All Episodes

July 8, 2025 32 mins

Continuing the theme of exploring Papal history, we discuss Gerbert of Aurillac, AKA Pope Sylvester II, who's scientific and mathmatical mind lead him to the highest seat of Catholic power. But after his death, detractors and enemies would spin his story into one of dark arts and deals with the devil.

Support Noble Blood:

— Bonus episodes, stickers, and scripts on Patreon
— Order Dana's book, 'Anatomy: A Love Story' and its sequel 'Immortality: A Love Story'

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Noble Blood, A production of iHeartRadio and Grimm
and Mild from Aaron Manky listener discretion advised, shall I
die before I sing Mass in Jerusalem? That was the
key question that Gerbert of Arelac asked to his unnervingly

(00:23):
stoic companion. Gerbert was one of the most accomplished scholars
of his age, a teacher of emperors and a master
of sciences, yet he was never quite satisfied. His curiosity,
ambition and Hubrius had pushed him to seek power and

(00:43):
wealth through the dark arts, and in honing his sinister skills,
he had built a statue head that could speak. This
metallic automaton was magically bound to tell the truth and
could predict the future, but it only responded when asked

(01:06):
questions and only replied either yes or no. For instance,
one of Gerbert's first inquiries was will I be Pope?
His unholy statue prophet said yes. All of that is,
of course, according to legend, or rather a long history

(01:29):
of embellished stories that sought to explain and or tarnish
the unique life and unprecedented rise of a brilliant French
clergyman across the tenth century and start of the second millennium.
In some versions of that story, Gerbert consulted a wily

(01:50):
demon instead of a mechanical oracle. Some chroniclers insisted it
was a female demon named Murdana. Others were counted how
Gerbert additionally made a pact with the devil and was
perhaps even the Antichrist himself. Juicy stuff amid all of

(02:10):
these vivid rumors, though several evidence backed details have endured,
as Gerbert's own letters and numerous contemporary accounts from his
time showed Gerbert was indeed motivated by a passion for knowledge.
He continually expanded his scientific expertise, and his ambitions did

(02:33):
very much push him to seek increasingly high posts. Per
his statue head's alleged prediction, Gerbert did eventually become pope,
choosing the name Sylvester the Second. Yet in summoning the
Catholic Church's hierarchical mountain, he and his scientific contributions faced

(02:58):
mounting disdain and danger. Modern historians disagree with many of
their centuries earlier counterparts about whether Gerbert's ultimate undoing was
the result of a complex web of ideological and geopolitical
factors or punishment for a life of supposed diabolical dealings,

(03:23):
but just about every account seems to agree that one
thing of vital importance was, in the words of the
classic real estate adage, location, location location. As the myth goes,
Gerbert asked his mythical statue had that crucial question, if

(03:45):
you would die before singing Mass in Jerusalem. The head
replied no, easy, then Gerbert would live as long as
he could put off traveling to the ancient city. But
in avoiding Jerusalem, Gerbert apparently overlooked a crucial wrinkle. In Rome,

(04:06):
there was a church commonly called Jerusalem, and by giving
Mass there on May third, one thousand and three, in
both legend and reality, he finally sealed his fate. Got
to pay attention to the fine print. I'm Danas Schwartz
and this is noble blood. In nine hundred and sixty seven,

(04:33):
Gerbert made a journey that would change his life. The
transition from a relatively small monastery in the Kingdom of
France to the humming metropolis of Barcelona would have been
enticing to any curious mind. For Gerbert, then a young,
opportunistic monk with a voracious appetite for knowledge, Spain was

(04:56):
basically and all you can learn buffet. Herbert was especially
interested in the four traditional liberal arts known as the quadrivium, arithmetic, geometry, music,
and astronomy. Along the border of the Muslim ruled region
of the Iberian Peninsula known as Al Andalus, Gerbert found

(05:20):
scholarly communities that not only prized learning in those areas,
but also reportedly showed tremendous levels of tolerance and collaboration
between Muslim, Christian, and Jewish intellectuals. Gerbert's exact whereabouts during
his three years in Spain have sparked a fair amount

(05:40):
of politically fueled controversy among historians of different eras. However,
it is no stretch to say that, regardless of whether
Gerbert mostly stayed in Barcelona and at the Santa Maria
deir Pol monastery, or whether he crossed the border into
Islamic Spain, he absorbed significant wisdom and expertise that initially

(06:03):
came from Muslim scholars and Arabic educational centers. For instance,
the Royal Library in Cordoba, the then capital of l
and de Luce, was said to house between forty thousand
and four hundred thousand books, many of which were translated
from Persian, Indian, Greek, and African languages, and many of

(06:26):
those books had purportedly come from an acclaimed public academy
in Baghdad known as the House of Wisdom. So naturally,
given Gerbert's well documented love of reading and frequent letters
sent requesting tomes on topics of interest, Gerbert encountered plenty

(06:48):
of relevant texts and well informed scholars whose ideas had
originated or flourished in the spirited, incubating environment of Spain's
Islamic caes, whether or not he physically learned there himself
or not. Gerbert left for Rome in nine hundred and

(07:09):
seventy and used his Spanish education to distinguish himself as
a teacher and scientist. In fact, he impressed the Holy
Roman Emperor Otto the First so much that the ruler
hired Gerbert to tutor his son, Otto the Second. Gerbert
went on to run a cathedral school in Riim, near Paris,

(07:32):
and he became an extremely popular educator. Accounts from many
of Gerbert's colleagues and proteges were so glowing that it's
tempting to picture him as both an esteemed, erudite math
professor and a hip loves to sit on his chair
backwards youth pastor to inspire students. Gerbert reportedly infused lessons

(07:58):
with everything from rousing debates with famed philosophers to explanations
of fractions that involved showing how finger placement on a
simple instrument affected a string's vibrations. While teaching, Gerbert also
continued his own research. It would take too long to

(08:19):
cover all of his scientific achievements, so here are some highlights.
Gerbert arguably became Christian Europe's most famed mathematician during his lifetime.
He did that not so much by coming up with
entirely original ideas, but by applying concepts in resourceful ways.

(08:40):
For example, Gerbert became widely known for embracing Arabic numerals
and showcasing to Latin Europe how they made arithmetic far
easier than Roman numerals. A chief asset in that mission
was an upgraded abacus, As anyone who's ever to add, subtract, multiply,

(09:02):
or divide using the ancient Roman system can attest. Not
to mention any of us who have struggled to merely
decode Super Bowl numbers. Long strings of letters make large
figures unwieldy. By simplifying the counting pieces on an abacus
so they each held a single digit from one to nine,

(09:26):
Gerbert constructed a device that allowed him to perform calculations
with jaw dropping speed. He additionally introduced the concept of
zero and would reportedly show off by adding and multiplying
numbers into the octilians. Some writers and scientists point to

(09:47):
that analog calculator as one of the world's first computers.
In the field of music, Gerbert helped to fine tune
an instrument called a water His experimenting led him to
skillfully design a long tube that ingeniously created air pressure

(10:09):
by harnessing flowing water, which then allowed the organ's pipes
to sound without requiring the strenuous labor of operating bellows. Finally,
when it came to astronomy, Gerbert obsessively observed the skies
and became exceptionally proficient with several devices. One tool was

(10:30):
the armillary sphere, an intricate globe with attached rings that
charted the paths of planet and stars. In Gerbert's time,
the Earth was at the center of this contraption, with
other bodies orbiting around it. Despite that inaccurate model, Gerbert
was still able to use his customized armillary spheres to

(10:54):
closely track the trajectories of stars and engagingly display astronomy
concepts to his students. Gerbert's written correspondence also shows that
he was hugely interested in using astral observations to calculate time.
Rudimentary clocks like sundials had been around for thousands of years,

(11:17):
but Gerbert wanted to be able to more accurately track
time by day and night, and to find a more
comprehensive model to explain the fluctuations of daylight hours across
the seasons. Although none of Gerbert's favored timekeeping devices seemed
to have survived, references by a Prince bishop contemporary point

(11:42):
to Gerbert constructing an intricate nightclock that likely borrowed features
from ancient devices like astrolabes and noctoralabes. Some modern historians
have argued that Gerbert's linking of calculable time with heavenly
movements helped spawn the medieval field of mathematical astronomy in

(12:05):
Christian Europe, at the very least, given accounts that he
wowed kings and noble courts by predicting eclipses, Gerbert must
have made quite the party guest. Gerbert's rising fame created
additional employment opportunities, both within the Catholic Church and the
highest royal houses. The involved machinations are fairly complicated, but

(12:30):
in broad strokes, Gerbert kept up strong ties with the
Ottoman dynasty, to the point that he completed something of
a fully Roman hat trick by eventually mentoring Otto the Third.
Gerbert's third time educating a royal auto proved to be
quite the charm in terms of his own ecclesiastical career.

(12:52):
In nine hundred and ninety nine, Gerbert's close relationship with
the young emperor helped him become pope. He chose the
name Sylvester the Second, signaling his admiration for Pope Sylvester
the First, who had advised Emperor Constantine in the fourth century. Accordingly,

(13:12):
Gerbert hoped to help Otto the Third reunite Constantinople and
Rome into one realm and usher in a new golden
age built on law, tolerance, and learning. Unfortunately, for Gerbert
and arguably portions of Europe, fate or universal randomness, God

(13:35):
or the Devil had other plans before delving into Gerbert's
fraught time as pope and the ensuing macabre legends. It's
worth adding some quick context and clarification regarding a few
core elements. First, despite later scholars coining erroneous and reductive

(13:59):
term like the Dark Ages and the Enlightenment, Gerbert did
not live in a time of intellectual darkness. Numerous empires
and cultures across the globe continually innovated, and while some
of the European hubs in which Gerbert lived initially resisted

(14:20):
certain concepts, these realms were not wholly overwhelmed by ignorant,
superstitious thought. For example, Gerbert's written correspondence with other academic
show that they knew the Earth was round, whereas later
supposedly enlightened figures, including a few early humanists, continued to

(14:42):
spread theories that Earth was flat. In addition, it can
sometimes be difficult to avoid viewing the relationship between religion
and science through a modern lens, considering all the periods
of fraud history there. But in Gerbert's day, religion and
science weren't really thought of as separate fields or subjects

(15:05):
supported by warring communities were often the opposite was the case.
Many who served the church were also researchers who sought
scientific inquiry as a means to reveal and revel in
God's work. Finally, though some of the traditions and trappings
shown in recent papal news coverage and in films like

(15:29):
Conclave were still present in the early thousands, the position
of pope was different. Back then. Those doing the job
were tremendously hampered by coups, forced exiles, excommunications, and the
presence of the occasional anti popes. Numerous popes also simply

(15:51):
died soon into their reigns, which obviously was very inconvenient
for any of the long term ambitions they might have had.
In short, things were nuanced and complex, and so was Gerbert.
He sought to foster ties between kingdoms and kept up
a vast scholarly network, but he also had his own

(16:14):
ego and academic beliefs, and he could get prickly with
authority figures. Eventually he even had to flee Rome when
the nobility revolted. Then Emperor Otto the Third suddenly died,
which essentially destroyed Gerbert's hope of uniting East and West

(16:35):
to foster a new Golden Age. Through this time, Gerbert's
uncompromising leadership style and political alignments prompted his enemies to
occasionally brand him a dark sorcerer or the Antichrist. That said,
it's helpful to bear in mind that for centuries, if

(16:57):
not millennia, insults in that vain were commonly tossed at
those in power. Interestingly, the most salacious and lasting legends
about Gerbert surfaced after his death, and their iterations reveal
much about the predilections of their storytellers. For example, toward

(17:20):
the end of the eleventh century, decades after Gerbert's death,
a cardinal named Beno wanted to replace the sitting pope
who was trying to increase his papal powers. So Cardinal
Beno wrote a diatribe alleging that that pope had been
schooled by the dark wizard Gerbert and his disciples. In

(17:43):
his writing, Beno explained how Gerbert, who had come from
humble peasant beginnings, had found success by making a deal
with the devil. Similar notes of elitism and possible professional
jealousy seemed to waft from many other storytellers and Detractor's

(18:03):
accounts that also claim a diabolical pact as the only
possible explanation for the fame and wisdom that humbleborn Gerbert attained.
Twelfth century English writer Walter Mapp went further. He leaned
into the idea that Gerbert reached a sinful agreement with

(18:26):
a beautiful, all knowing demon named Maradiana. He also asserted
that Gerbert successfully repented at the end of his life,
thus proffering a parable that tracks with Mapp's background as
a bishop and iterant justice. According to some modern historians,

(18:48):
maps fanciful retelling of Gerbert's life also fits with Mapp's
preference for covering stories with fantastical, romantic, and even satirical elements.
Fun fact, Walter Mapp was reportedly one of the first
writers in England to record and start to popularize stories

(19:11):
of vampires. William of Malmsbury, an English monk and notable historian,
possibly added the most vivid detail of all in his
twelfth century chronicle of Gerbert's life. As some critics have asserted,
the style in which he describes Gerbert cavorting around in

(19:31):
Spain with beautiful women and Arab wizards sometimes reads more
like the folk tales in One thousand and One Nights
than that of a will substantiated biography. William also largely
promoted the legend about Gerbert using what he allegedly learned
in Muslim al Andalous to create his oracle statue head

(19:56):
in Rome. Once again, the ti and ideological leanings of
these records are significant following the rising cultural conflicts at
the heart of the Great Schism in ten fifty four
and the First Crusade in ten ninety six. William, linking

(20:16):
Gerbert's purported sins to knowledge he ostensibly learned from Spain's
Islamic Caliphate, mirrored a move by many influential Christian figures
to decry any wisdom gained from sources outside of Latin Europe.
There are also many graphic legends about Gerbert's death. Most

(20:40):
begin similarly with his sins catching up with him once
he attended Mass in the Church of the Holy Cross
of Jerusalem, which again was located in Rome. From there
the tall tales begin to branch out. Some claim he
fell ill and tried to re pent by asking his

(21:01):
cardinals to cut off his limbs, tongue, and or hands,
and then to scatter his pieces across the city. Others
claim that the devil showed up in the church to
personally beat and mutilate Gerbert. One impish iteration specified that

(21:22):
the devil gouged out Gerbert's eyeballs so that his demons
could play with them. Regardless of these rumored antics, Gerbert
was duly buried at the Saint John Lateran Cathedral in Rome.
Over the next few centuries, though additional myths abounded that

(21:42):
his marble tomb routinely sweated and that his bones rattled
to foretell the death of successive popes. When it comes
to more solidly corroborated historical evidence, most accounts do point
to Gerbert f falling ill after attending Mass at the

(22:03):
church known as Jerusalem on May third, one thousand and three,
and then dying shortly after on May twelfth. Historians are
unsure of the exact cause of death, but some maintain
that it was probably a disease such as malaria, which
had a track record of killing many rulers and popes

(22:24):
in Rome. As scientists later learned, those with Northern European
roots were especially susceptible since they lacked genetically transferred protection.
So once again, location was a critical element of Gerbert's life.
But while Gerbert's personal and professional battles were over, the

(22:48):
fight over his legacy would continue for centuries. To this day,
Gerbert remained the only professional mathematician to become pope, although coincidentally,
the very newly elected Pope Leo the fourteenth did get

(23:08):
a math degree. After Gerbert's death, certain partisan historians chose
to primarily call him Gerbert rather than Pope Sylvester the Second,
as an attempted rebuke. This actually seems fitting, however, since
he did not have the longest or most productive rain
as pope, and in my mind, calling him Gerbert feels

(23:31):
truer to his larger identity and legacy. So if you
thought that I was doing it as some larger political statement,
not really. In addition to helping to revolutionize the fields
of math and astronomy in Christian Europe, much of Gerbert's
lasting impact was as a teacher, since he instructed many

(23:52):
clergymen who went on to make important scientific discoveries and
contributions of their own. In more recent history, numerous mathematicians
and mathematical societies have honored Gerbert, and, especially during spikes
of widespread Islamophobia, praised his tolerant, collaborative nature and appreciation

(24:15):
for the work of Muslim intellectuals. Likewise, modern popes and
religious figures have lauded Gerbert's contributions as a scientist and
man of God, and in spite of all its supposed
sweating and rattling, Gerbert's preserved tombstone still hangs in the

(24:35):
latterin church. Gerbert's likeness has also lived on, since he
has been commemorated with everything from statues to frescoes to
postage stamps. The renowned scientist pope also inspired many works
of non fiction and fiction, including serving as a scheming

(24:55):
antagonist in Deborah Harkness's Discovery of Witches book and TV series.
Although Gerbert's life was harshly maligned for long periods, to
some degree the vilifying legends may still have helped to
spread his principles and immortalize his persona On a basic level.

(25:18):
The myths obviously provide an enticing entry point for those
unfamiliar with his life and work. In a broader and
more ironic way, we may actually have Gerbert's detractors to
think for the fact that historians are able to analyze
and credit many of his accomplishments. This is because in

(25:41):
fearing that many rivals might try to discredit him, the
forward thinking Gerbert intentionally preserved many of his letters in
the hopes of defending himself and his ideas. Fascinatingly, according
to modern scholarship, even the heightened myths told about Gerbert

(26:02):
showcase a clear progression of scientific understanding and acceptance. For instance,
William of Malmesbury's account of Gerbert's life delineates knowledge seen
as permissible and as impermissible. He claims that in Muslim Spain,
Gerbert learned the impermissible skills of necromancy and animal augury,

(26:25):
like seeing omens in bird's flight patterns. But William asserted
that Gerbert was specifically able to make his talking head
statue using knowledge gained by studying heavenly bodies. In his view,
celestial divination was permissible since astronomy was part of the

(26:49):
accepted quadrivium. In other words, William condemned Gerbert for learning
dark arts in Spain, but as opposed to earlier Detroy dictors,
he explained that Gerbert's predictive abilities via magic statue head
came from a more acceptable astral science rather than demonic magic,

(27:13):
whether that was intentional on William's part or not, that's
some progress. Accounts like that helped to further validate astronomy
in Latin Europe, thus setting the stage for subsequent breakthroughs
by the likes of Copernicus and Galileo. Arguably, the lengthy

(27:33):
fixation with Gerbert's prophetic head also stands out as an
intriguing example of humanity's fascination with artificial intelligence. Although posthumous
portrayals of Gerbert's clearly got absurd, Perhaps if the renowned
scientist had been able to gain knowledge of the future,

(27:56):
he would have been amused to know he would become
a sub object of science fiction, hundreds of years before
that term was widely used. Ultimately, the Catholic world may
never again see a scientist pope quite like Sylvester the Second,
and the science world may never again see a religious

(28:17):
mathematician of Gerbert's ilk. Funnily enough, while many bitterly equated
Gerbert's singular success with devilish deal making, a closer look
at his life reveals how much of his true power
came from his knack for collaborating and for sharing and inspiring.

(28:39):
From peasant to polymath to pope, the math obsessed Gerbert
of Aurlac never stopped finding strength in numbers. That's the
story of Gerbert, but stick around after a brief sponsor
break to hear another reason why any assumption that the

(29:00):
famed mathematician lived in a total dark age doesn't add
up when recalling milestones that tested a society's ability to
balance logic and superstition. Hy two K was a pretty

(29:24):
memorable one. The approach of the year two thousand prompted
fears about widespread computer errors and infrastructure issues, as well
as conspiracy theories and end of the world predictions. The
digital element of the millennial transition was new, the prognosticating

(29:44):
was not. Why one K saw plenty of similar panic,
or at least that's the narrative that many later writers pushed,
often trying to paint prior eras as more primitive and
ignorant than their own. Again, the accounts of many who
were alive in the lead up to the year one

(30:06):
thousand tells a more nuanced tale. There was still fear mongering.
One tenth century chronicler documented supposed signs of the nearing
apocalypse that included quote rains of blood wolves in churches
and unusually large whales. But the Christian world was not

(30:27):
entirely gripped by existential terror. For one thing, the Anno
Domini dating system was not yet universally accepted among record keepers,
which muddled rumors that the world would end one thousand
years after the birth of Jesus Christ. For another thing,
those who were following the ad calendar system and feeling

(30:52):
a wee bit anxious, they had a practical minded religious
leader to turn to. As a pope and scientist, Gerbert
was uniquely positioned to be a calm voice of reason,
and judging by many accounts, he was so. Perhaps the
modern and enlightened, yet occasionally angsty folks are not so

(31:17):
different from our millennia crossing counterparts, or at least those
who paid attention to their mathematician pope. Nobel Blood is
a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey.

(31:38):
Noble Blood is hosted by me Dana Schwartz, with additional
writing and research by Hannah Johnston, Hannaswick, Courtney Sender, Amy
Hit and Julia Milaney. The show is edited and produced
by Jesse Funk, with supervising producer rima il KLi and
executive producers Aaron Mankey, Trevor Young, and Matt Fret. For

(32:01):
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Advertise With Us

Host

Dana Schwartz

Dana Schwartz

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

Connect

© 2025 iHeartMedia, Inc.