Almost Famous In Depth: Ben Flajnik & Jake Pavelka

It's TWO TIMES THE PLEASURE.

Ben and Ashley go IN DEPTH with not one BUT TWO Bachelors… Ben Flajnik and Jake Pavelka. 

Since ABC isn't re-airing the infamous seasons with Ben and Jake's ...Ben and Ashley are doing it JUST FOR YOU.

Ben Flajnik relives that sad boat ride away on The Bachelorette and he tells all about the infamous skinny dipping scene.  Everyone will fall in love with Ben F again while listening to him go deep with Ben H. and Ashley I. and we allllll began to wonder ...how is this guy SINGLE?!??!?!

Then, Jake shares some behind the scenes stories about watching a contestant from his season fall in love with a producer.  

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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous in Depth.
This is actually my favorite time. In depth podcasts are
just like I feel like it actually where it's a
time where like kick my shoes off, I put my
feet up, I take a deep breath, and we just
sit down to see where these conversations go. And it's

(00:22):
time for another in depth in the Almost Famous podcast. Yeah,
so this podcast will be two in depth interviews. Um. First,
we're gonna start off with Ben flannic Um. He was
the one who ended up with Courtney Robertson in Bachelor's
Season sixteen. And then we'll be talking to Jake peal Vacca,
who ended up with Vienna in his season, which was

(00:45):
that season nine anyway, Um, both guys ended up with
the villains of the season. I don't think either of
these girls are villains in real life, but that's what
they were portrayed as. And um, let's get that conversation
started with Ben f the Ben that came before Mr Higgins.

(01:09):
Ben was a contestant on the seventh season of The Bachelorette,
where he proposed but unfortunately was said no to by Ashley.
I'm gonna say this wrong, I Conettie is Ashley Hebert. Nope,
Hubert Hubert, I knew it. He was later chosen as
the bachelor on the sixteenth season of The Bachelor, where

(01:30):
he proposed to Courtney Robertson. Well and less than one
year later, uh, that relationship ended. Ben is from Sonoma, California,
and as a winemaker, he's the founder of Iron Wines,
which is a wine making company that specializes in well,
I'm gonna ask him how you say this, but but
he's on now, Ben, what kind of wine do you

(01:53):
specialize in? What is this province? Call a provincial? Yeah,
it's a It's a region in France. Okay, welcome to
the almost from this podcast. We're pumped to sit down
with you. They this is how the all in depths work.
We really have no agenda for this. We just want
to sit down and catch up on where you're at
in life, where you've been in life, and maybe where
you're going as well. And we just Ashley and I

(02:13):
want to start this by saying thank you for taking
the time to sit down with us. Yeah, totally, man.
You know it's COVID, so I've got plenty of time,
don't we. All? Where are you recording right now. I'm
actually in Odessa, Texas, at um my best friend's house.
He was actually another contestant on The Bachelor, very close

(02:37):
touch over the last decade, Lucas Daniels, so I know
I would know his face. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So
you met on The Bachelor at you stayed friends, and
then you guys are like just hanging out together during COVID.
We're buds. Yeah. I've actually been out here a couple
of times during COVID. It's you know, there's not a

(02:57):
whole lot going on in West Texas, so it's it's
nice to be able to know. The comforts of Texas
are are nice. It's got the old office, and I like,
I like the people out of here. Yeah, definitely the uh.
I know this time has been crazy for all of us,
But you spend most of your time still in Sonoma,
correct I do, Yeah, that's that's home. Um. I actually

(03:20):
I lived in San Francisco for the last fourteen years
and um just just left like six weeks ago for good.
City has changed a lot, and I'm kind of on
this like eat, pray, love three to six month journey.
That's why I'm here and all eventually back in Sonoma.
But the only time will tell. So you don't have

(03:41):
a permanent residence right now, I don't have a permanent residence.
Look at that. It's cool. Time to catch you for
an I was gonna say, this is the perfect like
the perfect season just to sit back and process life together.
It feels really good, Like I've never been this happy.
It's nice not having you know, brick and mortar and
all all this stuff. I put it all in storage

(04:02):
and you know wherever I end up at all that's
that's where all go. So what inspired you to be
such a vagabond? Um? I just figured like rolling with
the chaos was the right move. Um, with so much
uncertainty and everything that's going on in the world, I
just figured I'd just I'd take my golf clubs and
uh one of my cars and kind of hit the road.

(04:26):
And I'm discovering a whole lot more about myself and
and the people that I surround myself with, and you
know where I'm at professionally and what I want to do.
So it's it's been a really really positive move. What
are some of the I mean, this is not where
we're playing on starting, but I think It's a beautiful
way to start, UM, because I mean, honestly, these in

(04:49):
depths are just to get to know you better. What
were some of the things that led up to the
decision to finally make this happen? I mean, I know
even last night. I'm gonna give you a little context
in my life now. Last night I had a bunch
of guys over to my house and reading a book
by John Eldridge called Get Your Life Back. And the
whole concept of the book is to eliminate the unnecessary

(05:11):
distractions so that you can pull back who you are,
who your childlike soul is, you know, how you can
bring joy back into life so you're not on the go.
And and it was interesting to sit around with eight
guys or four guys I guess last night and two
guys on virtually and talk about how many of us
have this desire to get something back that we don't
even know what it is and it and it feels

(05:32):
like if we were to have a little courage, we
would maybe take the step that you just took to
rediscover and to get away. So I'm really intrigued what
it is that made you say yes to this? UM? Honestly,
you know, I just just say San Francisco, and it
was a beautiful place and a wonderful city. It had

(05:53):
changed a lot, and I just it had changed so
much from the city that I originally loved, and I
think I think it was just kind of time to
to get away from from that geographic location. UM. And
then secondly, like professionally, UM, I closed a couple of
my my own companies, and I was just like, man,

(06:15):
maybe I should just like go and search and talk
to different people and be around like people I trust
and love the most and kind of see where I belong.
I think that's kind of the purpose of this, this
whole journey. UM. And so far, you know, I've been
able to like put some check marks on some things

(06:36):
and and feel inspired. UM. But my entrepreneurial spirit is back.
It was just like, UM, creating creating space for myself
physically and mentally has been really really helpful. And I
find myself, um, being more introspective and I'm reading more

(06:57):
like you've been just like with and again, like there's
so much craziness going on in the news and all
this stuff, and I try not to try not to
bother with any of it, and like find what's important
to me, and then I feel like at the end
of this journey, I'll I'll be somewhere that um, I
should be hopefully for you know, the duration of my
life or or at least a long time. So does

(07:20):
this mean that ben f is no longer a winemaker. No,
I still have a winery. Um yeah, I still and
I still have, you know, a number of my my
own projects and things like that. But um, there's you know,
I like probably the two of you are are entrepreneurs
and like exploring new different things, and so I feel

(07:43):
like just being stagnant in one place in my house
in San Francisco, I wasn't getting those those creative juices flowing,
and so I'm I'm finding it on the road. That's interesting.
I just told Jared Um we were outlying on the
beach in Newport, Rhode Island. That was like, I feel
like I get most creative and most in business mode

(08:05):
when I'm somewhere relaxing. It's it's very inspiring and you
just have to get out of like the location. Really yeah,
it's um, it's really important to kind of get out
of your your comfort zone. I think again, like surrounding
yourself with the right people I think is also really important. UM.

(08:27):
And I'm one of them, like, you know, a little
bit of a vagabond, like I like living in nice
hotels and like staying with friends when I can, um,
And so I'm very lucky. And then I you know,
we'll work you know, X amount of hours a day
and then try to be creative for for the rest
of the time. And things seem to be shaping up nicely.

(08:49):
Then this is awesome to uh, to hear it's it's
I'm excited for you. I think a lot of people
out there right now, especially during the season where there
is a lot of changes, um, and most people's lives,
I think they're gonna hear this in in at some
level relate, which is ideal for an in depth Ben.
Let's take a break here, and when we come back,

(09:10):
we're gonna start back at your childhood, uh and work
our way all the way up to when you're the
bachelor and now kind of digging in a little bit
further to where you're at in life today. So it
will take a break. We have been f who was
the bachelor on the in Depth podcast, so Ben, we

(09:38):
covered that you grew up in Sonoma, California. What was
your childhood like, let's talk about like your nuclear family. Yes, Sonoma,
you know, Sonoma's the best, Um it was. It was
nice that the little my little town was featured on
on both the shows that I was on, because it's
such a such a beautiful little community. It's the perfect

(10:00):
word for it. Everybody kind of knows each other, you know,
there's ten twelve thousand people that lived there. Wine culture. Um. My,
my parents were very dedicated to their their children, and
my mom still is um and so my upbringing was
very you know, suburban, but with a with a European twist.

(10:23):
You know, Synoma's very European in a sense. Um, it
was a really it was a really lovely childhood, really was. Now,
your family wasn't in winemaking from the beginning, right, No,
they weren't. My mom was a teacher, my dad worked
in like the medical field, and the wine stuff is

(10:44):
just like I feel like, if you are born and
raised in an area where it's it's around, you kind
of catch the bug. There was always wine on the table,
you know. My my dad was from originally like Eastern Europe,
and so you know there was I was probably had
my first class of wine when I was six or
at least like six, and it wasn't it wasn't a
big deal. Um. And the people that are in the
industry are like super supportive, especially being from a really

(11:07):
small town. UM. And so I learned a lot of
have really great mentors along the way. UM. People that
taught me taught me a ton and I'm still very
very close to those people today. And you have one sister,
one sister, Yeah, she's living in Marin she's just had
we have like our first of the next gen, UM, Josephine.

(11:29):
She's two and a half years old. She's really sweet.
She's that's like the main reason I cried when I
left for this little little journey. My sister still gives
me about about leaving, but um, she's kind of the
apple of everyone's eye and and has really made our
our family dynamic, super strong. My sister married one of

(11:49):
my best friends and he's a scratch golfer and he's
the best. So it's like we've got a good we've
got a good thing going on in northern California. And
you know, despite this like crazy journey that I'm you know,
ultimately I will probably end up back in the Bay
Area at some point. Um. You know, I'm just like,
you know, I'm still single and so like I buy

(12:09):
a house, so, you know, just a lot of things
going on. You know. If this was I've learned my lesson.
But when Harrison comes on this podcast, uh, we end
up talking golf for like five to ten minutes every time,
and our listeners, I don't think love it. So if
if this was any other podcast, I would love to
dig into the golf game a little bit. But for

(12:33):
the sake of and it's everything inside of me just
wants to talk to you about it. But for the
sake of this show, we're gonna we're not gonna get
into it. Um. So, Ben, you just mentioned it. But
you know, Sonoma has this this this wine culture around it.
You enter into the business, just can you give all

(12:55):
of us a perspective of how big your vineyard is
and um and and how much of your life that
takes up now? Yeah, so it used to be a
whole lot more so I used to I started a
winery back in two thousand and eight with a childhood buddy.
We we built that brand up for a few years
and then you know, cut to Bachelorette and Bachelor and

(13:16):
we sold you know, exponentially more cases. That wasn't the
reason for me going on the show, but it was
obviously a very nice benefit. Um. So we were able
to to sell those brands to a larger company. I
was like, I'm done. I'm out to no more winemaking
because it's a really, really difficult business. Although it's really fun,
it's it's it's quite challenging to to make a buck um.

(13:38):
So we were lucky. I started making for Net and
then I started a new line of wines about five
years ago when my buddy called me, He's like, I've
got some extra grenoche ling around. My ex girlfriend at
the time was a big fan of Rose, so I
was like, screw it. I'll just make some Rose for fun.
And now I'm like back into the wine business, which

(13:58):
I don't really you know, I love it, but like
I didn't plan on being back into it again, and
so I I focus primarily on on rose. Um. I
don't own any vineyards at this time. I just like
contract all my fruit. I bring it in, I crushed it,
we make it and it's ready in five six months
and it's you know, it's it's good stuff and it's
delicious and rose's appropriate for this time of year or

(14:20):
anytime year really. But what I love about the the
category is that people are always down to drink more
than one bottle, which makes makes it a fun time.
So you definitely didn't plan when you went to college
and graduated with a bachelor's degree in music production to
do wine. What were you thinking about doing initially? Well,

(14:41):
funny enough, like I was, I wasn't brewing in college.
So my my job. I went to University of Arizona.
I was the assistant brewmaster at this brewery UM during college,
which was the best job ever. So I I loved like,
I loved fermentation. I love being able to, you know,
take these things and then create this, this tangible product
that people would be like, well made this, This is amazing.
And I loved that that a list of response from people,

(15:04):
um when you when you handed him that that gift.
That thing was before I was even like selling stuff, right,
and that made me feel really because someone else, Scott,
they found value in it. That was the important part.
Now let's flash forward then, because at some point during
this the Bachelor at calls and uh yeah, I mean

(15:27):
I remember your season because you had you did it
and many do. But you had a lot going on
outside of being on the Bachelor at and being the Bachelor.
But it obviously, as you just mentioned it, it affects
all of our lives so much. I mean, you know,
changes a ton. How did the process work leading up
to getting on the show. My sister signed me up

(15:48):
and um so I had another company at the time,
I was doing UM digital marketing. I've always been kind
of in tech and out in and out of out
of that. But myself and the producers decided to pick
Winemaking as my my title because it's more romantic, but
it takes it takes fun wine, you know. So we

(16:10):
we we laid off that and so I remember being
in in my office in UM in San Diego and
it was kind of a joke, but I just kept
kind of going through the casting process and one day
they called me like, we'd love you to come on
the Bachelorette. And I remember being on the phone and
like opened up my office store and be like, hey, Brad,
I made it and should I do it? And he goes, yeah, bro,

(16:30):
do it like that was really it. And I'm sure
I don't know what you're I don't know what your
casting experience was like, but like we had to there
was some in person stuff, but we had to make
d d ds, remember DVDs. We had to film it
and like put it down and like send it in
the mail. I did that too. I think I was
probably like the last cycle to have to set Yeah. Yeah,

(16:52):
US would probably be the last cycle that sent it
in like with a physical disk. Yeah, and uh then
it was kind of was off to the races. Um.
I loved. I loved my time on The Bachelorette. I
loved it. It felt like it felt like a great
vacation to me. Unfortunately, like I had a lot of
there were a lot of good dudes on the show,

(17:13):
as I'm sure both of you made lots of friends
from the franchise. UM, and so I hold those those
relationships very near and dear to my heart. Obviously, sitting
in West Texas, my buddy's always like, you really want
to come out to Odessa. Huh um. But but you know,
in comparison to like being you know the guy, um,
which I still consider to be like my my hardest

(17:36):
project yet. It was so so difficult, and then you know,
well we're going to get into that. But I want
to know what kind of relationships you were in before
you you said yes to the Bachelor. How many serious ones,
anything that was like truly life altering. Um. Yeah, I
had my are broken in high school. Uh, there was
this girl who like didn't we were very close friends.

(17:58):
She didn't pay your close friends, but like she ended
up like dating this other dude and I was just
totally crushed. Um. And then college the same thing. I
had this this girl that I loved and she broke
up with me because I was, you know, graduating, and
she's like, I just want to enjoy my last year.
And then she started dating this dude like two months

(18:19):
later and I was like no. Um. And then after
after that, I was like single for a while. I
did the single thing for a long time. Um, you know,
a bunch of three month things in there. My longest
relationship was after the Bachelor. I was in a relationship
for about four years. Would be the same girl. Um.
But but yeah, it's not not that I'm like opposed

(18:39):
to being in a relationship by any means. I like it,
But um, my life is you've got to be like agile,
um and flexible because I'm I like being here, there
and everywhere. Um. How how old were you when you
got on the bachelort Um. I think I was twenty

(19:00):
twenty eight, Yeah, something like that. Yeah, I think I
remember that too. All right, so let's let's start out
with the Bachelorette. I mean, what was your experience on
that first night? First night? You know, it's funny I I, um,
I remember, well, you look back on it now and
like the fashion is so different, right, It's like, man,

(19:20):
why did you wear that soup? I keep telling Ben
this watching to go to episodes, I'm like, my biggest
takeaway from this episode was the fashion is horrendous. Everything
looks so cheap, so gaudy. It's incredible. And like, I
remember the stute that I wore. I got in Paris
at like Hugo Boss and it was like tailored to
me and I thought it looked great. Then I like

(19:41):
I went back and watched it and I was like,
that's kind of an ill fitted suit. Um, But the
first night was was nerve racking. I actually ended up
like I had a lot of anxiety through the Bachelorette
I was not really used to, um, the environment, being
told what to do UM a lot of the time,

(20:06):
at least, not having like the freedoms. I shouldn't say
like being told what to do because they don't they
don't really do. But it's it's the freedoms that that
I am really really missed. UM. So, like you know,
I found I found solace in in UM my buddy
Lucas and my buddy Constantine along the way and we
got to we got to travel with some really really

(20:27):
awesome places. UM. It was. It was really fun. They
put you up in beautiful hotels. I love nice hotels,
like I mentioned before, UM and Ashley. I was intrigued
with Ashley earlier on Actually I liked her UM and
I liked it she paid attention to me at like
at like an earlier stage. So I felt like, maybe,
you know, maybe there's a shot here. UM. So that

(20:49):
made me feel pretty good. Did you ever imagine being
final too on that one? On that first not a
million years? And it's funny I talked to, you know,
some of the producers that I that I had, Ellen
and Peter, UM, just the best of the best, you know,
the best of the best I love those guys. Um
and uh they they I think they said like they

(21:11):
didn't they didn't expect me to make it through the
first night and let alone. Yeah, why would they say that.
I don't know. I mean, like, you know, there's a
certain caliber of person that gets or at least on
my season, that was like put on the show and
they're like, no, this guy has no chance, and so
um yeah, like you know, I still remember making it

(21:35):
to the end and really being like floored at what happened,
because that was It's it's interesting to watch back and now,
like I I will laugh every time, like I see
a clip or something, but like at the time, it
was just it was so embarrassing. It was so so bad.
If it makes you feel any better. Nick Val was

(21:56):
also predicted by the bat by the producers not to
go very far. All right. You know that's interesting because
I remember this now that you're talking. Alan, Actually, during
my time on The Bachelor had compared me to you
and so there our initial response to like being in

(22:16):
that like environment was very similar. So like not scared
of it yet anxious. Um was not reserved like we
put walls up, but more like I got really tired
because I was constantly like in my head, nervous, anxious,
unable to process the environment around me quick enough to
like stay in tune with it. But over time, for

(22:40):
whatever reason, somehow, you know, it gets more comfortable, but
it never feels like it never feels normal. It never
feels like some really embrace it and can just like
really step into it. And And I remember Alan looking at
me and saying, you're handling this very similar to the
bend before you interesting, Well, do you know, I think
that's a testier character. Ben Higgins nice, just a nice

(23:04):
guy buddy. And then there's there's they cast for you know,
all different reasons, but um, you know like that, I
feel like the nice, normal people with with stuff going
on at home probably process it very differently than those
that are you know, they're looking for Instagram followers or
something like that. That's that's my guess. Anyway, Yeah, it was.

(23:26):
It's a weird season, and for you, it led up
to um a final proposal. You know, at the very
end of of your time on the Bachelort, you did
get down on one knee. Uh. Looking back now, you
know everybody has very similar questions. Did you mean it
do you regret it, were you sad? I'm gonna ask
those same questions, Um, But what do you remember about

(23:47):
that moment? You know, I remember being like very confident
in my decision. UM. I remember, um thinking that this
was it and I was really excited about it. I
do I still do to day, do not regret doing that.
It felt right in the time. And I don't know
if it's because of like the bubble that you're in
or whatever it is. But UM, it's weird because when

(24:11):
she said and she said said to effectively no, UM,
I was really quite angry. UM. I remember this. I
was quite angry because I felt like I felt like
I had been like almost tricked a little bit. Um.
And I don't I don't blame you know, the production
by any means, but you know, it was it was

(24:34):
part of it was just the whole thing. I just
felt tricked and I was mad and I was like,
this doesn't make any sense, and there was and like
in that moment, what did I say? I said something
like the most poignant thing that like I could ever
have come up with. Good things don't end unless stand badly.
And I watched that like a number of years ago
and I was like, good for you, buddy, like that,

(24:55):
that's brilliant. You said that, just like atn't out of nowhere,
you just go bam. Good things don't end unless they
end badly. Yeah, while I'm like piste off and unsure
of like everything. Um but again, like I don't regret it,
but I do remember when they put me on that

(25:16):
little tin boat and sent me out to see Remember,
I remember feeling it was brutal. I remember feeling, um
like a little bit of sense of relief, honestly, um
where like maybe this was maybe this was the end.
Granted it was embarrassing, but you know, at least I
at least I I went out honest to myself and

(25:38):
I meant what I did, and so um, it was
an accomplishment, I suppose. M. Yeah, you're the only final
two that had like a weird I'm sorry this is
the wrong word because it is, but like pathetic leaving
experience where they put you on a boat like they
wouldn't I think that fans wouldn't like that today. They

(26:01):
wouldn't be okay with that, Like it's already a very
embarrassing moment to get on your knee. Then you're gonna
go put him in a little a little tin boat
with like the sea had swells, and Allen was in
the front of the boat and I'm just there and
you know, and my hair looks probably terrible. I don't
know what was going on in my hair, but I
apologize to everyone in advance for it just wouldn't let

(26:23):
me work. Your hair looks great now. It looks so
good right now. If I just let me wet, it
would have been a lot better. Um, but you know
it was. It was just terrible styling all around. There's
this great meme that my Boddy's still send me, like,
you know, every year on my birthday and it's like
me and cartoon Francine from art Francine. I'm just going
to bring this up. Is that it's just perfect. Is

(26:45):
that it's perfect? Okay, great? Hard anyway, it's Francine from Arthur. Guys,
definitely google it. If Ben is okay with this totally,
There's plenty of memes out there. It's it's it's hilarious. Still,
I still it's hey, you've made it once. You have
a mean, totally a very viral meme. But then, uh,

(27:08):
before we we take one more break, and we we
didn enter into your time as the bachelor. UM on
the boat. Were you heartbroken? Did you expect what was
to come? Uh? No, I did. I didn't expect what
was to come. I think I was just stunned in
that moment. I remember being on the airplane going going

(27:29):
home and I cried. I do I do remember that. Um.
So there there there was real raw emotion. And then
after like that big kind of exhale and all those tears. Um.
I did feel some relief. Um Um. I didn't get
a whole lot of closure around all of it, but
like you know, it all worked out as well as

(27:50):
it got. How long do you think the heartbreak lasted for?
And would you consider one of your great heartbreaks along
with the other two? Um no, I you know, honestly,
like I wouldn't put it up with the other two.
It was. It was different because because of the environment
and everything that was going on. UM, you know, it

(28:12):
was definitely it was definitely heartbreak. It was difficult, but
it wasn't like that young puppy love that you you
know that you experience. I was definitely more weathered in
the department of rejection in relationships by that point. Were
you friends with JP? Yeah, and still am. JP's a

(28:33):
great dude. He's a good angler, and he's a big
fan of mollusks, so we share a love of oysters
and clams and all that good stuff. He's a good guy.
That's how I picked my friends. Hey, Ben, there is
still more to come. Your story is not even halfway
completed yet. We'll be back with Ben f on the

(28:55):
Almost Famous In Depth podcast. Okay, Ben, So let's talk
about when they first asked you to be the Bachelor.
How many months was it after you got done by Ashley?

(29:15):
Did you feel stoked or a little bit weary? Um?
Good question. It was. I remember where I was. I was.
I was at the winery, and it was like two weeks,
like two weeks later. Um, two weeks. It was really
really quick. Uh. And I told him I would, you know,
give him a few days. I was coming into harvest,

(29:37):
so I was gonna be busy making wine, um crystals.
Was also very concerned about it being harvest season. Oh yeah, yeah,
that's right, that's farmer boys. Um. And I was more
concerned with, like I suppose, like how my mom would

(29:58):
take it all, because she, you know, she had a
hard time with me being on television the first time,
and this was a very very different, different thing. UM.
But I think I deliberated for maybe forty eight hours,
and I was like this, I'm sure why not? Like
I had, I had a ton of fun on on
the Bachelorette, UM and I and I and I enjoyed

(30:19):
it immensely really despite the outcome. But so it was
it was pretty quick. What about it? Did your mom? Like?
What was she most hesitant on? I think just like
the um intrusion into family UM, and like our our story.
You know that my dad passed away when I was
twenty four, and so that was a big storyline. UM.

(30:42):
And I'm sure it was like hard for my mom
to relive as it was for all of us. UM.
But honestly, like I've said this a lot when I
was on the Bachelorette, you know, in speaking into that
that that camera and like telling your story and like
being super authentic, I I don't like healed big time

(31:02):
around my my dad's passing. I was able to like
talk through it. And you know, I watched those episodes
years ago and I see this like this kid kind
of like getting over it and and like coming to
terms with it and like talking through it, and it
was like it was super cathartic and and Allan was
a big part of that. He asked the right questions

(31:22):
and I'm thankful for that that period of my life.
H it is therapy for sure. Was that your first
experience of therapy in a very non traditional way? Yeah, yeah,
you have the nail on the head. It can't be
very therapeutic if you if you embrace it, um, and
you're willing to like you know, show your true colors.
I think that, I think you're spot on. I Uh,

(31:44):
We've we've had many guests now in depth podcasts and um,
one of the themes I think most would say if
if they get asked a question or just that it
comes up that their time on the show, good or bad,
you know, no matter how it went for them, that
no matter what, the time on the show was therapeutic
or there was growth within it. And it leads Ashley

(32:06):
and I we say it now quite often that we
have this theory that if you go on the show,
if you want it to be a grown experience. It
is one of the most forced environments to that I've
ever been in. That's allowed me to grow as much
as I did during that time. I would never be
the man I am today without the show. I a
great and I can tell you that even if Jared
wasn't part of the show, that I would in no

(32:28):
way be married right now because it really just shot
me into a growth spurt, especially when it came to
love relationship and racial relationships and vulnerability. Yeah, when you
ever like actually talking about that stuff that deep exactly
ever well awkward. I pay somebody to have me talk
to him about it these days. Um Um been a

(32:54):
question I always love to ask bachelor's when you're asked
me the Bachelor, It's exciting, it's fun, right, we just
said it like it's like why not? And then you
get there on night one, you get to the mansion
and you start meeting the people, you know, the founders
of the show and Chris Harrison, and you start getting prepped.
If you could flash back to that moment, what what
what did you feel like standing there knowing that within

(33:16):
an hour you're gonna be walking out a driveway as
the Bachelor. Man? Um, that was pretty it was pretty intense,
you know, And I'm I'm a pretty mellow dude. Um,
and I you know, obviously anxiety is is a is
a big part of it. Um when you're just I
think even like in the beginning of like kind of

(33:37):
clammed up a little bit. You're just it's it's so
wild and so big because on that night, there's more
people around than the rest of you know, the production,
if you will. So there's you know, those cranes and
cameras rolling around and all this stuff. And you're used
to being a contestant where it's it's micro. But but
now you're the guy. Now you're the lead. Now you
gotta carry this thing. Um. And it was really for me,

(34:00):
it was about, um, I guess showing some restraint um
in the beginning just uh it was shot. It was
my goals were like to show a little bit of
restraint until I felt comfortable, um, and also make all
of the women feel as humanly comfortable as possible. That's
that's the job of the main person. In my honest opinion.

(34:24):
That's awesome. It's a weird night. That's a weird night,
and it's a long night. It's such a long Yeah,
you go from zero to a hundred, and I think
that's you know, you go from being asked and being
decided to all of a sudden being in the environment
and then having like a fourteen hour day as the bachelor,

(34:45):
knowing that every second your your voice is being recorded,
even when you're falling asleep within conversations. So I get it.
And uh, and it's just always intriguing for me to
hear you know, people like you who step into that
and how you how you processed it. So who knows,
maybe a future bachelor's listening right now. Yeah, good luck,

(35:10):
that's cool. I mean, yeah, maybe Matt is listening. Maybe
some young boy out there who's like fifteen, and the
show is going to be around for the next fifty's.
It's a great show. It's a great production. Like, I
get it, I don't. I don't think the end. Let's
talk about Courtney. Um, did she get your first impression Rose?

(35:30):
Forgive me for not remembering that. No, my first impression
Rose went to a girl named Lindsay. Lindsay was your
own up. Um, Lundsy was my runner up. That's correct. Yeah,
when he rode in on a horse, and Lindsey was
great and and still is great. We'll chat every now
again from time to time. Courtney. Um, Courtney was Yeah.

(35:55):
I mean everyone was beautiful and she she walks. I
think she was the last one to come out of
the limo. Courtney was um and she exuded a different
kind of confidence she had, which I which I really liked. Um.
She she knew who she was in that moment and
had clearly had been around cameras, being a model and all.

(36:16):
So I was naturally drawn to that confidence. Now that
we're I mean, how many years are we eight, nine
years or moved? Is there a girl from your bunch
or a couple of girls that you look back and
maybe wonder what if or when you think about your
season they kind of like stand out to you besides
Lindsay and Courtney. Um, that's a really good question. There

(36:40):
was I think it was the number the third girl,
Nikki from Texas, Nicky Sterling. I believe her name is
um and she she like disappeared from like the face
of the earth. And I've like, not that I'm like
in search of Nikki Sterling, but I always wanted to
reach out to her and be like, like thank you

(37:00):
for being so sweet and so nice. I just always
wanted to, you know, let her know how much like
I appreciated her being around. Um, but as far as
being in a ship with with anyone else, um, that's
too tough to say. Because I was you know, I
was very much um you know, Courtney was was my
pick and I was very much okay with that. Well,

(37:25):
Nicky Sterling, if you're listening, reach out to Ben and
maybe we'd have another Peter and Kelly situation on our heads. Sorry,
I'm just trying to match me. Uh, Ben, I wanted
to dig in a little bit to the Courtney relationship
if you don't mind um it. Obviously, you know, there

(37:46):
were storylines that came out during the show. Uh. You know,
we have our iconic benef moments that still flash up
on screens during you know, Bachelor recaps and especially now
the Goat is airing. But one of the things that
you nquecas we were kind of prepping for this is
your your relationship with Courtney was unique within the Bachelor
franchise because you were together, you then broke up, but

(38:08):
then you got back together again, showing that there was
like a pull towards each other in that season of
your life. What was going on, you know, it was
it was it was really hard to kind of stand
by Courtney and at that time, because when the show
was airing, it was just it was just mad madness.

(38:30):
Like obviously it wasn't shown in like a great light
for her, and I was like, who is this person?
And I was really confused. So we, um, we called
it off like while the show was airing, and um,
we started chatting again. You know, I think I think
they're like, let's just take a break kind of thing. Um.
I don't even remember if we broke up a break,

(38:52):
but we we definitely weren't together, and we started to
kind of like rekindle and chat again before taping me
after the in a Rose and things were things were
pretty good for a while. Actually, um, you know after
that moment after we reconciled because we had gone through
this this crazy experience together and you know, there was

(39:12):
there was love there for sure. Um. But and ultimately
the end it kind of ran its course. I personally
never thought that Courtney was nearly as a villainous as
they put her across, even when I was just a
fan watching, I was like, I think this is a
girl who is being silly and sarcastic, and she was

(39:33):
just having fun in the interview room, and she didn't
really meet any harm. She was just like trying to
be entertaining and do you do you feel like that
is what the case was. But she gave them such
good content to make it look evil with like music
and all that stuff. I totally agree with you. It's
funny because you know, when your producers reached out to

(39:54):
me for this thing, like, I haven't watched my season
and its entirety ever, but I was. And we in
San Diego with with a buddy and he's like, let's
let's watch it. We watched the first four episodes and
I found myself just laughing at Courtney, and I'm like,
good for you, girl, Like go go for it, you know.
Um yeah, yeah, as you know, watching those, I'm like,

(40:15):
all right, I get it. And and she she is
quite funny and she's and she's quite nice and quite lovely. Um,
but she she got just she kind of got a
raw deal when the that that time in your relationship
that you know, the show and the fans were reacting
natively to Courtney and you were by her side as
her fiance at the time and trying to make a

(40:35):
relationship work. How difficult was it to stand by her.
So I mean, obviously it ended it, but was it
just it was it tearing you up to and why
did it ultimately decide to to say goodbye for a bit? Yeah,
you know it was It was hard for me because
I felt like I always had had like a good

(40:57):
vibe and people you know, respected respected me, and so
you know, standing by this this villain was was really
hard for me. And you know, you know, all honesty,
I probably just kind of chickened out a little bit.
I was like, I just I can't. I can't deal
with this. I'm not I'm not used to this. Um.
And I was on I was on the road a lot.
I was like doing a ton of you know, appearances

(41:18):
and like bottle signings for my wines all over the
country and so like people were constantly coming up to
me and I'm you know, asking me to sign these
like US Weekly magazines that were like just not nice,
and I was like, this is brutal, man, Like, that's
kind of why I disappeared from the whole franchise. I
was like, I don't, I don't know if I can
handle the negativity. Um. And sometimes I think about that

(41:41):
if that was a mistake or not, because there are
a lot of you know, really really nice people that
have come out of this franchise. Um, I'm just you know,
one of the old old souls. Can you can you
speak about your confusion? Like you're with the girl who
seems super lovely and that you you love, and then
on the TV she's coming across totally different. How did
you figure out which one was the real her? Yeah?

(42:04):
That that was hard too. I think I think for me,
I was frustrated because I was like, like, how could
you be so stupid? Like this is a TV show?
Like how don't you watched this before? Like why wouldn't
you have acted differently? That kind of thing. So for me,
I think it was more like a disappointment. Um, that's
what it was. How was she handling it in? Um? Not? Well?
It was rough on her, man, she got she got

(42:26):
um heat from everywhere. It was And you know, for
for me to be who I've been in a relationship
with that person, you know, I'm sure she expected me
to you know, stand by her side, and I didn't. Um,
And so that's you know, that's how me. I remember
being in the interview room a couple of times myself
and just being in a sassy mood and thinking I'm

(42:47):
gonna I'm channeling Courtney. I'm gonna like eat this freaking rose.
I'm gonna twirl it around and be super obnoxious and
say obnoxious things. And it never was a good idea.
All right, yeah are you? Are you guys communicated all today?
I mean there's some big updates in Courtney's life. Do

(43:09):
you guys keep in touch? Yeah? We you know, she
she wrote this book a number of years ago, and
like we didn't speak for five plus years after that
thing because there was you know, that's one story and
it's pretty not cool. Um, we reconciled a few years
ago and um we actually ended up um meeting up

(43:31):
over New Year's for a few days in Santa Barbara
just to see if, like, hey, is there, like you know,
we went through this thing together, is like, is there
anything there now that we've like buried the patchet? And
I think we both decided that, like, you know, there wasn't,
but there's there's still mutual respect. I'm I congratulated her
on her baby. She still talks to my sister a lot,

(43:52):
and they're still very close. So there's you know there's
no ill will or hard feelings. I'm really happy for
her and and her new baby and and um fiance
whatever he is. Um. Her book is probably the most
delicious bachelor book there is. I talk about how it
helps me with casting a lot because she goes into
the nitty gritty there. What was it about the book

(44:14):
that really irked you? So? I never read it, but
I remember just hearing like bits and pieces. Um. The
part that irked me is that, like she talked about
my mom, which I didn't think it was very cool. Um.
Outside of that, you know, everything else was if you
most of the mom doesn't really matter. Yeah, that's pretty bad. Mom.

(44:34):
It's fine you can talk about me like I've been
in the public eye. Like I get it, But moms
are off limits. Man, mm hmmm, sure are the U.
I know our fans before we move on here, I
know every listening UH is going to freak out if
we don't if if if one of us isn't asked
this question. So one of the most iconic moments in

(44:56):
your season is the ocean scene where you skinny dipped
into the ocean. Um, how in the world? And so
this is because I've now done this. How in the
world as a man who is reserved like yourself, who
is a little anxious about this experience, how do you
get to a mindset We're like, screw it, I'm gonna
naked on national TV and I'm going to the ocean.

(45:20):
I mean, if you were on a beach in Puerto
Rico and some babe asked you to go skinny dipping,
wouldn't you do the same thing. That's kind of like
it's kind of a no brainer. Was that the thought process? Like, hey,
come on, yeah, I mean, go for it, man, Like
this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Um, it's
funny that I forgot about the skinny to being a

(45:40):
portion of it. But I think there was like an
uncensored cut to you could like see our butts and
stuff way back. Question was it just a sexy time
or was it sexy time? I'll leave that up to
the imagination, but you know, you're it's a question for
a long time. Configure figure that one out. That's why

(46:01):
nobody's forgotten about it. Nobody's forgotten about that, but you
might have forgot about it. Nobody else has. That's good
to know after you, after you after you and Courtney
broke up, but Courtney found comfort in the arms of
another Bachelor Ari lion Dyke. Was that weird seeing her
date somebody else from the franchise? Quickly? Yeah? I was

(46:22):
that was That was tough because we were buds um
for for a moment there. Um, But they you know,
they lived in the same area and they were probably
probably had gone through similar experiences. You know, it's all
water under the bridge, But I do remember that being
being kind of difficult at the time. It would be yeah,

(46:43):
it would be, it would it would really hurt uh
to see that, especially within the franchise. Um, Ben. We
actually always has this fun game at the very end
of the podcast of these in depths where we just
rapid firely ask you questions. But before we getting the that,
we I, do you really want to hear where you're
at today? Uh? We we last saw you on The Bachelor.

(47:05):
We know you how that story ended. Are you dating now? Um?
Are you pursuing anybody? Uh? Yeah, you know, dating is
a little tough when you're doing an eat, pray love thing. Um. Yeah,
there's a you know, there's there's no one in particular
that that Um, I'm dating at the momentum again, like

(47:25):
I'm open to it, um, but you know, for now,
I think it's more about just kind of re centering
and finding my myself again and like figuring out a
good place for me to be in so that someone
can fit nicely into my life. Um. I think that's
probably probably the right answer there. But now, still single man,

(47:49):
just you know, still yeah, yeah, hey, it's it's a
it's a wild world and I'm sure life is going
to take you in a great direction here, especially with
the intention that you're putting to it. And last time
I saw a headline from benef which wasn't that long ago,
I feel is there there was a rumor being spread
that you were seeing Chris Jenner. Um. To be honest

(48:15):
about it, like I remember, there was just so much
rumor around it, but we never really got an answer.
I don't think anyone really got an answer. It's interesting
that the old Christian Jenner. It is. So I did
Chris talk show, um whatever you know, you're rafter or
whatever it was, and remember she was like, yeah, if
you're ever in the area, like let me know, um,

(48:35):
when we grabbed dinner or something like that, and I
was like great. So I took her phone number and
I ended up uh calling her or texting or something.
I was like, I'm in the area whatever the house,
like I met the whole family, met Kanye. Um, oh
my god. It was crazy. And I remember I remembered
in the afternoon and like they had the little baby.
North was just like in a little Bastoneta on the

(48:57):
you know, the island in there and everyone's hanging out,
like these people are really nice and it's great. Um.
Chris Jenner and I never never dated by any means.
I was working on a tech product that I thought
could be beneficial to like their brands and things like that.
So we had, you know, in a few business dinners.
My business partner was at, you know, half of them, Um.

(49:19):
But I have nothing but respect for that family and
like the amount of attention they have to go through
compared to what we do, and how they handle it,
and how nice they were to me for just you know,
intruding in their in their life for a few weeks.
Um was was really they were really lovely. I do
love the fact that when people who have actually had

(49:41):
like nice have had real encounters with the Kardashians, like
gone over to their house and stuff. They always say
that they were like so lovely and so warm and
down to earth, and I love hearing that because obviously
they're one of my favorite public families. Um, you may
have not dated Chris, but did you ever kiss her? No, Chris,
And that's fine. But you know, they asked a question. Okay,

(50:03):
I knew you were I knew you were thinking it.
Actually I knew in your head. You're like, I just
want to get as much information on the Kardashians right
now as possible, but I have to ask those questions,
especially since there was an episode of The Kardashians where
she went up to Ben's winery and she like hung
out for the weekend. Tell us about that experience. Came
up with Jonathan. They were up there for a Kanye concert,

(50:25):
so they came up and like filmed at my winery.
And I haven't thought about this in so long. This
is actually a really great story. And so after we
were shooting, You're like, do you want to come to
the Kanye show, which was in Pokland, And I was like, hell, yes,
I do, do see Kanye. And we had obviously, you know,
the best seats in the house and I'm backstage and
Kanye comes off and I met him, you know, a

(50:45):
couple of weeks prior, and he turns to me and
he goes, what do you think of the show? I
was like, what do you care? Like? Ye, it was great, man,
that's so cool. That was pretty cool knowing him as
little as you do, Like, is it sad to see

(51:06):
just the way that he's had this sort of like
you know, momentum publicly. Yeah, and you know, I don't
I don't know the whole the whole story or anything,
but at any time, like anyone's dealing with mental health
issues and stuff, it's not cool to not cool to
poke fun. Um, That's what I'm assuming is is probably
going on. Especially nice they all were to me. Um.
I hope that they managed to navigate the situation. According

(51:31):
Ben f the best critic that Kanye has ever asked for. Yeah,
that's so good man. Um, Ben, we really appreciate your
time with us. It's not quite time to say goodbody yet, though.
We're gonna take one last break and when we come back,
Ashley is going to do what she does. She has

(51:52):
a lot of things best and well, but this is
like one of my favorite moments of every end. We'll
be back with Ben f and Ashley uh Will will
host the Rapid Fire around Um during this in depth
almost famous podcast. We're back. I'm so excited for this

(52:21):
rapid Fire because I feel like you have given me
so much too um to work off of in this interview.
So it's gonna be very personal to you. Are you
ready in this eat prey love journey that you're on.
What are you eating that fills your soul? Pizza? Lots

(52:41):
of pizza, pizza because it's the best thing on the road. Pizza. Okay, amazing.
Is there a certain spot that people should go in
Texas or in San Francisco? I must um, my favorite
b area pizza is probably Pizza Hacker. It's in San Francisco,
d in Marin tho enough. I have to ask the

(53:06):
Kardashian that you would most like to take on a
date if she were single or in another lifetime. Um,
probably Kim because she was the nicest to me, She
was the most welcoming. Yeah, okay, cool, oh my Kim. Um.
You tweeted recently that you love Taylor Swift. You said,

(53:28):
quote Taylor Swift, You're the best. So what's your favorite
song on folklore? Um, boy, she's I've had a thing
for her even when she was doing that early country stuff.
The one probably my favorite. It's just she's just great,
the whole the whole album's great. Is that safe to say?

(53:51):
It's safe to say that Taylor Swift is your celebrity crush. Um? Yeah,
her and Kristen Wigg because Christen Wiggs hilarious and okay,
m that's a good duo. That would be a really
fun triple date. Right, let's go too on one with

(54:11):
christ and Wig and Taylor Swift. Wow, that would be amazing. Ok,
let me let me know if you can pull it
out one off please. You're single? So what is your
most like your must have quality in a lady? Um,
independence is probably numero uno. Um. I like, I like

(54:34):
a woman that I can like take to a you know,
galla or a party or something like that and you
can do their own thing for fifteen minutes to come
back and just like feel as comfortable as when I
left her. How do you date? Are you on the apps? Um?
I'm not on the apps? I UM. I've done a
little bit of like the Instagram sliding and d m

(54:56):
ng every once in a while. That seems to be
like a decent channel. Ben is a big fan of that.
I met my fiance on that. I just messenged her
and said, hey, I think you're pretty, and hey look
at us. Now that's all the thanks. Hey you're pretty. Okay,

(55:17):
you led into this question bachelor girl, who you'd most
like to have noticed in her d m oh gosh, Like, okay, bachelor,
you slide into your DA or that you wish would
show up in your inbox? There you go, it's probably

(55:40):
Jojo Fletcher. You guys, were you knew? You know Jojo right?
Like you had some like brotherly connection or something with
her brothers. I don't think so. No, okay, okay, it's
not me. But I almost thought about like recasting again
when I found out she was the bachelorette. M hmm,

(56:01):
I would have been. That would have been a shocker,
fantastic story right there. That's amazing. We all love Joe Joe. Okay,
what is your favorite wine to drink personally when you
know you are praying and loving? Um? I shard so hard.
Chardonay French chardonnay is my favorite. UM and short Ashley,

(56:27):
I'm more of a red wine girl. But I like
the expression my mom's shard's real hard. I'm telling you,
if you want a team up, I recently bought that
domain and I'm figuring out what to do with shards
so hard, I'll join in. French chard burgundies and ChIL
those are my favorite. Okay? Cool? And lastly, what is
the wine that you serve as an at home date

(56:50):
or you know, order on the menu for a lady
in yourself. I'm a white wine kind of dude. Um,
so yeah, Samaniel Blanco Chardonnay, or I'm like Millans Muscade
something like that. So it's just like lower alcohol, easy
to drink, um and drink white wine like a middle
aged woman. It's kind of myne. We gotta get to

(57:13):
on the Housewives next. Now that's a reality show that
Ben Flynn a goold excel on you. I'll just like
show up shirtless delivering bottles of chardonnay. I would watch it. Uh, hey, Ben,
you're the man. I really appreciate you. Thank you for
coming on. We end every in depth with this. If
you have thirty seconds to talk to the listeners, uh,

(57:34):
with anything going on in your life that you just
like to leave them with or anything you'd like to
promote and talk about. The stage is yours, uh starting now?
Um yeah, I mean obviously I'm still making I'm still
making Rose, So if you want to, if you want
to buy any rose, it's it's I on dot wine,
not dot com dot wine. But more importantly, I think

(57:55):
that you know, given the climate, in the situation of
what's going on in the world today, like big deep, um,
listen to yourself, you know, try to try to take
some time and if if you can't do any play
love at least, um, you know, find a few days
to kind of reset because it's crazy, man. I just
I don't know what. I don't know where this is

(58:16):
gonna what the world's gonna look like at the end
of it. But I just hope that everyone's um, you know,
mentally sane and happy. So surround yourself with with loved
ones and support each other. That's really the big message
I'm I'm looking for these days. The original Bachelor, Ben,
we appreciate you, Buddy Thinks for coming on. Hey, we
mentioned at the beginning you might seat in the show notes.

(58:37):
Don't forget that today's episode is two bachelors for the
price of one. Up next, Jake Pavelka Yes, Jake Pelca,
the original pilot Bachelor from Dallas to exist. He was

(59:01):
known as the very first Bachelor who was a pilot.
He was originally a contestant on The Bachelorette Jillian Harris's
season and was brought back soon after to star as
the Bachelor. Jake Pavelco Welcome to the Almost Famous In
Depth Podcast. Thanks Ben, I appreciate it, man, It's good

(59:21):
to be here. How are you. We're doing really well.
We're doing great, Ashley and I are excited to talk
to you today. This is a special in depth where
we're gonna actually have two former Bachelor's in one episode.
Uh hey, Jake, to get us started here, UM, I
know right now you're working, and so there's gonna be
a little background noise where exactly you are are you

(59:42):
at in the world? Well, Uh so, as you know, Um,
I left the airline industry. I no longer fly anymore
the airlines very unfortunately because of COVID pandemic. I'm hearing
some very very deep furloughs. I think I've heard almost
pilots across the board at all the major airlines. So

(01:00:05):
I left the airline and I opened up an environmental
business here in Dallas Fort Worth and it has been
just we're in full explosive growth mode. Has been amazing, amazing. Yeah,
when did you uh make that decision? So I officially,
I guess I my I've completed my seventeenth year at

(01:00:26):
the airline in and left there pretty recently. Yeah, I
missed flying, But I'll tell you what, owning a business
I know, as you know, Ben, you know it's owning
a business is just amazing. It's the hardest thing I've
ever done. But it's the coolest thing I've ever absolute.

(01:00:48):
It is a I guess the pursuit worth going down.
I always tell anybody to do it. I don't think
it's easy. Uh, And in fact, I just said it
the other day. I said, the one thing about having
your own business and starting a business is you never
feel fully capable of doing it. Um. Yes, you always
feel a little bit behind. But hey, you know what,

(01:01:09):
for now, let's start back at the beginning where people
that listen to this podcast, uh, they'll remember you from
you grew up in Texas and started taking flying lessons
at a young age. What exactly what got you into flying.
So I just always been. I used to have dreams
that I could fly, and so I always knew i'd
be involved in aviation in some capacity. I didn't realize

(01:01:33):
it would turn into a career, but so I just
started taking flying lessons when I was ten. I'd go
mow yards and then go buy thirty minutes, and go
mow more yards and go buy thirty more minutes, and
just turned into enough flight time to actually work for
a company called Mayor Flight out of Burbank. It was
my first job. And I remember thirty five millimeter film

(01:01:54):
that you put in the cameras. I used to fly
undeveloped thirty five mill millimeter Fuji film up and down
the West Coast in the middle of the night. So
I'd go from Burbank up to Oakland, down to Vegas
back to Burbank. Interesting, and now, how did the Bachelor
get ahold of you? Do you apply? Or? Good question?

(01:02:18):
My church nominated me. So the pastors of the church
came up and said, hey, if we nominated just a
pretty cool show, would you wanna would you be interested
in that? And I was like, oh, of course, but
you know, I'm not a celebrity. And I'm not royalty
or anything like that. Why would they be interested in me?
And sure enough, I still kind of crazy that all

(01:02:39):
that happened. What do you think it was about you?
That you're pastor the church saw they were like, this
is a guy that I want to sign up for
the show, because that that is probably, especially back then,
a big step for any of those people to take
in your life to say I want to sign you
up for this dating show, especially in the church. Yeah, out, yeah,

(01:03:01):
I told him. I told him that I knew you've
been and they're like, oh, yeah, you you gotta, you
gotta do it. Yeah. I was a cool high school
kid back then. Yeah, I was the nerd back in
high school at that point. No, So what they were
what they were hoping was, you know, I grew up
in the church Christian and they they're like, you know,
we know that you're not gonna go sleep with all

(01:03:22):
of the all of the women. You know, you'll you'll
you'll be a gentleman. And you know I went on
there and tried my absolute best. Do you feel like
you made the church proud? Yes? But you know what's
crazy though, So it doesn't matter what you do on
the you know, during the fantasy suite, whether you intend
to have sex or not, it doesn't matter the way

(01:03:44):
the show is produced, you know, it's like the doors
closing really slow and then a hand reaches around and
puts the do not disturb, So it's completely insinuated no
matter what you do. Oh, I know all about that. Yeah,
I said my couch and enjoyed watching you, Ashley. That
was you did a good job. It was fun. Thank

(01:04:04):
you very much. Well. They aired Allie season last week,
and of course Ali is one of your top four girls.
How does it feel just like watching people from your
season move on and just like how they you know,
form families of their own and just like it all
started with you. Oh that's great. Um, you know, I

(01:04:27):
haven't talked to Ali. There's several of the several of
the women that I've kept in touch with over the years,
you know, and they're married now have kids, and it's
really cool to see, you know, just see their lives
progress and everything. Yeah, that's interesting. I was wondering why
my Instagram blew up last week. Yeah, it's probably, I mean, honestly,
it's it is. It's probably because these women who are

(01:04:48):
definitely a part of your story. Are now back on
the television for these got you know kind of reunion
re recap shows. One of the purposes of the In
Depth podcast is to is to go be on the
show and to go into the lives of the people
that have participated in it. And Gia was some somebody
that we sadly lost. Um and uh, can you just

(01:05:10):
spend a little bit of time, Jake, and for anybody
out there that maybe didn't get to watch the season
and didn't get to know her personally? What kind of
person was she? Oh? She was. She had a thing
for athletes, that was that was her vice right there.
She loved dating professional athletes. And but golly, I remember

(01:05:31):
when she got out of that limousine. She was so
dropped dead beautiful. Her personality matched it. I mean she
just glided over to me. Um. I knew that just
the way she addressed me that night. I'm going wow.
I mean, if your personality is just half of you,

(01:05:52):
know how beautiful you are. And turned out she was
just the whole package. Um. It's funny. I remember we
were in St. Lucia during this season and we were
sitting on the beach and you know, I really wanted
it to be her, but I could tell that we
just maybe we're looking for different things in life. Um

(01:06:15):
and uh that it probably long term wasn't gonna work.
And what he did is it turned into a really
good friendship afterwards. She was somebody that I can fight
it in and she had been you know, through that
journey with me. So it was like when someth would
go go wrong or go right, you know, we would
you know, staying pretty close contract contact. We did the Bachelor,
Bachelor Pad the second season and the Bachelor Pad together.

(01:06:37):
That was a that was a blast. So that was
actually the first person I was really close with that
I lost in life and so that was a really
that was a tough time. Geeus. Passing is so so sad. Um.
I want to move on to just where you are
in life today. Have you had a serious girlfriend since

(01:06:58):
the show? Know, you left with we all we all
know you love with Vienna and it was very uh dramatic,
did not end well? Did that like preventing you from
getting into, um, another relationship soon after? No? Um, I've
actually dated some really amazing women after the Bachelor. I've

(01:07:23):
been in a relationship for We've kind of been on
and off for about two years. She was going through
law school at s m U and so really hard
to spend time together. So it was like we were
on for a little while, then we were off while
she was going through school. Now she's barred and has
a has a job, and so that's looking pretty good.
So I'm currently in a serious relationship. Her name is Tiffany.

(01:07:47):
I think I think I remember this, Jake, you kind
of talking about it once we were in Vegas, that
you had something that actually just at Tiffany then ye.
So I mean, because you've dated for two years, you've
had some good relationships after your time with the Bachelor, which,
as we know, didn't work for you, as it doesn't
for for many people that go on the show, but

(01:08:09):
you gave it a good shot. Were you ever asked
to be the Bachelor again? Was I ever asked to
be the bag like a second time? No, never asked
to be again. So I mean, because it's interesting, you
know you if we look back and you weren't asked
to be the Bachelor again, but you're still considered one
of those Bachelor's that stand out to people. What what
do you think made you a Great Bachelor, So it

(01:08:30):
kind of seemed like the franchise was I know, at
that time, the franchise, I don't say, I know, I
don't believe the franchise was doing real well. Um. I
think what they did, what Mike Flice did was was brilliant.
Rather than bringing really well known people in, I think
he started, you know, one, recycling people that already went

(01:08:52):
through the Bachelorette or The Bachelor having them back. So
I think that was a really good move on their part.
And I was just a normal I you know, somebody
that you know, the pilot uniform on and go move
people around the United States kind of like Pete does. Um,
you know, just very normal people. I tried to be
very relatable. I was myself. I tried really hard to

(01:09:15):
treat you know, the women with the utmost respect that
they deserve. And you know, I not to mention, one
of the women on my season slept with the producer,
so that helped with the ratings I think a little bit.
But oh yeah, can we talk about that. I remember
that that's a big deal. What was her name? She

(01:09:39):
had a religtionship with the producer, like up partly a
cast producer yeah, that was not produced. I remember them
talking by Jake. You're not gonna believe. This guy's name
was Ryan. I don't remember his last name, but he
was one of the field producers that came in to
do my hometown package. So he liked shot all those
flying scenes and with the planes. But yeah, I mean,

(01:10:02):
I guess they wound up hitting it off when he
was doing uh when he was producing the house and
everything and got real close, wound up being a storyline.
Are they still together? Do we know this? Do we
know if there's like, did anything ever happen? I don't
think so. But she was worth losing his job over.
I'm sure he got fired, right he did, Yeah, he did,

(01:10:25):
and they put it all, they aired it all. It
was really surprised. You not watch the show that you produced.
See what happens when you do that? How did you So?
One of the producers told me, I knew you know
what it was. Cassie, my my producer on there, she said, hey,
look something's going on with Rosalind and one of the producers.

(01:10:46):
She said, you can you can probably figure out what
it is. Chris is gonna come in and like fully
disclose what it is. But she's probably gonna be leaving,
so you know, make sure that you're you know, you know,
in a frame of mind to have a series conversation
with you. It's like, I know exactly what's going on.
It was the second episode. We weren't deep enough into it,
you know, it was kind of like, hey, if that's

(01:11:08):
how you're gonna operate here, goodbye. The thing is, I'm
actually surprised it hasn't happened more often, because you do
get so close and intimate with the producers and like
they are the people that you are like connecting with
and like sharing your soul with, and the Bachelor just

(01:11:31):
seems like so far off um and like on a pedestal.
So I'm not I'm not completely surprised that this has
happened or but I'm surprised that it hasn't happened more.
There was girls on my season where we would talk
about kind of like maybe not the full blown crushes
we had, but feeling a little something and something for

(01:11:54):
a producer or too. That's because they you know, those
in the moment interviews, you know they're asking, well, Ashley,
when he when he said that to you, how did
that make you feel and like if I was him,
what would you say? Right? And then there's just like that, um,
they they have so much emotion toward you, and they're like, oh,
I know, I know. It seems like they're feeling the

(01:12:16):
exact same feeling that you are. Oh God, you brought
up a really good point. If to do it all
over again, I would try to have a very like
a very basic season, like we don't need to go
to you know, Indonesia or Bali. I mean, all that's great, Australia,

(01:12:36):
things like that, Let's let's stay local, let's go to
the Caribbean, and don't put me on a pedestal, don't
make me out to be a celebrity. Let let me
just be me. So that you know, the women aren't
looking up going oh my gosh, it should be Oh
that's Jake, easy to talk to, easy to approach, you know,
I could tell him anything. And I felt that way

(01:12:58):
with Jillian, and it was like, oh my gosh, here
comes to Bachelorette, you know, because they elevate you up
a little bit and it does this psychological mind game
when you're one of the contenders. Well, but you know,
with all that being said, too I I totally agree
with you. But since you were the Bachelor, I mean,
you have worked on some projects that have definitely kind

(01:13:20):
of lifted you up to be one of those celebrities.
I mean, if we go back at your resume here,
you've done Dance with the Stars, you did Bachelor Pad,
you're on The Bold and the Beautiful, and you've appeared
on some other TV shows. So I mean from the Bachelor,
you really have kind of created your own celebrity. I

(01:13:43):
guess that I've never felt that way, you know. I mean,
and that's one of the things that you know, I
want to like just tell both of you. It's like,
it's so cool, you know. I mean, everybody in America
knows who you both aren't, but you don't act any different.
I mean, you're just very genuine on your Twitter feeds,
in your your Instagram and everything. I think that's one
of your best qualities. I've tried to do the same thing.

(01:14:05):
I mean, I'm just Jake. I'm not you know, I'm
not a celebrity. I'm not any better, I'm not any
worse than anybody. It's just gay. Yeah. Well, and I
appreciate that. Man. It is something that that Ashley and
I try to do we we we really try to
lean on each other, especially through the podcast and kind
of the people listening. Just keeping level heads. Uh, never
let it get too high or too low. Uh, keep

(01:14:28):
your star up, keep your star up. Well, we got
to and and stars are aligning right now for yeah,
exactly as so many tons, so many funds. And and
one of our good friends, Caitlin Bristow. Obviously we found
out and I go episode a few weeks ago that
she's gonna be on Dance with the Stars in the
next upcoming season. Whenever that can happen. Uh, you've done

(01:14:51):
Dance with the Stars. Any advice for Caitlin? You know what,
I've never met, kayten Caitlin. I I just hear the
greatest things about her. Um, I'm gonna try to go
to one of the shows that she's on if they
have a if they have a live audience. Yeah, I
honestly think she's gonna do real well. Um. Same, Just

(01:15:12):
just spend the time you need with your coach and
listen to your coach or listen to your listen to
your pro How challenging was it? Like? How exhausting I
can't dance I always I had to practice ten hours
a day. I think it wore Chelsea and my partner out.
Tony is, you know, a good friend of Ben and mine,
and she was your runner up, and she is now

(01:15:34):
happily married and I think her her babies do within
the next two months. I'd say, how does it feel
seeing her um in mommy mode? That I think that's
like she is built to be a mother. So I
couldn't be happier for And you know the crazy things.
Ten years later, she looks exactly the same, just striking. Yeah,

(01:15:59):
Tinley's one of those. Tinley is one of a kind.
She's a really special, special human. She's a great friend
of the podcast, a good friend of ours. It's somebody
that we've all been really rooting for and we're just
super engaging. I know, Ashley and I just really think
highly of her. Yeah. I was hoping that eventually Tindley
would wind up on Dancing with the Stars. I can

(01:16:19):
see her doing really well on that. Yeah, she would
take the Mirrorball trophy. Yeah, for sure. She has such
a dancer's body. Mm hmm. All right, well, Jake, thank
you so much for joining us. Um it means a
lot that you took at the half an hour out
of your day. Thank you. I'm sorry. I was so
rushed it was hard to put this together, so I
appreciate the latitude problem. Hey Ben, I always like to ask,

(01:16:43):
and I want to extend the same bit. Is there
anything that I can do for you? Do you need?
What can I do to help with your your company?
That's really nice, man, that's really nice to you right now.
Uh you could, uh, you know, if you like coffee,
just jump online and buy a bag of coffee. That
would help. I'd love to see your name come across.
I'll do it. What about you, Ashley? You know when

(01:17:05):
you have a kid, you can buy our children's book,
Lucy and Clark. I'll buy. I'll buy ten copies, okay
if you have a Niezer nephew. Yes, of course, Lucy
and Clark, a Story of Puppy Love. I love it.
Oh that's great. Hey, Jake Pavlican, thanks a lot for

(01:17:26):
joining us, Buddy, appreciate it. Thanks guys. Follow the Benn
and Ashley I Almost Famous podcasts on I Heart Radio
or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.