May 6, 2021 • 45 mins
Ariel and Jonathan talk about the merits of fantasy and science fiction. They also dive into what makes a good 'bad movie." Oh, and He-Man goes head to head with the Bride from Kill Bill.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
The Large Nerdron Collider Podcast is a production of I
Heart Radio. Hey everybody, Welcome to The Large Nerdron Collider Podcast,
the podcast that's all about the geeky things happening in
the world around us and how very excited we are
(00:28):
about them. I am arial casting and with me as
always is my brilliant friend and co host Jonathan Strickland
Hay Ariel. Yes, Jonathan, I've got a question for you.
Do you have a movie or maybe a TV show
(00:51):
that you really like that you have heard other people
describe as bad? Yes, Van Helsing, you genuinely liked the
film Van Helsing. Yes, I genuinely like Van Helsing. Well,
it was Hugh Jackman in that Yes, he was. I
have never seen it. I remember the previews. He was
(01:14):
Gabriel Van Helsing and Kate Beckinsale was the love interest,
and then Regina Dracula Son Yes, yes, and we had
Richard Roxborough and David went hum you know it was
it was Dracula fighting Batman comedy and it's what I
(01:36):
wanted and it's what I got, And a lot of
people will say it wasn't the movie they wanted, kind
of like a lot of people aren't super big fans
of I guess it's not recent. Now do you give
extraordinary gentlemen with Sean Connery? Yes, thank you Sean Connery.
But you know, if you go in with lowered expectations,
(01:56):
then you can be pleasantly surprised. I actually owned Van Helsing.
Of course you do Dylan Dog Dead of Night, which
is way worse but equally fun. Okay, continue on, Well
would you like would you would you like to turn
the tables on me? Or yes I would? I was sorry.
I thought I had already asked you. I was so
(02:17):
excited about cheesy Dracula hunting. What is your favorite bad
movie or movie that you think is great that everybody
else does not? Well, this one, this one's kind of
unfair because it's throwing my wife under the bus. But
my wife once described Big Trouble in Little China as
a good bad movie, and I took umbradge at that
(02:40):
because I think of it as a fantastic, great movie.
There is no bad when it comes to Big Trouble
in Little China. You see, I didn't watch that until
later on in in my life, as in the last
ten years, so I would have to agree with your wife.
For me, it is a good bad movie. It might
(03:03):
have been great for its time, but because of the
era in which I watched it, see, I think of
it as a schlocky movie, but not a bad movie.
And and the reason why I asked this question, dear listeners,
is that in our second segment today, we'll be taking
more of a dive into what makes a good bad
(03:25):
movie versus a bad good movie, as in like a
bad big budget film or just a mediocre mess right, Like,
what what are the qualities that makes something special where
it is entertaining. Even if you could objectively say this
is bad, you cannot objectively say this is bad about
(03:45):
Big Trouble Little China, because that movie is freaking awesome.
And I swear if we can have a cinematic universe,
were Big Trouble and Little China and The Last Dragon
could coexist along with buck Rubanza, it would be the
best movie ever made. I am all I mean, I'm
(04:06):
all about that. I like all of those movies. I
would say Buckery Bonsai is probably the lowest on the
list of those three. For me, I can understand that
because I love that movie. John Lithgal makes that movie.
But we're getting off track. That movie has pacing issues, right, Like,
the last time I watched Buck Rubans, I was like, wow,
(04:26):
I forgot how many long slow segments of this movie
there are where like you're just waiting for something else
to happen, and if you're not like really engaged, you're
gonna nod off. Um. But whenever John Lithgal is on
the screen, he's phenomenal. Who's a laugh And now Monkey
(04:47):
Boy is still one of my favorite movie quotes of
all time. But let's get on to our first segment.
What is this first segment called Ariel? Well, this first
segment is called get to Know Jonathan. We are taking
a break from the news this week. Uh, and we're
going to get to know our beloved friend Jonathan here.
Hey that's me, I'm Jonathan. Yes, my life's an open book.
(05:09):
What do you want to know? Okay, So if your
life's an open book, let's start with some a real easy,
like a slow ball, like, what is your favorite book? Uh?
So my favorite book would very likely I think I'd
have to answer the hobbit. Um. I've got a lot
of books that I absolutely adore. Good Omens by Terry Pratchett,
(05:32):
and Neil Gaiman is one of my favorites. Hitchhiker's Guide
to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams another one. But The
Hobbit by Tolkien was probably the book that really got
me into the fantasy genre so much so that I
have a Lord the Lord of the Rings inspired tattoo
(05:53):
on my left arm, So I'm gonna go with that.
And and I like The Hobbit for what it is.
I think of it as a fairy tale. Uh. It's
why I didn't love the trilogy of movies based on
The Hobbit, because I felt like it was trying to
turn the Hobbit into something that it's not. It was
trying to go from fairy tale to epic fantasy to
(06:15):
more closely match what we saw with Lord of the Rings.
But that's why it didn't work for me, because that's
not what the book is. I would have to agree.
Is The Hobbit and and Lord of the Rings something
you read as a child or is it something that
you discovered as more of an adult. So The Hobbit
was the first long book I could long quote unquote
(06:36):
book I can remember reading as a kid. I essentially
went from there's a monster at the end of this
book with Grover straight to the Hobbit. There's actually a
crayon picture I drew when I was four that I
have somewhere in this house. It's in a frame that
says Gallum in the Ring, drawn by Jonathan aged four.
So I yeah, I read The Hobbit early, early, early on.
(06:57):
I remember, or I seem to remember, And I could
be wrong about this because memory is a tricky thing.
That my parents told me I could watch the cartoon
of the Hobbit if I read the book first, and
so I did. Um, And so I read it as
a very young child. I tried reading Lord of the
Rings when I was in middle school or high school,
(07:17):
and I remember I tried two times, and I stopped
midway through the two Towers, essentially at the siege at
Helm's Deep, and I could not get past it. Like
I just got to a point where I put the
book down and I just never came back to pick
it back up. And by the time I finally wanted
to try it again, I had forgotten everything. So I
had to start back over. Um. So it was only
(07:39):
on my third time reading The Lord of the Rings
that I actually got all the way through. I have
since reread that several times, and I've read the Samarillian
as well. So Two Towers is definitely the most difficult
of the books to get through. I would say, so,
are you are you more of a fantasy guy or
sci fi guy? You said, since you have such a
love for Lord of the Rings. Yeah, I would say
(08:01):
that I'm probably more fantasy than science fiction throughout most
of my life. I would say that I've leaned harder
into science fiction over the last maybe five or six years,
but definitely when I was growing up, my interest was
more in fantasy Tolkien, Lloyd Alexander, Pierce, Anthony, although that
(08:24):
more than a little problematic in retrospect. I didn't realize
it at the time, but as an adult I definitely
see it. Uh, Robert Asprin, these are all authors that
I read, Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman um, so I
was really into that. And then it's been more in
recent years I've been sort of gravitating more towards science
fiction than fantasy, largely because I think, uh, there are
(08:47):
too many fantasy authors who are not good, and they
fall into the same sort of tropes where you feel
like everyone is just kind of a a copy of
a copy of a copy of Tolkien, so you know,
they don't really stand out so well. Um, I will
say that there was one point where I was kind
of drafting out an idea for a book of my own,
(09:09):
and that is a book that would be in the
fantasy genre. If I ever write it, it'll be a
fantasy book. I s par you do, because I would
love to read it. So you mentioned reading fantasy is
a very very young child, and I know your dad
is an author, and you went to a lot of
conventions because of that cross section of your life. What
(09:30):
is the earliest convention you can remember? Oh, I remember, Okay,
my memory is terrible as far as figuring out which
bits are earliest, But I went to there was a
convention that predated dragon Con called the Atlanta Fantasy Fair,
and it was sort of the big science fiction fantasy
convention in Atlanta before dragon Con became a thing. And
(09:52):
I remember going to that and their costume contest was
one of the pivotal events of the entire convention. And
my mom loved making costumes for me and my sister,
and so we were entered into the costume contest pretty
much every single year, and I think the very first
costume I ever wore to one of those, and I
won the children's category was Et the Extraterrestrial. I was
(10:17):
the little squat et Uh. I look like a giant
plush et doll and um and uh and I won that.
My sister one best of show for the entire masquerade.
She was uh the female Guilfling from the Dark Crystal
uh Kira. I think I can't remember her name, but
(10:37):
she had a little fizz gig puppet on her hand. Um.
So that's the earliest I remember. But we also would
go to like Star Trek conventions, and there was another
smaller Atlantic co mintion called Phoenix con we would go to.
So I went to a lot of these and it
was really cool experience, like as one of those things
where to me it was just normal because that's how
I grew up. But again as an adult, I can
(10:59):
look back on that and say like, wow, that was
a really special time. That sounds like a really special time,
and it's great to have those kind of memories. So
was it a transition of going to the conventions? Is
that how you got into the Georgia Renaissance Festival. Because
we've talked about we both worked at Georgia Renaissance Festival.
Is that you went to the conventions, you went to
the Red Fest, you said, hey, I want to do this,
(11:19):
or how did you get involved there? So I first
went to the Renaissance Festival when I was a kid. Now,
Ariel and I worked at the Renaissance Festival where it's
at its current location, but before that, it was in
a slightly smaller site that was just down the road
from where it is now. This doesn't mean anything to
anyone who's note in Georgia, but but it was a
(11:40):
smaller site. It was in like this little wooded area,
and I remember going and thinking it was fantastic. We
saw stage shows. I remember Zilch, the Tory Stellar, and
I remember the mud show players and all these sorts
of fun characters, and I thought it was really enchanting.
But that was about it. And then I was at
Dragon Con and I was in a production of a
(12:02):
show called Romeo and Ethel the Pirates Daughter. And this
was the version of it before you did it, Ariel,
Because you were in one of those two, right, you
were in the second one. I was. I was in
the reiteration of it. Yes, so this was in the
original one where I was playing a character named Byron
all the sailors in our Our Little Story, which was
(12:22):
a one off joke in Shakespeare in Love, and the
actress who was playing the spirit arial Uh was Val
and Val would go on she was also working at
the Renisance Festival, and she would go on to become
an entertainment director there. But she told me while we
(12:42):
were in rehearsals for this show about the auditions for
the Renaissance Festival. And back then the Renaissance Festival had
a fall season in a spring season, so I auditioned
for the fall season, and um, I was told that
I was one of just a few people who had
ever auditioned, and immediately got high fired. I didn't have
to do a callback or anything. They hired me on
(13:02):
the spot, and they gave me the choice of playing
either the town doctor or the town mayor, and I
thought mayor outranks doctor, so I picked him, and that
that began my career at the Georgia Renaissance Festival. And
that was, oh golly, that seems forever ago. Your mayor,
by the way, was hilarious, part of the reason I
(13:24):
joined the Renaissance Festival. So the other thing I want
to ask you about is horror movies. You love horror?
I uh, And I guess it harkens back to when
you said the first book you remember reading as a
monster at the end of this book, because I guess
it would be a very infantile child introduction to horror,
even though it's got a happy ending. So when did
(13:47):
you decide that you liked horror? What is your favorite
bad horror movie? And what is your favorite good horror? Oh? Man,
those are some good questions. So I think I got
into horror when I was probably probably around twelve or thirteen,
which is about I think the average age for most
horror fans. Um. I just was one of those things where,
(14:10):
for one thing, it seemed like it was forbidden, right
because horror movies were the types of things that would
come on late, you know, after your bedtime normally, So
there was that sort of allure that this is something
outside of what you're supposed to experience. But I also
just found it fascinating. And I mean as a kid,
I remember there were certain movies that as an adult,
(14:31):
they aren't scary to me at all, but as a kid,
that really messed me up. Um. But if we're talking
about my favorite bad horror movie and my favorite good
horror movie, my favorite bad horror movie, ah, this is
a hard one. Uh. I'm gonna say Dr. Giggles, which
I think I've only seen one time, but I remember
(14:53):
loving how truly terrible a horror movie it is. It
was a slasher film, And I remember that I had
uh buttons that were promotional buttons at these science fiction conventions.
One of the things that you used to be able
to get where all these freebees that movie movie companies
would put out to promote upcoming films. And I had
(15:13):
a huge collection of buttons from various movies. And I
remember there were two for Dr Giggles where it said
the doctor is in and then written next to it
was sane, So Insane, and the other ones the doctor
is out and the written next to it was of
his mind and m Dr Giggles is a really dumb
slasher horror film that I loved. As for good horror movies,
(15:36):
there are so many, But if I have to pick one,
like a truly phenomenal horror movie, it's the Witch or
The the Vich if you prefer that one is spectacular.
It is an incredible film as as someone who also
loves Shakespeare. It has a a Shakespearean kind of of
(15:58):
gravitas and the lang, which helps a lot with that
because it's very a period realistic language, and it is
just a phenomenal film. And it stars uh the the
Queen's Gamba actress, who was also Yeah, she's she's amazing minute.
She's so young and so good, and she makes me
(16:20):
so mad because she's so good. Yeah, I can't feel that.
Antonia Taylor Joy, Yes, I should know her name by now.
She is, she's she's killing it. She was also recently
in a bad horror movie, The New Mutants. Yes, I
hear that she was giving a really terrible accent in
that film. You know, I haven't watched it. Maybe maybe
(16:42):
i'll watch it when I'm really bored on demand one day.
So do you tend towards slasher films over suspense or
actually I prefer supernatural horror that involves lots of tension.
I actually think those are much better. Like. Another great
film that I love is The Changeling, which was a
nineteen eight d film with George C. Scott or The
(17:03):
Exorcist three, which is not at all really related. I
mean it is somewhat related to the first Exorcist movie,
not at all related to Exorcist too. Um. Both of
those are incredible at at cranking up tension, but they're
not They both kind of go off the rails towards
the very end of the movie, which is unfortunate. But
(17:23):
from most of the film they're just really good at
making you feel very tense and wondering is this tension
ever going to be relieved? And I love movies like
that that can have you feel that sort of thing.
To me, a slasher film is just dumb fun Most
of the time. In a slasher film, what you're left
wondering is in what order are your protagonists going to die?
(17:43):
And how are they going to do it? Yeah, i'd
agree with that. I just watched Screen for the first
time this year, and that that was what I spent
the entire movie asking, so well, that one, That one
is also a deconstruction of the slasher genre, right like
that was. Scream was a commentary on slasher films and
sort of almost a parody of them, and that was
(18:08):
what I found so entertaining about Scream was that it
was being very smart about how dumb slasher films are.
So would you say that was a good movie, a
good bad movie, or a bad good scream? Scream was
good good? Yeah. No, the first Scream is the first
Scream is a genuinely good movie. The sequels less. So
(18:29):
got you. Well, thank you for letting me interview you
and letting all of our listeners learn a little bit
more about you and the geek that you are. We're
going to take a quick break, and then when we
come back, we're going to talk about some movies that
are good bad or bad good? Okay, Ariel, can you
(18:56):
define for me what it means to you for a
movie to be a good bad movie? What does that
mean to you? I don't know, So there's so many
different definitions of that. So I guess when you initially
say a good bad movie, that is a movie that
is so bad that it is enjoyable to watch. Usually,
to me, those are movies that people tried really hard
to make a good movie and it just failed. But
(19:20):
all of that passion and all of that drive to
deliver entertainment is still there. I will say there are
a couple of movies to me that we're intentionally written
poorly or set satirically, that are also quite fun fun
to watch. But that's much harder to pull off. And
that's when you veer into a whether it's a good
bad movie or a bad good movie. Because if they're
(19:43):
trying to make a bad movie good and it fails,
is this whole conundrum. What about you? What is a
What is a good bad movie? To you? I think
I pretty much agree with you. I think pretty much
I'm qualifying this a lot. I agree with you. I
think I think a good bad movie is a movie
that fails, on typically a spectacular level, to deliver what
(20:09):
they set out to do. But it wasn't intentional like
it it was due to the limitations of the filmmakers.
It might be due to the limitations of their equipment
or their expertise with using the equipment. It might be
due to the limitations of their acting ability of the cast, um,
(20:29):
it might be all. It might be a collection of
these factors. It might be terrible editing where you're watching
the movie and you're constantly asking what's going on because
the sequence doesn't seem to be following like you're not
able to logically go from scene to scene to scene.
These are all things to me that make a good
bad movie where you can have fun watching it, and
(20:52):
it's not even necessarily mean spirited. It's just it's just
just the amazement of how bad it is. I think
of THEO Whom when I finally saw because Ariel, you
saw the Room a whole bunch of times before I
ever saw it. I did. I have matching t shirts
with a few of my friends that are the Golden
gate Bridge. When we line up, we make the Golden
(21:12):
gate Bridge says go go go across the back because
I saw it in theaters with a bunch of people, uh,
sort of as an interactive experience, similar to going to
see Rocky Horror Picture show. Yeah yeah and see. To me,
like that's that. That is the epitome of a good
bad movie, because that movie is, by any objective standard,
a bad movie. Characters have terrible motivation, there's horrible dialogue.
(21:37):
I mean, the the actual technical expertise of the film
crew seems to be fine, because it's not like the
camera angles are weird or that the sound is bad.
But a couple of times the sound is not great. Yeah,
and and there are ridiculous sequences shot on a sound
stage that could have just as easily been shot on location. Uh, which,
(21:58):
really you find out the reason of that is because Tommyzzoh,
the filmmaker, wanted his movie to be a quote unquote
real movie, and real movies were shot on sound stages,
not in the world. And uh, you know, it's just
it's it's such a weird film that I was just
constantly saying to the screen out loud, what and uh,
(22:22):
much to the amusement of the three other people I
was with, all of whom had seen the film before.
Um and and but that as a genuine, good, bad film.
Another one I would argue that a lot of people
will think of as trolls to Trolls Too is ridiculously awful.
Like it is hard to put into words how bad
(22:42):
Trolls Too is, but it's wildly entertaining. I will admit
I've only seen bits and pieces of troll To where
the person is eating corn. Yes, I believe I should
say troll to. I said trolls to, not like the characters,
not like the little cartoon. I mean troll To, not
the one with the bacary Brothers in right, not not
(23:03):
Trolls World Tour, although the macaroy brothers were introll too,
that would be pretty phenomenal. Yeah, yeah, No, I couldn't
tell you what the eating corn pertained to. But I
think the reason that I made it through the room
as many times as I did and I didn't make
it through Troll too, is because I watched the room
with a group of people who could commiserate in the
(23:24):
badness with me. I feel like that is integral when
you're watching either a movie that is intentionally bad and
well done, or a movie that was meant to be
well done and it's just really really bad. That's that's
the whole premise behind Mystery Science Theater three thousand. When
I when I saw Troll two, I thought for the
first time, Uh, it was for another show called Podcast
(23:47):
Without Pretense, where we had all decided that we were
going to watch terrible movies on Netflix and see how
far we could get into them without having any distractions,
because all of us realized that we had all gotten
into the habit of having something on but also like
looking at our phones or on a computer or something,
so you're not really paying attention, and we said, let's
(24:08):
try and dedicate our full focus to things that do
not deserve it and see see how far we can get.
And so we picked troll Too. I think that might
have even been our first movie that we ever picked.
And I started it up, thinking, you know, I had
never seen it before the movie starts and I'm like, oh,
you know what, I have seen some of this before,
but I think it's only like the first five minutes.
(24:30):
First five minutes goes by. Get into the second five minutes,
I'm like, no, I've seen this too. And I kept
waiting for the moment where I could say, oh, that's
where I left off until the movie ended and I
realized I had actually already seen the thing all the
way through, but had wiped it from my mind. Wow. Wow,
that's intense. Now do you like, I know you like
(24:55):
Mystery Science Theater three thousand, you like the room controlled
to What about movies that are intentionally bad like Shark
Nado or The FP or I'm gonna say Veloci pastor.
I actually don't know whether that one was just bad
or super low budget. I'm guessing the former. So I
think you hit upon it when you were describing good
(25:16):
bad movies where you talked about if you are intentionally
making something bad but with the goal of being entertaining,
that is way harder, I think than making something that's
good and entertaining. I think it's actually easier to make
a good entertaining thing than a bad entertaining thing, because
you're more likely to make something that either doesn't come
(25:39):
across as genuine. So you're like, well, yeah, we could
all get in front of the camera and do a
really crappy job, but that doesn't make it good. That
doesn't make it entertaining. Um, you know, you you have
to be able to craft that in a way that
makes it good. I think of certain things like the
play Noises Off right. Noises Off as a play within
(26:03):
a play, and there is a section where the actors
in that play within a play are actively trying to
sabotage one another while a performance is going So things
are going wrong, but they have to go wrong in
exactly the right way, and that's where the comedy is.
And if anyone messes up, if they mess up messing up,
(26:24):
the jokes don't work. So it's like it's like the
most well timed magic trick, really and there are other
examples of this, the Play That Goes Wrong or the
Goes Wrong show, those are based on that same premise.
Sometimes it works, like I would say that there are
certain bad things that were made to be bad that
(26:47):
work and they are entertaining, and there are others that
it just feels so lazy and so designed by committee
that I actually find it distracting and distress full, Like
Shark Nado is a great example. I think the Shark
Nado films in general are so lazy and sloppy and
(27:08):
done with a complete lack of respect for the audience
that it comes through as being just a cheap um
cash grab. And they're not like they're bad, and they're
laughably bad in the sense that the stuff that's happening
doesn't make any logical sense. But you realize that that
was something that was decided upon. It didn't just happen
(27:31):
because the limitations of the filmmaking process. It happened because
someone decided, Hey, let's do it this way, because won't
that be funny at how bad it is? And when
it's done that way, it just doesn't The magic's gone. Yeah,
I could agree with you there. I I think for
it goes back to the passion thing again. If you're
(27:51):
making a movie to be laughably bad just to hey,
people like bad movies, let's make a bad movie, then
it doesn't have that extra little something I going back
to the Room. I watched The Disaster Artist, which is
a movie about the making of the Room with James Franco,
and it had this really you came out of that
(28:11):
movie going, man, this was a train wreck, but the
people really tried, And so at the same time that
I'm laughing at it, I almost feel bad because of
how much heart the person put into it. So I
feel a little conflicted with the bad movies. But it's
it's always the ones like that that become cult classics
that I'm most happy for as well, because they're able
(28:34):
to find joy and and acceptance in this thing that
they poured their heart into. And I just don't get
the same heart in shark Nado. Yeah. Yeah, well and
and and like you said, like it is, I mean
it's it is frustrating for an artist for their work
to be uh enjoyed in a way they had not anticipated, right, like,
(28:57):
especially especially in a way where people are making fun
of it or laughing at it. When you were trying
to make something serious that I'm sure is a big
blow to an artist's ego. However, there's another potential outcome
that's even worse, which is where you get the mediocre
film where there's nothing entertaining about it at all, where
(29:20):
it's not well made, but it's also not entertaining, and
you just feel like you've wasted your time and your
board to tears and you've you've got nothing really substantive
to say about it. That's the worst outcome, right, So
there are outcomes that where you walk away and you're like,
I can't believe I spent my time seeing that there
(29:42):
was a There was a Genclaude van Damn film. It
was one of those martial arts tournament style films, and
I can't even remember the title of it now, but
I remember I got a free pass to go and
see it when I was in college in Athens, Georgia.
So I go with a friend of mine. We go
and we get to see it for free, and at
the end of the movie, we sat there and thought,
(30:04):
I almost want to ask for my money back, except
I didn't pay for anything to see this film. You know.
I felt that way about some films too. I felt
that way about Sucker Punch, and it's highly contested among
my friends, But that movie I just walked out of
saying no, not for me. Yeah, it was close to
Southland's tale about bad for Me. I've got a lot
of friends who feel the same way about both of
(30:25):
those movies, so that they also share your opinion, is
what I mean. I have not seen either of those.
We have a few on our list we didn't really cover,
and we're going to conclude this discussion, but we just
wanted to mention, like some of the ones will probably
talk about in a subsequent episode where we talk about
stuff like nostalgia, because some of these movies that are
the good bad or bad good movies are also trying
(30:48):
to tap into nostalgia as a means of connecting with
the audience. So I would argue the FP falls into
that category. But I thought the FP was genuinely entertaining,
just really really strange. I thought it was more strange
than bad. But it did go super schlocky, like schlocky bad,
I guess, and I believe purposefully so. Yes, Turbo Kid
(31:11):
the same way Turbo Kid was over the top schlocky. Uh,
and really hitting on the nostalgia as well. But but
there also seemed to be a genuine sincerity two the
narrative under the story, right, Like I get that with
the FP as well. Like in both of those, you
look at it and you think this is something that
(31:34):
someone wanted to make as opposed to I pitched this
idea in a pitch meeting where we were just throwing
spaghetti against the wall and this one strand happened a stick,
and now I have to make it. That's the way
I feel about the Asylum movies is the Asylum movies
to me, I feel like they were made in a quick,
cash grab, opportunistic way. Uh And and that's bared out
(31:56):
I think a lot by the fact that most of
the Asylum films are are cheap knockoffs of big budget movies. Yeah,
you know, Kung Fury is another one that that banks
on your nostalgia but is purposefully bad. And I know
many friends would say it Mrs the Mark. For me,
I think my my favorite bad movies are things like
(32:18):
Hudson Hawk or Howard the Duck because they do play
on that there schlocky. They play on my nostalgia factor
and they're just fun. It seems like everybody had fun
making them. Yeah, I don't know how far I can
go with you on Howard the Duck. That movie. That
movie I hated since And that movie came out when
I was a kid, and I've hated it on my
(32:39):
entire life. Um, but Hudson Hogg. I saw that film
long after there was the whole like hoopla about it
being the worst movie of all time. You know, whenever
a movie comes out that doesn't meet people's expectations, it
immediately gets branded as the worst of all time, right,
and Hudson Hawk had been listen as one of those
contenders for the worst movie of all time. When I
(33:01):
finally saw it, I thought, this is what people were saying. Listen,
I have seen way worse than this, And and uh like,
Hudson Hawk at times is genuinely entertaining. There are segments
of Hudson Hawk that are either cringe worthy or just
like you just want to turn it off. But it's
(33:23):
nowhere near the worst movie of all time, and it
does manage to be quite entertaining through much of it.
So it goes It goes back to my Van Helsing
statement of if you go in with lowered expectations, You're
going to be pleasantly surprised. Yes, And on that note,
please lower your expectations. After this break, we'll be coming
back with a mash up. Okay, it's mash up time.
(34:01):
What to properties are we taking to make something new
out of? Well, we are taking Masters of the Universe,
which is a he Man movie, not the same exactly
as the cartoon, but still and kill Bill excellent. Do
you want to go first or do you want me
to go first? I? Well, do we want to explain
(34:22):
what kill Bill is? If anybody doesn't know, I'll take
I'll take one. Which one do you want to take?
I'll be glad to take the other one. I'll take
Masters of the Universe. Okay, go for it. Okay. So
Masters of the Universe is this seven movie based on
he Man. It doesn't really follow the Heman cartoon the
(34:45):
timeline exactly. It's got some it's got some of the
same characters and similar through lines, but it's got some
of its own characters. It starts Dolf Loundgren, and when
Dolph was in this movie, he actually had to learn
English to play the part of Heman. You learned English.
For this movie, it's schlocky, it's bad. It's got Courtney
(35:08):
Cox in it, who's an orphan because her parents died
in a plane crash. Got Billy Barty in it. It's
got Billy Barty in it. Is Gwildor, who is a
special character for this movie. It's just it's all over
the place. But it's so bad it's good. And that's
saying something for he Man because the Hemane cartoon itself
(35:28):
was made to sell toys. Yes, it was not by
any means any sort of high brown brow entertainment animation
could be true art he Man was not it alright, Okay,
so what about Killed Bill? Killed Bill? It's a Quentin
Tarantino pair of movies, Volume one and volume two, and
it tells us the story of the bride, whose name
is revealed at the end. But just in case you
(35:50):
haven't seen the movie, I'm not going to spoil it
for you, and uh it's It opens up with her
being shot on the floor of a church and she survives,
and when she wakes up after a coma after four years,
she is determined to hunt down her assailants and knock
(36:10):
them off one by one and as you watch the movie,
you learned that she is one of a group of
elite assassins all had with nicknames that that or code
names that came after different types of snakes, except for Bill,
who is the leader of the group, and so she
is out to kill Bill for what he did to her. Uh,
(36:30):
there are a lot more details than that, but that's
really all you need to know. Oh, I guess I
didn't go over the plot of of he then I
don't really think you need to. It is to explain
the plot of Masters of the Universe would be crazy.
There's a there's a magic key and the good guys
need to get it before the bad guys can use it. Yeah,
(36:50):
and they go to Earth and then they go back
to Attorney. Okay, that's all you need to know. Okay,
so I'm going to start. Okay, so this is kill Scale.
So for kill Scale, we have to start a while
back back when he Man was a member of Skeletor's crew,
when Skeletor was new to ATTORNEYA that you didn't know
that was a thing, but it is. For this he
Man got tired of Skeletor always trying to take over
(37:12):
all of the power of the universe and decided to
change actions, joining up with pro Attorney a Fellows, Tela,
and Man at Arms. He quickly falls in love with
Tila and they decided to get married, and this infuriates Skeletor,
who tries to kill he Man. However, he only exceeds
in knocking him out and sends him to a different
planet Earth. When he Man awakes, he's in this strange
place Earth. Mad that he has been sent to this
(37:34):
horrible land far away from his love, he searches for revenge.
He comes across beast Man following a trail of shed
it fur and threatens to beat him up to get
a clue on how to get home and get revenge.
Beast Man caves and tells him that he must learn
the five point cosmic key pudge to defeat Skeletor once
and for all. But the only person who can teach
him that is Guydoor, who is being held captive by
(37:57):
Evil oh lynn Is. She Evil Olyn Is. Evil Olyn
is extra dangerous because she has the Katana of Grace Skull.
He Man defeats Evil olyn Is. She frees Guidor, who
teaches him the five point cosmic key punch and then
he uses the power of the Katana of Gray Skull.
(38:18):
By the Power of Gray Skull to send him back
to Attorney. He meant confronts Skeletor, pretending to want to
rejoin his crew, and when they come together for the reconciliation,
hug he Met strikes Skeletor with the five point cousm
key punch a Skeletor falls to the ground. We see
he Man raise a sword above his head in victory. Nice.
All right, you're a for my mash up? Yes, okay.
(38:39):
I decided to ignore the movie and went straight to
the cartoon. Sounds good. I grew up with it. So
here we go as here's my Master of the Universe
meets kill Bill. We opened on a close up of
Evil Lynn's face as she lays on the floor. She's
clearly wounded, and we hear a calm voice tell her
that he didn't want it to come to this. She
gasps and says, kill door, it's your But before she
(39:02):
can finish the sentence, she's blasted by an energy beam.
Cut to credits some music from the seventies play Let's
Say It's Funky Town by Lips Incorporated. The title reads
kill Kell Door volume one. Four years later, Evil Lynn,
who apparently survived the attack, arrives at the cave of
beast Man. She and beast Man get into a knockdown,
(39:25):
drag out fight until beast Man's kid, beast Boy, shows up,
and they pretend to play nice with the promise to
meet later. When beast Boy is at soccer practice or something,
Evil Lynn shows up and beast Man tries to take
her by surprise by pulling a whip out of a
cereal box, but Evil Lynn can totally see that, like
half the whip is overflowing out of the box, so
(39:46):
she zaps him with some sorceress magic. Then Evil Lynn
takes out a list that has five names on it.
One of them has already been crossed off. Beast Man's
name is the second on the list, so she crosses
that one off. The names on the list read Merman,
beast Man, Trap, Jaw, stink Or, and Keldor, with parenthesis
next to that name that says skeletor question mark, question mark.
(40:10):
We flash back to that day when Evil Lynn got zapped.
He Man and Tila arrive at the scene of the
crime near Snake Mountain and realize that Evil Lynn, though comatast,
is still alive and they bring her to Castle Gray Skull.
Evil Lynn lies in a coma for four years, waking
up suddenly and using her magic powers to escape from
Castle Gray Skull. She momentarily bewitches Cringer Slash battle Cat
(40:32):
and hooks him up to a wagon to escape. So
she escapes in a let's call it a kitty wagon
some more seventies music plays Let's say it's Rupert Holmes's
classic escape a k a. The Pina Colada song. We
flash forward to Evil Lynn traveling to face off against
the first name on her list, Merman, which requires her
(40:55):
to go to a crumby old pond on the outskirts
of Snake Mountain. There, Merman is having a party at
an octopus's garden. In the shade, some cool indie band
is playing. You know the type of band, the type
that's so cool you would never see them live because
they'd only play like three exclusive parties before they broke
up over some stupid reason. So you'd always hear from
(41:16):
your friends Steve how great they were, as if Steve
were at the party. But how the heck did Steve
get in? I mean Steve's a total jerk, and besides,
he doesn't know anyone cool, so he's gotta be lying
about it. I know you're lying, Steve. Anyway, they play
a song from the seventies. It's Debbie Boone's You Light
Up My Life Ebbie. Evil Lynd then faces off against
(41:36):
a horde of Merman's accomplices, but they're mostly fish, so
it really doesn't slow her down very much. Then she
has a big fight with Merman, where the score builds
it up like it's gonna be some sort of epic
combat sequence, but in fact it just takes like three
moves and she kills Merman, so she crosses him off
the list. One of Merman's fish flops out of the
pond and all the way up to Snake Mountain, where
(41:57):
we see it Warren Keldor a k a. S. Eletor
of evil Lyn's return Skeletor says something cool, except he
doesn't that dumb voice of his he thinks he's so big,
and we end with another seventies song. I'm gonna say
it's the theme to the Great Great Ape Show, and
we end because this is volume one. So what happens next?
(42:18):
I guess we'll have to wait for another mashup to
find out. Oh that was brilliant, thank you at least
far in the dust. Well, I also didn't have to.
I didn't restrict myself to the movie. If I had,
it would have been a lot less ridiculous. Listen, I'm glad.
I'm just glad you didn't bring Fisto into it, because
that's well, there are a lot of There are a
(42:39):
lot of characters of he Man that to choose from,
but I went with the classics. So anyone who is
aware of the old Heman toys, uh, they use like
four different molds to produce most of the action figures,
so a lot of the characters are legit identical to
one another except for some slight accessories and paint jobs,
(43:00):
and otherwise they're exactly the same figure. So much so
that fun fact, you could pull the arms off of
your he mane toys and switch them with other he
Man toys. So I had a he Man who had
a skeletor arm and a beast Man arm, and you know,
there's a lot of disarming in he Man at my house.
So poor he Man figures. But that's our mashups and
(43:22):
I'm sure our listeners have great ideas for mashing up
you know, he Masters in the Universe and kill Bill. Uh,
some of which we might even be able to share
with everybody else. Keep in mind, this is a family show,
which is why it was the kiddie Wagon. Yes, but
if you do have an idea for that, you can
(43:42):
write us and tell us all about it. You can
reach out to us on Twitter at Ellen c Underscore Podcast,
or on Facebook or Instagram at the Large and Ordering Collider.
Send us a d M, send us a message, will
read it. If we like it, we'll even read it
on the show. Yes, and make sure that you tell
your ends about this show. And if you are listening
to it, you know, give us a review on whatever
(44:04):
service you use. It really helps to get the show
out there. We would greatly appreciate it. And uh, we
really look forward to doing lots of these. And if
you have any other suggestions for mash ups, stuff that
you would like us to cover, you know, geek topics
that you think we should dive into, let's know that too. Yeah,
and until next time, I'm Ariel Casting, I'm Jonathan Strickland,
(44:47):
the Large nur Dron Collider is production of I Heart
Radio and was created by Ariel cast In. Jonathan Strickland
is the executive producer. This show is produced, edited, and
published by Tory Harrison. For more podcasts on My art Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows. H
The Large Nerdron Collider Podcast is a production of I
Heart Radio. Hey everybody, Welcome to The Large Nerdron Collider Podcast,
the podcast that's all about the geeky things happening in
the world around us and how very excited we are
(00:28):
about them. I am arial casting and with me as
always is my brilliant friend and co host Jonathan Strickland
Hay Ariel. Yes, Jonathan, I've got a question for you.
Do you have a movie or maybe a TV show
(00:51):
that you really like that you have heard other people
describe as bad? Yes, Van Helsing, you genuinely liked the
film Van Helsing. Yes, I genuinely like Van Helsing. Well,
it was Hugh Jackman in that Yes, he was. I
have never seen it. I remember the previews. He was
(01:14):
Gabriel Van Helsing and Kate Beckinsale was the love interest,
and then Regina Dracula Son Yes, yes, and we had
Richard Roxborough and David went hum you know it was
it was Dracula fighting Batman comedy and it's what I
(01:36):
wanted and it's what I got, And a lot of
people will say it wasn't the movie they wanted, kind
of like a lot of people aren't super big fans
of I guess it's not recent. Now do you give
extraordinary gentlemen with Sean Connery? Yes, thank you Sean Connery.
But you know, if you go in with lowered expectations,
(01:56):
then you can be pleasantly surprised. I actually owned Van Helsing.
Of course you do Dylan Dog Dead of Night, which
is way worse but equally fun. Okay, continue on, Well
would you like would you would you like to turn
the tables on me? Or yes I would? I was sorry.
I thought I had already asked you. I was so
(02:17):
excited about cheesy Dracula hunting. What is your favorite bad
movie or movie that you think is great that everybody
else does not? Well, this one, this one's kind of
unfair because it's throwing my wife under the bus. But
my wife once described Big Trouble in Little China as
a good bad movie, and I took umbradge at that
(02:40):
because I think of it as a fantastic, great movie.
There is no bad when it comes to Big Trouble
in Little China. You see, I didn't watch that until
later on in in my life, as in the last
ten years, so I would have to agree with your wife.
For me, it is a good bad movie. It might
(03:03):
have been great for its time, but because of the
era in which I watched it, see, I think of
it as a schlocky movie, but not a bad movie.
And and the reason why I asked this question, dear listeners,
is that in our second segment today, we'll be taking
more of a dive into what makes a good bad
(03:25):
movie versus a bad good movie, as in like a
bad big budget film or just a mediocre mess right, Like,
what what are the qualities that makes something special where
it is entertaining. Even if you could objectively say this
is bad, you cannot objectively say this is bad about
(03:45):
Big Trouble Little China, because that movie is freaking awesome.
And I swear if we can have a cinematic universe,
were Big Trouble and Little China and The Last Dragon
could coexist along with buck Rubanza, it would be the
best movie ever made. I am all I mean, I'm
(04:06):
all about that. I like all of those movies. I
would say Buckery Bonsai is probably the lowest on the
list of those three. For me, I can understand that
because I love that movie. John Lithgal makes that movie.
But we're getting off track. That movie has pacing issues, right, Like,
the last time I watched Buck Rubans, I was like, wow,
(04:26):
I forgot how many long slow segments of this movie
there are where like you're just waiting for something else
to happen, and if you're not like really engaged, you're
gonna nod off. Um. But whenever John Lithgal is on
the screen, he's phenomenal. Who's a laugh And now Monkey
(04:47):
Boy is still one of my favorite movie quotes of
all time. But let's get on to our first segment.
What is this first segment called Ariel? Well, this first
segment is called get to Know Jonathan. We are taking
a break from the news this week. Uh, and we're
going to get to know our beloved friend Jonathan here.
Hey that's me, I'm Jonathan. Yes, my life's an open book.
(05:09):
What do you want to know? Okay, So if your
life's an open book, let's start with some a real easy,
like a slow ball, like, what is your favorite book? Uh?
So my favorite book would very likely I think I'd
have to answer the hobbit. Um. I've got a lot
of books that I absolutely adore. Good Omens by Terry Pratchett,
(05:32):
and Neil Gaiman is one of my favorites. Hitchhiker's Guide
to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams another one. But The
Hobbit by Tolkien was probably the book that really got
me into the fantasy genre so much so that I
have a Lord the Lord of the Rings inspired tattoo
(05:53):
on my left arm, So I'm gonna go with that.
And and I like The Hobbit for what it is.
I think of it as a fairy tale. Uh. It's
why I didn't love the trilogy of movies based on
The Hobbit, because I felt like it was trying to
turn the Hobbit into something that it's not. It was
trying to go from fairy tale to epic fantasy to
(06:15):
more closely match what we saw with Lord of the Rings.
But that's why it didn't work for me, because that's
not what the book is. I would have to agree.
Is The Hobbit and and Lord of the Rings something
you read as a child or is it something that
you discovered as more of an adult. So The Hobbit
was the first long book I could long quote unquote
(06:36):
book I can remember reading as a kid. I essentially
went from there's a monster at the end of this
book with Grover straight to the Hobbit. There's actually a
crayon picture I drew when I was four that I
have somewhere in this house. It's in a frame that
says Gallum in the Ring, drawn by Jonathan aged four.
So I yeah, I read The Hobbit early, early, early on.
(06:57):
I remember, or I seem to remember, And I could
be wrong about this because memory is a tricky thing.
That my parents told me I could watch the cartoon
of the Hobbit if I read the book first, and
so I did. Um, And so I read it as
a very young child. I tried reading Lord of the
Rings when I was in middle school or high school,
(07:17):
and I remember I tried two times, and I stopped
midway through the two Towers, essentially at the siege at
Helm's Deep, and I could not get past it. Like
I just got to a point where I put the
book down and I just never came back to pick
it back up. And by the time I finally wanted
to try it again, I had forgotten everything. So I
had to start back over. Um. So it was only
(07:39):
on my third time reading The Lord of the Rings
that I actually got all the way through. I have
since reread that several times, and I've read the Samarillian
as well. So Two Towers is definitely the most difficult
of the books to get through. I would say, so,
are you are you more of a fantasy guy or
sci fi guy? You said, since you have such a
love for Lord of the Rings. Yeah, I would say
(08:01):
that I'm probably more fantasy than science fiction throughout most
of my life. I would say that I've leaned harder
into science fiction over the last maybe five or six years,
but definitely when I was growing up, my interest was
more in fantasy Tolkien, Lloyd Alexander, Pierce, Anthony, although that
(08:24):
more than a little problematic in retrospect. I didn't realize
it at the time, but as an adult I definitely
see it. Uh, Robert Asprin, these are all authors that
I read, Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman um, so I
was really into that. And then it's been more in
recent years I've been sort of gravitating more towards science
fiction than fantasy, largely because I think, uh, there are
(08:47):
too many fantasy authors who are not good, and they
fall into the same sort of tropes where you feel
like everyone is just kind of a a copy of
a copy of a copy of Tolkien, so you know,
they don't really stand out so well. Um, I will
say that there was one point where I was kind
of drafting out an idea for a book of my own,
(09:09):
and that is a book that would be in the
fantasy genre. If I ever write it, it'll be a
fantasy book. I s par you do, because I would
love to read it. So you mentioned reading fantasy is
a very very young child, and I know your dad
is an author, and you went to a lot of
conventions because of that cross section of your life. What
(09:30):
is the earliest convention you can remember? Oh, I remember, Okay,
my memory is terrible as far as figuring out which
bits are earliest, But I went to there was a
convention that predated dragon Con called the Atlanta Fantasy Fair,
and it was sort of the big science fiction fantasy
convention in Atlanta before dragon Con became a thing. And
(09:52):
I remember going to that and their costume contest was
one of the pivotal events of the entire convention. And
my mom loved making costumes for me and my sister,
and so we were entered into the costume contest pretty
much every single year, and I think the very first
costume I ever wore to one of those, and I
won the children's category was Et the Extraterrestrial. I was
(10:17):
the little squat et Uh. I look like a giant
plush et doll and um and uh and I won that.
My sister one best of show for the entire masquerade.
She was uh the female Guilfling from the Dark Crystal
uh Kira. I think I can't remember her name, but
(10:37):
she had a little fizz gig puppet on her hand. Um.
So that's the earliest I remember. But we also would
go to like Star Trek conventions, and there was another
smaller Atlantic co mintion called Phoenix con we would go to.
So I went to a lot of these and it
was really cool experience, like as one of those things
where to me it was just normal because that's how
I grew up. But again as an adult, I can
(10:59):
look back on that and say like, wow, that was
a really special time. That sounds like a really special time,
and it's great to have those kind of memories. So
was it a transition of going to the conventions? Is
that how you got into the Georgia Renaissance Festival. Because
we've talked about we both worked at Georgia Renaissance Festival.
Is that you went to the conventions, you went to
the Red Fest, you said, hey, I want to do this,
(11:19):
or how did you get involved there? So I first
went to the Renaissance Festival when I was a kid. Now,
Ariel and I worked at the Renaissance Festival where it's
at its current location, but before that, it was in
a slightly smaller site that was just down the road
from where it is now. This doesn't mean anything to
anyone who's note in Georgia, but but it was a
(11:40):
smaller site. It was in like this little wooded area,
and I remember going and thinking it was fantastic. We
saw stage shows. I remember Zilch, the Tory Stellar, and
I remember the mud show players and all these sorts
of fun characters, and I thought it was really enchanting.
But that was about it. And then I was at
Dragon Con and I was in a production of a
(12:02):
show called Romeo and Ethel the Pirates Daughter. And this
was the version of it before you did it, Ariel,
Because you were in one of those two, right, you
were in the second one. I was. I was in
the reiteration of it. Yes, so this was in the
original one where I was playing a character named Byron
all the sailors in our Our Little Story, which was
(12:22):
a one off joke in Shakespeare in Love, and the
actress who was playing the spirit arial Uh was Val
and Val would go on she was also working at
the Renisance Festival, and she would go on to become
an entertainment director there. But she told me while we
(12:42):
were in rehearsals for this show about the auditions for
the Renaissance Festival. And back then the Renaissance Festival had
a fall season in a spring season, so I auditioned
for the fall season, and um, I was told that
I was one of just a few people who had
ever auditioned, and immediately got high fired. I didn't have
to do a callback or anything. They hired me on
(13:02):
the spot, and they gave me the choice of playing
either the town doctor or the town mayor, and I
thought mayor outranks doctor, so I picked him, and that
that began my career at the Georgia Renaissance Festival. And
that was, oh golly, that seems forever ago. Your mayor,
by the way, was hilarious, part of the reason I
(13:24):
joined the Renaissance Festival. So the other thing I want
to ask you about is horror movies. You love horror?
I uh, And I guess it harkens back to when
you said the first book you remember reading as a
monster at the end of this book, because I guess
it would be a very infantile child introduction to horror,
even though it's got a happy ending. So when did
(13:47):
you decide that you liked horror? What is your favorite
bad horror movie? And what is your favorite good horror? Oh? Man,
those are some good questions. So I think I got
into horror when I was probably probably around twelve or thirteen,
which is about I think the average age for most
horror fans. Um. I just was one of those things where,
(14:10):
for one thing, it seemed like it was forbidden, right
because horror movies were the types of things that would
come on late, you know, after your bedtime normally, So
there was that sort of allure that this is something
outside of what you're supposed to experience. But I also
just found it fascinating. And I mean as a kid,
I remember there were certain movies that as an adult,
(14:31):
they aren't scary to me at all, but as a kid,
that really messed me up. Um. But if we're talking
about my favorite bad horror movie and my favorite good
horror movie, my favorite bad horror movie, ah, this is
a hard one. Uh. I'm gonna say Dr. Giggles, which
I think I've only seen one time, but I remember
(14:53):
loving how truly terrible a horror movie it is. It
was a slasher film, And I remember that I had
uh buttons that were promotional buttons at these science fiction conventions.
One of the things that you used to be able
to get where all these freebees that movie movie companies
would put out to promote upcoming films. And I had
(15:13):
a huge collection of buttons from various movies. And I
remember there were two for Dr Giggles where it said
the doctor is in and then written next to it
was sane, So Insane, and the other ones the doctor
is out and the written next to it was of
his mind and m Dr Giggles is a really dumb
slasher horror film that I loved. As for good horror movies,
(15:36):
there are so many, But if I have to pick one,
like a truly phenomenal horror movie, it's the Witch or
The the Vich if you prefer that one is spectacular.
It is an incredible film as as someone who also
loves Shakespeare. It has a a Shakespearean kind of of
(15:58):
gravitas and the lang, which helps a lot with that
because it's very a period realistic language, and it is
just a phenomenal film. And it stars uh the the
Queen's Gamba actress, who was also Yeah, she's she's amazing minute.
She's so young and so good, and she makes me
(16:20):
so mad because she's so good. Yeah, I can't feel that.
Antonia Taylor Joy, Yes, I should know her name by now.
She is, she's she's killing it. She was also recently
in a bad horror movie, The New Mutants. Yes, I
hear that she was giving a really terrible accent in
that film. You know, I haven't watched it. Maybe maybe
(16:42):
i'll watch it when I'm really bored on demand one day.
So do you tend towards slasher films over suspense or
actually I prefer supernatural horror that involves lots of tension.
I actually think those are much better. Like. Another great
film that I love is The Changeling, which was a
nineteen eight d film with George C. Scott or The
(17:03):
Exorcist three, which is not at all really related. I
mean it is somewhat related to the first Exorcist movie,
not at all related to Exorcist too. Um. Both of
those are incredible at at cranking up tension, but they're
not They both kind of go off the rails towards
the very end of the movie, which is unfortunate. But
(17:23):
from most of the film they're just really good at
making you feel very tense and wondering is this tension
ever going to be relieved? And I love movies like
that that can have you feel that sort of thing.
To me, a slasher film is just dumb fun Most
of the time. In a slasher film, what you're left
wondering is in what order are your protagonists going to die?
(17:43):
And how are they going to do it? Yeah, i'd
agree with that. I just watched Screen for the first
time this year, and that that was what I spent
the entire movie asking, so well, that one, That one
is also a deconstruction of the slasher genre, right like
that was. Scream was a commentary on slasher films and
sort of almost a parody of them, and that was
(18:08):
what I found so entertaining about Scream was that it
was being very smart about how dumb slasher films are.
So would you say that was a good movie, a
good bad movie, or a bad good scream? Scream was
good good? Yeah. No, the first Scream is the first
Scream is a genuinely good movie. The sequels less. So
(18:29):
got you. Well, thank you for letting me interview you
and letting all of our listeners learn a little bit
more about you and the geek that you are. We're
going to take a quick break, and then when we
come back, we're going to talk about some movies that
are good bad or bad good? Okay, Ariel, can you
(18:56):
define for me what it means to you for a
movie to be a good bad movie? What does that
mean to you? I don't know, So there's so many
different definitions of that. So I guess when you initially
say a good bad movie, that is a movie that
is so bad that it is enjoyable to watch. Usually,
to me, those are movies that people tried really hard
to make a good movie and it just failed. But
(19:20):
all of that passion and all of that drive to
deliver entertainment is still there. I will say there are
a couple of movies to me that we're intentionally written
poorly or set satirically, that are also quite fun fun
to watch. But that's much harder to pull off. And
that's when you veer into a whether it's a good
bad movie or a bad good movie. Because if they're
(19:43):
trying to make a bad movie good and it fails,
is this whole conundrum. What about you? What is a
What is a good bad movie? To you? I think
I pretty much agree with you. I think pretty much
I'm qualifying this a lot. I agree with you. I
think I think a good bad movie is a movie
that fails, on typically a spectacular level, to deliver what
(20:09):
they set out to do. But it wasn't intentional like
it it was due to the limitations of the filmmakers.
It might be due to the limitations of their equipment
or their expertise with using the equipment. It might be
due to the limitations of their acting ability of the cast, um,
(20:29):
it might be all. It might be a collection of
these factors. It might be terrible editing where you're watching
the movie and you're constantly asking what's going on because
the sequence doesn't seem to be following like you're not
able to logically go from scene to scene to scene.
These are all things to me that make a good
bad movie where you can have fun watching it, and
(20:52):
it's not even necessarily mean spirited. It's just it's just
just the amazement of how bad it is. I think
of THEO Whom when I finally saw because Ariel, you
saw the Room a whole bunch of times before I
ever saw it. I did. I have matching t shirts
with a few of my friends that are the Golden
gate Bridge. When we line up, we make the Golden
(21:12):
gate Bridge says go go go across the back because
I saw it in theaters with a bunch of people, uh,
sort of as an interactive experience, similar to going to
see Rocky Horror Picture show. Yeah yeah and see. To me,
like that's that. That is the epitome of a good
bad movie, because that movie is, by any objective standard,
a bad movie. Characters have terrible motivation, there's horrible dialogue.
(21:37):
I mean, the the actual technical expertise of the film
crew seems to be fine, because it's not like the
camera angles are weird or that the sound is bad.
But a couple of times the sound is not great. Yeah,
and and there are ridiculous sequences shot on a sound
stage that could have just as easily been shot on location. Uh, which,
(21:58):
really you find out the reason of that is because Tommyzzoh,
the filmmaker, wanted his movie to be a quote unquote
real movie, and real movies were shot on sound stages,
not in the world. And uh, you know, it's just
it's it's such a weird film that I was just
constantly saying to the screen out loud, what and uh,
(22:22):
much to the amusement of the three other people I
was with, all of whom had seen the film before.
Um and and but that as a genuine, good, bad film.
Another one I would argue that a lot of people
will think of as trolls to Trolls Too is ridiculously awful.
Like it is hard to put into words how bad
(22:42):
Trolls Too is, but it's wildly entertaining. I will admit
I've only seen bits and pieces of troll To where
the person is eating corn. Yes, I believe I should
say troll to. I said trolls to, not like the characters,
not like the little cartoon. I mean troll To, not
the one with the bacary Brothers in right, not not
(23:03):
Trolls World Tour, although the macaroy brothers were introll too,
that would be pretty phenomenal. Yeah, yeah, No, I couldn't
tell you what the eating corn pertained to. But I
think the reason that I made it through the room
as many times as I did and I didn't make
it through Troll too, is because I watched the room
with a group of people who could commiserate in the
(23:24):
badness with me. I feel like that is integral when
you're watching either a movie that is intentionally bad and
well done, or a movie that was meant to be
well done and it's just really really bad. That's that's
the whole premise behind Mystery Science Theater three thousand. When
I when I saw Troll two, I thought for the
first time, Uh, it was for another show called Podcast
(23:47):
Without Pretense, where we had all decided that we were
going to watch terrible movies on Netflix and see how
far we could get into them without having any distractions,
because all of us realized that we had all gotten
into the habit of having something on but also like
looking at our phones or on a computer or something,
so you're not really paying attention, and we said, let's
(24:08):
try and dedicate our full focus to things that do
not deserve it and see see how far we can get.
And so we picked troll Too. I think that might
have even been our first movie that we ever picked.
And I started it up, thinking, you know, I had
never seen it before the movie starts and I'm like, oh,
you know what, I have seen some of this before,
but I think it's only like the first five minutes.
(24:30):
First five minutes goes by. Get into the second five minutes,
I'm like, no, I've seen this too. And I kept
waiting for the moment where I could say, oh, that's
where I left off until the movie ended and I
realized I had actually already seen the thing all the
way through, but had wiped it from my mind. Wow. Wow,
that's intense. Now do you like, I know you like
(24:55):
Mystery Science Theater three thousand, you like the room controlled
to What about movies that are intentionally bad like Shark
Nado or The FP or I'm gonna say Veloci pastor.
I actually don't know whether that one was just bad
or super low budget. I'm guessing the former. So I
think you hit upon it when you were describing good
(25:16):
bad movies where you talked about if you are intentionally
making something bad but with the goal of being entertaining,
that is way harder, I think than making something that's
good and entertaining. I think it's actually easier to make
a good entertaining thing than a bad entertaining thing, because
you're more likely to make something that either doesn't come
(25:39):
across as genuine. So you're like, well, yeah, we could
all get in front of the camera and do a
really crappy job, but that doesn't make it good. That
doesn't make it entertaining. Um, you know, you you have
to be able to craft that in a way that
makes it good. I think of certain things like the
play Noises Off right. Noises Off as a play within
(26:03):
a play, and there is a section where the actors
in that play within a play are actively trying to
sabotage one another while a performance is going So things
are going wrong, but they have to go wrong in
exactly the right way, and that's where the comedy is.
And if anyone messes up, if they mess up messing up,
(26:24):
the jokes don't work. So it's like it's like the
most well timed magic trick, really and there are other
examples of this, the Play That Goes Wrong or the
Goes Wrong show, those are based on that same premise.
Sometimes it works, like I would say that there are
certain bad things that were made to be bad that
(26:47):
work and they are entertaining, and there are others that
it just feels so lazy and so designed by committee
that I actually find it distracting and distress full, Like
Shark Nado is a great example. I think the Shark
Nado films in general are so lazy and sloppy and
(27:08):
done with a complete lack of respect for the audience
that it comes through as being just a cheap um
cash grab. And they're not like they're bad, and they're
laughably bad in the sense that the stuff that's happening
doesn't make any logical sense. But you realize that that
was something that was decided upon. It didn't just happen
(27:31):
because the limitations of the filmmaking process. It happened because
someone decided, Hey, let's do it this way, because won't
that be funny at how bad it is? And when
it's done that way, it just doesn't The magic's gone. Yeah,
I could agree with you there. I I think for
it goes back to the passion thing again. If you're
(27:51):
making a movie to be laughably bad just to hey,
people like bad movies, let's make a bad movie, then
it doesn't have that extra little something I going back
to the Room. I watched The Disaster Artist, which is
a movie about the making of the Room with James Franco,
and it had this really you came out of that
(28:11):
movie going, man, this was a train wreck, but the
people really tried, And so at the same time that
I'm laughing at it, I almost feel bad because of
how much heart the person put into it. So I
feel a little conflicted with the bad movies. But it's
it's always the ones like that that become cult classics
that I'm most happy for as well, because they're able
(28:34):
to find joy and and acceptance in this thing that
they poured their heart into. And I just don't get
the same heart in shark Nado. Yeah. Yeah, well and
and and like you said, like it is, I mean
it's it is frustrating for an artist for their work
to be uh enjoyed in a way they had not anticipated, right, like,
(28:57):
especially especially in a way where people are making fun
of it or laughing at it. When you were trying
to make something serious that I'm sure is a big
blow to an artist's ego. However, there's another potential outcome
that's even worse, which is where you get the mediocre
film where there's nothing entertaining about it at all, where
(29:20):
it's not well made, but it's also not entertaining, and
you just feel like you've wasted your time and your
board to tears and you've you've got nothing really substantive
to say about it. That's the worst outcome, right, So
there are outcomes that where you walk away and you're like,
I can't believe I spent my time seeing that there
(29:42):
was a There was a Genclaude van Damn film. It
was one of those martial arts tournament style films, and
I can't even remember the title of it now, but
I remember I got a free pass to go and
see it when I was in college in Athens, Georgia.
So I go with a friend of mine. We go
and we get to see it for free, and at
the end of the movie, we sat there and thought,
(30:04):
I almost want to ask for my money back, except
I didn't pay for anything to see this film. You know.
I felt that way about some films too. I felt
that way about Sucker Punch, and it's highly contested among
my friends, But that movie I just walked out of
saying no, not for me. Yeah, it was close to
Southland's tale about bad for Me. I've got a lot
of friends who feel the same way about both of
(30:25):
those movies, so that they also share your opinion, is
what I mean. I have not seen either of those.
We have a few on our list we didn't really cover,
and we're going to conclude this discussion, but we just
wanted to mention, like some of the ones will probably
talk about in a subsequent episode where we talk about
stuff like nostalgia, because some of these movies that are
the good bad or bad good movies are also trying
(30:48):
to tap into nostalgia as a means of connecting with
the audience. So I would argue the FP falls into
that category. But I thought the FP was genuinely entertaining,
just really really strange. I thought it was more strange
than bad. But it did go super schlocky, like schlocky bad,
I guess, and I believe purposefully so. Yes, Turbo Kid
(31:11):
the same way Turbo Kid was over the top schlocky. Uh,
and really hitting on the nostalgia as well. But but
there also seemed to be a genuine sincerity two the
narrative under the story, right, Like I get that with
the FP as well. Like in both of those, you
look at it and you think this is something that
(31:34):
someone wanted to make as opposed to I pitched this
idea in a pitch meeting where we were just throwing
spaghetti against the wall and this one strand happened a stick,
and now I have to make it. That's the way
I feel about the Asylum movies is the Asylum movies
to me, I feel like they were made in a quick,
cash grab, opportunistic way. Uh And and that's bared out
(31:56):
I think a lot by the fact that most of
the Asylum films are are cheap knockoffs of big budget movies. Yeah,
you know, Kung Fury is another one that that banks
on your nostalgia but is purposefully bad. And I know
many friends would say it Mrs the Mark. For me,
I think my my favorite bad movies are things like
(32:18):
Hudson Hawk or Howard the Duck because they do play
on that there schlocky. They play on my nostalgia factor
and they're just fun. It seems like everybody had fun
making them. Yeah, I don't know how far I can
go with you on Howard the Duck. That movie. That
movie I hated since And that movie came out when
I was a kid, and I've hated it on my
(32:39):
entire life. Um, but Hudson Hogg. I saw that film
long after there was the whole like hoopla about it
being the worst movie of all time. You know, whenever
a movie comes out that doesn't meet people's expectations, it
immediately gets branded as the worst of all time, right,
and Hudson Hawk had been listen as one of those
contenders for the worst movie of all time. When I
(33:01):
finally saw it, I thought, this is what people were saying. Listen,
I have seen way worse than this, And and uh like,
Hudson Hawk at times is genuinely entertaining. There are segments
of Hudson Hawk that are either cringe worthy or just
like you just want to turn it off. But it's
(33:23):
nowhere near the worst movie of all time, and it
does manage to be quite entertaining through much of it.
So it goes It goes back to my Van Helsing
statement of if you go in with lowered expectations, You're
going to be pleasantly surprised. Yes, And on that note,
please lower your expectations. After this break, we'll be coming
back with a mash up. Okay, it's mash up time.
(34:01):
What to properties are we taking to make something new
out of? Well, we are taking Masters of the Universe,
which is a he Man movie, not the same exactly
as the cartoon, but still and kill Bill excellent. Do
you want to go first or do you want me
to go first? I? Well, do we want to explain
(34:22):
what kill Bill is? If anybody doesn't know, I'll take
I'll take one. Which one do you want to take?
I'll be glad to take the other one. I'll take
Masters of the Universe. Okay, go for it. Okay. So
Masters of the Universe is this seven movie based on
he Man. It doesn't really follow the Heman cartoon the
(34:45):
timeline exactly. It's got some it's got some of the
same characters and similar through lines, but it's got some
of its own characters. It starts Dolf Loundgren, and when
Dolph was in this movie, he actually had to learn
English to play the part of Heman. You learned English.
For this movie, it's schlocky, it's bad. It's got Courtney
(35:08):
Cox in it, who's an orphan because her parents died
in a plane crash. Got Billy Barty in it. It's
got Billy Barty in it. Is Gwildor, who is a
special character for this movie. It's just it's all over
the place. But it's so bad it's good. And that's
saying something for he Man because the Hemane cartoon itself
(35:28):
was made to sell toys. Yes, it was not by
any means any sort of high brown brow entertainment animation
could be true art he Man was not it alright, Okay,
so what about Killed Bill? Killed Bill? It's a Quentin
Tarantino pair of movies, Volume one and volume two, and
it tells us the story of the bride, whose name
is revealed at the end. But just in case you
(35:50):
haven't seen the movie, I'm not going to spoil it
for you, and uh it's It opens up with her
being shot on the floor of a church and she survives,
and when she wakes up after a coma after four years,
she is determined to hunt down her assailants and knock
(36:10):
them off one by one and as you watch the movie,
you learned that she is one of a group of
elite assassins all had with nicknames that that or code
names that came after different types of snakes, except for Bill,
who is the leader of the group, and so she
is out to kill Bill for what he did to her. Uh,
(36:30):
there are a lot more details than that, but that's
really all you need to know. Oh, I guess I
didn't go over the plot of of he then I
don't really think you need to. It is to explain
the plot of Masters of the Universe would be crazy.
There's a there's a magic key and the good guys
need to get it before the bad guys can use it. Yeah,
(36:50):
and they go to Earth and then they go back
to Attorney. Okay, that's all you need to know. Okay,
so I'm going to start. Okay, so this is kill Scale.
So for kill Scale, we have to start a while
back back when he Man was a member of Skeletor's crew,
when Skeletor was new to ATTORNEYA that you didn't know
that was a thing, but it is. For this he
Man got tired of Skeletor always trying to take over
(37:12):
all of the power of the universe and decided to
change actions, joining up with pro Attorney a Fellows, Tela,
and Man at Arms. He quickly falls in love with
Tila and they decided to get married, and this infuriates Skeletor,
who tries to kill he Man. However, he only exceeds
in knocking him out and sends him to a different
planet Earth. When he Man awakes, he's in this strange
place Earth. Mad that he has been sent to this
(37:34):
horrible land far away from his love, he searches for revenge.
He comes across beast Man following a trail of shed
it fur and threatens to beat him up to get
a clue on how to get home and get revenge.
Beast Man caves and tells him that he must learn
the five point cosmic key pudge to defeat Skeletor once
and for all. But the only person who can teach
him that is Guydoor, who is being held captive by
(37:57):
Evil oh lynn Is. She Evil Olyn Is. Evil Olyn
is extra dangerous because she has the Katana of Grace Skull.
He Man defeats Evil olyn Is. She frees Guidor, who
teaches him the five point cosmic key punch and then
he uses the power of the Katana of Gray Skull.
(38:18):
By the Power of Gray Skull to send him back
to Attorney. He meant confronts Skeletor, pretending to want to
rejoin his crew, and when they come together for the reconciliation,
hug he Met strikes Skeletor with the five point cousm
key punch a Skeletor falls to the ground. We see
he Man raise a sword above his head in victory. Nice.
All right, you're a for my mash up? Yes, okay.
(38:39):
I decided to ignore the movie and went straight to
the cartoon. Sounds good. I grew up with it. So
here we go as here's my Master of the Universe
meets kill Bill. We opened on a close up of
Evil Lynn's face as she lays on the floor. She's
clearly wounded, and we hear a calm voice tell her
that he didn't want it to come to this. She
gasps and says, kill door, it's your But before she
(39:02):
can finish the sentence, she's blasted by an energy beam.
Cut to credits some music from the seventies play Let's
Say It's Funky Town by Lips Incorporated. The title reads
kill Kell Door volume one. Four years later, Evil Lynn,
who apparently survived the attack, arrives at the cave of
beast Man. She and beast Man get into a knockdown,
(39:25):
drag out fight until beast Man's kid, beast Boy, shows up,
and they pretend to play nice with the promise to
meet later. When beast Boy is at soccer practice or something,
Evil Lynn shows up and beast Man tries to take
her by surprise by pulling a whip out of a
cereal box, but Evil Lynn can totally see that, like
half the whip is overflowing out of the box, so
(39:46):
she zaps him with some sorceress magic. Then Evil Lynn
takes out a list that has five names on it.
One of them has already been crossed off. Beast Man's
name is the second on the list, so she crosses
that one off. The names on the list read Merman,
beast Man, Trap, Jaw, stink Or, and Keldor, with parenthesis
next to that name that says skeletor question mark, question mark.
(40:10):
We flash back to that day when Evil Lynn got zapped.
He Man and Tila arrive at the scene of the
crime near Snake Mountain and realize that Evil Lynn, though comatast,
is still alive and they bring her to Castle Gray Skull.
Evil Lynn lies in a coma for four years, waking
up suddenly and using her magic powers to escape from
Castle Gray Skull. She momentarily bewitches Cringer Slash battle Cat
(40:32):
and hooks him up to a wagon to escape. So
she escapes in a let's call it a kitty wagon
some more seventies music plays Let's say it's Rupert Holmes's
classic escape a k a. The Pina Colada song. We
flash forward to Evil Lynn traveling to face off against
the first name on her list, Merman, which requires her
(40:55):
to go to a crumby old pond on the outskirts
of Snake Mountain. There, Merman is having a party at
an octopus's garden. In the shade, some cool indie band
is playing. You know the type of band, the type
that's so cool you would never see them live because
they'd only play like three exclusive parties before they broke
up over some stupid reason. So you'd always hear from
(41:16):
your friends Steve how great they were, as if Steve
were at the party. But how the heck did Steve
get in? I mean Steve's a total jerk, and besides,
he doesn't know anyone cool, so he's gotta be lying
about it. I know you're lying, Steve. Anyway, they play
a song from the seventies. It's Debbie Boone's You Light
Up My Life Ebbie. Evil Lynd then faces off against
(41:36):
a horde of Merman's accomplices, but they're mostly fish, so
it really doesn't slow her down very much. Then she
has a big fight with Merman, where the score builds
it up like it's gonna be some sort of epic
combat sequence, but in fact it just takes like three
moves and she kills Merman, so she crosses him off
the list. One of Merman's fish flops out of the
pond and all the way up to Snake Mountain, where
(41:57):
we see it Warren Keldor a k a. S. Eletor
of evil Lyn's return Skeletor says something cool, except he
doesn't that dumb voice of his he thinks he's so big,
and we end with another seventies song. I'm gonna say
it's the theme to the Great Great Ape Show, and
we end because this is volume one. So what happens next?
(42:18):
I guess we'll have to wait for another mashup to
find out. Oh that was brilliant, thank you at least
far in the dust. Well, I also didn't have to.
I didn't restrict myself to the movie. If I had,
it would have been a lot less ridiculous. Listen, I'm glad.
I'm just glad you didn't bring Fisto into it, because
that's well, there are a lot of There are a
(42:39):
lot of characters of he Man that to choose from,
but I went with the classics. So anyone who is
aware of the old Heman toys, uh, they use like
four different molds to produce most of the action figures,
so a lot of the characters are legit identical to
one another except for some slight accessories and paint jobs,
(43:00):
and otherwise they're exactly the same figure. So much so
that fun fact, you could pull the arms off of
your he mane toys and switch them with other he
Man toys. So I had a he Man who had
a skeletor arm and a beast Man arm, and you know,
there's a lot of disarming in he Man at my house.
So poor he Man figures. But that's our mashups and
(43:22):
I'm sure our listeners have great ideas for mashing up
you know, he Masters in the Universe and kill Bill. Uh,
some of which we might even be able to share
with everybody else. Keep in mind, this is a family show,
which is why it was the kiddie Wagon. Yes, but
if you do have an idea for that, you can
(43:42):
write us and tell us all about it. You can
reach out to us on Twitter at Ellen c Underscore Podcast,
or on Facebook or Instagram at the Large and Ordering Collider.
Send us a d M, send us a message, will
read it. If we like it, we'll even read it
on the show. Yes, and make sure that you tell
your ends about this show. And if you are listening
to it, you know, give us a review on whatever
(44:04):
service you use. It really helps to get the show
out there. We would greatly appreciate it. And uh, we
really look forward to doing lots of these. And if
you have any other suggestions for mash ups, stuff that
you would like us to cover, you know, geek topics
that you think we should dive into, let's know that too. Yeah,
and until next time, I'm Ariel Casting, I'm Jonathan Strickland,
(44:47):
the Large nur Dron Collider is production of I Heart
Radio and was created by Ariel cast In. Jonathan Strickland
is the executive producer. This show is produced, edited, and
published by Tory Harrison. For more podcasts on My art Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows. H
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!