January 20, 2021 • 33 mins
Breaking Bachelor Break-Ups.
Ben and Ashley discuss the breaking news of Clare and Dale’s split! Did they see this coming? What REALLY happened?
And we try to get to the bottom of why there have been so many Bachelor Nation break-ups recently.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
with her radio Wow Ashley. It is nine thirty at
night where I'm at in Orlando, Florida. I'm here for
the Dim Resorts Golf tournament, and we felt like it
was time to have a special almost famous podcast with
the huge Bachelor news that came up this week. Yep,
(00:23):
so Claire and Dale broke up. And if you guys
are looking at the post on social media, doesn't seem
like anybody is surprised. That is kind of sad to say,
but I would say that there's been signs. Last week
we were talking about how there was a report that
there was some tension going on, because actually it wasn't
(00:43):
even last week. It was a couple of days ago. Um.
She was holding her mom's hand, talking about how it
was an emotional day. She wasn't showing off her wedding ring.
Claire and Dale hadn't been up, hadn't been seen together
on social media for I guess a little over a week.
And Dale had also posted a Bible passage, so people
were just thinking that they were going through a rough
(01:04):
time at the same time. So it put up red
flags for the fandom. And just yesterday they confirmed that
they broke up. It was kind of interesting the way
it unraveled though. So first there was a report from
E News that Claire and Dale were taking time apart.
(01:27):
They said that they've been fighting a lot recently, that
the main disagreement was over lifestyle differences, lifestyle preferences, and
that Dale wanted to live in a lively, big city
focus on his career and Claire wanted to stay in
Sacramento and helped take care of for mom. Bottom line
is it was very tense between them. Um. And then
(01:49):
there was also an insider who said that Dale felt
like he was rushing into something that he was unsure
about that were still trying it to know each other,
figuring it all out. So the whole BottomLine, like earlier
in the day, was that taking some time apart was
the theme. But it wasn't that long after that report
came out that Dale posted a breakup announcement and this
(02:12):
was not a time apart type situation that he was
a painting a picture of. He was telling everybody it's
done now. Ben. My theory on this. My theory on
this is that Claire and Dale felt like they needed
to acknowledge all the rumors. So they put out or
(02:33):
she put out, this is just speculation that they were
taking time apart, and she in her head was thinking, maybe, um,
we can reconcile, maybe we can figure this out. I
don't want to announce anything like a definitive breakup yet.
And then I think that that Dale was like, I'm
over it. No, this is a breakup. This isn't time apart,
(02:56):
And that's why he went on Instagram and just addressed
it himself. I hope not like, I really hope that's
not how that's played out. So there's a lot to
uncover here. Obviously, we have a whole podcast to talk
about it. Actually, just gave you the headlines and everything
going on. Actually, I wanted to dissect a little bit
of what you said. One of the things is you
(03:16):
kind of started out by saying, it doesn't seem like
many people were surprised by this. Well, I think there's
a few reasons for that, right. One is, the rumors
have been swirling for the last week and a half
that something was going on, right, so like the surprise
had been taken away. I know when you and I
first saw the headlines, Uh, that there is trouble and paradise.
(03:36):
We both in a sense of this mystic, like there's
always these type of rumors with bachelor couples. And then second,
as they continued and we started to read why people
were assuming this, we were shocked at first as well.
But the shock we're off when it just kept happed,
like when the headline just kept coming out every day
that something was going on. So that's one reason why
I don't think it was shocked. The second reason is
obviously the storeline that this couple has with fascination. We've
(04:00):
never seen anything like this before. You know, they came
on a show. A few weeks later, they leave together.
Like when they left together, our hope as somebody that
like Claire a lot, was like, Hey, I hope she's
throwing all of rigs into this basket because she knows
that's the right thing. That's why I then, and I
want to throw it to you for a second. That's
(04:22):
why Then when the comment is made, uh that somebody
said Dale felt like they're rushing into something, Well, yes,
but he agreed to that, Like you know what, he
knew where Claire was at, he knew where she stood,
She knew her where her intentions were. He knew that
by her saying, Dale, if you're into this thing, like
we're going to leave together, Like he knew the risk
(04:42):
that she was taking and so like did he just
not like a what? Like why now is he gonna
over rushing? Like back then there rushing. I feel like
I'm going to say something that I don't know for sure,
but I think that a lot of people listening will
agree with me on I feel like there are a
lot of signs from the start. Then he was in
it for the fame and his Instagram. It was a
(05:06):
little bit worrisome early on, just like the vibes you
got from it just seemed like a guy who like
wanted the limelight, right, And I think, if I'm going
to be super honest, there were a lot of signs
during that sit down with Chris Harrison, like I really
didn't want to believe it, and especially when I was
(05:27):
watching her four weeks of the episodes, I was like, yeah,
like I'm into it. I'm just gonna like try not
to be so cautious because this is a little bit bizarre,
you know, Like I don't think love at first sight
is bizarre, but like I do think that it was
an unconventional way of like going through your season and
(05:48):
leaving really and not really like getting to know the
guy completely. But I get it. I get it. I
totally get it. And you guys know, like how many
times I explained like how you were Actually I was
like drawing fully, Yeah, exactly, I was, but not at first.
You You Dale won you over because you finally said,
I'm gonna shoot, like, I'm liking him because of the
(06:10):
way he's speaking to Claire and the way he's reaffirming
Claire and the way that he's processing like the quick
movement of this relationship. You won his team because you
thought he had Claire's best interest in Yeah. So, like
I was really hesitant at first, and then I was like, Okay,
I'm just going to be who I am truly, which
is the internal optimist. And then and I bought it,
(06:31):
Like I was totally like all in felt it felt
felt it until that sit down with Chris Harrison, and
I just thought there was like a lot of bi
language things, like I just felt like he was like
trying to he was forcing a smile. I think when
she said babies, it's wild that stood out like everyone
everyone so clearly like yes it's TV, and yes we
(06:53):
watch this and a lot of times like did it
really happen that way? But live TV doesn't lie. And
when we all saw that, we went something's wrong here, Yeah,
we all did. And like I think some of us
try to laugh it off, be like, oh my god,
she went straight for the babies and he said marriage.
But if you rewatch that clip like I did this week,
it's like all over his face that he's kind of like,
(07:14):
oh God, what have I gotten myself into? I wonder
if that's a moment to hit like one of the
moments to hit him, But you know, it's what Okay,
So if you know that your opinion, um, what you're
intelli to is like hey, using it for the fame,
I wouldn't disagree with you. I think, like a lot
of people are. I think he came onto this excited.
I mean his Instagram profile said that he wanted to
(07:36):
be a host. Is that the career now? Like you
think he's focusing on do we know, like is that
kind of is the modeling and hosting the career path
he's going down? And he was maybe at first going
on the show, like a lot of people do to say, hey,
this is going to help that career, and now he
found himself in a relationship and now he's like, well, crap,
I don't know what to do, which just like, seriously,
(07:57):
no shame to that. Like I've been very honest that,
like I had those sorts of intentions as well going
on the show. But I also, like I've said a
ba jillion times, I knew that my number one priority
in life was finding love, was having a family and
all that, and Claire just made it so clear that
(08:18):
like marriage and children were her priority in this that
I think it was a little bit I don't know
what the right word is, Well, certainly unfortunate that I
don't think that Dale was ready for that. And I
say that because that is one of the things that
the insiders are saying. I don't even know if it's
(08:40):
an insider. I think it actually might be Dale himself,
um who says that he just isn't ready for kids
in marriage right now, which is fine, But then you
don't go on Claire Crawleys season. You don't do that.
You can go on you can you could go on
somebody else's season and then be like okay, and then
we're gonna we're gonna date and we're gonna be engaged
(09:03):
and we're gonna enjoy that for like two years. But
you know that Claire wanted that immediately and definitely. Well, actually, uh,
let's take a break here. When we came back, I
want to talk to you about some headlines leading up to,
you know, their breakup that confused me and I need
your clarity on we'll be back with the almost furna
this podcast. All right, Ashley, I don't think it was
(09:33):
any more than a week here, maybe two episodes ago
that we had read a headline that Dale had gone
onto the bachelorette. He was obviously asked on, but he
only went on because Claire Crawley was the bachelorette, like
and he and this obviously was a recent article. So
he was speaking about this and and saying it with
you know, positive with positive words about Claire not more
(09:55):
than two weeks ago. So do you think this breakup
kind of like when do you think it ended? Um?
Because I remember the headline that came out this said
he only went on this season for Claire also was
kind of coming out alongside the headlines that were saying, hey, there,
this isn't going well for Dale and Claire. Okay, I
actually feel like some sort of back alleyway I know
(10:18):
when it happened, because you know that beach house that
they spent some time at a couple of weeks ago,
maybe like a month or so ago, it's called it's
called Lahoya Beach House. Um, well, they reached out to
us to see if we wanted to have a little
stay there as well. So I was going back and
forth with the owner and they were like, Claire and
(10:39):
Dale are right are there right now? Um, they just
can't get enough of it there. And that was a
week ago, last Friday, So that was like okay, so
maybe almost two weeks ago. Okay, So I feel like
that was I'm totally speculating here, but that really aligns
with the meaning at those Instagram posts. So I think
(11:02):
that that was like their last trip together, like the
last extended period of time I had together. Yeah. Well, uh,
I mean, I know there's there's a lot of speculation
going on here, and I know having a kind of
like a rush podcast about a breakup seems and sensitive.
But let's stop here and just say, like we're just
(11:25):
trying to talk about something it's obviously bigger in Bachelor Nation.
And really this whole podcast is to go through a
lot of the recent breakups and bachelation because there has
been a tome quarantine has been hard on people, and
it's it's left some couples kind of looking for answers. Uh,
breakup suck, um, and they really suck when you're there.
They're talked about publicly, but they're gonna be talked about
(11:46):
publicly as part of going on the show. We're invested
into the love stories of these couples. Uh. I do
want to stop here though and say, Ashley, I really
feel for Claire just so much, Like she really wanted
this opportunity. We've been always speak to her privately a
few months back, and like being the Bachelor was a
(12:07):
big deal to her. She was very excited for it. Um,
she thought this was her chance that love. Remember Chris
Harrison telling her like this big chance that love, and
she felt like she got that second opportunity. And now
she finds herself it sounds like single again. Um. I
mean it just sucks. Like it's just hard to it's
(12:27):
hard to process. Yeah, it's just hard to process. Where
Claire is sitting, because we all know Claire was very
invested in this. Where does this leave Claire? Actually, you
know Claire fairly well, Like what where does this leave her? Um?
I mean, I just hope that she finds somebody like
right away and it's a big laughing the in Dale's face,
(12:53):
because she'll end up getting her happily ever after. And
maybe if it's like the way that you did, maybe
this guy sees her on the show, or like she's
led to this person because of her involvement in the show.
I don't know, And I just want to clarify what
I said earlier about Dale not being ready for marriage
and kids. That was from the source. Um, he's the
(13:17):
source says he did have feelings for Claire, but just
wasn't on the same page as her. He was hoping
it would grow, um and he would come around to this,
but just no, Well it's heartbreaking. Ben. Do you remember
how excited I was, like so so excited when Claire
(13:37):
was announced as the bachelorette, And I was like, nobody
is more deserving than this, And I hate using that
we're deserving in this situation because I think everybody truly
deserves love. But everything that she went through and like
the way she carries herself, I just really felt like
it was her time. Well, her time might not be up,
(13:58):
actually be as there's a recent turn of events. Uh,
Dispatch nations very Spencer Robinson, if you remember, I think
he received as like first impression resume. We've never really
heard from him again. Um, he has already shot his
shot with Clear on Instagram publicly. Is it too soon
to do that? It's not too soon for Spencer to
(14:20):
do that, That's cute. It would be too soon for
Claire to accept via Twitter or Instagram? Okay, what do
you Yeah? You agree? Yeah, I mean we've we've talked
about any times on the podcast. How soon is too soon?
I don't know if you can answer that, Like, I
don't know if there is a good answer. We've asked everybody. Um,
it's whenever Claire feels like she's ready. And but yes,
(14:40):
Spencer has reached out to her. Um, he's obviously interested. Uh.
You know, I think we could probably assume that he
went on to the season expecting Claire to be the
bachelor at Yeah, so he you know, we know he
has intrigued there. Uh not against it. I'm glad he
kind of did it. Maybe a little too soon for him,
(15:02):
like maybe he should have just take a step back
if he's really interested in this and said, Okay, let
me give her some time to heal. But then again,
like what if she is to find somebody, you know,
Prince Charming in the corner, he would miss a shot.
So hey, I can't hate the guy for it. Um Now,
Ashley to kind of close this thought about Dale and Claire, uh,
we we have heard that they're trying to work through this.
(15:23):
This is came in from a couple of sources that yes,
they're taking time apart. Yes they you know this isn't
going well, but they are trying to work through it.
Do you believe they're working through it? Do you believe
the Claire and Dale story is over? If you had
to guess, no, I think it's over. I think that's
why he put kind of like the bullet through it
yesterday when he posted that Instagram, because she hasn't said
(15:46):
anything yet, so I think he was like, this is over.
Don't want anybody to think that there's hope. And I
think it's so sad, Like it's so sad. I know, like,
there were just so many breakups this year that we'll
go into. But like this one deaf when really ranks
as far as the heart ranch goes, it really does
what it has actually just mentioned. There has been a
(16:07):
couple of breakups in Bachelor Nation this year. Some hurt
really bad. Most of them hurt really bad. Breakups just
hurt in every way. Uh, we're gonna talk about all
these breakups kind of run through the list. Um and
when we come back with almost Fanas podcast, Well we're back.
(16:34):
We're gonna talk about the breakups this uh, well within
the last like twelve months in Bachelor Nation. Uh. This
list is surprising because there's a lot of people here
we know, we love. Uh, it's just not ideal. And
obviously with the recent news of Dale and Claire, which
is huge news and Bachelor Nation, it's a it's a
lead and and their partner breaking up. We have to
(16:56):
talk about it this week because we didn't get to
it on the last episode this week because it hadn't
happened yet. Well, Ashley, let me read through this list.
There's another big breakup that was announced and this one,
this one really hurts too. It's Brees styles and Chris
Watson announced their breakup in January. This January, I mean
(17:16):
that one's really hard. They're they're from Listen to Your Heart.
That one sucks. And then um, JP and Ashley obviously
that was the one that shocked that donation. The next
one is one that I know you have a heart
tied to Carly and Evan. Yeah. Um, Crystal and Chris,
(17:38):
Now that's one that's like really was hard to hear.
You know. We like when it happened, We're like, man,
we were there at the wedding, We're excited for them.
But then it looks like Crystal has like found her
perfect match, and so what do you do? Do you sell?
You know, it was hard at first, but now we
celebrate her. Um. Becca and Garrett, Now that's one, Yeah
(18:00):
that like, you know, I was with him on a
bus and there was no signs at the time. I
could have never told you that. And then it ended
and they've both got their separate ways. Garrett, you know,
I think it's still dating the girl that he moved
on to after Becca. Becca's in l A. Now, Um,
that one was wild. And then Peter and Kelly, Uh,
that one, I would say it feels most like Clarendale.
(18:22):
It was like, what's really going on here? This seems wild,
this seems crazy. Nobody can keep up with it. So like,
but I mean, that's a wild list. And and the
one that I don't want to dismiss and I want
to hear your thoughts on is the one Breathe and
Chris from Listen to Your Heart. I mean I watched
that show for the podcast, and not a lot of
(18:43):
people in Batchel Nation watched that show, but we watched
that show because we covered it. And that was a
couple that you're like, this is magical, Like this this
show is gonna work for at least one couple and
it's all been worth it. That one's tough. Yeah. I
felt it between them too. I guess I feel like
for them, it like probably was a distance thing. I
just don't know if they ever really like decided to
(19:07):
move closer to each other. But then you know, there's
the age old. If you really need to be with somebody,
you figure that out. So they probably weren't meant to be. Yeah, Well,
a lot of breakups and Batchel Nation this year. Hey,
somebody's been there. I'm sorry. This sucks. It's not fun.
(19:27):
It's not fun to have to listen to a podcast
that people talk about it. It's not fun to see
that on TV. But I mean, it is what you
sign up for. Um. You know you sign up to
find love. You also sign up for with the risk
that that love is gonna work and that everybody is
going to talk about your breakup. And here's the truth. Um,
the hope I guess, because I know from my experience too,
(19:48):
is uh that you're better for it, that you find
the love of your life. That Claire finds love of
for life. We want Dale to find that as well,
and all these other couples that we just talked about. Um,
but until you can do that, there is some grieving
that's going to take place, I know from experience. In
and in just a second, we're gonna have one of
our favorite guests, Dr Hillary Goldscher. She came on to
(20:10):
a past episode just a few months ago. She is
a licensed clinical psychologist with a private practice in Beverly
Hills and specializes in treatment of couples, relationships, depression, anxiety, trauma, grief,
and eating disorders. We're going to just dig into what
it's like to go through a breakup how do you
process best, and then how do you speak to somebody?
I think, um, who is within that trauma and who
(20:32):
has been hurt? Dodger. Why has more bachelor couples broken
up this year than any other year in the past. Well,
I don't think that we can ignore that that we
are in a pandemic and all of the restrictions and
(20:54):
intimacy requirements that that bestows upon couples. And so whether
it's a distance challenged or a um distance challenge from
the standpoint of being away from each other or together
too much, I think it certainly can bring to the
forefront issues that can get diluted, and particularly in the
bachelor world by all the outside noise and stuff, um,
(21:18):
the fame and the excitement of the activity and attention,
I think can dilute some of the core issues that
perhaps more easily and painfully reveal themselves in a pandemic setting.
You know, it's so it's interesting, It's always helpful talk
to you because obviously we sit and we just had
(21:38):
we've had a whole podcast talking about breakups, and you know,
Astley I were texting before this was like, hey, does
this feel insensitive? And obviously we have to cover the news,
and we have to cover what's going on in bachelination.
But just like last weeks with you, how do you
talk to somebody that's like just fresh out of into
a breakup, like they're just starting to like recon this
(22:00):
new season a lot? How do you become a friend
to them? How do you speak to them? Yeah? I
love that you asked that question. I think it's so
important because I think people have go to tactics in
these kind of scenarios, sensitive scenarios that may not be useful.
Either they want to move people off of the like
painful difficult feeling, or they want to avoid it so
(22:22):
as not to provoke the painful difficult feeling. And I think,
as we talked about last time, UM though in a
different context, that empathy is the best place to start.
Empathy and acknowledgement, that being able to say, I know
you're going through a tough time, I'm so sorry. That
has to be so hard, and not being able, not
trying to push them to another spot, not trying to
(22:44):
use like platitudes are hyperbole, like you're gonna be okay,
there's so many great guys out there for you, um
or whatever, folks might say as as meaning to be
of support, but um disallowing the person to kind of
linger um this difficult season of life that they're experiencing.
Nobody likes to go to go to someone and say
(23:06):
I'm really suffering and have someone else say some version
of like, you're gonna be okay? Right? That is so annoying.
But is it bad that I just said, Like, my
greatest hope for her is that she finds a guy
right away and can show him well, look, I think
things can coexist, right, and we can we can we
can have these things all co exist. We can both
(23:26):
say to someone I'm so sorry you're in pain. I'm
I'm so available to sit with you in it. We
don't have to fix it in this moment. You can
just be in the messiness of it. And we can
also hold out hopes and wishes for them right that.
I hope you find love. I hope it happens quickly.
I hope that the suffering um doesn't last as long
as um one might imagine. Right, those things can co exist,
(23:48):
and I think it's okay to allow them to. After
you've spent enough time lingering in the difficult parts with
someone it's it's really important to linger in difficult spaces
with people and not um try to move over them
too quickly. People can feel abandoned or not seen or
heard if we do that, even if we have the
(24:09):
best of intentions. How common is it in relationships to
have one person to have the breakup be over the
speed of the relationship, like I want to have kids
and get married right now, and the other person being like, WHOA,
(24:29):
I'm not in that place of life. I think that's
a regular theme that emerges for folks, and it can
be a heartbreaking one because people can have a lot
of love for each other and be compatible in so
many critical ways, but if that lifestyle piece is misaligned, um,
(24:50):
reasonable reasonable people will decide that they probably shouldn't say together.
Do you know that if people have different ideas about
what their timelines are uncritical life stuff like marriage and kids, religion,
et cetera, that it makes sense I'll be at quite
painful decisions to make. It makes sense to decide to
part ways if those those differences can't be bridge and
(25:11):
that happens a lot for people on those are the
sources of some of the biggest heartbreaks is when there's
love there, but you can't um um find a way
to to bridge that gap. Well, it brings us into
kind of a question that I think so many people ask,
and right now it feels like a good time to
ask you if you were to give your high level
(25:34):
I don't know if there is one on when a
relationship is no longer healthy and when it does need
to end? What are the signs? Um? If anybody's out
there listening in a relationship but they're like, hey, I
just don't know where this is going, I don't know
if this is right or wrong, how would you guide them?
How would you counsel them? Yeah? I mean I mean
(25:56):
starting from the general and maybe breaking down to the
more specific. I mean, if if there is pain more
often than pleasure, a conflict more often than peace, if
the rhythm of the relationship is intervening with you know,
daily functioning, your relationships with your family, being effective at work,
(26:18):
your sense of your own self concept um, those are
our times that we really need to do some deep
reflection whether or not a relationship is serving us, you know.
So I think that's a more general answer, but a
really critical one that when it becomes um uh, invasive
in our daily functioning and in the critical areas of
(26:38):
our life that we want to be UM content and
peaceful is when we really need to do deep assessment
and deep evaluation. And one of the things that we
were just talking about is is having conflict or misalignment
around critical issues. And of course UM communication styles and
ability to navigate conflict is critical. I'm a couple of
(26:59):
therapist with couples all the time on on managing conflict
UM and building intimacy and navigating difficult topics. So it's
not that if you have trouble in these areas you
should just you know, break up. That's that's a mark
of of any couple really is to struggle on some
of these critical issues. But if UM you find no
(27:20):
way through even with UM uh professional help or deep
support from family or friends or pastors or um you know,
other areas of support and you can't find your way
through UM, it's it's important to do that that deep
reflection whether or not the relationship is serving you. So
we saw with Chris and Crystal, she moved on real quick, UM,
(27:43):
like really quick. Is there such thing as moving on
too soon? I Mean, it's such a tough one. I
I don't think, UM, you know, one size fits all
and UM we I'm sure everyone I'm in your audience
knows someone who's moved down too quickly and it didn't
serve them. And I'm sure everyone in the audience knows
(28:03):
someone who moved on quote too quickly and it did
serve them that it worked out. So I don't think
we can we can come up with sort of one
approach UM that makes the most sense. But to the
extent that UM, one needs to self reflect on what
didn't work in a relationship and how UM their own
contribution to the dynamics that were dysfunctional, UM, how it
(28:30):
showed up, how it emerged, how they managed it, where
it comes from. Those sorts of self evaluations and analysis
are critical not just to be in a relationship, but
critical to one one's own personal sort of sense of
groundedness and happiness. So I think post a relationship, it's
a good time to do a deeper dive into some
(28:51):
of those issues. But how we move through the world,
how we move through the relationship. I would always recommend UM,
to the extent possible, take time to to have a
post relationship like UM analysis you know, to understand what
worked and what didn't work, what we want moving forward,
what we don't UM. But sometimes timing um is a
(29:13):
funny thing, and someone shows up in our life UM
at a time that arguably is an ideal, But somehow
we can find a way to to merge. So UM,
I'm saying two things that could be considered conflictual. But
in the in the world of love, it it can be. Um.
It's not always linear. Mm hmm. It's a It's such
(29:35):
a great note for me that I'm writing down here
is the self awareness, the analysis, taking time afterwards to
be honest with yourself and be honest with the situation
and learn from it. Like I mean, how great a
teacher than pain? And it's uh, there's obviously a lot
of couples going through a lot of painful things right now,
and uh learning from that feel special. So you know,
(29:57):
to kind of close here, um, just because we're on
the topic. Oftentimes, Uh, you know, the breakup brings people
into a place of anxiety or or depression or there's
a lot of trauma involved. How do you how are
we to be good friends? And then how do we
(30:19):
also notice the signs of those things after a breakup. Yeah,
I mean, I think people sometimes fear that mentioning sadness
or asking about someone's grieving period will somehow make the
(30:40):
grieving worse or bring up something uncomfortable that the person
wasn't UM currently thinking of. But that's not really how
it goes people, UH sort of. Studies show UM areas
in arenas around this that UM when people bring up
feelings that are suppressed or already inside of us at
a make the feeling worse. It in fact helps it
(31:02):
to come up and out of us, rather than living
inside of us and becoming UM toxic or creating symptoms,
you know, like anxiety or depression or isolation. So all
of this to say that asking you know, how how
are you doing, or noticing you still seem really sad,
you really seem like you're struggling, how can I help?
And if you notice that someone's really struggling, UM, you
(31:25):
know that symptoms are impeding daily functioning that you help
guide them to UM the notion of UM outside professional interventions.
As you said, the aftermath of a of a breakup
can be really traumatic and cause a lot of brief
and depression anxiety. UM sort of uh, an interruption of
(31:45):
oneself concepts, and those can be really big critical things
and so sometimes a friend and familiar support is enough
and sometimes outside UH support is required. So I would
say like acknowledging and noticing out loud and not avoiding
the dis comfort of that well as always, Dr gold
Shirt's so great to have you on. Thank you once
(32:06):
again for coming and talking to us about some tough topics. UH.
This really helps summarize and put everything that we've talked
about before into a helpful place. DOCKR Gould Scher, thank you,
thank you. That'sua. Thanks for having me. Guys by. Okay, well,
weird episode because you know, it feels weird for us
to talk about people's breakups, but you know, this is
(32:31):
sort of like a huge headline, and that's what we
do here on the Almost As podcast. We have to
talk about huge headlines and Bachelor Nation. So our hearts
go out to Claren Dale. Um. Oh, it's sad, it's
really sad. Um, but we hope the best for them.
And until next week we have better news and we
(32:53):
try to find Matt James a wife. I've been actually
and I've been been. We'll talk to you later. Guy
followed the Bennon Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on iHeart
Radio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. M
This is the Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
with her radio Wow Ashley. It is nine thirty at
night where I'm at in Orlando, Florida. I'm here for
the Dim Resorts Golf tournament, and we felt like it
was time to have a special almost famous podcast with
the huge Bachelor news that came up this week. Yep,
(00:23):
so Claire and Dale broke up. And if you guys
are looking at the post on social media, doesn't seem
like anybody is surprised. That is kind of sad to say,
but I would say that there's been signs. Last week
we were talking about how there was a report that
there was some tension going on, because actually it wasn't
(00:43):
even last week. It was a couple of days ago. Um.
She was holding her mom's hand, talking about how it
was an emotional day. She wasn't showing off her wedding ring.
Claire and Dale hadn't been up, hadn't been seen together
on social media for I guess a little over a week.
And Dale had also posted a Bible passage, so people
were just thinking that they were going through a rough
(01:04):
time at the same time. So it put up red
flags for the fandom. And just yesterday they confirmed that
they broke up. It was kind of interesting the way
it unraveled though. So first there was a report from
E News that Claire and Dale were taking time apart.
(01:27):
They said that they've been fighting a lot recently, that
the main disagreement was over lifestyle differences, lifestyle preferences, and
that Dale wanted to live in a lively, big city
focus on his career and Claire wanted to stay in
Sacramento and helped take care of for mom. Bottom line
is it was very tense between them. Um. And then
(01:49):
there was also an insider who said that Dale felt
like he was rushing into something that he was unsure
about that were still trying it to know each other,
figuring it all out. So the whole BottomLine, like earlier
in the day, was that taking some time apart was
the theme. But it wasn't that long after that report
came out that Dale posted a breakup announcement and this
(02:12):
was not a time apart type situation that he was
a painting a picture of. He was telling everybody it's
done now. Ben. My theory on this. My theory on
this is that Claire and Dale felt like they needed
to acknowledge all the rumors. So they put out or
(02:33):
she put out, this is just speculation that they were
taking time apart, and she in her head was thinking, maybe, um,
we can reconcile, maybe we can figure this out. I
don't want to announce anything like a definitive breakup yet.
And then I think that that Dale was like, I'm
over it. No, this is a breakup. This isn't time apart,
(02:56):
And that's why he went on Instagram and just addressed
it himself. I hope not like, I really hope that's
not how that's played out. So there's a lot to
uncover here. Obviously, we have a whole podcast to talk
about it. Actually, just gave you the headlines and everything
going on. Actually, I wanted to dissect a little bit
of what you said. One of the things is you
(03:16):
kind of started out by saying, it doesn't seem like
many people were surprised by this. Well, I think there's
a few reasons for that, right. One is, the rumors
have been swirling for the last week and a half
that something was going on, right, so like the surprise
had been taken away. I know when you and I
first saw the headlines, Uh, that there is trouble and paradise.
(03:36):
We both in a sense of this mystic, like there's
always these type of rumors with bachelor couples. And then second,
as they continued and we started to read why people
were assuming this, we were shocked at first as well.
But the shock we're off when it just kept happed,
like when the headline just kept coming out every day
that something was going on. So that's one reason why
I don't think it was shocked. The second reason is
obviously the storeline that this couple has with fascination. We've
(04:00):
never seen anything like this before. You know, they came
on a show. A few weeks later, they leave together.
Like when they left together, our hope as somebody that
like Claire a lot, was like, Hey, I hope she's
throwing all of rigs into this basket because she knows
that's the right thing. That's why I then, and I
want to throw it to you for a second. That's
(04:22):
why Then when the comment is made, uh that somebody
said Dale felt like they're rushing into something, Well, yes,
but he agreed to that, Like you know what, he
knew where Claire was at, he knew where she stood,
She knew her where her intentions were. He knew that
by her saying, Dale, if you're into this thing, like
we're going to leave together, Like he knew the risk
(04:42):
that she was taking and so like did he just
not like a what? Like why now is he gonna
over rushing? Like back then there rushing. I feel like
I'm going to say something that I don't know for sure,
but I think that a lot of people listening will
agree with me on I feel like there are a
lot of signs from the start. Then he was in
it for the fame and his Instagram. It was a
(05:06):
little bit worrisome early on, just like the vibes you
got from it just seemed like a guy who like
wanted the limelight, right, And I think, if I'm going
to be super honest, there were a lot of signs
during that sit down with Chris Harrison, like I really
didn't want to believe it, and especially when I was
(05:27):
watching her four weeks of the episodes, I was like, yeah,
like I'm into it. I'm just gonna like try not
to be so cautious because this is a little bit bizarre,
you know, Like I don't think love at first sight
is bizarre, but like I do think that it was
an unconventional way of like going through your season and
(05:48):
leaving really and not really like getting to know the
guy completely. But I get it. I get it. I
totally get it. And you guys know, like how many
times I explained like how you were Actually I was
like drawing fully, Yeah, exactly, I was, but not at first.
You You Dale won you over because you finally said,
I'm gonna shoot, like, I'm liking him because of the
(06:10):
way he's speaking to Claire and the way he's reaffirming
Claire and the way that he's processing like the quick
movement of this relationship. You won his team because you
thought he had Claire's best interest in Yeah. So, like
I was really hesitant at first, and then I was like, Okay,
I'm just going to be who I am truly, which
is the internal optimist. And then and I bought it,
(06:31):
Like I was totally like all in felt it felt
felt it until that sit down with Chris Harrison, and
I just thought there was like a lot of bi
language things, like I just felt like he was like
trying to he was forcing a smile. I think when
she said babies, it's wild that stood out like everyone
everyone so clearly like yes it's TV, and yes we
(06:53):
watch this and a lot of times like did it
really happen that way? But live TV doesn't lie. And
when we all saw that, we went something's wrong here, Yeah,
we all did. And like I think some of us
try to laugh it off, be like, oh my god,
she went straight for the babies and he said marriage.
But if you rewatch that clip like I did this week,
it's like all over his face that he's kind of like,
(07:14):
oh God, what have I gotten myself into? I wonder
if that's a moment to hit like one of the
moments to hit him, But you know, it's what Okay,
So if you know that your opinion, um, what you're
intelli to is like hey, using it for the fame,
I wouldn't disagree with you. I think, like a lot
of people are. I think he came onto this excited.
I mean his Instagram profile said that he wanted to
(07:36):
be a host. Is that the career now? Like you
think he's focusing on do we know, like is that
kind of is the modeling and hosting the career path
he's going down? And he was maybe at first going
on the show, like a lot of people do to say, hey,
this is going to help that career, and now he
found himself in a relationship and now he's like, well, crap,
I don't know what to do, which just like, seriously,
(07:57):
no shame to that. Like I've been very honest that,
like I had those sorts of intentions as well going
on the show. But I also, like I've said a
ba jillion times, I knew that my number one priority
in life was finding love, was having a family and
all that, and Claire just made it so clear that
(08:18):
like marriage and children were her priority in this that
I think it was a little bit I don't know
what the right word is, Well, certainly unfortunate that I
don't think that Dale was ready for that. And I
say that because that is one of the things that
the insiders are saying. I don't even know if it's
(08:40):
an insider. I think it actually might be Dale himself,
um who says that he just isn't ready for kids
in marriage right now, which is fine, But then you
don't go on Claire Crawleys season. You don't do that.
You can go on you can you could go on
somebody else's season and then be like okay, and then
we're gonna we're gonna date and we're gonna be engaged
(09:03):
and we're gonna enjoy that for like two years. But
you know that Claire wanted that immediately and definitely. Well, actually, uh,
let's take a break here. When we came back, I
want to talk to you about some headlines leading up to,
you know, their breakup that confused me and I need
your clarity on we'll be back with the almost furna
this podcast. All right, Ashley, I don't think it was
(09:33):
any more than a week here, maybe two episodes ago
that we had read a headline that Dale had gone
onto the bachelorette. He was obviously asked on, but he
only went on because Claire Crawley was the bachelorette, like
and he and this obviously was a recent article. So
he was speaking about this and and saying it with
you know, positive with positive words about Claire not more
(09:55):
than two weeks ago. So do you think this breakup
kind of like when do you think it ended? Um?
Because I remember the headline that came out this said
he only went on this season for Claire also was
kind of coming out alongside the headlines that were saying, hey, there,
this isn't going well for Dale and Claire. Okay, I
actually feel like some sort of back alleyway I know
(10:18):
when it happened, because you know that beach house that
they spent some time at a couple of weeks ago,
maybe like a month or so ago, it's called it's
called Lahoya Beach House. Um, well, they reached out to
us to see if we wanted to have a little
stay there as well. So I was going back and
forth with the owner and they were like, Claire and
(10:39):
Dale are right are there right now? Um, they just
can't get enough of it there. And that was a
week ago, last Friday, So that was like okay, so
maybe almost two weeks ago. Okay, So I feel like
that was I'm totally speculating here, but that really aligns
with the meaning at those Instagram posts. So I think
(11:02):
that that was like their last trip together, like the
last extended period of time I had together. Yeah. Well, uh,
I mean, I know there's there's a lot of speculation
going on here, and I know having a kind of
like a rush podcast about a breakup seems and sensitive.
But let's stop here and just say, like we're just
(11:25):
trying to talk about something it's obviously bigger in Bachelor Nation.
And really this whole podcast is to go through a
lot of the recent breakups and bachelation because there has
been a tome quarantine has been hard on people, and
it's it's left some couples kind of looking for answers. Uh,
breakup suck, um, and they really suck when you're there.
They're talked about publicly, but they're gonna be talked about
(11:46):
publicly as part of going on the show. We're invested
into the love stories of these couples. Uh. I do
want to stop here though and say, Ashley, I really
feel for Claire just so much, Like she really wanted
this opportunity. We've been always speak to her privately a
few months back, and like being the Bachelor was a
(12:07):
big deal to her. She was very excited for it. Um,
she thought this was her chance that love. Remember Chris
Harrison telling her like this big chance that love, and
she felt like she got that second opportunity. And now
she finds herself it sounds like single again. Um. I
mean it just sucks. Like it's just hard to it's
(12:27):
hard to process. Yeah, it's just hard to process. Where
Claire is sitting, because we all know Claire was very
invested in this. Where does this leave Claire? Actually, you
know Claire fairly well, Like what where does this leave her? Um?
I mean, I just hope that she finds somebody like
right away and it's a big laughing the in Dale's face,
(12:53):
because she'll end up getting her happily ever after. And
maybe if it's like the way that you did, maybe
this guy sees her on the show, or like she's
led to this person because of her involvement in the show.
I don't know, And I just want to clarify what
I said earlier about Dale not being ready for marriage
and kids. That was from the source. Um, he's the
(13:17):
source says he did have feelings for Claire, but just
wasn't on the same page as her. He was hoping
it would grow, um and he would come around to this,
but just no, Well it's heartbreaking. Ben. Do you remember
how excited I was, like so so excited when Claire
(13:37):
was announced as the bachelorette, And I was like, nobody
is more deserving than this, And I hate using that
we're deserving in this situation because I think everybody truly
deserves love. But everything that she went through and like
the way she carries herself, I just really felt like
it was her time. Well, her time might not be up,
(13:58):
actually be as there's a recent turn of events. Uh,
Dispatch nations very Spencer Robinson, if you remember, I think
he received as like first impression resume. We've never really
heard from him again. Um, he has already shot his
shot with Clear on Instagram publicly. Is it too soon
to do that? It's not too soon for Spencer to
(14:20):
do that, That's cute. It would be too soon for
Claire to accept via Twitter or Instagram? Okay, what do
you Yeah? You agree? Yeah, I mean we've we've talked
about any times on the podcast. How soon is too soon?
I don't know if you can answer that, Like, I
don't know if there is a good answer. We've asked everybody. Um,
it's whenever Claire feels like she's ready. And but yes,
(14:40):
Spencer has reached out to her. Um, he's obviously interested. Uh.
You know, I think we could probably assume that he
went on to the season expecting Claire to be the
bachelor at Yeah, so he you know, we know he
has intrigued there. Uh not against it. I'm glad he
kind of did it. Maybe a little too soon for him,
(15:02):
like maybe he should have just take a step back
if he's really interested in this and said, Okay, let
me give her some time to heal. But then again,
like what if she is to find somebody, you know,
Prince Charming in the corner, he would miss a shot.
So hey, I can't hate the guy for it. Um Now,
Ashley to kind of close this thought about Dale and Claire, uh,
we we have heard that they're trying to work through this.
(15:23):
This is came in from a couple of sources that yes,
they're taking time apart. Yes they you know this isn't
going well, but they are trying to work through it.
Do you believe they're working through it? Do you believe
the Claire and Dale story is over? If you had
to guess, no, I think it's over. I think that's
why he put kind of like the bullet through it
yesterday when he posted that Instagram, because she hasn't said
(15:46):
anything yet, so I think he was like, this is over.
Don't want anybody to think that there's hope. And I
think it's so sad, Like it's so sad. I know, like,
there were just so many breakups this year that we'll
go into. But like this one deaf when really ranks
as far as the heart ranch goes, it really does
what it has actually just mentioned. There has been a
(16:07):
couple of breakups in Bachelor Nation this year. Some hurt
really bad. Most of them hurt really bad. Breakups just
hurt in every way. Uh, we're gonna talk about all
these breakups kind of run through the list. Um and
when we come back with almost Fanas podcast, Well we're back.
(16:34):
We're gonna talk about the breakups this uh, well within
the last like twelve months in Bachelor Nation. Uh. This
list is surprising because there's a lot of people here
we know, we love. Uh, it's just not ideal. And
obviously with the recent news of Dale and Claire, which
is huge news and Bachelor Nation, it's a it's a
lead and and their partner breaking up. We have to
(16:56):
talk about it this week because we didn't get to
it on the last episode this week because it hadn't
happened yet. Well, Ashley, let me read through this list.
There's another big breakup that was announced and this one,
this one really hurts too. It's Brees styles and Chris
Watson announced their breakup in January. This January, I mean
(17:16):
that one's really hard. They're they're from Listen to Your Heart.
That one sucks. And then um, JP and Ashley obviously
that was the one that shocked that donation. The next
one is one that I know you have a heart
tied to Carly and Evan. Yeah. Um, Crystal and Chris,
(17:38):
Now that's one that's like really was hard to hear.
You know. We like when it happened, We're like, man,
we were there at the wedding, We're excited for them.
But then it looks like Crystal has like found her
perfect match, and so what do you do? Do you sell?
You know, it was hard at first, but now we
celebrate her. Um. Becca and Garrett, Now that's one, Yeah
(18:00):
that like, you know, I was with him on a
bus and there was no signs at the time. I
could have never told you that. And then it ended
and they've both got their separate ways. Garrett, you know,
I think it's still dating the girl that he moved
on to after Becca. Becca's in l A. Now, Um,
that one was wild. And then Peter and Kelly, Uh,
that one, I would say it feels most like Clarendale.
(18:22):
It was like, what's really going on here? This seems wild,
this seems crazy. Nobody can keep up with it. So like,
but I mean, that's a wild list. And and the
one that I don't want to dismiss and I want
to hear your thoughts on is the one Breathe and
Chris from Listen to Your Heart. I mean I watched
that show for the podcast, and not a lot of
(18:43):
people in Batchel Nation watched that show, but we watched
that show because we covered it. And that was a
couple that you're like, this is magical, Like this this
show is gonna work for at least one couple and
it's all been worth it. That one's tough. Yeah. I
felt it between them too. I guess I feel like
for them, it like probably was a distance thing. I
just don't know if they ever really like decided to
(19:07):
move closer to each other. But then you know, there's
the age old. If you really need to be with somebody,
you figure that out. So they probably weren't meant to be. Yeah, Well,
a lot of breakups and Batchel Nation this year. Hey,
somebody's been there. I'm sorry. This sucks. It's not fun.
(19:27):
It's not fun to have to listen to a podcast
that people talk about it. It's not fun to see
that on TV. But I mean, it is what you
sign up for. Um. You know you sign up to
find love. You also sign up for with the risk
that that love is gonna work and that everybody is
going to talk about your breakup. And here's the truth. Um,
the hope I guess, because I know from my experience too,
(19:48):
is uh that you're better for it, that you find
the love of your life. That Claire finds love of
for life. We want Dale to find that as well,
and all these other couples that we just talked about. Um,
but until you can do that, there is some grieving
that's going to take place, I know from experience. In
and in just a second, we're gonna have one of
our favorite guests, Dr Hillary Goldscher. She came on to
(20:10):
a past episode just a few months ago. She is
a licensed clinical psychologist with a private practice in Beverly
Hills and specializes in treatment of couples, relationships, depression, anxiety, trauma, grief,
and eating disorders. We're going to just dig into what
it's like to go through a breakup how do you
process best, and then how do you speak to somebody?
I think, um, who is within that trauma and who
(20:32):
has been hurt? Dodger. Why has more bachelor couples broken
up this year than any other year in the past. Well,
I don't think that we can ignore that that we
are in a pandemic and all of the restrictions and
(20:54):
intimacy requirements that that bestows upon couples. And so whether
it's a distance challenged or a um distance challenge from
the standpoint of being away from each other or together
too much, I think it certainly can bring to the
forefront issues that can get diluted, and particularly in the
bachelor world by all the outside noise and stuff, um,
(21:18):
the fame and the excitement of the activity and attention,
I think can dilute some of the core issues that
perhaps more easily and painfully reveal themselves in a pandemic setting.
You know, it's so it's interesting, It's always helpful talk
to you because obviously we sit and we just had
(21:38):
we've had a whole podcast talking about breakups, and you know,
Astley I were texting before this was like, hey, does
this feel insensitive? And obviously we have to cover the news,
and we have to cover what's going on in bachelination.
But just like last weeks with you, how do you
talk to somebody that's like just fresh out of into
a breakup, like they're just starting to like recon this
(22:00):
new season a lot? How do you become a friend
to them? How do you speak to them? Yeah? I
love that you asked that question. I think it's so
important because I think people have go to tactics in
these kind of scenarios, sensitive scenarios that may not be useful.
Either they want to move people off of the like
painful difficult feeling, or they want to avoid it so
(22:22):
as not to provoke the painful difficult feeling. And I think,
as we talked about last time, UM though in a
different context, that empathy is the best place to start.
Empathy and acknowledgement, that being able to say, I know
you're going through a tough time, I'm so sorry. That
has to be so hard, and not being able, not
trying to push them to another spot, not trying to
(22:44):
use like platitudes are hyperbole, like you're gonna be okay,
there's so many great guys out there for you, um
or whatever, folks might say as as meaning to be
of support, but um disallowing the person to kind of
linger um this difficult season of life that they're experiencing.
Nobody likes to go to go to someone and say
(23:06):
I'm really suffering and have someone else say some version
of like, you're gonna be okay? Right? That is so annoying.
But is it bad that I just said, Like, my
greatest hope for her is that she finds a guy
right away and can show him well, look, I think
things can coexist, right, and we can we can we
can have these things all co exist. We can both
(23:26):
say to someone I'm so sorry you're in pain. I'm
I'm so available to sit with you in it. We
don't have to fix it in this moment. You can
just be in the messiness of it. And we can
also hold out hopes and wishes for them right that.
I hope you find love. I hope it happens quickly.
I hope that the suffering um doesn't last as long
as um one might imagine. Right, those things can co exist,
(23:48):
and I think it's okay to allow them to. After
you've spent enough time lingering in the difficult parts with
someone it's it's really important to linger in difficult spaces
with people and not um try to move over them
too quickly. People can feel abandoned or not seen or
heard if we do that, even if we have the
(24:09):
best of intentions. How common is it in relationships to
have one person to have the breakup be over the
speed of the relationship, like I want to have kids
and get married right now, and the other person being like, WHOA,
(24:29):
I'm not in that place of life. I think that's
a regular theme that emerges for folks, and it can
be a heartbreaking one because people can have a lot
of love for each other and be compatible in so
many critical ways, but if that lifestyle piece is misaligned, um,
(24:50):
reasonable reasonable people will decide that they probably shouldn't say together.
Do you know that if people have different ideas about
what their timelines are uncritical life stuff like marriage and kids, religion,
et cetera, that it makes sense I'll be at quite
painful decisions to make. It makes sense to decide to
part ways if those those differences can't be bridge and
(25:11):
that happens a lot for people on those are the
sources of some of the biggest heartbreaks is when there's
love there, but you can't um um find a way
to to bridge that gap. Well, it brings us into
kind of a question that I think so many people ask,
and right now it feels like a good time to
ask you if you were to give your high level
(25:34):
I don't know if there is one on when a
relationship is no longer healthy and when it does need
to end? What are the signs? Um? If anybody's out
there listening in a relationship but they're like, hey, I
just don't know where this is going, I don't know
if this is right or wrong, how would you guide them?
How would you counsel them? Yeah? I mean I mean
(25:56):
starting from the general and maybe breaking down to the
more specific. I mean, if if there is pain more
often than pleasure, a conflict more often than peace, if
the rhythm of the relationship is intervening with you know,
daily functioning, your relationships with your family, being effective at work,
(26:18):
your sense of your own self concept um, those are
our times that we really need to do some deep
reflection whether or not a relationship is serving us, you know.
So I think that's a more general answer, but a
really critical one that when it becomes um uh, invasive
in our daily functioning and in the critical areas of
(26:38):
our life that we want to be UM content and
peaceful is when we really need to do deep assessment
and deep evaluation. And one of the things that we
were just talking about is is having conflict or misalignment
around critical issues. And of course UM communication styles and
ability to navigate conflict is critical. I'm a couple of
(26:59):
therapist with couples all the time on on managing conflict
UM and building intimacy and navigating difficult topics. So it's
not that if you have trouble in these areas you
should just you know, break up. That's that's a mark
of of any couple really is to struggle on some
of these critical issues. But if UM you find no
(27:20):
way through even with UM uh professional help or deep
support from family or friends or pastors or um you know,
other areas of support and you can't find your way
through UM, it's it's important to do that that deep
reflection whether or not the relationship is serving you. So
we saw with Chris and Crystal, she moved on real quick, UM,
(27:43):
like really quick. Is there such thing as moving on
too soon? I Mean, it's such a tough one. I
I don't think, UM, you know, one size fits all
and UM we I'm sure everyone I'm in your audience
knows someone who's moved down too quickly and it didn't
serve them. And I'm sure everyone in the audience knows
(28:03):
someone who moved on quote too quickly and it did
serve them that it worked out. So I don't think
we can we can come up with sort of one
approach UM that makes the most sense. But to the
extent that UM, one needs to self reflect on what
didn't work in a relationship and how UM their own
contribution to the dynamics that were dysfunctional, UM, how it
(28:30):
showed up, how it emerged, how they managed it, where
it comes from. Those sorts of self evaluations and analysis
are critical not just to be in a relationship, but
critical to one one's own personal sort of sense of
groundedness and happiness. So I think post a relationship, it's
a good time to do a deeper dive into some
(28:51):
of those issues. But how we move through the world,
how we move through the relationship. I would always recommend UM,
to the extent possible, take time to to have a
post relationship like UM analysis you know, to understand what
worked and what didn't work, what we want moving forward,
what we don't UM. But sometimes timing um is a
(29:13):
funny thing, and someone shows up in our life UM
at a time that arguably is an ideal, But somehow
we can find a way to to merge. So UM,
I'm saying two things that could be considered conflictual. But
in the in the world of love, it it can be. Um.
It's not always linear. Mm hmm. It's a It's such
(29:35):
a great note for me that I'm writing down here
is the self awareness, the analysis, taking time afterwards to
be honest with yourself and be honest with the situation
and learn from it. Like I mean, how great a
teacher than pain? And it's uh, there's obviously a lot
of couples going through a lot of painful things right now,
and uh learning from that feel special. So you know,
(29:57):
to kind of close here, um, just because we're on
the topic. Oftentimes, Uh, you know, the breakup brings people
into a place of anxiety or or depression or there's
a lot of trauma involved. How do you how are
we to be good friends? And then how do we
(30:19):
also notice the signs of those things after a breakup. Yeah,
I mean, I think people sometimes fear that mentioning sadness
or asking about someone's grieving period will somehow make the
(30:40):
grieving worse or bring up something uncomfortable that the person
wasn't UM currently thinking of. But that's not really how
it goes people, UH sort of. Studies show UM areas
in arenas around this that UM when people bring up
feelings that are suppressed or already inside of us at
a make the feeling worse. It in fact helps it
(31:02):
to come up and out of us, rather than living
inside of us and becoming UM toxic or creating symptoms,
you know, like anxiety or depression or isolation. So all
of this to say that asking you know, how how
are you doing, or noticing you still seem really sad,
you really seem like you're struggling, how can I help?
And if you notice that someone's really struggling, UM, you
(31:25):
know that symptoms are impeding daily functioning that you help
guide them to UM the notion of UM outside professional interventions.
As you said, the aftermath of a of a breakup
can be really traumatic and cause a lot of brief
and depression anxiety. UM sort of uh, an interruption of
(31:45):
oneself concepts, and those can be really big critical things
and so sometimes a friend and familiar support is enough
and sometimes outside UH support is required. So I would
say like acknowledging and noticing out loud and not avoiding
the dis comfort of that well as always, Dr gold
Shirt's so great to have you on. Thank you once
(32:06):
again for coming and talking to us about some tough topics. UH.
This really helps summarize and put everything that we've talked
about before into a helpful place. DOCKR Gould Scher, thank you,
thank you. That'sua. Thanks for having me. Guys by. Okay, well,
weird episode because you know, it feels weird for us
to talk about people's breakups, but you know, this is
(32:31):
sort of like a huge headline, and that's what we
do here on the Almost As podcast. We have to
talk about huge headlines and Bachelor Nation. So our hearts
go out to Claren Dale. Um. Oh, it's sad, it's
really sad. Um, but we hope the best for them.
And until next week we have better news and we
(32:53):
try to find Matt James a wife. I've been actually
and I've been been. We'll talk to you later. Guy
followed the Bennon Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on iHeart
Radio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. M
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Ben Higgins
Ashley Iaconetti
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