Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
with i R Radio, another almost Famous podcast. This week
We're pumped to be talking today. It's me again, yeah
Ben uh, and today is a boy's episode. Ashley had
her time with the girls, now I'm gonna have my
time with two boys today on the podcast, we have
(00:21):
some special guests are Lion Dyke who was the Bachelor,
and Jason Mesnick who was a bachelor, and then myself
who was a bachelor at one point. We're here today
to talk about what it's like, uh, to fall in love,
to switch maybe our interest at times, and ultimately to
find the one that was always meant for us. Our
(00:42):
first guest is a guy who knows what it's like
to do the switch, but also to find love in
the end and the love that is ever lasting and
a love that is beautiful. In fact, before we brought
him on the podcast, he was actually holding his new
beautiful daughter uh and had to pass it off to
his wonderful wife before he started talking. Our Lindyke. Welcome
to the Almost Famous podcast. What's up? How are you buddy?
(01:03):
I'm good man. Hey. First off, let's talk about your
life before we get into the mess that was Peter's season,
especially the conclusion, Uh, you are a dad, you are
a husband? Wow? How quickly? Uh, world's flip and things happen.
How are you holding up? Things are good, you know,
(01:25):
luckily it's really nice weather here in Arizona, US. We've been,
you know, going on walks and going on bike rides,
but kind of avoiding big crowds. And but yeah, it's
been good. You know. I think that it's some obviously
stressful for everyone, but we've been taking care of our neighbors,
went to the grocery store for our neighbor who's elderly.
(01:46):
And it's just been It's interesting, but you know, it
keeps us home. We're watching a lot of TV, and
obviously we watched Peter season um and it was very
very entertaining a lot to say, yeah, well let's dive
into it man. Uh speaking of entertaining, Uh, we we
saw the whole season mixed reviews throughout the season. Right.
(02:08):
We came into it with high expectations for Peter. I
had high expectations for him. I know him personally. He
is a great dude. Uh. He's really a kind man
who was always great to me. That allowed me to
kind of involve myself when he needed me into his
bachelor experience. However, some of his probably I guess biggest
false one would be his uh just how nice he
(02:31):
is uh forced him to not put his foot down
maybe as much as he should have all the way
leading up to the very end when he proposed to Hannah.
And my question for you are and let's talk about
it together, as he should he have ever proposed to Hannah.
I think in that moment, you know, you're trying to
do what's write for yourself and what you think, um
(02:51):
is probably right for the situation. You know. I think
there's a lot of pressure that comes with uh proposal
day sleep, coming from somebody who proposes somebody and then
had some second thoughts on it immediately after. I can
see the pressure of having to propose that day, UM,
(03:12):
So I can sort of see where his mindset where
it was on that level. The only thing I don't
agree with was, you know, obviously Madison left, and his
heart seemed to be really with Madison, so it almost
felt like a second choice. Uh. And also to make
Madison and to to you know, obviously say her name
during the proposal was a bit odd to me because
(03:36):
you could see his head was still sort of in
that space. Um, So I guess the short answer is, no,
he shouldn't have proposed. I guess the more complicated answer
is is that you know, as we all know, there's
a lot of pressure that comes with proposing at the
end of this television show, and I think that got
to him. Let's sit there for a thing, because you
(03:59):
and I can both late on this, right. I mean,
it's I didn't propose to the woman that I didn't
end up choosing. Um, but I did say publicly that
I fell in love with two women and then neither
relationship worked out for me, And so I can see
the turmoil and the confusion on that last day and
how hard it is to know that you have two
(04:20):
people that you care a lot about and that you
believe you care a lot about standing in front of you,
knowing that somebody is going to go home, or in
Peter's case, somebody already did go home. For any out
there listening, are tell us what it is like to
stand up there and how confusing it is leading up
to those last moments, Like, just emotionally, just walk us
(04:41):
through what it's like even the night before as you
start to process what you're gonna do. I mean, it's
really nerve wracking. You know, I can only draw from
my experience, and you know, I had this overwhelming feeling
that um I think from the beginning of the show,
a lot of these uh decisions that are made almost
(05:02):
become more than just your own opinion, but the opinion
of people around you. And you know, you really don't
have that many people to lean on because your family
only meets the girls for one afternoon and it's really
hard to you know, side one way or the other.
And to sort of get help from your family is
also really challenging because they really aren't seeing the big picture. UM.
(05:26):
I could see that he had a lot of pressure
from his family, UM, you know, to get engaged to Hannah,
and they seem to really favor her, which didn't help
going into the last week that you know, he was facing.
And I think that big thing for me is, um
I really leaned on the people around me, and at
the time, I hate to talk about it because it's
(05:48):
already kind of hard to talk about. But Lauren is
more the risk. She was more the risk because she
had trouble opening up. We didn't really develop as far
along as other relationships because she was nervous in front
of cameras. And I know how much I cared about her,
but I was so scared to take that risk. And
(06:08):
I think in the same sort of situation you saw
as soon as Mats and left, I feel like his
his focus change because Hannahan was always there for him.
She was so um she was basically bending over backwards
to make sure that he was okay, that his heart
was okay. And you know, she was a great individual,
great woman, and I feel like she was a great choice.
(06:32):
But at the end of the day, you really have
to think, to think hard and really understand, you know,
where your emotions are. And I think that's something that
I obviously had difficulty with um and he did too.
But I think that the wrong was to um ignore
those feelings and to just go with what everyone else
(06:53):
thought was the best option for him and UM in
a small way, I could definitely relate to that. I mean,
and we say all of this, and I can I
just hear the listeners now for both of us is
how can you be critical of Peter when you've been
in that position and you know. Are you and I
have have done? You know this in different ways but
have similar storylines to how this played out for us.
(07:15):
What we're saying is you learn from experience, like are
you and I both have been there? We we've we've
experienced those last few hours, We've experienced those last few days.
It's not easy. It is confusing. Uh. You get infiltrated
with knowledge from different and from different emotions and feelings
from different levels, from different people. And the one thing
(07:35):
you said there are that I want to sit on
for a second is how important the family is in
this decision, which is why I think a wise family
and why it probably upset me the most this whole
season is never Peter personally didn't upset me. It was
how his family handled it. Is how passionate they were
about being right and that they knew what's best when
they had just gotten there Like that is so unfair
(07:58):
to him, which led him to situation that he's in
now after the final UH finale, which is no press,
nobody's talking about it. He feels probably pretty isolated. I'm
sure he's back down fine terms with his family, but
how I mean, did your family what was their experience
like on the show, because I know for mine, they cared,
they wanted to be in the know, but they didn't
(08:20):
speak up too strongly because they're aware that they hadn't
been around for like three months this whole thing was
going on. Yeah, I think I was definitely looking for
some clarity for my family, and you know, they didn't
really give me that clarity because I felt like they
felt Both women in the end were you know, great,
great women, and they were great choices for me, but
(08:41):
so they really you know, lead it up to me
and they didn't sway me one way or the other.
I couldn't imagine being, you know, in love with someone
and then my family saying that that person is not
right for me, you know, because I would almost push
me more towards them for some reason. I don't know why,
but yeah, I could. Peter's family it was frustrating to
watch too, because you wanted them. You're just kind of
(09:03):
sitting on her couch going like just support him, just
like lift him up, you know, and I felt like
they were helping tear him down. And it just was
so hard to watch because you know, at the end
of the day, your family is all you've got. And
it's just so hard that he didn't get that support.
And I really did feel for him. And I don't
know if you know much about how this looks kind
(09:24):
of after the fact, but obviously at this point Peter
doesn't feel like he has the support as viewers were
watching it going, It doesn't feel like he has the
support from his family. You've been in a situation of
extreme difficulty where it feels like, I mean, I'm not
going to speak for you. You You can agree to disagree.
It feels like the world from vattination is screaming at you.
(09:46):
What are you doing? Uh? This is wrong, this is
me whatever. You probably feel pretty alone. What do you
think Peter's feeling like right now? Since all this has
gone down end? It was just announced this week that
Madison and Peter are no longer together either. So now,
what is it like to sit in that season of thinking,
(10:08):
oh my gosh, I've made not made a mistake necessarily,
but like the world's out getting Yeah. I mean, I
don't know, it's tough, you know. I feel like he's
recovering pretty well though he's hanging out with Kylie Jenner heard,
so I don't know what that is all about and
like just the whole Like Mathison hanging out with Sleena Gomez.
(10:29):
I'm like, where are we in this world where all
of a sudden we're hanging out with Selena Gomez and
Kylie Jenner like the next day. But um, you know,
obviously he's probably feeling very alone right now and you
just gotta lean on your friends. And um, you know,
we had that same situation Laura and I, but we
had each other and we knew that we were going
(10:51):
to last. We knew we were gonna get married and
to have kids, like that's all we wanted for for
our little family, and you know, our immediate family supported us.
That really felt good. Um, and the decision that I made.
You know, I've talked with all my friends about it,
talked with my family about it, and everyone was on
board because they knew that I wasn't happy and they
(11:13):
knew that Lauren was the person for me. After I
talked to them for weeks on end about you know,
feeling conflicted and what should I do and the world's
gonna hate me, and they just said, you know what,
this is a television show. This is gonna be two
weeks of your life where people are going to be
up in arms, but it's the rest of your life.
You've got to make that decision for you. Um. And
that's sort of where I kind of, you know, cast
(11:36):
that judgment aside and said, this is what I'm going
to do, and if people aren't okay with it, then
they're just gonna have to get over it, you know.
And I just for Peter. I just feel for him
because it's just the ending that no one wanted. You know,
everyone wants to see somebody happy at the end of this,
and I think genuinely people really felt bad for Peter,
(11:58):
where I think that was a little bit opposite of
my season. People were just angry at me. Um. I
think it helped his case that Hannah and didn't become
Bachelorette because they would have lifted her up more and
I think they would have, you know, played more of
the sinister role on his side of things. Um. And
so I think they were a little I think they
were pretty easy on him, to be honest, um. But hey,
(12:22):
you know, with the ending that we got and you know,
he's not with Maddie anymore, I'm happy that they weren't
harder on him. And I feel like the overall concerned
or the overall feeling of this ending is a feeling
of feeling bad for everyone involved. And I think the
biggest hate that anyone received was Barbed at the end
(12:42):
of So maybe maybe that was a tactical decision for
Barbed to be so over the top so that it
would take the heat off of Peter. I don't know,
I did. I think I saw a tweet. I mean
maybe Ashley or somebody tweeted like what if it was
genius a Barbed to say, oh my gosh, my son's
getting hate. I'm gonna throw myself the grenade and take
one for the team. And I mean literally, it is impressive.
(13:05):
And I don't know Barbed personally at all. I do,
like I said, no Peter, and I like Peter, but
it is impressive that somebody can literally be on the
TV for like a half of episode in total and
coust so much hysterica, like it's it's insane to me.
Are you mentioned it earlier? And I don't know how
to phrase this question, um, so if it comes off wrong,
(13:26):
just ask for follow up here. Um, but you called
Lauren a risk and they said this during my season
A lot when I was kind of coming down to
the final decision was as we talked it through, it's like, hey, one,
you know what you're getting, at least you think you
know you're getting. The other one is a risk because
maybe the relationship isn't there yet, or maybe the family
looks at it a little uh like maybe hasn't accepted
(13:47):
you in yet or whatever. But both And we're gonna
have Jason Mesnick on here and just a little bit.
And the reason we're doing this episode is because all
of our stories are are similar in some way to
Peters and we can all relate with the switcher rou
or you can relate with the mixed emotions or you know,
maybe falling in love with multiple people those kind of things.
But for you and Jason, you did the switcher rou
(14:10):
and it worked, and it worked really well for both
of you. Why do you think it has worked? And
and I mean you have marriages and kids now, Like
this isn't this work like where it's like, oh cool,
they have a bachelor relationship. Now you are married with
kids and so is Jason. Why why is the switcher
rou a moment of such clarity? And I mean, maybe
(14:33):
you could tell me if I'm wrong. I don't remember
a switcher rous necessarily not working well. I think because
and that this is just coming from my perspective. You know,
obviously there's people that hearts get broken in the process,
but you know, in any breakup that's the case, and
you know there's I think both with Jason and either
(14:55):
was never the intention of hurting anyone. And I just
want people to know that I think that as an
amazing woman, and I'm so happy that she's happy and
she had her time on the Bachelorette and I and
I really was. It was really nice to see that
she got her happy ending and I'm really I just
want to kind of say that first before I get
into this next piece. UM. I think the risk it
(15:18):
takes to break off an engagement in front of eight
million people and cast that aside because that relationship there
was something there for you to get engaged, Otherwise you
wouldn't have done it. So that person obviously does mean
a lot to you, but you you knew in your
heart that this other person could be your forever love.
(15:40):
And I think that the bravery it takes to do
that is something that um not only um my family
realized what I was doing, but also Lauren realized what
I was doing, and I was going to face a
lot of judgment, and it's because of love. Like I
just wanted something that I knew would as the lifetime,
(16:01):
and when I realized that that Lauren was that person, um,
it almost didn't matter what you know, general public thought,
with the viewers at home thought like I knew what
was right, and that was an overwhelming feeling that I
just couldn't um cast aside. And so I think that
with Jason and myself knowing that that's the person for
(16:23):
me and the person for him, like the risk is
worth it. So I think this ending was different because
Chris is the one that sort of orchestrated or tried
to orchestrate this um rekindling of Maddie and Peter's relationship.
I think if it would have came from Peter, Peter
would have been like, no, this is what I gotta
(16:45):
do and ran after Maddie. I think the situation would
be different. Obviously the broken up it didn't work and
it should have probably been left alone. UM. But I
think in Jason's case and in my case, you know,
the the risk was worth it and it was because
there was just an overwhelming feeling of knowing us right.
(17:07):
I I'm sorry to like just continue to sit on things,
but I think it's important because it's intriguing to me.
Is when you what does it feel like to know
what's right? Like, can you walk us through at least
your experience when you're with somebody you're tossing and turning.
There's obviously anxiety that's involved as and I say this
even with the perspective of Peter has gotta been feeling
(17:29):
this and then you finally put your foot in the
ground and you say, I've got to make this decision,
like I have to do this. What what is that
process and experience, like, especially knowing very well that there's
gonna be millions upon millions upon millions of people that
are watching this, knowing this and invested into this. Yeah, well,
I think for me, you know, you know, going back
(17:51):
on that time on the show, you know, the night
before the proposal, I was pretty torn because, um, you know,
everyone was saying, like, you know, this person is good
for you, you know what you have. You know, she's
she's an incredible woman, and she's in you know, the
relationship I had with Becca was very easy going. She's
(18:12):
she's so easy to talk to, She's very comfortable from
the cameras, and it progressed slowly, but it was like,
you know, it's something that was very solid. Um. The
relationship with Lauren, you know, there was an undeniable pulled
towards each other. We had a little trouble communicating, you know,
there was times where I didn't know if she really
(18:34):
liked me, so it was kind of a risk, you know,
And and towards the end, she finally sort of told
me how she felt. And it was this relationship I
had established the entire time was sort of always the
one that was in the back of my head with
Becca because it was solid, and now we had this,
I had this feeling of just like wanting to know
(18:57):
more about Lauren. But I also I also felt like
it was a little bit risky because I didn't really
know where she stood um and she had really a
tough time on camera. So the only time that I
could really get a glimpse of her was kind of
like in between shots, or sometimes would be in a
car together heading to a different location, and all of
a sudden I would see this like different person. So
when overnight's happened. There was a shift all of a sudden,
(19:19):
and I realized, you know, that I really cared for Lauren,
and that I was in love with her, and I
knew other in love with her, but that I knew
a different side of her at that point. So I
got down to the final moments, and you know, I
was having to make my decision, and I just remember
a lot of production was saying, like reminding me the
(19:40):
things that I talked about in past, you know, with Becca,
and reminding me of the concerns I had with Lauren,
and it just kind of got in my head and
I just thought, this is the right decision for me,
based on, um, you know what, what's good on paper.
Weird thing to think about when you're the bad where
you have to make some types of decisions, like it's
(20:01):
a logical decision or this an emotional decision. And you know,
at the end of the day, I'm not young, you know,
I want I wanted to be married. I want to
move forward with my life with somebody, and I felt
like this was like a very solid decision. And then
when I made the decision, just the thought of Lauren
kept creeping in and Um, you know, I had trouble
(20:23):
sleeping at night, and you know, her birthday was right
after proposal day a couple of days later, and her
shoes stick on the way home from a producer, and
I've thought about, you know, how she was feeling, and
and it just like never went away, and it just
it built more and more. And I was very open
with Becca during that time, and you know, I would
tell her, hey, look, I'm thinking about Lauren, and I'm
(20:46):
so sorry that I'm thinking about her. But you know,
it's such a a weird way to end a relationship
and start a new one. And she always said to me,
you know, once you're fully in and once you're fully
two feet into this relationship, let me know. And that
was sort of, um, something that we always talked about
and obviously never got there and then we broke up.
(21:07):
But she was very supportive of me, and we were
very open and we talked a lot about it. And
you know, I feel terribly about the fact that I
had to talk about this with her because you know,
she was my fiance at the time, and it's just
so hard to think back on that time because you know,
a lot of a lot of emotions were happening, and um,
so you know, fast forward to you know, it was
(21:31):
right before New Year's and you know New Year's you
always think about the one person you want to kiss
on New Year's Eve, and I just had this overwhelming
feeling that I had to be with Lauren. And that's
sort of when the ball started rolling. So it was
about a month of um, being engaged to Rebecca and
and then realizing that I needed to be with Lawrence.
So and then once that ball ball started rolling, production
(21:54):
jumped on it and they really sort of drove home
the fact that, you know, we want to showcase this
as a more of a love story. I mean, people
always sort of argue with me on this, but um,
you know, I'm no dummy. You know, I know that
if things get put on camera, then there's maybe a
(22:15):
way that she could have became the bachelorette. And I
feel like production with anything at that, not that they
tell me who they're going to pick or who they're
not going to pick, but they said, you know, she
would have that possible opportunity if we film things, because
it would give her time to heal, in time to
move on from it, and we could all explain it
on a f R and you know, hopefully we both
(22:36):
get a happy ending out of all this, and that's
sort of how the thing went. Because of Jason's season,
it was such a shock for everybody a live show.
There was no one in the audience. It was just
Chris Jason, and you know, the two of them, and
it was sort of awkward and it was difficult, and
you know, Melissa Eyecroft felt completely blindsided. And I wanted
(22:59):
to I wanted to basically give everyone the opportunity to
go along with me on this because I feel like
that's what the whole show was anyway, and I felt
it would give people more context, and obviously I was
being pushed to do that at the same point by production.
You know who at the time, or your best friends,
and they were the people that you lead on for
(23:20):
advice and so just looking back on all that, it
was a wild time. But I feel like, you know,
there was this overwhelming feeling that I had to do
what was right for me, and I just knew that
Lauren was the person that I'd spent the rest of
my life with and that's what I needed to pursue.
It is a crazy story and and r I'll say this.
I don't know if anyways ever told you this. It
(23:41):
is now and I always has been. I guess a
beautiful love story bringing you now, uh to your daughter
Lessie who was born on May of two thousan nineteen,
and your terrific wife who has came from this experience.
Ari and Lauren will celebrate you as well as Leslie
on this podcast. Thanks for coming on and sharing your
(24:01):
insights today, I think, uh, and I know what it
will do is allow our listeners to get a perspective
and hopefully relate with Peter a little bit. Also know that, hey,
he was under some tough, tough circumstances. And all we
hope for now is what we've said really since your season,
because we change our perspective on this podcast, is we
just hope for a happy ending for everybody, somehow, some way,
(24:22):
Ari B. Lindyke, thank you for coming on the almost
famous podcast and talking to us about what it's like
to do the switcher rue if it works or sometimes doesn't. Thanks, funny,
appreciate it. Hey, thanks all right, all right, take you easy.
We're gonna take a breaking come back and talk with
Jason Mesnick, the original switcher ruwer er Er. This is
(24:55):
a boy's podcast. There are no UH women guests today
because we're talking about from a bachelor perspective what it's
like to fall from for multiple people UH. And two
people that are on the podcast actually went back and
did a switcher rue. That was our right Lion Dyke,
who most recently did it UH with his now wife
(25:17):
UH and mother of his child, Lauren. And we also
have Jason Mesnick, one of my favorite people in the world,
now on the line talking about his experience as the
Bachelor and what it's like to do the switcher rue. Jason,
Welcome back to the almost famous podcast. What's up, Buddy,
famous favorite people in the world. I love you, buddy.
(25:38):
I I think you know that. Yeah, thank buddy. I
I just recently saw Jason and Seattle at the Bachelor
Live on stage show and at the time I was
hosting it on, Jason and his wife are out there
with me on stage helping pass out a group date card.
(25:59):
We're kind of laughing at the time of what life
would look like if the coronavirus spread, because we had
just gotten word. I think that week that the very
first case was in Seattle and now look at us, Jason.
I'm at home in Indiana with my parents, and well,
I guess you're probably still in Seattle. But wow, how
life changes. Man, It is crazy, and you know, because
(26:20):
it's being here. I live in Kirkland where that um,
those first cases came out at a senior home in
my hometown, so we were kind of feeling these the
virus really early on, just in just here in Kirkland.
I mean, I think that's interesting. How how has it
affected your life if you if you've been around U
since the beginning, Uh, you're one of the first cases
(26:42):
were really close to your hometow I mean it's in
your hometown. Has it affected your day to day life
at all? Well, one, you know, there's no school, So
the biggest thing is, you know, they initially canceled school
for two weeks and then as of a week ago,
they canceled it for the next month and a half.
A lot of it is, you know, parenting and trying
to figure out, you know, how do we balance you know,
(27:05):
our work if we can go into work with you know,
kind of a summer schedule for the kids. So that's
probably the biggest challenge I think for every parent. Has
it spread I mean, just to be clear again, you
the first case of coronavirus was detected in the city
that you live in. Has it spread quickly throughout the
city or has it felt like it's been a pretty
(27:27):
isolated incident. No. I mean I think the numbers show
that I think that there's um, you know, hundreds of
cases now. Um. And you know, again, the people that
we're seeing, you know, that are severely affected, are people
that are you know, uh, compromised immune systems. Um, but
there are you know, I was you know, I'm in
(27:47):
real estate, so weirdly enough, Uh, the real estate market
hasn't slowed down at all. You know, people are buying
houses like crazy because they it still need places to
live in. Interest rates are really low. But in any stance,
like if you're like what I see in my day
to day, if you're trying to sell a house, you
may not want people in your house at all, you know,
just the fear of spreading the virus. So you are
(28:09):
seeing you are seeing. I mean, nothing is really open
right now as of as of today, the only things
that are open are really pharmacies and supermarkets. Jeez man,
that is I don't know how to digest it like
it's nothing we've ever seen. Like I remember where I
was and what was happening at nine eleven. But this,
you know, it didn't physically, you know, impact my day
(28:31):
to day life outside of watching the news. This is everywhere.
You know, you can't go to a restaurant, you can't
go to bar. Every gym's closed down as of this morning. Um.
And then all of our kids are at home like
it's summer, and you know, the kids don't care. The
kids feel like it's summertime. Uh yeah, I can't imagine
what's life right now to be a parent, and your
kids don't probably, I mean especially younger kids don't understand
(28:52):
what's going on. They don't understand how uh in a
sense critical this time is. And so yeah, they're out
there is laughing and joining themselves when you go the park,
when you go to movies, et cetera, and you have
to tell them sorry, Like you can go to the park,
maybe you can walk like through the trails in the woods,
you can kind of like get out and run around
the street. But for the most part, kids, you've got
(29:12):
to be stuck inside. It's gotta be a crazy time
to be a parent. Yeah, I mean just weird. You know,
I think we're we're still trying to like, you know,
it's okay to go outside, but you know, you're not
tackling your friends like you would if you see somebody,
you know, it's you know, the people around here, at
least the experts are saying, you know, it's okay to
go out and do things. It's okay to want to walk,
(29:33):
it's okay to go on a hike. You know, it's
okay to do those things. But just don't, you know,
wrestle with people. Like, if you're gonna wrestle with your friends,
don't do that kind of thing if you're a kid. Yeah. Well,
I don't know the last time you're wrestling with your friends, Jason,
But it's been a while that I've wrestled with mine,
so I think we're good there. Um Jason speaking of wrestling. Uh,
switching gears from the coronavirus because today's podcast is a
(29:56):
boy's focused podcast with bachelors who have fallen from people
one time or done the switcher rou and we're obviously
referencing Peter's season of the Bachelor, which just happened. First off,
I got to ask you because I know sometimes you
don't get to watch. Did you watch Peter season of
The Bachelor? I didn't watch the whole thing, but Molly
looped me into the last couple episodes. You know, it
(30:18):
seems like we always kind of get wind of what's
going on somehow or some way, but you know, Molly
wasn't able to figure that out, so she had me
on kind of pins and needles at least the last
couple episodes. It's interesting how that happens before we get
do we dive in here? I remember that you and
Molly were really some of the original to podcasters that
broke down the Bachelor franchise. And now sometimes you watch,
(30:42):
sometimes you don't. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. For me,
it's just, you know, I always felt like, when you
know so much about the whole process of how how
the show has made um, the experience people go through,
you know, the kind of back end of it has
has kind of dampered my excitement and watching. But at
the same time I get it. You know, it's it's
(31:03):
for most people just a break from reality. And it
would probably be a great thing if the show was
on right now, because it would give people a break
from the panic that's going on in the rest of
the real world. Mm hmm. That's exactly what it is.
And we hope today's podcast is that as well. We
hope that the almost for this podcast takes uh some
time out of everybody's day, and this allows you to
(31:24):
think about process and relate with and also reminiscence of
these former Bachelor stories. And so Jason, we've got to
dig into years as you watch. During Peter season uh,
and we just talked about with ri Lion Dyke, Peter
gets down to the final two, Madison leaves the show
because her Peter are not compatible, leaving Peter with one
(31:46):
left handed and and he proposes to Hannah, and and
he actually during the proposal mentions Madison's name, saying she
had left, which some people would argue that it kind
of took the luster and the excitement out of the proposal.
But I want to start here, Jason. We talked to
our about it, and I think it's an interesting perspective
leading up to that final moment when you have a
(32:08):
few people left, two people left, you're laying in bed
the night before, you have an idea of what you're
gonna do, but yet you haven't done it yet. Walk
us through what your situation was like, what it was
like to be in that bed the night before a
proposal that you knew was going to be on national television. Uh. God,
that's a good point. I think. I think I have
(32:30):
a little bit different perspective just because you know, I
had a three year old at home at the time,
and I would say, almost all of my thoughts were, Okay,
am I doing the right thing for my son? And obviously,
you know, I went a long roundabout way to get
to what was write for me. But I could say
all I was thinking about is Okay, I've got to
(32:52):
take myself out of the perspective a little bit and
kind of figure out am I doing what's right for
my my son? Um? But I mean, you know as
well as I do that night before is it's like
I don't think I slept a wink, you know. And
then you know one, you know, mine is probably a
little bit different because I I wasn't at that point
in love with two people. I knew I was going
(33:13):
to pick Melissa, and I didn't even have a really
at that point of doubt that I was going to
pick her. Um, I wish you know, you know, when
you're laying in bed, you know, if I could go
back and say, like, I'm not going to propose, of
course I wouldn't. Like, there's no real that's that's obviously
one of the biggest mistakes that I made, impacting her
in a lot of other people's lives. But that night before, gosh,
(33:34):
I mean, granted, that's a decade ago now, but I
can remember not not being able to sleep a wink,
and I can remember um production staff and audio people
and you know who, you know, whoever works on the
show coming and chucking on me. You know, I felt
like every thirty minutes. So maybe they just kept me awake.
I don't know. So then you you get up the
next day, you know that Melissa is the one that
(33:56):
you're going to propose to. You're confident that this is
the right decision. Uh. And we see this kind of
with Peter. We see with Peter anathar Is where we
watch it and we we celebrate for them. There's a
love story that's that we think is being portrayed on television,
but then it's not the ending. And uh, and all
three of you have sat there and gone, oh, I'm
(34:18):
in love with somebody else. What is that process? Like,
how do you get to the point of admitting that
you're in love with somebody outside of the person that
you're engaged to? Uh? Man, you know, I think that
the challenge with the experience itself. And I wish you know,
the show is The Bachelor, it's about getting engaged. But
(34:38):
I think most people, when you're going through it, would say,
don't you wish you could just end it in, like
let's date seriously, because that's really after two months. I mean,
I mean after two months of filming or three months
of filming, you may spend forty hours with that one person.
So the truth is me, as a single dad, should
(34:59):
not have known, should not have done that, And anybody
who's going through this, Yes, some of the relationships work out,
but most don't, just because you don't get to spend
the quality of quality of time with that person to
get to know if your lives will work together, if
you guys are compatible and from every part of a
di z um. But I you know, I think I
(35:23):
knew um again. I knew that I was gonna pick
Melissa from you know, you know a while before that
final episode. I just you know, that that feeling that
you know, maybe maybe Ari had or Peter had, you know,
it's probably a little bit different for me. So I
just didn't have a doubt that, like I knew that
(35:44):
I was going to propose. I wanted to be with Melissa.
I just didn't really want, you know, my gut said
proposing it was the wrong thing. And there was a
lot of things that went into, you know, finally getting
to the proposal. But for me, it wasn't you know,
you know, Molly knows this more than anything. I wasn't
gonna pick Molly at that poem point. After two months
of that experience. For me, I was was going to
(36:05):
pick Melissa. It was it was the two months. And
this is where like you almost feel like you know
they I think in Big Brother, um uh, they have
like the off camera stuff like if you can log
on at night and say and see like what you
don't see on TV. So I think that you know,
you know as well as I do, like the two
months that you have between kind of the end of
(36:27):
filming and then you know, I got you know, I
can't remember the exact timeline from the end of filming
to when it starts airing to win, you know, you
kind of go out in public, a lot happens, and
that's actually a longer period of time than the actual
filming itself. So I think, you know, uh, Melissa and
I got to know each other a lot, and she's
gonna have a different point of view on this. But
(36:48):
you know, fast forward a decade now, Um, she's married,
has wonderful family, wonderful kids, and so am I. And
you know, I think without the show, you know, we
may not be you may have not grown our family
the way we're supposed to, and you know, me doing
some really dumb things together up there. Well, and we
(37:10):
talked about it. It's an interesting question for me because
with you and our especially the switcher rue as we
call it today worked. Um, it didn't quite work for Peter,
but there is some variables that we'll talk about here
in a second on why it probably didn't for him.
But why do you think the switcher worked? I mean,
how do you confront this other person and say I'm sorry,
(37:34):
I made a mistake in a sense, and I like you,
I would like you back, and then you make that
relationship flourish to the point where now you're married years
later with kids. Um, well, what it takes a lot
of work, you know. Secondly, I will say a lot
of this have to do with Molly, because Molly isn't
Oh my god, I can't believe you, you know, did
this to me, Like it's the worst experience. You picked
(37:55):
somebody else. She's able to live in the moment and say, like, listen,
I all the first two months of relationship in the
TV experience for what it was, and the rest of
it is just us like trying to figure out our
own relationship. So I get Molly the credit because if
she was if she was looking at it probably much
more emotionally, then it may not have worked out. But
you know, there is that period of time, especially when um,
(38:19):
you know, you kind of come from the end of
the show and uh, you know, for us, it was like,
you know, we had to you know, people were angry
at me, people were an understanding of why she was
taking me back, but that really it was her and
eye against the world at that moment. You know, it was, hey,
you know, we we got to block out you know,
the negative, negative media. We've got to block out any
(38:40):
negativity from anybody that we know and really focus on
does this work for us? And I think what was
a lot more comfortable as it was like there wasn't
the engagement ring and there wasn't any of that. It
was like, hey, can we make this relationship work in
a really normal outside of like what the media would
pick up, just in a more normal way where I
(39:00):
could fly She was living in the Midwest and in
um in Milwaukee, so I could fly out to Milwaukee,
you know, every other week, and she could fly out
to Seattle every other week and we could see each
other a lot, and just like, let the relationship go
at a much more normal place versus you know that
the speed pace you get on when you're filming the
you you just talked about it and you said, you know,
(39:22):
it feels like it's you versus the world in your
partner and you versued the world. And typically that's what
you want in a partner, right somebody can look at
and look across the table at or look beside you
and say, hey, we've got this, we can do this
no matter what life brings us here, my partner, there
is one factor that seems to be be a force
that was unable to be overcome when it comes to
(39:45):
Peter's story, and that was barbed, barbed. The mom was
very much against Madison as he was trying to build
this relationship with her. Did your family have any sort
of say or strong opinions that your friends or family
have any type a negativity towards this or they just
kind of step away. We all stepped away. I mean,
(40:06):
I mean, and the one thing I heard with Barb was,
you know, she's gonna saying he's gonna make a mistake
or he's gonta learned for himself. And you know, the
only thing is you know, and I try to look
put you know, through peers experience, I'm actually less relating
to him in you know, the switcher root part is
of it. But I'm also more relating to it as
(40:27):
a parents because you know, my son's fifteen now, like
he was thinking when filmed, Um, so I'm looking at
and I would say like I would do anything, like
I would drop anything in my world. And I'm sure
Barb would say that for her kids. But those were
the moments where like he needed her the most. He
didn't need you know, in my opinion, he didn't need
a lesson in front of millions of people. He needed
(40:47):
his mom to give him a hug. He need his
mom to to to be the crutch. And I think
that's where I you know, you know, it wasn't you know,
you know, it wasn't like her death dealing with people
and with the virus right now, where it is death,
we're dealing with you know, my dad's got cancer, knealing
with people in in a lot of different ways right now.
(41:08):
And this was like, Okay, my son made a mistake.
He shouldn't have done that. I get it, and he
really hurt somebody, but I'll tell you everybody, um Hannah
Ann and everybody involved with this will be just fine.
Time does heal all wounds. And I just again putting
my parent hat on, I just wish and I hope
to this day that he's got his family there just
(41:30):
to support him, because that's a big way I got through.
My My mom is one of my best friends, and
any time that I ever need her from for a
parenting advice or relationship, for advice from school stuff growing
up growing up, I could always call my parents. And
I mean hope that I just I just hope that
that's the case. But it felt like if I was
(41:51):
him sitting out like I saw in his eyes, it
was like, Mom, come on, like, don't you got my back?
You know, That's what I felt like, and that's where
I felt more for him, because as as a relate,
like if you take the batchelor out of it, like
we all go like we've all messed up in relationships
like it's it's it's millionized and glorified and everything in
between on camera, but that's probably how we are in
(42:15):
our real relationships because we all make mistakes and bad.
I was watching him, Jason, I was watching Peter that is,
and uh, I cannot imagine what it would be like
to be sitting on a live audience knowing what just happened,
knowing that you're close to the end and that you
made it through a really difficult breakup on national TV
(42:37):
meaning Peters with Hannah Ann and now you have your
mom kind of digging this hole for for you and
continue to do it. It would really hurt. I know
it would, and it would like I said, I watched Peter,
and it felt like you just wanted to scream out mom,
like I can't say what I want to say to
you right now because it's gonna come off wrong, but
do you not support me? Like, do you not have
(42:57):
my back? Do you not want which is best for me?
And if my I know how hard it is for
a parent, uh to go through this experience because you
meet your your child's fiancee for like a few hours
one day, you know, and then you're done and you're gone.
I know that that's hard, but it's kind of what
(43:17):
you all sign up for and sometimes that works. And
we have to always remember that. This just felt heavy
watching it back because it was a mom saying and
doing things that was not helping their child. I killed me,
I mean, and I know, like I mean myself a teenager,
I went from like being his best friend of being like,
(43:38):
you know, a guy that drives him around the basketball
practice now, but I would, you know, shauffeur, so, I
mean I would still do. Like you know, this is
gonna sound weird, but like even people who end up
on death row, I bet you their parents find some
way to remember something positive about it, right because it's
their kids. Like with with your kids, and your parent
(44:00):
knows this, like you have unconditional love with relationships like
whether you say me or Melissa or my ex wife
for you, and you know, any relationship you've had, there
are conditions, right, you can mess up, you can cheat,
you could you know, um do some terrible things physically
to somebody, but with your kids, it's unconditional. And that's
(44:21):
almost what I felt the opposite of. And I know
that there's more to every story and she was probably
just trying to protect her son from making a mistake.
But I think everybody knows, whether it's in your personal
life or like our business, like we all make mistakes
and almost I mean everything that we do, we make mistakes,
but you've got to learn from them, the growth from him.
(44:43):
It's a part that intrigues me maybe with this whole
story the most is how all of you got to
the place where you sat down and you said, hey,
I've maybe made a mistake, I've proposed or I'm with
somebody that I shouldn't be and I need to go back,
and the other option was the best option for me
(45:06):
and my future and who I want to be with.
It has to take a lot to step out there
and do that. And now we see with Peter that
he's done that and it hasn't worked out well for him.
He sits there pretty isolated right now and alone. Unlike
you and Ari, who walked out of this with a
relationship and a partner to look across the table at
and say, hey, we've got this, Peter is now alone
and he's gonna be fine. Also, he does a great dude, uh,
(45:29):
And you know he's already out there hanging out with
people and probably uh moving forward from this. But Jason,
from your wise perspective, what should Peter's next steps be
as a person, uh? As and professionally in relationships? What
does Peter do from here? Well, I mean I think
he's already you know, the first thing, you know, good
(45:51):
Morning America called and that's kind of similar question. And
I was like, he's already owned up for making a mistake.
He's owned up on TV, he's apologized. You know. I
think the hardest thing is, you know, you know this,
like you took the engagement away, that first engagement experience
away from handing and which sucks, like there's no doubt
(46:11):
about it. But she will get that, she will move on,
she will fall in love, and I'm sure she'll have
a great family. She's gonna get a lot of Thames
from the Bachelor World. She's gonna get everything and more
and probably end up being in a happier place. But
for him, he's got to he's got to learn from
his experience, which I think he did. And just you know,
(46:34):
again this is my opinion, it's like trying to stay
away from, you know, the negativity that you see in
the social world. Like it's very easy to get caught
up in that, Like I see it, like I don't
pay a ton of attention to like the negativity in
the social world, but Molly sees it all the time.
And she said, she'll say, hey, like, for example, you know,
Good Morning America wanted me to do this interview, and
(46:55):
she's like, why would you do that? And I said,
you know, I want to be able to tell people
my per perspective. And we talked a lot about Peter
owning up to what he went through and also similar
to what we're talking about, like why didn't his mom
support him? And why wasn't she able to support him?
But I think he's doing all those things. But if
he's able to support surround himself by like the true
people in his life, he'll be just fine. I mean,
(47:18):
he comes across his super genuine. I've never met him,
but you know, he comes across a super genuine, a
really good guy. And maybe those type type of people,
you know, maybe it's you know, maybe it's you, maybe
it's me, maybe it's Ri, maybe it's Peter. That we're
not cut out to be the Bachelor because we are
a little bit more emotional than the next person. And
(47:39):
that's okay too, you know, I know it makes I know,
it makes good for good TV. It does make good TV,
and it and it helps people relate with our stories.
I mean, the Mesnick is still a move that it
feels like it's shown all the time wherever I'm at,
where it's just you bawling on the side of the stairs,
on the side of a uh patio or whatever, and
(48:01):
it and it still hurts this day because I know
you're feeling it, and I know what it's like to
feel it. Uh, Jason, you are. You go down in
history as one of Baschel Nations honestly most talked about
and and I mean, I know sometimes it probably didn't
feel like it, but favorite Bachelors because of how much
we related with your story and how real and raw
you are, and it's led you to today where you're
(48:23):
happily married, um with two kids. So Jason, thanks for
giving us your time. Thank you for sharing your insights,
um into what Peter has gone through, how you can
recover from this, and what it's like to do the
old Switcher rou also holmost famous listeners. If you live
in the Seattle area and you're looking for a home,
our guy, Jason Mesnick here on the line is a
(48:45):
realtor waiting to help you fulfill your dreams with your
dream home. Jason, where can they contact you and find
you out? Oh god, I mean my contact tempo is everywhere.
It's uh even to Jason Mesnick dot com as all
my contact information and realistically myself oh six zero five
(49:06):
zero five five calling only if you really wanted to
have weird some weird like because because of my season
about Netflix now I'm getting like all these like like
as if it's happening today, like even somebody texting me
this morning, but like, how did you do that to Melissa?
I'm like, what do you mean a decade ago? But
(49:27):
I love that. That's good stuff. That's a good joke
to play on anybody, especially with whoever's pulling the strings
over there. A Netflix and ABC saying, Hey, let's just
like bring back Jason's story ten years ago to make
sure he has to relive it, re hear about it,
and talk about it for you. Yeah, well, don't worry,
You're gonna be on there one of these days. I'm
sure for a whole rehash. Hey, Jason, you appreciated man,
(49:51):
Thanks a lot, and thanks again for coming on What
a Podcast Today. To end out the podcast, we're gonna
go through some hot topics, some headlines that are happening
in Bachelor Nation right now. I don't have my amazing
(50:13):
co host, actually can Eddie here to help me break
them down, but I was gonna read through them and
I want to hear from you all on your thoughts.
As we've mentioned many times in this podcast, it is
official Peter Webber and Medicine Pruitt have ended their relationship.
It was a two day relationship, but it was officially
announced after the dramatic finale that showed Barb voicing her
(50:34):
opinion on why they should not be together. That's what
brought us UH here today, uh to to talk about
all these things with all of these bachelor's. Uh. In addition,
Bachelor producer Julie Laploca speaks out about the rumors that
she got romantic with Peter Webber. As we remember, about
half we through the season this year, the rumors came
out to Peter ended up actually with one of his producers.
(50:57):
Now we now know that that rumor is not true,
and Julie has came out to speak out about it.
According to the Cosmo, sounds like Julie and Peter are
just friends. Uh, they are close. She was his day
to day producer, which I can attest. Mine was a
lady named Lindsay. And you do become very close. She
knows everything about your romantic relationships, your personal relationship. She
(51:20):
has met your family and your friends. I get how
you can become close, and so I believe it when
I hear that Julie and Peter are just friends and
their relationship blossom from their time together on the show.
Now are Bachelor expert, huge fan of the show, massive
fan of the podcast Easton is here to tell us
about the headline that says the Bachelor. Kelly Flanagin reveals
(51:44):
what Peter Webber's mom, Barb told her at the finale
Eastern Take it Away. Thanks Ben, it's been it's really
an honor to be on this podcast. Um. So, I
mean we know that that Peter's mom, you know, she
she does not hide her opinions of some of the
girls go and vying for her son's attention. But uh,
we just found out that Kelly uh Flan again revealed
(52:06):
that his mom, Barb is a huge fan. She's a
huge Kelly stand Uh. And uh she said she did
not leave the finale until she met Kelly in person. Uh,
they just had small talk. But but Peter's mom did
tell her, You're beautiful, I love you. I've been your
fans since day one, and they're supposed to go shopping.
I guess. Oh, man, Ethan, does it feel weird that
(52:28):
a mom of Peter or Peter's mom would say that
to an X that Peter obviously has broken up with
and probably trying to move on from. Concerning the circumstances, yes, absolutely,
and especially since we've seen from Peter that he he
values the approval of his mother so much. Uh. And
(52:50):
I just can't imagine what he's thinking. Uh. And you
know what's going through his mind as she makes uh
this public display of her her affection for Kelly. Uh.
But um, but yeah, they're there. She's she's a big
she's a big Kelly fan. Uh. Well, Easton thinks for
that update, we appreciate your insight always. Uh. Now we're
gonna have the headline where our new bacherette who has
(53:13):
paused filming, Claire Crawley, has clapped back. I guess according
to Yahoo Entertainment at her ex Juan Pablo Galvez h
she says this. According to Juan Pablo, he's popped up
on Twitter again for the first time in a while,
and he says, I just saw the guys for Claire
Crawley Batcherette season, and it's going to be interesting seeing
(53:33):
her get hit on by kids in their twenties. I
think this might be the third season. I'm gonna watch
Claire Crawley says back. And yet here you are older
than of them and still can't practice compassion and kindness.
It's actually interesting, uh that Juan Pablo and Claire are
(53:55):
still feuding over social media years later. Also of interesting
that Want Pablo is back in the spotlight. I think
according to most poles, Waden Pablo goes down is the
least liked bachelor of all time. Uh. And we haven't
heard a lot from him recently and uh, now he's back,
uh and not in a good way. But he did
(54:16):
respond to Claire saying, Hey, all I want is for
you to find love. You are taking it the wrong way, Claire.
I think he's saying that because I think the heat
and the pressure on him was pretty intense following his
criticism of Claire's men. Well, to end out this podcast,
we talked about it with Ashley earlier this week, but
(54:37):
Hannah Brown and Tyler Cameron have fueled dating rumors as
there together in Florida as we speak. And also we
just saw that Madison Pruett and Selina Gomez have been
hanging out together doing a little date night. Good for them. Hey,
friends should be friends, uh and uh, and if they
want to hang out, they should be hanging out. Well,
(54:58):
almost famous listeners, it's been a pleasure talking today. It's
been a pleasure talking to Ari and Jason, UH and Easton.
We've had a blast. We will be back together next
week with a few more podcasts. Uh. This week, as
you continue to kind of be hunkered in and hibernating,
know that we are out here virtually trying to put
(55:19):
out some entertainment for you, so that we can continue
to stay communicative with you. We can continue to entertain you,
give you the new news that it comes to Vatro Nation,
and just keep hanging out with you, because honestly, during
these times of isolation, we're gonna miss people in miss connection.
But I also hope during these times of isolation you
spend some time um learning, refocusing, meditating, resting, relaxing, and
(55:46):
and getting ready to uh step back out into this
world and joined together in connection. Hey, we appreciate you,
We love you with that I've been been. I've always
wanted to do this and I have been Eastern. Oh
that makes me happy. We'll talk to you later on.
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