January 30, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode of The Deal, Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly sit with Carolyn Tisch Blodgett, CEO and founder of Next 3 and the governor of Gotham FC. Blodgett explains why she wanted to invest in women’s professional soccer, what Peloton taught her about marketing and brand development and how her family’s ownership of the New York Giants has affected her work with Gotham.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm Jason Kelly, I'm Alex Rodriguez, and today on the Deal,
Carolyn Tish blodget. She is a fascinating figure, Alex right
at the white Hot center of sports ownership. Her family
has co owned the New York Giants for about thirty years.
She is now the lead owner of Gotham FC. That's
the NWSL franchise here in the New York, New Jersey area.
(00:33):
They have been wildly successful and she.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Is very successful. Yeah, and she has a great background.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
I mean, she was global head of marketing at Peloton
where she helped grow that market capture over thirty billion dollars.
And I actually think the set of skills that she
used there are going to really impact the way she
runs Gotham today.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Knows a lot about growing businesses and growing them fast.
All right, here's Carolyn Tish Blodget, So please introduce yourself.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
I'm Carolyn Tish Blodgett, CEO and founder of Next Three,
governor of Gotham FC, and strategic advisor to the Tish
family at the Giants.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
So, Carolyn, your signature deal.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I think it's buying Gotham FC, would you agree and
tell us about the decision to do that.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
We're jumping right in.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
We are jumping right in exactly. I thought we were
in a little warm up. No, we are jumping right in. Okay, well,
I am going to take us back for a minute
to put the Gotham deal in perspective, although I agree
it has been our signature deal so far. So my
background's in operating. I ran marketing at Pelton for four years.
My family has co owned the New York Giants for
the last thirty seven years, and so I started working
(01:54):
with my family a few years ago at the Giants.
And the idea was really to bring a lot of
the innovative things thinking that I learned from Peloton, and
bring it to a legacy organization like the Giants. And
I realized pretty quickly that obviously not news to either
of you, that sports was changing, and we as legacy owners,
had an opportunity either to kind of lean back and
(02:15):
continue to watch it, or we could lean in and
really help drive some of that innovation. And so I
brought this idea to my family of starting a sports
investment firm. It's now called Next three. To your question
on you know is Gotham the signature of it. I
would say I started next three really with the agenda
only being where do we what do we think sports
will look like in the next thirty years? You know,
(02:37):
we've been in sports for thirty years, what will the
next thirty look like? There was not a thesis or
you know, I often now get questions around women's sports
and you know, did you start this because you played
soccer growing up or you know you have a passion
for women's sports, and obviously I now do. But it
was really just meant to be what do we think
sports will look like in the future, And there was
just sign after sign that pointed to the growth of
(02:59):
women's and in particular the growth of the NWSL.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
What was that moment like where you decided to make
the investment and then essentially you got it, like you're
in charge. Tell us about sort of what it felt
like in that moment and what you were thinking.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
Yeah, so, you know, deals always take longer than you
think they're going to. So we had actually planned to
announce around the World Cup. We had planned to announce
when we were going to the playoffs. There were kind
of all these moments and then the deal didn't get finished.
It didn't get finished, so it ends up closing on
a Tuesday, or re anounced it on a Tuesday. We
wire the check on Wednesday. On Thursday, I get on
(03:38):
a plane to fly out. They were in the championship
in San Diego on Thursday. I get off the plane.
You know, I'm like still wearing my glasses, can like
barely see. I like where my one Gotham sweatshirt I have?
And we land and I get to the team hotel
and the media person pulls me aside and she's like, great,
now you're going to address the team. And I was
like wait, need and they're like, yeah, the team's having lunch,
(03:59):
you know, stand up and tell them why you're here.
And I was so nervous. I was so intimidated, Like
I'm looking at this room full of people that are on,
you know, two days away from playing in a championship game,
completely intimidated. And god knows what I said, but many
of the players came up to me after and they
all said thank you for being here. And it was
(04:22):
this moment where I realized we had so many months
to prepare for this moment, and it's going to be
so different than we thought it is. This is not,
you know, an investment in an ad tech company. This
is not even Peloton, which I did feel like I
personally threw myself into. This was so personal and I
(04:42):
know that you know, most of what we're gonna talk
about today is probably you know, how we look at
it as an investment. But I think that was the
first moment that it was so clear to me that
even just showing up and showing our commitment and the
idea that an NFL legacy family would make their first
ever next investment a sports team, in a women's soccer team,
that really said a lot.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
So walk us through how that opportunity comes does Obviously
you guys have great relationships in the investment bank community.
There's a banker just call you and say, hey, Carolyn,
there's an opportunity.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Walk us through that.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yees.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
So it actually came about there were a bunch of
other teams that had been raising money around the same time,
and so we actually looked at one of the other
teams first and then of yoursell Yeah, and we looked
at it and it was the first time we even
had We didn't even go when we started next three.
It wasn't clear to me that we were going to
invest in another team. That was not the idea. The
(05:38):
idea was again more kind of supporting companies around what
would make us better owners, you know, at the Giants,
and so we didn't even think about investing a team.
But this, this deal came across our desk and we
started looking at it, and then we started getting into
like we realized quickly, wow, there's a lot there's a
lot of exciting momentum and women's sports they're sort of
on the cusp of really you know, if a few
(06:00):
things could go differently, like this league could really be
onto something. So we started kind of going down the
path of looking at the league and we ended up
actually looking at a few different teams in the league.
Then we put our New York hat on and said,
wait a second, we are legacy New York owners. There's
a great story in our family that people often say,
when my grandfather ended up buying fifty percent of the Giants,
(06:20):
he actually had an opportunity to buy one hundred percent
of a few other teams in which would have been
a much less complicated deal. And he always said, you know,
I'm a poor kid from Brooklyn to be able to
buy fifty percent of the New York Giants. I would
take that any day over one hundred percent of you.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Know, any other team.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Great vision.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
So that was really in my head and so we
so we said, you know what if we could could
come in with to the New York team with Gotham.
And so I approached the governor's wife, Tammy Murphy, who
is the governor at the time.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I will never Phil Murphy, the New Jersey governor, and
Tammy Murphy has one Yes, Sorry.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
I should have cleared that up.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
So the Murphy started Gotham. They are the original founders
and so and there are partners. And so I went
out to New Jersey and told them why we should
be their partners. Wow, very intimidating.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yeah, what did they say? And what was your pitch?
Good question.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
So I talked about you know, our obviously our our
legacy as Giants co owners. But then I mostly actually
talked about Pelton and I talked about my experience there
and how I felt like this team was on the
precipice of being great, but it needed you know, stronger
marketing support and stronger you know, needed to be more
part of culture, and that was something that I could
uniquely bring. And Jammy's incredible. She gets more done in
(07:39):
a day than any human being.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
I believe exactly.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Yeah, yeah, and she just you know, she like cuts
to the chase. This seems like it could work. Brought
me over to Phil. We talked to Phil and that
started the conversations.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
What was the pitch back to your family? Like, what
was that process?
Speaker 5 (07:58):
Justek I made sure my family was okay with them
before she sure went to the Murphys and asked for that.
So the pitch to them, I would say. The three
kind of markers that showed us that this could be
an interesting investment were The first was around this lack
of visibility historically women's soccer. Even if there has always
been a core women's soccer fan base, small but strong,
(08:21):
but you couldn't find it on TV. So you were
never even if you were a strong, really strong fan,
you were you could either show up to a game
in person if you lived in that market, or you know,
sometimes I think they were on Lifetime in the past,
not exactly like where you're finding your average casual sports fan.
So there was no opportunity for casual sports fans to
come in. So we knew that the nwslth through a research,
(08:43):
was about to sign a new media deal. We didn't
know what it was going to look like, but we knew, okay,
what that new media deal will probably open the door
to more casual fans. The second piece was around a
lack of investment in women's sports. As you know, ninety
nine percent of investments historically in sports have gone to
the men's game. At this point, because we had looked
at a few other teams, we knew that was starting
(09:03):
to change. Legacy owners and other leagues were starting to
come into this league. There were starting to be you know,
it was starting to be better capitalized. And then the
last piece, which was a bit more of a risk
at the time and now seems kind of laughable looking back,
was this kind of lack of being in culture. So
for a long time, women's sports were just not a
part of culture. It was not something people talked about.
(09:26):
And now again, you know, a year later, I feel
like all anyone talks about is Kaitlyn Clark and that
everyone watches women's sports shirt is like the hot shirt
to be wearing around New York now, So obviously that's changed.
But that was another one where we said, Okay, is
this something that could change in the future in a
world where we're in an athlete driven world and people
and their star power and there's all these great players
(09:48):
within the league. Could that translate into growth and teams?
And so those were the three vectors that we looked
at the deal at and I brought that to my
family and they were I have to say, they again
didn't wake up thinking like I wonder if we'll buy
a women's soccer team one day, but they were incredibly
supportive from day one.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
So let's talk a little bit about the market of
New York. There's a gift in a curse.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
I was fortunate enough in two thousand and nine to
be part of a world championship team with the Yankees.
And you've experienced over the last thirty years multiple titles,
and you've tasted the glory of being a champion. However,
there's ten or eleven other teams here. How do you
think about cutting through the noise of winning a title
and not being in the front pages like the Giant
(10:32):
or the Yankees.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
Yeah, I think the way you said it is exactly right.
It's a gift in a curse. So in some ways
it's the number one media market, you know, the incredible
fandom here, but it's really crowded, as you said. So again,
two days into our ownership, we win the championship where
all I'm flying back with my family and I'm like,
it's so excited to read about it in the newspaper,
(10:53):
like everyone in the world must be talking about the
fact that Gotham just won. And we open the sports
pages and we're like, okay, it's not on the cover. Understandable, Fine,
you know, women's source is still growing, and we're like, okay,
it's not on page two. Okay, it's not a page three,
And we keep going and going, going, and there's literally
not covered. And then we open our news feeds, like
on our phones, is it on social media?
Speaker 3 (11:15):
No?
Speaker 5 (11:15):
And it's just no one was talking about it. And
I think that, really, I think crystallized that moment of Okay,
we're not in culture right now, and that is on
us to go build. So, first of all, I should
say that since then, the two winning sports teams in
New York are the women's sports teams, right sure, and
they obviously you know very much are part of culture
(11:36):
here now. But that has been part of the work
we've done in the last year is building those relationships
with the local newspapers, with people that kind of build
New York culture. We had our players drop the ball
at Times Square, we had a big media event. I
can't remember you hear that. I was at the Rainbow
Room when we introduced our free agents. So we have
been kind of brick by brick building our story in
(11:59):
New York because as hard as it is to break
into the New York sports scene, once you're in, there's
nowhere better to win a championship than New York.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
And let's talk about that because you know you mentioned
the Liberty, which you know when the twenty four finals,
Sorry too soon, No, I mean, thank you Jack. Amazing
series at the distance and you know, but one of
the things that I think was very notable, and Alex
(12:30):
and I have talked a lot about this is how
well curated the court side seats are. You know, I
went to your first ever playoff game. You go through
that suite, there are there's Eli Manning, there's Justin Tuck,
there's Rich Climan, there's Megan Rappino, Sue Bert, you know
all of these luminaries it is in the culture.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
It feels like it's suddenly in the culture. So what happened?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I mean, Caitlin Clark not with standing for the WNBA,
there's something bigger going on.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
How do you respond to that? But also how do
you help create it?
Speaker 5 (13:08):
I'm so glad you brought that up, because that was
very deliberate. We really studied. I think in the past
year when I've thought about, you know, who do we
bring in to help run this team On the business side,
it's been a real mix of in and out of sports.
And part of why we did that is because we
didn't want to just say, like, what is the typical
NWSL playbook and let's go run it back. We wanted
(13:30):
to look across all of sports outside of sports, like
who does it well in culture more broadly, and so
the person who now runs marketing for us, she looked
very closely at what does court side at the Knicks
look like? What does it mean when you go to
a Yankees or a Yankees World Series game? Who's there,
what types of people are there, what is the fan
experience like? And so that that was It's been a
(13:50):
very deliberate build. So part of it is just having
the vision to do it. The other part is the execution.
And the reason I think we've been able to execute
it well is because it all starts with having the
best product on the field and kind of putting my
marketing head on. You can't market a bad product like
you have to have the right product first. And we
knew we had that. We have some of the best
(14:12):
players in the world. We had all these Olympians that
are you know, on our team at Awtham, so we
know we have a great product. Now the job was
to go build a great fan experience around that product.
So it wasn't just ninety minutes of soccer. It was
you know, the hour before at FanFest, it was who
was in the suite, as you said, and so that
was kind of the second part was like building that
(14:33):
great experience so that when people come, whether it's your
average fan who plays local soccer or it's Eli Manning
or Superbird, that you want to be there and you
want to tell all your friends about it and you
want to come back.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Let's talk a bit about the Giants if we can.
It's probably worth about seven billion dollars. You know, if
you look at the estimates Gotham maybe less than one
hundred million dollars. They would seem incompatible from a scale perspective.
Clearly their learnings back and forth. You're spending time at both.
What are the most obvious connections that you take back
(15:20):
and forth and what are some that you know maybe
we wouldn't think of.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Yeah, when you put it like that, they do something
pretty far apart. They don't feel like it in the
day to day.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
So don't that's interesting? So it feels similar?
Speaker 5 (15:34):
Well, I would say the challenges feel different, but maybe
like my personal passion for both feel similar. Maybe we'll
say that. So I would say that probably the most
clear synergies are just the learning sharing going on between
the two. So as we're building up the business staff
at Gotham for them to be able to call people
at the Giants and say like, hey, how do you
(15:56):
think about, you know, selling sponsorships, how we're thinking about
putting in like a new CRM system, How did you
guys think about that? Even on the soccer side, we
are GM and I spoke to Aaron Wellman, who's the
head of performance at the Giants, just about like, how
do you put a medical staff together. So the idea
that you can at any point when you have a question,
you can pick up the phone and have a resource
(16:16):
there to call is really fantastic and.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
They know that, they just know that that's available to them.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
You just you created that so that you say, do
you need something at the Giants, just I'll connect to you.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Like, how does that work in practice?
Speaker 5 (16:30):
Yes, yeah, that's a good question. Yes, So I created
that from the beginning, and part of it I think
was built allowing the Gotham team to build the respect
with the Giants organization so that they didn't feel like, oh,
who is this person calling me? It's like they have
they feel vested in it. And it's actually been amazing
to see how many Giants employees have become Gotham fans.
And every time about the Giants' offices for work, often
(16:52):
people came running over to me and I think they're
there to talk to me about something about the Giants,
and they really just want to talk about Gotham. So
that's really hap.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
They're probably talking to you about them fair fair.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
Too soon, I think, but yes, you're probably right. Yes,
So there is this sort of you know, great syndergies.
I would say, kind of behind the scenes on the
business side, the things that I think that I hadn't
really because to your point, you know, the valuations are
very different. The tenure the Giants are celebrating their hundredth anniversary.
Gotham is, you know, a couple of years in. Is
(17:25):
the way that we think about fandom is so different.
Yet I think there's really great learnings across them. So,
for example, in the NFL, fandom is often generational. You know,
you're a Giants fan because your father was a Giants
fan and your grandfather was a Giants fan, and maybe
there was a female fan in there, but it was
probably your father and your grandfather. So it's very you know,
(17:46):
it's passed down. It's very geographic. It's like you're a
Giants fan because that's who you could watch on TV
because you lived in New York or you still live
in New York. At Gotham, we're really building fandom from
the ground up. Soccer is the number one sport played
amongst youth in this country. So often parents are learning
about soccer through their kids, and their kids play soccer
(18:09):
and then they don't. Actually, that doesn't just because you
play in your local soccer team doesn't necessarily translate to
oh and then I go watch my favorite soccer team
on TV or I go to a game. And so
that's what we're trying to do at Gotham is build
that kind of ground up fandom. However, there's actually a
lot to be you know, both teams could benefit from
the other and so there are families where Soccer's is generational,
(18:33):
So how do we bring that fandom to Gotham and
then at the Giants figuring out how do you get
you know, a next generation of fans that may not
have that in their blood. It might not be passed down,
but needs to be built from the ground up. There's
a lot of great lessons in there.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Talk about fandom. Staying on that subject, over the last
thirty years, your family have caned the Giants and we
understand very clearly how fans consume content. How do you
think about it with your Peloton background, the next five
to ten, even thirty years, how does that look and
how different is it than the past thirty?
Speaker 5 (19:08):
Yeah, I think this is actually one of the things
we were really excited about in our Gotham investment was
the way that people are consuming sports is so different now.
The avidity is still there, but it might not be
that you sit and watch a whole four hour game.
You're probably connecting through social media. You're probably connecting through athletes.
There is this sort of athlete driven I don't need
(19:29):
to tell you this, there's this you know, athlete driven
culture now. And so that if you think about that
from a giant's perspective, that is leaning into digital, that
is leaning into social, that really sets us up well
at Gotham. There's when I was at Peloton, that was
one of the early insights we realized as people would
walk around saying like, I love Pelton, I love Peloton,
(19:50):
and then when you ask them a follow up question,
it always gets to I love Ali love or I
love Robin. I can't end my day without Cody. And
so we saw an opportunity to build the Peloton brand,
but to build it via our stars, via our instructors.
And that's very much something we're thinking about at Gotham
is we want to continue to build love for the
Gossam brand. One of the ways we can do that
(20:11):
is to help tell the stories of our incredible players
both on and off the field, and use and take
the love for Rose Level and bring that to Gotham
as well.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
And so let's talk about Peloton, because it's clearly formative
for you. And I would love to go back sort
of to the beginning, because you know, you go to Yale,
then you go to Harvard Business School, you come out,
you work for PepsiCo, you don't go into the family business,
and then you go to what's then a relatively unknown
(20:44):
startup called Peloton. Tell us about that decision and what
did you experience when.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
You got there.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
So I might just take us back from one moment
because I actually thought that I wanted I was going
to go work at the Giants. I did some I
just had a baby, and I left PEPs and I
started doing a little consulting work for the Giants, and
it didn't It was what I always thought I wanted
to do, and it, for variety of reasons, just didn't
feel right at that moment. They were very focused on
what was happening on the football side, and I was
(21:12):
kind of bringing these like new innovative ideas and it
just it didn't feel right. And the reason I bring
that up is because I probably would have never landed
at Peloton had that experience not happened because I had
really built my entire career wanting to go work at
the team, and then I got there and it didn't
really work right. So then I was very open to
sort of like, all right, I'll try anything because I
(21:33):
don't really know what my path looks like now. And
so I go to Peloton. And I had always been
sort of personally passionate about fitness, but didn't really see
that as a career necessarily. And I had so many
friends from business school in particular at the time being like,
what are you doing? Why are you doing that? Like
or have you gotten crazy? Is this like an early
mid life crisis? And the early days I just I'd
(21:57):
never worked at a startup, and so the early days,
you know, I came in under a brand marketing title,
under a CMO who then left pretty quickly after I started.
So then was given a much larger set of responsibilities
and it was just to roll up your sleeves and
figure it out as you go.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
And the founder and CEO, John Foley, what was it
in that first meeting? What did he say that you said, Okay,
I gotta come work here.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
So John, in the first meeting, he said, We're going
to go build one of the best brands in the world.
And I'm sitting there in this we work on twenty
ninth in Madison, when no one had ever heard of them,
and at the time it was you know, this was
like the Soul cycle, Flywheel, heyday. So Pelton was this
like distant third And I left and I called my
(22:44):
husband and I was like, Okay, he might be crazy,
but he also might be right.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
And I think it's a yes, and it's a.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Yes, Yes, that's probably right. That's probably true.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
And I love Dolly and I would say yes, day, Yes,
that's a.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Lot of every founders a lot crazy. Yeah, feel might
say that about me too. So anyway, it just the
opportunity to have that vision of we're literally in a
startup where thousands of investors have told you, no, we're
selling you know, at that point, we'd sold maybe one
hundred bikes. I mean, this was nothing. And he's sitting
there saying we're going to We're not just like we're
going to be a successful company, but we're going to
(23:23):
be one of the most I think he actually didn't
just say best, he said one of the most important
brands in the world, and I thought, wow, I don't
know how we're going to do that, but I love
to be a part of it.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
So Jase, I do have a quick follow up on that,
because I remember in the Covid days the stock market
cap went up to like thirty five billion or so
plus or minus. Looking back in retrospect, for our viewers,
what is the lesson What could John and your team
have done to keep it at that level or keep
it like a really strong business.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
So I left in twenty twenty, so I just mindful
I was not there in those moments. I was there
in the peak and then not in the bull. I
think one of the challenges I think for a peloton
is there was there were always a lot of questions
around what our TAM was, So what was our total
(24:14):
addressable market? How big could this thing get? What Covid
did was accelerate the growth so fast that I think
it questioned what that TAM was. And so there were
people buying bikes that would have never thought about buying
a bike before, but it was Covid. You couldn't leave,
you couldn't go to the gym, and so I think
(24:36):
one of the lessons was, you know, being really thoughtful
around what the sustainable tam was. Like we always knew
at some points the pandemic would end, So like what
is the addressable market outside of a pandemic and really
anchor the business in That would be my lesson.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
And so as you look back on the you know,
you talked about sort of the star instructors, but there's
also this this moment of fast growth and you know,
seizing the moment as it were, which does lead to
this question of sustainability for the growth of women's sports
and women's soccer. How do you think about that? What
(25:18):
worries you? Like, what are the things that could get
in the way.
Speaker 5 (25:22):
Yeah, we talk a lot at ARCHAEMC Gotham now about
sustainable growth and what does that look like? I think
I go back to something I said earlier about like
making sure you're the best product first, because the only
way that a marketing funnel that is built on word
of mouth works is when there's no leak in the bucket, right,
(25:43):
So like if you think of a marketing funnel of like, oh,
where you know, I find out about it, I consider it,
I try it, and then ideally, which I think is
what's happening with us at Gotham and happened with us
A Peltin is like, oh, and then I love it
so much, I'm going to come back and I'm going
to tell all my friends if people are churning at
the bottom. If people come to a game, they buy
a Pelton bike and they don't like it, they stop
(26:03):
using it so they stop paying. Or if people come
to a Gotham game and don't have a good experience
and don't come back, that whole model breaks down. And
so when I think about sustainability, I think about ensuring
that that product is great first. And I don't just
mean we're winning games, although obviously that helps. I mean
the fan experience, the way we show up, you know,
(26:23):
how people interact with our players on social media, and like,
it's kind of the whole product. I would call it.
That has to be right first for the rest of
it to follow.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
And I wonder if you think about this too, Alex,
this notion of.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
You know, you control your team, and you know when
you have ultimate decision making authority when it comes to
that you and your team, and yet you're also part
of a collective group of people who are making decisions
on behalf of the league, and you know you've been
a part of this, Alex and obviously you're experiencing this
(27:00):
now with the NWSL. What is that like to try
and get everybody and to be an influential voice in
a room of governors, which you are.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
So that's been something that's been so interesting about this league.
And I had heard it coming in and I very
much seen it and feel it for myself too. Is
there's the owners around the tables. Many own other teams
in other leagues as well, and or have other big businesses.
Many spend a disproportionate amount of their time on their
(27:32):
NWSL team than they do on other things. Interesting kind
of to your point on like the seven billion versus
one hundred million of like, yes, in theory that would
mean you shouldn't spend time on one hundred million, and
I'd probably spend more time on that than anything else.
So there's this feeling of you know, people are spending
a disproportion amount of time on it. The question is why,
I think there's a general feeling of we all see
(27:55):
what this can be. We're all here for a reason,
we all believe in what this league can look like. However,
that is not going to happen by any of us
leaning back. We all need to Everybody needs to do
their part, and whether that's you know, put on the
being on the commercial committee and pushing on that, whether
it's on the sporting committee and thinking about how do
you keep having a competitive product on the field. Whatever,
(28:16):
those decisions are that you're kind of leading as a
governor for the league are so critical because we are
quite literally creating the future of the league with the
decisions we're making now, are dictating what the future of
the league is going to look like. So I think
all of us feel this responsibility to really lean in
and engage in the league and think about and make
(28:36):
decisions that are not just right for our teams, but
right for the better the you know, the entire group.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
What's been something as now a governor, a recent governor
that has surprised you on the good side and some
things that are a little bit more challenging than you
even expected.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
I think one thing that has really surprised me is
this collaboration across owners. I think ironically now I'm kind
of one of like the more tenured owners, even though
I have been there for a year because there's been
so much ownership. But there's been this feeling, I think
from day one, of we will all win when the
other teams win too. And so when Willow Bay just
(29:17):
came in an Angel City a few wants to go,
you know, I immediately reached out to her and said, like,
here's my phone number, call me anytime I want to
help you. I want Angel City to succeed because Gotham
will succeed when Angel Cities, just using them as an example,
will succeed. And I had other owners do the same
for me, and so there is this, you know, collective
feeling we have. All the CBOs spend a lot of
(29:39):
time together, the chief business officers, and they'll even on
things like sponsorship, which in theory you're kind of competing
with each other. They'll discuss the deal with each other
because we know that if Bay is out there, not
that they would be doing this, but like selling at
a lower price than we're selling it that hurts each other.
And so we all are in this together, and so
(29:59):
there's been this real kind of we're all better when,
you know, when we're all helping each other feeling that
I surprised me. I thought of it as a more like, oh,
we're competitors on the field, so we're competitors always, and
it is very much not felt that way.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
You know, sort of going back to this sort of
synergies for a second between Gotham and the Giants. I mean,
I wonder, as you're going through some of these decisions
or decision making processes at Gotham, are you calling your
uncle and being like, hey, I'm running into this. Have
you run into this over the past thirty years? Like
what are some inflection points that you think might be similar?
(30:49):
Because NFL thirty years ago it was big, but it
wasn't anything like it is now.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
Right right, Yeah, I think there's been this very open
you know, across there's also a fair amount of NFL
owners within the league as well. Mark Wilf and I
both sit on the executive committee at the end of
us OLT together. And what's actually interesting is that then
there's also owners from NBA teams, so David Blitzer is
also on the executive committees. There's MLB owners with the Ricketts.
So there's been this great ability, I think for everyone
(31:19):
to come with their individual their like other league perspective,
but also with a feeling of we don't have to follow, like,
let's go take the best of what everyone else does
and also chart our own path. And so there's this
really you know, interesting shared learning happening where for any
given question, it's okay, well Mark's going to tell you
(31:39):
how it's done at the NFL, and David's going to
tell you how it's done the NBA, and but let's
actually pause and think do we want to do it
any of those ways or do we want to do
it differently? And that's been a really productive conversation.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
And so your work with the Giants is interesting too.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
You know, the day that that got them hosted its
first ever home playoff game, you were meant to be
in Germany with the Giants because they were playing I
believe their first international game.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Is that right?
Speaker 5 (32:11):
They played in London in Germany.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
First in Germany. Excuse me.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
You have been a huge proponent of that inside the
Giants organization.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Talk to us.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
About that, especially as it feels like it illustrates part
of what your role.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Is within the Giants.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
Yeah, that day gave new meaning to trying to be
in two places at once. It did not work, but
I had been in Germany and then I left to
come home for the Golfen game. So yeah, one of
the things that I've tried to bring to the Giants
is again this sort of like how do you build
a modern brand perspective that I gained a Peloton and
so international is a big piece of that. Fandom in
(32:48):
the NFL again has been generational, as I said, but
it's also been very geographically defined. You were a Giants
fan because you live in New York and there's really
only the just you know, to compete with now as
you think about you and be a fan from anywhere.
If you're a fan because you're a fan of a player,
if Patrick Mahomes is your favorite player, doesn't matter that
you don't live in Kansas City. You're a Kansas City Chiefs.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Fan and may never go to a Kansas City Chiefs
game and may.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
Never go to a game. That's a really important point too.
You could be the most dedicated fan on Earth and
never go to a game. So how do you build
that relationship with fans that are never going to walk
into your stadium. That's really different, and I do think
actually there are a lot of lessons from Peloton in
that we had. You know, in our early days of Peloton,
everyone knew the instructors, you know personally, they would give
(33:33):
them a hug after the game. The instructors were giving
them shout outs in class. As we scaled, we had
to professionalize it. Instructors were kind of cordoned off from
the members and so that kind of like the growing
pains of that, you know, changed over time. So anyway
back to the Giants being in Germany, so building a
global brand that is where the NFL is going, and
how the Giants show up and do that. I think
(33:54):
there are a lot of lessons from the Peloton. There's
a lot of lessons even from Gotham of how do
you go build old fandom when you don't have the
geographic roots. Because we are in Germany, we are competing.
Kansas City is a good example. They have the rights
to Germany as well. We're as much competing with Kansas
City as we are you know in New York with
the Jets.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Right.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
You know what's interesting about the way that male and
female consume content and get really excited about it. I
find that some of my boys are only about wins
and losses, right, They don't care about you know sports radio,
and when I talk to my daughters about the Links
or Gotham or any team, what gets them excited is
a storytelling and that's a way to connect. What ways
(34:37):
are you thinking about from your players to connect to
your fan base to help grow their brand.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (34:43):
I think you bring up such a good point around
storytelling and content that is increasingly I think we see
for all of our fans that telling those stories they
are players have such interesting stories to tell. I read
something interesting recently around actually female athletes are so much
better at story telling then male athletes. So you do
again back to the kind of the investment thesis around
(35:04):
like we're in an athlete driven world, We're in a
content driven world. You have female athletes like you could
you know the writings on the wall of where that
could go. So content is is a really big piece
of it. And telling those stories, you know, to your point,
not just who they are on the field, but who
they are off the field. We have one of our
players as a cancer survivor, we need to tell that story.
We have players who are incredibly into fashion and they
(35:27):
were at the front row of fashion weeks, so we
need to tell that story. Rose level. One of our
players has this dog who has sort of like gone viral.
The dog sort of has its own personality and Instagram.
So being able to tell those stories and really kind
of explain who our players are in the rest of
their lives is really key to our growth story.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
So, speaking of content, you know, one of the interesting
decisions the Giants made, and I know you're very involved
in sort of the marketing side, in the brand side,
was Hard Knocks off season, which went viral in a
lot of ways. Really truly behind the scenes on some
very big decisions, including Saquon.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Barkley going to the Eagles.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Talk about that strategy, how it works for the Giants,
and then what you take away for something like Gotham.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
Yeah, so that doing more kind of what I would
call like off helmet content is something that I've been
really passionate about it and talking to the Giants about
for a long time. If you look at shows like
Drive to Survive, they were really the first to do it.
It introduced a new audience into a sport that might
have not been appealing for a lot of people. There
are the number of people who texted me after Hard
(36:37):
Knocks and said like Wow, I never thought I would
ever watch the NFL before, and it's just a way
to bring in a new audience, introduce the players, and
introduce the brand in a really different way. And so
that is something that I think the NFL will continue
to do and we absolutely look at it Gotham as
well as and how do we tell those stories in
(36:59):
a different way so that you bring in a casual fan.
The NFL is always going to have their hardcore at
football fans, but there is a whole world of casual
sports fans that you can bring in by doing this
type of content.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Yeah, I think about you know, Midge Purse, who is
you know, like Forgotham was a guest on this show
and her show off season, you know, was a completely
different view of the NWSL and female soccer players, which
I think literally had never happened to that totoint.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
There was there was not a show like that before that.
There was there was no model out there.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
So I do want to go back to this idea
of what happens next for the for the NWSL, because
you know, we've talked a lot about the the WNBA.
We've had kandas Parker super Bird on this show, you know,
the overnight sensation of the WNBA after twenty eight years,
you know, everybody really coming on to it. NWSL is
a little bit not as far along in its journey,
(37:55):
a couple failed leagues, you know, on the way here.
What is the next thing that has to happen and
what do you worry about?
Speaker 5 (38:03):
So we talked to you know, a lot about you know,
starting with the product. I think that next step then
is the fan. So how do you get fans to
show up to games? Yeah, and I think about my
time again kind of going back to my peloton days.
Is we had to create a category. No one was
sitting around thinking like I wish I could go buy
a bike that streamed my favorite spin class in my
(38:25):
living room. We literally wrote the term connected fitness, which
is now you know, a term.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (38:31):
Not that we are inventing women's soccer at Gotham obvious
at the league obviously that has existed for a long time,
but we are this kind of the point of breaking
into culture. We have to go create this category. We
have to go create the demand for people to come.
There are the core fans, but to break out and
get and fill stadiums and sell out over and over.
We have to go create that demand. So again I
(38:52):
go back to this idea of like, we have a
great product, now we have to go create a great
fan experience around it in game. Then we have to
think about the three hundred and sixty five days a year,
how do we build that, you know, fandom and that
relationship with fans. I think consumers come first, and you're
starting to see that we had record breaking attendance at
our first ever playoff game. I know the Washington Spirits
sold out. I think Kansas City has sold out all
(39:13):
of their games this year, So you are starting to
see the fandom there. That is kind of I would
say step one and how we think about it at Gotham.
I think then sponsorship and partnerships like those come later. Typically,
I think you do see brands kind of follow like
consumers always go first. But I would say in terms
of like what are the risks, what are the opportunities,
(39:34):
I think that is like the next step to come.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
So the risk is people just stop showing up.
Speaker 5 (39:39):
Well, yes, I mean in theory, of course, there is.
We look at a metric called net promoter score. It's
again a tech metric that we brought into women's soccer
and our NPS score. So NPS has measured one hundred
to negative one hundred, So a score of zero is
actually not that bad. Our scores are typically in the
high eighties. That isn't a believable score. Apple, I think
(40:02):
is like sixty. I want to say Starbucks is in
the seventies. And these are really high numbers. So people
want when they come to the game, they want to
come back. Yes, in theory, it could all fall apart
and people could stop showing up.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
You've got to get them there.
Speaker 5 (40:19):
We have to get them there, and I think that
has been probably the biggest challenge from the beginning and
why we've been so deliberate about, you know, finding new
ways to get people there. There's always been this debate
within the league of like do you do comps do
not do comps. I've been a big believer in comps because, again,
if you go back to.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
The meaning complimentary tickets, giving out complimentary tickets Storr delivery, yes, sorry.
Speaker 5 (40:41):
Complimentary tickets because it is not on people's radar on
day one. So if you get them there and you
kind of bring them into that marketing funnel, they will
come back.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
I do want to talk a little bit about what's
next for next three?
Speaker 3 (40:55):
First of all, is next three? Next three? Decades? Is that?
Speaker 1 (40:57):
What?
Speaker 3 (40:58):
What is it? Next three? People? What is next three?
Speaker 5 (41:00):
So next three? My husband actually came up with the name.
When you play pick up basketball, which I don't frequently
but he does, I guess are used to when you
win a game, then the person will say like, all right,
next three up. And it's this idea of like, all right,
you one. Now you're thinking about like what's the next
who are the next three? You're playing like we're leaning
(41:20):
into the future. It is clever. I wish I could
say it more concisely.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Talk to me a little bit about you know some
of your ops, how do you think about pitching it,
you know, outside of your family? And also how do
you deal with being a control partner? And most funds
have the burden investment and exit? How do you know
go through those challenges?
Speaker 5 (41:43):
Yes, so I'm definitely I'm not an investor. I'm now
sitting here today, I'm like, I wish I had taken
those classes in business school. I did not. So it
is just our family. So the LP so it's my mom,
Laurie Tish, her two brothers, John and Steve, who are
the three owners of the Giants, and then everyone in
my generation, all my cousins, my sister and my cousins.
(42:03):
So I think we have the benefit of really running
it more like a family office than a fund, which means,
to your point, we're not necessarily thinking about the exit.
We're not even obviously we are returns driven, but we're
not just returns driven. And I think that's been really
important in how we've looked at investments, because every investment
(42:24):
we look at, we ask ourselves the question, why are
we on the cap table? Why are we the ones
sitting here today? And if the answer is they just
want capital, then we're probably we're not going to do
the deal because there are plenty of people that are
better investors probably then have a larger team to invest
than we do. The reason where they are often is
because of my experience at Peloton and or our legacy
(42:48):
co ownership of the Giants, and now increasingly because of
our role at Gotham. And so the reason I say
all that is because we look at investments sometimes because
we think it will make us better at the rest
of our jobs, and so We've looked at investments that
will potentially make us better NFL owners will teach us
(43:08):
about what One of our investments is this company called
transmit Live, which they help kind of run the back
end of ad tech as sports move to streaming. They
run a lot of the ad tech in advertising for streaming. Anyway,
the reason I bring that up is I hope it
does well, and it actually is doing very well. We
also did that investment because sports will continue to move
(43:30):
to streaming and media deals are an increasingly important part
of the valuations around owning teams, and so for us
to get smart on what that looks like makes us
better owners and makes us be able to have more
intelligent conversations, you know, sitting around boardroom. So a lot
of the deals we look at, we are there again
for the returns, but we're also there because of what
(43:52):
we're learning.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
So Karena, stayin on next three.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
What do you see in the future, I mean, can
you see another team, can you see your show of minustake,
WNBA team or anything else.
Speaker 5 (44:04):
We're still actively looking at investments. I think the past
year has been a bit of a heads down, Like
we got to get Gotham to where it needs to be.
But we're I say to my team every day, we
were very deliberately. We didn't start Next three to buy Gotham,
and we're we started Next three because we want to
be at the forefront of where sports is going. Women's
sports and women's soccer is very much a part of that,
(44:26):
but it's not the only place sports are going. So
we are still actively looking at other things. I don't
know what those will be yet, but we continue to
believe that there is more happening in sports that we
want to be a part of.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
You know, obviously both of you have this shared experience
of you know, getting into ownership. Has going into Gotham
like changed your personal visibility?
Speaker 3 (44:48):
Like do you feel like you're sort of out there more?
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Because I don't know if I'm asking this well, but
you know, with the Giants, it's like it's your family,
but for Gotham, like you're you're the face, Like you know,
you're the you're the person like on the JumboTron when
they cut to the owner's box.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
To see to see the reaction. What's that been like
for you?
Speaker 5 (45:08):
Yeah, I don't think I realized that was going to
be that it was going to be that. I think
when we decided again, I thought it was a good deal.
I thought it was you know, I thought it was
a good thing for our family to be in. I
don't think I realized how much it was personally going
it was going to be tied to my personal identity.
The number of messages I get from you know, old
(45:29):
friends in college or business school that will just kind
of randomly reach out to me and say like, thank
you for what you're doing for women's sports. And I
now take that really seriously. And I didn't. You know, again,
we we bought got them because we thought it was
a good investment. I don't think I appreciated how much
(45:49):
I now feel trum. I've always felt tremendous well, I've
always felt tremendous pressure. It's probably why I'm so type A,
but I've always felt tremendous pressure since starting Next three
to deliver the returns to my family, to you know,
to make good investments. I now feel a tremendous pressure
to help grow women's sports. And that's a different level
of pressure. Is I now feel like this kind of
(46:11):
societal pressure and cultural pressure to realize, like I think
we all are clear on what the dream is for
women's sports, and I feel very responsible for the execution
of that. So it is a different you know, it
was not. It was not what I thought would be.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
All Right, we're going to move to our rapid fire segment.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
This is fun, We're going to keep it tight and
we'll just bounce back and forth and you know, answer
however you see fit?
Speaker 3 (46:44):
All right? What's one word to describe your deal making style?
Speaker 5 (46:47):
Unconventional?
Speaker 3 (46:49):
What's more important your gut, instinct or data?
Speaker 5 (46:53):
Well, I'm the most indecisive person on earth, so I
would say both.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Okay, perfect.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
What's your best piece of advice you've ever received on
deal making or business?
Speaker 5 (47:02):
Create a culture where you would want to work.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
What's the worst advice you've ever been given that.
Speaker 5 (47:09):
This was going to be easy?
Speaker 3 (47:12):
What's your hype song before a big meeting or big negotiation.
Speaker 5 (47:15):
Well, I mostly only listen to my kids like Taylor
Swift albums, so probably so Taylor Swift version.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
That's fair. Do you have a go to peloton instructor?
Speaker 5 (47:23):
I did go on the Peloton today with Robin Love
Robin Robin Arzon.
Speaker 4 (47:27):
If you can only watch one sport for the rest
of your life, Which one is it?
Speaker 3 (47:31):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (47:31):
My kids always ask me football or soccer. It's so stressful.
Probably football.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Still, what team do you want to see win a
championship more than any is a tough one for gotam.
Speaker 4 (47:41):
Do you have a fun fact about yourself that your
colleagues would be surprised to hear?
Speaker 5 (47:47):
I am a vegetarian because my sister used to moo
at me at the table because she was a vegetarian
and she believed me into be hamming one too.
Speaker 3 (47:56):
Perfect, That's true.
Speaker 5 (47:59):
I'm here.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
Ye, Well, this was really fun. Thank you, thank you,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly.
Our producers are Anamazarakus, Stacey Wong, and Lizzie Phillip. Original
music and engineering by Blake Maples. Our managing editor is
David E. Ravella. Our executive producers are Jason Kelly, Brendan Francis, Neonham,
(48:34):
Jordan Opplinger, Trey Shallowhorn, Kyle Kramer, Andrew Barden, Kelly Laferrier,
and Ashley Hoenig. Sage Bauman is our head of Podcasts.
Additional support from Rachel Carnivali and Elena sos Angeles. Joshua
Devaux is our director of photography. Rubob Shakir is our
(48:54):
creative director. Art direction is from Jacqueline Kessler, Casting by
Julia Mann, Camera operation by Crystal Jefferson, Holly Fisher and
Gaby Demotase. Alex Brown is our gaffer, and Max Garstak
and Maximo Maluso are our grips. Our production assistant is
Gabriella Demotase. Alex Diaconus is our video editor. Listen to
(49:19):
the Deal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get
your podcasts. You can also tune into the video Companion
on Bloomberg Originals and on Bloomberg TV. Thanks for listening.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm Jason Kelly, I'm Alex Rodriguez, and today on the Deal,
Carolyn Tish blodget. She is a fascinating figure, Alex right
at the white Hot center of sports ownership. Her family
has co owned the New York Giants for about thirty years.
She is now the lead owner of Gotham FC. That's
the NWSL franchise here in the New York, New Jersey area.
(00:33):
They have been wildly successful and she.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Is very successful. Yeah, and she has a great background.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
I mean, she was global head of marketing at Peloton
where she helped grow that market capture over thirty billion dollars.
And I actually think the set of skills that she
used there are going to really impact the way she
runs Gotham today.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Knows a lot about growing businesses and growing them fast.
All right, here's Carolyn Tish Blodget, So please introduce yourself.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
I'm Carolyn Tish Blodgett, CEO and founder of Next Three,
governor of Gotham FC, and strategic advisor to the Tish
family at the Giants.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
So, Carolyn, your signature deal.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I think it's buying Gotham FC, would you agree and
tell us about the decision to do that.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
We're jumping right in.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
We are jumping right in exactly. I thought we were
in a little warm up. No, we are jumping right in. Okay, well,
I am going to take us back for a minute
to put the Gotham deal in perspective, although I agree
it has been our signature deal so far. So my
background's in operating. I ran marketing at Pelton for four years.
My family has co owned the New York Giants for
the last thirty seven years, and so I started working
(01:54):
with my family a few years ago at the Giants.
And the idea was really to bring a lot of
the innovative things thinking that I learned from Peloton, and
bring it to a legacy organization like the Giants. And
I realized pretty quickly that obviously not news to either
of you, that sports was changing, and we as legacy owners,
had an opportunity either to kind of lean back and
(02:15):
continue to watch it, or we could lean in and
really help drive some of that innovation. And so I
brought this idea to my family of starting a sports
investment firm. It's now called Next three. To your question
on you know is Gotham the signature of it. I
would say I started next three really with the agenda
only being where do we what do we think sports
will look like in the next thirty years? You know,
(02:37):
we've been in sports for thirty years, what will the
next thirty look like? There was not a thesis or
you know, I often now get questions around women's sports
and you know, did you start this because you played
soccer growing up or you know you have a passion
for women's sports, and obviously I now do. But it
was really just meant to be what do we think
sports will look like in the future, And there was
just sign after sign that pointed to the growth of
(02:59):
women's and in particular the growth of the NWSL.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
What was that moment like where you decided to make
the investment and then essentially you got it, like you're
in charge. Tell us about sort of what it felt
like in that moment and what you were thinking.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
Yeah, so, you know, deals always take longer than you
think they're going to. So we had actually planned to
announce around the World Cup. We had planned to announce
when we were going to the playoffs. There were kind
of all these moments and then the deal didn't get finished.
It didn't get finished, so it ends up closing on
a Tuesday, or re anounced it on a Tuesday. We
wire the check on Wednesday. On Thursday, I get on
(03:38):
a plane to fly out. They were in the championship
in San Diego on Thursday. I get off the plane.
You know, I'm like still wearing my glasses, can like
barely see. I like where my one Gotham sweatshirt I have?
And we land and I get to the team hotel
and the media person pulls me aside and she's like, great,
now you're going to address the team. And I was
like wait, need and they're like, yeah, the team's having lunch,
(03:59):
you know, stand up and tell them why you're here.
And I was so nervous. I was so intimidated, Like
I'm looking at this room full of people that are on,
you know, two days away from playing in a championship game,
completely intimidated. And god knows what I said, but many
of the players came up to me after and they
all said thank you for being here. And it was
(04:22):
this moment where I realized we had so many months
to prepare for this moment, and it's going to be
so different than we thought it is. This is not,
you know, an investment in an ad tech company. This
is not even Peloton, which I did feel like I
personally threw myself into. This was so personal and I
(04:42):
know that you know, most of what we're gonna talk
about today is probably you know, how we look at
it as an investment. But I think that was the
first moment that it was so clear to me that
even just showing up and showing our commitment and the
idea that an NFL legacy family would make their first
ever next investment a sports team, in a women's soccer team,
that really said a lot.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
So walk us through how that opportunity comes does Obviously
you guys have great relationships in the investment bank community.
There's a banker just call you and say, hey, Carolyn,
there's an opportunity.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Walk us through that.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yees.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
So it actually came about there were a bunch of
other teams that had been raising money around the same time,
and so we actually looked at one of the other
teams first and then of yoursell Yeah, and we looked
at it and it was the first time we even
had We didn't even go when we started next three.
It wasn't clear to me that we were going to
invest in another team. That was not the idea. The
(05:38):
idea was again more kind of supporting companies around what
would make us better owners, you know, at the Giants,
and so we didn't even think about investing a team.
But this, this deal came across our desk and we
started looking at it, and then we started getting into
like we realized quickly, wow, there's a lot there's a
lot of exciting momentum and women's sports they're sort of
on the cusp of really you know, if a few
(06:00):
things could go differently, like this league could really be
onto something. So we started kind of going down the
path of looking at the league and we ended up
actually looking at a few different teams in the league.
Then we put our New York hat on and said,
wait a second, we are legacy New York owners. There's
a great story in our family that people often say,
when my grandfather ended up buying fifty percent of the Giants,
(06:20):
he actually had an opportunity to buy one hundred percent
of a few other teams in which would have been
a much less complicated deal. And he always said, you know,
I'm a poor kid from Brooklyn to be able to
buy fifty percent of the New York Giants. I would
take that any day over one hundred percent of you.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Know, any other team.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Great vision.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
So that was really in my head and so we
so we said, you know what if we could could
come in with to the New York team with Gotham.
And so I approached the governor's wife, Tammy Murphy, who
is the governor at the time.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I will never Phil Murphy, the New Jersey governor, and
Tammy Murphy has one Yes, Sorry.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
I should have cleared that up.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
So the Murphy started Gotham. They are the original founders
and so and there are partners. And so I went
out to New Jersey and told them why we should
be their partners. Wow, very intimidating.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yeah, what did they say? And what was your pitch?
Good question.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
So I talked about you know, our obviously our our
legacy as Giants co owners. But then I mostly actually
talked about Pelton and I talked about my experience there
and how I felt like this team was on the
precipice of being great, but it needed you know, stronger
marketing support and stronger you know, needed to be more
part of culture, and that was something that I could
uniquely bring. And Jammy's incredible. She gets more done in
(07:39):
a day than any human being.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
I believe exactly.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Yeah, yeah, and she just you know, she like cuts
to the chase. This seems like it could work. Brought
me over to Phil. We talked to Phil and that
started the conversations.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
What was the pitch back to your family? Like, what
was that process?
Speaker 5 (07:58):
Justek I made sure my family was okay with them
before she sure went to the Murphys and asked for that.
So the pitch to them, I would say. The three
kind of markers that showed us that this could be
an interesting investment were The first was around this lack
of visibility historically women's soccer. Even if there has always
been a core women's soccer fan base, small but strong,
(08:21):
but you couldn't find it on TV. So you were
never even if you were a strong, really strong fan,
you were you could either show up to a game
in person if you lived in that market, or you know,
sometimes I think they were on Lifetime in the past,
not exactly like where you're finding your average casual sports fan.
So there was no opportunity for casual sports fans to
come in. So we knew that the nwslth through a research,
(08:43):
was about to sign a new media deal. We didn't
know what it was going to look like, but we knew, okay,
what that new media deal will probably open the door
to more casual fans. The second piece was around a
lack of investment in women's sports. As you know, ninety
nine percent of investments historically in sports have gone to
the men's game. At this point, because we had looked
at a few other teams, we knew that was starting
(09:03):
to change. Legacy owners and other leagues were starting to
come into this league. There were starting to be you know,
it was starting to be better capitalized. And then the
last piece, which was a bit more of a risk
at the time and now seems kind of laughable looking back,
was this kind of lack of being in culture. So
for a long time, women's sports were just not a
part of culture. It was not something people talked about.
(09:26):
And now again, you know, a year later, I feel
like all anyone talks about is Kaitlyn Clark and that
everyone watches women's sports shirt is like the hot shirt
to be wearing around New York now, So obviously that's changed.
But that was another one where we said, Okay, is
this something that could change in the future in a
world where we're in an athlete driven world and people
and their star power and there's all these great players
(09:48):
within the league. Could that translate into growth and teams?
And so those were the three vectors that we looked
at the deal at and I brought that to my
family and they were I have to say, they again
didn't wake up thinking like I wonder if we'll buy
a women's soccer team one day, but they were incredibly
supportive from day one.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
So let's talk a little bit about the market of
New York. There's a gift in a curse.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
I was fortunate enough in two thousand and nine to
be part of a world championship team with the Yankees.
And you've experienced over the last thirty years multiple titles,
and you've tasted the glory of being a champion. However,
there's ten or eleven other teams here. How do you
think about cutting through the noise of winning a title
and not being in the front pages like the Giant
(10:32):
or the Yankees.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
Yeah, I think the way you said it is exactly right.
It's a gift in a curse. So in some ways
it's the number one media market, you know, the incredible
fandom here, but it's really crowded, as you said. So again,
two days into our ownership, we win the championship where
all I'm flying back with my family and I'm like,
it's so excited to read about it in the newspaper,
(10:53):
like everyone in the world must be talking about the
fact that Gotham just won. And we open the sports
pages and we're like, okay, it's not on the cover. Understandable, Fine,
you know, women's source is still growing, and we're like, okay,
it's not on page two. Okay, it's not a page three,
And we keep going and going, going, and there's literally
not covered. And then we open our news feeds, like
on our phones, is it on social media?
Speaker 3 (11:15):
No?
Speaker 5 (11:15):
And it's just no one was talking about it. And
I think that, really, I think crystallized that moment of Okay,
we're not in culture right now, and that is on
us to go build. So, first of all, I should
say that since then, the two winning sports teams in
New York are the women's sports teams, right sure, and
they obviously you know very much are part of culture
(11:36):
here now. But that has been part of the work
we've done in the last year is building those relationships
with the local newspapers, with people that kind of build
New York culture. We had our players drop the ball
at Times Square, we had a big media event. I
can't remember you hear that. I was at the Rainbow
Room when we introduced our free agents. So we have
been kind of brick by brick building our story in
(11:59):
New York because as hard as it is to break
into the New York sports scene, once you're in, there's
nowhere better to win a championship than New York.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
And let's talk about that because you know you mentioned
the Liberty, which you know when the twenty four finals,
Sorry too soon, No, I mean, thank you Jack. Amazing
series at the distance and you know, but one of
the things that I think was very notable, and Alex
(12:30):
and I have talked a lot about this is how
well curated the court side seats are. You know, I
went to your first ever playoff game. You go through
that suite, there are there's Eli Manning, there's Justin Tuck,
there's Rich Climan, there's Megan Rappino, Sue Bert, you know
all of these luminaries it is in the culture.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
It feels like it's suddenly in the culture. So what happened?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I mean, Caitlin Clark not with standing for the WNBA,
there's something bigger going on.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
How do you respond to that? But also how do
you help create it?
Speaker 5 (13:08):
I'm so glad you brought that up, because that was
very deliberate. We really studied. I think in the past
year when I've thought about, you know, who do we
bring in to help run this team On the business side,
it's been a real mix of in and out of sports.
And part of why we did that is because we
didn't want to just say, like, what is the typical
NWSL playbook and let's go run it back. We wanted
(13:30):
to look across all of sports outside of sports, like
who does it well in culture more broadly, and so
the person who now runs marketing for us, she looked
very closely at what does court side at the Knicks
look like? What does it mean when you go to
a Yankees or a Yankees World Series game? Who's there,
what types of people are there, what is the fan
experience like? And so that that was It's been a
(13:50):
very deliberate build. So part of it is just having
the vision to do it. The other part is the execution.
And the reason I think we've been able to execute
it well is because it all starts with having the
best product on the field and kind of putting my
marketing head on. You can't market a bad product like
you have to have the right product first. And we
knew we had that. We have some of the best
(14:12):
players in the world. We had all these Olympians that
are you know, on our team at Awtham, so we
know we have a great product. Now the job was
to go build a great fan experience around that product.
So it wasn't just ninety minutes of soccer. It was
you know, the hour before at FanFest, it was who
was in the suite, as you said, and so that
was kind of the second part was like building that
(14:33):
great experience so that when people come, whether it's your
average fan who plays local soccer or it's Eli Manning
or Superbird, that you want to be there and you
want to tell all your friends about it and you
want to come back.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Let's talk a bit about the Giants if we can.
It's probably worth about seven billion dollars. You know, if
you look at the estimates Gotham maybe less than one
hundred million dollars. They would seem incompatible from a scale perspective.
Clearly their learnings back and forth. You're spending time at both.
What are the most obvious connections that you take back
(15:20):
and forth and what are some that you know maybe
we wouldn't think of.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Yeah, when you put it like that, they do something
pretty far apart. They don't feel like it in the
day to day.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
So don't that's interesting? So it feels similar?
Speaker 5 (15:34):
Well, I would say the challenges feel different, but maybe
like my personal passion for both feel similar. Maybe we'll
say that. So I would say that probably the most
clear synergies are just the learning sharing going on between
the two. So as we're building up the business staff
at Gotham for them to be able to call people
at the Giants and say like, hey, how do you
(15:56):
think about, you know, selling sponsorships, how we're thinking about
putting in like a new CRM system, How did you
guys think about that? Even on the soccer side, we
are GM and I spoke to Aaron Wellman, who's the
head of performance at the Giants, just about like, how
do you put a medical staff together. So the idea
that you can at any point when you have a question,
you can pick up the phone and have a resource
(16:16):
there to call is really fantastic and.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
They know that, they just know that that's available to them.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
You just you created that so that you say, do
you need something at the Giants, just I'll connect to you.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Like, how does that work in practice?
Speaker 5 (16:30):
Yes, yeah, that's a good question. Yes, So I created
that from the beginning, and part of it I think
was built allowing the Gotham team to build the respect
with the Giants organization so that they didn't feel like, oh,
who is this person calling me? It's like they have
they feel vested in it. And it's actually been amazing
to see how many Giants employees have become Gotham fans.
And every time about the Giants' offices for work, often
(16:52):
people came running over to me and I think they're
there to talk to me about something about the Giants,
and they really just want to talk about Gotham. So
that's really hap.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
They're probably talking to you about them fair fair.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
Too soon, I think, but yes, you're probably right. Yes,
So there is this sort of you know, great syndergies.
I would say, kind of behind the scenes on the
business side, the things that I think that I hadn't
really because to your point, you know, the valuations are
very different. The tenure the Giants are celebrating their hundredth anniversary.
Gotham is, you know, a couple of years in. Is
(17:25):
the way that we think about fandom is so different.
Yet I think there's really great learnings across them. So,
for example, in the NFL, fandom is often generational. You know,
you're a Giants fan because your father was a Giants
fan and your grandfather was a Giants fan, and maybe
there was a female fan in there, but it was
probably your father and your grandfather. So it's very you know,
(17:46):
it's passed down. It's very geographic. It's like you're a
Giants fan because that's who you could watch on TV
because you lived in New York or you still live
in New York. At Gotham, we're really building fandom from
the ground up. Soccer is the number one sport played
amongst youth in this country. So often parents are learning
about soccer through their kids, and their kids play soccer
(18:09):
and then they don't. Actually, that doesn't just because you
play in your local soccer team doesn't necessarily translate to
oh and then I go watch my favorite soccer team
on TV or I go to a game. And so
that's what we're trying to do at Gotham is build
that kind of ground up fandom. However, there's actually a
lot to be you know, both teams could benefit from
the other and so there are families where Soccer's is generational,
(18:33):
So how do we bring that fandom to Gotham and
then at the Giants figuring out how do you get
you know, a next generation of fans that may not
have that in their blood. It might not be passed down,
but needs to be built from the ground up. There's
a lot of great lessons in there.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Talk about fandom. Staying on that subject, over the last
thirty years, your family have caned the Giants and we
understand very clearly how fans consume content. How do you
think about it with your Peloton background, the next five
to ten, even thirty years, how does that look and
how different is it than the past thirty?
Speaker 5 (19:08):
Yeah, I think this is actually one of the things
we were really excited about in our Gotham investment was
the way that people are consuming sports is so different now.
The avidity is still there, but it might not be
that you sit and watch a whole four hour game.
You're probably connecting through social media. You're probably connecting through athletes.
There is this sort of athlete driven I don't need
(19:29):
to tell you this, there's this you know, athlete driven
culture now. And so that if you think about that
from a giant's perspective, that is leaning into digital, that
is leaning into social, that really sets us up well
at Gotham. There's when I was at Peloton, that was
one of the early insights we realized as people would
walk around saying like, I love Pelton, I love Peloton,
(19:50):
and then when you ask them a follow up question,
it always gets to I love Ali love or I
love Robin. I can't end my day without Cody. And
so we saw an opportunity to build the Peloton brand,
but to build it via our stars, via our instructors.
And that's very much something we're thinking about at Gotham
is we want to continue to build love for the
Gossam brand. One of the ways we can do that
(20:11):
is to help tell the stories of our incredible players
both on and off the field, and use and take
the love for Rose Level and bring that to Gotham
as well.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
And so let's talk about Peloton, because it's clearly formative
for you. And I would love to go back sort
of to the beginning, because you know, you go to Yale,
then you go to Harvard Business School, you come out,
you work for PepsiCo, you don't go into the family business,
and then you go to what's then a relatively unknown
(20:44):
startup called Peloton. Tell us about that decision and what
did you experience when.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
You got there.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
So I might just take us back from one moment
because I actually thought that I wanted I was going
to go work at the Giants. I did some I
just had a baby, and I left PEPs and I
started doing a little consulting work for the Giants, and
it didn't It was what I always thought I wanted
to do, and it, for variety of reasons, just didn't
feel right at that moment. They were very focused on
what was happening on the football side, and I was
(21:12):
kind of bringing these like new innovative ideas and it
just it didn't feel right. And the reason I bring
that up is because I probably would have never landed
at Peloton had that experience not happened because I had
really built my entire career wanting to go work at
the team, and then I got there and it didn't
really work right. So then I was very open to
sort of like, all right, I'll try anything because I
(21:33):
don't really know what my path looks like now. And
so I go to Peloton. And I had always been
sort of personally passionate about fitness, but didn't really see
that as a career necessarily. And I had so many
friends from business school in particular at the time being like,
what are you doing? Why are you doing that? Like
or have you gotten crazy? Is this like an early
mid life crisis? And the early days I just I'd
(21:57):
never worked at a startup, and so the early days,
you know, I came in under a brand marketing title,
under a CMO who then left pretty quickly after I started.
So then was given a much larger set of responsibilities
and it was just to roll up your sleeves and
figure it out as you go.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
And the founder and CEO, John Foley, what was it
in that first meeting? What did he say that you said, Okay,
I gotta come work here.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
So John, in the first meeting, he said, We're going
to go build one of the best brands in the world.
And I'm sitting there in this we work on twenty
ninth in Madison, when no one had ever heard of them,
and at the time it was you know, this was
like the Soul cycle, Flywheel, heyday. So Pelton was this
like distant third And I left and I called my
(22:44):
husband and I was like, Okay, he might be crazy,
but he also might be right.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
And I think it's a yes, and it's a.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Yes, Yes, that's probably right. That's probably true.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
And I love Dolly and I would say yes, day, Yes,
that's a.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Lot of every founders a lot crazy. Yeah, feel might
say that about me too. So anyway, it just the
opportunity to have that vision of we're literally in a
startup where thousands of investors have told you, no, we're
selling you know, at that point, we'd sold maybe one
hundred bikes. I mean, this was nothing. And he's sitting
there saying we're going to We're not just like we're
going to be a successful company, but we're going to
(23:23):
be one of the most I think he actually didn't
just say best, he said one of the most important
brands in the world, and I thought, wow, I don't
know how we're going to do that, but I love
to be a part of it.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
So Jase, I do have a quick follow up on that,
because I remember in the Covid days the stock market
cap went up to like thirty five billion or so
plus or minus. Looking back in retrospect, for our viewers,
what is the lesson What could John and your team
have done to keep it at that level or keep
it like a really strong business.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
So I left in twenty twenty, so I just mindful
I was not there in those moments. I was there
in the peak and then not in the bull. I
think one of the challenges I think for a peloton
is there was there were always a lot of questions
around what our TAM was, So what was our total
(24:14):
addressable market? How big could this thing get? What Covid
did was accelerate the growth so fast that I think
it questioned what that TAM was. And so there were
people buying bikes that would have never thought about buying
a bike before, but it was Covid. You couldn't leave,
you couldn't go to the gym, and so I think
(24:36):
one of the lessons was, you know, being really thoughtful
around what the sustainable tam was. Like we always knew
at some points the pandemic would end, So like what
is the addressable market outside of a pandemic and really
anchor the business in That would be my lesson.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
And so as you look back on the you know,
you talked about sort of the star instructors, but there's
also this this moment of fast growth and you know,
seizing the moment as it were, which does lead to
this question of sustainability for the growth of women's sports
and women's soccer. How do you think about that? What
(25:18):
worries you? Like, what are the things that could get
in the way.
Speaker 5 (25:22):
Yeah, we talk a lot at ARCHAEMC Gotham now about
sustainable growth and what does that look like? I think
I go back to something I said earlier about like
making sure you're the best product first, because the only
way that a marketing funnel that is built on word
of mouth works is when there's no leak in the bucket, right,
(25:43):
So like if you think of a marketing funnel of like, oh,
where you know, I find out about it, I consider it,
I try it, and then ideally, which I think is
what's happening with us at Gotham and happened with us
A Peltin is like, oh, and then I love it
so much, I'm going to come back and I'm going
to tell all my friends if people are churning at
the bottom. If people come to a game, they buy
a Pelton bike and they don't like it, they stop
(26:03):
using it so they stop paying. Or if people come
to a Gotham game and don't have a good experience
and don't come back, that whole model breaks down. And
so when I think about sustainability, I think about ensuring
that that product is great first. And I don't just
mean we're winning games, although obviously that helps. I mean
the fan experience, the way we show up, you know,
(26:23):
how people interact with our players on social media, and like,
it's kind of the whole product. I would call it.
That has to be right first for the rest of
it to follow.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
And I wonder if you think about this too, Alex,
this notion of.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
You know, you control your team, and you know when
you have ultimate decision making authority when it comes to
that you and your team, and yet you're also part
of a collective group of people who are making decisions
on behalf of the league, and you know you've been
a part of this, Alex and obviously you're experiencing this
(27:00):
now with the NWSL. What is that like to try
and get everybody and to be an influential voice in
a room of governors, which you are.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
So that's been something that's been so interesting about this league.
And I had heard it coming in and I very
much seen it and feel it for myself too. Is
there's the owners around the tables. Many own other teams
in other leagues as well, and or have other big businesses.
Many spend a disproportionate amount of their time on their
(27:32):
NWSL team than they do on other things. Interesting kind
of to your point on like the seven billion versus
one hundred million of like, yes, in theory that would
mean you shouldn't spend time on one hundred million, and
I'd probably spend more time on that than anything else.
So there's this feeling of you know, people are spending
a disproportion amount of time on it. The question is why,
I think there's a general feeling of we all see
(27:55):
what this can be. We're all here for a reason,
we all believe in what this league can look like. However,
that is not going to happen by any of us
leaning back. We all need to Everybody needs to do
their part, and whether that's you know, put on the
being on the commercial committee and pushing on that, whether
it's on the sporting committee and thinking about how do
you keep having a competitive product on the field. Whatever,
(28:16):
those decisions are that you're kind of leading as a
governor for the league are so critical because we are
quite literally creating the future of the league with the
decisions we're making now, are dictating what the future of
the league is going to look like. So I think
all of us feel this responsibility to really lean in
and engage in the league and think about and make
(28:36):
decisions that are not just right for our teams, but
right for the better the you know, the entire group.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
What's been something as now a governor, a recent governor
that has surprised you on the good side and some
things that are a little bit more challenging than you
even expected.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
I think one thing that has really surprised me is
this collaboration across owners. I think ironically now I'm kind
of one of like the more tenured owners, even though
I have been there for a year because there's been
so much ownership. But there's been this feeling, I think
from day one, of we will all win when the
other teams win too. And so when Willow Bay just
(29:17):
came in an Angel City a few wants to go,
you know, I immediately reached out to her and said, like,
here's my phone number, call me anytime I want to
help you. I want Angel City to succeed because Gotham
will succeed when Angel Cities, just using them as an example,
will succeed. And I had other owners do the same
for me, and so there is this, you know, collective
feeling we have. All the CBOs spend a lot of
(29:39):
time together, the chief business officers, and they'll even on
things like sponsorship, which in theory you're kind of competing
with each other. They'll discuss the deal with each other
because we know that if Bay is out there, not
that they would be doing this, but like selling at
a lower price than we're selling it that hurts each other.
And so we all are in this together, and so
(29:59):
there's been this real kind of we're all better when,
you know, when we're all helping each other feeling that
I surprised me. I thought of it as a more like, oh,
we're competitors on the field, so we're competitors always, and
it is very much not felt that way.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
You know, sort of going back to this sort of
synergies for a second between Gotham and the Giants. I mean,
I wonder, as you're going through some of these decisions
or decision making processes at Gotham, are you calling your
uncle and being like, hey, I'm running into this. Have
you run into this over the past thirty years? Like
what are some inflection points that you think might be similar?
(30:49):
Because NFL thirty years ago it was big, but it
wasn't anything like it is now.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
Right right, Yeah, I think there's been this very open
you know, across there's also a fair amount of NFL
owners within the league as well. Mark Wilf and I
both sit on the executive committee at the end of
us OLT together. And what's actually interesting is that then
there's also owners from NBA teams, so David Blitzer is
also on the executive committees. There's MLB owners with the Ricketts.
So there's been this great ability, I think for everyone
(31:19):
to come with their individual their like other league perspective,
but also with a feeling of we don't have to follow, like,
let's go take the best of what everyone else does
and also chart our own path. And so there's this
really you know, interesting shared learning happening where for any
given question, it's okay, well Mark's going to tell you
(31:39):
how it's done at the NFL, and David's going to
tell you how it's done the NBA, and but let's
actually pause and think do we want to do it
any of those ways or do we want to do
it differently? And that's been a really productive conversation.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
And so your work with the Giants is interesting too.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
You know, the day that that got them hosted its
first ever home playoff game, you were meant to be
in Germany with the Giants because they were playing I
believe their first international game.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Is that right?
Speaker 5 (32:11):
They played in London in Germany.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
First in Germany. Excuse me.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
You have been a huge proponent of that inside the
Giants organization.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Talk to us.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
About that, especially as it feels like it illustrates part
of what your role.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Is within the Giants.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
Yeah, that day gave new meaning to trying to be
in two places at once. It did not work, but
I had been in Germany and then I left to
come home for the Golfen game. So yeah, one of
the things that I've tried to bring to the Giants
is again this sort of like how do you build
a modern brand perspective that I gained a Peloton and
so international is a big piece of that. Fandom in
(32:48):
the NFL again has been generational, as I said, but
it's also been very geographically defined. You were a Giants
fan because you live in New York and there's really
only the just you know, to compete with now as
you think about you and be a fan from anywhere.
If you're a fan because you're a fan of a player,
if Patrick Mahomes is your favorite player, doesn't matter that
you don't live in Kansas City. You're a Kansas City Chiefs.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Fan and may never go to a Kansas City Chiefs
game and may.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
Never go to a game. That's a really important point too.
You could be the most dedicated fan on Earth and
never go to a game. So how do you build
that relationship with fans that are never going to walk
into your stadium. That's really different, and I do think
actually there are a lot of lessons from Peloton in
that we had. You know, in our early days of Peloton,
everyone knew the instructors, you know personally, they would give
(33:33):
them a hug after the game. The instructors were giving
them shout outs in class. As we scaled, we had
to professionalize it. Instructors were kind of cordoned off from
the members and so that kind of like the growing
pains of that, you know, changed over time. So anyway
back to the Giants being in Germany, so building a
global brand that is where the NFL is going, and
how the Giants show up and do that. I think
(33:54):
there are a lot of lessons from the Peloton. There's
a lot of lessons even from Gotham of how do
you go build old fandom when you don't have the
geographic roots. Because we are in Germany, we are competing.
Kansas City is a good example. They have the rights
to Germany as well. We're as much competing with Kansas
City as we are you know in New York with
the Jets.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Right.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
You know what's interesting about the way that male and
female consume content and get really excited about it. I
find that some of my boys are only about wins
and losses, right, They don't care about you know sports radio,
and when I talk to my daughters about the Links
or Gotham or any team, what gets them excited is
a storytelling and that's a way to connect. What ways
(34:37):
are you thinking about from your players to connect to
your fan base to help grow their brand.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (34:43):
I think you bring up such a good point around
storytelling and content that is increasingly I think we see
for all of our fans that telling those stories they
are players have such interesting stories to tell. I read
something interesting recently around actually female athletes are so much
better at story telling then male athletes. So you do
again back to the kind of the investment thesis around
(35:04):
like we're in an athlete driven world, We're in a
content driven world. You have female athletes like you could
you know the writings on the wall of where that
could go. So content is is a really big piece
of it. And telling those stories, you know, to your point,
not just who they are on the field, but who
they are off the field. We have one of our
players as a cancer survivor, we need to tell that story.
We have players who are incredibly into fashion and they
(35:27):
were at the front row of fashion weeks, so we
need to tell that story. Rose level. One of our
players has this dog who has sort of like gone viral.
The dog sort of has its own personality and Instagram.
So being able to tell those stories and really kind
of explain who our players are in the rest of
their lives is really key to our growth story.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
So, speaking of content, you know, one of the interesting
decisions the Giants made, and I know you're very involved
in sort of the marketing side, in the brand side,
was Hard Knocks off season, which went viral in a
lot of ways. Really truly behind the scenes on some
very big decisions, including Saquon.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Barkley going to the Eagles.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Talk about that strategy, how it works for the Giants,
and then what you take away for something like Gotham.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
Yeah, so that doing more kind of what I would
call like off helmet content is something that I've been
really passionate about it and talking to the Giants about
for a long time. If you look at shows like
Drive to Survive, they were really the first to do it.
It introduced a new audience into a sport that might
have not been appealing for a lot of people. There
are the number of people who texted me after Hard
(36:37):
Knocks and said like Wow, I never thought I would
ever watch the NFL before, and it's just a way
to bring in a new audience, introduce the players, and
introduce the brand in a really different way. And so
that is something that I think the NFL will continue
to do and we absolutely look at it Gotham as
well as and how do we tell those stories in
(36:59):
a different way so that you bring in a casual fan.
The NFL is always going to have their hardcore at
football fans, but there is a whole world of casual
sports fans that you can bring in by doing this
type of content.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Yeah, I think about you know, Midge Purse, who is
you know, like Forgotham was a guest on this show
and her show off season, you know, was a completely
different view of the NWSL and female soccer players, which
I think literally had never happened to that totoint.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
There was there was not a show like that before that.
There was there was no model out there.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
So I do want to go back to this idea
of what happens next for the for the NWSL, because
you know, we've talked a lot about the the WNBA.
We've had kandas Parker super Bird on this show, you know,
the overnight sensation of the WNBA after twenty eight years,
you know, everybody really coming on to it. NWSL is
a little bit not as far along in its journey,
(37:55):
a couple failed leagues, you know, on the way here.
What is the next thing that has to happen and
what do you worry about?
Speaker 5 (38:03):
So we talked to you know, a lot about you know,
starting with the product. I think that next step then
is the fan. So how do you get fans to
show up to games? Yeah, and I think about my
time again kind of going back to my peloton days.
Is we had to create a category. No one was
sitting around thinking like I wish I could go buy
a bike that streamed my favorite spin class in my
(38:25):
living room. We literally wrote the term connected fitness, which
is now you know, a term.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (38:31):
Not that we are inventing women's soccer at Gotham obvious
at the league obviously that has existed for a long time,
but we are this kind of the point of breaking
into culture. We have to go create this category. We
have to go create the demand for people to come.
There are the core fans, but to break out and
get and fill stadiums and sell out over and over.
We have to go create that demand. So again I
(38:52):
go back to this idea of like, we have a
great product, now we have to go create a great
fan experience around it in game. Then we have to
think about the three hundred and sixty five days a year,
how do we build that, you know, fandom and that
relationship with fans. I think consumers come first, and you're
starting to see that we had record breaking attendance at
our first ever playoff game. I know the Washington Spirits
sold out. I think Kansas City has sold out all
(39:13):
of their games this year, So you are starting to
see the fandom there. That is kind of I would
say step one and how we think about it at Gotham.
I think then sponsorship and partnerships like those come later. Typically,
I think you do see brands kind of follow like
consumers always go first. But I would say in terms
of like what are the risks, what are the opportunities,
(39:34):
I think that is like the next step to come.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
So the risk is people just stop showing up.
Speaker 5 (39:39):
Well, yes, I mean in theory, of course, there is.
We look at a metric called net promoter score. It's
again a tech metric that we brought into women's soccer
and our NPS score. So NPS has measured one hundred
to negative one hundred, So a score of zero is
actually not that bad. Our scores are typically in the
high eighties. That isn't a believable score. Apple, I think
(40:02):
is like sixty. I want to say Starbucks is in
the seventies. And these are really high numbers. So people
want when they come to the game, they want to
come back. Yes, in theory, it could all fall apart
and people could stop showing up.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
You've got to get them there.
Speaker 5 (40:19):
We have to get them there, and I think that
has been probably the biggest challenge from the beginning and
why we've been so deliberate about, you know, finding new
ways to get people there. There's always been this debate
within the league of like do you do comps do
not do comps. I've been a big believer in comps because, again,
if you go back to.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
The meaning complimentary tickets, giving out complimentary tickets Storr delivery, yes, sorry.
Speaker 5 (40:41):
Complimentary tickets because it is not on people's radar on
day one. So if you get them there and you
kind of bring them into that marketing funnel, they will
come back.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
I do want to talk a little bit about what's
next for next three?
Speaker 3 (40:55):
First of all, is next three? Next three? Decades? Is that?
Speaker 1 (40:57):
What?
Speaker 3 (40:58):
What is it? Next three? People? What is next three?
Speaker 5 (41:00):
So next three? My husband actually came up with the name.
When you play pick up basketball, which I don't frequently
but he does, I guess are used to when you
win a game, then the person will say like, all right,
next three up. And it's this idea of like, all right,
you one. Now you're thinking about like what's the next
who are the next three? You're playing like we're leaning
(41:20):
into the future. It is clever. I wish I could
say it more concisely.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Talk to me a little bit about you know some
of your ops, how do you think about pitching it,
you know, outside of your family? And also how do
you deal with being a control partner? And most funds
have the burden investment and exit? How do you know
go through those challenges?
Speaker 5 (41:43):
Yes, so I'm definitely I'm not an investor. I'm now
sitting here today, I'm like, I wish I had taken
those classes in business school. I did not. So it
is just our family. So the LP so it's my mom,
Laurie Tish, her two brothers, John and Steve, who are
the three owners of the Giants, and then everyone in
my generation, all my cousins, my sister and my cousins.
(42:03):
So I think we have the benefit of really running
it more like a family office than a fund, which means,
to your point, we're not necessarily thinking about the exit.
We're not even obviously we are returns driven, but we're
not just returns driven. And I think that's been really
important in how we've looked at investments, because every investment
(42:24):
we look at, we ask ourselves the question, why are
we on the cap table? Why are we the ones
sitting here today? And if the answer is they just
want capital, then we're probably we're not going to do
the deal because there are plenty of people that are
better investors probably then have a larger team to invest
than we do. The reason where they are often is
because of my experience at Peloton and or our legacy
(42:48):
co ownership of the Giants, and now increasingly because of
our role at Gotham. And so the reason I say
all that is because we look at investments sometimes because
we think it will make us better at the rest
of our jobs, and so We've looked at investments that
will potentially make us better NFL owners will teach us
(43:08):
about what One of our investments is this company called
transmit Live, which they help kind of run the back
end of ad tech as sports move to streaming. They
run a lot of the ad tech in advertising for streaming. Anyway,
the reason I bring that up is I hope it
does well, and it actually is doing very well. We
also did that investment because sports will continue to move
(43:30):
to streaming and media deals are an increasingly important part
of the valuations around owning teams, and so for us
to get smart on what that looks like makes us
better owners and makes us be able to have more
intelligent conversations, you know, sitting around boardroom. So a lot
of the deals we look at, we are there again
for the returns, but we're also there because of what
(43:52):
we're learning.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
So Karena, stayin on next three.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
What do you see in the future, I mean, can
you see another team, can you see your show of minustake,
WNBA team or anything else.
Speaker 5 (44:04):
We're still actively looking at investments. I think the past
year has been a bit of a heads down, Like
we got to get Gotham to where it needs to be.
But we're I say to my team every day, we
were very deliberately. We didn't start Next three to buy Gotham,
and we're we started Next three because we want to
be at the forefront of where sports is going. Women's
sports and women's soccer is very much a part of that,
(44:26):
but it's not the only place sports are going. So
we are still actively looking at other things. I don't
know what those will be yet, but we continue to
believe that there is more happening in sports that we
want to be a part of.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
You know, obviously both of you have this shared experience
of you know, getting into ownership. Has going into Gotham
like changed your personal visibility?
Speaker 3 (44:48):
Like do you feel like you're sort of out there more?
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Because I don't know if I'm asking this well, but
you know, with the Giants, it's like it's your family,
but for Gotham, like you're you're the face, Like you know,
you're the you're the person like on the JumboTron when
they cut to the owner's box.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
To see to see the reaction. What's that been like
for you?
Speaker 5 (45:08):
Yeah, I don't think I realized that was going to
be that it was going to be that. I think
when we decided again, I thought it was a good deal.
I thought it was you know, I thought it was
a good thing for our family to be in. I
don't think I realized how much it was personally going
it was going to be tied to my personal identity.
The number of messages I get from you know, old
(45:29):
friends in college or business school that will just kind
of randomly reach out to me and say like, thank
you for what you're doing for women's sports. And I
now take that really seriously. And I didn't. You know, again,
we we bought got them because we thought it was
a good investment. I don't think I appreciated how much
(45:49):
I now feel trum. I've always felt tremendous well, I've
always felt tremendous pressure. It's probably why I'm so type A,
but I've always felt tremendous pressure since starting Next three
to deliver the returns to my family, to you know,
to make good investments. I now feel a tremendous pressure
to help grow women's sports. And that's a different level
of pressure. Is I now feel like this kind of
(46:11):
societal pressure and cultural pressure to realize, like I think
we all are clear on what the dream is for
women's sports, and I feel very responsible for the execution
of that. So it is a different you know, it
was not. It was not what I thought would be.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
All Right, we're going to move to our rapid fire segment.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
This is fun, We're going to keep it tight and
we'll just bounce back and forth and you know, answer
however you see fit?
Speaker 3 (46:44):
All right? What's one word to describe your deal making style?
Speaker 5 (46:47):
Unconventional?
Speaker 3 (46:49):
What's more important your gut, instinct or data?
Speaker 5 (46:53):
Well, I'm the most indecisive person on earth, so I
would say both.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Okay, perfect.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
What's your best piece of advice you've ever received on
deal making or business?
Speaker 5 (47:02):
Create a culture where you would want to work.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
What's the worst advice you've ever been given that.
Speaker 5 (47:09):
This was going to be easy?
Speaker 3 (47:12):
What's your hype song before a big meeting or big negotiation.
Speaker 5 (47:15):
Well, I mostly only listen to my kids like Taylor
Swift albums, so probably so Taylor Swift version.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
That's fair. Do you have a go to peloton instructor?
Speaker 5 (47:23):
I did go on the Peloton today with Robin Love
Robin Robin Arzon.
Speaker 4 (47:27):
If you can only watch one sport for the rest
of your life, Which one is it?
Speaker 3 (47:31):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (47:31):
My kids always ask me football or soccer. It's so stressful.
Probably football.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Still, what team do you want to see win a
championship more than any is a tough one for gotam.
Speaker 4 (47:41):
Do you have a fun fact about yourself that your
colleagues would be surprised to hear?
Speaker 5 (47:47):
I am a vegetarian because my sister used to moo
at me at the table because she was a vegetarian
and she believed me into be hamming one too.
Speaker 3 (47:56):
Perfect, That's true.
Speaker 5 (47:59):
I'm here.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
Ye, Well, this was really fun. Thank you, thank you,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly.
Our producers are Anamazarakus, Stacey Wong, and Lizzie Phillip. Original
music and engineering by Blake Maples. Our managing editor is
David E. Ravella. Our executive producers are Jason Kelly, Brendan Francis, Neonham,
(48:34):
Jordan Opplinger, Trey Shallowhorn, Kyle Kramer, Andrew Barden, Kelly Laferrier,
and Ashley Hoenig. Sage Bauman is our head of Podcasts.
Additional support from Rachel Carnivali and Elena sos Angeles. Joshua
Devaux is our director of photography. Rubob Shakir is our
(48:54):
creative director. Art direction is from Jacqueline Kessler, Casting by
Julia Mann, Camera operation by Crystal Jefferson, Holly Fisher and
Gaby Demotase. Alex Brown is our gaffer, and Max Garstak
and Maximo Maluso are our grips. Our production assistant is
Gabriella Demotase. Alex Diaconus is our video editor. Listen to
(49:19):
the Deal on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get
your podcasts. You can also tune into the video Companion
on Bloomberg Originals and on Bloomberg TV. Thanks for listening.
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