Almost Famous: In Depth - Shawn Booth

Shawn Booth joins Ben and Ashley on this episode of Almost Famous: In Depth. He opens up about the painful moments since his relationship ended, and the questions that are still left on his mind. Ben and Ashley offer a unique perspective to Shawn’s situation, because Ben and Shawn are friends from their first experience on The Bachelorette, and Ashley is close with Kaitlyn from their time shared on the show.  Together, they help Shawn understand his feelings, get some things off his chest, and move forward. Also in this episode, Ben and Ashley have an honest conversation about an important issue that has come up in The Bachelor, in one of the most emotional moments of the entire franchise.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Ben and Ashley I almost Famous in Depth?
Is that me talking? That's oh, it's neither of us.
It sounds just like here's our professional voice. We uh
if for anybody out there listening. This is the second
episode in Depth with Ashley, I can anie myself. We

(00:23):
have a very special guest. We've been promising you, I
don't know the last month. Sean Booth is in studio
with us right now. Sean, thanks for joining us, Thanks
for having me. It's good to be back. And just
a reminder in Depth in Sean, I'll tell you this
as well. In Depth was something that we created with
my heart because Ashley and I realized almost famous is
is incredible? Right. We we we get to break down the episodes,

(00:45):
we get to talk about what's happening in Bachelor Nation.
But oftentimes these Bachelor contestants kind of come and go
and we don't ever get to know them, Like we
actually never get to know them. It just happens and
they're gone and we're on the next season. In Depth
is meant to pull back some of Bachelor Nation's favorites
and studio and just say, you know what's up now?
Who were you before the show? How did the show
affect you? And then what is life looking like? You

(01:06):
know now as as we look forward, you're obviously somebody
that everybody's very excited to talk about UM and have
been talking about because unfortunately a situation in your life
that has been I would say not ideal. H. So
you're the perfect person to bring into studio. Uh. And
you know, ash and I, well, this is something and Sean,

(01:29):
I know we got to talk about it a little
bit before. Uh. There is no desire in your heart
and for anybody there listening to bash Caitlin and and
it's not our desire to bash Caitly. This is not
a bash Caitlin podcast. This is a let's get to
know Sean podcast. Uh. And so anybody out there listening
this whole episode is going to be just allowing Sean
the place to speak truth, to speak from his heart.

(01:49):
And and Ashley and I just want to listen. Perfect,
let's do it. I want to do a lot more listening.
I feel like a little bit awkward if I can
be honest right now, And like I'm friends with Caitlin
on a couple of times, and you're so wonderful and
all the time that I've met you. But that's uh,
the awkward thing about breakups in general. It's like you
have all these friends, right, and then as soon as

(02:10):
you break up, it's like, well, you kind of lose
friends too because people kind of choose sides. I guess
which is. Um, I don't know if unfair is the word,
but I can understand it. But you you'll start noticing
that people don't talk to you anymore. It's, uh, that's
just one of the tough things about breaking up. So
and I know you guys are close. So, like Ben

(02:32):
was saying, we're not trying to make this abashed Caitlin things,
just talking. Yeah, yeah, let's just talk about Sean. Let's
make it lighthearted fun for now, and then we can
ease into the right and it is and and just
to libraty, this is a weird situation. I mean right, Like,
I don't think it's it's crazy for you actually to
say I feel awkward, I feel awkward. I think we

(02:52):
feel awkward dancing, you know. Around my breakup for seven months,
it kind of felt like it was always like being
brought up or emails are being brought in. Um, you know,
your breakup obviously you know. We we danced around that
for a while after Winter Games. Do you have to
say about that? What part of the Bachelor has not
been awkward since gone on that show? I think there

(03:14):
have been many, many awkward situations since day one. Yeah,
so feeling awkward this is what we expect, just so
used to it now it really doesn't face me. I
can like actually say to somebody's face, so I feel awkward, righting? Yeah? Um, actually,
I have a job for you to do. You did
it great last time, the fans love it. As we're
talking today, I need you We're gonna end this episode

(03:35):
with a rapid fire question on for Sean again. Uh,
and I need you to start forming those as we're
going here. Okay, So if you hear her writing and
and plugging away, it's because she's got a job to do.
And uh as as Ashley's researching and writing Sean. We
met on night one, and I think that's always a
really fun story for me to tell. And then let's

(03:56):
I would love for you to remind all of our
listeners how we met and then what that first night
entering into this whole new world felt like to you. Yeah,
So that's um one of the cool experiences about going
on that show as you formed these lifelong friendships, and um,
I think just going through his breakup, I try to
look at some of the pros that have come out
of it, and I think, me and You've been able

(04:17):
to talk more and connect more, which I look at
that as a as a good thing. Um. But yeah,
we met night one. We were in the same limo.
It was me, you Ryan McDill. I do know that,
um Ian Josh alberts Ian, he was a pleasure that
he's come and go fast, right it was five people,

(04:40):
I think. Yeah. Yeah, So we met and we kind
of connected right off the bat since night one, and
then we were roommates all the way up until I
think eighth ninth week of the show and we had
to split up into our final three. Um, but we
were very supportive of one another, which is also another
thing that people find tough to believe in your dating somebody,

(05:00):
but then you have to rely on your friends in
the house to kind of help you get through a thing.
So me and Ben were always really close, um since
night one. It was you know, actually brings it up
now and then because I actually found love from Caitlin's season. Um,
but Jared can I can I say an interesting statistic?
Right now? Caitlin's entire top four have been engaged through

(05:20):
the show, and Jared is the only one that's remained. Sorry, sorry,
that is actually kind of interesting. It is interesting, right, Oh,
I have another interesting stat Did I say it on
the podcast the other day? Yeah? I did. Um, there
are more Bachelor's married to the runner up than there
are their first pick. So it was Sean, Nick, Ben,

(05:42):
and Jared they were the top four. Tanner is also
on that season, but he wasn't the top four, but
he's engaged in So you're saying, real quick, this isn't
where I want to go too far deep into but
I forgot that awkward step. No, it's it's actually very interesting.
You're saying, there's more bachelor it's married to the runner
up bachelor. So it would be um, Jason Mesnick and

(06:04):
Ari both ended up marrying their runner up, wow boy.
And then Sean is the Shan Lowe is the only
one married to kind of weird. Um. Yeah, so we
meet on night one and actually, I think you'll you'll
know this about me, right. I felt really comforted by
being friends with Sean because you look around the room

(06:25):
like Sean's the cool guy in the room right, like
he stood out. And so the fact that Sean and
I were friends, I remember going, I'll be okay because
somehow the coolest guy in the room like me. Does
that make sense? I will say, Sean definitely puts out
those vibes. Yeah, thank you, guys. Um. I remember night
one as Ben being very shy and he was nervous

(06:46):
the whole night about his entrance. They sat down on
the couch and all night he was kind of kicking himself,
saying that he thought he'd messed up, but you do.
I did mess up. I think everbody would say. I
literally got ended up doing all right here. So I
gotta limo. And I was like, because it was back
when there's two bachelorrettes. And I went to to Britta
and I was like, I hear you like to help kids.

(07:07):
I like to help kids too, no context, no context giving.
I walked over the kids, you like, we should get married.
I walked over to Caitlin and I couldn't get my
words out, like I like literally froze, like I couldn't speak,
and I just said, it's nice to meet. You'll see
inside And I just walked inside and I went inside
and I sat on the couch, was like, oh, man,
like this could not have gone worse. One girl thinks

(07:30):
I'm creepy. The other girl like hasn't heard me talk yet?
Did you know who you're going to go vote for?
Going into that season? I didn't know we were voting.
I don't think we knew that there would be a
vote off. I thought they would both be the Bachelor
at up until the moment they said, Hey, yeah, which
one were you more interested in going into the show.
I think Britta and I had more in common, but
I think Caitlin definitely had the bigger personality. Um, and

(07:54):
so that's why we did that. But it's true, like
you know, Sean just has this chrisma about him. The
guys know it. Jared has mentioned it. Jared definitely has
like a he's unintimidated by you, but he does think
of you very highly in the same way, like, oh,
he's the cool one. You were definitely the one that
he always was like, Nope, that guy's way better than me.

(08:16):
And that's not true, and I think very highly so
and I do miss that guy. And miss all you guys,
So you know that is a good place and to
kind of look back because we want to get to
know you a little bit. So you walk on the
show as the cool guy, people perceive that you might
not feel that about yourself, but that's what people perceived
you guys. What was your life like before the show?
What were you doing? What led up to that moment

(08:37):
that you said, I'm gonna go on this show and
then I want you within this show Because I do
remember this as I was prepping for this to talk
about the story of your tooth leading up to the
first night. What I forget he chipped it? I did
chip it? Yes, all right? Um yeah, So leading up
to the show, I was living in Nashville, Tennessee, and
I kind of made this big move in my life

(08:57):
about three years prior to the show. Um, I've always
been a small town guy. Grew up in Connecticut, went
to school up in New Hampshire, and then started uh
working insurance out of college. And I've always been in
the athletics and played sports my whole life and played
soccer in college and I really got into fitness, so
I was doing that on the side. Um, I moved
around from Wisconsin to Michigan back to Connecticut, and then

(09:19):
I was just at this point in my life where
I really just wanted more. I wanted to make a change. UM,
I wanted to kind of see what was out there.
So I went on a guy's weekend to Nashville, Tennessee,
and I got back on the plane and I told
my buddies that I was going to sell my house
once I got back to Connecticut and moved down there.
So I did that. I moved down there by myself
and then UM was there for a year two UM,

(09:42):
and then one thing let another ended up at the
Bachelor Mansion. How did you apply for the show? So
I UM was introduced to a couple of buddies UH
down in Nashville, and we had went out to a
honky tonk and UH on Broadway and they were doing
casting for The Bachelor. And a buddy of mine, he

(10:07):
was on the show with Andy for one episode, so
he wanted to go say hi to UH, the the
producer there. And once they found out that The Bachelor
was casting, and we're like, oh, this is cool. This
bar is filled with a lot of women. UM, it's
like a Tuesday night, and um, we drank and then
I met with one of the recruiting ladies. I didn't interview.

(10:31):
They wanted me to do the interview there. Um, and
I was like, I'll pass on that. It was like midnight,
and I wasn't quite sure about that. And then months
down the road she ended up getting my information for
my buddy and then she said she's coming to Nashville.
I wanted to meet with me in a hotel and
and obviously they're saying, hey, we hit the jackpot with Sean.

(10:52):
So Sean, you've been told now at this point in
the story that you're going on the show. Uh, you're
leading up to the show, you choose to still go
out and drink on a night you tip back a
beer and chip your tooth. But three days before leaving
for the show, Yeah, it was something real close to
the show. Um had a beer up to my mouth,
glass bottle, probably Michaelo Bultra, and UH got hit by

(11:15):
this girl and chipped my tooth. And I went to
the dentist and they said it was gonna take about
a week or so to get a fixed and I
said that's not uh, And then I, well, it's just
gonna take a few days. We can't fix this. And
I was like, you don't understand. And I didn't want
to tell a lot of people, and I was like, hey,
I'm going on the show. And then I finally told

(11:36):
him like, hey, listen, I've got a really big event
coming up. Uh kind of it's gonna be on TV.
There's a lot of people that are don't see it,
and uh, what can you do to help me out?
So they are like, oh, we gotta get this guy
a new tooth. Good and so, I mean, you know,
we've talked about all the time, but obviously that first
night you kind of look around, you know, whose lives
are gonna be changed from the show. I think most

(11:58):
of us looked around at Sean and said, that's a
guy whose life is no matter what, gonna be changed.
That's interesting because I thought the same thing about Caitlin.
Was Caitlin and Britt Actually, those are the two girls
that are like they're going far? Why was that what
stood out to you about them? Caitlin, it was because
she wasn't afraid to say anything, and I did think
she was so pretty. And then with Britt, she was

(12:19):
just that feminine beauty. Yeah, you know, Sean, it does
feel weird. And I don't at any point if you
were like pulling back and I don't want to even
talk about that. It's fine, Um, but it does feel
weird to talk about Caitlin right now. But we're going
to get into you know, what's happened and and and
allow you to tell you're just where you're at today
here in a second, but going in a night one. Um.

(12:41):
I remember sitting that limo and you were confident that
she was something special, right. I remember you looking at
me and saying, that girl's got something that I desire.
Oh wait, what about that snapchat? Like were you watching
our season, the Crystal season for the one that you'd
want to be the bachelorette? And then you said I'm
coming for you Caitlin with the heart on Snapchat? And

(13:02):
that's like Infamous? Now all the guys that are up
for the next season do that? Did you feel something
through the TV? Even? Yeah? I did? Um, I was
it was Sean takes a second here, I remember, Um,
I don't know. I remember that what was our very
first episode of Almost Famous was the week that Lauren

(13:25):
I broke up. You remember that and how brutal that was.
I mean, I mean, we did the very first episode
of this show the week that we broke up, put
on a serious facade, and it was it was really hard.

(13:46):
But I will say with all that, um, there is
this level. I don't know, man, your your life here
in the last couple of weeks has been very public
on something this I would imagine I want to be
one of the artist things you ever been through and um,
and it feels weird just kind of sitting back watching it, right,

(14:06):
you know. Yeah, I mean I've kind of just tried
to ignore it. I guess going through a breakup is
pretty difficult to begin with, and then um, throwing it
out there in front of everybody to see makes it
that much harder. But that's kind of what we signed
up for. You've been through it. You've been through it. Um,

(14:28):
so just trying to figure it all out and uh,
sit with my emotions and figure out what I'm feeling.
And you know, I think the old Seawan would have
just kind of ignored everything and been like, all right,
I'm just gonna ignore this and I'm all right, Um,
but now I think I get a little bit older,
I'm trying to, you know, figure out what hurts, why
it hurts, and kind of work through it. So the

(14:51):
past few months, I've been working hard at it and
just looking at it from all different angles. Um So
it's yeah, stuff, What are some of the questions that
kind of come into your mind? Then as you are
processing this, um, like, what are some of the stuff
you started to ask yourself? Um? Well, I think that

(15:13):
the hardest part about going through a breakup is, um,
you know, not only did I um, all right, yeah,
you can take a break, Sean. Before we took a break,
I asked you, you know, what are some of these
questions that you've been asking yourself. You mentioned that you
ask yourself these questions. Is you know the breakups now

(15:35):
happen and you kind of look back on these last
couple of years, what are some of those questions? Um?
I think just going through the normal human emotions with
any breakup and um looking at it from all different angles.
You know. First, obviously you know there's the heartbreak and pain,
and which I think is normal to anybody going through
a breakup. Um. So I'm just trying to I guess

(16:00):
figure out um Um, I guess not why, but trying
to understand things right now. But I guess this goes
with her new relationship to just kind of makes me
question everything that we've had. So I think that's one

(16:21):
of the major questions that runs through my mind, just
trying to understand that, which I think is tough to understand.
But so I asked myself those questions. And but then
there's a part of me that is, you know, I
do care about her, So I am happy that she
doesn't have to really I guess deal with, um maybe

(16:43):
all the pain and the and the heartbreak, because it
seems like she's moved on and she's happy. So that
does kind of make me a little more comfortable, knowing
that that you're not at home at our empty house. UM.
So I look at it from that point of view,
And then I also think that at it's helping me
to move on, um, because it does hurt that much.

(17:05):
But seeing everything it does, you know, upset me and
it does make me a little angry. UM, But it
also helps me to move on knowing that, um, maybe
we weren't right for each other, and UM, I will
find somebody down the road that will also make me happy.
When do you think it started falling apart. Um, I mean,

(17:30):
we had a tough go right out of the gates.
I think, I think everybody knows that it was a
pretty dramatic season, probably one of the more dramatic seasons.
But um yeah, I'm not gonna lie in sugarcoat and
say yeah, it was all you know, roses right out

(17:50):
of the gates. I mean, I think we started having
having a tough time with our relationship in like the
second week of the season. We went through all different
types of ups and downs. And I remember and talking
to Todd Snyder, producer who was I was really close with,
He's like, I've never seen somebody go through so many
ups and downs on this show in the relationship, because
it was always pushing pull, pushing pull, Like we were

(18:12):
going through some serious stuff on the show. And then
obviously once we're engaged and we were able to announce
that we're together, we're happy, we're excited, and then um,
then you still have to deal with other issues and
it's always like, um, yeah, I had I had a
tough time on that show, but it was always a
battle of my heart versus my brain, right, And I

(18:37):
think the whole nixt situation was. It was a big
part of our relationship. Would you say you never got
over the next situation? Um? Yeah, I think, Uh, it's
always something that was in the back of my mind. Yeah,
it was tough. And and that's where I say, it's
always a trying to figure out what my brain feels

(18:58):
versus my heart. My brain tells me I'm on the Bachelorette,
this happens. I remember saying that to all the producers,
Like I remember them being like, why aren't you so mad?
Why don't you want to run out of here? Why
don't you want to go punch a wall? Like aren't
you furious? And I'm like, I'm on the bachelorette, Like this,
this stuff happens. She's not completely committed to me. Um

(19:20):
versus my heart feeling like damn, that really hurts. And
then not only that, but then having to deal with
that everywhere after the show and everywhere we went, And
that was always a big topic, and that was one
of the major storylines of our season. I think. Um,
I think if if people were look back at that season,
they would remember, um me and nick I guess feud

(19:45):
and and what happened with that? Um so yeah, I mean,
it's it's tough. I think anybody can agree with that.
That having to uh, you know, go through your engagement
and you're together but still dealing with the past and
it being thrown in your faces everywhere. Is that was
like a a powerful thing, right because because I wanted
to support her as um, you know, being a female

(20:08):
and being able to do what she wants and um.
So she received a lot of good press for that, right,
and then a lot of hate for that as well.
But I mean it was every magazine, every news channel.
I remember coming home from my apartment, like walking in
and seeing it on Jimmy Kimmel, like making jokes about it,
or going to the grocery store and seeing and on

(20:28):
the cover of magazine, or going out somewhere in public
and somebody saying something to me. So it was literally everywhere,
And um, that's just I think normal to have those
feelings when you are engaged with somebody. It wasn't easy. Well,
and not just engaged. I think this is a good
example of when reality television becomes real life and you're

(20:51):
not just engaged a kid and you love Calin and
so you're in love with somebody who is also and
I know, Lauren done with this, you know, and it sucks,
and there's there's no but like, you're in love with
somebody who is still being put on magazines talking about
other people. You're watching them kiss other people, You're watching
them express feelings for other people. And I think for you,

(21:15):
you you cared about her. I mean there is zero
question in my mind from night one to the very
end that you were all in on her, like I
was figuring it out right, like I was still trying
to figure out it what what Caitlin was to me
a friend, you know, a good you know pal, or
if I was really pursuing her for for life or not.
You from day one said no, that's that's somebody I'm

(21:37):
interested in. And so your heart was on the line
the whole time. Yeah, I mean it was. It's always
been tough for me to open up and for me
to trust people in general, and so I kind of
just told myself going on that show, the only way
this thing is gonna work is if I, you know,
fully open up and treat this as a normal relationship.

(21:58):
And that world is anything but normal, and you guys
know that, and you can try and treat it like
a regular relationship. But it's not at all like I'll
come back home or I'll be waiting, Like I remember,
we had such a good relationship, um, and we talked

(22:21):
about Caitlin. But it got to the point where there
was just four of us left and we're still in
the same room, and like I'd be laying in bed
and then you'd come home at like one or two
in the morning and you'd get in bed and like,
I wasn't right, and you're already like I was already
in love at that point, and yeah, you're like, hey,

(22:41):
I was good. I was like, all right, I don't
want to hear any more. At that point, it is like,
holy this is getting pretty crazy. But yeah, there's nothing
normal about it. Um. But it's not like I have
regrets because I went in there and um, you know,
I guess I left it all out there and um yeah,

(23:05):
it's but it gives everybody out there and myself a
backstory to how you got to to this point. Right.
I remember a night in in Ireland. It's Sean Mitge.
I think it's a night he's talking about He's I
got home late and he's still awake and he's laying
on his bed, on top of the covers um, looking
up at the ceiling, and he won't even make y
kind How was it said? It was good good, And

(23:27):
he goes, all right, that's cool, and he's done and
he rolls over and sticks his head right in the pillows,
and I was like, this guy. Absolutely, Yeah, I have
to say that from the portrayal on the show, I've
never seen it for trade as deep love as it
has been with you and Caitlin m It's it felt
like stuff and and Shanna have to ask, now, um,

(23:53):
is that why this has been so hard? I mean
just I felt love from this show and this new
season right this this chapter. Now that you're looking around
your sayings, No, it's no longer the same as it
was because of the authenticity and the genius and the
real love that was felt. Is that why this has

(24:14):
been so hard to process? Yeah? Absolutely, because it's like
not only where we engage, but it's like, man, I
lost my best friend too. We're gonna take another break. Hey,
what's up. I'm Stephanie Pratt. You may know me from

(24:36):
the Hills and I'm wells Adams from like Batchroom Paradise,
and I don't know I dated someone that's famous. Okay,
you guys, he's he's well as Autem Sarah Highland's boyfriend.
Can that not be my moniker? It's no, it should be.
So when we start the show, you're just gonna be like, hey,

(24:57):
and Sarah Highland's boyfriend, we're going for it. Enough about Wells.
This is actually the Pratt Cast and it's going to
be about the Hills, and we'll be talking about things
you can't hear anywhere else. Having castmates come on talking
about Wells his dating life with Sarah. I was looking

(25:17):
at you my bath. They've locked us in this freaking
studio together and they won't let us out until we
have your new favorite obsession. So please subscribe to Pratt
Cast after we finished this episode, or just do it
right now because you're probably bored of this episode and
literally we want to get out. It's lunch time. Yes,
it's home sweating right now? Can we turn the air

(25:37):
rose alright on three one two three? You won't regret it.
I want to say it's therapeutic, like I want to
say this is good, and I think it is because
as we process breakups in these pains, I think we
live not only as we talk about like I think
we'll talk about in a second, but we live in
a generation where, um, there's an incredible amount of visibility

(26:00):
into some of the hardest things. Now you know, for
you you have to watch your partner move on. But
also we live in a generation where vulnerability is um
quickly uh scene and so hearing things like this, like
hearing uh you processing through this is is obviously going
to relate with a lot of people out there. I
unfortunately to do it on national TV on Winter Games

(26:20):
when Chris Harrison knew the exact question, asked me, then,
what's the hardest part? He knew that's what was gonna
get me. Um, And I can't even say what I
said because this is this is about you. But my
point is this is not easy, and so you fighting
through this is is to be expected for me. I
just had to do it when I couldn't walk away. Um.

(26:43):
But but I you know, Sean, I want you to
just talk as you feel, um you need, will take
breaks as we need. But but yeah, I mean I
think that leads us into that question before, is is
what is the hardest part? Um? Yeah? Well, first off,
thank you asked for being patient with me, and I I
actually think it's gonna be uh this difficult. I knew
it would be hard, but I guess once you actually

(27:05):
start opening up about it a little more, UM makes
it that much harder. Um. It just feels like everything
is just like completely gone like that, like Caitlyn and
Shawn like gone, like everything we've had, Um, everything we've
been through. UM. You know, we were this team that
we got through a lot of stuff together, but then
just like in an instant, it's all gone. And so

(27:26):
it's just trying to move on from that and then UM,
stay positive about it and not let the outside noise
take you down too much. UM, because you know, living
in a world where everything is on social media, and
you know, it's nerve racking every time I pick up
my phone. I haven't been on Twitter and months just

(27:48):
because I don't want to scroll the mentions. And then
going on Instagram, you know I do that for business purposes. UM,
obviously get caught with scrolling, and that's always tough because
I just you know, you have a bit in your
stomach and then you know this and you know this
don't discover page. I do not go to the discover page.
I learned that pretty quick. I haven't been there in
a while. UM, so yeah, that that's that's the hard part.

(28:12):
And I think just with her and moving on so quick. UM,
I just have a tough time understanding why she would
be putting this out everywhere or blasting it all over
the place, knowing, um that it could hurt. UM. There's
a lot of confusion about the timeline at the end
of the ever your relationship. When did everything? When did

(28:36):
you start taking a break? Um? We were working through
things during the summer, but we weren't officially like we
were still together, like when you guys spent like a
month apart and people on Instagram respective breaking out Now
we were still together. Um, we are ended up, I

(28:58):
would say, officially breaking up September and then um announcing
it in November. Yeah, that's also around the same time
I learned about Caitlin and Jason in November. Yeah. I
want to I want to definitely get into Caitlin and

(29:18):
Jason in a second, because I know it's gonna be hard. Um.
But when you I think looking back on my time too,
and I'm just trying to pull back those those emotions.
I honestly try to block him out. But um, when
you broke up m hm. And it was officially done
in September, right, and you don't, you know, you take

(29:39):
some time to announce it because it just wise and
smart and it's it's about you two anyways. And did
you expect it to be this hard? No? I didn't.
I think we're at a point in our relationship where
we were like, all right, this has to happen, and
it was just like, all right, we're doing it, and
just kind of went a hundred miles an hour and

(30:03):
next thing, you know, Um, I think it really hit
me hard the day it was announced. That was tough.
But I never thought, I guess in the back of
my mind, and I probably shouldn't have thought this. I
didn't think it was maybe completely over. I thought that maybe,
all right, there was a part of us that kind
of wanted to announce it to kind of get everybody

(30:24):
off our backs because we were trying to work on
it behind closed doors and doing what we need to do.
And then just the pressure from everybody speculating and a
lot of rumors starting, and um, that started affecting our
relationship too, So it was almost like, all right, we're done,

(30:45):
and then, UM, I guess in my mind, I thought
maybe there was still some chance, you know, after we
announced it, that we would, you know, stay friends, and
that's what I wanted to do. Um. Maybe I'm naive
for thinking that, but I did tell her that I
wanted to work through this as a team. That was

(31:06):
my main thing. Like, we only have each other for this,
and there's not a lot of people who have been
through this situation and going through breakups are extremely difficult,
but then having to deal with everything else, you know,
I wanted to work with each other and kind of
support one another and be there for each other. And
then that just didn't happen. So why did you decide

(31:27):
you couldn't be friends? Um? Because I found out about
her and Jason. Let's let's dig into that then. UM,
how do you feel about that? Um? How much? How
much time do we have? Well, we have we have,
I don't know. I hope a long life ahead of us. Yeah,

(31:50):
I feel the the whole array of emotions, pain, anger, confu,
usuon um everything else. Yeah, it's tough. Well, we got

(32:10):
an email from Elizabeth and she asked a question on
this topic. She goes, once you go public with a breakup,
and you are expected, you're you're obviously two people expected
to move on eventually. She says, I love both Shawn
and Caitlin, and Shawn's feelings should of course be taken
into consideration. But once you've broken up with someone, do

(32:31):
you really get to say on how fast your X
moves on? No? And I'm not saying I don't. I
don't have a saying anything that she does. And that's
her life and um, obviously what they had was strong
enough to pursue that and to run with it. Its

(32:51):
Does it hurt Hell yeah, it hurts, um, But she
can do what she wants and I'm not going to
stop her from you know, like that lady asked or
said that do we have to say? No? Absolutely, I
don't have to say we are. Sean and I were
able to speak a couple of times it's a break up,
and one of those was that we asked that question
to me, what was do I even have to stay here? Like?

(33:13):
Is there any timeline that we can because it hurts right, like,
no matter what, you're human, you see it. The worst part,
I think one of the worst parts about a breakup,
not only is the finality of it sometimes and the
idea that you know, as Sean I talked about earlier,
like you look around, you go, this is done, moving on.
But the second part is the band aid being ripped
off and seeing that person with somebody else, like sharing

(33:36):
that intimate moment. Because and and and Shan, you know,
thank you for giving us opportunity to ask you these questions,
and thanks for coming in here and talk to us.
But I do have to clarify that when you're engaged,
you're setting up boundaries, and you're you're in it, Ashley,
you're setting up boundaries in your head now to say,
I'm never gonna kiss another person, I'm never gonna lay
next to another person. I'm never gonna look at another

(33:57):
person with the trust in the honesty and the vulnerability
that I'm doing to this partner. And so when you
see that then end that's one thing. And then when
you see that start to happen with somebody else, that's
a whole another. And so what Sean and I came
to conclusion, which this guy is exactly what he said.
It hurts, it can hurt, it should hurt, it will hurt.
But no, we don't have any say, and that's what
hurts maybe the most as you can't control it. That's

(34:20):
what I mean, you have no say in it. It's like, yeah,
they're together, and if she's happy, she's happy that's what
she wants to do, then that's what she wants to do.
I think that is the finality of it all though.
You know when I when we broke up and announced it,
and we're still talking, um, still talking as friends. Yeah,

(34:41):
still talking like texting and we're still um. I was
still bringing over Tucker to see her, and um, that's
what's something we were going to continue to do. And yeah,
just kind of helping one another out. But then it
just it ended. So then then when all this stuff
comes out and um, you find out these things, that

(35:05):
was kind of like, all right, I guess this is
really done. We we have a question from Maggie relating
to the topic, and I do think this is interesting,
uh and I do want to hear sean your your
opinion on this. It says the double standard from Maggie,
I think we while we obviously want both parties to

(35:26):
be happy and I love Jason and Caitlin for each other,
if the rules were reversed and Sean was being this public,
you'd be crucified, as says, I mean, there is talk
of him just hanging out with a girl from the
gym that probably isn't even a relationship, and people were outraged.
I think the relationship has probably been over for a
while and it's Caitlin's right to move on. But there's
a double standard that was from Maggie. I will say this,

(35:50):
I was very frustrated. Um, there were tabloids that came
out that I was spot had with some girl at
a fitness event. Um. I was also spotted at that
fitness event with probably fifty four other people as well.

(36:10):
They didn't put that in there. Um. And then, Um,
I was getting attacked really bad, and I was getting
very mean emails, messages, comments, and people were just out
from my head because they thought that I was dating
somebody which I wasn't and there was no relationship there. Um.

(36:33):
And then I had heard that Caitlin talked about on
her podcast, and that was something that also frustrated me
because at that point I already knew that she had
been with Jason, and it was with Jason a couple
of weeks prior to that, and talking to him, So
that hurt. Why do you think that is? I mean,

(36:57):
there there is this It feels like, you know, I
remember remember when when the headlines came out about you
and somebody from some fitness event and no matter what here,
let's take even Caitlin out of the conversation here and
like let's say, yeah, at that point, it wasn't public
with her and Jason just for you. You You come out

(37:19):
and you're spotted with one girl at a fitness event,
and it becomes, you know, the headlines of negativity. This
you know, now comes into play, the Caitlin and Jason thing,
and we add that in it says this is being
supported in and encouraged. Why is that? Well? I think
it's also because he's from Bachelor Nation, right, He's a

(37:42):
well liked guy from Bachelor Nation, and people look at
our lives sometimes as being these people on TV. So
they're like, oh, I really like Jason on his season.
I was rooting for him. I really liked Caitlin on
her season. Oh it's so cool that they're together. I
like both of them. Um that's one theory that I

(38:05):
have or where I think that's probably why that is
very supported. Um. I don't know. I don't know if
there's a double standard, but I didn't think it was
fair the way I was being treated, just knowing what
I knew. But then again, I keep reminding myself what
my dad has told me since I'm a little kid,

(38:26):
that life is not fair and there's and it's never
gonna be fair. Um So it's just rolling with the punches.
And in a sense right now, I'm kind of just
getting all of it out of the way, like all right,
going through the breakup that's painful, And then, like you said,
I think the hardest thing that anybody has to go
through is seeing their um X or something they're in

(38:48):
love with with another person. So I'm kind of all right,
we're getting this over with now, like just dealing with it,
and I just know that it's all gonna make me
stronger and I'm gonna come out of this a better person.
So I try and stay positive as best I can.
You know, I can't. I'm not gonna sit here and
complain about my life. Like I know, I'm a lucky guy,

(39:10):
Like I get to wake up every morning and I
do what I love most with phenomenal people. I have
my health, I have a loving and care and family,
great friends, and every day I come home and I
have the best dog in the world that greets me
when I opened the door. So I realized, I'm a
lucky guy. And um, I know that this is just
a relationship. So I don't want to sit here and

(39:31):
be like, oh, poor me, like pity me. You know,
I'm gonna get through it. It's gonna hurt like hell.
It does hurt like hell, but it's just gonna make
me stronger. And I know that down the road, I'm
gonna be able to look back at this and I
know that down the road, I'll be really happy again
in a relationship. So okay, So Sean, what are your
feelings on Caitlin right now? Caitlin is someone that I

(39:53):
obviously care about and somebody that I was in love with,
and she was somebody that I experienced all um crazy
things in life with and went through a lot with her.
So it's tough for me to sit here now like
try and go going through the thick of everything and
have an honest opinion about her. And I don't want

(40:16):
it to be negative because even though we've talked about
a lot of the tougher things in our relationship here.
You know, I don't wanna discredit all the good things
that we had in our relationship, and there were a
lot of them, and we did have a lot of
good times together, and obviously I will look back at
this um part of my life and cherish it. Um.

(40:40):
So I guess at the end of the day, I
do want her to be happy. And now I suppose
that the reason you maybe have a bad taste in
your mouth is just because how fast she moved on. Yeah,

(41:00):
I think that just it stings, um, and I think
that's normal to have those feelings. UM. But again, I'm
not gonna sit here and say, hey, I was this
perfect guy in this relationship, and I know there are
things that I could have been better with and UM,
I'm not putting the blame on her for the relationship
or why it ended. I think it just, um hurts

(41:22):
seeing somebody that you were in love with move on
and move on quickly. But um, she's allowed to do
that and it is what it is. But yeah, it's
it's just it's hard. You mentioned a couple of times
through the podcast, and so I gotta ask, um, is
there a chance or do you foresee yourself ever getting

(41:44):
back together. No, was the answer to that different like
a month ago. Yeah, yes, we weren't taking the break.

(42:07):
So when you guys did officially split in September, you
didn't have this any sort of negative connotation. No, I
don't think it was really negative. It was just sad.
I think we're both sad, and I think we were
both at a point where it had to happen. So
it was we were being friendly and um, but she

(42:32):
had moved on, which is fine. So I think that's
kind of when the communication stopped. I feel like Caitlin
may have started mourning the end of your relationship before.
Possibly it was even over, saying like July, when things
started really going down south and you're trying to work
on things, when do you think you started nothing. I

(42:54):
don't want to like just say for a fact, she
started board to get in July. I have no idea
when she did. This is just ibes I'm getting. But Wendy,
you think you started mourning the end of the relationship. Yeah,
that could be a true statement. Um, I think it
was probably after her and I think everything just kind
of hit really hard and really quick, and so maybe

(43:17):
that is why I'm having a little bit of a
tougher time because I'm going through the morning process now
where she could have been earlier. So, UM, I guess
people more in things differently, And I would definitely say
that announcing the breakup was extremely tough, and then seeing
her move on it was extremely tough. And I'm kind

(43:41):
of just mourning all of it right now. So possibly
it was maybe she was mourning the end of the
relationship and then when you guys announced it, she kind
of felt a weightlifted, and then you kind of the opposite.
That's when everything started to feel real. Um. I don't

(44:01):
know if I felt the opposite, like there was a
weight lifted from me too, I felt, but I guess
I just think, Um, I don't know. Maybe I just
didn't prepare myself. I don't think that's something I can
prepare for. I guess it's in the back of your mind,
like all right, maybe this thing won't work, um, And

(44:24):
we did a lot to try and make it work. UM.
So I think when it actually did come to an end,
it was like, holy cow, it's actually done. And then,
of course, even when we broke up and from September
to November still kind of just you know, um going
along day to day, And like I said before, I

(44:44):
think it just really hit once it was announced, and
then hit again when I found out everything with Jason.
So I want to be really clear about the timeline.
You guys broke up officially in September, you remained for endly,
then Jason and Caitlin met while recording her podcast in October,

(45:07):
and then they started dating in January, or at least
we're public about dating in January. You're not intinuing it
at all that they were like going behind your back
before the official breakup. I want to make that like
super clear. Yeah, I'm not saying that she was cheating
on him, are cheating on me with you. I'm not
saying that because I know that she loves you unconditionally. Still, yeah,

(45:32):
I don't think. I don't want to say that. I
don't want people to think that. Um, the whole timeline thing,
like you said, broke up September, announced in November. Um,
I just I just found out about the Jason and
Caitlyn thing back in November. So UM, I know they
are publicly going on and talking about it right now

(45:54):
and saying they're going on their first dates and the
second dates and putting all over social media. Um, but
I knew the US for a couple of months now,
so it's a little bit I've been dealing with it
a little bit longer, so it's kind of a little
fresher to the public. Um. The only thing that I guess, um,
I don't know if they're afraid to announce it prior
to them and maybe when they say they're going there,

(46:16):
they're going on the first date. I'm assuming that that's
public because obviously they spent time together before then. So
that's the only thing that I was just like, Oh, okay,
why are they trying to um tell everybody they're just
starting to date now. That's why I'm like, are they
hiding something? But I don't think they are. That's where
I'm confused. The public really perceived you guys not being

(46:41):
married after being engaged for three years as a stressor
as maybe that was why you guys broke up because
you just you just didn't want to get married and
she wanted to get married. Was that an actual issue
in the relationship or just a perceived issue from the
pop Like, yeah, that was that was definitely more perceived

(47:03):
by the public. It was never a big thing with us.
Since day one, we realized that the way we met
was definitely a little different, and we always said we
wanted to take our time. But there was never any
point where I was like, let's get married now, or
she was like, come on, let's get married. We we
both were just kind of going with the flow, and um,

(47:25):
we really didn't let that outside noise get to us,
like the whole marriage thing. We kind of laughed off,
like when we're ready, we'll get married. And we just
never got to that point. And I think we both
felt that. So that's why we never really discussed it
or started planning it, because I think obviously, deep down
she knew and deep down I knew that we just
weren't there. Okay, so you don't think that your relationship

(47:48):
was ever stable enough for you to sign the papers
and commit it forever, right, Yeah, And at least that's
how I felt. I mean, I can't talk on her behalf,
but I know, like she was never like, come on,
let's get married, let's do this, like and she she
never and she has always said that she's never been
a girl that's you know, crazy about planning her wedding
or or getting married, and I think it's just for

(48:10):
her being in that stable relationship. And if marriage happens,
it happens, I mean I would I would have to
imagine for you. And as a friend, I sit there
and I read this stuff, and I see all these
things right come out on in tabloids and magazines, on
you know, Twitter or whatever it is. I see all
these things. I see your picture pop up, and I
see them and I know, no matter what, neither you

(48:30):
or Caitlin here want these things to be spread because
they're not true. And so sitting silent feels paralyzing. It
almost feels like it would hurt more than coming out
and talking about it. Yeah, And I think, uh, a
lot of people just think I'm this guy who only
cares about his gym and working out and his dog.

(48:50):
And you know, because everybody looks at social media as
an end all be all right, They're just like, oh,
this guy does not give a crap about anything. He
doesn't care about a relationship or Caitlin or any of that,
which gonna be farther from the truth. And I also
I want to help maybe hopefully this helps somebody get

(49:10):
through this because as tough as this was to sitting
here and talk. Obviously, we've come a long way in
the last hour. M it does. It has helped me,
and hopefully this helps somebody if they're sitting in their
car right now, because probably somebody's going through a tough breakup,
and all three of us sitting at the stable have
been through very tough breakups. Since you wanted to come

(49:33):
here and tell your side of the story, I just
want to clarify. I have a few more things before
we move on from all the serious stuff. Was it
a mutual split? Would you say? I would say that
it ended up being mutual, ended up getting to a
point where we both realized that we couldn't keep going
on the way we were. We just weren't giving each

(49:54):
other what we both needed, and it was a constant
back and forth and we just couldn't get on the
same page. And so I guess the reasoning behind the
split was just not being able to see eye to
eye on a lot of things. And he specifically you
want to open up about no, just um, you know,

(50:15):
things that she needed she didn't feel that I was
able to give her, and then vice versa, and it
was kind of just this um never ending cycle of
did you feel like you were giving that and that
she that she thought that she was giving what you needed?
Or is it something like you guys were just two
people that were never meant to give and take from

(50:36):
each other. I think we're both stubborn people, and I
think we've tried. There's not like one issue or one
thing that's just like, well, that's what caused. It was
just stuff that continued to develop and just kind of

(50:58):
uh get piled on one another. And then I just
got the point where we're gonna do it, Sean, I
want to pause here, uh and just say thanks. I
do think your your intention of saying, hey, maybe somebody
out there listening to this could could feel I think
the the feeling of pain and vulnerability is never easy

(51:20):
to share. I think, especially for for minutes, it seems
to be hard. And you've done that today, and so
somebody out there listening, I guarantee goes out like I'm
not alone. And that's that's really why we started this
podcast two years ago, uh, is to talk about the
Bachelor um and somehow through that use it as an
avenue for that people to watch The Bachelor enjoy The Bachelor,
to know that the people that do The Bachelor are

(51:42):
are still human, and then as a result, we can
share that we're not you're not alone. As as you
watch this and you see people cry and you see
people feel pained, I want to lighten it up for
a second. Um, before we end with a couple final
questions for you, I want Ashley to do what she
does best, because as I guarantee you, she has some
pretty ridiculous questions to ask you first. So um, Sean,

(52:05):
before we end this kind of on a more somber note,
if you don't mind, I want to take some time
for Ashley to take it away. I only we've ever
gone from this sad to like questions. No, No, I'm
not depressing at all. I think I think the I
don't know, you know everybody in this room. There's there's

(52:26):
five of us in the room right now. I think vulnerability, authenticity,
genuine nous and that like rawness is attractive to so
many and I think it's very rare that we're able
to share in those moments with each other and and
and so as a result, No, I don't think it's depressing.
I actually just think it feels like life. It just
feels like life in here. It feels like we can

(52:48):
all just take a deep breath and be like, yeah,
things are sometimes really great. We can we can become
numb to the pain and numb too to the things
that hurt. But sometimes life just max us in the
face and we have to talk about it. And and
it's moments like that now, Um, that I think I'm
most attract to as I get older is the moment
that we can say no, like, sometimes life just hurts,

(53:09):
and so no, not depressing, I just think it. It
feels really heavy in here in a really relatable way. Um.
And on that note, what was your man crush? I'm
standing right next to him. No, I know that's not
true my man crush. Um, that's a good one. When

(53:36):
I watched movies Aberty crushes, Lamb. That's a lamb question. Cushes,
I'll be honest, I really thought you were gonna just
say Ryan Gosling. I do like the goss A big
fan of Jake Jillen hall it too. He's Jake the Snakes.
The Man Leo. Leo is another one of them. They're

(53:56):
all three really fantastic choices. What was the last movie
that made you cry or move to you just watch
one recently? I think Marley and Me. All right, yeah, yeah,
I remember when I first saw that movie. I had
ended at one o'clock in the morning. I just watched

(54:17):
it for the first time a couple of years ago,
and then my sister and I had to wake my
dad up with the FaceTime and be like, let me see.
I have to say, LUSI, um, real quick, can you
imagine being the father of Ashley Lauren? How much fun
that's got to be. I've met Lauren, but I need
to seem I mean, just unbelievable. Ashley's they're crying it

(54:39):
to in the morning. He's nice to be like, all right, um,
what is the worst movie you've ever seen? Um? Paul
Blart The Mall Coup. I never saw it, but it
looked really bad for me. It's the Love Guru. Yeah,
that's I walked out to like Paul Bart three or four.

(55:04):
I was shocked that they were able to make a
sequel to that. And lastly, your first concert? What was that?
Dave Matthews Band, Hartford, Connecticut. I'm se my surprised by that.
That was like a big smoke weed at that concert. UM,

(55:24):
no comments. I think I was pretty young. I think
I was probably like fourteen. My buddies just went to
a Dave Matthews concert. It's his eighteen and he never
smokes ever, he hates smoking. He smoked at this concert.
He faced timey. His eyes are red and he's just
having a panic attacking. He said, Well, lesson learned. Don't

(55:45):
try to be cool, buddy. UM, drugs aren't cool. Hey, Uh,
Sean again, thank you. UM. This is more in general
for anybody listening, and also I want to invite anybody
listening to please e mail us. It's been in Ashley.
iHeart media dot com. Uh. Any of your questions, UM

(56:05):
for Sean, questions for us, UH, stories of breakup, stories
of pain. Um. You know, if we're gonna be vulnerable
with you, we we want to also offer the arena
and the opportunity for you, for you to be vulnerable
with us, And so email us and Sean to end here. UM.
Two final questions. One is as a friend of yours,

(56:27):
as somebody that loves you. UM is somebody that also
still loves Caitlin. And I know Ashley loves Caitlin. UM,
but just as friends in general, How can friends best
support people that are going through breakups? Just be there
for them no matter what and just listen like you've
done for me. I called you. I think you were
in the Dominican right, Yeah, I was with David Ortiz

(56:50):
was and you took time away probably an hour, hour
and a half even with like a three or four
second delay when we talk to each other, just offering advice. Yeah,
and just being there. I've really learned, Uh, you know
who I can count on, and um, that's I guess
been a positive through all this. Um, yeah, just be there,

(57:10):
be there. One of our mutual friends, nas producer on
the show, who is no longer a producer, she created
something called Heartbroken Anonymous, and it's basically an a a
meeting every month for people who are heartbroken and so
they can just talk out their feelings with other people
in similar situations. Are you trying to get me to go?
I'm just thinking that if you are here on a

(57:31):
Valentine's Day, she's doing on Valentine's Day. Cool. Um, Now,
I think that's a good idea. Actually that that group,
just let you know, has grown tremendously, so it's it's actually, yeah,
it kind of relates really well with this. Just everybody
off the Bachelor seasons. They just bill onto. There have
been some alums at the meetings, but I think it's
gone really well and it's interesting to think that we're

(57:52):
communities are connecting over pain. I don't know, I think
that's good. I think that's church kind of should be.
Um that's another topic. Hey, Uh, final question for you body,
how do you move forward? Just continue what I'm doing
and uh, I'm trying to stay positive and um really

(58:13):
just focusing on the good of my life and knowing
that there is this whole other side to this that
I'll get to. I might take a little bit of time,
but um, like I said, I am, I am a
lucky guy and a lot of aspects of my life.
So it's just powering through it and it's moving on

(58:36):
like I've always done, like you've always done, like everybody
listening to this is always done. That's all I can do.
You go see Sean at the booth Camp Jim in
Nashville or uh you goldn't go and download this app
at booth camp app dot com. Sean Ben, we appreciate

(58:56):
you buddy's coming on by. Uh you know in depth.
Was really designed to go deep into topics that typically
don't get the opportunity to talk about. And we work
you know, closely right now with The Bachelor, and um,
you know, the show has been something that we've watched,
Ashley and I has. I've watched for years for entertainment

(59:20):
and for joy and to take our mind off of things.
You drink wine, you eat cheese, and you celebrate with friends,
and you watch people pick roses. And then sometimes we
have instances like Sean's here, like yours and like mine,
and I would say every season and most people that
participate in the show, they have a story from the
show that transcends reality television. And as I said, we

(59:42):
worked close to The Bachelor. And this week, on this
week's episode, there is a moment maybe the most real, vulnerable,
most difficult moment to ever get through in Bachelor history.
It it's sobering, it's it's tough, and and and the Bachelor,

(01:00:04):
you know, sent it to us so we can talk
about We want to talk about it with you today, uh,
and then we also want to talk about it more
in depth on Monday. But but here's the scenario. Um, well,
you're gonna watch on Monday. Uh. It's a topic that
we've actually broached a couple of times on this podcast
with Ashley Spivey a few a few weeks ago. Um,

(01:00:25):
we've you know, I mentioned and on that podcast that
I know somebody very close to me who has been
a victim of sexual assault. And uh. And on this
week's episode of The Bachelor, Kalin and Colton sit down,
um for their after date dinner. And and typically with
those dinners, UM, it is the time that you're building relationship,

(01:00:47):
you're talking about things that that make you who you are.
It helps the Bachelor Bachelor understand the contestants better, and
it helps the audience and understand the contestants better. And
we've said it last week actually actually that you know,
there was something about Klin that we just weren't getting yet,
Like we felt like there was more to this story
and we thought that like that we we kind of

(01:01:09):
she had brought up topics about herself. She had said
there's more to me, you know, than than when I'm communicating,
But we didn't know what that was. And this week
we found out what it is. And so Calin sits
down with Colton and shares with him that in college,
she was at a party. At this party, her drink

(01:01:30):
was drugged um, and the story continues to wear her
herself and I think it was three of her friends
find themselves naked the next morning without any memory of
what happened the night before. With that, she she concludes,
through some some very obvious factors that she was a

(01:01:50):
victim UM and also survivor of sexual assault. As I'm
watching this, it's obviously d but it's obviously UM a
moment that she's sharing now with the world. Colton is
listening to her and I and I just felt like, Okay,
this seems to be a topic once again that continues
to get brought up. How often does this happen? How

(01:02:12):
many people are out there saying I am a survivor
and I have been a victim of sexual assault? And
this is what I found out. According to a study
done in this year of women admit to being a
victim of sexual assault, eight percent of men of our populace. Okay,

(01:02:33):
but we have the clip from The Bachelor this Monday night.
I just want to clarify you guys, this isn't a spoiler.
This is something that ABC gave to us because they
want us to open this dialogue on the topic and
for you guys to all watch it so that you
can come to us with some of your thoughts and
feelings and we can discuss it more on our regular
show on Monday night. Thank you, Thank you for being

(01:02:58):
you have it to open up to me too. M hm. Yeah,
so I think that's maybe why I feel so safe
with you. You're incredibly strong, you know. Thank you. I

(01:03:31):
feel like I've been through hell and back, but I
think every time I opened up, it makes me stronger,
and I'm able to take a little piece of me
back that was broken by I'm way stronger than I
ever imagined. H Okay, I wouldn't open up with him

(01:03:54):
about this if I didn't feel so safe with him.
Everything about our relationship feels natural and feels real and
feels authentic, and it just it feels right. I don't

(01:04:15):
think I've ever had like a connection the way that
Golden and I have one sounds really sold plight to
ourself sort gold lights. This is so beautiful. It just
feels like it's us. I know that I can definitely
see myself fond in love with him. I'm just do

(01:04:38):
so confident in us. I mean, I don't really know
if I have words. You know, it's that was like
what probably the deepest moment I've ever watched on The Bachelor. Um,
I feel like there is like an amazing amount there's

(01:04:59):
like a there's obviously there's something between them now that
is going to be unlike what he has to anybody else,
because I don't think you get that vulnerable. I don't
know that he's gonna share a moment that vulnerable with
another person. So I think they're always going to have
like a little special spot for each other. Well. Also,
you know we've we've spoken about before and in life

(01:05:21):
in general, let's you know, again, this transcends reality television.
Let's not this isn't you know in the vacuum of
the Bachelor. Now, let's say in life in general, everybody
has a story. You meet Calin for the first time,
and you go, there's something more to this woman that
I want. I'm understanding. She's beautiful, and she's smart, and
she's intelligent, she's she's gritty, but there's something more. And

(01:05:42):
I look at you, Ashley, and I'm saying, you know,
you're the same thing as I would just say about Calin.
I'm like, but there's something more. It's our stories behind
the layers that pull out who we actually are. This
is one of those circumstances we were able to see
somebody's story that has now shaped Kalin forever being a
victim of sexual soul. I don't want to undervalue or

(01:06:02):
just kind of gloss over what that means, that affects
your life forever. I am not a victim, right. I
can't claim to understand completely where she's coming from, but
what I can say is we can read about it,
we can understand it, and we can listen to it.
And when we're listening to Calin, we know that shaped
everything in her life since then. And I don't want

(01:06:24):
to say that it's nice to hear. I can't find
the right word again, but there's something about the way
that she told Coulton how because he's a virgin, she
feels so comfortable with him. Yeah, um right, because of that,
like that he is not a threat to her in anyway,
that she just feels cozy. One topic for Monday that

(01:06:45):
I want to discuss his shame. Calin feels an enormous
amount of shame coming off of this she brings it
up to Colton Um. She holds a lot of regretting
her heart about it. She said her friends have kind
of covered up. I want to talk to to to you, Ashley.
I want to hear or from our listeners. Please email
us at been In. Actually I heart media dot com
about the topic of shame and how much that has
affected Calin's life based on a scenario that she did

(01:07:09):
not control that somebody and their wickedness and evilness did
to her and now she's talking about it and we
want to talk about with you. Make sure you're tune
in Monday night to The Bachelor to see uh this
for yourself. Um, see the extended clip and have this
open dialogue and conversation that Caitlin has helped us start. Um.

(01:07:30):
We know it's been heavy you guys today. It's been
a deep episode, but we enjoy you guys being here
with us and getting getting to know people on a
deeper level. We look forward to Monday night and we'll
talk to you then. Ashley. It's good to see you.