October 30, 2024 • 32 mins
For those of us who have ever asked “Who am I?” — this one’s for you. Dr. Sara Kuburic — aka The Millennial Therapist — has asked herself this question, and dedicated her career to helping others answer it. She delves into the distinction between our identity and our roles, how we often lose ourselves in the expectations placed upon us, and how taking responsibility can be sexy.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey fam, Hello Sunshine. Today on the bright Side, it's
Wellness Wednesday, and we're joined by the millennial therapist, doctor
Sarah Kubrick. She's an existential psychotherapist and the author of
It's On Me. So if you've ever felt lost or
struggled to answer the question who am I? Today is
the show for you. It's Wednesday, October thirtieth. I'm Danielle Robe.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And I'm Simone Boyce and this is the bright Side
from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together
to share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten your day.
Today's Wellness Wednesday is presented by Coligard Danielle.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
We get to kick off.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Today's show with the brand new November Reese's Book Club Pick.
This month's pick is We Will Be Jaguars, a Memoir
of My People by Namante Nikimo and Mitch Anderson.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Namante n Kimo is an internationally acclaimed activist who's been
named one of Times one hundred most Influential People, and
she's also a winner of the magazine's twenty twenty four
Earth Award. So what does that mean? Well, it's pretty outstanding.
This award honors people who are quote influencing the future
of the planet through their work on climate justice, awareness
(01:13):
and activism.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
So incredible, and she's also the force behind an indigenous
campaign that led to a court ruling protecting half a
million acres of Waurani land in the Amazon Rainforest from
oil extraction.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
We truly need more people like her in the world.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
And this book is a memoir about her life, so
it tells the incredible story of her growing up in
the Waarani tribe deep in Ecuador's Amazon Rainforest, all the
way to her journey as a climate activist fighting to
protect it. Her story sounds really extraordinary, so I can't
wait to dive in Simone. It's clear she has this
really strong sense of identity and dedicated purpose, and in
(01:51):
that vein of purpose, I'm really excited to talk to today's
guest doctor. Sarah Krubrick is an existential psychotherapist, the author
It's On Me, and more commonly known on social media
as the Millennial Therapist. She shares her tips and musings
to her over one point seven million followers. Her latest
book is all about the concept of self loss accepting
(02:14):
hard truths, and it's really a guide to helping people
answer that major question.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Who am I.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Let's bring her in, doctor Sarah Kubrick. Welcome to the
bright Side.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Oh my goodness, thank you so much for having me.
I'm really excited.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
We're really excited to your book. It's on Me is
all about self loss, and this is very personal to you.
There was a time that you describe being incredibly unhappy
and experiencing that loss of self. What was going on
at that time in your life.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Yeah, so I was about twenty four. I want to
say I was kind of just going through life and
doing what people expected me to do. And I'm hoping
other people can relate to that where you're like, well,
I'm twenty So that means that I'll try to find
like a serious relationship, and I will figure my life
out and go to grad school or start that job,
and I'm going to look a certain way and I'm
(03:07):
gonna have certain friends. And so that's what I did,
and I got married. I was in grad school and
I remember having like a little school break and I
went to La to visit a really close friend of
mine who knew me from undergrad, and I was telling
him about all the cool things that I was doing
that everyone was praising me for and he just kind
(03:27):
of like looked at me and was like, yeah, no, no,
that's great, but like, are you happy? I was like,
how dare you?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Like?
Speaker 4 (03:36):
I just haven't had anyone actually ask me that question.
A lot of people just assumed I was happy or
would say things like, wow, you must be so happy.
And so it was that moment in my twenties. It
wasn't even living with self loss. It was recognizing it
that really hurt. Obviously living with it was painful, but
(03:56):
I was in so much denial and I didn't even
know it was happy. But that moment where he asked
that question and I kind of took a look at
my life and was like, I have no idea who
I am. I have like no idea why I'm here.
That was one of the most painful moments of my life.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I think self loss when people hear that phrase, it
means different things to different people. How do you describe
the experience of self loss?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Yeah, it's like becoming a stranger to yourself. Fruly, it's
looking in a mirror, not feeling like feeling connected with
that person, not feeling like you possess that person, not
feeling like you have intimacy with that person. It's looking
at yourself and looking at your actions and your relationships
and your decisions and going like, I don't why did
(04:43):
I do that? Like what, I don't actually know why
I'm doing the things I'm doing, or I'm surprising myself
and not in a super positive way. So it's just
a lack of alignment between how we perceive ourselves and
what our beliefs are and our values and then how
we're actually showing up in the world.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
So it's like, when our insides don't match our outsides.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
That's such a great way of saying that, yes, correct,
I need to use that. I need to feel like,
when your insides did not match your outsets.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
It's yours. You want to know. A really embarrassing story
when I learned that term. Yes, I was dating someone who,
at the end of our relationship said he made a
pro con list about me that I found, and when
I spoke to him about the list, he was like,
(05:31):
I just I'm looking for a Michelle Obama and yes
in most space. So my first instinct was like, are
you bor Rock? But I didn't say anything. I didn't
say I held my tongue and I had a therapy
appointment that week and I shared it and the therapist
very wisely said, well, it's a really interesting thing to
(05:56):
say because he's comparing Michelle Obama's outsides to your insides,
like we don't have in an inside look into whom
Michelle Obama is in those intimate moments, and the idea
of outsides and insides became very clear to me.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I've thought about it a lot since then.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
I love that and I'm sorry you went through that.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Thanks.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
What a thing to say to someone. It's really really yours.
I also want to be Michelle Obama. I would be
so great if that was. I was that gracious and
you know, articulate, and that's yes, we all want this totally.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Well, speaking of articulate, I love the way you lay
out the distinction in terms of how we think of
ourselves and identity. You write that identity is who we are,
roles are what we do.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
This applies to just.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So much in life, whether it's career or dating, even
being in a relationship or becoming a parent.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
How does this contribute to self loss?
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Yeah, I think we get lost in the roles. It's
it's almost like, you know, do you see the forest
from the trees sort of metaphor. But it's we all
get assigned roles. We all take roles on and we
don't actually understand how much of shapes who we are,
and we don't have this overview of who we are
because most of us become over committed to a role.
(07:20):
So it's like I am now a girlfriend, and you'll
just see everything else become like dumpster fire because they're
just like, you know, they're like, I'm a girlfriend and
that's an important role. Like you want to you know,
you want to connect you, I want to have intimacy,
and that's that's wonderful. But we I see people who
become parents sometimes not know how to navigate, you know,
other aspects of themselves besides parenthood, and that makes sense.
(07:43):
That's something I write about in the book. If your
roles are something that you engage with all the time,
eventually they will fully shape who you are. But you
might not like who that person is because it's going
to feel very one dimensional.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah, I that definitely resonates with me.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I identified myself through my career for the first I
don't know, maybe fifteen years or let's say twelve years
of adulthood, and then as I became a mom, that
process helped me disentangle my identity from my career. But
then there's always the danger of slipping into Oh, I'm
(08:24):
embodying the mom persona so much of the mom identity
so much that I'm losing other parts of myself. And
I think a lot of women struggle with finding the
right language to define themselves, Like, Okay, how do I
introduce myself now that I do feel like I'm living
out all the facets of my humanity? So what are
(08:45):
the alternative words or phrases that we can use to
describe ourselves in a more comprehensive, holistic way.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
Wow, that's a really hard question. Actually, I truly believe
that isolation is an inherent human EXAs experience, which means
that no one, no other person, no matter how close
to you, is fully going to understand the complexity and
the facets of who you are. And that experience is
really isolating, really lonely, but really profound. And I think
(09:17):
we need to accept the fact that no one will
fully understand what it means to be a mother and
a businesswoman and a friend because they just can't. They
are not you that don't share the same lived experience,
And so how I've come to terms with this is different.
People sometimes get different introductions from me, and sometimes it's like,
(09:38):
what facet do I feel most connected to right now?
Which one do I think I want to express in
this moment, because I can't express it all at once.
And I think one of the best ways to truly
show someone who you are is never by the way
you verbally identify. I think the only way to truly
answer like who am I is by the way you
(10:00):
live your life. And so that's such a great question,
but I think people should take liberties of like, hey,
what represents me in this very moment, in this very second,
in this very context, what am I connecting to? What
do I want to present? You have the right to
choose whatever that is.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I feel like I got into relationships in my teen
years and my twenties that were so not for me.
And part of the reason, in reflection, why that happened
was I was figuring out who I was. When we
think about that sense of self loss, how does knowing
(10:38):
yourself well come into play?
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yeah, oh my gosh, And who hasn't been in that experience,
like in that situation. I think when we're in our twenties,
we are still figuring it out, and I think that's normal,
that's actually developmental. And then we'll enter relationships without often
a very so understanding, which is also okay because what
(11:02):
you're doing is you're learning about yourself through a relationship.
I think a relationship can teach her so much forever
where I'm like, I thought I was this kind of person,
and then I'm like engaging with my partner, I'm like,
just kidding, surprise, and there's something wonderful about that. But
that's wonderful now in my thirties because I'm looking at
(11:23):
my life and I have this sense of self and
now I'm kind of evaluating, tweaking, adjusting, editing. In my twenties,
it wasn't so cute and it wasn't so nice because
someone would reflect something to me and I'd be like, oh,
maybe that's who I should be, or maybe that is
who like I like I was meant to be. And
without having like a very clear sense of self going
(11:44):
into relationship, I myself was prone to losing myself further
in those relationships, so I would become who the person
wanted me to be and that was because I wanted
them to love me and I wanted the relationship to
work out. And so there is this weird thing where
I believe that relationships, healthy relationships can help you become
more yourself than you could do alone, and then unhealthy
(12:08):
relationships can take you further away from yourself than you
could possibly ever do alone. And so that's I think
that's like the beauty and sort of the curse of relationships, Sarah.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
In my experience, I've had to forgive myself and love
myself first before I can know myself. Do you think
there's any truth to that or like, have you seen
that pattern in your patience that you've worked with?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Yeah, that's such a fact. It's almost like inverse of
what I would have thought. I think the forgiveness piece
absolutely in terms of you need to forgive your past
self almost to even be willing to look at your
current self. Like it it takes up our past our,
remorse or regret. It takes up so much space that
(12:56):
it's like I can't even engage with what is in
front of me because because I'm so stuck. So absolutely,
I think forgiveness plays a massive role and forgiveness comes
from also understanding. I think there's so much blame and grace.
My God, we need to give ourselves grace. It's our
first time probably on earth doing this journey. We're going
(13:18):
to make mistakes, and I think part of it is
also why are we assuming life is not about mistakes?
How do people think we're going to develop? Also, what
is the point of life if there's no trials and
mistakes and tentions experiments. I just like, I think that's
actually the definition of life. So when people are trying
to avoid it, I think we're setting ourselves up for
(13:39):
failure in the real sense of the word. And so
I think forgiveness plays a huge role. The love piece,
for me, is the final step. I don't think you
can love someone you don't know, and so for me,
when I think about actual love, actual intimacy, for me,
it's first like you're acknowledging yourself that maybe you accept
(14:00):
whatever you just acknowledged. Then hopefully you'll get to a
place where you can respect that person and then you
can like them and then love them. But to me,
you can't love a stranger in the true sense of
the word the same way you would love someone that
you had an intimate relationship with.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I'd love to also establish the inverse. What does self
fulfillment look like?
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Oof hmm. I think that looks like a relationship that
is aligned. So the reason why I say it's a
relationship is because I don't think self fulfillment is a destination.
It's an ongoing journey. I don't think the self is static.
I don't think we get there and we're like, hey, self,
(14:45):
and now you sit with it till you're eighty. I
think self fulfillment to me is a constant desire to understand,
to connect, and to align with yourself. It's not a checklist.
It is not like a I'm doing in therapy and
then I'm like, I'm done. Like if a client came
up to me and said my goal in therapy is
(15:05):
to be self fulfilled, I'm like, sweet, so are we
doing this forever?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Like?
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Is this a monthly, a yearly subscription, a decades Like?
It's just it's an ongoing process. And so for me,
self discovering is just openness, curiosity, and then acting out
of that place of alignment of your insights match your outsides.
If I'm going to quote you.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
I'm so honored. Yeah, doctor Kubrick, this is something I
think about a lot, because I actually attribute a lot
of my joy and happiness to meaning. Hmmm, I'm wondering, how, like,
if you are searching for purpose, how do you how
do you even begin to think about that? Because You're right,
(15:49):
it's so individual.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Yeah, something I'll like to do as an activity to
make it a bit more tangible is I'll get someone
to tell me their entire schedule for a week or
maybe even a day. But like when I'm talking excruciating details,
I mean like excruciating details, and I put it all
on a page and I'm like, amazing, And then I'll
(16:11):
ask them to reflect what do they spend most of
their time on and why? Because the reality is, as humans,
we will always seek meaning. I think that's something that's very.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Inherent.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
I think it's an inherent need and so I genuinely
believe that. And so when we go throughout our day,
we might not realize that what we're looking for is
seeking for meaning or living out pieces of that meaning.
What we're actually doing when I'm actually putting someone's day
on the page, I'm looking for values. Okay, what are
your values, because your values and your beliefs are going
(16:46):
to lead me to your meaning. And I think just
being really curious of like the things you spend time
on will tell you what you value. Sit there, explore
what you value and why, and are there ways that
you can kind of lean into those values that would
be maybe create greater impact or make it a little
more tangible for you. And so I think most of
(17:06):
us actually do live out some values. Now we will
face values that will be like, I can't believe that
is a value of mine, because we always speak of
values as like a really positive thing. But I think
once in a while we have this moment of our
truth of like, oh this has become a value that's
a little disappointing. Maybe I just need to deprioritize that
(17:28):
particular value for now. And so it's just about like
that reflection. But I think oftentimes we're telling ourselves all
the things we actually need to know.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
We need to take a quick break, but we'll be
right back to our conversation with doctor Sarah Kubrick, and
we're back with doctor Sarah Kubrick. Sarah, I love that
(17:58):
you've carved out this area of expertise for yourself that
you call existential therapy. And the reason why I identify
with this so much is because I feel like I'm
the existential friend in my friend group. Like we'll go
to we'll go to dinner, and I'll like warm them
up a little bit with like some softball questions, but
eventually we're going to get to what is the meaning
(18:19):
of life?
Speaker 3 (18:20):
What do you think it is? How did you arrive
at that?
Speaker 2 (18:22):
I just always love taking existential So I love this
idea of existential therapy. But break down that term for us.
What does that term mean? And how can it help
with self loss?
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Oh my god, I love that you do this with
your friends. I'm like that unpopular, I'm cool kid at
the table that's like, so like death, what do we think?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Now I do the same thing for
it or I don't know if it's a good thing
or a bad thing, but it's just it's authentic to me.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
I think it's a great thing because I think most
of us have these questions. We're just not addressing it.
So every therapist sort of has a way of understanding
their clients. So if you're an attachment in formed therapist,
you're going to look for the individual attachment in their stories.
If you're a CPT therapist, you're going to look for
cognitive patterns and behaviors. And if you're an existential therapist,
I'm going to look for how are you taking responsibility
(19:11):
in your life? What is your relationship to freedom, to isolation,
to meaning to death? So it's really just informed by
existential philosophy.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
We've set up some of the causes of self loss
in this conversation, and on our show, we do love
to talk about solutions. So can we get into some
of these solutions that you explore through existential therapy?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
What does that look like in practice?
Speaker 4 (19:36):
Yeah, I think the solution for me for self loss
is responsibility. It's not sexy, it's really not, but I
think it's the most liberating, life changing concept once you
lean into it. I think self loss happens either because
you have like a big life event and you can't
(19:57):
reconcile who you were before who you are after. And
that can be a move, a breakup, divorce, a kid,
something traumatic, a car accident, a death, and you're just
feeling really fragmented and you cannot reconcile, you cannot understand
who you are a past that hurt or past that trauma,
and then sometimes it's really really gradual. So you're betraying yourself,
(20:18):
abandoning yourself in relationships, at work, no boundaries, not communicating,
not setting up for yourself, doing things that are not
aligned with your values. So there's so many ways to
get there, but all of it kind of stops when
you understand that no one can protect you the way
that you can protect yourself, and no one can shape
(20:40):
you the way that you can shape yourself. And so
we have this wonderful gift of being whoever we want
to be, but we have to take responsibility for it. It
does not accidentally happen. I don't think it's like this
inherent thing where're like and now I'm just going to
be a phenomenal individual and I don't have to work
on myself. And so for me, it's taking responsibility for
(21:01):
every single action, which sounds really tedious. So I think
people are like, seriously every action. I say, yes, here's
my rationale. Let's say that you're sensitive to caffeine, such
as myself, and you're like, I have a really big
day and I have a serious conversation. I have to
have with my partner and then I decide to have coffee.
(21:23):
Now me having coffee or macha, there's such a significant
difference on my nervous system. And yeah, someone can be like, Wow,
you had a cup of coffee. Who cares. I'm like, no, no,
that I need to make an intentional decision of Like
I have a big day, I'm already a bit nervous.
I'm a bit anxious. I do not need to be
having caffeine right now. And so it's like, how do
(21:43):
I want to address if I'm uncomfortable? Most people act
a certain way. If they feel more confident, more attractive,
toy'll act a certain way. And so I literally think
that every decision that we make, from what we ingest,
to how we dress, to a conversations we're choosing to
have all end up shaping our sense of self and
some respon. You know, some decisions we can make and
some we can So whenever we have that freedom, taking
(22:06):
that responsibility for our actions is really important, no matter
how small the action you think might be.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
I think responsibility is so sexy.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
It's so sexy.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Even though society doesn't agree right now, like millennial culture
probably doesn't agree, I don't care.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
I think it's so sexy.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
Well that's because we think it's blame, right, Like we're like,
there's so much shame with it because it's like it's
your phone and then only one person we dump everything
on like one person instead of just being like, responsibility
means autonomy, It means making amends, it means taking ownership,
it means possession. That's hot, you know, blame not so hot.
(22:47):
So I get it, but I think we need to
like we need to bring back responsibility in like a
sexy way and be like, this is what it actually means.
It's accountability, it's possession, it's ownership. It's like empowered rather
than like it's you are you know, you screwed up
and you don't deserve other chances and you should be
ashamed and we hate you.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Well, what's the correlation between responsibility and freedom?
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Yeah, so my take, my hot take maybe is you're
not really responsible for things. You're not free to choose
to do or not do. So if you had the
freedom to make a choice and then you chose it,
that is on you. And if you didn't obviously have
that choice, then that's not on you. Now it gets
(23:33):
real twisty and dark when I don't actually think our
freedom is ever fully taken away, which is just my
way of saying, I think we're pretty much always responsible
to a different degree because we all have different freedoms
and different limitations and constraints. But that was just like
a fun run around way of saying, like, huh, we're
always responsible. And as you said, no one wants to
hear that.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
It's kind of empowering to hear it, though.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
I think so Imagine if I couldn't change my life.
Imagine if my mistakes were in my fault, Like I'm
just kind of like i'd be even more pissed. You know,
there is slight situations you find yourself in and you're like,
this really wasn't on me, and I'm taking the heed
for it, and I don't like it, and that's a
really frustrating position to be in. But I kind of
(24:16):
like the fact that a lot of it does boil
down to me, and as much as I hate it,
I go like, well, at least I did it to me.
At least, like if I don't like the person I'm seeing,
that's probably my curation, which means I have the freedom
and the capacity to make something in someone I am
proud of.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
It's time for another short break. We'll be right back
with doctor Sarah Kubrick, and we're back to wellness Wednesday
with doctor Sarah Kubrick. There's this big movement on TikTok
where women are talking about how to get to the
(24:56):
vision board version of yourself and they write down these
lists of what does this version of myself eat, what
does the day look like for her? Who is she
friends with, what job does she have? And similar to
what you were saying earlier, which is like with the
exercise you did about your values and purpose, is like,
(25:19):
is there a discrepancy between who this person is and
what you are doing and living and eating right now?
And then you have the power to change it. I
think it's very cool.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
I think it's so tangible, it's very practical. It's very cool.
My only hesitation is I never want to over commit
to one version of myself wow say more good right,
because that limits my growth. I don't want to be
like I just want to be this woman because when
I reach that, what then? And what if along the
(25:51):
way I realized that's no longer who I want to be.
That you're no longer aligned. And this happens all the time.
And so for me, the number one piece of advice
give people these don't over commit to one version of yourself.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Oh that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
I love that so much.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
I think it's just really really important. And activities like
this are absolutely great as long as you still reassess
that person you're trying to become, Like every week where
you're like, do I still want her to eat this way?
Do I still want her to dress that way? Do
I still want her to have kids? Not have kids?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Right? Yeah, Because it's a fluid, noisy discussion with ourselves
that we're always engaged in.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Right Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I can hear our besties, you know, as we're talking
about all this, and I can kind of hear their
wheels turning, because I imagine that some people have questions
about what happens when we want to feel that freedom
and embody freedom, but life throws stuff our way that's
just out of our control. Talking about things like profound loss, violence, illness,
(26:54):
climate change, war and conflict, which I know you have
personal experience with your childhood. How can we protect against
self loss in circumstances that might just be unjust and
unfair and out of our control.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
Oh my god, there's way too much of that right now.
And I think it's important to remember that this concept
I draw upon comes from Victor Frankel, who survived the
concentration camps. So it was written by someone who's probably
seen some of the worst of humanity. It wasn't written
by someone who didn't, who had a really nice life,
(27:32):
and for him, the last of human freedoms was his attitude.
So freedom is not always freedom of action or freedom
of feeling. Necessarily, it is like, I choose to have
this attitude despite of what is happening. And I think
at the end of the day, that's all he had.
He couldn't choose when he slept, aid, if he lived
(27:54):
or he died, what he did that day, And yet
he still argued that he was free. He had some
degree of freedom, and I think that that's a really
beautiful thing of No one can actually break that spirit
from you, know what can take away freedom fully from
you until you die In a sense of shit, things
are happening, painful things are happening, and you can still
(28:15):
kind of choose how you want to position yourself, how
you want to think about it, while your attitude is
going to be how are you going to speak to yourself?
And I think that's there's something really cool about that.
It's a very sensitive topic and there's going to be
moments where we don't feel free, and that's okay too.
I'm not saying everyone has to believe that they always
have freedom, but I do lean on the sort of
(28:36):
on that side of we probably have more freedom than
we think, even if it's just like I'm choosing my
attitude today.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I actually think that really is applicable. Whenever people say
they're feeling stuck in their careers or even just stuck
in life, you know, like stuck in a situation that
they feel like they need to move out of. We
always have agent and see, even if it's in the
smallest way.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
Yeah, I mean, I love that you just brought this up.
A lot of people that come and say they're stuck.
What they mean is they can't experience change while doing
nothing different. That's what people mean by stuck. And I'm like, yes,
you will never experience something different if you keep doing
the same thing. But I always go, let's put down
(29:25):
the consequences. Tell me all the things you could hypothetically do.
If people are like I hate my job and I'm
stuck or I hate this relationship, I'm like, what are
all the things that you could hypothetically do. They're like, well,
I can leave, I can quit, I can go up
to my boss, I can start this or that, and
so the I'm like, oh, so you do have choices,
They're like, well, and I'm like, no, what you're saying
(29:48):
is you don't want the consequences of those choices. But
don't confuse that with not having a choice, because often
we're just choosing consequences, which is okay, and you need
to think about the consequences. But I love to tell
people like, no, you do actually have the choice to
leave your partner. This is not an abuse context. We're
just talking about like someone who's like I'm stuck and
(30:08):
I'm like, who am I going to date now? And
you know, like those people are like I'm not really sure,
but like I don't want to leave, And I'll say,
you actually do have the choice to leave. You're just
choosing not to do it because of the consequence, which
means you're choosing to stay. And the fact that people
can understand that they're choosing to stay liberates them. Sometimes
(30:29):
you don't actually have to change your actions, you just
have to change your attitude towards your actions. So being
like this is a choice, this is not an obligation,
is incredibly liberating. Or then they'll realize, like, Okay, maybe
I should be a little less worried about the consequences
and recognize that I do have these choices and I
need to honor myself by trying something different.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
You are such an essential voice in this conversation today.
Thank you so much for joining us on the bright side.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Thank you Cues so much for having me. It's truly
an honor.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Doctor Sarah Kubrick is an existential psychotherapist and the author
of It's On Me. You can find her on Instagram
as the Millennial Therapist.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
That's it. For today's show, Tomorrow it is Halloween. Comedian
and podcaster Lauren Lapkis joins us to talk all things spooky.
Thank you to our partners at Coligard, the one of
a kind way to screen for colon cancer in the
privacy and comfort of your own home. Talk to your
doctor or healthcare provider, or go to coliguard dot com.
(31:39):
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If you're forty five or older and at average risk,
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coligard dot com. Slash podcast.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Join the conversation using hashtag the Bread and connect with
us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram and
at The bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and feel
free to tag us at Simone Boyce and at Danielle Robe.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.
Hey fam, Hello Sunshine. Today on the bright Side, it's
Wellness Wednesday, and we're joined by the millennial therapist, doctor
Sarah Kubrick. She's an existential psychotherapist and the author of
It's On Me. So if you've ever felt lost or
struggled to answer the question who am I? Today is
the show for you. It's Wednesday, October thirtieth. I'm Danielle Robe.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And I'm Simone Boyce and this is the bright Side
from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together
to share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten your day.
Today's Wellness Wednesday is presented by Coligard Danielle.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
We get to kick off.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Today's show with the brand new November Reese's Book Club Pick.
This month's pick is We Will Be Jaguars, a Memoir
of My People by Namante Nikimo and Mitch Anderson.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Namante n Kimo is an internationally acclaimed activist who's been
named one of Times one hundred most Influential People, and
she's also a winner of the magazine's twenty twenty four
Earth Award. So what does that mean? Well, it's pretty outstanding.
This award honors people who are quote influencing the future
of the planet through their work on climate justice, awareness
(01:13):
and activism.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
So incredible, and she's also the force behind an indigenous
campaign that led to a court ruling protecting half a
million acres of Waurani land in the Amazon Rainforest from
oil extraction.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
We truly need more people like her in the world.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
And this book is a memoir about her life, so
it tells the incredible story of her growing up in
the Waarani tribe deep in Ecuador's Amazon Rainforest, all the
way to her journey as a climate activist fighting to
protect it. Her story sounds really extraordinary, so I can't
wait to dive in Simone. It's clear she has this
really strong sense of identity and dedicated purpose, and in
(01:51):
that vein of purpose, I'm really excited to talk to today's
guest doctor. Sarah Krubrick is an existential psychotherapist, the author
It's On Me, and more commonly known on social media
as the Millennial Therapist. She shares her tips and musings
to her over one point seven million followers. Her latest
book is all about the concept of self loss accepting
(02:14):
hard truths, and it's really a guide to helping people
answer that major question.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Who am I.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Let's bring her in, doctor Sarah Kubrick. Welcome to the
bright Side.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Oh my goodness, thank you so much for having me.
I'm really excited.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
We're really excited to your book. It's on Me is
all about self loss, and this is very personal to you.
There was a time that you describe being incredibly unhappy
and experiencing that loss of self. What was going on
at that time in your life.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Yeah, so I was about twenty four. I want to
say I was kind of just going through life and
doing what people expected me to do. And I'm hoping
other people can relate to that where you're like, well,
I'm twenty So that means that I'll try to find
like a serious relationship, and I will figure my life
out and go to grad school or start that job,
and I'm going to look a certain way and I'm
(03:07):
gonna have certain friends. And so that's what I did,
and I got married. I was in grad school and
I remember having like a little school break and I
went to La to visit a really close friend of
mine who knew me from undergrad, and I was telling
him about all the cool things that I was doing
that everyone was praising me for and he just kind
(03:27):
of like looked at me and was like, yeah, no, no,
that's great, but like, are you happy? I was like,
how dare you?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Like?
Speaker 4 (03:36):
I just haven't had anyone actually ask me that question.
A lot of people just assumed I was happy or
would say things like, wow, you must be so happy.
And so it was that moment in my twenties. It
wasn't even living with self loss. It was recognizing it
that really hurt. Obviously living with it was painful, but
(03:56):
I was in so much denial and I didn't even
know it was happy. But that moment where he asked
that question and I kind of took a look at
my life and was like, I have no idea who
I am. I have like no idea why I'm here.
That was one of the most painful moments of my life.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I think self loss when people hear that phrase, it
means different things to different people. How do you describe
the experience of self loss?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Yeah, it's like becoming a stranger to yourself. Fruly, it's
looking in a mirror, not feeling like feeling connected with
that person, not feeling like you possess that person, not
feeling like you have intimacy with that person. It's looking
at yourself and looking at your actions and your relationships
and your decisions and going like, I don't why did
(04:43):
I do that? Like what, I don't actually know why
I'm doing the things I'm doing, or I'm surprising myself
and not in a super positive way. So it's just
a lack of alignment between how we perceive ourselves and
what our beliefs are and our values and then how
we're actually showing up in the world.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
So it's like, when our insides don't match our outsides.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
That's such a great way of saying that, yes, correct,
I need to use that. I need to feel like,
when your insides did not match your outsets.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
It's yours. You want to know. A really embarrassing story
when I learned that term. Yes, I was dating someone who,
at the end of our relationship said he made a
pro con list about me that I found, and when
I spoke to him about the list, he was like,
(05:31):
I just I'm looking for a Michelle Obama and yes
in most space. So my first instinct was like, are
you bor Rock? But I didn't say anything. I didn't
say I held my tongue and I had a therapy
appointment that week and I shared it and the therapist
very wisely said, well, it's a really interesting thing to
(05:56):
say because he's comparing Michelle Obama's outsides to your insides,
like we don't have in an inside look into whom
Michelle Obama is in those intimate moments, and the idea
of outsides and insides became very clear to me.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I've thought about it a lot since then.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
I love that and I'm sorry you went through that.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Thanks.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
What a thing to say to someone. It's really really yours.
I also want to be Michelle Obama. I would be
so great if that was. I was that gracious and
you know, articulate, and that's yes, we all want this totally.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Well, speaking of articulate, I love the way you lay
out the distinction in terms of how we think of
ourselves and identity. You write that identity is who we are,
roles are what we do.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
This applies to just.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So much in life, whether it's career or dating, even
being in a relationship or becoming a parent.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
How does this contribute to self loss?
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Yeah, I think we get lost in the roles. It's
it's almost like, you know, do you see the forest
from the trees sort of metaphor. But it's we all
get assigned roles. We all take roles on and we
don't actually understand how much of shapes who we are,
and we don't have this overview of who we are
because most of us become over committed to a role.
(07:20):
So it's like I am now a girlfriend, and you'll
just see everything else become like dumpster fire because they're
just like, you know, they're like, I'm a girlfriend and
that's an important role. Like you want to you know,
you want to connect you, I want to have intimacy,
and that's that's wonderful. But we I see people who
become parents sometimes not know how to navigate, you know,
other aspects of themselves besides parenthood, and that makes sense.
(07:43):
That's something I write about in the book. If your
roles are something that you engage with all the time,
eventually they will fully shape who you are. But you
might not like who that person is because it's going
to feel very one dimensional.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah, I that definitely resonates with me.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I identified myself through my career for the first I
don't know, maybe fifteen years or let's say twelve years
of adulthood, and then as I became a mom, that
process helped me disentangle my identity from my career. But
then there's always the danger of slipping into Oh, I'm
(08:24):
embodying the mom persona so much of the mom identity
so much that I'm losing other parts of myself. And
I think a lot of women struggle with finding the
right language to define themselves, Like, Okay, how do I
introduce myself now that I do feel like I'm living
out all the facets of my humanity? So what are
(08:45):
the alternative words or phrases that we can use to
describe ourselves in a more comprehensive, holistic way.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
Wow, that's a really hard question. Actually, I truly believe
that isolation is an inherent human EXAs experience, which means
that no one, no other person, no matter how close
to you, is fully going to understand the complexity and
the facets of who you are. And that experience is
really isolating, really lonely, but really profound. And I think
(09:17):
we need to accept the fact that no one will
fully understand what it means to be a mother and
a businesswoman and a friend because they just can't. They
are not you that don't share the same lived experience,
And so how I've come to terms with this is different.
People sometimes get different introductions from me, and sometimes it's like,
(09:38):
what facet do I feel most connected to right now?
Which one do I think I want to express in
this moment, because I can't express it all at once.
And I think one of the best ways to truly
show someone who you are is never by the way
you verbally identify. I think the only way to truly
answer like who am I is by the way you
(10:00):
live your life. And so that's such a great question,
but I think people should take liberties of like, hey,
what represents me in this very moment, in this very second,
in this very context, what am I connecting to? What
do I want to present? You have the right to
choose whatever that is.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I feel like I got into relationships in my teen
years and my twenties that were so not for me.
And part of the reason, in reflection, why that happened
was I was figuring out who I was. When we
think about that sense of self loss, how does knowing
(10:38):
yourself well come into play?
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yeah, oh my gosh, And who hasn't been in that experience,
like in that situation. I think when we're in our twenties,
we are still figuring it out, and I think that's normal,
that's actually developmental. And then we'll enter relationships without often
a very so understanding, which is also okay because what
(11:02):
you're doing is you're learning about yourself through a relationship.
I think a relationship can teach her so much forever
where I'm like, I thought I was this kind of person,
and then I'm like engaging with my partner, I'm like,
just kidding, surprise, and there's something wonderful about that. But
that's wonderful now in my thirties because I'm looking at
(11:23):
my life and I have this sense of self and
now I'm kind of evaluating, tweaking, adjusting, editing. In my twenties,
it wasn't so cute and it wasn't so nice because
someone would reflect something to me and I'd be like, oh,
maybe that's who I should be, or maybe that is
who like I like I was meant to be. And
without having like a very clear sense of self going
(11:44):
into relationship, I myself was prone to losing myself further
in those relationships, so I would become who the person
wanted me to be and that was because I wanted
them to love me and I wanted the relationship to
work out. And so there is this weird thing where
I believe that relationships, healthy relationships can help you become
more yourself than you could do alone, and then unhealthy
(12:08):
relationships can take you further away from yourself than you
could possibly ever do alone. And so that's I think
that's like the beauty and sort of the curse of relationships, Sarah.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
In my experience, I've had to forgive myself and love
myself first before I can know myself. Do you think
there's any truth to that or like, have you seen
that pattern in your patience that you've worked with?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Yeah, that's such a fact. It's almost like inverse of
what I would have thought. I think the forgiveness piece
absolutely in terms of you need to forgive your past
self almost to even be willing to look at your
current self. Like it it takes up our past our,
remorse or regret. It takes up so much space that
(12:56):
it's like I can't even engage with what is in
front of me because because I'm so stuck. So absolutely,
I think forgiveness plays a massive role and forgiveness comes
from also understanding. I think there's so much blame and grace.
My God, we need to give ourselves grace. It's our
first time probably on earth doing this journey. We're going
(13:18):
to make mistakes, and I think part of it is
also why are we assuming life is not about mistakes?
How do people think we're going to develop? Also, what
is the point of life if there's no trials and
mistakes and tentions experiments. I just like, I think that's
actually the definition of life. So when people are trying
to avoid it, I think we're setting ourselves up for
(13:39):
failure in the real sense of the word. And so
I think forgiveness plays a huge role. The love piece,
for me, is the final step. I don't think you
can love someone you don't know, and so for me,
when I think about actual love, actual intimacy, for me,
it's first like you're acknowledging yourself that maybe you accept
(14:00):
whatever you just acknowledged. Then hopefully you'll get to a
place where you can respect that person and then you
can like them and then love them. But to me,
you can't love a stranger in the true sense of
the word the same way you would love someone that
you had an intimate relationship with.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I'd love to also establish the inverse. What does self
fulfillment look like?
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Oof hmm. I think that looks like a relationship that
is aligned. So the reason why I say it's a
relationship is because I don't think self fulfillment is a destination.
It's an ongoing journey. I don't think the self is static.
I don't think we get there and we're like, hey, self,
(14:45):
and now you sit with it till you're eighty. I
think self fulfillment to me is a constant desire to understand,
to connect, and to align with yourself. It's not a checklist.
It is not like a I'm doing in therapy and
then I'm like, I'm done. Like if a client came
up to me and said my goal in therapy is
(15:05):
to be self fulfilled, I'm like, sweet, so are we
doing this forever?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Like?
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Is this a monthly, a yearly subscription, a decades Like?
It's just it's an ongoing process. And so for me,
self discovering is just openness, curiosity, and then acting out
of that place of alignment of your insights match your outsides.
If I'm going to quote you.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
I'm so honored. Yeah, doctor Kubrick, this is something I
think about a lot, because I actually attribute a lot
of my joy and happiness to meaning. Hmmm, I'm wondering, how, like,
if you are searching for purpose, how do you how
do you even begin to think about that? Because You're right,
(15:49):
it's so individual.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Yeah, something I'll like to do as an activity to
make it a bit more tangible is I'll get someone
to tell me their entire schedule for a week or
maybe even a day. But like when I'm talking excruciating details,
I mean like excruciating details, and I put it all
on a page and I'm like, amazing, And then I'll
(16:11):
ask them to reflect what do they spend most of
their time on and why? Because the reality is, as humans,
we will always seek meaning. I think that's something that's very.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Inherent.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
I think it's an inherent need and so I genuinely
believe that. And so when we go throughout our day,
we might not realize that what we're looking for is
seeking for meaning or living out pieces of that meaning.
What we're actually doing when I'm actually putting someone's day
on the page, I'm looking for values. Okay, what are
your values, because your values and your beliefs are going
(16:46):
to lead me to your meaning. And I think just
being really curious of like the things you spend time
on will tell you what you value. Sit there, explore
what you value and why, and are there ways that
you can kind of lean into those values that would
be maybe create greater impact or make it a little
more tangible for you. And so I think most of
(17:06):
us actually do live out some values. Now we will
face values that will be like, I can't believe that
is a value of mine, because we always speak of
values as like a really positive thing. But I think
once in a while we have this moment of our
truth of like, oh this has become a value that's
a little disappointing. Maybe I just need to deprioritize that
(17:28):
particular value for now. And so it's just about like
that reflection. But I think oftentimes we're telling ourselves all
the things we actually need to know.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
We need to take a quick break, but we'll be
right back to our conversation with doctor Sarah Kubrick, and
we're back with doctor Sarah Kubrick. Sarah, I love that
(17:58):
you've carved out this area of expertise for yourself that
you call existential therapy. And the reason why I identify
with this so much is because I feel like I'm
the existential friend in my friend group. Like we'll go
to we'll go to dinner, and I'll like warm them
up a little bit with like some softball questions, but
eventually we're going to get to what is the meaning
(18:19):
of life?
Speaker 3 (18:20):
What do you think it is? How did you arrive
at that?
Speaker 2 (18:22):
I just always love taking existential So I love this
idea of existential therapy. But break down that term for us.
What does that term mean? And how can it help
with self loss?
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Oh my god, I love that you do this with
your friends. I'm like that unpopular, I'm cool kid at
the table that's like, so like death, what do we think?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Now I do the same thing for
it or I don't know if it's a good thing
or a bad thing, but it's just it's authentic to me.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
I think it's a great thing because I think most
of us have these questions. We're just not addressing it.
So every therapist sort of has a way of understanding
their clients. So if you're an attachment in formed therapist,
you're going to look for the individual attachment in their stories.
If you're a CPT therapist, you're going to look for
cognitive patterns and behaviors. And if you're an existential therapist,
I'm going to look for how are you taking responsibility
(19:11):
in your life? What is your relationship to freedom, to isolation,
to meaning to death? So it's really just informed by
existential philosophy.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
We've set up some of the causes of self loss
in this conversation, and on our show, we do love
to talk about solutions. So can we get into some
of these solutions that you explore through existential therapy?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
What does that look like in practice?
Speaker 4 (19:36):
Yeah, I think the solution for me for self loss
is responsibility. It's not sexy, it's really not, but I
think it's the most liberating, life changing concept once you
lean into it. I think self loss happens either because
you have like a big life event and you can't
(19:57):
reconcile who you were before who you are after. And
that can be a move, a breakup, divorce, a kid,
something traumatic, a car accident, a death, and you're just
feeling really fragmented and you cannot reconcile, you cannot understand
who you are a past that hurt or past that trauma,
and then sometimes it's really really gradual. So you're betraying yourself,
(20:18):
abandoning yourself in relationships, at work, no boundaries, not communicating,
not setting up for yourself, doing things that are not
aligned with your values. So there's so many ways to
get there, but all of it kind of stops when
you understand that no one can protect you the way
that you can protect yourself, and no one can shape
(20:40):
you the way that you can shape yourself. And so
we have this wonderful gift of being whoever we want
to be, but we have to take responsibility for it. It
does not accidentally happen. I don't think it's like this
inherent thing where're like and now I'm just going to
be a phenomenal individual and I don't have to work
on myself. And so for me, it's taking responsibility for
(21:01):
every single action, which sounds really tedious. So I think
people are like, seriously every action. I say, yes, here's
my rationale. Let's say that you're sensitive to caffeine, such
as myself, and you're like, I have a really big
day and I have a serious conversation. I have to
have with my partner and then I decide to have coffee.
(21:23):
Now me having coffee or macha, there's such a significant
difference on my nervous system. And yeah, someone can be like, Wow,
you had a cup of coffee. Who cares. I'm like, no, no,
that I need to make an intentional decision of Like
I have a big day, I'm already a bit nervous.
I'm a bit anxious. I do not need to be
having caffeine right now. And so it's like, how do
(21:43):
I want to address if I'm uncomfortable? Most people act
a certain way. If they feel more confident, more attractive,
toy'll act a certain way. And so I literally think
that every decision that we make, from what we ingest,
to how we dress, to a conversations we're choosing to
have all end up shaping our sense of self and
some respon. You know, some decisions we can make and
some we can So whenever we have that freedom, taking
(22:06):
that responsibility for our actions is really important, no matter
how small the action you think might be.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
I think responsibility is so sexy.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
It's so sexy.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Even though society doesn't agree right now, like millennial culture
probably doesn't agree, I don't care.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
I think it's so sexy.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
Well that's because we think it's blame, right, Like we're like,
there's so much shame with it because it's like it's
your phone and then only one person we dump everything
on like one person instead of just being like, responsibility
means autonomy, It means making amends, it means taking ownership,
it means possession. That's hot, you know, blame not so hot.
(22:47):
So I get it, but I think we need to
like we need to bring back responsibility in like a
sexy way and be like, this is what it actually means.
It's accountability, it's possession, it's ownership. It's like empowered rather
than like it's you are you know, you screwed up
and you don't deserve other chances and you should be
ashamed and we hate you.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Well, what's the correlation between responsibility and freedom?
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Yeah, so my take, my hot take maybe is you're
not really responsible for things. You're not free to choose
to do or not do. So if you had the
freedom to make a choice and then you chose it,
that is on you. And if you didn't obviously have
that choice, then that's not on you. Now it gets
(23:33):
real twisty and dark when I don't actually think our
freedom is ever fully taken away, which is just my
way of saying, I think we're pretty much always responsible
to a different degree because we all have different freedoms
and different limitations and constraints. But that was just like
a fun run around way of saying, like, huh, we're
always responsible. And as you said, no one wants to
hear that.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
It's kind of empowering to hear it, though.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
I think so Imagine if I couldn't change my life.
Imagine if my mistakes were in my fault, Like I'm
just kind of like i'd be even more pissed. You know,
there is slight situations you find yourself in and you're like,
this really wasn't on me, and I'm taking the heed
for it, and I don't like it, and that's a
really frustrating position to be in. But I kind of
(24:16):
like the fact that a lot of it does boil
down to me, and as much as I hate it,
I go like, well, at least I did it to me.
At least, like if I don't like the person I'm seeing,
that's probably my curation, which means I have the freedom
and the capacity to make something in someone I am
proud of.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
It's time for another short break. We'll be right back
with doctor Sarah Kubrick, and we're back to wellness Wednesday
with doctor Sarah Kubrick. There's this big movement on TikTok
where women are talking about how to get to the
(24:56):
vision board version of yourself and they write down these
lists of what does this version of myself eat, what
does the day look like for her? Who is she
friends with, what job does she have? And similar to
what you were saying earlier, which is like with the
exercise you did about your values and purpose, is like,
(25:19):
is there a discrepancy between who this person is and
what you are doing and living and eating right now?
And then you have the power to change it. I
think it's very cool.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
I think it's so tangible, it's very practical. It's very cool.
My only hesitation is I never want to over commit
to one version of myself wow say more good right,
because that limits my growth. I don't want to be
like I just want to be this woman because when
I reach that, what then? And what if along the
(25:51):
way I realized that's no longer who I want to be.
That you're no longer aligned. And this happens all the time.
And so for me, the number one piece of advice
give people these don't over commit to one version of yourself.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Oh that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
I love that so much.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
I think it's just really really important. And activities like
this are absolutely great as long as you still reassess
that person you're trying to become, Like every week where
you're like, do I still want her to eat this way?
Do I still want her to dress that way? Do
I still want her to have kids? Not have kids?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Right? Yeah, Because it's a fluid, noisy discussion with ourselves
that we're always engaged in.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Right Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I can hear our besties, you know, as we're talking
about all this, and I can kind of hear their
wheels turning, because I imagine that some people have questions
about what happens when we want to feel that freedom
and embody freedom, but life throws stuff our way that's
just out of our control. Talking about things like profound loss, violence, illness,
(26:54):
climate change, war and conflict, which I know you have
personal experience with your childhood. How can we protect against
self loss in circumstances that might just be unjust and
unfair and out of our control.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
Oh my god, there's way too much of that right now.
And I think it's important to remember that this concept
I draw upon comes from Victor Frankel, who survived the
concentration camps. So it was written by someone who's probably
seen some of the worst of humanity. It wasn't written
by someone who didn't, who had a really nice life,
(27:32):
and for him, the last of human freedoms was his attitude.
So freedom is not always freedom of action or freedom
of feeling. Necessarily, it is like, I choose to have
this attitude despite of what is happening. And I think
at the end of the day, that's all he had.
He couldn't choose when he slept, aid, if he lived
(27:54):
or he died, what he did that day, And yet
he still argued that he was free. He had some
degree of freedom, and I think that that's a really
beautiful thing of No one can actually break that spirit
from you, know what can take away freedom fully from
you until you die In a sense of shit, things
are happening, painful things are happening, and you can still
(28:15):
kind of choose how you want to position yourself, how
you want to think about it, while your attitude is
going to be how are you going to speak to yourself?
And I think that's there's something really cool about that.
It's a very sensitive topic and there's going to be
moments where we don't feel free, and that's okay too.
I'm not saying everyone has to believe that they always
have freedom, but I do lean on the sort of
(28:36):
on that side of we probably have more freedom than
we think, even if it's just like I'm choosing my
attitude today.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I actually think that really is applicable. Whenever people say
they're feeling stuck in their careers or even just stuck
in life, you know, like stuck in a situation that
they feel like they need to move out of. We
always have agent and see, even if it's in the
smallest way.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
Yeah, I mean, I love that you just brought this up.
A lot of people that come and say they're stuck.
What they mean is they can't experience change while doing
nothing different. That's what people mean by stuck. And I'm like, yes,
you will never experience something different if you keep doing
the same thing. But I always go, let's put down
(29:25):
the consequences. Tell me all the things you could hypothetically do.
If people are like I hate my job and I'm
stuck or I hate this relationship, I'm like, what are
all the things that you could hypothetically do. They're like, well,
I can leave, I can quit, I can go up
to my boss, I can start this or that, and
so the I'm like, oh, so you do have choices,
They're like, well, and I'm like, no, what you're saying
(29:48):
is you don't want the consequences of those choices. But
don't confuse that with not having a choice, because often
we're just choosing consequences, which is okay, and you need
to think about the consequences. But I love to tell
people like, no, you do actually have the choice to
leave your partner. This is not an abuse context. We're
just talking about like someone who's like I'm stuck and
(30:08):
I'm like, who am I going to date now? And
you know, like those people are like I'm not really sure,
but like I don't want to leave, And I'll say,
you actually do have the choice to leave. You're just
choosing not to do it because of the consequence, which
means you're choosing to stay. And the fact that people
can understand that they're choosing to stay liberates them. Sometimes
(30:29):
you don't actually have to change your actions, you just
have to change your attitude towards your actions. So being
like this is a choice, this is not an obligation,
is incredibly liberating. Or then they'll realize, like, Okay, maybe
I should be a little less worried about the consequences
and recognize that I do have these choices and I
need to honor myself by trying something different.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
You are such an essential voice in this conversation today.
Thank you so much for joining us on the bright side.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Thank you Cues so much for having me. It's truly
an honor.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Doctor Sarah Kubrick is an existential psychotherapist and the author
of It's On Me. You can find her on Instagram
as the Millennial Therapist.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
That's it. For today's show, Tomorrow it is Halloween. Comedian
and podcaster Lauren Lapkis joins us to talk all things spooky.
Thank you to our partners at Coligard, the one of
a kind way to screen for colon cancer in the
privacy and comfort of your own home. Talk to your
doctor or healthcare provider, or go to coliguard dot com.
(31:39):
Slash podcast to see if you are eligible to order online.
If you're forty five or older and at average risk,
ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with Coligard.
You can also request a collar guard prescription today at
coligard dot com. Slash podcast.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Join the conversation using hashtag the Bread and connect with
us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram and
at The bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and feel
free to tag us at Simone Boyce and at Danielle Robe.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.
Host
Simone Boyce
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