December 5, 2024 • 35 mins
Bozoma Saint John is an author, entrepreneur and marketing executive who’s represented some of America’s most recognizable brands. Now, she’s starting a new chapter as the newest member of “The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.” She dishes about her decision to join the franchise, her incredible career, and why trusting your intuition is the key to success.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello Sunshine, Hey fam Today, on the bright Side, we're
sitting down with the newest member of the Real Housewives
of Beverly Hills, Bozima Saint John. She's walking us through
the power moves that earned her the title of Forbes
Number one most Influential Chief Marketing Officer. Plus she's revealing
why she said yes to housewives, how she's navigating life
in front of the camera, and why she's more unapologetic
(00:26):
than ever.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Treats your intuition.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
She's your best friend, the one who's going to never
see her you wrong, who has your best interests at heart,
and who's always going to take care of you.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The more you do that, the more successful you will be.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
It's Thursday, December fifth.
Speaker 5 (00:40):
I'm Simone Boyce, I'm Danielle Robe and this is The
bright Side from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we
come together to share women's stories, to laugh, learn and
brighten your day.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Danielle, we have a true rock start on the show today,
Bozama Saint John.
Speaker 5 (00:57):
Yes, she really is a powerhouse and pert. Particularly well
known in the marketing world. She's represented some of the
most recognizable brands in America. I'm talking Netflix, endeavor Uber,
Apple Music, Pepsi Co. Have you ever heard of these
little companies before? I mean huge, And she's behind some
of their most memorable marketing campaigns as well. At Pepsi,
(01:19):
she was part of the team that brought Beyonce's iconic
Super Bowl halftime performance to audiences around the world.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I mean, how many people can say that they were
an instrumental part in bringing Beyonce to the super Bowl stage.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
It's incredible. Yeah, if that learn enough.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
She's been inducted into the American Marketing Association Hall of Fame,
and there's a Harvard Business School case study written about
her career. She's crafted entire workshops outlining her signature badass
approach to business, all while living an urgent life. See
Bosma's life is the stuff dreams are made of when
you look at all the successes and awards and the
brand that she's built on being unapologetically badass. But she's
(01:58):
no stranger to deep, profound grief. Millions of readers have
found comfort in her raw, honest reflections on loss after
the deaths of her firstborn daughter and her husband Peter.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
She's really turned all of these experiences into powerful lessons
like you said, she's even crafting workshops that teach her
signature badass approach to business and life, all while living
with the sense of urgency and purpose. I feel like
today we're getting a mini masterclass inside the mind of
Bozoma's Saint John. And here's some really exciting news. After
(02:30):
conquering success behind the scenes in boardrooms in Hollywood, she's
stepping in front of the camera. This year, Bozama joined
the cast of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, and
I feel like she's already spiced things up. I'm excited
to continue watching and see what her storyline is. But
I think she's changed the energy of the whole franchise.
They've never had somebody in the boardroom the way she's been,
(02:54):
and so I'm excited to see the energy she brings from.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
The boardroom to Beverly Hills. They better watch out, Elle.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, well let's bring her in, Bozma, Saint John, welcome
to the bright side.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, and I feel bright and happy and amazing. So
thank you for having me.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
We're so happy you're here. Congrats on the Real Housewives
of Beverly Hills.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Thank you. It's so great. Look I got so much
to say.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Well, let's get into it, Bosma. I have been following
you four years, and I gotta say, every time you speak,
it's like I'm listening to a sermon. Whether the message
is about marketing, about pivoting, about self worth, grief, parenting,
it's always a bar. Hey, what made you decide to
join the Church of the Housewives.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I see what you did there. I see what you
did there, and it's clever. I like it.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Gosh, Well, I mean, should we say it's a congregation
or is it a cult?
Speaker 5 (03:46):
Both?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Okay, yes, it's a cultigration? Well yeah, did you just
make up a new term? We do it sometimes, we do.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Okay, we got bars from you too. I like that,
you know what?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
So here, that's the thing is that I, as you know,
have been in corporate America for a quarter of a century. Ooh,
bitch is old. Okay, I've been out here, I've been outside,
but you don't look it. We thank God for the blessings,
you know what I mean? We thank God. Those are
my hater's tears that morturized my skin. And I have
had a surprising career. I would say, not one that
(04:25):
many people would have predicted. I certainly would have predicted it,
and so in this season, I just looked around and said,
you know what, there are a number of things I
want to do, and being even more transparent about my life,
about the everyday's things that happen did not feel.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Scary to me when I was approached to do the show.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
You know, it didn't feel like, oh, this is such
a crazy departure, like why would I do it? Because
it's not like it was like a super strategic thing.
But the truth of the matter is that I'm simply
living a very urgent life which is very intentional based
on my desires and wants it needs. And so I
don't know that I could say that like, if this
(05:09):
opportunity to come five years.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Ago, I would have done it. Life was different.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Then why do you think that is because I had
different objectives? Let me be very specific. Five years ago,
where was I? That was what twenty nineteen. I was
at Endeavor, So as a chief marketing officer Endeavor, which
oversees WME, the UFC New York Fashion Week, Miss Universe
above conglomerate, and I was doing really exciting things there
(05:36):
that I felt was taking up all of my time.
My daughter was also ten. You know, it's just a
different life. And so again I think that, and maybe
in five years from now, if I had been approached,
I would mean in a different place, so I'd be like, oh,
I'm too busy.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
There's too many things going on. I don't think I
have time.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
Well, when you say you're following your desire, I'm curious
what that is now because we know you as CMO
of Uber, of Netflix, I mean, crazy resume, the hugest
companies in the world. But reality TV is a different story.
You're still selling an idea. But what is the desire now?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
The desire is to be more seen for the fullness
of who I am. I mean, people see me and
they think they know me, you know, but they know
a slice. They know me as a corporate baddy who
drops bars.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
You know who.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
And even in my personal life people think they know
me because I talk about my past a lot. You
don't know anything about right now. You don't know who
I'm dating, you don't know if I can cook. You
have an idea about the conversation I have with my kid.
So it's hard for me to truly articulate.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Like, why did you do this? I did it for
a lot of reasons and no reason at all.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
That's the thing you don't have to Your answer is
your answer. Your answer is a complete sentence like it
was an easy yes for you. Yeah, for whatever reason,
it just like it was in alignment with where you
are right now.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
But this I'm telling you is that every decision I
have made about my career has been an easy yes.
And it's an easy yes because I've listened to my intuition.
I've not had to go in and check in with
and sometimes people call like your mentors and whatever, like
a border directors.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I don't check in with those people.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
I don't have that.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
That's actually the downfall.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Okay, that's what actually will get you in trouble, lead
you to failure, lead you to being stuck in the middle.
You go asking too many people for their opinions about
your own life, and you should know better. And so
why you out here asking people what they think you
should do? Why do you ask you people what they
think you should wear? Why are you ask them what
do you think you should have for lunch?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Make those decisions yourself.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
The more you trust your intuition, I swear, the better
you'll be And the more successful you'll be. And so
for me, it's like every career decision, every career pivot,
all those things I've made because I've decided I just
wanted to and I went.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
I'm a proclaimed Housewives fanatic fanatic. I don't know. I
watch every single season.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yes, I do, every single franchise.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
Yeah. The only one I didn't watch was Dallas, and
that was like, it only lasted two seasons. It wasn't
very good. So I watched last night. I know you're
going to add so much to this show. You and
Derwit sort of have like an immediate love fest. I'm
going I'm curious to see where that goes, and I
have some curiosity. We're gonna do some Real Housewives superlatives.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Okay, oh okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 5 (08:24):
Okay, before starting, who were you most excited to me?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Oh, Kathy Hilton.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Who were you most nervous to meet face to face?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Kind of make me nervous?
Speaker 5 (08:34):
I love that answer. Okay. Who's the life of the party.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Life of the party, Jennifer Tilly?
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Who's the potstar?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
The pot star? Sutton?
Speaker 5 (08:47):
Who has the best style? Besides you?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Oh, besides me, Erica Jane. We're sure, she's ok one
who gave me a run for my money and I
and she's gonna have to run far.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
Who gives off main character energy.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Aside for myself? Right?
Speaker 5 (09:04):
Yeah, obviously? Actually I think you got to give you
that one.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Yeah, I feel like I'm the main character. Like, how
do they come in like thirty seconds to take over?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I mean, seriously, it's for real.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Okay, I'm gonna be shady for one second and then
I'm gonna pull it back. Who do you think benefits
most from an edit?
Speaker 4 (09:19):
An edit?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
See?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Now, this is shady. This is shady because you know
it is DT. Okay, but let me but let me
just let me explain myself. Okay, it's only because I
think she loves to give context. But sometimes it's like, girl,
you just need to tell me exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
What you're saying. That's it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (09:37):
The rest?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yes, but you know, I'm not mad at her for
wanting to give context. I love it. But I'm glad
that you're a fan though. That's so great.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
Oh, such a fan. I'm so happy you're on the show.
You're really stepping into a world that thrives on big drama.
And even though you are a dramatic person in a
beautiful theatrical way, but yeah, I don't really like see
you as being into the nitty gritty of like talking
behind people's backs.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Now, no, no, no, If I talk behind your back,
it's because you deserved it. And I've probably said it's
your face already, you know what I mean. But to
that point, it's like the drama is really real, and
I don't know that I knew that before, you know,
I didn't think that, like, oh everything has manufactured, Like
I wasn't one of those people who's like conspiracy theorists, like,
oh my gosh, the producers must like set you up,
Like I didn't think that. But I have to admit
(10:26):
that I was one of those people who judge people
when they fall in love on TV after three weeks,
you know what I mean, and just like, okay, now,
how you just decided to marry this person.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I was definitely judging. Okay, But now I understand. I
think I would have married somebody on this damn show,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Because the thing is it like you're in such intense
conversations all of the time. We go to lunch or
go to somebody's house and we are boomed in I'm
telling you about the things that are going on with my kid,
or I'm telling you the thing that's going on with
the ferst time I'm dating, or oh my god, you're
going through a divorce, girl, let me help you get
an attorney. My god, when do we do that in
(11:03):
normal friendships? Everyday friendship And sometimes you know, you want
to go to brunch with your girlfriend. You just want
to get drunk, you know what I mean, You just
want to sip some champagne and then go home tipsy.
But in this case, it's like we sit down and yes,
we still drink in some champagne, but we're also talking
about very deep things. And so I was really surprised
by the depth of relationships that, like, I really care
(11:26):
about these women in a way that has surprised me.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
What happens when the cameras stop, really did anything about that?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Surprise you? You mean during the season life? When yeah,
during this taping. I'll just speak for myself right as
a fan before I joined, which was that I thought
that they can't possibly.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Be really real friends, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (11:47):
But yeah, you end up like your friends and so
the same thing that happens anytime.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
It's like if Erica came over to my house and
we were talking about something deep and personal, if she cried,
if I cried, if we got mad, whatever, I'm calling
her tomorrow, you know, or I'm texting her later.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I'd be like, girl, you all right, you know, I'm
just checking in on you. How you doing?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Or when things were popping off with Kyle to you
best believe I was texting her like, hey, do you
see what your man did?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Like, So, it's it's not just for the camera all
the time. I just think that the cameras get lucky.
Of course, the situation is that, okay, look, the two
of you are going to go talk or have lunch
or whatever, and so cameras are there, but I think
that the conversations are happening anyway.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
I read an article that said that you were surprised
that Housewives is run like a boardroom.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I'm surprised it behaves like a boardroom.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
Okay, so tell me what you mean.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
So here's the thing. Okay, another big, big surprise. I
felt like, you know what, this is gonna be casual
because these are women, they're friends, they have this agreements, yes,
but you can get over it, right, It's not really
a big deal. But boardrooms are more intense than that,
(13:11):
meaning that the conflicts are there, the conflict resolution.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Sometimes does not exist.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
The politics of who sides with who and who's got
who's back is there in boardrooms. It's like, look, you
might find yourself cut in a boardroom. All of those
dynamics exist, and so I feel like the last twenty
five years has prepared me for this room. You know
(13:42):
that this is not that different. There's this conflict of
miscommunication that's causing a tumult, and therefore there's no solution
being made. Hella, I've dealt with that in so many instances. Okay,
don't get me talking about the tech boys in Silicon
Valley and the kind of conflict I have with them.
So these ladies, I was like, oh, okay, I understand this.
(14:03):
I understand this room. I can deal with these women.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
That makes sense.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Don't go away.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
We've got to take a quick break, but we'll be
right back with Bozima Saint John.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
And we're back with Bozima Saint John.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Well, I want to talk about the last twenty five
years before Housewives, Forbes named you the number one most
influential CMO number one.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Yes, yes, number.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
One, number one baby crown holder number Oh no. I
think about how much has changed since you launched your career.
I think about the fact that many of us never
planned to be marketers, but now, thanks to social media,
it feels like we're all mini marketers in our own right.
So I'm coming to you, coming to the expert here.
What is your trademark marketing philosophy? Give us the trade secrets? Ooh,
(15:03):
the trade secrets.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Well, here's the thing is that even when I started
my career, the delineation between like what a marketer did
and didn't do was very very clear, very stark. Marketers
were the mathematicians. They're the ones who are dealing with
the data. They are cutting and slicing consumer behavior and
then saying, oh, they like green, so put the product
(15:28):
in green. Or they like to get something to drink
at noon between noon and two, so our messages are
going to go between noon and two. When I started,
you had to be an expert at that in order
to be successful as a marketer. What I really liked
was pop culture, the kind of like put your finger
to the sky and feel the wind and be like, oh,
(15:49):
people are moving that way. Okay, nobody likes drink anymore,
all right?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Why you know?
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Like answering the larger cultural question, which then would allow
me to play the messaging in the right stream of
consciousness for you to believe that you like the same
thing I like, or you like the thing I'm telling
you like. I feel like the success I've seen has
only been because I was ahead of the curve.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Is it?
Speaker 5 (16:14):
Like?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
I believed that culture should drive the message before a
lot of people believe that as markers.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
I feel like black women are uniquely positioned to approach
marketing in the way that you're talking about, because black
women are the forebears of culture, like we have defined
culture for decades.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Yes, And also because we have to pay attention to
what is happening. I think there's like this beautiful diagram
for us right where it's just like, as women, we
often have to pay attention to everything that's going on
around us in order to stay safe, you know, and
I mean save from a physical standpoint, from an emotional standpoint,
(16:53):
all the things, right, we're paying attention When people say
that we have intuition better than men. It is true biological.
So we have that. Then you add women of color
who lord. Then you have black women at the center,
who to some degree are the most challenged. And I
(17:14):
don't mean that they have challenges, I mean culture challenges them.
So they are always battling to find the right word,
to find the right place, to find the right thing
to do, the right way to be, and so they
are constantly creating messages so that the world treats them
a certain woman. So imagine if the boardrooms were fair
(17:40):
places where more women of color, more black women could
have leadership, I think we'd have a very different world.
Speaker 5 (17:49):
From everything I've heard you say publicly, it seems like
you've really efforted that at every place you've been too.
And yes, not without challenge, girl, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Mostly with a lot of challenge, because I mean, look,
I know that there are all these cash phrases. People
always just like, oh, be unapologetic, and I roll my
eyes because I'm like, no, if you were really unapologetic,
you really would walk in and say the thing that's
on your mind and say it with your chest without
being afraid that somebody's gonna punish you. Because that's what's
(18:21):
gonna happens. You're gonna get punished for the thing that
you said that goes against the grain in the room.
And you better have some metal inside of there that's
not gonna let your voice shake and not let you quiver. Because,
let me tell you, baby, I've been in plenty of
rooms where the people you think are championing you are
sitting there quiet and they come outside and they start
(18:43):
yapping their mouths. But I'm like, the real change happens
when you leave a place and your fingerprints are still
on there.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
Right, that unapologetic attitude is that from your mom?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yes, it's from my mom for sure, from both my parents, honestly,
but also from myself. I give them credit. I give
myself credit ye for being who I am.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
So you're an expert in sales. And no matter what
the product is you're selling or the person is that
you're selling, what you're really selling is a story. And
not everybody knows this unless they've read your book. But
you started your career with Spike Lee. You worked at
an advertising agency.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yes, that's right. A brilliant storyteller.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
One of the most brilliant of all time, and also
unapologetic in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
That part he says the thing yes with his whole chest.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
I'm curious what you learned about storytelling and selling a
story from him.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
You know what honesty's really simple is tell the truth
and tell your truth. I think it's very difficult to
sell a story that doesn't belong to you, because what
happens is that you end up guessing about how the
person would feel or what they would do in said situations.
I can't tell you how many times in leadership positions,
(20:03):
I looked around at my team and it's just like, Ooh,
we don't have enough of this type of person. And
I'm just talking about a raise and ethnicity. I'm talking
about socio phonomic I'm talking about diverse experiences.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I'm talking about sexuality. I'm talking about all the things.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
And this is why I'm a champion of diversity and inclusion,
not because I'm a DEI executive at all. I didn't
go to school for that, none of that. I'm a pragmatist,
you know what I mean. I'm practical. I'm like, Okay,
we need to tell a story to our consumer. I
have the experience of being a black woman, immigrant in
United Stations America who grew up in college France, Colorado.
(20:38):
I happen to be tall, I'm athletic, and I'm cute.
You know, it's a very specific experience, and so I
don't expect to be able to tell the story of everyone, right,
And so one of two things needs to happen.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
One.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I think it's very important for leaders to be empathetic.
And I'm not saying sympathetic pathetic that you're able to
put yourself into shoes that are not yours fully and holy,
without holding back and without judgment. And then you do
need to surround yourself with people who have different experiences
from you and listen to them. You know, they need
(21:15):
to actually contribute to the conversation, so not everybody can
be like you. It's like, I can't tell you how
many times I've stepped into leadership roles and had to
have that conversation with my team to say, Okay, I
know I wore sequence on Tuesday. Okay, but that doesn't
mean you have to in order for me to hear you,
to see you. Yo, you you can wear black all
(21:35):
day long if you want to. You can wear your
hair pulled back in a. butN okay. Just because I
have these tendrils coming down to the middle of my
back does not mean you have to do the same thing,
you know, But I feel like as leaders, you have
to do that in order to cultivate a culture where
people are allowed to say the things, to have an opinion,
and the work will be better, the environment will be better,
(21:58):
and you will be better.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Bosma, you wrote a book called The Urgent Life, and
you speak about living life urgently in your workshops. Yes,
I want that. I think we all want that. I
think everyone listening wants that. What is one thing that
we can all do this week to embody urgency in
our own lives?
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yes, oh, thank you since for this question. I said
this a little bit before, but I want to just
nail it for you for everybody listening, which is that
I cannot emphasize enough how much your intuition impacts the
urgency in your life, meaning that you have to pay
attention to what your spirit is telling you all of
(22:41):
the time. The way that you do that is by
listening to yourself. Now, I know that that's a big
type of word life, Oh, listen to your intuition, but
it is much much harder to execute. It gets to
be disciplined in it, and so yes, it means that
from the small things, you have to listen to yourself.
That's the only way it impacts the big things like
your brain and your body. In your spirit doesn't know
(23:01):
the difference between when you ask somebody their opinion about
what you should eat for lunch and when you ask
somebody their opinion about what kind of career move you
should make. Your spirit doesn't know the difference, and so
your intuition is going to get quieter and quiet on
quieter the more that you ask external inputs on what
is a very personal decision. And so what I am
imploring of you is to be disciplined about your intuition.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Treats your intuition.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
She's your best friend, the one who's going to never
see you wrong, who has your best interests at heart,
and who's always going to take care of you.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
The more you do that, the more successful you will be.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
I've actually started to do something like this because I
totally agree with you. I think we often neglect and
ignore our own desires as women in society. I have
started just vocalizing what I want and the phrase I
want is so powerful. So in my own head, I'll
just be like, I'm feeling something. You know, I'm feeling
an emotion come up? What does that mean? Does that mean?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (23:59):
That means I want community right now. I don't want
to be alone, so I'm gonna go find my friends.
Maybe I just want to zone out and doom scroll.
I want a doom scroll. There's power in actually vocalizing it. Yes,
that's correct, there is power in vocalizing it. I have
to warn you that sometimes you're not gonna get the
thing that you want, but only because there's something greater
(24:22):
coming for you, you know, and you actually have to
believe that and be disciplined in that as well, which
is like, hey, look, I want this thing that I
didn't get it. Okay, I could be sad and upset
about it, but with the belief system that something that
I did not know that was meant for me, that
is better for me, is actually coming. And if you
believe that, then you will fall into the right track.
(24:42):
For this intuition that I believe is just your destiny
waiting to be revealed to you.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
It's the idea of this or something better.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Always, yes, exactly, always, always and that's also why I
have such a positive outlook on life, because look, I've
suffered enough grief in my life to I don't think
anybody would be surprised if I was like, Hey, look,
I'm gonna just crawl into a cave right now and
never come back out. I don't think anybody people would
be like, yep, understood, that's no problem. But I have
a pausitive out look on life because really, I do
(25:11):
believe that there is greater in the world, and there's
greater in my experience as a human that even though
terrible things happen to me and have happened to me,
that I am able to get to the next place
because I recognize that this experience is all laddering up
(25:33):
to something really enormously wonderful for me. Maybe it's that
I'm an optimist, but I don't think that our experiences,
grief or otherwise, should keep us from being optimistic about life.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
Okay, Bose, we have to talk about your new hair
care and wigline, eve By Bows.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
I started the company because it's like, why why do
we not have good wigs, especially as black women and
women of color, Because eighty percent of the consumer base
is us, and we just have been suffering this whole time,
being offered products that aren't with us in mind. And
not only that, it's insulting. You go to shop for
these things online and you're placed with these images that
(26:16):
are like these ugly ass a mannequins, and then you
get the product and it's a terrible plastic bag. It's
like the disrespect of it all, Just like, I'm spending
so much money. Why why am I not in the
center of the conversation, and why am I being treated
like this?
Speaker 2 (26:29):
You know?
Speaker 3 (26:29):
And so when I thought about what to do next,
I don't want a company that would serve all my
needs with me in the center of it, think about
the things I want. And so I got up and
went to Asia, went to go discover, Wow, why it
is that we're not serviced? And I didn't get a
good answer, Like the answer was so simple that I
(26:51):
was like, oh, shoot, you know what, I think. I'm
gonna start my own company. I don't want I don't
want a white label. I don't want to put my
name on somebody else's brand. I'm gonna start my own.
So I built a factory.
Speaker 5 (27:02):
You built a factory.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
I built a factory in Ghana, that's correct, So I
source the raw goods from Asia, so every product has
created in Ghana. Then the product is processed with with
wet goods. Black hair care that I also made. That
I also formulated with the partner of this amazing black
(27:24):
woman chemist.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
She's worked for all of the big companies.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
And it is shipped to Dallas, which is where my
fulfillment company is, and then you go online.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
And you purchase and then it ships all around the world.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
So the hair comes to you in a bonnet, you
take it out of the bonnet, you put the bot
on your head.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
And go to bed.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
The fabric I made myself partnered with a textile company,
the oldest textile company in Ghana. The pattern is luxury,
so you know, it's like you know when you see
the repeated pattern on Gucci or Louis or any of
these other companies. So I took the E off of
my logo. You know, we made the pattern and it
actually makes a dincer symbol and the dinner symbols are
(28:02):
old symbols and Ghana they represent tenements of like culture
and so the one that is created out of my
pattern is meaning mother Earth, like basically like the weight
of the earth.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
So I've made bonds with the fabric I made and
shipping it everywhere.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
You like to really just start small, don't you? Huh?
Just just bite sized.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I just feel like why not? You know, if you're
gonna do it, do it big. You know, are saying,
do it big.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
What's been the biggest gift of this so far? Because
when you see someone where or use your product, it's
just magical.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Oh, it's so wonderful.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I think the biggest gift is just to know that,
like you don't have to guess about the intention in
which the product that you have purchased was made.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
You know.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I think sometimes you purchase something and you don't know,
you know, if it's good for you, You don't know
if they lie in to you, You don't know anything.
I'm like, I made this, these two hands made the
product that you have. The love in my heart was
poured into this every step of the way. When I
tell you that, like the elastic that was used inside
(29:12):
the bonus, I tested it on my own head before
I ever made it. The dozens of times that I
went to Asia and talked to people and felt hair
and talk to about why the laces like this? Why
can't it be brown? The amount of times I use
the wet good of products, the hair care and shampooed
and watched the condition had enough slip on it?
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Would it last? Would it tangle?
Speaker 5 (29:36):
Girl?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
I put love in this, and so I feel like
when I see somebody rocking one of my products, I'm like,
that's just a hug from me.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
That's just me telling you I love you.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Foes, You're the best.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Thank you so much, God, thank you, thank you, thank
you have a great one.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Bozma Saint John is a marketing executive, entrepreneur and the
author of the memoir The Urgent Life. You can watch
her now on the new season of the Real Housewives
of Beverly Hills Tuesdays on Bravo and the following day
on Peacock.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
We have to take another short break, but we'll be
back in just a minute.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Don't go anywhere, and we're back, Okay, Danielle. We are
mere weeks away from the holidays. Have you nailed down
your holiday plans yet? For like, let's say, New Year's
what are you doing? Oh?
Speaker 5 (30:36):
I don't know. New Year stresses me out some own
it feels like so much pressure. How about you? Are
you ready for your trip back east? And more importantly,
are you ready to officially host on Airbnb and have
another family in your house for a week?
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (30:50):
On both accounts. Besties. You know this has been a
long time coming. We've talked about it on the show before. Yes,
I am actually hosting guests at my home through Airbnb.
But you know, I lived in New York for several
years and it is like a second home for me.
So we try to go back to the East Coast
as often as possible, especially when it feels all magical
this time of year. So my family and I are
headed to the city and then driving upstate for some
(31:11):
Christmas ey things, And while we're away, we are going
to be hosting our space on Airbnb. And it's kind
of perfect because this time of year, you know, it's
so expensive to travel, and the cash ro making is
actually going to help cover the cost of our trip.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Also, La is pretty magical this time of year, right, Danielle, Hmm,
I've actually never been in LA for the holidays. I
think I'm going to be here for the first time
this year. Well, there's so much hype surrounding the snow
and the Northeast and the Midwest around the holidays, and
it is beautiful, don't get me wrong. But a nice, warm, breezy,
(31:45):
seventy two degree La Christmas is also pretty great too.
Speaker 5 (31:48):
I just love a slower pace wherever you are spending
your holidays. I just hope you have a slower pace.
But you are such an La girly. So what are
your go to rex for people traveling to LA for
the first time.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Well, it's funny you asked, because I actually just wrote
out a bunch of recommendations in this guest guide that
I'm leaving for the families who are going to be
staying at our place.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
I would say a few of the highlights are.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Griffith Park, It's kind of like our central park here
in southern California. Wine Country in Santa Barbara is spectacular,
Joshua Tree for the desert vibes. We've got theme parks, Disneyland,
six Flags, Universal Studios, and of course Malibu.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
What would you add to the list.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
Ooh, Malibu's my absolute favorite. I love the Malibu Country
mart I usually spend my birthday there. I get breakfast
there in the morning. Okay, adding maybe a hike on
Runyon Canyon if you want to see all the Instagram
girlies take photos of themselves hiking, I would add I'm
a restaurant girl, so I would add a few West
(32:47):
Hollywood maybe like LA hotspots like Craigs, you'll definitely have
a celeb siting.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
I did include some restaurants in there, so I should
add Craigs. I love what you're doing with this guest guide.
It's so nice of you. What else are you doing
to prepare? Well, we have a fire pit outside, so
we're planning to leave a cute little s'mores kit for
the guests to use. And then I've been incorporating some
other little touches that I've seen in other airbnbs that
I've loved. So we're putting coffee cups, mugs, and a
(33:16):
French press in the bedroom so you can have coffee
in bed. We're gonna have the pool toys set out
all the heater instructions so you can take a dip
in the winter.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Well, I feel like you've been hyping up your Airbnb
hosting moment for months and it is finally here. I'm
very excited for you.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
You know what's funny, A lot of people ask me,
are you really doing it? Are you really hosting your
home on Airbnb? And I'm like, yes, I'm actually doing it.
The whole process has actually been less intimidating than I thought.
I mean, it's been super user friendly. Airbnb has a
new feature called co hosting, So I was able to
connect with a local Airbnb host who's way more experience
with this than I am, and she helped me get
(33:54):
set up with my listing. And they also have this
great support team that's super responsive. They sent out a photographer,
got the photos all done, They have checklists for hosts
to help you get ready, and then also the platform
just makes it really easy to communicate with your guests.
I've been using the app on my phone and it's
way easier and straightforward.
Speaker 5 (34:12):
Well, I cannot wait to hear about your experience after
all of this, and it's making me think about a
girl's trip Airbnb in Chicago for Saint Patrick's Day.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
What do you think I have never been to Chicago
during Saint Patrick's Day?
Speaker 4 (34:25):
Is it a site to see?
Speaker 1 (34:26):
I'm down the river is green? Simone, Oh, I got
to see this. Your home might be worth more than
you think. Find out how much at airbnb dot com
slash host.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're popping off with
New York Times best selling author, comedian, and screenwriter Danny Pellegrino.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect
with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram
and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and
feel free to tag us at Simone Boyce and at
Danielle Robe.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.
Hello Sunshine, Hey fam Today, on the bright Side, we're
sitting down with the newest member of the Real Housewives
of Beverly Hills, Bozima Saint John. She's walking us through
the power moves that earned her the title of Forbes
Number one most Influential Chief Marketing Officer. Plus she's revealing
why she said yes to housewives, how she's navigating life
in front of the camera, and why she's more unapologetic
(00:26):
than ever.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Treats your intuition.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
She's your best friend, the one who's going to never
see her you wrong, who has your best interests at heart,
and who's always going to take care of you.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The more you do that, the more successful you will be.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
It's Thursday, December fifth.
Speaker 5 (00:40):
I'm Simone Boyce, I'm Danielle Robe and this is The
bright Side from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we
come together to share women's stories, to laugh, learn and
brighten your day.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Danielle, we have a true rock start on the show today,
Bozama Saint John.
Speaker 5 (00:57):
Yes, she really is a powerhouse and pert. Particularly well
known in the marketing world. She's represented some of the
most recognizable brands in America. I'm talking Netflix, endeavor Uber,
Apple Music, Pepsi Co. Have you ever heard of these
little companies before? I mean huge, And she's behind some
of their most memorable marketing campaigns as well. At Pepsi,
(01:19):
she was part of the team that brought Beyonce's iconic
Super Bowl halftime performance to audiences around the world.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I mean, how many people can say that they were
an instrumental part in bringing Beyonce to the super Bowl stage.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
It's incredible. Yeah, if that learn enough.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
She's been inducted into the American Marketing Association Hall of Fame,
and there's a Harvard Business School case study written about
her career. She's crafted entire workshops outlining her signature badass
approach to business, all while living an urgent life. See
Bosma's life is the stuff dreams are made of when
you look at all the successes and awards and the
brand that she's built on being unapologetically badass. But she's
(01:58):
no stranger to deep, profound grief. Millions of readers have
found comfort in her raw, honest reflections on loss after
the deaths of her firstborn daughter and her husband Peter.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
She's really turned all of these experiences into powerful lessons
like you said, she's even crafting workshops that teach her
signature badass approach to business and life, all while living
with the sense of urgency and purpose. I feel like
today we're getting a mini masterclass inside the mind of
Bozoma's Saint John. And here's some really exciting news. After
(02:30):
conquering success behind the scenes in boardrooms in Hollywood, she's
stepping in front of the camera. This year, Bozama joined
the cast of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, and
I feel like she's already spiced things up. I'm excited
to continue watching and see what her storyline is. But
I think she's changed the energy of the whole franchise.
They've never had somebody in the boardroom the way she's been,
(02:54):
and so I'm excited to see the energy she brings from.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
The boardroom to Beverly Hills. They better watch out, Elle.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, well let's bring her in, Bozma, Saint John, welcome
to the bright side.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, and I feel bright and happy and amazing. So
thank you for having me.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
We're so happy you're here. Congrats on the Real Housewives
of Beverly Hills.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Thank you. It's so great. Look I got so much
to say.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Well, let's get into it, Bosma. I have been following
you four years, and I gotta say, every time you speak,
it's like I'm listening to a sermon. Whether the message
is about marketing, about pivoting, about self worth, grief, parenting,
it's always a bar. Hey, what made you decide to
join the Church of the Housewives.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I see what you did there. I see what you
did there, and it's clever. I like it.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Gosh, Well, I mean, should we say it's a congregation
or is it a cult?
Speaker 5 (03:46):
Both?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Okay, yes, it's a cultigration? Well yeah, did you just
make up a new term? We do it sometimes, we do.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Okay, we got bars from you too. I like that,
you know what?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
So here, that's the thing is that I, as you know,
have been in corporate America for a quarter of a century. Ooh,
bitch is old. Okay, I've been out here, I've been outside,
but you don't look it. We thank God for the blessings,
you know what I mean? We thank God. Those are
my hater's tears that morturized my skin. And I have
had a surprising career. I would say, not one that
(04:25):
many people would have predicted. I certainly would have predicted it,
and so in this season, I just looked around and said,
you know what, there are a number of things I
want to do, and being even more transparent about my life,
about the everyday's things that happen did not feel.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Scary to me when I was approached to do the show.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
You know, it didn't feel like, oh, this is such
a crazy departure, like why would I do it? Because
it's not like it was like a super strategic thing.
But the truth of the matter is that I'm simply
living a very urgent life which is very intentional based
on my desires and wants it needs. And so I
don't know that I could say that like, if this
(05:09):
opportunity to come five years.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Ago, I would have done it. Life was different.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Then why do you think that is because I had
different objectives? Let me be very specific. Five years ago,
where was I? That was what twenty nineteen. I was
at Endeavor, So as a chief marketing officer Endeavor, which
oversees WME, the UFC New York Fashion Week, Miss Universe
above conglomerate, and I was doing really exciting things there
(05:36):
that I felt was taking up all of my time.
My daughter was also ten. You know, it's just a
different life. And so again I think that, and maybe
in five years from now, if I had been approached,
I would mean in a different place, so I'd be like, oh,
I'm too busy.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
There's too many things going on. I don't think I
have time.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
Well, when you say you're following your desire, I'm curious
what that is now because we know you as CMO
of Uber, of Netflix, I mean, crazy resume, the hugest
companies in the world. But reality TV is a different story.
You're still selling an idea. But what is the desire now?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
The desire is to be more seen for the fullness
of who I am. I mean, people see me and
they think they know me, you know, but they know
a slice. They know me as a corporate baddy who
drops bars.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
You know who.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
And even in my personal life people think they know
me because I talk about my past a lot. You
don't know anything about right now. You don't know who
I'm dating, you don't know if I can cook. You
have an idea about the conversation I have with my kid.
So it's hard for me to truly articulate.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Like, why did you do this? I did it for
a lot of reasons and no reason at all.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
That's the thing you don't have to Your answer is
your answer. Your answer is a complete sentence like it
was an easy yes for you. Yeah, for whatever reason,
it just like it was in alignment with where you
are right now.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
But this I'm telling you is that every decision I
have made about my career has been an easy yes.
And it's an easy yes because I've listened to my intuition.
I've not had to go in and check in with
and sometimes people call like your mentors and whatever, like
a border directors.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I don't check in with those people.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
I don't have that.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
That's actually the downfall.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Okay, that's what actually will get you in trouble, lead
you to failure, lead you to being stuck in the middle.
You go asking too many people for their opinions about
your own life, and you should know better. And so
why you out here asking people what they think you
should do? Why do you ask you people what they
think you should wear? Why are you ask them what
do you think you should have for lunch?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Make those decisions yourself.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
The more you trust your intuition, I swear, the better
you'll be And the more successful you'll be. And so
for me, it's like every career decision, every career pivot,
all those things I've made because I've decided I just
wanted to and I went.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
I'm a proclaimed Housewives fanatic fanatic. I don't know. I
watch every single season.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yes, I do, every single franchise.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
Yeah. The only one I didn't watch was Dallas, and
that was like, it only lasted two seasons. It wasn't
very good. So I watched last night. I know you're
going to add so much to this show. You and
Derwit sort of have like an immediate love fest. I'm
going I'm curious to see where that goes, and I
have some curiosity. We're gonna do some Real Housewives superlatives.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Okay, oh okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 5 (08:24):
Okay, before starting, who were you most excited to me?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Oh, Kathy Hilton.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Who were you most nervous to meet face to face?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Kind of make me nervous?
Speaker 5 (08:34):
I love that answer. Okay. Who's the life of the party.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Life of the party, Jennifer Tilly?
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Who's the potstar?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
The pot star? Sutton?
Speaker 5 (08:47):
Who has the best style? Besides you?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Oh, besides me, Erica Jane. We're sure, she's ok one
who gave me a run for my money and I
and she's gonna have to run far.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
Who gives off main character energy.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Aside for myself? Right?
Speaker 5 (09:04):
Yeah, obviously? Actually I think you got to give you
that one.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Yeah, I feel like I'm the main character. Like, how
do they come in like thirty seconds to take over?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I mean, seriously, it's for real.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Okay, I'm gonna be shady for one second and then
I'm gonna pull it back. Who do you think benefits
most from an edit?
Speaker 4 (09:19):
An edit?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
See?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Now, this is shady. This is shady because you know
it is DT. Okay, but let me but let me
just let me explain myself. Okay, it's only because I
think she loves to give context. But sometimes it's like, girl,
you just need to tell me exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
What you're saying. That's it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (09:37):
The rest?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yes, but you know, I'm not mad at her for
wanting to give context. I love it. But I'm glad
that you're a fan though. That's so great.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
Oh, such a fan. I'm so happy you're on the show.
You're really stepping into a world that thrives on big drama.
And even though you are a dramatic person in a
beautiful theatrical way, but yeah, I don't really like see
you as being into the nitty gritty of like talking
behind people's backs.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Now, no, no, no, If I talk behind your back,
it's because you deserved it. And I've probably said it's
your face already, you know what I mean. But to
that point, it's like the drama is really real, and
I don't know that I knew that before, you know,
I didn't think that, like, oh everything has manufactured, Like
I wasn't one of those people who's like conspiracy theorists, like,
oh my gosh, the producers must like set you up,
Like I didn't think that. But I have to admit
(10:26):
that I was one of those people who judge people
when they fall in love on TV after three weeks,
you know what I mean, and just like, okay, now,
how you just decided to marry this person.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I was definitely judging. Okay, But now I understand. I
think I would have married somebody on this damn show,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Because the thing is it like you're in such intense
conversations all of the time. We go to lunch or
go to somebody's house and we are boomed in I'm
telling you about the things that are going on with my kid,
or I'm telling you the thing that's going on with
the ferst time I'm dating, or oh my god, you're
going through a divorce, girl, let me help you get
an attorney. My god, when do we do that in
(11:03):
normal friendships? Everyday friendship And sometimes you know, you want
to go to brunch with your girlfriend. You just want
to get drunk, you know what I mean, You just
want to sip some champagne and then go home tipsy.
But in this case, it's like we sit down and yes,
we still drink in some champagne, but we're also talking
about very deep things. And so I was really surprised
by the depth of relationships that, like, I really care
(11:26):
about these women in a way that has surprised me.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
What happens when the cameras stop, really did anything about that?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Surprise you? You mean during the season life? When yeah,
during this taping. I'll just speak for myself right as
a fan before I joined, which was that I thought
that they can't possibly.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Be really real friends, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (11:47):
But yeah, you end up like your friends and so
the same thing that happens anytime.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
It's like if Erica came over to my house and
we were talking about something deep and personal, if she cried,
if I cried, if we got mad, whatever, I'm calling
her tomorrow, you know, or I'm texting her later.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I'd be like, girl, you all right, you know, I'm
just checking in on you. How you doing?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Or when things were popping off with Kyle to you
best believe I was texting her like, hey, do you
see what your man did?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Like, So, it's it's not just for the camera all
the time. I just think that the cameras get lucky.
Of course, the situation is that, okay, look, the two
of you are going to go talk or have lunch
or whatever, and so cameras are there, but I think
that the conversations are happening anyway.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
I read an article that said that you were surprised
that Housewives is run like a boardroom.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I'm surprised it behaves like a boardroom.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
Okay, so tell me what you mean.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
So here's the thing. Okay, another big, big surprise. I
felt like, you know what, this is gonna be casual
because these are women, they're friends, they have this agreements, yes,
but you can get over it, right, It's not really
a big deal. But boardrooms are more intense than that,
(13:11):
meaning that the conflicts are there, the conflict resolution.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Sometimes does not exist.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
The politics of who sides with who and who's got
who's back is there in boardrooms. It's like, look, you
might find yourself cut in a boardroom. All of those
dynamics exist, and so I feel like the last twenty
five years has prepared me for this room. You know
(13:42):
that this is not that different. There's this conflict of
miscommunication that's causing a tumult, and therefore there's no solution
being made. Hella, I've dealt with that in so many instances. Okay,
don't get me talking about the tech boys in Silicon
Valley and the kind of conflict I have with them.
So these ladies, I was like, oh, okay, I understand this.
(14:03):
I understand this room. I can deal with these women.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
That makes sense.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Don't go away.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
We've got to take a quick break, but we'll be
right back with Bozima Saint John.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
And we're back with Bozima Saint John.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Well, I want to talk about the last twenty five
years before Housewives, Forbes named you the number one most
influential CMO number one.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Yes, yes, number.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
One, number one baby crown holder number Oh no. I
think about how much has changed since you launched your career.
I think about the fact that many of us never
planned to be marketers, but now, thanks to social media,
it feels like we're all mini marketers in our own right.
So I'm coming to you, coming to the expert here.
What is your trademark marketing philosophy? Give us the trade secrets? Ooh,
(15:03):
the trade secrets.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Well, here's the thing is that even when I started
my career, the delineation between like what a marketer did
and didn't do was very very clear, very stark. Marketers
were the mathematicians. They're the ones who are dealing with
the data. They are cutting and slicing consumer behavior and
then saying, oh, they like green, so put the product
(15:28):
in green. Or they like to get something to drink
at noon between noon and two, so our messages are
going to go between noon and two. When I started,
you had to be an expert at that in order
to be successful as a marketer. What I really liked
was pop culture, the kind of like put your finger
to the sky and feel the wind and be like, oh,
(15:49):
people are moving that way. Okay, nobody likes drink anymore,
all right?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Why you know?
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Like answering the larger cultural question, which then would allow
me to play the messaging in the right stream of
consciousness for you to believe that you like the same
thing I like, or you like the thing I'm telling
you like. I feel like the success I've seen has
only been because I was ahead of the curve.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Is it?
Speaker 5 (16:14):
Like?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
I believed that culture should drive the message before a
lot of people believe that as markers.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
I feel like black women are uniquely positioned to approach
marketing in the way that you're talking about, because black
women are the forebears of culture, like we have defined
culture for decades.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Yes, And also because we have to pay attention to
what is happening. I think there's like this beautiful diagram
for us right where it's just like, as women, we
often have to pay attention to everything that's going on
around us in order to stay safe, you know, and
I mean save from a physical standpoint, from an emotional standpoint,
(16:53):
all the things, right, we're paying attention When people say
that we have intuition better than men. It is true biological.
So we have that. Then you add women of color
who lord. Then you have black women at the center,
who to some degree are the most challenged. And I
(17:14):
don't mean that they have challenges, I mean culture challenges them.
So they are always battling to find the right word,
to find the right place, to find the right thing
to do, the right way to be, and so they
are constantly creating messages so that the world treats them
a certain woman. So imagine if the boardrooms were fair
(17:40):
places where more women of color, more black women could
have leadership, I think we'd have a very different world.
Speaker 5 (17:49):
From everything I've heard you say publicly, it seems like
you've really efforted that at every place you've been too.
And yes, not without challenge, girl, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Mostly with a lot of challenge, because I mean, look,
I know that there are all these cash phrases. People
always just like, oh, be unapologetic, and I roll my
eyes because I'm like, no, if you were really unapologetic,
you really would walk in and say the thing that's
on your mind and say it with your chest without
being afraid that somebody's gonna punish you. Because that's what's
(18:21):
gonna happens. You're gonna get punished for the thing that
you said that goes against the grain in the room.
And you better have some metal inside of there that's
not gonna let your voice shake and not let you quiver. Because,
let me tell you, baby, I've been in plenty of
rooms where the people you think are championing you are
sitting there quiet and they come outside and they start
(18:43):
yapping their mouths. But I'm like, the real change happens
when you leave a place and your fingerprints are still
on there.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
Right, that unapologetic attitude is that from your mom?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yes, it's from my mom for sure, from both my parents, honestly,
but also from myself. I give them credit. I give
myself credit ye for being who I am.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
So you're an expert in sales. And no matter what
the product is you're selling or the person is that
you're selling, what you're really selling is a story. And
not everybody knows this unless they've read your book. But
you started your career with Spike Lee. You worked at
an advertising agency.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yes, that's right. A brilliant storyteller.
Speaker 5 (19:26):
One of the most brilliant of all time, and also
unapologetic in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
That part he says the thing yes with his whole chest.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
I'm curious what you learned about storytelling and selling a
story from him.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
You know what honesty's really simple is tell the truth
and tell your truth. I think it's very difficult to
sell a story that doesn't belong to you, because what
happens is that you end up guessing about how the
person would feel or what they would do in said situations.
I can't tell you how many times in leadership positions,
(20:03):
I looked around at my team and it's just like, Ooh,
we don't have enough of this type of person. And
I'm just talking about a raise and ethnicity. I'm talking
about socio phonomic I'm talking about diverse experiences.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I'm talking about sexuality. I'm talking about all the things.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
And this is why I'm a champion of diversity and inclusion,
not because I'm a DEI executive at all. I didn't
go to school for that, none of that. I'm a pragmatist,
you know what I mean. I'm practical. I'm like, Okay,
we need to tell a story to our consumer. I
have the experience of being a black woman, immigrant in
United Stations America who grew up in college France, Colorado.
(20:38):
I happen to be tall, I'm athletic, and I'm cute.
You know, it's a very specific experience, and so I
don't expect to be able to tell the story of everyone, right,
And so one of two things needs to happen.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
One.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I think it's very important for leaders to be empathetic.
And I'm not saying sympathetic pathetic that you're able to
put yourself into shoes that are not yours fully and holy,
without holding back and without judgment. And then you do
need to surround yourself with people who have different experiences
from you and listen to them. You know, they need
(21:15):
to actually contribute to the conversation, so not everybody can
be like you. It's like, I can't tell you how
many times I've stepped into leadership roles and had to
have that conversation with my team to say, Okay, I
know I wore sequence on Tuesday. Okay, but that doesn't
mean you have to in order for me to hear you,
to see you. Yo, you you can wear black all
(21:35):
day long if you want to. You can wear your
hair pulled back in a. butN okay. Just because I
have these tendrils coming down to the middle of my
back does not mean you have to do the same thing,
you know, But I feel like as leaders, you have
to do that in order to cultivate a culture where
people are allowed to say the things, to have an opinion,
and the work will be better, the environment will be better,
(21:58):
and you will be better.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Bosma, you wrote a book called The Urgent Life, and
you speak about living life urgently in your workshops. Yes,
I want that. I think we all want that. I
think everyone listening wants that. What is one thing that
we can all do this week to embody urgency in
our own lives?
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yes, oh, thank you since for this question. I said
this a little bit before, but I want to just
nail it for you for everybody listening, which is that
I cannot emphasize enough how much your intuition impacts the
urgency in your life, meaning that you have to pay
attention to what your spirit is telling you all of
(22:41):
the time. The way that you do that is by
listening to yourself. Now, I know that that's a big
type of word life, Oh, listen to your intuition, but
it is much much harder to execute. It gets to
be disciplined in it, and so yes, it means that
from the small things, you have to listen to yourself.
That's the only way it impacts the big things like
your brain and your body. In your spirit doesn't know
(23:01):
the difference between when you ask somebody their opinion about
what you should eat for lunch and when you ask
somebody their opinion about what kind of career move you
should make. Your spirit doesn't know the difference, and so
your intuition is going to get quieter and quiet on
quieter the more that you ask external inputs on what
is a very personal decision. And so what I am
imploring of you is to be disciplined about your intuition.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Treats your intuition.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
She's your best friend, the one who's going to never
see you wrong, who has your best interests at heart,
and who's always going to take care of you.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
The more you do that, the more successful you will be.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
I've actually started to do something like this because I
totally agree with you. I think we often neglect and
ignore our own desires as women in society. I have
started just vocalizing what I want and the phrase I
want is so powerful. So in my own head, I'll
just be like, I'm feeling something. You know, I'm feeling
an emotion come up? What does that mean? Does that mean?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (23:59):
That means I want community right now. I don't want
to be alone, so I'm gonna go find my friends.
Maybe I just want to zone out and doom scroll.
I want a doom scroll. There's power in actually vocalizing it. Yes,
that's correct, there is power in vocalizing it. I have
to warn you that sometimes you're not gonna get the
thing that you want, but only because there's something greater
(24:22):
coming for you, you know, and you actually have to
believe that and be disciplined in that as well, which
is like, hey, look, I want this thing that I
didn't get it. Okay, I could be sad and upset
about it, but with the belief system that something that
I did not know that was meant for me, that
is better for me, is actually coming. And if you
believe that, then you will fall into the right track.
(24:42):
For this intuition that I believe is just your destiny
waiting to be revealed to you.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
It's the idea of this or something better.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Always, yes, exactly, always, always and that's also why I
have such a positive outlook on life, because look, I've
suffered enough grief in my life to I don't think
anybody would be surprised if I was like, Hey, look,
I'm gonna just crawl into a cave right now and
never come back out. I don't think anybody people would
be like, yep, understood, that's no problem. But I have
a pausitive out look on life because really, I do
(25:11):
believe that there is greater in the world, and there's
greater in my experience as a human that even though
terrible things happen to me and have happened to me,
that I am able to get to the next place
because I recognize that this experience is all laddering up
(25:33):
to something really enormously wonderful for me. Maybe it's that
I'm an optimist, but I don't think that our experiences,
grief or otherwise, should keep us from being optimistic about life.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
Okay, Bose, we have to talk about your new hair
care and wigline, eve By Bows.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
I started the company because it's like, why why do
we not have good wigs, especially as black women and
women of color, Because eighty percent of the consumer base
is us, and we just have been suffering this whole time,
being offered products that aren't with us in mind. And
not only that, it's insulting. You go to shop for
these things online and you're placed with these images that
(26:16):
are like these ugly ass a mannequins, and then you
get the product and it's a terrible plastic bag. It's
like the disrespect of it all, Just like, I'm spending
so much money. Why why am I not in the
center of the conversation, and why am I being treated
like this?
Speaker 2 (26:29):
You know?
Speaker 3 (26:29):
And so when I thought about what to do next,
I don't want a company that would serve all my
needs with me in the center of it, think about
the things I want. And so I got up and
went to Asia, went to go discover, Wow, why it
is that we're not serviced? And I didn't get a
good answer, Like the answer was so simple that I
(26:51):
was like, oh, shoot, you know what, I think. I'm
gonna start my own company. I don't want I don't
want a white label. I don't want to put my
name on somebody else's brand. I'm gonna start my own.
So I built a factory.
Speaker 5 (27:02):
You built a factory.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
I built a factory in Ghana, that's correct, So I
source the raw goods from Asia, so every product has
created in Ghana. Then the product is processed with with
wet goods. Black hair care that I also made. That
I also formulated with the partner of this amazing black
(27:24):
woman chemist.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
She's worked for all of the big companies.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
And it is shipped to Dallas, which is where my
fulfillment company is, and then you go online.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
And you purchase and then it ships all around the world.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
So the hair comes to you in a bonnet, you
take it out of the bonnet, you put the bot
on your head.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
And go to bed.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
The fabric I made myself partnered with a textile company,
the oldest textile company in Ghana. The pattern is luxury,
so you know, it's like you know when you see
the repeated pattern on Gucci or Louis or any of
these other companies. So I took the E off of
my logo. You know, we made the pattern and it
actually makes a dincer symbol and the dinner symbols are
(28:02):
old symbols and Ghana they represent tenements of like culture
and so the one that is created out of my
pattern is meaning mother Earth, like basically like the weight
of the earth.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
So I've made bonds with the fabric I made and
shipping it everywhere.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
You like to really just start small, don't you? Huh?
Just just bite sized.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I just feel like why not? You know, if you're
gonna do it, do it big. You know, are saying,
do it big.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
What's been the biggest gift of this so far? Because
when you see someone where or use your product, it's
just magical.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Oh, it's so wonderful.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I think the biggest gift is just to know that,
like you don't have to guess about the intention in
which the product that you have purchased was made.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
You know.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I think sometimes you purchase something and you don't know,
you know, if it's good for you, You don't know
if they lie in to you, You don't know anything.
I'm like, I made this, these two hands made the
product that you have. The love in my heart was
poured into this every step of the way. When I
tell you that, like the elastic that was used inside
(29:12):
the bonus, I tested it on my own head before
I ever made it. The dozens of times that I
went to Asia and talked to people and felt hair
and talk to about why the laces like this? Why
can't it be brown? The amount of times I use
the wet good of products, the hair care and shampooed
and watched the condition had enough slip on it?
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Would it last? Would it tangle?
Speaker 5 (29:36):
Girl?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
I put love in this, and so I feel like
when I see somebody rocking one of my products, I'm like,
that's just a hug from me.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
That's just me telling you I love you.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Foes, You're the best.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Thank you so much, God, thank you, thank you, thank
you have a great one.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Bozma Saint John is a marketing executive, entrepreneur and the
author of the memoir The Urgent Life. You can watch
her now on the new season of the Real Housewives
of Beverly Hills Tuesdays on Bravo and the following day
on Peacock.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
We have to take another short break, but we'll be
back in just a minute.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Don't go anywhere, and we're back, Okay, Danielle. We are
mere weeks away from the holidays. Have you nailed down
your holiday plans yet? For like, let's say, New Year's
what are you doing? Oh?
Speaker 5 (30:36):
I don't know. New Year stresses me out some own
it feels like so much pressure. How about you? Are
you ready for your trip back east? And more importantly,
are you ready to officially host on Airbnb and have
another family in your house for a week?
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (30:50):
On both accounts. Besties. You know this has been a
long time coming. We've talked about it on the show before. Yes,
I am actually hosting guests at my home through Airbnb.
But you know, I lived in New York for several
years and it is like a second home for me.
So we try to go back to the East Coast
as often as possible, especially when it feels all magical
this time of year. So my family and I are
headed to the city and then driving upstate for some
(31:11):
Christmas ey things, And while we're away, we are going
to be hosting our space on Airbnb. And it's kind
of perfect because this time of year, you know, it's
so expensive to travel, and the cash ro making is
actually going to help cover the cost of our trip.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Also, La is pretty magical this time of year, right, Danielle, Hmm,
I've actually never been in LA for the holidays. I
think I'm going to be here for the first time
this year. Well, there's so much hype surrounding the snow
and the Northeast and the Midwest around the holidays, and
it is beautiful, don't get me wrong. But a nice, warm, breezy,
(31:45):
seventy two degree La Christmas is also pretty great too.
Speaker 5 (31:48):
I just love a slower pace wherever you are spending
your holidays. I just hope you have a slower pace.
But you are such an La girly. So what are
your go to rex for people traveling to LA for
the first time.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Well, it's funny you asked, because I actually just wrote
out a bunch of recommendations in this guest guide that
I'm leaving for the families who are going to be
staying at our place.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
I would say a few of the highlights are.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Griffith Park, It's kind of like our central park here
in southern California. Wine Country in Santa Barbara is spectacular,
Joshua Tree for the desert vibes. We've got theme parks, Disneyland,
six Flags, Universal Studios, and of course Malibu.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
What would you add to the list.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
Ooh, Malibu's my absolute favorite. I love the Malibu Country
mart I usually spend my birthday there. I get breakfast
there in the morning. Okay, adding maybe a hike on
Runyon Canyon if you want to see all the Instagram
girlies take photos of themselves hiking, I would add I'm
a restaurant girl, so I would add a few West
(32:47):
Hollywood maybe like LA hotspots like Craigs, you'll definitely have
a celeb siting.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
I did include some restaurants in there, so I should
add Craigs. I love what you're doing with this guest guide.
It's so nice of you. What else are you doing
to prepare? Well, we have a fire pit outside, so
we're planning to leave a cute little s'mores kit for
the guests to use. And then I've been incorporating some
other little touches that I've seen in other airbnbs that
I've loved. So we're putting coffee cups, mugs, and a
(33:16):
French press in the bedroom so you can have coffee
in bed. We're gonna have the pool toys set out
all the heater instructions so you can take a dip
in the winter.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Well, I feel like you've been hyping up your Airbnb
hosting moment for months and it is finally here. I'm
very excited for you.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
You know what's funny, A lot of people ask me,
are you really doing it? Are you really hosting your
home on Airbnb? And I'm like, yes, I'm actually doing it.
The whole process has actually been less intimidating than I thought.
I mean, it's been super user friendly. Airbnb has a
new feature called co hosting, So I was able to
connect with a local Airbnb host who's way more experience
with this than I am, and she helped me get
(33:54):
set up with my listing. And they also have this
great support team that's super responsive. They sent out a photographer,
got the photos all done, They have checklists for hosts
to help you get ready, and then also the platform
just makes it really easy to communicate with your guests.
I've been using the app on my phone and it's
way easier and straightforward.
Speaker 5 (34:12):
Well, I cannot wait to hear about your experience after
all of this, and it's making me think about a
girl's trip Airbnb in Chicago for Saint Patrick's Day.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
What do you think I have never been to Chicago
during Saint Patrick's Day?
Speaker 4 (34:25):
Is it a site to see?
Speaker 1 (34:26):
I'm down the river is green? Simone, Oh, I got
to see this. Your home might be worth more than
you think. Find out how much at airbnb dot com
slash host.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're popping off with
New York Times best selling author, comedian, and screenwriter Danny Pellegrino.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect
with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram
and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and
feel free to tag us at Simone Boyce and at
Danielle Robe.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.
Host
Simone Boyce
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