February 19, 2024 • 33 mins
Dr. Wendy is answering more of your relationship questions with her driveby makeshift relationship advice. Also, we are talking to Dr. Dave Rabin about drugs, better orgasms, and relaxation. Dr. Dave Rabin MD, PhD is a board-certified psychiatrist, neuroscientist, entrepreneur, and inventor who has studied resilience and the impact of chronic stress on our lives for over 15 years. Dr. Rabin and his team collaborate with clients at the Apollo Clinic, empowering clients to take control of their mental and physical health by tapping into our abilities to adapt and heal ourselves. It's all on KFIAM-640!
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(00:00):
This is doctor Wendy Walsh and you'relistening to k I Am six forty,
the Doctor Wendy Waalsh Show on demandon the iHeartRadio app Doctor Doctor Billy the
Louse, I Gotta loving you.K I Am six forty. You have
Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. Thisis the Doctor Wendy Walls Show. Just
(00:23):
a reminder. I'm a psychology professorat cal State Channel Islands, but I
am obsessed with the science of love. I've written three books on relationships and
I did my dissertation on attachment theory. If you don't know what your attachment
style is, should take one ofthose online tests because you'll learn a lot.
It explains all of life to me, Kayla, attachment he really does
(00:45):
how everybody behaves. Anyway, I'mgoing to my social media. You can
follow me on Instagram, TikTok,wherever, YouTube, whatever, at doctor
Wendy Walsh, at d R WendyWalsh. So here we go, going
too the DMS. Hey, ohyes, yes, this woman. Okay,
she's getting ready to go on afirst date. Hi, Doctor Wendy,
can I get some input? Imet this guy on a dating app.
(01:06):
We're supposed to meet up tomorrow forour first date. For the first
time, he just asked me ifI'm on birth control, which really threw
me off. Feels like he's tryingto see if we're going to have sex
without protection. Should I cancel?Am I overreacting? Okay? Let me
(01:27):
I gotta explain here. First ofall, it depends what you want.
If you want to go hook upwith this gentleman, then do and you
should still use protection because that meanshe asks every other woman if she's on
birth control or not. So thatmeans he's been free wheeling without any kind
of parachute. Okay, he's jumpingfrom that plane without a parachute. So
(01:47):
on the other hand, if you'relooking for a long term relationship, this
should be a giant red flag thatsays I am never going to go out
with you. I'm gonna confide somethingto you. I'm a grown ass woman.
But can I say that on theradio? Is that a swear word?
I don't know. I like it, you like it? You like
it? Okay. But during thepandemic, I was on dating apps.
(02:10):
Well, I mean that's where Imet my holy o, right, and
this one guy I always got ona phone call pretty quickly within a few
texts, because I want to geta feel for them, and you know
what, he had the nerve tosay to me. We had a lovely
conversation date set up for coffee forthe next couple of days. He literally
said to me, Oh, bythe way, I just want to say
(02:32):
that I always expect sex on thefirst date. Swear to god. He
said that to me, and Isaid, okay, well, don't expect
to go out with me. Thenthat's why I said, you just don't
if you're looking for a real relation. I was looking for a real relationship,
so that was a big red flag. Okay, hi, doctor Wendy
(02:54):
writes this person, So I'm talkingto this guy who I met almost twelve
years ago. Oh well, that'sthe slow boat of love. Never spoke,
but I knew he'd gotten married andwhatnot. Recently we connected and I
learned he got a divorce and hehas three kids. I have kids myself,
but they're teenagers. I would definitelysee myself with some and small kids.
(03:15):
That's not a problem for me.But he doesn't talk much about that.
I ask him questions leaning towards learningwhat he's looking for, and if
he's dating, but he doesn't askme the same questions? Am I overthinking?
Should I just give it some time? Or should I not even proceed
with this because I don't see interest. However, it has been two weeks.
(03:38):
I think he's looking for a goodtime too, and I'm ready to
settle down. Help, I'm followingfor this guy who's doing the bare minimum.
Well, you just answered the question, I'm falling for this guy who's
doing the bare minimum. How doI sot myself for falling? No,
you cannot stop yourself from falling forhim, but you do need to slow
down this boat. You're acting liketwo weeks is two years, right?
(04:02):
You want this guy to open up. What are his girls? What does
he want? I don't know ifyou're having sex yet, but that seems
a little rushed. If you wanta long term, healthy relationship, slow
down this boat. When you sayI'm falling for him, don't fall think
put your brain in gear, okay, because it sure sounds to me like
(04:25):
there might be some kind of anxiousattachment thing going on. You're gonna you
can become a klingon to this guy, move a little bit too fast with
him, So I think he's doingthe bare minimum. I want to say
this, Okay, in the firstfew weeks, he should be jumping through
hoops to see you, to payfor things whatever. If he's not,
(04:46):
then he's not that interested, he'snot that into you. You should just
dump him. I'm not gonna tellyou how to stop falling for him,
but I will tell you that ifhe's not jumping through hoops in the first
two weeks. But then this wholething about I need to know what he's
thinking, whether he wants another family, whether he wants more kids or whatever.
That takes time for all that toroll out. Two weeks is not
enough. But is he paying forthings? Is he organizing dates? Is
(05:09):
he planning stuff? I don't know. Seems a lot. You guys got
five six kids in the mix there. It's a very complicated thing you got
going on, all right, Deardoctor Wendy, help, This person writes
with four exclamation marks. I mean, they really want some help. I'm
constantly finding myself self sabotaging, selftabotaging, sabotage, sabotage, sabatogal sabotaging,
(05:34):
sabotaging, stage sabotaging, self sabotagingany sort of relationship, situation,
meet up, whatever, what's wrongwith me? It's like, as soon
as I feel that there's a connectionwith someone, my mind starts to microanalyze
everything they say or do. Anexample might be if I'm used to calling
(05:55):
or texting, if I'm used tothem calling or texting me every night,
and then they go silent for aday, when I start to send the
cringe text and act clinging, andboom, they end the connection because quote,
it's not what they're looking for.It's a cycle. I keep finding
myself in what the heck? Iwill tell you what the heck, darling.
I used to have that heck keyproblem, and I saw a therapist,
(06:17):
and I really encourage you to seeone too, because you know why,
you're not crazy. You have troublecontrolling your anxiety in the early stages
of relationship where nobody knows where thisis going. Somebody with a secure attachment
style, by the way, stillfeels nervous and excited, a little worried
(06:39):
at the beginning of relationship. Butthey know that they are lovable, They
know they have a strong backbone,and they know that even if this relationship
or this person goes away that they'regoing to be okay, and that gives
them the inner strength to just kindof chill. The world doesn't end if
(06:59):
they don't for a day. Justbusy yourself with your own stuff. I
always say to people, stay happyand busy while you're waiting, because the
answer will be obvious to you ifyou just wait and see. But if
you can't wait, if your urgencyto connect is pushing people away, then
I really highly encourage you to seea therapist, especially a therapist who understands
(07:25):
attachment theory, who can help youget the skills. Look. I spent
in and out different times, atotal of eighteen years in therapy, and
I learned how to self console,how to control my feelings. But listen,
I dated so many bad boys.I threw myself at them. I
(07:46):
did all the wrong things. Islept with them too early. I was
thinking today, So I baked apie today for Ma Julio. I took
some of the dough Kayla, andI cut it into a shape of a
heart for the center of it.It was a strawberry pie. I have
a piece in my piece doesn't havea heart. Ollio's so lucky. He
ate the heart he eat my heartout. But as I was you know,
(08:09):
there's a technique, by the way, with butter and flour when you're
making the crust, is you justput it between your forefinger and your thumb
and you squish it aside, sothat makes the layers of butter that starts
to fluff up to get a flakycrust. Right. And as I'm doing
it, I suddenly have this memorythat you know, years and years ago,
when I was a young single woman, I was throwing myself at this
playboy. It's a bake forum.One time, I rent all these stores
(08:31):
before online books, and I foundthe perfect architecture book for this new business
he was designing, and I droppedit off anonymously at his place of work,
you know, a little card.And I remember one time baking him
a pie and just dropping it offover it. I mean, I threw
myself at this guy who was doingworse than the bare minimum, right,
(08:52):
And I was so injured and sodamaged that when I spoke to him after
dropping off the pie, and hedidn't mention it, and I brought it
up and I said, hey,you did you get the pie? I
left it at your apartment door.And he said, I mean it sounded
like a freaking stockard. And hesaid, yeah, it was very buttery,
(09:16):
flaky crust. I'll tell you thatsustained to me for like three months.
He said something nice. I meanthat's how crazy I was. Oh
that was a compliment. Yeah,oh like that was that was a step
up. And it was a flaky, buttery crust that shows the bare minimum.
That's that. He asked how muchI accepted. That's all I needed.
I just needed vapors. And Itell you everything that you just did
(09:37):
and you got anybody would be luckyto snatch you up pie and architecture books
like that's so thoughtful. L saysthat all the time. You know what
he said. The other day hewas trying to go to work and he
had a suit on and everything.Go into an office and I turn around.
He's got a broom in a dustpanand he's sweeping the floor. And
h he says, I sure,I'm lucky you're such a good cook,
because you're a messy cook. Hewas literally like he didn't care. He
(09:58):
was so happy because I'm so happyto sweep this floor. Is such a
good cook. You're listening to doctorWendy Walsh on demand from KFI AM six
forty. You know, I getreally excited when I have a guest that
has a bigger brain than me.I measured actually his like four inches in
circumference, bigger than mine. Hehas more degrees than you can imagine.
(10:20):
I'm sure I would need a dictionaryto translate some of his research papers,
but it's always a thrill. Mynext guest is doctor Dave Raven. He's
not only an MD. Is Seewhen they have a whole bunch of letters
after their names, you got tolet go whoa not only a medical doctor,
a PhD, A neuroscientist, apsychiatrist. Yeah, that's like up
above a psychologist because they can giveyou the med stew He is co founder
(10:45):
of something called Apollo Neuroscience. We'regonna talk about later, but a lot
of his research has to do withketamine, an MDA m A assisted therapy
with his patients. Basically, he'sa leader psychedelic field. Welcome, doctor
Rabind, how are you great?Thanks so much? Tracking me, Wendy
R. Brain is like bursting outyour ears. You're too kind of so,
(11:09):
you know, ketamine has been inthe news recently sadly, a beloved
celebrity who suffered with addiction most ofhis life, Matthew Perry from Friends,
passed away and when the toxicology resultscame out, they said he had an
overdose of ketamine. All right,First of all, let's go to the
beginning. What is a psychedelic drug? What is ketamine? Is it something
(11:30):
like having to do with magic mushrooms. That's a great place to start.
And I think one of the mostcommon misunderstandings that we have is about what
the word psychedelic means, because itdoesn't actually just refer to drugs. It
actually refers to a state of mind. And psyche means mind from Latin Dellos
means to show or to reveal.So what we're really talking about is entering
(11:50):
states of mind or states of consciousawareness where we're revealing parts of ourselves to
us that are effectively not necessarily noticeable, things that have happened to us in
the past, past memories, partsof ourselves that maybe we don't like,
that we shoved underneath the surface becausepeople in our childhood told us that those,
you know, weren't the best partswe should be showing off. And
(12:13):
so in us with the psychedelic druglike ketnymine or MDMA or psilocybin, which
are in trials now, and ketamineis the only legal psychedelic medicine we have
available for depression. These medicines aremolecular tools that help us to basically quiet
our survival ego mind for a shortamount of time so that we can bear
(12:37):
witness to what lies underneath the surfaceof our consciousness, and so it reduces
our defenses and we're able to actproperly. Are unconscious, you know.
I teach undergrads, and when I'mtrying to explain the difference between the conscious
and the unconscious, I show oneof those classic pictures of the iceberg with
just the tip above the ocean andthe giant iceberg underneath it, and I
(13:00):
say, that's our conscious up thereabove. That's what we're aware of,
our thoughts. We think we knoweverything, but that's it. The rest
is going on below surface. Iknow lay people like to use the word
subconscious, but as fancy people usethe word unconscious. In the unconscious is
really the big motivators for our behavior. So you're saying, psychedelics help us
(13:20):
look underwater and see what's there.Exactly, and you nailed it with that
metaphor. I think that's one ofthe best metaphors for consciousness because when you
and the most important thing is youcan access psychedelic states of mind. And
we all have accessed these states ofmind without drugs. So the most common
way is in dreams. Right.We know that when we dream, we're
starting to experience things about ourselves andabout the world that we don't necessarily notice
(13:45):
when we're awake. And part ofthat is because our ego, our defensive
mind that's awake and active all thetime during the day, feel safe enough
to relax and calm down, andthen we can become aware and start to
notice things going on beneath the surface. So if you think about what psychedelic
medicines are doing, and what deepbreathing, intentional breathing states are doing,
a meditation and yoga, they're allbringing us access to the same states which
(14:11):
are effectively psychedelic, like dreams.And ketamine is really interesting because it's only
sixty to ninety minutes as a therapy, but it gives people access to a
very when used properly, a verycomfortable, safe, dream like state where
they can start to self reflect nonjudgmentally on themselves. And when you've been
judging yourself for maybe days, weeks, months, decades, being able to
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observe yourself without judgment could be oneof the most therapeutic things you've experienced in
your entire life. And I wantto add this about dreams. My belief
system on dreams is that they're neverliteral folks. They're always metaphors. And
everything in the dream, whether it'sthe chair, the cigarette, you,
the person they're talking to, isa piece of you. So I always
ask you, like, well,if you were the chair, what would
you think of that? You know, if you are the other person you
(14:56):
were talking to, what you think? And that's one of the ways to
access some good what di if froidcall it the Royal Road to the unconscious
dream material. I years ago,when I was in psychotherapy psychoanalysis had EMDR.
Look. I opened my hands likethis when I said, at EMDR,
it feels like it's opening a circuitboard. And for those who don't
(15:16):
know what does EMDR stand for,it's I have to think eye movement disensitation
in an R and rabbit. Iwas something and so the clinician just takes
their finger and goes back and forth, and you just watch it back and
forth like a tennis match with youreyes, and it somehow relaxes your consciousness
and you're able to access early memories. I actually, in EMDR remembered in
(15:39):
a non traumatic way some abuse bya dentist when I was six. And
the way I described the memory afterwardsis I said to her, you know,
it feels like you know when youleave a restaurant and you go,
oh my god, I forgot mypurse and you run back real quick because
it's something important, but you justran back to get it. The world
wasn't ending, just oh my god, I forgot my purse. That was
(16:00):
Oh my god, I forgot thatmemory, And there it is. So
let's talk about uses of you said, ketamine is the only legal psychedelic drug
at this point, what is itmostly prescribe for. So ketamine is only
FDA cleared at this point for treatmentresistant depression, but it's used off label
for PTSD, and early studies haveshown that is also effective when used properly
(16:22):
for certain anxiety disorders social anxiety disorders. So it has because the modern theory
of psychology and psychiatry around mental healthis that most mental illnesses seem to stem
from one or multiple past traumatic ornegative threatening experiences that we've had that have
shaped the way we see ourselves inthe world. That we might have buried
(16:45):
deep down beneath the surface of thewater in that iceberg metaphor right deep iceberg
part that might be and probably ismaybe one hundred million times as big as
the part that's sticking up out ofthe surface. Then ketamine therapy in the
context of having therapists a therapist ortwo with you who understand how to help
provide this effectively safe space for youto bring up whatever comes up so that
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you don't resist it. Right,because if you were feeling and you have
the training, so when that memorycame up for you, you have the
training to kind of address it andallow it and process it. But for
people who have those kinds of memoriescome up in an unsafe environment terrifying,
it's terrifying. It can be almostlike reliving a nightmare, right or the
(17:30):
or the traumatic experience itself. Andso the main caveat of psychedelic medicines,
the two main caveasts are number One, they're not for everyone, and number
two they are they need to beadministered in the proper safe setting. Yeah,
you don't go home and do this. This is something in a clinical
setting with somebody observing and helping youthrough the situation. You're listening to doctor
(17:52):
Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI Amsix forty my guest doctor Dave Raven,
medical doctor, psychiatrist, neuroscientist,one of the leaders in psychedelic medicine,
Doctor Rieban, Can we talk alittle bit about Matthew Perry's death heartbreaking?
They say it was because of Ketymine. I thought Ketymine was safe. Yeah,
(18:15):
it's a great question, and youknow, I think that it goes
without saying that Matthew Perry's death wasan absolute tragedy and that as a medical
community, we probably could have donea better job helping him manage his addiction.
Addiction itself is one of the mostchallenging mental illnesses to manage today,
and interestingly, psychedelic medicines used properly, as we were talking about earlier,
(18:37):
in the safe environment, are oneof the best treatments that we have for
addiction. Now that is coming downthe clinical trials pipeline but I think the
main point to make here is thatketymine is actually one of the safest me
psychedelic medicines and the safest medicines fordepression with the lowest risk of side effects
that we see across the board indepression treatment. Wow, did he pass
(19:00):
away from this? Because it hassedative properties, and ketamine has actually been
used for over seventy years, originallyas an anesthetic agent to prevent soldiers from
going into shock when they're wounded inVietnam. That's how it originally started to
be used. And it's used asa surgical anesthetic to reduce pain and to
help you don't get into hot tubswhen you have an anesthetic. Don't get
(19:22):
into hot tubs with anything that sedatesyou or anything that's an anesthetic. And
he had, from what we cantell, probably some other low levels of
other medicines he was taking that werealso slightly sedating on board. And so
you know, people can pass outin hot tubs without any drugs on board,
just by getting too hot. Allof a sudden, you add a
sedative, hypnotic medication or something thatis slightly anesthetic in there, and you
(19:44):
got Whitney Houston, and you havea real problem. And I think that's
why we don't recommend in general,using any kind of sedative orhypnotic drug when
you're in a hot tub, includingalcohol, but also to have somebody with
you if you're taking any of thosemedicines and you happen to go into an
environment like that where you could passout a sauna, a hot tub.
You know, most drownings unfortunately occurin three feet of water, right,
(20:07):
So we really need to be Thisis just a warning call, I think
to us to just be more carefuland mindful about what we're putting into our
bodies when we're going into these seeminglybenign situation. Yeah, I mentioned Whitney
Houston. I remember interviewing a doctorafter her tragic death, and he looked
at the toxicology report and said,there was a number of not only sedatives,
but respiratory depressants. And so evenif you you know, for an
(20:30):
average person, if we happen toslide underwater, we have like an effect
where we all you know, jerkand open up our mouths. And she
wouldn't have had the right that thattool available under those medications. So heartbreaking
and One of the common side effectsof ketamine that you know, we always
educate people on when they're using itunder supervision is that ketamine, because of
the nature of its dissociate and anaesthetic properties, it makes it a little
(20:53):
hard to move at peak doses.And that's why that's why people you know,
we we make sure people are supervisedwhen they're using it. But that's
also why it works great for surgery, So we want we always try to
make sure that people understand you maynot be able to take care of yourself
for the next hour, so weneed to be extra careful that during that
(21:14):
hour you're supervised, you're not doinganything potentially dangerous. And unfortunately Matthew Perry
didn't have that kind of supervision,and so you know, ketamine was unlikely
to be the cause of death,but the misuse of it might and likely
contributed to and probably with some ofthe other medications. Exactly, it's a
combo. Yeah, May he restin peace. Now. I want to
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talk a little bit about vibrations andour body. You know, one of
the things I teach in my healthpsychology class is it's interesting that while religion
happens to be in decline, inour country, in Western cultures, that
religiosity is highly correlated with better healthand longer life. Well partly because there
isn't a religion who preaches sex,drugs and rock and roll, so they
(21:59):
kind of clean living'. But alsothe community benefits all kinds of things.
But there's also this chanting every religionin the world, whether you're going or
Hail Mary, full of grazo Lordis with the You've got some kind of
repetitive sound that makes vibrations in yourbody. How does this relax somebody?
(22:19):
So it's a great question, andI think you know religion. There's three
important things we can take away fromreligion. You mentioned all three of them
just now, right. So oneof them is community, right. Part
of why religion is so beneficials becauseit helps bring us together. Number two,
it gives us something to believe in. It's greater than ourselves, hope,
right. And we know from studiesnow of people who have had terminal
(22:41):
illnesses that if you believe in anythingbigger than yourself, your chances of survival
and your experience of end of lifeis better quality of life wise. And
number three is the chanting and thevibrations and the singing, and all of
that comes together around what happens inour nervous system, which is it helps
(23:02):
us feel safe. Right, Andthis is going back to one of my
favorite topics and I think yours too, which is how we evolved as human
beings and animals is we evolve tokeep each other and ourselves safe as a
priority. So if we feel threatenedin our environment, our bodies don't function
properly because they take all of ouravailable blood and resources and send it to
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heart, lungs, skeletal muscles,motor cortex, fear center to get us
out of that threatening situation, toget to safety. And once we're in
safety, all of a sudden,we take all that blood and we send
it back to reproduction, digestion,immunity, metabolism at sleep, rest,
and recovery, empathy, right,all the stuff that we want to have
active when we're not running from alion. So training our bodies over time
(23:45):
with these three things. Belief,community, safety from other people around us
that we can trust and feel comfortablearound. And vibration all help, whether
you're singing it or whether you're feelingit through something like apollo or a hug
or a purring cat all forms ofthe healing vibration. They all help to
amplify safety pathways in the brain andbody, which reduces stress and anxiety.
(24:07):
Now you mentioned the word Apollo.You have a company called Apollo that's got
a vibration device that someone can wearlike on their wrists, their opera arm,
and what does it do. Sowe developed the apollotechnology actually out of
my research into how psychedelic medicines workand when I was being when I was
training in psychedelic assisted therapy in overthe last ten years, I was always
(24:29):
interested, why do these medicines plustherapy with just a few doses. We're
not talking daily dosing. We're talking, you know, three to twelve doses
over twenty weeks, right, Soit's very few doses, and then there's
a break and people get better inthe short term, and then they stay
better long term, even if they'venever responded to any other treatments. So
to put it very clearly, someof the evidence that's coming out now around
(24:53):
MDMA assisted therapy, which is onthe FDA's desk for clearance right now,
and with ketamine for depression, whichis one of the only anti suicidal medications
we've ever discovered incredible, right wow, and psilocybin for depression, which is
having similar benefits. These are showingin our trials some of the greatest results
in terms of outcomes that we've everseen in the history of psychiatry. But
they also require you to take apsychedelic drug, which is not for everyone,
(25:17):
and that requires therapists to be there. I'm a control freak, I'm
afraid of drugs, right, andlots of people are and lots of people
by did I take that little vibratorout of your hand chest? Well,
lots of people aren't good candidates fordrugs too, like many children, right,
and elderly folks. And so wethought, well, if we can
figure out the core pathways that arebeing activated by the psychedelic therapy, maybe
we can develop technology that activates thosepathways on the go for us and helps
(25:41):
boost safety on the go. Andso we figured out in the University of
Pittsburgh Department of Psychiatry that we coulddeliver soothing vibrations to the body that kind
of feel like if you're familiar withholding a purring cat or getting a hug,
and that feeling that feeling is somethingwe can induce for ourselves with breathing,
and Apollo works by sending these soothingvibrations to the body that induce that
(26:02):
safe, natural, meditative breathing stateon the go. And so what is
it? You wear it for howlong? And it's I mean, I'm
holding it. It's a gentle vibrationfeeling. But how does it actually work?
So it works by you can wearit as long as you want.
It works anywhere in your body.It's a pod. You can clip it
onto your body. You can wearit through clothing or overclothing. You can
(26:22):
wear it on a strap. Mostpeople wear it on their chest or ankle
or wrist, and you can wearit as long as you want. It's
basically music that you can't hear thatyour body is sensitive to that calms the
body and helps you to just feelsafe, in control, clear and focused.
You're listening to doctor Wendy Walsh ondemand from KFI Am six forty.
(26:44):
My guest doctor Dave Raebin, amedical doctor, a psychiatrist, a neuroscientist,
PhD. More letters after his namethan you could ever imagine, basically
someone you should trust. Earlier,you were telling us that you have this
device called Apollo. I should say, where do people get this Apollo thing?
They can go online and do Apollodot apolloneuro dot com, oh,
Apollo neuro or wearable hugs dot com. Wearable hugs isn't that cute? Dot
(27:10):
com? And this is vibrating thingyou can wear around It puts you in
this state of relaxation, so you'renot in a stress anxiety fear state.
My question is this, didn't mothernature design some anxiety for a darn good
reason? And if we walk aroundtwo relaxed all the time, maybe we're
not making good decisions. That's absolutelytrue. And this is actually one of
the things that's most commonly not taughtcorrectly is that we did evolve that system
(27:36):
for a reason. But the evolutionarybiology field, and Eric Handell, who's
also a famous psychiatrist and neuroscientist whowon the Nobel Prize in two thousand,
basically won it for discovering that thereare only certain things we're supposed to have
our fear center fight or flight systemturn on for. Oh, and those
are actual survival threats running from alion, running from a lion, or
(27:59):
por lack of food, lack ofwater, lack of air, and lack
of safe shelter. That's it.But all the interpersonal problems, don't,
They all boil down to I'll beleft alone in the jungle to die if
they all abandon me. And that'san assumption that we make that often increases
our chances of being left alone becausethen we act from a point of insecurity
(28:22):
rather than strength. And so whenwe act from insecurity, what do we
do? We make more selfish decisions? Right? Wow. So that's called
in psychology, it's called misappropriation ofthreat, which simply put, is just
interpreting things as threatening when they're actuallynot right. And so that's what all
these meditations, soothing touch, soothingmusic, psychology, and psychotherapy techniques have
all focused on, is how dowe teach people to understand the skills and
(28:48):
practice the skills of reminding ourselves thatwe're not under actual threat when we're not
under actual threat, so that wecan allow our recovery system to do its
thing and keep us feeling good unlesswe're actually running from a lion. Because
when we're actually running from a lion, our bodies don't allow us to do
anything else. We are in thatmode and we have to get out of
there before we can do anything else. And in today's time, we're not
(29:11):
running from lions. We were runningfrom emails exactly, traffic, mud slides,
whatever it may be. You know, over Christmas, I was at
a Christmas party and I met apsychotherapist from Russia, and I said,
what's the difference between what are thebig issues in Russia compared to here?
You know, I love to findout And she said, well, first
of all, Russians think it's crazythat Americans always want to get rid of
(29:33):
their anxiety. Russians are like,we need to be worried, we have
anxiety, we don't want to getrid of it. About how fascinating anyway,
let's talk about relationships, love andhow this Apollo device can even help
your relationships. So one of thebiggest challenges that we face in feeling afraid
(29:56):
or feeling stressed is thinking, likeyou alluded to earlier, that we might
not be loved or we might notbe accepted by our colleagues, our friends,
our peers, our families, andthat can make us feel really unpleasant
and uncomfortable because we all as humanswant to be loved, We want to
be accepted. We want to beconnected to our community. It's fundamentally important,
(30:19):
critical for our healthy, happy survival, and for joy in our lives.
And we have huge parts of ourbrains that evolved, like the insolent
cortex, that are solely responsible forempathy and connecting with other human beings,
and we need to use those parts. So tools like Apollo we develop to
try to help retrain us to rememberhow to use those parts of our brains
(30:41):
again through our sense of touch.And what's really interesting is that the two
states that are most vulnerable and thereforescary for us when we when we're feeling
stressed out are sleep because sleep iswhen we're completely physically defenseless. So we
have to feel safe to get intodeep and rem sleep states, which is
(31:02):
where where we get all our physicaland emotional mental recovery. And then sexual
and intimacy in relationships because oh yeah, you've got to be relaxed. You've
got to be relaxed, and theroom's got to be clean, Julio,
if you're listening, we need toclean their bedroom. Okay, they'll work
better, yeah, because you're reallylike allowing yourself to completely open up and
connect with another human being, andthat's vulnerable. And especially if you're a
(31:26):
woman, you're you're often uh,you know, and you're and you're interacting
and dating men. Right, menhave more physical prowess, more strength,
ment. There's a huge history ofviolence against women from men. We can't
deny it, right, That's justpart of our unfortunate and unfortunate part of
our society, and that collective traumaexists. And so a lot of the
(31:48):
tools we use help around sex andintimacy and love and connection are really about
just helping women and men feel safein their own bodies. And over the
last few years we figure out away to do that for women for intimacy
using Apollo, which is really exciting. So Apollo has a separate setting,
like a vibe setting that increases intimacyfor women. It does what's it called.
(32:08):
It's called the love vibe of course, and anybody who has the Apollo
app and the Smart Vibes sub brainof Apollo, which is where we the
Apollo as a device comes with eighteight vibes that you can select from which
allow you to access different states ofanything from high energy and focus and socializing
(32:30):
to calm relaxation meditation. This isa special vibe that we released to all
of the subscription users that are membersof Smart Vibes, which allows people to
access the more advanced and interesting statesthat we've discovered over the years, and
one of them is intimacy for womenand helping women feel safe enough in their
own bodies to allow themselves to reallyconnect with their partners physically, mentally,
(32:52):
emotionally. So would it be possiblewe can give one away to a listener?
Of course, all right, listento it. Verdie next week.
Next week when I get one ofmy hot little hands, Cayla's going to
be taking your calls, We're goingto open up the phone lines and you
can call in and win an Apollodevice that has the Love Vibe on it.
(33:13):
It is always a pleasure to meetsomeone of your caliber, your expertise,
and you're well spoken, doctor Rabin. Now where can people find out
more about you? Please come findme on my website at Apollo dot clinic
or doctor Dave dot io, andcome find me on socials. I love
to hear from you and hear yourthoughts. It's at doctor David Rabin on
(33:34):
Instagram and Twitter. You got doctorDave dot Io. Look at that,
that's a URL man. You've beenlistening to Doctor Wendy Walsh. You can
always hear us live on KFI AMsix forty from seven to nine pm on
Sunday and anytime on demand on theiHeartRadio app
This is doctor Wendy Walsh and you'relistening to k I Am six forty,
the Doctor Wendy Waalsh Show on demandon the iHeartRadio app Doctor Doctor Billy the
Louse, I Gotta loving you.K I Am six forty. You have
Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. Thisis the Doctor Wendy Walls Show. Just
(00:23):
a reminder. I'm a psychology professorat cal State Channel Islands, but I
am obsessed with the science of love. I've written three books on relationships and
I did my dissertation on attachment theory. If you don't know what your attachment
style is, should take one ofthose online tests because you'll learn a lot.
It explains all of life to me, Kayla, attachment he really does
(00:45):
how everybody behaves. Anyway, I'mgoing to my social media. You can
follow me on Instagram, TikTok,wherever, YouTube, whatever, at doctor
Wendy Walsh, at d R WendyWalsh. So here we go, going
too the DMS. Hey, ohyes, yes, this woman. Okay,
she's getting ready to go on afirst date. Hi, Doctor Wendy,
can I get some input? Imet this guy on a dating app.
(01:06):
We're supposed to meet up tomorrow forour first date. For the first
time, he just asked me ifI'm on birth control, which really threw
me off. Feels like he's tryingto see if we're going to have sex
without protection. Should I cancel?Am I overreacting? Okay? Let me
(01:27):
I gotta explain here. First ofall, it depends what you want.
If you want to go hook upwith this gentleman, then do and you
should still use protection because that meanshe asks every other woman if she's on
birth control or not. So thatmeans he's been free wheeling without any kind
of parachute. Okay, he's jumpingfrom that plane without a parachute. So
(01:47):
on the other hand, if you'relooking for a long term relationship, this
should be a giant red flag thatsays I am never going to go out
with you. I'm gonna confide somethingto you. I'm a grown ass woman.
But can I say that on theradio? Is that a swear word?
I don't know. I like it, you like it? You like
it? Okay. But during thepandemic, I was on dating apps.
(02:10):
Well, I mean that's where Imet my holy o, right, and
this one guy I always got ona phone call pretty quickly within a few
texts, because I want to geta feel for them, and you know
what, he had the nerve tosay to me. We had a lovely
conversation date set up for coffee forthe next couple of days. He literally
said to me, Oh, bythe way, I just want to say
(02:32):
that I always expect sex on thefirst date. Swear to god. He
said that to me, and Isaid, okay, well, don't expect
to go out with me. Thenthat's why I said, you just don't
if you're looking for a real relation. I was looking for a real relationship,
so that was a big red flag. Okay, hi, doctor Wendy
(02:54):
writes this person, So I'm talkingto this guy who I met almost twelve
years ago. Oh well, that'sthe slow boat of love. Never spoke,
but I knew he'd gotten married andwhatnot. Recently we connected and I
learned he got a divorce and hehas three kids. I have kids myself,
but they're teenagers. I would definitelysee myself with some and small kids.
(03:15):
That's not a problem for me.But he doesn't talk much about that.
I ask him questions leaning towards learningwhat he's looking for, and if
he's dating, but he doesn't askme the same questions? Am I overthinking?
Should I just give it some time? Or should I not even proceed
with this because I don't see interest. However, it has been two weeks.
(03:38):
I think he's looking for a goodtime too, and I'm ready to
settle down. Help, I'm followingfor this guy who's doing the bare minimum.
Well, you just answered the question, I'm falling for this guy who's
doing the bare minimum. How doI sot myself for falling? No,
you cannot stop yourself from falling forhim, but you do need to slow
down this boat. You're acting liketwo weeks is two years, right?
(04:02):
You want this guy to open up. What are his girls? What does
he want? I don't know ifyou're having sex yet, but that seems
a little rushed. If you wanta long term, healthy relationship, slow
down this boat. When you sayI'm falling for him, don't fall think
put your brain in gear, okay, because it sure sounds to me like
(04:25):
there might be some kind of anxiousattachment thing going on. You're gonna you
can become a klingon to this guy, move a little bit too fast with
him, So I think he's doingthe bare minimum. I want to say
this, Okay, in the firstfew weeks, he should be jumping through
hoops to see you, to payfor things whatever. If he's not,
(04:46):
then he's not that interested, he'snot that into you. You should just
dump him. I'm not gonna tellyou how to stop falling for him,
but I will tell you that ifhe's not jumping through hoops in the first
two weeks. But then this wholething about I need to know what he's
thinking, whether he wants another family, whether he wants more kids or whatever.
That takes time for all that toroll out. Two weeks is not
enough. But is he paying forthings? Is he organizing dates? Is
(05:09):
he planning stuff? I don't know. Seems a lot. You guys got
five six kids in the mix there. It's a very complicated thing you got
going on, all right, Deardoctor Wendy, help, This person writes
with four exclamation marks. I mean, they really want some help. I'm
constantly finding myself self sabotaging, selftabotaging, sabotage, sabotage, sabatogal sabotaging,
(05:34):
sabotaging, stage sabotaging, self sabotagingany sort of relationship, situation,
meet up, whatever, what's wrongwith me? It's like, as soon
as I feel that there's a connectionwith someone, my mind starts to microanalyze
everything they say or do. Anexample might be if I'm used to calling
(05:55):
or texting, if I'm used tothem calling or texting me every night,
and then they go silent for aday, when I start to send the
cringe text and act clinging, andboom, they end the connection because quote,
it's not what they're looking for.It's a cycle. I keep finding
myself in what the heck? Iwill tell you what the heck, darling.
I used to have that heck keyproblem, and I saw a therapist,
(06:17):
and I really encourage you to seeone too, because you know why,
you're not crazy. You have troublecontrolling your anxiety in the early stages
of relationship where nobody knows where thisis going. Somebody with a secure attachment
style, by the way, stillfeels nervous and excited, a little worried
(06:39):
at the beginning of relationship. Butthey know that they are lovable, They
know they have a strong backbone,and they know that even if this relationship
or this person goes away that they'regoing to be okay, and that gives
them the inner strength to just kindof chill. The world doesn't end if
(06:59):
they don't for a day. Justbusy yourself with your own stuff. I
always say to people, stay happyand busy while you're waiting, because the
answer will be obvious to you ifyou just wait and see. But if
you can't wait, if your urgencyto connect is pushing people away, then
I really highly encourage you to seea therapist, especially a therapist who understands
(07:25):
attachment theory, who can help youget the skills. Look. I spent
in and out different times, atotal of eighteen years in therapy, and
I learned how to self console,how to control my feelings. But listen,
I dated so many bad boys.I threw myself at them. I
(07:46):
did all the wrong things. Islept with them too early. I was
thinking today, So I baked apie today for Ma Julio. I took
some of the dough Kayla, andI cut it into a shape of a
heart for the center of it.It was a strawberry pie. I have
a piece in my piece doesn't havea heart. Ollio's so lucky. He
ate the heart he eat my heartout. But as I was you know,
(08:09):
there's a technique, by the way, with butter and flour when you're
making the crust, is you justput it between your forefinger and your thumb
and you squish it aside, sothat makes the layers of butter that starts
to fluff up to get a flakycrust. Right. And as I'm doing
it, I suddenly have this memorythat you know, years and years ago,
when I was a young single woman, I was throwing myself at this
playboy. It's a bake forum.One time, I rent all these stores
(08:31):
before online books, and I foundthe perfect architecture book for this new business
he was designing, and I droppedit off anonymously at his place of work,
you know, a little card.And I remember one time baking him
a pie and just dropping it offover it. I mean, I threw
myself at this guy who was doingworse than the bare minimum, right,
(08:52):
And I was so injured and sodamaged that when I spoke to him after
dropping off the pie, and hedidn't mention it, and I brought it
up and I said, hey,you did you get the pie? I
left it at your apartment door.And he said, I mean it sounded
like a freaking stockard. And hesaid, yeah, it was very buttery,
(09:16):
flaky crust. I'll tell you thatsustained to me for like three months.
He said something nice. I meanthat's how crazy I was. Oh
that was a compliment. Yeah,oh like that was that was a step
up. And it was a flaky, buttery crust that shows the bare minimum.
That's that. He asked how muchI accepted. That's all I needed.
I just needed vapors. And Itell you everything that you just did
(09:37):
and you got anybody would be luckyto snatch you up pie and architecture books
like that's so thoughtful. L saysthat all the time. You know what
he said. The other day hewas trying to go to work and he
had a suit on and everything.Go into an office and I turn around.
He's got a broom in a dustpanand he's sweeping the floor. And
h he says, I sure,I'm lucky you're such a good cook,
because you're a messy cook. Hewas literally like he didn't care. He
(09:58):
was so happy because I'm so happyto sweep this floor. Is such a
good cook. You're listening to doctorWendy Walsh on demand from KFI AM six
forty. You know, I getreally excited when I have a guest that
has a bigger brain than me.I measured actually his like four inches in
circumference, bigger than mine. Hehas more degrees than you can imagine.
(10:20):
I'm sure I would need a dictionaryto translate some of his research papers,
but it's always a thrill. Mynext guest is doctor Dave Raven. He's
not only an MD. Is Seewhen they have a whole bunch of letters
after their names, you got tolet go whoa not only a medical doctor,
a PhD, A neuroscientist, apsychiatrist. Yeah, that's like up
above a psychologist because they can giveyou the med stew He is co founder
(10:45):
of something called Apollo Neuroscience. We'regonna talk about later, but a lot
of his research has to do withketamine, an MDA m A assisted therapy
with his patients. Basically, he'sa leader psychedelic field. Welcome, doctor
Rabind, how are you great?Thanks so much? Tracking me, Wendy
R. Brain is like bursting outyour ears. You're too kind of so,
(11:09):
you know, ketamine has been inthe news recently sadly, a beloved
celebrity who suffered with addiction most ofhis life, Matthew Perry from Friends,
passed away and when the toxicology resultscame out, they said he had an
overdose of ketamine. All right,First of all, let's go to the
beginning. What is a psychedelic drug? What is ketamine? Is it something
(11:30):
like having to do with magic mushrooms. That's a great place to start.
And I think one of the mostcommon misunderstandings that we have is about what
the word psychedelic means, because itdoesn't actually just refer to drugs. It
actually refers to a state of mind. And psyche means mind from Latin Dellos
means to show or to reveal.So what we're really talking about is entering
(11:50):
states of mind or states of consciousawareness where we're revealing parts of ourselves to
us that are effectively not necessarily noticeable, things that have happened to us in
the past, past memories, partsof ourselves that maybe we don't like,
that we shoved underneath the surface becausepeople in our childhood told us that those,
you know, weren't the best partswe should be showing off. And
(12:13):
so in us with the psychedelic druglike ketnymine or MDMA or psilocybin, which
are in trials now, and ketamineis the only legal psychedelic medicine we have
available for depression. These medicines aremolecular tools that help us to basically quiet
our survival ego mind for a shortamount of time so that we can bear
(12:37):
witness to what lies underneath the surfaceof our consciousness, and so it reduces
our defenses and we're able to actproperly. Are unconscious, you know.
I teach undergrads, and when I'mtrying to explain the difference between the conscious
and the unconscious, I show oneof those classic pictures of the iceberg with
just the tip above the ocean andthe giant iceberg underneath it, and I
(13:00):
say, that's our conscious up thereabove. That's what we're aware of,
our thoughts. We think we knoweverything, but that's it. The rest
is going on below surface. Iknow lay people like to use the word
subconscious, but as fancy people usethe word unconscious. In the unconscious is
really the big motivators for our behavior. So you're saying, psychedelics help us
(13:20):
look underwater and see what's there.Exactly, and you nailed it with that
metaphor. I think that's one ofthe best metaphors for consciousness because when you
and the most important thing is youcan access psychedelic states of mind. And
we all have accessed these states ofmind without drugs. So the most common
way is in dreams. Right.We know that when we dream, we're
starting to experience things about ourselves andabout the world that we don't necessarily notice
(13:45):
when we're awake. And part ofthat is because our ego, our defensive
mind that's awake and active all thetime during the day, feel safe enough
to relax and calm down, andthen we can become aware and start to
notice things going on beneath the surface. So if you think about what psychedelic
medicines are doing, and what deepbreathing, intentional breathing states are doing,
a meditation and yoga, they're allbringing us access to the same states which
(14:11):
are effectively psychedelic, like dreams.And ketamine is really interesting because it's only
sixty to ninety minutes as a therapy, but it gives people access to a
very when used properly, a verycomfortable, safe, dream like state where
they can start to self reflect nonjudgmentally on themselves. And when you've been
judging yourself for maybe days, weeks, months, decades, being able to
(14:35):
observe yourself without judgment could be oneof the most therapeutic things you've experienced in
your entire life. And I wantto add this about dreams. My belief
system on dreams is that they're neverliteral folks. They're always metaphors. And
everything in the dream, whether it'sthe chair, the cigarette, you,
the person they're talking to, isa piece of you. So I always
ask you, like, well,if you were the chair, what would
you think of that? You know, if you are the other person you
(14:56):
were talking to, what you think? And that's one of the ways to
access some good what di if froidcall it the Royal Road to the unconscious
dream material. I years ago,when I was in psychotherapy psychoanalysis had EMDR.
Look. I opened my hands likethis when I said, at EMDR,
it feels like it's opening a circuitboard. And for those who don't
(15:16):
know what does EMDR stand for,it's I have to think eye movement disensitation
in an R and rabbit. Iwas something and so the clinician just takes
their finger and goes back and forth, and you just watch it back and
forth like a tennis match with youreyes, and it somehow relaxes your consciousness
and you're able to access early memories. I actually, in EMDR remembered in
(15:39):
a non traumatic way some abuse bya dentist when I was six. And
the way I described the memory afterwardsis I said to her, you know,
it feels like you know when youleave a restaurant and you go,
oh my god, I forgot mypurse and you run back real quick because
it's something important, but you justran back to get it. The world
wasn't ending, just oh my god, I forgot my purse. That was
(16:00):
Oh my god, I forgot thatmemory, And there it is. So
let's talk about uses of you said, ketamine is the only legal psychedelic drug
at this point, what is itmostly prescribe for. So ketamine is only
FDA cleared at this point for treatmentresistant depression, but it's used off label
for PTSD, and early studies haveshown that is also effective when used properly
(16:22):
for certain anxiety disorders social anxiety disorders. So it has because the modern theory
of psychology and psychiatry around mental healthis that most mental illnesses seem to stem
from one or multiple past traumatic ornegative threatening experiences that we've had that have
shaped the way we see ourselves inthe world. That we might have buried
(16:45):
deep down beneath the surface of thewater in that iceberg metaphor right deep iceberg
part that might be and probably ismaybe one hundred million times as big as
the part that's sticking up out ofthe surface. Then ketamine therapy in the
context of having therapists a therapist ortwo with you who understand how to help
provide this effectively safe space for youto bring up whatever comes up so that
(17:10):
you don't resist it. Right,because if you were feeling and you have
the training, so when that memorycame up for you, you have the
training to kind of address it andallow it and process it. But for
people who have those kinds of memoriescome up in an unsafe environment terrifying,
it's terrifying. It can be almostlike reliving a nightmare, right or the
(17:30):
or the traumatic experience itself. Andso the main caveat of psychedelic medicines,
the two main caveasts are number One, they're not for everyone, and number
two they are they need to beadministered in the proper safe setting. Yeah,
you don't go home and do this. This is something in a clinical
setting with somebody observing and helping youthrough the situation. You're listening to doctor
(17:52):
Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI Amsix forty my guest doctor Dave Raven,
medical doctor, psychiatrist, neuroscientist,one of the leaders in psychedelic medicine,
Doctor Rieban, Can we talk alittle bit about Matthew Perry's death heartbreaking?
They say it was because of Ketymine. I thought Ketymine was safe. Yeah,
(18:15):
it's a great question, and youknow, I think that it goes
without saying that Matthew Perry's death wasan absolute tragedy and that as a medical
community, we probably could have donea better job helping him manage his addiction.
Addiction itself is one of the mostchallenging mental illnesses to manage today,
and interestingly, psychedelic medicines used properly, as we were talking about earlier,
(18:37):
in the safe environment, are oneof the best treatments that we have for
addiction. Now that is coming downthe clinical trials pipeline but I think the
main point to make here is thatketymine is actually one of the safest me
psychedelic medicines and the safest medicines fordepression with the lowest risk of side effects
that we see across the board indepression treatment. Wow, did he pass
(19:00):
away from this? Because it hassedative properties, and ketamine has actually been
used for over seventy years, originallyas an anesthetic agent to prevent soldiers from
going into shock when they're wounded inVietnam. That's how it originally started to
be used. And it's used asa surgical anesthetic to reduce pain and to
help you don't get into hot tubswhen you have an anesthetic. Don't get
(19:22):
into hot tubs with anything that sedatesyou or anything that's an anesthetic. And
he had, from what we cantell, probably some other low levels of
other medicines he was taking that werealso slightly sedating on board. And so
you know, people can pass outin hot tubs without any drugs on board,
just by getting too hot. Allof a sudden, you add a
sedative, hypnotic medication or something thatis slightly anesthetic in there, and you
(19:44):
got Whitney Houston, and you havea real problem. And I think that's
why we don't recommend in general,using any kind of sedative orhypnotic drug when
you're in a hot tub, includingalcohol, but also to have somebody with
you if you're taking any of thosemedicines and you happen to go into an
environment like that where you could passout a sauna, a hot tub.
You know, most drownings unfortunately occurin three feet of water, right,
(20:07):
So we really need to be Thisis just a warning call, I think
to us to just be more carefuland mindful about what we're putting into our
bodies when we're going into these seeminglybenign situation. Yeah, I mentioned Whitney
Houston. I remember interviewing a doctorafter her tragic death, and he looked
at the toxicology report and said,there was a number of not only sedatives,
but respiratory depressants. And so evenif you you know, for an
(20:30):
average person, if we happen toslide underwater, we have like an effect
where we all you know, jerkand open up our mouths. And she
wouldn't have had the right that thattool available under those medications. So heartbreaking
and One of the common side effectsof ketamine that you know, we always
educate people on when they're using itunder supervision is that ketamine, because of
the nature of its dissociate and anaesthetic properties, it makes it a little
(20:53):
hard to move at peak doses.And that's why that's why people you know,
we we make sure people are supervisedwhen they're using it. But that's
also why it works great for surgery, So we want we always try to
make sure that people understand you maynot be able to take care of yourself
for the next hour, so weneed to be extra careful that during that
(21:14):
hour you're supervised, you're not doinganything potentially dangerous. And unfortunately Matthew Perry
didn't have that kind of supervision,and so you know, ketamine was unlikely
to be the cause of death,but the misuse of it might and likely
contributed to and probably with some ofthe other medications. Exactly, it's a
combo. Yeah, May he restin peace. Now. I want to
(21:36):
talk a little bit about vibrations andour body. You know, one of
the things I teach in my healthpsychology class is it's interesting that while religion
happens to be in decline, inour country, in Western cultures, that
religiosity is highly correlated with better healthand longer life. Well partly because there
isn't a religion who preaches sex,drugs and rock and roll, so they
(21:59):
kind of clean living'. But alsothe community benefits all kinds of things.
But there's also this chanting every religionin the world, whether you're going or
Hail Mary, full of grazo Lordis with the You've got some kind of
repetitive sound that makes vibrations in yourbody. How does this relax somebody?
(22:19):
So it's a great question, andI think you know religion. There's three
important things we can take away fromreligion. You mentioned all three of them
just now, right. So oneof them is community, right. Part
of why religion is so beneficials becauseit helps bring us together. Number two,
it gives us something to believe in. It's greater than ourselves, hope,
right. And we know from studiesnow of people who have had terminal
(22:41):
illnesses that if you believe in anythingbigger than yourself, your chances of survival
and your experience of end of lifeis better quality of life wise. And
number three is the chanting and thevibrations and the singing, and all of
that comes together around what happens inour nervous system, which is it helps
(23:02):
us feel safe. Right, Andthis is going back to one of my
favorite topics and I think yours too, which is how we evolved as human
beings and animals is we evolve tokeep each other and ourselves safe as a
priority. So if we feel threatenedin our environment, our bodies don't function
properly because they take all of ouravailable blood and resources and send it to
(23:22):
heart, lungs, skeletal muscles,motor cortex, fear center to get us
out of that threatening situation, toget to safety. And once we're in
safety, all of a sudden,we take all that blood and we send
it back to reproduction, digestion,immunity, metabolism at sleep, rest,
and recovery, empathy, right,all the stuff that we want to have
active when we're not running from alion. So training our bodies over time
(23:45):
with these three things. Belief,community, safety from other people around us
that we can trust and feel comfortablearound. And vibration all help, whether
you're singing it or whether you're feelingit through something like apollo or a hug
or a purring cat all forms ofthe healing vibration. They all help to
amplify safety pathways in the brain andbody, which reduces stress and anxiety.
(24:07):
Now you mentioned the word Apollo.You have a company called Apollo that's got
a vibration device that someone can wearlike on their wrists, their opera arm,
and what does it do. Sowe developed the apollotechnology actually out of
my research into how psychedelic medicines workand when I was being when I was
training in psychedelic assisted therapy in overthe last ten years, I was always
(24:29):
interested, why do these medicines plustherapy with just a few doses. We're
not talking daily dosing. We're talking, you know, three to twelve doses
over twenty weeks, right, Soit's very few doses, and then there's
a break and people get better inthe short term, and then they stay
better long term, even if they'venever responded to any other treatments. So
to put it very clearly, someof the evidence that's coming out now around
(24:53):
MDMA assisted therapy, which is onthe FDA's desk for clearance right now,
and with ketamine for depression, whichis one of the only anti suicidal medications
we've ever discovered incredible, right wow, and psilocybin for depression, which is
having similar benefits. These are showingin our trials some of the greatest results
in terms of outcomes that we've everseen in the history of psychiatry. But
they also require you to take apsychedelic drug, which is not for everyone,
(25:17):
and that requires therapists to be there. I'm a control freak, I'm
afraid of drugs, right, andlots of people are and lots of people
by did I take that little vibratorout of your hand chest? Well,
lots of people aren't good candidates fordrugs too, like many children, right,
and elderly folks. And so wethought, well, if we can
figure out the core pathways that arebeing activated by the psychedelic therapy, maybe
we can develop technology that activates thosepathways on the go for us and helps
(25:41):
boost safety on the go. Andso we figured out in the University of
Pittsburgh Department of Psychiatry that we coulddeliver soothing vibrations to the body that kind
of feel like if you're familiar withholding a purring cat or getting a hug,
and that feeling that feeling is somethingwe can induce for ourselves with breathing,
and Apollo works by sending these soothingvibrations to the body that induce that
(26:02):
safe, natural, meditative breathing stateon the go. And so what is
it? You wear it for howlong? And it's I mean, I'm
holding it. It's a gentle vibrationfeeling. But how does it actually work?
So it works by you can wearit as long as you want.
It works anywhere in your body.It's a pod. You can clip it
onto your body. You can wearit through clothing or overclothing. You can
(26:22):
wear it on a strap. Mostpeople wear it on their chest or ankle
or wrist, and you can wearit as long as you want. It's
basically music that you can't hear thatyour body is sensitive to that calms the
body and helps you to just feelsafe, in control, clear and focused.
You're listening to doctor Wendy Walsh ondemand from KFI Am six forty.
(26:44):
My guest doctor Dave Raebin, amedical doctor, a psychiatrist, a neuroscientist,
PhD. More letters after his namethan you could ever imagine, basically
someone you should trust. Earlier,you were telling us that you have this
device called Apollo. I should say, where do people get this Apollo thing?
They can go online and do Apollodot apolloneuro dot com, oh,
Apollo neuro or wearable hugs dot com. Wearable hugs isn't that cute? Dot
(27:10):
com? And this is vibrating thingyou can wear around It puts you in
this state of relaxation, so you'renot in a stress anxiety fear state.
My question is this, didn't mothernature design some anxiety for a darn good
reason? And if we walk aroundtwo relaxed all the time, maybe we're
not making good decisions. That's absolutelytrue. And this is actually one of
the things that's most commonly not taughtcorrectly is that we did evolve that system
(27:36):
for a reason. But the evolutionarybiology field, and Eric Handell, who's
also a famous psychiatrist and neuroscientist whowon the Nobel Prize in two thousand,
basically won it for discovering that thereare only certain things we're supposed to have
our fear center fight or flight systemturn on for. Oh, and those
are actual survival threats running from alion, running from a lion, or
(27:59):
por lack of food, lack ofwater, lack of air, and lack
of safe shelter. That's it.But all the interpersonal problems, don't,
They all boil down to I'll beleft alone in the jungle to die if
they all abandon me. And that'san assumption that we make that often increases
our chances of being left alone becausethen we act from a point of insecurity
(28:22):
rather than strength. And so whenwe act from insecurity, what do we
do? We make more selfish decisions? Right? Wow. So that's called
in psychology, it's called misappropriation ofthreat, which simply put, is just
interpreting things as threatening when they're actuallynot right. And so that's what all
these meditations, soothing touch, soothingmusic, psychology, and psychotherapy techniques have
all focused on, is how dowe teach people to understand the skills and
(28:48):
practice the skills of reminding ourselves thatwe're not under actual threat when we're not
under actual threat, so that wecan allow our recovery system to do its
thing and keep us feeling good unlesswe're actually running from a lion. Because
when we're actually running from a lion, our bodies don't allow us to do
anything else. We are in thatmode and we have to get out of
there before we can do anything else. And in today's time, we're not
(29:11):
running from lions. We were runningfrom emails exactly, traffic, mud slides,
whatever it may be. You know, over Christmas, I was at
a Christmas party and I met apsychotherapist from Russia, and I said,
what's the difference between what are thebig issues in Russia compared to here?
You know, I love to findout And she said, well, first
of all, Russians think it's crazythat Americans always want to get rid of
(29:33):
their anxiety. Russians are like,we need to be worried, we have
anxiety, we don't want to getrid of it. About how fascinating anyway,
let's talk about relationships, love andhow this Apollo device can even help
your relationships. So one of thebiggest challenges that we face in feeling afraid
(29:56):
or feeling stressed is thinking, likeyou alluded to earlier, that we might
not be loved or we might notbe accepted by our colleagues, our friends,
our peers, our families, andthat can make us feel really unpleasant
and uncomfortable because we all as humanswant to be loved, We want to
be accepted. We want to beconnected to our community. It's fundamentally important,
(30:19):
critical for our healthy, happy survival, and for joy in our lives.
And we have huge parts of ourbrains that evolved, like the insolent
cortex, that are solely responsible forempathy and connecting with other human beings,
and we need to use those parts. So tools like Apollo we develop to
try to help retrain us to rememberhow to use those parts of our brains
(30:41):
again through our sense of touch.And what's really interesting is that the two
states that are most vulnerable and thereforescary for us when we when we're feeling
stressed out are sleep because sleep iswhen we're completely physically defenseless. So we
have to feel safe to get intodeep and rem sleep states, which is
(31:02):
where where we get all our physicaland emotional mental recovery. And then sexual
and intimacy in relationships because oh yeah, you've got to be relaxed. You've
got to be relaxed, and theroom's got to be clean, Julio,
if you're listening, we need toclean their bedroom. Okay, they'll work
better, yeah, because you're reallylike allowing yourself to completely open up and
connect with another human being, andthat's vulnerable. And especially if you're a
(31:26):
woman, you're you're often uh,you know, and you're and you're interacting
and dating men. Right, menhave more physical prowess, more strength,
ment. There's a huge history ofviolence against women from men. We can't
deny it, right, That's justpart of our unfortunate and unfortunate part of
our society, and that collective traumaexists. And so a lot of the
(31:48):
tools we use help around sex andintimacy and love and connection are really about
just helping women and men feel safein their own bodies. And over the
last few years we figure out away to do that for women for intimacy
using Apollo, which is really exciting. So Apollo has a separate setting,
like a vibe setting that increases intimacyfor women. It does what's it called.
(32:08):
It's called the love vibe of course, and anybody who has the Apollo
app and the Smart Vibes sub brainof Apollo, which is where we the
Apollo as a device comes with eighteight vibes that you can select from which
allow you to access different states ofanything from high energy and focus and socializing
(32:30):
to calm relaxation meditation. This isa special vibe that we released to all
of the subscription users that are membersof Smart Vibes, which allows people to
access the more advanced and interesting statesthat we've discovered over the years, and
one of them is intimacy for womenand helping women feel safe enough in their
own bodies to allow themselves to reallyconnect with their partners physically, mentally,
(32:52):
emotionally. So would it be possiblewe can give one away to a listener?
Of course, all right, listento it. Verdie next week.
Next week when I get one ofmy hot little hands, Cayla's going to
be taking your calls, We're goingto open up the phone lines and you
can call in and win an Apollodevice that has the Love Vibe on it.
(33:13):
It is always a pleasure to meetsomeone of your caliber, your expertise,
and you're well spoken, doctor Rabin. Now where can people find out
more about you? Please come findme on my website at Apollo dot clinic
or doctor Dave dot io, andcome find me on socials. I love
to hear from you and hear yourthoughts. It's at doctor David Rabin on
(33:34):
Instagram and Twitter. You got doctorDave dot Io. Look at that,
that's a URL man. You've beenlistening to Doctor Wendy Walsh. You can
always hear us live on KFI AMsix forty from seven to nine pm on
Sunday and anytime on demand on theiHeartRadio app
Dr. Wendy Walsh on Demand News
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