August 19, 2025 • 47 mins
What’s the juiciest genre out there? Celebrity memoir, obviously. This week, Danielle is joined by celebrity memoir connoisseurs Jeff Hiller and Chelsea Devantez to break down the messiest moments ever put to print. Together, they chat about the boldest, most iconic tell-alls in Hollywood history. From emotional overshares to unforgettable name drops, they explore what makes a celeb memoir great, and build the ultimate Mount Rushmore of must-reads.
Books mentioned:
My Good Side: A Memoir by Scheana Shay - find it HERE
One More Time by Carol Burnett
The Half of It: A Memoir by Madison Beer - find it HERE
The First Time by Cher
Inside Out by Demi Moore - find it HERE
There Was a Little Girl by Brooke Shields - find it HERE
My First Five Husbands... And the Ones Who Got Away by Rue McClanahan - find it HERE
My Story, My Dream by Celine Dion - find it HERE
Matriarch: A Memoir by Tina Knowles - find it HERE
Simple Dreams: A Musical Memoir by Linda Ronstadt - find it HERE
My Life So Far by Jane Fonda - find it HERE
Bossypants by Tina Fey - find it HERE
Be My Baby by Ronnie Spector - find it HERE
Troublemaker: Surviving Hollywood and Scientology by Leah Remini - find it HERE
Open Book by Jessica Simpson - find it HERE
Mommie Dearest by Christina Crawford - find it HERE
I Shouldn’t Be Telling You This by Chelsea Devantez - find it HERE
Actress of a Certain Age by Jeff Hiller - find it HERE
I Said Yes to Everything by Lee Grant - find it HERE
There Are Worse Things I Could Do by Adrienne Barbeau - find it HERE
Society’s Child by Janis Ian - find it HERE
We're Going to Need More Wine by Gabrielle Union - find it HERE
Patti LuPone: A Memoir by Patti LuPone - find it HERE
Handbook for an Unpredictable Life by Rosie Perez - find it HERE
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Danielle Robay (00:00):
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club is presented by Apple Books.
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. I'm your host,
Danielle Robe, and this week we're having a little kiki.
Do you think everybody has a book in them?
Chelsea Devantez (00:18):
No?
Because I've read some of them and I said, this
shouldn't have been a book Sina.
Jeff Hiller (00:26):
Che Yeah, I feel like everybody probably does have a
book in them, But are people willing to put the
thing out there?
I don't know.
Danielle Robay (00:35):
Now. Before I introduce you to our pop culture savants,
I have a little story. It'll be quick, I promise.
So picture this. It's twenty ten. I'm wearing a choker
necklace and uggs, you know the kind with the fur
on the outside, and I'm obsessed with watching award show
speeches on YouTube. There was this one speech in particular
(00:55):
that struck me. It was Will Smith at the Teen
Choice Awards, and he said something that I've never forgotten.
He said there were two keys to life, running and reading.
And since twenty ten I found that to be so true.
Every answer is in a book, and for me and
for our guests today, we found a lot of those
(01:18):
answers in celebrity memoirs. Now, if you're thinking, Danielle, this
is silly. What am I going to learn from Joan
Rivers or Joan Collins that pertains to my life? This
episode might just change your mind. Today I've brought in
two experts in the field. My friend Chelsea Devantees is
a writer, comedian and host of the podcast Glamorous Trash,
(01:41):
where she recaps celebrity memoirs with the same enthusiasm that
people recap Real Housewives. She is brilliant, hilarious, and a
true scholar of the genre. Joining her is Jeff Hiller,
a writer, comedian, actor, and brand new Emmy nominee for
his role in Somebody Somewhere. He's also a devoted, like
(02:03):
truly devoted, celebrity memoir reader with the kind of sharp
wit and big hearted perspective that makes every conversation brighter.
And here's the plot twist. Both of them published their
own memoirs over the last year, so yes, they are
celebrity memoir super fans and authors themselves. Today's show is
(02:25):
all about celebrity memoirs and what we can learn from them.
Trust me, you are in the right place. And usually
I say it's time to turn the page. But today
I think we got to roll out the red carpet
for Chelsea Devantes and Jeff Hiller. Chelsea, Jeff, welcome to
(02:46):
the club.
Chelsea Devantez (02:47):
I'm so happy to be in the club.
You know, I don't get to the club these days
very often, so if it's through a podcast, it's probably
the only way I'm going club.
Danielle Robay (02:54):
In me too, the only club I can be a
part of.
Jeff Hiller (02:57):
I could be in the club before six pm.
Danielle Robay (03:00):
So, Jeff, you were recently on Chelsea's podcast and the
two of you self identified as twin flames.
Chelsea Devantez (03:07):
Well, I would say it was more something I thrust
upon Cheff and forced him to accept, and then I
also invited him to join the twin flames cults I've
heard about, but he hasn't responded.
Danielle Robay (03:17):
I haven't been aware of the cult, but I do
know what a twin flame is, and I think twins
sort of have some esp So I want to test
your connection. The first question is what does your twin
flame order for brunch?
Chelsea Devantez (03:31):
Okay, I know from Jeff's book that he likes avocado,
but it also made him sick, so maybe he's not
going for an avocado filled brunch. I'm gonna go with
Belgian waffles with a side of eggs and a side
of hashbrowns.
Jeff Hiller (03:46):
That's actually kind of true. I do like to have
a protein and then I like to have a little
sweet something. Yeah that's really true.
Chelsea Devantez (03:52):
Yeah, little cabo.
Danielle Robay (03:54):
Yeah, Okay, so she wasn't so off.
Jeff Hiller (03:56):
No, not at all. I'm going to go eggs Florentine.
Chelsea Devantez (04:02):
Oh my gosh, Jeff, thank you for the fanciness.
Unfortunately, the income bracket I grew up in does not
allow me to know what florentine is.
But I would say I would order eggs. So we're
half there.
Danielle Robay (04:14):
I'm going to move on to something we know a
little bit better, which is music. What song does your
twin flame kill at karaoke? M? I'm gonna guess I
can't make you love me by baring rape?
Jeff Hiller (04:28):
Oh what a banger that is. But my go to, No,
my go to is you Ought to Know by Alanis Moris.
Chelsea Devantez (04:35):
Set shut Up. That is my number one listen to
play song this week.
Danielle Robay (04:40):
Yes, anyways, what do you think that your twin flame
is here on earth to do?
Chelsea Devantez (04:48):
I think it is to make other people feel seen
and treasured. M.
I was kind of kinna say the same thing.
Jeff Hiller (04:58):
I think it's about creating a space where you feel
safe to tell the truth.
Danielle Robay (05:06):
In a funny way.
Jeff Hiller (05:07):
In a funny way.
Danielle Robay (05:08):
Yeah, well sure I have to add the funny.
Jeff Hiller (05:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that.
Danielle Robay (05:13):
Well, you're both here because you are voracious readers and
true connoisseurs of celebrity memoirs, and out of all the
literary genres out there, what is it about celebrity memoirs
that had such a big impact on you? Jeff, I'd
love to hear yours first.
Jeff Hiller (05:29):
Well, I am an actor, and I tried to be
an actor for a good couple decades before I had
any sort of success, and so I really.
Chelsea Devantez (05:41):
Found a lot of hope in celebrity memoir.
Jeff Hiller (05:44):
I think a memoir just in general, I love hearing
people's stories. I love listening to people. I love meeting people,
getting to know them and stuff. But there is something
about reading an actor's memoir where you're.
Chelsea Devantez (05:55):
Like, where'd you get the part where you can get
a book deal?
Jeff Hiller (06:00):
And I find that very thrilling and also hopeful. Yeah,
gives me a little inspiration.
Danielle Robay (06:08):
Definitely, I totally agree with that.
Chelsea Devantez (06:10):
I mean, Carol Burnett's memoir talks about how she got
an agent.
Jeff Hiller (06:15):
Jeff is nodding, because you know the story she.
Chelsea Devantez (06:16):
Talks about how she got an agent, and I, with
one of my best friends, Ashley, was like, this is
how Carol Burnett did it. This is how we're going
to get agents. And so I learned a lot of
chips and tricks. Was always looking in the nooks and
crannies for like how to survive. And then I think,
what surprised me is how much darkness.
Is in celebrity memoirs.
And I say that as a compliment as someone who
(06:38):
has lived a dark life.
You sort of celebrity.
Memoirs were thought it was like these trashy throwaway books, right,
But in every story of our most popular, most successful
woman succeeding, there's so much insanity she goes through. And
I was thinking it was just happening to us regular regulars.
And to realize that like all the bodies, I mean,
(07:00):
Delta Burke went through, or you know, all of the
horrors that happened to Jane Fondo for standing up for
like what she believed in, or like all of the
horrible bosses they had to survive. Ashley Judd, you know,
just to get a role, and so to me, I
came to realize it was this genre that has all
the deepest, darkest details of a human, especially a woman's
(07:21):
journey in life, and they were the books that were
talking most honestly about this thing that society was trying
to throw away or tell us not to talk about.
Danielle Robay (07:30):
Why do you think they get written off as frivolous.
Chelsea Devantez (07:32):
I think it's absolutely on purpose. I think they wanted
us to ignore how powerful these books are. And I
think anytime something comes specifically feminine, it immediately must be
trashed so.
That its power is removed.
Because when something is extremely feminine, it's Taylor Swift bringing
back the economy with a tour, It's Beyonce bringing back
with it towards the Barbie movie. It's like, it's the
(07:54):
romance genre as something we read in literature. It's it's
all of these things that have so much power, and
so they try and culturally downplay them so that the
feminine cannot take over.
Danielle Robay (08:05):
That's how I feel interesting.
Jeff Hiller (08:07):
That is true.
Danielle Robay (08:09):
Well, Chelsea, on your podcast, you talk about one memoir
a week basically, and we met because I was a
fan and.
Chelsea Devantez (08:17):
So on the podcast hot Plug.
Danielle Robay (08:20):
True, but it started because I was a fan genuinely,
and one of the reasons I was a fan is
you break down these memoirs and you're really honest. You're
honest about what makes a good memoir, what makes a
memoir that you could kind of pass reading? What do
you think is the secret sauce to a great celebrity memoir?
Chelsea Devantez (08:38):
Well, I have questions at the end of my podcast
this little test that I came up with myself, which
is why it has the terrible name of the book.
Total Test. It's my take on the Bechdel test. And
I realized that, like when I love, a memoir.
Always has three qualities, which is one the author was
vulnerable in telling the truth. So they didn't just come
here to be like and here's how hard did it?
You could too, or like and everything was fine. They
(09:00):
really like gave something as they told their story. The
second question is was it entertaining to read? Because I
hear to read a boring book right. And then the
third question I ask is did it elevate your life
in some way?
Because I also don't.
Care if we're just like, if it's just like gossip
and trash, Like I want to get something every time
(09:22):
I devote reading an entire book, even if it's Gina
Sche's memoir, which was little less than two hundred pages
a big font. But it's like, if I'm going to
read a book, I'd like to walk away with something.
And if I don't walk away with something, why did
you write it?
Danielle Robay (09:35):
Chelsea? For anybody out there who doesn't know, what's the
Bechdel test? Oh?
Chelsea Devantez (09:39):
The Bechdel test is a test that Alison Bechdel comic
artists came up with. It started as like a funny
observation that then became this very true test because so
many movies failed the Bechdel test, which is in a movie,
are there two women in the movie? Okay, that's one
of the questions. Second question, do they talk to each other?
(10:03):
This could also be a TV show.
Are there two women? Do they talk to each other?
Third thing?
Was it about anything other than a man? And it's
a really sad game to play because a lot of
things you'll love are going to fail the test.
Danielle Robay (10:16):
It's shocking. When I was in college, I learned about
this and basically the only thing at that point is
The Gilmore Girls was the only thing that passed.
Chelsea Devantez (10:24):
Yes, wow, Oh my gosh, and also, gosh, what a
great show, Jeff.
Danielle Robay (10:31):
When is the best time for someone to write a memoir?
Jeff Hiller (10:33):
Oh, I don't think that there is necessarily like you
have to be over X number years. I think it's
just do you have a story to tell? Because I
completely agree with all of Chelsea's points. The only thing
I would add is I want to feel like you're
being authentic, which I think is kind of what you
were saying with being vulnerable. Yeah, every once in a
while you can sniff someone trying to, like, I don't know,
(10:54):
pretend to be vulnerable, yes, And I don't like that.
Chelsea Devantez (11:01):
But oh and Madison Beer wrote a memoir at twenty
four which people were making fun of, and I think
it's one of the best because she talks about a
lot of horrible things that teenage girls are going through.
But she's writing it twenty four and I just thought like, Oh,
if she'd waited to write this, I bet some of
these stories wouldn't have made it in and they wouldn't
feel so present with what it's like to be a
teenager and have nude photos of you shared online and
(11:23):
then you become a global superstar.
Danielle Robay (11:25):
And I just thought that was I would love to
that she wrote it so young. That is really well said.
How many memoirs do you get? I'm not going to
name names, but there's an actress who has like five memoirs,
and I was thinking to myself, I don't know if
you get five.
Chelsea Devantez (11:39):
Yes, I think you're talking about Tori Spelling, But I
want to tell you Shirley McLean has seventeen?
Danielle Robay (11:44):
Whoa seventeen?
Jeff Hiller (11:46):
But aren't a lot.
Of them about like this is when I was really
into this particular thing, like you know, like this is
when I was in New Mexico and really into crystals,
and this is when I was really into past lives.
Chelsea Devantez (11:57):
You know. It's kind of like it's a snapshot for life.
Yeah, It's almost as if she like, yeah, she journals
here three months and she's like, send it to print.
It's perfect. Another memoir.
Jeff Hiller (12:08):
Like David Sedaris, you could call his books memoirs. They're
really probably more essay collections. But I think like he
has enough to say, and he's got a lot of books,
and I'll read all of them.
Chelsea Devantez (12:18):
So I don't know.
I also think when someone writes another memoir, it is
a lot like movie sequels, where if it's amazing. You're
so nervous that they're doing this second one, and some
people know names Michelle Obama. They wait like eight months
and you're like, that wasn't enough time to memoir again.
You know, we went too fast.
Danielle Robay (12:38):
And so the first one was so good.
Jeff Hiller (12:40):
But then you have like.
Share and you're like, she's got enough life for a
second memoir.
Chelsea Devantez (12:46):
This is what's so funny about Cher.
She already had a memoir, and then she was like announcement,
I'm writing my memoir for the first time. And I
was like, are we just gonna pretend you don't already
have a memoir called My first time?
This is just a fun fact. I don't know why
it's in my brain.
Her editor for this memoir had to come and live
with her for an entire week to get that first
memoir out, So I can't even imagine what's going on
(13:09):
to get us the second memoir.
Danielle Robay (13:10):
That's so fun.
Jeff Hiller (13:14):
Fun.
Chelsea Devantez (13:14):
I mean, just think of Cher tweeting. That's where share starts.
That's how the transcript comes in.
Danielle Robay (13:19):
Oh, I love her. What are some of the pitfalls
that you see in celebrity memoirs.
Jeff Hiller (13:25):
I think sometimes people can be too interested in themselves
a little too navel gaisy, and you have to realize
that just because the story is really powerful and meaningful
to you, if you can't explain why it's powerful and
meaningful to you.
It just feels a little self indulgent.
And yes, I'm sure it's fascinating for you that your
great grandmother carried a sewing machine across a country.
(13:51):
But I don't care. I don't know your great grandma.
Chelsea Devantez (13:55):
I was going to say, I would ask them sort
of the these of their life or the thesis of
their core pain, because I feel like sometimes someone has
a lot of like stories to tell and you're like wow,
but then you get to the end and you're just
robbed of the literary experience because their life is still going.
There is no ending, right, and so you're just sort
of like and then it's over and you're like what.
(14:16):
And so I really like an emotional journey in a book.
But in order to do.
That, like Jeff said, you have to know what your
life has meant. You have to just still meaning from
the events, especially if you're writing it like before seventy
you you know what I mean, I need a little
thesis because we're not going to have.
An ending or the worst pitfall.
Oh my gosh, I've started clocking it as a curse,
(14:38):
which is that they introduce a new love interest in
the last few chapters.
Danielle Robay (14:44):
Oh, that's the worst.
Chelsea Devantez (14:45):
And you're like, not a cause they're trying to find
an ending, right. So it's like, and then I met
so and so, who is always gotten by the time
the book is published, and you're.
Like, they're in your memoir forever.
So I feel like, if you don't really know what
you're trying to pass on, you are going to end
up like going on a date and writing them into
your final chapter.
Danielle Robay (15:03):
That's such a good one, Chelsea. I've learned from your
podcast that there's always a psychic moment which you had,
and that is sort of like a I guess we
could call it like a trope. Are there any other
celebrity memoir tropes that you actually really love?
Chelsea Devantez (15:26):
Oh my gosh, it's so funny because I can now
I can only think of the ones I hate. But Jeff,
have you also noticed there's so many psychic moments and memoirs,
which I think speaks more to again people tapped into
the feminine. We're open to being like maybe a witch knows.
Jeff Hiller (15:37):
We know, we're not afraid to go woo woo.
Danielle Robay (15:40):
Yeah.
Chelsea Devantez (15:40):
So there's a lot of psychic moments.
The one moment that shows up the most across all
celebrity memoirs ever, and we have a game we play
called Dringo where I call them I say dringo, and
you drink because it's a bingo. The number one thing
that happens in almost every single celebrity memoir is that
they at some point they tell you their exact way.
(16:00):
Sometimes it happens a lot.
Jeff Hiller (16:02):
The misogyny of our world is that that that is
where you hold value and how your body looks, and
how your body can appear.
To men right, yes, exactly and like or like, And
then I had no value because this was my way.
Chelsea Devantez (16:17):
And it's just like the amount of times, but I
love one.
Jeff Hiller (16:21):
Demi Moore said in her uh in her book when
she said, I don't want to think about how much
I weigh anymore. All of my journals are just talking
about how much I weigh.
And I thought that was I thought that was vulnerable.
Danielle Robay (16:35):
And in her memoir it makes sense too, because she
talks so much about her journey of beauty and.
Chelsea Devantez (16:42):
One of the best career is just objectification.
Danielle Robay (16:45):
So I love asking our guests what they've bookmarked this week.
It can be a weird fact if, unquote, something you've
saved on Instagram, something you've texted your husband or your
best friend. What have each of you bookmarked?
Chelsea Devantez (16:59):
Let me go look, let me go live on the
scene to my own Instagram.
And see what I'm a bookmarking.
Jeff Hiller (17:07):
I bookmarked fun ties because I'm neckties.
I'm trying to find something to wear to the Emmy's,
so I'm looking at fun weird gay clothing.
Danielle Robay (17:22):
Chelsea likes original clothing. She made a very cool dress
for her book launch, and so I like this whole
original tie idea.
Jeff Hiller (17:31):
Jeff, Yes, Chelsea, we are twin flames.
Danielle Robay (17:34):
Thank you.
Chelsea Devantez (17:35):
I've been trying to.
Danielle Robay (17:35):
Tell you this.
Chelsea Devantez (17:36):
I've been trying to let Jeff know, Chelse.
Danielle Robay (17:40):
I think I think you let them know.
Chelsea Devantez (17:41):
I think I finally. I took two podcasts, but we're here.
I believe Jeff is a believer.
Danielle Robay (17:45):
Now was it?
Jeff Hiller (17:47):
I get it?
Chelsea Devantez (17:48):
He's like, who is this lady stalking me on my
book tour?
Danielle Robay (17:53):
I saved.
Chelsea Devantez (17:56):
I saved a chicken Caesar smashed taco recipe using peana
bread that I will never make, but really wanted to eat.
That doesn't even sound good, really a smash taco with
caesar salad in it.
Danielle Robay (18:19):
I need you guys to name names. What is your
favorite reveal that you've read in a memoir.
Jeff Hiller (18:25):
Oh, I've said this one so many times, but it
is my favorite. Bar none Brookshields said that Liam Neeson
proposed to her and then said, I'll be right back.
Chelsea Devantez (18:37):
I have to go on this trip to la and
then he never spoke to her again.
Jeff Hiller (18:40):
And I when that happened, I gasped, I was gagged,
I was gooped.
Chelsea Devantez (18:46):
I was flabbergasted.
Jeff Hiller (18:48):
Also, Rue McClanahan confesses that she had sex with Robert Giome,
who played Benson.
Chelsea Devantez (18:57):
Well, I thought that was pretty amazing pulled them.
Danielle Robay (19:01):
I didn't know about the Brooks Shields once. She also
has like four or five memoirs.
Chelsea Devantez (19:05):
Yes, she does, she does. Two of my favorite reveals
come from the same book.
It is Celine Dion revealing that she lost her virginity
the night that she won Eurovision and then when you
like read deeper, it's like she's losing it to her
manager who signed her when she.
Was twelve years old. So it's dark, It's really dark.
But then the other reveal is that she'd never taken
(19:26):
the subway before, and it's so intense for her that
it is a chapter in the memoir of like the
night she had to take the subway in Montreal to
get to a concert, and like how scary it was.
Danielle Robay (19:39):
Who do you think got too messy in their memoir?
Is there a thing?
Chelsea Devantez (19:42):
Is no such thing? No such thing? What a gift?
Danielle Robay (19:46):
Who didn't get messy enough?
Chelsea Devantez (19:48):
Tina Knowles, That's what I was gonna say.
Jeff Hiller (19:52):
I'd say Linda Ron's staff, who only mentions that she
was dating Governor Jerry Brown because it has to do
with this story about her house.
I was like, that's the.
Only information we're getting about the fact that you're dating
the governor of California.
She doesn't even.
Chelsea Devantez (20:11):
Talk about her. And then at one point she says
something about her kids.
Jeff Hiller (20:14):
And I was like, you have kids, so true? So
many Okay, if we had to do a celebrity memoir
Mount Rushmore, I want to play a game. And here
here's like a rule I'm throwing in. Everybody can can
(20:35):
veto one person from our celebrity memoir Mount Rushma.
Chelsea Devantez (20:38):
We're making the mountain together.
Danielle Robay (20:40):
We're making the mountain together.
Chelsea Devantez (20:41):
I got to.
Put Jane Fonda up there. Yes, it's just such a
It was two thousand and five, right right in a
time when they really were not delivering on good celebrity memoirs,
and she still did it, you know what I mean.
And it was just so formative for me personally. I
think she still continues to form Hollywood culture in such
(21:02):
a positive direction that i'd.
Danielle Robay (21:04):
Put her up there. My life so far, Jane Fonda,
I would.
Jeff Hiller (21:07):
Say Bossy Pants by Tina Fey interesting.
Danielle Robay (21:12):
Make your case, Jeff.
Jeff Hiller (21:13):
I think that she is the reason that every publishing
house now has to find their comedian who's going to
say their life through essays, because it was such a
monumental book like that is why Elena Dunham's book happened.
That's how Mindy Kaeln got her books, and she went
off and everything that's Phoebe Robinson got her books. That's
(21:34):
how I think that she made the case that this
is a marketable subgenre of the genre.
Chelsea Devantez (21:40):
Yes, and.
Jeff Hiller (21:43):
I think it's also a really good book. I really
like the book too.
Danielle Robay (21:46):
Okay, I think you won me over. I agree she's
on the Mountain.
Chelsea Devantez (21:49):
I love that.
Get her on that mountain, Chelsea. One more?
Can I bring to the council some options? Yes?
See Ronnie Specter's memoir. It's actually being made into a
movie with Zindia playing Ronnie Spector and she is so
the book talks about her marriage to Phil Spector and
(22:09):
she was pretty much his wife. Prisoner after she sings
be My Little Baby with the Ronettes, which is like
this huge song, but basically she's like imprisoned in his house.
And so a lot of Hollywood tales come through the
book as she's like breaking free and she truly runs
out of the house barefoot, with no belongings, nothing on,
(22:30):
in order to escape and continue to live her life.
And as we know, Phil Spector will be.
In prison for murder later.
And so it's just this crazy, unbelievable tale of a
book from someone I think doesn't get enough attention history.
But the book is so good and the book is messy.
Danielle Robay (22:48):
That's that's a good one.
Chelsea Devantez (22:50):
I'm thinking about Lea Remeni's memoir where she went all in.
She gave us from j Lo to tom Cruise to
scientology tea and that one formative. And then I also
think Jessica Simpson fully brought back the entire genre in
twenty twenty, which led to things like my podcast and
so those are the three I'm thinking of.
Jeff Hiller (23:09):
And Jessica Simpsons was the first one that was like
I'm going to really be vulnerable and raw. Yes, yeah,
and that and that, like I would say, Para Seltans
came from that, and Demi Moore is and all of
those people, Brittany, they all have like a black and
white photo on the cover.
Chelsea Devantez (23:27):
Yeah.
I think if you're like, why are there more celebrity
memoirs now, it is Jessica Simpson.
Danielle Robay (23:31):
Interesting, guys, I did not foresee this happening. I can
did not foresee Jessica Simpson being.
On Mount rushmoret Wait, have you not read it?
Okay? Can I admit something? Yeah, I can't get through it.
I was on a plane, okay, and a woman sitting
next to me was reading it and she was crying
and she loved it so much. And she finished it
(23:53):
and she looked at me, and we hadn't spoken the
whole flight, and she said, I don't know why, but
I think I need to give you this book. You
have Someone should read this besides me, like, you have
to read this. I've been trying to get past the
first five pages for two years.
Chelsea Devantez (24:06):
What yes, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna make a psychic
moment claim here, which is that there is something in
that book you don't want.
Danielle Robay (24:14):
To face, oh healthy, because it is just such a fun, delicious,
psychotic read that just throws John Mayer under a bus.
Chelsea Devantez (24:23):
We run them over, We run over Nick Lachey.
We revisit Tony Romo, we revisit the fat jeans.
We revealed they were size four, like it is.
Jeff Hiller (24:30):
She talks all about the Mickey Mouse Club and all
of the like how difficult it is to be a
child and be sort of like put out there, and
it is.
Chelsea Devantez (24:40):
She gives on Johnny Knoxville, she gives on her dad
kind of coming out by bringing a date to her wedding,
but then also forgetting his Bible on purpose like Sony's.
I'm just saying there is no reason why you can't.
I'm actually angraged. I'm is that a word?
I am aggrieved that you have not made it past
five pages, and I think there must be something keeping
(25:00):
the book from you until the time is right.
Danielle Robay (25:02):
Okay, Also, maybe I need to now. I feel like
I need to dig in.
Chelsea Devantez (25:07):
You know, books find you at the right time.
I'm a really firm believer in that you were supposed
to read certain books in certain moments. If you can't
read it right now, it's for a reason and it'll
find you another time.
Danielle Robay (25:16):
I actually really really agree with that. Okay, So we
have Jane Fonda, we have Jessica Simpson, we have Ronnie Specter.
Do we have a fourth?
Jeff Hiller (25:33):
Oh well, I had already said Tina Faye. But I'm
maybe you're right, Maybe you're right, we need to go.
Danielle Robay (25:38):
I actually, Jeff, I think I think Tina Fey has
to be up there because I agree with you. It's like,
what changed the genre? That's a great question to answer.
Chelsea Devantez (25:46):
Then I'm gonna veto Jane because I don't know she
was a genre. I think she just did it really well,
and I think you could reread it and you would
learn something new every time because it's so goddamn long,
and she's an icon.
But maybe we remove her.
Danielle Robay (25:59):
I don't know if I feel right about removing her.
Chelsea Devantez (26:01):
I'm just saying, listen, we need more, we need more
heads on the mountain. Mommy dearest, that was genre changing.
That is actually that actually is maybe the book that
started the term tell all memoir.
Danielle Robay (26:12):
That's it done, That's it. Wow, great call. We have
talked so much about other people's memoirs, but I'd be
remiss not to talk about the fact that both of
you have written your own memoirs. I love both of
the titles. Chelsea's is I shouldn't be telling you this,
but I'm going to anyway, and Jeff's is Actress of
(26:33):
a Certain Age, My twenty year trail to overnight success.
What did you learn from writing your own memoir?
Jeff Hiller (26:40):
Well, I think for me it was sort of personal.
Like I don't know that I learned anything about the
genre per se, but I definitely learned. I learned a
little self compassion for myself. Like I wrote a lot
about my childhood, which was and I know this is
going to be shocking, but I was quite bullied as
a gay child in nineteen eighties Texas.
(27:02):
Can you believe that? Anyway? It gained a lot of
compassion for myself.
And I also really did a lot to challenge myself
to be completely honest and not to sort of make
myself look better or sound better.
Chelsea Devantez (27:15):
And I thought I thought that was, yeah, something I learned.
You know, specifically about the genre. I have so much.
I hope I had always approached these books with some
level of compassion, but I have even so much more
compassion for when the writing doesn't hold up. Like there's
certain books where you'll read a paragraph and you're like,
(27:36):
I don't.
Know who she's talking to, but it's not me, Like we're.
Settling a score with like some random lady through this
generic paragraph where you're like you've lost the plot because
like you're just kind of settling scores from your life
and coming to my own memoir, like there were really
tiny little things where it's like, you know, I need
to talk about like this night before I got married,
(27:59):
where these four family members of mine like jumped in
this pool and after maybe having a lot of crazy
stuff happening, it was like this beautiful moment, right, And
I had never talked about my godsister who was there
that night and jumped in the pool with me, right,
But to bring it up in the chapter and be like,
you know and know he was there, the reader's like,
who NOI but for me in the text of My
(28:20):
Life and the offering of my life, it was like,
I can't not include this person who I actually haven't
written very well into the book because of whatever, whatever, whatever.
And so I think you're always in this struggle when
you are putting your life down. Of like Jeff said,
it's like I don't care what your grandpa did. But
then there's also times where like, if this is your memoir,
you're making certain literary decisions that's like for four people,
(28:43):
and as the reader, you have to suffer through it.
And I think that's something really interesting I think about
now with those books.
Danielle Robay (28:50):
I would not have thought about that. That's a great point.
Chelsea Devantez (28:53):
But that's also why I love the books, because they're
so weird and distinct. Things can happen and memoir that
just like don't happen in fiction, you know, or biography
or things like that. And then I would say, like,
what did I learn about myself?
Oh god?
I mean, I don't know if you had this, Jeff,
but like when you write it down, I just had
times where I'm like and I'm alive, Like this is crazy.
Jeff Hiller (29:16):
Like I totally had that, but kind of in a
different way where it was like, actually I did do that.
That's impressive that I did that. I can't believe I
did that. I can't believe I moved across the country
or whatever.
Danielle Robay (29:26):
Yeah, yeah, Jeff, you introduce your book as a book
by an actor who is not famous, and I would
like to say that after your eminem, we all beg
to differ. But given that idea, I'm curious why you
decided that was the moment to publish.
Jeff Hiller (29:46):
Well, because they'd let me, it's the main reason.
But I think, like, because I have read so many
actor things where they're like, I loved O those days
of waiting tables and then it was all over when
I was twenty.
Five and I had to go be a movie star.
Hmm.
And I just wanted to shout out to.
All the people who are just toiling, trying and wanting
(30:12):
to live their dream and even though people keep telling
them over and over again that this is a dumb
dream and that you don't deserve to have it, and
I just yeah, so I wanted to have that as
my inspiration and also to say like, we're worth it,
we do deserve to have that dream.
Danielle Robay (30:32):
Mm hmm. It's beautiful, really beautiful, Chelsea. Each of your
chapters are named after a woman who played a big
role in your life, and to me, that gets to
the point of memory when writing a memoir, and you
cover a lot of trauma in your book. You kind
of joked around at the beginning of our conversation that
you've lived a dark life. You make light of it
(30:54):
a lot, but you've gone through some really tough things,
and you're sharing stories that are not exclusively your own.
What considerations do you have to make for real life
people that you portray in your story.
Chelsea Devantez (31:09):
What I tried to.
Do even though I was telling other women's stories and
many times because I also wanted to not.
Just talk about me, but talk about all these.
Formative women and just sort of center these main characters.
And I don't think I told any story in that
book that was not mine to tell. And in the
few moments when I did where I was like, hey, mom,
(31:30):
I'm can I talk about your first marriage? Or like hey,
my godmother, like can I talk about your first three marriages?
I had express permission, and they loved it, and they
were always like, we want to write this book, so
like put it in there. You know, in places where
I felt like, this actually isn't my story to tell
in a way where it needs to be protected, and
yet I don't even know how to write my story
without it.
(31:50):
I went through hoops to not write.
That story, and only sometimes will a reader pop up
and be like, hey, how come this, And it's like, oh,
it's because I was fully cutting around a thing that's
not mine to tell in order to tell the story
I have to tell. So I thought about it a lot,
and listen, I have to a memoir is crazy because
(32:11):
your main characters are alive still. You got to see
them the next day, yeah, sometimes see them at the
book launch, and so you know, if you're not lighting
them on fire, you got to be able to stand
there and look them in the eyes. And so I
took a lot of consideration with it. And also I
I don't know if it was on purpose, but in hindsight,
it used it for healing in the way of like
(32:33):
sometimes when you've lived through dark stuff together, you can't
stand in that truth together.
It's too hard.
But when someone has written it down and you can
both face it through the page and then come together,
it can make your relationships a lot stronger. And there
were a lot of relationships I thought I was going
to ruin with my book that really surprisingly only got
better and stronger and more beautiful because I named a
(32:55):
thing we both knew that we were just too afraid
to admit to, and then that allow more intimacy.
Danielle Robay (33:02):
Where on the spectrum of Jessica Simpson to Tina Knowles,
did you guys want to land.
Chelsea Devantez (33:08):
I'm gonna say confidently that people would be like, maybe
say less after reading my but I think they're like, actually,
you gave it too much and you didn't need to.
I think I went that. I think I went Jessica
Simpson and a quarter.
Jeff Hiller (33:27):
All I wanted to be was truthful. That's all I
wanted to be. Oh and funny. I also really wanted
to be fun So that's those were my two goals.
Danielle Robay (33:36):
I think you achieved, So congrats. I was on the
phone with a book agent about a month ago and
we were talking about memoir and she was like, well,
what are your favorite memoirs? Yes, and I started conserting, well,
(34:01):
Jane Fonda and I like and Gloria Steinem and Diane
von Furstenberg. I'm naming all these names, and she goes,
Danielle it sounds like you like celebrity memoir. There's a difference.
Chelsea Devantez (34:13):
How dare how dare I will fight this pagent get
her on the line road.
Danielle Robay (34:19):
So my question to the two experts on the line is,
what is the difference between a celebrity memoir and a memoir?
Is there one?
Chelsea Devantez (34:28):
Here's what I'm gonna say, The judgment on them is
an unfair judgment.
When I went to write my memoir, they were I.
Was like, oh, and then how many photos do I
get to put in that big, fat, you know, photo
section in the middle, And they were like, none, because
this is a real book and a real memoir.
(34:48):
Also, you're not famous, so we don't have the ink
budget for you.
But there is this idea that like a book with
photos in the middle is like a less of a book, right,
or like, if it's a celebrity memoir, it's not real memoir.
It can't be like a crying in h Mart or whatever.
And I just so fully disagree. Are there a lot
of really bad celebrity memoirs? Yes, and the bad ones
(35:10):
are so bad.
But I think there's bad, you know, quote unquote literary memoirs,
and so I just think there's so many good books
in the genre, and I think it gets I think
it really unfairly gets put down, and I think it
especially happens to women's memoirs, Like I bet if you
would have said like Andrea Augasy, they would have been like, oh,
that's one of the best because his co author is
(35:32):
like real literary, and so I just, yeah, I think
it's unfair. I think it's untrue, and they are also
my favorite memoirs because I like to have fun when
I read.
Jeff Hiller (35:41):
I would say the only difference is the way you
market them exactly, because there's a built in fan base
for a celebrity memoir.
Chelsea Devantez (35:48):
If you're not a celebrity, you have to be speaking
about something that speaks beyond yourself, whereas if you are
a celebrity and you just want to tell us like
five events from your life, you could Yeah, they'll buy
that book.
Jeff Hiller (35:58):
That's true.
Danielle Robay (35:59):
Have you guys discovered any universal truths in reading all
these memoirs.
Jeff Hiller (36:03):
I think for the.
Most part, people see themselves as nobody ever is like
I was super popular in high school. Everybody loved me.
Everyone sees themselves as you know what.
Chelsea Devantez (36:17):
I don't know. There's no universal truth. We're all different.
We're I think you're right though, that everyone everyone is
sort of like, oh, I was going through such a
hard time and no one liked me, not everyone, but
the good memoirs, And you're like, oh, everyone thinks that.
I think that's right.
Jeff Hiller (36:32):
Yeah, that's the universal truth. I guess we don't all
have it together.
Chelsea Devantez (36:36):
Yeah.
And I would say one thing that is really.
A truth that I noticed and then have now lived,
is that telling your own story will set you free.
And if you really dare to tell your own story
and tell the truth and tell it authentically, no matter
the consequences, you will be free after that. And that
happens so often because well, I know that that's true
(36:59):
now because I've done it. But so many people even
write in their memoirs like the process of doing this
freed me.
You should do it too.
Danielle Robay (37:07):
There's something so interesting about that, because, particularly in celebrity
memoir oftentimes they don't have to write the book, and
so the fact that they do and they spill the
mess is so admirable.
Jeff Hiller (37:23):
Yeah.
Chelsea Devantez (37:23):
I also think, especially with female memoirs and female celebrities,
most of their lives, their story has been told through
the press and the media, which is still very male led,
and especially if you live through the two thousands, that
was like very like Paparazzi TMZ and so to tell
your story in your own words of a thing that
we have all been following for so long and knew
(37:47):
the worst version of, like Jessica Simpson being quote fat,
you know at the Barbecue Chili Bake Off concert where
she's sang and for her to be like, actually it
was a size for it at that time. I just
think it's so powerful for them to take back their
story and then for us to actually like read the
real story.
Danielle Robay (38:03):
Wells yeah, do you think everybody has a book in them?
Chelsea Devantez (38:08):
No? Because I've read some of them and I said,
this shouldn't have been a book Sinahe.
Jeff Hiller (38:18):
Yeah, I feel like everybody probably does have a book
in them, But are people willing to put the thing
out there?
Chelsea Devantez (38:26):
I don't know. I don't know that everybody is brave
enough to put a real book out there.
And I would say I would say we shouldn't look
down on co authors.
Get the help books are hard, totally.
Danielle Robay (38:39):
There's one other thing that I feel like i'd be
remiss not to mention about the genre that I love
and Jeff you probably I think like you've touched on
it a little bit in this conversation. I don't get
to speak to a lot of seventy eighty or ninety
year old women in my day to day life and
to open a book and get to learn about how
(39:00):
they're thinking and what they're thinking is so cool, Like
you don't get that otherwise.
Jeff Hiller (39:07):
Agree, Yeah, except unless they're on that Julia Louis Dreyfus podcast.
Danielle Robay (39:11):
But yeah, good point.
Chelsea Devantez (39:16):
But I completely agree.
Jeff Hiller (39:17):
And I think there is something which you know, I'm
speaking to you as someone who's not in my seventies,
eightes and nineties, I mean not that far, but I.
Chelsea Devantez (39:28):
Think that.
Jeff Hiller (39:30):
I think that that wisdom is also empowering what a
share say, like if you don't if you're not going
to be worried about this in three years, you shouldn't
be worried about it now. It's it's like it's really
good advice and something that really take from. And there's
a great one by Lee Grant called I Said Yes
(39:53):
to Everything, and she's she won an oscar, but nobody
remembers Lee Grant, but she is this incredible She talks
about like how she got a facelift at thirty and
she was like, I don't know why I got a
Facelift at.
Chelsea Devantez (40:06):
Thirty it's so good.
Jeff Hiller (40:08):
Adrian Barbo has this incredible one where and she's like
very poetic.
Chelsea Devantez (40:14):
Oh you know who else? Janis Ian? Who knowe? This song?
She wrote the song I Learned the Truth at seventeen.
Jeff Hiller (40:21):
Wow, it's called Society's Child. It's great, it's really and
it's beautifully written. I don't think she even had a
co author. And it's and she's so vulnerable, and she's
also so wise. I think that's the word I'm looking for,
the wisdom of age.
Danielle Robay (40:37):
Yes, we're coming up on the end of our conversation,
which means it's time for the speed read. Here's how
it works. We're going to put one hundred and twenty
seconds on the clock, sixty seconds for each of you,
and we're going to see how many rapid fire literary
questions we can get through.
Chelsea Devantez (40:53):
WHOA Are you ready?
Yeah?
Danielle Robay (40:56):
Okay?
Three?
Chelsea Devantez (40:58):
Two?
Danielle Robay (40:59):
Chelsea The Best Memoir If You.
Chelsea Devantez (41:01):
Just Got Dumped Gabrielle Union's first memoir, Jeff, you Just
Got Fired?
Danielle Robay (41:06):
What are you reading?
Jeff Hiller (41:07):
Patty LuPone Colon a memoir.
Danielle Robay (41:12):
Chelsea you just got your Big Break? What are you reading?
Chelsea Devantez (41:16):
I am reading Rosie Perez's Handbook for really messed up life.
I'm getting this out of wrong, but you gotta read.
Jeff Hiller (41:23):
Yeah, and How I Had Good Hairs.
Danielle Robay (41:25):
This is definitely your big break.
Jeff Hiller (41:26):
What now?
I want to be Chelsea and write my own show.
Danielle Robay (41:33):
Chelsea, you're alone for the holidays. What are you reading?
Chelsea Devantez (41:36):
Ione Sky's memoir? Say anything? I would say a definitive
nineties memoir.
Danielle Robay (41:42):
Great one, Jeff, You're on a beach Bak my first
five husbands and the ones that got away for a
beach read to be honest, this great one.
Chelsea, you're turning thirty. What are you reading?
Chelsea Devantez (41:53):
Oh? Now I'm reading like Jane Fonda, Barbara streisand Jennifer Lewis.
Like yeah, looking back on it, of like what I
should really be doing.
Danielle Robay (42:04):
Someone else is narrating your memoir?
Chelsea Devantez (42:06):
Who's narrating Betty Gilpin?
Jeff Hiller (42:08):
It'd probably be Michael Yuri. He gets all the jobs
I audition for.
Danielle Robay (42:14):
What book shaped the way you see the world? Delta
Birk's memoir Delta Style. I read it when I was sixteen,
and she was thrown out of Hollywood for the atrocious
crime of being a size ten and reading that as
a sixteen year old in the early aughts when double
zero had just been introduced, was actually.
Chelsea Devantez (42:32):
Such a big, such a big handhold.
Jeff Hiller (42:35):
I would say, he's not really a celebrity unless you
count poets as celebrities. But there's a book called Becoming
a Man by Paul Manette. It helps me come out.
Also a book called A Place at the Table by
Mel White, who's not a celebrity, but he is the
father of Mike White, who created White Lotus.
Danielle Robay (42:51):
So okay, you guys, Because of these books, I think
no celebrity genealogy better than anybody. Like I imagine you
having really creepy whiteboards with like all the lines and everything.
Chelsea Devantez (43:08):
At the top.
Danielle Robay (43:11):
My cheek's hurt. So it's time to go. But thank
you both so much. You're you're so funny, but you
also really have so much wisdom and depth, So thank you.
Thank you.
Chelsea Devantez (43:23):
This was my dream podcast, and I got Jeff to
admit the truth and it means a lot to me.
Jeff Hiller (43:28):
And I found my twin flame.
Danielle Robay (43:31):
And I can't wait to join your cult.
You'll figure out what to name it.
Before we wrap today's episode, I want to introduce you
to a brand new monthly segment brought to you by Cotton.
You know cotton is a part of so many of
life's everyday comforts, from what we wear to what we
wrap ourselves in, and it's especially present in the quiet,
(43:55):
cozy moments like reading a book you can't put down,
which brings me to our segment the book Nook, where
we explore the rituals that make reading feel just right.
For me, that means cotton everything. I live in La
it's summer, and even when it's warm, I want to
(44:16):
feel wrapped up and relaxed. When I'm home, I curl
up with this super soft cotton blanket. It's lightweight and
breathable and perfect for long reading stretches. I've got my
favorite matching cotton lounge set on two. It's basically my
reading uniform, and I'm nestled on my couch by the window,
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(44:38):
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(45:00):
or email me a voice memo to Bookmarked at Reese's
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(46:34):
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Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club is presented by Apple Books.
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. I'm your host,
Danielle Robe, and this week we're having a little kiki.
Do you think everybody has a book in them?
Chelsea Devantez (00:18):
No?
Because I've read some of them and I said, this
shouldn't have been a book Sina.
Jeff Hiller (00:26):
Che Yeah, I feel like everybody probably does have a
book in them, But are people willing to put the
thing out there?
I don't know.
Danielle Robay (00:35):
Now. Before I introduce you to our pop culture savants,
I have a little story. It'll be quick, I promise.
So picture this. It's twenty ten. I'm wearing a choker
necklace and uggs, you know the kind with the fur
on the outside, and I'm obsessed with watching award show
speeches on YouTube. There was this one speech in particular
(00:55):
that struck me. It was Will Smith at the Teen
Choice Awards, and he said something that I've never forgotten.
He said there were two keys to life, running and reading.
And since twenty ten I found that to be so true.
Every answer is in a book, and for me and
for our guests today, we found a lot of those
(01:18):
answers in celebrity memoirs. Now, if you're thinking, Danielle, this
is silly. What am I going to learn from Joan
Rivers or Joan Collins that pertains to my life? This
episode might just change your mind. Today I've brought in
two experts in the field. My friend Chelsea Devantees is
a writer, comedian and host of the podcast Glamorous Trash,
(01:41):
where she recaps celebrity memoirs with the same enthusiasm that
people recap Real Housewives. She is brilliant, hilarious, and a
true scholar of the genre. Joining her is Jeff Hiller,
a writer, comedian, actor, and brand new Emmy nominee for
his role in Somebody Somewhere. He's also a devoted, like
(02:03):
truly devoted, celebrity memoir reader with the kind of sharp
wit and big hearted perspective that makes every conversation brighter.
And here's the plot twist. Both of them published their
own memoirs over the last year, so yes, they are
celebrity memoir super fans and authors themselves. Today's show is
(02:25):
all about celebrity memoirs and what we can learn from them.
Trust me, you are in the right place. And usually
I say it's time to turn the page. But today
I think we got to roll out the red carpet
for Chelsea Devantes and Jeff Hiller. Chelsea, Jeff, welcome to
(02:46):
the club.
Chelsea Devantez (02:47):
I'm so happy to be in the club.
You know, I don't get to the club these days
very often, so if it's through a podcast, it's probably
the only way I'm going club.
Danielle Robay (02:54):
In me too, the only club I can be a
part of.
Jeff Hiller (02:57):
I could be in the club before six pm.
Danielle Robay (03:00):
So, Jeff, you were recently on Chelsea's podcast and the
two of you self identified as twin flames.
Chelsea Devantez (03:07):
Well, I would say it was more something I thrust
upon Cheff and forced him to accept, and then I
also invited him to join the twin flames cults I've
heard about, but he hasn't responded.
Danielle Robay (03:17):
I haven't been aware of the cult, but I do
know what a twin flame is, and I think twins
sort of have some esp So I want to test
your connection. The first question is what does your twin
flame order for brunch?
Chelsea Devantez (03:31):
Okay, I know from Jeff's book that he likes avocado,
but it also made him sick, so maybe he's not
going for an avocado filled brunch. I'm gonna go with
Belgian waffles with a side of eggs and a side
of hashbrowns.
Jeff Hiller (03:46):
That's actually kind of true. I do like to have
a protein and then I like to have a little
sweet something. Yeah that's really true.
Chelsea Devantez (03:52):
Yeah, little cabo.
Danielle Robay (03:54):
Yeah, Okay, so she wasn't so off.
Jeff Hiller (03:56):
No, not at all. I'm going to go eggs Florentine.
Chelsea Devantez (04:02):
Oh my gosh, Jeff, thank you for the fanciness.
Unfortunately, the income bracket I grew up in does not
allow me to know what florentine is.
But I would say I would order eggs. So we're
half there.
Danielle Robay (04:14):
I'm going to move on to something we know a
little bit better, which is music. What song does your
twin flame kill at karaoke? M? I'm gonna guess I
can't make you love me by baring rape?
Jeff Hiller (04:28):
Oh what a banger that is. But my go to, No,
my go to is you Ought to Know by Alanis Moris.
Chelsea Devantez (04:35):
Set shut Up. That is my number one listen to
play song this week.
Danielle Robay (04:40):
Yes, anyways, what do you think that your twin flame
is here on earth to do?
Chelsea Devantez (04:48):
I think it is to make other people feel seen
and treasured. M.
I was kind of kinna say the same thing.
Jeff Hiller (04:58):
I think it's about creating a space where you feel
safe to tell the truth.
Danielle Robay (05:06):
In a funny way.
Jeff Hiller (05:07):
In a funny way.
Danielle Robay (05:08):
Yeah, well sure I have to add the funny.
Jeff Hiller (05:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that.
Danielle Robay (05:13):
Well, you're both here because you are voracious readers and
true connoisseurs of celebrity memoirs, and out of all the
literary genres out there, what is it about celebrity memoirs
that had such a big impact on you? Jeff, I'd
love to hear yours first.
Jeff Hiller (05:29):
Well, I am an actor, and I tried to be
an actor for a good couple decades before I had
any sort of success, and so I really.
Chelsea Devantez (05:41):
Found a lot of hope in celebrity memoir.
Jeff Hiller (05:44):
I think a memoir just in general, I love hearing
people's stories. I love listening to people. I love meeting people,
getting to know them and stuff. But there is something
about reading an actor's memoir where you're.
Chelsea Devantez (05:55):
Like, where'd you get the part where you can get
a book deal?
Jeff Hiller (06:00):
And I find that very thrilling and also hopeful. Yeah,
gives me a little inspiration.
Danielle Robay (06:08):
Definitely, I totally agree with that.
Chelsea Devantez (06:10):
I mean, Carol Burnett's memoir talks about how she got
an agent.
Jeff Hiller (06:15):
Jeff is nodding, because you know the story she.
Chelsea Devantez (06:16):
Talks about how she got an agent, and I, with
one of my best friends, Ashley, was like, this is
how Carol Burnett did it. This is how we're going
to get agents. And so I learned a lot of
chips and tricks. Was always looking in the nooks and
crannies for like how to survive. And then I think,
what surprised me is how much darkness.
Is in celebrity memoirs.
And I say that as a compliment as someone who
(06:38):
has lived a dark life.
You sort of celebrity.
Memoirs were thought it was like these trashy throwaway books, right,
But in every story of our most popular, most successful
woman succeeding, there's so much insanity she goes through. And
I was thinking it was just happening to us regular regulars.
And to realize that like all the bodies, I mean,
(07:00):
Delta Burke went through, or you know, all of the
horrors that happened to Jane Fondo for standing up for
like what she believed in, or like all of the
horrible bosses they had to survive. Ashley Judd, you know,
just to get a role, and so to me, I
came to realize it was this genre that has all
the deepest, darkest details of a human, especially a woman's
(07:21):
journey in life, and they were the books that were
talking most honestly about this thing that society was trying
to throw away or tell us not to talk about.
Danielle Robay (07:30):
Why do you think they get written off as frivolous.
Chelsea Devantez (07:32):
I think it's absolutely on purpose. I think they wanted
us to ignore how powerful these books are. And I
think anytime something comes specifically feminine, it immediately must be
trashed so.
That its power is removed.
Because when something is extremely feminine, it's Taylor Swift bringing
back the economy with a tour, It's Beyonce bringing back
with it towards the Barbie movie. It's like, it's the
(07:54):
romance genre as something we read in literature. It's it's
all of these things that have so much power, and
so they try and culturally downplay them so that the
feminine cannot take over.
Danielle Robay (08:05):
That's how I feel interesting.
Jeff Hiller (08:07):
That is true.
Danielle Robay (08:09):
Well, Chelsea, on your podcast, you talk about one memoir
a week basically, and we met because I was a
fan and.
Chelsea Devantez (08:17):
So on the podcast hot Plug.
Danielle Robay (08:20):
True, but it started because I was a fan genuinely,
and one of the reasons I was a fan is
you break down these memoirs and you're really honest. You're
honest about what makes a good memoir, what makes a
memoir that you could kind of pass reading? What do
you think is the secret sauce to a great celebrity memoir?
Chelsea Devantez (08:38):
Well, I have questions at the end of my podcast
this little test that I came up with myself, which
is why it has the terrible name of the book.
Total Test. It's my take on the Bechdel test. And
I realized that, like when I love, a memoir.
Always has three qualities, which is one the author was
vulnerable in telling the truth. So they didn't just come
here to be like and here's how hard did it?
You could too, or like and everything was fine. They
(09:00):
really like gave something as they told their story. The
second question is was it entertaining to read? Because I
hear to read a boring book right. And then the
third question I ask is did it elevate your life
in some way?
Because I also don't.
Care if we're just like, if it's just like gossip
and trash, Like I want to get something every time
(09:22):
I devote reading an entire book, even if it's Gina
Sche's memoir, which was little less than two hundred pages
a big font. But it's like, if I'm going to
read a book, I'd like to walk away with something.
And if I don't walk away with something, why did
you write it?
Danielle Robay (09:35):
Chelsea? For anybody out there who doesn't know, what's the
Bechdel test? Oh?
Chelsea Devantez (09:39):
The Bechdel test is a test that Alison Bechdel comic
artists came up with. It started as like a funny
observation that then became this very true test because so
many movies failed the Bechdel test, which is in a movie,
are there two women in the movie? Okay, that's one
of the questions. Second question, do they talk to each other?
(10:03):
This could also be a TV show.
Are there two women? Do they talk to each other?
Third thing?
Was it about anything other than a man? And it's
a really sad game to play because a lot of
things you'll love are going to fail the test.
Danielle Robay (10:16):
It's shocking. When I was in college, I learned about
this and basically the only thing at that point is
The Gilmore Girls was the only thing that passed.
Chelsea Devantez (10:24):
Yes, wow, Oh my gosh, and also, gosh, what a
great show, Jeff.
Danielle Robay (10:31):
When is the best time for someone to write a memoir?
Jeff Hiller (10:33):
Oh, I don't think that there is necessarily like you
have to be over X number years. I think it's
just do you have a story to tell? Because I
completely agree with all of Chelsea's points. The only thing
I would add is I want to feel like you're
being authentic, which I think is kind of what you
were saying with being vulnerable. Yeah, every once in a
while you can sniff someone trying to, like, I don't know,
(10:54):
pretend to be vulnerable, yes, And I don't like that.
Chelsea Devantez (11:01):
But oh and Madison Beer wrote a memoir at twenty
four which people were making fun of, and I think
it's one of the best because she talks about a
lot of horrible things that teenage girls are going through.
But she's writing it twenty four and I just thought like, Oh,
if she'd waited to write this, I bet some of
these stories wouldn't have made it in and they wouldn't
feel so present with what it's like to be a
teenager and have nude photos of you shared online and
(11:23):
then you become a global superstar.
Danielle Robay (11:25):
And I just thought that was I would love to
that she wrote it so young. That is really well said.
How many memoirs do you get? I'm not going to
name names, but there's an actress who has like five memoirs,
and I was thinking to myself, I don't know if
you get five.
Chelsea Devantez (11:39):
Yes, I think you're talking about Tori Spelling, But I
want to tell you Shirley McLean has seventeen?
Danielle Robay (11:44):
Whoa seventeen?
Jeff Hiller (11:46):
But aren't a lot.
Of them about like this is when I was really
into this particular thing, like you know, like this is
when I was in New Mexico and really into crystals,
and this is when I was really into past lives.
Chelsea Devantez (11:57):
You know. It's kind of like it's a snapshot for life.
Yeah, It's almost as if she like, yeah, she journals
here three months and she's like, send it to print.
It's perfect. Another memoir.
Jeff Hiller (12:08):
Like David Sedaris, you could call his books memoirs. They're
really probably more essay collections. But I think like he
has enough to say, and he's got a lot of books,
and I'll read all of them.
Chelsea Devantez (12:18):
So I don't know.
I also think when someone writes another memoir, it is
a lot like movie sequels, where if it's amazing. You're
so nervous that they're doing this second one, and some
people know names Michelle Obama. They wait like eight months
and you're like, that wasn't enough time to memoir again.
You know, we went too fast.
Danielle Robay (12:38):
And so the first one was so good.
Jeff Hiller (12:40):
But then you have like.
Share and you're like, she's got enough life for a
second memoir.
Chelsea Devantez (12:46):
This is what's so funny about Cher.
She already had a memoir, and then she was like announcement,
I'm writing my memoir for the first time. And I
was like, are we just gonna pretend you don't already
have a memoir called My first time?
This is just a fun fact. I don't know why
it's in my brain.
Her editor for this memoir had to come and live
with her for an entire week to get that first
memoir out, So I can't even imagine what's going on
(13:09):
to get us the second memoir.
Danielle Robay (13:10):
That's so fun.
Jeff Hiller (13:14):
Fun.
Chelsea Devantez (13:14):
I mean, just think of Cher tweeting. That's where share starts.
That's how the transcript comes in.
Danielle Robay (13:19):
Oh, I love her. What are some of the pitfalls
that you see in celebrity memoirs.
Jeff Hiller (13:25):
I think sometimes people can be too interested in themselves
a little too navel gaisy, and you have to realize
that just because the story is really powerful and meaningful
to you, if you can't explain why it's powerful and
meaningful to you.
It just feels a little self indulgent.
And yes, I'm sure it's fascinating for you that your
great grandmother carried a sewing machine across a country.
(13:51):
But I don't care. I don't know your great grandma.
Chelsea Devantez (13:55):
I was going to say, I would ask them sort
of the these of their life or the thesis of
their core pain, because I feel like sometimes someone has
a lot of like stories to tell and you're like wow,
but then you get to the end and you're just
robbed of the literary experience because their life is still going.
There is no ending, right, and so you're just sort
of like and then it's over and you're like what.
(14:16):
And so I really like an emotional journey in a book.
But in order to do.
That, like Jeff said, you have to know what your
life has meant. You have to just still meaning from
the events, especially if you're writing it like before seventy
you you know what I mean, I need a little
thesis because we're not going to have.
An ending or the worst pitfall.
Oh my gosh, I've started clocking it as a curse,
(14:38):
which is that they introduce a new love interest in
the last few chapters.
Danielle Robay (14:44):
Oh, that's the worst.
Chelsea Devantez (14:45):
And you're like, not a cause they're trying to find
an ending, right. So it's like, and then I met
so and so, who is always gotten by the time
the book is published, and you're.
Like, they're in your memoir forever.
So I feel like, if you don't really know what
you're trying to pass on, you are going to end
up like going on a date and writing them into
your final chapter.
Danielle Robay (15:03):
That's such a good one, Chelsea. I've learned from your
podcast that there's always a psychic moment which you had,
and that is sort of like a I guess we
could call it like a trope. Are there any other
celebrity memoir tropes that you actually really love?
Chelsea Devantez (15:26):
Oh my gosh, it's so funny because I can now
I can only think of the ones I hate. But Jeff,
have you also noticed there's so many psychic moments and memoirs,
which I think speaks more to again people tapped into
the feminine. We're open to being like maybe a witch knows.
Jeff Hiller (15:37):
We know, we're not afraid to go woo woo.
Danielle Robay (15:40):
Yeah.
Chelsea Devantez (15:40):
So there's a lot of psychic moments.
The one moment that shows up the most across all
celebrity memoirs ever, and we have a game we play
called Dringo where I call them I say dringo, and
you drink because it's a bingo. The number one thing
that happens in almost every single celebrity memoir is that
they at some point they tell you their exact way.
(16:00):
Sometimes it happens a lot.
Jeff Hiller (16:02):
The misogyny of our world is that that that is
where you hold value and how your body looks, and
how your body can appear.
To men right, yes, exactly and like or like, And
then I had no value because this was my way.
Chelsea Devantez (16:17):
And it's just like the amount of times, but I
love one.
Jeff Hiller (16:21):
Demi Moore said in her uh in her book when
she said, I don't want to think about how much
I weigh anymore. All of my journals are just talking
about how much I weigh.
And I thought that was I thought that was vulnerable.
Danielle Robay (16:35):
And in her memoir it makes sense too, because she
talks so much about her journey of beauty and.
Chelsea Devantez (16:42):
One of the best career is just objectification.
Danielle Robay (16:45):
So I love asking our guests what they've bookmarked this week.
It can be a weird fact if, unquote, something you've
saved on Instagram, something you've texted your husband or your
best friend. What have each of you bookmarked?
Chelsea Devantez (16:59):
Let me go look, let me go live on the
scene to my own Instagram.
And see what I'm a bookmarking.
Jeff Hiller (17:07):
I bookmarked fun ties because I'm neckties.
I'm trying to find something to wear to the Emmy's,
so I'm looking at fun weird gay clothing.
Danielle Robay (17:22):
Chelsea likes original clothing. She made a very cool dress
for her book launch, and so I like this whole
original tie idea.
Jeff Hiller (17:31):
Jeff, Yes, Chelsea, we are twin flames.
Danielle Robay (17:34):
Thank you.
Chelsea Devantez (17:35):
I've been trying to.
Danielle Robay (17:35):
Tell you this.
Chelsea Devantez (17:36):
I've been trying to let Jeff know, Chelse.
Danielle Robay (17:40):
I think I think you let them know.
Chelsea Devantez (17:41):
I think I finally. I took two podcasts, but we're here.
I believe Jeff is a believer.
Danielle Robay (17:45):
Now was it?
Jeff Hiller (17:47):
I get it?
Chelsea Devantez (17:48):
He's like, who is this lady stalking me on my
book tour?
Danielle Robay (17:53):
I saved.
Chelsea Devantez (17:56):
I saved a chicken Caesar smashed taco recipe using peana
bread that I will never make, but really wanted to eat.
That doesn't even sound good, really a smash taco with
caesar salad in it.
Danielle Robay (18:19):
I need you guys to name names. What is your
favorite reveal that you've read in a memoir.
Jeff Hiller (18:25):
Oh, I've said this one so many times, but it
is my favorite. Bar none Brookshields said that Liam Neeson
proposed to her and then said, I'll be right back.
Chelsea Devantez (18:37):
I have to go on this trip to la and
then he never spoke to her again.
Jeff Hiller (18:40):
And I when that happened, I gasped, I was gagged,
I was gooped.
Chelsea Devantez (18:46):
I was flabbergasted.
Jeff Hiller (18:48):
Also, Rue McClanahan confesses that she had sex with Robert Giome,
who played Benson.
Chelsea Devantez (18:57):
Well, I thought that was pretty amazing pulled them.
Danielle Robay (19:01):
I didn't know about the Brooks Shields once. She also
has like four or five memoirs.
Chelsea Devantez (19:05):
Yes, she does, she does. Two of my favorite reveals
come from the same book.
It is Celine Dion revealing that she lost her virginity
the night that she won Eurovision and then when you
like read deeper, it's like she's losing it to her
manager who signed her when she.
Was twelve years old. So it's dark, It's really dark.
But then the other reveal is that she'd never taken
(19:26):
the subway before, and it's so intense for her that
it is a chapter in the memoir of like the
night she had to take the subway in Montreal to
get to a concert, and like how scary it was.
Danielle Robay (19:39):
Who do you think got too messy in their memoir?
Is there a thing?
Chelsea Devantez (19:42):
Is no such thing? No such thing? What a gift?
Danielle Robay (19:46):
Who didn't get messy enough?
Chelsea Devantez (19:48):
Tina Knowles, That's what I was gonna say.
Jeff Hiller (19:52):
I'd say Linda Ron's staff, who only mentions that she
was dating Governor Jerry Brown because it has to do
with this story about her house.
I was like, that's the.
Only information we're getting about the fact that you're dating
the governor of California.
She doesn't even.
Chelsea Devantez (20:11):
Talk about her. And then at one point she says
something about her kids.
Jeff Hiller (20:14):
And I was like, you have kids, so true? So
many Okay, if we had to do a celebrity memoir
Mount Rushmore, I want to play a game. And here
here's like a rule I'm throwing in. Everybody can can
(20:35):
veto one person from our celebrity memoir Mount Rushma.
Chelsea Devantez (20:38):
We're making the mountain together.
Danielle Robay (20:40):
We're making the mountain together.
Chelsea Devantez (20:41):
I got to.
Put Jane Fonda up there. Yes, it's just such a
It was two thousand and five, right right in a
time when they really were not delivering on good celebrity memoirs,
and she still did it, you know what I mean.
And it was just so formative for me personally. I
think she still continues to form Hollywood culture in such
(21:02):
a positive direction that i'd.
Danielle Robay (21:04):
Put her up there. My life so far, Jane Fonda,
I would.
Jeff Hiller (21:07):
Say Bossy Pants by Tina Fey interesting.
Danielle Robay (21:12):
Make your case, Jeff.
Jeff Hiller (21:13):
I think that she is the reason that every publishing
house now has to find their comedian who's going to
say their life through essays, because it was such a
monumental book like that is why Elena Dunham's book happened.
That's how Mindy Kaeln got her books, and she went
off and everything that's Phoebe Robinson got her books. That's
(21:34):
how I think that she made the case that this
is a marketable subgenre of the genre.
Chelsea Devantez (21:40):
Yes, and.
Jeff Hiller (21:43):
I think it's also a really good book. I really
like the book too.
Danielle Robay (21:46):
Okay, I think you won me over. I agree she's
on the Mountain.
Chelsea Devantez (21:49):
I love that.
Get her on that mountain, Chelsea. One more?
Can I bring to the council some options? Yes?
See Ronnie Specter's memoir. It's actually being made into a
movie with Zindia playing Ronnie Spector and she is so
the book talks about her marriage to Phil Spector and
(22:09):
she was pretty much his wife. Prisoner after she sings
be My Little Baby with the Ronettes, which is like
this huge song, but basically she's like imprisoned in his house.
And so a lot of Hollywood tales come through the
book as she's like breaking free and she truly runs
out of the house barefoot, with no belongings, nothing on,
(22:30):
in order to escape and continue to live her life.
And as we know, Phil Spector will be.
In prison for murder later.
And so it's just this crazy, unbelievable tale of a
book from someone I think doesn't get enough attention history.
But the book is so good and the book is messy.
Danielle Robay (22:48):
That's that's a good one.
Chelsea Devantez (22:50):
I'm thinking about Lea Remeni's memoir where she went all in.
She gave us from j Lo to tom Cruise to
scientology tea and that one formative. And then I also
think Jessica Simpson fully brought back the entire genre in
twenty twenty, which led to things like my podcast and
so those are the three I'm thinking of.
Jeff Hiller (23:09):
And Jessica Simpsons was the first one that was like
I'm going to really be vulnerable and raw. Yes, yeah,
and that and that, like I would say, Para Seltans
came from that, and Demi Moore is and all of
those people, Brittany, they all have like a black and
white photo on the cover.
Chelsea Devantez (23:27):
Yeah.
I think if you're like, why are there more celebrity
memoirs now, it is Jessica Simpson.
Danielle Robay (23:31):
Interesting, guys, I did not foresee this happening. I can
did not foresee Jessica Simpson being.
On Mount rushmoret Wait, have you not read it?
Okay? Can I admit something? Yeah, I can't get through it.
I was on a plane, okay, and a woman sitting
next to me was reading it and she was crying
and she loved it so much. And she finished it
(23:53):
and she looked at me, and we hadn't spoken the
whole flight, and she said, I don't know why, but
I think I need to give you this book. You
have Someone should read this besides me, like, you have
to read this. I've been trying to get past the
first five pages for two years.
Chelsea Devantez (24:06):
What yes, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna make a psychic
moment claim here, which is that there is something in
that book you don't want.
Danielle Robay (24:14):
To face, oh healthy, because it is just such a fun, delicious,
psychotic read that just throws John Mayer under a bus.
Chelsea Devantez (24:23):
We run them over, We run over Nick Lachey.
We revisit Tony Romo, we revisit the fat jeans.
We revealed they were size four, like it is.
Jeff Hiller (24:30):
She talks all about the Mickey Mouse Club and all
of the like how difficult it is to be a
child and be sort of like put out there, and
it is.
Chelsea Devantez (24:40):
She gives on Johnny Knoxville, she gives on her dad
kind of coming out by bringing a date to her wedding,
but then also forgetting his Bible on purpose like Sony's.
I'm just saying there is no reason why you can't.
I'm actually angraged. I'm is that a word?
I am aggrieved that you have not made it past
five pages, and I think there must be something keeping
(25:00):
the book from you until the time is right.
Danielle Robay (25:02):
Okay, Also, maybe I need to now. I feel like
I need to dig in.
Chelsea Devantez (25:07):
You know, books find you at the right time.
I'm a really firm believer in that you were supposed
to read certain books in certain moments. If you can't
read it right now, it's for a reason and it'll
find you another time.
Danielle Robay (25:16):
I actually really really agree with that. Okay, So we
have Jane Fonda, we have Jessica Simpson, we have Ronnie Specter.
Do we have a fourth?
Jeff Hiller (25:33):
Oh well, I had already said Tina Faye. But I'm
maybe you're right, Maybe you're right, we need to go.
Danielle Robay (25:38):
I actually, Jeff, I think I think Tina Fey has
to be up there because I agree with you. It's like,
what changed the genre? That's a great question to answer.
Chelsea Devantez (25:46):
Then I'm gonna veto Jane because I don't know she
was a genre. I think she just did it really well,
and I think you could reread it and you would
learn something new every time because it's so goddamn long,
and she's an icon.
But maybe we remove her.
Danielle Robay (25:59):
I don't know if I feel right about removing her.
Chelsea Devantez (26:01):
I'm just saying, listen, we need more, we need more
heads on the mountain. Mommy dearest, that was genre changing.
That is actually that actually is maybe the book that
started the term tell all memoir.
Danielle Robay (26:12):
That's it done, That's it. Wow, great call. We have
talked so much about other people's memoirs, but I'd be
remiss not to talk about the fact that both of
you have written your own memoirs. I love both of
the titles. Chelsea's is I shouldn't be telling you this,
but I'm going to anyway, and Jeff's is Actress of
(26:33):
a Certain Age, My twenty year trail to overnight success.
What did you learn from writing your own memoir?
Jeff Hiller (26:40):
Well, I think for me it was sort of personal.
Like I don't know that I learned anything about the
genre per se, but I definitely learned. I learned a
little self compassion for myself. Like I wrote a lot
about my childhood, which was and I know this is
going to be shocking, but I was quite bullied as
a gay child in nineteen eighties Texas.
(27:02):
Can you believe that? Anyway? It gained a lot of
compassion for myself.
And I also really did a lot to challenge myself
to be completely honest and not to sort of make
myself look better or sound better.
Chelsea Devantez (27:15):
And I thought I thought that was, yeah, something I learned.
You know, specifically about the genre. I have so much.
I hope I had always approached these books with some
level of compassion, but I have even so much more
compassion for when the writing doesn't hold up. Like there's
certain books where you'll read a paragraph and you're like,
(27:36):
I don't.
Know who she's talking to, but it's not me, Like we're.
Settling a score with like some random lady through this
generic paragraph where you're like you've lost the plot because
like you're just kind of settling scores from your life
and coming to my own memoir, like there were really
tiny little things where it's like, you know, I need
to talk about like this night before I got married,
(27:59):
where these four family members of mine like jumped in
this pool and after maybe having a lot of crazy
stuff happening, it was like this beautiful moment, right, And
I had never talked about my godsister who was there
that night and jumped in the pool with me, right,
But to bring it up in the chapter and be like,
you know and know he was there, the reader's like,
who NOI but for me in the text of My
(28:20):
Life and the offering of my life, it was like,
I can't not include this person who I actually haven't
written very well into the book because of whatever, whatever, whatever.
And so I think you're always in this struggle when
you are putting your life down. Of like Jeff said,
it's like I don't care what your grandpa did. But
then there's also times where like, if this is your memoir,
you're making certain literary decisions that's like for four people,
(28:43):
and as the reader, you have to suffer through it.
And I think that's something really interesting I think about
now with those books.
Danielle Robay (28:50):
I would not have thought about that. That's a great point.
Chelsea Devantez (28:53):
But that's also why I love the books, because they're
so weird and distinct. Things can happen and memoir that
just like don't happen in fiction, you know, or biography
or things like that. And then I would say, like,
what did I learn about myself?
Oh god?
I mean, I don't know if you had this, Jeff,
but like when you write it down, I just had
times where I'm like and I'm alive, Like this is crazy.
Jeff Hiller (29:16):
Like I totally had that, but kind of in a
different way where it was like, actually I did do that.
That's impressive that I did that. I can't believe I
did that. I can't believe I moved across the country
or whatever.
Danielle Robay (29:26):
Yeah, yeah, Jeff, you introduce your book as a book
by an actor who is not famous, and I would
like to say that after your eminem, we all beg
to differ. But given that idea, I'm curious why you
decided that was the moment to publish.
Jeff Hiller (29:46):
Well, because they'd let me, it's the main reason.
But I think, like, because I have read so many
actor things where they're like, I loved O those days
of waiting tables and then it was all over when
I was twenty.
Five and I had to go be a movie star.
Hmm.
And I just wanted to shout out to.
All the people who are just toiling, trying and wanting
(30:12):
to live their dream and even though people keep telling
them over and over again that this is a dumb
dream and that you don't deserve to have it, and
I just yeah, so I wanted to have that as
my inspiration and also to say like, we're worth it,
we do deserve to have that dream.
Danielle Robay (30:32):
Mm hmm. It's beautiful, really beautiful, Chelsea. Each of your
chapters are named after a woman who played a big
role in your life, and to me, that gets to
the point of memory when writing a memoir, and you
cover a lot of trauma in your book. You kind
of joked around at the beginning of our conversation that
you've lived a dark life. You make light of it
(30:54):
a lot, but you've gone through some really tough things,
and you're sharing stories that are not exclusively your own.
What considerations do you have to make for real life
people that you portray in your story.
Chelsea Devantez (31:09):
What I tried to.
Do even though I was telling other women's stories and
many times because I also wanted to not.
Just talk about me, but talk about all these.
Formative women and just sort of center these main characters.
And I don't think I told any story in that
book that was not mine to tell. And in the
few moments when I did where I was like, hey, mom,
(31:30):
I'm can I talk about your first marriage? Or like hey,
my godmother, like can I talk about your first three marriages?
I had express permission, and they loved it, and they
were always like, we want to write this book, so
like put it in there. You know, in places where
I felt like, this actually isn't my story to tell
in a way where it needs to be protected, and
yet I don't even know how to write my story
without it.
(31:50):
I went through hoops to not write.
That story, and only sometimes will a reader pop up
and be like, hey, how come this, And it's like, oh,
it's because I was fully cutting around a thing that's
not mine to tell in order to tell the story
I have to tell. So I thought about it a lot,
and listen, I have to a memoir is crazy because
(32:11):
your main characters are alive still. You got to see
them the next day, yeah, sometimes see them at the
book launch, and so you know, if you're not lighting
them on fire, you got to be able to stand
there and look them in the eyes. And so I
took a lot of consideration with it. And also I
I don't know if it was on purpose, but in hindsight,
it used it for healing in the way of like
(32:33):
sometimes when you've lived through dark stuff together, you can't
stand in that truth together.
It's too hard.
But when someone has written it down and you can
both face it through the page and then come together,
it can make your relationships a lot stronger. And there
were a lot of relationships I thought I was going
to ruin with my book that really surprisingly only got
better and stronger and more beautiful because I named a
(32:55):
thing we both knew that we were just too afraid
to admit to, and then that allow more intimacy.
Danielle Robay (33:02):
Where on the spectrum of Jessica Simpson to Tina Knowles,
did you guys want to land.
Chelsea Devantez (33:08):
I'm gonna say confidently that people would be like, maybe
say less after reading my but I think they're like, actually,
you gave it too much and you didn't need to.
I think I went that. I think I went Jessica
Simpson and a quarter.
Jeff Hiller (33:27):
All I wanted to be was truthful. That's all I
wanted to be. Oh and funny. I also really wanted
to be fun So that's those were my two goals.
Danielle Robay (33:36):
I think you achieved, So congrats. I was on the
phone with a book agent about a month ago and
we were talking about memoir and she was like, well,
what are your favorite memoirs? Yes, and I started conserting, well,
(34:01):
Jane Fonda and I like and Gloria Steinem and Diane
von Furstenberg. I'm naming all these names, and she goes,
Danielle it sounds like you like celebrity memoir. There's a difference.
Chelsea Devantez (34:13):
How dare how dare I will fight this pagent get
her on the line road.
Danielle Robay (34:19):
So my question to the two experts on the line is,
what is the difference between a celebrity memoir and a memoir?
Is there one?
Chelsea Devantez (34:28):
Here's what I'm gonna say, The judgment on them is
an unfair judgment.
When I went to write my memoir, they were I.
Was like, oh, and then how many photos do I
get to put in that big, fat, you know, photo
section in the middle, And they were like, none, because
this is a real book and a real memoir.
(34:48):
Also, you're not famous, so we don't have the ink
budget for you.
But there is this idea that like a book with
photos in the middle is like a less of a book, right,
or like, if it's a celebrity memoir, it's not real memoir.
It can't be like a crying in h Mart or whatever.
And I just so fully disagree. Are there a lot
of really bad celebrity memoirs? Yes, and the bad ones
(35:10):
are so bad.
But I think there's bad, you know, quote unquote literary memoirs,
and so I just think there's so many good books
in the genre, and I think it gets I think
it really unfairly gets put down, and I think it
especially happens to women's memoirs, Like I bet if you
would have said like Andrea Augasy, they would have been like, oh,
that's one of the best because his co author is
(35:32):
like real literary, and so I just, yeah, I think
it's unfair. I think it's untrue, and they are also
my favorite memoirs because I like to have fun when
I read.
Jeff Hiller (35:41):
I would say the only difference is the way you
market them exactly, because there's a built in fan base
for a celebrity memoir.
Chelsea Devantez (35:48):
If you're not a celebrity, you have to be speaking
about something that speaks beyond yourself, whereas if you are
a celebrity and you just want to tell us like
five events from your life, you could Yeah, they'll buy
that book.
Jeff Hiller (35:58):
That's true.
Danielle Robay (35:59):
Have you guys discovered any universal truths in reading all
these memoirs.
Jeff Hiller (36:03):
I think for the.
Most part, people see themselves as nobody ever is like
I was super popular in high school. Everybody loved me.
Everyone sees themselves as you know what.
Chelsea Devantez (36:17):
I don't know. There's no universal truth. We're all different.
We're I think you're right though, that everyone everyone is
sort of like, oh, I was going through such a
hard time and no one liked me, not everyone, but
the good memoirs, And you're like, oh, everyone thinks that.
I think that's right.
Jeff Hiller (36:32):
Yeah, that's the universal truth. I guess we don't all
have it together.
Chelsea Devantez (36:36):
Yeah.
And I would say one thing that is really.
A truth that I noticed and then have now lived,
is that telling your own story will set you free.
And if you really dare to tell your own story
and tell the truth and tell it authentically, no matter
the consequences, you will be free after that. And that
happens so often because well, I know that that's true
(36:59):
now because I've done it. But so many people even
write in their memoirs like the process of doing this
freed me.
You should do it too.
Danielle Robay (37:07):
There's something so interesting about that, because, particularly in celebrity
memoir oftentimes they don't have to write the book, and
so the fact that they do and they spill the
mess is so admirable.
Jeff Hiller (37:23):
Yeah.
Chelsea Devantez (37:23):
I also think, especially with female memoirs and female celebrities,
most of their lives, their story has been told through
the press and the media, which is still very male led,
and especially if you live through the two thousands, that
was like very like Paparazzi TMZ and so to tell
your story in your own words of a thing that
we have all been following for so long and knew
(37:47):
the worst version of, like Jessica Simpson being quote fat,
you know at the Barbecue Chili Bake Off concert where
she's sang and for her to be like, actually it
was a size for it at that time. I just
think it's so powerful for them to take back their
story and then for us to actually like read the
real story.
Danielle Robay (38:03):
Wells yeah, do you think everybody has a book in them?
Chelsea Devantez (38:08):
No? Because I've read some of them and I said,
this shouldn't have been a book Sinahe.
Jeff Hiller (38:18):
Yeah, I feel like everybody probably does have a book
in them, But are people willing to put the thing
out there?
Chelsea Devantez (38:26):
I don't know. I don't know that everybody is brave
enough to put a real book out there.
And I would say I would say we shouldn't look
down on co authors.
Get the help books are hard, totally.
Danielle Robay (38:39):
There's one other thing that I feel like i'd be
remiss not to mention about the genre that I love
and Jeff you probably I think like you've touched on
it a little bit in this conversation. I don't get
to speak to a lot of seventy eighty or ninety
year old women in my day to day life and
to open a book and get to learn about how
(39:00):
they're thinking and what they're thinking is so cool, Like
you don't get that otherwise.
Jeff Hiller (39:07):
Agree, Yeah, except unless they're on that Julia Louis Dreyfus podcast.
Danielle Robay (39:11):
But yeah, good point.
Chelsea Devantez (39:16):
But I completely agree.
Jeff Hiller (39:17):
And I think there is something which you know, I'm
speaking to you as someone who's not in my seventies,
eightes and nineties, I mean not that far, but I.
Chelsea Devantez (39:28):
Think that.
Jeff Hiller (39:30):
I think that that wisdom is also empowering what a
share say, like if you don't if you're not going
to be worried about this in three years, you shouldn't
be worried about it now. It's it's like it's really
good advice and something that really take from. And there's
a great one by Lee Grant called I Said Yes
(39:53):
to Everything, and she's she won an oscar, but nobody
remembers Lee Grant, but she is this incredible She talks
about like how she got a facelift at thirty and
she was like, I don't know why I got a
Facelift at.
Chelsea Devantez (40:06):
Thirty it's so good.
Jeff Hiller (40:08):
Adrian Barbo has this incredible one where and she's like
very poetic.
Chelsea Devantez (40:14):
Oh you know who else? Janis Ian? Who knowe? This song?
She wrote the song I Learned the Truth at seventeen.
Jeff Hiller (40:21):
Wow, it's called Society's Child. It's great, it's really and
it's beautifully written. I don't think she even had a
co author. And it's and she's so vulnerable, and she's
also so wise. I think that's the word I'm looking for,
the wisdom of age.
Danielle Robay (40:37):
Yes, we're coming up on the end of our conversation,
which means it's time for the speed read. Here's how
it works. We're going to put one hundred and twenty
seconds on the clock, sixty seconds for each of you,
and we're going to see how many rapid fire literary
questions we can get through.
Chelsea Devantez (40:53):
WHOA Are you ready?
Yeah?
Danielle Robay (40:56):
Okay?
Three?
Chelsea Devantez (40:58):
Two?
Danielle Robay (40:59):
Chelsea The Best Memoir If You.
Chelsea Devantez (41:01):
Just Got Dumped Gabrielle Union's first memoir, Jeff, you Just
Got Fired?
Danielle Robay (41:06):
What are you reading?
Jeff Hiller (41:07):
Patty LuPone Colon a memoir.
Danielle Robay (41:12):
Chelsea you just got your Big Break? What are you reading?
Chelsea Devantez (41:16):
I am reading Rosie Perez's Handbook for really messed up life.
I'm getting this out of wrong, but you gotta read.
Jeff Hiller (41:23):
Yeah, and How I Had Good Hairs.
Danielle Robay (41:25):
This is definitely your big break.
Jeff Hiller (41:26):
What now?
I want to be Chelsea and write my own show.
Danielle Robay (41:33):
Chelsea, you're alone for the holidays. What are you reading?
Chelsea Devantez (41:36):
Ione Sky's memoir? Say anything? I would say a definitive
nineties memoir.
Danielle Robay (41:42):
Great one, Jeff, You're on a beach Bak my first
five husbands and the ones that got away for a
beach read to be honest, this great one.
Chelsea, you're turning thirty. What are you reading?
Chelsea Devantez (41:53):
Oh? Now I'm reading like Jane Fonda, Barbara streisand Jennifer Lewis.
Like yeah, looking back on it, of like what I
should really be doing.
Danielle Robay (42:04):
Someone else is narrating your memoir?
Chelsea Devantez (42:06):
Who's narrating Betty Gilpin?
Jeff Hiller (42:08):
It'd probably be Michael Yuri. He gets all the jobs
I audition for.
Danielle Robay (42:14):
What book shaped the way you see the world? Delta
Birk's memoir Delta Style. I read it when I was sixteen,
and she was thrown out of Hollywood for the atrocious
crime of being a size ten and reading that as
a sixteen year old in the early aughts when double
zero had just been introduced, was actually.
Chelsea Devantez (42:32):
Such a big, such a big handhold.
Jeff Hiller (42:35):
I would say, he's not really a celebrity unless you
count poets as celebrities. But there's a book called Becoming
a Man by Paul Manette. It helps me come out.
Also a book called A Place at the Table by
Mel White, who's not a celebrity, but he is the
father of Mike White, who created White Lotus.
Danielle Robay (42:51):
So okay, you guys, Because of these books, I think
no celebrity genealogy better than anybody. Like I imagine you
having really creepy whiteboards with like all the lines and everything.
Chelsea Devantez (43:08):
At the top.
Danielle Robay (43:11):
My cheek's hurt. So it's time to go. But thank
you both so much. You're you're so funny, but you
also really have so much wisdom and depth, So thank you.
Thank you.
Chelsea Devantez (43:23):
This was my dream podcast, and I got Jeff to
admit the truth and it means a lot to me.
Jeff Hiller (43:28):
And I found my twin flame.
Danielle Robay (43:31):
And I can't wait to join your cult.
You'll figure out what to name it.
Before we wrap today's episode, I want to introduce you
to a brand new monthly segment brought to you by Cotton.
You know cotton is a part of so many of
life's everyday comforts, from what we wear to what we
wrap ourselves in, and it's especially present in the quiet,
(43:55):
cozy moments like reading a book you can't put down,
which brings me to our segment the book Nook, where
we explore the rituals that make reading feel just right.
For me, that means cotton everything. I live in La
it's summer, and even when it's warm, I want to
(44:16):
feel wrapped up and relaxed. When I'm home, I curl
up with this super soft cotton blanket. It's lightweight and
breathable and perfect for long reading stretches. I've got my
favorite matching cotton lounge set on two. It's basically my
reading uniform, and I'm nestled on my couch by the window,
iced coffee, clinking book in hand. It's truly my ideal
(44:38):
reading set up. Now, I want to hear yours. What
are you wearing, what's around you? Are you out in
the world or you tucked away at home? Take me
into your perfect reading ritual. Leave me a voicemail at
five zero one two nine one three three seven nine
five oh one two nine one three three seven nine,
(45:00):
or email me a voice memo to Bookmarked at Reese's
book Club dot com. Thanks to Cotton for bringing this
segment to life and reminding us that comfort and style
can go hand in hand. Don't forget to check the
tag for Cotton. And if you want to learn more,
head to the fabric of OurLives dot com. And if
(45:25):
you want a little bit more from us, come hang
with us on socials. We're at Reese's book Club on
Instagram serving up books, vibes and behind the scenes magic.
And I'm at Danielle Robe rob a y Come say
hi and df me And if you want to go
nineties on us, call us. Okay, our phone line is open,
so call now at one five zero one two nine
(45:48):
one three three seven nine. That's one five oh one
two nine one three three seven nine. Share your literary
hot takes, book recommendations, quest about the monthly pick, or
let us know what you think about the episode you
just heard, and who knows, you might just hear yourself
in our next episode, so don't be shy, give us
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a ring, and of course, make sure to follow Bookmarked
by Reese's book Club on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcast
or wherever you get your shows until then see in
the next chapter. Bookmarked is a production of Hello Sunshine
and iHeart podcast. It's executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and
me Danielle Robe. Production is by ACAST Creative Studios. Our
(46:34):
producers are Matty Foley, Brittany Martinez, Sarah Schleid, and Darby Masters.
Our production assistant is Avery Loftus. Jenny Kaplan and Emily
Rutterer are the executive producers for a Cast Creative Studios.
Maureene Polo and Reese Witherspoon are the executive producers for
Hello Sunshine. Olga Caminwa, Kristin Perla and Ashley Rappaport are
(46:56):
associate producers for Reese's book Club. Ali Perry and Lauren
Hansen are the executive producers for iHeart Podcasts, and Tim
Palazola is our showrunner.
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