Counting Clayton’s Roses with Nick Viall

For tonight’s premiere of The Bachelor, we have 2 former leads ready to share their expert opinion on Clayton’s journey for love! Nick Viall joins Ben and Ashley to help break down what makes a good “villain” and why we think Clayton isn’t emotionally ready for this experience. 

Plus, Ashley has a theory about Salley and shares her insider info!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
with IR Radio. Hey, guys, welcome to the Almost Famous podcast.
Today obviously big day premiere of the Bachelor, and we
have our good friend Nicholas Vial here to break down
the episode and to update him on his life. Nick. Hello, No,

(00:25):
we're gonna have you update us on your life, which
is like, just been sparkling lately. You are sparkling, you
look sparkling. Why is he sparkling, Ashley when you think
because because Natalie and Jeff you said on Instagram this
week that basically it's been your best year thus far
thanks to Natalie and Jeff. That is your girlfriend of

(00:47):
over a year now. Okay, so Nick was always the
guy who did not understand Jared and my obsession with Loiz.
He didn't understand my sadness when my Lucy passed away,
and now he forget He like he is a whole
different person. You understand She's not a ter. I would agree, then,

(01:13):
have you been that love? No? No, I never had,
but I just agree. I gotta uh interceed here because
Jessica and I you know, I don't know if you
guys saw this on Instagram, but Alice from the Bachelor franchise,
you know, rescued a dog on the side of the
road on her way from Arizona Denver. Brought the dog
to Denver, kind of nursed it back to health, found

(01:34):
out that the dog was pregnant with eight puppies and
just had eight puppies. And so Jessica and I Jessica
is a hundred percent in I'm ninety five, and it's well,
the mom is a Blue healer um. But the dad
isn't known yet and so we don't really know. But
the mom is the sweetest dog. It has a had

(01:57):
an incredible story. It was abused, it's one year old,
has had two broken legs already when at least found it.
And so the dogs just the sweetest and these puppies
are just the cutest. So as a potential because Jessica
does and we'll listen to this as a potential new
dog parent, where are some of the advantages, disadvantages and
advice you have me? Are you asking me? Yeah, I'm

(02:20):
asking you. Well, I I was blessed to be given
a saint that is Jeff. I mean, and I I'm
being serious, Like when I when I got Jeff like I,
you know, I have allergies, so like I'm allergic to dogs.
So I I've I've grown to always like dogs, but
you know, I kept my distance with with most dogs. Um,

(02:45):
and I've always wanted to get a dog, And so
combination of allergies and then like my lifestyle, and by
a lifestyle, I mean like I've been always on the
go and busy, and I just didn't have the time
to uh properly take care of a dog. You know.
It's you never had one growing up. No that's not true.
Oh really, you did have them growing up. We played up.

(03:06):
We actually a handful, but it's a long story, but yes,
we had dogs, um and um. And so when we
got Jeff, I was I was a little nervous about
you know, how he would be or or or my love,
you know, like my attachment to them. And not only
did I grow immediately and attached, but he's been a
goddamn delight, Like I mean as far as like having

(03:28):
a puppy, I mean, he's like just objectively not talking
about like my love for him. Like other than the
occasional a couple of accidents early on, he doesn't drool,
he doesn't bite, things. He doesn't ruin things like other
than Natalie's underwear, like he's obsessed with like he will
eat that if she leaves it lying around, but that's

(03:51):
that's on her, like don't leave it on the floor,
you know. So like, um, he's really been such a
a one her full full. I mean, like we create
trained Jeff right away. He now like sleeps with us
every night. But like the first month, like we quate trained,
we great to train them and so um we heard
that was helpful and we did that. It was pretty

(04:13):
easy to do it right away. And other than that,
I don't have a lot of like helpful information because
I think I was just blessed with a really great
dog who was just well behaved and nice, and he
likes to cuddle and he gets a little barkie with
like you know, um nature, like he seems to bark
at nature. Um, but he's a puppy. So like all

(04:33):
things being equal, it's been really easy. So I hope
and wish uh my experience with Jeff on anyone who
gets a new dog. So I hope that for you, Ben,
But I think I just got really lucky. Yeah, yeah,
it's it's it's definitely risk. But we we went after
the runt of the litter um because we thought the

(04:57):
runt wouldn't be you know, we didn't want like this
alpha dog dog that would bark and you know, be
crazy as the runs the letter too. Really okay, and
I think I like that personality. We're excited, Jessica now flashed. Uh. Well,
we we met this little puppy a week ago. Every
night before she goes to bed, she goes, I miss him,
and I'm like, gosh, dang it, this is happening. This

(05:19):
is definitely happening. So um well, Nick, transition a little bit.
Natalie is Austin in your life. She's been. She is
a delight as well. I've been able to meet her
and we really enjoy her. Ashley was the first to
tell me about her, and she was just telling tell
me how great she was. How has that changed your life?
I'm less smoody. That's good all he self admits it.

(05:41):
That's amazing. Like seriously, Nick is always in a good mood. Now, well,
I wouldn't say always, but wow, often I think me
having now in my life there you realize that I
was probably slightly crabvier um uh with her than I
and I am without, you know, because it's it's a challenge,

(06:02):
you know. Obviously the file follows are in life are
asking nick or question dick? I I I often strongly
advocate for uh not being afraid of being single or
embracing it, etcetera, etcetera. But you know, I was, I
was single for a long time, and I think that's
fine for people. I think, but I think over for

(06:24):
a while. You know, you can you you can get
a little uh crappy, thank you? Um? Okay, So can
you describe why she balances you perfectly? Like why you
guys are perfect compliments? Because I do believe you are.
I don't think there's anything that's sing it's perfect Okay, fine,

(06:46):
not perfect? Bad word choice? Um, why you compliment each other?
I mean a lot of her strengths are some of
my weaknesses, and vice versa. She's a very present person.
She's a generally very happy person. I'm neither pleasant or
generally happy. Um. Oh that's great. Um, And so she

(07:11):
really helps uh that with me? I mean you'd have
to ask her what I help her with. But um,
as corny as it sounds, I think we we spend
a lot of time together. I mean, you know, our
relationship we met each other before the pandemic, but our
relationship really started in the pandemic, so um, you know

(07:32):
part of you know, part of the pandemic. You know,
you're kind of stuck with each other. We don't get
into each other's nerves. But I think we also are
okay with Yeah, there's a yeah, okay with like having
our own time and free time. But I think, uh,
I think you know, there's high level stuff, right, there's
like the important things, and there's like there's the nice

(07:54):
to haves, but like also we have a lot of
the nice to have. And what I mean by that
is like, as you know, Ashley, I'm a creature of habit,
especially when it comes to like food, Like I like
my rotation and Nally and I have very similar palettes,
and like neither of us are like, oh I gotta
like eat this because you like this, or vice versa,

(08:16):
and so we we that's a very nice to have,
you know what I'm saying. Like there's some things that
she loves that I don't like, and vice versa. But
like that's like condiments we don't like. We're not always
on the same page condiments wise, but that's fine. But
the like the and so like that's just a nice
nice to have. You know, we like the same TV shows.

(08:37):
Uh and and for the most part, like we like
the same TV shows. There's a lot of stuff we
you know, and again you don't need that, but it's
a nice it's nice to have and we uh so yeah,
it's just it's just it's fun and enjoyable to be around.
And uh yeah, and she's just she's lives a light

(08:58):
and she you me my toes the year ago, remember
being incredibly impressed. I think it started about a year ago.
But you do on Sundays um for a long time now,
uh questions with Nick and you get on Instagram and
you answer. I mean, it's impressive how many questions you
get weekly? And and I think we I first started

(09:22):
like picking up on this before I knew you were
dating Natalie. Where did all the wisdom? Um? Because it
is I mean, and you don't have to admit it,
but there's a lot of wisdom behind your answers, and
there's a lot of experience behind your answers. So two
questions there, where did that come from? And then how
easy was it for you when you met Natalie to
transfer some of that wisdom inter relationship. Uh where did

(09:44):
it come from? I mean it came from having friends
like Ashley. Uh you know, um, the the asking the
questions part and then you giving the answers answering the questions.
I'm an introspective person. I've always like, I've always had
at mindset and I think, you know, a combination of
my own trials and tribulations in my own personal life

(10:06):
and then my my need to learn about my own
choices to do things differently. And then, um, I've always
enjoyed being the friend. You know what I've learned about myself?
What do we want to go down a rabbit hole?
Are we? Yes? I love rabbit hole all the time?
You have, um, you know, as a podcast host, you know,

(10:30):
you're always trying to understand the relationship you have with
your audience, right, and who am I to my audience?
You know? And and in that kind of self reflection,
I was just like, you know, I'm I'm I'm the
brother or the friend that you I'm the friend that
you need sometimes but not always the friend that you want.

(10:53):
And then it made me think about like my life
and it was like this kind of it was this
kind of self awareness of acceptance that like the truth
of it, I didn't like love, but then I learned
to appreciate it. And what I mean by that is
I've never been a best man ever. I've never been
anyone's best man. I've however, I've stood up and I

(11:14):
don't know how many weddings, UM I've have. My my
friendships are truly important to me. I have a lot
of strong my friendships have always been important to me. UM,
and I have a lot of close friends. I've I've
you know, I've been the elector at weddings, have been
the usher at weddings, and even people I like became
friends with liked after they had gotten engaged with. But

(11:36):
I've never been someone's best Matt. And that that, I
think that used to always bother me, that I was
never like the guy, you know, I was never the
ride or die. And then I thought to myself, like, well,
I wonder why that is. And I feel like the
best man is your guy, your friend or whatever that

(11:56):
you're just like no matter what you want to you
or whatever stupid decision you have in mind, they're like, yeah,
I'm sinking down. I'm let's do it, you know. And
I'm kind of a Debbie Donner that way, And I'm
always like, do you do you really want to? Like
I'm you know, I'm the friend you have around that's
kind of like as a buzz kill once in a
while when I'm just like offering that level of objectivity

(12:20):
that eventually you appreciate, but in the moment, you might
just want me to shut the hell up, you know.
And and I thought about this a while, and I
realized that's just kind of who I've always been. And
I've learned accuracy of this is just incredible. Keep going.
I've learned to accept that. I mean, sometimes I wish

(12:42):
I could be a best man, and uh, but I'm
good enough to like I stand I've I stood up
in a lot of weddings because it's like, you know, definitely,
I definitely appreciate next friendship because like he's really been
there for me and boy really helped out. But boy,
I sure didn't want to hear what he had to
say in that moment. And and that's why that's why
Tony is my best man, because this this guy, you know,

(13:03):
it makes me feel really good about myself in the moment.
But so yeah, that's this. This it's just who I am,
I guess and uh for better or worse, uh and
sometimes for both. But yeah, it's been a lot of fun.
I mean, the questions like on Sundays has really been
kind of the launching pad for everything I'm doing right now.
It's why I sort of the Vital Files sameless plug. I.

(13:25):
I have the questions with nickbook coming out I think
in October. That is basically it's loosely based off of
a question questions. It's I think it's the first bachelination
book that has nothing to do with bachelination. Um, but
hopefully people will enjoy that. And it's again a lot

(13:46):
of uh based off of into very long winded answer
to your question, Ben, what do I do to apply
to my that those stuff to my current relationship? Well,
I try to be very careful not to try did
too too too much. And what I mean by that
a lot of what I talked about on my show
Our questions of Nick or or or the book is

(14:07):
it's a lot of things I try to incorporate to
got me to Natalie in the relationship, and it's a
lot of being honest with yourself about your own choices.
You know, the book is really just about how to
get out of your own way and how to control
your ego and how to um be accountable for your

(14:27):
choices and put yourself in the best possible situation because
like dating is hard, and relationships are hard, and and
disappointment is inevitable when it comes to love and dating.
And we we can't control all the other people we
meet and all the other people we date. That's hard enough.
And and and if we can just try to to
improve our own choices and how we handle disappointment, we

(14:50):
can put ourselves in best possible situations to be you
already and available and and healthy emotionally when the right
person comes along. UM. So a lot of that is
about like getting to that point so that when you
meet someone like a Natalie, you don't you don't ruin it,

(15:11):
you don't uh, it doesn't pass you by. Um because
in my relationship, I try to be very careful about um,
you know, like I have a partnership with Natalie, so
she she doesn't need me for you know, like talking
about the how to use a relationship type of thing
and so uh in a relationship. Um. I try to

(15:35):
be mindful about like things I say uh to my audience,
and then I'll ask myself in the moment, is this
advice I would give someone you know? In terms of
how I'm responding. But it's easier to respond when you're
not emotionally involved with someone you know, um than when
you are. So yeah, I tried. I try not to

(15:58):
bring too much of work, so to speak, into my relationship.
I certainly try to be self aware and obviously and
and empathetic and and treat it more like a partnership
rather than the friend who's giving advice. I don't want
to be that to Natalie, and I do want to
be the best man you know, nick Um, you sit
on Instagram something about this being like the biggest year

(16:21):
to come for you too. Are you thinking about engagement?
I know that I'm just trying to get the likes,
you know what I'm saying. I know, but I know.
But also I think you take being with her for
a long time very seriously. Uh. I, Like I said,
I I will just I certainly have big plans with

(16:43):
Natalie this year, so I'm trying not to get too
ahead of myself. But if if if the rest myself
is uh, I can confidantly say that if I'm as
I sit here now, if if I end up spending
the rest of my life and aale and have a
family with her, I would consider myself to be the
luckiest guy in the world. That's great, so sweet. Okay,

(17:07):
Well we want to dive into some bachelor related questions.
We're gonna do so right after this pick. All right, Nick,
I do have a question for you before we kick
off the bachelor talk. You. Uh, you have been a bachelor,

(17:28):
so this is a little bit relevant. Uh, this has
been a big year for you too, because you've gotten
some some some tattoos and I recently got a tattoo myself.
I got my wedding ring tattooed on my finger. It's
a big deal. Oh yeah, it's a big deal. It's
for you. That's a that's permanent. It's permanent, buddy. I'm

(17:49):
in it. I'm in it, and I'm enjoying it. But
it's only been six weeks, but I'm really loving marriage.
It's really great for me. Yeah, well, fantastic, man, it
it has it has changed our lives right three rest
you know yea, yeah, very yet ease, very relaxed. I'm
just chilling there like like more unwounded. Yeah, it's weird.

(18:12):
It's weirder that happens, right ash Um. Yeah, but you
did get some tattoos. Uh. They look great, but they came.
You know, I think your first one was probably this year, right,
And and you've continued Have you always wanted tattoos? What
was the final decision? Walk us through this process, because
because you know, I've been I've been curious, uh something

(18:34):
I've always thought about doing. Um, but they are permanent.
And so before this year, every time I kind of
thought about a tottoo, I just you know, I'm a
I'm all, I'm an all in kind of guy, and
so I don't like half asking things, and so you know,
for me, I just didn't want to get like a tattoo.

(18:55):
And so I have a lot of a large family,
and so I had this plan for a handful of
years now of I wanted to get to get tattoo
that represented every member in my family and then other
parts of my life. And so every tattoo I have
tells a story about an individual in my life. Uh,

(19:18):
and I have I don't don't I think I have
like twenties some Now, do you have a favorite, Like,
do you have one that like you look at and
you're just really really appreciative of all of them. I mean, well,
I mean this is what our video is it? No,
we don't have video, Okay, so I mean that one

(19:39):
on the one side, this is the lake house, which
is a sad story because oh no, I didn't get
an update on that. I didn't get it, asshole. And
my long story short, my grandfather built a lake house.
They're no, well, right, my grandfather built a lake house.

(20:00):
The six days they sold it when my grandfather died
when I was ten, like thirty one years ago, it
was like my nirvana. I dreamt about this. I have
recurring dreams about it. I have a tattoo of of
that house because it's the place where if I think
of heaven, that's what I think of. Um. And they
had to sell it because, you know, when my grandfather died.
It's up north in central Wisconsin. And I found out,

(20:20):
you know, probably in the first it's probably the first
year of my life that would even be in a
position to afford like a second home or a lake house.
And and um, I found out a day after, there
was an accepted offer that I was up for sale,
and I wanted to buy it back and give it
to my mom. Uh, and I tried to Uh. I
offered the buyer the purchase price to walk away, and

(20:42):
he he did not take it. So my hope is
that he will still eventually come around. But it was
I was really hoping to give out of a house
for Christmas. Yeah, it anyway, So then I have the
house and then you know this, this line is my dad.
It's a it's a line for my dad. F I'm
a crest, and this is a humming burn, which is
my mom, and the lines looking up to my mom
and the hummingbirds. Whereas with my mom because on the

(21:04):
sligh houses where I first saw humming burn, and then
these eleven stars with their kids, and then on everything
down here all the children, and then you know, actually,
and then I really like my tattoo of Jeff. Yeah
you got a tattoo Jeff. I love that well, and Jeff,
Jeff taught me the value of being unconditionally liked. And
for anyone of all the people go out there and

(21:26):
they will talk about being unconditionally loved, unconditionally love, I
think is not as good as being unconditionally liked. That's
very interesting. I think I know where you're going with it.
Go for it. Well, your mom unconditionally loves you, but
your mom still thinks you're an asshole sometimes, you know.
I I'm sure I could sit down your mom and

(21:46):
I bet I could get her to complain about you
for an hour. Actually. But Jeff, he loves everything I do.
He likes everything I do. Everything I do is awesome.
And it's the first thing I've letters living thing because
people love me, but people all afully have to tolerate me.
And Jeff, Jeff likes everything I do, and that's an

(22:09):
amazing feeling. There there is one thing that you cannot
die deny about Nick, and that is that he's very
self aware and it's amazing and I love this and
I could, really, we could really talk to you for
the whole hour, U. But let's get into some Bachelor things.
You and I both texted back and forth a little
bit about the oddness that was the Clayton as being

(22:34):
the Bachelor, you know, the choice, the choice to have
Clayton be the Bachelor. After watching episode one, how are
are you feeling I feel good and all you really needed.
There was a specific scene in this episode that told
you everything you need to know about Clayton and this season.
And I just want to point out at that point

(22:56):
out of my my podcast, whatever you think about what
makes it it are bad bachelor bout shrette has nothing
to do with people as human beings. Clayton and the
person I've never met. I've heard none of good things
about him. I've I've had I've had the edit tell
us that this bachelor bach shrette is a good person,

(23:16):
only to have producers be like they can suck you know,
but it sounds like everything I heard about Clayton. He's
a genuinely nice guy. Alright. I want to make that clear.
I haven't met him, but the scene where Sally previously
engaged Sally walks up, that scene is all you need

(23:37):
to know about this season. The good news is is
that I think this season is gonna be awesome. It's
gonna be what it's gonna be, a hot, stinky mess
of drama. And Clayton is in no way emotionally ready
to get engaged or married anytime soon. He is emotionally
probably immature, and they of a bachelor who's emotionally immature.

(24:02):
And what I mean by that is like Sally comes in,
she knocks on his door. She's like, Clayton, is nice
to meet you. Can I tell you a story? By
the way, I was supposed to get married yesterday. Yesterday
was my wedding day, and I've been having these feelings
about like, you know, oh, shoot, you know what you know.
What Clayton says to her, he's just like, well, I

(24:25):
know you're an amazing person, and he begs her to
say that is an insane response to someone who just
sat you down and said, hey, listen, I'm a little
broken inside, you know, and I don't know if I
can be ready in eight weeks to get engaged to you.
But apparently Clayton knows that she's a great person, and well,

(24:48):
that's a nice thing to say to someone, and it
sounds good. It's an insane response to someone who's clear
like the only correct response to be like, hey, listen,
thank you for being so vulnerable. I can only imagine
what that's like. But it sounds like, you know, you're
you're you're still healing and I really want to find love.
And this is such an insane response, sane world. And

(25:11):
the only thing I know so far, having even not
started this, I'm only I'm five hours away from sorry,
this is that I think everyone needs to kind of
be emotionally healed so that, you know, we can put
our best foot forwards to fall in love and like
eight or weeks or whatever it is. But Caitlin Clayton,
excuse me, begs for begs for to stay. It's a

(25:31):
nuts response. So that absolutely, that absolutely tells me that
this will be an awesome season. And and and I
feel bad for Clayton because they're gonna walk circles, run
circles around Clayton. He is going to make choices based
off of wanting to say and do the right thing
and wanting to be the nice guy. And he will

(25:54):
focus on short term niceness and gratification at the detriment
to his like long term happiness, because that is not
a response you say to someone if your primary focus
is to find healthy and happy love that possibly could
last you the rest of your life. It's gonna be

(26:14):
like Peter Webber's season, you know, a train wreck for him,
very entertaining for us, it's gonna be so good. And
and I feel bad because like obviously like and again
I I I hope I get a chance to interview
Clayton despite me it seeming like I've been hard on him,
and that I've been hard on the choice of Clayton.
That Clayton the person, and I think he's gonna deserve

(26:37):
a lot of hugs after this and he's probably a
good guy and it's probably why. And I think the
way the producers are going to get us to care
about Clayton's love story is to get a bunch of
women to break up with him. He's he's over, he
was over two before he got to his first row ceremony.
I got dumped twice. Yeah, that hurts. That wasn't that

(27:02):
wasn't an accident like that you do that so you
care because before we didn't care, like why should we
care about you? And now we're starting to care because
everyone deserves love and you're like, this guy got dumped
twice before his first row ceremony. I suspect we're going
to see a handful of more of of of of
of Clayton being broken up with, so that by the
end of the season we're like, can this guy just

(27:23):
fall in somebody that that's my that's my guess. I
you know what I don't want though, I get frustrated
because we went into this for a while with The Bachelor,
especially was the leads had a really hard time asking
questions and following up and digging in a little bit
and sitting in like the messiness of it all, and

(27:46):
as a result, it is entertaining, but we end up
not getting to know the cast at all, Like we
end up at the end of the season being like,
I have no connection with any of them because there's
never been a single question asked past hey you're really
great like or in and a lot of kisses. And
that's what I don't want to go back to because
we we've had it with a couple of Bachelor as
seasons where good questions been asked, We've got to know

(28:08):
the cast, we've enjoyed the cast, and they go on
Paradise and we root form there or whatever. I don't
want us just to fall in this. Hey I was
supposed to get married today. Oh, but you're a great person.
Let's kiss that. I don't like that in this show.
I get really tired of it. Yeah, I mean I
get what you're saying, Ben, and I agree with your premise,
but overall, I don't know. I don't think you're thinking

(28:29):
big picture. I loved Michelle. I loved Michelle. That's a
bad shrap. Yeah, I love especially like like Katie's season
was toxic. That's the only way to describe Katie's season.
Everything about it was toxic. It was also good TV.
But like by the time Katie's season was over, like
I was exhausted recapping it was just like land Mine

(28:52):
after Landmine, triggering episode after triggering episode, and having Michelle
be the bat shortt was a breath of fresh air.
I mean, having a lead that we often aren't privileged
to have someone like Michelle who emotionally very immature, thoughtful,
clearly had lived some life and experience some ups and downs.

(29:13):
So that every conversation Michelle had with her men like
we could learn something from Michelle. You know, she would
say things and be like, that's such an interesting way
to look at it, and that was really nice to have.
But the criticism of Michelle's season was and while I
enjoyed it, a lot of people found it to be
a little boring by the end, and you know, not
like a little nuts, So listen. I'm just it's good

(29:36):
to mix it up, right, I think you know, we
had a toxic season with Katie. We had a very
mature but like potentially slightly like too normal, too boring.
So if we get just hot, sninky mess with Clayton,
it's fine. This is a TV show, you know we're
watching after all. If you want like good relationship advice,
listen to the Vile Files. If you want like if

(29:58):
you want toxic. If you want to toxic, you know
what not to do with love and dating, watch The
Bachelor sometimes, nick Um. The ratings are obviously have been
steadily going down with each season. It hasn't been since
mine and ben seasons was pretty high, right, Hannah's was

(30:20):
really high relatively speaking, but they haven't gone up since.
Been into myself. Lets you guys, I got the medal
behind me representing that golden era. Um do you? And
I say this because like, Jared and I are having
a watch party down at Audrey's today. By the way,

(30:40):
I can't wait to check it up. Well, we can't
wait for you to come. You know, I've got to
deliver the baby and then we can have all our
friends come. Um. So I'm getting a lot of responses
based on like us having a watch party that people
are like, oh, I don't watch anymore because Chris Harrison
is not the host. How much do you think that
that is affecting the ratings? None at all, but great?

(31:00):
I mean, can I want to ask you a question
and then I want to ask you guys about Jesse Palmer,
Um the ratings for I think it's accommodation of things.
The ratings. I think it's disingenuous to compare like the
ratings from mine and Ben season to the ratings of today.
Like people are digesting media differently, they're watching stuff on
their phone, they're streaming it differently. So when you compare

(31:22):
like the Nielsen ratings from like six years ago two now,
it's like it's apples and oranges. So as much as
like Ben and I might like jokingly brag about it,
it's completely disingenuous. Um, it's still winning Monday Night, still
very popular. Uh, audiences have always come and go, you know,
your legacy fans like that have been with us every

(31:45):
season and by awesome invat nation like those are always
been few and far between. So you might be asking
people that you're used to asking who might not still
watch it, But there's plenty of new fans, you know
what I'm saying, So I think it's all relative, Like
you know, that being said, I think there's probably like
you know, there's gonna always be a little bit of
like fatigue certainly with like you know, I need to

(32:06):
take a season off because like I don't know, maybe
so that maybe they took Michelle's season off because like
I wasn't used to watching The Bachelor or Bach Sharrette
in the fall because I watched you know whatever, and
so they didn't watch it. I honestly think the franchise
is doing just fine. I think it's it's you just
have to figure out how you're comparing it. Um, of

(32:26):
course you're gonna always gonna have the I'm not watching
because of Chris Harrison. Yeah, I'm sure there a people
like that. More more people will say that and still
watch it. I think if you're that big of a
fan of The Bachelor franchise, that you were triggered. And
I love, you know, as a person, Chris, I love him,
you know, good guy. You know he made a mistake,
But like, who is like from the Chris I know,

(32:48):
I think he's a good guy, right and so um,
but to but to be that offended that he like
is not what the show? That you can't watch it?
I think you're such a fan that would say that
rather than not watch it. You know what I'm saying,
Like it's something to say, but I don't think you
actually followed through. Um, what do you guys think of
Jesse Palmer? Because I think when you watch it and

(33:12):
for me, I I want to know it because like
I watched it, it's hard for me not to be biased, right,
I think for people like me, you, Ben Wells, Caitlin, Tasha,
you know who I have hosted it and then you
think of the Bachelor, like we look at them, think
you wonder if could I do that? Right? Could we
do that? You know? Uh? You know and when they
were like when they were looking for a new host,

(33:32):
you know, you throw your hat in the ring, so
to speak, they hired Jesse Palmer. Okay, he's the former
Bachelor and then he comes out and it was just like,
I'm like, I'm biased, So I have an opinion, but
I don't know if it's fair because you know, I'm
sure Ben, you watched it the same way as me,

(33:52):
of like how would I what else could I have done?
Could I have done that? You know, sometimes you see
someone doing something you go that was really good, you know,
like when Caitlin hosted a far she did like the moment,
I don't know because it's live, right, like hosting a
tell all whatever, like you can screw up thirty times.
I like to believe I could do what Caitlin did

(34:14):
an a far do. I believe I can do it, sure,
but I don't know. I haven't done it yet, and
you know, like and she crushed it, right, so I
could watch that objectively go damn, Like Caitlin, she did
a great job. It was live, there's no there's no
margin for error, and she crushed it. Um, I didn't
watch you know, So what do you think then, unless

(34:36):
what do you think I want? You're honest opinion? Well,
I think you make I mean great points, and I
do want to reiterate like Caitlin crushed it and and
I I am the same as you where I watch
it and I go, could I have done this? Can
I do this? And I honestly sat and watched Caitlin
and I said, I I don't know, like I, I
she did great, and that might be where I would
have fallen short. But maybe I wouldn't have I maybe

(34:57):
could have done it well. I thought a few things
sood out to me. One Jesse was barely shown. I know,
he makes his big announcement. I know, he comes out
and says, Hi, I'm your new host, and i was
a bachelor long ago and I've never been to this
mansion and all that stuff the way I'm married now, Yeah,
I'm married, so just to be clear, like this is not,
you know, my dating contest. And then we didn't really

(35:18):
see him. And in past seasons, like Chris, especially during
the first episode, he would disappear kind of as a
season went on, he would really dig in to the
conversations with the bachelor, he would really set up the
season for us. And I felt like, you know, this
was I don't even know if we need a host
during this episode. I don't know if any point a

(35:39):
host was necessary. Uh. You know, Jesse is talented, he's
a professional, and I think they I mean I would
have to think at this point they chose him, if
this is the role he's gonna play with the limit
amount of airtime, he has because they think he's a
good face of the franchise. But that's it. But but
it's not. But it's not that. I mean you and

(36:02):
I don't if you're only going to be shown for
a few minutes and you're gonna read off a teleprompter
and you're gonna talk to Clayton and say, hey, are
you excited? Are you ready? Can we do this? Here's
the girls? A lot of people can do that job.
And so I don't even know if I could fairly
judge him as a host because it's just like a
lot of people can do that what he did last night. No,
I I completely agree. It's to me, it's just like

(36:25):
what they aired is. I mean, I I guessed as
much when I was like, what what role is Jesse
Palmer going to play? And I kind of jokingly said,
he's going to be there to remind he's gonna he's
Jesse Palmer is gonna like for the people who can't count,
remind him how many roses are left? Like that's gonna
be his job. And that seems like you're right, I
think like that's and maybe he will grow into it.

(36:47):
It's disingenuous. So he's like you're not alone. I'll be
there for you. And I hope I'm wrong, but I
don't think there's gonna be a moment where like Jesse
Palmer is really like sitting down with him and offering
like some insight and and like how to like process
these emotions. I think they actively got away from the
mental role that was Caitlyn and Tasha. Like again, I

(37:10):
thought Tasha and Clayton both did a great job. I
thought it was clunky to have to you know, we
didn't get to see Tasha a f R. But I
think part of the reason why Caitlyn shine too because
it was just her, you know. There definitely was like
this like let's make sure everyone has a word that
was that was clunky. So but it would have been

(37:33):
nice to see like Caitlyn put her own spin on it,
or Wells put his own spin, or myself or you Ben.
And it seemed like to me, just like you said,
it was just like just go to your best version
of Chris Harrison and go sit down. It was like
I was like, all right, I mean all that being said,
I don't think you know, Caitlin Tasha, I don't think

(37:53):
it like do you know it's not why we watched.
It's not you know, if they if they casted any
of us to host The Bachelor, it's not why they're watching.
You know what I'm saying. They're watching for Clayton and
the love story. So let's remember that, Like, it's not
about the host. Um. But I think you know, of
course we're going to critique it when you have Chris
Harrison be the host for so long and then your

(38:18):
choice to replace him is as someone who was the Bachelor,
but someone who really hasn't been a recent bachelor, and
it looked like they hire a football commentator to host
The Bachelor. They looked so similar next to each other too. Um,
I think he just went like he did fine. I
was like, it just seemed like, yeah, well, I mean

(38:38):
you just made I think the one comment that I
was interested in watching for as somebody that you know,
obviously I would have loved too. I actually wanted the
Senior Citizen Show. I thought, I I just think that
would be the most fun job ever. But oh my god,
that too. I think it's unclear. I mean, they've been,
they've been what seems to be from me, it seems

(39:02):
clear that they are not not committal, But I think
they have every intention of just making Jesse the permanent
host for all things Bachelor, like I think, but I
I think they are waiting because they don't need to like,
they don't need to commit to that now. So let's
just have them host Clayton. See like, what's up hid
them do the Barren minimum and you know, go from

(39:24):
there but my and and back to my point and
we can close this thought here is you said it.
Jesse Palmer did his best Chris Harrison impression, and that's
not like, that's fine. It works if if we believe
the only way to host this show is how Chris
Harrison hosted it, how he evolved as a host, how
the show evolved around him, if the things he said

(39:45):
were just spot on, perfect and iconic and everlasting, and
if he should stand out on the wet pavement and
welcome the Bachelor in and then say here's your ladies
and show up again with the last and final rows.
If that is the best way to do this, then
Jesse did a great job. But I thought, hey, you
you're changing up the show a bit. You have a

(40:06):
new no matter if you like it or not, you
have a new opportunity to change up how this show functions.
And I really thought I was watching Chris Harrison last night,
or like some guy trying to play him, And that's
just weird to me. Yeah, that's why it was weird
because that's exactly what it looked like. It looked awkward
because it wasn't like, hey, this is a new person

(40:27):
within slightly new vibe. They're not the focal point of
the show. They're not the main character. They are the host,
let's remember that. But it was like Chris Harrison got
kidnapped and they're like they found like this most suitable
replacement and threw him in there. So I don't know, Listen,
it's not gonna affect the show whatsoever. Um, it is
what it is. We're just a bunch of people they

(40:49):
didn't pick who are probably assaulted and talking. Um. But
I know, But but I don't even like, I want
to be clear, I like Jesse. He's a professional host,
like he's of course, there's no like awkward watching him
at all. It's an absolute he's an absolute pro. You know,
he's he's a very polished, seasoned host. And I think,

(41:11):
to your point, Ben, this is a show about relationships
and we're two now relationships are coming more involved, and
we're having conversations about like what gas letting is and
love bombing, etcetera, etcetera, and accountability and emotional intelligence. And
it would be nice to have a host at either
mentors or helps facilitate or drive those conversations. And it

(41:33):
doesn't seem like they have any intention of having their hosts.
I'll let Jesse Palmer do that. Well said, Hey, can
we pause here for one second, take a break, and
we'll come back with the batchel Rika. Alright, So let's

(41:55):
just start with the women, because you know, we see
the standard blah blah blah. I'm going home. I'm gonna
show my mom that I'm the bachelor, and then I'm
gonna like talk about how I all I want in
life is to get married and have kids and all that,
and then we we we get it to the girls.
Who stands out to you amongst the girls? For me,

(42:15):
even before Teddy got the first impression Rose, she was
one that caught my eye. So was the girl from
like that was the former Miss Virginia USA? Who else?
I mean Teddy? I know you mentioned Teddy and I
know you said who else, But like, if the producers
are doing their job, and we know they're good at

(42:36):
doing their job, is there anyway she doesn't go to
the fantasy suite. Oh no, she's absolutely doing the fantasy suite.
This is what I have a theory on. I'm actually
very very interested in what you guys think. So once
she talks about her virginity and the fact that she's like,
you know, this is a decision that I made, but
I'm not like super stuck to it. I won like

(43:00):
totally related and I and then she said something about
going into the fantasy and being totally cool with going
into it. Um my thought, now, is that that teaser
that we see about him having to reveal that he's
intimate with like all the women that he goes into
the fantasy with. It's just now it all makes sense

(43:20):
as to why he would have to for some reason
announce this. I mean, I mean, uh, Teddy has got
to be the winner or the next pascherette. I don't
see any other scenario. They're all both good, amazing stories,
like very like the virgin goes in a version who's

(43:41):
willing to have sex? Oh my god, what a dread
you had? The chance, but whatever, you and kristin vibe
and let me ask you this, actually someone who like
was was a virgin because not because of religion, but
because you wanted to have a special moment if you
and Chris Soul's vibe. And I know that's kind of
a weird question because you're pregnant with Jared's kid at etcetera.
But like, mentally, were you prepared to lose your virginity

(44:03):
in the fantasy suite if you were falling in love,
I would have done stuff. I don't think I would
have gone all the way when I knew that there
were two other women involved, All right, fair enough. Yeah, Well,
the fact that Teddy seems to be uh and you know,
we don't know that for sure, but seems to be

(44:25):
oh my god, like like Teddy, she's cool though she's
like waste so longer than I was. Yeah, she's she
seems very self confident, which is great and easy to
talk to. Awesome. But yes, having a a self proclaimed
for virgin lose the virginity on the Bachelor and having

(44:48):
the Bachelor and be like, yeah, yesterday, I also had
sex with Janice or whatever. Um, Like, oh my god,
that's amazing and if he doesn't pick her, uh, what
an amazing story if your next batch shorette, Like I
lost my virginity on this show only to have my
heart broken, It's awesome. It's like you that is such

(45:12):
I mean, like you don't even need a good bachelor
with a storyline like that. And I don't know if
Clayton is gonna be a good bachelor. I mean it
depends on. Like I think Peter Webber was a good
bachelor for the reasons we just talked about. Because Peter
gave us great TV. You know, he got he got it,
he got this, destroyed that. Poor dude was just not
ready for the Clayton looks like he might get the

(45:33):
story too down there. Yeah, but you know what good
you know what's good for Peter, and I hope the
same for Clayton is Peter doesn't give a you know,
like he is and I give that like Peter's like,
I'm good looking enough, I'm six to I fly planes,
I'm good man like I I've like Peter knows how
to appreciate the small things and he doesn't sweat other

(45:56):
small things, or maybe he he appreciates the big things
in life. And I don't. But Peter is just fine.
Uh And I hope to same for Clayton, because you're right,
he he is going to be He's gonna be put
through it many well. I mean, the one thing they
have in common is they both love their moms. So
we'll see how much of a storyline it becomes of
Clayton's mom. I you know, I'm I'm with you both.

(46:20):
Where Teddy really stood out to me. I hope that
Teddy walks out of this and the story isn't of
her getting really hurt by Clayton. I hope she's the
next bachelorette and the story is twisted and turned a
little bit um because it's just actually, you could answer
this to me. It just seems like it would be

(46:41):
so emotionally difficult for a virgin to also have that
be the topic of conversation amongst everybody for months that
you're maybe the bachelorette, for months after the show, for
months during the show. I don't know how a huming
who's not you to this world can walk out of

(47:01):
that unscathed emotionally. I mean, I don't know. I'll say
I'll be super honest here. I think if it's not
for religious reasons, and she really did have feelings going
into it. Given the bachelor ate role is pretty good
compensation fair enough, that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, listen,
we're all a little screwed up after going on this

(47:22):
shop like it is what it is. And also Teddy
in her intro package was like, hey, producers, by the way,
I'm about to give you a gift. I'm ready to
have some sex, you know, Like she was offering this
up like I don't. Teddy knows why she's there. She
seems like an intelligent woman. Um, there's a lot of

(47:43):
people out there that save it for a long time,
then they end up regretting it and ta get over it.
And I think that she's gonna be fine. I think
Teddy's well aware of the opportunity in front of her
and she if listen, she's a genius. Most of us
lose our virginity on some I'm like, you know, we're
backseat of a car. Or for me, it was like
out in the woods on a hill, falling the skido.

(48:05):
But it's it's awkward, it's weird, and Tenny's about to
leverage the first time she's had sex on National television
and and most likely leverage into like some sort of career.
I mean, she clearly knows what she's doing, you know
what I'm saying. Like it was such a like very
staged thing on her intro package. She's no dummy. I
bet she watches this show and I have no problem

(48:26):
with whatsoever we're about. So like, watch what I'm assuming.
It's very entertaining, and yeah, they're gonna use it against
her for sure on some level, but they will award
her in spades going forward. So like she's gonna be
just fine. She'll be a name. Remember I want I
want to bring up a name here because we saw
a little bit of her. I think she's gonna become

(48:48):
the villain of the season. That's my guest right now.
Her name is Nay. I think was was her name?
Uh Nay. Even in her intro package, had was hinting
at the fact that, you know, we seed every sea
and nobody's gonna stop me. I'm gonna go after this thing.
I'm gonna compete, I'm gonna win. And we we see
even a little since when she walks into the House
of the Girls, already a little upset with her because

(49:10):
of her entrance. What was her entrance? She drove over
somebody's Yeah, they were being that was so silly for
them to be, like, a how offensive that she rolled
over the toy. Yeah, so this brings me my question.
You know, we see the drama already starting to get
hinted at. It's great. We know this season is gonna
be full of drama because this episode ends with one

(49:32):
of the girls going, this is the most beautiful supportive
group I've ever been around. And you're like, just wait,
like this is gonna twist and turn fast. Who do
you believe is going to kind of come up from
the ashes and really cause the drama this season? Do
you get a hint? Uh? It's hard to say. I
mean yeah, I mean based off the super cheese and

(49:52):
the little entrances, but I always kind of reserved a
right to, you know, let things play out. They usually
tend to surprise us, you know, they don't want to
of everything away episode one. I think it's easier to
figure out who your final four is in the first
two episode than is the villain. Um. My guess is, like, listen,
if it's an entertaining season, they'll have multiple villains, you know,

(50:13):
I think they're kind of past the day where they
have this like you know, the Olivia from your season
and again not not a reason a villain life where
they like they really beat up on one person and
call them your call them their villain. Um, I think
you're gonna have. I think it's just gonna be a
bunch of women being caddie and fighting, and you'll have

(50:33):
a handful of villains. Um. You know. Like remember like
on Peters season is a perfect example, like we all
thought Hannah Ann was going to be the villain silly,
you know, and and for like three episodes and then
like in life, she's the sweetest and she was the
last thing from a villain. She ended up winning, you know.
Um you know Chelsea, you know again like not a villain,

(50:56):
but just dramatic, you know. So what I think it's
gonna be more out just dramatic moments and women fighting
more than like you know, like Olivia from your season
villain type of thing. Yeah, that seems to be the
pattern over the past couple of seasons that it's kind
of like a weekly villain versus yea, which a continuous villain.

(51:17):
I like a lot more because you have more compelling
characters and it shows like, you know, we everyone everyone
goes on the show can be a villain in a
hero Tyler Cameron could have been an amazing villain, you
know what I'm saying, Like, um, it just does. It's
as we're all humans, are complicated humans with layers that

(51:38):
we go on a show and they choose to oversimplify us.
Ben Higgins could have been a villain. It was had
harder with Ben. It's possible, you know, you know, uh yeah,
it's just um. So I like this weekly version where
they can show you know, people, it's essentially people having
good days and bad days, and that's more interesting to

(51:59):
watch for me. Now if you had I didn't answer
the question because I thought watching this that like, if
we were going to have an ongoing villain, it was
going to be Sally. So let's talk Sally for a second.
Sally is the previously engaged girl who we touched on
earlier in the episode, Like, so you do think she'll

(52:20):
be back? So last week, if you guys listened, you
think you think she'll be back for Paradise. I think
she's come back this season. That's finish, Okay, okay, So
last week I said on the podcast, Um, I believe
that this girl was engaged so recently as of the summer,

(52:42):
Like I think she had a bachelorette party over the summer,
and she keeps talking about, you know, being there on
the set now during the day of her wedding, I
and she said like I have been previously engaged, or
like she was very egg about the timeline, right. Um.

(53:03):
I also know that the girls didn't know that Clayton
was the Bachelor until like pretty much like everything was
signed and they were like flying out. So I feel like,
what if she really did dump her fiance for going
on to the Bachelor, but then realized it was Clayton
and was like, Okay, maybe this isn't a reason, Maybe
this isn't good enough for me to leave this guy

(53:26):
at home. I'm also just like throwing things out there.
My sister, she's this guy. This girl, Sally is from Virginia.
My sister is a hairdresser. She hears all the gossip.
She knows one of her clients is no Sally, and
apparently Sally is now back together with her fiancee, So

(53:52):
so what's up? Did it seems like she may have
just showed up, got cold feet about doing the Bachelor thing,
realized that this isn't better than just being with the
guy that she was with. Well, yeah, you bring up
a lot of things. Let's unpack it. Um I didn't

(54:12):
know that stuff, right, you know. Uh, on face value,
I think the show did her like they did her
a solid because if you're her fiancee, you can lie
to yourself after watching this, because you know, she's like
she needed, like she needed to meet Clayton, and even
though she called him hot, she was like, you know,

(54:32):
I know, I'm good. Like, you know, if Tyler Cameron
was the Bachelor, I wonder if she would still being
getting you know, gotten back. I don't know. Um uh
you know, so like why did you need to meet him?
You know, she literally said I wanted to meet him?
And despite her being like you're so hot, she was like, yeah, no,
I'm good. She was like I'm showing up to say goodbye,

(54:55):
Like why are you saying goodbye to somebody that you've
never met? Just leave? Yeah? Well that was the producer
is being like you should beat it before you quit,
um is my guess. And and and of course it
was such an amazing It was like the best scene
of this episode, and it told us everything you know
about the season. Um, yeah, that's all true. It's certainly

(55:17):
the timeline adds up to her. I mean speaking like
big picture, like if this was like someone calling it
an ethnic episode. She did not break up with him
to go in the Bachelor. She broke up with him
because deep down she knows that this isn't her guy,
and The Bachelor was an amazing opportunity and and what

(55:38):
a great rebound to not getting married. And I guess
I I actually applaud Sally for regardless of whether she
was in the Clayton or not, because like, I mean,
let's be real here, like, um, I like I loved
who who's the girl? Who's the second girl who broke
up with Clayton? Oh my god, she was amazing. That

(56:00):
was amazing. It is the best. That was my favorite
part of the episode. She was hilariously real. And every
episode of The Bachelor, Oh Ben, he's amazing. Oh Nick,
you're amazing. The thirty women and not show up in
my season, I'll think I was amazing, you know what
I'm saying like that, and like like there's like at

(56:21):
least one girls, like you know, what not, my guy,
I'm good, you know. And and so I actually give
Sally credit for you know, whether she's in the clan
or not. She could have been like I'm gonna get
followers or whatever or just be on TV. And you know,
I don't know, but like she you know, if if, if,

(56:43):
what you're saying is true. I know, and I was,
I want to reiterate it could be hearsay. Um, you know,
you do open yourself up to this when you sign
up for the show. Another question that I have is
if you were going to get married in September, when
did you sign up for the show or she kind
of been scouted last second? I mean, uh Ben Ben

(57:07):
m Ben from the other Ben the guy was like
casting a week before filming or something like that. Um,
so it's possible. Um, but listen big like life life advice,
Like I don't these two should not be dating anymore. Yeah,

(57:30):
let's move on. You know, I'm not trying to blant
point fingers or who's right or who's wrong. But you
broke up for a reason, and good for you for realizing.
I just don't like, how do you sell that I
went on the Bachelor? It made me realize I needed
to marry you, like I don't know, I don't to here.
Here's here's what I'm saying. Either she broke up with

(57:54):
him to go on the Bachelor, and that's just shallow
and she only to realize like Clayton TV followers, whatever,
So I'm gonna go back to the guy that I
initially broke up with. She supposedly an orthopedic surgeon. Whatever,
it doesn't matter, it has nothing to do with that.
But what I'm saying like, or she broke up with

(58:16):
them because their relationship, you know, because they you know,
they they weren't compatible, you know what I'm saying, Like
deep down she was like orthopedic surgeon or not not
my guy, and the Bachelor was the catalyst, you know.
The Bachelor was like, you know, my first relationship. I
broke up with her finally after seven years of off

(58:38):
and on because I met someone else and I needed
I needed that push, so to speak. And we've all
been there. So I hope it's the latter and not
the former, because that would be of her. That would
be you know, to break up with someone to go
on a TV show, break up with your engagement or
can't slow wedding. So I think it's a really bad
look if they're back together. Uh, but what I saw

(59:01):
on TV, I actually felt for her and I thought
that was a genuine moment. Uh, the ears the truth
that we probably won't hear much about it from here
on out. I don't think that. I mean, unless she
shows back up. I think this is it's coming gone.
But it was a really interesting scene. And Nick, I
like that, you say, you know, it told us everything
we need to know about this season and how Clayton
was gonna handle situations. I I watched Sally, I was, um,

(59:25):
you know, a little very judgmental before this episode, knowing
she was on it, being like, I know the backstory
a little bit. I've read the articles. This is ridiculous.
How in the world is this gonna play out? What
is she doing? And after watching her, I said, Okay,
I get it. Like, maybe not the best decisions she's
ever made. She might not be thrilled that she's on
national television doing this, but I get it. And it

(59:47):
relationship moved on the Bachelor's awaiting and so and then
she decided she needs to leave that she can't even
do it. I get it. Totally good. Um. I want
to bring up before we let Nick go here once,
somebody did stand as to me that I think is
going to be a front runner this season, and I've
actually put her up with the Teddy camp on possibly
the next Bachelor at Uh. I don't think she got

(01:00:10):
enough air time, but I do believe we'll see more
of her. It's Susie from Virginia Beach. That. Yeah, I
think she stood out. I thought she handled herself well
and it felt like we saw just enough of her
to know that we need to start paying attention to
her as the season goes on. Well, she seems like

(01:00:31):
Kylin to me. I mean, first off, she is Miss Virginia.
Klin was from Virginia, was miss Um North Carolina, USA.
Just similar vibes. Um also a little Hannah Brown like
it's kind of like the two of them were to
meet each other. Uh yeah, I definitely see her getting far.

(01:00:52):
Oh we'll see Nick anything. Uh yeah, I could see her.
She she only has a bachelrette. Look for sure. She
seems like she's gonna be around for a while. Um yeah,
because it kind of has like a eventually unproblematic vibe
to her. I'm also I think I think Rachel. I

(01:01:15):
think we'll see more of I think she will be involved. Um,
I can see her being Top four h Sarah based
off the Supertees, which is risky to based on anything
off the Supertees seems like she Clayton says, I'm in
love with her? Who are to her? I think there's
a lot of editing in the Supertees? Was there at
the end, because I remember we we talked about like

(01:01:38):
does the bachelors spoil their own ending? You know, that
was one of our headlines a couple of weeks ago.
Now that I'm watching these, I think that there is
so much editing with that, like final of course, I mean,
they make it seem like Teddy's on the Final three.
And again I know exactly the producers all deserve to
be fired if she's not. And again, the only way

(01:02:02):
she is not in is if she leaves on her own.
And if she lives in her own, she lives in
her own. There's nothing you can do about it. Okay, Well,
leaving on your own. Let's wrap up the like our
our recap with leaving on your own. Claire left on
her own. He liked to do a little twist there
and said I sent her home, but she was not
interested at all, and I'm pretty sure she would have

(01:02:24):
not accepted his rose. I love Claire. Yeah, I wish
she was around a little bit longer, Like if they
if they could have just found out a way to
keep this from Clayton, and we get to see this
for two weeks that she does stick around for whatever
reason because she just wants to have a good time
and she just totally disrupts the everything. It would have

(01:02:46):
been amazing television. But she was good television for one
episode and she was honest, and you saw it in
that date, Like I mean Nick and Ashley, you both
get this moment that they had right you are it's
night one or it's two weeks in through because there's
a lot of people to tell you you're talking to somebody,
and somebody else comes up after spending let's say, ten
minutes with that other person, which is a long time

(01:03:07):
on night one to spend with one one person, and
somebody comes up and says, hey, can I interrupt you
for a second, And you, as the bachelor or you
as a contestant, you want to say yeah, like you
can because I know how this works like there's a rhythm,
there's a flow. We gotta keep going here. And then
you always have that one person that's like disappointed, mad
at you for leaving, thinking it's personal. That's what happened
in that moment. I felt for Clayton. But Clayton just

(01:03:28):
need to put it. I mean Clayton just kind of
like walked away. What he needed to do is be like, hey,
there's a lot of people who talk to you. I've
enjoyed this day with you. If he did, this has
been fun for me. But I gotta keep talk going.
And he moves on and said he's kind of walks away,
leaving her sitting there eating a chicken wing. No wonder.
She's a little pissed, like, no wonder, She's like, there's
no connection here. He just totally dropped me. He wasn't
into her, she wasn't into him. And just a little

(01:03:50):
side note. Jill, who is from Rhode Island and who
have met a couple of times now, she worded it
to me when talking about the first episode without even
seeing it, that Claire left on her own. Yeah, I mean,
I don't know, Ben, I think you're being a little
hard uh on on Clayton in terms of you remember,
like Night one is an absolute insane mass um. There's

(01:04:16):
a lot of a lot of conversations in the moment
where I wish, I like I would have said this
or would have said that, because I wanted to make sure,
you know, I don't know, like, I think it's great
that she did that. I think I think to judge
Clayton about how perfect response when you have thirty different

(01:04:38):
people grabbing at you is kind of insane expectation. So
to say that Clayton should have done something different, I
think would be unfair to Clayton. But at the end
of the day, she's like, let's think of that. She
wasn't vibing them, you know, it was not my guy.
You know, She's just like she's not into him, and
instead of like sticking around and hoping to like be

(01:05:00):
on TV, she just opted to leave. So I applaud
her for that. But I think it would be unfair
to criticize that anything Caitlin Clayton did in that moment,
you know, given how insane Night one is and that
one's insane, But I do I guess the way to
look at that is they were into each other if
he was really into her, he would have made sure
she knew that before he left. Like that that sure,

(01:05:24):
but except can you imagine could you imagine? I don't
know, I I probably would fall a lowether or not that
I'm thinking about it out loud, but uh, what's what
was her? What was her name? Serene? Was it Serene? Yeah? Serene? Uh,
maybe a potential villain by the way, but also like
stunning and uh, I'm really curious about learning more about her.

(01:05:45):
But like she goes up to Clayton and she's like
the night one tattle Tale. She's like, oh, by the way,
this girl's like saying somethings and I'm like, I'm not
sure you want to hear. And he's like like what
And she's like that she hates you, that you're too nice,
that only these bad boys. Well, um, final girls to
go home. During this episode, uh, where Havanna, Jane and Haley.

(01:06:09):
Haley was a surprise to me more than any of
those others. I thought she was gonna be around a
little bit longer. I actually think on our previous episode
that we broke down the cast, I thought she'd be
around a lot longer. But those three go home and uh,
and you know what we missed on this episode. Maybe
it's not a thing anymore. We missed the final exits
outside when the sun is up and they're so tired
and they're so angry, and they're just just want to

(01:06:30):
go home and eat. We don't have that anymore, and
those are some of my favorite parts. But we didn't
get to see. You know what that means, Ben, I
already have too much goodness. There we go. We'll throw
that in. You throw that in only when you don't
have enough. I will say. When it comes to first episodes,
I was. I was intrigued. Ben and I are constantly

(01:06:51):
after the first episode being like, oh, it's always the same,
it's so formula. There were nice little pops throughout this
episode between the Sally thing and the Claire thing that
really kept me engaged. Yeah, I can't agree. I would
I enjoyed it. I didn't. For the first time in years,

(01:07:12):
in years, I enjoyed Night one. I am excited to
watch this season. I'm excited to watch it for many reasons.
I do think, Uh, Clayton is probably a really nice guy,
and I think it's gonna be really hard for him.
But I do think he's a nice guy. I think
that he was chosen because he's a nice guy. And
after talking to you guys during this episode, I get
why he was chosen because we need some mess It's

(01:07:33):
you know, Michelle was incredible, but she kept things under control,
she kept people operating, and she kept things going forward,
and at times maybe it did it a little boring
because she was so great at it that everybody knew
their role, they knew where they stood, and the drama
was limited. So this season it's gonna get messy. I
have to say one thing. I saw this meme a
couple of days ago that was, like, um, Michelle and

(01:07:57):
Nate got two hundred thousand dollars for their down payment
just because they followed the rules. Nick, any thoughts, Yeah,
I think I actually mentioned that on the recap today too,
because actually we didn't talk about in the finale. I
think they Yeah, I don't think it's a coincidence. I
don't think it's going to be the new norm. I honestly,

(01:08:18):
to get it has everything to do with the fact that,
like Michelle, uh is the first lead in a long
time where they truly believe that she like the being
the bat Trat wasn't like a new path for her.
It was a small detour in her life. And she
has every intention of sticking it out in Minnesota and

(01:08:39):
staying in education and and not going on Dancing with
the Stars or not being an influencer. And I'm not sure.
I'm sure. I hope she does take advantage of the
platform and make a little coin on the side, But
I think it has everything to do with you know,
because that's the dream. Like in a perfect world, Mike Flies,
every lead would just like stay in their hometown and

(01:09:03):
and and fall in love and that person would move
their hometown and buy a house and have babies and
and like that hasn't happened in a long time. And
you know, in the grand scheme of things, I don't
think two d dollars is a big deal to them,
and I don't think it's gonna be the new norm.
But I think it has everything to do with Michelle
and the choices she's made and throughout her filming and

(01:09:23):
more importantly, the choices she's made from filming on that
they they are rewarding her for not necessarily following all
the rules, but for being the kind of bat sharette
post filming that they've always wanted to have incredibly interesting theory,
especially since they put it towards the home in Minnesota. Yeah,

(01:09:46):
I bet there's a lot of stipulations about how it
has to it can be spent and things like that, right,
and not towards a home in l a correct Good
for them though. Well, Nick, thanks for joining us today.
You're always a delight, always a pleasure. Wishing the best.
Thanks for your wisdom and your insight. Hope talk to
you again soon. Uh and please go check out Nick

(01:10:07):
on his podcast. Also go check out Nick on Instagram
all the time, but especially on Sundays when you ask
questions with Nick. Nick, thanks a lot, man, Thanks for
having guys. Always a delight, fine Nick, so much fun. Alrightyebye,

(01:10:31):
Well it's time for bachelor headlines. Yes, this week has
some headlines, and the first one it's just a little
interesting that get started. It's about Clayton, the Bachelor. Clayton
promises viewers will learn why he told multiple women he
loves them. This according to Variety, Yes, so, of course,
this is something we've been talking about multiple times over

(01:10:54):
the past couple of weeks, since we've seen the super
tease and um, he says that you'll be hearing about
this in interviews with Jesse Palmer. Um, he says, just
give me a shot, wait and see, and I promise

(01:11:14):
you'll have answers that you're looking for. I was able
to speak with some Bachelor alumni on my journey, and
they gave me great advice. I'm pretty sure he's referring
to Jesse, but we'll see. Maybe there's more. Um he said,
they gave me great advice because these people have been
through it before. I'm really excited for everyone to see
who those individuals were because their advice really helped shape

(01:11:36):
the way that I did. Um approach some scenarios. Um okay,
So basically he talked to people who said I love
you to multiple people in the past. Perhaps Michelle seemed
to embrace the fact that she did that and Um

(01:11:56):
doesn't regret it. Maybe to have been Michelle, could have
could have been you Ben, were you on this season?
It didn't tell us say I'm I'm always around, I
like to sneak around. I'm I'm there for it. Well,
next timeline is this? This one's interesting to me. Ashley
speaking to Michelle the Bachelor's Michelle Young and Nate reunite

(01:12:18):
with her ex Joe Coleman. This according to E Joe Coleman, Joe, Oh, Joe. Okay.
So Joe was of course third place guy, and they
are from the same town, you know, the same city.
And she said that, Um, she's run into Joe since

(01:12:41):
the bachelor at has ended, which is interesting because she's
supposedly it never you know, ratten into him previously because
of the basketball community. But in this quote from E,
she she is now running to into him because of
the basketball community. She goes Joe and I, uh didn't
leave on any bad terms. He's a wonderful person. Um Uh.

(01:13:06):
He has a good head on his shoulders and and
for that he wished me and Nate well. Nate and
Joe talk. Joe is a good friend. You make friends
on the show. It's interesting. Um, it's an interesting environment
with ex boyfriends. But Rodney is also a good friend.
Joe is a good friend. Um, They're coming to visit
in the near future. It's all love. I will say this.

(01:13:31):
The picture was like a little bit like you know,
it got headlines. I think it speaks to the strength
of Nate and Michelle's relationship more than anything. Oh good,
good point. Yeah. I think if you can hang out
with your ex, or if you can hang out with
somebody from the show so quickly after the show airing
and everybody's good. I just think it shows that, hey,
Joe's are his places at and it's not with Michelle,

(01:13:53):
and Nate knows here his places at and that's with Michelle,
and Michelle knows where her place with Nate is. It
just shows the strength of their relationship, which is something
really incredible that is really good because not many leads
would be so comfortable hanging out with their second runner
up this soon after. And I said that it was
because the basketball community brought them together. I actually think

(01:14:15):
that was unrelated. She did say that we come from
the same basketball community, but that's not why they've they've
seen each other since. And I also think, yes, it
speaks to the lead, but I also think it speaks
to Nate because just coming from experience, Yeah, he's pretty
secure and where they're at, And not a lot of
contestants that were chosen would want to hang out with
a top three person so quickly after the show. Um,

(01:14:40):
and so you know, big on them well, here's one
that I want to start by reading this headline by saying,
you know, we love this person dearly and in something
you know, in July of this year, I had a
similar season of life that was difficult and uh, kind
of confusing, and you don't always know where it comes from,

(01:15:01):
and you work through it, and hopefully there is working
through it. But I want to say that from both
actually myself and almost from his family were really um
thinking about Demi. Demi wrote on her social media and
this is the headline. Demi Burnett is having an emotional
breakdown every few hours, says her ego is livid. This

(01:15:23):
according to US Weekly, and and before actually kind of
explains what's going on, I do want to say, um,
we're rooting for you, Tommy. It sucks and it's hard,
and there's not any platitudes I want to throw out
here that will make this better or feel better. There's
nothing that anybody can really say. I'm thinking, we're we're
thinking about you because this is really difficult. Yeah, it's
really sad, and you know, we totally I mean, I

(01:15:46):
don't want to say that I can relate, but like
I feel her, you know what I mean? So she says,
I'm um, this is gonna be the hardest thing to
ever post, and I'm so embarrassed, but I'm going to
be real happy New Year. This is me. I'm not
doing anything to envy. I'm not happy, I'm not social.
I'm constantly thinking and crying and trying to figure everything out.

(01:16:11):
Countless hours of blaming myself for everything that's caused pain.
I haven't had a sip of alcohol in five months.
I'm talking to a psychiatrist on Monday. I'm having an
emotional breakdown every few hours. I'm feeling it pretty sty
and overwhelmed most of the time, but I know that
I am growing. Even if it hurts, it is worth it.

(01:16:35):
So sad, it is sad. My heart goes out to her.
It's it's it is sad, but it's also very human
and it's I appreciate her being so open and real
about it. Yea many. I mean when I was going
through in July, I've never felt so much support. But
I've also never um felt so numb to the support
than when you're in that season. You know no better

(01:16:56):
what somebody says, no matter how many message you get.
The only thing that ever held was when somebody would
look across table from me and say I'm in it too,
or I've been there or me too. Just to know
that you're not alone in it is it felt like
the most helpful thing. And so I just want to
say to anybody, if you get a chance, reach out
to Demi and let her know if you felt something similar,
if you've been through a season of this, that she's

(01:17:18):
not alone, because she she will get through this. She's
a strong girl. But uh, Ashley, great episode, great first episode.
I'm excited to watch next week. I'm actually excited to
watch The Bachelor, which doesn't always happen for me. Uh,
I'm pumped up and uh and we'll see where it
goes from here. But we'll be breaking down Clayton's second

(01:17:38):
episode of his season of the Bachelor next week right
here on Almost Famous Podcast. Until then, I've been Been,
I've Been Ashley. Hi. Follow the Benn and Ashley I
Almost Famous podcast on I Heart Radio or subscribe wherever
you listen to podcasts.