December 10, 2024 • 25 mins
In this special bonus episode of The Deal, Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly hop on the mic to talk about Juan Soto's record-breaking $765 million deal to play for the Mets over the next 15 years. They discuss the details of Soto's deal, how it compares to Rodriguez's own record-breaking contract back in 2000, and what it all means for the business of baseball.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Hi everyone, welcome to
the Deal. I'm your host Jason Kelly here with Alex Rodriguez. Alex,
really good to see you. Oh my god, I'm so
excited for this.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We spoke yesterday and we said we have to jump
on because it's such exciting news and is really the
news of sports and business.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
All right, this is, of course the record breaking deal
Wan Soto signing for the Mets. Unbelievable fifteen year deal.
We're gonna unpack it all. I mean, what's funny is this?
This is a discussion Taylor made for our show. We're
right in the middle of sort of our regular season.
We're actually taking a break for the holidays. We've had
some amazing episodes come out already, Sue Byrd, Billy gen King,
(00:52):
George Pine, you know, so much fun with those. We've
got more coming out after the first of the year.
Carolyn Logic, Josh Richards, so lots of stuff we have
waiting for you. But as you said, there was no
question we had to do this. I said to a
text as soon as this news about one Soto's record
breaking contract hit, because there was literally one human that
(01:18):
I wanted to hear his reaction, and it was you,
And then luckily we figured out a way to get
this onto the podcast. So let me start there. The
news hits the tape. We knew he was negotiating, we
knew who he was negotiating with, but the number, the news,
the team. What's your first reaction when you hear that?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I mean, my first reaction, Jason, is deja vu. I mean,
I was an exact same situation in an undisclosed location
for ten days. And what was interesting, Scott Bors was
also my agent. What was also the same thing similarities eerie.
It was also the Hilton in Dallas. So my phone
started blowing up. Jason, I thought I was like back
in the future. Yeah, and I thought I signed the deal.
(01:59):
But unfortunate than me, it was Juan Soto. I could
not be more excited for Juana, could not be more
excited for Steve Cohen and Alex Coin and the New
York Mets. This is like a historic moment in sports,
in New York history.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So why tell me why, because I mean, it certainly
feels like that, and I can't tell you how it's
dominating every conversation I'm here at the Hope Global Forum,
where you and I were last year here in Atlanta.
There were several Major League commissioners here, including Rob Manfred.
I'm talking later with our friend Tony Wrestler about some
of the work he's doing here in Atlanta and beyond.
(02:35):
But everybody's talking about this deal. What is it other
than the numbers that really capture this sort of business
imagination here?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, I mean it's such a statement, especially in New York,
around baseball, around the globe. I mean, this news hit everywhere,
and as if you think about it and you take.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
A step back. The Yankees have been around for over
one hundred years.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
They've never, and I mean never with all Caps have
lost a player they've coveted to another team. Why because
forever they've been the king of the jungle. They've had
more resources sometimes two x, three x four x and
some of the smaller market teams. So whatever they want
they get. This is the first time somebody has stood
up to the New York Yankees and said not so fast.
(03:16):
We're richer and we want to be better and this
is our city. And Steve Coin and Alex con they're
on their way.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
It is remarkable. I mean, the New York of it
all is just fascinating it and you bring up something
that is at the heart of this, which is Steve
Cohen is a different sort of owner that's undeniable, and
the moves that he's made they have been bold, they
have been aggressive, and you're right, it is a statement
(03:45):
like no other. So let's talk about the Yankees for
a second, and then I want to get back in
the time machine. Did you feel bad for the Yankees
in all of this when you saw that he was
going to the Mets or were you? Were you mad? Disappointed?
I feel like we're like two parrots talking. It's like,
I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. Like, how did you
feel as a as a Yankee about your Yankee family?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, as a Yankee fan and a Yankee alum. Look,
it's been a long time since we won a World Series.
It's been fifteen years. And there's no question that the
main reason why the Yankees made it to the World
Series was the combination of Juan Soto and Aaron Judge
one lefty, one righty, both hit over forty home runs,
(04:24):
both extraordinary hitters. And of course you have you know,
Garrett Coe and others, but the main formula was the
one to two punch that reminded me of Maris and
Mantell back in the day. So the question for the
Yankees is how do they pivot out of this? And
they're going to have a lot of resources to go
out and deploy. But the last time they lost Robinson Cano,
the pivot did not go well and they signed some
(04:45):
players that they didn't work out, and they were back
to square one. So all the pressure right now will
be on Brian Cashman because he has a bank open,
and the question is what players would he attract to
New York.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
All right, So I'm taking you back to the time
machine twenty four years, same agent, same hotel, same undisclosed location.
As you say, what were you feeling in that moment?
Because I feel like, again you're literally the only other
person who's had this almost eerily similar experience. What was
it like in that moment for you?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Excitement and anxiety?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I'm not sure which one I had both, you knowever
stuck in this location for ten days, but I was
twenty four, Jason. And one of the great benefits of
you know, entering the major leagues at eighteen, is it
takes you to six years to become a free agent. Now,
remember Scott Bors had me three years prior to that.
He had me at fifteen years old. So for nine years,
from fifteen to twenty four, he was training me almost
(05:42):
like a robot, feeding me, giving me the information, preparing
me for this big heavyweight battle. And when that battle came,
just like Juan Soto, we were ready. He was ready
and I was ready. I knew he was ready. Twenty
minutes after the last out when they got eliminated, that
Juan Soto had his hat backwards. She did a postgame
press conference, I'm not sure if you saw it, and
(06:02):
he basically said, everybody starts at ground zero, nobody has
an advantage. And that's when I said, oh, the Yankees
are in trouble.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
All right. So I don't want to get too far
away from your own experience because I want to understand
this because I've never been in those rooms. Like what
are the conversations like between you and Scott? Are you
talking ten times a day? Is he talking to you
only when he has information, like especially during that first
big deal, Like take us inside the room.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
In two thousand and two thousand and one. It was
a lot easier to hide because there was no social media.
There was no Instagram, no Twitter, no X all that.
So I was in this location and we were probably
talking about seven or eight times a day, and the
conversations consisted of, we're talking to these five teams. I'm
talking to this owner at this time. I'm talking to
this GM at this time. We want to start everybody
at two hundred. That's the starting bid. And he said,
(06:53):
we have three of the five teams there. Let me
work on the other teams. I'll come back to you.
But because I was getting ready for nine years, Jason,
the volatility of this, I was actually much more in
the zone than I would have been if I hadn't
been prepared. So Scott's formula is he wants to prepare
you for the situation because when he knows his go
time as a young man, you have to be emotionally
(07:13):
ready for anything to happen. And it was so much
anxiety because I could have ended up in Baltimore or
the White Sox or the Mets. I had no idea
where I was going, So you know, I also have
you know, Cynthia was my wife at the time, and
we were like we have a young baby. We had
no idea where we were going to go.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
And I did wonder. I'm glad you said that about
about Cynthia and your family because I do wonder, like
who are you talking to? You know, Scott's feeding you information,
Like what is your process then for assessing that. You know,
are you and Cynthia sort of like huddling, are you
talking to your mom? Like what's going through your mind
in terms of that decision making because as you say,
(07:51):
this is a life altering from a money perspective, but
even to your point where you're going to live, who
you're going to play for, what's the culture of the
team you want to embrace? So what are those conversations
behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Like, yeah, let me bring you inside the tent because
this is a very tight tent and it was basically Cynthia,
myself and Scott. And part of prepping for nine years
is there's a gag order. So you go to undisclosed location.
You're basically in a mountain somewhere, and you're to make
no phone calls, no family, no friends. You got to
build a mistique and a mystery around what's happening, and
(08:25):
you don't want anybody to be able to know what
you're thinking, or to be able to kind of connect
dots because of, you know, informal conversations you're having. So
I was in a hall for ten days, and I'll
tell you when it finally said are you sitting down?
I said, yeah, I'm sitting now, I was actually standing.
He said are you ready? He said ten years, two
hundred and fifty two million dollars and I said, WTF,
(08:47):
what are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
How is that possible?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
We were trying to get you know, one eighty two
hundred and you know, the ten years made it the
big two fifty two, which, ironically, Jason, was double the
amount of the largest contract in American history from Kevin
Garnett from the Minnesota Timberwolves.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
He had one twenty six.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Wow. The symmetry here is insane, like where your life
has taken you from a sports perspective and elsewhere. So
what was your feeling when that when you heard that?
What goes through your mind?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I don't know if I was more excited at the
time of the number or the fact that I get
to fly home because I was homesick. I wanted to
get home, so I was super excited. I felt a
lot of pressure. I felt like the work starts today.
Is not the end, is the beginning. And I remember
I flew home and I landed in Miami around two
in the morning. I remember putting on my clothes on
(09:41):
the plane, my workout stuff. Two o'clock in the morning,
I drive to the University of Miami to the track
right behind the baseball field where if you hit a
home run in the baseball field over the left field wall,
you hit.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
The middle of the track. That's where I went.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I jumped the fence and I started running and doing
my sprints and my workouts to about four o'clock at
five o'clock in the morning, and that was my first
wor work out getting ready for spring training, which was
in a few months.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Unlike a lot of people, you got sort of a
second bite at the apple because you sort of got
got to do it again. You do end up with
the Yankees, And for those who missed it, I highly
recommend going back to the episode we did with Derek Jeter,
your teammate and fellow world champion back in nine, talking
about your deal to get there. There's a really funny
story about you and Brian Cashman and having a few drinks,
(10:27):
and obviously there's also some really interesting context about why
you made the decision. Then, So take us back to
that second go round, because you're a different player and
maybe you have, I dare say, like some different priorities.
Tell me about that.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah, well, there's no question.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
I mean, remember from fifteen to twenty four, when I
was a free agent, I was like a robot that
was trained for nine years by Scott Bores. Now you
fast forward to when I'm thirty two, I had different priorities.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
At that time. I had two baby girls.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
At that time valued the Yankees so much that I
had two or three teams that had bigger offers than
the Yankees. But I valued the Yankees a great deal,
and I had the luxury Jason because at that point
I had made a lot of money, So I was
in a different position. Money didn't mean as much as
it did as twenty four a better way of saying it.
(11:18):
At twenty four, I was more of a mercenary. At
thirty two, I was more of a missionary, and the Yankees.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Meant a great deal to me, right, And that I mean,
I think you would probably agree you made the right decision, right.
I mean, there's no question about it or Yankees, and
my vision was I wanted more than anything to be
in Monument Park. The romance of going to the Hall
of Fame with a Yankee and the pinchtripes was very
(11:44):
appealing to me. And the other teams while they were,
you know, good teams and they made better offers. I
just thought the combination of spending fifteen years as a
New York Yankee meant a great deal to me. So
(12:06):
let's talk about why do you think Soto made this decision.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I think you can't blame one Soda. Look, Juan comes
from a very humble background in Dominican Republic. You work
your absolute tail off. The average career of a major
league players five and a half years. He's worked his
butt off. So anyone who blames one Soto, they got
to be crazy because this is you know, lottery money
and he can take care of his family for generations
(12:34):
to come. He did everything he asked for, He never
misled anyone. He was very honest, very forthright, and was
an absolute pro. And now he's not a player with
Steve Cohen. He's a partner of Steve Cohen. And if
you think about coin, he paid two point four to
five for the Mets. This contract is going to take
you north of eight hundred million dollars. And remember, a
guy like Steve Cohen has bigger ambitions than just the Mets.
(12:57):
Does he want to build a soccer team, a soccer venue.
Does he want to build a casino? Is he going
to be part of when S and Y contract runs out?
Does he build his own yes network instead of S
and Y. So there's a lot there, and you have
a guy like Soho to be your partner and run
with you.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
So let's talk about what this means for baseball. You
said something interesting earlier about sort of the New York
element of it. There's a little bit of little brother
punching up. It feels like to me, you know, being
a sort of transplanted New Yorker, you know, Stevie Cohen
basically saying I am not messing around here. I want
to win and I'm willing to, you know, do whatever
it takes to do that. We know from his success
(13:34):
in the hedge fund world, like he's going for it.
But what does this do? Because I think it's fair
to say, and I'm saying this is me and I'm
not putting words your mouth. Your contract fundamentally changed the
business of baseball. I think that's fair to say that
there were rules the opt out that you know, sort
of came in in the wake of that. What will
this contract do do you think for the business of baseball?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I think it's a tale of twos.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
And I mean, look, there's about five or six teams
that are crushing it the have and have nots, but
the have nots of the thirty teams are much bigger.
And there's no coincidence that the five teams that were involved,
the Yankees, the Mets, the Red Sox, Dodgers, and the
Blue Jays all have a very very healthy regional sports
network deal. Toronto has a whole country, The Boston have Nessen,
(14:22):
the Mets have s and y, the Yankees f BBS,
and you have the sports Net with the Dodgers that
make well over two hundred million dollars a year. If
you take a step back, Baseball about twenty five years
ago made a macro bet that regional sports network is
where the money is where the NBA and NFL made
out macro bet that the national TV deal and NFL
(14:42):
is one hundred and ten billion, NBA is at seventy
seven billion. The national TV deal for the Mets is
only ten billion. The regional sports networks are having a
lot of issues. So the teams that have the healthiest
TV deals. If you think about the Yankees that make
two hundred plus a year for their TV deal, and
there's somewhere on sixteen million, it's just not sustainable.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
So I think it's going to change the business. Again.
You have a.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
CBA that's coming up here in the next couple of years.
I do watch that very carefully because there's some owners
that are thrilled, like the Dodgers, the Mets, the Yankees,
and there's some owners with the Pirates and you know,
Marlins and others that are saying, how do we compete?
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I feel like, again, this is just me sort of
specting a little bit. Your contract back in the day
not only change Baseball, it made every other professional sport
sort of take stock of what the compensation was for players.
I would argue it didn't just change the negotiations and Baseball,
it changed the negotiations elsewhere. Does this have that effect too,
(15:42):
or are the sports sort of and you know, I mean,
obviously you're very involved, deeply involved in another major sport
in the NBA and the WNBA. You know, did these
sorts of contracts resonate across those sports too?
Speaker 3 (15:57):
I think so.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I mean, look, this is a copy and paste business, right,
And when you look at Soto's contract at let's say
forty six million dollars a year, you still have a
handful of NBA players that make more per year. You
have a handful of quarterbacks that make more per year.
What makes this such a daunte number is the fifteen years, right,
which you don't really have that in footbun in the NBA.
(16:18):
So that's one way of thinking about it. But I
think the model that most people are going to follow
is you're Atlanta Braves. They have Alisonthopolis, the baseball executive there,
who's brilliant. He came from Toronto and he's made some
really really shrewd strategic bets, whether that's a Kunya who's
playing at twenty cents of the dollar, he's brought in
Olsen from Oakland that he's been fantastic. You have Albi's
(16:39):
at thirty five for seven. You made a great bet
with Riley, your center fielder. I mean across the board.
If you look at the value creation versus what they're paying,
the arbitrage is enormous. So it's gonna have to come
down to talent evaluation. And when you see a great
talent like an Aaron Judge early sign them up for
as long as possible, don't let him become a free agent.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
And so does that inform And now I'm asking you
to put on your hat as a professional team owner
of a couple of sports teams. How is your mindset changed?
Not necessarily about this deal, but again I'm sure you
know with all these feelings and memories flooding back, now
you are literally on the other side of the table
for a lot of these negotiations. And so how does
(17:22):
it inform your playbook? How is your playbook different now
as an owner? I know we've talked about this on
the show before. Than it was that the player, what
are the things you're sensitive to or that you especially
sort of take to heart? Now, you know, being not
the player but management.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
You know, if you take a step back to two thousand,
I think it's important to remember it's not so long ago,
but sometimes we forget as sports fans. Is when a
team made an announcement, the ownership and management had like
ninety percent of the power. The ten percent of the players,
they didn't have the vehicle like the social media, the
X the Instagram to be able to voice our opinion.
(17:57):
I remember, Jason, when I signed that contract, I became
public enemy number one, and I didn't have a way
to fight back. It was like, you know, an ambush
of criticism. And I love how far we've come in
this game where Tani and Soto I looked at like
superheroes because they're everything that's right with the game right,
So I like that. The other part is players are
(18:19):
no longer players, at least in the NBA and WNBA.
They're partners. You're building a business with them as we go.
We all win together and you lose, you lose together.
So I think that's where it's been a paradigm shift
in owner player.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
No, we're partners now, and that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, and it's interesting that the partner point is an issue. Wheen,
and you said it at the top that the way
that Soto is youing, you know, the Cohens and vice versa.
You know, even sort of the language that's been around this,
you know, with like swedes and you know, all these
different sort of elements. It does feel much more like, Hey,
(18:55):
we're in business together now, versus I work for you
and you're paying me. I don't want to use bad
layers a lot of money. You're making me a lot
of money, and I'm going to show up and play.
It's more we're building a business together.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
You know what's interesting about that, Jason, this, I don't
know if you've heard a lot of the noise around
some of the things around the edges that made a
big difference for Juan Soto, and some of them were
the suite that he got for fifteen years for his family.
Huansota is a very much of a family man. You
talked about he had a couple incidents with security where
they pushed out his family into the rain and they
weren't allowed into a special place. At the end of
(19:33):
the day, look, it was about the money. But what
I would say is if you combine, you know, three
or four or five of these things around the edges,
they start moving.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
The needle a little bit.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
I don't think just one, but two or three or
four of these and look, the one thing Steve Cohen
knows is he knows how to identify value.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
And whether it's one of his hedge.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Fund managers at P seventy two or it's Juan Soto,
he has no problem you the very most if you're
the very best. And that's exactly what he did. And
he's one of the greatest art collectors in the world.
And for him, he was going to an auction, a
Sotheby's auction, and he was going to walk away with
the Mona Lisa or the warhow that he wanted and
nobody was going to outbid him.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
All right, So let me ask you this point blank.
You think he's worth it?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I do. I do think he's worth it. Look what
he did for the Yankees. If you look at the
numbers for the Yankees, the S and Y numbers have
not been better in probably ten years. You had a
full house in Yankee Stadium. There was an excitement, there
was an energy. It reminds me Jason with Barry Bonds
went from Pittsburgh to San Francisco. He basically didn't play
one game at home that wasn't a soldout crowd. And
(20:56):
when you had the Jordan's, the Lebrons, the Barry Bonds,
guys like that that can move the needle. They're more
than just one player. They're really a paradigm shift for
a whole franchise and the self esteem of that franchise.
And the Mets are saying, we're not your father's Mets.
There's a new era, baby, and we're here to stay.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah. It's interesting too, And you mentioned this, and I
want to sort of underline it. This whole notion of
like what the Coen family is building out around city Field.
You know, as I mentioned, I'm in Atlanta and last
night I drove with a friend of mine past Truest Park.
You see the Battery, You see all these developments. That
is clearly the vision that Cohen has for around City Field.
(21:36):
And there's a massive amount of ambition and I guess
this may be the crown jewel of it. It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Well, I think that's a great example, Jason. I think
Atlanta Braves have done as good as job as anyone.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
And that Battery area.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
We covered the World Series there for Fox a few
years ago, and it was like a college atmosphere for
like you know, college game day. Yeah, but everything starts
on the field and it works out if you have
the greatest properties, if you have the greatest assets. If
you're not winning and you don't have talent, your debt duck.
Now what Alex and Thopolos has done with the Braves
(22:08):
is he's identified great talent. He has signed him up
for many many years as cents to the dollar, and
it creates a continuity an aura, and the Braves are
also backed. They may not win every year, but they're
going to compete every single year with this core.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I love that we brought it back to the Braves.
I appreciate that, all right. So usually you and I
are together interviewing someone else and making them answer rapid
fire questions. I am using my position of mild authority
here to turn the tables on you and ask you
some rapid fire questions. So same rules apply, first thing
(22:43):
that jumps to mind, and I get to ask all
of them this time.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
I love it. I love it all right.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
So where do you think Wan Soda will hit in
the lineup?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I think he would hit second again, and they got
to go out and get a right hand to hit
or protect him.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
What round do you think the Mets will make it
to next year? In the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I think they'll compete for a title and they'll make
it to the least a championship series again.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
All right, which team is best equipped to offer the
next record breaking deal?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I think the Dodgers. The Dodgers, you know, they run
a team like an NFL team. The P and L
is unbelievable after all, Tani.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Okay, who's gonna get the next record breaking deal?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
That's a tougher question, Jason, because I think owners are
going to go to school on this and they're not
gonna let young talent, supreme talent like Soto ever become
a free agent again. And you're seeing that trend now,
they're going to double down on it.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
All right, So what advice give it? Everything we've talked about.
You were in his shoes. Now Soto is wearing those
same cleats. In a way, what's the advice you would
give the next free agent who does try and negotiate
a big deal.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Depend what the goal is, but follow exactly what Juan
Soto did.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
That was perfectly done. It's a masterclass.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
All right. Well, I am very appreciative of you. I
missed you over the last few weeks because we haven't
been recording and we agreed on text. If we're not
talking about this deal, we're not doing our jobs. I
think I think you said it would be malpractice if
we didn't do something on the Deal. All right, everyone,
thank you so much for joining us. Obviously, keep track
(24:14):
of everything we've done, stay tuned for everything that's coming
up on the Deal. My thanks to my partner Alex
Rodriguez for jumping on. It was really good to see it.
My man.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Well, if I don't see you, have a happy holiday
and I miss you too, pal.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly.
This episode was made by Stacy Wong, Annamasaracus and Lizzie Phillip.
Our theme music was made by Bleake Maples. Our executive
producers are Kelly Laferrier, Ashley Honig, and Brendan Newnham. Sage
Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcast. Additional support from
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(24:54):
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All you need to do is find the Bloomberg channel
and connect your Bloomberg account. I'm Jason Kelly. We'll see
you next time with the Deal
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Hi everyone, welcome to
the Deal. I'm your host Jason Kelly here with Alex Rodriguez. Alex,
really good to see you. Oh my god, I'm so
excited for this.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We spoke yesterday and we said we have to jump
on because it's such exciting news and is really the
news of sports and business.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
All right, this is, of course the record breaking deal
Wan Soto signing for the Mets. Unbelievable fifteen year deal.
We're gonna unpack it all. I mean, what's funny is this?
This is a discussion Taylor made for our show. We're
right in the middle of sort of our regular season.
We're actually taking a break for the holidays. We've had
some amazing episodes come out already, Sue Byrd, Billy gen King,
(00:52):
George Pine, you know, so much fun with those. We've
got more coming out after the first of the year.
Carolyn Logic, Josh Richards, so lots of stuff we have
waiting for you. But as you said, there was no
question we had to do this. I said to a
text as soon as this news about one Soto's record
breaking contract hit, because there was literally one human that
(01:18):
I wanted to hear his reaction, and it was you,
And then luckily we figured out a way to get
this onto the podcast. So let me start there. The
news hits the tape. We knew he was negotiating, we
knew who he was negotiating with, but the number, the news,
the team. What's your first reaction when you hear that?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I mean, my first reaction, Jason, is deja vu. I mean,
I was an exact same situation in an undisclosed location
for ten days. And what was interesting, Scott Bors was
also my agent. What was also the same thing similarities eerie.
It was also the Hilton in Dallas. So my phone
started blowing up. Jason, I thought I was like back
in the future. Yeah, and I thought I signed the deal.
(01:59):
But unfortunate than me, it was Juan Soto. I could
not be more excited for Juana, could not be more
excited for Steve Cohen and Alex Coin and the New
York Mets. This is like a historic moment in sports,
in New York history.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So why tell me why, because I mean, it certainly
feels like that, and I can't tell you how it's
dominating every conversation I'm here at the Hope Global Forum,
where you and I were last year here in Atlanta.
There were several Major League commissioners here, including Rob Manfred.
I'm talking later with our friend Tony Wrestler about some
of the work he's doing here in Atlanta and beyond.
(02:35):
But everybody's talking about this deal. What is it other
than the numbers that really capture this sort of business
imagination here?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, I mean it's such a statement, especially in New York,
around baseball, around the globe. I mean, this news hit everywhere,
and as if you think about it and you take.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
A step back. The Yankees have been around for over
one hundred years.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
They've never, and I mean never with all Caps have
lost a player they've coveted to another team. Why because
forever they've been the king of the jungle. They've had
more resources sometimes two x, three x four x and
some of the smaller market teams. So whatever they want
they get. This is the first time somebody has stood
up to the New York Yankees and said not so fast.
(03:16):
We're richer and we want to be better and this
is our city. And Steve Coin and Alex con they're
on their way.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
It is remarkable. I mean, the New York of it
all is just fascinating it and you bring up something
that is at the heart of this, which is Steve
Cohen is a different sort of owner that's undeniable, and
the moves that he's made they have been bold, they
have been aggressive, and you're right, it is a statement
(03:45):
like no other. So let's talk about the Yankees for
a second, and then I want to get back in
the time machine. Did you feel bad for the Yankees
in all of this when you saw that he was
going to the Mets or were you? Were you mad? Disappointed?
I feel like we're like two parrots talking. It's like,
I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. Like, how did you
feel as a as a Yankee about your Yankee family?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, as a Yankee fan and a Yankee alum. Look,
it's been a long time since we won a World Series.
It's been fifteen years. And there's no question that the
main reason why the Yankees made it to the World
Series was the combination of Juan Soto and Aaron Judge
one lefty, one righty, both hit over forty home runs,
(04:24):
both extraordinary hitters. And of course you have you know,
Garrett Coe and others, but the main formula was the
one to two punch that reminded me of Maris and
Mantell back in the day. So the question for the
Yankees is how do they pivot out of this? And
they're going to have a lot of resources to go
out and deploy. But the last time they lost Robinson Cano,
the pivot did not go well and they signed some
(04:45):
players that they didn't work out, and they were back
to square one. So all the pressure right now will
be on Brian Cashman because he has a bank open,
and the question is what players would he attract to
New York.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
All right, So I'm taking you back to the time
machine twenty four years, same agent, same hotel, same undisclosed location.
As you say, what were you feeling in that moment?
Because I feel like, again you're literally the only other
person who's had this almost eerily similar experience. What was
it like in that moment for you?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Excitement and anxiety?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I'm not sure which one I had both, you knowever
stuck in this location for ten days, but I was
twenty four, Jason. And one of the great benefits of
you know, entering the major leagues at eighteen, is it
takes you to six years to become a free agent. Now,
remember Scott Bors had me three years prior to that.
He had me at fifteen years old. So for nine years,
from fifteen to twenty four, he was training me almost
(05:42):
like a robot, feeding me, giving me the information, preparing
me for this big heavyweight battle. And when that battle came,
just like Juan Soto, we were ready. He was ready
and I was ready. I knew he was ready. Twenty
minutes after the last out when they got eliminated, that
Juan Soto had his hat backwards. She did a postgame
press conference, I'm not sure if you saw it, and
(06:02):
he basically said, everybody starts at ground zero, nobody has
an advantage. And that's when I said, oh, the Yankees
are in trouble.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
All right. So I don't want to get too far
away from your own experience because I want to understand
this because I've never been in those rooms. Like what
are the conversations like between you and Scott? Are you
talking ten times a day? Is he talking to you
only when he has information, like especially during that first
big deal, Like take us inside the room.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
In two thousand and two thousand and one. It was
a lot easier to hide because there was no social media.
There was no Instagram, no Twitter, no X all that.
So I was in this location and we were probably
talking about seven or eight times a day, and the
conversations consisted of, we're talking to these five teams. I'm
talking to this owner at this time. I'm talking to
this GM at this time. We want to start everybody
at two hundred. That's the starting bid. And he said,
(06:53):
we have three of the five teams there. Let me
work on the other teams. I'll come back to you.
But because I was getting ready for nine years, Jason,
the volatility of this, I was actually much more in
the zone than I would have been if I hadn't
been prepared. So Scott's formula is he wants to prepare
you for the situation because when he knows his go
time as a young man, you have to be emotionally
(07:13):
ready for anything to happen. And it was so much
anxiety because I could have ended up in Baltimore or
the White Sox or the Mets. I had no idea
where I was going, So you know, I also have
you know, Cynthia was my wife at the time, and
we were like we have a young baby. We had
no idea where we were going to go.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
And I did wonder. I'm glad you said that about
about Cynthia and your family because I do wonder, like
who are you talking to? You know, Scott's feeding you information,
Like what is your process then for assessing that. You know,
are you and Cynthia sort of like huddling, are you
talking to your mom? Like what's going through your mind
in terms of that decision making because as you say,
(07:51):
this is a life altering from a money perspective, but
even to your point where you're going to live, who
you're going to play for, what's the culture of the
team you want to embrace? So what are those conversations
behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Like, yeah, let me bring you inside the tent because
this is a very tight tent and it was basically Cynthia,
myself and Scott. And part of prepping for nine years
is there's a gag order. So you go to undisclosed location.
You're basically in a mountain somewhere, and you're to make
no phone calls, no family, no friends. You got to
build a mistique and a mystery around what's happening, and
(08:25):
you don't want anybody to be able to know what
you're thinking, or to be able to kind of connect
dots because of, you know, informal conversations you're having. So
I was in a hall for ten days, and I'll
tell you when it finally said are you sitting down?
I said, yeah, I'm sitting now, I was actually standing.
He said are you ready? He said ten years, two
hundred and fifty two million dollars and I said, WTF,
(08:47):
what are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
How is that possible?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
We were trying to get you know, one eighty two
hundred and you know, the ten years made it the
big two fifty two, which, ironically, Jason, was double the
amount of the largest contract in American history from Kevin
Garnett from the Minnesota Timberwolves.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
He had one twenty six.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Wow. The symmetry here is insane, like where your life
has taken you from a sports perspective and elsewhere. So
what was your feeling when that when you heard that?
What goes through your mind?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I don't know if I was more excited at the
time of the number or the fact that I get
to fly home because I was homesick. I wanted to
get home, so I was super excited. I felt a
lot of pressure. I felt like the work starts today.
Is not the end, is the beginning. And I remember
I flew home and I landed in Miami around two
in the morning. I remember putting on my clothes on
(09:41):
the plane, my workout stuff. Two o'clock in the morning,
I drive to the University of Miami to the track
right behind the baseball field where if you hit a
home run in the baseball field over the left field wall,
you hit.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
The middle of the track. That's where I went.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I jumped the fence and I started running and doing
my sprints and my workouts to about four o'clock at
five o'clock in the morning, and that was my first
wor work out getting ready for spring training, which was
in a few months.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Unlike a lot of people, you got sort of a
second bite at the apple because you sort of got
got to do it again. You do end up with
the Yankees, And for those who missed it, I highly
recommend going back to the episode we did with Derek Jeter,
your teammate and fellow world champion back in nine, talking
about your deal to get there. There's a really funny
story about you and Brian Cashman and having a few drinks,
(10:27):
and obviously there's also some really interesting context about why
you made the decision. Then, So take us back to
that second go round, because you're a different player and
maybe you have, I dare say, like some different priorities.
Tell me about that.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah, well, there's no question.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
I mean, remember from fifteen to twenty four, when I
was a free agent, I was like a robot that
was trained for nine years by Scott Bores. Now you
fast forward to when I'm thirty two, I had different priorities.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
At that time. I had two baby girls.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
At that time valued the Yankees so much that I
had two or three teams that had bigger offers than
the Yankees. But I valued the Yankees a great deal,
and I had the luxury Jason because at that point
I had made a lot of money, So I was
in a different position. Money didn't mean as much as
it did as twenty four a better way of saying it.
(11:18):
At twenty four, I was more of a mercenary. At
thirty two, I was more of a missionary, and the Yankees.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Meant a great deal to me, right, And that I mean,
I think you would probably agree you made the right decision, right.
I mean, there's no question about it or Yankees, and
my vision was I wanted more than anything to be
in Monument Park. The romance of going to the Hall
of Fame with a Yankee and the pinchtripes was very
(11:44):
appealing to me. And the other teams while they were,
you know, good teams and they made better offers. I
just thought the combination of spending fifteen years as a
New York Yankee meant a great deal to me. So
(12:06):
let's talk about why do you think Soto made this decision.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I think you can't blame one Soda. Look, Juan comes
from a very humble background in Dominican Republic. You work
your absolute tail off. The average career of a major
league players five and a half years. He's worked his
butt off. So anyone who blames one Soto, they got
to be crazy because this is you know, lottery money
and he can take care of his family for generations
(12:34):
to come. He did everything he asked for, He never
misled anyone. He was very honest, very forthright, and was
an absolute pro. And now he's not a player with
Steve Cohen. He's a partner of Steve Cohen. And if
you think about coin, he paid two point four to
five for the Mets. This contract is going to take
you north of eight hundred million dollars. And remember, a
guy like Steve Cohen has bigger ambitions than just the Mets.
(12:57):
Does he want to build a soccer team, a soccer venue.
Does he want to build a casino? Is he going
to be part of when S and Y contract runs out?
Does he build his own yes network instead of S
and Y. So there's a lot there, and you have
a guy like Soho to be your partner and run
with you.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
So let's talk about what this means for baseball. You
said something interesting earlier about sort of the New York
element of it. There's a little bit of little brother
punching up. It feels like to me, you know, being
a sort of transplanted New Yorker, you know, Stevie Cohen
basically saying I am not messing around here. I want
to win and I'm willing to, you know, do whatever
it takes to do that. We know from his success
(13:34):
in the hedge fund world, like he's going for it.
But what does this do? Because I think it's fair
to say, and I'm saying this is me and I'm
not putting words your mouth. Your contract fundamentally changed the
business of baseball. I think that's fair to say that
there were rules the opt out that you know, sort
of came in in the wake of that. What will
this contract do do you think for the business of baseball?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I think it's a tale of twos.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
And I mean, look, there's about five or six teams
that are crushing it the have and have nots, but
the have nots of the thirty teams are much bigger.
And there's no coincidence that the five teams that were involved,
the Yankees, the Mets, the Red Sox, Dodgers, and the
Blue Jays all have a very very healthy regional sports
network deal. Toronto has a whole country, The Boston have Nessen,
(14:22):
the Mets have s and y, the Yankees f BBS,
and you have the sports Net with the Dodgers that
make well over two hundred million dollars a year. If
you take a step back, Baseball about twenty five years
ago made a macro bet that regional sports network is
where the money is where the NBA and NFL made
out macro bet that the national TV deal and NFL
(14:42):
is one hundred and ten billion, NBA is at seventy
seven billion. The national TV deal for the Mets is
only ten billion. The regional sports networks are having a
lot of issues. So the teams that have the healthiest
TV deals. If you think about the Yankees that make
two hundred plus a year for their TV deal, and
there's somewhere on sixteen million, it's just not sustainable.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
So I think it's going to change the business. Again.
You have a.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
CBA that's coming up here in the next couple of years.
I do watch that very carefully because there's some owners
that are thrilled, like the Dodgers, the Mets, the Yankees,
and there's some owners with the Pirates and you know,
Marlins and others that are saying, how do we compete?
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I feel like, again, this is just me sort of
specting a little bit. Your contract back in the day
not only change Baseball, it made every other professional sport
sort of take stock of what the compensation was for players.
I would argue it didn't just change the negotiations and Baseball,
it changed the negotiations elsewhere. Does this have that effect too,
(15:42):
or are the sports sort of and you know, I mean,
obviously you're very involved, deeply involved in another major sport
in the NBA and the WNBA. You know, did these
sorts of contracts resonate across those sports too?
Speaker 3 (15:57):
I think so.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I mean, look, this is a copy and paste business, right,
And when you look at Soto's contract at let's say
forty six million dollars a year, you still have a
handful of NBA players that make more per year. You
have a handful of quarterbacks that make more per year.
What makes this such a daunte number is the fifteen years, right,
which you don't really have that in footbun in the NBA.
(16:18):
So that's one way of thinking about it. But I
think the model that most people are going to follow
is you're Atlanta Braves. They have Alisonthopolis, the baseball executive there,
who's brilliant. He came from Toronto and he's made some
really really shrewd strategic bets, whether that's a Kunya who's
playing at twenty cents of the dollar, he's brought in
Olsen from Oakland that he's been fantastic. You have Albi's
(16:39):
at thirty five for seven. You made a great bet
with Riley, your center fielder. I mean across the board.
If you look at the value creation versus what they're paying,
the arbitrage is enormous. So it's gonna have to come
down to talent evaluation. And when you see a great
talent like an Aaron Judge early sign them up for
as long as possible, don't let him become a free agent.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
And so does that inform And now I'm asking you
to put on your hat as a professional team owner
of a couple of sports teams. How is your mindset changed?
Not necessarily about this deal, but again I'm sure you
know with all these feelings and memories flooding back, now
you are literally on the other side of the table
for a lot of these negotiations. And so how does
(17:22):
it inform your playbook? How is your playbook different now
as an owner? I know we've talked about this on
the show before. Than it was that the player, what
are the things you're sensitive to or that you especially
sort of take to heart? Now, you know, being not
the player but management.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
You know, if you take a step back to two thousand,
I think it's important to remember it's not so long ago,
but sometimes we forget as sports fans. Is when a
team made an announcement, the ownership and management had like
ninety percent of the power. The ten percent of the players,
they didn't have the vehicle like the social media, the
X the Instagram to be able to voice our opinion.
(17:57):
I remember, Jason, when I signed that contract, I became
public enemy number one, and I didn't have a way
to fight back. It was like, you know, an ambush
of criticism. And I love how far we've come in
this game where Tani and Soto I looked at like
superheroes because they're everything that's right with the game right,
So I like that. The other part is players are
(18:19):
no longer players, at least in the NBA and WNBA.
They're partners. You're building a business with them as we go.
We all win together and you lose, you lose together.
So I think that's where it's been a paradigm shift
in owner player.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
No, we're partners now, and that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, and it's interesting that the partner point is an issue. Wheen,
and you said it at the top that the way
that Soto is youing, you know, the Cohens and vice versa.
You know, even sort of the language that's been around this,
you know, with like swedes and you know, all these
different sort of elements. It does feel much more like, Hey,
(18:55):
we're in business together now, versus I work for you
and you're paying me. I don't want to use bad
layers a lot of money. You're making me a lot
of money, and I'm going to show up and play.
It's more we're building a business together.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
You know what's interesting about that, Jason, this, I don't
know if you've heard a lot of the noise around
some of the things around the edges that made a
big difference for Juan Soto, and some of them were
the suite that he got for fifteen years for his family.
Huansota is a very much of a family man. You
talked about he had a couple incidents with security where
they pushed out his family into the rain and they
weren't allowed into a special place. At the end of
(19:33):
the day, look, it was about the money. But what
I would say is if you combine, you know, three
or four or five of these things around the edges,
they start moving.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
The needle a little bit.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
I don't think just one, but two or three or
four of these and look, the one thing Steve Cohen
knows is he knows how to identify value.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
And whether it's one of his hedge.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Fund managers at P seventy two or it's Juan Soto,
he has no problem you the very most if you're
the very best. And that's exactly what he did. And
he's one of the greatest art collectors in the world.
And for him, he was going to an auction, a
Sotheby's auction, and he was going to walk away with
the Mona Lisa or the warhow that he wanted and
nobody was going to outbid him.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
All right, So let me ask you this point blank.
You think he's worth it?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I do. I do think he's worth it. Look what
he did for the Yankees. If you look at the
numbers for the Yankees, the S and Y numbers have
not been better in probably ten years. You had a
full house in Yankee Stadium. There was an excitement, there
was an energy. It reminds me Jason with Barry Bonds
went from Pittsburgh to San Francisco. He basically didn't play
one game at home that wasn't a soldout crowd. And
(20:56):
when you had the Jordan's, the Lebrons, the Barry Bonds,
guys like that that can move the needle. They're more
than just one player. They're really a paradigm shift for
a whole franchise and the self esteem of that franchise.
And the Mets are saying, we're not your father's Mets.
There's a new era, baby, and we're here to stay.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah. It's interesting too, And you mentioned this, and I
want to sort of underline it. This whole notion of
like what the Coen family is building out around city Field.
You know, as I mentioned, I'm in Atlanta and last
night I drove with a friend of mine past Truest Park.
You see the Battery, You see all these developments. That
is clearly the vision that Cohen has for around City Field.
(21:36):
And there's a massive amount of ambition and I guess
this may be the crown jewel of it. It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Well, I think that's a great example, Jason. I think
Atlanta Braves have done as good as job as anyone.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
And that Battery area.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
We covered the World Series there for Fox a few
years ago, and it was like a college atmosphere for
like you know, college game day. Yeah, but everything starts
on the field and it works out if you have
the greatest properties, if you have the greatest assets. If
you're not winning and you don't have talent, your debt duck.
Now what Alex and Thopolos has done with the Braves
(22:08):
is he's identified great talent. He has signed him up
for many many years as cents to the dollar, and
it creates a continuity an aura, and the Braves are
also backed. They may not win every year, but they're
going to compete every single year with this core.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I love that we brought it back to the Braves.
I appreciate that, all right. So usually you and I
are together interviewing someone else and making them answer rapid
fire questions. I am using my position of mild authority
here to turn the tables on you and ask you
some rapid fire questions. So same rules apply, first thing
(22:43):
that jumps to mind, and I get to ask all
of them this time.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
I love it. I love it all right.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
So where do you think Wan Soda will hit in
the lineup?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I think he would hit second again, and they got
to go out and get a right hand to hit
or protect him.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
What round do you think the Mets will make it
to next year? In the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I think they'll compete for a title and they'll make
it to the least a championship series again.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
All right, which team is best equipped to offer the
next record breaking deal?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I think the Dodgers. The Dodgers, you know, they run
a team like an NFL team. The P and L
is unbelievable after all, Tani.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Okay, who's gonna get the next record breaking deal?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
That's a tougher question, Jason, because I think owners are
going to go to school on this and they're not
gonna let young talent, supreme talent like Soto ever become
a free agent again. And you're seeing that trend now,
they're going to double down on it.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
All right, So what advice give it? Everything we've talked about.
You were in his shoes. Now Soto is wearing those
same cleats. In a way, what's the advice you would
give the next free agent who does try and negotiate
a big deal.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Depend what the goal is, but follow exactly what Juan
Soto did.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
That was perfectly done. It's a masterclass.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
All right. Well, I am very appreciative of you. I
missed you over the last few weeks because we haven't
been recording and we agreed on text. If we're not
talking about this deal, we're not doing our jobs. I
think I think you said it would be malpractice if
we didn't do something on the Deal. All right, everyone,
thank you so much for joining us. Obviously, keep track
(24:14):
of everything we've done, stay tuned for everything that's coming
up on the Deal. My thanks to my partner Alex
Rodriguez for jumping on. It was really good to see it.
My man.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Well, if I don't see you, have a happy holiday
and I miss you too, pal.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly.
This episode was made by Stacy Wong, Annamasaracus and Lizzie Phillip.
Our theme music was made by Bleake Maples. Our executive
producers are Kelly Laferrier, Ashley Honig, and Brendan Newnham. Sage
Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcast. Additional support from
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