I kind
I feel like I'm in the presence of queer pop divinity.
So thank you for blessing us.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
Thank you so much. I breathe rainbow. It it just
shoots out. You can't see it, but you can hear it.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
So while I do feel like we are not worthy,
we are very excited. How did Lesbie and Jesus come about?
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (15:22):
You know, it was really funny. I was on tour
in twenty eighteen. It was my debut album, Expectations, and
I would do all these q and as and me
and greets before the shows, and people would just start
calling me lesbian Jesus. And I thought it was like
I felt like I was out of the loop, like
as a millennial. So I was like, oh, people are
calling people lesbian Jesus, like this is a thing that
(15:44):
I need to like catch on too. And then I
remember like going online and then being with one of
my friends and being like, no, like they call you
lesbian Jesus. You don't just call everyone lesbian Jesus. And
I was like what. So it was it was kind
of cute because because I always wanted to have a
nickname growing up, and my name is just Haley and
(16:05):
that's just what people called me. And I never excelled
in sports where I had like a cool nickname, and
so it feels like it's healing my inner child's having
like a nickname, even if it is lesbian Jesus.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
You're such a writer through and through. I was going
over your catalog of work, and you write songs, you
write comics, you write films, and this is just your
latest piece of prose. It's a book called Where There's
Room for Us, and I love that it's set in
the Victorian era. And we're going to talk all about
the book, but I need to do something with you first.
(16:44):
I need to do a little exercise with you. Transport
yourself into the Victorian era for one day. What are
you wearing, what are you doing? Who are you flirting with?
What are you snacking on?
Speaker 5 (16:56):
Wow, that's tough, because, like my the dream scenario is
in the book. Like I was like, I'm falling in
love with a girl and We're going to the tea
room and we're walking the bridge and you know where
all these things and so like my inspiration of like
just fantasy went into Where There's Room for Us because
(17:18):
I also think, like you know, I'm obsessed with pride
and prejudice. And when I would watch that film, like
I thought, I was like mister Darcy, like that was me.
And so I would try to imagine myself in these
situations and I would always go, well, I would I
want to be there because I'm Asian, I'm gay, I
probably want to be thriving. You know, all these scenarios
(17:41):
and so, I mean, we'll get into the book later,
but that's why I ended up kind of being inspired
doing like a queer hyperreality version of it, because when
you ask me that question, like what am I doing there?
Like the reality is is I don't know. I don't
know if I exist in that space, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Well, to your point, something I found so interesting is
it's a love story about queer people and it's sidestepping
this sort of like queer tortured trope that we see
in so many books and films. She just wants to
be gay and to be happy. Were you inspired by
Bridgerton at all? Like where this alt universe exists?
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Almost My original inspiration was Brandy Cinderella.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I don't know if you ever saw that real it's
the best.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Yeah, And like the Prince was Asian, you know, so
I just for me that was like the beginning of that.
But I also feel like Bridgerton has shown the world
that people want to watch period pieces and support that
and those are kind of hard to get made. But yeah,
I just like when I love Bridgerton, but I just
(18:49):
always want it like really gay, and I want to
go like further into it and I also am really
inspired by like sisterhood and sister dynamics, and I have
an older sister and a younger rather and just like
sibling dynamics in general, and so those were kind of
like the starting off branches of growing.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
This the world that I've always.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Wanted to be in.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Before reading your book, I didn't necessarily think of the
Victorian era as especially sexy.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, there's a lot of layers.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
There's the clothes, the heat, there's I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
If we're necessarily comfortable.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
There just feels like there's like a lot of rules
and pretense and ways to do things before you actually
do the actual thing for sure. Sure, is there anything
that you found doing research and writing that you feel
like is surprisingly hot about the Victorian era?
Speaker 5 (19:37):
I mean, I think what makes it sexy and hot
is like it's like a no phone era.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
It's there's like you have.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
To wait for months for a letter to.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Arrive, and like there's just something super romantic about that
time of just like what are they thinking and not
knowing what they're thinking and not knowing what they're up to,
when in twenty twenty five we know what everyone's up
to all the time and if we don't know, we
want to know immediately, and so I think just removing
that aspect of it and being set in the Victorian
(20:11):
era just makes it automatically romantic.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Okay, wait, correct me if I'm wrong. But did you
meet Becca your partner on the Internet?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
No?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I didn't. Where'd you guys meet?
Speaker 5 (20:25):
So our origin story is I had my album release
party in twenty eighteen for Expectations, and I had invited
like all these people, and so she was like a
plus one at the party and she walked in and
I was like, oh my gosh, that's my Bachelor. But
(20:46):
I like like foolishly pretended like I didn't know who
she was from The Bachelor. Listen, everyone's guilty of this,
Like you just pretend that you don't know, but of course.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
You know always.
Speaker 5 (20:58):
But I met her and she was I was very
interested in her, but she was trying to hook me
up with her younger sister, and so I had drinks
like set up with her younger sister a couple days later,
and the sister bailed and so back I told me
she felt bad for me, so she went instead and
(21:19):
we like had this date at the Chateau Mormon and
we were like there for like hours, we just like
hit it.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Off, and that's our origin story.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
So for me, I've never really been able to write
about our story, and.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
So I was like, wow, it would be so cool to.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Have, you know, my next book be inspired by our
meet cute and like this idea of like her trying
to hook me up with her younger sister, but then
we end up falling love instead, and so that was
kind of like the seed that kind of grew this
this entire idea and following kind of our love story
within that.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
I love the idea that this romanticy is based off
off of some real life events. Yes, why choose the
Victorian era, Like it's not really known for freedom of expression?
Why set a queer love story there?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
No? I know, I love hard things.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
I just like I've always wanted to see myself in
something like Pride and Prejudice or for Jerton. So I'm
just like obsessed with that era because it's so romantic
and sexy. And my main focus in life is to
create hopeful queer content, whether it's through music, whether it's
through novels or films like that is just my dying
(22:34):
wish just to make as much content as possible. And
when I was developing it, I realized I was like,
I don't know if I can have a hopeful ending.
I was like, if this is reality, I don't know
if I thrive in this space. And so that's when
I was like, oh, maybe it's a queer hyperreality. Like
what does a world look like if you could be
(22:55):
queer in the eighteen hundred, like freely and like meeting
up at the bridge at night and like having these
lavish parties and like, but you're also a woman, and
there's so many like hypocritical things that we navigate as women,
just in twenty twenty five. And so I was like, Okay,
what if I get rid of one discrimination, but two
gay men can inherit land and continue the family line,
(23:18):
but two women can't. And so it kind of created
this interesting dynamic where I kind of set it up
where becus character Freya is put in a situation where
she has the pressure to marry a man and continue
the family line, and she meets my character Yeah, and
(23:39):
it's like what does that look like? And how does
that unfolds? And I feel like everyone can relate to
I don't know when you're when you're dating, and then
when you find your person, Like every family has expectations
of like who you're gonna be and who you're going
to date and who you're gonna love, no matter what.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Your background is. I just was really.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
Excited and inspired about taking our met cute, putting it
in the Victorian era and then letting it unfold and
being like, is it still hard? Is it still hard
to be yourself even if if you have certain rights,
but you don't have all you know?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
And what does that look like?
Speaker 1 (24:27):
So you're kind of known for working things out in
your writing, like you've explored your sexuality and girls like girls.
I know your EP Satrine was inspired by your experience
with post concussion syndrome catharsist. Feels like it's a driving
force for you. And in hearing what you just said
about expectations and replacing one prejudice for another, I think
(24:51):
it's a better term. Was there anything that you were
working out in the book.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (24:57):
I mean I think just as an artist in general,
you're inspired by things that you've experienced and then you
kind of put them, You kind of put your experience
in a box and then you're like, how do I
navigate within this box and within these rules and what
would happen and how would I feel? And so it
(25:17):
kind of challenges you to really go deeper into just
the human experience. And so that's what's so exciting about writing.
And you know, I love writing music, but being able
to really go extremely deep into, you know, ninety thousand
(25:37):
words of how you feel and what it would be
like to be in that space is really freeing. And
it's been something that I didn't realize I was missing
in my life, and it's been one of the most
rewarding mediums I've dipped my toes in.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
So I'm curious as to why, because my instinct would
be that music is so emotional that it would give
you that, But did why writing this book?
Speaker 5 (26:06):
Well, listen, I love writing music. I love performing music.
I think music is incredible. But you know, when you're
writing a song, there's a time limit, there's like the
challenge is different, right, It's like, when you're writing a song,
it's like, how do I tell my story with the
most minimal amounts of words and how do I make
(26:27):
that impact like immediately? And so that is like an
extreme challenge within itself and then the challenge with the novel.
But the plus side is that you could talk about
someone's jacket for like three pages, like you know, like
you can just go into this that you just don't
have that time within a song. And so they both
(26:49):
of the mediums have certain parameters and challenges within creation.
But I just think that I had more to say
and so being able to have the freedom, you know,
I talk about this a lot, like I started directing
my music video is very early on in my career.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
And you know, when you're directing a.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Music video, you're budgeting things out. You have to pay
for everything on screen, every single thing you have to
pay for. But when you're writing a book, it's like
you could put a dragon in there, you could have
an explosion, you could have like you eighty foot castle
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
It is like, yeah, you're literally doing yeah.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
And so I think, like I started my career and
very like here's your parameters, and how do you create
in these parameters? And then this was kind of the
first medium where I was like, there are no parameters, how.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Do you create that way?
Speaker 5 (27:42):
Which is also just as challenging where you're like, okay,
where does one begin. I can do anything where do
we want to take it? And so that's been really
exciting for me.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I'm so curious about your process and the difference between
writing and writing a book. When you say where do
you begin when you're writing a song, do you begin
with a feeling?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
It depends.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
I love sitting in silence, So a lot of my
best melody ideas come from being on a plane or
being in the car and I'll like sing to myself
and just like voice note. But for me, it's melody.
So I'm very melody driven, like plucking a melody out
on the synth. Like one of my songs found my friends,
the Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb. I just like plucked that
all on the synth and then we just hooked up
(28:29):
the mic and I just started like scatting over that melody.
And so for me, it's very melody driven. But then
sometimes it's like, ugh, I have this thing that I've
been going through, and you have kind of like in
your notes on your phone of like these ideas of
songs that you're wanting to create, and obviously the more
that you're writing, the more you're.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Just able to do it.
Speaker 5 (28:51):
But yeah, music is it comes naturally to me. I
think the thing that connects all the things that I
do is just sorytelling. It's like I think for me,
I always grew up feeling like I wasn't enough or
I didn't belong. I didn't feel like I was worthy,
I didn't feel I didn't feel main character energy, And
so my whole life is just like can I be
(29:14):
a pop star? Can a pop star look like this?
Can I write a book? Can I direct a film?
Is there space for me? When you know under five
percent of films are directed by women, Like you know,
just all these challenges, and I think for me, I'm
just so attracted to things that I've never done before,
and can I do it?
Speaker 1 (29:36):
It's kind of the question, and what's the feeling that
you're after? What are you chasing? Like when you do
do one of these things that feel near impossible.
Speaker 5 (29:47):
I think it's I think it just goes back to
like the inner child of like feeling enough, feeling like
I belong. But it's like self, it's like self love,
it's self validation of like, oh, even if no one
connects to this, this is something that I've accomplished that
speaks true to me, that I believe in and It's
(30:08):
something that I was able to do from A to
Z and so I think it's just kind of healing,
healing that that part. And I think all of us
have a specific whole in our heart that we're trying
to patch up and mend or just grow and nurture,
and through art is a really great way.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
To do that.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
If you start with melody when you're writing songs, where
do you begin when you're writing a novel? Uh?
Speaker 5 (30:35):
I think for me, I'm really trying to go back
to my truth. And with Girls Like Girls, it was
an interesting experience because the music video I had already
created and then I was inspired to tell my story.
And then it was like for Girls Like Girls, a
challenge was how do I tell my story through pre
(31:00):
created characters in a scenario that wasn't my scenario? So
I was like, how do I how do I insert
my story through that? So that was like the extreme
hardship within my first debut novel.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
And then with Where There's Room for Us, the hardship
was where, like, where are the rules.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
And where are the boundaries within this this this kind
of like hyper reality world that I'm creating. And so
when I begin, it's kind of like, well, what is
the truth? What am I trying to say?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
You know?
Speaker 5 (31:29):
So I started with, well, I really want to include
something that kind of mirrors the meatcute that I had
with Becca at the Chateau Ormont, So I created this
tea room and all these things. So I kind of
just bullet point out all the things that I want
to include, and then from there you're kind of connecting
the dots of like what am I what is the arc?
(31:49):
What am I trying to actually say? Like what are
the messages and the meanings and things that I'm really
trying to get across that will resonate with myself because
if it resonates me, it will resonate with others. And
so I just start kind of I'm very type A,
so I just kind of start going down the line
and then eventually you have this like huge, huge ow
line and then from there you're like, okay, now now
(32:13):
we begin, Now we begin.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
But it was challenging. It was challenging because.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
I was like, where where are the rules?
Speaker 5 (32:22):
And like and where if you're queer but we're not equal,
how does that fit in?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
And how do you know?
Speaker 5 (32:28):
It was just like so many things to kind of
navigate and figure out.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Well, the character of Ivy is a writer, she's half Japanese,
and she's kind of wild and Freya definitely resembles your
girlfriend Becca. So I'm curious where the line was for
you between fantasy and reality.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
I think for me it's kind of like I I
kind of outline the core truths. You know, it was
like and back when I met we come from two
different worlds, we come from two different backgrounds, and yeah,
and it's like that that was kind of it. You know,
like an Ivy kind of mirrors. You know, she's half Japanese,
she's a writer, she's trying so I try to have
(33:14):
like some like even with the lesbian Jesus thing. It's
like she's like famous in the Sapphic.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
World, like I was trying to find like little.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
Things, but also you know there is it's fiction, so
you know something like there's no way I could ride
a horse ever in a million trillion years.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Like there's things that Ivy is and dues that aren't
me that aren't me. Thank you, I can do anything,
Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
It starts with the core, just like the core themes,
and then from there I kind of build it out.
And then that's when you know the fiction and fantasy
kind of you know, evolves within the personalities because I
am not Ivy and Becca is not Freya. But in
this hyperreality world, if we were to meet in this
(34:03):
space at this tea room, what would that look like?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Did she read chapter by chapter or did she read
it at the end.
Speaker 5 (34:12):
Well, so I told her the idea and then we
like talked it out and then and then she's read
the whole book and loved it. But you know what
the funny part is is that she doesn't love like
regency uh period pieces, and so she was like, of
course you're going to do this in a period and
a regency era. So I just but she loved it,
(34:35):
and she she got through it for sure, and it
was but it was funny because I was like, oh, yeah,
you don't because every time I watch Pride and Prejudices,
I have to like watch it solo, like you know,
every partner has their things.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Like she loves to watch really sad.
Speaker 5 (34:50):
Stuff, Like anytime I'm out of town, she's like I
would call her and she's like sobbing on the couch
because she just watched like a penguin die or like
some kind of something, and then you know, and then
when you're together, you have your certain.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Things that you watch.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
I will say I'm actually usually not a period piece
person either.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Okay, okay, So how was your experience?
Speaker 1 (35:12):
So I really liked the book, and I think that
it sort of transcends that stereotype because there's so many
other fine elements in it. Yes, okay, yeah, right, I
want to see this made into a.
Speaker 5 (35:25):
Film me too, that's my dream, or like a TV show.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, it would be really I think it would be
so fun.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (35:33):
Yeah. I just I love the world and especially the
bridge where everyone meets, and I think there's so many
cool possibilities. So you know, hopefully we can manifest that
for the future and I can direct that. That would
be awesome.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Okay. So you've had so many eras you've had pop star, actor, director, author,
and with each one it feels like your style evolves too.
We've seen the bucket hats, we've seen bold suits, we've
seen dreamy pastels.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Which aside from fashion, even though I really love your fashion,
I shouldn't even have even brought it into this equation.
How have you figured out what's you in each of
these eras? How has your voice evolved with fashion?
Speaker 5 (36:31):
You know, you want to feel your best and you
want to feel confident. So sometimes I look back at
photos and outfits that just look absolutely outrageous, But like,
in that moment, at that time, I felt so good
and that's all that matters, saying Haley, you know, like
we live and learn, but in that moment, I felt amazing,
(36:55):
and like that's what counts.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
But what I wear that today? Maybe I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
What have you discovered about yourself as you've grown through
all of these coming of age moments? Like when you
have you ever looked at a ten year old photo
of you?
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:13):
You know how people like look at those photos and
are like, what would you tell yourself?
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
I guess that's what I'm curious about.
Speaker 5 (37:21):
For me, I would just tell her like it's well,
it's gonna be okay. But also that like being yourself
is like the most powerful thing you can do, and
I think so many people in life spend so many
years trying to not be themselves.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Like that's that's the arc, right.
Speaker 5 (37:41):
Like your born society and culture tell you tells you
that you need to be a certain way, and so
every year you're stripping that away, and every year you're
you're changing yourself to really fit in. And then you
hit a point where you almost do like a full circle.
And I think that's where that I'm kind of in
that curve where I'm kind of going back to who
(38:03):
I have always been. And that's like a really hard
thing to do because you're dismantling so many lies and
things that have been said to yourself from yourself. And
I think the whole journey in life is just going
back to who you've always been and like acknowledging that
and then celebrating that. And I think that's the most
(38:25):
like freeing thing that we can do as people for ourselves.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
I felt you get a little emotional when you talked
about being yourself is like the most powerful thing that
you can do. Why did that make you emotional?
Speaker 5 (38:40):
I always get emotional. I always get emotional just talking
about just well. I get emotional if, like someone says
a nice thing to me, So it's not a surprise,
but it's I think it's emotional because so many people
in this world do not believe that they can be
(39:00):
themselves and thrive and have a good life and feel
safe to be themselves, you know, especially in this political
climate and just this world that we live in. It's
just that's such a simple thing, and yet it's like
one of the hardest things to do. You know, it's
revolutionary to be yourself.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I think it is. And also people talk about joy
is revolutionary.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah, yeah, I love that too.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Yeah. Well, I think embracing queer joy is something you
talked about at the beginning of our conversation, and it's
also in your acknowledgments you write my dream is to
create hopeful narratives and expand queer representation through music, films,
and novels for the rest of my life. Thank you
for supporting me in every medium and for giving me
the confidence to share my truth. I love you all
(39:50):
so much. What does queer joy look like for you
in your life right now?
Speaker 5 (39:56):
I mean, I think just being outside, hanging out with friends.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Like basics, like basic.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
Things like cooking, like learning of recipe and cooking a
really amazing meal. Because I think for queer people in general,
and so many oppressed people, were just exhausted, and so
I think refueling ourselves and filling our cup up is
(40:28):
like radical and like the very important, because if we're
able to show up, then other people are able to
show up too. And so for me, it's that like,
you know, being present and doing what I can to
be true to myself. And for me, that's telling, you know,
sharing stories and world building and creating content that can
(40:53):
hopefully make someone smile or cry in a comforting way.
And that's my part, you know, that's the way I'm
able to connect with people and find ways to to
ignite hope.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
You mentioned your dad earlier that he would hand out
flyers with you. Yeah, so he was always supportive.
Speaker 5 (41:18):
Oh yeah, Like he wears the Kyogo hat all over
Los Angeles County. So like, if you see a tall
white man with a Kyoko hat on, that's my dad.
He's like, yeah, he's He's on the front lines sharing
the Kyoko joy.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
And queer content.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
If if someone were to like lay out all of
your work next to each other, the album covers the films,
all of it, what's the connective tissue? What is something
that would make them say that's.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Haley's women point. That's very very easy question. That's a
great question.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
I would actually like to lay that out that would
be cool.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
I think women and like warm tones.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
It would aesthetically warm, yeah, like I.
Speaker 5 (42:11):
Love orange and yellows and like very inviting.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Tones.
Speaker 5 (42:19):
So I tend to everything that I do, whether it's
music video and then directing the movie for Girls Like Girls,
just like just everything is warm because I want people
to feel safe when they're watching things or digesting things.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
So I would say those two things.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
So your first novel, Girls Like Girls, was inspired by
your song that we keep talking about in the music video. Obviously, Yeah,
when are we getting a visual for this new book
because I can already picture it.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Hopefully it's successful.
Speaker 5 (42:51):
I mean, for me, for Girls Like Girls, it became
a New York Times bestseller and then I was finally
able to get the film greenlit because of that success.
And so you know, if everyone supports where there's room
for us and it becomes this you know, successful thing,
then I think it would be easier to be like, hey, Hollywood,
(43:12):
make this into a TV show and listen, all of
the queer TV shows unfortunately get canceled after like one
or two seasons, So we deserve something that's thriving for
at least two seasons, like come on, so I'd like
to manifest that because a visual for where there's room
for us would be the dream, Like that's the dream.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yeah, and I feel like you are lead costume designer
even though you have other titles on set.
Speaker 5 (43:40):
Oh my god, that's so funny. My girlfriend would say otherwise,
she styles me a lot. She's got better fashion taste
than I do.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
But I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
That's really funny. She does have good style, Yeah, she does. Okay,
before we come to our actually, I have a question
about Becca and your relationship. Do you feel like that
love healed you in any way?
Speaker 4 (44:06):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (44:06):
Yeah, I mean I think every relationship either just heals
you in a way of like that's not what I
want or this is what I want. And I the
love that Back and I have is just has gone
beyond what I thought love was because I think it's
you know, because we come from such different backgrounds, We've
(44:29):
had to navigate so many things and have had to
like really communicate and find if we don't know how
to communicate, we learn how to communicate. And it's just
really cool to find a partner that is willing to
do the work, because when two people don't want to
show up in a relationship, then you know it either
(44:51):
is dysfunctional or it falls apart.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
And with Beck and I.
Speaker 5 (44:54):
It's just like we've always wanted to do our part
and like show up and that's like the coolest, coolest,
coolest kind of love to have because it feels like
we can navigate anything and also like laugh and have fun,
Like we have so much fun and I get it's funny.
Like we both were like we were kind of like
(45:16):
hesitant to call each other best friends because I was
always like I want to.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
I was like, I want a partner. I don't want
a best friend. I have a best friend.
Speaker 5 (45:25):
Like you know, and but it's been interesting to kind
of do this whole full circle. I mean, we were
we've been together for over seven years now.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
And she is my best friend, but we both were
kind of just like I don't know, I don't there
was something about it that we didn't want to admit.
Speaker 5 (45:43):
But going through you know, seven years of love, like
she is my best friend and partner and it's just
and again going back to like my younger self, I
mean my dream was.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
To have a love like this.
Speaker 5 (45:58):
I didn't even know that the kind of love existed
for me, and so I think it was. It's been
so healing to just be like, holy shit, Haley, like
you got you got the girl, you know, and like
it's it's amazing and it's healthy and it's continues to
evolve and grow. And so that's been like really cool
(46:20):
because most of my career was re writing about all
of my toxic relationships and situationships like I would be
in like love triangles and I'd be gasolic, like I.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Just would be in so many things.
Speaker 5 (46:36):
And so it's exciting to get to like start a
chapter of where like where does my art go when
like that part is healed and that's you know, where
there's room for us, which has been really cool.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
First of all, I love that you're such a crier.
Speaker 5 (46:51):
I am also I'm I'm like, yeah, I'm like just
water works.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Two four seven.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Something happened when I turned to my six. The faucet
turned on and I just couldn't turn it off ever again.
So I feel you so deeply.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
And thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
For sharing so much of your heart. I could tell
that was that came through you, that wasn't even like
from you in terms of in terms of writing about
the love and the meet cute in the book. Are
there any easter eggs that we can look out for
while reading that maybe we wouldn't know unless you know,
(47:32):
like we heard you talk about it, that were things
that actually happened between you and Becca.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (47:38):
I mean the main thing is that tear room thing.
I always try to like put some of my song
titles in there and find ways to like I named
the horse Satrin, like just finding like little things. So
all my fans who've been there from the beginning, they know,
they know, and I know, but maybe new fans may
(48:00):
not have. And so there's like little easter eggs like
that throughout. And I don't want to spoil the end
of the book, but the end of the book has
like a really nice just kind of like bow to
to just our journey, which has been really cool.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
We're going to do something that is called speed read.
So here's how it works. We put sixty seconds on
the clock and we're going to see just how many
rapid fire literary questions you can get through. Okay, it's
so intense, Haley, I just literally.
Speaker 5 (48:33):
Just got acid reflex. I'm not prepared.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
I saw you swallow.
Speaker 5 (48:39):
Okay, I'm slow, Okay, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Okay, ready, set. What is one literary trope you would
ban forever.
Speaker 5 (48:48):
Just like queer trauma in general, or like the gay
best friend. That's one dimensional, that's just like the sidekick?
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yes, yes, okay. What's one trope that you'll defend with
your life?
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Falling in love with an emotionally unavailable person?
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Okay, I feel personally attacked. What's the book that you
wish you had written?
Speaker 5 (49:10):
Well, I mean Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugoes like the
best book of all times?
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Thanks so much? Taylor Jinge's read.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
I made my grandma read that recently. Okay, it's his
favorite book to recommend.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Oh.
Speaker 5 (49:20):
I love Rick Rubin's book The Creative Act, A Way
of Being Like, I continue to reread it over and
over again, like I can't stop.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
That is such a good one. What is the best
book you've never read?
Speaker 5 (49:33):
Pachinko by Men Ginley. I've been really wanting to read
it and it's supposed to be phenomenal and I have
yet to read it, but it's on my list.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
Who would narrate your memoir audiobook?
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Oh? Easy, Sandra Bullock.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Oh that was not exactly aloud. That's so great. What
book shaped the way you see the world?
Speaker 5 (49:54):
Oh my god, the four Agreements? It changed my life.
Like I live by the agreements?
Speaker 1 (50:02):
I do too, and I try and reread it once
in a while.
Speaker 5 (50:04):
Yeah, I do, I do. There's also the fifth Agreement.
There's like many. There's some extras that you could add
on to your your bookshelf.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
I didn't know. Okay, I have a final question of
the day here at bookmarked. What have you bookmarked this week?
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 5 (50:21):
Actually, I just save something on Instagram and I'm going
to read it to you. Your intuition, your nervous system,
and your values can help you make decisions. Trust the
three guides inside of you, one in doubt, close your
eyes and feel your truth.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
By Young Pueblo.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
Thank you so much, Thank you, Young Piblo, and thank you.
Now I must stay. The light in me sees the
light in you. There's something magical happening on TikTok. A
(50:57):
whole world of people who don't just read books bring
stories to life. It's where I first heard about bet
read by Emily Henry. Post after post pulled me in
until I finally picked it up myself. And wow, it's
one of those stories that stays with you long after
the last page. Here, stories don't end when you close
the book. They live on through reviews, read alongs, and
(51:19):
fandom castings. It's a place for quiet discoveries, for the
stories that find you when you're not even looking. TikTok
turns reading into connection, where curiosity fuels conversation and learning
feels alive. Because when we share what moves us, challenges
us and makes us feel seen, the story keeps going.
So what's the story that's found you? Start your hero's
(51:40):
journey at TikTok dot com, slash explore more and if
you want a little bit more from us, come hang
with us on socials. We're at Reese's Book Club on
Instagram serving up books, vibes and behind the scenes magic.
And I'm at Danielle Robe Roba y come say hi
and DM me. And if you want to go nineties
(52:03):
on us, call us. Okay, our phone line is open,
so call now at one five zero one two nine,
one three three seven nine. That's one five oh one
two nine, one three three seven nine. Share your literary
hot takes, book recommendations, questions about the monthly pick, or
(52:24):
let us know what you think about the episode you
just heard, and who knows, you might just hear yourself
in our next episode, So don't be shy, give us
a ring, and of course, make sure to follow Bookmarked
by Reese's book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast,
or wherever you get your shows. Until then, see you
in the next chapter. Bookmarked is a production of Hello
(52:47):
Sunshine and iHeart podcast. It's executive produced by Reese Witherspoon
and me Danielle Robe. Production is by Acast Creative Studios.
Our producers are Matty Foley, Brittany Martinez, Sarah Schleid, and
Production assistant is Avery Loftus. Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder
are the executive producers for a Cast Creative Studios. Maureene
(53:09):
Polo and Reese Witherspoon are the executive producers for Hello Sunshine.
Olga Kaminwa, Kristin Perla and Ashley Rappacort are associate producers
for Reese's book Club. Ali Perry and Lauren Hansen are
the executive producers for iHeart Podcasts.
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