Episode 55 - Tia Sillers - Be Mine (Flight Attendant) - Worktapes

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey everyone, Brandon here with the Work Tapes podcast. I
wanted to take a second and tell you about artist
and dot Org. If there's one thing I love about
writing in Nashville, it's the community it creates. But let's
face it, we all need each other, and artists are
not just artists anymore where songwriters, we're content creators, marketing managers,

(00:23):
booking agents, social media experts, and we're doing it all
at the same time, a lot of us are doing
it by ourselves. It can be discouraging and it can
burn you out really fast. Award winning veteran songwriters Crystal
Wells and a Cole Wit are building a community through
artists and that will champion your craft artists and is

(00:44):
helping artists of all backgrounds not only expand their mindset
and open their hearts, but to actively live into their
creative dreams. And they're doing this through a variety of
online and in person opportunities to connect and create within
a community. Visit artists and dot org to learn how
you can become a part of artist development, vision meetings,

(01:06):
writing prompts, annual songwriters retreats, coaching, and a whole lot
more so, whether you're a professional artist and you're feeling stuck,
or you're an up and coming artist and not sure
where to start, or you're just feeling overwhelmed by it all.
Visit artists and dot org and learn how you can
become part of a movement of people coming alive through

(01:26):
creativity and authentic connection. Artist and dot org let him
know Brandon from Work Tape Sianya, Welcome to Work Tapes.

(01:46):
This is a podcast where we tear up our songs.
Why with the song written? What's it about? What's the
context and emotion behind it? Where were you at the time,
what were you going through? How did certain lines come
to you the inspiration? How long did it take to write?
I'm Brandon Carswell and I'm fascinated with a songwriter and how

(02:07):
songs are built from the ground up. It's easy to
hear a full production song on the radio and dismiss
its origin story. I want to hear the rough draft
of the song or the work tape. I want to
explore the very beginning, how songs that move us and
make us move our born. Hey everyone, welcome to another

(02:52):
edition of Work Tapes. My name is Brandon. Today we
are joined by a fantastic songwriter over forty singles Grammy
for Best Country Song. I Hope You Dance co wrote
on Blue on Black, which spent six weeks at number

(03:15):
one and was regarded as one of the best rock
songs of nineteen ninety eight and even reached number one
again in twenty nineteen. Ye, your catalog is huge. Welcome
Tia Sillers, thank you, thanks for being here.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
We're camping out in soundstage on Music Row again thanks
to Nick Autry and the people at Black River.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Entertainment legendary soundstage.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yes, actually in this studio. I was just told I
learned something new every time I do a podcast here.
But this was where Kings of Leon did their first.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
WOW, which its perfect sense. Angelo was a writer here
in this building, so he was using that place all
the time.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
There's so many huge records that have been recorded here,
So that's cool to do a podcast about songwriting. You know,
if these walls could talk to us well.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
And also what you just you just said. The obvious
thing that I'm always saying constantly about Nashville is Nashville
is so much more than one genre of music that
begins with the sea. So you know, it started off
being you know, bluegrass and gospel, and then it became country.
And now when I first came here or the thing
that I thought I wanted to do was entirely you know, rock, roots, pop,

(04:38):
what's now Americana, all those things like that, and that
was very much front and for most here, and then
it kind of like went away for a little bit.
But it's been strong and steady for the last twenty years.
So we're every genre.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, And speaking of kind of multi genre writing, you're
a pro at that, just as you mentioned. So so
the big songs I mentioned at the front here that
you've written, we're not really going to talk much about.
We can. We're going to talk about some songs or
a song that you wrote with a band called Flight Attendant,

(05:13):
which is much more of like a modern pop I mean,
you can describe it, and we get to listen to
the work tape of that song, which is really cool.
So for the listeners, stick around because we'll get to
that and we'll play the work tape before we dive
in to that part. What got you into songwriting? Period?

(05:35):
Where did you start with it?

Speaker 2 (05:37):
Well, when I was a kid. We moved here when
I was fourteen and we moved. When we moved to Nashville,
it was a tiny, teeny little town and my family
was definitely having culture shock. We'd always lived in really
big cities up and down the East Coast and in Europe,
and to move to Nashville, we moved to Greenhills and
we lived in this place called Greenhills, Oh my god, Terrace.

(06:00):
It was a condominium complex, and I had a bicycle
and I was only allowed to bike on that side
of the road, on the left side of Hillsboro Road,
not the right side of hills Very Road, and a's
luck would have it, about two blocks down is the
world famous Bluebird Cafe. Of course, I didn't know that.
I'm just a little fourteen year old kid biking along
and it's the summertime. The days are super long, and

(06:21):
so I'm out biking around and enjoying my summer. And
I noticed there's people that line up in front of
this place like every night, and so finally I pull
over on what I imagine to be like my hot pink
cuffee or something like that, and go like, Hey, what's
this place. It's a music venue, little girl, and there's
shows every night. The early show in the Late Show.

(06:42):
So then my dad we moved here because my family
was opening a restaurant and so I grew up like
around restaurants and restaurant kitchens and everything like that. And
so about a week or two later, I'm biking around
and I'm in the back parking lot of what would
be the strip mall of the Bluebird, and there's a
guy outside that works in the kitchen who's smoking a cigarette.

(07:03):
And I said, Hey, is this the kitchen for the Bluebird?
And he's like, yeah, So just park my bike and
I just walk right through it. And then I walked
in through the back way and I see the sound person.
For some reason, the sound person went he just points
and he has me sit on that little ledge in
the back.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
And then I just started doing it every night.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Oh wow, So there you go. So that but you
had you Okay, that's an awesome story.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
And I thought every town had a Bluebird. I thought
it was a thing. I thought like, oh, you know,
Des Moines, Iowa has songwriters. You know, Atlanta, Georgia has
the Bluebird Cafe. There's songwriters there.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Well now, maybe yeah, But.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
I mean I thought it was just like the same
thing as an accounting firm.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Sure it's a thing. So well, were you did you
have any experience musically or songwriting before that happened? So
you got there and kind of were drawn in. So
maybe the explain or describe that first songwriters around you
saw there.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Well, I don't remember the first one, okay, but I
remember very soon, very very soon after that, they said,
if you want to see a great songwriter around, you
need to come see this guy named Don Schlitz. So
I was like, okay. So I found out when he
was playing. He was playing like the next Monday night.
So then it was litle late show because the bigger
you are the early shows like from six to eight,
and then the next one starts at like nine. So

(08:24):
I had to go get permission from my parents to
go to this late show, and I go, and I
meet Don Schlitz, and opening for him is Alan Chamblain,
who's now one of the most legendary songwriters on the planet.
But I'm, like I said, I'm this little kid and
or this young teenager, barely a teenager, and it did

(08:45):
not occur to me that I wanted to play the guitar.
It did not occur to me that I wanted to
sing the songs or write the songs. I wanted to
sit there and tell the jokes. It was the banter
of the the banter, and they were like pirates. They
were all like and it didn't occur to me either,
Like I don't think it occurred to me for at
least I remember I found I begged my mom to

(09:07):
come with me, like, I mean, this just became a thing.
Like I was there, like, no, who would watch TV
when you live two bucks in the right, Yeah, And
they were just let me come in there all the time.
And so I remember begging my mom to come see
and play, and my mom said, she goes, I just
want to state the obvious. And I go what and
she goes, you do realize they were all men? And

(09:28):
I was like, oh, oh yeah, okay, okay, I got
to do something about that, you know. And then then
I started going and I realized that it was almost
all men, as it still is, you know. When I
just played at the listening room a couple of weeks
ago with Emily Shackleton and Victoria Banks, and they were

(09:50):
all excited because we were one of the first all
female shows WOW in twenty twenty four on a Saturday night, right,
you know, but it shouldn't even be an issue, Like
I don't actually want to be a woman writer. I
just want to be a writer. Sure, And I think
going to the Bluebird all for all those years, I
just it never it was so great because I'd never

(10:12):
occurred to me I was a woman. In fact, I
always say, I've never thought of myself as a she.
I've just thought of myself as a person trying to
do a job within the confines of my.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, body song is a song.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah, yeah, except it's not. I mean it is a song,
is a song. But I definitely I know that I
have not been allowed in all sorts of rooms and
gotten I've gotten so many fewer chances than men with
if I had stayed within the confines of music Row
because music row is it's okay, no very exclusive. Yeah,

(10:53):
whereas and that's half the reason why. When I was
at the beginning of my career, I'm twenty one, I
meet a guy named Kenny wyn Shepard who's sixteen seventeen
years old. Kenny didn't have any problem, right, and so
pre before I know it, I'm writing with rock bands.
They never had a problem I swear to God, you know,
sister Hazel, I'm trying to think of all the great
bands that played worked with. Never comes up. It's only

(11:16):
male artist and male songwriters, and not exclusively just.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, but that's.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Who I want to write with anyway. I want to
write with men because I like men. Yeah, I like
writing that kind of song.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
So how did you get your way in? What was
what was the for lack of a better term, what
was the trick or was there one?

Speaker 2 (11:38):
I don't know?

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Did you just branch out of the music row country thing?

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Well, what I saw My first publishing deal was with
a guy named Tom Collins, and I was super lucky.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
I went.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
I was going to school in North Carolina and Chapel Hill,
but I was also trying to finish college early, so
I was going to Vanderbilt summer school. And I met
this guy while at Vanderbilt and I condensed him. He
was a really great performer, but I convinced him that
he needed help on his songs, and he was. I

(12:12):
don't I still don't even understand the gumption of that.
Like now, I can't even understand where did.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
I possibly definitely a trick, that's a trick.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
I love it, but I mean, but I at the time,
I just did it, you know, and it's.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
A dangerous tree. He could have gotten mad at you. Yeah,
I need help on your songs.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, but he didn't. But he didn't for some reason.
And I don't even know how I phrased it, Like
I must have phrased it better than that what I
just said. I mean, But but it worked, and lo
and behold, he got a publishing deal, then he got
a record deal, and he was kind of we had
our first top five together with him. I'm like twenty

(12:50):
one years old. And then very soon after that, I
remember sitting down with Tom Collins, my publisher, and I
was always saying, don't refer to me as a woman,
don't refer to me as a girl on your roster,
don't say you've got a girl writer. Don't do it. Please,
don't do it. And I was constantly fighting for that,
don't do it, don't do it, don't do it, don't
do it. And so that's when he was like, going,

(13:11):
can you write blues. There's this blues cat named Kenny
way Sheppard. I went home and studied up. I boned
up so hard. I'm like got my guitar out, you know,
born under a bad sign. I'm like, I can do this,
I can do this, and I mean that's what I
wanted to do. So and then it was an amazing
amount of and I call it luck on purpose, luck timing, fortune,

(13:35):
but that early success with those out of the box
males set the stage for other like minded males to
embrace me and to wit. In my whole career, I

(13:55):
think I've only written like I did. I have Reebon
McIntyre's new single, and I wrote it with another woman.
I think that's the first time in my entire life.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
Oh yeah, that's something got cut like that. It's just
you too.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, it's called I Can't And she released it this
year whatever.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
So awesome.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
But I mean to point though, that's how important I
still feel. I mean, I've worked too hard to try
to just be a writer that I actually didn't don't
even want to. God, it just sucks to have to
say this, or not to even think that I'm saying
this out loud. I I think I probably avoid writing

(14:37):
with women. Okay, I'm trying not to, but I actually
think I have in my career because I knew enough
that once I started doing that, I might.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
Be you don't want to get pigeonholed or something.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, yeah, which really bites.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, but it has nothing to do with with how
good someone is or not. Right. No, right, well, it
feels like you, I mean, obviously you kind of niched
your way in going back to those bluebird times. Like, right,

(15:17):
I'm really interested in when it clicked for you. So
you're in there watching those shows, watching the banter, falling
in love with songs, I assume, and then when was it?
When did it click where you're like, I want to
write that way you want to be there.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
I also don't even think I understood that those songs
were hits. I don't even think I got that, because,
first of all, I didn't listen. I wasn't listening to
those genres of music. You know, I'm listening to whatever
my parents were. I'm just beginning. I'm listening to the police,
you know what I mean. I'm listening. I don't even
know what I'm listening to. Yeah, I don't even know

(15:52):
what I'm listening to, but I'm whatever it is that
I'm listening to. It wasn't that music. I don't think
I understood that it was. They were playing legendary sure
number one songs.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Well year, what years were these?

Speaker 2 (16:04):
This might give us eighteen eighty eight, eighty nine, ninety
ninety one, all that right there.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, And.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Like like I remember Alan Shamblin had written I Can't
make you Love Me if you don't not at that point,
but like four or five years later, and I had
just discovered Bonnie Rait at that point, and that's that's
when I like, I was like, oh oh oh, oh
oh oh, that's how big a song can be in

(16:36):
current time, in real time. I actually know this person
who wrote this song. I've been watching him since I
was fourteen. This is the first thing that went in
my hardbrout drive. But my mother, who was just brilliant,

(16:57):
and this was an era you know for Google, right,
So I would say I liked a song. We'd be
listening to something on the radio and my mom would
go and find out who wrote it, and she would say,
that's a Burt backrack, hol David's song, Okay backrack, that's
a Bernie Top and Elton John song. Okay, yeah, Sting

(17:20):
wrote that huh okay, uh huh uh huh and putting
that too. It was a slow. It was a.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Slow so she it sounds like she recognized it in you, though.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Well, my mom and my dad were both really really,
really creative people, and they both were wildly talented, and
they did more pragmatic things with their life, and I
think that they probably both secretly were hoping that I
would do something really creative but also not wanting to. Sure, Yeah,

(18:01):
because it's also nebulous right to do anything creative. It's
still such a nebulous thing. I mean, you can go
to college, you can get a degree in music business
or songwriting or fine art or whatever, and that does
exactly nothing. I mean, it gives you the feeling and
the skill set, but it doesn't actually do the next thing,
which is this crazy lightning striking mojo fortune. And then

(18:28):
and then on top of all that, you have to
then keep your wits about you, right right, I mean,
you start having hits or being successful, then you have
to keep your your wits about you. You can't become
impressed with it because then you lose your the very
thing law. It's a lot.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah, it makes sense. It makes a ton of sense
when you get that lightning bolt situation, Like when was
there a time younger in your writing career, where you thought,
do have something good, Like I have a talent at this.
I mean it's obvious, but before maybe before you landed

(19:10):
something bigger.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
No, now you know, I think I think two very
important things, three very important things. So I was in
a non graded school when I was a little, tiny kid,
all like a monassory school, and so I really had
no concept in monassory school, like you'd be in one

(19:32):
class and you'd be with a bunch of twelve year olds,
never mind that you're eight, and then another class you'd
be in a class with a bunch of six years
old because you're not as good at it. So like
I was in Math, I was with younger kids. Right
I was in English, I was with older kids. So
I was already sort of groomed. I had a super
hard time adjusting to high school. Then when it was

(19:53):
suddenly graded, I had nothing in common, or I felt
that I had nothing in common with my high school peers.
In fact, I jokingly say I have no memory of it.
Although I never drank a drop of liquor or did
any drugs. I just blacked it out. It was a
really unpleasant time that you just have to muscle through, right.

(20:15):
And what I did during that time because I didn't
like that, is I just went incredibly inward. Now I
see that. And what's really so I learned I developed this.
I must have already had it as a little kid,
but this inward imagination mind which I very much was

(20:36):
able to harness, and it served me very well as
a songwriter over these years. And then also when my
beloved husband got really sick and had to battle cancer
and then he died and I lost him. I mean,
he was my favorite collaborator and everything, but my inner

(20:57):
world that I already had learned how to use, I
just went and lived there for a while.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
And so, in a weird way, high school, losing my
husband in cancer very similar dark time for sure. Yeah,
And I just went inward. And I think in that
inward time, I think I was thinking of creative things.
I just don't think I was thinking of them.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
As a song, right, or as an accomplishment or as
an accomplishment. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
I was also in plays, I sang in choir. I
know I wrote things because I found them, you know
what I mean? Right, And that's the other thing that's
really weird. I've been a person who's kept like journals
and notes my whole life. And I went back during
the pandemic and like, read a bunch of my things
and fourteen year old Tia and grown up to you

(21:52):
ain't no difference. Yeah, I mean, holy moly, seven year
old Tia forty year old Tia exactly the same. And
I would I was, in one way pleasantly surprised.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
You know. Yeah, so going inward, I like what you
said about that, because so much art comes from that space,
from loss, from you know, the pressures of high school.
They're just life in general, whether you're working nine to five,
whatever you're doing, how much of that seeps into your writing?

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Oh? At this point, I think I'm just like a walking, talking,
super thin skinned wound. Yeah, and my superpower is what
kind of emotion do you want? Okay, give me a minute.
Oh yeah, I got that, and then nip of the
vein a little bit of blood. Can we get a

(22:54):
band aid quickly? And then yeah, yeah, I mean, and
I don't write. I stopped writing. I stopped writing a
couple of different times in my life, but I really
stopped writing after Moss died and I kind of made

(23:16):
this deal with myself or the deal with the universe,
as if the universe was listening, I'll tell you universe.
But I decided to like, who would Tia be if
she had never met him?

Speaker 1 (23:30):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (23:32):
And so I really went back to Tia when no
one would really write with Tia or maybe like let's
say high school Tia, college Tia, and just locked myself
in the room and wood shedd it. Really would shed
it on the guitar. I really would shed it on

(23:52):
the piano. And then started writing by myself, which I
never really got to do because I had so much
early success. I was immediately collaborating, collaborating, collaborating. So then
I kind of did that thing that most people do
for the first seven eight years of their career when
they're trying to get people to write with them, is
I wrote by myself. Yeah, and and I think that

(24:20):
that so now I only not only but I almost
only write from I was going to say experience. It's
not that the song is a personal experience, but I
can use my experience to touch the song.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Sure you've been through enough to, like you said earlier,
tap into a vein. Yeah, that you've had, well, I've
had I remember what this felt like? Yeah, this line.
So you're able to put words to that feeling. Yeah,
better than somebody who's I'm arguably better than someone who's
just making up a story.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah yeah, And you know the other that's also that's
one of my other problems, like why I'm actually really
not a very good songwriter, or I mean, I'm not
a very good professional songwriter, and that I really don't
want to repeat myself. Okay, I really don't want to
write the same song all the time. I don't want
to you know. One of the things that I find
so limiting about a lot of the songs written by

(25:27):
the guys who all wear the same baseball caps and
the same T shirts and they all stand up there
and it's there's five hundred words. There's five hundred words.
That's it. It's like you can come up with some
clever way. You could say chrome instead of bumper, you
know what I mean. But it's got to have a truck,
it's got to have a back road, it's got to

(25:47):
have somebody with my genome and it, you know what
I mean. It I find that really limiting, kind of
like playing a Rubik's Cube and at some point that
that's not what I sat out to do.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Let me ask you this for I hope you dance.
Did you feel that pressure to write something else in
that vein after that?

Speaker 2 (26:09):
No?

Speaker 3 (26:09):
No.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
But that's the other thing too, is that I only
felt that pressure at fleeting times, at different times, and
then I almost always was lucky enough for the first
beginning of my career to have a publisher sayd stop
doing that to you. Don't do no, no, no, no no.
You stay in your bubble, you do?

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Do?

Speaker 2 (26:29):
You stay in t your world? Don't pay attention to that.
But I definitely feel because I mean, I haven't. I mean,
in my defense, I'm curious. I've been saying this a
lot too, because I just signed a new publishing deal
and I've been saying this to my publishers. It's like
between Moss getting sick and then dealing with cancer and
then death and a pandemic. I'm really curious to see

(26:52):
what I can do without being severely compromised, right, And.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Do you trust yourself?

Speaker 2 (27:05):
I do? I thank you, Yes, I do.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
I asked that because I've been through some things and
I feel a lot of days where I don't where
I'm like, well, i can't tap into this song or
this right because I'm still stuck over here and it's
just like a health thing.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
Well, but what you're what you're saying is interesting because
you're still trusting yourself to know that you can't do.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
It right or or I'm lying to myself. I'm saying
I can't do something that I can do I can.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah, that's really now that that's super fascinating off the subject,
but it's like, that's one of the things that I've
realized now because I've spent a number of years alone,
and I've spent a number of years hoping I would
find someone else to love me, and then kind of
making peace with that and just stead of settling into
myself and and realizing it's all my friends and all

(28:02):
the connections, and I have this amazing life of all
these people. And I trust all of my friends, I
really do, and I really love the different relationships I
have with them more than I think I've ever had
ever in my life. And it's maybe because I've spent
so much time also model muddling through my own me

(28:28):
the skin and bones I can't slip right, So then
I've collected all of these people that to the point
to a point now, like if a man actually you
know forks with men, tries to enter my life, if
he's not as good as my friends, he doesn't even

(28:49):
get a chance at this point. And actually, I'm trusting
myself on that of like, oh no, actually, if I
chase this a little bit further, this is going to
upset the apple cart of my very great, dynamic life
right now. So I'm trusting that. Yeah, you just helped
me rule. I mean, I didn't realize that till you
just know.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
You're coming on with therapy. Yeah, what about this? This
is a curveball question. I think, did you ever have
any kind of issue? So I'm always interested in this
as far as number ones go or big songs go,

(29:31):
does the writer ever have an issue not being the
one in the spotlight per se? Like if you wrote
this song, you know, for Kenny Wayne Shephard, but you
didn't get to be you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
I think I'm the perfect songwriter.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Okay, explain I'm the.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Most perfect songwriter there is because or I'm the perfect
example of what a songwriter should be, should be or
could be, because what I really want to do is
slip my skin and write other people's songs. I want
to write songs and have these songs go out in
the world and have nobody guess in a million years that, yeah,

(30:12):
this person wrote them.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
You like being behind the scenes. I like it.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
It's like beyond beyond, behind the scenes. It's like you're
a puppeteer. It's like you write these songs that go
on and have incredible lives. Yeah, independent of.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
You, that's great. I think that songwriters are not behind
the scenes. I feel like you probably agree. But I mean,
they built the thing and then someone else, maybe they
co wrote on it. Some artists don't, but they're getting
all of the oh right center stage.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
It's my favorite. I mean, I love being the songwriter.
But what's what I think is interesting is one of
the reasons why maybe I've been had the success I've
had is because well, I'm just gonna use my wonderful
late husband as an example. My late husband's name was
Mark Selby, and he was so talented, he was so awesome,

(31:09):
and he was such an artist, and he had the
hardest time, the hardest time when we were writing a song.
Taking him out of it okay, and we would be
working on a song for this other person. I'm like,
we've got to sound less like yourself right here? Can
we can we take? Can you do that? Can you?
Can you do this? You know what I mean? Or

(31:30):
I know you don't like that guitar tone, but this
person likes this guitar tone, and this song commands demands
this guitar tone, or this song demands this phrasing. It's
almost like it's almost like when you walk into a
tutor house. You don't paint it neon green and put
I don't know, Spanish Mediterranean furniture in it. I mean,

(31:52):
I don't know, you know what I mean. You know
what I mean. It's like it's a tutor house, so
you have to sort of lean into the tutor or
you know, a little country farmhouse probably doesn't have you know,
Barcelona chairs in it. Maybe, I mean, you know what
I'm saying. That's like the house kind of the song.
Oh I know, it's better. The song is king. The
song's in charge. The song is in charge. So let

(32:15):
the song be in.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Charge unless you want it to be your song.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Exactly, yeah, exactly, yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
So even then it's still in charge. It's just in
charge of you exactly, and you get to do whatever
you want.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
And now it's like one of the things as I've
started writing more songs by myself is I've actually made
my own songs now, Like I have my own songs
that are very much my own songs. I'm in charge
of them. Yeah, maybe they'll be recorded by other people,
maybe they won't, but i know what I'm doing. I'm like,
I'm putting a lot of me in this song, whereas
and there's other songs like the one We're gonna listen
to you in a little while, I bent over backwards.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
Getting to serve the song.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
It, yeah, to where I'm like completely invisible.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yes, let's talk about that. Yeah, because you're working with
Flight Attendant, maybe give us like a little bit of
what kind of music they're doing.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
So Flight Attendant is a band here out of Nashville.
A whole bunch of them were Belmont students, but they
didn't meet at Belmont, even though they knew each other.
A bunch of they basically met at this restaurant called
Fifth and Taylor, different waiters and bartenders in the service industry,
all that stuff, and they all formed there Carolyn is
the front man of the band, and she I kind

(33:30):
of say because she's also my best friend. She's kind
of like being best friends with Deborah Harry and Chrissy
Hind at the same time. It's like, yeah, my friend
Carolyn Wgarner. And she's a very large personality. She's got
an elastic voice, she plays a million different instruments. She's
a classical pianist, wicked smart, comes from a super hyper

(33:52):
intelligent family. She's also chaotic and like kind of unhinged.
You don't quite know what she's gonna do. Yeah, sometimes
I say on stage, if she just sort of spontaneously combusted,
I'd be like, well, there she went, you know, Whereas

(34:12):
it's fascinating the uh Nikki Christi is the string player,
the violin viteola player, and she's amazing. She's beautiful and
very tightly wound and intense and perfectly orchestrated and controlled.
And Peyton the bass player, also just laying down the groove.
He's got that. He's this long, willowy he looks like

(34:33):
a human noodle, and he's just sort of it's just
so cool. Derek the drummer, you know, super super crazy,
tight but these are all they're they're doing their job.
They're holding corners, they're holding their corners. And then there's
the guitar player who also sings Vinnie Vinnie. I swear
to god, it looks like like he's just been dropped

(34:54):
off an alien landing landed on stage. Is like, what
the hell? What am I doing here? He looks like
completely surprised. Every time he plays, it's like, whoa, Okay,
here we go. Yeah, you know, and and it creates
this raucous jubulence. Yeah, and it's tight and loose at
the same time. And I first saw them play right

(35:16):
before the Pandemic at the Fifth and Tailor in the
back corner, and I was just I've never been like
this ever. But I was like, first of all, how
do I make her my friend? And how do I
get to be in this band?

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (35:29):
And you know, now it's five years later. I think
it's five years.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
So that's so fun. Have you written? Okay, so you
described the band like you all right together? Is that
how it goes?

Speaker 2 (35:41):
It depends and that that's the other thing I really love.
One of the things that happens in Nashville a lot.
If you're a commercial songwriter, professional songwriter, whatever you want
to call it. Writing every day is that you're not
writing with the same people every day, but you each

(36:02):
come in. You've got a job. Here we go, we're
gonna write this song, right, and your skill set is
thus that you can write a whole lot of different
kinds of songs. That's kind of your job, your songwriter first.
Maybe you're a musician an artist second, right, unless you're
writing with the artist, but and then the artist is
kind of first. But what's fascinating is when you're writing

(36:23):
with the band. Yes they're musicians, Yes they're singers, but
that doesn't necessarily mean that they're studio musicians or singers.
They're actually maybe not good enough quote unquote to be
a studio musician or a studio singer or you know
that they actually can just play in their style and
it's that style within the band. So the band has
all worked together and they've all learned their roles on

(36:45):
how to play. So they're all great musicians and performers,
but they might not be a studio musician or a
professional contract published songwriter.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, you know, yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
And so what you get what I love about being
in a band is you're kind of kind of a
marriage counselor couples counselor that you're also keeping the peace.
They all say negative, passitive aggressive things to each other.
He's later another smoke break or whatever. You know, that
kind of thing like that, which you would never say
in a professional writing situation. Right, we are all much

(37:22):
more well behaved, you know. I love that. I love
I mean, I love the not the well behaved part.
I like the the other part. I like the the
the weird dynamics of a band.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, yeah, because it's like a family.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
It's a lot, it's a lot like a family.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
Yeah, that's where I came. That's how I grew up
writing stuff. Was always in a band. Yeah, and yeah,
to get to Nashville and it it'd be like what
you're describing, like the like writing with pro songwriters in
a room or in a studio, it's it's intimidating after
writing with your buds or your family.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Like I was in a band with my brother, so
literally family, and we could do that passive aggressive thing
and nobody's you know, storming out, and if they do,
they come back and we finished the job.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
We always said this thing Moss and I did. We
we called it our songwriter hat. Like the second we
put our songwriter hat on, we were no longer husband wife.
It was not allowed. There was nothing domestic allowed in
the room. There was no you know, after this, we're
gonna go to the grocery store like that. No, no, no,
it was not allowed. We were only songwriters. We could
talk about music, we could talk about studio, we could

(38:36):
talk about sports, we could talk to anything, but nothing
about our relationship because it was it was like an
unfair little I just didn't like the way it played. Yeah,
So that was one of my rules when I wrote
with him.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah, because if also if it's if it's your career,
you don't we shouldn't afford yourself the luxury of, well,
if we're going to get a fight about this and
not write and not finish this thing, that this is
our job, right, There's all these little nuances that could
play into writing together. I've talked to a couple of

(39:13):
a few couples who are songwriters and performers together, and
that's it's very interesting to me to see that dynamic
happen and keep.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
It pro do you know, only because we're so close
have you met the Young Fables?

Speaker 1 (39:26):
Yeah, they were here.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
They're amazing and yeah, I mean I immediately thought of Laurel.
And they do a great job at being just I
love writing with them and I love I love not
feeling like the third wheel. We're just three writers. Two
of them happened to sleep together.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah, they're great. We did the their episode End this Room,
actually and it was it was easy. They're so great.
I love them. Flight Attendant.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
The song is called Let's listen to the work tape.
Our listeners would have heard a little bit of it
at the top of this episode as part of the intro,
but we'll take a minute and listen to this. This
is gonna be.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Well, let's just say, okay, okay, I'm trying.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
I'm gonna do it. You got it?

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Deep uh huh something like this.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
Trim then has all the cuts on the table to
keep the whole temptations and the fable.

Speaker 4 (40:38):
As we opened up this god damn book again.

Speaker 5 (40:46):
And the news it grows with the stop, as the
walls cave in.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Here we go again.

Speaker 4 (40:57):
Be my Russian down up play to my deep neptune
being made.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
Be my trap, Believe my twisting mind my grift scheme
be man, be my suit on me and my fruit,
or proof will really.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Here be mine? Be mine?

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Be mind? Is that all right?

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Back?

Speaker 3 (41:32):
And then I think it needs to eat.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
Riddle wrapped up tight in side, the thinking needs to go.
Riddle wrapped up tightn't set Yeah, stop y'all enigma, I
don't want all.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
Don't don't car change your background. It's a say beauties,
so don't follow in poll say come on in a
straight to mind only at the doors the son sorting son.

Speaker 5 (42:39):
Baggs, So let's spoke my sons. Not fast night.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
At the f.

Speaker 5 (43:01):
Want jam.

Speaker 4 (43:23):
Stas on the table to give no tations change the

(44:26):
heads of the cats on.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
The tables gave the ox tations.

Speaker 5 (44:32):
Of the faith. Take jump, don't gather.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
St okay Uh. This demo is cool and interesting because

(45:40):
I took you sent me to two demos, so I
mashed them together. The first one is you right singing over.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
This well, I think the first I think the first
one if you're if you did it the way I
think you would do it. The first one is where
we start singing the first first and it's actually Carolin
kind of singing it way in the background. And then
when we get to the second verse, there's and we
still don't have the chorus written. So that's when I
had kind of come up with this chorus idea. So

(46:11):
then that we just put me on I just pulled
out a phone and just started singing along to it.
Yeah and okay, so what I actually sang was the
second verse, the back part of the second verse, and
the second chorus, which is the chorus every time. And
even that, you know, I still didn't have the we
didn't have the melody flushed out or anything.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
Right. I love these I love the work tape. I
think it's super interesting. So for our listener's sake, listen
to the work tape, but go back and listen to
whatever's on Spotify, the finished product, because it's super cool.
I told you, I texted you and told you that, Well,

(46:54):
we were gonna we were talking about talking about a
different song. But I love the lyrics of this song,
and the other one's fantastic too, the whole I listened
the whole record today.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
Well, I mean, that's one of the things. It's so
much fun, is any day that I can go in
and write a catchy, connective, modern pop, smart song that
has six words I've never used in a song.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
I'm like, boom, yeah, you know what I mean. That's
that's what drew me into this song more than I
love the production and everything her voice, but the lyrics
drew me in because they're so they're kind of playful,
but they're really smart, like they're not so left field
where it sounds too artistic or something like too artsy.

(47:43):
I'm trying to be weird and make a point, and
I'm just going to read off the my favorite lyrics,
which I believe is the course. Be my Russian doll,
my player two, be my my deep neptune, be mine,
be my trampoline, my twisted mind, my grifter scheme, be mine,

(48:05):
my souvenir, my photo proof.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Brutal proof. Oh oh, be my Russian doll, my player,
to my deep neptune, be my trampoline, my twisted mind,
my grifter scheme, be mine, be my souvenir, my brutal
proof that we're really here. Be mine?

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Is that all right?

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Be mine? Be mine, Be mine.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
It's very cool, like it's not. It just provokes all
of these different well and I.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Mean, first of all, the whole thing started because Vinny Vinnie,
I'm gonna tell your story. There is a woman that
he's known forever since I think they went to like
elementary school together, and every time they are back in
the same orbit together there it's always this weird feeling
of sliding doors, of like what would it be? I'm

(48:52):
so confused, and he goes and sometimes I feel like
we keep taking off our hats or layers. We take
off layers and we go back to being sixteen, or
going back to be ten, or going back to twenty two.
And I immediately started thinking of Russian doll, you know,
the doll inside the doll inside the doll inside the doll,
and so so you know, be my Russian doll, my

(49:14):
Player two, I mean, come on, how much fun.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Is that to say?

Speaker 2 (49:16):
Right? And it's two not player like two Comma, but
player two like player one and player twos right. And
then I love brutal proof.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, sorry, I said photo because that's what it says
on well the Apple music.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Nobbl is wrong. We got to fix that. But brutal
proof yeah, grifters scheme, I mean grifter, come on, come on,
what a great word. And these are words I love.
I collect like sper I consider the muscular words like
really strong, but they're just a variety of words. I mean,
you could say crazy scheme, right, but grifter's a little
a little more unsavory, right right, you know, you know

(49:55):
deep Neptune. First of all, I was I had just
literally gone out on a day who's with a guy
been that love to swim and he kind of had
longer hair, and he kind of, I don't know, had
me thinking about Neptune. I don't know. I mean it
was like, all these things are all coming together.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Do you just collect all of these different words in
your mind? Do you keep them somewhere? Do you write?

Speaker 3 (50:17):
Well?

Speaker 2 (50:18):
I collect them in my mind and then also I
write them down, and then you know, I'm also trying
to think of things that are accessible, you know, like
the Greek and the Roman gods. Those stories have been
around forever. So I mean, if I say Perspapasis, that's
too esoteric. Yeah, but I think I could say Aphrodite
and people might know what Or I could say Romeo
and Juliet, right, but maybe, you know, maybe I can't

(50:39):
say something more more esoteric. But you know, Neptune, I
think everybody, and especially with the cartoons, God, where the
the the Disney.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
The Ocean, Oh Aquaman?

Speaker 2 (50:55):
No, even funnier than like Aerial Little Mermaid, Well, like
tunes in it. Yeah, I mean, so it's not that
esoteric anymore, you know. Or I mean, it's not like
I'm making some incredibly weird reference. However, when you do
go bleed, my Russian dial my deep neptune, you know,
my grifter scheme, my brutal proof, that's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
It is cool. It's very cool. It's fun. It's kind
of quirky, like when you go into a write like this,
Are you for this song in particular? Was there an
idea beforehand? Or did you? You guys till the Earth?

Speaker 2 (51:34):
You know, I'm always I'm collecting things. Yeah, and I'm
just like a I actually keep I have three drawers
in my house. I write down everything constantly, just stick
them and drawers, stick them in drawers, these three drawers,
and then about once a month. I used to have
a bowl, but it's gotten bigger now it's drawers. And
I just go through the drawers and pull out things,
and my brain will be thinking about certain things. I realize, like, wow,

(51:56):
I'm really quite obsessed with stars, right, now, okay, I'm
quite a sessed with Supernova's the word supernova, for example,
and that's my thing right now, you know. And like
so I was already obviously thinking about deep Neptune.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
And things like that, and then the stars line is great. Yeah,
it's a great line.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Yeah. And and then also I had just been literally
reading oh my god, uh Winston Churchill and Winston Churchill
after World War Two. He literally said, it's a riddle
wrapped inside a quagmire inside of an enigma. Yes, like
the how to solve this this conflict?

Speaker 1 (52:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
And so when we made that in the song riddle
wrapped up tight inside an enigma, I don't want to
try to understand it. Just be mine, you know what
I mean. So that like wormed its way in a
little bit of Churchill.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
You know.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
That's so it's so smart, and it's so like it's
also subtle it.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
Because it's also it counterbalances it immediately, like if you say,
I say enigma, it's wrapped up tight inside of enigma.
But I don't want to try to understand it. Just
be fine. Yeah, get over your get in my bed.
I mean that's basically what it's saying. And then it's
saying something saucy right next to it.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
It's a great song, thank you, I love it. What
are your musical inspirations right now? Who are you listening
to other than you know this band?

Speaker 2 (53:24):
Well, I mean I really play a lot by myself,
you know, and play a lot all my friends, like
they're almost all also musicians. We listen to each other's things.
But I mean when in doubt, like when I go

(53:45):
home and put on music, Uh, I've got I have
these records I call perfect records, like perfect from starting
to finish. One would be Annie Lennox Medusa. No, I'm sorry,
excuse me. One would be Annie Lennox Bear which is
this really esoteric record. One would be sometimes David Gray,

(54:10):
depending on my mood. Oh yeah, I love Portuguese music.
I love uh jazz. I love Felonious Monk and and
and Jay Bobreck and all that stuff. It just set
of jangles in my head up and takes me in
places I don't understand. I love, uh, Robert Glassbar, I

(54:34):
love I'm just completely spacing out on this fabulous Portuguese
artist that I adore. Yeah, and then also too, you know,
my publisher Robert Phil Hart. He's sending me songs every day,
and they're not songs that are new songs. He's sending

(54:57):
me like standard classic songs just out in the world. Yeah,
he just sent me this amazing there's a really woman,
cool woman named Belle France, and Belle did this amazing
cover version of the Last One to Know, which is
an old Shelby Lynn song from like maybe the eighties.
And he just sent me that last week and I

(55:19):
probably listened to that twenty times. Yeah, or Clay Bradley
BM I years ago sent me Robert Palmer's Get Outside,
and that sent me on like a crazy deep dive
of Robert Palmer, who I just think is one of
the greatest artists. His early stuff is just sick.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
Those deep dives hit me also, like I've been on
a like there's so much music in the world, and
I feel like I get me and my buddy we're
talking about it the other day, like I'll get just
caved into American whatever music that I like. And he
started sending me like Japanese jazz fusion stuff and I

(55:59):
must have out of my couch for four hours just
going down the rabbit hole. Yeah, and it's so much.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Japanese jazz is.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Great from like the seventies though, like get nothing new, Yeah,
and the recordings sound phenomenal and it's just like, if
you want to find new music, you can find it
and it's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
I did one of the coolest things I've ever done
this summer is I went to the Montro Jazz Festival.
Oh cool, and I got to see like Paula Nutuni,
who's one of my favorite rock pop artists. And then
I got to see Dionne Warwick.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Wow, God's sake, and then.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Oh John Batist. Yes, it was The variety of music
was just insane.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
So he's he's he's crazy.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
It was just crazy and just positive and happy and
everything I saw Trombone Shorty is. But you know what's
interesting is to go back to what I was saying
earlier is in a way I do listen to music,
but in another way, I'm largely in my head.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
So do you ever wonder what it's like to hear
music as someone who's not a musician or a writer.
I think about that sometimes and I don't. I can't
imagine what it is like.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
I have no real reference for it, you know, So
I'm here with my friend, Ryan's tagging long tonight and
Ryan and I were just talking about how fascinated we
are by sounds or by like I'm better at singing

(57:38):
than he is. He's a better musician than I am.
And he was like, ah, but it's like that's what
we're talking about. We're not talking about. I mean, I
suppose we could talk about sports or politics. I suppose
we could, but we don't. All my friends, we don't
sit around and talk about that stuff. We talk about this.
Are we talking about? Oh my god, like we would

(58:00):
because he's Storgel Simpson a month ago and we're like,
he played three and a half hours long, never took
a break. It's like, that's what we're talking about, you know.
It's like and I try, I mean I really try.
I got I've got season tickets to the soccer game,
the NSC soccer because I grew up watching football, I
mean soccer with my dad and my family, and I thought,

(58:21):
you know, this is good. I need to become a
sports fan. I'm doing it. I'm doing it, you know.
And what's really funny is so I've become great friends
with my seat mates. But basically I'm not. I don't
think I'm gonna keep doing it as much as I
love them. It's like, I just want to be around music. Yeah,
I don't.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
Actually, that's okay.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
I got interested in sports. I don't want to people
watch people win and lose. It's not interesting to me.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
I had a teacher in middle school that's about the
time I got into playing guitar and writing and stuff.
And here's my pe teacher, and I would I hated
that class because I didn't care about, you know, any
of the activities or whatever. I just wanted to play music.
I couldn't wait to get out of school, so I'd

(59:06):
go home and play and I wouldn't bring my clothes
to change out, and I would forget and I will
never forget. He said, you know, Brandon, there's way more
life than just music. And I was like, no, there's no,
there's not no, no, I couldn't.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
I don't think.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
So it stuck with me forever, and I know what
he means, like, you can focus on, you know, doing
your job or what you need your responsibilities, but.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
But you know what you just said something that goes
back to the question of do you ever think about
people who don't think about music the way we do.
It's like the world needs all different kinds of people.
The world needs accountants, of course, the world needs managers.
The world needs people who are chefs.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
Yes, thank god, we're not all.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
I'm willing to bet you that a chef largely thinks
about being a chef.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Yeah right, yeah, food.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
You know, I'm pretty sure you know that, particularly anything
that you're passionate about, that's what you I'm pretty sure
that a professional sports player only thinks about their sport.
They're not really they're not thinking about juggling or or
firewalking or I'm trying to think of other I mean,
or flower arranging. Maybe they are, but.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
It's also weird to think about other people's passions and
I'm like, how can that be a passion that doesn't
make sense to me? Flower arranging? I get it, But
you know, like when you're so immersed in one thing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
But I mean, I also do think that that's your duty.
Like I'm always saying, I'm so glad, I'm so glad
I can play the guitar because I could be broke,
I could be quite lonely, I could be old, I

(01:00:55):
could be I could live in a tiny apartment. I
could live in a big mansion. Or I could play
this guitar. I could do this, or play the piano
or whatever. I could do this to fill up the
sound of the night.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Could you do something other than like, if this wasn't
your job, what do you think you might do?

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
I mean I kind of do because I also build houses,
so I do historical renovations, which is another Yeah. I
started doing that to keep myself fresh as a writer,
and I needed the other tactile, concrete thing. But I

(01:01:35):
have a friend of mine who's a doctor, and I
think about it a lot because I think about how
much time he spent studying to be a doctor, and
then how many hours in any one week he's seeing
patients and prescribing things and doing the things that he's
doing as an ear nose and throat doctor within the
purview of that job.

Speaker 4 (01:01:56):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
And I remember a long time ago kind of like,
you can't do music all the time, right. I remember
somebody saying to me, be very careful what you decide
to do, because you will become it. And so you know,
if you become a a prosecution attorney, prosecuted cutter attorney,

(01:02:22):
you're going to get very good at prosecuting right right,
or being latiginous, or or figuring out arguments and ways
around or that. You know, if you become a doctor,
you're going to get very good at diagnosing and prescribing.
And a doctor wants to fix things right. You become

(01:02:45):
a songwriter, you don't, you do not actually really do
want to fix something right, but you do want to
craft a song sometimes you might. But yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know what I mean. It's they're all different things.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Yeah, yeah, that's good.

Speaker 4 (01:02:58):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
I had something on deck. Hold on, I have to
remember it. Oh, so you've been doing this for a
long time, you've had success, figured it out whatever that means.
What would you say to.

Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
You?

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
Okay, so you've watched the landscape of music change, like
the industry has totally flipped upside down. Would you have
any advice for up and comers or anybody just songwriter
who's just not making an income at it, or people

(01:03:43):
chasing the things that don't exist anymore. Like it's harder
to get a pub deal than it used to be.
It's harder to do I mean, you name it, the
music industry. It's harder than it was streaming internet all the.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Stuff I read all all the time. I love to read.
I love to wake up in the morning and start reading.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
And this morning.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
I learned a new phrase, and it's flux. Gusto.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
That sounds cool.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
Everything is in flux, constantly in flux. It is never
not in flux. And you can have gusto about it
being in flux, or you can lament that it's in flux.

(01:04:38):
When Moss was sick and dying and dead, those were
all things I had absolutely no control over whatsoever. It
was this horrible, very very long, never ending lesson in

(01:05:00):
how much is not in our control, ending in me
losing the most important person in my life. So when
I hear people lament about something in the music business
not being the same, or any business, I want to
flick them right. I want to go, oh baby, it's

(01:05:22):
not yet the way it was. How about you lose
your best friend. Now you can lament that. You can
lament going bankrupt, you can lament your house burning down.
The fact that business or industry is changing, It's always
been that way. Take a class in economics. It's a
rule of forty the odds of any industry lasting more

(01:05:45):
than forty years since the sins. I think it's eighteen
eighteen twenty, since eighteen twenty, any one industry staying unchanged
for more than forty years. So we're two hundred years
into change, like more rapid change. Before then, we didn't
even have books, you know, for God's says, we don't

(01:06:06):
have a car. I get it. The first seventy four
thousand years, very little change. But now it's really changing.
It's like I think the only way to operate and
this time is flux. Gusto is onward and you can't

(01:06:28):
be lamenting too much of the past. How flexible and
jubilant can you be? And then to that point to
everyone out there, now is the time to be the
most excellent version of yourself and to learn the most

(01:06:49):
excellent skills because AI is going to take over everything
average and mediocre. Boo, all sink, goodbye, all that.

Speaker 4 (01:07:00):
Bye.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
As I has got that all day long. It can
fabricate that. What AI can't fabricate is actual real human emotion.
Yes that, So now is the time to be the
most unique, the most Practice. Practice, practice, go home practice,

(01:07:26):
don't don't use a MIDI, don't don't cheat, don't use
your computer, play, learn how to do it, do the
things that the computer can't do.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
Yeah, like what you said earlier, like if everything goes
to hell, you sell your guitar.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Yeah, you still have your guitar.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
You don't need to plug it in.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
And what's amazing is if we lose electricity, Yeah, you
could play in the dark. You could play with that internet.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
Yeah. So just what your your advice for up and
comers is to keep going.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
Escially and to not it's it takes just as much
energy to be paralyzed or to lament, or to be
frustrated or angry or bitter or jaded or it takes

(01:08:17):
a lot of energy. That takes a lot of energy.
It also takes a lot of energy to be curious positive.
I mean they're both. They're like muscles, right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
I learned the hard way in life that self pity
is exhausting. It's the highest form of arrogance because you're
only thinking of you, and it's exhausting. It's exhausting.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
You go to bed at night and you're exhausted, and
then you're you're arrogant and you're tired and you're mad.
I'm also exhausted trying to live a jubulant life now,
it's all. But I would rather be exhausted trying because
it's gonna it's gonna make you tired either way.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting. There's a perception,
at least a musically speaking, like in this town to
me that well, maybe it used to be easier, but
I think it just used to be different. That's your point, right,
it just used to We didn't know things in the
nineties that we know now, Like things didn't exist. So yeah,

(01:09:24):
if you landed a deal the same way in nineteen
ninety and you land it now, that's that'd probably be
an amazing story and wouldn't happen now. But well, also
you have to just keep it going.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
I mean to quote Heraclitus, my favorite philosopher. He said
two of my favorite things, and that is, you never
step in the same river twice. It's not the same water,
it's not the same man, right, and the sun really
never sets it all, it's just your turn for darkness.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
That's good, wish it in there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
And that was but you know, five thousand freaking years ago. Yeah,
but it's like, so if you never step in the
same river, twice. Why would you expect any one day
to be the same, Yeah, or.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
Any one thing that you're making. Yeah, that's good. That's
good advice.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
Heraclets.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
Thank you for being here. Thank you, it was fun
to talk to you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
It was really fun talking to you. Good questions.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
Where can people find more stuff about you and what
you're doing and what you're up to? You you have
writers' rounds coming up?

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
Or I'm playing thirty the thirty a festival in January.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
Okay, I'll probably.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Be playing something like at the listening room and backstage
Nashville at Third and Lendsley in the new year. I
always do things like that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
Cool.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
I love the Bluebird of course. And then I'm on
Instagram just my little old name Tia Sellers and I'll.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
Yeah and flight Attendant.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
And flight Attendant. Yeah, check them out. They're on Spotify,
they're on Title. They've got great videos.

Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
Maybe we can get them on the podcast so you
would love them.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
I know you would love them.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
That'd be fun. Well, thanks again, thank you, We did
it all right. Work Tapes is produced by me Brandon
Carswell special thanks to Tia Sellers and Flight Attendant. You
can find more about flight attendant at flight Attendant band

(01:11:35):
dot Com. Production assistants by Jonas of Litton thanks to
Nick Autry Soundstage Studios and Black River Entertainment. Writing assistants
by Daniel Sheppard and don't forget to like and subscribe
to work tapes everywhere you listen

Speaker 5 (01:12:00):
Bel

All Episodes

Episode 55 - Tia Sillers - Be Mine (Flight Attendant)

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 55 - Tia Sillers - Be Mine (Flight Attendant)