May 1, 2024 • 36 mins
Neha Ruch founded Mother Untitled as a community for mothers rethinking their relationship to work. The goal: to give clarity and confidence to women who are considering a career pause or downshift, and to shift the perception of what it means to be a stay-at-home parent. Plus, Danielle and Simone get into the phrases that successful women use at work. Do you use any of these phrases at work? Maybe you have your own? Let us know at Hello@thebrightsidepodcast.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, bright Side, besties, Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Today on the bright Side, we're talking to mother Untitled
founder and CEO, Neja Rouche. She's redefining stay at home
motherhood with her revolutionary digital community. It's Wednesday, May First.
I'm Danielle Robe.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
And I'm Simone Boyce and this is the bright Side
from Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Happy Wednesday.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
You know, Simone, yesterday we were talking about tennis because
we were key king about Zendeia's new film, Challengers and
all of her fabulous tennis inspired fashion.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I am ready for my country club era. I just
want to put it out there right now. Catch me
at the club, y'all.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I'm ready to see you in all of your tennis
fashion too. Tennis was my quarantine sport and I haven't
picked up my racket since. But my mom got me
into pickle and I think that the next step of
this is padel. Have you heard of this padel? What
is It's the fastest growing racket sport in the world.
(01:04):
It's sort of like a mixture between tennis and squash,
and it looks like a pickle court, but you have
glass walls around you. It's really really popular in Spain.
I think it's like the biggest sport after soccer in Spain,
and now America is catching on.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Have you played Padel?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
No, I haven't played.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I just keep hearing about it, and I feel like
maybe it's a good date spot now. I always see
in movies people do like running clubs, and it just
seems really hard to talk and run at the same time.
I feel like Pickle or Padel I have a much
better shot at meeting a man.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I think you might be right. I mean, these racket
sports are all over my feet all the time. It
seems like all of them across the board are exploding
in popularity, and it's a really interesting question to ask why.
Why do you think that is?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I think it all started during COVID.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
It was a game that people were really playing because
it took up less space than tennis, Like not everybody
had access to a tennis court. You can just pick
up a paddle quickly play, and then people fell in
love with it. I also think it's accessible for all levels,
Like my mom was incredible and I was not so good,
and we could still play together even though she would yell.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
At me sometimes get the ball. Do you have an idea?
Speaker 4 (02:13):
What do you think. I think it's that.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I also think maybe I'm just getting older and my
friends are getting into boomer sports. Maybe that's like, maybe
we're just at that phase in life.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
You know, my mom's going to be so mad at
you for calling it a boomer sport.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Listen, I don't make up these terms. Okay, so don't
come for me, Deanna. But I do love that millennials,
elder millennials are seeking out community in this way. I
think it's a really healthy way to build community. And
like you said, you might meet the love of your
life on a padel court. Have you thought about who
would be on your pickle celebrity draft team, like your
(02:53):
ideal celebrities to play a pickle with?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I mean, obviously I'm having an all women team offense
to the men, but women are just like better at
most things. So can I draft our executive producer Rees Weatherspoon.
Can she be Team Haden?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Yes, one hundred percent. I feel like she plays right.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I kind of want like a Hello Sunshine pickleball or
Podel squad.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Wait, this is genius.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
We need to talk to the powers that be because
I see a lot of alignment here. I see a
lot of synergy here. Another thing that I'm seeing all
over my social media right now is this list of
phrases that quote successful women use in the workplace. This
is an article that I came across by Every Girl.
And you know, we've talked about on this show how
(03:40):
we've learned to advocate for ourselves over the years at
work and what's worked for us and what hasn't worked
for us in our careers. But I thought it was
interesting that they actually put together this list of phrases,
and they organize them in these categories that make it
a little easier to understand. So some phrases are organized
by ways to express either disagreement or agreement with people
(04:03):
that you work with. Some of these phrases help you
manage conflict better, and then some of these help you
advocate for yourself.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
So I'm going to read a few of them that
stood out to me.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, I want to know which ones you liked.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Here's one that I really like. They said, I don't
see it this way, and here's why. This is one
that empowers us to share our opinions even when they
differ from other opinions in the room. And then you
can kind of back that up with concrete reasons with evidence.
I think that's always important. Thanks for your patience. I
really like this one whenever you're delayed, or you're running late,
(04:39):
or you're late turning in an assignment or something, because
that helps us move away from apologizing unnecessarily. M hm.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
You know what's so funny.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I'm going to use a version of this or disagree
to agree because I thought that this article was full
of terrible advice. I like that it gave us shortcuts
because I think it's really hard to think on this
spot when you feel shocked or you're uncomfortable or you
don't know what to say at work. But I don't
(05:07):
like the phrases that they shared. One of them was
I deserve a raise.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
No one, absolutely, nobody who has been in the workforce
is going to agree that you walk into your boss's
office and say I deserve a raise and that works
like that is terrible advice.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
I don't think they're saying that you walk in and
just say I deserve a raise. I think that that
is the starting point for the conversation, I deserve a raise,
and here's why.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
You need to provide concrete reasons as to why saying you.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Deserve something at work or in our relationship is a
sure fire away for people to feel like you don't
deserve something. It's just a terrible communication tactic.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Oh, I actually disagree.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I think you're advocating for yourself if you state your
desires clearly like that.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I think it's better to ask a question to say
because you have to put it back on them, so
you can say, what would it look like or what
do I need to do to receive a ten percent
raise by the end of the year. You're letting them
know where you'd like to get and how they can
help you get there, and then if you don't get there,
you know that you need to make a shift.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I think that's great advice too. I just think that's
earlier on in the process. When you walk in and
say I deserve a raise, you're already you've already asked
the questions to get yourself there, and you're you already
have the concrete reasons as to why you've earned it.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I think if you have to go in and say
I deserve it, you're you're already lost. There was also
one more that stood out to me. They said, I
appreciate you taking the time to chat today. And I
actually had a mentor to share this with me. He
said that it's better to say I'm grateful for the
opportunity to connect, or I'm grateful for the opportunity to meet,
(06:46):
because it puts you more on an even playing field.
It's mutual versus sounding eager.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Yeah that's a good one too.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, I just thought this whole list was eager, beaver.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
So I get that.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I hear that when I take a step back, can
think about the intention behind this article or the purpose
behind this article. I think it is trying to reach
women who have had a hard time advocating for themselves
in the workplace. And we have a tendency to use
more tentative language in the workplace than men, and it's
often because we feel like we have to cater to
(07:19):
fragile egos that exist in positions of power in the workforce.
And it's also because women are often punished for going
against that stereotype of being the warm, nurturing woman SNAs
for some moan, that's really that likability penalty that we've
talked about. So it's unfortunate that we even have to
(07:40):
discuss this, But I appreciate the intent behind this piece.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Oh yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I think it's great to have keywords or phrases in
your pocket because it's really hard to come up with
it on the spot. And I also want to be
really clear that I have learned these phrases over the
last ten twelve years by saying all of the wrong
things for years and really having to navigate those strange waters.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Do you feel like you've become more assertive over the
course of your career.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yes, And I figured out exactly why.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I interviewed a child psychologist, doctor Eliza Pressman, and I
asked her how you raise a confident kid, and she said,
competence breeds confidence. Doing things well or just doing them
at all, even if you're doing them poorly, breeds confidence.
And so I can very distinctly say that at the
beginning of my career I didn't have that confidence because
(08:38):
I wasn't practiced, I didn't have the experience, and I
honestly didn't have the skill set to really back it up.
And now eleven years later, I walk into a room
and I know that I'm competent, and so I feel confident.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
I like that a lot competence breeds confidence.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
You know. It's the words of someone else recently made
me realize how assertive I've become. Tell me, actually, someone
that we work with I had worked with her in
the past about I want to say, five years ago,
and when we started working together in this environment, she
was like, Wow, I didn't realize you were that assertive.
I've never seen this side of you whenever I've been
(09:18):
standing up for my ideas or pitching ideas in our
in our office. And I was like, huh, that's so interesting,
and it made me realize I probably have become a
lot more assertive in the five years that we haven't
worked together, But it was interesting to me that someone
else picked up on that growth.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah. Well, first of all, kudos to you. That's like,
it's nice to recognize that. And also, you can say
anything you want, you just have to say it with
some tact. And that's also something that I've learned by
making mistakes at work.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I know I talk about therapy a lot on this podcast,
but therapy has made me a better communicator in life,
and so I do feel like it's given me some
words in a vocabulary to deal with conflict.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Also, all right, we're gonna pivot to a different kind
of conflict now tell me. So. People online are posing
this hypothetical question, and this whole trend has just been
cracking me up. Here's the question, would you rather be
trapped in the woods with a man or a bear?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I don't understand this whole equip like, obviously a man.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Why would I ever want to be trapped with a bear?
Speaker 4 (10:30):
I think that I.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Think that women are just using this as an opportunity
to say, like, I've had encounters with men where I
don't feel safe, and this is kind of like a funny,
lighthearted way to go around having to go about having
that conversation.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
But I totally agree with would you who would you
rather be trapped to?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
With it?
Speaker 4 (10:48):
I'd rather be trapped with a man. For sure. I
can take any man. I'm confident I have.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I have a fault, maybe a false sense of confidence
that I can take any man. When I solo traveled,
nobody he really tried me because I'm six feet tall,
So like I just maybe it's a false sense of confidence.
But I walk through the world thinking that I can
take down to any man anytime that I want.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, you absolutely can.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
The funniest to me is when women are asking their
husbands would you rather be stuck in the in the
woods with a manner of bear? And then the husband's
pick a bear? That to me is crazy.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Wait, I should I should ask my husband to answer
for this question. Now I don't think he's home. Shoot, okay,
I'm going to ask him that though, because that's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Please get back to us.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
After the break.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
We're talking career pauses and pivots with Neha Rush.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Stay with us.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
All right.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Today we are changing the narrative around stay at home moms.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Danielle.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
So many women, including myself, at one point, fear starting
a family will be a career ender. Right.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I used to think if I don't make it quote
unquote by thirty, it's over for me because I want
a family one day, and how will I ever have time.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
This dang thirty milestone bothers me because I feel like
everything opens up after thirty.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
The best part is you wake up at thirty and
you're like, oh, I'm the same person as I was yesterday.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, and I actually care less about what people think. Yeah,
my goals are clear. Well, our guest today is doing
something that I believe no one else out there is doing,
starting a conversation that is long overdue. She's changing the
cultural conversation around stay at home motherhood. She's the founder
of mother Untitled and she's here to talk about career pauses,
(12:46):
motherhood and what we gain by taking a step away
from work. Her name is Naha Rouche and we are
so excited to have her here today.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
On the bright side, Nayh, welcome to the show. I'm
so happy to be here. Thank you both.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
How do you explain mother Untitled to people who haven't
heard of it yet?
Speaker 6 (13:04):
I really explain it as the first resource to empower
women on career pauses or down shifts with a sense
of confidence and clarity, support to walk through it and
come out the other side. Connected to possibility. The community
itself is a cohort of ambitious women in any spectrum
of the gray area between stay home and working mother
(13:25):
So some of them are on full pause, some of
them have downshifted to part time work.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
I mean, it's really comprehensive. You have a weekly newsletter,
a website with tons of resources for moms, like guides
for how to leave or return to work. There's a
directory of mental health and career experts. There's even a
jobs board to help women find flexible work.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Okay, I think we need to rewind a little bit.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
So will you take us back to twenty seventeen, seven
years ago when you created this community mother untitled Why
did you feel called to launch this?
Speaker 6 (13:56):
I had put in a decade in brand strategy, I'd
gone to business school. I really believed that my career
was thriving and it was ongoing, and I had my
first child, and I was sitting in a white rocking
chair thinking, oh, like finally, And I think it was
this sense of not having to try so hard. At
(14:18):
that point, I downshifted into part time work and eventually
would pause. But I didn't downshift to make room for
motherhood because I thought it was a better choice for him.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I wanted more of that for me.
Speaker 6 (14:29):
And so then I was walking around the flat Iron
six months in, and I was meeting all these incredible
women who were making their own similar pauses and downshifts,
and they were starting their own ventures, and none of
it matched the caricature that we were being fed about
this day at home parent. And meanwhile, mid I had
my first child at the height of the Lenan movement
(14:50):
and the girl Boss era, so the idea of women
choosing to pause or downshift felt really antithetical to that,
and so the women I were meeting felt a shame
and stigma about it. And part of it is that
there was no platform representing them as modern, empowered women
who still had decades of career ahead of them. So
I started planting the seeds for the platform in January
(15:14):
of twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Nayhow when I was in my twenties, I was one
of those women who thought my career as a broadcaster
is going to be over when I become a mom.
I made this really big decision to just completely walk
away from my job and not return from maternity leave.
So whereas yours was a downshift, mine was a true
like hard stop. And then I found you and mother untitled,
and I realized I wasn't alone when I quit my job,
(15:38):
and your community has offered me so much belonging in
peace and support. But I'm curious, what are some of
the limiting beliefs that you had to let go of
in order to walk away from your career, at least
for a time.
Speaker 6 (15:54):
Well, I mean, I think it's universal, and you're speaking
to it, this idea of we've gotten so much worth
and so much identity from our careers. Yes, right, And
I think whether you initially downshift and then eventually pause,
or you fully pause right away, the question that I
hear is how do you answer the question?
Speaker 4 (16:13):
What do you do?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I remember the first.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
Time someone asked me that, this woman asked me, and
it was so well intended, but I every part of
me shriveled inside and I word vomited on her, and
I realized that I'd had all these neat, little identifiers
about who I was and what I cared about in
my background, and that I'd worked hard. And then suddenly
when you say stay at home mom, or I'm focused
(16:36):
on family life. It still feels like in a culture
that has tied so much of our ideas of ambition,
our ideas of worth, our ideas of productivity to career progression,
when you step away from that, you have to re
architect what that means for you.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Especially because of the whole leaning era in which a
lot of us came up. I mean, that was the
messaging that your word, your value, is attached to your
career and that becomes your whole identity.
Speaker 6 (17:06):
Yes, and I think it dates further back. So I
think if we look way back when the second wave
of feminism was happening, we left the women who were
choosing to focus on family life with this nineteen seventies
archetype right of defending tradition, and we kept doing the
(17:27):
work to move forward the really.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Strong images of women's capacity in.
Speaker 6 (17:32):
The workforce, and we left the woman who was choosing
to focus on the house for a period of time
with the character of a June Cleaver, and we never
really fixed that powercast. I mean, I think it crescendoed
with the Lenan movement and with the millennial generation like you,
Simone and me that were fed this idea of we
(17:57):
can do this. But then equally, we have huge sense
of identity that we glean from family life too, and
those two things started to butt up against each other.
And I think we were sitting at that moment now
of great sort of re examination.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
You're not alone in grappling with this decision to pause
or to reduce outside work. Can you help define the
scale for us how many women are making the same decision.
Speaker 6 (18:22):
So we commissioned a survey last year. It's called American
Mothers un Pause, and so the best data that came
out of it is that one in three women are
considering a pause in the next two years, one in
two are considering a downshift.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
And why that's so important.
Speaker 6 (18:41):
Is because it reminds us all that we are ever evolving.
We are more alike than we are different. And when
we realize that actually we're all this population that are
trying to make the best choice for right now, and
if we can lift the shame and stigma about any
one choice, we allow women to make the right choice
for right now without penalty on the other side, And that,
(19:03):
in essence is the movement of mother untitled. It's not
to say that stay at home motherhood or career breaks
for caregiving are the is the right choice. It's to
say that women are still contributing, they are still growing,
that many women are actually having to make this choice
or wanting to make this choice at any time, And
so how can we recognize and dignify that work so
(19:26):
that they're able to return when and if they want to.
When you say women are still contributing, what do you mean?
I think that for too long. The unbeaid labor on
the home was just kind of assumed as nothing tasks,
something that's easily outsourced or easily done by anyone and everyone.
But I think at a base level, contributing means valuing
(19:49):
the care work that is being done in the home
so that that parent can also be able to say
I need support because no one should have to work
twenty four to seven. And our research also shows us
that actually one in three women have never gotten any assistance,
including family help, so they're doing this on their own.
And a lot of it, anecdotally when I've interviewed women,
(20:11):
is because they feel like if they're not working for pay,
they don't deserve help or support. It is such a
false belief, and what it does is it shuts her
off from being the supported caregiver she deserves to be.
It shuts her off from community, it shuts her off
from mental health opportunities, and it shuts her off from
the ability to really enjoy the stage of life like
(20:32):
she deserves to.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
You've really started a discussion around that, around judgment, around
privilege in career pausing. That can be a tricky territory
to navigate. What kind of conversation. Are you seeing on
the platform around that.
Speaker 6 (20:48):
I'm so glad you asked, because I think one of
the limiting beliefs in tropes is that stay at home
motherhood is a luxury. What we know is the decision
to pause is so nuanced, and actually one in three
parents choose to pause right now because of the cost
of caregiving. Right we know the cost or childcare is astronomical,
and so it's not a luxury on either side.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
It's a privilege to get to choose.
Speaker 6 (21:13):
And I think if we can embrace that, we start
to stop weaponizing privilege and really just start to think systemically.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
About how to support all choices. Do you know the
percentage of fathers that choose to pause versus mothers.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
It's rising, as you can imagine.
Speaker 6 (21:29):
It's one in five as of this year, according to Indeed,
and that number seems to be trending upward. As much
as I get frustrated now we're suddenly evaluing on paid
labor as soon as the number starts to take up
word when men pause for on paid labor, I think
there's a real opportunity when stay at home parenting becomes
(21:51):
less gendered and we can look at it as not
a women's issue, but a human issue.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
So I read that thirty percent of partnerships split over
household and childcare duties. It's a huge point of contention.
I'm so curious how you and your partner personally share
the responsibilities in your house.
Speaker 6 (22:12):
My partner and I had very deliberate conversations from very
early on, and I encourage you know, in the first
section of my book, The Power Pause really centered on
how to plan and how to plan with your partner
in the case of a two parent household, because it's
so important that both partners understand the value that you're contributing.
And think about if we're each putting in a workday
(22:35):
right from nine to five, and I'm at home when
he came home his quote unquote work Dan did and
so did mine, and from that point on, we're sharing
the household labor, right. I don't always think it was
fifty to fifty. I think it was fair and equitable,
and I think it was an ongoing conversation. We had
really deliberate conversations about where he could help because he
(22:57):
wasn't able to always be home, so he did all
of the paperwork, so he filled out the doctor's forms
because he was always in front of a computer and
I was on the playground, and we.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Recalibrate every year.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
I think it's important to also take into account that
when we sit down at the top of the year,
every January, we have our money meeting, and we will
look at the year behind us, We'll look at a
variety of different budget allocations and figure out, Okay, what
part did we do well on, and we make those
(23:28):
decisions jointly. And I think it's so important that even
though he was the one working for pay, we made
those decisions together. We budgeted together, and I did not
get a lesser budget because I was not working for pay.
I think he's doing a lot more now than I am, candidly,
and I think that's part of this whole conversation, is
(23:49):
that it's ever shifting.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
That's exactly where we're at right now.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Right now, my husband is taking care of the lion's
share of caregiving responsibilities, and that is I think that's
the most important thing that I've learned in my four
years thus far as a parent, is the need for
both of us to be flexible and that all of
this comes in seasons. Right now, he is the one
who is keeping stuff together at home and I'm out
(24:16):
at work. But that might change, you know, in the
next three to six months. And so I think when
you view it temporarily and not thinking like, oh, this
is our life now, this is going to be our
life forever, but just holding it a bit more loosely,
I think that allows you to extend more grace to
your partner too. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (24:35):
I always think the phrase right now helps, so you
can prioritize what's important for right now and sort of
recalibrate as you go.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Do you have a vision for how you want things
to look?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I would like my husband to do everything. No, I'm kidding. No,
I would like an equitable partnership.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
But I think.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
It seems when I interview people, when I hear people
like you talk about it, that flexibility is really the key.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
When you interview men on dates, you mean.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, when I interview men on dates, that's good exactly.
Speaker 6 (25:06):
I will tell you there were two things I took
into account when I married my husband. One, he was
a really fantastic cook. He's a doer, He's just a door.
I like to think of myself. I'm a good thinker.
I like to plan and strategize and overthink our problems,
and he's better at just getting stuff done. But he
also had a really short last name. As soon as
(25:28):
I met him, I was like, are you c H
versus y Lurker, which was my last name?
Speaker 1 (25:33):
And I was like, I'm you. You check the box.
Speaker 6 (25:36):
You're going to cook for our family and it's going
to be the world's shortest last name.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I was just thinking the other day, like, what if
I meet somebody and I love them and I hate
their last name, don't do it.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Yeah, you don't have to change the name though, folks, No.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
But like your kids that I don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
I guess there's a whole conversation to be had whether
we want to keep doing this. Yeh, that's like patriarchal lineage.
But another podcast.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
I'm of the opinion that I've been simone Voice for
I was like twenty three when I got married. I
was Simone Boys for twenty three years. Why do I
need to change names when it's no longer This like
something to mark this exchange of like feudal territories.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
But choice, it's all about choice.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
I love that you're always talking about choice, Nehu, because
choice is agency.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
You said something at the top of this interview that
I keep thinking about as we're talking. You said you
didn't want to feel like you didn't fit anymore. Why
did you personally feel like you didn't fit? And why
why do you see that among women more?
Speaker 1 (26:34):
You know, I think we.
Speaker 6 (26:36):
Are holding so many notions of what we should be,
and many of them sometimes are are in conflict with
one another, right, and so when we feel that tension,
when we're supposed to be strong and we're supposed to
be powerful, and we're supposed to also be feminine and
soft and kind, you know, a lot of that implodes.
(26:58):
And so I'll tell you, guys working at a tech
start running brand. When I had my first child in
a very male dominated tech sector, you had to sort
of take on one persona, and then in another sector,
when you're managing teams of young women, you have to
be another persona. And I was always sort of contorting
myself to fit the room. You know, I immigrated to
this country, immigrated to a predominantly white town, and I
(27:20):
remember in my teens purposefully imploding my math in science
scores or grading because I wanted to sort of upend
the idea that like all Indians were really good at
math and science, and I was partying hard, I was
just trying to fit and I left and I decided
to take a year off and I ended up traveling
(27:40):
for a year. And that year away really was so
powerful for me, and I think it really developed a
self trust and take in sort of parting with that path,
but really motherhood did that for me, and taking that
time to just be. And I think why we're so
exhausted is because we've had this very linear view of
and productivity. And when we start to sort of embrace
(28:04):
a softer view that's more of a portfolio of different
things we care about and different things we do, and
different things we need to move forward, then we start
to be able to really refocus on the things that
matter instead of holding it all so tightly.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
We're taking a quick break, and when we come back,
we're talking about the benefits of taking a step away
from work.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
We're back with Nyhush as a mom who is on
social media a lot and consumes a lot of mom
related social content. I want to make sure that we
also talk about the joy when you think back to
that time when you are fully at home and being
a mom for five years.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
What kind of joy did motherhood awaken in you?
Speaker 6 (28:54):
Motherhood gets such a bad pr there's boring parts of
every job, right, And I think you can accept that
and then you realize that there's an innocence and pure
joy that they glean from learning that if you can emulate,
it reignites that curiosity in you. And I think for
me a lot of that was through art and play
(29:18):
with them. I think I was always someone trying to
fit that I had sort of created a very specific
sort of persona, and my kids let me be silly again.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
So when this comes naturally to you.
Speaker 6 (29:31):
But I was not someone who just like danced around
a room, you know. I was so self conscious of that.
And kids, when you part with your ego because you
have to and they want you to, it unlocks something
a little bit more free.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
And as you were talking, I just thought about how
I feel like my kids are making me a better interviewer.
They're making me better at my job because kids always
ask the best questions, and it's just reminding me to
come from a place of genuine curiosity. I learned so
much from them all the time.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah, and I can also imagine talking to kids like
you really have to explain something clearly, so you probably
learn to be an even clearer communicator. I was laughing
as you were talking because my mom always said to
me she was a working mom, but she was like.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
You're a producer.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
I executive produced this family for thirty years. You're a founder.
I'm the CEO of this family, have been for thirty years.
Like moms are off Deana, they're like dermatologists, they're pediatricians,
they're all of the things. But I really think that Naha,
you're a huge part of this stay at home motherhood
community evolving.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
You've really created a movement. Is the book part of that.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I want you to talk about the power of Pause
and how you're thinking about this book.
Speaker 6 (30:51):
So The Power Pause comes out January fourteenth, twenty twenty five.
And I do think it is a stake in the
around to say it's time for the culture to re
examine the tropes around stay at home motherhood. And you know,
I think is one part a guide. It's the first
of its kind that really upends a lot of tropes
(31:12):
but walks a woman through how to plan, how to
walk through it with confidence and more ease and enjoyment.
How to then transition back and use this as a
time to explore and potentially return with confidence and enthusiasm.
But it's also a cultural call to action.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
I actually get several young, ambitious, career minded women who
come to me and they're like, I'm thinking about having
a family at one point. How do I navigate this?
Is there a right time? And I often point them
to you, to Mother Untitled, because I think you're such
a great resource. So whenever you encounter women like that
out in the wild who have questions about what this
(31:51):
looks like, what advice do you have for them?
Speaker 6 (31:54):
I think the first is to examine all the opportunities
that exist for them. It isn't so black and white.
That would be the first thing I would say. So,
you know, this is very industry dependent. I think some
industries are more flexible than others.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
As you know.
Speaker 6 (32:09):
I encourage women to seek out mentors who have done
this before, who have walked a myriad of different paths,
and think about what's available to them to allow them
to stay connected to their work if that's what they want,
or take a full pause and return. And the part
(32:30):
two is also to not make any decisions before having
really lived the experience of motherhood that I know so
many women who said I thought I was going to
stay at home, and actually I really felt called to return.
And I also know women on the inverse who said
I thought for sure I would return, and then I
felt really called to stay at home.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
So true.
Speaker 6 (32:52):
And also go through the financial budgeting as to what's
available to you in terms of taking a pause or
down shift. You know, one of the saddest things things
in this country is and the saddest messages I receive
are the women who write me two weeks postpartum saying
I think I want to do this, I don't know.
And my advice to them is, don't do anything until
(33:13):
you absolutely have to. No woman should have to make
this decision at six weeks postpartum. Unfortunately too many women do.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Gott to let the hormones balance out too. I would
just say, don't make any big decisions while.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Don't make any big decisions. Don't cut your hair.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Don't cut bangs, don't cut bangs during postpartum, don't.
Speaker 6 (33:33):
Cut banks, don't quit your jab just wait, get all
the data.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Naha.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Thank you so much for chatting with.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Us Thank you, na Oh, it was such a pleasure.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Nahal Rouche is the founder and CEO of Mother Untitled
and the author of The Power Pause, coming in twenty
twenty five. You can follow her on ig and TikTok
at Mother Untitled.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Simon.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
We have to take a moment to reflect on our
conversation with Neha because there was.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
A lot there, Danielle, I'm feeling really empowered by that
conversation with Neha.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
I feel the same way. She really gives people tools.
It's so actionable and tactical. It's not philosophical, you know.
I mean, I'm here for a total cultural societal redesign.
I don't think that domestic expectations and societal expectations have
caught up to where women are in the workforce. Like
(34:33):
we're effectively just doing more all of the time. But
in the meantime, Neha is giving people words, tools and
opportunities to work within the system we have, you know,
like this is what we're living right now.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Her message around living in the gray area, finding freedom
and liberation in the gray area is so important and empowering.
I love that she focus is on the right now.
I've always internalized this mantra about just do the next
right thing. And I think when you live that way,
(35:10):
you're able to hold your life and your goals and
your current situation in a much looser fashion and just
say like I'm being flexible in this moment, like maybe
this is the way that I'm doing things right now.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
Isn't going to last forever?
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yeah, that flexibility is really it's really just liberating. I
keep coming back to that word.
Speaker 6 (35:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
And I think you know, the word you used, empowering,
is so right too, because we just have the systemic
devaluation of women's time, both at home and at work,
and I really think NAHA is trying to combat that.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
I think the work that Neha is doing is really
heart centered and it makes a lot of women who
have previously been unseen feel seen and that is a
true gift.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Really well, so.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
All right, best to you tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
We are back at it with another edition of Asking
for a Friend with Friendship coach Danielle Buyer Jackson.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Ooh, this was a good one.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
It really was. And that's it for today's show.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
So listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
I'm Simone Boye.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
You can find me at Simone Boye on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
That's Oro Bay.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
We'll see you tomorrow, folks,
Hey, bright Side, besties, Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Today on the bright Side, we're talking to mother Untitled
founder and CEO, Neja Rouche. She's redefining stay at home
motherhood with her revolutionary digital community. It's Wednesday, May First.
I'm Danielle Robe.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
And I'm Simone Boyce and this is the bright Side
from Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Happy Wednesday.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
You know, Simone, yesterday we were talking about tennis because
we were key king about Zendeia's new film, Challengers and
all of her fabulous tennis inspired fashion.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I am ready for my country club era. I just
want to put it out there right now. Catch me
at the club, y'all.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I'm ready to see you in all of your tennis
fashion too. Tennis was my quarantine sport and I haven't
picked up my racket since. But my mom got me
into pickle and I think that the next step of
this is padel. Have you heard of this padel? What
is It's the fastest growing racket sport in the world.
(01:04):
It's sort of like a mixture between tennis and squash,
and it looks like a pickle court, but you have
glass walls around you. It's really really popular in Spain.
I think it's like the biggest sport after soccer in Spain,
and now America is catching on.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Have you played Padel?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
No, I haven't played.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I just keep hearing about it, and I feel like
maybe it's a good date spot now. I always see
in movies people do like running clubs, and it just
seems really hard to talk and run at the same time.
I feel like Pickle or Padel I have a much
better shot at meeting a man.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I think you might be right. I mean, these racket
sports are all over my feet all the time. It
seems like all of them across the board are exploding
in popularity, and it's a really interesting question to ask why.
Why do you think that is?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I think it all started during COVID.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
It was a game that people were really playing because
it took up less space than tennis, Like not everybody
had access to a tennis court. You can just pick
up a paddle quickly play, and then people fell in
love with it. I also think it's accessible for all levels,
Like my mom was incredible and I was not so good,
and we could still play together even though she would yell.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
At me sometimes get the ball. Do you have an idea?
Speaker 4 (02:13):
What do you think. I think it's that.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I also think maybe I'm just getting older and my
friends are getting into boomer sports. Maybe that's like, maybe
we're just at that phase in life.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
You know, my mom's going to be so mad at
you for calling it a boomer sport.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Listen, I don't make up these terms. Okay, so don't
come for me, Deanna. But I do love that millennials,
elder millennials are seeking out community in this way. I
think it's a really healthy way to build community. And
like you said, you might meet the love of your
life on a padel court. Have you thought about who
would be on your pickle celebrity draft team, like your
(02:53):
ideal celebrities to play a pickle with?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I mean, obviously I'm having an all women team offense
to the men, but women are just like better at
most things. So can I draft our executive producer Rees Weatherspoon.
Can she be Team Haden?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Yes, one hundred percent. I feel like she plays right.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I kind of want like a Hello Sunshine pickleball or
Podel squad.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Wait, this is genius.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
We need to talk to the powers that be because
I see a lot of alignment here. I see a
lot of synergy here. Another thing that I'm seeing all
over my social media right now is this list of
phrases that quote successful women use in the workplace. This
is an article that I came across by Every Girl.
And you know, we've talked about on this show how
(03:40):
we've learned to advocate for ourselves over the years at
work and what's worked for us and what hasn't worked
for us in our careers. But I thought it was
interesting that they actually put together this list of phrases,
and they organize them in these categories that make it
a little easier to understand. So some phrases are organized
by ways to express either disagreement or agreement with people
(04:03):
that you work with. Some of these phrases help you
manage conflict better, and then some of these help you
advocate for yourself.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
So I'm going to read a few of them that
stood out to me.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, I want to know which ones you liked.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Here's one that I really like. They said, I don't
see it this way, and here's why. This is one
that empowers us to share our opinions even when they
differ from other opinions in the room. And then you
can kind of back that up with concrete reasons with evidence.
I think that's always important. Thanks for your patience. I
really like this one whenever you're delayed, or you're running late,
(04:39):
or you're late turning in an assignment or something, because
that helps us move away from apologizing unnecessarily. M hm.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
You know what's so funny.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I'm going to use a version of this or disagree
to agree because I thought that this article was full
of terrible advice. I like that it gave us shortcuts
because I think it's really hard to think on this
spot when you feel shocked or you're uncomfortable or you
don't know what to say at work. But I don't
(05:07):
like the phrases that they shared. One of them was
I deserve a raise.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
No one, absolutely, nobody who has been in the workforce
is going to agree that you walk into your boss's
office and say I deserve a raise and that works
like that is terrible advice.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
I don't think they're saying that you walk in and
just say I deserve a raise. I think that that
is the starting point for the conversation, I deserve a raise,
and here's why.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
You need to provide concrete reasons as to why saying you.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Deserve something at work or in our relationship is a
sure fire away for people to feel like you don't
deserve something. It's just a terrible communication tactic.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Oh, I actually disagree.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I think you're advocating for yourself if you state your
desires clearly like that.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I think it's better to ask a question to say
because you have to put it back on them, so
you can say, what would it look like or what
do I need to do to receive a ten percent
raise by the end of the year. You're letting them
know where you'd like to get and how they can
help you get there, and then if you don't get there,
you know that you need to make a shift.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I think that's great advice too. I just think that's
earlier on in the process. When you walk in and
say I deserve a raise, you're already you've already asked
the questions to get yourself there, and you're you already
have the concrete reasons as to why you've earned it.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I think if you have to go in and say
I deserve it, you're you're already lost. There was also
one more that stood out to me. They said, I
appreciate you taking the time to chat today. And I
actually had a mentor to share this with me. He
said that it's better to say I'm grateful for the
opportunity to connect, or I'm grateful for the opportunity to meet,
(06:46):
because it puts you more on an even playing field.
It's mutual versus sounding eager.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Yeah that's a good one too.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, I just thought this whole list was eager, beaver.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
So I get that.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I hear that when I take a step back, can
think about the intention behind this article or the purpose
behind this article. I think it is trying to reach
women who have had a hard time advocating for themselves
in the workplace. And we have a tendency to use
more tentative language in the workplace than men, and it's
often because we feel like we have to cater to
(07:19):
fragile egos that exist in positions of power in the workforce.
And it's also because women are often punished for going
against that stereotype of being the warm, nurturing woman SNAs
for some moan, that's really that likability penalty that we've
talked about. So it's unfortunate that we even have to
(07:40):
discuss this, But I appreciate the intent behind this piece.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Oh yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I think it's great to have keywords or phrases in
your pocket because it's really hard to come up with
it on the spot. And I also want to be
really clear that I have learned these phrases over the
last ten twelve years by saying all of the wrong
things for years and really having to navigate those strange waters.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Do you feel like you've become more assertive over the
course of your career.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yes, And I figured out exactly why.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I interviewed a child psychologist, doctor Eliza Pressman, and I
asked her how you raise a confident kid, and she said,
competence breeds confidence. Doing things well or just doing them
at all, even if you're doing them poorly, breeds confidence.
And so I can very distinctly say that at the
beginning of my career I didn't have that confidence because
(08:38):
I wasn't practiced, I didn't have the experience, and I
honestly didn't have the skill set to really back it up.
And now eleven years later, I walk into a room
and I know that I'm competent, and so I feel confident.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
I like that a lot competence breeds confidence.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
You know. It's the words of someone else recently made
me realize how assertive I've become. Tell me, actually, someone
that we work with I had worked with her in
the past about I want to say, five years ago,
and when we started working together in this environment, she
was like, Wow, I didn't realize you were that assertive.
I've never seen this side of you whenever I've been
(09:18):
standing up for my ideas or pitching ideas in our
in our office. And I was like, huh, that's so interesting,
and it made me realize I probably have become a
lot more assertive in the five years that we haven't
worked together, But it was interesting to me that someone
else picked up on that growth.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah. Well, first of all, kudos to you. That's like,
it's nice to recognize that. And also, you can say
anything you want, you just have to say it with
some tact. And that's also something that I've learned by
making mistakes at work.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I know I talk about therapy a lot on this podcast,
but therapy has made me a better communicator in life,
and so I do feel like it's given me some
words in a vocabulary to deal with conflict.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Also, all right, we're gonna pivot to a different kind
of conflict now tell me. So. People online are posing
this hypothetical question, and this whole trend has just been
cracking me up. Here's the question, would you rather be
trapped in the woods with a man or a bear?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I don't understand this whole equip like, obviously a man.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Why would I ever want to be trapped with a bear?
Speaker 4 (10:30):
I think that I.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Think that women are just using this as an opportunity
to say, like, I've had encounters with men where I
don't feel safe, and this is kind of like a funny,
lighthearted way to go around having to go about having
that conversation.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
But I totally agree with would you who would you
rather be trapped to?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
With it?
Speaker 4 (10:48):
I'd rather be trapped with a man. For sure. I
can take any man. I'm confident I have.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I have a fault, maybe a false sense of confidence
that I can take any man. When I solo traveled,
nobody he really tried me because I'm six feet tall,
So like I just maybe it's a false sense of confidence.
But I walk through the world thinking that I can
take down to any man anytime that I want.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, you absolutely can.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
The funniest to me is when women are asking their
husbands would you rather be stuck in the in the
woods with a manner of bear? And then the husband's
pick a bear? That to me is crazy.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Wait, I should I should ask my husband to answer
for this question. Now I don't think he's home. Shoot, okay,
I'm going to ask him that though, because that's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Please get back to us.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
After the break.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
We're talking career pauses and pivots with Neha Rush.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Stay with us.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
All right.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Today we are changing the narrative around stay at home moms.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Danielle.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
So many women, including myself, at one point, fear starting
a family will be a career ender. Right.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I used to think if I don't make it quote
unquote by thirty, it's over for me because I want
a family one day, and how will I ever have time.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
This dang thirty milestone bothers me because I feel like
everything opens up after thirty.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
The best part is you wake up at thirty and
you're like, oh, I'm the same person as I was yesterday.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, and I actually care less about what people think. Yeah,
my goals are clear. Well, our guest today is doing
something that I believe no one else out there is doing,
starting a conversation that is long overdue. She's changing the
cultural conversation around stay at home motherhood. She's the founder
of mother Untitled and she's here to talk about career pauses,
(12:46):
motherhood and what we gain by taking a step away
from work. Her name is Naha Rouche and we are
so excited to have her here today.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
On the bright side, Nayh, welcome to the show. I'm
so happy to be here. Thank you both.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
How do you explain mother Untitled to people who haven't
heard of it yet?
Speaker 6 (13:04):
I really explain it as the first resource to empower
women on career pauses or down shifts with a sense
of confidence and clarity, support to walk through it and
come out the other side. Connected to possibility. The community
itself is a cohort of ambitious women in any spectrum
of the gray area between stay home and working mother
(13:25):
So some of them are on full pause, some of
them have downshifted to part time work.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
I mean, it's really comprehensive. You have a weekly newsletter,
a website with tons of resources for moms, like guides
for how to leave or return to work. There's a
directory of mental health and career experts. There's even a
jobs board to help women find flexible work.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Okay, I think we need to rewind a little bit.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
So will you take us back to twenty seventeen, seven
years ago when you created this community mother untitled Why
did you feel called to launch this?
Speaker 6 (13:56):
I had put in a decade in brand strategy, I'd
gone to business school. I really believed that my career
was thriving and it was ongoing, and I had my
first child, and I was sitting in a white rocking
chair thinking, oh, like finally, And I think it was
this sense of not having to try so hard. At
(14:18):
that point, I downshifted into part time work and eventually
would pause. But I didn't downshift to make room for
motherhood because I thought it was a better choice for him.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I wanted more of that for me.
Speaker 6 (14:29):
And so then I was walking around the flat Iron
six months in, and I was meeting all these incredible
women who were making their own similar pauses and downshifts,
and they were starting their own ventures, and none of
it matched the caricature that we were being fed about
this day at home parent. And meanwhile, mid I had
my first child at the height of the Lenan movement
(14:50):
and the girl Boss era, so the idea of women
choosing to pause or downshift felt really antithetical to that,
and so the women I were meeting felt a shame
and stigma about it. And part of it is that
there was no platform representing them as modern, empowered women
who still had decades of career ahead of them. So
I started planting the seeds for the platform in January
(15:14):
of twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Nayhow when I was in my twenties, I was one
of those women who thought my career as a broadcaster
is going to be over when I become a mom.
I made this really big decision to just completely walk
away from my job and not return from maternity leave.
So whereas yours was a downshift, mine was a true
like hard stop. And then I found you and mother untitled,
and I realized I wasn't alone when I quit my job,
(15:38):
and your community has offered me so much belonging in
peace and support. But I'm curious, what are some of
the limiting beliefs that you had to let go of
in order to walk away from your career, at least
for a time.
Speaker 6 (15:54):
Well, I mean, I think it's universal, and you're speaking
to it, this idea of we've gotten so much worth
and so much identity from our careers. Yes, right, And
I think whether you initially downshift and then eventually pause,
or you fully pause right away, the question that I
hear is how do you answer the question?
Speaker 4 (16:13):
What do you do?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I remember the first.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
Time someone asked me that, this woman asked me, and
it was so well intended, but I every part of
me shriveled inside and I word vomited on her, and
I realized that I'd had all these neat, little identifiers
about who I was and what I cared about in
my background, and that I'd worked hard. And then suddenly
when you say stay at home mom, or I'm focused
(16:36):
on family life. It still feels like in a culture
that has tied so much of our ideas of ambition,
our ideas of worth, our ideas of productivity to career progression,
when you step away from that, you have to re
architect what that means for you.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Especially because of the whole leaning era in which a
lot of us came up. I mean, that was the
messaging that your word, your value, is attached to your
career and that becomes your whole identity.
Speaker 6 (17:06):
Yes, and I think it dates further back. So I
think if we look way back when the second wave
of feminism was happening, we left the women who were
choosing to focus on family life with this nineteen seventies
archetype right of defending tradition, and we kept doing the
(17:27):
work to move forward the really.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Strong images of women's capacity in.
Speaker 6 (17:32):
The workforce, and we left the woman who was choosing
to focus on the house for a period of time
with the character of a June Cleaver, and we never
really fixed that powercast. I mean, I think it crescendoed
with the Lenan movement and with the millennial generation like you,
Simone and me that were fed this idea of we
(17:57):
can do this. But then equally, we have huge sense
of identity that we glean from family life too, and
those two things started to butt up against each other.
And I think we were sitting at that moment now
of great sort of re examination.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
You're not alone in grappling with this decision to pause
or to reduce outside work. Can you help define the
scale for us how many women are making the same decision.
Speaker 6 (18:22):
So we commissioned a survey last year. It's called American
Mothers un Pause, and so the best data that came
out of it is that one in three women are
considering a pause in the next two years, one in
two are considering a downshift.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
And why that's so important.
Speaker 6 (18:41):
Is because it reminds us all that we are ever evolving.
We are more alike than we are different. And when
we realize that actually we're all this population that are
trying to make the best choice for right now, and
if we can lift the shame and stigma about any
one choice, we allow women to make the right choice
for right now without penalty on the other side, And that,
(19:03):
in essence is the movement of mother untitled. It's not
to say that stay at home motherhood or career breaks
for caregiving are the is the right choice. It's to
say that women are still contributing, they are still growing,
that many women are actually having to make this choice
or wanting to make this choice at any time, And
so how can we recognize and dignify that work so
(19:26):
that they're able to return when and if they want to.
When you say women are still contributing, what do you mean?
I think that for too long. The unbeaid labor on
the home was just kind of assumed as nothing tasks,
something that's easily outsourced or easily done by anyone and everyone.
But I think at a base level, contributing means valuing
(19:49):
the care work that is being done in the home
so that that parent can also be able to say
I need support because no one should have to work
twenty four to seven. And our research also shows us
that actually one in three women have never gotten any assistance,
including family help, so they're doing this on their own.
And a lot of it, anecdotally when I've interviewed women,
(20:11):
is because they feel like if they're not working for pay,
they don't deserve help or support. It is such a
false belief, and what it does is it shuts her
off from being the supported caregiver she deserves to be.
It shuts her off from community, it shuts her off
from mental health opportunities, and it shuts her off from
the ability to really enjoy the stage of life like
(20:32):
she deserves to.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
You've really started a discussion around that, around judgment, around
privilege in career pausing. That can be a tricky territory
to navigate. What kind of conversation. Are you seeing on
the platform around that.
Speaker 6 (20:48):
I'm so glad you asked, because I think one of
the limiting beliefs in tropes is that stay at home
motherhood is a luxury. What we know is the decision
to pause is so nuanced, and actually one in three
parents choose to pause right now because of the cost
of caregiving. Right we know the cost or childcare is astronomical,
and so it's not a luxury on either side.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
It's a privilege to get to choose.
Speaker 6 (21:13):
And I think if we can embrace that, we start
to stop weaponizing privilege and really just start to think systemically.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
About how to support all choices. Do you know the
percentage of fathers that choose to pause versus mothers.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
It's rising, as you can imagine.
Speaker 6 (21:29):
It's one in five as of this year, according to Indeed,
and that number seems to be trending upward. As much
as I get frustrated now we're suddenly evaluing on paid
labor as soon as the number starts to take up
word when men pause for on paid labor, I think
there's a real opportunity when stay at home parenting becomes
(21:51):
less gendered and we can look at it as not
a women's issue, but a human issue.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
So I read that thirty percent of partnerships split over
household and childcare duties. It's a huge point of contention.
I'm so curious how you and your partner personally share
the responsibilities in your house.
Speaker 6 (22:12):
My partner and I had very deliberate conversations from very
early on, and I encourage you know, in the first
section of my book, The Power Pause really centered on
how to plan and how to plan with your partner
in the case of a two parent household, because it's
so important that both partners understand the value that you're contributing.
And think about if we're each putting in a workday
(22:35):
right from nine to five, and I'm at home when
he came home his quote unquote work Dan did and
so did mine, and from that point on, we're sharing
the household labor, right. I don't always think it was
fifty to fifty. I think it was fair and equitable,
and I think it was an ongoing conversation. We had
really deliberate conversations about where he could help because he
(22:57):
wasn't able to always be home, so he did all
of the paperwork, so he filled out the doctor's forms
because he was always in front of a computer and
I was on the playground, and we.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Recalibrate every year.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
I think it's important to also take into account that
when we sit down at the top of the year,
every January, we have our money meeting, and we will
look at the year behind us, We'll look at a
variety of different budget allocations and figure out, Okay, what
part did we do well on, and we make those
(23:28):
decisions jointly. And I think it's so important that even
though he was the one working for pay, we made
those decisions together. We budgeted together, and I did not
get a lesser budget because I was not working for pay.
I think he's doing a lot more now than I am, candidly,
and I think that's part of this whole conversation, is
(23:49):
that it's ever shifting.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
That's exactly where we're at right now.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Right now, my husband is taking care of the lion's
share of caregiving responsibilities, and that is I think that's
the most important thing that I've learned in my four
years thus far as a parent, is the need for
both of us to be flexible and that all of
this comes in seasons. Right now, he is the one
who is keeping stuff together at home and I'm out
(24:16):
at work. But that might change, you know, in the
next three to six months. And so I think when
you view it temporarily and not thinking like, oh, this
is our life now, this is going to be our
life forever, but just holding it a bit more loosely,
I think that allows you to extend more grace to
your partner too. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (24:35):
I always think the phrase right now helps, so you
can prioritize what's important for right now and sort of
recalibrate as you go.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Do you have a vision for how you want things
to look?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I would like my husband to do everything. No, I'm kidding. No,
I would like an equitable partnership.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
But I think.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
It seems when I interview people, when I hear people
like you talk about it, that flexibility is really the key.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
When you interview men on dates, you mean.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, when I interview men on dates, that's good exactly.
Speaker 6 (25:06):
I will tell you there were two things I took
into account when I married my husband. One, he was
a really fantastic cook. He's a doer, He's just a door.
I like to think of myself. I'm a good thinker.
I like to plan and strategize and overthink our problems,
and he's better at just getting stuff done. But he
also had a really short last name. As soon as
(25:28):
I met him, I was like, are you c H
versus y Lurker, which was my last name?
Speaker 1 (25:33):
And I was like, I'm you. You check the box.
Speaker 6 (25:36):
You're going to cook for our family and it's going
to be the world's shortest last name.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I was just thinking the other day, like, what if
I meet somebody and I love them and I hate
their last name, don't do it.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Yeah, you don't have to change the name though, folks, No.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
But like your kids that I don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
I guess there's a whole conversation to be had whether
we want to keep doing this. Yeh, that's like patriarchal lineage.
But another podcast.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
I'm of the opinion that I've been simone Voice for
I was like twenty three when I got married. I
was Simone Boys for twenty three years. Why do I
need to change names when it's no longer This like
something to mark this exchange of like feudal territories.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
But choice, it's all about choice.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
I love that you're always talking about choice, Nehu, because
choice is agency.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
You said something at the top of this interview that
I keep thinking about as we're talking. You said you
didn't want to feel like you didn't fit anymore. Why
did you personally feel like you didn't fit? And why
why do you see that among women more?
Speaker 1 (26:34):
You know, I think we.
Speaker 6 (26:36):
Are holding so many notions of what we should be,
and many of them sometimes are are in conflict with
one another, right, and so when we feel that tension,
when we're supposed to be strong and we're supposed to
be powerful, and we're supposed to also be feminine and
soft and kind, you know, a lot of that implodes.
(26:58):
And so I'll tell you, guys working at a tech
start running brand. When I had my first child in
a very male dominated tech sector, you had to sort
of take on one persona, and then in another sector,
when you're managing teams of young women, you have to
be another persona. And I was always sort of contorting
myself to fit the room. You know, I immigrated to
this country, immigrated to a predominantly white town, and I
(27:20):
remember in my teens purposefully imploding my math in science
scores or grading because I wanted to sort of upend
the idea that like all Indians were really good at
math and science, and I was partying hard, I was
just trying to fit and I left and I decided
to take a year off and I ended up traveling
(27:40):
for a year. And that year away really was so
powerful for me, and I think it really developed a
self trust and take in sort of parting with that path,
but really motherhood did that for me, and taking that
time to just be. And I think why we're so
exhausted is because we've had this very linear view of
and productivity. And when we start to sort of embrace
(28:04):
a softer view that's more of a portfolio of different
things we care about and different things we do, and
different things we need to move forward, then we start
to be able to really refocus on the things that
matter instead of holding it all so tightly.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
We're taking a quick break, and when we come back,
we're talking about the benefits of taking a step away
from work.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
We're back with Nyhush as a mom who is on
social media a lot and consumes a lot of mom
related social content. I want to make sure that we
also talk about the joy when you think back to
that time when you are fully at home and being
a mom for five years.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
What kind of joy did motherhood awaken in you?
Speaker 6 (28:54):
Motherhood gets such a bad pr there's boring parts of
every job, right, And I think you can accept that
and then you realize that there's an innocence and pure
joy that they glean from learning that if you can emulate,
it reignites that curiosity in you. And I think for
me a lot of that was through art and play
(29:18):
with them. I think I was always someone trying to
fit that I had sort of created a very specific
sort of persona, and my kids let me be silly again.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
So when this comes naturally to you.
Speaker 6 (29:31):
But I was not someone who just like danced around
a room, you know. I was so self conscious of that.
And kids, when you part with your ego because you
have to and they want you to, it unlocks something
a little bit more free.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
And as you were talking, I just thought about how
I feel like my kids are making me a better interviewer.
They're making me better at my job because kids always
ask the best questions, and it's just reminding me to
come from a place of genuine curiosity. I learned so
much from them all the time.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah, and I can also imagine talking to kids like
you really have to explain something clearly, so you probably
learn to be an even clearer communicator. I was laughing
as you were talking because my mom always said to
me she was a working mom, but she was like.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
You're a producer.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
I executive produced this family for thirty years. You're a founder.
I'm the CEO of this family, have been for thirty years.
Like moms are off Deana, they're like dermatologists, they're pediatricians,
they're all of the things. But I really think that Naha,
you're a huge part of this stay at home motherhood
community evolving.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
You've really created a movement. Is the book part of that.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I want you to talk about the power of Pause
and how you're thinking about this book.
Speaker 6 (30:51):
So The Power Pause comes out January fourteenth, twenty twenty five.
And I do think it is a stake in the
around to say it's time for the culture to re
examine the tropes around stay at home motherhood. And you know,
I think is one part a guide. It's the first
of its kind that really upends a lot of tropes
(31:12):
but walks a woman through how to plan, how to
walk through it with confidence and more ease and enjoyment.
How to then transition back and use this as a
time to explore and potentially return with confidence and enthusiasm.
But it's also a cultural call to action.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
I actually get several young, ambitious, career minded women who
come to me and they're like, I'm thinking about having
a family at one point. How do I navigate this?
Is there a right time? And I often point them
to you, to Mother Untitled, because I think you're such
a great resource. So whenever you encounter women like that
out in the wild who have questions about what this
(31:51):
looks like, what advice do you have for them?
Speaker 6 (31:54):
I think the first is to examine all the opportunities
that exist for them. It isn't so black and white.
That would be the first thing I would say. So,
you know, this is very industry dependent. I think some
industries are more flexible than others.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
As you know.
Speaker 6 (32:09):
I encourage women to seek out mentors who have done
this before, who have walked a myriad of different paths,
and think about what's available to them to allow them
to stay connected to their work if that's what they want,
or take a full pause and return. And the part
(32:30):
two is also to not make any decisions before having
really lived the experience of motherhood that I know so
many women who said I thought I was going to
stay at home, and actually I really felt called to return.
And I also know women on the inverse who said
I thought for sure I would return, and then I
felt really called to stay at home.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
So true.
Speaker 6 (32:52):
And also go through the financial budgeting as to what's
available to you in terms of taking a pause or
down shift. You know, one of the saddest things things
in this country is and the saddest messages I receive
are the women who write me two weeks postpartum saying
I think I want to do this, I don't know.
And my advice to them is, don't do anything until
(33:13):
you absolutely have to. No woman should have to make
this decision at six weeks postpartum. Unfortunately too many women do.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Gott to let the hormones balance out too. I would
just say, don't make any big decisions while.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Don't make any big decisions. Don't cut your hair.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Don't cut bangs, don't cut bangs during postpartum, don't.
Speaker 6 (33:33):
Cut banks, don't quit your jab just wait, get all
the data.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Naha.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Thank you so much for chatting with.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Us Thank you, na Oh, it was such a pleasure.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Nahal Rouche is the founder and CEO of Mother Untitled
and the author of The Power Pause, coming in twenty
twenty five. You can follow her on ig and TikTok
at Mother Untitled.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Simon.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
We have to take a moment to reflect on our
conversation with Neha because there was.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
A lot there, Danielle, I'm feeling really empowered by that
conversation with Neha.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
I feel the same way. She really gives people tools.
It's so actionable and tactical. It's not philosophical, you know.
I mean, I'm here for a total cultural societal redesign.
I don't think that domestic expectations and societal expectations have
caught up to where women are in the workforce. Like
(34:33):
we're effectively just doing more all of the time. But
in the meantime, Neha is giving people words, tools and
opportunities to work within the system we have, you know,
like this is what we're living right now.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Her message around living in the gray area, finding freedom
and liberation in the gray area is so important and empowering.
I love that she focus is on the right now.
I've always internalized this mantra about just do the next
right thing. And I think when you live that way,
(35:10):
you're able to hold your life and your goals and
your current situation in a much looser fashion and just
say like I'm being flexible in this moment, like maybe
this is the way that I'm doing things right now.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
Isn't going to last forever?
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yeah, that flexibility is really it's really just liberating. I
keep coming back to that word.
Speaker 6 (35:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
And I think you know, the word you used, empowering,
is so right too, because we just have the systemic
devaluation of women's time, both at home and at work,
and I really think NAHA is trying to combat that.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
I think the work that Neha is doing is really
heart centered and it makes a lot of women who
have previously been unseen feel seen and that is a
true gift.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Really well, so.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
All right, best to you tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
We are back at it with another edition of Asking
for a Friend with Friendship coach Danielle Buyer Jackson.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
Ooh, this was a good one.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
It really was. And that's it for today's show.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
So listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
I'm Simone Boye.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
You can find me at Simone Boye on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
That's Oro Bay.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
We'll see you tomorrow, folks,
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