Episode 65 - Dave Barnes - Someday This Will All Make Sense - Worktapes

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, you know that feeling when you hear a melody
that just won't leave your head, or you hear lyrics
that seem like they were written just for you. How
does a song even get there? Sometimes I feel like
I have all the pieces of a song, but no
idea how to put them all together. Other Times I
feel like am I crazy? Or is this one actually good?
Back in episode sixty one of Work Tapes, I interviewed

(00:22):
Clay Mills, who wrote Diamond Rio's number one hit song
Beautiful Mess. In that episode, we learn that Clay is
the co founder of songtown dot Com along with Marty Dotson.
Songtown offers community, coaching and connections, all built by hit
songwriters for songwriters just like you and me. Whether you're
a bedroom dreamer just starting out, or a season pro

(00:43):
with lots of success. Songtown dot Com gives you access
to expert feedback where you'll learn from the best, with
critiques from professional songwriters who've topped the charts. You'll get
in depth tutorials mastering the craft from melody and lyric
writing to production and pitching. You'll get access to a
thriving community where you can connect, collaborate, and find your

(01:04):
try so, stop wondering what if and start writing what's next.
Visit songtown dot com forward slash work Tapes and unlock
your song's true potential.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
This is where your song's next chapter starts.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Songtown dot Com Forward slash Worktapes. Welcome to work Tapes.

(01:40):
This is a podcast where we tear up our songs.
Why with a song written? What's it about? What's the
context and emotion behind it? Where were you at the time,
what were you going through? How did certain lines come
to you? What's the inspiration? How long did it take
to write? I'm Brandon Carswell and I'm fascinated with a songwriter.

(02:00):
How songs are built from the ground up.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
It's easy to.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Hear a full production song on the radio and dismiss
its origin story. I want to hear the rough draft
of the song for the work take. I want to
explore the very beginning. How songs that move us and
make us move are more.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
The tracks in the driveway that he left while she
was sleep halfway too early and search of something like me.
There's a guy that she pres too, But if she

(02:48):
prees wrong, willy.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Leave to the boys out of school. All suddenly seem.

Speaker 4 (02:55):
So Dissy Go Live Live the Beastdent Song Day.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Welcome to work tapes everyone. I am Brandon Carswell as
usual and today's guest is Today's guest has made his
way in songwriting, comedy, podcasting, and songwriting. He's collaborated with
people like Amy Grant, Matt Wirtz, Carrie Underwood, Thomas Rhett,

(03:32):
Marion Morris, and with the help of Blake Shelton, scored
a Grammy nominated number one hit song called God Gave
Me You. He's the co host of a podcast called Dadville,
and today we're going to discuss a song that he
wrote called Someday this Will all Make Sense, and we're
going to listen to the work tape of that song.

(03:53):
A man of many personalities.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Dave Barnes welcome, Thanks for having me. And just so
everyone knows, that took like five times to get.

Speaker 5 (04:03):
Down the intro, but you really stuck at that time,
and I think sticking to English was the move.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (04:09):
The Spanish one was good, but it meandered Dutch.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Dutch. Yeah, it's a hard language. It's a lot of
hard hours. How are you Thanks for coming good? Yeah,
thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Appreciate I we met kind of through. Well, we definitely
met through Mica talks.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Who you've worked with and sex in a day? Worry,
what did you talk to something about?

Speaker 5 (04:31):
I was trying to see if he could do a mix.
But he's like, bro, I'm just busy. I'm so busy.
I was like, and I literally texted him someone as
talented as you should be busy.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
He is busy. I can't even hang out with him.
I know.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
So yes, thanks for being here. I want to start
with you. Let's just start and dive in. Let's dive in,
Let's dive in deep. Because I think that I was
singing about this, like how am I going to intro Dave?
What am I going to ask him first? And you're
such like an animated guy and I am not. I'm

(05:06):
the opposite of you. I'm pretty soft spoken. People are
not sure if I'm even nice to when they meet me.
Thank you for saying that. So I'm like, okay, my
aim is to get to the serious side of Dave Bondo.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
It's there.

Speaker 5 (05:21):
It's just it's like jaws lurking beneath at all times,
is it? Oh yeah, staring up at those legs. Just
see but I know it turn it just comes right.
Let's start with what drew you into music, because you
you do so many things which I think we should
talk about. But what were like your early years, what

(05:45):
go all the way back to did you start in
music as a kid. Were you fascinated with it that
early or were you later? So that my dad and
mom both love music, which I think really matters in
my story because it was kind of always on in
the background, like if dad always say that if Dad
was doing anything, he had and he's still alive, but

(06:06):
like he just always got music on, Like if he
was in the garage, music on, if he was working
the art, music was on in the garage so we
could hear it. I mean, he just really loved music.
And so I think in some ways that I sort
of osmodically both picked that up, you know, because I'm
kind of the way if I'm the same way, if
I'm doing anything, I probably got music on the background,
but I didn't, you know, it wasn't it wasn't something

(06:27):
I knew that could be done professionally. Like I knew
obviously people did it because I listened to it, But
there wasn't sort of like a pedigree for like, oh,
so for me it was. And I lived in a
really small town in Mississippi, so I didn't even know.
I didn't know somebody that played guitar like I'd never
seen in real life a human play guitar, probably to
my first concert, Amy Grant, Michael Wui Smith's shout out

(06:49):
really yeah and Jackson that's full circle. Yeah it is,
and it's crazy. Yeah yeah, I could talk about that
for a long time. But anyway, so I didn't know
that my first real interaction with it in a way
that really like felt like a lightning strike as I
went over to friends of mine, this is such a
random story. And I'd always loved music like I always
loved it. I think i'd been playing drum set at

(07:11):
this point because I played Marching band and I played
drums and marching band, and then that was kind of
a you know, like the gateway drug to drum set,
which I loved. My mom and dad bought me one
of those, I think seventh eighth grade, and I loved it.
I played it all the time, would put tapes on
and play along and do that thing.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
For those who remember tapes, my work tapes.

Speaker 5 (07:29):
Yeah, same, God you are good, they said, you're good,
but trid better, and I imagine.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
And so I.

Speaker 5 (07:38):
Went over to my friend's house and he had one
of those member time Life used to sell those series
of CDs that'd be like Romance or My Ruck, and
he had I think it was nineteen seventy eight, which
is the year I was born, and it was like
the Hits of nineteen seventy eight.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
And I don't know why.

Speaker 5 (07:52):
I mean, I don't know why, but we we were
hanging out in a room to put the CD on
the stereo, and I remember to me, I remember clearly
he might be like, you weren't doing that, but I
remember standing in front of the stereo and being at
the age were like early teens, and it was like
American Woman was on there more than a Feeling by
Boston was on there. There was like four or five songs,

(08:14):
and it was like the first time I'd really heard
I remember standing in front of the speakers and listening
and being like, what is this because some of the
songs I actually didn't know, but it was like a
It was like one of the first strong memories I
have in my life of like it felt like I
was drinking lightning. It was just like, oh my gosh,
this feeling and that sort of began my my, I

(08:37):
would say more a mature version of being interested in music,
but it was like I want to participate in it.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
You might have said how old we early teens, okay.

Speaker 5 (08:49):
And I think that day was kind of the first
day of the rest of my life in some ways,
because I was like, oh, I don't want to just
listen to this, I want to know how to be
involved in it. And so I was playing drum set.
We moved to Knoxville when I was in high school,
and the last two years of my high school were
at Farragut in Knoxville, and uh, you know, I started
playing with people that went to school and they'd come
over and bring the guitars and amps, and that was

(09:10):
totally new to me. I remember playing Alive by Pearl Jam.
I think it was like the first one I ever jammed.
Was somebody on it and I was like, this is
the best feeling I ever felt.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
What did you play? You played drum drums?

Speaker 5 (09:21):
Yeah, and so you know I played. I joined a
Christian band and we toured all around Knoxville and it
was pretty It was like a pretty grown up thing.
Looking back on it, like we had made a CD.
We toured it. We you know, it was like around
that area and got a little bit of a thing
going and and but it was weird because it didn't
scratch an itch. Like I thought drumming was my thing.

(09:41):
I came to MTSU steady drum set, did the whole thing,
thought this is what I'm gonna do. But it wasn't
until my freshman year when I started. My roommate had
a guitar and he let me play that. I started
writing songs.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
I don't know why.

Speaker 5 (09:52):
I have no clue why I started writing songs, but
when I picked up a guitar and my brain went, oh,
you write songs for this, not you learn blues licks.
You don't learn Dave Matthews. It was like, you play
song like you write songs. And so I just immediately
started doing that, and slowly but surely, when I started that,
I was like, oh, this is the thing, Like drums
is cool. But I realized that drums was just my
way to interact with music. But this was where I

(10:13):
was really wanting to end up. Was like right singing it,
but not singing it yet because my best friend is
still my close friend in the world game Mike Candras
Micah could sing, and so freshman sophomoreyear we'd write little
songs together and start kind of playing them out and
I'd play guitar and he would sing. And then I
wrote this one song that I played for him, I
think my sophomore year and he's like, man, he actually

(10:34):
sound pretty good singing this, and I was like, oh no, dude,
Like I'm a drummer. I was still like my goal
was like to move to Nashville and play drums for
DC Talk or something.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
It was just like I wanted to do that. Yeah,
come on, man, WHU why wouldn't you Jesus Freed come out?

Speaker 5 (10:48):
And I was like this is maybe a great Shirkord
of all time. And but that day he was like, listen,
I'm not I'm not singing that song. If you want
people to hear it, you got to sing it. And
it was it was like that was it. I was
like shoot. So then my whole brain shifted like, well,
I guess I got to sing now, and so I
just started. I'm so dysfunctional inways, but my logical next

(11:08):
step was then I just got to go play shows.
It wasn't like, oh I should learn how to sing
or I just was like, I guess you just go
do it. And so literally just started booking shows and
never sung for a human under your own name, under
my own name, and just started doing shows and it
was like, all right, were telling your teens at this point,
this is like nineteen twenty, Okay, so it's like kind
of back half of college. And then that was the

(11:29):
beginning that I moved to Nashville and worked for got
named Ed Cash for a hot minute, and then Ed
and I made a bunch of records together that was
kind of off to the races, but really random beginning
because it was never I never knew what I was doing.
It's just doors kept opening that kept making more sense,
and God was sort of stringing me along. They're in
really cool ways to get me to where I am now,
which really is what I love doing.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, So, going back to when you were listening with
your friend, Yeah, what do you think it was?

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Do you think it was.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
The speakers, like something sounded different, like it sounded better,
like it was more.

Speaker 5 (12:05):
I do think that's a piece of it. I think
there was something about interacting it with it. For the
first time where I was focused on it, like I
was standing in front of hystereo like like you know,
I was just standing there, and I think the volume mattered.
I think, you know, it's just something about my brain
was at a point where it was like I'm ready
to interact with this in a different way than just
sort of like it's on the background. And it's fun
because we always had music on the background, but this

(12:27):
was the first time, and I think I didn't know
those songs well too, so it was just like what
is this?

Speaker 1 (12:31):
But also you're talking about I think you mentioned Boston.
You're talking about records that sound unbelievable.

Speaker 5 (12:37):
Unbelievable and specific parts, and I mean just it was great.
Oh Dustin the Wind was on that. Yeah, see, And
it was just songs that I was like, And again
i'd heard great so my dad loves great music, so
I knew great music. So it wasn't that I was
like what is this, But it was just like something
about that moment. It's like everything was felt so new
and yeah, turbo charged. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I

(13:02):
think enough people don't. I don't think enough people listen
to music in that way.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, Yeah, we're definitely losing it, that's for sure.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
We used to I think, as humans, we used to
listen to music, great stereos.

Speaker 5 (13:16):
Yeah yeah, And I think in a way, you know,
I listened to the Wonder what was it called the
Stevie Wonder podcast that Barack and his family were part of.
I forget that, Oh, the Wonder of Stevie, Okay, And
they interview Michelle Obama and she says, people don't understand
that when you used to buy a record, it was

(13:36):
a every sense other than like taste was involved, because
it would have a smell, you would you would put
it in and sit down, open it, read it, listen,
look at it, feel it. She's like, so it was
it was all all but one of your senses were engaged.
And so it wasn't just listening to music. It was
experiencing music, you know. And I think that really matters.

(14:00):
She know it does, and so I think in some
ways that was a little bit of what happened that day.
But it was it was cataclysmic.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
I mean, it was change.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
We've definitely lost that with streaming and listening through bluetooth
and all this stuff that gets compressed and it doesn't
sound quite right. Yeah, as a music nerd, you know that.
But you don't have to be a nerd to hear it.
Yeah you don't at all, don't. Yeah, it's true, and
it's a good challenge for those listening. Go by Dave

(14:26):
Barnes Vinyl or something and put headphones on them on
the floor.

Speaker 5 (14:30):
Yeah, it's crazy, it is. It's really different. It's funny
because it's the same thing. I mean, it's like whether
it's on your car on a run. But yeah, it's
when you really choose to engage it. It's crazy how
different it feels.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
So you're a drummer and that that was the idea.
You were going to come here, you were going to
play drums.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah. Arguably though Jesus Freak wasn't their best record. Oh
whoa hot take? I think it's supernatural. You like supernatural? Yeah,
I can't go with you there, but I love you
can't Maybe I need to go back.

Speaker 5 (14:58):
Well, I mean they're both for me. Jesus Freak was like,
what is this? I still I listened to that record
with my kids the other day.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
What was speaking of that? That stuff? What was influencing
you at the time, even even when you were thinking
I'm just I want to be a drummer.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Man. I wore out the Spin Doctor first record. Oh.

Speaker 5 (15:18):
I got to meet Aaron Comas last year and it
was a massive moment for me. Yeah, because we played
a which record was that? What was that Pocket Flow
of Kryptnight? Okay, it's such a good record. That is
a record I will I will dial on that hill.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
I was talking to somebody about the Spin Doctors not
too long ago, and I was They were like, what
songs do they have?

Speaker 2 (15:36):
I'm like, are you kidding? Go listen? Yeah, well that
that record.

Speaker 5 (15:40):
There's a lot of records like this, but this one,
this one is on this list for me of records
that if you aren't paying attention to you're like, yeah,
it's like kind of fun, little bit of cheesy pop.
But if you if you get a guitar and I
dare you to learn those guitar parts, and you will
go wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
Wait what is he doing? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (15:58):
Or the drumming is insane, but it's it's really much
more deep than you feel, which I think is a
little bit of the of the genius. Not just that band,
but especially that record is because first listen, like.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
Oh, it's just fun on the phone booth on the cover.

Speaker 5 (16:11):
But it's it's deeply, deeply musical, so that and I mean,
you know, it was a lot of pearl jam this
So for me this would have been like ninety four,
ninety three, ninety four, and so it was a lot
of that kind of the beginnings of grunge. Eventually I
got into like, you know, super Unknown, which for a
drummer is a really fun record. There's so much odd
time stuff, so much Matt Cameron is just a monster.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
I still love that, right, Oh, it's incredible. It's insane.

Speaker 5 (16:37):
Yes, songwriting wise, that's you know, this is weird, and
we don't have to go off on this tangent, but
I really do. Like if you look at the lineage
of the Beatles, to me, Paul McCartney has a pretty
well worn path of people that you can see sort
of followed in his wake in beautiful ways, be it
Yellow or Jellyfish or whatever. Right, a lot of bands
that really took that mantle and really did it well,

(16:58):
and tons of pop bands whatever.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Lenin.

Speaker 5 (17:02):
To me, it's harder to do that with because his
is so awesomely weird.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
The songs he wrote.

Speaker 5 (17:07):
Like it's not as easy to but to me, to me,
super Unknown actually does that in some ways, these kind
of corprogression. You're like, that should never work, and Chris
Cornell is like, not only will it work, it's going
to be a hit. And that, to me is my opinion.
John's great legacy to the music world has taken songs.
You're like, I will give you every chord that's in
this song, and I will a million dollars says I

(17:29):
could leave you in here for a year and you'll
never be able to put these chords together in a
way that's memorable. And Lenin's like, oh, well, how about this,
And you're like, that's what he can do, right, And
I think super unknowns.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
Got a little bit of that. You're like, why does
this work so well? It works so well?

Speaker 5 (17:43):
You know the bin or not the bens, but okay,
computers like that for me where you're like, how is
this music this good and so weird, so weird and complicated,
so complicated, like chords that do not have anything to
do with each other? Yeah, nothing, and it's oh they
can though, watch me wake them work.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
We were in a band one time when we had
a guitar player with us for a short time that
it's like, well, you can't play major and minor chords together,
but you can't write a song like that. You can't
go from this to the oh yeah yeah, but you
can just give them a Beatles record.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
And also, I mean like it was like there's not
a rule book. Yeah, dude, Yeah, Like I get it.
I get what you're saying.

Speaker 5 (18:20):
Well, you do, like you think about Norwegian Wood or
Penny Lane and you're like, you have the same chord
major and minor and the same so I mean Norwegian
Wood starts and I think it's E major and then
the chorus is em yeah, like that's some flexing. Man.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, I'm so glad that you were into grunge.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
I don't know why that.

Speaker 5 (18:40):
Well, you know, it's funny. We moved in Knoxville. The
guys that I that I carpooled with the school because
I would not have been left to my own devices.
I'm much too poppy for that. But they were they
were like they looked like a Nirvana video, like they
were wholly invested, long hair vans. Wonderful guys. Because at
first I was super intimidated. I was like, man, these
guys kind of scare me, but they were awesome. But

(19:00):
every morning it was Tool nirvana. I mean, it was
getting in the cars like the Devil's going to manifest
himself in these back seats, which he probably did in
the weekends, but only. But but you know, it's funny.
I was like, God, tools kind of awesome, you know
what I mean. It was like and I think for
me it was a real That was a real. That
was a gift to me because I think it got
me out of my sort of like in.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
The you know, are are there any metal bands nowadays
that you like?

Speaker 5 (19:27):
I don't keep up with it, but I promise you
I know myself and if you played me five of them,
I'd probably like them.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (19:33):
That was but that was a good season for me
because I think it really opened my eyes to like, oh,
there's really because you know, man, you just you know,
especially in that day and age, it would be like
these are bad people making bad music, and it was like, okay,
you know, and my parents weren't like that, by the way,
I want to say, like they were not those people
at all, Like they weren't like the that's the Devil's music.
But I think I just was. I was like, oh,

(19:55):
it just kind of scares me. And to be in
the car eve in one of those guys and be like, God,
that song is good, you know, I get that. I'd
by myself third period, like walking around singing.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
I was like, gosh, that's so hooky.

Speaker 5 (20:04):
Oh yeah, and then I'd be like, hey, will you
play that uh play that Nirvana tune again next morning?

Speaker 2 (20:08):
You know.

Speaker 5 (20:09):
So it was good for me to kind of go, oh,
this is like just good music, you know something.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
It's crazy, but I mean, Alon Chain's all this stuff.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
I was like, dude, I was the same way like
my drummer. I was in a band when I was
thirteen fourteen, and my drummer would cart me around he
was nineteen, yeah, and so he'd come pick me up
and we were listening to like Pantera, Metallica, h yeah,
Hank Williams Junior in the same day, like just like
popping in tapes and it was school in me.

Speaker 5 (20:36):
Dude, Well, it's really fun I mean, Pearl Jam, It's
it's funny, like all those bands, Neirvana.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
I did the really deep dive on them bout a.

Speaker 5 (20:42):
Year ago and listen to records and I hadn't in
a long time, and it was a tutorial.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 5 (20:47):
And you know what you realize when you do that,
in my opinion, is you see, especially with Nevermind, it
really is a pop masterpiece. A lot of people would
be like, well, it's grunge or whatever. I'm like, if
you played on guitar, it's some of the most melodic,
well written songs ever. It's just the way they produced it,
you know, had all this fuzz and distortion, so it
sort of fools you into thinking it's these other kind

(21:08):
of songs. But on guitar, they were really these like
beautiful pop songs, you know. And he and then you
read quotes about him how one of the pedigrees for
them was to sound like the Beatles, and how butch
Big was like, we're stripping everything down to where it's
only hooks on every instrument, and you realize like.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
Ah aha aha.

Speaker 5 (21:25):
But at the time it felt like, whoa these pissed
off young teens.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah, well it was hooks, and it was hooks with passion.

Speaker 5 (21:32):
Oh that's that's beautifully said. That's a great way to.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
Send That's why my kids love Nirvana. It's just gonna
last forever.

Speaker 5 (21:40):
It's that's so good. It's I mean, I listened to
my kids and it was really fun to sort of
be like, let me take this. And then again I
just did this crazy because I was so fascinated with
like because again, when they were out, I was kind
of like, this feels a little aful, you know, And
Kurt and his whole thing was kind of intimidating and dark,
and I was like, b it's great, but that was
all that stuff was sort of in the background.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
But what's great, and we can get off of this tangent.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
But I love this.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
So what's great about Kurt Cobain was that his struggle
was just out there, like he didn't care. It was
out there. Yeah, And so the passion and the music
and the hooks, yes, but also you got to see
him like kind of in real time, in real life.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah. I wonder what it would have.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
Been like if like social media had been a thing
when at his highest, you know, like yeah, when they
were when never mind hit and they were just exploding. Yeah,
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (22:39):
He was crazy about that last story about this. I
thought this was so fascinating, you know, they were popping
off two ninety three, ninety four that kind of world.
The world was still at a place where they would
show up. When Nevermind came out, it was it was
it got so successful so quickly that the label sold
out of records because they only got like three hundred

(23:00):
thousand printed or something, so they sold out, and they
were like and then you know, Dave Girl talks about
how they would get to venues and the venue would
have sold out, but they would be three times as
many people in the line that could fit in the venue,
and Nirvana would they like they were learning this real time,
so they show it and be like, oh my god,
looks like it's working. And so they were almost like
they were finding out as much as you and I

(23:22):
would have been found Like it was just that's where
the world was, that their fame was so far ahead
of them that they were learning at the same time
their fans were how well it was working. And so,
you know, the guy said that they had this budget
for set aside to promote it, and they never used
it because they didn't need to because it just exploded
that quickly. But those kind of things are so funny

(23:44):
to think about because you can imagine being in a
van and you really could have sold out probably you know,
the local arena, but you're playing at like Exit in
because you booked it six months ago and they thought,
let's just get we want to get to the second record,
and that's it's exploding. Wow, Like they couldn't catch up
to it, you know. Yeah, there was some crazy stat
where they were selling I'm gonna get it wrong, but

(24:05):
like hundreds of thousands a week you know, for a while. Yeah,
and you're just like, that's just crazy to think about.
That's music.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
It's insane.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
I mean I could talk about that all day that seriously,
because my kids are so into it.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
We listen to Nevermind literally all the time. Yeah, we
have the CD in the car and they pop it in. Yeah,
and they're learning guitar. That's a great record.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
My kids are ten and thirteen, so they're playing all
the Nirvana songs.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (24:36):
That was like one of my first little Yeah, I
got that one in the bag and real cool.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Me too, me too? Were your family so you got
into singing? But I'm curious, like, was your family musical?

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Did you have people?

Speaker 3 (24:50):
No?

Speaker 6 (24:51):
No?

Speaker 2 (24:51):
I mean, so where did that come from? I don't know, God,
I don't know. Uh, nobody can sing in your friend.
I mean they can.

Speaker 5 (24:57):
They can all sing, and they just don't yeah that. Yeah,
nobody's like trying to rock the mic or anything. But
my dad, Well, the funny one Dad is he kind
of showed me how to play both guitar and drums
because he was kind of like he knew enough on
both to kind of be dangerous. And so, you know,
I think if if he had wanted to, he probably
could have done it to I'm not saying at a

(25:17):
professional level, but I mean like he can, he can
get around on it, and the same with drums. And
so it was funny because I sort of forget that
sometimes how I started. But he was one of those like,
all right, here's how Like we were playing Credence clear
Water songs on guitar. You know, it's kind of like, oh,
that can kind of keep up with this, you know,
but none of them in any kind of like you know,
grown up professional capacity.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
Okay, so you grabbed a guitar and you started writing.
You said you don't know why, but that's not acceptable.
You got to give us a why.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
It's fail. That's not an acceptable answer. I don't.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
I mean, you must have had some kind of push, like,
were you listening to something or somebody?

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Again?

Speaker 5 (25:54):
I think I just so badly wanted to interact with music.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Was it before your buddy said you have a good voice?

Speaker 3 (26:00):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah, way? I mean it was like a couple of years.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Okay, So you had that in your mind and you're like, well,
I can sing, so maybe I can write.

Speaker 4 (26:06):
No.

Speaker 5 (26:06):
I think no, because I wrote when I couldn't sing, Okay,
Like I would just kind of quietly in my dorm
room when my roommate was gone, because he'd let me
use guitar, and I'd write these little tunes very sheepishly,
you know, kind of like okay, it's that rhyme. And
then i'd show them to mic and my buddy and
he'd go oh and then he'd sing it. I'd be like,
oh that sounds good, okay, like you sing good, you know.
And and then you know again he heard me sophomore

(26:30):
year I played. I was like, hey, sing this one,
and he's like, oh, no, you should sing that, and
I was like, no, I don't sing. He's like, you
sound cool. I was like for real, And then it
was like, oh I should rethink about this then. And
then because you know, I mean like, for instance, if
you go you know, God bless you might get sing
that way. But then if you sing it God bless them,
you know, all of a sudden there's intent and you

(26:50):
have a voice. Yeah, And I think that was when
I went, oh, should I kind of lean into this
and see what happens when I like try to sing
and like really sing it and not like communicate something.
And it was like, oh, yeah, there's because I'd record
myself on all tapes in my bedroom and I'd be like, oh,
it does sound.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Kind of cool, you know, like maybe I do have
something here.

Speaker 5 (27:07):
Yeah, and so and then, you know, in a monumental
moment for me, when I was in MTSU, I think
it was my junior year. Around that same time, I
had a class that that canceled last minute, so I
was on campus. I didn't want to leave, and I
went to the mass Calm Library and they had all
of these Performing Songwriters, which is still my favorite magazine
of all time. It's not in print anymore, and and

(27:27):
I was like, because I was just killing times before
cell phones or anything, so I'm like just kind of
walking around the Mass Colm building thing and I don't
want to go back to my apartment or to say,
or so walked to the mask com I was looking.
I was like, oh, what's this magazine? And I pulled
it down and literally it was like I opened it
and it because you know, I think I think one
of the first ones I read was maybe Paul Simon
or Billy Joel. But you know, I'm writing songs at

(27:48):
this point, kind of recreationally, and I'm reading these interviews
with John Mellencamp, Paul Simon, and Bruce Hornton and They're like,
you know what, I'm writing songs. I find myself wandering
in the yard and I know what I got there.
And I was like, oh my gosh, this is what
I do. And so I was just burning. So I'm
skipping the class after the hour because I just had
my nose deep in these magazines of like, wait, this

(28:09):
is a thing, like people feel like this because I
feel like this. And that was really the beginning of like,
oh my gosh, like song being a songwriter is a thing,
like you have a disposition the way you feel and
move in the world and take the world in and
through these pages. It was this community of people I
found that was like, oh my gosh, this because I didn't,

(28:30):
you know, I thought I'm just.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Kind of weird. And I was like, no, no, man, this
is like you're a songwriter. And I was like, oh
my gosh, this is like and then it was like, oh, well,
then that's what I want to do. That's what I'm
thinking about now.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
And you were like, were you immersed in like the
craft of it, like did you want to be an
artist or did you want to be a songwriter?

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Did you know yet? I didn't.

Speaker 5 (28:51):
That's a great way to put that. I didn't know yet.
I thought I thought I wanted to be a songwriter
because I didn't sing, okay, And then the minute I
said and you know, I was writing.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
That's so funny.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
I always I'm so fascinated by songwriters who can't sing.
They're not good singers, but they write amazing songs.

Speaker 5 (29:06):
Crazy, just because it doesn't take a good singer to
sing a good melody. That's weird to get that's a
weird that's a gift. I think that's a real gift
from God because it means you can still accomplish it
without necessarily having them whatever. But but yeah, so for
me at the time, I was writing, like I was
listening to a lot of like skip youing kind of stuff,
you know, like Brian Early, Brian White, and like country

(29:27):
stuff that was like country was really I really loved
country back then I was in college.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
I didn't really list it for them, but that was
kind of like suns and nineties country.

Speaker 5 (29:35):
Yeah, kind of like late uh yeah yeah, like kind
of late nineties country. And so I would see like, oh,
this guy wrote that song, not the artist, and then
that was another like oh my god, Okay, so maybe
I can write songs for people because I don't sing,
but I was writing kind of like nice, little vanilla
stale songs. But the minute I was like, oh, I'm
going to sing these as myself, it was like I

(29:55):
gotta I gotta amp that up.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
It's got to have a little more meat on the
bones and be a little less me, you know.

Speaker 5 (30:00):
And so then it was interesting because I started writing
much more artistic songs, like what's a different way to
say that, I mean for yourself, for myself, And so
really there was a pretty massive stop and start between
like all little frilly songs. Got to listen to the country,
be like, oh, I think I can write a little
country thing, and it looks like this. But the minute
it was like, oh no, no, this is mean my name,
like I'm going to go play this as Dave Barnes

(30:21):
and I was like, oh, it's then I started leaving
and leaning too like Bonnie Rate, Stevie Wonder, like Mark Cohne,
things that I was like, Oh, these are artists, you know.
This is not sort of made for the mainstream. This
is for people who are like trying to be like, hey,
this is how I feel about something, you know, yes,
And that was suddenly really fun because I was like, oh, man,
I can like put my stamp on this.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
So when you started doing that and it started becoming
like your job to be an artist, yeah, you were
still thinking about writing songs for other people.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
No, it stopped immediately really. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (30:53):
That was when when I sort of was like, oh,
I'm going to play these out. It was like everything
I write is for me now.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Okay. So then.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
How did you get into publishing them? Because you Okay,
so when you get a deal, a lot of times
you get a pub deal along with it, right, yeah,
So how were other artists hearing your songs because you
write for other people?

Speaker 6 (31:15):
Huh?

Speaker 5 (31:16):
Well, early days it was funny and I love I
really miss these days because it was such an innocence
to it. Because when I moved to Nashville and I
made this EP called three and four, and I toured
that for a couple of years, which you want to
have a real good time, try touring a five song
EP for two years. It was like you might have
heard these last time we're gonna play Yeah, And I
didn't even play the Holy EP.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
That was funny.

Speaker 5 (31:37):
So I was writing a lot and that was kind
of like filling the set out more than these new songs.
But when I got here, you know, I started to
do the thing, and thanks to things like Napster and
Lime Wire, like my you know, it just sort of
took off. It was like all of a sudden, I'd
showed up to place I'd never been and there'd be
three hundred people there, you know, five hundred people there,
And so that way, artists started hearing about me. So

(32:00):
every now and then, you know, somebody'd be coming through
Nashville and I'd get an email and it'd be some
major label artists or something, and they'd be like, hey, man,
I love your music. I've got like a couple of days,
could we write a song together? And this is before
I knew that was like a thing. So I'd be
like sure, Like I don't know what that means. So yeah,
I just kind of have my guitar and either they'd
be like, hey, meet me at the studio.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
My So you didn't have like a manager or a
publisher going let's schedule these rights.

Speaker 5 (32:22):
Yeah, not at all, and so people just like rock
up to my apartment or I'd go to some place
and and I mean it was it was so wonderfully
simple because I was like, you.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Want to write something? Yeah, cool, I love that, you know. Uh.

Speaker 5 (32:39):
Or they'd go hey, I had this idea and you'd
write it and I'd leave thinking that was fun. But
then like I was getting these cuts and it was like.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Oh, this is cool.

Speaker 5 (32:45):
I'm on this record. Look all right, you know. But
I was so focused on my own thing. It was like,
that's all fine, but this is what I'm really trying
to do. And then when God gave me you happened
with Blake, you know, it happened this perfect sort of
coming together moment in my life. Because we had had
our first kid, I was really ready to give the
road to break. I wanted to be a dad so
bad and be home and participate in like more of

(33:07):
a home life with my wife and everything. And so
when Blake heard it and it did what it did,
suddenly people in Nashville were much more kind of like hey,
because you know, I've been here my whole career, so
I had tons of friends, you know, I knew publishers,
and but they were always like, oh, he's doing his thing.
And then it was suddenly like, well, hold on, are

(33:27):
you doing country music? And I was like I don't know,
and They're like, we want to write more country music
and I was like, you know, sure, why not?

Speaker 2 (33:34):
You know.

Speaker 5 (33:35):
So then that's when pub deal Like I started shopping
pub deals because people were like, hey, you know, we'd
love to have you on, have you write with us.
And because when you write a song by yourself that
does like that, you can imagine a lot of people
are suddenly like, well I hello, then mister Buns, you know,
and so yeah, so I ended up like sign up

(33:55):
with BMG and then and then that's really where the
professional songwriter things started, because it's like, Okay, I've I've
had cuts and almost had a couple of singles, but
just totally out of weird happenstance kind of for some
like you know, I'm out there shop of my thing
in the streets.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (34:11):
And then now it was it was like, Okay, now
we're gonna like put you with artists and try to
get you songs recorded. And you know, I want that
to happen too, because I've seen the money you can
make from those kinds of things. And I was saying, like, man,
that keeps me off having to quite hit the road
as hard as I was. And so then that sort
of began begin sort of professional songwriting part of my career, yeah,
or added to it.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
One thing I do want to discuss with you is comedy, yeah,
but I want to tie it together with music.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
Yeah, I you're really funny. Well, first of all, it
would be bad if you weren't and you were like,
I'm a I'm a comelean. When did that start for you?
First of all? Was that as young as music? Were
you interested in that? And did you just find yourself

(34:59):
making people laugh?

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Or were you not to get too like heady or existential?
Were you covering up for something else? Trying to be
funny for other people? Yeah, and then where does that
does it inform your songwriting?

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Add any more questions.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
I think I can do this, Actually, I yeah.

Speaker 5 (35:20):
I think I've kind of always been funny a little bit,
you know, and then probably like early teenage years. Uh,
this is so funny. This is such an incriminating story.
But like you know, I wasn't exactly always a hit
with the ladies. That's really hard.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
Not always, but now you are, well, you got to
ask the ladies. That's a ladies question. We can pull
the ladies. We'll do that. Don't actually that I'm not
gonna want to know what they say. We're really don't
want to know what I say.

Speaker 5 (35:49):
But so I remember going to this youth group retreat
and again, like my friends would have said, like Dave's funny,
but not like capital that funny, Like he's funny, he's funny,
day's funny. He's an interesting guy, normal funny.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
He's normal, he's normal.

Speaker 5 (36:03):
Funny, approachable, funny. But we went on this retreat and
they were doing a skit and the skit was this
dating game kind of thing that was on TV at
the time, and they were like, man, we need a host,
and I was like I'll do it, and we improved
the whole skit, and I remember looking out at one

(36:26):
point and all of the pretty girls were laughing, and
I was like, this is some interesting This.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Isn't derail or no, no, no.

Speaker 5 (36:35):
That was when like the more thunder got summoned, and
and it was just like, oh that this is an
interesting way to get people to like you or to
And I don't think it was some deep seated like
I don't like myself. It was just like, whoa, that
is effective, man, Like look at this.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
You know.

Speaker 5 (36:52):
And so I think from then on it was a
little bit of like, oh, maybe I'm like a little
funnier than maybe some people are. And I would do
skits and do that, and all through college I was
doing that kind of stuff in front of people. And
so the way it's funny that you asked the way
you did, because the way it ties into music is
the only reason I was as confident to go play
shows when I didn't know how to sing was I
was just so confident being in front of people because

(37:13):
I knew I could make them laugh. And so basically,
if you had been to my shows back then, the
way that they rolled was a ton of stories, ton
of stories song. I was terrified to sing a ton
of stories, ton of stories, terrifying three minutes of a song,
story story, because the stories would.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Calm me down. Interesting. And then he'd be like, all right,
freaking I gotta sing.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
And see, I feel like I'd be the opposite, like
I'm more comfortable at singing the song, yeah, and if
I have to tell a funny story, yeah, I'm in
my head.

Speaker 5 (37:36):
The whole No, I'm very much the opposite still to
this day in some ways. And so for me, it
was like that was the thing that calmed me down.
And so the shows were kind of almost like a
it was just kind of a free for all, and
so people really enjoyed coming because they'd hear some songs, whatever,
but they'd also see me just kind of like being
an idiot and telling stupid stories, and so it really

(37:57):
helped me get comfortable doing it, you know. And and
so you know, they don't in my brain, they don't
meet like I'm not one of those guys that's trying
to write Adam Sandler songs because I don't think i'd
actually do it very well. But they absolutely participate together
in the live setting for me.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Okay, it's like stage banter from yeah exactly during the music.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
But did you actually have a comedy bit?

Speaker 2 (38:23):
I've done stand up shows, yeah, you have probably twenty
or thirty.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Really would you keep doing that? Is that something you like?

Speaker 5 (38:30):
I really like it. It needs more attention than I
give it, but I love doing it. It's every now
and then somebody will hire me to come to a
show and it's, oh my gosh, it's fun.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
It's so much fun.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Would you do like a would you film one?

Speaker 2 (38:46):
We did? You did? You can actually rent it on me?

Speaker 1 (38:49):
I knew that I did all my research was No.

Speaker 5 (38:51):
It's really obscure. We did a city winery show gosh, man,
it's been probably seven years ago, oh wow, and recorded
it and it was really great. It was a good show.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
And what's the response, Like, do you have like comedy
fans that don't think? So you don't think something?

Speaker 2 (39:05):
You know?

Speaker 5 (39:05):
You know? It's tricky about that not to get like
all esoteric. But I think the thing that's tricky about
humor when you're a musician is like it's not like
people take it for granted because that sounds really sad.
But I think because it's juxtaposed to something else. It
doesn't sort of just stand and I don't want it to.
I don't want people to think I'm a comedian but

(39:25):
like it I'm not. I mean, I know they Why
don't you want them to think that? Because I work
too hard at songwriting and sing Why can't you do both?

Speaker 2 (39:33):
I think people I.

Speaker 5 (39:34):
Don't know if people understand that. I really don't why.
I think we need to know what something is to
really be able to ingest it.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
A lot of times?

Speaker 1 (39:40):
What about like the Jared Leto's and I mean, you know,
I would continue that argument. It's like the it's like
the Steve Martin thing. You know, do be so good
they can't ignore you.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Well, that's but.

Speaker 5 (39:53):
You can make a lot of examples for a funny
person that writes serious music. I think you can make
a lot of examples for either an actor that does
music or Adam Sandler does funny music. But it's it's
tricky when you get into like, oh, he's really funny,
and then he has really I mean, you have Todd

(40:13):
Snyder and those kind of guys who are incredible at it,
but they're not comedians. They're not doing stand up shows
on their own really, So it's a it's a weird
it's a weird space time continuing thing.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Well, there's that, there's that like people comedians and musicians
talk about it all the time. Yeah, how as a
musician you wish you could be a comedian and comedians
want to be a musician's And I'm still pretty I
haven't gone down that road enough to like I say,
I'm fascinated with that, but I haven't really looked at
looked at it too hard. What do you think that is?

(40:45):
What's the connection between comedy and music?

Speaker 2 (40:47):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (40:48):
It's all performing, it's all expression.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
I mean it's a because they seem really they seem
really opposite and really close together.

Speaker 5 (41:00):
They elicit extreme responses, I think, which is really really addictive. Yeah,
Like when you can stand on stage and see people
respond to either music or comedy, it's like that's a
weird power.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
Do you know what you want to know why I
want to be a comedian because you don't have to
take anything with.

Speaker 5 (41:15):
Bro, those shows you don't understand, like rolling up when
all you've got, when you don't have anything.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
You have your clothes on, like you.

Speaker 5 (41:24):
Walk out, and you're like, they're like sound checking, like, hey,
what's up everybody, Cleveland, How y'all feel cool?

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Like cool? You walk back? I mean it's it's five
hours still showtime.

Speaker 5 (41:31):
Oh my god, it's a shoke. Yeah, literally, like, it's
really fun. I want to do it again. I just
got to figure out, you know, you have to build
these sets, which is pretty ambitious and overwhelming. Although I
did do it tour w I did both, so I
did it too. Actually did hear at the Rhymen where
I did forty five minutes of music hard stop, fifteen minutes,

(41:53):
forty five minutes of stamp.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
Oh you can do a variety show. Well, that's kind
of what it was.

Speaker 5 (41:57):
And then I did fifteen more minutes of like I
did like guy gave another song, and then that was
a night.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
It was really fun.

Speaker 5 (42:03):
It was exhausting, I'm sure, man, you talk about like
your brain just like try alting in your Yeah, it was.
It was really fun.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Though, a lot of planning, yeah, a lot of planning.
I would like to see that. Are you gonna do
it again?

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Someday? I think someday this will all make sense. Oh
you are good. You should have a podcast. I'm trying, man,
this is episode sixty five.

Speaker 5 (42:26):
Wow, I'm so glad I wasn't sixty six. I don't
read that in my life. I don't want me.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
I'm not sure who sixty six is gonna be to it.
Why it's six sixty six not sixty I know.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
But we're halfway there, more than halfway.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
There, more than halfway there. All right, I'll do what
I can.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
Thank you, just sixty six point only that my life.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Oh my gosh, someday this all will make sense. Is
a really long song title?

Speaker 2 (42:55):
It is. I love a long song title. You do?
Oh yeah, tell us about that? Why do you love songs?
Because I kind of came up like if you if
you went to my I want to annoy the graphic designers. Yeah, yeah,
that's it.

Speaker 5 (43:08):
When I was starting, like really really really getting into
writing my own songs, I was listening to just copious
amounts of folk, so it would be like Jonathan Brook
or John gorka gun named Bibo, Norman, David Wilcox, a
lot of daddad and I just loved anything.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
Tell our listeners what that means.

Speaker 5 (43:26):
You just want to get down on some acoustic guitar work?
Just get in a dagon.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
I need to show that to my sons. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (43:32):
So it's tuned D A D G A D and
it's just kind of like a lot of really great
folk artists use that tuning. It's I think it's an
Irish tuning kind of comes from that world. So it
feels very kind of folk and you know, big and open.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
It feels like it's easy to play.

Speaker 5 (43:47):
It's really easy to play. It's easier to play I
should say, really good people who play it. It's it
can be really tough. But so for me that you know,
that's that folk world where like everything's got like, you know,
a ton of words, and it's really big words. And
so I like when I see the back of a
CD or an album and I'm like, ooh, long title, man.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
That's a song of will us do first?

Speaker 5 (44:07):
Really, just because it's probably going to be more lyrically substantial,
you know, so that I'm always kind of the more
drawn to those songs, right, So I'm like, I'm way
down with that.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
As a podcaster, this is a really it's a really
annoyance listen.

Speaker 5 (44:22):
I ask you to carry a burden, and I appreciate
that you do.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
I'm being a jerk. It's a great song. I love
the song, I really really love the song. Why don't
we go ahead and listen to the work tape and
then well we'll kind of go through what it all means.
This episode of work Tapes is brought to you by
east Side Music Supply. East Side Music Supply is a
music shop in Nashville, Tennessee. It's my go to spot
for all things gear related, whether it's guitars, bass guitars.

(44:50):
If I need work on my gear, if I need
to buy a pedal that's really cool and awesome, that's
super unique. They've got that kind of stuff there. They've
got cool merch audio gear, all the stuff. You're dealing with,
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That cares about your tone, They care about your experience.
Go to Eastside Music Supply dot com. If you're not

(45:11):
local to Nashville. They will hook you up. Tell them
when you go that Brandon from work Tape sent you.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Tracks in the trapway. Then he lives well, she Rosie.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
Halfway too early, A surgeons the like me. There's a
god then she pres too. She prees from wady leave.

Speaker 7 (46:01):
To the boys out of school, I'll suddenly listen to this.

Speaker 8 (46:10):
Tid to.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Life, said bad sense.

Speaker 9 (46:18):
So Day he swears this was all basic.

Speaker 6 (46:39):
Steamful of Saint Thad and Daddy used to body back
and when all his beliefs strong as his scheme.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
And she keeps so.

Speaker 8 (46:59):
Three and through the bad way, she.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Keeps saying boys out of school or suddenly to up.

Speaker 9 (47:13):
Hard to be with him fasts. So Day swears this
one of mats of the satin, something that's broken.

Speaker 8 (47:37):
She didn't know could be. Now she lives with her
decision that she did me.

Speaker 7 (48:05):
Way of good bye is a patient a candle. Way
of good bye is a patient a candle. But wad
of goodbye, Supicion is again waiting goodbye Supicion again as

(48:32):
much as.

Speaker 4 (48:32):
Your trip but.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
Okay, So for the work tape, I want to say,
without sounding like a jerk again, that I actually like
the work tape better?

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Do you really? Yeah? Oh? I love hearing that I
really did.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
I listened to it on the way here again and
I kind of a beat them and I was like,
oh man, but I'm kind of a sucker for work tapes.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
And I think that it would be bad if I
didn't like I don't. I don't really said this much
a guy Haye word and this is a dumb This
is such a dumb idea.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
No, I think I liked it because, don't get me wrong,
Like the the production version is amazing. I told you
that the strings are insane, are beautiful, and they bring
out a different quality in the song and make it
a different song. But the acoustic guitar stuff you did,

(49:41):
the doubling up the vocal and the work tape, even
some of the harmonies are a little bit different, or
at least maybe the production kind.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Of buries them sting there.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
And so you can kind of hear all of these things,
and then you do a guitar thing at the end
that you don't do on the other one, and and
it's like, oh, that's so interesting. Yeah, and maybe it's
because of a be it Yeah, I don't know. Yeah,
but tell us about the song, Yeah, what is it
like painting us a picture of like when you had

(50:14):
the idea, did you co write it? If so, who
wasn't and what was going on.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
In the room.

Speaker 5 (50:21):
So that's this you're gonna wish you had an asset
because it has this really long explanation.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
But I'll try to so long title, so I expect
nothing less so appropriate he of it.

Speaker 5 (50:34):
So about in December of twenty twenty two, I was
cleaning my studio. My wife had given me Paul McCartney's
lyrics books Cuture, which he is. He's quoted as saying
the clothes still ever get to write an autobiography. Basically,
he splunked all of his properties across the world to
find artifacts and memorabilia and fun little trinkets. And while

(50:56):
he did that, he found like all these old lyrics
and stuff. And so it's a really cool couple of
books because it's pictures and that he found that he
didn't know he had. It's pictures of lyrics he didn't
know he had. But then with his songs, So each
each chapter, if you want to call it, that is
a song, the lyrics song, and then him talking about
the songs and sometimes some of the memorabilia that had
something to do with this song. Sitting in my studio cleaning,

(51:19):
it was actually New Year's Day because I was like,
we were sitting around the house, like I need to
do something, go crazy. So I went back there and started,
and I was like, I'm just gonna play because I
realized I hadn't done like a Beatles proper deep dive,
and so I just turned to one of my studio
speakers and was cleaning, just starting with record one, and
I kept finding myself stopping and going that's a cool
chord progression and like grabbing the guitar and going whoa

(51:39):
and like okay. And so after a while, I was like,
I need to like I need to like give this
some like grown up attention. And so I decided that
in twenty twenty three, is that true, or maybe it's
one year back, It doesn't matter, whatever year that was,
I was just gonna listen to Beatles. That's all I
did twenty twenty two for a whole year, A whole

(52:02):
year that's literally all listening to my kids and everything,
and it was I mean, there's just not words for
what I learned in that year.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
And still am.

Speaker 5 (52:10):
I still listen mostly to the Beatles still because I'm
writing my second record that's like this, But I decided
I'm just gonna listen to it, and then I'm going
to make a record inspired by this, by the what
I've learned. And so the record is called Feather Brain
Wealth Motel and it's what great title, thanks, it's what
that's what Someday this Wall makes Sense is on. And
so when I was writing these songs, I kind of

(52:33):
had archetypes in my brain, like, you know, like I
sort of had a board of Beatles songs I loved,
and like, what would it be like if I tried
to write my version of Let It Be? What would
it be like if I tried to write my version
of Blackbird or whatever? You know, songs I love? And
so Someday This Will Makes Sense was sort of informed
by that, but it was just kind of written in
that time. I did like the story part of it,

(52:55):
you know, I like kind of the eleanor Rigby thing,
which obviously that plays into the action of the album version,
but it was just like I just it was a
real story, not a real story. It was how I
imagined a real thing that had happened in the world,
and a friend of mine had gone through a really
hard thing, and so that was me just kind of
sessing it out so lyrically. It's just this kind of

(53:15):
like take on what had happened, and I'd written it
like I did with the you know that kind of
do do that arpeggiated thing, and I really liked it.
I thought it was really cool. But it didn't quite
It didn't quite fit in what I would have thought
the rest of the record Beatles tip of the Hat did.
It would have been a little too like Elliott Smithy
or something.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
It just felt like.

Speaker 5 (53:36):
And so, driving to I was working with Ben Shive
on a couple of things. He was playing on a
couple of parts of the record, and so I was driving.
I was like, man, what can we do to this
song and make it better? And I was like, what
if we just did it like eleanor Rigby? Like that's
obviously right in the middle of what I'm trying to do.
So I got there with him and I was like, hey,

(53:57):
instead of playing on top of this, what if we
scraped the whole thing and you just like write strings
over this with me? And he was like great, So
we did like an afternoon session. I got in the
car and I was listening to the roughs and it
just wasn't right. I was like, why is this was
a little too orchestrated, which was my fault, And so
I drove home that night, I was like, ah, this
may have been a bad idea, but we had another
day booked, and so driving the next morning, I listened

(54:19):
to eleanor Rigby really closely, and I realized the reason.
One of the reasons of a million reasons, but one
of the reasons it's such a genius song is it's
such digestible hooks everywhere, right, you can sing the string
part at every moment, you know what he's doing. The
story's obviously really compelling, and so when I got to Shives,
I was like, hey, I know what we're doing wrong.
We need to break this down to it's small, Like,

(54:40):
let's just sing string parts and that's the part every time,
and he was like great, and then it was like
off to the races. It was so fun that whole day.
We had a blast, came together exactly like I wanted,
and it really served a very specific purpose for me,
which was like I wanted to have something that kind
of felt like that, and then I had this song
that could do it. And but you know when you

(55:02):
juxtapose those to the demo and that they're really different,
and that's that song was as much a reason that
I did the year after we released it, we did
a deluxe edition with a bunch of the demos, and
that demo was almost the whole reason I did that
deluxe version because I was like, I just wanted people
to hear it because they're so different.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
I really love I really think, not just because of
the podcast, but I really think artists should do more
work tape releases.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
I was talking to Matt Words about that when he
was on because he sent me four songs to choose
from and I was like, dude, I can't choose. These
are great work tapes, yes, and you should put them
out for fans. Yeah, I would love I would love that,
I think too.

Speaker 5 (55:44):
I think one of the things that's great about work
tapes and I think you can see it in the
demo that I did. You really I think you feel
the heart behind it a little better most of the time.
It's not always a perfect vocal, and.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
That's kind of what it is, like there's a certain passion,
like a little sparkle in there that's like.

Speaker 5 (56:00):
But it also shows you how things can start here
and end here, yes, which fast. And I mean, obviously
I do this professionally, but it fascinates me, like I
love seeing the genesis to the ending of like, oh man.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
How did y'all?

Speaker 5 (56:14):
Oh, so y'all just ditch that whole part and write
a new part for this? Or you did this and
didn't do this, and so you know, I think for
that one, as much as maybe any song I've ever written,
the beginning in the end, we're just so different.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
We changed keys, mean everything.

Speaker 5 (56:26):
So h I didn't catch that, Yeah, because because Ben,
I mean, this is the stuff I geek so hard
about it being a musician. He's like, Hey, that key
is tough for string players. Can we drop it? And
I was like really, He's like yeah, it's like you
don't want to play in a couple of keys for
string players and you are on one of them. And
so we dropped it, which I'm glad we did because
it's easier to seeing. But you know, just little things

(56:48):
that you know. Matt Mangano one of my dear friends,
I call him Mango, but he's the bass player and
Zach brownband. Mango has always said he's like, the key
you write it in matters because I would move stuff around.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
It does.

Speaker 5 (57:01):
He played bass for me for years and years in
the read and I always think about that, because it's
like the resonance, the where your voices when you sing it.
And and so when Ben she said hey can we
drop it?

Speaker 2 (57:13):
I was coming.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
But also sometimes when you drop it or change the key,
the song becomes better or different, easier to sing, like
oh this is a better song now, yeah, because I'm able,
I'm not straining as hard whatever, Like the emotion gets
more like capsulated.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Yeah, no, was that right? Capsulated? Encapsulated? There you go.
That's a great word. You should have a podcast. Actually,
let's start that right now. Thank guys. Welcome to Dave Barnes.
Glad to have you. Dave Barnes. Work tapes, Working at tapes,
Working at tapes, that's your workout tapes.

Speaker 5 (57:52):
You can do it, you could do I remember running
when time too?

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Are you going to go my way?

Speaker 5 (57:57):
And I was like, this is exactly the tempo I
run to And it was a really weird moment. I
just kept hitting redo and I was like, oh, my gosh,
should I do this pattern? It's like the perfect see
that'd be mine?

Speaker 2 (58:06):
What does need to listen? More metal? When you my gosh.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
My favorite lyric in the song there's a God she
prays to but if she prays wrong.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
He will leave to Yeah, will he leave to? Will
he live? Yeah? That's there, it is. I'm just sent
and read it. It is my favorite lyric. Yeah, thanks,
Can you expand that? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (58:33):
What where did that come from? I think that that
it's kind of it's an obvious statement to me.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
But what is that?

Speaker 3 (58:46):
You know?

Speaker 5 (58:48):
I think relationships like moms and dads that split up
are just really tough.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
And I think I.

Speaker 5 (58:59):
I think a lot of about kids in those scenarios.
You know, they're kids and kids figured out and they're okay.
But yeah, I just try to think about this girl
that was walking through that and going, man, that's got
to be so much to figure out, you know, especially
when it's kind of a rough split and the kid

(59:20):
doesn't know all the story of it and everything. And
then how does she how does that affect how she
views her parents and than God if she thinks about
God and is God like dad or God like mom
or who? You know? Who take what is what personalities
he take on in that, you know? And it just
made me And so it was really fun is not

(59:43):
the right word, but if there's a better word for
fun to write, it was like I don't write songs
quickly as much anymore, but I feel like that one
was pretty quick because it was just kind of all
in there, and I love it.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
I'm so proud of that song.

Speaker 5 (59:57):
It's really fun to play because I played a lot
more like the demo obviously, and me and Destin Ransom,
who's been on the road for forever, we do it's
kind of like a cinematic version of it. He plays
very much, sort of like a soundscape thing in the background,
and it's so much fun to play, right, so much
fun to play, But it ends up being more kind

(01:00:17):
of like the album or the demo.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Yeah, of the work tape.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Yeah, for that line, it feels like you're whoever the
character of the song is is associating God with whoever
left or whatever happened.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Yeah, which I think is what we do. Yeah. Well, yeah, we.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Kind of naturally, like, if we're believers, we're going to
associate a lot of times wildly incorrect association of who
God is. Yeah, because we're putting it on our.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Hurts. Yeah, I'm trying not to use the word trauma.

Speaker 5 (01:00:54):
I love that, thank you, but I just you know,
another lyric that I really love in that that so
that both of the pres are very similar lyrics but
barely changed.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
And it goes from her.

Speaker 5 (01:01:05):
It talks about, you know, the character and the boys
at are school all seemed so deceiving and the second
time it's appealing. And I think just seeing how you know,
like how your view of the same thing can change.
Pain sets in things.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
If this song is specifically about separation in a relationship
context or a marriage, your view having gone through that,
your view does yeah change, Yeah, you will. You had
this like a preconceived notion, like when things were fine,
of who God is, who your family is, who your
spouse is, who your kids are. When you walk through it,

(01:01:45):
everything just goes yeah, and you're like, oh and now
I get to figure all this out again. Yeah midlife. Yeah,
it's not very fun. Yeah, and you have all these questions.
That's why this song is like very feeling is not
the right word to me, resonant, it resonates with me, yeah,

(01:02:06):
and that in that way. So there's like all these questions.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
And the uh.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
The waight of goodbye line isn't patient or kind, but
love is. Yeah, And you just repeat that over and over,
which I think everyone needs to hear. Yeah, we're all
kind of told goodbye in different ways. Whether your marriage
lasts or whatever happens, you're going to go through stuff.

(01:02:35):
Love is patient and kind.

Speaker 5 (01:02:36):
It's it's one of the I talk about this when
I play it live. I'm so thankful for songs like
that because, like I think, as I get older in
life gets heavier, man, I'm thankful I have someplace to
put that. Yes, And this song, as much as any
song I've ever written, was that it was like I
really struggle with this thing, and it was so such

(01:02:58):
a gift to sit and be able to sit and
get all this out in a way that I hope
is really beautiful and helpful or at least causes people
to think.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:03:09):
And it's and I mean, here we go with the
tea word, but it was really therapeutic for me, It
really was. It was like a way for me to
exercise some things.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
It's great you have a lot of songs that are hopeful,
Like I tend to write songs that are more sad
or whatever. I mean, the bulk of them, Like, it's
easier for me to tune into that and write there.

Speaker 5 (01:03:30):
Yeah, and what is for me too idly and you know,
maybe this is full circle with what you said about
the humor thing, but I think that's why I don't
ever want to cross streams is because to me, music
is just really like.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
There's plenty of dark. There's plenty of dark humor.

Speaker 5 (01:03:45):
There, there is no there's tons, but you're still trying
to make some people laugh. You're not trying to make
them cry. That's what songs.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
But you want to make them cry, and music you do.

Speaker 5 (01:03:53):
And so I think for me that's why I'm like
people always why don't write funny souths Like, I don't
go to music for that. I want music to like
make me laugh, dance, have fun cry, think right, you know,
It's like I want it to really move me in
different ways than humor does.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Sometimes I want it to be funny. It is interesting,
isn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Like when you think about like a comedy song feels
a little more campy, then yeah, like it doesn't work
for some.

Speaker 5 (01:04:19):
Reason like Randy Newman and Tom Waits. I mean, there's
probably like five people ten people in the world who
can really nail that super weird thing where it's like
really funny but also poignant or like those.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
Old country songs that are just hilarious and they work
yet they're really hooky, they're fun. Yeah yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:04:36):
But for me, I think that's why I like to
keep them, you know, to quote Offspring as we always do,
to keep them separated, because like, I don't know, that's
just not what I go to it for. So I
like to think, no, this is where I can be
serious and really have these heavy contemplative thoughts. But and
then I'll be funny doing my characters over there or whatever.
But the two of those to me just get a.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
Little like totally. You know, you just released a new
song called thinking about You. It's a cool song. Oh thanks,
It's kind of rock and roll.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Yeah. I like shadow Boxers. That's cool.

Speaker 5 (01:05:09):
Yeah, it's fun. That project is really interesting. So so
you know, for you should have known not to say it,
because now I got to tell you about it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
The how did you do that?

Speaker 5 (01:05:20):
I don't know, it's just like my eyes rolled back
for a second. That's old Jesus, I uh, you know,
probably ninety well, my last like gosh, a few records
I've written. I write most of my stuff by myself
because it's like my safe place. I really protect that,
Like I like to be able to just really disappear
into my world and write these songs.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
So you don't like co writing, No, I do. I
love it. You hate people? I just hate people.

Speaker 5 (01:05:44):
Yeah, And so white males oddly of course top of
the list, naturally, naturally because I don't like me right,
and that's a whole or how much time we got
to live out? Yeah no, but it's just kind of
where I can get as weird as I want. And
so I like not having to worry about somebody's going
Why are you not to deal with the awkward silence?

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:06:02):
Yeah, And then I do so much co writing anyway,
so that scratches that itch. But this project was really
funny because I was like, I want to release a
song a month, but I've just done the Beatles thing.
I'm writing the next one that's kind of inspired by it.
So I was like, those don't make sense for something
like this. So how what songs gout I released? And
I was like, well, you know, I've been writing with
people now for fifteen years fourteen years or something. I

(01:06:24):
have all these songs I love that just never got cut,
like I love them that like I will me and
the kids will they'll ramly go hey, play symphony and
I'm like, oh, it's like a little demo whatever, and
they'd love it. So I was like, what if I
just like splunked that catalog fifteen years fourteen years worth
of co writes, and surely there's ten songs that I
feel like I could do.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:06:44):
And so this year I've been releasing every month one
of these songs. And so in January it was a
song that what do we do in January? Oh?

Speaker 9 (01:06:52):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
A song I wrote with some people. And now I'm
forgetting what it is. Isn't that fun? That's what's fun
about life. Tell us about some people.

Speaker 5 (01:07:00):
They can really be anything, and that's what's fun about it. Right, No,
oh my god, what was the first song?

Speaker 7 (01:07:08):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Oh oh oh?

Speaker 5 (01:07:09):
Some people's kids. And so this is what I love
about this project that it's a I would never write
this song for me. It's it's really fun. It's kind
of like this, you know, kind of boppy thing wrote
with Andrew Robertson Parker Welling and you know, we were
going to pitch it to Thomas Hdt or somebody whatever.
Nobody ended up cutting it. But my kids love this song,
like wear me out about this song, right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
It's a good sign. That's a great sign. It's a
great sign. So that was one. February is a song
called Symphony that I wrote with Kelsey Ballerini.

Speaker 4 (01:07:39):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:07:39):
This month is a song with the shadow Boxers. Next
month it's Maggie Rose. But there are all these songs
that I love, but the artists just were like, man,
it just doesn't make sense with this project or whatever,
and then you know, kind of move on, you forget
about these things. But I always remember it well, and
so it's gonna be called the Songs that Got Away,
and it'll waterfall in a project. But it's been really
fun to release stuff that I'm like, oh, it gives
me a chance release it. People not go like what

(01:08:00):
are you doing because I'm like no, no, like this
is the context be.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
Like oh that's awesome. Yeah. And it's been really really fun.

Speaker 5 (01:08:06):
I like to have this kind of safe place for
stuff that I'm like, I wouldn't really put this on
a record of mine because it's just enough.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Off to the left to right or maybe even down
the middle too much.

Speaker 5 (01:08:15):
And so this whole year, each month is like a
me going back and finding something I'm like, oh, this
was cool, but they didn't record it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
Let me do it, you know. I love that. Yeah,
it's fun.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
I've always wanted to do an album or a project
called songs my friends wrote, Oh like I had nothing
to do with them.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
I just want to do it.

Speaker 5 (01:08:34):
It's made me think about it's funny. I promise I'm
not stilling that idea, but you can when I thought, wow,
we have it on camera.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
So you can call it something different. Would you just
do that? You're so creative?

Speaker 5 (01:08:45):
Well, I thought about the songs that got away, and
then I was like, it'd be fun if I could
live another you know, long time and had time to
do it. But like songs that other people wrote, songs
that you know, but just to give some context, because
I would love I mean, my friend have some of
those talented friends in the word, and they'll play me
songs that I'm like, this is a joke. Why has

(01:09:06):
nobody cut that? Or why don't you put it out
of it? Exactly like I just would love that. And
so it's funny you said that, because I was like,
that'd be man, and especially for someone who writes all
their own stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
I'll make it with you you don't have to. It's fine.

Speaker 4 (01:09:19):
Goal with this.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
I'm trying to lay in this lin just to be direct.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
I'm sorry, I'm right here. We tell you mine, Tom,
what have you got coming up? Dave Barnes and tell
us about Dadville?

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
Yeah, so we'll do Dadville first?

Speaker 5 (01:09:32):
What what?

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
It's so fun?

Speaker 5 (01:09:33):
So I do with John mclough and another insanely talented
singer songwriter. I mean, John, what a what a joke?

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
That guys? What a joke?

Speaker 5 (01:09:41):
Yeah, it's just a joke of talent. He's just these
copious amounts of giftedness. Great represents itself and laughter to
me manifests and you believe in jovial response, he he
and I.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
We have asked all that.

Speaker 5 (01:10:00):
But when we just have people want to talk about
being dads and moms like we we've sort of it's
not exclusive now at all, and it's been so much.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
We just have so much fun doing it. It's really
it's a great show. Oh thanks, it's fun.

Speaker 5 (01:10:15):
Yeah, we have so many that we're just like we
it's become a joke with us, Like we text each
other so many times after a podcast like isn't this
so fun? Is like that's such a common thing after
our podcast, and I think that is always kind of
a north star for our continuing to want to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
I have a question about podcasting. Okay, since we both
do this. Yeah, these are just mics I've told yeah,
they're not Yeah, they're not magic voice devices.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
They are pretty Actually, I take that back, they're not magic.
My question is this, do you ever?

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
I've talked to Micah about this before, and I'm like, man,
sometimes I spend an hour with somebody that I don't
know beforehand, like you, and then I feel like we're
like good friends. Yeah, oh yeah, and then I want
to text them later. No you, and and then I'm like,
find people you can text me. I thank you. But

(01:11:08):
I also don't want to be like, do you know
what I mean? Oh?

Speaker 5 (01:11:11):
I do?

Speaker 3 (01:11:12):
I do?

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
Because you spend an hour with somebody, I sort of.

Speaker 5 (01:11:15):
Don't know how to do that though. That's the good
and the bad of me is that I will overinundate you,
and that's just how I am.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
That's fine with me, but but I think that I
think it's interesting because it's almost like you spend an
hour with somebody talking about probably one of their most
passionate things. That they do ye songwriting. Yeah, it's kind
of like we're on a date. And then I just
want to keep texting it because like, oh we connected

(01:11:42):
on this and that and you made me laugh and
I kind of like you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
Dude or whatever. I know, and it's does that happen
when you interview people?

Speaker 5 (01:11:51):
And in fact, I feel bad for some of the
guests that I really feel because I will follow up
and be like, hey.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
What's up. Yeah, you know, and want to see my
new tattoo. Yeah it's a few yeah, but you.

Speaker 5 (01:12:03):
Know, thankfully, I've made like good friends from that podcast.
Like I've had people that I like communicate a decent
amount with, right, which is really fun. Is fun that
takes it to such a different level. At that point,
it becomes something more than just leads to.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
Podcasting is so weird. It's so bizarre. It's a weird
format that has taken off.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
It is.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
Yeah, everyone has one, Yeah, and I think probably everyone should.

Speaker 5 (01:12:27):
Yeah, I mean, just do it. I don't have enough
time in the day for the stuff I want to
listen to me neither. There's so much good stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
There's too much. And then you know, as far as
what's coming up, we got Dad Villas and that I'm
doing these songs onnths. That's a big Oh. Can I
tell you what I'm really excited about that I announced today?
You can't.

Speaker 5 (01:12:44):
I don't know when this is coming out. Definitely sixty
fifth episode.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
It'll be out, not the sixty sixth. It'll probably be
out next week.

Speaker 5 (01:12:54):
Okay, well we announce this today. Space Time Continuing is
weird and podcast, but yes, I'm doing this is really
really fun.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
I'm doing for me.

Speaker 5 (01:13:04):
I'm doing July eleventh and July twelfth at Third and
Lensley here in town. I'm doing Brother Bring the Sun,
which is my first record. It's its twenty first anniverse,
but we're calling it twenty it's because it's nice and
even full. Playing it in entirety on July eleventh, Oh cool.
July twelfth, it's the fifteenth year anniversary of What We
Won't When We Get, which is the guy gave me
you record. We're doing that the next night and it's entirety.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
Do you want to put on your best advertising voice
and do an ad spot and I'll.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
Play I literally will do this. I'll play this ad spot.
When is it? In July July eleventh and twelfth. Okay,
we can just keep playing it until the show. Okay,
that's that's all I want need to do. What let's
test your from there we go. You've heard him, you
love him, a voice that has peppered your memories for
two nights, July eleventh and twelfth, Dave Barnes, Please, brother,

(01:13:53):
bring the sun the eleventh and what we want when
we get on the twelfth in their entirety with a band,
come experience joy, laughter and the beauty of music. We'll
see you there. Wow. Felt great to me. I would
clap if it was so awkward, well, and your brother
would think it is the end and he would cut
it off over the class. Right, that's editing. I will

(01:14:16):
play that.

Speaker 5 (01:14:17):
So I'm excited. I've never done that, and I'm like
really really excited about it. So that's kind of you know,
add these songs a month things and that's kind of
the next thing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
I'm going to come to that one hundred percent.

Speaker 5 (01:14:29):
Sweetheart, Thanks for being here, Thanks for having me. I
want to say this, I love anybody that celebrates and
talks about music.

Speaker 2 (01:14:37):
I think it's a huge anybody.

Speaker 5 (01:14:38):
I'd mean that, I really do, because I think there's
something about today. I'm not going to We're not going
to do this. I'm not going to derail this whole thing.
But we kind of talked about this. I think in
a day where music is free, which means you experience
it really differently because you have a stake in it,
and hey, it's whatever, it is, what it is. I
just love when people will stop and say, let's like
talk and think about this, because it's a it's an

(01:15:00):
incredible thing. And so I'm really glad you do this,
and it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
Means you have me come on. That means a lot.
I think. I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:15:06):
I think that music is getting lost in the ocean
of songs that are released every day. Yeah, and you know,
it's hard for me not to ask everyone I interview,
how are you doing this? I know, how are you saying? Afloat?
How what do you think it's going to be like
in five to ten years?

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
I could talk for I have more thoughts than you
could imagine. I'm sure, I'm sure. It's a really it's
a daunting time. It's also a very uh.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
Trying to think the right word. The subject of that
is very dramatic.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
Well, and so I will say this and then we
can yeah, whatever you want to do.

Speaker 5 (01:15:54):
So my friends that aren't in the music space like
this will come up and I will hear myself and
I'm like, let me tell you, with the most annoying
sound in the world other than the dumb and dumber sound,
is hearing a musician lament how hard music is.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
Nothing is more uninteresting? Right right? No, by just start.

Speaker 5 (01:16:10):
You have a dream job, and I get that, but
I think where it lands for my friends is I go, Okay,
let me make this palatable to your job. So if
I have a friend who does like commercial real estate
and owns properties, his company goes in, they build, they
make it. You know, I'm like, imagine one morning you
wake up and in your inbox is all of your properties.
The bank whoever you're working with, says, hey, you're going

(01:16:32):
to be making instead of five thousand bucks a month
on that property, you're making five hundred bucks a month,
and that's for all of your properties. And they're like,
what do you mean. I'm like, that's the email. They're like, hey,
you're gonna make one one hundredth we can even go
that far. You're making five bucks on your properties now,
and that's for all of your properties for as long
as we know, and you have to work harder and

(01:16:54):
because of it. And that is when I see my
friends go, wait, is that what it's like? I'm like,
I can show you the math. So and they're never
I'm not. I don't say that because they chastise me.
They're wonderful, but I just want them to understand, like,
I'm not doing the thing where it's like no one
cares anymore. Right, It's like literally the math changed, yeah,
kind of overnight. And so you know, realtor friend, like,

(01:17:17):
can you imagine if someone came and said, you're going
to make you know, one fiftieth of what you used
to make, one twentieth of what you used to make
from now on, and we don't know if that'll ever change.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
What do you think is going to happen? Man?

Speaker 5 (01:17:30):
You know, I think the hope is this because I'm
a hopeful guy. I think people prioritizing fans is going
to be a big deal, Like direct consumer stuff is
my opinion for the way for what FAD's doing something
like that exactly that I think it's giving fans Because
here's the thing I'll talk about myself. If I love
a band, I'll give you my money. Yes, I will
part with it quickly and easily. If I love you,

(01:17:52):
I want to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
I love what you.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
I've spent way too much money on radiohead box.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
This is what I mean.

Speaker 5 (01:17:59):
But I think the problem nowadays is we don't as
artists really have a place for people to do that.
There's not a table where I can go, hey, I
have these things and people go, oh my gosh, I
would love to buy those things from you. And so
I think we've got to get better at finding and
not in a manipult of way, because I think people
watching this vide be like, oh, that sounds kind of
I don't mean. I mean just like, let's make great
stuff you want to get from me, just like any company, right,
And so I think like when you're giving away your

(01:18:21):
main commodity for free, then you got to get really
creative about either how to make it not for anymore,
which means a lot of things or other experiences or
interaction pieces that people can purchase. And so I think
it's a pretty but I do think I do think
there's hope in that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:37):
I really do.

Speaker 5 (01:18:38):
I think that's a really interesting thing to think about.
It's kind of like how do you go to your
people who love what you do and want to support
you and go like, hey, here's a way to.

Speaker 2 (01:18:45):
Do it and they great.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
And that's one thing I keep texting Thad Cockroll and
telling him how much his episode that he did on
this meant to me personally. I mean, we got tons
of feedback on that one. But for I've listened to
it myself, and they're hard for me to listen to
it because I'm on them, so it's weird, but I
keep listening to to get what he was talking about.

(01:19:09):
One of the things he discussed was you got to
choose who you lose. Wow, you need to focus on
your people, like who is As an artist, you can't
you know, you can't aim for everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:19:26):
You'll miss everybody.

Speaker 5 (01:19:26):
No, that's I mean, that's yeah, that's one of the
agual tenants. And I think it's true. And I think
that's what you know, Like anytime I tell people that
you know it's about thirty five hundred bucks if you
own your master for a million streams. Yeah, that is
People cannot digest that. I've watched my friends like their
eyes start bleeding and they roll back and they're like,
I don't make a million, and you know how hard

(01:19:47):
it is to get a million streams on Spotify it is.

Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
That's what I mean by working hard, you're getting less
math and having to work well.

Speaker 5 (01:19:55):
And I think too, And this is the last time
I say, because again I can, I can beat this
horse into a blue.

Speaker 2 (01:20:01):
I think.

Speaker 5 (01:20:02):
I think that's what is the hardest for me is
feeling like I came up in a time where the
energy you put into it you kind of got out
of it a little bit. I mean it wasn't exact transference,
but it was close.

Speaker 3 (01:20:11):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:20:12):
It's like you played a bunch of shows and made
really great records with really talented producers and whatever. You know,
it had a shot. And these days it's just it
doesn't work loud that you're you're you're taking the same
quality of product to the end point and then chucking
it in the Grand Canyon and praying to God it
catches a breeze and floats for a while. You just

(01:20:32):
have no agency over anymore. I think that's what breaks.
And a lot of people watch this play yeah you do,
and okay, sure, like you don't. You know, I feel
a label they have agency if you have people that
have connections to do, but your ability to make really
great music and feel like, I feel like this is
good enough that if people hear it, they'll love it.
It's just not it's not as as surefire anymore. And
so I think it's just humbling when you think of

(01:20:53):
a way forward, because you're like, oh, making great stuff
doesn't it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
Yeah, And part of the entertainment thing, like the illusion
of entertainment is that, oh, well, Dave's had a number
one song. He writes to this person, this person, this person,
this person, So it's all fine, yeah, and that's.

Speaker 5 (01:21:09):
Well, that's the humbling piece. And I think that's where
artists have really got to figure out if they're okay
sort of putting themselves out there and going like, hey, like,
you probably have this image of me, which I appreciate
because you assume best because you think I'm really good,
which is awesome. It means the world, right, But I'm
gonna let the curtain up a little here and show
you what is happening behind the scenes. And I'm oddly

(01:21:32):
comforted by when I talk to my friends about it,
brass tacks and they're like, how are you doing this.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
Yeah, and I'm like, I don't know, most of us
have other jobs. Yeah, I know, side hustling and that's fine.
Yeah but yeah, well, thank you so much. Yeah, thanks
for having me on of course is great. Thanks for
being here tomorrow. Yeah it felt great. I'd love to
I went the first couple of things, but first draft
will run through is pretty good. Yeah, it felt good.

(01:22:00):
All right, you ready to write some songs?

Speaker 4 (01:22:04):
We have another four out.

Speaker 3 (01:22:07):
Now she leaves.

Speaker 1 (01:22:11):
Work Tapes is produced by me Brandon Carswell, filming and
editing by Sean Carswell. Special thanks to Dave Barnes. Go
to Dave Barnes dot com for more information. Don't forget
to like and subscribe to Work Tapes wherever you listen
to podcasts.

Speaker 4 (01:22:29):
The lead of goodbye isn't patient a candle, but the
lead of goodbye is a pition is again noodl.

Speaker 7 (01:22:46):
The wait of goodbye, it's a pition again.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
As much as your chat

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Episode 65 - Dave Barnes - Someday This Will All Make Sense

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 65 - Dave Barnes - Someday This Will All Make Sense