March 3, 2025 • 38 mins
In 2022, corporate lawyer SC Perot was, like lots of us, still reeling from the pandemic. She was also navigating a major career change, having left her gig in big law to pursue her dream of teaching. And just in case that wasn’t enough, her marriage also ended. But during this difficult period of change, SC found help from an unexpected source… world-famous pop star, Harry Styles. After attending 17 Harry Styles concerts in five countries in ten months, SC shares what she learned from the superstar’s fandom about embracing the joy that’s all around us.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello Bessie's Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Today on the bright Side, we're talking to writer and
professor sc Pirot. She set out on a mission to
rediscover joy after a painful chapter in her life. Her
journey back to happiness was sparked by an unexpected source,
none other than pop icon Harry Styles. Tune in for
a story of healing, music and the power of joy.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It's Monday, March third. I'm Simone Boyce.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm Danielle Robey, and this is the bright Side from
Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
On my Mind. Monday is brought to you by Laurel Paris. Okay,
you know what time it is, Yes, ma'am. What's on
your mind today? Simone? Okay? Well, I got to give
a shout out to my man, Happy King, Arthur C. Brooks.
You know we love him. On the bright Side, so
he recently wrote a piece for The Atlantic called The
(00:54):
Benefit of Doing Things You're Bad at And as you
can imagine, it's all about embracing phil here.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Oh my god, I'm so bad at this?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Why why are you? Why do you say that?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I am such I don't even like to use the
word perfectionist, but I am. I hate doing things I'm
bad at I love being good at things, and I
just find it so difficult to do things you're bad at,
especially if you don't love them.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, okay, so I know this is hard for you
because you are good at a lot of things. I'm not, actually,
and I know you like to be good at a
lot of things. But when is the last time that
you felt like you did something that you were bad at?
Really out of my depth? Yeah, a few things.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
One I feel really out of my depth in the kitchen,
and I feel embarrassed that I'm out of my depth
there because I feel like I should.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Be good at it.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
And also anything that has to do with drawing. When
the last time you felt out of your depth?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Well, it's funny you should ask, because I recently started
taking singing lessons and I'm doing it with my friend Liz,
and it is so much fun to do it together.
And let me tell you, we are so bad. Our
first duet to use a word that I know you'll appreciate, Danielle,
was cacoffiness. Okay, it was surprisingly know that word. You
know this word? Yes, true sacking, But I love this
(02:18):
for you. What sparks this? Liz and I have always
been like, we don't want to work together because we
don't want to ruin our friendship because we've seen so
many friendships do that, right, like where you like go
you start working with someone and then you know, you
start fighting, things get messy, YadA YadA. But we love
(02:40):
like trying new things together, and so this year we
kind of made this commitment where we're just like, we're
we're just going to follow the fun, right, Like there's
no stakes here, there's no we're not doing this for
any reason or for a job or anything. We're just
doing it for fun. And after our first class, we
(03:00):
both walked out feeling so empowered. There were so many
benefits to it, Like first of all, all that great
breath work that you get during singing, true it makes
you feel so grounded in your body afterwards. And then
there's also just something incredibly freeing about just letting yourself
be awful at something and having a great time doing it.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Absolutely, I think this is so fun and I'm so
glad you shared this because I think it's inspiring. Yeah,
how so, I think it's a domino effect, Like to
do things as an adult that you did as a
kid is really really sol fulfilling if you can carve
out the time for it. I remember after the Olympics
(03:43):
this last summer, there was a spike in adult gymnastics
sign ups, like for classes.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, and I almost did it.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I love gymnastics as a kid, and it's like, I
just didn't carve out the time. So the fact that
you did carve out the time and you're doing it
with a friend, I think is so cool.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Well, honestly, all of this kind of ties right into
what Arthur Brooks was saying in that article. I mean,
his whole point is that doing something you're bad at
can actually make you better at things you're good at.
That's the part that I wasn't expecting. So what does
he mean. Well, if you're trying to be great at
a certain skill, he suggests you should flunk on something else. Like,
(04:21):
for example, a recent study of baseball players, they looked
at skilled pitchers, people who are typically poor hitters. They
were given batting practice, so they were, you know, kind
of placed out of their comfort zone and placed into
this new area where they where they felt this pressure
to excel, and then when they underperformed, scholars found that
(04:41):
the frustration that came from that inferior performance actually led
them to be more driven to improve their pitching. So
it's almost it's almost counterintuitive, but it's like it's circular.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I wonder what that is though, right, Yeah, that is
so strange. I do say, I think I can relate
on a surface level. I don't quite understand that study
because I'm like, what is being in the outfield have
to do with hitting? But if the King Arthur Brooks
says it, I believe him. But I do think that
(05:14):
if I feel writer's block or a creative block at all,
it's the only thing that gets my creative juice is going.
Is if I get out of that mode, I have
to go for a run or do something totally different,
go to the ocean, have a fun day, everything that
you think you're not supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Here's my theory. My theory is that failing in one
area where there's no stakes for you, there's less pressure
that sort of releases that pressure valve around the fear
of failure. And then I think releasing that pressure valve
and releasing yourself from the fear of failure actually facilitates
(05:54):
success in the area that you already excel in does
that make sense? That makes total sense?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Well, I gotta tell you, these singing lessons have brought
me so much joy. It's got me thinking about how
do I infuse my life with more joy? And when
I think about people who know how to do that, well,
I think about my friend sc Pro, who is today's
guest ess and I met at group therapy camp, which
I have spoken about a lot on this show, but
(06:21):
I wanted to bring her here on the show and
introduce her to you. Guys are besties because she has
this wild story about how she found joy after this
truly crushing, devastating period of grief. So in twenty twenty two,
sc went through this horrible divorce and no matter what
kind of coping mechanisms she tried, she just couldn't pull
(06:44):
herself out of that darkness.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And that's where her story takes an unexpected turn. All
I'm going to say is that Harry Styles is at
the center of it all.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
You're onto something there, Danielle. Her new book, Styles of Joy,
lays out this framework that we can all use to
find joy. And this is the same path that she
used to discover joy after going to seventeen Harry Styles
Concerts seventeen. We're going to break this all down for
you in the interview. At the end of the day,
I don't know that all of us have the means
or the time to pack up our lives and go
(07:15):
on tour with an artist and go to seventeen concerts.
But it's all about just leaning into the unexpected, all right, Chelle.
After the break our conversation with Scproro.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
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Speaker 1 (07:53):
Okay, welcome to the bright Side, sc Proro, Thank you
so much for having me, Essie. This has been a
long time coming. I was so profoundly moved by this book,
and I was just so inspired by your journey to joy.
So that's what we're going to get into today. Your
new book, Styles of Joy, chronicles this unexpected path to
(08:14):
discovering joy after overcoming insurmountable grief. You actually mentioned joy
over six hundred and fifty times in this book. Isn't
that wild.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
I love that fact.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
But before we get into how you rediscovered joy, we
really have to start with how you lost track of it.
So will you take us back to twenty twenty two.
You described that as the time when your life truly
fell apart.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
So I was navigating all of a sudden, so many
life changes at once. I think everyone can relate to
how disruptive the pandemic was for all of us. And
we all were navigating that grief process. And I also
stopped practicing big law, and I got out of the
wrong marriage, kind of all back to back. And I
(09:01):
say to people all the time, anyone that thinks divorce
is solely about two people is completely mistaken. You know,
I lost an entire family, a whole group of friends,
my house, my dog, let alone, my partner.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
The way that you wrote about divorce in your book
really illuminated this experience for me because I've never been
through it before. But the way that you retell your
experience helped me really understand what other people are going through.
You write that divorce is inherently lonely. Quote. My therapist
told me that even if I spent the rest of
(09:34):
my life recounting every single detail, going over every exchange
word she still could never and would never fully understand
because she hadn't lived it.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
I think it's lonely for so many reasons.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
You know. It's that line that you just said that
even if you spind and spin your wheels and try
to explain how you got there and how you're feeling now,
no one's walking it we you. And I think the
especially lonely element of that is that the closest person
to this heartbreak is now the furthest person away. The
(10:10):
one person that might be able to relate to what
you're feeling is offline because of the nature of the situation,
and all of a sudden, all these people that I
had so unabashedly woven into my life, you know, I
lost a bonus mom, a bonus dad, a bonus sister,
a bonus brother. I lost my nieces. I was grappling
(10:31):
with whether I was still an aunt, you know, and
it was so heartbreaking in.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
So many ways.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
And I write in the book that all of a sudden,
all these people in my life were on this kind
of like mental subcategory of people I cared about called
send good vibes, not text messages, you know, suddenly all
these people I loved were offline, and that was really
difficult to wrap my head around. And you can't move
(10:58):
forward unless you know where you are to go, and
that's a really lonely road too, And especially because I
was navigating a career pivot at the same time. I mean,
it was okay, where what are we building? Back brick
by brick in This New Life.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
In the book, you talk about some of the things
that you did to try to cope. You rite that
they weren't really helping. At what point did you realize
you needed to make a major shift.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
There were days I tried everything I knew to do.
You know.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
I was journaling, doing yoga, walking, talking to my lawyers,
crying of friends and family, browsing in the self help section.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I mean, like you name it, I was. I was
throwing it all at the wall.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
I was processing everything I was going through by going
on these long walks around the Town Lake Trail in
downtown Austin, Texas, which is where I was living at
the time. And I remember vividly typing good Energy in
on Spotify one day on these long walks because it
was like a cry for help to the algorithm. I'm like,
can we get some good energy up in here? It
(12:08):
is pretty grim, and I tell people all the time,
I'm like, and that's the saddest part of the story.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
We are on our way up.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
So everybody listening get ready to go on an adventure,
because this is where it really gets fun. You got
some help from this unexpected source, a world famous pop
star Harry Styles and his latest album, Harry's House.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Spotify fed me a playlist called Good Energy, and I
was like, oh, click, that's exactly what I want. And
Harry styles third album, Harry's House, came out two days
after I told my ex husband I wanted a divorce.
So the new music was sprinkled throughout this Good Energy
playlist and that's where the story begins.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
So what was it about that album, that music that
really clicked within you? Like, what was it that caused
that shift?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
I would like to get a wholehearted shout out to
a particular song music for a sushi restaurant.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Okay, so it's got one in particular.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I heard that song and I was on one of
my long walks and I was like, wait a second,
this is this is a tear dryer. This song is
a banger, and I all of a sudden, was seeking
that song out specifically. Now, music for a Sushi Restaurant
is perfectly situated as track one to start the entire
(13:29):
Harry's House album. So that's really how this started is
I was queueing up that good Vibe one song, and
all of a sudden, I was like, Harry Styles. I've
never really listened to Harry Styles. You know, I joke
I was a little too old for the one direction days.
I'm an in sync Backstreet Boys girly and I'm like,
Harry Styles, Okay, what else?
Speaker 3 (13:49):
What else does this guy got?
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Then I'm listening to just Harry's House, and I think
it's worth mentioning that it might be helpful for anyone
going through a breakup or a divorce or anything to
find something new. You know, this album, I had no
memories attached to it. It was just this fresh kind
of new energy in addition to being good energy. And
(14:13):
so I'm listening to that album and then I'm like,
wait a second, they're two more. It was like an
unwrapped Christmas present to find an artist that you loved
that I had never paid attention to. And you know,
fast forward I I'm really jumping ahead, but I saw
his show seventeen times in five countries and travel with
strangers I met along the way and had an entire
(14:34):
Harry Styles eat Prey love adventure, and that's what inspired
the book.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
So I love you and your story so much because
on the one hand, you're this You're this like serious person.
You're like a serious lawyer and a serious professor at Vanderbilt,
and you went through some serious stuff. You got a
divorce during the pandemic, and you moved cities, like that's
all serious life transition stuff. But on the other hand,
(15:03):
this book is deeply unserious. If I'm allowed to say that,
you know, like, we're talking about fangirling over a pop star.
So where are you at with wrapping your head around
that irony?
Speaker 4 (15:15):
I think it's really so exciting to just unabashedly reconcile
the two. Where did this narrative come from? That serious
lawyers also can't be super fans? Yes, why can't people
in academia also love something wholeheartedly? I'm so passionate about
(15:36):
exploring this dynamic of the stigma around being a fangirl
in general, because I do think it's so gender. You
know what's interesting is in the middle of the night
one night, I was like, I wonder how many games
any NFL team plays per season? Because I was thinking, like,
what if someone healed post of Wars, a man healed
post divorce by going to every single game of their
(15:59):
favorite NFL team. You know what the number is? Seventeen.
I started laughing so hard. I was like, it is
the exact number of shows I went to. And I
was like, that's so wild. But there's such an interesting,
I think gender element there. When this book was going
under legal review, I got to call one of my
(16:20):
former bosses and she's this total powerhouse partner at this
big firm and she's just the coolest and she got
on the phone with me. I had no idea. She
was like the ultimate Madonna superfan. She's like, I've seen
her thirty five times. I took two weeks off work
to be a showrunner for her Super Bowl halftime performance
(16:42):
years ago, and she said, this is the manifesto for
people like us who have a passion and get so
much flak for it, particularly in a male dominated workplace. Oh,
she's going to another Madonna show and she's like, you know,
what yeah, I am because I work super hard and
this brings me more joy than anything in the world.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
And I'm not sorry.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
You're so right, Like I so relate to this because
when I worked in news, I often felt like I
had to present a certain way, like I had to
be maintain this like straight laced news anchor persona, and
if I didn't, then my authority would be in question.
But it's such like a false binary that we've created,
(17:26):
and it doesn't serve us. When I saw Gail King
on the cover of Sports Illustrated, you know, at her
ripe age wearing this bikini in Mexico, looking super hot
and sexy, I was like, you know what, hell yeah,
hell yeah, she can do that, and she can go
on the news and she can tell us what's happening
in our world.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Es see, I want to hear more about that joy
that you're talking about. So you walk into this first
Harry Styles show and what happens, Like, what about that
experience sparked so much in you?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Interestingly, the first show was not that great. I think
people might expect. Oh, I saw one show. The rest
is history, Joy rediscovered, I gallivanted, and I was healed
That's really not how it went at all. I had
been listening to Harry Styles all day, every day, for which,
for the record, I don't even know how much I
(18:18):
was aware of that fact. You know, I was in
such intense grief that I kind of kept hitting play
on what I knew was working. But by the time
I got to this show, you know, I was there
with an acquaintance who invited me, and I kind of
was like, you know what, I will step outside of
my comfort zone. I had never previously been a fan
of big crowds. I would have told you I liked
(18:39):
live music, but the previous time I had traveled in
quotes for a show was forty minutes. Forty five minutes.
I mean, I was not the fangirl, you know, archetype,
And all of a sudden, I'm in this ocean of
inside jokes, Like people are doing choreography that is fan created.
(19:01):
People are, you know, holding up signs that make no
sense to a newcomer. You know, this is some deep subculture,
hardcore fandom at work. Everyone seemed to have a handbook
for this experience. And I'm thinking, I listened to a
lot of Harry's music. How do I not know what's
going on, and it made me so curious. So I
(19:21):
did these deep dives on TikTok and Instagram, and all
of a sudden, I already had an invite to a
second show to sit in the nosebleeds with all my
best girlfriends. And by the time I was at the
second show, I was like, Okay, so that's his drummer
down there, and she's married to the guitar player and
they met through the band.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Isn't that cute.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
It was like, the more I learned, the more I liked,
and I realized that Harry Styles is the ted Lasso
of the music industry. I mean, it's all kindness. It
is the sweetest culture.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
You come for Harry and you stay for the fans.
I think is a great way to put it.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
I love the way that you who approached each one
of these concerts and your conversations with the fans that
you met there. You actually almost treated it like an investigation,
not just an investigation into the fandom, but also introspectively,
like turning the questions in the lens on yourself. You
were asking yourself these hard hitting questions about joy, like
(20:20):
what is joy? Who has it? Who doesn't? Is it big?
Is it small? Is it permanent? Is it fleeting? What
did you learn from other fans through your investigation?
Speaker 4 (20:32):
It was so inspiring to me because I was new
to this world and I'm meeting people who have they've
been They've been in the Harry Styles orbit for thirteen years,
and I was wondering, you know, what does this mean
to you? I can tell you what this means to me,
but it's hard to pick a favorite.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
You know.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
I met a mother daughter duo outside of the Kia Forum.
I offered to take their photo. They offered to take
mine in front of this Harry Styles backdrop. I've talked
to them almost every single day since January of twenty
twenty three, like we are super close friends. They're driving
several hours to see me on book tour. We've gone
to other concerts together. One of my greatest takeaways about
(21:09):
joy is the relationship between joy and judgment.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
You know.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
That was a huge takeaway from me. And the opposite
of joyful is not joyless. It's judgmental, you know. I
write that so often we judge the what when we
don't know the why.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
I was getting mean.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Dms have you lost your mind, what the hell are
you doing? And on and on, and I just was
so grateful for these experiences and what they were doing
for me that it made me look around those concerts
and wonder, what does this mean to other people in
this room? And that really inspired this curiosity that you
(21:47):
alluded to.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Was there a turning point for you? When did you
discover you were coming out of your grief.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Harry has a song called Sign of the Times, and
the lyrics are stop your crying baby, It'll be all right.
And I had heard that song several times, but that
lyric just didn't land yet because I just I was like, no,
I'm in the thick of it, you know, I'm not
feeling like it's time to kind of stop this grief,
which is what that lyric kind of sounded like to me.
(22:16):
But all of a sudden, we're at the final show.
I'm I'm with someone I met in a bathroom line
who had extra tickets, and I'm hearing Harry Styles saying,
stop your crying baby, It'll be all right, at the
biggest show of his career, at the end of this adventure,
and the sky's opened up and it started pouring rain,
(22:36):
at the same time, the fireworks are all going off.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
It was not in the forecast.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
It was this total freak thing, and I mean everyone
is losing it. It was the most cinematic moment of
my entire life. And as people are splashing and screaming
and pulling out their phones and dancing and like in
total shock, you know, I'm standing there as still as
a statue, and all of a sudden, I had this
of Oh, I did it, and I ran this race.
(23:06):
And that was about thirteen months post separation, and it
really felt like my life can be bifurcated into you know,
pre Wimbley in the rain and post Wimbley in the rain.
And it was such a turning point for me, the
biggest show, the biggest crescendo. I was leaving the next
day to go back to the States after this unexpected
(23:27):
thirty days with hardly anything with me and traveling with
strangers and kind of rolling with it and having this
unexpected journey. And it's called the finale in the book
for multiple reasons.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
So you said that you can't explain why it was
that that moment was so transformative, But I just want
to probe a little bit further, like, why do you think,
why was it that moment that changed everything?
Speaker 4 (23:52):
I think it's because I was in this season of
such identity stripping. I was no longer a lawyer, I
was no longer a wife, I was no longer a
daughter in law, sister in law, and you know, I
was no longer So and So's neighbor. You know, so
many identities in my life were changing or getting stripped away.
(24:14):
I think one of those transformative elements of going to
these concerts is that the vast majority of them, I
was an anonymous stranger in a crowd, and it's like
I had the interest to go even further in the
context of identity stripping. So if all these things that
(24:36):
I that were billed as mattering so much, career and
being married and all these things, if all that's gone,
but now no one knows or cares where I'm from,
what I do or used to do, where I went
to school or didn't, what I have or don't have,
or know, or who I don't know, None of it matters,
(24:56):
and everything fades away. It made me ask myself, who
am I in every single room I walk into? And
I think I was beginning to really reap the benefit
of that level of introspection. I had begun to be really,
really thoughtful and reflective about just the value of these
experiences and how they bullied my spirits and really what
(25:20):
I learned again about kindness and identity and joy and grief.
And so it was the most cinematic curtain call of
this story when he's singing, stop your crying, baby, It'll
be all right. And I'm with these strangers that I
met in a bathroom, you know, like with dancing with
women from all over the world, as these fireworks are
(25:42):
going off in Wimbley, the most iconic venue in his
home country, and it was just this wash.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Of deep peace.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
And I write in the book that there's no such
thing as a grief guillotine.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
It doesn't just end.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
It's not like you turn a light back on in
life when you're ready to live in color again and
no longer in black and white. But it's like it's
on a patient dimmer where slowly the lights are coming
back on, and it marks the pivot from saying I
know I'm going to be okay, or I'm going to
be okay, and it's such a slight shift into actually
(26:22):
I am okay, Yeah, And for me, that moment was
that shift.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
It's time for another short break, but we'll be right
back to our conversation with sc Proroh, and we're back
with sc PROO.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
As I think about the identity stripping that you mentioned
and I look back on my own life, I think
the greatest blessing of aging has been the realization that
becoming the process of becoming is not about adding. It's
about subtracting, and it's about liberating yourself from the judgment
from your own doubts. That's so powerful. It feels like
(27:09):
in that moment you fully allowed yourself to like reset
and accept where you were.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
In that moment absolutely, and there was going back to
this theme of judgment. There was such a point of
pride for me that I was trusting my instincts. I mean,
former me would be like, sorry, what are.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
We doing right?
Speaker 3 (27:31):
And I'm like you, no, we're rolling with it.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
And again it's it's made me so passionate about joy
in whatever form it shows up in our lives, because
so often it doesn't. I am now like a fangirl
for fans, Like if you're a big fan of something,
I'm like I will ride or die for that thing.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
You say, Renaissance fairs.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
I'm like, pass me a turkey, like baby, let's roll
like I let's go oh, Star Wars, online forums, these
things are important, and I'll be I'll be honest. I
used to judge Disney adults. I didn't get it. I'm like,
where are you going to Disney without kids? I don't
get it? And I asked a friend of mine. I said,
(28:17):
all right, can you explain this Disney adult thing to me?
And she said, you know, a couple of years ago,
I lost my dad to cancer, and Disney is where
we have all of our best family memories. And I
go back to Disney to feel closest to my dad.
And I'm thinking, so often we judge the what when
(28:38):
we don't know the why. And we never know what
difficult walks someone is walking, you know, we never know
the role that music, or a sports team, or a
certain hobby or passion. We don't know what function that's
playing in their life. And I just invite a listener
to think about being not only gentler with other people
(29:00):
about passions and hobbies and interests, but also learning how
to give yourself grace is such an amazing practice as well.
I so easily could have been like, all right, sc
you've lost your damn mind because you have a cardboard
cutout of a pop star in your house.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
You've lost it.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
But you know what, that cardboard cutout of Harry Styles
made me laugh harder for the six months that I
owned it with my friends. It gave me more joy
because it was so ridiculous. And if something is not
harming you or anyone else, I say, let's go.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
I like the idea.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I am curious where you're at with it now in hindsight, Like,
will you be going to more Harry Styles concerts in
the future.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Yes, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
There is nothing in life I am looking forward to
more than Harry's Next to her, I truly cannot wait.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Amazing.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Asked about what.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Was it was?
Speaker 4 (30:02):
It came for Harry, stayed for the fans, and you know,
I want to give Harry's Styles a lot of credit
for so. I teach in the human and organizational development
at Vanderbilt University, and if you ask me, what's the
overlap between what you learned at these Hairy Styles concerts
and what you teach your students. Is a concept that
(30:24):
I would call psychological safety. When people feel safe to
be themselves. Data shows that the most beautiful things result.
There's openness, kindness, confidence, and all these things. And it's
something we talk about as a department, is how can
we make students feel comfortable to share in class, knowing
their opinions are valuable and so forth. And when I
(30:47):
heard that phrase when I started teaching at the university,
I thought, Oh, that's the secret sauce at a hairy
concert is people feel safe to be creative and zany
and funny and emotional. People feel free to cry at
the barricade to their favorite song that has moved them
for who knows what reason. And I think that's really
(31:10):
really powerful and worth mentioning. Harry Styles says, at every concert,
I hope you feel you can be in this room
who you've always wanted to be. What a beautiful invitation
that you can show up and be yourself.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Well, after all that you experienced, does see all the
changes you made to your life, all the concerts, all
the bathroom conversations, you created this framework for finding joy.
And the framework is cultivate, adopt, protect, spread. With the
time that we have left in this conversation, I want
to focus on adopting. What I love about the way
(31:49):
that you laid out this framework is that you punctuate
each phase with this series of truly magical questions. And
there's a question that really stuck out to me in
the adopt section, and you said, are you internalizing other victories, joys,
and wins and allowing them to bring you joy to
are you making others joy your own in a time
(32:12):
where some people are finding it hard to cultivate joy.
Can you give us a roadmap as to how we
can adopt the joy of others as our own.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
In a season of such significant loss, My spirits were
so buoyed by watching other people succeed and have fun
and so forth. And I introduced this idea of joy
in the wild and looking for joy in the wild, because,
like you said, sometimes cultivating joy in your own life
can feel like a challenge. You know, maybe grief is
(32:41):
your barrier to that, or whatever hardship it may be
for me. I started looking very closely at the world
around me in this season of rebuilding, and I found
that the more keenly observant I was, especially out in public,
the happier I was so. For example, at these Harry
Styles concerts, I'm looking at strangers offering to take each
(33:05):
other's photos. And my favorite example is girls were tying
together feather boas to make one giant feather boa and
they were using it to jump rope with strangers to
kill time before a concert started. And I was sitting
there and I was like, there, it is joy in
the wild.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
You know.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
The other day I was in Trader Joe's and I
could tell it was two best friends grocery shopping together,
and they went aisle by aisle with their carts side
by side, and they were commentating, have you tried those crackers?
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Have you tried that?
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Wait?
Speaker 4 (33:39):
This hummus is the best, And didn't. I wasn't trying
to eavesdrop, but I could tell that, like that's what
they were doing. And they were laughing, and they were
like product recommending and they were having the best time.
They We were kind of on the same schedule, I guess,
because I saw them in the parking lot.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Their cars were parked side by side. They gave each
other the biggest bear hugs after they loaded their cars
with their respective groceries. And I was sitting there and
I was like, I was having the worst day, and
I thought to myself, there it is joy in the
wild A friendship date to Trader Joe's. So again, when
cultivating joy in.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
Your own life feels like a bit of a stretch,
you know that, And that's something I can relate to.
That really was so life giving, and after I've trained
my eye to look for it, it's such a contagious
way to live.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
And that speaks to the power of finding joy in
the mundane too. Joy doesn't have to look like, you know,
an extravagant trip to Europe to go see a concert
for people who don't have the means, let's say, but
it's all around us if we train our to look,
which is what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Absolutely in the spirit of sharing joy, You've created Joy Hotline,
which is a place for people to call in and
share their moments of joy. What are some of the
great things that people have called in to share?
Speaker 4 (34:57):
I am so glad you asked. I started the Joy
Hotline this past summer. I was teaching a class for
Vanderbilt and New York City and I had this idea
as I was thinking about the big question, what brings
you joy?
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Why is that simple question so challenging for people to answer.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
I'm so surprised by how often people say, I don't
know what brings me joy, and I don't know what
I like anymore. So I thought, you know what, let's
pull the people. So I made thousands of stickers and
put them all over New York with the Joy Hotline
phone number, and it says what brings you joy? And
I was shocked by how many voicemails I got. I
thought people would just text it. And one of my favorites,
(35:36):
this girl, called in and she said, Hey, I just
found your sticker in Madison Square Park. And what brings
me joy is Brazilian music and when my mom's really happy.
I also love that feeling when you're at a party
and you look around and no one's on their phone
because people are deeply present. And I also love catching
(35:57):
up with old friends. And anyway, thank you so much
for giving me a reason to reflect on joy. Thanks
Joy Hotline.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
I mean it just melted me.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
And one of my other favorites someone said this week,
I trained my dog to smile in this really goofy
picture of their dog with the cheesiest smile. And one
of my other favorite voicemails. It was two Vanderbilt girls,
because the stickers are all over Vanderbilt too, And this
girl goes, Hey, Joy hotline. What brings me joy is
(36:31):
walking to Dunkin Donuts with my roommate because I love
my roommate. And the second girl, the roommate, is also
on the voicemail and she goes, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
That is so nice. I love you too. You bring
me so much joy.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
And they proceed to have a conversation about their friendship
on the Joy hotline and I'm just it brings me
crazy joy when people hit up the Joy hotline.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Well, I am certainly feeling less judgmental and a lot
more joyful. All thanks to USSI, thanks so much for
joining us on the bright side today.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
This was the most fun. Thank you both.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Thanks for your dose of joy.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Scproro is a professor at Vanderbilt University and the author
of Styles of Joy, a feel good framework for rediscovering
joy with a twist.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, Kat Kantas is with us.
She's the co founder of the tequila brand twenty one Seeds,
and she's going to share some of her incredible entrepreneurial insight.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect
with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram
and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and
feel free to tag us at Simone Boyce and at
Danielle Robe.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.
Hello Bessie's Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Today on the bright Side, we're talking to writer and
professor sc Pirot. She set out on a mission to
rediscover joy after a painful chapter in her life. Her
journey back to happiness was sparked by an unexpected source,
none other than pop icon Harry Styles. Tune in for
a story of healing, music and the power of joy.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
It's Monday, March third. I'm Simone Boyce.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm Danielle Robey, and this is the bright Side from
Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
On my Mind. Monday is brought to you by Laurel Paris. Okay,
you know what time it is, Yes, ma'am. What's on
your mind today? Simone? Okay? Well, I got to give
a shout out to my man, Happy King, Arthur C. Brooks.
You know we love him. On the bright Side, so
he recently wrote a piece for The Atlantic called The
(00:54):
Benefit of Doing Things You're Bad at And as you
can imagine, it's all about embracing phil here.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Oh my god, I'm so bad at this?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Why why are you? Why do you say that?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I am such I don't even like to use the
word perfectionist, but I am. I hate doing things I'm
bad at I love being good at things, and I
just find it so difficult to do things you're bad at,
especially if you don't love them.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, okay, so I know this is hard for you
because you are good at a lot of things. I'm not, actually,
and I know you like to be good at a
lot of things. But when is the last time that
you felt like you did something that you were bad at?
Really out of my depth? Yeah, a few things.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
One I feel really out of my depth in the kitchen,
and I feel embarrassed that I'm out of my depth
there because I feel like I should.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Be good at it.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
And also anything that has to do with drawing. When
the last time you felt out of your depth?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Well, it's funny you should ask, because I recently started
taking singing lessons and I'm doing it with my friend Liz,
and it is so much fun to do it together.
And let me tell you, we are so bad. Our
first duet to use a word that I know you'll appreciate, Danielle,
was cacoffiness. Okay, it was surprisingly know that word. You
know this word? Yes, true sacking, But I love this
(02:18):
for you. What sparks this? Liz and I have always
been like, we don't want to work together because we
don't want to ruin our friendship because we've seen so
many friendships do that, right, like where you like go
you start working with someone and then you know, you
start fighting, things get messy, YadA YadA. But we love
(02:40):
like trying new things together, and so this year we
kind of made this commitment where we're just like, we're
we're just going to follow the fun, right, Like there's
no stakes here, there's no we're not doing this for
any reason or for a job or anything. We're just
doing it for fun. And after our first class, we
(03:00):
both walked out feeling so empowered. There were so many
benefits to it, Like first of all, all that great
breath work that you get during singing, true it makes
you feel so grounded in your body afterwards. And then
there's also just something incredibly freeing about just letting yourself
be awful at something and having a great time doing it.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Absolutely, I think this is so fun and I'm so
glad you shared this because I think it's inspiring. Yeah,
how so, I think it's a domino effect, Like to
do things as an adult that you did as a
kid is really really sol fulfilling if you can carve
out the time for it. I remember after the Olympics
(03:43):
this last summer, there was a spike in adult gymnastics
sign ups, like for classes.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, and I almost did it.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I love gymnastics as a kid, and it's like, I
just didn't carve out the time. So the fact that
you did carve out the time and you're doing it
with a friend, I think is so cool.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Well, honestly, all of this kind of ties right into
what Arthur Brooks was saying in that article. I mean,
his whole point is that doing something you're bad at
can actually make you better at things you're good at.
That's the part that I wasn't expecting. So what does
he mean. Well, if you're trying to be great at
a certain skill, he suggests you should flunk on something else. Like,
(04:21):
for example, a recent study of baseball players, they looked
at skilled pitchers, people who are typically poor hitters. They
were given batting practice, so they were, you know, kind
of placed out of their comfort zone and placed into
this new area where they where they felt this pressure
to excel, and then when they underperformed, scholars found that
(04:41):
the frustration that came from that inferior performance actually led
them to be more driven to improve their pitching. So
it's almost it's almost counterintuitive, but it's like it's circular.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I wonder what that is though, right, Yeah, that is
so strange. I do say, I think I can relate
on a surface level. I don't quite understand that study
because I'm like, what is being in the outfield have
to do with hitting? But if the King Arthur Brooks
says it, I believe him. But I do think that
(05:14):
if I feel writer's block or a creative block at all,
it's the only thing that gets my creative juice is going.
Is if I get out of that mode, I have
to go for a run or do something totally different,
go to the ocean, have a fun day, everything that
you think you're not supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Here's my theory. My theory is that failing in one
area where there's no stakes for you, there's less pressure
that sort of releases that pressure valve around the fear
of failure. And then I think releasing that pressure valve
and releasing yourself from the fear of failure actually facilitates
(05:54):
success in the area that you already excel in does
that make sense? That makes total sense?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Well, I gotta tell you, these singing lessons have brought
me so much joy. It's got me thinking about how
do I infuse my life with more joy? And when
I think about people who know how to do that, well,
I think about my friend sc Pro, who is today's
guest ess and I met at group therapy camp, which
I have spoken about a lot on this show, but
(06:21):
I wanted to bring her here on the show and
introduce her to you. Guys are besties because she has
this wild story about how she found joy after this
truly crushing, devastating period of grief. So in twenty twenty two,
sc went through this horrible divorce and no matter what
kind of coping mechanisms she tried, she just couldn't pull
(06:44):
herself out of that darkness.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And that's where her story takes an unexpected turn. All
I'm going to say is that Harry Styles is at
the center of it all.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
You're onto something there, Danielle. Her new book, Styles of Joy,
lays out this framework that we can all use to
find joy. And this is the same path that she
used to discover joy after going to seventeen Harry Styles
Concerts seventeen. We're going to break this all down for
you in the interview. At the end of the day,
I don't know that all of us have the means
or the time to pack up our lives and go
(07:15):
on tour with an artist and go to seventeen concerts.
But it's all about just leaning into the unexpected, all right, Chelle.
After the break our conversation with Scproro.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Thanks to our partners at Loriel Paris, because you're worth it.
From skincare to hair care and everything in between. Loriel
Paris delivers expert back beauty that empowers confidence. Discover your
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Speaker 1 (07:53):
Okay, welcome to the bright Side, sc Proro, Thank you
so much for having me, Essie. This has been a
long time coming. I was so profoundly moved by this book,
and I was just so inspired by your journey to joy.
So that's what we're going to get into today. Your
new book, Styles of Joy, chronicles this unexpected path to
(08:14):
discovering joy after overcoming insurmountable grief. You actually mentioned joy
over six hundred and fifty times in this book. Isn't
that wild.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
I love that fact.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
But before we get into how you rediscovered joy, we
really have to start with how you lost track of it.
So will you take us back to twenty twenty two.
You described that as the time when your life truly
fell apart.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
So I was navigating all of a sudden, so many
life changes at once. I think everyone can relate to
how disruptive the pandemic was for all of us. And
we all were navigating that grief process. And I also
stopped practicing big law, and I got out of the
wrong marriage, kind of all back to back. And I
(09:01):
say to people all the time, anyone that thinks divorce
is solely about two people is completely mistaken. You know,
I lost an entire family, a whole group of friends,
my house, my dog, let alone, my partner.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
The way that you wrote about divorce in your book
really illuminated this experience for me because I've never been
through it before. But the way that you retell your
experience helped me really understand what other people are going through.
You write that divorce is inherently lonely. Quote. My therapist
told me that even if I spent the rest of
(09:34):
my life recounting every single detail, going over every exchange
word she still could never and would never fully understand
because she hadn't lived it.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
I think it's lonely for so many reasons.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
You know. It's that line that you just said that
even if you spind and spin your wheels and try
to explain how you got there and how you're feeling now,
no one's walking it we you. And I think the
especially lonely element of that is that the closest person
to this heartbreak is now the furthest person away. The
(10:10):
one person that might be able to relate to what
you're feeling is offline because of the nature of the situation,
and all of a sudden, all these people that I
had so unabashedly woven into my life, you know, I
lost a bonus mom, a bonus dad, a bonus sister,
a bonus brother. I lost my nieces. I was grappling
(10:31):
with whether I was still an aunt, you know, and
it was so heartbreaking in.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
So many ways.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
And I write in the book that all of a sudden,
all these people in my life were on this kind
of like mental subcategory of people I cared about called
send good vibes, not text messages, you know, suddenly all
these people I loved were offline, and that was really
difficult to wrap my head around. And you can't move
(10:58):
forward unless you know where you are to go, and
that's a really lonely road too, And especially because I
was navigating a career pivot at the same time. I mean,
it was okay, where what are we building? Back brick
by brick in This New Life.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
In the book, you talk about some of the things
that you did to try to cope. You rite that
they weren't really helping. At what point did you realize
you needed to make a major shift.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
There were days I tried everything I knew to do.
You know.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
I was journaling, doing yoga, walking, talking to my lawyers,
crying of friends and family, browsing in the self help section.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I mean, like you name it, I was. I was
throwing it all at the wall.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
I was processing everything I was going through by going
on these long walks around the Town Lake Trail in
downtown Austin, Texas, which is where I was living at
the time. And I remember vividly typing good Energy in
on Spotify one day on these long walks because it
was like a cry for help to the algorithm. I'm like,
can we get some good energy up in here? It
(12:08):
is pretty grim, and I tell people all the time,
I'm like, and that's the saddest part of the story.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
We are on our way up.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
So everybody listening get ready to go on an adventure,
because this is where it really gets fun. You got
some help from this unexpected source, a world famous pop
star Harry Styles and his latest album, Harry's House.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Spotify fed me a playlist called Good Energy, and I
was like, oh, click, that's exactly what I want. And
Harry styles third album, Harry's House, came out two days
after I told my ex husband I wanted a divorce.
So the new music was sprinkled throughout this Good Energy
playlist and that's where the story begins.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
So what was it about that album, that music that
really clicked within you? Like, what was it that caused
that shift?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
I would like to get a wholehearted shout out to
a particular song music for a sushi restaurant.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Okay, so it's got one in particular.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I heard that song and I was on one of
my long walks and I was like, wait a second,
this is this is a tear dryer. This song is
a banger, and I all of a sudden, was seeking
that song out specifically. Now, music for a Sushi Restaurant
is perfectly situated as track one to start the entire
(13:29):
Harry's House album. So that's really how this started is
I was queueing up that good Vibe one song, and
all of a sudden, I was like, Harry Styles. I've
never really listened to Harry Styles. You know, I joke
I was a little too old for the one direction days.
I'm an in sync Backstreet Boys girly and I'm like,
Harry Styles, Okay, what else?
Speaker 3 (13:49):
What else does this guy got?
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Then I'm listening to just Harry's House, and I think
it's worth mentioning that it might be helpful for anyone
going through a breakup or a divorce or anything to
find something new. You know, this album, I had no
memories attached to it. It was just this fresh kind
of new energy in addition to being good energy. And
(14:13):
so I'm listening to that album and then I'm like,
wait a second, they're two more. It was like an
unwrapped Christmas present to find an artist that you loved
that I had never paid attention to. And you know,
fast forward I I'm really jumping ahead, but I saw
his show seventeen times in five countries and travel with
strangers I met along the way and had an entire
(14:34):
Harry Styles eat Prey love adventure, and that's what inspired
the book.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
So I love you and your story so much because
on the one hand, you're this You're this like serious person.
You're like a serious lawyer and a serious professor at Vanderbilt,
and you went through some serious stuff. You got a
divorce during the pandemic, and you moved cities, like that's
all serious life transition stuff. But on the other hand,
(15:03):
this book is deeply unserious. If I'm allowed to say that,
you know, like, we're talking about fangirling over a pop star.
So where are you at with wrapping your head around
that irony?
Speaker 4 (15:15):
I think it's really so exciting to just unabashedly reconcile
the two. Where did this narrative come from? That serious
lawyers also can't be super fans? Yes, why can't people
in academia also love something wholeheartedly? I'm so passionate about
(15:36):
exploring this dynamic of the stigma around being a fangirl
in general, because I do think it's so gender. You
know what's interesting is in the middle of the night
one night, I was like, I wonder how many games
any NFL team plays per season? Because I was thinking, like,
what if someone healed post of Wars, a man healed
post divorce by going to every single game of their
(15:59):
favorite NFL team. You know what the number is? Seventeen.
I started laughing so hard. I was like, it is
the exact number of shows I went to. And I
was like, that's so wild. But there's such an interesting,
I think gender element there. When this book was going
under legal review, I got to call one of my
(16:20):
former bosses and she's this total powerhouse partner at this
big firm and she's just the coolest and she got
on the phone with me. I had no idea. She
was like the ultimate Madonna superfan. She's like, I've seen
her thirty five times. I took two weeks off work
to be a showrunner for her Super Bowl halftime performance
(16:42):
years ago, and she said, this is the manifesto for
people like us who have a passion and get so
much flak for it, particularly in a male dominated workplace. Oh,
she's going to another Madonna show and she's like, you know,
what yeah, I am because I work super hard and
this brings me more joy than anything in the world.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
And I'm not sorry.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
You're so right, Like I so relate to this because
when I worked in news, I often felt like I
had to present a certain way, like I had to
be maintain this like straight laced news anchor persona, and
if I didn't, then my authority would be in question.
But it's such like a false binary that we've created,
(17:26):
and it doesn't serve us. When I saw Gail King
on the cover of Sports Illustrated, you know, at her
ripe age wearing this bikini in Mexico, looking super hot
and sexy, I was like, you know what, hell yeah,
hell yeah, she can do that, and she can go
on the news and she can tell us what's happening
in our world.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Es see, I want to hear more about that joy
that you're talking about. So you walk into this first
Harry Styles show and what happens, Like, what about that
experience sparked so much in you?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Interestingly, the first show was not that great. I think
people might expect. Oh, I saw one show. The rest
is history, Joy rediscovered, I gallivanted, and I was healed
That's really not how it went at all. I had
been listening to Harry Styles all day, every day, for which,
for the record, I don't even know how much I
(18:18):
was aware of that fact. You know, I was in
such intense grief that I kind of kept hitting play
on what I knew was working. But by the time
I got to this show, you know, I was there
with an acquaintance who invited me, and I kind of
was like, you know what, I will step outside of
my comfort zone. I had never previously been a fan
of big crowds. I would have told you I liked
(18:39):
live music, but the previous time I had traveled in
quotes for a show was forty minutes. Forty five minutes.
I mean, I was not the fangirl, you know, archetype,
And all of a sudden, I'm in this ocean of
inside jokes, Like people are doing choreography that is fan created.
(19:01):
People are, you know, holding up signs that make no
sense to a newcomer. You know, this is some deep subculture,
hardcore fandom at work. Everyone seemed to have a handbook
for this experience. And I'm thinking, I listened to a
lot of Harry's music. How do I not know what's
going on, and it made me so curious. So I
(19:21):
did these deep dives on TikTok and Instagram, and all
of a sudden, I already had an invite to a
second show to sit in the nosebleeds with all my
best girlfriends. And by the time I was at the
second show, I was like, Okay, so that's his drummer
down there, and she's married to the guitar player and
they met through the band.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Isn't that cute.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
It was like, the more I learned, the more I liked,
and I realized that Harry Styles is the ted Lasso
of the music industry. I mean, it's all kindness. It
is the sweetest culture.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
You come for Harry and you stay for the fans.
I think is a great way to put it.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
I love the way that you who approached each one
of these concerts and your conversations with the fans that
you met there. You actually almost treated it like an investigation,
not just an investigation into the fandom, but also introspectively,
like turning the questions in the lens on yourself. You
were asking yourself these hard hitting questions about joy, like
(20:20):
what is joy? Who has it? Who doesn't? Is it big?
Is it small? Is it permanent? Is it fleeting? What
did you learn from other fans through your investigation?
Speaker 4 (20:32):
It was so inspiring to me because I was new
to this world and I'm meeting people who have they've
been They've been in the Harry Styles orbit for thirteen years,
and I was wondering, you know, what does this mean
to you? I can tell you what this means to me,
but it's hard to pick a favorite.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
You know.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
I met a mother daughter duo outside of the Kia Forum.
I offered to take their photo. They offered to take
mine in front of this Harry Styles backdrop. I've talked
to them almost every single day since January of twenty
twenty three, like we are super close friends. They're driving
several hours to see me on book tour. We've gone
to other concerts together. One of my greatest takeaways about
(21:09):
joy is the relationship between joy and judgment.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
You know.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
That was a huge takeaway from me. And the opposite
of joyful is not joyless. It's judgmental, you know. I
write that so often we judge the what when we
don't know the why.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
I was getting mean.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Dms have you lost your mind, what the hell are
you doing? And on and on, and I just was
so grateful for these experiences and what they were doing
for me that it made me look around those concerts
and wonder, what does this mean to other people in
this room? And that really inspired this curiosity that you
(21:47):
alluded to.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Was there a turning point for you? When did you
discover you were coming out of your grief.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Harry has a song called Sign of the Times, and
the lyrics are stop your crying baby, It'll be all right.
And I had heard that song several times, but that
lyric just didn't land yet because I just I was like, no,
I'm in the thick of it, you know, I'm not
feeling like it's time to kind of stop this grief,
which is what that lyric kind of sounded like to me.
(22:16):
But all of a sudden, we're at the final show.
I'm I'm with someone I met in a bathroom line
who had extra tickets, and I'm hearing Harry Styles saying,
stop your crying baby, It'll be all right, at the
biggest show of his career, at the end of this adventure,
and the sky's opened up and it started pouring rain,
(22:36):
at the same time, the fireworks are all going off.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
It was not in the forecast.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
It was this total freak thing, and I mean everyone
is losing it. It was the most cinematic moment of
my entire life. And as people are splashing and screaming
and pulling out their phones and dancing and like in
total shock, you know, I'm standing there as still as
a statue, and all of a sudden, I had this
of Oh, I did it, and I ran this race.
(23:06):
And that was about thirteen months post separation, and it
really felt like my life can be bifurcated into you know,
pre Wimbley in the rain and post Wimbley in the rain.
And it was such a turning point for me, the
biggest show, the biggest crescendo. I was leaving the next
day to go back to the States after this unexpected
(23:27):
thirty days with hardly anything with me and traveling with
strangers and kind of rolling with it and having this
unexpected journey. And it's called the finale in the book
for multiple reasons.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
So you said that you can't explain why it was
that that moment was so transformative, But I just want
to probe a little bit further, like, why do you think,
why was it that moment that changed everything?
Speaker 4 (23:52):
I think it's because I was in this season of
such identity stripping. I was no longer a lawyer, I
was no longer a wife, I was no longer a
daughter in law, sister in law, and you know, I
was no longer So and So's neighbor. You know, so
many identities in my life were changing or getting stripped away.
(24:14):
I think one of those transformative elements of going to
these concerts is that the vast majority of them, I
was an anonymous stranger in a crowd, and it's like
I had the interest to go even further in the
context of identity stripping. So if all these things that
(24:36):
I that were billed as mattering so much, career and
being married and all these things, if all that's gone,
but now no one knows or cares where I'm from,
what I do or used to do, where I went
to school or didn't, what I have or don't have,
or know, or who I don't know, None of it matters,
(24:56):
and everything fades away. It made me ask myself, who
am I in every single room I walk into? And
I think I was beginning to really reap the benefit
of that level of introspection. I had begun to be really,
really thoughtful and reflective about just the value of these
experiences and how they bullied my spirits and really what
(25:20):
I learned again about kindness and identity and joy and grief.
And so it was the most cinematic curtain call of
this story when he's singing, stop your crying, baby, It'll
be all right. And I'm with these strangers that I
met in a bathroom, you know, like with dancing with
women from all over the world, as these fireworks are
(25:42):
going off in Wimbley, the most iconic venue in his
home country, and it was just this wash.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Of deep peace.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
And I write in the book that there's no such
thing as a grief guillotine.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
It doesn't just end.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
It's not like you turn a light back on in
life when you're ready to live in color again and
no longer in black and white. But it's like it's
on a patient dimmer where slowly the lights are coming
back on, and it marks the pivot from saying I
know I'm going to be okay, or I'm going to
be okay, and it's such a slight shift into actually
(26:22):
I am okay, Yeah, And for me, that moment was
that shift.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
It's time for another short break, but we'll be right
back to our conversation with sc Proroh, and we're back
with sc PROO.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
As I think about the identity stripping that you mentioned
and I look back on my own life, I think
the greatest blessing of aging has been the realization that
becoming the process of becoming is not about adding. It's
about subtracting, and it's about liberating yourself from the judgment
from your own doubts. That's so powerful. It feels like
(27:09):
in that moment you fully allowed yourself to like reset
and accept where you were.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
In that moment absolutely, and there was going back to
this theme of judgment. There was such a point of
pride for me that I was trusting my instincts. I mean,
former me would be like, sorry, what are.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
We doing right?
Speaker 3 (27:31):
And I'm like you, no, we're rolling with it.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
And again it's it's made me so passionate about joy
in whatever form it shows up in our lives, because
so often it doesn't. I am now like a fangirl
for fans, Like if you're a big fan of something,
I'm like I will ride or die for that thing.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
You say, Renaissance fairs.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
I'm like, pass me a turkey, like baby, let's roll
like I let's go oh, Star Wars, online forums, these
things are important, and I'll be I'll be honest. I
used to judge Disney adults. I didn't get it. I'm like,
where are you going to Disney without kids? I don't
get it? And I asked a friend of mine. I said,
(28:17):
all right, can you explain this Disney adult thing to me?
And she said, you know, a couple of years ago,
I lost my dad to cancer, and Disney is where
we have all of our best family memories. And I
go back to Disney to feel closest to my dad.
And I'm thinking, so often we judge the what when
(28:38):
we don't know the why. And we never know what
difficult walks someone is walking, you know, we never know
the role that music, or a sports team, or a
certain hobby or passion. We don't know what function that's
playing in their life. And I just invite a listener
to think about being not only gentler with other people
(29:00):
about passions and hobbies and interests, but also learning how
to give yourself grace is such an amazing practice as well.
I so easily could have been like, all right, sc
you've lost your damn mind because you have a cardboard
cutout of a pop star in your house.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
You've lost it.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
But you know what, that cardboard cutout of Harry Styles
made me laugh harder for the six months that I
owned it with my friends. It gave me more joy
because it was so ridiculous. And if something is not
harming you or anyone else, I say, let's go.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
I like the idea.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I am curious where you're at with it now in hindsight, Like,
will you be going to more Harry Styles concerts in
the future.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Yes, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
There is nothing in life I am looking forward to
more than Harry's Next to her, I truly cannot wait.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Amazing.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Asked about what.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Was it was?
Speaker 4 (30:02):
It came for Harry, stayed for the fans, and you know,
I want to give Harry's Styles a lot of credit
for so. I teach in the human and organizational development
at Vanderbilt University, and if you ask me, what's the
overlap between what you learned at these Hairy Styles concerts
and what you teach your students. Is a concept that
(30:24):
I would call psychological safety. When people feel safe to
be themselves. Data shows that the most beautiful things result.
There's openness, kindness, confidence, and all these things. And it's
something we talk about as a department, is how can
we make students feel comfortable to share in class, knowing
their opinions are valuable and so forth. And when I
(30:47):
heard that phrase when I started teaching at the university,
I thought, Oh, that's the secret sauce at a hairy
concert is people feel safe to be creative and zany
and funny and emotional. People feel free to cry at
the barricade to their favorite song that has moved them
for who knows what reason. And I think that's really
(31:10):
really powerful and worth mentioning. Harry Styles says, at every concert,
I hope you feel you can be in this room
who you've always wanted to be. What a beautiful invitation
that you can show up and be yourself.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Well, after all that you experienced, does see all the
changes you made to your life, all the concerts, all
the bathroom conversations, you created this framework for finding joy.
And the framework is cultivate, adopt, protect, spread. With the
time that we have left in this conversation, I want
to focus on adopting. What I love about the way
(31:49):
that you laid out this framework is that you punctuate
each phase with this series of truly magical questions. And
there's a question that really stuck out to me in
the adopt section, and you said, are you internalizing other victories, joys,
and wins and allowing them to bring you joy to
are you making others joy your own in a time
(32:12):
where some people are finding it hard to cultivate joy.
Can you give us a roadmap as to how we
can adopt the joy of others as our own.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
In a season of such significant loss, My spirits were
so buoyed by watching other people succeed and have fun
and so forth. And I introduced this idea of joy
in the wild and looking for joy in the wild, because,
like you said, sometimes cultivating joy in your own life
can feel like a challenge. You know, maybe grief is
(32:41):
your barrier to that, or whatever hardship it may be
for me. I started looking very closely at the world
around me in this season of rebuilding, and I found
that the more keenly observant I was, especially out in public,
the happier I was so. For example, at these Harry
Styles concerts, I'm looking at strangers offering to take each
(33:05):
other's photos. And my favorite example is girls were tying
together feather boas to make one giant feather boa and
they were using it to jump rope with strangers to
kill time before a concert started. And I was sitting
there and I was like, there, it is joy in
the wild.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
You know.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
The other day I was in Trader Joe's and I
could tell it was two best friends grocery shopping together,
and they went aisle by aisle with their carts side
by side, and they were commentating, have you tried those crackers?
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Have you tried that?
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Wait?
Speaker 4 (33:39):
This hummus is the best, And didn't. I wasn't trying
to eavesdrop, but I could tell that, like that's what
they were doing. And they were laughing, and they were
like product recommending and they were having the best time.
They We were kind of on the same schedule, I guess,
because I saw them in the parking lot.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Their cars were parked side by side. They gave each
other the biggest bear hugs after they loaded their cars
with their respective groceries. And I was sitting there and
I was like, I was having the worst day, and
I thought to myself, there it is joy in the
wild A friendship date to Trader Joe's. So again, when
cultivating joy in.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
Your own life feels like a bit of a stretch,
you know that, And that's something I can relate to.
That really was so life giving, and after I've trained
my eye to look for it, it's such a contagious
way to live.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
And that speaks to the power of finding joy in
the mundane too. Joy doesn't have to look like, you know,
an extravagant trip to Europe to go see a concert
for people who don't have the means, let's say, but
it's all around us if we train our to look,
which is what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Absolutely in the spirit of sharing joy, You've created Joy Hotline,
which is a place for people to call in and
share their moments of joy. What are some of the
great things that people have called in to share?
Speaker 4 (34:57):
I am so glad you asked. I started the Joy
Hotline this past summer. I was teaching a class for
Vanderbilt and New York City and I had this idea
as I was thinking about the big question, what brings
you joy?
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Why is that simple question so challenging for people to answer.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
I'm so surprised by how often people say, I don't
know what brings me joy, and I don't know what
I like anymore. So I thought, you know what, let's
pull the people. So I made thousands of stickers and
put them all over New York with the Joy Hotline
phone number, and it says what brings you joy? And
I was shocked by how many voicemails I got. I
thought people would just text it. And one of my favorites,
(35:36):
this girl, called in and she said, Hey, I just
found your sticker in Madison Square Park. And what brings
me joy is Brazilian music and when my mom's really happy.
I also love that feeling when you're at a party
and you look around and no one's on their phone
because people are deeply present. And I also love catching
(35:57):
up with old friends. And anyway, thank you so much
for giving me a reason to reflect on joy. Thanks
Joy Hotline.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
I mean it just melted me.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
And one of my other favorites someone said this week,
I trained my dog to smile in this really goofy
picture of their dog with the cheesiest smile. And one
of my other favorite voicemails. It was two Vanderbilt girls,
because the stickers are all over Vanderbilt too, And this
girl goes, Hey, Joy hotline. What brings me joy is
(36:31):
walking to Dunkin Donuts with my roommate because I love
my roommate. And the second girl, the roommate, is also
on the voicemail and she goes, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
That is so nice. I love you too. You bring
me so much joy.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
And they proceed to have a conversation about their friendship
on the Joy hotline and I'm just it brings me
crazy joy when people hit up the Joy hotline.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Well, I am certainly feeling less judgmental and a lot
more joyful. All thanks to USSI, thanks so much for
joining us on the bright side today.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
This was the most fun. Thank you both.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Thanks for your dose of joy.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Scproro is a professor at Vanderbilt University and the author
of Styles of Joy, a feel good framework for rediscovering
joy with a twist.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, Kat Kantas is with us.
She's the co founder of the tequila brand twenty one Seeds,
and she's going to share some of her incredible entrepreneurial insight.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect
with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram
and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and
feel free to tag us at Simone Boyce and at
Danielle Robe.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.
Hosts And Creators
Simone Boyce
Danielle Robay
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